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Speaker 1: Trust Me is brought to you by better Help as

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Speaker 3: H e lp dot com slash trust.

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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust Me.

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Speaker 4: Trust Me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 5: I've never lived.

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Speaker 4: To your never live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome trust Me. The podcast about colds, extreme belief

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Speaker 2: and manipulation from two Earthlings who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I am Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: And today is part one of our interview with Jan Broberg,

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Speaker 2: kidnapping survivor whom you may have heard of. Or seen now,

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Speaker 2: because she is the subject of two Peacock projects right now.

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Speaker 2: There's a scripted series called Friend of the Family and

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Speaker 2: the accompanying documentary Friend of the Family True Evil. In

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Speaker 2: part one, she's going to tell us about how she

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Speaker 2: met Robert Birch, told a man from church when she

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Speaker 2: was a child who quickly became close friends with her family.

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Speaker 2: She'll tell us how he groomed and manipulated her and

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Speaker 2: her parents over the course of years, seducing both her

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Speaker 2: mother and her father until Birch to hold finally put

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Speaker 2: his sick plan into action.

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Speaker 1: She'll talk about how he kidnapped her and set up

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Speaker 1: an elaborate scheme to convince her that she had a

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Speaker 1: mission involving an alien race, and the way to do

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Speaker 1: it was to have his baby, plus how few consequences

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Speaker 1: he faced. And that's just the first kidnapping.

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Speaker 2: Stay tuned for part two next week. There's so much

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Speaker 2: more we will get into with her, and I should

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Speaker 2: mention also that there will be descriptions in this episode

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Speaker 2: of child' sexual abuse before we dive in with j Anne,

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Speaker 2: who is amazing and has so much to say on

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Speaker 2: all of these issues. I would like to know Megan,

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Speaker 2: what is your cultiest thing of the week.

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Speaker 1: My cultiest thing of the week is a article I

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Speaker 1: just saw today. It's not that exciting, but it is culty,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion. Steve Jobs sandals, his Birkenstock sandals just

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Speaker 1: sold at auction for two hundred and nineteen thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I cannot lie.

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Speaker 2: If you were to ask me how much I thought

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Speaker 2: his birkenstocks would sell for, I would think it would

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Speaker 2: maybe even be more than that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not shocked at the price, but I'm also

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Speaker 1: just staring down the barrel of like giant recession coming

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Speaker 1: and somebody just spent a house on birkenstocks that are

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Speaker 1: like disgusting.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it is so stupid, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: The real genius and all of this is the person

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Speaker 1: who bought them in twenty sixteen for three thous.

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Speaker 2: So Okay, they call Steve Jobs a genius, but I

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Speaker 2: think the person who bought them for three thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: is actually a genius.

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Speaker 3: Because they just made so much Buddy, so much money.

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm jealous. What about you, what's the cultiest

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Speaker 1: thing that happened.

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Speaker 3: To you this week? Well, I just stumbled upon an article.

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Speaker 2: About this practice that some in cells are doing, which

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Speaker 2: is so weird and sad. So have you heard of

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Speaker 2: this thing that they talk about called looksmaxing?

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Speaker 3: I think so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually did read an article about this the

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Speaker 1: other day.

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Speaker 3: But please say more because it's bizarre.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So looks maxing for anyone who does not know,

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Speaker 2: they are activities that they do to make themselves more

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Speaker 2: masculine and handsome. So this could be like going to

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Speaker 2: the gym all the time, taking testosterone and getting reconstructive

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Speaker 2: surgery on their faces. This article says, to achieve the

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Speaker 2: facial shape idealized online, narrow eyes, p cheekbones, and a

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Speaker 2: pronounced jaw bone. Some looksmaxers have resorted to subjecting their

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Speaker 2: facial bones to repeated trauma. So they use hands or

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Speaker 2: hammers or blunt instruments to literally repeatedly hit themselves, thinking

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Speaker 2: that it's going to stimulate their bone growth and make

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Speaker 2: them more manly.

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Speaker 3: And it's called bone smashing.

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Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? Like this seems made up? How

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Speaker 2: is this real?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: That's so crazy.

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Speaker 2: They're like all these forms where these guys are talking

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Speaker 2: about how they made themselves more manly by fucking smashing

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Speaker 2: their faces.

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Speaker 3: It's unbelievable, you guys.

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, women do some stuff for their appearance,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know any woman who's out there hammering

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Speaker 2: fucking No.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it yet. I won't be surprised. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess what is Beverly Hill's but people hammering their

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Speaker 1: face and injecting it with shit.

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Speaker 3: But at least trust a doctor to do it. The

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Speaker 3: thing that I there's a specialist doing was like.

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Speaker 1: A guy breaking his jaw with a hammer. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it would grow back more manly. I don't understand. It's

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Speaker 1: so crazy, but yeah, definitely, Culty.

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Speaker 2: It's just so crazy to me every time I hear

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Speaker 2: about this, because it's like a bunch of men who

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Speaker 2: have no idea what women find attractive, giving each other

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Speaker 2: advice on how to be more attractive to women. I

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Speaker 2: cannot tell you how many women I know who are

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Speaker 2: like not that into a hyper masculine look, and they

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Speaker 2: really just want someone who's like funny and fun and

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Speaker 2: is like nice to them and not like fake nice.

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Speaker 2: I'm a nice guy nice to them, but like actually

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Speaker 2: very like empathetic and kind like that is our sexuality

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Speaker 2: in like the brain chemistry of a typical SIS woman

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Speaker 2: is driven more by like how they feel and what

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Speaker 2: their connection to the person is than it is by

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Speaker 2: looking at a person and thinking, ooh, that.

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Speaker 3: Is like a sexy person.

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Speaker 2: Men see boobs and they're like, I want to fuck it,

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Speaker 2: and women are like, men are scary, you're hot. That's

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Speaker 2: I'm attracted to that, but also like I need this

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Speaker 2: other stuff to get turned on.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I think it's that

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Speaker 1: you know term medium ugly that everybody uses on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: Like I think that most women are really attracted to

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Speaker 1: that oddly, but I do understand if somebody is actually ugly,

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Speaker 1: no matter how empathetic they might be, it might be

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Speaker 1: hard to get a date.

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Speaker 3: And it sucks that. You're right, you're right, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: But what's interesting is that, like when I went on

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Speaker 2: those pickup artist retreats for men or whatever, like almost

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Speaker 2: none of them were like actually disgusting, right, Like, they

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Speaker 2: were almost all fine and just, and some of them

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Speaker 2: were even like very cute, and they just like truly

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Speaker 2: were so dysmorphic about themselves and so like convinced that

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Speaker 2: what was wrong with them was their face and like

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Speaker 2: not all of the things they needed to work on

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Speaker 2: and of their confidence and their personality that like it

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Speaker 2: was just it's just a total wrong path to go. Now,

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Speaker 2: I do think that this group of men is over

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Speaker 2: identifying with their looks and grossly overestimating how much women

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Speaker 2: want like a very strong jaw. Yes, agree, Like that's

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Speaker 2: not like that's the thing that men like. That's not

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Speaker 2: a thing that women need, you know, couldn't agree more

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Speaker 2: case in point Pete Davidson, Right, all right, that's all

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Speaker 2: for now, let's do it. Trust Me is brought to

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Speaker 2: Online online therapy has been incredibly important for me in

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Speaker 2: my healing journey, and I honestly think it's just like

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Speaker 2: e LP dot com slash Trust.

