WEBVTT - Ep. 47: Iain Harrison & Ryan Callaghan 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:06.400 Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of The Hunting Collective. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:11.639 I've been O'Brien and today I am in the Lost Wages, Nevada. 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:14.680 Uh here at the Shot Show and I'm hanging out 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.599 with Ryan Callahan and the Mediator crew as always, and 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.439 UH my friend, a longtime friend, Ian Harrison, who is 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.079 currently the editor in chief of Recoil Magazine, which is 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.680 a one of the better gun magazines out in the world. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.000 It's on news stands and you're able to subscribe to 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.440 it as well. I believe it'll they'll mail it to you. Uh. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.560 It's a great conversation. Ian has uh an incredible background 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:43.839 when it comes to firearms ownership. His perspective is a 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.760 unique one, and you'll find out why. In this podcast. 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:51.000 We delved into, uh, some of the more political discussions 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.400 we've had in the past. That can be I will 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.240 warn you they can be. They can fire folks up. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.560 Everyone will have their opinions about our discussion, but I 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.880 think what, as always we tried to do is to 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.679 examine these things. Don't be afraid to wait into tough 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.200 issues and examine them with pragmatism and a careful nature. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.200 So hopefully you'll agree with that as you listen to 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:21.080 episode number seven with Ian Harrison. Hi, Ian, Hello, Ben, 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.920 how are you? I'm finding down here? I mean, how 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:25.720 how better could I be? I mean, I'm hooked up 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:31.200 to an IVY I know me too. And m Callahan's here, Hey, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:35.040 cal Hello, how are you? I mean, what do you 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:38.039 what do you call it? A non combatant here, combatant 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.560 kind of on his nut, hooked up to an IVY observer. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:43.760 And when you know we're in Vegas, this is what 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:48.200 day three four? Yeahs day three in Vegas. Um, this 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.880 is responsible. It's prophylactic. Yeah. I don't know what that 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:56.880 word means, but I'll go I agree. Uh. You know, 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:58.680 when you're in Vegas, it's a lot of long nights 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.800 and and the shot show is the sickness that has 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.200 passed around via handshakes and hugs and general mouth breathing, 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:13.000 and there's a lot of that going on. Um, while 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.720 we're doing is fighting back and we're taking the battle 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:21.239 to the enemy. Yeah, right now, it's being as aggressive 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.280 as we can. It's definitely prophylactic. That's what we're doing. 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:31.000 Your lovely co editor at Recoil, Your lovely editor, Candice 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.000 was also a registered nurse. She is delightful and delightful 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.720 for sure. Um, so she hooked us up. And so 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.760 now we're going to use our IVY bags as a 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:45.880 timer when the bags are empty. The podcast coming to 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.600 a close. I would like also to have a big 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.960 shout out to Phoenix Fly Department, who supplied all of 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:59.680 the So, Phoenix a hefty You're great, You're great, thank you. 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.399 Without you, Without you, we would be pale faced stumbling, Yes, 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.679 pale face stumbling, hungover and dehydrated. And we've got B 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:14.880 twelve involved. Yeah, sucker vegans, Yes, the sucking vegans. You're 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.040 the editor of Carnivore. We work for meat Eater, So 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.200 sucond vegans I think is implied, but we'll go right 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.120 at him now, cal Why did you not want to 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.320 get hooked up to an ivy? Oh you know, I'm 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.280 just going with the old fashioned way of having a 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:36.080 tall canny beer here. That's right right, water, And yeah, ironically, 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:41.360 we're all drinking beer now while the ivy is flowing. Candice, 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.520 does that counteract the does that in any way counteract 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:52.640 the IVY experience to be drinking during this? Oh? Wow? Okay, 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:56.480 would you mind's going fast. This mine's going too fast. 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.560 Cannus is slowing down my ivy because it's going too fast. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.640 Otherwise we're not gonna have We're gonna get halfway through 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:08.520 a story then, and then we just kept to Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.480 we gotta slow these babies down because we got like, 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.560 we gotta go an hour or two here. Um, yeah, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.240 mine's already. Really it feels cold. Does your feel cold? No, 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:25.480 I'm feeling pretty good now. I'm so cold. It was 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:31.280 like the position, Yeah, Ian's position is all messed up. Yeah, 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.000 I'm coming off. Well, this is great. I'm happy we're 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.520 doing this. Sure it's entertaining for the listeners. Cale, Yes, sir, 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:41.960 were you will you at least take a shot of 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.880 be twelve or something? Yeah? Absolutely, you would do that. 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:49.679 Have that worked for me last year? Do you see? Okay? Alright, well, 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:55.760 I mean in my eye and you're taking shot? Are 0:04:55.800 --> 0:05:01.360 you sure it was betwelve? And you? How was it that? Well? 