Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in.
Speaker 2: A Bride Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg,
Speaker 2: Frida Egg, Brian Egg, Frida Egg.
Speaker 1: Bride Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Frida Egg Golf Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison,
Speaker 3: and today we're still trying to process the twenty twenty
Speaker 3: four US Open. Bryceon de Shamba won at Pinehurst number
Speaker 3: two in thrilling fashion, and Roy McElroy recorded one of
Speaker 3: the most heartbreaking runner up finishes in golf history. Maybe
Speaker 3: I don't think that's an exaggeration. Now, before I bring
Speaker 3: on Andy Johnson and Joseph Lamania to discuss our takeaways
Speaker 3: from the championship, including some chat about how Pinehurst number
Speaker 3: two fared in this tournament, I'd like to talk a
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Speaker 3: I'm going to bring on Joseph Lamania and Andy Johnson
Speaker 3: here to discuss some takeaways from the twenty twenty four
Speaker 3: US Open. Andy, first of all, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1: I'm doing great. I guess say I'm on and on adrenaline.
Speaker 1: I was still Joseph and I had a very early morning.
Speaker 1: We left the Pinehurst area at four fifteen for our flights,
Speaker 1: and I gotta say I was on the plane still
Speaker 1: buzzing from yesterday. That was an electric golf tournament.
Speaker 3: Joseph, how are you faring, Garrett?
Speaker 2: I'm great. I think similar to Andy. I was on
Speaker 2: the flight this morning just kind of taking in what
Speaker 2: had just happened and realizing the significance of that tournament yesterday.
Speaker 2: So I'm really excited to debrief it with you guys.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, let's first talk about the kind of
Speaker 3: contenders in the tournament, the basic action of the tournament,
Speaker 3: before we dive deep into Pinehurst Number two. The architecture,
Speaker 3: the presentation, the various issues around that. So does anybody
Speaker 3: have a Bryson related takeaway that they can dig into
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 2: I think for one huge takeaway for me, Garrett is
Speaker 2: that Bryson De Shamba's short game I did not appreciate
Speaker 2: it enough coming into this week. I think that was
Speaker 2: a huge story on Sunday, the number of short game
Speaker 2: shots that Bryson hit that were excellent. Obviously the bunker
Speaker 2: shot on eighteen is going to be the one that's remembered,
Speaker 2: but even getting up and down on two that was
Speaker 2: a heck of a short game shot early in the round.
Speaker 2: The up and down on eight was incredible, like time
Speaker 2: after time. The little wedge on ten to make birdie
Speaker 2: where he had a tiny landing zone at a crucial
Speaker 2: point in the round, like, Bryson's short game was super dialed.
Speaker 2: And that's something that I'm going to take with me
Speaker 2: into the future when I think about Bryson in major championships.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things with just in general
Speaker 1: with Bryson that gets a little underappreciated is his history
Speaker 1: of being just a really well rounded golfer. He was
Speaker 1: an extraordinarily great amateur player, and he won the USAM
Speaker 1: and at the time early in his career, I think
Speaker 1: like what was what was his game was really built
Speaker 1: around was all around talent. He struggled with putting mightily
Speaker 1: until he found the armack putter. I think he's struggled
Speaker 1: a little bit around the greens, but he seems to
Speaker 1: have figured that out. This is a guy that, like
Speaker 1: has been a great ball striker, has been a great
Speaker 1: all round player in general, but he has plugged his holes.
Speaker 1: He has improved, and he's I think like one of
Speaker 1: the things that goes underappreciated is just like the whole
Speaker 1: evolution of his career. Like I don't think we've ever
Speaker 1: seen a player take on so many forms so young
Speaker 1: in their career. Like I don't know what what Bryson
Speaker 1: de Shambo is gonna look like in five years, because
Speaker 1: we've never seen the same Bryson to Shambeau for five
Speaker 1: years or two, let alone two or three years.
Speaker 3: You know, has his short game always been as good
Speaker 3: as what we saw this past week or was this
Speaker 3: past week a new level for him in that area?
Speaker 2: It looks better. I mean, it's hard to tell because
Speaker 2: the data on live isn't as granular, but he was
Speaker 2: always pretty average around the greens. And I think something
Speaker 2: that has been debated I know a lot of people
Speaker 2: who are into the prediction oriented stuff with Bryson is
Speaker 2: that the single length wedges could make some short game
Speaker 2: shots more difficult. But he seems to have figured that out.
Speaker 2: And I've even seen some people saying that the single
Speaker 2: length wedges might have been beneficial on the green Side
Speaker 2: Bunker on eighteen, his final hole in that shot that's
Speaker 2: going to go down in history, that he was able
Speaker 2: to generate a little bit more speed, which was helpful
Speaker 2: in that situation. So I think there's a store a
Speaker 2: case to be made at least that Bryson to Shamba's
Speaker 2: kind of figured out a lot of those variables.
Speaker 3: So both of you were on site this week. Both
Speaker 3: of you witnessed the reception of Bryson to Shambeau by
Speaker 3: the gallery, which seemed really notable throughout the week. We've
Speaker 3: seen Bryson gain in popularity this year, but it's easy
Speaker 3: to forget that just last year he was getting booed
Speaker 3: still at major championships and it wasn't uncommon to see
Speaker 3: a gallery turn on him. This week was the opposite
Speaker 3: and so Andy, what what do you think is different now?
Speaker 3: What has changed?
Speaker 1: Bryson is incentivized by popularity. He he is a YouTuber.
Speaker 3: He loves being loved.
Speaker 1: He understands I think, like there he said in his
Speaker 1: press conference. I don't have the quote pulled up in
Speaker 1: front of me, but he said something along the lines
Speaker 1: of like I understand what goes into the production of content.
Speaker 1: I understand what it's like to be behind the camera,
Speaker 1: and I understand what it's like to be in front
Speaker 1: of the camera. And he also studies what does numbers?
Speaker 1: You know, he understands the full scope of like today's
Speaker 1: society is like popular, how people become popular online? And
Speaker 1: I think that whole experience. If you think about Bryson
Speaker 1: to Shambeau, he would he was like testy with cameraman before.
Speaker 1: He didn't like cameraman getting into his business. He's completely shifted,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of that. I think like
Speaker 1: a lot of his growth and I I'm sure people
Speaker 1: are tired of hearing about this, but like, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of his growth has to center around the
Speaker 1: YouTube thing and becoming a content creator. He's gotten way
Speaker 1: more comfortable as a person He's got a huge number
Speaker 1: of fans and followers, and I think he's always like
Speaker 1: as you allude to, he's I think at the core
Speaker 1: of Bryson, he's always just wanted to be loved, and
Speaker 1: the Internet has given him an outlet. And now he's
Speaker 1: learned how to take his Internet personality and translate it
Speaker 1: to major championship golf on a Sunday, and I have
Speaker 1: to say, I think it's a weapon. I think that
Speaker 1: the roarers and just that that energy has an impact
Speaker 1: on his competitors.
Speaker 2: Garrett. I know that there was a lot of chatter
Speaker 2: about this on social media, but I think it was
Speaker 2: so striking to see in person that Bryson is constantly
Speaker 2: listening to what every all the fans are saying around him.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how much that shown through on
Speaker 2: the telecast, but like on Saturday, people are making comments
Speaker 2: to him constantly as he walks down the fairway and
Speaker 2: he is acknowledging them and responding to them. He's about
Speaker 2: to hit a drive on ten on Saturday and some
Speaker 2: fan yelled like, this is number six at bay Hill
Speaker 2: but without the water makes no sense, But Bryson thought
Speaker 2: it was funny, like laughed and like looked up at
Speaker 2: the guy like he it must be exhausting. But the
Speaker 2: difference between like a Rory who was pretty locked in
Speaker 2: the entire weekend kind of blocking everything out, and Bryson
Speaker 2: was unbelievably striking.
