1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,360
Speaker 1: This is how men think with broths Light and Gavin

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,040
Speaker 1: to grab and I heard radio podcast. Okay, so we

3
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,480
Speaker 1: are going to intro our guest for today's discussion. And Amy,

4
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,079
Speaker 1: you are sitting there just gloating at because I feel

5
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,640
Speaker 1: it's perfect timing with Valentine's Day coming, with Valentine's coming

6
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,239
Speaker 1: in the head. No, but I will. I will say this.

7
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,759
Speaker 1: I'm not planning on it any by any means, but

8
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 1: if I ever get divorced, it's gonna be before Valentine's

9
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:33,599
Speaker 1: Day because I hate Valentine's Dmitri just totally like, explain

10
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 1: what we're doing. So we're talking about we're talking about Valentine.

11
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 1: Way to steal the punchline, dude, So I will steal.

12
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,839
Speaker 1: I got So that is? That is Amy wanted to

13
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 1: play some sick joke, could do a divorce conversation prior

14
00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,600
Speaker 1: to Valentine's Day, but it turns out there's an actual

15
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,880
Speaker 1: real connection at this time of year for that. Um. So, Amy,

16
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 1: do you want to introduce our steamed guests. We're very

17
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,880
Speaker 1: lucky to have her here we are today, So and Laura,

18
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 1: Laura Wasser is here. And so when I introduced Laura

19
00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,839
Speaker 1: to you, guys, I said, she is literally and I

20
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 1: stand by this. Probably the most well known and prolific

21
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,399
Speaker 1: is that the right word divorce attorney in the country, dubious.

22
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,759
Speaker 1: So I know when I wrote notes, I said, your

23
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:30,840
Speaker 1: name is synonymous with divorce. How does that feel? Um? Yeah,

24
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 1: it's uh, it feels great. You know when you think

25
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,119
Speaker 1: of a divorce and misery, you think Laura Wasser. People

26
00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,399
Speaker 1: are gonna say, I'm getting a Wasser getting a Walker.

27
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 1: Uh No, I My My whole jam is just trying

28
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 1: to educate people about not only divorce, but about marriage

29
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 1: and relationships and how with better communication and compassion, we

30
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 1: can handle ourselves better in all relationships, but certainly if

31
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,760
Speaker 1: we're getting divorce, and particularly if we're getting divorced from

32
00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: someone with whom we have kids and are going to

33
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 1: have to co parent. Okay, So I'll give you guys

34
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,399
Speaker 1: a little background for our listeners on Laura. So she's

35
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,760
Speaker 1: an attorney, she's an author, entrepreneur, and a family law expert.

36
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 1: She's represented a huge list of celebrities Kim Kardashi and

37
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 1: Bron Reynolds and affairs Jimmy Levine, Maria Shriver down the row. Um,

38
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,800
Speaker 1: But She maintains that divorce is the great equalizer in

39
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,120
Speaker 1: that it terrifies everybody, everybody. So she's made it her

40
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 1: mission to change us by creating It's Over Easy, which

41
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 1: gives divorcing couples an accessible and affordable resource to dissolve

42
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,000
Speaker 1: their marriage in all fifty states. You're an author of

43
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: New York best Time seller like high five to that.

44
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I wish I could write that under my name.

45
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,359
Speaker 1: I just want to write Brooks like New York Best

46
00:02:49,360 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 1: Brooks like mediocre podcast. You're a mediocre podcast manager. Want

47
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,720
Speaker 1: to make a I want to make a quick note.

48
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 1: It's Jimmy Iovine, but I have I have a friend

49
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 1: at school, his buddy of mine, and his kids are

50
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,520
Speaker 1: in his Jimmy Levine, so I don't want him to listen,

51
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 1: and people think he's getting um So anyway, one of

52
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,359
Speaker 1: the most qualified people in this state. And Amy, why

53
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 1: does this, why does this conversation for you have never

54
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 1: been married? Why does this excite you so much? Well,

55
00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't excite me, like Christmas. But here's what. You

56
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,359
Speaker 1: have to take your coat off because you said you're

57
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 1: just getting sweaty. Because I think relationships fascinate me, and

58
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 1: I think that look, fifty of marriages do not work.

59
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,119
Speaker 1: So I think if we start talking about divorce, we

60
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 1: may make it easier for people that are going through it,

61
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,840
Speaker 1: and we also could prevent it. I think Laura has

62
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,600
Speaker 1: a lot of great input. We just had an amazing

63
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 1: conversation for the last half an hour getting ready for

64
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 1: the show about it's not about the divorce, it's about

65
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 1: the relationship. I'll let Laura speak on that, but I

66
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 1: would love to ask you do you think marriage works.

67
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 1: I think marriage works for some people. I think if

68
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: you are a couple that has found your soul mate

69
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: or found even if it's not your soul mate, but

70
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,640
Speaker 1: it's your groove, your best friend, somebody who want to

71
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,560
Speaker 1: be with God bless I mean, I'm not I don't

72
00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,400
Speaker 1: want people to get divorced. But I also think, realistically speaking,

73
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,919
Speaker 1: in there are people who have been married for a

74
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 1: certain period of time and for whatever reason, have grown apart.

75
00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 1: Things have separated them in some way, and I think

76
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 1: it's healthier for individuals and kids to see too happy

77
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: parents that may not be living under the same roof

78
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,840
Speaker 1: than miserable people. But being able to say but we've

79
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 1: been married for fifty years. So I think if it's

80
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,440
Speaker 1: not working and we can't figure out a way to

81
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 1: make it work, I want it to be easier for people,

82
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:52,160
Speaker 1: at least financially and um legally to split up. Then

83
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,719
Speaker 1: I think they can really focus on the heart and

84
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 1: the mind and emotionally doing things in a kind of

85
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,719
Speaker 1: a mindful, cost effective way. I've given that advice to

86
00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,039
Speaker 1: one of my best friends in the world. He has

87
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,920
Speaker 1: four kids, um, eight, seven, six, and five. This is

88
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,680
Speaker 1: when I gave him this advice. But he isn't me

89
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 1: is it given us the phone number? Um, But him

90
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,919
Speaker 1: and his wife were not happy. They were individually and

91
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,360
Speaker 1: as a partnership just not happy and it just didn't

92
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 1: seem And I told him, I was like, buddy, give

93
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,280
Speaker 1: yourself a chance at happiness. Like, and also, these kids

94
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: are smart. Kids will figure out that that they know

95
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 1: that there's an energetic disconnect between mom and dad. Like

96
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 1: they're already eight years old. They're figuring this stuff out already. UM.