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Speaker 5: Welcome Jan Broberg to trust me.

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Speaker 3: So you are the subject of.

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Speaker 2: Not one, but two projects currently on Peacock right now.

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Speaker 2: One is a scripted series called Friend of the Family

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Speaker 2: and the other one is a documentary called Friend of

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Speaker 2: the Family True Evil, which are about your experiences being kidnapped, manipulated,

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Speaker 2: and abused by this man named Birch told whom you

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Speaker 2: knew is be right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was his nickname. He had a nickname for

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Speaker 4: all of us.

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Speaker 2: Start us at the beginning, how did your family first meet?

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Speaker 5: Birch told, and what year was this?

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Speaker 4: We met the family, the whole family at church, and

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Speaker 4: we met them in nineteen seventy one. Friendship in stud

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Speaker 4: that was just as easy and as natural as it

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Speaker 4: would be as if it were your favorites, you know, aunt,

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Speaker 4: an uncle and all your cousins. That's how it felt.

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Speaker 4: My dad's an identical twin and his twin brother, my

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Speaker 4: uncle and his four boys lived just a couple miles

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Speaker 4: from us as well, and so this was nothing unusual

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Speaker 4: to have to be around a family that matched us

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Speaker 4: in age. It was awesome then.

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Speaker 3: And how old were you?

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Speaker 5: I was nine, so you knew him for.

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Speaker 2: A few years before any of the stuff started getting

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Speaker 2: really bad.

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Speaker 4: We knew that we did hundreds of activities with this family,

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Speaker 4: with him, many many, many many things together. We really

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Speaker 4: became so very close that it was even that conversation

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Speaker 4: like if we died, would you take our kids? Or

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Speaker 4: if you died, we'll take your kids, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and my dad said, oh, well, I have a twin brother,

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Speaker 4: and we worked it out with our family, you know,

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Speaker 4: but but yes we would take your kids and you know,

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Speaker 4: love them like our own. I mean, that's how close

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Speaker 4: we were.

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Speaker 2: So he was like a family member to you, so

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Speaker 2: you trusted him completely. Can you describe him a little

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Speaker 2: bit in terms of his personality, Like was he charismatic, charming?

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Speaker 4: He was both of those things. He was. He was

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Speaker 4: the fun dad. You know, he had the things that

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Speaker 4: we didn't have, trampoline, snowmobiles, a boat. He loved to

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Speaker 4: go and do. And you know, he had a furniture

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Speaker 4: store he was that he owned. That was a big deal.

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Speaker 4: It was on the front page of the newspaper and

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Speaker 4: he was, you know, showing furniture to someone in town

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Speaker 4: and here's this whole front page story about the new

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Speaker 4: furniture store in town. Remember that, because I ended up

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Speaker 4: working at its furniture store just as a like, oh,

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Speaker 4: we'll give jan a little job and she can, you know,

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Speaker 4: move the furniture around kind of a thing. Yeah, it

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Speaker 4: was a very, very much a situation where she'll dust

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Speaker 4: the furniture and pay her a dollar an hour, and

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Speaker 4: I'll take her and get an ice cream, and you know,

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Speaker 4: she'll have a little after school job. And he used

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Speaker 4: tactics like that to gain trust, and nobody knew the

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Speaker 4: wiser it would be like your brother in law saying

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Speaker 4: I have something, or your favorite uncle saying come and

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Speaker 4: work for me, or here at the you know, our

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Speaker 4: little restaurant and you can do the dishes in the back,

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Speaker 4: or you know. It's like, yeah, all these things that

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Speaker 4: to some people they look at my store and go, oh,

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Speaker 4: that's a red flag. And I'm like, doesn't look like

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Speaker 4: a red flag when you know the person, Yeah, you

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Speaker 4: already them and you already love them, there's no red

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Speaker 4: flag waving.

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Speaker 1: Well, the problem is that, like red flags can also

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Speaker 1: look like really green flags. You know, like if he

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Speaker 1: was a good person, have been so wonderful for him

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Speaker 1: to be so involved and so invested in all of

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Speaker 1: these things. That's the confusing part.

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Speaker 4: And he does look like a good person because we

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Speaker 4: met him at church. Our church has a lot of

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Speaker 4: service opportunities, so he was always helping people and giving us,

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Speaker 4: you know, discounts on the furniture and let me build

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Speaker 4: a wall in the great big bedroom downstairs so you

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Speaker 4: can have your own room. All of that was a

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Speaker 4: part of his Amma, yeah, this is how he operated.

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Speaker 4: And he just seemed so charming and so charismatic, but

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Speaker 4: also very caring and very tenderhearted. You know, he could

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Speaker 4: cry the drop of a hat. I'm like, man, he's

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Speaker 4: the best actor I ever writ to work with.

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Speaker 2: As a former Mormon myself too, I like when you

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Speaker 2: meet someone at church, there sort of is an automatic

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Speaker 2: trust there because they're a part of your group. Everyone

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Speaker 2: outside the church is the outgroup. But if it's someone

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Speaker 2: in church, you trust that person.

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Speaker 4: And it doesn't matter which church it is, whether it's

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Speaker 4: a Mormon church, a Catholic church, a Presbyterian church, Christian church,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't matter. That's how you feel. You go to synagogue,

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Speaker 4: the people there, you can trust. They're there to do

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Speaker 4: the same thing you are, you know, to worship, to

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Speaker 4: try to remember the Ten Commandments, to try to be

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Speaker 4: a better person, to serve your neighbor. And you know,

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Speaker 4: that's the that's the fallacy behind people that you know

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Speaker 4: operate and our predators within big organizations, because big organizations

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Speaker 4: like churches have a really really bad time. They don't

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Speaker 4: do things the way they should. And I'm not trying

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Speaker 4: to blame because there's one person to blame in my story,

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Speaker 4: and it's the perpetrator. It's him. But there are so

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Speaker 4: many things that need to change within our big organizations,

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Speaker 4: whether they're churches or businesses, or community centers or Boy

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Speaker 4: Scouts or whatever it is that have your gymnastics team,

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Speaker 4: the USA gymnastics team. I mean, you use these huge,

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Speaker 4: these huge examples that they don't do the right thing

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Speaker 4: when they find out something's wrong, they don't do the

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Speaker 4: right thing. They don't, you know, immediately say we turn

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Speaker 4: this over to the authorities. This is a crime. This

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Speaker 4: is what I was told. You can't have that protection

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Speaker 4: of confession to hide behind right and have a child

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Speaker 4: who they knew ten months before another girl inappropriate behavior

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Speaker 4: with a minor female had already been something that was discussed,

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Speaker 4: and he was repenting of something. But we didn't know

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Speaker 4: because you don't you don't know what clergy gets to know.

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Speaker 4: They don't come and tell you did. Hey, I can

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Speaker 4: see you have a really good friendship with this family.

