WEBVTT - Discussing Palestine and Israel w/ Deevee Kashi 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:08.200 Al Zone Media. 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.800 Hello, everybody, Welcome to it could happen here. This is 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:16.040 Sharene and I am so happy to be joined by 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:18.800 my guest today. I've been so excited to speak to him. 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.360 I am joined by dB Kashi. He is a pro 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.319 palsy and activist from New York and Israel. And there's 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:27.680 just a lot of stuff I want to talk to 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:28.040 you about. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.800 So welcome, pleasure to be here. Great to meet you, Saren. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.479 I want to start with just some background for the 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.280 audience to just like kind of get to know where 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.360 the perspective you're speaking from. Can you tell me a 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.760 little bit about your family history and where you grew 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:42.519 up and where your parents are from and all of that. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:49.400 Sure, my parents were both born in Israel, and they, 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.400 like many Israelis, moved to New York City in the 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:58.880 eighties and had myself and my two siblings. And as 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.920 my grandparents were getting older, to whom we were very close, 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.959 my mom decided to move back to Tel Aviv when 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.319 I was in two thousand, so right before the Second Intifada, 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:19.080 And so when I was thirteen eighth grade, I moved 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.080 to Tel Aviv for the first time. And you know, 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.240 obviously I was very familiar with it. I visit every summer, 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.039 and you know, grew up in our grandparents' house, both 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:36.960 of whom were Iraqi Jews who immigrated to Israel in 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.840 the early fifties. And so yeah, so when I moved 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:46.560 there in eighth grade, I was completely pretty much a 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.640 shock in terms of what I was used to in 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.480 New York. Obviously, I had friends from many different walks 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:57.240 of life, many different backgrounds here. I was very used 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.360 to that, right, I think grew up in you know, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.120 a very staunch Jewish community. I had Jewish friends, but 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:08.040 I didn't solely have Jewish friends, and so that that's 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.920 what I loved, That's what I embraced. But when I 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.119 moved to Israel, it was very jarring. You know, I'd 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.320 studied in Hebrew for the first time, and you know, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:23.480 everything that we studied in school was pertaining to the 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:28.640 Jewish identity. So every kind of history class, you know, 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.320 you'd study the Roman Empire and the Jewish people, you'd 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.560 study about you know, ancient Greece and the Jewish people, 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:38.480 and that's okay to learn about Jewish identity, but intertwining 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:43.320 it with every aspect of the school curriculum and really 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.120 thinking about the persecure really kind of hammering home this 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:53.200 notion of persecution, really kind of understanding how you know, 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.520 and again I think it's important to understand your history 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.680 and history in general, but I think that kind of 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:07.519 introducing this notion of persecution as a tactic to retraumatize 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:12.720 people that aren't directly experiencing the trauma. Right. So, everyone 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.520 in the world learns about the Holocaust, but did you 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.960 know that in Israel, Holocaust Remembrance Day isn't on the 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.840 same day as the rest of the world's Holocaust Remembrance 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.400 Day because they want to own their own kind of 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.720 version of the Holocaust Remembrance Day, Right, And so you know, 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.799 when you think about the Holocaust, you think about other Holocausts, 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:37.240 other genocides that have happened, and Israel's failure to recognize 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.400 those genocides, like the Armenian genocide, right, and the fact 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.960 that you know, many people don't know, but you know, 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:49.080 throughout history Israel has armed genocidal forces with Israeli made 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:56.760 weapons to you know, support imperialist motives and colonialist powers 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.560 around the world. So you know, even even now with 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:04.240 what's happening in Armenia with the Iserabai Johnny's right, Israel 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.480 is on the wrong side of that equation, right, And 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:12.080 so it's never been about standing with the side of 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.640 the oppressed. For Israel, it's never been about, you know, 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.680 ensuring that what happens when they say never again, actually 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.520 never again, never happens again to anyone around the world. Right. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:31.479 Think about their policies, the racist policies around refugees, right. 