Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 2: Done done, Yay, that's messed up an SVU podcast. I'm
Speaker 2: Lisa coming at you and I'm Kara right behind. What's
Speaker 2: going on, guys, I am embarrassed.
Speaker 1: This is our podcast about Law and Order SVU. We
Speaker 1: recap episodes, we talk about true crimes are based on
Speaker 1: and we talk to guests and we've got a good
Speaker 1: one for you today.
Speaker 3: But first we like to just chit chat.
Speaker 1: And now that Lisa's moved across the country, for me,
Speaker 1: it's one of the only times I ever.
Speaker 3: Got to talk to No. I actually text you pretty
Speaker 3: much all day.
Speaker 2: Way, did you end up ever posting that photo of.
Speaker 3: Rosy and Oscar? I'm gonna post it today. I forgot.
Speaker 1: But how fun was that When I was helping Lisa move,
Speaker 1: she had this huge, like it looks like a rolling
Speaker 1: pin of saran wrap, and my kids found it and
Speaker 1: were obsessed. They were like, it's a huge rolling pin.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, no, it's saran wrap. And
Speaker 1: I was showing it to them and they were like,
Speaker 1: wrap it around us. So I ended up like dextering
Speaker 1: my children and they just like are in a little
Speaker 1: They're both wearing like tube dresses made out of you know,
Speaker 1: soran and it's funny. It'll be up on my Instagram
Speaker 1: by the time you listen to this intro. Also, by
Speaker 1: the time you listen to this intro, I will have
Speaker 1: returned from a relaxing five days on the island of
Speaker 1: Saint John. I have like not been. I just gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: I guess Caribbean. I've been to the Bahamas. That's it.
Speaker 1: Didn't you go to Aruba? Yeah, you're right, Aruba, that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's two places. That's pretty good. Those trips are
Speaker 1: fifteen years apart from each other, I think, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like one was twenty nineteen and one was like two
Speaker 1: thousand and and four. And you're going, what is it
Speaker 1: Saint John or talking about John Saint John? I guess
Speaker 1: it's a US. It's a US Virgin Island. It'll be
Speaker 1: you and your friend kicking it up. Also our other
Speaker 1: friend who you've met before, who lives up northern California,
Speaker 1: she'll be there at the beginning and then like we
Speaker 1: overlap for like two days, and then the last part
Speaker 1: is just me and my friend.
Speaker 3: And anything on the docket or just like beach Pool
Speaker 3: drinks lounge. I think beach Pool drinks.
Speaker 1: I mean she goes there all the time because her
Speaker 1: family has like a place there, so she knows like
Speaker 1: where to get like weed and where to have fun.
Speaker 1: So I guess I'll just be following her lead. But yeah,
Speaker 1: no big plans on the docket.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 1: Oh, I will be passing Epstein's Island on my fairy
Speaker 1: ride from the airport to the island.
Speaker 3: Well, you better take photos of it, Yeah, I will.
Speaker 1: And she also said that we can kind of see
Speaker 1: it from her family's balcony, and I was like, that's terrifying,
Speaker 1: but okay.
Speaker 2: Yes, but for someone with a crime podcast, I feel
Speaker 2: like being near Epstein's Island and even close because sex
Speaker 2: Crimes podcast that is it's kind.
Speaker 3: Of it is wild. It is sort of like a
Speaker 3: monument I have to at least observe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like going to the World War two, you
Speaker 2: know the names or in DC, it's like you just
Speaker 2: gotta and you know they've.
Speaker 1: Done like two different I know you know this, but
Speaker 1: they've done two different arcs of Epstein on SVU, and
Speaker 1: we have to decide which one we want to do.
Speaker 3: I don't want to research it. I'll tell you that
Speaker 3: much it I'll do it. Yeah, it'll be me, It'll
Speaker 3: be me. I'll do it. But it is wild that
Speaker 3: they did an episode on SVU.
Speaker 2: Way before this was like a common knowledge thing, but
Speaker 2: everyone always knew. It's kind of like like Harvey Weinstein,
Speaker 2: like everyone knew what was going on if you were
Speaker 2: a part of that world. So open secrets, I mean.
Speaker 2: But the one of the funniest things I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my whole life. A few halloweens ago, Tim Dillon
Speaker 2: dressed like the Epstein like temple building and they did
Speaker 2: like a man on the Street interviews as the temple.
Speaker 2: And that is when I went listen, he deserves everything
Speaker 2: he has in his life.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is comedy, Like, this is the best
Speaker 3: thing I've ever seen. Yeah, no subjects off limits for
Speaker 3: that guy.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, did I tell you that I'm bringing Rosie
Speaker 1: to Disneyland for her birthday.
Speaker 2: I was there when you were trying to come up
Speaker 2: with the plans, So yeah, I know that's being planned out.
Speaker 1: Because I stupidly thought that Lego Land was close by
Speaker 1: and it's not. And so we're going to Disney, which
Speaker 1: I was trying to put off for as long as possible,
Speaker 1: but now we're doing it. It's our friend is coming
Speaker 1: and bringing her daughter, and then Rosie's bringing her other
Speaker 1: little bestie, so it's gonna be two adults, three kids.
Speaker 3: I already bought the tickets. You bought the tickets. I
Speaker 3: bought the tickets.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to be paying for them for
Speaker 1: I cannot believe what an expensive place that is, like
Speaker 1: for a day there, I just cannot believe how much
Speaker 1: money it is.
Speaker 3: It's so crazy. What is a two hundred ticket? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a little under two hundred.
Speaker 1: And then I kind of added on for the Genie
Speaker 1: Pass because everyone's like, you kind of need it, and
Speaker 1: it's only thirty dollars more, and when you're already spending
Speaker 1: that much, what's another thirty dollars? You know?
Speaker 3: So like, but if.
Speaker 2: Everyone is getting it, how does it Genie Pass? Like
Speaker 2: how I don't understand how any of this works now?
Speaker 2: And now you could sign up online and.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can do it if you're
Speaker 1: a season pass holder, and I think that's a lot
Speaker 1: of people that go all the time. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's a great question. If everybody's genieing,
Speaker 1: then like, are you a genie? Like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, but I'll find out. But if anybody's listening
Speaker 1: and you have Disneyland tips for going with children, of
Speaker 1: course they do. I've already received a couple of very
Speaker 1: good tips, Please DM them to me. I really want
Speaker 1: this to be seamless.
Speaker 3: What are the tips here? To God?
Speaker 1: Like, everything you do is on the app, and the
Speaker 1: app drains your battery, so you have to bring like
Speaker 1: an external charger for your phone.
Speaker 3: Great tip. Great, yep.
Speaker 1: You got to order your food like in advance so
Speaker 1: that you just pick it up. You can bring a stroller,
Speaker 1: and it's like great to have a stroller. Even though
Speaker 1: my kids a little older, I'm going to bring a
Speaker 1: stroller just because we can put all of our shit
Speaker 1: in there and they can hop onto it. You know
Speaker 1: that when we go to things, I have four kids
Speaker 1: hanging off that stroller. Oscar sits up top, three kids
Speaker 1: hang on the side of it, and I push all
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: I love that your arms are probably so strong.
Speaker 3: I get a full workout uphill at the zoo. Are
Speaker 3: you kidding? A little butt little a little ug glute action.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just wanted to put that out there,
Speaker 1: since you guys are all the most knowledgeable people in
Speaker 1: the world, I wanted I wanted everyone to tell me
Speaker 1: they're little Disney.
Speaker 2: They're gonna have so many I mean, I honestly, like
Speaker 2: I understand, like you're planning a whole day. I order
Speaker 2: your food and pick it up in the app. That's easy,
Speaker 2: that's your card is there? Perfect? But yeah, it also
Speaker 2: sickens me, like everything you know, like just walk around.
Speaker 1: But everybody says it's like a well oiled machine. It's
Speaker 1: like really really like like they say about SVU, Like
Speaker 1: everyone's tickets really well organized. It's so I'm I'm hoping
Speaker 1: that it's not. We're not like hopping to different parks
Speaker 1: like if you you know, or like the shit you
Speaker 1: do in Orlando, because that's the only place I've ever been.
Speaker 1: I've never been to Land. But isn't this crazy that
Speaker 1: we I just brought this up.
Speaker 3: Kind of on a whim.
Speaker 1: But the guest that we talked to today, does talk
Speaker 1: about that with us? Oh my god, we did talk
Speaker 1: extensively with our guest about this. I didn't even realize. Yes,
Speaker 1: And then I saw someone else that does it that night.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the girl one of the girls that does
Speaker 2: the hair at the salon. She's a big Disney girl
Speaker 2: and she she has a season pass and she goes
Speaker 2: and dresses up and does all of it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I get it. It's magical. Nostalgia's in.
Speaker 1: I mean whatever, I just have to, like, I have
Speaker 1: to do something so that Rosie's not trying to buy
Speaker 1: ten million things. Like I have to be like, you
Speaker 1: get one thing, so pick it, like she's just gonna
Speaker 1: ask me for everything.
Speaker 2: Well that's also what our friends said, do not buy
Speaker 2: something in the beginning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like let's wait, tell me what you want at
Speaker 1: the end and we'll go back to it or.
Speaker 2: Whatever, right, Yeah, or something that's not like a full toy,
Speaker 2: because our friends said last time they went, the girls
Speaker 2: just wanted to play with their new toys and they
Speaker 2: were like didn't care so much. So it's like maybe
Speaker 2: if you buy the ears or like I remember, I
Speaker 2: used to be really jealous of the like the Pluto
Speaker 2: dog leash like it.
Speaker 3: Looked like you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that thing.
Speaker 2: Like somebody that there was something you could put in
Speaker 2: the stroller that's not like that distracting, but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're gonna want to everything. They're gonna want ice cream,
Speaker 2: they're gonna want the snacks like they're going on to
Speaker 2: meet everybody.
Speaker 1: Someone told me like, oh, Rosie's basically tall enough to
Speaker 1: go on a lot of the rides, because I was like,
Speaker 1: what can she even go on? But apparently there's a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff for her to go on at her height,
Speaker 1: and our friend's kid is a little bit shorter, so
Speaker 1: I was like, I hope she and her mom was
Speaker 1: joking going, oh.
Speaker 3: I'll just put lifts in her shoes, and she said that.
Speaker 1: Her parents put lifts in her shoes, which she was
Speaker 1: a kid, which is so perfect. If you know her dad,
Speaker 1: I feel that they would try to pass her off
Speaker 1: as taller.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you a story, and I think I
Speaker 2: might have told you before, but David Drake was a
Speaker 2: child and he was too small. You know that ride
Speaker 2: that like it's a boat that goes yeah, like this
Speaker 2: what is it? Is there a name for it? It's
Speaker 2: not like a full ride.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know the boat that swings up and
Speaker 2: down and you're kind of just like swinging.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it swings side to side. It looks like a
Speaker 1: half moon or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's between a carnival like, it's like one of
Speaker 2: the smaller rides. So his dad brought him up there,
Speaker 2: and he slid from under the gate and the dad
Speaker 2: grabbed him by the straps of the back of his
Speaker 2: own overalls and he dangled while being held by his
Speaker 2: overall straps.
Speaker 3: And he has never been on a ride ever since.
Speaker 1: My god, Park, there's a reason for those height levels. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Hershey Park I went to as a kid, and I
Speaker 1: fucking love I've.
Speaker 2: Never been I would have loved it. I love Hershey's.
Speaker 2: I don't care what anyone says. And oh the sugars too,
Speaker 2: the taste is whatever. Go back to England then, bitch,
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: I love Hershey But we went to Hershey Park ancestme
Speaker 1: place in one family trip and it was like the
Speaker 1: best and my siblings were all too scared to go
Speaker 1: on anything, and I just went on everything by myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, damn, I loved it. I just really want to
Speaker 2: go as a special person. I mean, obviously if you
Speaker 2: listen to the podcast, you know that I want that.
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to wait. I don't want to
Speaker 2: do ipe treatment. Yeah, because I pissed myself on Space
Speaker 2: Mountain when I was a teen. And it's like, I
Speaker 2: just don't want to wait in a line. I have
Speaker 2: to be too much. It's like, honestly, all of my
Speaker 2: triggers are there, like the waiting, the being trapped. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like it's truly like I would love to meet all
Speaker 2: the characters and walk and like, you know, see the
Speaker 2: kids have fun. I mean, should I fly back for it?
Speaker 3: It's a Saturday. I'm excited because I think she'll have.
Speaker 1: A blast, but she also wants to stay for the fireworks,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what time are we getting home?
Speaker 2: You know, let's just stay there. Suddenly I've invited myself
Speaker 2: to her birthday. Yeah, you're like, wait overnight. You mean
Speaker 2: we're gonna get a hotel? No, I meant to. Actually,
Speaker 2: I'm in Tacoma. Please come see me live. I'm happy
Speaker 2: to be in Tacoma. Wait what weekend April fourth to
Speaker 2: the sixth? Oh wow, yeah, Spokane in Baltimore. I'm doing
Speaker 2: Moon Tower baby, New Orleans, Kansas City. I think you
Speaker 2: know you know who I want to come.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lisa's all over the place doing stand up. Will
Speaker 1: announce pod dates down the road, but in the meantime,
Speaker 1: go get your Lisa fixed. I really really really love
Speaker 1: watching Lisa do stand up. It's it's so good. So
Speaker 1: go and go to Thats Messed Up Live And there's
Speaker 1: a Lisa's website link that tells you where to go.
Speaker 1: And as always, I'm gonna hear I'm here to beg
Speaker 1: you for reviews and five stars and whatever.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not even It's like we really rarely
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 2: For the mount of YouTube and shit I listened to
Speaker 2: and the mount people ask me to subscribe.
Speaker 3: I think we are very chill in our asks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and tell a friend, Tell a friend about the pod.
Speaker 1: We'd love some new listeners and people to people just
Speaker 1: constantly going how did I not find out about this?
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, it's been around for three years.
Speaker 1: So tell a friend, and what do you think. Let's
Speaker 1: get started. We've got a hot episode for you today.
Speaker 1: We're really excited. Let's get going.
Speaker 3: We're starting down low in Hell's Kitchen, which kind of
Speaker 3: sounds like a lyric that would be in Hadestown.
Speaker 2: It really would. I've lived in Hell's Kitchen, you know,
Speaker 2: do you have any memories?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: I worked in Hell's Kitchen for years and years. If
Speaker 1: you don't know New York. Hell's Kitchen is like the
Speaker 1: western part of like the forties in Manhattan, I would
Speaker 1: say Times Square, but to the west, so like ninth Avenue,
Speaker 1: tenth Avenue, eleventh Avenue outdide the water. And I worked
Speaker 1: out there for years, and I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: great nights in Hell's Kitchen. There used to be a
Speaker 1: great restaurant called Hell's Kitchen HK that had bottomless mimosas,
Speaker 1: and I have been so bombed there so many times,
Speaker 1: like it was just I would go with all my
Speaker 1: friends and just literally drink mimosas for five hours. One
Speaker 1: time I slept through an improv show. You know, I
Speaker 1: did too, but on stage, but I was hey. I
Speaker 1: slept through the improv show. I woke up and there
Speaker 1: were a million text messages like I had friends coming
Speaker 1: to see it. I get up, I sprint down to
Speaker 1: the show. I come out on stage and the whole
Speaker 1: that all my whole group starts a scene where they
Speaker 1: start going, we thought you were fucking dead, and like,
Speaker 1: are like trying to kill me? Like are just like
Speaker 1: hitting me and screaming at me, and we just like
Speaker 1: turned it into a scene which is like the dorkiest
Speaker 1: improvy thing ever.