Speaker 1: I think it's the difference between Bryson and almost every
Speaker 1: single other pro golfer who like the way they play
Speaker 1: golf and the way they've been taught to play golf
Speaker 1: is to not acknowledge anybody around you stay in your bubble,
Speaker 1: and like, I think that's been part of like the
Speaker 1: ethos of the sport, is that it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's very polite and courteous on the outside and the
Speaker 1: players stay very keep everything inside. I remember as a
Speaker 1: kid growing up, there was a lot of backlash to
Speaker 1: the way Tiger fists pumped from the old guard. Then
Speaker 1: Bryson kind of brought up Tiger and his energy as
Speaker 1: an inspiration in his press conference. I think it's similar.
Speaker 1: I think we're at like Tiger made it okay to
Speaker 1: be a little bit more expressive and demonstrative. I don't
Speaker 1: think that golf really like evolved and took the ball
Speaker 1: much from that. You know, there have been a few
Speaker 1: players that have been like I think JT when he
Speaker 1: role in is pretty expressive about like he wears his
Speaker 1: emotions on his sleeve, but for the most part that
Speaker 1: that didn't really translate. This might be the next evolution,
Speaker 1: and this the way he acts inside the ropes and
Speaker 1: the way the fans respond is much more like other sports.
Speaker 3: I will say that this interactiveness with the gallery probably
Speaker 3: works a lot better when you're playing well and the
Speaker 3: fans are behind you than when you're not playing well
Speaker 3: and the fans maybe are turning on you a little bit.
Speaker 3: And I think that that was probably a big part
Speaker 3: of his problem previously, because he was really attuned to
Speaker 3: people yelling Brooksy at him and saying things to him
Speaker 3: on the course about how he's lame and stupid. That
Speaker 3: got to him. And now it's the opposite. It's the
Speaker 3: opposite kind of reception. But this doesn't last forever. Right.
Speaker 3: The public affection that he's getting, that anybody gets, that
Speaker 3: any celebrity gets, is a temporary thing, and so I
Speaker 3: wonder how he's going to deal with it when things change,
Speaker 3: because they will. I'm not saying they should, but things
Speaker 3: will change.
Speaker 2: I'd be interested to see how that goes. I think
Speaker 2: one different Scarrett though, is that he has his YouTube channel,
Speaker 2: which I know we've already hit on. But I think
Speaker 2: the ability to craft his own image, like Bryson knows
Speaker 2: that whatever happens on the golf course, like he can
Speaker 2: go tell his own story once he gets off the
Speaker 2: course when he creates content. So I think having that
Speaker 2: platform and being able to create his own image gives
Speaker 2: him some level of control of it. Maybe he'll be
Speaker 2: able to deal with a little bit of criticism better
Speaker 2: than he was before.
Speaker 1: I think he's also going to have more support when
Speaker 1: things are going poorly because he's just got so many
Speaker 1: more fanned than he had before. Like he was kind
Speaker 1: of different and people didn't really know what to think
Speaker 1: about him, and then he had moments where it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't really like what this guy did.
Speaker 1: And at this point he's got a core legion of
Speaker 1: fans that are going to follow him and support him
Speaker 1: whether he's playing great or poorly.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I I think it's crazy how popular he is I
Speaker 1: and it showcases the power of YouTube.
Speaker 3: Why don't we talk briefly about Rory McElroy. This was
Speaker 3: just one of the most brutal losses that I can
Speaker 3: remember seeing in any sport, including in golf. I remember
Speaker 3: watching the nineteen ninety six Masters that final day. That's
Speaker 3: right when I was like getting into watching professional golf,
Speaker 3: and yeah, that was heartbreaking for Greg Norman. But he
Speaker 3: lost that tournament basically on the front nine or early
Speaker 3: on the back nine. Nick Faldo was just playing better,
Speaker 3: and Faldo won by a substantial amount. And so I
Speaker 3: guess my takeaway from what happened to Rory on the
Speaker 3: last three holes, missing two putts that were not much
Speaker 3: more than three or four feet in the case of
Speaker 3: the sixteenth hole it was a two and a half
Speaker 3: foot put was just that I haven't seen something quite
Speaker 3: that painful in a major championship in golf, I think. Ever,
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that I have a historical comparison here.
Speaker 3: It was really hard to watch, really hard to process,
Speaker 3: and I'm still kind of reeling from it. I feel
Speaker 3: so bad for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it was gut wrenching to watch. Anybody
Speaker 1: that's played golf has had probably an experience like this,
Speaker 1: whether it's to match with your friends or whether it's
Speaker 1: in the club championship and to have that happen when
Speaker 1: you're widely considered one of, if not the best player
Speaker 1: of your generation, who's on a ten year major slump,
Speaker 1: who's had numerous heartbreaks along the way, and seemingly had
Speaker 1: the tournament in the palm of his hand with with
Speaker 1: two and a half holes to go, have it to
Speaker 1: all slip away in that fashion where you know it
Speaker 1: was it was a short putting something that he had
Speaker 1: done extraordinarily well all year long that failed him. It's
Speaker 1: it's brutal. It's going to be I think, like one
Speaker 1: of the big stories now the rest of the year
Speaker 1: is is what what do we see from Rory McElroy.
Speaker 1: And obviously there's one major left this year, it's at Troon,
Speaker 1: and then there are a long it's a long season.
Speaker 1: Like one of the things about the way the majors
Speaker 1: work now is there's a long time before next April
Speaker 1: and and for some people who might have had a
Speaker 1: year full of no contention, that's a that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: They can refocus and come back next year. For someone
Speaker 1: like Rory, who's who's had a who went through this
Speaker 1: and he could win at Truon. But if he doesn't
Speaker 1: win at Truon, it's gonna it's gonna be at the
Speaker 1: top of his mind the rest of the rest of
Speaker 1: the year. I imagine it's gonna he's gonna think about
Speaker 1: this for probably the rest of his life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Garrett. Similarly, my big takeaway from it all was like,
Speaker 2: twenty five thirty years from now, when we look back
Speaker 2: on Rordy's close calls, some of them may get jumbled
Speaker 2: together a little bit if you're just looking at the leaderboard,
Speaker 2: the final leaderboard at least, But this was like by
Speaker 2: far the most devastating, heartbreaking loss that he had. It's
Speaker 2: not even close. And I think so many of these
Speaker 2: close calls Rory hasn't been getting in the mix, like
Speaker 2: making birdies, hitting those shots, like having the ball striking
Speaker 2: and the putting line up. And he actually did it
Speaker 2: this week, Like he put four birdies together in a
Speaker 2: crucial stretch of the round nine, ten, twelve, thirteen, Like
Speaker 2: he actually was doing what he needed to do to
Speaker 2: win and looked locked in, had a two shot lead
Speaker 2: with five to play, was leading on the sixteen green,
Speaker 2: just needed to avoid mistakes coming in. It felt like
Speaker 2: he was actually going to do it in a way
Speaker 2: that was completely different than all these close calls before.
Speaker 2: And then look he lost it, like this wasn't Bryson
Speaker 2: just going out and taking it from him. Rory lost it.
Speaker 2: He missed two very short putts. I know. The one
Speaker 2: on eighteen wasn't that was kind of difficult. The one
Speaker 2: on sixty was not difficult.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he was he was above the hole on
Speaker 3: eighteen right.
Speaker 1: Eighteen was a hard put in a vacuum.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And that pin, that pin is on like a
Speaker 3: tilted section of that green, the Payne Stuart pin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a hard pin. That was a hard putt
Speaker 1: on Thursday morning. If you put Teeing off ten. That
Speaker 1: was a hard put on Sunday afternoon to set the
Speaker 1: clubhouse lead at six under. It was an extraordinarily hard putt.
