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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, everybody, Welcome to it could happen here. This is

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Speaker 2: Sharene and I am so happy to be joined by

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Speaker 2: my guest today. I've been so excited to speak to him.

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Speaker 2: I am joined by dB Kashi. He is a pro

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Speaker 2: palsy and activist from New York and Israel. And there's

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Speaker 2: just a lot of stuff I want to talk to

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Speaker 2: you about.

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Speaker 1: So welcome, pleasure to be here. Great to meet you, Saren.

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Speaker 2: I want to start with just some background for the

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Speaker 2: audience to just like kind of get to know where

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Speaker 2: the perspective you're speaking from. Can you tell me a

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Speaker 2: little bit about your family history and where you grew

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Speaker 2: up and where your parents are from and all of that.

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Speaker 1: Sure, my parents were both born in Israel, and they,

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Speaker 1: like many Israelis, moved to New York City in the

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Speaker 1: eighties and had myself and my two siblings. And as

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Speaker 1: my grandparents were getting older, to whom we were very close,

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Speaker 1: my mom decided to move back to Tel Aviv when

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Speaker 1: I was in two thousand, so right before the Second Intifada,

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Speaker 1: And so when I was thirteen eighth grade, I moved

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Speaker 1: to Tel Aviv for the first time. And you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously I was very familiar with it. I visit every summer,

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Speaker 1: and you know, grew up in our grandparents' house, both

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Speaker 1: of whom were Iraqi Jews who immigrated to Israel in

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Speaker 1: the early fifties. And so yeah, so when I moved

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Speaker 1: there in eighth grade, I was completely pretty much a

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Speaker 1: shock in terms of what I was used to in

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Speaker 1: New York. Obviously, I had friends from many different walks

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Speaker 1: of life, many different backgrounds here. I was very used

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Speaker 1: to that, right, I think grew up in you know,

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Speaker 1: a very staunch Jewish community. I had Jewish friends, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't solely have Jewish friends, and so that that's

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Speaker 1: what I loved, That's what I embraced. But when I

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Speaker 1: moved to Israel, it was very jarring. You know, I'd

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Speaker 1: studied in Hebrew for the first time, and you know,

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Speaker 1: everything that we studied in school was pertaining to the

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Speaker 1: Jewish identity. So every kind of history class, you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd study the Roman Empire and the Jewish people, you'd

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Speaker 1: study about you know, ancient Greece and the Jewish people,

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Speaker 1: and that's okay to learn about Jewish identity, but intertwining

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Speaker 1: it with every aspect of the school curriculum and really

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Speaker 1: thinking about the persecure really kind of hammering home this

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Speaker 1: notion of persecution, really kind of understanding how you know,

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Speaker 1: and again I think it's important to understand your history

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Speaker 1: and history in general, but I think that kind of

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Speaker 1: introducing this notion of persecution as a tactic to retraumatize

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Speaker 1: people that aren't directly experiencing the trauma. Right. So, everyone

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Speaker 1: in the world learns about the Holocaust, but did you

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Speaker 1: know that in Israel, Holocaust Remembrance Day isn't on the

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Speaker 1: same day as the rest of the world's Holocaust Remembrance

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Speaker 1: Day because they want to own their own kind of

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Speaker 1: version of the Holocaust Remembrance Day, Right, And so you know,

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Speaker 1: when you think about the Holocaust, you think about other Holocausts,

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Speaker 1: other genocides that have happened, and Israel's failure to recognize

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Speaker 1: those genocides, like the Armenian genocide, right, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that you know, many people don't know, but you know,

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Speaker 1: throughout history Israel has armed genocidal forces with Israeli made

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Speaker 1: weapons to you know, support imperialist motives and colonialist powers

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Speaker 1: around the world. So you know, even even now with

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Speaker 1: what's happening in Armenia with the Iserabai Johnny's right, Israel

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Speaker 1: is on the wrong side of that equation, right, And

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Speaker 1: so it's never been about standing with the side of

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Speaker 1: the oppressed. For Israel, it's never been about, you know,

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Speaker 1: ensuring that what happens when they say never again, actually

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Speaker 1: never again, never happens again to anyone around the world. Right.

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Speaker 1: Think about their policies, the racist policies around refugees, right.

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Speaker 1: I think people don't understand, right, I have a very

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Speaker 1: unique perspective because I understand kind of the minds of

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Speaker 1: the colonizers. I can humanize the colonizers. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a dangerous kind of maybe thinking about things from a

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Speaker 1: bit of a different angle than kind of people are

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Speaker 1: used to, and also bringing it back to the events

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Speaker 1: of the last ten days or eleven days at this point,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, I've always kind of looked at

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Speaker 1: and identified with the Palestinian struggle, right, And I've always

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Speaker 1: seen it as a human rights struggle, right, And you know,

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Speaker 1: as such, and as many well regarded activists and thinkers

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Speaker 1: and intellectuals have always talked about the unification of all

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Speaker 1: the struggles of the oppress. And that's always, always arrived

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Speaker 1: at the identification with this struggle for the Palestinian people.

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Speaker 1: I've also felt, you know, by virtue of this self,

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Speaker 1: this imposed identity of you know, Israeli, I've always felt

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Speaker 1: directly responsible for the oppression of the Palestinian people, even

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Speaker 1: though I've never done anything myself to champion or perpetuate

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Speaker 1: that oppression. I've always worked against it from a very

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Speaker 1: very young age. Now people always ask me, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of annoying questions like, you know, why do you

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Speaker 1: care so much about the power Estinians when so many

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Speaker 1: people in the world are suffering? And the answer to

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Speaker 1: that question is I care about all suffering. But this

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Speaker 1: is something that the government that supposedly represents me, that

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Speaker 1: the entity that supposedly represents me is directly perpetrating. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: after going to many protests in New York and in

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Speaker 1: Israel itself, I've realized that this is the most important

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Speaker 1: human rights struggle of our generation, for sure, but of

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Speaker 1: modern times because it stands for all of it's essentially

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Speaker 1: the last beacon of direct colonialism. Right, we all know

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Speaker 1: how kind of neocolonialism works. I mean, maybe we do

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Speaker 1: what we don't, but neocolonialism through you know, different coupitist structures. Right,

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Speaker 1: America has been able to perpetrate neocolonialism without actually having

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Speaker 1: to occupy other people, you know, save for Iraq for

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Speaker 1: almost twenty years, but or fifteen years or whatever, it

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Speaker 1: was a very long time. But Israel is directly and

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Speaker 1: physically occupying on other people, and they have been for

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Speaker 1: the last seventy five years, right, officially for the last

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Speaker 1: seventy five years. And that's been a constant, Right. It's not, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, here's a country and let's you know, fight,

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Speaker 1: Let's continue our kind of battle in that way it's

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Speaker 1: been It's always been. If you if you're a scholar

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Speaker 1: of Israeli history, of Zionist history, you always you start

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Speaker 1: understanding that the goal was to take over all of

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Speaker 1: Judaea and Samara, Right, And that's kind of how the

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Speaker 1: settler government that Netanyahu has in power has been speaking

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Speaker 1: for years. Right. I'm really upset and really kind of

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Speaker 1: frustrated by the way that the Western media has been

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Speaker 1: portraying what's happening over the last eleven days. Because even

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Speaker 1: Israeli media Halitz, which is an Israeli newspaper, which is

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Speaker 1: very prominent one right isn't portraying it the way that

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Speaker 1: the Western media is portraying it. Right, they're criticizing the Netanyahu.