97
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,039
Speaker 1: So I've given him that advice, like, I think it's

98
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: best for you as my friend, for you and for

99
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,480
Speaker 1: her to separate and move into a different chapter of happiness.

100
00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,479
Speaker 1: Totally and again helping people figure out a how to

101
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,039
Speaker 1: get to that next chapter and then how to thrive

102
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 1: in that next chapter. I'm sure we've all known somebody

103
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,279
Speaker 1: who's been through a divorce and they're just still so

104
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,279
Speaker 1: angry ten years later. Women particularly, just they have that

105
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,360
Speaker 1: angry face. There's no botox that can fix it. They're

106
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,599
Speaker 1: just still so pissed about their ex. I also want

107
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,159
Speaker 1: people to be able to move into their next chapter.

108
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,680
Speaker 1: You know some of you know some of those who

109
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 1: but you know, to move into that next chapter in

110
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,280
Speaker 1: a healthy way. Because I also know a huge number

111
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 1: of very happily divorced people, like they seem to be

112
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 1: the happiest group of all the people. Yeah, I mean

113
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 1: you asked me if I've been married. I was married

114
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,239
Speaker 1: for like ten seconds in Okay, when I was a baby.

115
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,039
Speaker 1: We didn't have kids, but I have two boys with

116
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 1: two different dads, neither to whom I was married. But

117
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,279
Speaker 1: you know, talk about happy divorced or happy separated. We

118
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: all had Thanksgiving together a couple of months ago. Everybody

119
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,279
Speaker 1: was there, my kids, their dad's, my current boyfriend, his

120
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,600
Speaker 1: ex wife was like, how the hell did I end

121
00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,720
Speaker 1: up here? But it was left a party. This is Thanksgiving,

122
00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 1: this is our thanks It sounds like you just showed

123
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,240
Speaker 1: up to the same restaurant by accident that my mom

124
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: and actually I lost my mom over the summer, which

125
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: and she always had Thanksgiving at her house in Malbou

126
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,080
Speaker 1: and she always had everyone there, even though she's married

127
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 1: to my stepdad for like fifteen years. My dad was

128
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 1: there with his wife. Like we were always very inclusive

129
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 1: in our family. So that's how I learned. And so

130
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 1: when we would have Thanksgiving, it my mom's all of

131
00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 1: the baby daddies and everyone would come. So this year

132
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 1: I had to do it at my house, and so

133
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,120
Speaker 1: we had it at my house and we had all

134
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 1: of the people there, and look, you know, sometimes is

135
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: it trying to have these relationships and smile and maybe

136
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: fake it till you make it? Yes, however one it was.

137
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 1: It was a sad, kind of melancholy Thanksgiving for me

138
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 1: and these family members that the fathers of my kids

139
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 1: were there for me and we're like, we love you.

140
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 1: This is our family. We all miss Bunny. But to

141
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,240
Speaker 1: all of our kids, my boyfriends included, we're so happy

142
00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 1: that their parents were one place. I don't know how

143
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,720
Speaker 1: many of you are children of divorce, but having that

144
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving were like halfway through. You gotta get everything bundled

145
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 1: up and go to other person's house so that you

146
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 1: can have dessert with that family. That's a pain and

147
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 1: that does not make you thankful. So everybody was there.

148
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 1: We did it for the kids. I say to people

149
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 1: all the time, you gotta love your kids more than

150
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: you hate your ex. What a great behind. I have

151
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,440
Speaker 1: that tattoo on my own. That's so weird. I have

152
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: that tattoo from you because I'm forty five almost I

153
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 1: guess I am forty six? Are you actually pretty sick?

154
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,680
Speaker 1: Like the same? We thought we were the same age.

155
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 1: She was like, we're the same age, right, and I

156
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,960
Speaker 1: was like, no, we're not. I'm older. You're just trying

157
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 1: to dial it back. One like it back, go back

158
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:50,440
Speaker 1: to I'm she whispers, It's like you're there. I have

159
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 1: a lot of friends who are quote what I call

160
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:59,320
Speaker 1: sticking it out like it's not great. They are not miserable.

161
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,640
Speaker 1: There's no drama, like, there's not constant fighting. It's just

162
00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 1: sort of dead in the water. What is your advice

163
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: to those people who have been married ten twelve fifteen

164
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 1: years should be two years? Do Should people stick it out?

165
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,160
Speaker 1: How do you know when divorce is probably the better

166
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,200
Speaker 1: option or it's time to like pull the trigger and

167
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,840
Speaker 1: and move on. I don't know. I mean I literally,

168
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 1: unless you are being you know, abused, or you're with

169
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,839
Speaker 1: somebody who has a serious drug and alcohol problem and

170
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,680
Speaker 1: they can't no matter how much rehab, they can't get better.

171
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, one thing is, and I

172
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,080
Speaker 1: don't think we all readily admit this marriage is sticking

173
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,719
Speaker 1: it out. I mean that's part of it. And if

174
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,839
Speaker 1: it's not his ship, it's gonna be somebody else's ship.

175
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 1: So it's not always just like after the butterflies go

176
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,679
Speaker 1: away and you know the balloom is off the roads,

177
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm out that is That is a very

178
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,240
Speaker 1: Hollywood way of thinking. I want the newer, better deal.

179
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,480
Speaker 1: And I've seen that a lot of times men and

180
00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,680
Speaker 1: women who come in and I'm like, wait, that looks

181
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,400
Speaker 1: just like your X, but like fifteen years younger. That's weird. Um.