Speaker 1: And then when you throw in that he pulled a
Speaker 1: less than three foot putt two greens earlier, and it
Speaker 1: was a hard left to right slider. That is a
Speaker 1: It just ramps it up to an extremely difficult putt,
Speaker 1: and missing low right is probably the natural thing to
Speaker 1: do after a pull on sixteen. That's kind of what happens.
Speaker 2: I hear you. I hear you on that. I agree.
Speaker 2: It was difficult, but those are the puts you have.
Speaker 3: To make if you will win, right like and he
Speaker 3: made a lot of putts that he wasn't supposed to
Speaker 3: make earlier.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure wasn't supposed to I mean, yes, but those
Speaker 2: are the putts you have to make if you want
Speaker 2: to win the US Open, right like Tiger in two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight. The putt he made it Torrey Pines
Speaker 2: is a heck of a lot harder than the putt
Speaker 2: that Rory had on eighteen. It was four feet. I
Speaker 2: agree it was hard, but I'm not gonna I don't
Speaker 2: want to let him off the hook too much with
Speaker 2: like the putts on sixteen and eighteen. You gotta make
Speaker 2: those pots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I And And to your point, Garrett, about making
Speaker 1: putts he didn't he wasn't supposed to make. I watched
Speaker 1: a lot of Rory McElroy this week. He had so
Speaker 1: many putts earlier in the tournament that were similar range,
Speaker 1: Like his strategy was to hit it to that range,
Speaker 1: and he had you know, after after really Thursday, Friday
Speaker 1: and Saturday, he made nothing. And he had so many
Speaker 1: puts that burned, edges, hit hit corners of the cup
Speaker 1: that didn't drop and it felt like it was interesting
Speaker 1: because like in a way, that round on Friday felt
Speaker 1: like his round at LACC on Sunday, his round at
Speaker 1: Saint Andrews on Sunday where he was in really some
Speaker 1: really good spots but he just couldn't get anything to
Speaker 1: get going. And you know that's what you do. You
Speaker 1: play the averages out and you know you're gonna make some,
Speaker 1: and he made them, and he made him in a
Speaker 1: spurt and it was really similar to Quail Hollow, where
Speaker 1: it felt like he was going to a gear. He
Speaker 1: did go to a gear. He went to a gear
Speaker 1: that nobody else had, and unfortunately it just you know,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of psychoanalysis that you can
Speaker 1: get to as to what happened between sixteen seventeen and eighteen.
Speaker 1: I think I think one of the unfortunate things is
Speaker 1: that an extraordinary bogie is going to be obscured on fifteen.
Speaker 1: The shot out of the Native on fifteen, to keep
Speaker 1: that on the green was out of this world good.
Speaker 1: That was such. That was difficulty twelve out of ten,
Speaker 1: and he kept like keeping that on that green from
Speaker 1: that lie was unbelievable in having a a chance at par,
Speaker 1: But I mean it's too bad because he did everything
Speaker 1: he needed to do in the week, and then the
Speaker 1: final three holes he kind of just had problems with
Speaker 1: short putts.
Speaker 3: In interpreting what happened with Rory down the stretch, there
Speaker 3: can be a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking and I
Speaker 3: don't want to get too deep into that, but a
Speaker 3: couple of things that I want to point out that
Speaker 3: got a little bit hidden about his play down the
Speaker 3: stretch were one that t shot on fifteen that skidded
Speaker 3: over the green. Maybe there was some bad luck involved there,
Speaker 3: but also just seemed like he overshot the green and
Speaker 3: missed in really the wrong place. There weren't that many
Speaker 3: misses long on fifteen. On Sunday, there were a few,
Speaker 3: and nobody made par from back there, and that's why
Speaker 3: there weren't that many players back there, because everybody knew
Speaker 3: that that was kind of the deadly place to be
Speaker 3: on that hole. And then on eighteen, apparently Nick Faldo
Speaker 3: pointed this out on the Sky's sports feed. Shane Bacon
Speaker 3: told me about this this morning, But Rory pulled driver
Speaker 3: on that tee for the first time all week. Evidently
Speaker 3: he had just hit three wood off of that tee
Speaker 3: every other day, and I'm not sure if there was
Speaker 3: a rationale for the driver that were just not privy to.
Speaker 3: There probably was, but there were some decisions in those
Speaker 3: last few holes that maybe are getting overlooked because of
Speaker 3: how spectacularly hard to watch those putts on sixteen and
Speaker 3: eighteen were. And it brings us back to this old
Speaker 3: question of you know, maybe old at this point ten
Speaker 3: year old question or five year old question of whether
Speaker 3: Rory could use some more guidance out there on the
Speaker 3: course and making his decisions.
Speaker 2: And you don't know how you feel the shot him fifteen.
Speaker 2: I'd like to see it again. I think that's pretty fair, Garrett,
Speaker 2: because long big death.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it did take a big bounce. It did take
Speaker 3: a big bounce. I felt like it was.
Speaker 1: It came out low, it was fading. It looked like
Speaker 1: a good shot. I was right behind the tee box
Speaker 1: it was. I mean, you want to hit a cut
Speaker 1: into that green? It was cut and it took a
Speaker 1: monster bounce.
Speaker 2: Okay, fifteen, sure, if that can be litigated. I actually
Speaker 2: don't agree necessarily on eighteen. If he was feeling confident
Speaker 2: with driver, that's a hole that a lot of golfers
Speaker 2: were hitting driver on all day. It doesn't get super
Speaker 2: narrow at driver length. In general, if you're deciding between
Speaker 2: three wood and driver, like driver's often a good call.
Speaker 2: I don't have a problem with that. If he felt
Speaker 2: good over it, had some adrenaline flowing, and felt like
Speaker 2: he could make a good, confident swing. I think we
Speaker 2: have a tendency when a player hits a ball in
Speaker 2: a bad spot off the tea with driver to suggest
Speaker 2: that it should have been three wood coming down the stretch,
Speaker 2: and he might have he needed to make birdie as well.
Speaker 2: Right if Bryson makes that put on seventeen, so I
Speaker 2: can get with you a little bit more on fifteen.
Speaker 2: I don't think driver was a foolish decision on the
Speaker 2: last hol.
Speaker 1: I think if you're gonna examine some decision making, like
Speaker 1: one area that like I've thought about a lot today.
Speaker 1: It's funny, like he host on this cross country flight.
Speaker 1: I'm just reliving, like thinking about like basically the entire tournament,
Speaker 1: the whole time flying. And one thing I centered on
Speaker 1: was the way he played five all week. He drove
Speaker 1: it right down the middle of fairway. I think all
Speaker 1: four rounds he was in great position and he played
Speaker 1: the whole even par birdied it the first round. He
Speaker 1: bogied it on Sunday. He made a spectacular par in
Speaker 1: the second round when he found the waste area that
Speaker 1: claimed victim to Scottie Scheffler and Xander Schoffley in the
Speaker 1: same group. I wonder what he would have done had
Speaker 1: he not watched those guys, because I think he might
Speaker 1: have tried to play the heroic shot and that's why
Speaker 1: he kind of t I had to do on Sunday,
Speaker 1: But like I might zero in on that hole as
Speaker 1: like the hole that he misplayed the most in terms
Speaker 1: of the week. There was like a very clear miss
Speaker 1: there and the miss was was long, right, And I
Speaker 1: want to be clear here, it's hard. Everybody who plays golf, nos,
Speaker 1: it's hard to miss it exactly where you want to.
Speaker 1: But like that, if you miss it, if you dumped
Speaker 1: it right, it was great spot to basically every pin
Speaker 1: on that on that green if you can get into
Speaker 1: that long rite collection area. And the one thing that
Speaker 1: everybody knew, yeah, every one thing everybody knew where you
Speaker 1: couldn't go was left and he found himself there twice.
Speaker 1: And like when you look at that hole his length,
Speaker 1: he's hitting mid irons into that par five and to
Speaker 1: play it even par for the week is super disappointing,
Speaker 1: especially since he played from the fairway for four or
Speaker 1: four days.