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Speaker 1: There's so many people in Israel that are scared, right,

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Speaker 1: all the leftists are scared. They're being persecuted. They're signal

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Speaker 1: groups doxing friends of mine, people literally fighting for human rights,

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Speaker 1: they're doxing them. Islaelfrai, he's an Orthodox reporter that's that's

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Speaker 1: been staunchly pro Palestinian and he's a very prominent member

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Speaker 1: of the press. Angry mob of right winging extremists try

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Speaker 1: to knock down his door the other day and he

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Speaker 1: had to escape from the back door and run away,

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Speaker 1: so they don't, you know, potentially kill him, right, And

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Speaker 1: so these voices are being silenced in Israel. No one

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Speaker 1: is talking about that. Everyone in the West is beating

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Speaker 1: the drums of war. The media is supporting that. We've

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Speaker 1: seen on the kind of a microw but tragic level,

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Speaker 1: what happened to that six year old kid that was

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Speaker 1: stobbed to death by someone just because of the anti Islamic,

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Speaker 1: anti Palestinian rhetoric that's being perpetrated. And so everyone's kind

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Speaker 1: of losing their shit as all of a sudden, everyone's

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Speaker 1: saying the same thing because everyone is being pushed to

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Speaker 1: justify this war. But people are starting to wake up, right,

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Speaker 1: the UN's woken up in certain very very slowly. People

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Speaker 1: are starting to wake up because they're seeing that genocide

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Speaker 1: is actually being committed, and so you can't throw your

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Speaker 1: full weight behind genocide. But they're walking it back too slowly.

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Speaker 1: And the people that I'm disappointed by are people that

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Speaker 1: are supposedly smart, spewing complete nonsense rhetoric about two sides. Right.

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Speaker 1: I struggled, Right, this is important. I struggled. I know

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Speaker 1: people who were killed in the Hamas attack personally and

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Speaker 1: intimately know them. Right. You know my ex girlfriend's best

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Speaker 1: friend was killed, right, She's we've hung out many, many,

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Speaker 1: many times. She was a very sweet, very kind person.

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Speaker 1: We know an activist who was literally because people don't understand,

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Speaker 1: and this is for a lot of the kind of

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Speaker 1: pro Palestinians that have that. And I completely empathize, and

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Speaker 1: I understand why people believe what they believe. Believe me,

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Speaker 1: but this is for a lot of the pro Palestinians

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Speaker 1: that you know. Immediately called all of them settlers, right.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's important to distinguish because if there's

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Speaker 1: ever going to be a path forward in this mess,

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Speaker 1: we have to offer a new rhetoric that deconstructs the

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Speaker 1: nationalist ideologies. Okay, I don't put the Palestinian flag or

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Speaker 1: say free Palestine, which I do as a nationalist ideology.

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Speaker 1: I say that as a deconstruction of nationalism as as

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Speaker 1: as a call to freedom for all, right, though oppressed,

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Speaker 1: as well as the oppressor. Right. If you actually read

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Speaker 1: everyone's quoting, everyone's quoting Phenen, right, everyone's quoting all these revolutionaries,

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Speaker 1: if you actually read the material that they said. Chae

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Speaker 1: Gavari even said the true revolutionary is guided by deep

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Speaker 1: with deep feelings of love in their heart. And he

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Speaker 1: said this at the risk of sounding absurd. He said

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Speaker 1: that direct quote the people perpetuating in Israel. I can

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Speaker 1: say this from a first ten account. I know very

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Speaker 1: good people that are guided by nationalists and fascist ideologies. However,

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Speaker 1: they've been manipulated, they've been lied to, They're fed propaganda

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Speaker 1: twenty four to seven through the news and the sentiment

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Speaker 1: in Israel right now, and I can tell you this,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting messages from people they think everyone is trying

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Speaker 1: to kill Jews. That's what they believe, that's what they've

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Speaker 1: been told. They think this is armageddon for the Jewish people.

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Speaker 1: That's what the media narrative is in Israel. Okay, in

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Speaker 1: spite of the fact that there are many people that

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Speaker 1: are against what's happening, there are many people that directly

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Speaker 1: blame Netanyahu this, but they're being scared to believe that

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Speaker 1: they're being going to be attacked on all fronts, and

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Speaker 1: they have to do everything they can to neutralize the threats. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that is that is the survival kind of that. That

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Speaker 1: is a fact. Does that mean that every single person

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Speaker 1: in Israel is a terrible human being as evil as

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Speaker 1: some people say. No, that is not true at all. Right,

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Speaker 1: And my point is, and what a lot of the

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Speaker 1: revolutionaries said, right, Palo Freer in the Pedagogy of the

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Speaker 1: Oppressed said, in the process of dehumanization, the oppressor dehumanizes himself.

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Speaker 1: Putting that aside, though, I think that you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: I see I know people that died. It was very

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Speaker 1: difficult for me to post in the first two days.

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Speaker 1: I think there were some problematic justifications for the massacre

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Speaker 1: that didn't sit well with me because I'm a humanist.

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Speaker 1: But in the same token, right, I think that I

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Speaker 1: understand the context. I think it behooves us to understand

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Speaker 1: the context. Right. There's a really famous quote. I forget

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Speaker 1: who said it, but if you started the clock or

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Speaker 1: started looking at kind of the colonization in America from

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Speaker 1: when the Native Americans started shooting the arrows, you think

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Speaker 1: that the Native Americans were the aggressives. Right. If you

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Speaker 1: started looking at, you know, the colonization of Algeria when

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Speaker 1: the Alga, when the local population started rebelling, you think

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Speaker 1: that they were the aggressives. Right. And that's not to

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Speaker 1: say in the same breath that terrible things happened to

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Speaker 1: amazing people there. Right. What people don't know, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the propolsting movement doesn't know, is that many

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Speaker 1: of the people living in the area on Gazas are

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Speaker 1: actually activists, like very anti Zionist activists. Right that many

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Speaker 1: of the testimonies of the families of the of those

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Speaker 1: activists are saying to stop the genocide, that it's not

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Speaker 1: going to bring back their friends, their family members. Those

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Speaker 1: are the people that were a lot of whom were

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Speaker 1: killed in the attacks because that's where they live, they

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Speaker 1: work with, you know, organizations at GAZA like acknowledge that, right,

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Speaker 1: understand the complexity saying hey, you guys are all settlers.

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Speaker 1: That's just dumb. It's not factually true. Their grandparents were,

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Speaker 1: their great grandparents were one hundred percent. But now their

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Speaker 1: generations and generations of people, right, just like in America,

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Speaker 1: their generations and generations of people that descended, Are they

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Speaker 1: to be held accountable for the actions of their ancestors?

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Speaker 1: Doesn't make any sense. They should be held accountable for

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Speaker 1: actions that they take now, for sure, right, holding your

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Speaker 1: government accountable, you know, thinking about an actual solution to

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Speaker 1: this terrible situation that one hundred percent people should be

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Speaker 1: held accountable for. But to call them settlers as a

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Speaker 1: justification for their deaths is something that I will never do, right,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think it helps the strugg Right, I

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Speaker 1: think it's important to say and then simultaneously also say,

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Speaker 1: did you guys know that Israel played a very major

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Speaker 1: role in establishing the Kammas, Like, don't be stupid, open

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Speaker 1: a history book, see what happened, right, understand, don't just

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Speaker 1: be quick to call and quick to say both sides.