Speaker 3: But it was so funny. No, it's so cool. You
Speaker 3: made it work. Yeah, to stay home.
Speaker 2: You ran, Yeah, you ran to the show and you
Speaker 2: made an entrance and they didn't know you were going
Speaker 2: to show up. No, they'd been texting me, They're like,
Speaker 2: what's up. We're so that's the opposite of dorky. That's
Speaker 2: opposite of dorky. That's cool.
Speaker 3: So I guess I didn't fully sleep through.
Speaker 1: I slept through the opening and the first probably half
Speaker 1: of the improv show.
Speaker 3: But anyway, Hell's Kitchen's great.
Speaker 1: There's another episode of SVU called just Hell's Kitchen that
Speaker 1: we've done right.
Speaker 3: I feel like I there's also a Down Low, the Lowdowns.
Speaker 3: That's so funny.
Speaker 1: This episode is like two SVU episodes merged together.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was gonna say this is more midtown. But
Speaker 2: did you go to Blockheads? I feel like you were
Speaker 2: a Blockheads?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, baby, when I was a page my page.
Speaker 1: Friends from the Midwest loved Blockheads, so we would always
Speaker 1: go there and they had like good margarita deals or
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they were deals, but they were
Speaker 2: just like delicious giant with Corona bottles poured in. So
Speaker 2: let me set the scene. I I'm living in Hell's Kitchen.
Speaker 2: I just got to New York and this is I feel.
Speaker 2: It's an after five PM spot, Like it's surrounded by
Speaker 2: New York New York, like all the tall buildings. Everyone's
Speaker 2: at work, and then there's this courtyard and in it
Speaker 2: is Blockheads, and I just feel like I felt like
Speaker 2: the coolest girl in the world.
Speaker 1: And is there that Blockheads is also really close to
Speaker 1: an off Broadway theater where I saw Avenue Q.
Speaker 2: Wow, it just felt like I loved sitting outside there
Speaker 2: and I just it blew my mind of a Corona
Speaker 2: bottle in.
Speaker 3: Yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Wait, maybe where I saw Rock of Ages, not Avenue
Speaker 1: Q with Constantine Marulis, who famously has fucked many housewives anyways,
Speaker 1: Wait wait, no, Constantine Marulis from American Idol.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, but who's he fucked in the housewife universe?
Speaker 1: I believe lu Anne, and I believe maybe Ramona, Like
Speaker 1: there's like a couple of them he's.
Speaker 3: Had sex with. I'll google it while you start. Okay,
Speaker 3: all right, I do love that.
Speaker 2: What do we call a chuckle fucker for house swap cylinder? Okay,
Speaker 2: So anyways, this episode We're Here, We're Here, Season twenty one,
Speaker 2: Episode three, twenty nineteen, we get a Benson Noah walk
Speaker 2: and talk. She's on the phone. He's in a baseball
Speaker 2: tea and a giant backpack. And all backpacks are too
Speaker 2: big for kids. Why can't they just make smaller backpacks
Speaker 2: for kids. I don't understand. You just got to buy them,
Speaker 2: but why are people not buying it? Like why are
Speaker 2: the backpacks so giant? There's nothing in there but a worksheet.
Speaker 2: They're they're a whole body, they're flopping. I just don't understand.
Speaker 2: It's something that bothered get the What is that like Swedish.
Speaker 3: Brands or whatever? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like get one of those for your fucking kid.
Speaker 2: So she's on the phone, she's discussing, she's discussing a
Speaker 2: case another one. So he waited three days to go
Speaker 2: to the er and he didn't report it. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: so she gets it. She hangs up. Noah runs away,
Speaker 2: of course, causing trouble. Benson calls Finn to fill him
Speaker 2: in that there's another attack in Hell's kitchen.
Speaker 3: Dun, dun. A black mail is tased very sad.
Speaker 2: Finn is suited up with a giant collar on his shirt,
Speaker 2: and Finn already knows what the case is going to be.
Speaker 3: Is he filing a complaint? And that's a no.
Speaker 2: And Finn's like okay, So, like, what do you want
Speaker 2: us to do? Benson goes, well, you have a gay son,
Speaker 2: maybe he can help. So I kind of love that.
Speaker 2: But Ken does work at a gay crisis center, and
Speaker 2: Finn corrects her and goes LGBTQ, as Ken says, so
Speaker 2: Benson goes, yeah, yeah, just go talk to your gay son.
Speaker 2: So then she gets back to her own son, Noah,
Speaker 2: who famously bisexual, and drops the bomb. He goes, I
Speaker 2: don't like baseball. I think it's boring. I'm over it.
Speaker 2: He points to a jim. He goes, I want to
Speaker 2: dance like these people. So he smiles. She's happy, you know,
Speaker 2: because I bet her brain goes, oh, someone's molesting you
Speaker 2: at baseball. But he just wants to dance, so now
Speaker 2: he'll have dance. Finn visits Ken. They're awkward as always,
Speaker 2: but Jaden the grandson, was just talking about his grandpa qute.
Speaker 2: They giggle. So now they get down to business. There's
Speaker 2: a serial attacker hitting up black professional men in a
Speaker 2: gay area and all these men don't report, and Kenna go, well,
Speaker 2: these men have wives and kids, and Finn goes, oh,
Speaker 2: they're on the low, and it's like this is what
Speaker 2: a fifty year old black man that grew up in
Speaker 2: New York like he knows, he knows what's going on, like.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like him being like, oh,
Speaker 3: they're on the low. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Am I being too Am I being too nitpicky on
Speaker 2: Finn right now?
Speaker 1: But like, bro, no, it's also we've done You've already
Speaker 1: done episodes about this. We've literally already done episodes about this,
Speaker 1: Like you know.
Speaker 3: What this is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's just I just caught that and now
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm being too hard on Finn and
Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed. So he's like, well, hit me up when
Speaker 2: the men are here, and Ken's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm their advocate, not yours. I'm not pushing them to
Speaker 2: talk to you, and Finn goes, okay, but if no
Speaker 2: one says anything, then this dude has no reason to stop.
Speaker 2: So now we cut to a famous singer. He's in
Speaker 2: a fashion hat. He's smiling with fans, he's taking pictures,
Speaker 2: signing stuff, smiling. I said smiling twice. He is very smiling.
Speaker 2: Beautiful smile. I'm not under selling the smile. And he's
Speaker 2: enjoying the attention. There's an old white man with him.
Speaker 2: We're going to assume an assistant or a manager works
Speaker 2: for or with. Will find out it's a manager. I'll
Speaker 2: just tell you it's not that big of a secret.
Speaker 2: I don't know why you're like this big reveal. Will
Speaker 2: later it's a manager. It's chocolate.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So he's rushing him along though, and they get into
Speaker 2: a black suv, which is my favorite thing to do.
Speaker 2: So the manager is pissed about something on his phone
Speaker 2: and the singer's like, I actually don't want to deal
Speaker 2: with this, and the you know, the dude his name
Speaker 2: is Fish. He goes, this isn't going away, and the
Speaker 2: brother is sitting in the front seat and it's like,
Speaker 2: shut up, leave my brother alone. You're always bringing him
Speaker 2: down and worrying. And he's like, dude, that's my job.
Speaker 2: And they tell him go home, drink some wine, hug
Speaker 2: your wife. I'm done. So the popstar says, I want
Speaker 2: some air. He decides to get dropped off and walk
Speaker 2: the rest of the way home and he says bye,
Speaker 2: and he's like, listen, everyone needs to trust me. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be careful. They say bye, and then you could
Speaker 2: tell their relationship is sweet because.
Speaker 3: He's like, tell your wife.
Speaker 2: They say hi, And I felt I felt the familiarity
Speaker 2: and familial vibes in that. You know, this isn't a
Speaker 2: y Clef Jon type of manager situation. I feel, you know,
Speaker 2: the s guy cares I've lad. The driver not happy,
Speaker 2: but the star reassures them and he goes, come on,
Speaker 2: I want to go have some fun. So we're at
Speaker 2: an upbeat pop music bar, you know, music's playing, and
Speaker 2: a guy recognizes him and goes, you're Mathis. He's annoying,
Speaker 2: he's drunk. I don't like him. He wants a picture
Speaker 2: Matthis Brooks is like, nah, I don't want that. The
Speaker 2: song his song, though, is playing at the bar. What
Speaker 2: are the fucking chances and this dude gets pissed and
Speaker 2: starts yelling, and he's like.
Speaker 3: How dare you not take a photo with me? You
Speaker 3: piece of shit?
Speaker 2: Your song actually sucks, and then starts screaming that's Mathis,
Speaker 2: that's Mathis. Mathis is getting stressed. He runs out. He's
Speaker 2: walking through SVU coded streets. I would say, this is,
Speaker 2: you know, this is what we think of what we
Speaker 2: think of SVU. They're scaffolding and there's uniform cops with
Speaker 2: flashlights looking for someone, and the cop jokes like, hell,
Speaker 2: let's bet homeless or drunk lol, So then it's Mathis.
Speaker 3: That's who they find. They find Mathis.
Speaker 2: He's hurt, he's shaking, he's begging for help, and it
Speaker 2: cuts to the credits. So we open up on Barnes
Speaker 2: aka Garland AKA I don't know their Adam dem.
Speaker 3: Barn He only got a season. He only got a season.
Speaker 2: Honestly, who's the newest guy he's been on for a
Speaker 2: few I can't tell you his name right now, Oh, Vincenzo.
Speaker 3: What's his name?
Speaker 1: Danny? Want to say is Danny Zuko because that's what
Speaker 1: he looks. I mean, Tavia Taviano Pazzano is his real name,
Speaker 1: but like, I'm trying to think of what his fucking
Speaker 1: oh Velasco, fucking Velasco.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, So it's Barnes and basically he's the
Speaker 2: only good boss that's ever respected Olivia and they kicked
Speaker 2: him out after one season.
Speaker 3: It's just like, is it because.
Speaker 2: He was good at his job and competent and empathetic
Speaker 2: and happy, like it's sick. So him and Benson and
Speaker 2: are discussing the case. Zero reports filed, so this is
Speaker 2: very hard. Benson goes, I know about the stats, but
Speaker 2: and he cuts her off and goes, oh, I will
Speaker 2: never care about stats.
Speaker 3: That's not an issue for me. If stats go up,
Speaker 3: that's good.
Speaker 2: It means people trust us enough to disclose, so that's
Speaker 2: really cool.
Speaker 3: And he goes, but what do you need?
Speaker 2: And she asks for manpower, a wider canvas, and security
Speaker 2: camp checks and a chat with hate crimes. He goes,
Speaker 2: uh uh, I'm beloved. If hate crimes had any information,
Speaker 2: they would tell me. Also, they're very spread then, so
Speaker 2: now he goes, but we can be proactive. Nothing will
Speaker 2: stop us, and she gets a ping at this moment
Speaker 2: on her phone. It's Rollin's there's another vic uh oh
Speaker 2: so we got to go get to Mercy Hospital. Benson
Speaker 2: and Fann are walking and the sun is hitting them,
Speaker 2: it's glistening off of her hair. Finn wants to gossip
Speaker 2: about the new guy and Benson goes listen. He's methodical, thoughtful,
Speaker 2: ivy league and Finn's like, well, then, why the fuck
Speaker 2: is he a cop? And there's so much paparazzi at
Speaker 2: the hospital, so they're very confused what's going on. Rollins
Speaker 2: is looking hot in a plain white tea and black blazer.
Speaker 2: But it's a relaxed blazer, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like it's it's not as professional.
Speaker 3: It's cool. It's cool.
Speaker 2: It looks like a four hundred dollars blazer minimum. And
Speaker 2: she's like some pop star math is something and Benson's
Speaker 2: shocks she knows exactly who that is, and unfortunately he
Speaker 2: was tased and a beer bottle was used on him.
Speaker 2: Benson is like, I thought he was straight, and Rollins
Speaker 2: is like, sure, but it was Hell's kitchen. You know
Speaker 2: he has a gay following. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: know he'll report it, or the manager or the brother.
Speaker 2: They're being very protective. I don't know what's going to happen,
Speaker 2: so the manager breaks it down. They were at the
Speaker 2: studio till one in the morning and then you know,
Speaker 2: they went home. Rollins asked if he's gay, and the
Speaker 2: manager is like, oh, Mathis is an ally. He loves
Speaker 2: his gay friends and following. But he fucks all the time,
Speaker 2: very hot women. Halsey one week, then Ariana, so he's
Speaker 2: out and about. He's out there and then he goes.
Speaker 2: He gets more ass than a toilet seat. The manager says,
Speaker 2: but little does he know that women's squat, so he's
Speaker 2: a fool. Benson and Finn is with the brother and Vlad,
Speaker 2: and the brother says he likes to go on walks
Speaker 2: after sessions. He gets good ideas. And then we're interrupted
Speaker 2: by a nurse and it's a nurse from Nurse Jackie.
Speaker 2: And I do love him. I saw him on the
Speaker 2: street once. I said you're great. He winked it was amazing.
Speaker 3: I love him. I love him too.
Speaker 2: But he explains that Mathis is not ready for a
Speaker 2: rape kit.
Speaker 3: He is too traumatized.
Speaker 2: But he is ready to talk and they promise to
Speaker 2: respect his privacy. He's laying in the hospital bed. He's
Speaker 2: not in good condition, but you know, he's shaken up.
Speaker 2: There's bandages everywhere, but he really likes his nurse and
Speaker 2: he calls the nurse good people. So I like him
Speaker 2: because usually I don't really love a fashion hat. But
Speaker 2: his spirit shines through. He said that you guys are
Speaker 2: good people as well. So he explains what happened. He
Speaker 2: was walking, he heard someone behind him, he felt a
Speaker 2: jolt that knocked him off his feet. He bent over
Speaker 2: the scaffolding and then pulled his pants down. He starts
Speaker 2: to cry, he you know, got horrible things yelled at
Speaker 2: him the F and N word, and he said he
Speaker 2: got a glimpse. It was a big guy, scary looking white,
Speaker 2: long hair beard, maybe a hoodie.
Speaker 3: But it happens so fast.
Speaker 2: So then Benson brings up the gay angle about gay
Speaker 2: black men, and he's like, no, I'm not gay, but like,
Speaker 2: this is fucked. Someone would attack me because of the
Speaker 2: color of my skin and because like maybe I was gay?
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: And he gets really shy and tired and just the
Speaker 2: fact of the world upsets him, so he doesn't want
Speaker 2: to talk anymore and he just goes, man, I went
Speaker 2: out for air.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: Like this is so fucked Finn gives him his card,
Speaker 2: they walk out, So Rollins caught something. We have a
Speaker 2: bar selfie hashtags summer sweat, so he did not walk
Speaker 2: straight home.
Speaker 3: He went to a bar.
Speaker 2: So they're just learning that information and they're gonna go
Speaker 2: talk to this asshole. And his theory is famous people,
Speaker 2: oh fans their whole lives, so you better be fucking nice.
Speaker 2: And Rollins is like, the bartender said you got aggressive
Speaker 2: and that you suck as a human, and he's like, no,
Speaker 2: I fucking hate a tourist. He's in the he's so
Speaker 2: deep in the closet. He's Narnia. I'm really liking the
Speaker 2: references in this episode. We have fun pop stars and
Speaker 2: we have an I've never actually I don't know anything
Speaker 2: about Narnia.
Speaker 1: Well, you get to Narnia the Lion, the Witch, and
Speaker 1: the wardrobe. So you go through the wardrobe or like
Speaker 1: the closet to get to it.
Speaker 2: So okay, so it's called Lionwitch in the wardrobe and
Speaker 2: you go through to get to Narnia.
