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Speaker 1: We really lie to ourselves. Writers are liars, particularly writers

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Speaker 1: of fiction. I mean we're telling stories, we're making things up.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti

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Speaker 2: anxiety antidote. In covering politics for over twenty years, I've

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Speaker 2: learned one thing.

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Speaker 3: We all need a break from it.

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Speaker 2: We have become obsessed with politics in a way I

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Speaker 2: don't think we have been before. We're like centering our

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Speaker 2: lives around politics. We're making it our entire identities. We're

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Speaker 2: getting wrapped up in the machinations at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania

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Speaker 2: Avenue instead of what's going on in our local communities.

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Speaker 2: And I like to escape politics into the world of Bravo.

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Speaker 2: As many of you may know, some of you like

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Speaker 2: to escape into.

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Speaker 3: A world that actually looks very similar to our.

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Speaker 2: Own, which is fascinating to me. My next guest provides

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Speaker 2: just that escape for millions and millions of readers all

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Speaker 2: over the world with books that are in some case

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Speaker 2: says rip from the headlines or in some ways eerily

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Speaker 2: predicting them.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Off the Cup, Brad Thor.

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Speaker 1: Hey see, it's great to be here, and I need

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Speaker 1: you to make me a promise up front.

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Speaker 4: Please that we're going to.

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Speaker 1: Save five minutes for the end to talk about Bravo,

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Speaker 1: because I have a little one degree of separation from

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Speaker 1: one of their hit shows that I watch all the time.

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Speaker 1: So we'll have to I haven't been lucky enough to

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Speaker 1: sit there with the Andy and the clubhouse like you

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Speaker 1: have so many times. But I got a little connection.

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Speaker 1: Actually I have two connections, am I.

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Speaker 3: Guys on the floor, my jaw is on.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll save it. We'll save it for the end.

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Speaker 1: That'll be the big I've got two connections to two shows,

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Speaker 1: so we'll save that for the end, or unless you

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Speaker 1: want to start out with it.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait till the end. Let's do it. I

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Speaker 3: can't wait. There's no way I have an hour. I

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Speaker 3: can't wait. So go tell me everything.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Well we'll have dessert first, to a

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Speaker 1: leader vegetables later.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, first of all, one of my dear friends from

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Speaker 1: growing up, she was originally Meredith Rosenberg, is one of

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Speaker 1: the stars of the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City

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Speaker 1: and so mayor sister Myra dear friends of mine from Chicago.

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Speaker 1: So that's one. Yeah, Meredith Marks, Meredith Mars Listen she

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Speaker 1: is a wonderful human being. She's a terrific, super smart.

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Speaker 1: Their family's wonderful, and I.

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Speaker 4: Grew up with them in Chicago.

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Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with her.

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Speaker 1: So that's number one. And the number two, I am

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Speaker 1: a big fan of Below Decks. Okay.

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Speaker 4: And and I have.

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Speaker 1: A friend Erica Rich and she and her husband do

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Speaker 1: the casting for Below Decks. And so Erica is a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine from high school in Chicago. So there's

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Speaker 1: two Bravo connections that run through my life. And shot,

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Speaker 1: well we have.

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Speaker 3: To do watch what Happens live together.

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Speaker 4: Oh that'd be fun. I would enjoy that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that'd be really fun. Okay, I'll try to

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Speaker 3: make it happen. I love good stories. I'm good glad.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad I brought up Bravo because.

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Speaker 1: I didn't need to.

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Speaker 3: But perfect correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: Did we first cross paths, like at the while I

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Speaker 2: was at The Blaze and you were doing The Blaze?

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Speaker 1: Yes, so you and I were in the same makeup room.

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Speaker 4: This is when there.

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Speaker 1: Was a New York studio for The Blaze and I

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Speaker 1: had to go there to do like a Will cow

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Speaker 1: thing or something like that, and I had been watching

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Speaker 1: you on TV. I've never met you, and I walked

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Speaker 1: into the makeup room and started chatting with you. You

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Speaker 1: were super nice and super engaging and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. But that was the first time we met.

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Speaker 1: That's years and years ago in New York.

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Speaker 3: That was years and years ago.

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Speaker 2: And I worked so the Blaze was Glenn Beck's startup

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Speaker 2: and I worked there for a short time when I

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Speaker 2: was younger. I know you did a lot of appearances there,

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Speaker 2: a man, was that a different time.

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Speaker 4: I got to tell you, it.

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Speaker 1: Is so so different when I look back at kind

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Speaker 1: of the at the places that I was and had

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Speaker 1: a very high profile that I'm no longer at the Blazze, Fox,

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Speaker 1: things like that, where I didn't change, just the landscape

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Speaker 1: change you are.

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Speaker 4: I'm still the same person.

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Speaker 3: Me and you, Me and you. I have not changed.

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Speaker 2: If I have changed around me and we don't get

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Speaker 2: like super political here, because like I said, this is

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Speaker 2: a break from that. But looking back at where you

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Speaker 2: and I were, could you have predicted I mean, I'm

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Speaker 2: an outcast.

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Speaker 1: Now, oh so, and listen, it's it's no question. It's

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Speaker 1: hurt me as far as television appearances, book sales, I

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Speaker 1: don't doubt any of that. That by kind of maintaining

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Speaker 1: my integrity and what I believe in, in not being

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Speaker 1: a weather vane, just blowing where it's easiest and blowing

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Speaker 1: where the trolls push you and things like that. It's

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Speaker 1: cost me, but I look in the mirror every day

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Speaker 1: and I'm happy with what I see.

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Speaker 4: So there you go.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I think you know when I talk about exactly,

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Speaker 1: and that's part of mental health, right, it's yes. I

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Speaker 1: think when you are grounded in who you are, that

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Speaker 1: helps you when you can turn out everything and not

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Speaker 1: care about outside opinions. Listen, it's I'm fifty five now,

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Speaker 1: so it's one of the blessings of getting older is

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Speaker 1: not caring a what people think. But I also think

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Speaker 1: it is one of the healthiest paths you can trod

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Speaker 1: in life. Tread in life is to trod would suggest

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Speaker 1: I'm done treading, Sorry, wrong tends there. It's one of

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Speaker 1: the healthiest paths you can tread in life. Is being

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Speaker 1: true to yourself and what you believe. Yes, regardless of

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Speaker 1: what happens. And you would have been easy to fold

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Speaker 1: and to go follow the mobs, but that's not where

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Speaker 1: I am and that's not who I am. And that's

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Speaker 1: why friendships like the one that you and I have

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Speaker 1: is even more valuable to me because I'm not the

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Speaker 1: only one who did the right thing. So when I

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Speaker 1: see you on TV, whether if I'm joking and it's

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Speaker 1: either in the clubhouse with Andy, or I'm watching you

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Speaker 1: on CNN, or I'm catching you on the web, I'm

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Speaker 1: just I can look at you and I've pointed you

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Speaker 1: out to my kids, and I've said to my kids,

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Speaker 1: she's one of the good ones.

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Speaker 4: She stands up for what she believes in.

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Speaker 1: So just in my own house, you have been singled

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Speaker 1: out as somebody who's doing the right thing. So I

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Speaker 1: appreciate your example that you've helped set for my kids.

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Speaker 3: So thankssh wow, thank you. And I feel the same way.