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.159 I think people don't understand, right, I have a very 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:41.479 unique perspective because I understand kind of the minds of 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.800 the colonizers. I can humanize the colonizers. I think there's 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.960 a dangerous kind of maybe thinking about things from a 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.080 bit of a different angle than kind of people are 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.719 used to, and also bringing it back to the events 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.000 of the last ten days or eleven days at this point, 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.520 I think, you know, I've always kind of looked at 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:05.039 and identified with the Palestinian struggle, right, And I've always 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:10.720 seen it as a human rights struggle, right, And you know, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:16.200 as such, and as many well regarded activists and thinkers 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.920 and intellectuals have always talked about the unification of all 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.600 the struggles of the oppress. And that's always, always arrived 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.960 at the identification with this struggle for the Palestinian people. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:33.880 I've also felt, you know, by virtue of this self, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:39.040 this imposed identity of you know, Israeli, I've always felt 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.080 directly responsible for the oppression of the Palestinian people, even 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:48.160 though I've never done anything myself to champion or perpetuate 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.200 that oppression. I've always worked against it from a very 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:55.200 very young age. Now people always ask me, you know, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.839 kind of annoying questions like, you know, why do you 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.080 care so much about the power Estinians when so many 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.440 people in the world are suffering? And the answer to 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.320 that question is I care about all suffering. But this 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.520 is something that the government that supposedly represents me, that 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:17.120 the entity that supposedly represents me is directly perpetrating. And frankly, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.200 after going to many protests in New York and in 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:25.400 Israel itself, I've realized that this is the most important 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:29.880 human rights struggle of our generation, for sure, but of 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:35.480 modern times because it stands for all of it's essentially 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.920 the last beacon of direct colonialism. Right, we all know 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.240 how kind of neocolonialism works. I mean, maybe we do 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:49.279 what we don't, but neocolonialism through you know, different coupitist structures. Right, 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:55.920 America has been able to perpetrate neocolonialism without actually having 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:01.320 to occupy other people, you know, save for Iraq for 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.960 almost twenty years, but or fifteen years or whatever, it 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:09.960 was a very long time. But Israel is directly and 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.560 physically occupying on other people, and they have been for 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.560 the last seventy five years, right, officially for the last 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:22.680 seventy five years. And that's been a constant, Right. It's not, hey, 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.960 you know, here's a country and let's you know, fight, 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.280 Let's continue our kind of battle in that way it's 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.320 been It's always been. If you if you're a scholar 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:38.000 of Israeli history, of Zionist history, you always you start 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.760 understanding that the goal was to take over all of 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.560 Judaea and Samara, Right, And that's kind of how the 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:49.280 settler government that Netanyahu has in power has been speaking 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:54.640 for years. Right. I'm really upset and really kind of 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:59.240 frustrated by the way that the Western media has been 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.160 portraying what's happening over the last eleven days. Because even 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.200 Israeli media Halitz, which is an Israeli newspaper, which is 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.840 very prominent one right isn't portraying it the way that 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:14.640 the Western media is portraying it. Right, they're criticizing the Netanyahu. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.840 There's so many people in Israel that are scared, right, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.200 all the leftists are scared. They're being persecuted. They're signal 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.720 groups doxing friends of mine, people literally fighting for human rights, 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:32.320 they're doxing them. Islaelfrai, he's an Orthodox reporter that's that's 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.280 been staunchly pro Palestinian and he's a very prominent member 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:40.640 of the press. Angry mob of right winging extremists try 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:42.640 to knock down his door the other day and he 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.880 had to escape from the back door and run away, 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.320 so they don't, you know, potentially kill him, right, And 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.080 so these voices are being silenced in Israel. No one 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.800 is talking about that. Everyone in the West is beating 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.640 the drums of war. The media is supporting that. We've 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.679 seen on the kind of a microw but tragic level, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.760 what happened to that six year old kid that was 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.400 stobbed to death by someone just because of the anti Islamic, 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.480 anti Palestinian rhetoric that's being perpetrated. And so everyone's kind 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.720 of losing their shit as all of a sudden, everyone's 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.040 saying the same thing because everyone is being pushed to 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:23.440 justify this war. But people are starting to wake up, right, 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.760 the UN's woken up in certain very very slowly. People 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.760 are starting to wake up because they're seeing that genocide 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.319 is actually being committed, and so you can't throw your 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.640 full weight behind genocide. But they're walking it back too slowly. 