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Speaker 1: It's not a both side situation. Even though the aggression

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Speaker 1: was terrible, those are those two things can be true.

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Speaker 1: It's a devastating, tragic event, right, and I know many

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Speaker 1: great people that were killed in it. But in the

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Speaker 1: same breath, we have to remember what caused it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Context is everything.

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Speaker 1: Right, context is everything. Israel funded the Kamas BB has

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Speaker 1: direct quotes in Israeli newspapers saying we have to fund

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Speaker 1: the Hamas in order for is Palestinians never to have

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Speaker 1: a state. He directly said that how do you guys

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Speaker 1: ignore these statements. They've been very bib has been very

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Speaker 1: clear as to what is going to happen and what

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Speaker 1: he's trying to accomplish. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: to compound things, the settlers in his government right now,

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Speaker 1: Isal Bengvill and Smooch are two settlers. They literally are settlers,

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Speaker 1: like in accordance to the national law, they're considered settlers, okay,

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Speaker 1: illegal settlers, and they're the second and third most powerful

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Speaker 1: people in Israel. Okay. I don't think people understand or know,

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Speaker 1: but those two guys, there's a there's a famous rabbi

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Speaker 1: okay in Jerusalem. He's an extremist fundamentalist rabbi, Jewish fundamentalist rabbi.

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Speaker 1: What he's been calling for for a long time, Ka

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Speaker 1: sadaka is Kahana was right. He was a very fascist

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Speaker 1: rabbi that was basically calling for the extermination of all Arabs.

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Speaker 1: And and they're basically they're called kahanistem and that's it's

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Speaker 1: basically what the left in Israel used to call this government.

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Speaker 1: Man tash Khanistim means government of Kahanists. Okay, that is

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Speaker 1: what that's who's running the country. And this rabbi has

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Speaker 1: been calling for in a biblical sense. And we all

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Speaker 1: know when people have an utmost you know, devotion to religion,

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Speaker 1: that guides them right, not our world. Our world does

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Speaker 1: not guide them. The religious texts and the religious leaders

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Speaker 1: are the ones who tell them what is right and

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Speaker 1: what is wrong right in religious fundamentalism. And so what

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Speaker 1: this rabbi has been calling for for years has been

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Speaker 1: a war to end all wars. Okay, that is what

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Speaker 1: he's been telling them. That is what they've been operating under. Okay,

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Speaker 1: their allegiances are to him, not to the Israeli people

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Speaker 1: like literally to that ideology. And so they're in the

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Speaker 1: government right now. Over the last year, they've been essentially

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Speaker 1: adding illegal settlements at a rapid rate, emboldening and empowering

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Speaker 1: settlers to commit violence that we haven't seen in many,

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Speaker 1: many years. Levels of violence we haven't been seen in

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Speaker 1: many many years, even before this latest aggression. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about over the last twelve months. And the biggest most

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Speaker 1: annoying thing that I hear from Westerners that think they understand, right,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, yeah, we really care about Palestinians. But

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Speaker 1: Hamas has to go two things to that. One, the

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Speaker 1: fact that there are Palestinians on the West Bank and

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Speaker 1: the Palestinians in Gaza doesn't mean they're not the same people.

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Speaker 1: They're Palestinians in forty eight as well. They feel deep

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Speaker 1: feelings of solidarity because they're all oppressed in different ways. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's solidarity under this got under this Grand zionis oppression

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Speaker 1: that they experience. And so I think that it's a

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Speaker 1: fallacy that it was an unprovoked attack. It's a fallacy, right,

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Speaker 1: it's not the case. The fact that Aleksa kept getting

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Speaker 1: bombarded by settlers on purpose, on purpose, I don't put

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Speaker 1: it back like they did this to get a provocation.

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Speaker 1: They've been evoking to get the retaliation for Hamas. They've

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Speaker 1: been doing this for years. This is nothing new, Right,

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Speaker 1: every time Ramas shot rockets over the last five years

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Speaker 1: is because Israel was attacking Alexa right right after Ramadan

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Speaker 1: if you remember, or during Ramadan. Sorry, And so every

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Speaker 1: time a barage of rockets came in right after that

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Speaker 1: barrage of rockets because Hamas wanted to show that someone

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Speaker 1: is sticking up for them. But I'm just saying you

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Speaker 1: have to understand the context. When you're in a blockade,

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Speaker 1: when you're living in a concentration camp, worse than a

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Speaker 1: concentration camp, frankly, right, every electricity is controlled, water is controlled,

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Speaker 1: food is controlled. You're not able to leave, right, You're

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Speaker 1: not able to freaking leave when you want. You're not

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Speaker 1: able to come when you want, not able to A

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Speaker 1: sixty kilometer strip of land is the most densely populated

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Speaker 1: strip of land in the entire world. Depression is the highest,

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Speaker 1: the highest rates of depression. I think the highest rates

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Speaker 1: of child suicide are in Gaza. Okay, when you're living

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Speaker 1: under those conditions, I have no idea how you're spoil

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what that would feel like, So

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Speaker 1: how can I judge anyone any response to that? Right

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Speaker 1: in the same breath, I can also say it's a

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Speaker 1: tragic thing that innocent people died, and they're innocent people,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's important to hold that complexity. Also

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Speaker 1: for the Palestinian cause. I think it's important to not

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Speaker 1: lose sight of our humanity in criticizing the grave injustices

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Speaker 1: that Israel has committed and putting the blame squarely on

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Speaker 1: Israel's shoulders that Hamas exists.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's something I keep coming back to

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Speaker 2: is whenever someone is just all about condemning Hamas, which

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Speaker 2: is like, yes, as you mentioned, like innocent people shouldn't

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Speaker 2: have died, But I blame all the violence that's happening

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Speaker 2: in Israel on Israel. Like it's not, yeah, you can't

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Speaker 2: just start like at a slave revolt as the beginning

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Speaker 2: of history of slavery. It's like, no, actually exactly, they

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Speaker 2: did that for a reason and they had no other choice.

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Speaker 2: And I mean for Palestinians, I think, like, what's the

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Speaker 2: biggest context that's missing is like they've tried everything. It's

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Speaker 2: not their first choice to kill people that didn't deserve

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Speaker 2: it. It's I think I think that's what's been really annoying

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Speaker 2: with the the people that have chosen to spoke to

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Speaker 2: speak out, that have never spoken out before. They are

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Speaker 2: so narrow in their view of this that it's so

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Speaker 2: damaging because they have so many follow werds, or they're

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Speaker 2: talking about the wrong things, and all of those things

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Speaker 2: like kind of perpetuate a really dangerous environment where like

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Speaker 2: a six year old kid can get stabbed to death,

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Speaker 2: or I don't know. I agree with everything you said,

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Speaker 2: and I really appreciate you saying all those things before

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Speaker 2: I forget. We're gonna take our first break, so don't

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Speaker 2: go anywhere and we're back. Something you mentioned early on

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Speaker 2: that I have been thinking about and getting really getting

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Speaker 2: really angry about is why people are surprised or like

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Speaker 2: unexpecting you to speak out about Palestinians if you are

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Speaker 2: not a Palestinian. I am not a Palestinian. I'm Syrian,

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Speaker 2: and I am extremely vocal about the Palestinian cause and

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Speaker 2: the Palestine. I've always been one hundred percent free Palestine

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Speaker 2: till I die. And it's almost like surprising to people,

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Speaker 2: like why are you so worked up like why aren't

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Speaker 2: you so worked up like that? That's what really gets

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Speaker 2: me is your humanity and care. It shouldn't be contingent

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Speaker 2: on your identity if you actually give a shit. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's what I really want to like relate

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Speaker 2: to people, is this is not the Palestinian's struggle solely

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Speaker 2: for themselves, Like this is a struggle for all. Like

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Speaker 2: if this genocide obliterates the Palestinian people, that's on humanity shoulders.