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.640 Behind a dumpster that looked like nurse says they were 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.640 charging like fifty bucks. I found somebody behind the players 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:09.960 for like five. I had a friend of mine just 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:11.600 texting me. It lives in Bozeman and said like, we 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.800 should start one of these ivy hydration deals because you 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.680 pay like fifty bucks there in Vegas and they'll come 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:21.320 to your room. Um, so maybe Candice could Moonlight has that. 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.479 But they'll come to your room and they'll hook you up, 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:24.800 or you can go down there and they put you 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.240 in like we did it last year. They put you 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.080 in a like a lounge chair and they put turn 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.800 on like Netflix, and they just pump you full off 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.160 or whatever you've paid for them to administer. It's fantastic. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.000 So maybe maybe that's a secondary business. Do you think 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.960 Bozeman would support it. I don't know. Maybe Phoenix would. Yeah, 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.200 I mean Phoenix Matchro is big enough to support it. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.880 But one thing I don't like abo Phoenix is everything 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.240 is so spread out. You know, it takes you an 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.479 hour and a half to drive into the other So 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.360 would that be economically viable. Maybe you'd have to factor 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.120 in that time, Milledge. I think we can do it, Bozeman. 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.599 Everything's about fift teen minutes away. A big, big part 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.680 of this too is you know, you got your you 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:13.200 got your high endurance athlete crowd around to it. Especially Yeah, yeah, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:15.760 and you'd have to say it's our teas and all 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.719 farm to vein. This is all non gm O, it's 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:29.320 gluten free b twelves. Yes, well, we were talking before 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.240 the podcast that where Ian and I met, and I 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:34.880 feel like, you know, I've been in the industry for 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.039 you know, like eleven years, maybe something ten years, and 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.280 um Ian was like maybe the first person that I 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.080 met outside of the walls of the n r A 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.120 where I worked at the time. Huh. If I'd known that, 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:52.600 you would never be uh. Ian was on a show 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:59.120 called Top Shot indeed, and uh tell us about that show. 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:05.400 Ian so reality based competition format shooting show, which doesn't 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.520 sound like those words should ever go together, but then 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.720 managed five seasons out of it and they did a 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.640 good job of bringing the shooting sports to a wider audience. 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:19.800 So yeah, I've I have to thank everybody who's evolved 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.200 with that and allowing me to bridge over from what 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.840 I was doing before and into the shooting industry, and 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.960 um so I forced got my way entirely through it. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.240 I'm not qualified to do anything that the things that 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.920 I've been doing for the last twenty years, So um 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.200 this is just one more thing that I was not 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.280 qualified And what year. What year was this that you won? This? 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.360 Believing then this is nine years ago, nine years ago. Yeah, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.000 people don't even know. Kids that today don't even know 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.960 about top show. There's nine year ten year old kids 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.760 run around. I've never seen it. Unbelievable. Yeah, I have 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.040 to do reruns. But it was five seasons and you 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.200 were the first champion, and then you were appeared on 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.880 other show other seasons, right, yeah, yeah, I came back 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.360 on every every season after that, A is either next. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.360 But again that was not qualified to do. So there 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.000 any clips around him this Like when like did the 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.440 it was the History Channel there, so it was, like 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.080 you said, it was a mainstream you know, at the time, 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.760 I'm working at the NAIs and editor for American Hunter 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:22.560 American Rifleman, and we're looking for mainstream you know, acceptance 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.480 of guns and gun culture. And it really was that, right, 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.600 I mean absolutely, and uh it spawned a bunch of 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.160 other sort of me to firewers related reality shows, which 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.880 and I'm pleased to say that I think Top Shot 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.720 is the only firewmers related reality TV show that did 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.360 not result in a criminal conviction. You're right. I was 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.440 a part of another one of those what was that. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.079 So there were various other ones like I think Sons 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.280 of Gun, Sons of Guns. I knew that family very well, um, 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.280 and I actually had also I wrote an article, a 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.839 feature article in Your Life and Your Win, uh from 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:01.480 I can write from, and then Sons of Guns came 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.439 out and I did the same for those guys. Um, 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.160 you know that was maybe my beat at the time, 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.760 and that your story works out well. The story of 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.160 Sons Guns, the elevid show from Discovery Channel perhaps not 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.600 properly vetted individuals. Yeah, I would say that's probably the case. 