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.000 And the people that I'm disappointed by are people that 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:45.040 are supposedly smart, spewing complete nonsense rhetoric about two sides. Right. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.320 I struggled, Right, this is important. I struggled. I know 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.440 people who were killed in the Hamas attack personally and 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.000 intimately know them. Right. You know my ex girlfriend's best 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.440 friend was killed, right, She's we've hung out many, many, 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.760 many times. She was a very sweet, very kind person. 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:07.640 We know an activist who was literally because people don't understand, 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.560 and this is for a lot of the kind of 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.800 pro Palestinians that have that. And I completely empathize, and 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.320 I understand why people believe what they believe. Believe me, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.240 but this is for a lot of the pro Palestinians 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.000 that you know. Immediately called all of them settlers, right. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.640 And I think it's important to distinguish because if there's 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:27.559 ever going to be a path forward in this mess, 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:34.000 we have to offer a new rhetoric that deconstructs the 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:39.080 nationalist ideologies. Okay, I don't put the Palestinian flag or 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.199 say free Palestine, which I do as a nationalist ideology. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:48.000 I say that as a deconstruction of nationalism as as 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.320 as a call to freedom for all, right, though oppressed, 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:56.440 as well as the oppressor. Right. If you actually read 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:02.120 everyone's quoting, everyone's quoting Phenen, right, everyone's quoting all these revolutionaries, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.040 if you actually read the material that they said. Chae 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.760 Gavari even said the true revolutionary is guided by deep 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.560 with deep feelings of love in their heart. And he 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.120 said this at the risk of sounding absurd. He said 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:20.360 that direct quote the people perpetuating in Israel. I can 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.760 say this from a first ten account. I know very 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:28.120 good people that are guided by nationalists and fascist ideologies. However, 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:33.319 they've been manipulated, they've been lied to, They're fed propaganda 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.640 twenty four to seven through the news and the sentiment 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.800 in Israel right now, and I can tell you this, 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.040 I'm getting messages from people they think everyone is trying 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.280 to kill Jews. That's what they believe, that's what they've 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.080 been told. They think this is armageddon for the Jewish people. 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.280 That's what the media narrative is in Israel. Okay, in 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.920 spite of the fact that there are many people that 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.720 are against what's happening, there are many people that directly 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.560 blame Netanyahu this, but they're being scared to believe that 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.920 they're being going to be attacked on all fronts, and 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:09.160 they have to do everything they can to neutralize the threats. Okay, 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.280 that is that is the survival kind of that. That 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.240 is a fact. Does that mean that every single person 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.439 in Israel is a terrible human being as evil as 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.320 some people say. No, that is not true at all. Right, 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.319 And my point is, and what a lot of the 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.120 revolutionaries said, right, Palo Freer in the Pedagogy of the 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:32.320 Oppressed said, in the process of dehumanization, the oppressor dehumanizes himself. 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.000 Putting that aside, though, I think that you know, for me, 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.080 I see I know people that died. It was very 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:41.960 difficult for me to post in the first two days. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.760 I think there were some problematic justifications for the massacre 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.640 that didn't sit well with me because I'm a humanist. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.720 But in the same token, right, I think that I 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:59.880 understand the context. I think it behooves us to understand 0:12:59.920 --> 0:13:03.400 the context. Right. There's a really famous quote. I forget 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.840 who said it, but if you started the clock or 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:12.480 started looking at kind of the colonization in America from 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.600 when the Native Americans started shooting the arrows, you think 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.520 that the Native Americans were the aggressives. Right. If you 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:23.520 started looking at, you know, the colonization of Algeria when 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.719 the Alga, when the local population started rebelling, you think 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.560 that they were the aggressives. Right. And that's not to 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.040 say in the same breath that terrible things happened to 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.960 amazing people there. Right. What people don't know, and a 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.760 lot of the propolsting movement doesn't know, is that many 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.880 of the people living in the area on Gazas are 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:50.960 actually activists, like very anti Zionist activists. Right that many 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.120 of the testimonies of the families of the of those 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:59.080 activists are saying to stop the genocide, that it's not 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.680 going to bring back their friends, their family members. Those 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.120 are the people that were a lot of whom were 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.040 killed in the attacks because that's where they live, they 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.960 work with, you know, organizations at GAZA like acknowledge that, right, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.160 understand the complexity saying hey, you guys are all settlers. 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.680 That's just dumb. It's not factually true. Their grandparents were, 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.080 their great grandparents were one hundred percent. But now their 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.960 generations and generations of people, right, just like in America, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.120 their generations and generations of people that descended, Are they 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.800 to be held accountable for the actions of their ancestors? 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.240 Doesn't make any sense. They should be held accountable for 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.320 actions that they take now, for sure, right, holding your 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.280 government accountable, you know, thinking about an actual solution to 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.760 this terrible situation that one hundred percent people should be 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.600 held accountable for. But to call them settlers as a 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.840 justification for their deaths is something that I will never do, right, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.120 and I don't think it helps the strugg Right, I 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.560 think it's important to say and then simultaneously also say, 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.240 did you guys know that Israel played a very major 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:12.480 role in establishing the Kammas, Like, don't be stupid, open 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.040 a history book, see what happened, right, understand, don't just 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.720 be quick to call and quick to say both sides. 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.640 It's not a both side situation. Even though the aggression 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.080 was terrible, those are those two things can be true. 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:29.040 It's a devastating, tragic event, right, and I know many 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.240 great people that were killed in it. But in the 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.840 same breath, we have to remember what caused it. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:35.840 Yeah. Context is everything. 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.880 Right, context is everything. Israel funded the Kamas BB has 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.920 direct quotes in Israeli newspapers saying we have to fund 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.560 the Hamas in order for is Palestinians never to have 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.440 a state. He directly said that how do you guys 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.760 ignore these statements. They've been very bib has been very 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.360 clear as to what is going to happen and what 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.600 he's trying to accomplish. And then on top of that, 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:03.160 to compound things, the settlers in his government right now, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:09.119 Isal Bengvill and Smooch are two settlers. They literally are settlers, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.000 like in accordance to the national law, they're considered settlers, okay, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.320 illegal settlers, and they're the second and third most powerful 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.440 people in Israel. Okay. I don't think people understand or know, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.360 but those two guys, there's a there's a famous rabbi 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:33.120 okay in Jerusalem. He's an extremist fundamentalist rabbi, Jewish fundamentalist rabbi. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.520 What he's been calling for for a long time, Ka 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.680 sadaka is Kahana was right. He was a very fascist 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.920 rabbi that was basically calling for the extermination of all Arabs. 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.280 And and they're basically they're called kahanistem and that's it's 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.800 basically what the left in Israel used to call this government. 