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Speaker 2: That's not that is so indicative of how depraved humans

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Speaker 2: have become. It's just so upsetting. It's just a complete obliteration.

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Speaker 2: There has been videos of settlers saying they want to

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Speaker 2: flattened the whole thing, make it a parking lot. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't even have to tell you what like actual

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Speaker 2: media and like politicians have been saying because it's like atrocious.

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Speaker 2: But I think that's what I want to relate to

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Speaker 2: people is like if you're not if you don't care,

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Speaker 2: examine that, because that is troubling to me, if you

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Speaker 2: don't care about actual genocide. And maybe that word has

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Speaker 2: been used too much to like make people give a shit,

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Speaker 2: but it really makes me question people's humanity when they

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Speaker 2: are able to kind of just like shrug it off

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Speaker 2: and continue about their day.

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Speaker 1: I've been practicing being hopeful. I think it's really important,

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Speaker 1: especially in times like these, to be hopeful, because without hope,

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Speaker 1: and it sounds cheesy, but it's true, we're not empowered, right,

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Speaker 1: were not able to act. And I think what's exciting,

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Speaker 1: what's I guess heartening to me is actually the people's

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Speaker 1: response to what's happening. Yes, there are many influencers and

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Speaker 1: celebrities that posted the wrong thing, I'm also seeing many

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Speaker 1: that posted the right thing. I'm also seeing many people

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Speaker 1: that I'm surprised by. I'm seeing many people that I

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Speaker 1: wasn't surprised by posting the wrong thing, frankly. But I'm

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Speaker 1: also seeing many people white people, you know, black people, right, like,

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Speaker 1: people of all kinds that are disconnected, you know, from

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Speaker 1: an identity perspective to the posting people doing so much

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Speaker 1: showing up. I went to the I saw images from

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Speaker 1: the protest in the other day, and there are I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about the Jewish protest, which was amazing, right,

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Speaker 1: what JVP did with if not now, in front of

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Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer's house was incredible, Right, That's that's solidarity. That's

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Speaker 1: that's that's real, right, That's that's that's that's humanity, right,

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Speaker 1: that's what humanity should be. That's real solidarity. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about the protests though, that was Palestinian lad in the midtown,

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Speaker 1: and I saw tons of Jews there, m hm. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the Sutmar anti Zionist, you know

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Speaker 1: Hasidic Jews. Those are great, right, and they're they're helpful.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about like regular regular ass Jews, right, like me, right,

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Speaker 1: people like not even wearing yamaicas, like people with you know,

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Speaker 1: small yamicas that aren't like you know, Hasidic or anything,

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Speaker 1: holding up signs to help liberate the Palestinian people. In

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Speaker 1: spite of the Hamas, in spite of everything that happened,

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Speaker 1: they showed up. They were not scared. A Pastinian flag

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Speaker 1: doesn't scare them, right, I shouldn't. It shouldn't. But again,

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Speaker 1: I want to be I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: maintain my my I guess I want to maintain the

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Speaker 1: view of objectivity. I think again, you know, Devil's advocate,

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Speaker 1: I think when when And again this is not not

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Speaker 1: me blaming, right, it's more so offering kind of a

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Speaker 1: perspective to question how to how to move forward when

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Speaker 1: people Israeli's Jews whoever right, are indoctrinated to believe that

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Speaker 1: Palestine means no place for me, okay, and then you

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Speaker 1: couple that with the anger anguish that the oppressed people

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Speaker 1: are feeling and saying, yeah, fu fuck that, like we

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Speaker 1: couldn't want you here, right, like you look what you're

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Speaker 1: doing to us. I think that they view the Palestinian

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Speaker 1: flag as a replacement of, you know, the flag of Israel,

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Speaker 1: which many people actually kind of not many people, some

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Speaker 1: people view it that way. And I think that the

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Speaker 1: way I see it and the way many people I

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Speaker 1: know see it, it's a flag that represents liberation from oppression,

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Speaker 1: liberation of the Palestinian people who are being actively oppressed

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Speaker 1: by Zionism, right and ideology, right, you know, perpetuated and

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Speaker 1: executed by people, but it's still an ideology.

424
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: So just like because I think this always comes up,

425
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 2: but being anti Zionis has nothing to do with being

426
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: anti Semitic, and I think they always get complated and

427
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: that's on purpose to make people afraid to speak up

428
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: about Israel. I can only imagine how brainwashed Zionism becomes

429
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 2: to like the whole, like the education and everything. Like,

430
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 2: is that something you experience like firsthand, yeah.

431
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I think what we've seen over the

432
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: last decade, right, the fact that Natanya has been in

433
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: power for over twenty years, that's that's like the dictatorship

434
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: level stuff. And people in America are like, oh yeah,

435
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: the West, you know, there is a semblance of you know,

436
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: power to the people in the West, as semblance of it. Right,

437
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: We're seeing how much the media is in cahoots with

438
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, power against the people right now, which is very,

439
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: very scary and everyone should be up in arms, no

440
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: matter where your your feelings lie. But there is you know,

441
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: there's a new president. You know, every four years of

442
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: a president is termed. Right, you can't be you can't

443
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: be a president for more than two terms. Right. These

444
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: are real things, right, these are real protections. You have

445
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: three different branches of government, right, you have local level,

446
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: local government. You have so many different checks and balances

447
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: that are you know, corrupted and corupted in certain ways

448
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: you know through law obvious, uh and and you know,

449
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: corporate interests, et cetera. I'm aware, but at least you

450
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: have that system in Israel. That system doesn't exist, okay,

451
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: there's no constitution, uh, and a prime minister can't be termed.

452
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: And so now Bibing Ntanello has been in power and

453
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: figured out how to survive attempts on his throne many

454
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: times over through building coalitions with the right wing extremists,

455
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: which frankly are against his interests. Like he wanted to

456
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: kind of perpetuate status quo and just kind of be

457
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: in power Like this is kind of made it difficult

458
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 1: for him to just be the guy who kind of

459
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, makes it makes everything okay for Israelis. Right now,

460
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: Israelis are scared shitless and so. But putting that aside

461
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: and going back to your point, the Knockaba was never

462
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: even discussed until recent history, Like it was not like

463
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: no one even knew what that word means. Right, We

464
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: celebrated it as Yomat's Mote independence Day. So the Israeli

465
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: independence Day is the Palestinian's Knockbat, which means the great

466
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: tragedy for those who don't know, and the catastrophe, yes

467
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: and so. But but what's interesting and very sad is

468
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: that in recent years, because of the world actually and

469
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: when Israelis tell you don't know what you're talking about.