Speaker 3: At the same time. Once again, Rory McElroy was in
Speaker 3: position to win a major championship, and he has been
Speaker 3: in that position so many times in the past few years.
Speaker 3: That's another thing that's going to get lost in the
Speaker 3: discussion of what happened in the last three holes. Rory
Speaker 3: was there yet again, and that is incredibly impressive, and
Speaker 3: I think some credit should be given to that, along
Speaker 3: with criticism of those missed opportunities. All Right, before we
Speaker 3: get into what I think will be a more uplifting
Speaker 3: discussion of the course and the course set up at
Speaker 3: Pinehurst number two, because there was one thing that went
Speaker 3: amazingly well this past week, and that was Pinehurst number
Speaker 3: two and the way it played for these golfers. Before
Speaker 3: we get to that, I'd like to talk a bit
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Speaker 3: All right, let's get into some course related takeaways. We
Speaker 3: can start wherever we want. Why don't we go to
Speaker 3: you first, Joseph, Do you have a Pinehurst number two
Speaker 3: related takeaway that you'd like to set us off with?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I have a bunch. I think the main
Speaker 2: one for me, the perched domed greens have a lot
Speaker 2: of benefits in the way that they play for professional
Speaker 2: golfers that I think the main advantage of them, at
Speaker 2: least in ten the world's best is that there are
Speaker 2: so many shots out there, both on approach shots and
Speaker 2: short game where you can't go long or you have
Speaker 2: a serious problem and you often can't go short right
Speaker 2: or you might have to try that shot again it
Speaker 2: may roll back to your feet and so the right left. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure,
Speaker 2: but there's so many times where you have a great
Speaker 2: example would be Bryson in the bunker on five right
Speaker 2: of the green on the Sunday on the final round,
Speaker 2: where he's got such a delicate bunker shot and it's
Speaker 2: absolute death long of that pin. That how confident you
Speaker 2: are in your bunker game determines how aggressive you can
Speaker 2: be with that short game shot. And you saw it
Speaker 2: like whole nines. Another example to the front right pin
Speaker 2: on Saturday, Like how confident you are with your short
Speaker 2: game kind of dictated how really really how well you
Speaker 2: could how close you could hit it to the flag,
Speaker 2: or else you're gonna have a problem both long and short.
Speaker 2: We don't see that that often in professional golf, Like
Speaker 2: there's usually danger in one direct but not the other,
Speaker 2: or rough stops it if you go too far long.
Speaker 2: There's not this like, oh I may have a serious
Speaker 2: problem if I hit this three feet with three feet
Speaker 2: too much pace. So I think that's just such an
Speaker 2: exceptional test of short game and it really shows who
Speaker 2: has their stuff that week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree with this, and I think it it.
Speaker 1: I think the things that stood out, like there's a
Speaker 1: couple of things that stood out about about Bryson and
Speaker 1: Rory who separated themselves, but to me, they're both of
Speaker 1: their short game shots over the especially over the weekend.
Speaker 1: It was just a different level than everyone else, and
Speaker 1: it it seemed, you know, like what you illustrate on
Speaker 1: the fifth hole was that's an awesome depiction because you
Speaker 1: saw so many players so afraid of long in so
Speaker 1: many cases that they you end up with twelve feet.
Speaker 1: I think like this is the beauty of when the
Speaker 1: ball is on the ground and when there is fear
Speaker 1: of where it might go on the ground. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what Pinehurst does really through the entire golf course,
Speaker 1: because there's also that fear off the tee where when
Speaker 1: the ball's rolling and you just are terrified of it
Speaker 1: going into the waste areas because you just don't know
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. And I've seen a lot of
Speaker 1: people complaining about the waste areas. Garrett. I thought you
Speaker 1: had a great Twitter thread that, you know, Bryson, everybody's
Speaker 1: saying he didn't get penalized, but he hit it in
Speaker 1: all these waste areas and he only hit one green
Speaker 1: out of them.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think part of this, and I'm putting my
Speaker 3: tinfoil hat on right now, I think part of this
Speaker 3: is that on the telecast, we heard Brandal Shambly talking
Speaker 3: a lot about how lucky Bryson was getting. Bryson would
Speaker 3: hit a drive offline, it would trundle into the waste
Speaker 3: areas and Brandle would pipe up and say, up there
Speaker 3: he is again getting off scott free, or something to
Speaker 3: that effect. That's not an exact quote, but the thing
Speaker 3: was those lies, although they weren't completely boned, he didn't
Speaker 3: find like the middle of a wiregrass tuft, which by
Speaker 3: the way, is pretty rare at Pinehurst most of the
Speaker 3: time it's kind of these in between lies. Bryson found
Speaker 3: some kind of scrapy, weird lies, and guess what, he
Speaker 3: played really well out of them. He advanced the ball
Speaker 3: generally far enough to get up by the green. There
Speaker 3: was one time that he wasn't able to do that on.
Speaker 1: Twelve I think it was, and on eighteen and.
Speaker 3: On eighteen he but he got up into the region
Speaker 3: of the green.
Speaker 1: But then he hit in us history.
Speaker 3: And that's what he was doing. He was missing greens
Speaker 3: out of waste areas because guess what, it's really hard
Speaker 3: to control your ball, even out of a good lie
Speaker 3: in these waste areas. They're sand. I mean, think about that, right.
Speaker 3: You can't compress it off of the surface like you
Speaker 3: would if it were on Pinehurst's Bermuda turf, and so
Speaker 3: you're going into these extremely penalizing, difficult greens, you think
Speaker 3: you're going to be able to hold many greens out
Speaker 3: of the waste area. Well, that's what that stuff is doing.
Speaker 3: And if it were consistent Bermuda rough, then guys would
Speaker 3: be hitting the same kinds of shots where they wouldn't
Speaker 3: be hitting greens. They would be kind of finding the
Speaker 3: areas around the greens, but it might be a little
Speaker 3: bit easier, and it would certainly be more predictable. The
Speaker 3: essence of Pinehurst waste areas is their unpredictability. Let's not
Speaker 3: leave that behind just because we're mad about what happened
Speaker 3: with Bryson's balls on the last day of this Open.
Speaker 1: I just want to point something out here too. We
Speaker 1: already watched a US Open where Bryson missed fairways in
Speaker 1: thick rough and hit a bunch of greens. We watched
Speaker 1: that at Wingfoot. Yeah, he would just hit it into
Speaker 1: the rough and then hit it onto the green from
Speaker 1: the thick, gnarly rough like we've seen that. This to
Speaker 1: me was a way bigger deterrent to Bryson. Bryson wasn't
Speaker 1: aiming down like the right half of a fairway and
Speaker 1: saying I'm just gonna blast it over here and maybe
Speaker 1: I'll be in the fairway because this is the way
Speaker 1: the green opened. I mean, you could tell that that
Speaker 1: the wiregrass was giving him a great deal of stress.
Speaker 1: Just look at how long he was taking to hit
Speaker 1: those shots. I mean, like the shot he hit into
Speaker 1: into eleven. I wasn't back there, I didn't see the
Speaker 1: lie and I haven't watched the coverage of it, but
Speaker 1: you could just tell by the sheer amount of time
Speaker 1: how tricky that shot was, and it wasn't a great result.
Speaker 1: He ended up in that front left bunker and made
Speaker 1: a really good up and down. I think what's really
Speaker 1: great about Pinehurst just in general, is that if you
Speaker 1: hit a poor shot, whether it's off the tee, whether
Speaker 1: it's approaching the green, you have to hit a great
Speaker 1: shot to make par. It could come in the form
Speaker 1: of a long putt, it could come in the form
Speaker 1: of a great chip shot, it could come from the
Speaker 1: form of a great recovery shot from the native. But
Speaker 1: like two, when you get out of position there something
Speaker 1: you have to do something superb to make the par
Speaker 1: And I think That's one of the things that I'll
Speaker 1: take away from Pinehurst is just it does such a
Speaker 1: good job of drawing lines, and I think what in
Speaker 1: giving viewers and understanding of that's good and that's not good.