Speaker 1: Well, it's the whole thing is called the Chronicles of Narnia,
Speaker 1: and one of them, yeah, I believe the first one
Speaker 1: was the Lion of the.
Speaker 2: Witch in the wardrobe and it's like Christian right, there's
Speaker 2: like undertones.
Speaker 3: I think it's evangelical. Yeah, probably.
Speaker 1: I read it when I was really young, and I
Speaker 1: read one and was like, so I understand what it is,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it didn't link me in. I've
Speaker 1: never watched any of the movies or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but it did really penetrate the culture. Yeah, and this
Speaker 1: guy's saying it.
Speaker 2: So Ronalds is like, okay, and that makes you mad,
Speaker 2: and he denies following him and he's like, listen, I
Speaker 2: went uptown to meet someone and we fucked. So I
Speaker 2: don't know what to tell you. And they're like, do
Speaker 2: you know his name? He goes no, but I can
Speaker 2: show you his grinder profile. I love that he is
Speaker 2: a slut. Okay, So there is a three way chat
Speaker 2: outside and it's a really super downtown. You could tell
Speaker 2: they were like buy all the courthouses and de Moore
Speaker 2: Barnes aka Garland. Again, this is going to confuse me
Speaker 2: the whole time. Hopefully after this episode I'll finally learn
Speaker 2: about him and Benson and besides that, I love him.
Speaker 2: So Benson and Finn they're talking about the case and
Speaker 2: they're like, well, let's just so. Then Barnes finally shows
Speaker 2: his head bitch and charge bad attitude and goes, let's
Speaker 2: just push him out of the closet, and they're like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you talking about. He goes, listen,
Speaker 2: he needs to have some civic obligation and he needs
Speaker 2: to come out, and they're like, okay, I guess we'll
Speaker 2: go bully this victim. And they're like, well, do you
Speaker 2: want to have the cereal or not? And Finn and
Speaker 2: Benson are stunned, but I guess it's an order. So
Speaker 2: now we though. We cut to Mathis and he's on
Speaker 2: Instagram live. He has bandages but a great attitude. There
Speaker 2: are balloons. Benson and Finn walk in and they start
Speaker 2: the guilt trip, like, hey, we know you're really scared
Speaker 2: to do all this, but if you come maybe that'll
Speaker 2: help other people come forward. Your music touches so many people.
Speaker 2: The manager obviously is like no, but matthis is like,
Speaker 2: you know, you really think me coming forward would make
Speaker 2: a statement. I don't care if people think I'm gay.
Speaker 2: This is bigger than mathis now, and when you talk
Speaker 2: in third person, you know there's something breaking in the
Speaker 2: brain so this is a tough moment to watch, but
Speaker 2: he is down to help, so he goes on live.
Speaker 3: He breaks it down.
Speaker 2: He says, you know, like our community is in trouble
Speaker 2: and we need to be there for them. So Benson
Speaker 2: Finan Rollins are watching this unfold on a big screen
Speaker 2: and they're like, hell, yeah, we didn't even know he
Speaker 2: was gonna come out. This is beautiful coming forward, he's
Speaker 2: doing interviews. Ken walks in with a man named Devon
Speaker 2: Thompson and he's there to disclose and they take him
Speaker 2: to the Blinds Wood Room and he was leaving a
Speaker 2: bar called Swank in Hell's Kitchen and he's low key.
Speaker 2: He keeps himself, but if someone starts a convo then
Speaker 2: he's down. But no one talked to him that night,
Speaker 2: so he was just walking to the E train. Then bam,
Speaker 2: taser bottle, ambulance and he didn't get a look, he
Speaker 2: didn't hear anything. It all happened really fast. He goes,
Speaker 2: but I go to the bar every Tuesday. My family
Speaker 2: thinks it's my post choir hang But so Benson asks,
Speaker 2: has anyone ever approached you on another Tuesday?
Speaker 3: That seemed weird? And he goes yeah, there's this one
Speaker 3: white guy.
Speaker 2: One week he asked for a smoke and when he
Speaker 2: saw that it was menthol, he gave you know, he
Speaker 2: gave me a hard time and he goes, your wife, no,
Speaker 2: you smoke those, and Devon says, I got a bad vibe,
Speaker 2: so I went inside. So could it be this guy?
Speaker 2: So now Rollin's knock, knock. Benson hair blows in the
Speaker 2: wind as she walks to answer the door. So Rollin says,
Speaker 2: another guy agrees to talk to her, but she has
Speaker 2: to pretend to be a client. Benson then goes, this
Speaker 2: is great. And when you talk to the guy, ask
Speaker 2: if someone said something to him about his wife, because
Speaker 2: just go do that. Rollin scurries off. We're at a
Speaker 2: brokerage firm. This is I mean, it's a hotti end Suspenders.
Speaker 2: This office is gorgeous.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just.
Speaker 2: Felt like this is the richest looking office I've ever
Speaker 2: seen on the show. It looked expensive marble, nothing like it.
Speaker 2: But they're also chatting right in the middle of this
Speaker 2: busy lobby of the most luxurious office I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: And it's like I thought this was a secret conversation.
Speaker 2: They're truly at the bottom of the stairs of the
Speaker 2: lobby of this giant office, Like you can't you take
Speaker 2: her to your like into your own office.
Speaker 3: Can't you guys meet at a library.
Speaker 1: I don't understand why this is even, this undercover operation
Speaker 1: is even.
Speaker 2: Happening, with just how much he cares about the secrecy.
Speaker 2: I he didn't even have fake papers in his hand.
Speaker 2: But he goes, yes, someone did mention my wife and
Speaker 2: son and I do go every Tuesday. And he goes
Speaker 2: this guy he looked blue collar, dirty, reddish hair and
Speaker 2: he but he's like, I didn't see who tasted me.
Speaker 2: I just know the person who made a comment. And
Speaker 2: so now we're with this other guy and he has
Speaker 2: a whistle soccer coach vibes. He got attacked on a
Speaker 2: Tuesday as well, but he remembers the toe of the
Speaker 2: boots were covered in paint and holy shit, someone asked
Speaker 2: him about his wife and family as well, and what
Speaker 2: he remembers the guy was white, tall and thuggish. So
Speaker 2: and this dude says quickly goes, I shut it down immediately.
Speaker 2: My worlds are separate, so I don't fuck around with
Speaker 2: that shit. Finn Is like, for sure, I'm just trying
Speaker 2: to catch the guy. So now we have a Kreesi
Speaker 2: sighting Barnes rollins Hadid and a whiteboard.
Speaker 3: And I know I gave you a pause. It took
Speaker 3: you a second. I did you think of Gigi Hidid first? Maybe?
Speaker 3: And then like and then it trickled down.
Speaker 1: No, I honestly always think of miss Jadid because it's
Speaker 1: Careesi always calls her like, well, miss Hadid, that's like
Speaker 1: we gotta prosecute, you know, like and uh, I don't
Speaker 1: even know her.
Speaker 3: I don't remember her first name, but I don't like her.
Speaker 2: Well because they brought into more Barnes to be a
Speaker 2: good guy, and so they had to bring someone to
Speaker 2: be bad, and so it happened to be fucking bitch.
Speaker 2: So anyways, there's a timeline, there's a pattern, taser scaffolding, Tuesday,
Speaker 2: bars Hell's kitchen bottle. Okay, So Hadida is confused why
Speaker 2: the grand jury hasn't been heard yet, Like, excuse me,
Speaker 2: why isn't this moving along?
Speaker 3: And they're like, well, the guys won't testify.
Speaker 2: She goes subpoena them and they're like, okay, so these
Speaker 2: are humans and they live double lives and we need
Speaker 2: to protect their double life so Mathis and the other
Speaker 2: guys have different descriptions.
Speaker 3: That's the only issue.
Speaker 2: So these other guys that have come forward have a
Speaker 2: different description than Mathis.
Speaker 1: Also, like what is she talking about? Like why isn't
Speaker 1: the grand jury heard? It's like with who there's no person,
Speaker 1: there's no suspect yet, Like aren't they just supposed to
Speaker 1: like find the suspect?
Speaker 3: What are we talking about? Grand jury?
Speaker 2: Dude, you caught it. Yeah, she is a fool. So
Speaker 2: now they're going to send in the Chief undercover and
Speaker 2: I love this. And he's the type. He's an upper
Speaker 2: crust black dude in a suit, so yeah, and he's
Speaker 2: hot as fuck, like he is about you know, he's
Speaker 2: about to get dicked down if he wants to. At
Speaker 2: this bar, Caares and Finn are drinking in the back
Speaker 2: watching and Caresee's like, holy shit, that's the fifth guy
Speaker 2: to flirt with him, and he's kind of jealous, and
Speaker 2: Finn says, Chief can pull and I like love this.
Speaker 2: And he's being flirted with by young guys and Rollins
Speaker 2: and Bensoner in a van and they're like, right as
Speaker 2: they're about to pack it. In classic television, we see
Speaker 2: a tall, blue collar farmer man and hare we go.
Speaker 2: He goes over to Barnes, and Barnes says, I've seen
Speaker 2: you around here, and he goes, no, you don't come here.
Speaker 3: So he's a pro, and he has red hair.
Speaker 2: He's white, he's tall, and then he says get home
Speaker 2: to the wife. And he's like, I'm that obvious, and
Speaker 2: he goes, well, maybe not to her burn she's why
Speaker 2: do we have to drag her into it? And he
Speaker 2: tries to leave and the guy calls him Cinderella, which
Speaker 2: I like, he does have a sense of humor. Okay,
Speaker 2: so he goes, what happens after midnight? He turned straight,
Speaker 2: Barnes shakes his head and walks out. So then this
Speaker 2: motherfucker takes a bottle from the bar with him and
Speaker 2: walks out with purpose. Cariesy stays back to grab DNA napkins,
Speaker 2: and then Benson and Rollins and everyone in the scaffolding,
Speaker 2: they're in their trenches. Everyone's like trying to get to
Speaker 2: the guy before he acts. And I swear the taser
Speaker 2: got so close. The taser got too close to comfort.
Speaker 2: Rollins like, taser was out almost at the neck. I
Speaker 2: was very very scared. Yeah, Rollins jumps out right at
Speaker 2: the nick of time. They take out the bottle and
Speaker 2: finncuffs him and goes, you know, it goes to black.
Speaker 2: He's with a defense attorney that looks like he voted
Speaker 2: for forty five and farmer boy is saying, those bars
Speaker 2: were laid by bricks by my grandfather.
Speaker 3: So fuck all these gay dudes. What I can't go
Speaker 3: to the bars. Hell's Kitchen's my neighborhood before these people
Speaker 3: came here. And Rollins needs clarification if it's gay or
Speaker 3: black people, and red Ty Lawyer.
Speaker 2: Is like, hey, pack up the tackle box. It's just sorry,
Speaker 2: go I'm not gonna get it straight.
Speaker 3: It's just so.
Speaker 1: Funny to me when these people are like Hell's Kitchen,
Speaker 1: like before these people came here. It's like, so the
Speaker 1: gay neighborhood in New York used to be the West
Speaker 1: Village classically, then it moved up and became Chelsea, but
Speaker 1: it stayed the West Village also like and then.
Speaker 3: Chelsea also moved up and became Hell's Kitchen.
Speaker 1: So now it's this entire chunk of the city that's
Speaker 1: become more expensive, like more people want to live there,
Speaker 1: like when the gay people, when gay people moved to
Speaker 1: your neighborhood. It gets better, is all I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: I don't know what this man is talking about.
Speaker 2: The proof is in the pudding with I can't believe
Speaker 2: I said that, saying, did I just transfer? So like
Speaker 2: in Indiana when they passed one of their anti gay bills,
Speaker 2: like all of the like Mike Pence did it, and
Speaker 2: like Indiana is huge for conventions, and every convention canceled,
Speaker 2: Like Indiana lost billions of dollars from places not people
Speaker 2: not wanting to be there. And it's like your hatred
Speaker 2: is so like you don't even understand, you fucking idiot,
Speaker 2: Like what are you talking about? You're right, that whole
Speaker 2: West Side is getting built up now constantly.
Speaker 1: Like Hell's Kitchen didn't used to be a cool place
Speaker 1: to live.
Speaker 3: Now it's so nice. It's like, I don't know about
Speaker 3: so nice. Let's relax, No, it is, it's getting nicer
Speaker 3: and nicer.
Speaker 1: There's like I don't know, Look, maybe we that's an
Speaker 1: argument about gentrification. But this white man here, I don't
Speaker 1: think is being gentrified. I think he's just mad that
Speaker 1: gay people and people of color are coming into his
Speaker 1: old neighborhood. He's like it was. It used to just
Speaker 1: be a racist Italians around here. You pushed us all out.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Well, it's also like you didn't lay the bricks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you didn't do it. It's class.
Speaker 2: This is a classic, classic, classic, So whatever. After that
Speaker 2: little exchange, Rollin says the bar genders said, you're a
Speaker 2: regular on Tuesdays. He goes, yep, that's after I do
Speaker 2: a urine test for my parle officer. I have some
Speaker 2: beers and Hadid Benson CREESI are all spying. And this
Speaker 2: dude does have a rap sheet that goes back to
Speaker 2: his childhood. He's obviously a hater and he is the
Speaker 2: stun gun bottle guy like we know it.
Speaker 3: Hadid Is like his lawyer is too good.
Speaker 2: We need more airtight evidence because he's gonna poke every
Speaker 2: hole he can. And let's get the lineup going with
Speaker 2: these three dudes. But the three dudes from the bar
Speaker 2: didn't even see him, so we can bring in Mathis.
Speaker 2: But Mathis's description didn't meet the other guys. And also
Speaker 2: the brother doesn't want him going in and feels like
Speaker 2: his brother needs a break. And matthis is on the balcony,
Speaker 2: he's looking out there's fans with signs. He's working on
Speaker 2: a new album. He's feeling good. They tell him that
Speaker 2: there's a suspect. He gets excited, but then less excited
Speaker 2: when it's revealed. He's the only one that saw the
Speaker 2: face because it was you know. And then he's like,
Speaker 2: but it was dark. And then the manager's like, listen,
Speaker 2: I don't know if his psychologists would advocate for this.
Speaker 2: She doesn't want him getting triggered, and they explain there's
Speaker 2: gonna be a two way mirror, no one will see you.
Speaker 2: And honestly, Mathis seems like a good guy. He just
Speaker 2: wants to help, so he goes, yeah, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2: He puts on fashion flair for the You know, the
Speaker 2: lineup's no different.
Speaker 3: Life is the right way.
Speaker 2: There's a fedora, there's a caller, there's a red striped suit,
Speaker 2: and he is fucking up the lineup. He's going from
Speaker 2: number to number. He keeps changing his mind. He's falling apart.
Speaker 2: It's a wrap currsey. You know it's not good, but
Speaker 2: you know tomorrow brings another day. He walks fast with
Speaker 2: an attitude. You know he's stressed, but he has hope.
Speaker 2: He's shaken up and then Rollins has more news. On
Speaker 2: the drive over, he kept asking what number is the
Speaker 2: purp gonna be? And Carisey is explaining, how you know
Speaker 2: to Hadid, how concerning that information is. He goes like,
Speaker 2: that does not happen, and she's just a dumb bitch
Speaker 2: so she has to make everything difficult so she doesn't care.
Speaker 2: And also mathis was not on a Tuesday, he was
Speaker 2: on a Friday, and Moran has an alibi for Friday night.