470
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: Don't comment on things you don't talk about that you

471
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: don't know about. You most likely, if you've done any

472
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: any literally any if you read one book on Palestine,

473
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: if you read on Palestine by Noam Chomsky and Elan Pape, like,

474
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: you know more than Israelis know about their own situation.

475
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: And I say that wholeheartedly because I know what they study, right,

476
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: They omit the large swaths of information in order to

477
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: form the psyche through the narrative that they perpetuate and so.

478
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: But because of recent external and global pressure, because of

479
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: the fact that the world's the new generation of young

480
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: people have educated themselves on Palestine, you know, catalyze a

481
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: lot of them, catalyzed by the social justice movement. Right,

482
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: the Angela Davis is the Tromskis of the world who

483
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: always since the sixties, I've been talking about Black liberation

484
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: isntcomplete without the liberation of Palestinians unifying struggles. They know

485
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: more about history of Israel and Palestine than Israelis do. Okay.

486
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: I've always been super impressed, not like not to say

487
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: that people are dumb, actually think people are very smart. Right,

488
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: if they're willing to look. But every Palestinian friend of mine,

489
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: every single one, knows so much about Zionism and Zionus history, right,

490
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: there's scholars of Zionist history, right, But Israelly, there's no

491
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: idea about Palestinians and Palestinian histry.

492
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: It's just I think it's really unsettling because, I mean,

493
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: for those who don't know, the catastrophe was like like

494
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: the mass expulsion of like seven hundred and fifty thousand Palestinians,

495
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: ethnic cleansing, massacres extreme, like just a disgusting show of

496
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: forcing someone to leave their land and taking it over.

497
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: It was atrocious and her and I think the fact

498
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: that they can't even learn about power or like learn

499
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: deeply about Palestine or Palestinians, it's like another way of

500
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: ethnic cleansing and like forgetting they even exist. And I

501
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: think that's very unsettling because you can't just forget. I mean,

502
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: at the same time, they say, like history is written

503
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: by the people that are in power, right or the

504
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: people that I like win the war, quote unquote, and

505
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: they're very capable of convincing a big amount of people

506
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: that like like that they were never.

507
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: Here I think being hopeful is practice. And I've definitely

508
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: fallen into you know, bouts of depression and and helplessness

509
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: and hopelessness also, I think we all do. But I

510
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: think it behooves us to practice hopefulness, especially in times

511
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: like these, because without it, we don't have the power

512
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: to liberate the oppressed. Right, Yeah, and I think you know, yeah,

513
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: I mean, like like you said, it's it's I think

514
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: it's also important. I keep saying, the Palestinian struggle is

515
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: the people's movement all over the world, right, and we're

516
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: seeing that It's not me, I'm nobody, but but we're

517
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: seeing that people understand that. Right. Like I said, people

518
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: are smart. Right, you don't have to go to you know,

519
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: an Ivy League school to be intelligent. Right. Palafreer talked

520
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: about banking intelligence. Right, when you just consume information from

521
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: a teacher perpetuating the perpetuating the injustices and maintaining the

522
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: system of oppression. Right, you can be as educated as

523
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: you want in that form of education and not understand

524
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: the world and understand the inequalities around you. Right, But

525
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: if you feel those inequalities, if you have that empathy,

526
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: if you're able to expand your consciousness a little bit

527
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: to also include those that you may not identify with

528
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: or as or you know that that maybe are not

529
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: tangible their experience is not as tangible to you. Then

530
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: then you're able to understand situations pretty clearly and easily.

531
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: And I think the world is showing up because they

532
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: understand that, right, Sure, the air world is showing up.

533
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: And that's incredible, right because they understand. Right, this is

534
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: like what I always say is Palestine is the last

535
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: kind of, like I said earlier, the last direct colonialist

536
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: project that exists in the world direct, right, in terms

537
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: of direct and active about that colonials project that exists

538
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: in the world and their world. You know, if you

539
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: read Edwards said and orientalism, you understand how the West

540
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: basically created and othered kind of they are a world

541
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,919
Speaker 1: in order to create that separation and division in order

542
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: to create you know, a world, uh that serves self

543
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: interest in visualism versus kind of communitarianism and and and

544
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: of of the kind of East. And so when when

545
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 1: you think about in that context, you start understanding that

546
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: you know, this is and this is a struggle against

547
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: kind of Western imperialism, right, this is a struggle to

548
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: free all oppress people, because that's what that's what Zionism

549
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: Israel currently stands for, and everyone who perpetuates it, and

550
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: and people that talk about intersectionality and anti racism and

551
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: all of that, and they still say and they still

552
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: don't understand that this is literally a real time manifestation

553
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: of the shit that they've been reading in history books, right,

554
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: and we're seeing it and it's jarring, and resistance is

555
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: fucking jarring, right, Like it was darring to me. I

556
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: could barely watch it. I had people crying, you know,

557
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: And this is I didn't say this earlier, but I

558
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,479
Speaker 1: had you know, family members that didn't want to speak

559
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: to me, and like, you know, people cursing at me,

560
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: and like friends from you know, middle school sending me

561
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: hate messages. My mom is receiving death threats, right, Like

562
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: this is real shit, right, and so like this isn't

563
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 1: like an abstract like and and so you know, that's

564
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: what that's what people don't necessarily understand when they just

565
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: approach it academically. And I commend them, and I think

566
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: it's important to like understand the intellectual context of things.

567
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: Like I've done the work, I've read the books. But

568
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: I think it's also important to kind of take a

569
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: step back and contextualize things all around, right, And and

570
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: only through that contextualization can we rehumanize, you know, both

571
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: the the oppressed and the oppressor in order to actually

572
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: have a path forward that's inclusive of all that doesn't

573
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 1: that doesn't pit people against each other. Right, Jews lived

574
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: on that land for many years before Zionism, if your.

575
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 2: Scholar, I want to say, like that just fine, before

576
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: the introduction of Zionism, which is a very modern, very

577
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 2: fascist ideology.

578
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: Not only Zionism though, right, Like think about Syke's Picot, Right,

579
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: the British French treaty that was signed in nineteen twenty

580
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: that sliced up the air world, according to their whim

581
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: didn't take into account any demographic any ethnic geographic relations,

582
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: didn't take into account any any of that. And that

583
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: is what's set the tone for a lot of what

584
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: we're seeing in their world today, right, compounded by the

585
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: introduction of a European ideology into the region that served

586
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: European interests is what is what we're seeing to this

587
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: very day. And the Palestinians bear the biggest brunt of it.