Speaker 1: Anything on the green felt good this week. It was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: they're on the green. Anything slightly off the green, it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, it's gonna be. They're gonna have to get
Speaker 1: up and down. That's not easy. Then in certain places
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that's impossible. Up and down like Bryson's
Speaker 1: left of eight, which he miraculously got up and down
Speaker 1: and then off the tee. It was such a it
Speaker 1: was such a like it on the edge of your seat.
Speaker 1: Like I found myself like running inside the ropes trying
Speaker 1: to go see what the lies were because you're so
Speaker 1: excited to see what happened to someone when they went
Speaker 1: in the wiregrass.
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a perception after this tournament that
Speaker 2: you could just kind of bomb it and spray it around,
Speaker 2: and I just don't think that that's accurate. Garrett, Like,
Speaker 2: there were plenty, I don't know what how many shots
Speaker 2: the telecast showed. There are plenty of lies in the
Speaker 2: wiregrass that were harry that snagged players clubs and they
Speaker 2: made big numbers like that did happen, So I think
Speaker 2: it's inaccurate to suggest that Bryson just bombed it around
Speaker 2: and got away with it. He shot tied for the
Speaker 2: worst score on Sunday of anybody that finished in the
Speaker 2: top ten because he was getting penalized for his errant shots,
Speaker 2: and he put on a magnificent short game display. You
Speaker 2: could go through a bunch of the holes on brilliant
Speaker 2: shots he hit to get himself back into position. And
Speaker 2: like one other small thing about the wire grass, sometimes
Speaker 2: and we can get into like whether or not the
Speaker 2: wiregrass was overdone, but sometimes the wiregrass affected players' stances,
Speaker 2: and it may not the ball may have been lying cleanly,
Speaker 2: but like Bryson on ten, he was having a very
Speaker 2: difficult time standing and figuring out a good way to
Speaker 2: make a stance that he could hit a long iron
Speaker 2: on the on the par five tenths. Like the wiregrass
Speaker 2: was a penalty. The notion that you could just blast
Speaker 2: it around and then go find it isn't accurate. And
Speaker 2: if you go through Bryson shots, you're gonna find a
Speaker 2: lot of situations where he showed some restraint, wasn't just
Speaker 2: bashing it, or when he found himself in native area,
Speaker 2: he paid a significant price for it. So I don't
Speaker 2: I reject that it didn't that this US Open wasn't
Speaker 2: about accuracy at all. It wasn't a hardcore accuracy test.
Speaker 2: It wasn't, but it wasn't a bomb and gouge type
Speaker 2: of setup by any stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 1: I love your point about the stance because that's one
Speaker 1: of the ways that you can mess with a good
Speaker 1: player the most. Is like where Bryson's generating power, where
Speaker 1: you generate stability and a golf swing is from your feet,
Speaker 1: and those wire grasses are clumpy, they're tough, they sit
Speaker 1: up the roots like sit up above the ground, and
Speaker 1: you could get really awkward stances in there. The other thing,
Speaker 1: I just like would love to point out who would
Speaker 1: you say are the three best drivers of the golf
Speaker 1: ball in the world.
Speaker 2: Scotti Scheffler's one of them. So I don't want to
Speaker 2: I have him.
Speaker 1: He drove it terrible by his standards, and guess what
Speaker 1: he had, like the worst tournament of his year.
Speaker 2: Basically Cam Young Rory would Bryson. I know, I know
Speaker 2: you're going for Bryson, Scotti, Scheffler, and Cam Young would
Speaker 2: probably be my top four.
Speaker 1: It allowed Bryson to Shambeau and Rory McElroy a stage
Speaker 1: to showcase that are immense off the t talents that
Speaker 1: few players can match. And for Rory, I think he
Speaker 1: gained seven shots on the field off the tee over
Speaker 1: the course of the week. For Bryson, he was not
Speaker 1: that far behind. He gained like five. But I think
Speaker 1: a lot of that reason that number was low was
Speaker 1: because he drove it bad on Sunday. He didn't pick
Speaker 1: up really any shots on Sunday. And I think most
Speaker 1: people will know this that he had to swap out
Speaker 1: his driver, and I think like that that driver swap,
Speaker 1: I think showcases how tough it was, this small little
Speaker 1: change to a new driver head that wasn't, as he said,
Speaker 1: worn in enough. It needed to be hit fifty more
Speaker 1: times to be right the right head. For him, that
Speaker 1: driver head change caused like him to go from maybe
Speaker 1: the second best driver of the golf ball in the
Speaker 1: tournament to average.
Speaker 3: Joseph, I want to put this to you. I think
Speaker 3: we all agree on this subject. So I want to
Speaker 3: kind of throw a little, you know, a little n
Speaker 3: the works here. What we saw this week was the
Speaker 3: two longest drivers of the ball, Bryson to Shambeau and
Speaker 3: Roy McElroy, separating themselves from the field. We saw Bryson
Speaker 3: missing a bunch of fairways on Sunday and still winning.
Speaker 3: How can you make the argument that Pinehurst number two
Speaker 3: is not a bomber's paradise based on this result.
Speaker 2: There's a few ways to go. For one, it was
Speaker 2: a hard cour The course plays long, and there's a
Speaker 2: lot of long irons, and oftentimes the longest drivers in
Speaker 2: the field are the best long iron players. And I
Speaker 2: think that that's true of both Bryson to Shambo and Rory.
Speaker 2: They hit a lot of good long irons and so yeah,
Speaker 2: they're at the top of the leaderboard.
Speaker 1: As they both played well at bay Hill over the
Speaker 1: course of their career.
Speaker 3: Right and Bryson, for him, long irons are like his
Speaker 3: seven and eight irons. By the way, just to interject
Speaker 3: here real quick before you finish your point, Bryson's shot
Speaker 3: on the par three fifteenth hole on Sunday was a
Speaker 3: good representation I think of how high he hits his
Speaker 3: irons at that distance. That was an enormously long shot
Speaker 3: for the iron that he hit. I think he probably
Speaker 3: hit an eight iron, maybe a seven iron, and it
Speaker 3: was way up in the air and it landed pretty softly.
Speaker 3: I mean, the announcers were worried that it was going
Speaker 3: to roll off the back of the green based on
Speaker 3: where it landed, but it checked up because that thing
Speaker 3: went way up in the air.
Speaker 2: Right, So you're getting some of that right, Like, yes,
Speaker 2: long hitters are going to do well in part for
Speaker 2: that reason. There's a bunch of t shots out there
Speaker 2: that just aren't that bomber friendly. Right the first hole,
Speaker 2: there's no advantage to being a bomber, Like everyone's hitting
Speaker 2: a long iron out into the center of the fairway.
Speaker 2: The seventh hole, Bryson got daring and did rip a driver,
Speaker 2: but that's really risky, and a lot of golfers laid
Speaker 2: way back, including Rory, who took a super conservative strategy
Speaker 2: off the tee there. So there's a mixture of holes
Speaker 2: that are bomber friendly and not so much.
Speaker 1: Three most days was just laid back with an iron
Speaker 1: right thirteen until they made it driveable, which I think
Speaker 1: if we want to get into critiques was a bad
Speaker 1: drivable part four. I think it finally puts to bed
Speaker 1: that every drible four is a great drivable par four.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there are a lot of holes that took
Speaker 1: it out of their hands.
Speaker 2: But there are also some holes that are pretty bomber friendly,
Speaker 2: right like twelve, fourteen, sixteen, eleven, yeah, ten.