Speaker 2: He was at a Mets game with his ex girlfriend
Speaker 2: and she goes, shut up ex girlfriend, that's that's not reliable,
Speaker 2: and Cariese's like, you are a piece of shit. You're
Speaker 2: the one who told me this lawyer is gonna poke
Speaker 2: holes through everything, and now I'm cocking up these holes
Speaker 2: and you know you're not liking it, and she goes,
Speaker 2: well fill them up, and it's like he's trying. You're
Speaker 2: rejecting and dismissing him, like I just hate her. And
Speaker 2: so now we're in court. He pleads not guilty. Also
Speaker 2: he is on parole, so what an idiot. He's getting
Speaker 2: remanded to Rikers bye bye. So then the you know,
Speaker 2: the defense attorney comes up to caresy and says, you know,
Speaker 2: here's your tip. Your star witness is lying and I'm
Speaker 2: gonna drop the bomb on CNN or Fox. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure yet. He acts fake chummy with Caristi and runs
Speaker 2: off and you know what's what's it going to be?
Speaker 2: And it's a video of his brother purchasing a star
Speaker 2: But also, how do the defense attorney know about this?
Speaker 3: Is this luck? You know what's going on here?
Speaker 2: And for the client, there's a selfie of him from
Speaker 2: the baseball game. And even though he is good for
Speaker 2: the other assaults, mathis did poison the well now with
Speaker 2: his lies. So they bring him in and he's like,
Speaker 2: because my brother bought a taser, I'm a liar. This
Speaker 2: doesn't even make sense, and Creasy gas lights him, and
Speaker 2: then the lawyer goes, I'm sorry, but tasers are legal
Speaker 2: in New York State, which is great to know, honestly,
Speaker 2: and I'm buying.
Speaker 3: One and it's and beer.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna buy it all and he flips it and goes,
Speaker 2: you guys got the wrong guy, and now you're trying
Speaker 2: to put this on me. And I kind of like
Speaker 2: his perspective, and they're like, no, let's find out what
Speaker 2: we missed. He's like, well, maybe there's a copycat or
Speaker 2: two guys, and his lawyer goes, shut up. We came
Speaker 2: here to cooperate, and now it seems like he's a
Speaker 2: suspect and we'll be out of here. And Finn stops
Speaker 2: her and says, we need to get to the truth.
Speaker 2: He breaks down, his voice shakes. He's so angry and sad.
Speaker 2: He's like, you saw me in the hospital. You saw
Speaker 2: my cuts and bruises, the burns. It happened. What that
Speaker 2: guy took for me? Get back, like, why would I
Speaker 2: make something like this up? His head falls into his hands.
Speaker 2: He's exasperated. They walk out full crew meet up. Finn
Speaker 2: is like he really believes this, and it's like I
Speaker 2: believe it too, but they think it's him and that
Speaker 2: he's lying and he just piggybacked all of these but
Speaker 2: Hdid's like, yeah, but he didn't tase himself. Good point.
Speaker 2: Finally she's doing something right. So then they go to
Speaker 2: talk to the brother and he's doing VR games and
Speaker 2: a lot of windows, a lot of really tall window rooms,
Speaker 2: and so he takes off his virtual reality how much
Speaker 2: he does, especially for such a serious type of episode.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, I've only done VR once and I
Speaker 2: did like it. So the brother is like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm a gadget guy, and they're like, okay, but we
Speaker 2: also found fingerprints on the bottle.
Speaker 3: Do you think they're gonna be yours?
Speaker 2: Huh, Rollins asks, and then she catches him in a
Speaker 2: moment where he spills that Mathis knew about the attack
Speaker 2: sooner and that's why he bought a taser for protection.
Speaker 2: So then Vlad the driver comes over and he's big
Speaker 2: as fuck and he goes, your brother said, don't talk
Speaker 2: to anyone, and he is so tall and looking at
Speaker 2: Rolin standing next to Lad is the funniest thing I've
Speaker 2: ever like. It is like Bruno Mar's and Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2: It is a big height difference. So now we go
Speaker 2: to the manager who says that he knows that kid
Speaker 2: so well and that he is not lying.
Speaker 3: He's like, listen, I.
Speaker 2: Was shocked about the gay element, you know, because he
Speaker 2: comes from a church family, so there is a lot
Speaker 2: of shame and Rollins is like, yeah, but he was
Speaker 2: brave bad enough to like come out and be himself,
Speaker 2: and the manager goes, that's because he has integrity, and
Speaker 2: they're like, well, we don't think this happened. Is your
Speaker 2: client desperate enough to stage an attack? And the manager,
Speaker 2: you know, is like, I thought he was really attacked.
Speaker 2: I don't know about this or have anything to do
Speaker 2: with this, Like, I think this happened. And he didn't
Speaker 2: believe he was gay, but TMZ was threatening to out him,
Speaker 2: so he had to get ahead of it. So the
Speaker 2: manager then fully says, I, you know, heard about the
Speaker 2: assaults and came up with the plan, and then he
Speaker 2: goes and if you didn't find the actual guy, this
Speaker 2: would have worked, so.
Speaker 3: Damn, damn, damn, damn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, they didn't think that NYPD would catch him.
Speaker 2: They just haven't met SVU detectives before. Rollin shakes her
Speaker 2: head in discuss. She's very upset about this. And now
Speaker 2: we go to another set of fans holding signs in
Speaker 2: a circle around him and another hat. Baby this guy,
Speaker 2: I mean, he's spending all of his money on hats.
Speaker 2: The jacket is purple, the hat is brown, and he's
Speaker 2: talking about how he was attacked and the NYPD asked
Speaker 2: him to come forward and it was at a great
Speaker 2: personal loss to him, but he did it. And now
Speaker 2: they're calling him a liar and everyone booze and he's
Speaker 2: heartsick that they only see black men as criminals and
Speaker 2: not victims. Garland is livid and wants him in cuffs,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, listen, that's not a good idea because
Speaker 2: the other victims are afraid. So she explains if we
Speaker 2: go after mathis then nobody comes forward. Hadid says some
Speaker 2: dumb bit shit, and then Benson says, we're different. We're
Speaker 2: different here at SVU and we don't blame victims here,
Speaker 2: and then she goes and we're different than securities frauds. Yeah, bitch,
Speaker 2: you did numbers, you did papers, you did white collar crime,
Speaker 2: and you're here trying to like terrorize rape victims.
Speaker 3: It's truly sickening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she sarcastically says thank you, captain, and they
Speaker 2: fight like this case is taking too long in the press,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, you're the one who pushed Caresy to
Speaker 2: take this on. And then Careese has to stop these
Speaker 2: screeching women, and he sees both of their points of view,
Speaker 2: and then Finn is like, listen, we need to keep
Speaker 2: working the case and we will get there. She's gonna
Speaker 2: push the DA for more time and she leaves. That's
Speaker 2: the thing, Like all of them come around and do
Speaker 2: what they say, So like, why put up this fight?
Speaker 3: Why do this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the door shuts, Benson's ready to talk shit about her.
Speaker 2: Benson walks over to Garland and says, she is not
Speaker 2: my boss. He says, but if she calls her boss
Speaker 2: and he calls my boss, then we're fucked. Benson says,
Speaker 2: I don't care about her exploding clock, and I'm not
Speaker 2: letting this go and we are doing this, and she
Speaker 2: storms out, angry teen style. Back at work, none of
Speaker 2: the men want to come in or run their rape
Speaker 2: kits or anything. And the only bottle CSU found was
Speaker 2: from Mathis, so they rechecked security cameras and it's like
Speaker 2: he grew up there so he knows how to avoid
Speaker 2: the cameras and his uncle put in the cameras. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Benson is like, maybe someone at the bar can give
Speaker 2: us scoop, but damn, they're all mad at us because
Speaker 2: Mathis like, you know, did that press conference saying we suck.
Speaker 2: But then one of the victims is behind him and goes,
Speaker 2: can you blame us? And it's Devon and they all,
Speaker 2: you know, they all look at him, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I came here because of Mathis and now because of him,
Speaker 2: even if I testify, who would believe me?
Speaker 3: And they all stare off.
Speaker 2: So then Devon goes Ken told me I left something
Speaker 2: out that might be helpful. So he says, the first
Speaker 2: time that he met Miran, he was out there smoking
Speaker 2: and you know, he left us out that they followed
Speaker 2: him back into the bar, they got into the bathroom
Speaker 2: that the guy, the bad guy, got on his knees
Speaker 2: and unzipped his pants and it was very consensual, and
Speaker 2: he knows he's repressed and he really can't fully let go.
Speaker 2: But you know, he went to back to the bar
Speaker 2: and they did take a selfie together. So there's a
Speaker 2: bar selfie after a blowjob, bathroom situation, after a smoke
Speaker 2: session outside dune. So I'm glad he finally can you know,
Speaker 2: let them all know all this information, all evidence is important.
Speaker 3: And it was not the same night as the assault.
Speaker 2: He ran into him a month later and he got
Speaker 2: out of there because he's like, I don't I don't
Speaker 2: like it. The photo show, like you know, I wasn't
Speaker 2: happy about this. So now they're at rikers and they're
Speaker 2: going to try to make a deal with the guy,
Speaker 2: and this lawyer laughs at Creasy's face, and Creasy says,
Speaker 2: forget mathis, we don't need him anymore.
Speaker 3: We have new evidence. Duh. Can't you tell? I'm cocky?
Speaker 2: And there's a photo of them together, and Caresey brings
Speaker 2: up the bathroom blowjob and he denies it and calls
Speaker 2: him a son of a bitch, and the lawyer's like, okay,
Speaker 2: you say it's consensual, so who cares? And he goes, oh, no,
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 3: I think. I mean, I don't care. I think a
Speaker 3: jury wouldn't care.
Speaker 2: But you know they are gonna hear it too, And
Speaker 2: your farmer client knows that right, and the farmer is
Speaker 2: getting angry, and Creasy plays games with the public.
Speaker 3: Are you just calling him a farmer? Is there like
Speaker 3: anything about him in here being a farmer? Or you
Speaker 3: just like that he looks like like you just that
Speaker 3: he looks like a farmer.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: They said he was rural, that he had paint on
Speaker 2: his boots, that he had he had the flannel.
Speaker 3: They said rural.
Speaker 4: They said rural. I feel okay, So okay, farmer, they said,
Speaker 4: thug rural, a rural man who lives in who grew
Speaker 4: up in Hell's Kitchen, but Hell's Kitchen was different because
Speaker 4: now he only comes in to go to his parole
Speaker 4: to piss.
Speaker 2: Oh it used to be Irish Mob, I thought because
Speaker 2: the movie that movie that came out that I guess
Speaker 2: was a bomb because it was Elizabeth Moss, Melissa McCarthy
Speaker 2: and Tiffany Hattish and it did not do well. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Carezy plays games with like public trial info and
Speaker 2: then threatens jail rape. You know, we love when our
Speaker 2: SVU detectives do that, and it's just a crazy trope
Speaker 2: for their profession. So basically it's like, plea out now
Speaker 2: and then you go to jail as a straight dude,
Speaker 2: or go to trial and then you go to jail
Speaker 2: being a man who sucks off black dudes at bars.
Speaker 2: So what do you want to do? And he's pissed.
Speaker 2: He you know, he's undercover too, like he's he's racist
Speaker 2: sand homophobic like this this can't yeah, like he won't
Speaker 2: be able to join the gang he wants to either.
Speaker 2: I think Benson and Finn are hanging in the office
Speaker 2: and Garland walks in and he has good news and
Speaker 2: better news.
Speaker 3: That's rare.
Speaker 2: He's getting sview a white shield and that's a worker
Speaker 2: that's not a detective.
Speaker 3: Okay, do you know who this is going to be?
Speaker 3: Is this cat? Is this? Is this before cat comes
Speaker 3: in or something? Oh? I don't know. I didn't look
Speaker 3: it up.
Speaker 2: Sorry guys, But he believes they will be great mentors
Speaker 2: to this white shield. And Moran did plead guilty, and
Speaker 2: miss Sidis also said thank you so and the guy
Speaker 2: is getting seven years for sexual abuse one. He wants
Speaker 2: to know what changed his mind and Finn goes, why
Speaker 2: are you not you know, don't ask, don't tell? How
Speaker 2: about that? But he is down to take the swin.
Speaker 2: He doesn't need to know any information. He's happy about this.
Speaker 2: He does want to go after mathis but Benson says, no,
Speaker 2: what good is that to scare victims? I mean, how
Speaker 2: many more times does she have to say it in
Speaker 2: this episode? False reporting is extreme rare, she says, And
Speaker 2: if we keep this in the news, survivors will be scared,
Speaker 2: they won't be believed. And Garland goes, so he's not
Speaker 2: gonna pay for the damage that he caused, and Finn goes, oh,
Speaker 2: he's gonna pay. He's gonna pay plenty, and then they
Speaker 2: have a stare off, and then Finn goes to talk
Speaker 2: to Mathis and says how he's not gonna go to jail,
Speaker 2: and he has a really nice kitchen, and Finn Is like,
Speaker 2: I don't know why you did what you did, but
Speaker 2: if you didn't come forward, we wouldn't have caught this guy,
Speaker 2: and more people would have been hurt, so honestly respect
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh my god, that is true. Nobody
Speaker 2: remembers that, just the whole world laughing at me. And
Speaker 2: Finn's like, I know something was done to you. It
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if it was like this time, but you
Speaker 2: need to deal with whatever happened to you in your past.
Speaker 2: And that's a nice cool fact. He goes, that's on you.
Speaker 2: Mathis looks pained. He doesn't know how to feel. And
Speaker 2: now Noah's late to dance class. I mean, can he
Speaker 2: this kid do one thing right? Benson walks him in
Speaker 2: for the first day. He's welcomed. It's cute, tons of
Speaker 2: kids are dancing, Benson's into it. Noah smiles, Benson smiles back.
Speaker 1: Dick Wolf, Baby, Yeah, this is like they I think
Speaker 1: they wanted to incorporate the fact that Ryan Buggle is
Speaker 1: a dancer in real life. So that's where this whole
Speaker 1: storyline came from, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: But then they didn't give us enough like has there
Speaker 2: even been a recital, like you tea yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: He does a hip hop dance. He does a hip
Speaker 3: hop dance. We see it, okay, because I don't remember that, because.
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, you tease this, We're excited he's gonna
Speaker 2: bring his Broadway skills, and then this happens.
Speaker 3: I'm so annoyed. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when I lived in Hell's Kitchen, there was I
Speaker 2: wish I remember the name, but there was like a
Speaker 2: super super old Irish pub I would go.
Speaker 3: To sometimes for like takeout. Oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So then I built a whole reality in my head
Speaker 2: about it being an Irish fishing village back in the day.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if I made it up where
Speaker 2: I learned that, unfortunately, So I'm sorry about that, all right,
Speaker 2: and no worries.
Speaker 1: Thank you for the recap. Guys, don't go anywhere when
Speaker 1: we come back. I think you know what this is
Speaker 1: based on. All right, let's get into it, because this
Speaker 1: is a very recent crime obviously, but like I just
Speaker 1: feel like I blocked out some of the details, so
Speaker 1: I was actually kind of interested in going back into this.
Speaker 3: Obviously.
Speaker 1: This episode is based on the fake hoax attack on
Speaker 1: Jesse Smollett, who is an actor and singer, and I'm
Speaker 1: just finding out started out his career in the Mighty Ducks.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was in the Mighty Ducks, and
Speaker 1: that's pretty crazy. He did a lot of stuff as
Speaker 1: a kid like Mighty Ducks, like child modeling, acting stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And then twenty fifteen to twenty nineteen his
Speaker 1: star really started to rise and he started to gain
Speaker 1: attention for his role on the hit show Empire with
Speaker 1: Taraji p Henson and Terrence Howard. He plays their son
Speaker 1: on the show, a game musician named Jamal Lyon. And
Speaker 1: it honestly feels like when you read the synopsis of
Speaker 1: Empire that HBO just like made it white people and
Speaker 1: called it succession, like it's the same thing. It's like
Speaker 1: Empired did it first. So it's really interesting because then
Speaker 1: like the the hotits well, it's the classic. It's the classic.