182
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,559
Speaker 1: So I think that's part of it. Sticking it out

183
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 1: has to do. Maybe you don't stick it out, maybe

184
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 1: you figure out how to grow and evolve with this person.

185
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 1: Rather than just cutting and running. I think that's it

186
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,679
Speaker 1: right there. I think you need to continually evolve. You're

187
00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,560
Speaker 1: going to change. I'm going to change in the course

188
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,319
Speaker 1: of my life. My wife is going to change in

189
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,720
Speaker 1: the course of her life. But also I think people

190
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 1: over time can develop some sort of indifference when there

191
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,239
Speaker 1: once there was an attraction. They can just develop an indifference,

192
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 1: and it's not staying connected enough to continue to learn

193
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 1: and grow and accept your changes except their changes, and

194
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 1: also challenge each other. There's so many resources out there, seminars, um,

195
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: all kinds of things, books, all kinds of things. There's

196
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,120
Speaker 1: areas in your relationship you can undoubtedly grow, and maybe

197
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,200
Speaker 1: there's just an indifference in people where they don't want

198
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:50,840
Speaker 1: to put in the energy to do it, or they

199
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,160
Speaker 1: don't think they can. I don't think a lot of

200
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,679
Speaker 1: people in their marriage really really truthfully communicate all the

201
00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 1: needs and desires and savings and yearnings they have for themselves,

202
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: for their partner, all of it. I think there's they

203
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,280
Speaker 1: lack a little bit of courage there to share those

204
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 1: things that could really actually keep people together and like

205
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 1: light their marriage on floor and it's work. I mean,

206
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:16,839
Speaker 1: it's like we all go to the gym because we

207
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,439
Speaker 1: want to stay healthy, we want to stay tone. You

208
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 1: want to say, you may have to do that, whether

209
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 1: it's therapy, but mentioned you want sneakers over, your sneakers

210
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,040
Speaker 1: haven't arrived. I love what Brooks is talking about because

211
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:35,840
Speaker 1: I think a lot of couples in Laura, you probably

212
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,880
Speaker 1: know this because people have to tell you all their tales,

213
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 1: is that they really let their connection go when they

214
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,400
Speaker 1: let their intimacy go. Because we know tons of couples

215
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,560
Speaker 1: that haven't had sex in a year, and it's like,

216
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,720
Speaker 1: if you have that, one of the things is like

217
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,160
Speaker 1: you got to get that back because that is connection,

218
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,920
Speaker 1: and then the marriage can improve, as opposed to saying

219
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,680
Speaker 1: like it's dead. Let's just that's true. But but there's

220
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 1: also people. There's something also to be said about growing apart,

221
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,800
Speaker 1: and there's also something to be said about I think

222
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,320
Speaker 1: sometimes people when they get into a marriage, um, they

223
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 1: probably you know, sacrifice certain things and maybe change who

224
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 1: they are a little bit. And then as they get

225
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: older they say, you know what, I wasn't that person,

226
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:20,880
Speaker 1: but I was being that person. So I think it's

227
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,600
Speaker 1: not always about reading books and like everything can be

228
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 1: saved well again, but you could go to your partner

229
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 1: and say, listen, these are some of the things I

230
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 1: really was super passionate about when we got married and

231
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 1: I let them go by the wayside for whatever reason,

232
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 1: we had to move to a different state, we had kids.

233
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 1: Whatever is he or she has to be willing to

234
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,960
Speaker 1: go I I hear you. I like that. Let's work

235
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,600
Speaker 1: on those things too. I mean you have to have

236
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 1: somebody on the other end going, yeah, I'm willing to

237
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,839
Speaker 1: explore those things with you. You can't do it alone.

238
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: It takes two to tango. So if you are willing

239
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,960
Speaker 1: to put in it, it's the hardest job you'll do.

240
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 1: They say being a parent, Being a parent and being married.

241
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,679
Speaker 1: That's like you know, and you do. You really have

242
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 1: to focus on it. And if you're doing it, but

243
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 1: the other a person isn't getting married was to improve

244
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 1: your life? What the purpose was? I mean, I'm not married,

245
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,360
Speaker 1: so I thought the whole purpose of getting married was

246
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:19,400
Speaker 1: the partnership of essentially improving each other's lives. So so

247
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,199
Speaker 1: if you're telling me that the two hardest things you're

248
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 1: ever gonna do are having kids and maintaining a marriage,

249
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 1: doesn't that sort of defeat the whole purpose of what

250
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,680
Speaker 1: the marriage is supposed to be, which is to improve

251
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 1: each other's lives. What about what about doesn't come easy?

252
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,520
Speaker 1: What about your career? Your career? Your career is like

253
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,960
Speaker 1: I got to maintain I there's things it's it's not

254
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,800
Speaker 1: just my career is an absolute joy. Yeah, yeah, but

255
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: there's there's grindwork in there, there's things that you probably

256
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,559
Speaker 1: don't like. I'm happy to do all of it. And

257
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,360
Speaker 1: in a marriage it's the same thing. Man have the

258
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 1: same Barely ever do I think to myself, oh, I

259
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 1: have to with my career. It almost never happens. So

260
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 1: it's the same. So people feel that way about in marriage,

261
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 1: I have to, Oh I have to change diaper, But

262
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: then you have a clean baby and you're so psyched.

263
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just really what it is. It's the

264
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 1: parenthood is a better analogy to be like, it's the

265
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 1: hardest thing you'll do, but it's also the most rewarding.

266
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,000
Speaker 1: And we could say the same thing about having a marriage.

267
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 1: To tell me about the joy of the diaper, there's

268
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: no joy of the diaper. There's no joy of the

269
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,600
Speaker 1: diaper till the diaper is gone and the new diaper

270
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 1: is man, I was what a joy kick this diaper

271
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 1: and see what kin out of it? Kevin, I don't

272
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,200
Speaker 1: think it's question that you brought up a while back,

273
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 1: was like, what point do you then decide let's get

274
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 1: divorced after you've gone through the therapy? Maybe it's five

275
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 1: therapists or whatever that maybe you know, like right, and again,

276
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 1: people come to see me all the time, and I

277
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 1: will never be the one to tell them that it's time.