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Speaker 4: This man's got a problem.

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Speaker 1: Did his wife know about the child before?

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Speaker 4: Oh? I don't know. You know. It's interesting because even

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Speaker 4: with that, unless the person wants to tell their spouse,

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Speaker 4: their spouse doesn't necessarily know why they were At least

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Speaker 4: in our church. I don't know if this is true

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Speaker 4: of other churches. At least in the Warmon church. You

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Speaker 4: know that your spouse is disfellowshipped or excommunicated or but

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Speaker 4: you don't necessarily know why or have any of the

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Speaker 4: details if that person has chosen not to tell you,

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Speaker 4: because again it's confidential and it's protected that way, which

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Speaker 4: I understand. You know, every human being makes mistakes. You know,

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Speaker 4: I understand that my own parents made terrible mistakes that

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Speaker 4: they went and repented for those in the way that

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Speaker 4: they knew to do that, but they weren't mistakes that

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Speaker 4: were made on children, right you know, enable in the seventies,

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Speaker 4: I think things have gotten better, They've changed some degree,

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Speaker 4: but right now it feels like we are on the

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Speaker 4: precipice of a true like movement, like a true awareness

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Speaker 4: or an awakening about the children. There's you know, two

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Speaker 4: out of ten girls one out of ten boys are

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Speaker 4: still in twenty twenty two being sexually abused or assaulted

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Speaker 4: in some sexual manner. Not this doesn't even include physical

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Speaker 4: abuse sexually by someone they know.

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Speaker 2: Right now, Grooming the family is a tactic that is

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Speaker 2: commonly used.

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Speaker 5: By pedophiles or abusers.

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Speaker 2: Like we talk a lot about grooming the child, but

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Speaker 2: I think what gets neglected in that conversation is the

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Speaker 2: grooming of the family. So here's a list from the

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Speaker 2: Internet of ways that abusers can groom parents. Offers to

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Speaker 2: take your child to sports or other activities, or offers

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Speaker 2: to babseit or take your child camping, offers to mentor

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Speaker 2: your child individually, coach your child, and so on.

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Speaker 3: Jack buys gifts for your family.

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Speaker 2: Jack offers to do things for your family like repairs,

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Speaker 2: are gardening. Check chose an interest in your child's activities,

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Speaker 2: well being, school grades, or other areas of your child's life.

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Speaker 2: Check compliments your family and parenting. Check plays innocently. I

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Speaker 2: think this is a really important one. Plays innocently with

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Speaker 2: your child and touches your child in a non sexual

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Speaker 2: way while you're around, which gets you and your child

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Speaker 2: used to the idea of physical contact.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely check check check.

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Speaker 2: And find only tries to start a flirtatious or romantic

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Speaker 2: relationship with you the parent.

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Speaker 4: Check in spades. Wow, every single one of those things

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Speaker 4: is true, and every single one of those things seemed

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Speaker 4: completely benign because of the way it was encased. You know,

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Speaker 4: he was the fun dad. He would jump on the

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Speaker 4: trapoline with all the kids, because he was the fun one, right,

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Speaker 4: it was the one that would like us all to

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Speaker 4: the science fiction movies. I'll take the kids, everybody else

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Speaker 4: take a night off. I love these things. I'm fascinated

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Speaker 4: with UFOs and science fiction. I'll take all the kids,

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Speaker 4: his kids and us that it's so perfect that list.

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Speaker 4: I have never heard a list as good as that one.

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Speaker 2: So over time, basically the whole family gets comfortable with

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Speaker 2: the idea of him spending time with their kids, having

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Speaker 2: what they think is just totally innocent physical contact with

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Speaker 2: their kids. In your case, that one was a big

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Speaker 2: one that comes up in your story a lot. The

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Speaker 2: one that I didn't really know about before your story

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Speaker 2: was the engaging himself full a romantic relationship with the parents.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and it's so common. This is what's amazing about

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Speaker 4: the documentary that's coming out on Peacock is I got

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Speaker 4: to interview the next little girl, the next victim, and

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Speaker 4: meet her and hug her, and we both just cried

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Speaker 4: and the through line was well, of course, he started

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Speaker 4: first on my mother, My single mother, made sure she

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Speaker 4: was in love with him so she would never notice

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Speaker 4: or if I ever said anything, which she did. At

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Speaker 4: one point she said something and her mother basically said, oh,

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Speaker 4: you just make things up and exaggerate everything. Oh, go

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Speaker 4: in love with them. And it went on for another

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Speaker 4: five years. Wow. Wow, that's so common. I really think

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Speaker 4: this is the really good one. And in my case,

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Speaker 4: my mom was happily married, but they still know how

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Speaker 4: to divide and conquer. Find a special in with the dad,

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Speaker 4: find a special romantic you know, at least attraction with mom,

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Speaker 4: and then play on those things. So then the carying

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Speaker 4: wonderful adults in my life, my mom, dad, are worried

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Speaker 4: about their own mistakes, like don't go down that road.

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Speaker 4: Don't go down that road. I mean he he made

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Speaker 4: those romantic gestures and little moments with my mom for

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Speaker 4: four years before she fell into his actual I.

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Speaker 5: Mean it's like a cult leader. It's like joining a

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Speaker 5: cult really and so manipulative.

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Speaker 2: I mean that when you're like trying not to cheat

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Speaker 2: on your husband and you're just like focused on not

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Speaker 2: cheating on your husband because you feel this attraction to

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Speaker 2: this person, like that is going to distract you from

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Speaker 2: anything else that's going on them because you think this

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Speaker 2: is the main family dynamic that's happening, right.

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Speaker 4: Exactly you're just that much more worried about the things,

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Speaker 4: you know, like what you just said, don't don't do that,

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Speaker 4: don't go there, don't go there. I love this, I

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Speaker 4: love my cancer, I love my husband. I've had that

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Speaker 4: attraction to somebody else that I was like fighting it

390
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Speaker 4: for years. I've had that actual experience. I didn't you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe it didn't happen in the same way because this

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Speaker 4: person wasn't a predator on top of the natural kind

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Speaker 4: of Oh yeah, you know, but when they are, every

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Speaker 4: human being makes mistakes. As far as I can tell,

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Speaker 4: people are just sending into some sort of heaven, you know,

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Speaker 4: oh that one grows perfect on the street going you

397
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Speaker 4: know what I mean. We're all human and so people

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Speaker 4: make mistakes. And so for me, when the documentary came out,

399
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Speaker 4: and the first one and it was just so much

400
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Speaker 4: outcry against my parents, I'm like, wait a minute, what.

401
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Speaker 4: I was completely unprepared for that. I was sick to

402
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Speaker 4: my stomach. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have the

403
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Speaker 4: best parents.

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Speaker 3: In yeah, my mom.

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Speaker 2: If y'all haven't heard our story, it's episode one of

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Speaker 2: our podcasts.

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Speaker 4: Her story was.