Speaker 1: It's the it's the classic. Who's going to take over
Speaker 1: my company?
Speaker 3: Struggling for the I mean the classic living single friends
Speaker 3: of it all. Ah, yes, yes that as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean for sure. So Jesse Smallett is gay
Speaker 1: in real life. He came out publicly on Ellen in
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, so life is going pretty good for him.
Speaker 1: He's on this hit show, but I guess things were
Speaker 1: not popping off enough for his liking. On January twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, if we all remember, like a one year
Speaker 1: before the pandemic in Chicago.
Speaker 3: In the city of Chicago.
Speaker 1: So for the first thing that happens is on January
Speaker 1: twenty second, a letter gets sent to Empire Chicago studios
Speaker 1: where they filmed episodes, and it's addressed to Jesse Smallett.
Speaker 3: And it's a stick figure hanging from a tree and there's.
Speaker 1: A gun and it's in like magazine Ransom Note, my
Speaker 1: favorite murder font and it said Smallett, Comma, Jesse, you
Speaker 1: will die and it said maga. So there was also
Speaker 1: white powder in the envelope that was later discovered to
Speaker 1: be tile and all.
Speaker 3: So that's a weird thing that happens.
Speaker 1: They get that, he gets this weird, vaguely threatening letter
Speaker 1: by somebody who's cutting out magazine clippings.
Speaker 3: A week later, it's January twenty ninth.
Speaker 1: Jesse Smollett tells people that at around two am, he
Speaker 1: was coming out of a Subway sandwich at two in
Speaker 1: the morning. I didn't realize subway was open like that.
Speaker 1: I didn't know Subway was doing the late night hours.
Speaker 1: And he was attacked in the Chicago neighborhood of Streeterville,
Speaker 1: which I had never heard of. And when I googled it,
Speaker 1: it looks like it's kind of like nice right by
Speaker 1: the water neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Maybe you know more I don't. It sounds like Gold
Speaker 3: Coast Downtown down like Vibe.
Speaker 1: It looks like it's part of not Miracle Mile, but
Speaker 1: Miraculous Mile or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a Viagra Triangle area that's the Gold Coast
Speaker 2: any like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do like that.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I googled it on Google Maps, but it seems
Speaker 1: like it whatever, that's what it's called Streeterville, But it's
Speaker 1: like a central area of Chicago. Probably touristy too, I
Speaker 1: don't even know, but he said he was on the
Speaker 1: phone with his manager, Frank Gatson at the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very touristy.
Speaker 2: It's my Navy Pier downtown beach for sure, gotcha on
Speaker 2: the water. Yeah, but it's January in Chicago, so it's
Speaker 2: fucking freezing.
Speaker 1: You're at a subway at two am. I don't know
Speaker 1: what's going on, and maybe he's been partying, who knows,
Speaker 1: but he is on the phone with his manager, and
Speaker 1: it's like, shout out to your manager for picking up
Speaker 1: the phone at two am.
Speaker 3: That's wild.
Speaker 2: And then when you're on Empire, Yeah, people are going
Speaker 2: to answer when you call it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: So he says two men in masks attacked him and
Speaker 1: used quote unquote racial and homophobic slurs, and one of
Speaker 1: them allegedly yelled, this is Maga country.
Speaker 3: Honey, No it's not. It's Chicago. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, that's so funny because when I first heard this story,
Speaker 1: I go, wait, where was it?
Speaker 3: It was in Chicago?
Speaker 1: Like I just was like not buying it immediately because
Speaker 1: I was just like, maybe if there's a convention going on,
Speaker 1: a Republican convention happening in Chicago at the time, but
Speaker 1: on a regular at two am, there's maga people roaming
Speaker 1: the streets of Chicago.
Speaker 3: That was not jibing.
Speaker 2: No, there's definitely maga people in Chicago. They could also
Speaker 2: be out late at night. My issue is you could
Speaker 2: be maga in Chicago, but it ain't Maga country, Honey,
Speaker 2: you are not, you know what I mean, Like there
Speaker 2: are maga people there, but Chicago is definitely blue as fuck, Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess I mean.
Speaker 1: The difference between a person that votes for Trump and
Speaker 1: a person that says this is Maga country is like
Speaker 1: they're two different kinds of people, Like, you know, like
Speaker 1: someone being like, this is Chicago.
Speaker 6: We don't.
Speaker 1: Like It's like I'm not even doing the right accent.
Speaker 1: Like nobody's like, hey, this is maga country. Get the
Speaker 1: hell out of here, you know. So he also said
Speaker 1: that these attackers quote poured an unknown chemical substance end
Speaker 1: quote on him during the attack, and he said that
Speaker 1: the attackers were white and that they hit, kicked, and
Speaker 1: bit him.
Speaker 3: You don't want to lie about a bite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want to be doing that. We are
Speaker 1: going to be getting the dental records.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Chicago pat also reported at one point during the
Speaker 1: attack that the attackers put a rope around his neck.
Speaker 1: So he said he fought off the men and that
Speaker 1: his manager, Gatson, called the cops at two thirty in
Speaker 1: the morning, which was Smalllett was pissed him out because
Speaker 1: he did not want the cops involved. When the cops
Speaker 1: arrived at two forty, he still had the white rope
Speaker 1: around his neck. He later admitted to removing the rope
Speaker 1: and then putting it back on before the cops arrived,
Speaker 1: after his manager told him to do that. So anyway,
Speaker 1: there is video of him going, oh, yeah, I put
Speaker 1: it back on.
Speaker 3: I just wanted you to see it or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I could understand you being like, oh, I didn't
Speaker 1: want to like touch the crime scene.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 1: Smollett said that the attack may have been motivated by
Speaker 1: his criticism of the Trump administration, and he thought it
Speaker 1: also could have been connected to that weird threatening letter
Speaker 1: that he got at work the week before. So he
Speaker 1: was treated at Northwestern Memorial Hospital and was determined to
Speaker 1: be in quote unquote good condition. So now it's January thirtieth,
Speaker 1: it's the next day, and I remember this day. You
Speaker 1: could not scroll social media without seeing this guy's face.
Speaker 1: It was fucking everywhere. Every celebrity was posting We're with you,
Speaker 1: I Stand with Jesse, Like everything was like this is
Speaker 1: fucked up. This is not how this world is supposed
Speaker 1: to be, like, you know, kind of it really tapped
Speaker 1: into like the divide in the country, and everyone is
Speaker 1: talking about how this is like a fucked up hate crime.
Speaker 1: Every celeb Viola Davis, Janelle Money, Ti Grace Byers and
Speaker 1: Iaowmi me Campbell like these are all people that public's
Speaker 1: publicly supported him, many many people. On July thirty first,
Speaker 1: a weird thing happens where he refuses to hand over
Speaker 1: his cell phone to the Chicago ped they want to
Speaker 1: confirm the conversation with his manager, you know, and like
Speaker 1: a day later, the police actually said, quote, he's a victim.
Speaker 3: We don't treat him like a criminal.
Speaker 1: And then they say that they won't keep asking for
Speaker 1: the phone, and Jesse later said I have private pictures
Speaker 1: and videos and numbers, my private emails, my private songs,
Speaker 1: my private voice memos to explain his resistance to handing
Speaker 1: over the phone. So then it's February first, the next day,
Speaker 1: and Jesse Smollett speaks out for the first time and
Speaker 1: he goes, I'm okay, and he says, quote unquote, the
Speaker 1: outpouring of love and support from my village has meant
Speaker 1: more than I will ever be able to truly put
Speaker 1: into words. I'm working with authorities and have been one
Speaker 1: hundred percent factual and consistent on every level.
Speaker 3: End quote.
Speaker 1: Chicago ped releases photos of two people of interests that
Speaker 1: they are looking for. On February second, Jesse Smollett does
Speaker 1: a concert that has been pre planned and he talks
Speaker 1: about it on stage, and he's on stage going just
Speaker 1: because there's been a lot of stuff said about me
Speaker 1: that's absolutely not true above all. I fought back and
Speaker 1: he said something like, my lawyers don't want me talking
Speaker 1: about this, but I'm talking about it, and then he
Speaker 1: ended that little rant with I'm the gay Tupac and
Speaker 1: then said nothing else, and everyone was like, what does
Speaker 1: that mean?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: So about two weeks go by, it's Valentine's Day and
Speaker 1: the two persons of interest are arrested and interviewed and
Speaker 1: they are Nigerian brothers named O Ba Binjo and Abimbola Osundairo.
Speaker 1: And there they go by Ola and Abel and their
Speaker 1: brothers from Nigeria, and they'd been previously background actors on
Speaker 1: Empire and they had gone to the gym with Jesse
Speaker 1: Smollett before, so why do they want to talk to
Speaker 1: these guys?
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 1: They're also black, they're not white the way that Smollett
Speaker 1: reported his attackers were. And this is the same day,
Speaker 1: the day that they get taken in is the same
Speaker 1: day that Jesse Smalllett goes on Good Morning America and
Speaker 1: is saying through tears that like, gay people have to
Speaker 1: learn how to fight when they're attacked and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Like he's like giving a tearful interview on GMA. So
Speaker 1: the episode's definitely stealing from that because you know, Mathis
Speaker 1: goes on his press tour. A couple days later, the
Speaker 1: brothers are released and the cops said that there have
Speaker 1: been quote some developments in the investigation. February twentieth, Jesse
Speaker 1: Smollett gets charged with disorderly conduct and filing a false
Speaker 1: police report. So this is now been three weeks since
Speaker 1: the attack basically, and we're finally getting oh, he's being
Speaker 1: charged with like lying about this, because before that it's
Speaker 1: like it's hearsay. It's oh, maybe he made like what's
Speaker 1: going on? Things aren't adding up. So the felony count
Speaker 1: in Illinois carries a max of three years in prison,
Speaker 1: is what we know, and the same day as he
Speaker 1: gets this, he gets these charges, a reporter discovers footage
Speaker 1: that shows these two brothers buying ski masks, gloves, and
Speaker 1: a red hat that the.
Speaker 3: Police was used in the attack.
Speaker 1: And apparently they had asked for a Maga hat but
Speaker 1: the store didn't sell those. So in the brother's financial records,
Speaker 1: it's also revealed that they've purchased rope, the rope that
Speaker 1: was found around his neck at a hardware store over
Speaker 1: the weekend of January twenty fifth. So I remember hearing
Speaker 1: about this and being like, did these guys attack him?
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 1: Like you're just putting this together, like never imagining what
Speaker 1: the truth of it is. So then the next day,
Speaker 1: Jesse Smollett turns himself in and he gets arrested. And
Speaker 1: guess who he hires? Lisa Mark Garretton.
Speaker 3: How did I know? O? God, how did I know?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mark Garrigos is this famous lawyer.
Speaker 1: He's literally represented celebrities like win Onna, writer, Michael Jackson,
Speaker 1: all kinds of people. But then he also represented Peterson,
Speaker 1: he represented the Whitewater woman, Susan McDougall, Gary kandit the
Speaker 1: guy who.
Speaker 3: Was wanted in the Chandra Levy case.
Speaker 1: So he is like as close to like a Robert Kardashian,
Speaker 1: you know, as we have still alive, or like these
Speaker 1: sort of like Alan Dershowitz.
Speaker 3: I guess too.
Speaker 1: They're like guys that are like famous lawyers that we have.
Speaker 1: So Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson said at a press conference
Speaker 1: that Smollett quote took advantage of the pain and anger
Speaker 1: of racism to promote his career. And it's alleged that
Speaker 1: he paid these two brothers thirty five hundred dollars to
Speaker 1: stage this attack. So the brother's lawyer, Gloria Rodriguez, said
Speaker 1: that Smollett first drove her clients to the attack spot
Speaker 1: for a dress rehearsal and pointed out the cameras to
Speaker 1: them and said, here's a camera, there's a camera, and
Speaker 1: here's where you're going to run away, like staged it
Speaker 1: with him, And they said that his plan was to
Speaker 1: post the footage on social media. He didn't really want
Speaker 1: the cops involved. He just wanted to like get the
Speaker 1: whole thing on grainy security footage so that he could
Speaker 1: put it on social media and be like, look, I
Speaker 1: was attacked, blah blah, blah. I don't know why he
Speaker 1: thought the cops wouldn't get involved at that point either,
Speaker 1: but he was very pissed to find out that the
Speaker 1: cameras were pointed in the wrong direction from where the
Speaker 1: attack took place, so none of it was caught on
Speaker 1: security camera.
Speaker 3: And now the cops are deeply involved.
Speaker 1: So the day after this happens, he is suspended from
Speaker 1: Empire on February twenty second. A few days later, the
Speaker 1: check he used to pay the brothers is found and
Speaker 1: it is dated January twenty third, and it says, quote
Speaker 1: five week nutrition slash workout program and in parentheses don't
Speaker 1: go and don't go is a music video that he
Speaker 1: was planning to shoot, and he wanted these brothers to
Speaker 1: help him, like get ripped for it. So that was
Speaker 1: the ruse, was that he was hiring them for personal training,
Speaker 1: but it was really attack me on the streets and
Speaker 1: make it look maga.
Speaker 2: I mean, the string of evidence is overwhelming.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: In March, he pleads not guilty to sixteen counts of
Speaker 1: disorderly conduct.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize all of this.
Speaker 1: Two weeks later, after an emergency court appearance, all the
Speaker 1: charges against him are dropped his lawyer releases a statement saying, quote,
Speaker 1: he was a victim who was vilified and made to
Speaker 1: appear as a perpetrator end quote. The mayor of Chicago, though,
Speaker 1: Ram Emmanuel is like dragging him and is like, you've
Speaker 1: hurt Chicago's reputation. And then the prosecutor named Joe Maggots,
Speaker 1: who is the one who dropped the charges?
Speaker 2: Ram a manual the balls on that fucker, Yeah, because yeah,
Speaker 2: fuck him.
Speaker 1: Well, the prosecutor who's the one that dropped the charges.
Speaker 1: This guy, Joe Magatz told CBS he thinks Small is guilty,
Speaker 1: but he dropped the charges because Jesse Smallett forfeited his
Speaker 1: ten K bond and did community service. I'm like, what, Like,
Speaker 1: that's what happens. You can just like let your bail money,
Speaker 1: your bond money go away and do some like pick
Speaker 1: up trash in the park, and you can just your
Speaker 1: criminal charge can go away.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 1: Maybe they thought they couldn't prove it, Maybe they thought
Speaker 1: it was too much of a media circus.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 1: They also ordered him to pay one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to cover the cost of police officers looting
Speaker 1: overtime worked on the case. Officers say that they spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time reviewing video and evidence that could
Speaker 1: have been spent on other investigations.
Speaker 3: This is not the only crime happening in Chicago, you know.