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Speaker 2: There's a handful of folks who I can look at

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Speaker 2: and say, oh, I just admire them for sticking to

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Speaker 2: who they are and not going where the power went

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Speaker 2: and the crowds went. I mean, you are one of

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Speaker 2: the one of the rare, one of the few. And

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Speaker 2: I know you became a political independent for all intents

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Speaker 2: and poises, and I did two because the conservatism has

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Speaker 2: has left the party. But your books are beloved by

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Speaker 2: Republican readers, and you sort of alluded to this. I

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Speaker 2: think has politics affected your relationship with readers?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I think so. My first two big pieces of fan

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Speaker 1: mail when I started my career, one came from a

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Speaker 1: big politician on the right, New Gingrich, and the other

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Speaker 1: came from one on the left, a cabinet member from

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Speaker 1: the Carter administration, Bert Lance. And so I've always counted

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Speaker 1: people on both sides of the aisle as as readers.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that because I didn't get behind

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Speaker 1: a particular candidate that the people and I was not

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Speaker 1: and I was. My dad's a United States Marine. He's

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Speaker 1: no longer active, but once a marine, always a marine.

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Speaker 1: And we always believe the character is destiny. And if

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't vote for somebody for president of the country

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Speaker 1: who you wouldn't hire to babysit your kids, walk your dog,

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Speaker 1: or run your business. So that's kind of where that's

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Speaker 1: kind of where I came down on it. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that that probably alienated some people.

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Speaker 4: I know it did.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was just even friendships in my own life,

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Speaker 1: people that couldn't believe that after years of voting a

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Speaker 1: certain way, that I wouldn't vote that way anymore. And

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Speaker 1: I said, I put country over party, So I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be that much of a tribal partisan that

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Speaker 1: that's what dictates all my decisions, because at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, this is my dad the Marine talking.

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Speaker 1: We're stewards of our republic. We don't own America. We're

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Speaker 1: merely caretakers, and it's incumbent upon us to hand a stronger, free,

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Speaker 1: or more equitable, more prosperous nation to the next generation

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Speaker 1: that was handed to us. I always see myself as

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Speaker 1: an American citizen before I see myself as a partisan,

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Speaker 1: and so I act and make my decisions accordingly.

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Speaker 2: I love that the new book is Shadow of Doubt,

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Speaker 2: and we'll talk about it, but first.

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Speaker 3: Talk about Black Stallion m.

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Speaker 1: My favorite book series when I was a kid. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I loved these books.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what it was about the books. I

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Speaker 4: saw the movie, which.

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Speaker 1: Was fantastic when I was a kid, and there was

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Speaker 1: something about the freedom in those books. Living downtown Chicago,

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Speaker 1: it's funny we had an old National Guard armory in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and they would actually have polo matches on Friday nights there,

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Speaker 1: and people kept horses at the National Guard Armory, and

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Speaker 1: I was able to get a job there when I

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Speaker 1: was later in grade school, so probably about twelve thirteen

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Speaker 1: years old, and I was able to be what's called

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Speaker 1: a hot walker, which is you walk the horses between

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Speaker 1: the chuckers between the periods to cool them off. The

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Speaker 1: players switch up their polo ponies during the games and

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Speaker 1: they need somebody to just walk the horses around and

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Speaker 1: pull them off.

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Speaker 4: And I was in heaven.

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Speaker 1: I love that, being an inner city kid who only

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Speaker 1: got to ride horses during summers at summer camp or

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Speaker 1: up in my parents' cottage at the stables in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: So I love those books. But there was something about

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Speaker 1: the freedom that those books represented to me that was

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Speaker 1: always appealing. So those were some of the first books

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Speaker 1: that I read series wise and fell in love with.

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Speaker 2: And what was going on in your life at the time, Well.

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Speaker 1: I had started. I think my parents split up when

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Speaker 1: I was eight years old, so I think I probably

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Speaker 1: threw myself more into books at that time than anything else.

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Speaker 1: And I think books are a very healthy place, particularly

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Speaker 1: for kids to escape to.

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Speaker 4: And I wish it was more.

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Speaker 1: There weren't that many escapes if you think about it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't have one hundred TV channels, there

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Speaker 1: was no internet, there was no scrolling. So my parents

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Speaker 1: were always really good about it. If you want books,

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Speaker 1: we'll get you books. And we used to have these

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Speaker 1: Scholastic book club the little paper newsletter with a little

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Speaker 1: strip on the back where you'd write out what you

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Speaker 1: wanted and you'd bring in your cash and your coins

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Speaker 1: to pay for the books. And it was always so

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Speaker 1: exciting when those Scholastic books showed up. So I think

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Speaker 1: reading was probably an escape for me at at a

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Speaker 1: difficult time in my childhood because of the diurse wasn't

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Speaker 1: great between my parents, so it kind of allowed me

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Speaker 1: to to not think about it, to escape into a

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Speaker 1: different world. And I'm very thankful that those books were there.

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Speaker 3: Did you write as a child as well?

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Speaker 4: I did. I did a lot of writing.

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Speaker 1: I always wrote plays and wrote short stories and things

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Speaker 1: like that. So I was always always a writer, but

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Speaker 1: my mom had been. It's funny I only learned this

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Speaker 1: in the last year where my mom lived.

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Speaker 4: She lived on the Upper East Side.

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Speaker 1: She was a flight attendant for twa in the nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixties and got to see the world with twa My

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Speaker 1: dad had been, like I said, a United States Marine.

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Speaker 1: You got to see the world with the Marine Corps.

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Speaker 1: And it was the arts in our family were something

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Speaker 1: to make you better round it.

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Speaker 4: They were not a career path.

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Speaker 1: My dad had always hoped that I would go into

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Speaker 1: the family business. My dad was involved with commercial real estate,

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Speaker 1: building office buildings, and you always hope.

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Speaker 4: My brother and I would take over his business.

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Speaker 1: So I had never considered the arts as a career

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Speaker 1: path until I was on my honeymoon and my wife

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Speaker 1: asked me, what would you regret on your deathbed never

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Speaker 1: having done? And I said writing a book and getting

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Speaker 1: it published, And that's what really kicked it off. But

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Speaker 1: that wasn't until my late twenties.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny because I wrote a lot as

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Speaker 2: a child as well. I think I wrote my first

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Speaker 2: quote unquote novel at seven. It was like six pages,

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Speaker 2: but it almost felt I loved writing and it was

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Speaker 2: an outlet for me too, because I had some instability

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Speaker 2: in my childhood as well. But it always felt like

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Speaker 2: it was I guess, i'd say, too easy to be

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Speaker 2: a career and so I ran from writing as a

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Speaker 2: career for a long time too, and you know, tried

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Speaker 2: to pursue something else for us. But I don't know why,

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Speaker 2: because you know, my parents didn't care kind of what

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Speaker 2: I did, as long as I was happy. But there's

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Speaker 2: something about it that I think you're just not ready

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Speaker 2: for until you are. And I wasn't ready for it

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Speaker 2: until I finally got to college and worked at the

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Speaker 2: newspaper and thought, oh, there's nothing better than this. There

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Speaker 2: is nothing better than this. But I just think it's

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Speaker 2: it's interesting that both you and I loved it so

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Speaker 2: much and didn't really embrace it until we were like adults.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you to lie down on the

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Speaker 1: couch here for a few minutes, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about this. I think you used a great term, Essy,

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Speaker 1: which is you ran from it, because I ran as well.

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Speaker 1: And when I graduated college, I had worked in LA

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Speaker 1: leasing apartments and had saved a bunch of money, and

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Speaker 1: I had decided that I was going to I had

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Speaker 1: done a semester broad in Paris.

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Speaker 4: I had friends who had an extra bedroom.

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Speaker 1: They invited me after I graduated to come back because

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Speaker 1: I threatened I was going to try my hand at writing,

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Speaker 1: and so I went back over and I started writing,

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Speaker 1: and I had I got a couple chapters into a book,

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Speaker 1: and I had this voice in the back of my

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Speaker 1: head saying, you know, what if the book's no good?