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Speaker 2: Not told the right way in the beginning because it

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Speaker 2: came out on like a particular network and was done

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Speaker 2: in a particular way, and also just people didn't don't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of awareness about that stuff necessarily. So

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Speaker 2: when it came out that, like I went to live

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Speaker 2: with another family for a little while, he had manipulated

414
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Speaker 2: her four months and isolated her and abused her and

415
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Speaker 2: all of these things, she believed that she didn't do that,

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Speaker 2: we wouldn't get to be together.

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Speaker 4: And have it for me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, my mom suffered so much, like.

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Speaker 1: The people attacked your mind, then people, Yeah, that's really hard,

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Speaker 1: that's really hard.

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Speaker 4: Being that's so hard because you now, as especially now

422
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Speaker 4: as an adult, can for sure see all of it.

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Speaker 4: You lay it out and in real time. But people

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Speaker 4: are just so quick to judge someone that they haven't

425
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Speaker 4: walked in their shoes. That's why I appreciated the series.

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Speaker 4: That's why I never quit talking about my story. I've

427
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Speaker 4: been telling my story for thirty two years, since my

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Speaker 4: son was born, who's now thirty three, I guess thirty

429
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Speaker 4: three years. But to small little groups like I was

430
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Speaker 4: working at Disney World, I was, you know, a singer, dancer, entertainer, actress.

431
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Speaker 4: That was my first professional job, and I'm working at

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Speaker 4: Disney World and my son's born at Orlando Regional Medical

433
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Speaker 4: Center and like I said, he's now thirty three, big

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Speaker 4: grown up man. And but at the time, it was

435
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 4: like that was the awakening for me of when I

436
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 4: saw this little, you know, this little person in my

437
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 4: own I was like, oh, am I going to protect him.

438
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 4: I should tell my story. I'm not sure I have

439
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 4: a story to tell. I don't know if anybody would

440
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 4: believe me. I'm not even sure if that's the right

441
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 4: thing to do, but if I had this feeling well

442
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 4: up in me. And then over the next few years,

443
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 4: as you know, I had gotten asked to speak. It

444
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 4: just this little tiny book club that one of my

445
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 4: fellow you know, dancer, singer, you know people at Disney

446
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 4: World had created this little book club and she said,

447
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 4: come tell your story to everybody. And I'm like, huh,

448
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 4: I don't have a book. She's like, no, your story

449
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 4: can help people. I really believe it. I really want

450
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 4: you to do it. And then that was the first

451
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 4: time when all of a sudden they were asking me

452
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 4: these questions and I was like, oh, yeah, I do

453
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 4: know the answer to that, or oh you don't know

454
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 4: about what grooming is, what that actually means. Oh, you know,

455
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 4: it was really eye opening, certainly how far I've come

456
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 4: in this process of telling my story, but also how

457
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 4: long it has taken to get it right. Like the

458
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 4: series is told so well. It really wasn't out of

459
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 4: body experience almost for me. I was angry. I mean

460
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 4: I'd scream at the TV and scream at him. And

461
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 4: I've been producing and reading the scripts and you know,

462
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 4: helping the actors and writing them notes and making sure

463
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 4: it's right. That was my whole intention and doing my part.

464
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,959
Speaker 4: But man, to see it, it really was like looking

465
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 4: at our story like you know, from some big perch,

466
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 4: and to get to that, Yeah, like I was shedding

467
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 4: my skin like a snake. It was so interesting. And

468
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 4: I was like, if people can have an immersive experience

469
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 4: like I just had him watching my own story that

470
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 4: I already know so well, if they will just sit

471
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 4: and watch it and not be distracted by their phone

472
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 4: or eating their chips and salsa, they'll actually watch. They

473
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 4: will learn something immersively that will help save some child's

474
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 4: life or their own life because they've been abused. They

475
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 4: will know or they've been groomed like my parents, my mother.

476
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 4: I have to tell you this because it was so sweet.

477
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 4: She was yelling and kind of yelled at the TV

478
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: at one point when we were watching the whole thing

479
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 4: over again. My mom will come in from doing her gardening.

480
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 4: She loves to be outside and come in and sit

481
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 4: down and turn on the series. And I'm in and out.

482
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 4: I got stuff to do. You know. I couldn't sit

483
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 4: there and watch it ten times over the last month.

484
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 4: But she was. When I came into the living room

485
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 4: and was bringing her something to eat, I said, Mom,

486
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 4: it doesn't seem like you've eaten all day. Oh, I

487
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 4: can't eat. I can't eat. I mean, I can see,

488
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: I can see why I fell in love with this guy.

489
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 4: He is so charming. He is a monster. Oh my word,

490
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 4: I hate him. I'd never heard my mother say, wow,

491
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 4: I can see why I was so charmed by him.

492
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 4: Oh my word, I hate him for what he's doing

493
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 4: to all of us. I mean, she had an experience,

494
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 4: and she's the one that wrote the book right. Wow.

495
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 4: She's written in our story for years and years, long

496
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 4: before we ever knew we were going to publish what

497
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 4: she was writing. She was just doing this as a

498
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 4: kind of a cathartic family history, so that I knew

499
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 4: what was happening at home, and she knew what was

500
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 4: happening to me. And we didn't even talk really in

501
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 4: depth about all the icky stuff until you know, in

502
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 4: recent years. Really, I mean, I said icky stuff, but

503
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 4: I didn't, you know, still have the courage or the

504
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 4: words or I didn't want to hurt her or whatever

505
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,479
Speaker 4: those things her. Yeah, So anyway, it was, it's been

506
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: an interesting experience.

507
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So a relationship developed between him and your mom

508
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: slowly over time, the sexual relationship.

509
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 3: And there was also an incident with your dad, right.

510
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 4: Yes, right, both of them. So the way he manipulated

511
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 4: my father kind of played upon those teenage boy experiences

512
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 4: and that he just had no sexual fulfillment at all

513
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 4: in his life. And and it was a masturbation experience

514
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 4: in a in a car, in his car, and so that,

515
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 4: you know, he then used that this was all before

516
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 4: the first kidnapping. I don't feel like that's really clear.

517
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 4: And it happened a number of months before the kidnapping,

518
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 4: And so that I think was part of my dad

519
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 4: starting to kind of pull away because he felt so guilty.

520
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 4: He went and told his church authorities, and I want

521
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 4: to repent. I can't believe I did this thing. But

522
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 4: he never really definitively defined what had happened to my mom,

523
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 4: just like Marianna did something I'm so embarrassed about and

524
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 4: you know, forgive me. And it was, you know, it

525
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 4: was this boy boy stuff. I don't know if he

526
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 4: said it quite like that, but I don't know that

527
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: he had been real explicit. I think she kind of

528
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 4: knew more or less, but anyway, you know, And so

529
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: he goes through that whole process. But in that process,

530
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 4: he starts to be like, not suspicious, like something's wrong

531
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 4: with him, not that, not that so much because he's

532
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 4: already his best friend. You know. It's not that. It's

533
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 4: more like, we spend too much time with his family.

534
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 4: We need to have our own, our own family time.

535
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 4: You know, this has gotten out of control. We have

536
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 4: other family members that we would like to see, you

537
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 4: know that we just have to say back. And I

538
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 4: believe that that pulling back of my dad because of

539
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 4: what had happened, and he felt so guilty about it.