Speaker 1: But a year later, in February twenty twenty, Dan Webb
Speaker 1: pops on the scene. He's a special prosecutor for the case,
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh bitch, I'm reopening this shit, and
Speaker 1: he wants to charge Jessie Smallllett with six counts of
Speaker 1: lying to police. So another year and a half goes
Speaker 1: by before this trial even starts. It's November of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one now, and authority, I think COVID stopped slowed
Speaker 1: his case down a lot. A lot of different things
Speaker 1: were happening. Also, I think things are just fucking slow
Speaker 1: in real life. Authorities alleged that he paid the Ausendairo
Speaker 1: brothers to stage the attack to promote his career because
Speaker 1: he was quote dissatisfied with his salary end quote on
Speaker 1: Empire and he wanted to pump up his profile a
Speaker 1: little bit. I'll be honest, I didn't watch Empire, but
Speaker 1: I think a lot more people were talking about him.
Speaker 3: In those days.
Speaker 1: In that day, of January thirty, when his name was
Speaker 1: fucking everywhere. Sure, but why don't you write a pilot?
Speaker 1: You know, like, there's other ways.
Speaker 2: There are ways to make yourself more valuable or get
Speaker 2: more fame or money if you're already on a show
Speaker 2: like Empire, outside of staging an.
Speaker 3: Attack, Yeah, it's like, go date somebody famous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I don't know, Yah, get in there, you're hot,
Speaker 1: Go get with somebody. Have your publicists set up a
Speaker 1: fake relationship for two weeks, Like that'll help you both,
Speaker 1: you know. So on December ninth of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: after one day of deliberation, a jury finds him guilty
Speaker 1: of five of the six counts of disorderly conduct. I
Speaker 1: don't know if lying to the police counts under disorderly
Speaker 1: conduct or whatever, but those are the counts I'm reading about.
Speaker 3: So five out of the six he gets proved.
Speaker 2: Disorderly is like everything where they can't really put something
Speaker 2: on it, like you.
Speaker 3: Cause the mess, you made a scene. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Each count of disorderly conduct is up to three years,
Speaker 1: so if served consecutively, that could be fifteen years in jail.
Speaker 1: But given that he had a clean record, thought he'd
Speaker 1: get way less three months later, March of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: he finally gets sentenced, and his sentence is one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty days in jail. That is five months. That
Speaker 1: is like half a pregnancy. It's not that long. And
Speaker 1: he's got also tacked onto that thirty months of probation
Speaker 1: and a one hundred and forty five thousand dollars fine.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, it just sucky. He really thought
Speaker 2: he got away with it. And then you know Webby
Speaker 2: came to town.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the judge, James Lynn told him during sentencing, quote,
Speaker 1: You've turned your life upside down by your conduct and
Speaker 1: shenanigans end quote. I just I like a judge bringing
Speaker 1: Shenanigans into the mix. And this dude is still sticking
Speaker 1: to his story. He's not even saying I got caught
Speaker 1: up in fame. I made a mistake. I thought this
Speaker 1: would be a social media stunt. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I feel like there were ways he could.
Speaker 3: Have like apologized. He's like, I'm innocent.
Speaker 1: I was really attacked, and it's like, dude, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about. So when they took him out of
Speaker 1: his sentencing, he put his fist in the a and yelled,
Speaker 1: quote unquote, I am not suicidal. So he was trying
Speaker 1: to portray, you know, a strong front. He was released
Speaker 1: after six days from jail because he was appealing the verdict.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you just got to be out
Speaker 1: on appeal, but I think that probably depends on what
Speaker 1: your crime is or whatever. In the appeal, his lawyers
Speaker 1: tried to attack every single thing that happened. They were
Speaker 1: like they were trying to claim double jeopardy, saying that
Speaker 1: he got tried twice for the same crime, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: the first time the charges happened, he was never tried,
Speaker 1: there was no court, there was no official trial proceedings.
Speaker 1: That's not double jeopardy. And lawyers really should fucking know that.
Speaker 1: They were just trying to attack every single aspect of
Speaker 1: the case, and so unfortunately for them, it did not work.
Speaker 3: The vote was two to one.
Speaker 1: They argued this appeal in front of three judges and
Speaker 1: one judge did dissent, but his appeal was rejected. And
Speaker 1: this was in December of twenty twenty three, so just
Speaker 1: last month, and his legal team said, quote, we are
Speaker 1: preparing to escalate this matter to the Illinois Supreme court
Speaker 1: armed with a sub stantial body of evidence end quote.
Speaker 1: And at this point, I'm kind of like just finished
Speaker 1: through the five months. Man, you were sentenced two years ago.
Speaker 1: Like do it and get on with your life. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Like I don't think any judges are going
Speaker 1: to say that this proceed. Also, like he's not working
Speaker 1: on Empire anymore. How is he affording the fines that
Speaker 1: he's been getting and like endless appeals, you know, like
Speaker 1: going up to the Supreme Court. Anyway, that's the whole story.
Speaker 1: The Aesun Diiro brothers are really trying to work with
Speaker 1: their fifteen minutes of fame. In the spring of last year,
Speaker 1: of May of twenty twenty three, they released a five
Speaker 1: part docuseriies called Anatomy of a Hoax. And you know,
Speaker 1: I love to do my research, and I would have
Speaker 1: watched it. It's only available on Fox Nation, and I
Speaker 1: love you guys, but I will not subscribe to Fox
Speaker 1: Nation for anyone.
Speaker 3: So I did not watch it.
Speaker 1: But I did watch some of their promotional interviews they
Speaker 1: were giving on like local Fox affiliates, and they said
Speaker 1: that he wanted to be a poster child for activism.
Speaker 1: So it's like another thing. It's like a little bit
Speaker 1: of this is arrogance. It's like he didn't just want
Speaker 1: to be more famous. He wanted to be like the
Speaker 1: face of a movement or something like you know, I'm
Speaker 1: like the strength of like you know, gay activism, like
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. And I think that that's
Speaker 1: like a little bit where he came up with this
Speaker 1: wacky ass plan that fucking ruined his life.
Speaker 3: Not one friend, not one person said I don't think
Speaker 3: this is a good idea, dude, Or do you think
Speaker 3: he only talked to the brothers.
Speaker 1: I think he maybe only talked to the brothers as
Speaker 1: far as my research goes, Like I did not see
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff about witnesses being called or people
Speaker 1: that said, oh yeah, he told me about this plan
Speaker 1: or anything. I think that's why he's been able to
Speaker 1: keep maintaining his innocence because the Brothers are the only ones.
Speaker 1: So it's like, well, what are you saying that the
Speaker 1: brothers attacked you and you couldn't tell that they were
Speaker 1: black when they did that. There are two black men
Speaker 1: from Nigeria, you thought you said they were white men?
Speaker 3: Like what is going on?
Speaker 1: Like it's just like you're caught, but it feels to
Speaker 1: me like the performance that el Steven Taylor gives in
Speaker 1: this episode where mathis is just like all the evidence
Speaker 1: is in front of him, but he's still.
Speaker 3: Like, no, something happened.
Speaker 1: Something happened, and it's like like you just believe your
Speaker 1: lie and to the death. I guess because like admitting
Speaker 1: fault is too difficult. I don't know, but these guys
Speaker 1: basically telled these Fox DC reporters like or morning show hosts.
Speaker 1: Really is kind of what they were as they're promoting
Speaker 1: their docuseriies that he just approached them in the gym
Speaker 1: and was like, I want you guys to beat me up,
Speaker 1: and they were like what he was like, I want
Speaker 1: you to fake beat me up?
Speaker 3: And they thought it was just going to be for
Speaker 3: social media too, so whatever.
Speaker 1: I think they served some jail time as well, but
Speaker 1: they have a podcast so they just talk about current
Speaker 1: events and sports, so you can enjoy that if you want.
Speaker 1: They're working on a book and a children's book, so
Speaker 1: if you've been dying to read a children's book to
Speaker 1: your children authored by two men that were part of
Speaker 1: a huge hoax, your time is coming soon.
Speaker 3: These men have a children's book coming out just a
Speaker 3: bunch of Bozo's clowns. Yeah, yeah, so far.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like the other thing, too, is like
Speaker 1: you could just like, if you want to be an activist.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sure you're getting hate on your Instagram.
Speaker 1: You're an openly gay black man that's on television, go
Speaker 1: like arrange some press shit where you go on and
Speaker 1: you talk about the hate you get on social media
Speaker 1: or like whatever. You know, like there's other ways that
Speaker 1: you can like where I'm sure you actually have been victimized.
Speaker 3: I think this guy's just filled with bad ideas.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, for this to be the way to
Speaker 2: get a little more attention is wild.
Speaker 3: Get on cameo I don't like.
Speaker 1: And that empire is going to give you more money
Speaker 1: based on like the fact that you've been attacked.
Speaker 3: I don't know. That's weird. It's the worst idea.
Speaker 2: It's like when Elon Musk brought that like sync into Twitter,
Speaker 2: it was like, what's.
Speaker 1: Going it's up there with that. Let's make a list
Speaker 1: of bad ideas. Those two things are on it for sure.
Speaker 1: But we have an amazing interview. I loved this interview
Speaker 1: so much, so please stay right where you are and listen.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is a triple threat, an actor, a singer,
Speaker 1: a dancer. He has been on so many great shows,
Speaker 1: Madam Secretary ncis the Good Five blue Bloods, but he
Speaker 1: currently stars and has for many years in The Lion
Speaker 1: King on Broadway playing the role of Moufasa, and you
Speaker 1: know him as Mathis Brooks, the pop star from this episode.
Speaker 1: Enjoy please our conversation with the very talented el Stephen Taylor. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: let's start.
Speaker 2: Your character a fashionista, and I did look through your
Speaker 2: instagram and then I did stalk your girlfriend's and I
Speaker 2: really went in there. You're a fashion person in real
Speaker 2: life too. Did you bring that into your character? Did
Speaker 2: they have all that picked out? It looks like you
Speaker 2: like a hat? What's yeah? Tell me about all that.
Speaker 6: I do enjoy? And you know what's funny is they
Speaker 6: did the same thing.
Speaker 5: They actually when I got cast, they actually went through
Speaker 5: my Instagram and we're like, we're going to put you
Speaker 5: in stuff that we think that you already liked to
Speaker 5: wear anyway, So they like found me all these hats
Speaker 5: from Goren Brothers, which is like my favorite hatshop that
Speaker 5: uh no, longer exists in many locations now. But they
Speaker 5: went through and UH just kind of gathered my style
Speaker 5: and put that into the character. So I didn't really
Speaker 5: have to have much input. They just I mean, and
Speaker 5: it was some pretty expensive, expensive stuff. I don't do that.
Speaker 5: I'm not really like a label queen. But but they,
Speaker 5: you know, like they went all out.
Speaker 6: They went all out.
Speaker 3: Did you take anything?
Speaker 6: I wanted to so bad?
Speaker 3: I gotta.
Speaker 6: I got a hat out of it.
Speaker 5: I got a hat out of it, okay, nice like
Speaker 5: an SPU had.
Speaker 3: Not like not like a Mathis brooks hot got it.
Speaker 6: No, no, no.
Speaker 5: I took home some of the like the records and
Speaker 5: like the little trophies that they had set up all
Speaker 5: over his apartment and stuff.
Speaker 6: They let me have some of that, so.
Speaker 2: I like memento. So I like that. Well I see
Speaker 2: behind you that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, stupid.
Speaker 2: So many animals, well, I mean the animals obviously do
Speaker 2: we stick toss to you or do we go to
Speaker 2: lion king?
Speaker 1: This is what I was gonna ask you, because when
Speaker 1: our podcast first started, we got a bunch of messages
Speaker 1: from people that were like, you should book l Steven
Speaker 1: Taylor on your podcast. They were people from the burlesque world,
Speaker 1: and they were like, he's huge in burlesque, and it
Speaker 1: was burlesque girlies that were writing us, all kinds of people,
Speaker 1: and they we were like, oh cool, cool, and I
Speaker 1: like always had you on this list, like we got
Speaker 1: to get al Stephen Taylor and then and then I
Speaker 1: actually ended up going to see Lion King with my daughter,
Speaker 1: her first Broadway musical in April.
Speaker 6: Was I there you were?
Speaker 3: You were moved on?
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, I didn't know if I was took some
Speaker 5: time off in April, but I wish I would have
Speaker 5: known that I.
Speaker 1: Checked the program and everything, because we were like in
Speaker 1: the process of trying to like get you at that point.
Speaker 3: So I was like, that is totally there, he is.
Speaker 6: That is so funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I was just wondering, like, because you
Speaker 1: seem to have this like very eclectic career, like you're
Speaker 1: burlesque guy. You you're a Mufasa and the Lion King
Speaker 1: on and off, I guess, and then you but for
Speaker 1: a long time, and then now you're playing this like
Speaker 1: pop star who's dated Halsey and Arianna Gonde and is
Speaker 1: like this hog. So like I'm just interested in like
Speaker 1: you know, tell us a little bit more about your
Speaker 1: background and everything.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm sure that all the
Speaker 5: people that you talk to, like performers are kind of
Speaker 5: jack of all trades, and so it's like that's what
Speaker 5: you you know, you kind of make your end up
Speaker 5: making your living doing all sorts of things, but less
Speaker 5: actually like I got into like as a just kind
Speaker 5: of as a passion. My girlfriend and I or now
Speaker 5: my fiance. Yeah, we met doing doing this big fundraiser
Speaker 5: for Broadway Care Sequity Fight says, called Broadway Bears, which
Speaker 5: is like a huge thing in the Broadway community and
Speaker 5: it's basically a big, hyperly overproduced like blessed show.
Speaker 6: And we met doing that.
Speaker 5: We were the top two fundraisers, and she had already
Speaker 5: dabbled in it, and I discovered it through her.
Speaker 6: It just kind of fell in love.
Speaker 5: It's like there's this like old school art form that
Speaker 5: you know, it's like on the mostly performed on the
Speaker 5: Lower East Side, you know, of Manhattan's in New York,
Speaker 5: in New York at least, but it's so different from
Speaker 5: the characters that I get to play on stage and
Speaker 5: on TV. So I found I found that and that
Speaker 5: just kind of just like quickly became like a passion
Speaker 5: for me. But yeah, I've been doing linking for it
Speaker 5: on and off for the last eighteen years.
Speaker 6: So yeah, so it's.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've been moved foster for the last nine
Speaker 5: but yeah, I joined it eighteen years ago.
Speaker 3: You're like a very ageless person. Yeah, poll tell you it's.
Speaker 5: Like this gray, I feel like I have the filters
Speaker 5: on the zoom, you know what I mean, you can't
Speaker 5: see the so you can't see the gray popping.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I am getting my gray covered Friday.
Speaker 1: No, because like they had you play this character too,
Speaker 1: who was probably supposed to be like twenty four.
Speaker 3: I mean, like right, I think he's supposed to be
Speaker 3: really young.
Speaker 5: He was supposed to be young, and it's I mean,
Speaker 5: it's interesting because it's like when I went in for it,
Speaker 5: my son was nineteen, So it's like it's like he
Speaker 5: should have been planted it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking when I was watching it,
Speaker 1: because you had told us my son's graduating high school,
Speaker 1: and when I was watching it, I was like I
Speaker 1: cannot or maybe college?
Speaker 3: Was it college? At your son just graduated?
Speaker 6: He graduated college? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was like, I can't believe this guy
Speaker 1: I'm watching as a college age kid because you just
Speaker 1: like look like a teen heart throb.
Speaker 6: Oh well, thank you. The camera's crazy.
Speaker 1: But well, this is what I wanted to ask you too,
Speaker 1: Like tell us about the process of going in for
Speaker 1: this s few because you'd obviously been on Broadway for
Speaker 1: eighteen years.
Speaker 3: I'm you'd probably auditioned for s for you before, right.
Speaker 6: I had.