588
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say like I would say, like in recent years,

589
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: there's tragedies all around due to Western imperialism and Western intervention. Right,

590
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: I take that back, right, Like I don't want to

591
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: compare tragedies, but the tragedy of the Palestinian people that

592
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: there's no one really advocating on their behalf. Yeah, I

593
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: was going to add a wrinkle that probably ninety nine

594
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: point nine percent of the population doesn't know, including Pustinians

595
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: and Arabs, because it was actively erased. But up until

596
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: psychs Pico, up until Western imperialism, Arab Jews were an

597
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: integral part of Arabic culture. Okay, An my grandparents from Iraq, Right,

598
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: Iraq wasn't the Iraqi Jews were not Zionists. There were

599
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of Jews in Iraq that lived there

600
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: since Babylonian times. Right. There are many, you know, many

601
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: empires that came through the air world. Right, So this

602
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: place replaced et cetera. But they were there for hundreds

603
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: of years at the minimum. Some would say some of

604
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: them were actually not there due to the Spanish Inquisition, right,

605
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: but actually were there before and never left basically, and

606
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: so you know, they were musicians. You know, they played

607
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: in Kusum, right like there were there were statesmen, they

608
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: were they were very integral part of the culture, right,

609
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: And and they are the many Arab friends that do

610
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: know this, and they they're like, yeah, like it's the biggest,

611
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: the biggest, one of the biggest tragedies is kind of

612
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: the betrayal of the Arab jew right, And they understand, right,

613
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: like when at this point in time, and this is

614
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: not only iraqis was Egypt and you know, Yemen and Morocco.

615
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: There's a huge community, right, like these these people live

616
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: there there there Nazism is not an Arabic concept. They're

617
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: trying to paint Arabs as Nazis.

618
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 2: Even growing up, I would go to Syria a lot,

619
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: and my grandfather would like he would only get bread

620
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 2: at Jewish bakery, Like he would take the walk and

621
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: go there, and it was normal. No one cares, like,

622
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: no one gives a shit really what your religion is

623
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: in those communities. And I think, I mean, this is

624
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: obvious for people that are reading about all of this,

625
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: but the media and Zionism in Israel, they're purposely conflating

626
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: what's happening with religion to make it more complicated for

627
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 2: people to make it this like ancient battle of all time,

628
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 2: when it's not about any kind of Muslim versus Jewish

629
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: versus Arab versus whatever. It's it's really so simple to

630
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: the point where it's kind of silly, and I think

631
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: they make it so complicated for people to be scared

632
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: to talk about it. They're not informed enough. They don't

633
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: know about religion, they don't know about the history. You

634
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 2: don't have to know about any of that to know

635
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: that oppression is wrong and genocide is wrong.

636
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: And every every resistance movement in history. Tree was considered

637
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: a terrorist movement in modern times, right, even Israeli militias. Right,

638
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 1: you had the Lefi, the Excel, and the AGA. Okay,

639
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: they're considered terrorist organizations because they would attack civilian British

640
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: and they've attacked civilian targets during the British mandate. Sounds familiar,

641
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: but you know what, those those three militias became the idea,

642
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: the idea exactly. The three militias that formed that formed

643
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: the IDEAF once Israel was given statehood were considered terrorist organizations,

644
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: the IRA terrorist organization. Right, Nelson Mandela was on the

645
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: US terrorists watchless until two thousand and eight. These are

646
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: real things. These are all facts. But I'm saying even

647
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: if you're thinking about it from the perspective of attacking civilians, Okay,

648
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: wrong in my opinion, but when you don't have if

649
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 1: you look at actually here another another fact, right, look

650
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: at what the Chibella is doing. Okay, they were considered

651
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: terrorist organization, their armed to the teeth. Israel scared shitless

652
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 1: of the physa bullet threat. I'm hearing it from people

653
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: on the ground. Right, They're attacking military targets. They're showing

654
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: the world that they can't because they can. They used

655
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: to not be able to, Now they can. So they

656
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: are when a population is oppressed, suppressed to the level

657
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: that the Gosins are, what what military do they have?

658
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: Do they have F sixteen fighter jets that they can

659
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: go and bomb? I don't know the Kiriyah? Did you

660
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: guys know that the biggest military base in Israel is

661
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: in the middle of the Tel Aviv.

662
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a residential area.

663
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: In a residential area. So what if what if the

664
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: Gozzins had F sixteen fighter what if Kamas had F

665
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: sixteen fighters? They wouldn't want to bomb that yeah, like

666
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: people are people that dense like that they don't understand

667
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: how this thing works and what what oppression looks like. Right.

668
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 1: A lot of my Palestinian friends always say the world

669
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: wants us to be perfect victims and in a lot

670
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: of in a lot of senses, the burden is always

671
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: on the victim right in these oppressive scenarios. So I

672
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: always tell them, guys, like, we have to be smart.

673
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: We have to make sure that you know, again, I like,

674
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: it's it's trauma that I can't you know, I feel

675
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: in my bones, but but it's not it's not directly

676
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: happening to me, and and and so I can't. I'm

677
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: not It's not from a place of judgment. It's from

678
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: a pragmatic perspective. We have to understand that that's the

679
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: trap that they're setting for us. The Kamas enacted. The

680
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: Kamas did exactly what the right wing government wanted them

681
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: to do in order to justify the plan that they

682
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: had all along. I'm not going to go so far

683
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: as to start perpetuating conspiracy theories because it's not my place.

684
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to say that they plan this

685
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: and it was, you know, an inside job, I'm not

686
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: going to say that, but what I will say is

687
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: it served the interests of the right wing government. And

688
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: the one thing I want I meant to say because

689
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: I keep going off on tangents, and I apologize. But

690
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: to your point about the Knakaba, I said, in the

691
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: last ten years, it's pretty crazy to see the narrative shift.

692
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: Israel has so been so emboldened. They feel so invincible

693
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: because of the international support that they have. Now they

694
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: acknowledge the Knokoba. Now they acknowledge the knock but we

695
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: know how they acknowledge it. They say, yeah, the knockba happened,

696
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: Let's do a second one, yep, right, And so now

697
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: they're now all of a sudden the knockber existed, right,

698
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: and they're basically saying, hey, let's do a second one.

699
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: All the like, all the right wing government of government

700
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: officials were saying, the second knock, but let's do it now,

701
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: let's let's that's what they try to do. Yeah, I

702
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,959
Speaker 1: mean they're trying to do in Gauza.

703
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 2: One never ended. It feels like the first one just

704
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 2: ever ended.

705
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: Right that I always I always say that I agree,

706
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: but I'm saying like I'm talking about mass expulsion right now,

707
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: they're trying to they're trying under international on everyone's noses

708
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: to utilize genocide and ethnic cleansing to displace millions of

709
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: palestadiums from Gaza. And God knows, I don't. They don't

710
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: have a they don't. This was like a biblical idea, right,

711
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: like the Judean Samaria. This is not like a there's

712
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: no like specific plans that people had, Like this is

713
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: a biblical, fervent, ideological idea. They don't freaking know what

714
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: they're doing. They don't want to go don't want to

715
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: go to war with Iran. They're scared of the Like

716
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: these are real things, these are real threats. Like Israel

717
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: hasn't fought a real opponent since the seventies in the

718
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: o Pepool War. That's what I'm trying to say. Like

719
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: this showed how vulnerable they are and they're scared. I'm

720
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: telling you, Like I know the sentiment on the ground,

721
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,479
Speaker 1: Like people are scared out of their minds. They don't think.

722
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: They're not very confident in Israel's military, right, Like that's

723
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: why they're bombing the shit, and like that's why they

724
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: haven't invaded. They said they're going to invade babes talking

725
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 1: this big game they haven't done yet because they're scared.

726
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: Remember also, is that the IDs, that's all I say,

727
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: does not actually act in the best interests of the civilians.

728
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: Like there was like a report from an Israeli woman

729
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 2: who survived the massacre at the music festival that said

730
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 2: a lot of them were shot by like their own forces.

731
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: It was like indiscriminate shooting.