540
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 4: My dad was such a good man and such a

541
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 4: believer in you know, the basic ten commandments that I

542
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: think he just kind of with that in the background,

543
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 4: and trying to repent of that and and just stepping

544
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 4: back is what gave Birch told that I got to

545
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 4: go through with my plan, you know. So you look

546
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 4: back on it and you go, oh, my gosh, how

547
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 4: could they have known this and that entity know that,

548
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 4: and Gail know this, and not everybody putting it together

549
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 4: so that my parents could have protected themselves. It's just

550
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 4: it's but it still happens today. People don't know what

551
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 4: they don't know. They don't even know what questions to

552
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: ask har you know, like your mother, you know, like

553
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 4: she's slowly led down to this place of you know,

554
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 4: being manipulated and brainwashed and isolated. That's the key word

555
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 4: right there. If you can divide and conquer and isolate

556
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 4: people in their own world cult close cults.

557
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 2: Yep, and find all their vulnerabilities and praying on them

558
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: and you know, utilize.

559
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 3: Their own existing belief systems and all.

560
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: The things they want, and you know, offering your mom

561
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: maybe some romance or all the things.

562
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 5: That they're afraid of.

563
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: Yep.

564
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: In my mom case was losing her children for eternity.

565
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 4: You know, That's what happened with my parents they signed

566
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 4: those affidavits that people go nuts in the documentary and

567
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, they signed them because they were threatened

568
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 4: that they would make a case that they were unfit

569
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 4: parents and have us girls taken away from them, right

570
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 4: as well as the experience that my dad had right anyway, Like,

571
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 4: but my parents retracted those three days later. That didn't

572
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 4: make the documentary, like they they wrote into the newspaper article.

573
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 4: That's like, oh, Roberts retract their statements. Affidavits are you know,

574
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 4: trashed and the case will go on in federal court.

575
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about what that

576
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: was and then tell us the part about how they

577
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: took it back three days later.

578
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, So after the first kidnapping, my parents had been

579
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 4: called by the attorney for Birch told who said, we

580
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 4: can make all of this go away if you will

581
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 4: just come down here and talk to me. Now, mind you,

582
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 4: my parents don't have an attorney. My parents have never

583
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: had a speeding ticket. They don't even know I've never

584
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 4: been inside the court house.

585
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: And by saying that this will all go away, like

586
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: he's blackmailing your father at this point for the sexual

587
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: thing we will happen.

588
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 5: To tell people about the encounter that we had.

589
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: And also, this is the LDS church, where homosexual interactions

590
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: are like, you know, considered horrible.

591
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 4: And yeah, and she wasn't LDS. His attorney was not

592
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 4: a member of the church, but she had a lot

593
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 4: of LDS friends, because you know, thirty percent of our

594
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 4: neighborhood was the people you went to church with, and

595
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 4: the other seventy percent were people that went to the

596
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: Methodist church or the Presbyterian church, or everybody went to church.

597
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 4: We all had all kinds of friends. But she knew exactly,

598
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: this attorney what to say to my parents. That she

599
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 4: basically said, sign these affidavits and then we won't talk.

600
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 4: We won't have to tell people about the sexual encounter

601
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 4: that your husband had. Otherwise we will make a case

602
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 4: if you don't sign these, we will make a case

603
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: that your unfit parents, that you knew this man had problems,

604
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 4: even though her other defenses, well, he didn't hurt her,

605
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 4: she went with him willingly. So it's very interesting all

606
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 4: the ways that he also manipulated my parents when they

607
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 4: were alone with her, to say, we'll make a case

608
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 4: that they're unfit parents, and we'll get your children taken

609
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: away from you. Well, that was so scary to my parents,

610
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 4: who love their children, of course, and my dad was

611
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: like okay, and my mother's like, well, we'll sign it.

612
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 4: I don't want Bob to face, you know, the people

613
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 4: thinking that you know that he's a homosexual, you know,

614
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 4: and whatever my dad was, you know, to his dying day,

615
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 4: He's like, I was not a homosexual, but I was

616
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 4: definitely in the wrong to have this masturbation experience with

617
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 4: him in the as a grown man. But you know,

618
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 4: he could make you do anything. He could make you

619
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 4: feel like you were sixteen. So they signed affidavits and

620
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 4: then three days later they retracted the affidavits. That part

621
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 4: is not in the documentary. They retracted them and said

622
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 4: we're sorry that we signed them. My dad said, I

623
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 4: don't care who knows that. I don't care what they

624
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 4: think of me. We're moving forward with the Fedral case.

625
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 4: You know, they retracted them, and there's a newspaper article

626
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 4: about that that didn't.

627
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: Make that that it's an important detail. So I'm so

628
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: thank you for mentioning it.

629
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: I think we forgot to ask about before he kidnap

630
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: you the first time practice laying in bed with you

631
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: with permission from your parents, because I believe he also

632
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: used that as part of the black mail, Like you

633
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: knew I had issues. I told you I had to

634
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: lay in bed with her. You didn't think that was

635
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: weird at all.

636
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 4: So therapy is a new practice, and I did not

637
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 4: know that this was an actual therapy that was tried

638
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 4: out that was later debunked, like it doesn't work. So

639
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 4: whether he knew about this therapy or he actually had

640
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 4: a therapist that told him to do this, I'm not sure.

641
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 4: But he definitely had the headphones. He definitely was listening

642
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 4: to something. And what he told my parents is that

643
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 4: I'm supposed to lay by a child that is the

644
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 4: same sex as the person who first started my depression,

645
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 4: my depressive you know problems, my problems with depression and obsession.

646
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 4: So jan is the right age. It was my aunt.

647
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 4: I was five, she was ten eleven, you know, she

648
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 4: was in that age range. And she is the one

649
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 4: that I that all of my you know, depression and

650
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 4: my abuse things started with her, and so that I

651
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 4: want I'm going to lay by her. These things are

652
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 4: about twenty minutes long. He's on top of the bed,

653
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 4: he is not under the.

654
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: Covers, the door is open.

655
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: The door is open, my mom is putting laundry away.

656
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: You know, it's only twenty it's I mean, it doesn't

657
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 4: sound like a long time, but twenty minutes is not

658
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 4: a very long time. And then he'd come upstairs and

659
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 4: talk to my parents and say, I think it's getting better.

660
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 4: I really do. Now. There are some things that we

661
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 4: know now that he confessed to or told somebody that

662
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 4: he was masturbating to whatever he was listening to. Somehow

663
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 4: that was pulled out. But I was dead asleep. I

664
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 4: don't ever remember even being there. Now. I don't know

665
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: if it was enough just blame by me, or if

666
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 4: there was something he was I don't know because he

667
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 4: I never woke up to that and my parents never

668
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 4: saw anything. But he did say that in something that

669
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 4: my sister Susan was pointing out the other day. She goes,

670
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: he did confess to having these fantasies and that he

671
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: would masturbate sometimes or sexually touch himself or something when

672
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: he would listen to those. Right. That was all before

673
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 4: the first kidnapping.

674
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: Completely.