Speaker 3: Probably ten, Yeah, ten would be the number one hole
Speaker 3: for me, where it's just like, you know, it's it's
Speaker 3: not the easiest hole in the world, but it's a
Speaker 3: pretty straight line uphill fairway and you're looking at it
Speaker 3: and you're like, well, there's really no use in doing
Speaker 3: anything fancy here. I'm just going to crush it up
Speaker 3: the middle.
Speaker 2: Even eight is kind of like that too. But the
Speaker 2: thing is, when you got offline, you found danger and
Speaker 2: there was an opportunity to make a big number. You
Speaker 2: don't want to stand there with a four iron in
Speaker 2: your hand, maybe not the best stance in your ball,
Speaker 2: not exactly sure how it was going to react out
Speaker 2: of that wiregrass. So I don't know the kind of
Speaker 2: points Brandle was making on the telecast, and I've seen
Speaker 2: a lot of that sentiment expressed on social media, but
Speaker 2: I don't think it's accurate that it was a just
Speaker 2: hit it wherever and then go find it and hit
Speaker 2: it from there. That's not the way it played.
Speaker 1: I think one thing to call out, and I, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd be curious what you guys think is a critique
Speaker 1: for Pinehurst number two in the way that the USGA
Speaker 1: went about setting this up this year. The fairways played
Speaker 1: extremely slow and soft given the weather conditions for the week,
Speaker 1: and comparatively to twenty fourteen, where we saw an extremely
Speaker 1: baked out Pinehurst. I have a hunch that the premise
Speaker 1: and desire was for the golf course to look more
Speaker 1: green for television, and I think with that it made
Speaker 1: the fairways play a little bit wider, giving players a
Speaker 1: little bit more wide berth, and also limiting, you know,
Speaker 1: the amount of balls that got to the edges running
Speaker 1: into that wire grass. And I'm curious what your guys'
Speaker 1: thoughts are, but those fairways were significantly slower than twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: and there was absolutely no reason for them to be
Speaker 1: slower unless it was an intentional decision. And what could
Speaker 1: that intentional decision? You know, Like I, as I think
Speaker 1: through my head, television's always loved a good green product.
Speaker 2: Garrett, go first, but I actually kind of disagreed, go ahead,
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 3: I'd actually don't have any useful information here. The USGA
Speaker 3: did not release any information about how they prepared the fairways.
Speaker 3: They were very thorough in communicating how they prepared the greens,
Speaker 3: and they were restrained almost to the point of being tentative,
Speaker 3: but not quite. They were moderate in their presentation of
Speaker 3: the greens. They were stimping at about thirteen to fourteen
Speaker 3: all week, which is pretty damn fast, but they could
Speaker 3: have made them more fiery. Now. I don't know if
Speaker 3: they watered the fairways more than they did in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 3: or if there was just a little bit more rain
Speaker 3: in the lead up to the tournament.
Speaker 1: What's your sense, Andy, they were soft, Like from the
Speaker 1: beginning of the week, sentiment of players was fairways are
Speaker 1: really slow. I think some of this also goes to
Speaker 1: like preventing the chimer around the green thing. They wanted
Speaker 1: to keep the grass around the green a little healthier
Speaker 1: because when that grass burned out, it gave more incentive
Speaker 1: for putter to be a choice rather than wedge. But
Speaker 1: I think also with that those fairways being wider benefited
Speaker 1: some of some of that length off the tee. I
Speaker 1: think that is one of the things, like where it
Speaker 1: gave a little bit wider berth, and the way those
Speaker 1: fairways move on diagonals got counteracted a little bit. I
Speaker 1: spoke with numerous players who played both twenty fourteen and
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, and one of their biggest points of
Speaker 1: emphasis was how much slower the fairways were.
Speaker 2: Okay, I actually do agree with you on that, Andy,
Speaker 2: I thought overall on the total firmness thing, I thought
Speaker 2: where we may disagree is that they didn't really push
Speaker 2: it on the greens. They aired. They kind of decided
Speaker 2: to make the greens to make the decision that the
Speaker 2: greens should play fast, but not as firm as they could.
Speaker 2: And maybe I'm in the minority here, I actually agree
Speaker 2: with that decision.
Speaker 1: I agree too. I think the greens were perfect.
Speaker 2: I think they were perfect.
Speaker 1: I think when you get those elevated greens, you have
Speaker 1: to provide you have to provide the ability to hit
Speaker 1: good shots, and you have to provide the ability for
Speaker 1: every type of player to hit a great shot. If
Speaker 1: you would have made those greens, Firmer, Bryson and Rory
Speaker 1: would have run away even more or because trajectory of
Speaker 1: your shot in would have been you know, the main thing.
Speaker 1: You know, like if you get a guy hitting a
Speaker 1: three iron on the fourth hole or you know, a
Speaker 1: three iron on the on the sixth hole, who's a
Speaker 1: shorter hitter versus a six iron, You're just with the
Speaker 1: severity of the false fronts, you can't land it short
Speaker 1: of a lot of those greens and have it roll up.
Speaker 1: So the greens have to be have a level of
Speaker 1: receptiveness to allow players to land them on the greens
Speaker 1: and stop them. Now, no matter what level of receptiveness
Speaker 1: they are, the high ball hitter is going to have
Speaker 1: an advantage, but you have to allow the shorter hitters
Speaker 1: a chance.
Speaker 2: I agree, And it's not even just the short hitters,
Speaker 2: like you need to give every player in the field
Speaker 2: a chance to land the ball, even the long hitters.
Speaker 2: Fifteen if that had gotten much Firmer would have been
Speaker 2: basically unhittable. And what I think, maybe sometimes I disagree
Speaker 2: with some people at Frida egg On not not really,
Speaker 2: but I think fast greens are necessary ingredient of testing
Speaker 2: the world's best and when players short sighted, if you
Speaker 2: sacrifice too much on green speed to preserve some pin locations.
Speaker 2: They're going to get up and down in a lot
Speaker 2: of situations where I think the greens being faster presents
Speaker 2: a better challenge.
Speaker 1: So I where I'm going to push back is you'd
Speaker 1: have more putts like Roy McRoy had on the eighteenth green,
Speaker 1: which are puts that pro golfers don't see very much.
Speaker 1: And three four footers, as we just saw when you
Speaker 1: got to play them outside the hole, are a lot
Speaker 1: tougher than your four footer right center, and that's the
Speaker 1: type of stuff that can get in players heads.
Speaker 2: That's fair, But also on the ninth hole when players
Speaker 2: are trying to when they mishit, their t shots to
Speaker 2: a front right pin the part three and they have
Speaker 2: to put over that ridge and keep it on the
Speaker 2: green and control the speed. It being at a high
Speaker 2: speed but achievable was a really good test. And the
Speaker 2: more you slow those greens down, that putt gets a
Speaker 2: lot easier. So I'm actually in favor of a little
Speaker 2: bit of receptiveness in the greens and an ultra high speed. Garrett,
Speaker 2: how do you feel about that?
Speaker 3: I'm fine with that, and I was fine with how
Speaker 3: they presented the greens in general this week. They were
Speaker 3: receptive to really good shots, generally from the fairway, generally
Speaker 3: from good angles, and they were very rejecting of less
Speaker 3: good shots from less good positions. And I think that
Speaker 3: that's probably the goal that you're going for when you're
Speaker 3: setting up Pinehurst number two for a championship like this.
Speaker 3: They were restrained. They watered the greens every single evening,
Speaker 3: they'd double cut them in the morning, and didn't roll
Speaker 3: all of the greens every day. They rolled select greens
Speaker 3: the first three days and rolled none of them on
Speaker 3: Sunday morning. If there's one thing that I kind of
Speaker 3: wish they had done, I wish they had pushed the
Speaker 3: greens a bit more on se just from my perspective
Speaker 3: as a viewer being entertained, but from a competitive standpoint,
Speaker 3: I understand why they did what they did. They set
Speaker 3: the course up to be slightly more gettable. On Sunday,
Speaker 3: the scoring average was about a stroke and half lower
Speaker 3: than it was on Saturday. Part of that's because thirteen
Speaker 3: was driveable and six was shorter, But to me, just
Speaker 3: looking at shots coming into those greens on Sunday, they
Speaker 3: were noticeably, if very subtly more receptive and I think
Speaker 3: that was intentional, and my choice as a sicko would
Speaker 3: have been to kind of let things off the chain
Speaker 3: a little bit. But again, get why they did what
Speaker 3: they did. This is the new way at the USGA.