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Speaker 1: What if you don't finish the book, or what if

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Speaker 1: you do finish it and it's so bad you can't

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Speaker 1: find a publisher. This voice just went on and on

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Speaker 1: and on. In growing up, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: remember the PSAs that you used to be on TV

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Speaker 1: all the time when we were growing up, and it

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Speaker 1: was for the United Negro College Fund, and it said

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Speaker 1: a mind is a terrible thing to waste. And I

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Speaker 1: personally shortened that for my own catchphrase, which is a

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Speaker 1: mind is a terrible thing period because my mind kept

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Speaker 1: trying to talk me out of writing a book, and

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Speaker 1: I succumbed to that voice, and I shipped my laptop

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Speaker 1: back home, and I traveled with all this money that

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Speaker 1: all this money with the money wasn't a lot, but

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Speaker 1: traveled on the cheap in Europe with the money that

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Speaker 1: I had saved up working in college. And I think

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Speaker 1: that which you're most destined to do in life you're

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Speaker 1: often the most afraid of. And I succumbed to the

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Speaker 1: fear for the longest time until fast forward to my honeymoon,

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Speaker 1: and I told my wife that my deepest desire was

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Speaker 1: to write a book. And she said, fine, when we

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Speaker 1: get home, you need to start spending two hours a day,

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Speaker 1: every day protected time making that happen. So here I

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Speaker 1: am newlywed my husband, I can't tell my wife that

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Speaker 1: I just I don't have the courage.

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Speaker 4: I'm too afraid of failure to write the book.

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Speaker 1: So I had that. I had that not wanting to

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Speaker 1: admit my fear to my wife. That really drove me

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Speaker 1: into writing the book and I.

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Speaker 4: Actually got it done.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot that goes into writing, you know, fiction

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Speaker 2: or nonfiction. There's a lot that goes into it. What's

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Speaker 2: your favorite part of it? What's the part of writing

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Speaker 2: that you left the check.

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Speaker 4: Cashing the check?

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Speaker 1: If I'm being honest of no, you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: I like it because I'm a perfectionist. I'm a very

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Speaker 1: type a personality of perfectionist. And I think that being

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Speaker 1: a perfectionist, perfectionists are plagued probably with writer's block more

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Speaker 1: than anybody else because writer's block is a worry that

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Speaker 1: you're not putting the words on paper as well as

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Speaker 1: they could be placed on the paper. Right, there's that

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Speaker 1: old saying that you can't edit what hasn't been written,

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Speaker 1: so you really need to do You have to sit

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Speaker 1: down and see the pants to seat a chair, and

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Speaker 1: you have to open the tap because the water doesn't

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Speaker 1: flow if the TAP's not open. But you know, I'll

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Speaker 1: finish a book and that'll feel good, and I'll give

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Speaker 1: it to my wife and she'll read it. She's like,

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Speaker 1: that's good. My agent and editor will read it and

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Speaker 1: be like, wow, you know, really really good. And I

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Speaker 1: don't believe them. I don't believe them until because they

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Speaker 1: all have a vested interest in the process. I know

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Speaker 1: they would tell me if something was wrong with the book,

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Speaker 1: but it's not until it gets out into the wild

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Speaker 1: and I start hearing from the critics and ultimately the people.

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Speaker 4: I work for the.

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Speaker 1: Readers, because I don't work for Simon and Schuster. I

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Speaker 1: work for the readers, and I have a job as

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Speaker 1: long as the readers are willing to buy my books,

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Speaker 1: so they're my ultimate boss. So for me, there's a

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Speaker 1: ton of anxiety until I start hearing from them what

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Speaker 1: they think, and then I can relax and enjoy a

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Speaker 1: little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can so relate to that too. You know,

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Speaker 2: half of my life is on TV. But but the

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Speaker 2: other half is writing. And I write for TV too.

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Speaker 2: But when people ask like, what is it? What do

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Speaker 2: you like about writing so much? It's the intentionality when

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Speaker 2: I'm on TV, especially when it's live. You know, I

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Speaker 2: like to think that I've thought out what I'm going

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Speaker 2: to say. Well, but you know, things come out the writing.

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Speaker 2: I can be intentional, deliberate, I can pick the perfect words.

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Speaker 3: It's the perfectionist in me too.

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Speaker 2: That I have more control. I have more control. That's

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Speaker 2: what it comes down to, and I love that part

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Speaker 2: of it too. I also like for me, maybe because

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Speaker 2: I do opinion and nonfiction, it's a puzzle. I love

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00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 2: putting words together like a puzzle, and putting an argument

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Speaker 2: together like a puzzle.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It just really turns me on.

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Speaker 1: Really, I hear you, it's and it is. It is

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Speaker 1: a different world I've got to imagine. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: done I watch you on CNN do panels, and you

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Speaker 1: can only come in armed with a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: research it's funny since we're kind of talking TV a

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Speaker 1: little bit, we're talking mental health. I want to share

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Speaker 1: something with you that maybe you can relate to. When

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Speaker 1: I started doing TV, and I would do these remote

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Speaker 1: hits from like CNN studio in Chicago at the old

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Speaker 1: Chicago Tribune building, there was a studio in there, and

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Speaker 1: I would cram, like cramming for a test. I would

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Speaker 1: put so much information in my head. I would do

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Speaker 1: to three to five minute hit and it'd be done,

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Speaker 1: and the producer would say, in my year, oh you

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Speaker 1: were fantastic, we can't wait to have you back.

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Speaker 4: And I would feel like if I.

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Speaker 1: Didn't regurgitate every single thing I have prepared to say

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Speaker 1: during the failure, it was a failure. It was an

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Speaker 1: absolute failure. It took me years to finally get comfortable

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Speaker 1: with my performance on TV because I felt I was

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Speaker 1: under delivering, that I had not done my job because

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Speaker 1: I didn't spit back up everything I'd memorized.

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Speaker 3: I used to do what I used to do when

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Speaker 3: I was coming up in TV.

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Speaker 2: I'd write out like a column, like I would write

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Speaker 2: a column about what I wanted to say, and I

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Speaker 2: truly thought in my mind like I can, I can

393
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Speaker 2: remember and deliver this entire six hundred word column. Of

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Speaker 2: course you cannot. You don't have the time. You're human,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to happen. Someone's gonna interrupt you. There's

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Speaker 2: all the things. And when I finally let that go

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Speaker 2: mm hmm, it allowed me to just be present in

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Speaker 2: the moment. And then you rely on your institutional knowledge

399
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Speaker 2: and just the things you've you've known forever and the

400
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Speaker 2: things that you're still learning. So it's such I can

401
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,280
Speaker 2: completely relate. And as a writer, I think every writer

402
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 2: goes through that kind of exercise when they first start

403
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Speaker 2: doing TV because it's.

404
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Speaker 3: A very different muscle, totally different.

405
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Speaker 2: I I'm writing a book now. It's very different from

406
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Speaker 2: my political books in the past. It's it's about my

407
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Speaker 2: mental health and it's about it's about me, and I

408
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Speaker 2: need your advice because.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's really really hard.

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Speaker 2: The material is hard, and it's not it's not a

411
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Speaker 2: writer's block, like I don't know what to write next.

412
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Speaker 2: It's that sometimes when I'm feeling good, I want to

413
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Speaker 2: write about my mental health. I don't want to live

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Speaker 2: in that space, but I have to. I need to

415
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 2: get through this book. Do you have any tips for

416
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Speaker 2: kind of forcing yourself to the page where you don't

417
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Speaker 2: feel like this is not going.

418
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Speaker 3: To be productive right now.

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Speaker 2: You know, I need I need to be I need

420
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Speaker 2: to be good at this, but I also need to

421
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Speaker 2: just do it.

422
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Speaker 3: I need to just get it done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think probably the best piece of writing advice

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Speaker 1: I ever found was to give yourself permission to write

425
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Speaker 1: a crappy first draft, because at the bottom of everything,

426
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Speaker 1: I think is this fear of well, if I'm not

427
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 1: in the mood right now, the words aren't going to

428
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: come out correctly, so on and so forth. There's always

429
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Speaker 1: an excuse for why you can't write right. It's amazing writers,

430
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Speaker 1: particularly under deadline, will have the leanus closets, cleanest garage,

431
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 1: clean kids. Everything is going to get productive, exactly. It is.