278
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: But when they come to me and say it's time,

279
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 1: then what I try to make sure that they are

280
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 1: doing is educating, getting their education of what this is

281
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,200
Speaker 1: going to look like, what other people have gone through,

282
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 1: getting a support system for yourself. So many people come

283
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,680
Speaker 1: to me and they have no idea even what the

284
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 1: law is in this state. So right, sofa bed to

285
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,680
Speaker 1: put in the apartment they're heading into, Jennifer convertibles. What

286
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 1: Laura thinks of nesting? Do you wait, what is that?

287
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 1: So nesting is? I mean it's people have been doing

288
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 1: it for a long time, but it's really become kind

289
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 1: of a trend in family law. It's when the kids

290
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 1: stay in the family residence and the parents kind of

291
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 1: shift out for customs. Okay, So I think it's great

292
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,800
Speaker 1: if it works for the family, and I think it's

293
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: great for a short time. I don't think it usually

294
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 1: works forever. Although I read a story about a Canadian

295
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,600
Speaker 1: couple actually that has been doing it for like seven

296
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,120
Speaker 1: or eight years. They actually built like two apartments onto

297
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 1: either side of the house and they just rotate out

298
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:09,240
Speaker 1: and go into these apartments. Yeah, Canada people, But but

299
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 1: I think it's really good, particularly during the process and

300
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 1: maybe for like the first you know, six to twelve

301
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 1: months after, because it's good for the kids and they

302
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 1: don't have to keep moving and packing and going. Um.

303
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 1: And I think if the people can get along and

304
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 1: have somewhere else to go either they rent one apartment

305
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 1: that they both go to on their off time. But

306
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: you have to be super super considerate there too, because

307
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 1: like if you show off, show up on your off

308
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,560
Speaker 1: day and there's like used condoms, that's not like you can't.

309
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: There has to be some kind of right, not good

310
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 1: or you yes, because they're still available to you. M

311
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 1: here's a questions. That is what my entire gess, that's

312
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: my point of the podcast is do not use condoms.

313
00:16:53,120 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 1: Laura wasser Um here's a question for serious question. Here's

314
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: a question for you in the praternity route, I really hustle. Um,

315
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 1: So you make your living in the space of of

316
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 1: dealing with divorce. Has that in any way crept into

317
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,400
Speaker 1: your life bled over into your personal life where you

318
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,480
Speaker 1: feel cynical or negative or anything about the connotation of

319
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 1: marriage or are you able to compartmentalize compart mental compartmentalized,

320
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,639
Speaker 1: but departmental compartmentalized. This is what I do for a living,

321
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: and I still have my beliefs and I believe in

322
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 1: marriage here, or this is what I do for a

323
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,040
Speaker 1: living and I really don't believe in the sacrament of marriage.

324
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,040
Speaker 1: I am a great compartmentalizer. I believe in marriage for

325
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,160
Speaker 1: some people. It's not for me, Like, there's no reason

326
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 1: for me to get married. I'm in a very committed,

327
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:55,240
Speaker 1: wonderful relationship right now. I'm not super down with the

328
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 1: State of California being able to say what happens to

329
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,680
Speaker 1: my money or who I would owe money to if

330
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 1: we ever split up. But you could do could I

331
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,960
Speaker 1: could do a prenup. I just you know, I don't

332
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,160
Speaker 1: need it for me and for my significant other. That's

333
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 1: not something that we need, but I love a good wedding.

334
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 1: I believe in marriage. I think it's important for people. Um,

335
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 1: I don't believe you have to get married to have kids, obviously,

336
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 1: like people say, oh, well, I wouldn't ever want to

337
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 1: have kids if I wasn't. That's not for me. But again,

338
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 1: one thing you get good at in my job is

339
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 1: not judging. I don't judge other people because everybody has

340
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,960
Speaker 1: their ship, everybody has stuff. You never quite know what's

341
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,159
Speaker 1: in somebody's past or what's going on behind closed doors.

342
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 1: So you try to listen and you try to problem

343
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,479
Speaker 1: solve question because you've seen so many different versions of

344
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:48,640
Speaker 1: failed relationships. The second year in a relationship with someone,

345
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 1: and you see any similar stories happening in your relationship,

346
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,119
Speaker 1: do you assume it's headed towards the direction of the

347
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: stories you've already seen and pandard No, No, I really don't.

348
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I'm fifty one years old, I've been

349
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 1: in relationships for a long time. As you said, I've

350
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: seen a lot of relationships. I think everything that comes

351
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 1: my way personally and professionally is new. I also think

352
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: there's only a certain amount of things that can go wrong.

353
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean I've now heard I thought pretty much everything.

354
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: And you can see red flags in any relationship or

355
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 1: any marriage. But like I said, if I'm watching somebody

356
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,479
Speaker 1: else's play out, I never know exactly what's going on.

357
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: They don't say, well, like I won't be able to

358
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: pick you up at at yoga because such and such,

359
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 1: and you're thinking Mark versus Tina. No, I'm about three.

360
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 1: It's over now, you know what I haven't. I have

361
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 1: enough of my own relationship history that I could just go, Josh,

362
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 1: good for you, Laura. I like you. We're gonna get,

363
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna have hold on, We'll get. We gotta take

364
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: a quick break and then we're gonna dive more into

365
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: Laura's story after. This is kind of a fun topic here. Okay,

366
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 1: we're back from break and the timeliest podcast we've ever done.

367
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 1: A happy vale Haymy just wants to ruin everybody's Valentize

368
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: Day here with the divorce podcast prior to Valentized Day.