675
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, my father never let him back in our lives

676
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 4: or our house. It was his daughter's and his wife

677
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 4: that were such good friends with his wife and his

678
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 4: kids that were begging, please, we want to play with

679
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 4: these These are our friends. Why should we suffer because

680
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: the grown ups think that he did something bad. Just

681
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: let us have our friends back. Yeah, you know, I'm

682
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 4: playing along with that. I want my friends too.

683
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the first kidnapping and kind

684
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: of just describe what happened before you go into that.

685
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: Can I just did you notice any special interest in

686
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: you in particular before this happened?

687
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 4: Not me as a as a nine, ten, eleven, twelve

688
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 4: year old, I didn't notice other than I was always

689
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 4: happy that I got invited because his oldest son and

690
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 4: I we had a real crush on each other, like

691
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 4: like a childhood oh you crush. And he used that

692
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 4: he used his own kids wow, because he's like, well,

693
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 4: Jerry wants her to go on this trip so bad.

694
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 4: If you don't let her go, none of us are

695
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: going on this trip to Seattle. This was one of

696
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 4: the family vacations that I got to go on, and

697
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 4: we were going to go see, you know, a show,

698
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 4: and I'm a little actress and I love all that.

699
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 4: There was a lot of tactics that he could use.

700
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 4: But the main one that actually kind of worked was,

701
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: you know, Jerry is just dead stated he's been planning

702
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 4: on jan going on this trip with us. And this

703
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: was weren't during the time when my dad had started

704
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 4: to kind of pull back, and he's like, no, she

705
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 4: doesn't need to go on your family vacation. But you know,

706
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: we've brought my best friend Caroline on our family vacations,

707
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 4: you know. So it wasn't it wasn't a weird idea

708
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 4: at the time, but it was definitely my dad resisting.

709
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 4: But then he caved in and said, okay, all right.

710
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 4: You know, you guys always win, you know, get your way,

711
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 4: And that was kind of how bird Stold operated. He

712
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: always got his way. And so there are those things

713
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: that had happened that led up to when he picked

714
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 4: me up for my piano lesson. He had taken me

715
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: horseback riding before with his oldest son. With Jerry, we

716
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 4: had gone a couple of times to this particular place

717
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 4: and he had clients, furniture store clients all over the

718
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: greater you know, Idaho area, and he said, look, I've

719
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 4: got to take some measurements out of this house. And

720
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 4: so they have the ranch and the horses, and I'll

721
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 4: take jan and give her another horseback riding lesson since

722
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 4: I'm going out there anyway. And my dad was like, no,

723
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 4: it's a school night, we have plans, she's not going.

724
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 4: And so of course then he calls my mom and says,

725
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 4: comes over, and he's like, Mary Anne, please, just I'll

726
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 4: have her back before dinner, before Bob will even know

727
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: that she's gone, I'll have her back. You know, she's

728
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 4: going to be so disappointed. She's been counting on this

729
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 4: and I don't get out there that often. And she's

730
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 4: really good at riding horses. That goes back to your list.

731
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 4: She's so talented, you know, she's really amazing. She really

732
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 4: should be riding, you know. And none of that was

733
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 4: really even true, but anyway, but that's what he would say,

734
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 4: and he would get his way, and she's like, oh, okay,

735
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 4: Bob's going to be mad, but go ahead, take her,

736
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 4: pick her up from her pianists, and be sure you're

737
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 4: home before six o'clock, before you know, before our bob

738
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 4: our dad's name is Bob is home from work. He said,

739
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 4: of course I will, and it'll be fine. So he

740
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 4: picks me up from piano, which again it's like your

741
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 4: favorite uncle, brother in law person, you know, you know them. Yeah,

742
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 4: it's not like weird off. We go to go horseback riding.

743
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 4: He hands me my allergy pill, which he was instrumental

744
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 4: in getting all of us girls' allergy pills, because he's like,

745
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 4: your girls are just like always they've got allergies. And

746
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 4: sure enough, we did some testing and we were allergic

747
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 4: to horses and cats and a few things. How convenient, Yeah,

748
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: super convenient. So then he had taken out whatever was

749
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 4: in that allergy pill and put a sleeping something in it,

750
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 4: and I fell into a deep, deep sleep. I remember

751
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 4: being in the car. I remember heading that way. Remember

752
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 4: it was a sunny, pretty fall afternoon and leaning kind

753
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 4: of on the you know, the I used to crawl

754
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 4: down and get on the floorboards by the heater, you know,

755
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 4: but this day it was warm, and I had my

756
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 4: face kind of on the side of the door, and

757
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 4: I remember just falling asleep and then probably just kind

758
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 4: of laying down in the seat. I can imagine that's

759
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 4: what I would do, because I you know, we didn't

760
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 4: have seat belts that we even wore back in the day, but.

761
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: That wasn't even a thing yet, so you never made

762
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: it to horseback riding. You just fall into this deep

763
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: sleep after he gives you this pill.

764
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 4: Right, And the next thing I remember is waking up.

765
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 4: I'm in the back of a motor home. There's a

766
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 4: partition I can't see beyond the bed and the little

767
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 4: bathroom and the little mini cooler kind of thing. And

768
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 4: I mean, I can barely get my head up because

769
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 4: I'm strapped with leather straps around my wrists and my

770
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 4: ankles to this bed and laying on the top of

771
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 4: this bed. And I wake up to this sound of

772
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 4: this kind of high pitched monotone, staccato type, you know,

773
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 4: choppy voice, and it's calling me female companion, you know,

774
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 4: it talks like this, and I immediately, you know, within seconds,

775
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 4: I was so terrified that I had been taken by

776
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 4: a UFO. It was wow in the fabric everything in

777
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: our lives, including our favorite dive we used to go

778
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 4: to called the Tasty Treat, the Home of the Space Burger.

779
00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

780
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: And he was taking you to sci fi movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

781
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: I didn't make that connection.

782
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: So you've I've been talking about UFOs. Aliens have been

783
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 2: like a part of the commerce.

784
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 3: You have a mission.

785
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: It's telling you you have a mission, right, tell.

786
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: Me, I have a mission. This is soil watching me

787
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 4: since I was born, and then over the course of

788
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 4: about what it feels to me, like I don't know

789
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 4: exactly because time is all messed up because I'm in

790
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 4: and out of this deep sleep. But I that I'm unrestrained,

791
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: you know. Hours later the boys comes on again. I

792
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 4: wake up. I don't have restraints. Now it says, go eat.

793
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 4: We have your favorite foods in the refrigerator. We've been

794
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 4: watching you your whole life. So the tuna fish sandwich,

795
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 4: the almondjoy bar, the squirt, I mean, the things that

796
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 4: are my favorite things are in the bridge.

797
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: Right, So you're not like this is a horrible this

798
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: is they're out to get me.

799
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 4: You're like, yeah, there's some kind of benevolence here, but

800
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 4: it's terrifying, but it's still well. Then I lay back,

801
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 4: you know, go to the bathroom, eat, laid back down.

802
00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 4: The next time I wake up, I'm restrained again, and

803
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 4: the voices talking about this mission. You're a special child.