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Speaker 1: It is the way that listen, we really lie to ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Writers are liars, particularly writers of fiction. I mean, we're

434
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Speaker 1: telling stories, we're making things up. But I think, see,

435
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Speaker 1: probably the best piece of advice I could give you

436
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 1: is to give yourself permission to write a crappy first draft.

437
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: You and I both know you're not a crappy writer,

438
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Speaker 1: but there's something about saying I give myself permission to

439
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: have a whatever word you want to use, crummy, jung xy, whatever.

440
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 1: You give yourself that permission, and what it does is

441
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: it removes the roadblocks. It removes the psychological blocks that

442
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: are stopping you from writing. Whether you're it's that perfectionism

443
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: that's raising its ugly head or if it's fear that

444
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,959
Speaker 1: you don't want to go to the dark side, at

445
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: this point, you're actually doing well you don't want to be.

446
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 1: Who was it that referred to their depression as being

447
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 1: a big black dog?

448
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 2: A famous writer, writer and illustrator, Matthew Johnstone.

449
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: That's the one. I think.

450
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 2: I think he actually did, Overcoming the black dog of depression.

451
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 1: Yes, so I think I think Churchill may have been

452
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: the perfon coin that, yeah, the originator of that term,

453
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: but then Matthew had done a book talking about it. Yes,

454
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 1: so I can only imagine that writing about your own

455
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: mental health is frightening. Is you have to lay yourself bear,

456
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: your entire soul.

457
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 4: You're laying bare for this.

458
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 1: So there's got to be times where you don't want

459
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: to go there for multiple reasons. But I think if

460
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: you give your try, giving yourself permission to write a

461
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 1: crummey first draft, because when you do that, when you

462
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 1: remove I'm gonna use air quotes here, the professionalism from it.

463
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 1: I want this to be good, and I really want to.

464
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm feeling good now, and if I write about the

465
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: bad stuff now, I might not be truly tapping into

466
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: how I feel. Yes, that may be a dodge. That

467
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 1: may be a dodge that you're saying to yourself, the

468
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: book is not going to be any good unless I'm

469
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 1: totally it's you know, it's like saying I wanted to

470
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: write about this three day bender that I was on

471
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: in college, and I gotta get drunk for three days.

472
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: I mean, that's silly, right, but that's the way again.

473
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: Don't forget my slogan, the mind is a terrible thing.

474
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 3: Totally advice, I hope.

475
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 4: So I hope it works for you.

476
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 2: So how does Scott Harvath come to be? How do

477
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 2: you invent this character?

478
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: So it's interesting. I never ever intended to write a

479
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: series protagonist. I was going to be one and done.

480
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: You cannot be an even halfway decent writer without being

481
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: a voracious reader. And so I quickly moved out of

482
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: those Black Stallion books to stealing. My mom read thrillers

483
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: and my dad read thrillers, and when they would lay

484
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: one down that they had completed, I grab it. So

485
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: I'm very young reading Lecree, reading Clancy, reading Freddie Forsyth,

486
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: and I loved these books. So I had had I

487
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: was doing. I was on television before I became an author.

488
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: I had a travel show on public television, and I

489
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: was the producer.

490
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 4: Writer, and host.

491
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: That's what happened after I gave up on writing a novel.

492
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: I took that money from college. I traveled and I went, wow,

493
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: there's all these young kids with backpacks. I wasn't familiar

494
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: with this idea of get a rail pass, see Europe

495
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And the only person on television

496
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: at that time doing budget travel was this guy, Rick Steves.

497
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: He's still on now. I love Yeah. I do too,

498
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: but his audience was very, very much older than I

499
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: was at the Yeah.

500
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 4: So I wanted to do a show for eighteen to thirty.

501
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: Four year olds because I thought travel made me a

502
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: better person, made me a better American, maybe a better person.

503
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 4: I got to see other ways of living, other ways of.

504
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: You know, eat dinner at ten o'clock in Spain instead

505
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: of six o'clock. Yeah, it was just very broadening that experience.

506
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: So I did a show in Lucern, Switzerland, where I

507
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: saw this incredible monument in Switzerland that Mark Twain called

508
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: the most moving piece of rock in the world, this

509
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: Dying Lion, and I said, if I ever write a book,

510
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to call it The Lions of Lucerne. I

511
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: don't know how I'm gonna get Switzerland into the book,

512
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: but that's what it's going to be. And so my

513
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: wife asked me on our honeymoon, what would your gun

514
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: on your death d Never having done, I said, you know,

515
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: I want to write a book and get it published.

516
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: She said, a right, two hours is protect the time

517
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: every day. So now I had I had said I'm

518
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 1: going to do it. I'd had the title floating around

519
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: in my head since I'd done my travel show episode

520
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: in Lucerne. And we shared an overnight train ride in

521
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: from Munich to Amsterdam with a brother and sister from Atlanta, Georgia.

522
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: They were fans of my TV show. They recognized me

523
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: when we got into the compartment with them and we

524
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: chatted all night. In the next day, the sister said, hey,

525
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: are you going to go back to the States after

526
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: your honeymoon and make more television episodes. I said, actually,

527
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: I'm going to be working on a novel, and she said,

528
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. And when we got off at the

529
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: platform and went to trade contact information, she gave me

530
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: your business card and said, I work at Simon and Schuster,

531
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: and if you write that novel, I want to read

532
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: it before somebody else to see if we can help

533
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: you get it at Simon and Schuster. So I was

534
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: all excited, and it was a raiders dream, every writer's dream.

535
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: And the cherry on top for me was it was

536
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 1: raining at the train station in Amsterdam and we couldn't

537
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: get a cab. We had to walk to our hotel,

538
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: Tricia and I. We got to the hotel and the

539
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: manager said, I am so sorry mister and missus Thor.

540
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: Your room is not ready yet, but let us give

541
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: you a couple of umbrellas. There's a great cafe around

542
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: the corner. Go have a cup of coffee a sandwich.

543
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: Come back.

544
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 4: I'll be ready now.

545
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: Little did I know they were putting flowers in there

546
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: and chocolates for us and getting it up because they

547
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: knew it was a honeymoon situation.

548
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 4: Very sweet.

549
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: But I'm the cynical Chicagoan, so I'm convinced his rooms

550
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: are never ready on time. And that cafe around the

551
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: corner is his brother in law's cafe, and he says

552
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: how he shuffles business over to his brother in law. Anyway,

553
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: we go to the cafe, we sit down in The

554
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: famous American Western writer Louis Lamore was known for always

555
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: having a paperback in his back pocket, so if he

556
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: was waiting online at the grocery store, the post office,

557
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: he'd take out up paperback and start reading.

558
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 4: Trish was the same way.

559
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: She always had a paper bag in her paper back

560
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: in her bag, yea, so she got hers out, started reading.

561
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything, and I'm looking around this cafe

562
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: and there used to be this English language newspaper called

563
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: the International Herald Tribune that you can get in overseas,

564
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: and I grabbed it, picked it up, and I was flipping.

565
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 4: Through, flipping through, and I found this.

566
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: Little intelligence briefing. It was only about three inches. It

567
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: was a three inch high column, and it was all

568
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: about a Swiss intelligence officer who had embezzled all this

569
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: money from the Swiss government. To train a shadow militia

570
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: high in the Alps with high tech weapons from his

571
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: own private arsenal, and I said, that's it.

572
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 4: Those are the Lions of Lucerne.

573
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to do my whole I'm going to do

574
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: my whole book around this, and that's that's where it

575
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: came from.

576
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 4: In the character.