369
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: But Amy, you had a real exciting question. You wanted

370
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: to listen to Laura's podcast. So Laura has a podcast

371
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: right now she'll tell us about and then she's coming

372
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 1: to my heart. Yeah, welcome and it'll be very similar

373
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: to her podcast now, but just broader and better. So

374
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: I learned this on your show that set and I

375
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: might be getting the stat slightly off, but it's all

376
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:51,639
Speaker 1: whatever semantics of divorces are filed by women, and I

377
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,239
Speaker 1: thought that it was a very interesting conversation that you

378
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: can tell us about. But you sort of tied it

379
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: to women are the ones who have this emotional can

380
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: action and when they finally just cannot take it anymore,

381
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: they will file, whereas men are have a little bit

382
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: of an easier time sort of just rolling with it,

383
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: and they maybe they golf or they go out with

384
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 1: their buddies and they aren't so sort of distraught over

385
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: the emotional breakdown of the relationship. Yeah, I mean one

386
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: of the things that I do and we talk about

387
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: on Divorce Sucks, which is the current podcast. It will

388
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: become All's Fair, same feed, um, But on my heart,

389
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 1: All's Fair was just a little broader and had more

390
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,199
Speaker 1: to do with all different kinds of relationships. But we

391
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: talk about a lot the difference between men and women,

392
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 1: and people always assume that I represent more women. I

393
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 1: actually represent more men. You just I guess hear about

394
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: more of the women. But so many men will come

395
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: to me and they'll have their divorce papers that their

396
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 1: wife filed and serve them with and they'll be like,

397
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,959
Speaker 1: I thought everything was fine, I mean what happened? Like

398
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it wasn't great. When was the last

399
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 1: time you had sex with her? Yes? With her? You know,

400
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 1: and or like they just you know. I think men

401
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: and against this also is goes in line with men

402
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 1: that are working men. Okay, so I don't always represent

403
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: men or women, but I almost always represent the breadwinner,

404
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: the working person. The breadwinner is often the one that's like,

405
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not perfect, but it's good and

406
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: I love him or her and it's working. It's sometimes

407
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: the person that may not have as much going on

408
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: during the day that's going I'm not happy, and I

409
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: want to think about why I'm not happy and how

410
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,719
Speaker 1: I could be happy and what would happen. And again,

411
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: no judgment. It happens that a lot of times women

412
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: are the ones to file because they are kind of

413
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,959
Speaker 1: the organizer in the relationship and so there now we're

414
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: going to get divorced. I have had women not only

415
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: file but help their husband find their attorney and then

416
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: help their husband find and furnish their entire new home

417
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: or apartment, because that's that's what they do. Out. I

418
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: want to move on, and once I get you set up,

419
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: I can do that. Yes, Amy, I have a question

420
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: for you, because when you asked this question, it made

421
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: me think of a question. You said that, and maybe

422
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: it's statistically is true women are the ones that file

423
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: for divorces are filed by women. I thought about how

424
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: so I'm thinking about how you exit a relationship. Is

425
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: it also the same as how you enter a relationship?

426
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: So that maybe maybe and I'm not trying to generalize

427
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: or paint women with a broad stroke here, but do

428
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: women enter a relationship for a deeper emotional connection than men?

429
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: Men maybe enter for a different purpose. And then that's

430
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: also why when that falls out, the women chooses to exit.

431
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: That lands very well on me. I would say that's

432
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: a thousand percent accurate that women are kind of the

433
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: drivers of both the inn and the out because of

434
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: because the emotion plays such an important part for women

435
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and and the definition defining it saying

436
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 1: like okay, so wait, are we are we monogamous? Are

437
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: we this? And we're this? And have to define it

438
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: in a way that makes more sense. And I think

439
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: the connection is so for women, and people can email

440
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: us and call us and tell us, but for women

441
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: the connection is emotional. The emotion, the sex, all of

442
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 1: it creates the relationship and the connection. So as it

443
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: starts to dissipate, they are seeing the relationship fall apart.

444
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: Whereas men, I do think, have an easier time as

445
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: the relationship is very secondary to them. I have my golf,

446
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: I have my job, I have my kids, I have

447
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: my life. And yeah, you're you're okay, Yeah, why do

448
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: you think that is? Why is that different? Sound like?

449
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: Is that really I've never been out with a golfer before.

450
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: They's the only date water polo players, but I've switched

451
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: it to golf because you're a cap of Okay, let

452
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: me get your guys. This question or not a question,

453
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: but a comment about that. I feel like girls and

454
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: women in general, when all of their friends are getting married,

455
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: they will then rush into there's like a social pressure

456
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: jump into relationship just to get married or we've definitely

457
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: I disagree with that. Oh, I think it's a thousand

458
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: percent true. I think it's like a I disagree with it.

459
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody in my head that's going, oh

460
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: my god. And maybe I just don't know, but like,

461
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: oh my god, everybody's getting married. I need to find

462
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: somebody and just Dmitri, what do you think. I think

463
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: they're currently dating somebody and they're like, let's get married.

464
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: I think I don't get that. Oh my god, Brooks.

465
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: I have many friends that panic married. They were like

466
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: late twenties early because every one of their friends we

467
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: were Rick and I have all the same friends. They

468
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: all did it, and they married like a giant toolbag

469
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: because they were so desperate to get married. Because in

470
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: our society, you feel like a giant failure if you

471
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: aren't married and don't have kids. That wad say, that's

472
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: a very good point. It totally works on the A.

473
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: We see a trend among friends and then you see

474
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: the whole domino toppling of these of these groups of friends.

475
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: And I've seen that here in l A. I've talked

476
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: to people in New York. One of the reasons when

477
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: we created It's over Easy, which is this online website

478
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: where you can get divorced for dollars much less than

479
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: what I would charge you at my office. But the

480
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: main point of it was to also have a community.

481
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: So you join that community. There's a whole bunch of contents.

482
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: You can read about it, reach out to other people,

483
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts about it, have you know, group chat

484
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: so that you don't have to then convince your friends

485
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: that you're having dinner with tomorrow night. To get divorced.