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.560 Man tash Khanistim means government of Kahanists. Okay, that is 0:16:55.600 --> 0:17:00.280 what that's who's running the country. And this rabbi has 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.680 been calling for in a biblical sense. And we all 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:07.400 know when people have an utmost you know, devotion to religion, 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.719 that guides them right, not our world. Our world does 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.560 not guide them. The religious texts and the religious leaders 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.480 are the ones who tell them what is right and 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.399 what is wrong right in religious fundamentalism. And so what 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.680 this rabbi has been calling for for years has been 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:28.600 a war to end all wars. Okay, that is what 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.800 he's been telling them. That is what they've been operating under. Okay, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.160 their allegiances are to him, not to the Israeli people 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.159 like literally to that ideology. And so they're in the 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.880 government right now. Over the last year, they've been essentially 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:51.240 adding illegal settlements at a rapid rate, emboldening and empowering 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:56.960 settlers to commit violence that we haven't seen in many, 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.280 many years. Levels of violence we haven't been seen in 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.680 many many years, even before this latest aggression. I'm talking 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.280 about over the last twelve months. And the biggest most 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.320 annoying thing that I hear from Westerners that think they understand, right, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.520 they're like, oh, yeah, we really care about Palestinians. But 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:18.720 Hamas has to go two things to that. One, the 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.080 fact that there are Palestinians on the West Bank and 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.800 the Palestinians in Gaza doesn't mean they're not the same people. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.800 They're Palestinians in forty eight as well. They feel deep 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.880 feelings of solidarity because they're all oppressed in different ways. Right, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.440 It's solidarity under this got under this Grand zionis oppression 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:43.520 that they experience. And so I think that it's a 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:48.600 fallacy that it was an unprovoked attack. It's a fallacy, right, 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.639 it's not the case. The fact that Aleksa kept getting 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.360 bombarded by settlers on purpose, on purpose, I don't put 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.240 it back like they did this to get a provocation. 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.800 They've been evoking to get the retaliation for Hamas. They've 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:04.880 been doing this for years. This is nothing new, Right, 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.160 every time Ramas shot rockets over the last five years 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:11.240 is because Israel was attacking Alexa right right after Ramadan 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.720 if you remember, or during Ramadan. Sorry, And so every 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.080 time a barage of rockets came in right after that 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.800 barrage of rockets because Hamas wanted to show that someone 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.480 is sticking up for them. But I'm just saying you 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.960 have to understand the context. When you're in a blockade, 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.560 when you're living in a concentration camp, worse than a 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:34.680 concentration camp, frankly, right, every electricity is controlled, water is controlled, 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.640 food is controlled. You're not able to leave, right, You're 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.919 not able to freaking leave when you want. You're not 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.720 able to come when you want, not able to A 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.879 sixty kilometer strip of land is the most densely populated 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:52.800 strip of land in the entire world. Depression is the highest, 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.720 the highest rates of depression. I think the highest rates 0:19:55.720 --> 0:20:00.720 of child suicide are in Gaza. Okay, when you're living 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.840 under those conditions, I have no idea how you're spoil 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.320 I have no idea what that would feel like, So 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.200 how can I judge anyone any response to that? Right 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:12.879 in the same breath, I can also say it's a 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.760 tragic thing that innocent people died, and they're innocent people, 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.480 And I think it's important to hold that complexity. Also 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.159 for the Palestinian cause. I think it's important to not 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.840 lose sight of our humanity in criticizing the grave injustices 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.199 that Israel has committed and putting the blame squarely on 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.119 Israel's shoulders that Hamas exists. 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:37.359 Yeah, I think that's something I keep coming back to 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.400 is whenever someone is just all about condemning Hamas, which 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.560 is like, yes, as you mentioned, like innocent people shouldn't 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.040 have died, But I blame all the violence that's happening 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:52.400 in Israel on Israel. Like it's not, yeah, you can't 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.919 just start like at a slave revolt as the beginning 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.840 of history of slavery. It's like, no, actually exactly, they 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.800 did that for a reason and they had no other choice. 