577
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: Back to your question, Scott Harvath, I was looking for

578
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: a name Scott with one T. My brother is Scott

579
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: with one T, because my mom didn't like the idea

580
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: of seeing SEO T T thho R three t's in

581
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: a row. So I eventually had to give Scott my

582
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: fictional character, the middle name of Thomas and explain his

583
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: mother didn't want to see Scott Thomas. And then Harved

584
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: is a friend of ours who works for the Department

585
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: of Justice processing FAISO warrants, and I thought it was

586
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: a really cool name I had not seen in books before.

587
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: And then the character was really kind of a mishmash

588
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: of people that I knew in the espionage world. In

589
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: the special Operations community, there's a lot of shared experiences

590
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: that they have, particularly difficulty being able to commit in

591
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: a romantic relationship or difficulties at home because they're constantly

592
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: going overseas to do some of the nation's most dangerous business.

593
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: So that's kind of who Harvath is. And I also

594
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: say that he's a little bit my alter ego, the

595
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: same way I'm sure Clancy was for Jack Ryan and

596
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: James Colland was for Ian Fleming.

597
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

598
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 2: So, and you've basically written, not basically, you have written

599
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: a book a year since two thousand and two, since

600
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: the lines of this concern.

601
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: And one year I did two books in one year

602
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: because I did a spin off about an all female

603
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 1: Delta Force unit. So I'm currently as we're recording this,

604
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: I am writing my twenty fifth novel, twenty fourth in

605
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: the Scott Harbath series. It's hard, It's hard. How do

606
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: you exactly?

607
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: And this is coming from someone who loves to write.

608
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: I love to write. How do you churn out?

609
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 5: How?

610
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 2: Is this a matter of discipline? Is this a matter

611
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: of necessity? Like you have to do it how straight teeth?

612
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, no, I mean it is.

613
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 4: I mean it is my job. It is.

614
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: It is very difficult. It's only gotten more difficult. You

615
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: would think doing the same thing every year. You know,

616
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: if you're only twisting a wrench on widget number four

617
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: that you become the best wrench twister, and it would

618
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: just be you know, old hat.

619
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 4: It does not get easier.

620
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: There is no formula. I pride myself because I'm such

621
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: a voracious consumer of news and such a creative person

622
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: that sometimes I get very lucky and I see over

623
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: the horizon.

624
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 4: And I can beat the headlines.

625
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: And that's one of the things people say about my

626
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: books as well. Four. If you want to know what's

627
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: going to happen tomorrow, read a brad Thorpe book today.

628
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: But the Simpsons, oh well, I got to ask that question.

629
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: I was just at a writing conference and they said,

630
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: it's better you are the Simpsons at predicting the future,

631
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: and I said, well, Simpsons have been doing it longer

632
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: than I have, so the Simpsons are definitely better. But

633
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: what's got it is very difficult, and it's only gotten

634
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: more difficult in that the publisher's coming to me sooner

635
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: and sooner. It's like Christmas being in the stores as

636
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: soon as fourth of July is over. So I'll come

637
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: out with the book in the summer, and before summer's

638
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: even over, they're like, what's next year's book? You know

639
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: you barely get time to kind of toy with different

640
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: ideas and all that stuff. But it is, as I

641
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: said earlier, I used the expression seat the pants to

642
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: sea to chair, which is not mine. I forget whether

643
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: that's Dorothy Parker.

644
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 4: Who said that, but it really is. It is discipline.

645
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 1: You have to sit down, you have to force yourself,

646
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: you have to at the world at some point. I

647
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: actually do have to take like, not only unplug the

648
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: router in my office, but actually take it out of

649
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: my office so I can't go plug it back in.

650
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: I'll do I'll do the hats because it's just I

651
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: have to. I can't. I'll convince myself that what's happening

652
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: out in the bigger world is so important that I

653
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: need to be tuned into it that if I'm not

654
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: taking I don't have the job that you have where

655
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: I've got to be. You know, I'm not punching it

656
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: up with Scott Jennings, you know on a regular basis,

657
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: you know where you need to constantly be prepared and

658
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: well armed when you go in there. But I've got

659
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: to imagine it's difficult for you. It's it's difficult for

660
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: me to turn it off because I am a news junkie.

661
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm a geopolitics junkie, and I do write international thrillers

662
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: that involve diplomats and spies and foreign governments and stuff

663
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: like that. So I like to be but I have

664
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: to set a limit. I have to say, Okay, you

665
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: can check in. You know, I can have my cup

666
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: of coffee in the morning, and by the time that

667
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: first cup of coffee's done, the computer has to you know, yeah,

668
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: the web browser's got to be shut down sort of thing.

669
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 3: But it is, I mean that's good for your mental

670
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: health too, it really is. I mean, there is a

671
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: thing that's too much news, yes.

672
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: Oh and it's never ending too, I mean the particularly

673
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: I never was a big YouTube guy, but now I've

674
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: got so many people that I enjoy watching, you know,

675
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, well, I'm not gonna listen names,

676
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: but it's just there's a lot of There's one particular

677
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: geo political strategy so I love named Peter Zaien, and.

678
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 4: Huh he's just very charming.

679
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: He's so smart. He worked with a buddy of mine

680
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: and he does these little six minute things on YouTube

681
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: and they're like potato chips for me, because it's like, oh,

682
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: my gosh, that makes so much sense. And my last book,

683
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: Shadow of Doubt, he had a view of Russia and

684
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: why Russia is doing what it's doing right now. That's geographics.

685
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: It's a geographical situation meets demographics. I didn't realize that

686
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: Russia's only been invaded through one of nine portals into Russia,

687
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: and that at the end of World War Two Russia

688
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: controlled all of them. But then when the Soviet Union

689
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: broke up, they lost seven out of the nine. And

690
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: this is the last generation that Russia will be able

691
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: to field their army, that they have enough fighting men

692
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: to field an army to go and retake those portals.

693
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: So Putin had no choice but to act now. And

694
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: it was it played so well into the book, and

695
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: so that kind of stuff. I get to eat my

696
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: potato chips and count it as work at the same time, right,

697
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is. It is really tough to quiet

698
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: the world, to shut everything out if you will to write,

699
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: and you know that you've got a you can't get

700
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: it done if you don't kind of put yourself in

701
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: that cone of silence.

702
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: Yes, my husband is obsessed, obsessed with your books.

703
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: You're his favorite author, for sure.

704
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: Not even close, because it's got everything he loves. It's

705
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: got military, spy stuff, world events, politics.

706
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 3: Who are you writing for?

707
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 2: And don't say everybody, because no commissures will tell you

708
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: that's not You know.

709
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: That, but you don't.

710
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: The audience is everyone. So I know there's a reader

711
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: you have in mind, and that doesn't mean that they're

712
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: the only people I have, like your baby, But who

713
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: do you write for?

714
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: I have a very handsome, very intelligent reader mind. I

715
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: write it for myself.

716
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 4: I write the kind of books that I would want to.

717
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: So I have a friend who is a fabulous author,

718
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: and he was a creative writing professor in Iowa. He

719
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: wrote Rambo. His name is David Morrell. He introduces himself

720
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: as Rambo's daddy. I just saw David at that writing

721
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: conference I was talking about back in August, and David's

722
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: got this big thing about when you pick an idea

723
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,239
Speaker 1: to write your book, it's got to be something that

724
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: really lights you up, that's going to put fuel in

725
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: your rocket ship to power you for the next year.

726
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: So I always try to pick some really cool geopolitical

727
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: set piece against which I'm going to set the story.

728
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: So I really so my books function. So first of all,

729
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 1: for you, for your listeners who don't know my books,

730
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: and I said, oh, you know, I've written on my

731
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: twenty fifth book. You can read my books.

732
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 4: They're like the James. That's what I tell people.

733
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: If the new Streams Bond movie is down the street

734
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: and you've never seen a Bond.