486
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: You can talk to somebody across the country that's getting divorce,

487
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: you know. And and also a ton of resources so

488
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: that you can either find mental health, find childcare, find

489
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: insurance if it's not available through your employer, find dating apps,

490
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: and also find you know, you could see your engagement

491
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: rank online. It's perfect. You're getting divorced. Oh hey, what's

492
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: going on? Do you like? What do you think of

493
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: a mediator? I love mediators. I would say that at

494
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 1: our firm, probably of our divorces are mediated because it's

495
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: just prohibitively expensive, both financially and emotionally to have a

496
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: trial and to go to court, and our courts are

497
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: so clogged. So find a mediator, which is a neutral

498
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: party that has some experience. We use a lot of

499
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: retired judges. I now do some mediation too, rarely where

500
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: I'm the mediator and I represent and I work with

501
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: both parties to do it because I've been doing this

502
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: long enough and on top don't have to So you

503
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: could and you could both have consulting attorneys. But it

504
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: still makes it easier than you don't have to run

505
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: to court and get like a slamming of the gavel verdict.

506
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: You can have somebody say, you know what, this is

507
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: what will probably happen. How do you feel about this?

508
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: And it's really helpful because the other thing is, especially

509
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: in a divorce, it's like no other kind of lawsuit.

510
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: If you're in a landlord tenant lawsuit or fender bender,

511
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: you want to get the other person. You want to win,

512
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: and you want to smash them whatever. We can't really

513
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: do that in a divorce. You might feel like you

514
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: want to. But one, this is your money. There's a

515
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: pot of your money. It belongs to both of you.

516
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: The more you spend and go out of the pot

517
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: to the lawyers and the forensic accounts and the exports,

518
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: the less you have for you and your kids. But two,

519
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: and most importantly, after the fender bender, you're never gonna

520
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: see that person again. After the divorce, you're gonna see

521
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: the person at the parent teacher conference, You're gonna see

522
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: the person at the birthday party. You got to figure

523
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: out a way get along with them Thanksgiving if you're

524
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: in my family. Yeah, and getting wassard can be expensive,

525
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: So it's probably Do people not get divorced because of

526
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: money where they stay together because they are like cheaper

527
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: to keeper. Having ever heard that, wait to have this

528
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,239
Speaker 1: great joke, what what's what is the Barbie Barbie the

529
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: Barbie dream house. Barbie Dreamhouse comes with all the accessories,

530
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: the dream house and the clothing and the wardrobe and

531
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: the RV. And Ken just comes by himself because she

532
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: took everything, or some joke about that. He certainly does.

533
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: You can doesn't have anything, Gavin, do you feel sort

534
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: of like I do about marriage because we've seen divorce

535
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: and we don't want that, So it's like, why I'm

536
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: not I'm not afraid of marriage at all. I'm just

537
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: afraid of divorce. I think that. And it wouldn't it

538
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't be so terrifying if divorce wasn't incentivized the reality

539
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: is that divorce has become completely incentivized in Western civilization period,

540
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: and and it's just it's financially bizarre that you would

541
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: reward a failing system. And you think that we reward

542
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: it because she gets half your money doesn't have to

543
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: be she in his case, Well, you know, it's bizarre

544
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: to me that we we would reward failure. In almost

545
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: no other structure do we reward failure. So why would

546
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: you reward failure to Okay, I take issue with two things.

547
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: One I don't necessarily think it's a failure, but let's

548
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: leave that alone. Why who's being rewarded? I'm saying, if

549
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: there's a higher earner and a low earner and the

550
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: relationship doesn't work, Okay, So here's how maybe change your

551
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: way of thinking a little bit. And I'm not saying

552
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: I agree with the law. But the law is when

553
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: you get married, the high earner is earning money from

554
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: community efforts, which means it's already half her money in

555
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: this hypothetical situation. So we're not rewarding her. She already

556
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: owns half of it. I'm not saying taking her half

557
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: and leaving the party. Right. Okay, here's a question. So

558
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't know all about the law here, you do, right,

559
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at it from this distant, distant window

560
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: right of people that I know who have had divorces

561
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: and it's been very costly. Okay, people who maybe have

562
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: had been married for five years, they had a kid,

563
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: and and the sort of the the the X turns

564
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: into an absolute terror and greedy and absolutely torments the

565
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: the X waiving the power, having the power of waiving

566
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: the kids in front of them, and really weaponizing things

567
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: that shouldn't be weaponized. Right, So have you seen that?

568
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: And That's what I'm talking about. So we're rewarding people

569
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: for walking away from the system that was supposed to

570
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: be helping each other. And you may think I'm wrong

571
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: saying that, but I've seen I've seen that with people

572
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: that I knew, friends of mine, who I felt like

573
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: they were just getting raped over the coals, you know,

574
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: I felt like they got maybe someone took advantage of

575
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: their financial situation. They were, you know, they were lonely,

576
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: essentially working their ass off and providing, you know, essentially

577
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: living a good life and on someone that wanted to

578
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: do that with them and got used for that essentially. Yes,

579
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: and again I will say to people that kind of

580
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: hypothetical that you explain, I'll say you created this monster.

581
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: You took her in, you started providing her with this lifestyle.

582
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: In the situation you described, he'd only be paying spousal

583
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: support for about two and a half years, half the

584
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: length of the marriage. I know it's not nothing, and

585
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: he's likely not paying much more than what he was

586
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: paying for her to have that lifestyle. Anyway, It's just that, Yeah,

587
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: it hurts when you're writing a check and it's going away.

588
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: It's different if you're writing a check and it's all

589
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: happening under your same roof. If you're all in Cabo,

590
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: you don't quite mind so much. Then if she's in

591
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: Cabo with your kids and you're paying for it, I

592
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: see more. Do you see more and more women who

593
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: are having to pay spousal support, Yes, spousal and child.

594
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: And again they come in and they're like, what do

595
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: you mean this guy's been sitting on the couch for

596
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: fifteen years. I want this albatross off from around my neck.