Speaker 3: You don't have Mike Davis back there, like, you know,
Speaker 3: trying to push the edges. John Bodenhammer and his setup
Speaker 3: crew are very restrained, very moderate, very smart. They want
Speaker 3: to present the most challenging championship in the world without
Speaker 3: driving the players crazy and creating a pr crisis for themselves.
Speaker 3: And that is completely understandable, and it's represented in this
Speaker 3: setup this week, which was so successful and so smart
Speaker 3: that I can't help but just tip my cap. Good job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you guys think this was like one of
Speaker 2: the best setups in recent memory? Like I'm having trouble
Speaker 2: thinking of a major championship setup at least over the
Speaker 2: last decade that compares to this. I thought it was phenomenal.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you have the advantage of pretty consistent
Speaker 3: weather through the week, like no weird weather conditions, not
Speaker 3: much wind. It was warm, obviously, as you guys experienced,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't crazy at any point, and so they
Speaker 3: were able to be pretty steady with the way that
Speaker 3: they were maintaining the greens. And they also had the
Speaker 3: advantage of one of the greatest courses in America. And
Speaker 3: that's you know, if you set up Pinehurst number two properly,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be awesome, because this course is awesome.
Speaker 1: Think they could have had a final score of basically
Speaker 1: whatever they wanted. They could have probably gotten it to
Speaker 1: like minus ten would have been probably, like you know,
Speaker 1: if they wanted wanted to make it a little easier.
Speaker 1: I think they could have gotten this thing to wear
Speaker 1: plus five one if they wanted to. And that gives
Speaker 1: you without it being super silly. I think, like a
Speaker 1: couple notes, just a couple of notes. They never used
Speaker 1: a right pin on ten. That was a miss. They
Speaker 1: never used the right pin on eleven.
Speaker 2: That was a miss.
Speaker 3: Oh man, that little front right pocket of that green,
Speaker 3: that's so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on the third. I think that. I mean,
Speaker 1: if we're gonna critique with a fine tooth comb here,
Speaker 1: thirteen was a big miss. As a driveable part four,
Speaker 1: I think there were better options, yep, for drivable fours.
Speaker 1: I thought three was awesome. Three is an awesome drivable four,
Speaker 1: just as an anecdote. I was following ZB on Saturday
Speaker 1: and I was going to the sixth Green and I'm
Speaker 1: walking on the on the pathway behind five to the
Speaker 1: six te and I see Terrell Hatton's fall on the
Speaker 1: path looking up at that backpen, and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: oh boy. And then I walk a little bit further
Speaker 1: there's Tom Kim and I just like stopped. I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be sitting here for a little while.
Speaker 3: I got out your popcorn, and yeah, stayed where you were.
Speaker 1: I mean, that was awesome. I think there's also a
Speaker 1: question of is five a better hole from an uptee.
Speaker 3: I think it's a great hole from any t I
Speaker 3: love it.
Speaker 1: Well, here's here's the point. The only two players really
Speaker 1: were reaching the point of the fairway where it can't,
Speaker 1: and those were Rory and and Bryson.
Speaker 3: Interesting, that is.
Speaker 1: A better, unobjectively better approach shot, no matter what the
Speaker 1: yardage into the hole is. With a hanging downhill lie,
Speaker 1: that is just at or harder shot. I will take
Speaker 1: the flat lie, and I'm sure the data people will
Speaker 1: kill me for this. But if there's trouble to do this,
Speaker 1: if there's trouble short left or all left, and I
Speaker 1: have the choice of a dead flat lie from two
Speaker 1: whatever two fifty two sixty or a hangar from two
Speaker 1: point thirty. I am choosing two fifty to sixty all
Speaker 1: day long. But no pro is going to hit three
Speaker 1: wood off a front of forward t They're always going
Speaker 1: to take that upt And I think you would have
Speaker 1: just seen way more people find left unintentionally. Who was
Speaker 1: the guy that found left twice? The guy that got
Speaker 1: it to the side hill twice? R got it to
Speaker 1: the side hill four times. Yeah, that brought left into
Speaker 1: play because of how far up he was. Nobody else
Speaker 1: was getting up there except for like Bryson a few players.
Speaker 1: So like, I think that was actually a big miss.
Speaker 1: Was that was moving up that that fifth or moving
Speaker 1: back that fifteen, which I think is a new box
Speaker 1: they built it for. They didn't have it in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: And I guess the other way you could get there
Speaker 2: is with firmer fairways too right, I mean, that's firm
Speaker 2: farewell get there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, in the spirit of nitpicks, I
Speaker 3: agree about thirteen. I tweeted about thirteen on Saturday evening saying,
Speaker 3: I hope to God they don't set this up as
Speaker 3: driveable tomorrow because it is such an interesting two shot
Speaker 3: short par four that presents legitimate options for players who
Speaker 3: want to lay up and players who want to push
Speaker 3: it up just short of the green where you might
Speaker 3: have a really really tricky shot from the left side
Speaker 3: of a fairway that is turning on a diagonal there,
Speaker 3: A lot of players chose to lay up. Most players
Speaker 3: chose to lay up, including Bryson. He was sitting there
Speaker 3: contemplating it on Saturday, saying, I might try to take
Speaker 3: out driver here and just blast it up there, but nope,
Speaker 3: I'm going to hit an iron, don't boomy. It was
Speaker 3: great little theater there on the tee, and then he
Speaker 3: dumped it in the bunker on the layup. I mean, Bryson,
Speaker 3: who hits driver everywhere, laid up on that hole because
Speaker 3: it presents an interesting question to players. When the tee
Speaker 3: is back in the three sixty to three eighty range.
Speaker 3: When you make that hole driveable, there's no decision anymore.
Speaker 3: Players are just sort of peppering that green with driver.
Speaker 3: In Bryson's case, Threewood, it didn't give Bryson or Rory
Speaker 3: really anything to think about on Sunday. They knew they
Speaker 3: were going for that green. They figured they would probably
Speaker 3: miss the green. In Bryson's case, he did hold the
Speaker 3: green because he was again hitting three wood. But they
Speaker 3: were fine with the outcomes up there, and there was
Speaker 3: no legitimate decision being made. And that's what I want
Speaker 3: to say about about thirteen basically, But I want to
Speaker 3: transition us into having a more general discussion here, just
Speaker 3: to wrap up getting out of the minutia big picture
Speaker 3: Pinehurst number two as an anchor site. My takeaway here
Speaker 3: is that Pinehurst number two is or could be the
Speaker 3: USGA's Saint Andrew's. And that's not to say that it's
Speaker 3: as great of a course, or that it has as
Speaker 3: much history or as much importance to the history of golf,
Speaker 3: but Pinehurst could be the true anchor site. I have
Speaker 3: no problem with the US Open going there one and
Speaker 3: a half times per decade even now. The aspect of
Speaker 3: the USGA's site selections approach that I do question is
Speaker 3: taking the US Open to Pebble Beach and Oakland with
Speaker 3: almost the same frequency as they do Pinehurst, because to me,
Speaker 3: Pinehurst is the greater and more obvious anchor site. I
Speaker 3: think Pinehurst should have a unique status when it comes
Speaker 3: to hosting US opens that shouldn't be also given to
Speaker 3: other courses, even to courses as iconic and as great
Speaker 3: as Pebble Beach at Oakmont. So what are what you
Speaker 3: think of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, similar takeaways. I think maybe the bigger critique on
Speaker 2: the anchor site. It's not even the anchor site. It's
Speaker 2: just locking up venues for so far out that like,
Speaker 2: maybe that's a bigger problem than anchor site. I've never
Speaker 2: really had an issue with the every five years thing
Speaker 2: with Pinehurst. It honestly feels like a pretty reasonable time
Speaker 2: between championships and the golf course is so good that
Speaker 2: I'll be excited every five years. I think some of
Speaker 2: the something we didn't talk about so far in this
Speaker 2: pod is the way that the tea boxes and the
Speaker 2: greens are close together and the environment that that creates
Speaker 2: where players are watching each other and it's tremendous theater.