804
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 4: You're going to save our planet. You'll have a baby

805
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 4: to save the planet. Female companion, female companion, female companion, this,

806
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: that the other until finally, what I think is about

807
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 4: two days in or maybe a day and a half,

808
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 4: I don't know. It says to me the box and

809
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 4: I'm unrestrained. It says, female companion. Go to the front

810
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 4: of the motor home, and there you will find the

811
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 4: male companion. That's what it calls him. I'm the female companion,

812
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 4: he's the male companion. I still am not connecting any

813
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 4: dots that this is going to mean rape, that this

814
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 4: is going to mean sexual assault and abuse.

815
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 1: I don't You're just excited to see another human being

816
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: at those points.

817
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 4: I'm assuming I think I'm as excited. I don't know,

818
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: because it could be start the moment that I get

819
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 4: past that partition and I see him and he was

820
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 4: laying on the couch of the motor home, and he

821
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 4: had covered himself in blood. I mean he had blood

822
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 4: on his arms and hands, he had blood on his forehead,

823
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 4: I mean, he was he was pretty what looked like

824
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 4: banged up. I don't know how much of it was

825
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 4: real from him hitting the window of the car, because

826
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 4: that's what the police found, that the window had been

827
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 4: smashed from the inside out.

828
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: He left the car behind that you guys had gone

829
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: from the piano to the Yeah, so he left the car, yes,

830
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: into the right stage the crime scene and left got.

831
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 4: It exactly, And the car was kind of down in

832
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 4: a ditchy area. It wasn't easy to find, but they

833
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 4: found it. And so I'm thinking he's dead. I'm like

834
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 4: shaking him and waking him up, and I'm like BB,

835
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 4: you know, I called him b and he called me Dolly.

836
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 4: That was my nickname, Dolly. Comes to what happened? I

837
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 4: saw this light and the car went out of control.

838
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 4: Oh no, And he's looking at his own wounds, and

839
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 4: I'm crying and I'm getting, you know, a wash cloth

840
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 4: and trying to you know, this is the person that

841
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 4: I love. This is the person that's familiar. This is

842
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 4: like your favorite uncle. But you're so glad you're not alone.

843
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 4: I don't know what male companion means. I don't know

844
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 4: what saving a dying planet meets. I just know that

845
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 4: I've been being talked to by aliens. So I've started

846
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 4: to tell him the story and then he just of course,

847
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 4: you know, reiterates and makes it, you know, brings it

848
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 4: all home over and over and over again for the

849
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 4: next four years of my life, that I think I'm

850
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 4: being watched, that i think I'm half alien half human,

851
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 4: and that I'm to have a child to save this

852
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: dying alien planet. And so I'm like, you know, Mary,

853
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: this is where you take a religious concept and you

854
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 4: twist it to your own designs. It's like, I'm in

855
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 4: the middle of the Joseph Jesus and you know, Mary

856
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 4: and God the Father story, right, I'm in the middle

857
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 4: of that. I'm the person that's going to have the

858
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 4: child that's going to save the planet. And you can

859
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 4: take those things that are familiar. We've been acting out

860
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 4: that story on Christmas Eve my whole life, you know,

861
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 4: and even if it's never said to the child in

862
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 4: that way, there's enough familiarity that it's more than plausible.

863
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: What else is interesting about that is that in that story,

864
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: you don't actually have to have sex to have the baby, right.

865
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 3: And Jesus, Yeah, exactly, So.

866
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: You aren't even really thinking that maybe at that right, Yeah.

867
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 4: I mean, none of that is even clear at all.

868
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 4: And he you know, he was a slow burn kind

869
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 4: of predator, and I'm positive it's because he had had

870
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 4: another girl right before me that was that thing I

871
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 4: talked about in the in our church, that it was

872
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 4: a thing that I now have seen the actual document

873
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 4: that says that he was going to be either disciplined

874
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 4: or excommunicated. I can't remember the word for inappropriate behavior

875
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 4: with a minor female. And that piece of paper which

876
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 4: a person none of us knew about until very recently.

877
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 4: We've never seen that before. That was ten months before

878
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 4: this kidnapping.

879
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 2: So he's learning, he's learning to go slow, he's learning

880
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: to be more careful.

881
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 4: He was a slow, methodical, calculus lady and predator.

882
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: So how did you get back home this first time?

883
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 6: Basically about forty days later, the FBI and working with

884
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 6: the federals in Mexico, there had been a phone call

885
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 6: they had been able to trace that it had came

886
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 6: from Maslam, Mexico, that came to his brother's car dealership,

887
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 6: and they traced it.

888
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 4: The FBI was involved with those tape recording type devices

889
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 4: on our phones and on several different phones and at

890
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 4: this point, and they traced it and found us in Maslam, Mexico.

891
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 4: The federalies came and the early morning hours broke down

892
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 4: the door and took us in a car and off

893
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 4: we went to the prison. I was in a little

894
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 4: room by myself and scared to death, and he was

895
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 4: in a cell, and he paid a guard with his

896
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 4: wedding ring he gave to a guard who then brought

897
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: me from the little room to his cell, and he

898
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 4: told me that Zeta and Zetra, the names of the

899
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 4: aliens in the box, had come to him and had

900
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 4: communicated with him that there were four things we couldn't

901
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 4: talk about the mission, them the sleeping relaxing pills that

902
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 4: helped me sleep, and the baby stuff, and that if

903
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 4: we did, we would be vaporized. And that for me

904
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 4: was like the scariest threat of all. Not only had

905
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 4: my family been threatened, that if I didn't perform the mission,

906
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 4: then my sister would be taken in my place, my

907
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 4: other sister Karen, if I didn't follow the rules, she

908
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 4: would go blind. My father would be removed, which I

909
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 4: knew meant killed, but that I would be vaporized if

910
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 4: I did not fulfill the mission, and that was both

911
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 4: my body and my soul. And for a little believing

912
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 4: Mormon girl, thinking that her soul doesn't go on.

913
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: Right, there's no option?

914
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, oh right?

915
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 4: So I did I did everything I was told through

916
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 4: him or those aliens who were telling him, you know,

917
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 4: what we had to do. And of course, you know,

918
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 4: the sexual assault and abuse is and ongoing throughout those

919
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 4: forty days, but I tell no one, and he was

920
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 4: careful there too. And it's the seventies. They don't have

921
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 4: the same ways of figuring out if there's been you know,

922
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 4: feul play and the hymen was intact and all those things.

923
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 4: When I got home that I played the part perfectly,

924
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 4: that nothing had happened and everybody should just leave, you know,

925
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 4: stop blaming b We just went on a vacation and

926
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 4: he couldn't come home because of course this was his story.

927
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 4: Well I couldn't come home. You guys called the FBI.

928
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 4: I just had a depressive break and then I drove

929
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 4: and drove that day and all of a sudden, I'm

930
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 4: over the border in Mexico. And now it's.

931
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know right what He's using this excuse of like,

932
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 2: of mental illness to justify his actions basically, which is

933
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: also very smart because then it puts other people in

934
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: a position of like, what are you are you like

935
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 2: blaming me for having mental illness and using his.

936
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: Wife and their children as like, don't ruin their lives.