597
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: I'm the woman. I shouldn't you know? And I said, well,

598
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: the laws underblind, honey, you And then that's how I

599
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: feel it should be. Totally genderblind. It is, and it

600
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: is much more in California now with regard to custody

601
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: too of kids. I mean people come in and say, well,

602
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm the mom, I should have the kids, and I'm like, yeah,

603
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: not so much. The kids have a right to have

604
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: access I think equally, if possible, based on time sharing

605
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: careers in location with both of their parents. I love

606
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: your approach. Just listening to you to I love your

607
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: approach to a very sensitive and tough topic. I have

608
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: two really quick topics before we go. One is, and

609
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: I think we kind of addressed it. Is conscious uncoupling

610
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: much better than unconscious coupling, which sometimes happens like right

611
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: after the separation. Okay, dive into that. Dive into the

612
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: term of consciously. Don't think Chris Martin made it famous,

613
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: but I've interviewed the woman who wrote the book about

614
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: conscious like and yeah, and I think it's actually quite

615
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: um if you really dig into it and read the book.

616
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: It's basically what Laura was talking about, how everyone's at

617
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving the goal is to make it. I don't know

618
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: you can explain that. I'm sure you have couples that

619
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: attempt it, but it's um. Keeping the relationship good for

620
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: you and that person and children if they're involved, because

621
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have to be so ugly. But basically it's

622
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: the marriage didn't fail, it worked, and now you're going

623
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: to move on. You're changing how your family functions. You're

624
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: so a family, but you're changing the way you approach

625
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: your familial relationship. It's what you said before, do you

626
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: hate your X more than you love your kids? I

627
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: would hope not, So there's no reason to not try

628
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: and make that situation. I think conscious uncoupling is what

629
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: I try to do now in all relationships, not just marriage,

630
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: because it's like, why should it be so ugly when

631
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: maybe it was beautiful? And then like, for a variety

632
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: of reasons, some beyond my control, it doesn't work out.

633
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: Everybody it's like this is but I really, I mean

634
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: if you, if I say to people all the time

635
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: you're going through this, think about something that you really

636
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: used to love about this person. He was in the

637
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: delivery room with you, holding your hand while you were

638
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: pushing out those babies. And there has to be something

639
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: that got you into this relationship, made you fall in love.

640
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: Tap into that. Because the other thing is if you're

641
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: so consciously hating on your ex and you have kids,

642
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: that same energy you were talking about before books that's

643
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 1: in the house carries through and your kids go to wait,

644
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: I'm half that guy or gal and he or she

645
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: so hates that guy or gal. How do they feel

646
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: about me? Parents should not bring the children into the

647
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: argument or even have the argument in front of the kids.

648
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: They feel it, they hear it there. What do you say? Kids?

649
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: Turn around? We go outside. We have someone that works

650
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: with us. She's twenty four years old, and her parents

651
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: drag her into all their arguments. Lam. I can't imagine

652
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: what it's like. My parents have been married. Now we

653
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: celebrate their forty five wedding anniversary this past summer. My

654
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: wife's parents are divorced. I can't imagine what it would

655
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: be like as a child to know your parents being

656
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: divorced party divorce. When I was young, I was like

657
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: four when they split up. Um, and I was the

658
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: last of five kids. But I'll say this, times have

659
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: changed in the sense that when I was little, I

660
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: used to think and maybe I've just mat sure. When

661
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: I was little, because of that, my parents did not

662
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: get along for so many years. It was brutal. Um.

663
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: So when I was little, I used to think, that's

664
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: the worst thing that can happen to to a marriage

665
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: is or to to a couple is the divorce. And

666
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: now that I'm older and I see how it affects

667
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: kids and all this type of stuff, and I lived

668
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: through it, I think the worst thing that can happen

669
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: is to have a loveless marriage and and fight and

670
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: and stay together. But so I don't think divorce is

671
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: the worst thing anymore. But I think to be fighting

672
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: like that the way I grew up, it was very difficult.

673
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: Can we quickly touch on the gray divorce? Gavorce is

674
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: also speaking of we're talking about anybody over saying, anyone

675
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: over fifty that gets divorce is the great divorce, and

676
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 1: it's more and more common, right, and those are now

677
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: the people that I graduated place school with. But the

678
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: great divorce again, it's either people who have empty nesters,

679
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: their kids have grown up and left, or I think

680
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: one of the statistics is second marriages haven't even higher divorce,

681
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: right than like, if you've already been through it once,

682
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: you're like Alan tipper Goore, like they were married for

683
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: like fifty years and they were pretty old, and then

684
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: suddenly they get divorced and you're like why bother. Why why?

685
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: But why why do you ask that question? Because you're saying,

686
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: what their happiness the remaining years of their life doesn't matter. Well,

687
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 1: I'm stop why I'm bringing it up. I think people

688
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: are living longer and so they're they're more willing to

689
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: get divorced in their sixties than they used to be.

690
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I've had people come to me. Last year

691
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen, I actually had three divorces where

692
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: the parties were eighty or older. And that's when I

693
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: was truly like, I was like my father and actually

694
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: there is there is there advice here you go. The

695
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: fight was over, the settlement was about who gets to

696
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: keep the medicine cabin and there are there's some laws though.

697
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: If you die when your spouse when you're married, versus

698
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: dying when you're divorced, there's all kinds of tax benefits.

699
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're weighted out, you know, so, I mean,

700
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: but but yes, it is because people are saying, I

701
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: only have this much time left and I really want

702
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: to be happy. I'm not going to do this for

703
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: one more year. I mean, it is true when humans

704
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: only lived until like thirty, it was a lot easier

705
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: to stay married for your whole life. My grandma did that.

706
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: My grandma got divorced and ended up dating a new

707
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: per person, actually the first person she ever dated in

708
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: high school and was amazingly, amazingly, she was so happy.

709
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: He ended up passing, but she was so happy during

710
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: those years of her life. I have a question. I

711
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: think that's that's really cool. I do love those stories too,

712
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: when when you realize that somebody from your past, but

713
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: that's pretty exciting. I have a question, though, from your observations, Laura,

714
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: is there if you were to give just straight up advice,

715
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: do you think there's an age that's too early to

716
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: get married? Great one. It's hard to say because it

717
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: depends on the people. I mean, I know there's some

718
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: year old out there, um, and then there's some super

719
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: immature for two year olds out there. But how are you,

720
00:39:50,280 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: Laura somehow April seventeen, She's like, they're usually rock stars. Laura,

721
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: here's a because I I really listening to you talk.