Speaker 5: But you know, the first time that I auditioned for
Speaker 5: su I was like in my actual early twenties, and
Speaker 5: it was I mean, it was wrong. It's like as
Speaker 5: soon as I flashed sea, like I was getting called
Speaker 5: in for a lot of like you know, like the
Speaker 5: thugs that you know, the guys who did it and
Speaker 5: you know, those kinds of those kinds of roles. But
Speaker 5: it's like as soon as I smile, it's like, I'm
Speaker 5: completely not that guy, or at least not what they
Speaker 5: want for.
Speaker 6: Those particular shows.
Speaker 5: So this role came up many years later, and I
Speaker 5: didn't do like the first round of auditions, like when
Speaker 5: they called me in, which I didn't know that they
Speaker 5: had already been auditioned in the role. But I went
Speaker 5: in and it was already the network audition, so you know, everybody,
Speaker 5: all the suits were there, you know, everybody was there.
Speaker 5: To the bus Field who died, who directed, it was
Speaker 5: just there. And I mean his directing style is so crazy.
Speaker 5: And we did some of this in the audition. I
Speaker 5: didn't know that was going to carry on to two set.
Speaker 5: But he likes to improv a lot, so it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, spent all this time with the script for this,
Speaker 5: you know, for this audition that's like and it was
Speaker 5: the hospital scene. It was the hospital scene that we
Speaker 5: auditioned with, and we ended up just kind of like
Speaker 5: improving my entire audition. So it was terrifying because I
Speaker 5: hate that so type A. It's like, let me be
Speaker 5: in control with everything. But it ended up being it
Speaker 5: was a really really cool experience, and then I got
Speaker 5: the call like a couple of days later.
Speaker 3: That's so cool.
Speaker 1: Timothy Bussfield is actually an actor that was in an
Speaker 1: SVU episode that we just covered a few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: Russian Brides. He's the guy whose girlfriend gets you know,
Speaker 1: kidnapped or whatever. So yeah, so I bet he likes
Speaker 1: to improve because he's also like an actor and he's
Speaker 1: like let's just see how we feel.
Speaker 2: But it also is that's rare for SVU. You're the
Speaker 2: first person we've heard that from. Everyone says, it's like
Speaker 2: very fast and you got to you gotta get in
Speaker 2: and get out and just be on your mark, and
Speaker 2: so this is pretty this is new.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 5: It was wild, and like I said, I didn't and
Speaker 5: I had heard that as well, so I didn't expect
Speaker 5: that to carry on into the episode.
Speaker 6: But I mean, we improved the interview.
Speaker 5: It was very much like he was being Oprah Winfrey
Speaker 5: and I was sitting there and none of the questions
Speaker 5: were on the page, Like we just chatted for at
Speaker 5: least like a good fifteen minutes and we were just
Speaker 5: going like an actual interview.
Speaker 6: So that was really cool.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of the hospital scene, so someone told us
Speaker 2: that in the makeup and hair trailer there like Iced
Speaker 2: Tea's rules of acting, and one of the rules is
Speaker 2: don't stand if you can sit, don't sit if you
Speaker 2: can lay down. And I did like seeing you lay
Speaker 2: down in the hospital bed talk to Iced Tea, and
Speaker 2: I bet he was proud of you that day.
Speaker 6: You know, I did. I did.
Speaker 5: I was not aware of that I'm glad that I
Speaker 5: did him proud though, But it's interesting. You know, it
Speaker 5: was like you shoot this, you shoot these things like
Speaker 5: completely out of sequence and stuff, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: this character like essentially just got raped, so he can't
Speaker 5: really sit down, you know what I mean. So it
Speaker 5: was like there was that whole thing going into that. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it was intense. It was intense, So I'm glad I
Speaker 5: was laying down too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I spent a lot of time with
Speaker 2: Iced Tea. I feel icya heavy episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was, And he's super cool and you know,
Speaker 5: off camera, like we chatted.
Speaker 6: About his uh uh. I mean, I'm a big fan of.
Speaker 5: His music obviously, so we talked about you know, him
Speaker 5: touring and like you know and all this stuff.
Speaker 6: So everybody on set.
Speaker 5: Was I didn't know what to expect, but everybody was
Speaker 5: so warm and welcoming and just like just completely cool.
Speaker 6: No problems with me, That's awesome.
Speaker 3: Problems. Yeah, I mean Marishka tails.
Speaker 6: Honestly, I was most nervous.
Speaker 5: I mean I'm sure like most people are most nervous
Speaker 5: to work with her, but I mean she came in
Speaker 5: and she was like I heard dream Lion King.
Speaker 6: I just went to Lion King. I know this person.
Speaker 1: I know that person, like she's a Broadway baby, she
Speaker 1: loves Broadway.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she was, you know, naming all these people.
Speaker 5: We had like so many friends in common, and like
Speaker 5: one of my friends was like, you gotta get a
Speaker 5: picture with Mariska And I was like, this is so weird,
Speaker 5: Like I don't know, like I'm in a hospital like
Speaker 5: hospital gown with like you know these things. I don't
Speaker 5: want to ask her for one. And she was like
Speaker 5: do you want to get a picture? Like can we
Speaker 5: get a picture together? And I was like can. We
Speaker 5: literally crawled in the hospital bed with me. So it
Speaker 5: was like it was so help I was like.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 6: Risk is in my bed.
Speaker 3: You're like spooning with Olivia Benson. Not so fun.
Speaker 6: I know, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: Ah yeah, because I was gonna ask about that like
Speaker 1: lineup scene where you're like.
Speaker 3: I guess it's number three.
Speaker 1: No wait, like because that's you got like all the
Speaker 1: heavy hitters in the room with you. They're all like
Speaker 1: right behind you, Like how was shooting that?
Speaker 6: I mean that was wild too, you know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Because it's like all of it.
Speaker 5: I feel like you tread this really thin line of
Speaker 5: trying to over characterize the actual situation itself. And I
Speaker 5: mean I spent a lot of time and I'm sure
Speaker 5: we'll get to that, but spent a lot of time
Speaker 5: like watching all the Jesse Smilette stuff like going you know,
Speaker 5: going into that, and it's like I just didn't want
Speaker 5: it to be a caricature. And that's what it kept,
Speaker 5: you know, Like I was like, I feel like we're
Speaker 5: walking a really thin line here, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 5: all this stuff is happening. And then of course it
Speaker 5: was like super intimidating with like everybody in the room there,
Speaker 5: you know, and doing that particular scene, it was like, no,
Speaker 5: it's this went and no it's out and it's and
Speaker 5: there's the script how that scene was written. It's like
Speaker 5: these particular numbers in this particular order and has to
Speaker 5: be this particular way. So it was just it seemed
Speaker 5: random but very specific at the same time. So I
Speaker 5: was like, there's just a lot going on. So it
Speaker 5: was intimidating filming that. That was probably the most intimidating scene. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I bet, you know, it just kind of felt like
Speaker 5: I was being kind of like a caricature of what
Speaker 5: the situation called for.
Speaker 3: It's like I didn't get that. Well, no, I hear
Speaker 3: what you're saying.
Speaker 1: And I actually didn't get that, but I hear what
Speaker 1: you're saying, because like it could easily be that way,
Speaker 1: but I thought you kept it really ambiguous.
Speaker 3: Like I was like, does this guy know he's lying?
Speaker 1: Like there's like the part where ic Tea comes out
Speaker 1: and goes, he really believes this happened. Like you did
Speaker 1: a really good job I think of not turning it
Speaker 1: into a cartoon at all, because I was like, does
Speaker 1: this guy.
Speaker 3: Know he did anything wrong?
Speaker 1: Like he's pretty positive that he's done the right thing
Speaker 1: here on multiple levels, you know. Like so I thought
Speaker 1: that was a really interesting part of this episode.
Speaker 2: I'm not are really emotional scenes too, I'm with Cara
Speaker 2: where I didn't even though I've seen it a bunch
Speaker 2: of times. I kept going back and forth on how
Speaker 2: I felt, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cause it was like do we hate this guy or
Speaker 1: do we like this guy? Like it sounds like he
Speaker 1: made something up. But also like at the end when
Speaker 1: I think Careesi goes, something did happen to you? Like
Speaker 1: so it's like we do think this guy is a
Speaker 1: victim in some way, and a victim of like stardom
Speaker 1: and trying to come out in a world that might
Speaker 1: not accept that the way he wants. And you know,
Speaker 1: there was like a lot of levels and layers to it.
Speaker 5: I thought, thank you for that, because I feel like
Speaker 5: it is and I mean, that's what I want to
Speaker 5: going into it, like it is layered, because I feel
Speaker 5: like the situation itself, it's just a really real situation,
Speaker 5: especially in the black community. It's like, especially black men
Speaker 5: who grew up in the church, which is most of us, right,
Speaker 5: homosexuality and like gay anything, you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: Like even if it's not gay, if it's just affiliated
Speaker 5: with being anything other than the man's.
Speaker 6: Man is very found upon.
Speaker 5: And so as a result, you do have a lot
Speaker 5: of black men who are living in you know, who
Speaker 5: are living in the closet, and you know, have experienced
Speaker 5: things that they haven't talked about, and that does kind
Speaker 5: of bleed into what the truth of all of these
Speaker 5: situations kind of end up being, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: And so I think that he probably did kind of
Speaker 5: you know, feel like he deserved a time to be
Speaker 5: the victim that maybe he didn't feel like he had
Speaker 5: the opportunity to experience what that was and getting empathy
Speaker 5: from people, and that kind of led into what this
Speaker 5: situation was, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what did your research on Jesse Smollett? How did
Speaker 2: it inform your performance an episode? What you used or not,
Speaker 2: or how you felt about it, you know, kind of
Speaker 2: whatever you want to comment on.
Speaker 6: I tried to take his situation for what it was.
Speaker 5: It would have been really easy to do what I
Speaker 5: feel like he did, which was, like you know, when
Speaker 5: he made his News Round and like all of those cycles,
Speaker 5: I think that he didn't do himself like any kind
Speaker 5: of favors, And there is a little bit of that
Speaker 5: also in Mathis, But I feel like Jesse was already
Speaker 5: like his motives for it, I feel like were completely
Speaker 5: fame based him, kind of like doing something that he
Speaker 5: thought was going to give him more clout in the
Speaker 5: black community, the gay community, the political sphere.
Speaker 6: Like whatever.
Speaker 5: I think math Is kind of got caught up in
Speaker 5: the idea of oh shit, I'm going to be outed.
Speaker 5: You know, he grew up in the church, like all
Speaker 5: of these things. I think it came out of more
Speaker 5: of a fear his thing. So it's like trying to
Speaker 5: straddle the line of like, you know, I know where
Speaker 5: this where this source material is coming from. But it's like,
Speaker 5: I don't think that they are the same. I think that,
Speaker 5: you know, like there are similarities, but I don't think
Speaker 5: that they are the same. So we can't play exactly
Speaker 5: the same because I feel like Jesse did it for
Speaker 5: fame and Mathis did it out of fear.
Speaker 6: That just kind of spiral out of control.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a really great example of how the
Speaker 1: show does just sort of tweak a real story because, yeah,
Speaker 1: Jesse Small it was out years before his thing happened,
Speaker 1: so it's a different story, but there are similarities, and
Speaker 1: you're right, it's like the motivations I think were very
Speaker 1: different of these two people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you watch the episode?
Speaker 5: I did watch it. It's always weird watching yourself back.
Speaker 5: I just had such a good experience and it just
Speaker 5: feels like, I mean, it feels like when I watched
Speaker 5: it back, and I watched it because I hadn't I
Speaker 5: hadn't watched it in a long time, and I watched
Speaker 5: it like a couple of days ago just to kind
Speaker 5: of refresh my memory on this, and it was a
Speaker 5: really good time and like a lot of my friends
Speaker 5: were on there too, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 5: it's like people in the Broadway community were also in
Speaker 5: the show as well, Timothy and Curtis Armstrong actually, who
Speaker 5: played like my manager.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know they did Revenge of the Nerds together.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my gosh, I didn't know Timothy was in that.
Speaker 1: I knew your manager was in it.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he played Poindet sir.
Speaker 5: So it was like I was geeking out over that,
Speaker 5: and it was like, you know, kind of reliving all
Speaker 5: the things I made them do the Revenge of the
Speaker 5: Nerds rack with me, like in the car, like while
Speaker 5: we were going while we were going to location. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I watched the episode. There's some things that I would
Speaker 5: do differently. Yeah, I mean, I was happy with the overall.
Speaker 5: I feel like there was like an ap article that
Speaker 5: came out after the episode aired and it talked about
Speaker 5: how nuanced the show was, and that is I mean,
Speaker 5: I feel like that's a you know, testament to the
Speaker 5: writers as the writers as well.
Speaker 6: But that's the.
Speaker 5: Thing that I'm most proud of is I feel like
Speaker 5: it was kind of nuance and we didn't lean into
Speaker 5: just kind of over dramatizing what this very real situation is.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now I'm gonna change directions here. Yeah, through my
Speaker 3: stocking on the internet, I did see it seems like
Speaker 3: you love Disney.
Speaker 6: Listen. I wouldn't say that I'm a true Disney adult.
Speaker 2: They were coordinated outfits. There is a coordinate outfit for
Speaker 2: every day that you were there.
Speaker 6: And I'm about to go there. It's going to be
Speaker 6: worse this year, so I go there.
Speaker 5: I went there last year for the Festival the Arts,
Speaker 5: which is like this thing that happens over three months
Speaker 5: at Cot. One of the things that they do is
Speaker 5: this Disney on Broadway concert series and last year was
Speaker 5: my first time doing it. But I don't know if
Speaker 5: you guys know what Disney bounding is, but that is
Speaker 5: when like you dress in the suggestion of a Disney character.
Speaker 5: I mean, when you go there, now that you know
Speaker 5: about it, like you'll see like when you go you'll see, oh,
Speaker 5: this color scheme that's given me very Lilo and Stitch.
Speaker 6: Oh oh, that's definitely a Mickey and Minnie. You know.
Speaker 5: So my fiance is a big nerd and like you
Speaker 5: saw that, we love fashion and stuff. So she wanted
Speaker 5: to bound every day and she kind of made me
Speaker 5: do it.
Speaker 3: Last last time.
Speaker 6: But now I'm we're packing for it right now, and
Speaker 6: there's like it's it's stupid. There's there's too much going
Speaker 6: on it, so just wait.
Speaker 2: Do you get to choose the outfits or is it
Speaker 2: mostly or fiance It picks the character or the character,
Speaker 2: like are you like, oh I really want this one
Speaker 2: or not?
Speaker 5: In regular life, like we coordinate, like that's our thing
Speaker 5: is like we coordinate all of our outfits, which is
Speaker 5: a little gross, but for this, yeah, she kind of
Speaker 5: it's these things and so then I go and get
Speaker 5: the outfit for I'm going to.
Speaker 6: Play this character. So you're going to play this character.
Speaker 6: D d dada dada. So we do it that way.
Speaker 5: So yeah, she does most of the coordinating and then
Speaker 5: I just kind of follow along for this because.
Speaker 3: You go deep, I mean, Kara.
Speaker 2: They were the Hummingbird and Raccoon from Pocahontas.
Speaker 1: Whoa deep guys, she's an Instagram detective for sure. Well
Speaker 1: it was also they were all really good and excited.
Speaker 1: I liked looking at it, you know, it was it
Speaker 1: was cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're doing buzz light Year and the Aliens from
Speaker 5: the End of Aliens. This year we're doing, Uh, I
Speaker 5: am Princess Tiana and she's going as I don't I
Speaker 5: can't remember who she's going as for from Princess and
Speaker 5: the Frog.
Speaker 6: But yeah, we're going we're going deeper.