937
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: Don't make this into a big deal so that my

938
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: wife has to suffer and my children have to suffer.

939
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: And you guys are like, oh my god, you just

940
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: had a mental break in your poor family. Okay, we're all.

941
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: Gonna and you're upholding the story as well that nothing's

942
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: all happened.

943
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 4: So the things happened, Yeah, everything line, And then I

944
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 4: just start getting notes from people at school. I start

945
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 4: getting instructions to go to every place from trailer parks

946
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 4: to phone booths and there either is Birch told because

947
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 4: people don't also understand that, you know, it doesn't even

948
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 4: go to any sort of hearing or anything for it.

949
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 4: Over a year. I mean he's back at church. He's

950
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 4: now out of jail in Mexico, paid the bill, he's

951
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 4: a church with his family.

952
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, nothing to see here, folks, like we fixed it.

953
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: Got a little crazy for five days, and I'm back,

954
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: not a.

955
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 4: Little depressive, manic break. And you know, people don't know

956
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 4: much about mental illness then either, so they're all kind

957
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 4: of like, well, what will his wife do? He didn't

958
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 4: hurt her. I mean, they love him, everybody knows him.

959
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 4: And and he's got everybody.

960
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 2: In the community, right, like, the community does not want

961
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 2: to see him go down.

962
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh, I mean, what will his wife do? She

963
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 4: doesn't work, she doesn't have a career. Five kids, you know,

964
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 4: he's good to his kids, and and what will what

965
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,959
Speaker 4: will they do? And a lot of pressure from other

966
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 4: friends of ours in our in our close knit community.

967
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 4: They go, yeah, so much more complicated than that easy.

968
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 4: You know, everybody thinks that they know what they would

969
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 4: do or whatever. It looks.

970
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 3: It is funny.

971
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 2: That is a larious classic bias my own profit and quotations.

972
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 2: He it's not exactly the same. But he told my

973
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 2: mom that there were three knee fights that he was

974
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: talking to her these like otherworldly eternal beings and they

975
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 2: were the ones giving him the instructions and over time

976
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: to his his next followers, because now he has a

977
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 2: whole bigger group. He like kind of describes them as aliens.

978
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: It's so funny. There's like a playbook. They like all

979
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: pull from the same shit, you know, right, And.

980
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: The thing is is that you're like, this is this

981
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 4: happened to adults. It's like the same concepts that you think, well, okay,

982
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 4: I can I can swallow it if it's a child

983
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 4: and they're scared and da da da and they're isolated.

984
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 4: But people really don't understand how much these are extreme

985
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 4: cases of brainwashing that we're talking about with your mother

986
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 4: and this man. But you know, I remember picking up

987
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 4: at some thrift store one day going, oh, that's that

988
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 4: book that that Chad day Bell wrote. And I picked

989
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 4: it up and it had been sugned by him. Wow.

990
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 4: Inside Wow, I'm just like, is this something? And I

991
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 4: took it home because I was like, I want to

992
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 4: see I'm going to read it at some point. I

993
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 4: wasn't ready to read it at that moment because it

994
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 4: was all just starting to come out with it, you know,

995
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 4: trying to find a kid, all of that. But someday

996
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 4: I want to read it to see how he slowly

997
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 4: manipulates this idea throughout this book, you know, and how

998
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 4: people can come into it. Because every time I hear

999
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 4: another brainwashing story, it really is helpful to me because

1000
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 4: I realize, you know, not only am I not alone,

1001
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 4: but I realize how the slow path is. And that's

1002
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 4: why I say to other people, I don't care what

1003
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 4: it is you believe in, just make sure you have

1004
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 4: enough questions, and that you are not told that you

1005
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 4: can't ask your questions and that there can't be things

1006
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 4: that you don't believe in. I do love my community

1007
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 4: and following the basics of serving your neighbor and loving

1008
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 4: people and those things. I have these things I'm good

1009
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 4: with and I like to be reminded. But things that

1010
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 4: I don't think are right, I'm not going to ascribe

1011
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 4: to those things. And that's okay. You can have. I

1012
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 4: have something to believe in that's bigger than myself because

1013
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 4: to me, that helps me get through the hard times

1014
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,919
Speaker 4: in life. But at the same time, I don't hang

1015
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 4: all my on any one thing. You have to be curious.

1016
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 4: You have to ask questions, and if it doesn't work

1017
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 4: for you, move on.

1018
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: And if you if you're if the person or group

1019
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 2: that you believe in is telling you that they're the

1020
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: only place that has the answers, and you will be

1021
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 2: punished if you look for anything else in another place.

1022
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 4: Also, Yeah, you can take somebody the people hold very

1023
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 4: sacred or very dear and manipulate it. Yeah, if you

1024
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 4: if you do it.

1025
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 2: Slowly, Okay, you guys, stay tuned for part two next

1026
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: week because there is more to the story. Somehow, this

1027
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 2: is not the end, and Jana has so much to say.

1028
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 2: So anyway, though, for now, Megan, can you just like

1029
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 2: tell me do you think that you would be susceptible

1030
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: to the idea that aliens were communicating with you?

1031
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 3: Absolutely?

1032
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: I could not think of anything I would be more

1033
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: susceptible to.

1034
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 2: I think, like one of the things that you know,

1035
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 2: she mentioned was that he had been exposing them to

1036
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: lots of sci fi movies and like alien related stuff.

1037
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And I think that that is really crucial

1038
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: and important because right now, in this moment in the

1039
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 2: zeitgeist and the culture, we are talking about aliens so much.

1040
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: There's like so much UFO content, and of course that's

1041
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 2: largely because of those like Pentagon videos of actual uapi's

1042
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 2: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena phenomena. So I'm part of it. I'm

1043
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: like fascinated by it. I want to know is their

1044
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: life out there? Are they communicating with us? And a

1045
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 2: lot of people are on board with this. So my

1046
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 2: prediction is that there will be a surge of UFO

1047
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: cults over the next ten years.

1048
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 3: That's my prediction. I fully am on board for that. Prediction.

1049
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: I think there will be too, and hopefully there will

1050
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: be some actual real contact.

1051
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 3: So I'm primed and ready.

1052
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 5: I hope so too.

1053
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 2: Although the thought of how differently everyone would react to

1054
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: it is something that I think about sometimes and that

1055
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: scares me because we're so divided as a humanity. How

1056
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: could we possibly not just end up destroying ourselves over them?

1057
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,439
Speaker 3: Or I don't know, I don't know, we don't that's

1058
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 3: the exciting part. We don't know, so we'll find out.

1059
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 3: I guess it's just one day.

1060
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll find out more about jan next week

1061
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: because her story just gets crazier from here, so fascinating.

1062
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for spending this time with us.

1063
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: We can't wait to see you again next week.

1064
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: As always, remember to follow your gut, watch out for

1065
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 1: red flags.

1066
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 5: And never ever trust me. Bye bye.

1067
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1068
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1069
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1070
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 5: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1071
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1072
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult pod, or on TikTok at

1073
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1074
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Loola on Instagram and oh La Lola on Twitter.

1075
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: And I Am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Abraham

1076
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1077
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,959
Speaker 5: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.