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.760 There was a little bit of some improper things going 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:29.200 on in the Red Jacket Gun Shop. Um, and so 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.839 that that is a long since defunct and some folks 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:38.240 are in jail and absolutely justifiably, absolutely justifiably. So I 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.040 don't I don't want to talk about that. You can 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.000 look it up. Just you can look up I'll google 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.200 that and read it. We don't need to cover that here. 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.080 But uh, yeah, there was another show after that. We're 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.800 a similar thing. What was it? We don't even need 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.319 to say. The show that was Colorado Basic another show 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:02.640 something that dude went down for other to various sacks 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.280 and so. But you, you you and your fellow top shotters, 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.319 because I see a lot of them walking around here. Man, 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.679 Like back in the day, man, you guys had it 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.880 was like a family. Yeah, uh yeah, from that show. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.680 In fact, I saw one of them this morning, and uh, 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.400 Chris Sereno remains one of my longest standing friends in 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.360 the firearms industry. And he was my rival at last 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.920 Dude Standing in season one and we went head to 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.680 head and you know, I won, he lost, and we've 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.200 remained great friends ever since. And he was staying at 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.240 my house just last week. Man. It's it's it's interesting 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.360 because you know, it's a reality TV show, it's a 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.840 production for television. But I remember from those years, like 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.480 you guys were tight. You would just show up at 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:47.439 the trade shows and it was it was, it was 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.400 a real thing. Yeah. I even I met up with 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.480 j J. Ricaza, another champion, and that guy's been crushing. 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:54.880 He's a he's a beast, he's an athlete, he's a 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.160 he's somebody that children should look up to, because j 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.480 J is one of the nicest guys you ever meet. 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.200 And yeah, I ran into him a range day on Monday. 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.360 And if you're gonna look up to eat and you 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.880 should at least be an adult, not a child. Yeah, 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.880 I'm probably the worst example of humanity your children will 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.880 never meet. But JJ, on the other hand, you know, 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.640 he's a prince among men. Yeah. Yeah, Well that was 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.440 an interesting time. And so that's when we met because 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.760 I watched the show and thought, here's a person that 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:29.760 uh and then I heard a little bit about your 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:31.960 story and I was like, wow, here's a person that 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.160 needs to be highlighted. And um, so we did, right. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.199 You came, you came to I came to nime h 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.880 Q and did the interview with you with your good self. 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.680 And as a result of that and a chance of 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:48.440 meeting with Mark Keith in a corridor, I said, he 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.440 asked me, you know, what do you want to do now? 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:51.720 And I said, well, I kind of I want to 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.000 go of in the firearms industry full time, and he said, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.240 let me make a phone call. And as a result 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.240 of that, and of totally grateful to Mark all that, 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:04.559 but as a result of that, I ended up working 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.040 at Crimson Trast for two years as the pr guy 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.920 and taking credit for that. All this time. Yeah, I've 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.600 been telling people like you gotta start because I well 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.679 indirect many of you got me there, and yeah, I 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.040 mean I like meeting with Mark, but Mark was I 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.160 took you to the hallway the bathrooms down there, and 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.120 you you were at it there. Talk to everybody you can. Yeah, 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:34.240 if you see a guide, it looks important. So you know, 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.760 I'm and were where were you at two thousand ten? 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:44.280 Were you US citizen? Uh? Not quite? Not quite. Um. 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:50.320 I was working in the construction industry, and um, I 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:54.080 was started off as a timber framer in the construction 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.880 industry and then went rose through the ranks and that, 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.160 and then ended up being general manager of the company 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.640 that I was working for. And then they kind of 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.400 gave me a checkbook and said, go west young man 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.600 established a new branch of this organization I was working 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.640 for in the Poland, Oregon area and did that, and 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.800 then while I was there, I went on to top 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.840 shot audition for that, then went through that whole sordid 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.559 process and then came out the other end, and apparently 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.120 I managed to get through it without people discovering my entirely, 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.040 you know, my my gross lack of skill. So I 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.800 blowed my way through that and then Ben invited me 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.200 to the headquarters and editor in chief of American Rifleman, 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.600 Mark Keith made a phone callum on my behalf and 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.679 hooked me up with Crimson Trace, who are a great 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:43.520 company and in the Northwest would staff with some fantastic people. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.280 And the founder of the company, Lou Danielson, is like 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:52.960 everybody's crazy uncle. He's he's larger than I was trying 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.880 to find him this week. But the dude is to say, 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.800 it's like everybody everybody's crazy uncle who goes and tinkers 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.000 and invents things, and he's just a wonderful, wonderful human being. 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.920 And there are lots and lots of blue stories and 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:08.960 uh and as as as a result of that, I 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.880 was in the right place at the right time when 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.240 my current gig with Recoil, they needed a new editor 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.360 in chief and I thought maybe I could do that. 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.040 I mean, nobody told me I couldn't. No, Yeah, nobody 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.800 seemed to have instructed up to this point. But yeah, 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.000 you I was going into marketing at the time. I 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.880 had been an editor and then went to Peterson Tunning 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:33.840 and been an editor there, and then I was going 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:41.360 into marketing. When you were going from marketing into editorial, Yeah, yeah, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:48.120 so who's the biggest hole me? Maybe? Yeah. Anyway, anyway, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:49.560 if anybody's listening to this and wants to give me 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:55.120 free gear, I'm in Uh so you you know, you 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.080 spent some time, you know, like that's it's an interesting turn, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:02.320 Like for for how I think that your life proceeding 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.520 top shot and in our meeting, in your conversation with Mark, 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.560 it was even probably more interesting, but it's it's an 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.760 interesting turn to where you are today from from a 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.320 reality TV show and I remember just being like this 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:22.640 dude's in construction, former military, British military. He wins the 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.040 reality show and now he's doing what he loves to 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.920 do in a country where he's allowed to do it 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.240 like it's it's he has pretty much the American dream. Yeah, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.200 you know, and for any any detractors of this great nation, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:38.320 I would say that, you know, well, first off, get 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.200 your head out of your offs and um yeah, it's 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.480 just like this is the one place on earth that 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.440 I know that offers those kind of opportunities. But if 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.800 you want to seize them, then that's all down to you. 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.320 You can't just sitting here awesome let them. You expect 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.440 things to be handed to you on a plate. And 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.120 like I said, I've been phenomenally lucky. But um, at 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.880 the same time, you know I haven't just coasted through it. Yeah, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.440 you know, you work hard and you get there. Um, 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.680 what's you know you're explain your current gig? Okay, So 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.480 current gig is I'm the editor in chief of Recoil 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:16.560 Magazine and well that's why, aw we started out Recoil is. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.600 I don't know, how would we describe Recoil Countess, how 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:32.920 would we describe Recoil the honor the most honest and 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:41.680 visually captivating gun magazine based out of Phoenix. That was 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:44.640 I wouldn't say just missed out of things, but we 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.960 will bass out of l a. But right is subsequently 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.400 that was changing, but I'll touch on that in a minute. Um. 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.840 So yeah, So Recoil was founded in I think twenty eleven, 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:57.080 um if I if I remember correctly, and the whole 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.320 premise of it was that, um, a bunch of really 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.480 smart dudes got together and sort of looked at the 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.359 the marketplace at the time and in publishing they were 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:12.280 in probably polishing background, and they decided that you know what, 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.480 there's an awful lot of gun magazines out there and 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:20.240 most of them are shit, and they decided to create 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:24.119 their own and by doing so kind of set the 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:28.159 bar in terms of certainly graphic layout and quality of photography, 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.480 and um yeah, so that that was kind of it 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.760 to start off with. And since then, uh well let 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.359 me back up a little bit. So recall this See 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.359 one was launched a short show twleven and then it 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.400 was an s I p SO or special interest publication, 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.119 So it was a one off at that point and 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.760 the kind of testing the waters just to see if 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:55.320 it would fly, and it did, so more issues were 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.600 created and it was then became a bi annual publication, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:01.960 and then subsequently when I took it over, was kind 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:03.439 of you know, okay, it's going to be a quarterly 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:08.160 something like that, but by s U four because it 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.960 was created out of California, by guys who who are 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.520 kind of tied into the California firearms scene, which is 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:21.680 