Speaker 1: So like the bounding thing is like your outfit will
Speaker 1: like be giving buzz light year, but it's not like
Speaker 1: a buzz light your costume.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Correct, Well I just learned a fact.
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to as an adult dress as a
Speaker 2: character because you might confuse children.
Speaker 3: Oh got it, yeah, correct, Yeah, it has to be
Speaker 3: a little nod. Yeah, just a nod. Love that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so are you performing every night when you're doing
Speaker 3: that or you're just going for fun?
Speaker 5: I performed two days on and then like two days off.
Speaker 5: We alternate with two other couples. This year, I'm doing
Speaker 5: it with Ashley Brown, who was the original Mary Poppins
Speaker 5: on Broadway. So we're a duet and we have like
Speaker 5: a cycle of forty minutes that we do three times
Speaker 5: a day, two days on and like two days off.
Speaker 5: So and then when we're not performing, then we are
Speaker 5: in the parts.
Speaker 3: Do you have a VIP bracelet or what like, do
Speaker 3: you have to wait in line?
Speaker 5: It's no, it's kind of it's kind of embarrassing, honestly
Speaker 5: because it's like they do give you this VIP guide
Speaker 5: and you know they'll shut down the ride, like if
Speaker 5: I'm sure that there are certain people like if Beyonce goes,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, they got it, like you know,
Speaker 5: scooter her through the pack and then like shut down
Speaker 5: the ride and she goes. But it's we have that
Speaker 5: kind of access. It's a completely different experience if you've
Speaker 5: never done that and I learned.
Speaker 6: I don't know how closer this is or not.
Speaker 5: But there's like Facebook groups of like families who get
Speaker 5: together and they're like we're gonna we're like a family
Speaker 5: of three and we're a family of four. So if
Speaker 5: anybody wants to go, have these on like a VIP guide,
Speaker 5: because it just makes the experience like completely different. Yeah,
Speaker 5: just FYI if you guys ever go there.
Speaker 1: And then sorry to take it away from Disney, but
Speaker 1: you recently performed at Carnegie Hall. I saw on your Instagram.
Speaker 1: That's exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I host this show twice a year.
Speaker 5: So my background is in early childhood education, top pre
Speaker 5: school for three years.
Speaker 6: Back in Indiana.
Speaker 5: So this is like melding all of the worlds because
Speaker 5: there's this wonderful program at Carnegie Hall called Musical Explorers,
Speaker 5: and they bring in three like major artists that play
Speaker 5: completely different styles of music, and I'm the host of
Speaker 5: the concert.
Speaker 6: I mean it's four kids. Like this year we had this.
Speaker 5: Guy Kialani from Hawaii has like three Grammys, this guy
Speaker 5: who's an Iraqi folks singer, and then a guy who
Speaker 5: plays Dominican roots music who's also like a Grammy Award winner.
Speaker 5: So and then just talk about how music, you know,
Speaker 5: music connects all these cultures and stuff like that.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I do that twice a year. So that's
Speaker 6: ready though.
Speaker 3: And you hosted do you also sing a little bit?
Speaker 6: Or yeah I do?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And you did The Electric Company, like forty plus episodes
Speaker 1: of The Electric Company. That makes sense, right then that's
Speaker 1: your childhood education stuff all coming together.
Speaker 5: The dig Indeed, yeah, I didn't really do I didn't
Speaker 5: really do too much of that. It's like, I don't
Speaker 5: know if you guys watched that particular show, but it
Speaker 5: was a reboot of the original, so they kind of
Speaker 5: had like a different little theme where it's like these
Speaker 5: kids were part of the electric company and their hangout
Speaker 5: was the Electric Diner. One of my kids was in
Speaker 5: the electric company and I owned the Electric Diner, which
Speaker 5: was their hangout. But it was really cool they you know,
Speaker 5: that was like on the lin Manuel was like really
Speaker 5: striking a hot So he was one of the writers
Speaker 5: with Chris Jackson.
Speaker 6: Who are you know, he's a friend as well, so.
Speaker 5: They made it cool to learn, you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: like they were doing yeah right, yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 1: Lin Manuel's behind like three of the PBS kids shows
Speaker 1: that my friend that my that my kids watch, that
Speaker 1: my friends watched them. They're my friends that I had them.
Speaker 1: He's like everywhere. You can't escape lin Manuel.
Speaker 5: Nah, you can't turn on the TV without seeing his name.
Speaker 6: Kudos.
Speaker 5: I love how this went from from Law and Order
Speaker 5: SPU to the most like the most Innocent of Innocence
Speaker 5: and PVS kids shows.
Speaker 3: It's like we're a spectrum here on the show.
Speaker 6: I'm on, Arthur, that's a full soircle moment, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean.
Speaker 5: Yeah, innocence taken to innocence draft Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, no, Indie, I mean that's kind of like
Speaker 1: it is so funny to me, Like mursh Cargata is
Speaker 1: such a big Broadway person, and she gets all these
Speaker 1: Broadway people on the show. So all these people like
Speaker 1: by Day or just like in The Music Man or
Speaker 1: Lion King or these.
Speaker 3: Like feel good musicals.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, come on the show and be
Speaker 1: a victim, you know, come on the show, like you know.
Speaker 5: It's like and you you kind of feel like it's
Speaker 5: it's I mean, for the longest time, it's like been
Speaker 5: the right of passages. Like you're not a real New
Speaker 5: York actor until you do yeah, a Law and Order.
Speaker 5: So I was like, maybe I'm not a real New
Speaker 5: York actor for being here for a nineteen years.
Speaker 1: Well you waited for the right moment because you got
Speaker 1: this big episode where you're the star.
Speaker 3: You know, like you're in like almost every scene. It
Speaker 3: feels like, so.
Speaker 5: You know, and it was dope, and we recorded a
Speaker 5: song that was cool. They wrote a song. I really
Speaker 5: love how immersive they made it. And they made mathis
Speaker 5: like this because he's annoying. Really like, I feel like
Speaker 5: even if none of this would happen, like he would
Speaker 5: be like the kind of person that you cringe, like,
Speaker 5: did you cringe at anyway he's doing.
Speaker 1: He's doing a front facing video from his hospital back.
Speaker 6: From his hospital back.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so he's super cringe And they made this Twitter
Speaker 5: account for Mathis and he does these hashtag hashtag math
Speaker 5: facts is what it's called, and it's like these little
Speaker 5: tidbits that he you know, that he drops and it's
Speaker 5: like but they made it super immersive.
Speaker 6: It was a really fun episode to do.
Speaker 5: I mean it's kind of rare that we get to
Speaker 5: do stuff that kind of goes the gambit of like
Speaker 5: like everything that we could do.
Speaker 6: I got to sing, you know, I got those dramatic scenes.
Speaker 5: I got to you know, chop it up with iced tea,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, and then hang out Murska
Speaker 5: Hargate in the hospital bed.
Speaker 6: It's like, doesn't get better than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have anything going on right now that
Speaker 1: you want our listeners to check out or anything?
Speaker 6: Or now that the strike is over, we're just kind
Speaker 6: of back.
Speaker 5: I had a lot of things like in the in
Speaker 5: the works, like right before the pandemic hit and then
Speaker 5: it's just kind of been a series of things. So
Speaker 5: just kind of getting I'm getting married in April, Yeah,
Speaker 5: in New York. Yeah, we're getting married in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3: Did you propose in Disneyland?
Speaker 6: I did not.
Speaker 5: I'm really not like a Disney adult like that. It's like,
Speaker 5: there are worse people. Let's say there are worse people.
Speaker 5: I do enjoy Disney.
Speaker 1: But no, you're supporting your fiance's interests and that's very important.
Speaker 5: Listen, we're there, you know what I mean, we're there.
Speaker 5: We might as well immerse ourselves in the situation. But no,
Speaker 5: we're getting married in Brooklyn. That's what's nets. And then
Speaker 5: there's a couple of new projects coming up in the
Speaker 5: spring musical wise, that can't announce you just yet.
Speaker 6: But yeah, there's there's a couple of things.
Speaker 1: And your mood, you're you're still doing Mufasa currently, Like right.
Speaker 6: Now, I'm still am doing lupostera. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean I'll be gone for the next for like
Speaker 5: three weeks when I go to Disney just for the
Speaker 5: sake of bounding. Yeah. But but yeah, but I'm move Foster.
Speaker 3: Still amazing. This was so amazing. We really I had
Speaker 3: a great time chatting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for taking the time. I know you're you're
Speaker 1: a busy, busy person.
Speaker 5: No, I appreciate you guys, have a good night, thank you,
Speaker 5: bye bye.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, a smile that would blind you, like
Speaker 1: the most beautiful smile.
Speaker 3: Just cool. And I was so glad I got to
Speaker 3: tell him we saw him in Lion King me and Rosie.
Speaker 2: And I just missed guests, Like I like talking to
Speaker 2: cool people that are talented and do fun stuff and
Speaker 2: we get to bond and I enjoy that, so sue me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was great and we'll be.
Speaker 2: We'll be looking for updates from his Disney trip for
Speaker 2: the new Bounding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw them. I saw this picture. We interviewed
Speaker 1: him a little bit ago.
Speaker 3: They're up. They're up on his instagram. Oh the new
Speaker 3: ones are up. Oh my god. Yeah, they're on his instagram.
Speaker 1: You can see his like a little buzz light ear
Speaker 1: kind of or it's like a toy story inspired what.
Speaker 2: Are you gonna dress house? Or what do you think
Speaker 2: your kids will want to d or? Oscar's not even
Speaker 2: going yeah, not even gonna do.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that Rosie's just she's a girl of variety.
Speaker 1: She likes so many different things. It's not like she's
Speaker 1: a stan of one thing. Like right now, it's Aladdin
Speaker 1: by the time we go, it could be something totally different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but Milana has been a staple, you know, But that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Oscar.
Speaker 3: H Rosie comes out and goes, I don't want to
Speaker 3: watch this anymore. She's sick of it. Oscar.
Speaker 1: Just today at the doctor, she goes, what kind of
Speaker 1: sticker do you want? He goes Mohana like he's so
Speaker 1: fucking won track mine for Mowana in Gabby's dollhouse. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't know what we'll be doing any costuming, but
Speaker 1: you know, well, uh, I just hope the weather's nice
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a smooth trip. Maybe I'll I'm
Speaker 1: gonna hit up L Steven Taylor and ask him for
Speaker 1: his tips, but actually he's a he's a.
Speaker 3: Disney old guy, I think, And I'm going to Land. No,
Speaker 3: our listeners will hit you up. I am not concerned.
Speaker 2: You will get all the tips and then now your
Speaker 2: phone knows you're going, so you're oh, your feed will
Speaker 2: be tips.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but let's do a post mortemon down low in
Speaker 1: Hell's kitchen. I mean, truly, such a wild crime hoax,
Speaker 1: like from our time. I was interested in researching it
Speaker 1: because I was like, did it really go down the
Speaker 1: way that way, Like, you know, I was kind of
Speaker 1: paying attention to.
Speaker 3: It, but not really.
Speaker 2: No, the Justice Smollett thing was fucked But then the
Speaker 2: people that were like so mad about it, we're all
Speaker 2: trumpy and racist, so it was like, yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: fucked up thing to do.
Speaker 3: Can you not lie about being attacked?
Speaker 2: But the way people were like off with his head
Speaker 2: was disproportionate to all the rapists that they know. It
Speaker 2: is wrong to take police attention and resources on a
Speaker 2: crime that did not happen. Something is tough when black
Speaker 2: people who do lie about crimes get more time than
Speaker 2: like people who kill black people, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, Jesse did something wrong, he deserves to
Speaker 2: get in trouble whatever, But there is just something unsettling
Speaker 2: about it all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how hard people came for him? Yeah, for sure, or.
Speaker 2: Even the case that you covered Towanna Bradley, Yeah, or
Speaker 2: even last year there was that girl that went missing
Speaker 2: and it wasn't real. It's like and then everyone just
Speaker 2: is so mad and they're so pissed they get more
Speaker 2: Jale time. And I get it because it is harder
Speaker 2: for victory. You know, I get it. I get the sentiment,
Speaker 2: but I don't get the level of anger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because like I always bring up Sherry Peppini, the
Speaker 1: woman who like did a hoax of her own kidnapping, or.
Speaker 2: Ryan Lockey, the swimmer who lied about being robbed.
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone cared.
Speaker 2: He's been on reality shows of versus like Ryan Locktey
Speaker 2: fucking lied about being robbed at the Olympics and it
Speaker 2: was a blip in his life. Yeah, Sherry Peppini got
Speaker 2: eighteen months, but it looks like she's sir less than
Speaker 2: a year, you know, and that.
Speaker 3: But that's a white woman, you know. Yeah, and then
Speaker 3: you see Brock Turner.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, it's just like I know it's wrong, but
Speaker 2: the racial elements of everything is just it's too pervasive
Speaker 2: and it's too much to just look at it and
Speaker 2: be like, yeah he did, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: And the episode definitely like added a different element to
Speaker 1: it in terms of like this was like a media
Speaker 1: plan for coming out because he felt like embarrassed of
Speaker 1: coming out, or like didn't want to come out in
Speaker 1: a certain way, or someone was like holding his coming
Speaker 1: out against him. So I was glad that at least
Speaker 1: in Jesse Smollett's case, he was just like an outman
Speaker 1: and it really didn't have anything to do with his
Speaker 1: sexual orientation at all. But that leads me into what
Speaker 1: would Sister Peg do for this week? That is our
Speaker 1: weekly segment. You guys know what it is. We direct
Speaker 1: you towards an organization, a book, a episode of dateline,
Speaker 1: something to give you more info.
Speaker 3: About what we talked about today.
Speaker 1: And this week, I wanted to highlight the HRC, or
Speaker 1: the Human Rights Campaign, which strives to end discrimination against
Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus people and realize a world that achieves fundamental
Speaker 1: fairness and equality for all. It is the largest political
Speaker 1: lobbying organization in the US and they focus on protecting
Speaker 1: and expanding LGBTQ plus rights for individuals and advocating for
Speaker 1: same sex marriage, anti discrimination and hate crimes legislation, and
Speaker 1: HIV and AIDS advocacy. And to find out ways to
Speaker 1: get involved with that both nationally and locally, go to
Speaker 1: HRC dot org.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that. I always want to
Speaker 2: switch up what I say afterwards, but there's only a
Speaker 2: few options for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that was a good one. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Kara Also, now that I am here, I want to volunteer.
Speaker 2: So if anyone volunteers in New York and has a
Speaker 2: place they love to suggest for me, that would be great.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's intimidating to find something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always wanted to volunteer in New York, and
Speaker 1: I like didn't really know where to start. I feel
Speaker 1: like I googled it a couple times and was like what.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's just intimidating.
Speaker 2: But I'd love to be able to get involved in
Speaker 2: some way anyways. So if you have any you know,
Speaker 2: if you have Disney stuff for Kara, some volunteer stuff
Speaker 2: for me, let me know. But I'm not gardening. Don't
Speaker 2: send me any harvest shit. I'm not fucking doing any gardening.
Speaker 1: You're not doing Bette Midler's organization that like greens up
Speaker 1: the parks.
Speaker 2: Forget that. That's what I keep finding. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: not fucking doing this. Okay.
Speaker 3: But next week, oh god, this is a tough one.
Speaker 2: We're doing Townhouse Incident, Season seventeen, episode eleven.
Speaker 3: We'll see you then.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a chilly one, all right, see you guys.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an Exactly Right Production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod. Follow us personally
Speaker 2: at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Ksey O'Brien and
Speaker 2: our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song,
Speaker 1: and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun Dun