735
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 4: Movie, you can go see it.

736
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 1: You'll know exactly who Bond is right away. You will

737
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: not feel like you're missing out because he didn't start

738
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: back with doctor No, you just jump right in. My

739
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: books are the same way.

740
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 4: But I'm writing my books happen on two different levels.

741
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: There's either you can bounce across the top of the

742
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: waves and have a really great kind of toes in

743
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: the sand book in the hand beat read. But there's

744
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: also a lot of stuff that is deeper in there

745
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: if you want to pay attention to it. People tell

746
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: me that they love to read my books with either

747
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: their laptop open or their phone nearby, because they I say,

748
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: what I do is faction where you don't know where

749
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: the facts end and the fiction begins. So people are

750
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: constantly searching stuff on the internet going he must have

751
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: made that up. Oh my gosh, he didn't make that up.

752
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: Right, that's real.

753
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: Uh huh yeah, And that's that's fun for me because

754
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: I think people close my books smarter, and I'm not

755
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: I'm not preaching. I'm not you know, I'm not evangelizing

756
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: for anything in the world. I'm just to give people

757
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: a great white knuckle thrill ride. But people really do

758
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: seem to enjoy that part of the book, that so

759
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: much of it is actually real, and they close it smarter,

760
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: which I think is a nice value.

761
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 3: Add oh they do.

762
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: And this is my husband. He'll be like, did you

763
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: know that in Sweden?

764
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah. You know, just from your book.

765
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: Again, without getting political, I just have to ask, what

766
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: did you think of the Hesbala pagers exploding?

767
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 3: As an author who.

768
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: Lives, I could have never written that.

769
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 4: I could have never done it.

770
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: Nobody would have believed it, nobody. I would have been

771
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: laughed out of my editor's office with that. It was

772
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: an amazing, amazing feat. I mean, that was so creative,

773
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: you know. Mark Twain once said that the difference between

774
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 1: fiction and reality is people expect fiction to make sense,

775
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: which is really funny. Yeah, I love that that term.

776
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: I often joke around that I would never say that.

777
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: Stephen King has it easier than I do. He's got

778
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 1: it different. Stephen King, You're peck and dining. You can

779
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: go stick it in an evil semit terry and it's

780
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: going to come back, right, It's going to come back

781
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: to life. He can make up those rules I can't give,

782
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, CIA operatives, laser beams or you know, lightsabers.

783
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: I've got to I've got kind of a I'm hemmed

784
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: in with with what I can write about, so I

785
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: have to get those details details right.

786
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 4: Have I come up with that pager thing?

787
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: You know, my editor wouldn't have laughed me out of

788
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: her office, but it would have been a very very

789
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: tough discussion. Tough Yeah, like how are we supposed to believe? Like?

790
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: Because I think people's reaction if you put that in

791
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: the book is no way, no ways should ever work.

792
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 4: There's no way they wouldn't.

793
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: Like you're telling me, some guy wouldn't drop his pager

794
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: going into the grocery store and he sees the he

795
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: sees the explosive inside. Yeah, I mean, and that's why

796
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: allegedly they had to detonate all of them, is they

797
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: thought Hesbela was onto them. And so they that was

798
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: they were saving those pages for if they ever had to,

799
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: like the opening salvo of a war, and they believed,

800
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: based on their informants inside Hesbella, that it had been uncovered,

801
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: so they had no choice but to go and light

802
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: those pages up. They were forced into that. It was

803
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: pretty damn cool. And then the next day the walkie

804
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: talkie's exploded, which is amazing. I said, by the end

805
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: of the day, these guys won't even trust two cans

806
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 1: in a string, you know, they'll be afraid those are

807
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: going to blow up.

808
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 4: So big psychological impact.

809
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: Not only was it a from a tactical standpoint, from

810
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: how do we winnow the enemy down? That was great

811
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: in my opinion. It particularly is a thriller author, but

812
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 1: it hesbalized, never going to trust any they're all starting

813
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: their cars with a stick.

814
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 3: Now, the spycraft of it, it's just, uh yeah, okay,

815
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: I'm so glad I asked.

816
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 6: You we we share a publisher.

817
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know that I'm also a SIMONR.

818
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: Chu star.

819
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: How involved are your editors in the process. You just

820
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: said that that would have been like a conversation that

821
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 2: they would have had with you. Like this doesn't feel real.

822
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 2: How involved are they in? Like the con ten So.

823
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 4: I will have a conversation.

824
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: This is Christmas coming earlier and earlier every year. Where

825
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: the retailers want to know what's the next book. So

826
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: they want a title, They want the artwork done very quickly.

827
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: They want a description of the book which can be

828
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: changed later online. But go when I get locked in,

829
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm locked in. I can't think of anything else. I

830
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: just what I've committed to, something I don't.

831
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 4: Like to start. You're looking around for other ideas.

832
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'll have that talk with my editor in

833
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: the beginning and say, all right, this is what I'm

834
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: thinking about writing.

835
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 4: And we've been together.

836
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: This is my twenty fifth book with her. We've been

837
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: together the whole time. So I'll write it. But Trish

838
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 1: is my first My wife is my first reader. Right,

839
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: so she will go through. She has an unbelievable eye.

840
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: She's so good she catches missing words, and she's fabulous

841
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: with grammar and so by the time so she'll go

842
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: through and read it, I'll make her changes. And it's

843
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: rare that she she'll say if anything, Hey, you said this.

844
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 4: Three chapters ago.

845
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: You either don't say it three chapters earlier and just

846
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: say it now, or you get rid of this one here. Yeah.

847
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: So she's really good with the help. So by the

848
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: time my editor gets it, it's really clean. She's not

849
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: coming back to me saying you got to fix this,

850
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: you got to but that I don't write that fast either.

851
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: It's an old joke, but I say it. The deadlines

852
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 1: make the most beautiful sound as they go rushing past.

853
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: So I miss a lot of deadlines. Shadow of Doubt,

854
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: the most recent book we had to change. We had

855
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,439
Speaker 1: to change the publication date because I was just late

856
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: turning the book in because I was a very methodical,

857
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: very deliberate, slow steps by slow steps. But it was

858
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: called by a lot of reviewers the best book I've

859
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: ever written. So yes, there was a lot of anxiety,

860
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: a lot of agita at the publishing house at Simon

861
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: and Schuster because I didn't have the book in on time.

862
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: But in the end, i'd rather be late, I'd rather

863
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: have to change a pub date. I don't want to

864
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: do that if I can avoid it, I don't want

865
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: to have to take that. But in this case, again

866
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: I love my partners at Simon and Schuster, but I

867
00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: did not want to turn in a book that was

868
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: isn't the best that I was capable of. And that's

869
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: the Midwestern upbringing in me. My parents said, if you

870
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: push a broom, you'd be the best damn broom pusher

871
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: in the world. And so I'm not a brain surgeon.

872
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: This doesn't kill people. If I move my pub date

873
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: by two or three weeks, it's very inconvenient for the

874
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: you know, the people in the business chain. So I'm

875
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: in a schuster of the bookstores, and I don't want

876
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: to harass them unduly. But in this case, I think

877
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: it was I think it was worth it.

878
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: It's important. Yeah.

879
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read that Sony's developing the books for TV.

880
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 3: Is that true?

881
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. We're in an elevator now.

882
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 4: We're racing towards the end of the year.

883
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: And I'm excited to see where they where they place

884
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: it because they're getting ready to have all their meetings

885
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: with Netflix and Apple, Okay and Max and all those places.

886
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 4: So yeah, so it's true.

887
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, We've got the director of the John Wick movies

888
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: as our director. We've got and this is a TV

889
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: series as one of our executive producers.

890
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 4: We've got Howard Gordon.