732
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 1: The biggest casualties for Israeli soldiers up until this was

733
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: was friendly fire. Yeah. Really, that's that's.

734
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: That's I mean, I just think that's so hard to

735
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 2: remember because it's a They're framed as this very like

736
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: ideal warrior bullshit and it's so far from the truth.

737
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm saying their eighteen year old kids. Yeah,

738
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: these aren't like US like Marines that are career assassins.

739
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: Like have you ever seen in the US marine and

740
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: next to an Israeli soldier. I'm serious, Like, like I know, it's.

741
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: Become a trend to be a soldier of anything. It's

742
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: like very like you see these like young people like yeah, exactly,

743
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 2: it's like a very cool thing to.

744
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: Do because there's never a threat though Israel. Israel has

745
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: been You've grown up in Israel believing that you're the

746
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 1: most powerful entity and you can do whatever you want,

747
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: whenever you want, right, and that notion has been shaken

748
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: to its core. And if you're part of the propaganda machine,

749
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: if you're caught in the propaganda machine that is kind

750
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: of Zionist Israeli ideology, you're basically now your whole world

751
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: is crumbled beneath you. Right, you're completely in survival mode.

752
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: Everyone's posting, everyone's like, you have to eradicate come us,

753
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: But they're not even eradicating comas. What are they doing?

754
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: They're just emboldening come us. Like this happens all the time.

755
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: It's just happening on a much bigger scale right now.

756
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: Any Hamas leader, that the thing I was basically looking for,

757
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: like a big, like a major Hamas leadership, you know,

758
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: attack and once they're able to neutralize, you know, in

759
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: their words numerous high ranking officials, I think they'll declare victory.

760
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: Even though they're not going to be victorious. They're not

761
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: going to bring back the fourteen hundred.

762
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: People are also going to kill the hostages at this rate,

763
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Not like you've already killed

764
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: more than twenty two. That's how much do you actually

765
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 2: care about your civilians and the hostage like the foreign

766
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: hostages either like it's your but but I don't know,

767
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: there's clearly showing their ass.

768
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I want to I want to have

769
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: a clear message though to kind of people that are

770
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: on the fence in the West that are being fed

771
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: propaganda through Western media outlets. That is quite clear at

772
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: this point. And some of them recognize this, and that's

773
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: why they come to my page and they're like, oh,

774
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, thank you. I didn't I didn't know. I

775
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: didn't know. In Israel, there are many people, not even

776
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: ideologically that want to bring the hostages back and don't

777
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: understand why Israel is doing what it's doing before and

778
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: not even talking to them about the hostages.

779
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that videos sleading being like please, it's just yeah.

780
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about left wing activists. I'm talking about

781
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: like averages, reelis right, Natanas failed the Israeli people that

782
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: attack the fact that and again this I don't enough

783
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: people know this right, people who know no, but maybe

784
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: some don't. That attack was a complete military failure on

785
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: behalf of Israel. And that happened because over the last

786
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: six to nine months since the right wing government took place,

787
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: took power, they've been using the IDF to support, empower,

788
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: embolden and protect settlers in the West Bank. And that's

789
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: why settler attacks have increased. That's why settlements have increased,

790
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: that's why they're more settlers than ever before. And what

791
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: they were doing on that very day people don't already know.

792
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: I hope they do. But if they don't already know,

793
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: the IDF was in the West Bank on su Quote,

794
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: which is a Jewish holiday, and they were protecting settlers

795
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: in building a sukkah, that structure that people sit in

796
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: in the middle of Juara, Palestinian village, and they were

797
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: protecting them and chaper owning them so that they can

798
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: break into Palestinian village to build a suka in order

799
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: to antagonize Palestinians. That's say what you may about anything else,

800
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: the fact that that is the priority of the government.

801
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: You know, you're doing the oppression, You're already committing the oppression.

802
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: You're already subjugating the Tastanian people. You know that Hamas

803
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: is comas, you're going to remove security forces from the

804
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 1: border to embolden and empower settlers instead. It doesn't make

805
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: any sense.

806
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: No, it's I mean, that's why the most un settling

807
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: things I've seen coming out of Israel are those right

808
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: wing protests where they're like death to Arabs and whatever,

809
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: or like they're attacking people and the idea f is

810
00:50:48,680 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 2: like either helping them or standing by. If you're on

811
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 2: the fence about this still, you are literally for genocide.

812
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 2: Those are the two differences. It's either your for genocide

813
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: or you're against genocide. And if you're considering the options,

814
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 2: examine yourself. That's not right. I was just set this

815
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: tweet apparently yesterday the twitter for Israeli Prime Minister at

816
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: Israel PM said this is a struggle between the children

817
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 2: of light and the children of darkness, between humanity and

818
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: the law of the jungle. Are you fucking kidding me?

819
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: That's like Nazi Hitler shit, are you There are so

820
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 2: many lives I've already been lost, and the ones that

821
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 2: have not been lost are never going to recover. They've

822
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 2: lost so much other than their life. There are so

823
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: many terrifying and horrific videos that I've seen that no

824
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: one should have to go through and not only are

825
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 2: they going through it, they're getting funded and encouraged by

826
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: most of the world. I cannot accept that. I sorry,

827
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: I don't want to cry, but I might.

828
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's where we're at at this point.

829
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 2: No, but I appreciate you being here to get through

830
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 2: to people who might still be considering what's happening as

831
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 2: a both sides thing or a justification for anything. When

832
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: they see tweets like that, or when they see justification

833
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: for killing all the people because they're all barbarians or

834
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: whatever it is. I urge you. I urge you to

835
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: seek out Palestinian sources of news. Actually see what's happening

836
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 2: in Gaza, listen to people who are not advertising anything

837
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: to you, and it's like pleading for their lives. I

838
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: just this can't be how we end up as a people.

839
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: It's very, very sad.

840
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: It's extremely unlike no word to describe how devastating. And

841
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 2: I think if you are listening and you are wondering

842
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 2: what to do, there are places you can donate to.

843
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 2: I can put some links in the description of sources

844
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 2: that I trust of people to follow and all that stuff,

845
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: so you can look at the description for that. I

846
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 2: think what's very important that people maybe aren't taking too

847
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 2: seriously is how important social media and like spreading awareness

848
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 2: has been, because the only reason the resistance has come

849
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: this far is because of that, because more people are

850
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: aware about what's going on. People aren't accepting that Israel

851
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 2: is doing this. So I think we just can't stop.

852
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,360
Speaker 2: Like as much as they want the world to forget

853
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 2: that Palestinians were even there, we cannot forget Palestinians. And

854
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna stop talking about it, and you shouldn't either.

855
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: This is why I'm speaking on I just set a

856
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:57,439
Speaker 1: message on Palestinian friends. You are our voice now. We're

857
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: not allowed to spit out a lip. They are seeing

858
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 1: anyone who speaks or shares the truth. Please, I beg

859
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: you don't give up on our people in Gaza. We

860
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 1: need your voice to stop the genocide. Thousands of lives

861
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: have already been taken. We can't stand this anymore.

862
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 2: Please listen to that, everybody. Please.

863
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 1: It's very hard to fathom and internalize what's happening.

864
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot, and we're privileged enough to think

865
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: about it that deeply. The people in Gaza Palestinians. They

866
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 2: don't have the luxury of no of anything other than

867
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 2: their nightmare of a reality.