722
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 1: I really respect and admire your approach to this topic.

723
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: You aren't in it just to like make money and

724
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: get people on their way, like you actually care about

725
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: all parties involved. You look at all scenarios and you

726
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: actually care about people's happiness. So I want to commend

727
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: you for all of that and how you handle yourself

728
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: personally professionally. It's amazing. Now that being said, because I

729
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: gave you that dandy of a compliment, I get to

730
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: ask you this question. What is the ugliest divorce you

731
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: have ever seen? You don't have to name names, but

732
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: what is just ugly to them? Because it was probably

733
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: really nice for you. What is the one where you

734
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: just have a story? This all I did not represent

735
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: either of the course you know what it is. And

736
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: these are these are the ones. There's there's two to

737
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 1: three that like really hit in my head. They all

738
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: involve child custody. The child custodies are the soul crushers.

739
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: And in all honesty, I would trade my house if

740
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: I didn't have to go through those cases, because you do,

741
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: you get very tight with people and you take on

742
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: a lot of their angst and you see the true

743
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: evil in people when they are fighting about their children.

744
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: And again if there's allegations of abuse or somebody wants

745
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: to move across the country. So you can't just do

746
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: like two days, two days, three days of shared custody

747
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: because they're living a few blocks apart. And it's those

748
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: kind of things where you just it is just it

749
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: it takes so much out of you. And those are

750
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: the ugliest there by far. I mean, there's funny things

751
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: where you know, somebody throws a stiletto healing it actually

752
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: gets stuck in the door. Or this person wanted to

753
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: trade an STD test for a get, which is a

754
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: Jewish divorce. Like I'm like, that's a weird you know

755
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: combo but oka or poisoning of you know, cats so

756
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: that there's like diarrhea all over the white condom in

757
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: him when they gave a cat. That stuff is funny,

758
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: and that's the stuff that I'm like, made that at

759
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: fifty dollars reading that letter. Okay, fine, the kid ones

760
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: are the ones that just are so so sad. And

761
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: that's why I do it the way you said Brooks,

762
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: try to approach it in a way that I really

763
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: want to change the way people look at divorce and

764
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: try to make it better. And I highly recommend Laura's podcast.

765
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: I've obviously never been married or divorced, and I I'm

766
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: addicted to the podcast. I think it's really good relationship

767
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: the podcast is called Divorces, called divorce Sucks, but by

768
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: the time this air is it's going to be called

769
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: All's Fair, like All's fair in love and war. It's

770
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: on my heart. Check us out. I think Amy is

771
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: a bigger fan of divorce and marriage, Like, if you

772
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: could just get divorced, you would do that. I think

773
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: divorce sucks. But I'm I actually I'm not. You know,

774
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: you know what we called it, Gavin a good time. Yeah,

775
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: so here, here's what it is. You go in dirty,

776
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: but you come out clean. And it's like it's like

777
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: when a product overtakes an entire category. So instead of

778
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: saying search it, you say, why don't you just google it?

779
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: Or you're like, can I have a Kleenix? Like Kleenix

780
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: is the brand name, it's actually a tissue, you know,

781
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: it could be you could be yeah, just wasper. Just

782
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: get a wasser. Honey, here's the thing. I think we

783
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: need to get divorce. Maybe we can. That will change

784
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: the whole image of it. That could be your leg meant,

785
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: this girl I just got was actually what people just like,

786
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: I've been through two wassers already. I don't think I

787
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: can do it. Hey, I'm dating this girl. She you know,

788
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: she's wassered but she hadn't that kid. But she's great.

789
00:43:53,280 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: Oh what a dubious honor you are so thank you

790
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: for having to cal where like a couple. We're not

791
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: because she went to golf instead of water polo. I

792
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: love my golfer. He is so great. He's gone for

793
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: eight hours day exactly. Um, that's why we're so happy.

794
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: So where can people get in touch with you? Laura?

795
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: So the the old the podcast now as we record

796
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: this called Divorce Sucks. The new ones called All's Fair

797
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: word anywhere you get your your podcast. But where case people,

798
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 1: people besides my wife get in touch with you except

799
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: your wife can't get in touch with me. On it's

800
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: over easy dot com. We have our Instagram which is

801
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: at It's over easy and uh Laura Wasser Official is

802
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: another Instagram. And we are also launching a post divorce

803
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: It's called Next Chapter series. Four people that have been

804
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: divorced and they kind of want some tips on how

805
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: to move forward in their lives. So all those fun

806
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 1: things Valentine's Day. Valentine's Day, So all of you listeners,

807
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: there you go. There's a gift to you from our

808
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: generous producer Ab Sugar shows how I feel about Valentine's

809
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: She's the grin of Valentin, poor boyfriend. But in real

810
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 1: that was a real discussion Rose dinner. That's what we're

811
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: looking for, Um, that was that was actually a really

812
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: interesting discussion though, like because it is such commonplace. I

813
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: know many people, many people and have it in my family,

814
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: people that are divorced. Um, And I never I never

815
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: looked at it the way you looked at it. I

816
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: do look at it that I want people to live

817
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: happy and fulfilled lives. I want that for every single soul.

818
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: But the way you look at the situation with such

819
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: a sensitivity and a kindness and authenticity and caring for

820
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: the people involved, I just I really commend you, Laura.

821
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I learned a lot here today.

822
00:45:52,560 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: Thank you. I want to see the still. Thank you

823
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: very much for coming on. We appreciate you. Look her up,

824
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: look up her podcast or new podcast, and I hope

825
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: you just love the I heart team, our producers here, Tory,

826
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: Danielle Amy, everybody involved with our our show East and

827
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: our engineer. Everybody is just amazing. And I hope you

828
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: love the new journey. UM and I'm really happy for you,

829
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: but I hope I'm never on your podcast enough. Thank

830
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: you very much, Thank you guys, Thank you everybody for

831
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: listen until next week. Take care of one another, love

832
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: one another, and we will see you right back here

833
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: for another episode of How Men Think