891
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,720
Speaker 1: From twenty four in Rymeland and then then our writer

892
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: who's a brilliant writer. Steve Lightfoot wrote The Punisher, both

893
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: series of The Punisher. He worked on My Daughter Loves

894
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: and We Do Too. We loved Hannibal on NBC with

895
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: Madds Michelson where he plays Hannibal Lecter before he gets

896
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: captured with Lawrence Fishburne, and Steve was a writer on that.

897
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 4: He's just a brilliant writer.

898
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: So we had an A plus team, which having been

899
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: at this for over two decades, I've kissed every frog

900
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: in Hollywood by this point, I could write a book

901
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: about all the twists and turns, all the options we've

902
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: had and stuff. But we've got in my entertainment attorneys.

903
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: One of my dearest friends said, listen, every time we

904
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 1: got left at the altar for whatever reason, the option

905
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: time ran out, or the executives changed at the studio,

906
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: it's all worth it for the team we've built. Now

907
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: we really do have an A plus team. So I'm,

908
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, fingers crossed that you know this time next

909
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: year you and I A were talking about the debut

910
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: of The.

911
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: Well, and I know readers are going to are going

912
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 2: to look forward to that, and I'm sure you don't

913
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: have talent attached yet, but in your mind, I am

914
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: sure you.

915
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 3: Have thought about who Scott will be.

916
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: So here's what's really funny. For the longest time, I

917
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: thought we were going to start with the books as

918
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: they are currently. In fact, I thought we were going

919
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: to go back a couple of books and start with

920
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: Rising Tiger, which was all set in India that I

921
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: just did, which it was during Devali, which is really

922
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: a cool time, and it was just it was going

923
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: to be awesome to set it there. Plus, the crews

924
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: in India are fantastic. They've done so much film and television.

925
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: You get really very talented, experienced people. I just found

926
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: out a couple of days ago that the decision is

927
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: they want to start from the very first book. They

928
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: want to start from the lines of Liscern and show

929
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: people how Scott Harvath became Scott Harvath air quotes. So

930
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: they're modernizing. They're doing an updated take on my first novel.

931
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: They said, your readers are going to love this. We're

932
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: going to bring it up to speed. You wrote it

933
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, We're going to bring it up to speed.

934
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: For present day, and they said, we really think this

935
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: is the way to go, and it's unique and it's

936
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: fresh because we're showing the making of this incredible American hero.

937
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: So now I'm like, okay, so this is a guy,

938
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, is kind of late twenties, mid mid to

939
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: late twenties, so I have to rethink this entire thing.

940
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: And I'm sure the producers and the director have people

941
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: that they've worked with before and they love.

942
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 4: You know, at one point.

943
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: People were bugging me because I was so hot for

944
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: Chris Hemsworth, because you know, I want somebody, you know,

945
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: tough but handsome, great sense of humor too, which you

946
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: really can't fake. You can't stay being smart and having

947
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: a good sense of humor. So in Hemsworth has a

948
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: great sense of humor. So there may be some you know,

949
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: we go back and we've talked about does the star

950
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: make the series? Does the series make the star, and

951
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: they said, we'd really like to bring in a well

952
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: known actor, So it's going to be interesting to see

953
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: who they pick kind of in that demographic. So I

954
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: don't have I don't have anybody in mind, to be honest.

955
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 3: What about Chris Pratt, He's already.

956
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: Done terminal list, so that would be in the same genre.

957
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: Close yes, yea too close, too close.

958
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: Plus yeah, I mean I like Pratt, but Pratt's not

959
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: who I see as now as is my guy.

960
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 4: I see more of a Hemsworth type.

961
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: You know. At one point we thought about Scotty Eastwood.

962
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: I mean that's he's a potential to so I don't know.

963
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. And when you start getting into, like,

964
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: you know, anybody younger than Glenn Powell, I don't know

965
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: I'm seeing it. I don't know if I've seen any

966
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: of their movies, to be honest, but there's a lot

967
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: of you know who I like a lot. Did you

968
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: see the Guy Richie TV series that was based on

969
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: the movie, and it's called The Gentleman where it's all

970
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: about the So what's that guy's name? THEO James And

971
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: he was in second season of White Lotus. I think

972
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: THEO James would be He's such a good actor. He's

973
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: in the sweet spot of that age. If I could

974
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: pick somebody, if you said, all right, we're picking Scott

975
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: Harveth right now, I'd go with THEO James.

976
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 4: I think he's a fabulous actor.

977
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 3: Okay, THEO James, THEO James.

978
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: I wait for the call, put my chips on THEO James.

979
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 4: There we go.

980
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 3: Okay, shadow of Doubt. What headspace were you in when

981
00:44:58,800 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: you set this book?

982
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 4: So it's interesting.

983
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm always trying to do something different all this stuff.

984
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: I actually stumbled across something that happened in the nineteen

985
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: sixties that I used as inspiration for this book. I

986
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: did not know that during the Kennedy administration, real life

987
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: thing happened. A Russian defector came over to the United States,

988
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: and one of the biggest pieces of information he had

989
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: was that the French government and its intel services were

990
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: shot through with Soviet spies. Everybody here freaked out, and

991
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: they said, well, wait a second, if all these people

992
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: are compromised, how do we talk to our you know,

993
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: our contemporaries and these other agencies in France. How do

994
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: we let warn the French that they've got spies everywhere?

995
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: Kennedy wrote a letter, gave it to one of his

996
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: most trusted aids and said, you take this over to

997
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: the President of France. You stand in front of him,

998
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: watch him read it, and take the letter back wow,

999
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: and then eat it right yeah, then like eat it. Yeah, exactly,

1000
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: and it was called it was called the Sapphire Affair,

1001
00:45:58,520 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 1: and it was a really big deal.

1002
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 4: It fascinated me.

1003
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: I also didn't know, so I'm studying all this stuff

1004
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: and I thought I kind of knew a lot about

1005
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 1: the Cold War at that time. I also didn't know

1006
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: that the original headquarters for NATO was built behind the

1007
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: Arc de Triomph. I didn't know this, and that the

1008
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 1: French wanted to be on equal footing with the Brits

1009
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: and the Americans in NATO and we all said no,

1010
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 1: and the French got the way the French can get,

1011
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: and we moved NATO to Brussels. It's why NATO's and Brussels.

1012
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: But there's this big building that was built in the

1013
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: shape of an A to represent the alliance behind the

1014
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: Arc to trioph in Paris, and I thought, wow, what

1015
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 1: if we updated this? And there was a scandal like

1016
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: this today inside the French government. And it's very interesting

1017
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: because when the Brits did Brexit, Macron in France said, okay,

1018
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: we're now going to become the military heavyweight in the

1019
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: European Union. And they've been doing a lot of stuff

1020
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: behind the scenes to help Ukraine that a lot of

1021
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: people aren't reading about or hearing about in the press,

1022
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: because Macron's smart. He wants the Ukrainians to learn how

1023
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: to use French military equipment to keep buying it once

1024
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: they're able to buy it. And Macarne and his advisors

1025
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 1: also realized that the future of warfare is what we're

1026
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: seeing in Ukraine right now, particularly with the drones, so

1027
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: he wanted the ability to put as many military advisors

1028
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: in there as possible to learn how to do this.

1029
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: So what's happened is the Russians now are really really

1030
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: worried about the French and so I thought, wouldn't this

1031
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,919
Speaker 1: be interesting If a French intelligence officer uncovered this whole

1032
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: big thing, he couldn't even go to his own intelligence

1033
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: agency in France, So he's going to go and talk

1034
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: to his friend who's the head CIA guy at the

1035
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: US embassy in Paris, but is murdered before he can

1036
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: spill this to him. And that was kind of a

1037
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: kickoff for the whole the book, and that's what I

1038
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: was thinking about. So it was interesting in that I

1039
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: reached back to the past to find a little bit

1040
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: of inspiration, but I think it made for a believable

1041
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: yet different plot for an espionage book.