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.320 And I mean for Palestinians, I think, like, what's the 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.360 biggest context that's missing is like they've tried everything. It's 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:15.359 not their first choice to kill people that didn't deserve 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.640 it. It's I think I think that's what's been really annoying 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.920 with the the people that have chosen to spoke to 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.880 speak out, that have never spoken out before. They are 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.399 so narrow in their view of this that it's so 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:31.920 damaging because they have so many follow werds, or they're 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.359 talking about the wrong things, and all of those things 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:40.760 like kind of perpetuate a really dangerous environment where like 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:42.480 a six year old kid can get stabbed to death, 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.600 or I don't know. I agree with everything you said, 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.600 and I really appreciate you saying all those things before 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.840 I forget. We're gonna take our first break, so don't 0:21:51.840 --> 0:22:05.920 go anywhere and we're back. Something you mentioned early on 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.760 that I have been thinking about and getting really getting 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:13.879 really angry about is why people are surprised or like 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.160 unexpecting you to speak out about Palestinians if you are 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.280 not a Palestinian. I am not a Palestinian. I'm Syrian, 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.840 and I am extremely vocal about the Palestinian cause and 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.800 the Palestine. I've always been one hundred percent free Palestine 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:33.080 till I die. And it's almost like surprising to people, 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:35.160 like why are you so worked up like why aren't 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.080 you so worked up like that? That's what really gets 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:42.560 me is your humanity and care. It shouldn't be contingent 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.359 on your identity if you actually give a shit. And 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:47.920 I think that's what I really want to like relate 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:52.080 to people, is this is not the Palestinian's struggle solely 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.439 for themselves, Like this is a struggle for all. Like 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:59.240 if this genocide obliterates the Palestinian people, that's on humanity shoulders. 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:03.480 That's not that is so indicative of how depraved humans 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:08.560 have become. It's just so upsetting. It's just a complete obliteration. 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.480 There has been videos of settlers saying they want to 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:16.080 flattened the whole thing, make it a parking lot. I mean, 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:17.760 I don't even have to tell you what like actual 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:21.080 media and like politicians have been saying because it's like atrocious. 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:23.600 But I think that's what I want to relate to 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:25.800 people is like if you're not if you don't care, 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.040 examine that, because that is troubling to me, if you 0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:33.400 don't care about actual genocide. And maybe that word has 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.640 been used too much to like make people give a shit, 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.760 but it really makes me question people's humanity when they 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.160 are able to kind of just like shrug it off 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:43.960 and continue about their day. 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.840 I've been practicing being hopeful. I think it's really important, 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:55.240 especially in times like these, to be hopeful, because without hope, 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:59.960 and it sounds cheesy, but it's true, we're not empowered, right, 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:06.600 were not able to act. And I think what's exciting, 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:12.760 what's I guess heartening to me is actually the people's 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:18.720 response to what's happening. Yes, there are many influencers and 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:22.640 celebrities that posted the wrong thing, I'm also seeing many 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:26.240 that posted the right thing. I'm also seeing many people 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:28.879 that I'm surprised by. I'm seeing many people that I 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:34.880 wasn't surprised by posting the wrong thing, frankly. But I'm 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:40.919 also seeing many people white people, you know, black people, right, like, 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:44.440 people of all kinds that are disconnected, you know, from 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.880 an identity perspective to the posting people doing so much 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:54.560 showing up. I went to the I saw images from 0:24:54.600 --> 0:25:00.280 the protest in the other day, and there are I'm 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:02.720 not talking about the Jewish protest, which was amazing, right, 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:05.359 what JVP did with if not now, in front of 0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:10.080 Chuck Schumer's house was incredible, Right, That's that's solidarity. That's 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:14.000 that's that's real, right, That's that's that's that's humanity, right, 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:17.800 that's what humanity should be. That's real solidarity. I'm talking 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:20.720 about the protests though, that was Palestinian lad in the midtown, 0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:25.399 and I saw tons of Jews there, m hm. And 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:29.040 I'm not talking about the Sutmar anti Zionist, you know 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:31.800 Hasidic Jews. Those are great, right, and they're they're helpful. 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:35.080 I'm talking about like regular regular ass Jews, right, like me, right, 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:38.879 people like not even wearing yamaicas, like people with you know, 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:42.399 small yamicas that aren't like you know, Hasidic or anything, 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:48.439 holding up signs to help liberate the Palestinian people. In 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.640