868
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: No, I want to add sin just because I think

869
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 1: that the biggest kind of pushback that we keep hearing

870
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,959
Speaker 1: is Homas yes, please yet And I think that again,

871
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: remembering what we kind of mentioned earlier in the call,

872
00:54:53,239 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: how liberation movements for occupied peoples have always been aimed

873
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: terrorist organizations and you know, even targeted civilians, right, so

874
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: not only like by the definition of terrorist organizations or

875
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: terrorist organizations. So even if that's what we believe, and

876
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: let's just say that that's you know, we accept and

877
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: agreed that that's what Ramas is, I think it's important

878
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:27,919
Speaker 1: to understand that terrorist organizations have become political organizations time

879
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: and time again. And I think that it's also important

880
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: to understand historically the tamas As as an entity again

881
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: remind you was created and partially created and funded by

882
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: the State of Israel, emboldened by the State of Israel.

883
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,720
Speaker 1: Because I want to be very clear, up until the nineties,

884
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: right also accord to the peace process, people say, oh,

885
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: the Palestinians didn't want peace. To your point earlier, the

886
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: Palestinians were willing to take almost anything. At that point,

887
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: Arafat was that are a terrorist before he became a statesman, right,

888
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: was on the table with Robin, had an agreement in place. Okay,

889
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: and then people don't know. If you're not a scholar

890
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: and you don't know, you should know. Oh Goldstein, an

891
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: Israeli terrorist came in to a mosque. I believe it

892
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: was in Hebron, I don't remember exactly, and he killed

893
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: more than thirty people during prayer, just indiscriminately shot innocent

894
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: people in a mosque. So the biggest, one of the

895
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: biggest tragedies. Right. And then he was not only did

896
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: they the response, you know, Verben's response to that was

897
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: it was locking down Hebron Palestinians in Hebron, so because

898
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: he was fearful of what the Palestinians would do in retaliation.

899
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: The immediate response by Rabine was locking down the people

900
00:56:55,239 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 1: of Hebron. Okay, instead of going and doing something about

901
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: the settlers that committed the crime or that emboldened the

902
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: person committing the crime. That's number one, Number two, that

903
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: sparked the retaliation, because when people don't have justice, they

904
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: take justice in their own hands. So that sparked this

905
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: series of attacks in Israel, right, devastating attacks in Israel.

906
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: But it was that that did that, and it was

907
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: his He could have he could have handled that differently,

908
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: but he didn't, right and and and that was what

909
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: sparked the response then in turn, Okay again who putting

910
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: that aside? Right? And and sorry, little tidbit. His grave

911
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: m HM. Cochtain's grave is guarded by the IDF as

912
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: some and many many many consider him a national hero.

913
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen photos of people like crying at his

914
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: grave like it's yes, save their faces or something. When

915
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: he's not. Just when you literally just like went in

916
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: to a mosque with a gun and shot thirty people

917
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 2: who were fucking praying.

918
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: Yes, And that's wrong.

919
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,439
Speaker 2: When people are idolizing.

920
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: Exactly, it's rotten to its core, is my point. This

921
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: is what you're supporting when you support the state of Israel. Okay,

922
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: this is part of part of this is part of

923
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: what you're supporting. Now, taking a second step, Robin was

924
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: assassinated by a Jewish Israeli, not by Palestinian. Even in

925
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: spite of everything, the peace process was still going on

926
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: because they did everything to foil it, right, and then

927
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: they assassinated the Israeli Prime minister. And ever since then,

928
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: right then you had Ariel's your own and whatever that

929
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: tried to continue a peace process and you know, some

930
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: capacity whatever. Since then, for the last twenty three years,

931
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: no one has been talking about a peace process. They blamed,

932
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: they blamed the Palestinians for every act of resistance. They

933
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: don't listen. They believe that they talk. The way that

934
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: politicians discuss the Palestinian kind of oppression is managing the occupation, Okay,

935
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: managing the opposition. No one's talking about peace, not left left,

936
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: pseudo left, whatever you want to call it, not liberal,

937
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: zionis left or center or right. No one is talking

938
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: about peace. No one is talking about any semblance of peace.

939
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: I find it very particular, right, and this is my

940
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: this is why I'm saying we live in the twilight zone.

941
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 1: That Donald Trump's four years in office, okay, he he

942
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: had Kushner that that say, what all the bad things

943
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: right about his about his behavior. He was trying to

944
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: through normalization deals with their world, trying to get a

945
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: deal for the Palestinian people, albeit the most absurd sort

946
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: of deal. If you ever read what the Abraham accord

947
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: is actually entailed right like, weird like ways and weird

948
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: right like, not a deal that anyone should have accepted.

949
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: But putting that aside, he was talking about it. There

950
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: was discussion, there was Palestinian like the word palestinian was

951
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: being said by the Office of the President. In the

952
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: last four years that Biden was in office, no one

953
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: said anything, no one did anything to advanced piece. No

954
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: one even brought a bogus deal like darreed Kushner to

955
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: the table. I don't make it make sense. I don't understand.

956
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: They basically bought into the Zionist idea that we can

957
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: just live, continue living while millions of people are being

958
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: oppressed and occupied. This is the Democratic Party, and that's

959
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: why we see the media now the way it is,

960
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: because they're controlling the media narrative too. Right, So open

961
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:54,439
Speaker 1: your eyes, see it for what it is, right, don't

962
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: get cloud don't let your judgment get clouded by this

963
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: two side bs aspect. I hold space for the killing

964
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: of innocent civilians, including the killing of Israeli innocent civilians,

965
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: while simultaneously understanding that this is all because of the

966
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: aggression of colonialism and specifically a perpetuation of the Zionist

967
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: project as a colonialist, nationalist ethno state, and that is

968
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: what I ask of you guys to do, right, Yeah,

969
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: thank you for that.

970
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 2: That's I think a great place to end. Thank you

971
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 2: again for joining me. You are just as your Palestinian

972
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: friends said in that message, your voice is really critical

973
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 2: because people will more likely listen to you than to

974
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 2: a Palestinian. So very much, thank you for your activism.

975
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 2: And I don't know, it's we're not living in a

976
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 2: just world and so we just have to stick together.

977
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: I also want to mention the other reason why social

978
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 2: media is so important is like, one, there's a reason

979
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 2: they cut electricity to Gaza. They don't want anything coming

980
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: out of there. They want them to die in a blackout.

981
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: And two they are literally arresting people for following Palestinian accounts.

982
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 2: Now yeah, so I mean, if that's not sutalitarianism, like

983
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 2: what the fuck is? I don't But anyway, so, uh,

984
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 2: that's it for today. I can't I don't think it

985
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 2: can do anymore. But again, I'll put some sources in

986
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 2: the description to donate to to keep raising awareness. If

987
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 2: you have people in your circles that are still hesitant

988
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 2: about having a stance on this, like have conversations. It

989
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 2: shouldn't be complicated. It really shouldn't be, because it's not.

990
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 2: And that's all. That's all I have. So thanks everybody,

991
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 2: thank you for having me. It Could Happen here as

992
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 2: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from

993
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media, visit our website Coalzonemedia dot com or

994
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 2: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

995
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for

996
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 2: It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at Coolzonmedia dot com

997
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: slash sources. Thanks for listening,