Speaker 2: I think when you return to a venue every five years,
Speaker 2: you have the data from the past one. You know
Speaker 2: which pin locations work, you know which firmness levels. We're
Speaker 2: talking about an area of the country with predictable weather.
Speaker 2: It's dry it's going to play well. So of all
Speaker 2: anchor sites they could pick, I think Piners number two
Speaker 2: is awesome and I'm gonna look forward to it every
Speaker 2: five years. I'm not gonna feel like, man, we were
Speaker 2: just here. Five years is a pretty decent amount of time,
Speaker 2: So I'm with it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: To me, I think the thing that I have a
Speaker 1: problem with with anchor sites is I think that it
Speaker 1: cuts against the ethos of the US Open in general.
Speaker 1: America or the United States is the country with the
Speaker 1: most great golf courses in the world. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of great golf courses in a number of countries,
Speaker 1: but no other country has the sheer number of great
Speaker 1: golf courses and the diversity of great golf courses, types
Speaker 1: of golf courses and top you know where they are
Speaker 1: locales like that, that rich diversity of different areas of
Speaker 1: the country. To me, the issue when I zoom out
Speaker 1: and look at it is just between Pinehurst and Pebble.
Speaker 1: Of of US opens every ten years, are going to
Speaker 1: two places, And you know, I think Pebble has a
Speaker 1: lot of great history. It's revered, it is a spectacular
Speaker 1: place to watch golf. It's a spectacular place to visit
Speaker 1: for the scenery. I think the golf course. If I
Speaker 1: was looking at if I was ranking golf courses in
Speaker 1: terms of the way they test modern players, I would
Speaker 1: put it near the bottom of the golf courses on
Speaker 1: the that are that it's associated with. With this list
Speaker 1: of US Open candidates, not to mention, June is just
Speaker 1: a bad time to be there. You're gonna be it's
Speaker 1: gonna be foggy, and I think so, I think my
Speaker 1: issue is just the sheer quantity of them. I did
Speaker 1: an exercise before this tournament where I kind of listed
Speaker 1: out like courses that could host across the country and
Speaker 1: like taking out this really a lot of the South
Speaker 1: because of just the heat of June. I got to
Speaker 1: like nineteen golf courses that were great hosts all across
Speaker 1: the country, and to me to have between you know,
Speaker 1: let's just say Oakmonts once every ten years, the fifty
Speaker 1: percent of the US Opens like it just it's not
Speaker 1: representative of the country overall as a as a golf place.
Speaker 1: And that's what this tournament should be about. It's the
Speaker 1: United States Open. The United States Open each year should
Speaker 1: be the best players in the world taking on one
Speaker 1: of the greatest golf courses in the United States in
Speaker 1: different areas that are different styles. I'm okay with like
Speaker 1: hack it out US opens every once in a while.
Speaker 1: I think it'd be a mistake if pinehert if we
Speaker 1: just hosted everyone at Pinehurst, it would reward certain types
Speaker 1: of players. The event should thrive on its diversity, its openness,
Speaker 1: and the great golf in America. That should be the
Speaker 1: core tenants of the tournament. And I think like I'm
Speaker 1: okay with Pinehurst being there regularly, especially with the USGA
Speaker 1: now headquartered there. I was like floored with overall the
Speaker 1: whole setup. I thought it was really great, But I
Speaker 1: have a problem with all the other ones that have
Speaker 1: so many It just it has it really limits the
Speaker 1: amount of variety in this championship, which should be a
Speaker 1: core tenant of the championship because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: variety in American golf.
Speaker 3: I think we're aligned with this. It sounds like if
Speaker 3: you're okay with Pinehurst hosting on a regular basis because
Speaker 3: of its association with the USGA and becase because of
Speaker 3: its excellence through and through as a championship test and
Speaker 3: as a tournament venue for spectators, for TV for everything.
Speaker 3: I think it sounds like we agree. I also like
Speaker 3: the general idea of making the United States Open a
Speaker 3: truly United States tournament where you go all over the
Speaker 3: country and see all the great courses that this country
Speaker 3: has to offer. The only problem with that. It's a
Speaker 3: great idea and concept. In practice, what you get sometimes
Speaker 3: is an LACC type venue, wonderful golf course. But this
Speaker 3: tournament this year blew it out of the water in
Speaker 3: terms of the on site vibe, excitement, and sense of
Speaker 3: real stature and importance that became really, really clear. I
Speaker 3: think La North is a wonderful, wonderful championship golf course
Speaker 3: and it and it didn't get its due last year
Speaker 3: during the US Open, but it did not thrive as
Speaker 3: an on site spectator experience, and that came through on
Speaker 3: the telecast and it affected the entire championship. And so
Speaker 3: I think that the issue with going to many many
Speaker 3: different courses is that these days so few courses can
Speaker 3: host the way that Pinehurst Number two hosts, and you
Speaker 3: have a lot of courses that can kind of do it,
Speaker 3: but might not get all the way there like LACC.
Speaker 1: That's it's a fair, fair critique. I think, but I
Speaker 1: think it's more important to It's one of the things
Speaker 1: that makes the tournament so unique. Like, was what was
Speaker 1: the most times that that Jack Nicholas played a repeat course?
Speaker 1: And is a US Open career. I don't have it
Speaker 1: in front of me, but I can't imagine that. You know,
Speaker 1: in a twenty year career, you could play a course
Speaker 1: four times, So I don't think that would happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the huge things that has
Speaker 3: changed with modern championship golf is the needs that commercial
Speaker 3: must meet. Yeah, commercial needs, hospitality needs, infrastructural needs. I mean,
Speaker 3: the US Open in the nineteen twenties could go any
Speaker 3: old place, you know, it didn't matter. They could just
Speaker 3: go to the best golf courses. They didn't worry about it.
Speaker 3: But the need for a RODA and for a tighter
Speaker 3: RODA has really started to come to the fore in
Speaker 3: the past several years. Even this has been a fairly
Speaker 3: recent trend that the championships have gotten to a size
Speaker 3: and a complexity that you just need venues with some
Speaker 3: experience hosting this kind of stuff. But like you, I
Speaker 3: do hope they continue to try to keep the road afresh,
Speaker 3: to bring in fresh blood, because otherwise the National Championship
Speaker 3: starts to feel a little bit more stale and that's
Speaker 3: a big danger for it.
Speaker 1: Oh well, breaking news, Rory's not playing the Travelers.
Speaker 3: There's a statement on Twitter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess we're gonna have to wait to
Speaker 2: find out if you can withstand the ultimate pressure until
Speaker 2: another event.
Speaker 3: Huh, the ultimate pressure of the Travelers Championship of.
Speaker 2: A signature event.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hey, listen, I am going to defend the Travelers
Speaker 3: Championship until my dying breath. That's a great tournament in
Speaker 3: any case. Yes, Rory's Rory's not coming back next week,
Speaker 3: and we can kind of understand why that might be
Speaker 3: the case. All Right, guys, thank you for coming on
Speaker 3: the pod. Thank you Joseph, Thank you Andy. We'll do
Speaker 3: it again after the Open Championship in a few weeks.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 3: This episode of the Friday Golf Podcast was produced by
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