1042
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 3: Oh that's great. Final question before we do a quick

1043
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 3: lightning round.

1044
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: What's it like to be on a plane or in

1045
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 2: a doctor's office and see like eight people reading your

1046
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 2: new book.

1047
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 4: That's fun.

1048
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean that is really really it's it's really it is.

1049
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: It is cool to see and like I'll say to

1050
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 1: people like, how's that book?

1051
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,439
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, They're like, it's really good.

1052
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 4: You know sometimes if I'm in the mood, I will.

1053
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: If I'm in the mood, I will and if I

1054
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: get the right answer, you know, if somebody's like, yeah,

1055
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: it's a great book or whatever.

1056
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 4: Then I'll continue the conversation. H I'll continue the conversation.

1057
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: And then I don't like it.

1058
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, I was not that guy.

1059
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: Yeah not much for that thor guy. Yeah I didn't

1060
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: like it either. You should just leave it in the

1061
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: back of the seat back, like, don't even finish it

1062
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: when you get off the plane, just leave it here

1063
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: for somebody else, like a lending library. So fun. Well

1064
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: you knew you knew Andrew Breitbart right back in the day.

1065
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: Breitbart was a friend of mine in Breitbart would be

1066
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: walking through the airport.

1067
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 4: He'd see somebody with one of my books.

1068
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: He would call me on his cell phone and then

1069
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: hand the phone to the person reading my book like

1070
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: I was supposed to tap dance and entertain them for

1071
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: five minutes. It was funny. Anytime I saw the phone

1072
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: ring with him, it was a good chance he was

1073
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: in an airport and he.

1074
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 3: Was just like he just wanted to make your day

1075
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 3: because he was the nicest.

1076
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 4: It was very sweet. Yeah, he was a sweetheart of

1077
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 4: a guy.

1078
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 5: I loved that guy.

1079
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,720
Speaker 3: Okay, Lightning round. Are you ready?

1080
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: Yep? Let's go.

1081
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 3: Best Nashville Hot Chicken Princess. Yep. What's your favorite place

1082
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: to travel?

1083
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 4: Greece?

1084
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: Clancy or Grisham.

1085
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 4: Grisham. Well, that sounds weird, I said, I was not that. No, No, my.

1086
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: Dad swore that Clancy was paid by the word because

1087
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: his books were so thick. You know, I don't need

1088
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: fifteen pages when I describe a missile strike. All I

1089
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 1: need is there's two green berets somewhere above a house

1090
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: and they're painting it with a laser, and then the

1091
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: missile hits. I don't need to know about the gyroscope

1092
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. I read Clancy, but

1093
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: I could put it down. I can't put a Grisham down.

1094
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: I never could, totally never could.

1095
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 4: He is a brilliant, brilliant author. Clancy is a good

1096
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 4: writer too. Yeah, he's no question he did a lot

1097
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 4: for my genre. But I have to be honest with you, Grisham.

1098
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 2: Grisham, Wow, I just met John Grisham and he was lovely.

1099
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: I met him and his wife. Southern gentleman, total Southern gentlemen.

1100
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 2: They were great, They were great. Okay, wow, that blew

1101
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 2: my mind all right. Alec Baldwin or Harrison Ford. Harrison

1102
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: Ford best movie adaptation of a thriller.

1103
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 4: That's a great one. Eye the Needle from Freddie Forsyth's book.

1104
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I really like.

1105
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 4: Either Needle or Day of the Jackal Day. I think

1106
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 4: it's day.

1107
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: I think Day of the Jackal is the one, and

1108
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: I'm really thinking about where they're going to asassinate the Gaul.

1109
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 4: I believe Day of the Jackal.

1110
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: So I got redone with Richard Gear and Bruce willis

1111
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: not as good as the first making of it.

1112
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 2: Huh Yeah, Okay, Trojans, I got to take that back.

1113
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 4: Sorry, sorry, sorry, No. My favorite adaptation, my favorite and

1114
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 4: it still is the best today. I can't believe I

1115
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 4: blanked like that.

1116
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: Is The Eiger Sanction, which was based on a Travanian

1117
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: book that starred Clineaewood where he was hired as a

1118
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: killer to kill somebody on his team climbing the Eiger

1119
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: Mountain and he didn't know till the very end, at

1120
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: the end of the climb who he was supposed to kill.

1121
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: That's the best. That's the best adaptation of a book ever.

1122
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: Is The Eiger Sanction with Cline fantastic. Oh my god,

1123
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: it's so good. It stands up today. It's fabulous.

1124
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll watch it. I'm gonna go watch it. Trojans

1125
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 2: or Commodores Trojans.

1126
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 4: I went to USC, so there you go.

1127
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: I know, I know I wants yeah, yeah, yeah.

1128
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 4: So no, I'm always going to be a through and

1129
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 4: through US US.

1130
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: But living in Nashville, people called the University of Southern

1131
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: California the other USC because they're used to South Carolina

1132
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: since they're so close, right, so I always have to

1133
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: distinguish between the two.

1134
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 2: Funny you, this is the last question you were recently

1135
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 2: in my hometown where you posted a picture from inside

1136
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 2: of my my church.

1137
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 3: Did you know that?

1138
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

1139
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 3: You were at.

1140
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 4: I was like, three guesses, I just landed in this city.

1141
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: Three guesses where I am first, two don't count, and

1142
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: people are like and then people who are real fans

1143
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: of dunks, they're like Quincy, quin Quincy. That's me. They

1144
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: didn't get like people who are hardcore people because I

1145
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: guess Duncan Don'ut's started in Quincy, right.

1146
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: It's Quincy first of all, and it did, and because

1147
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 2: I grew up there in Boston when I was young,

1148
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: I had a black and white picture of the original

1149
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 2: Dunkin Donuts on my whow like next to my new

1150
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: kids on the block posters whoa.

1151
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 3: That's what deep trandom goes. So the question is when

1152
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 3: is iced coffee season?

1153
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,359
Speaker 4: It's always iced coffee season.

1154
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: As far as that's a pret answer.

1155
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 3: It's a pret answer. We don't have to believe this

1156
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:23,959
Speaker 3: is okay.

1157
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 4: There you go, There you go. I passed. Thank you,

1158
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 4: good to know, good to know.

1159
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 3: Well, that was really fun. Thank you so much.

1160
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 4: Sie.

1161
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:32,919
Speaker 1: It's listen.

1162
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 4: I always love spending time with you and talking with you, and.

1163
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: You remind me that there are good people in the world,

1164
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: there are smart people who care about things, who think deeply,

1165
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: feel deeply, and I've been looking forward to doing this

1166
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: ever since you first invited me. So I hope the

1167
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: podcast I have no doubt is gonna be huge success,

1168
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: and thank you for inviting me.

1169
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for coming on. If it is, it'll

1170
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 2: be because you gave us your time. I think, thank

1171
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: you so much and adore you.

1172
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: Just do you right back at you.

1173
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 2: Coming up next week on Off the Cup, I sit

1174
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: down with actor and fellow masshole Michael Chickliss and Yes

1175
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 2: to end the suspense, our accents come.

1176
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 3: Out as a Boston guy hardcore I Go, I'm with you, Wicked,

1177
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: had Coy, Wicked high Cos.

1178
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 2: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1179
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: part of the Reason Choice Network.

1180
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 3: If you want more, check out the other.

1181
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 2: Reason Choice podcasts Spolitics with Jamel Hill and Native Land Pod.

1182
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 2: For Off the Cup, I'm your host Se Cup, editing

1183
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 2: and sound design.

1184
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 3: By Derek Clements.

1185
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and

1186
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: Lindsay Hoffman.

1187
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 3: Rate and review wherever you get

1188
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 2: Your podcasts, Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.