not perhaps the most vigorous. We'll call that an oxymen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.479 they kind of ended up saying some things that they 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.480 probably shouldn't have done, and as a result of that, 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.119 it was kind of an object lesson as to how 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:30.879 to ruin a brand over the course of a weekend, 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:36.199 and I then had the opportunity to step in and 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:40.720 sort of rescue it. Since then managed to get a 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:45.800 great team hired, some really dedicated and uh sort of 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:50.640 creative individuals. UM and hiring, hiring and managing creatives, as 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:56.720 you well know, has its own set of has its 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.600 kind of like a box of fireworks exploding. It Ye, 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.720 lots of things happening, many different directions. Well, explain to 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.720 people how like what you're um because we're in the 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.480 media world here, so we can talk about it all day. 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.560 But for folks who don't know the the general like 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.399 you read Field and Stream, you read Peers and Hunting, 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:21.560 what's happening there is the advertising is running the ship. There. 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.360 There are two business models in this industry. Explain those 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.679 and give people an idea what you are doing. And 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.400 I you know, I'm not judgmentalist to which one is better. 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.560 The one that we operate on is that in my 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.399 most important, my most important client, the one guy that 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.879 I or girl that I have to satisfy is the 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.639 person who goes to the local newsstand and stumps up 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:44.640 nine dollars because we have a nine dollar cover price. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.840 It's so you know, it's an expensive magazine and they 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.040 put down nine bucks of the hart and cash every 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.359 couple of months in order to buy an issue. Um, 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.200 that is the person that I write for. There. Now, 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.119 there is another business model, which is pretty which is 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.080 prevalent and pre eminent in the industry and has worked 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:07.000 very well over the past few decades, and that In 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.040 that one, you kind of look at what the numbers are. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:17.080 So if I'm offering, say a two year subscription at 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.840 you kind of figure okay, that doesn't really cover the 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.960 cost of postage. And I know is if I was 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.880 a writer working for that magazine, then you know, all 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.080 of my income was funded from the cover price. At 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:35.320 a subscription of twenty fours, then I wouldn't be getting 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:40.879 out of bed um. So in that case, okay, how 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.280 did that does that? Does that company? How does that 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.720 publication make money? Well, it's advertising driven, So you pump 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.960 up your circulation numbers so that you can go to 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.960 advertise and say, okay, I'm reaching half a million people 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.840 and advertisers go okay, so it sounds good. Yeah. What 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.600 they call CPM CPMP impression and it's you know, per 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.000 times a thousand basically, and and those folks are, like 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:09.000 you said, a cheaper subscription means generally more subscribers, which 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.239 means you can charge and advertise more for those. More 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:16.080 about super simple. So your your page price per advert 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.159 within the book is you know, you can charge more 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.160 for it, and that's what covers you overheads, and that's 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.879 what pays you, right is And that's what you know 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.760 to come to me sew profits We're all in here, 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:28.480 all in this business to make profit. Yeah, and that's 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.840 what it is. And there's no you know, there's no 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:37.480 shame in either either way. I'm predisposed to working for 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:39.720 the audience. You know, I'm and I'm and I've done 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.720 you know, obviously in my past been a part of 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.560 a lot of different editorial operations, and um, I always 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:50.000 have felt and felt very strongly that the relationship with 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:54.120 the reader, the one you're talking about, particularly in your case, 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:56.680 you you can you know exactly what that person, how 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.479 that transaction happens. They go to the news stand, they 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.720 pick it up, they pay for it, they go home, 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:06.520 and they read it. Um, I feel like that's that's 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:11.040 the most important thing. You know, agree with that, And 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.400 like I say, I'm not denigrating anybody else's business model, 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:15.600 but that is the way that we do it. Yeah, 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:17.600 And it says this is a just a motivation and 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.040 not saying that any of these any other publication is 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.959 driven by anything else other than the relationship with the audience. 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:25.480 But there's a purity scale somewhere in there that says, 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.639 you know, how does your business model inform your intent 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.440 in some ways? Agreed? Agreed? Now does it is successful? Now? 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.480 Which one? Which one is the most successful at the moment? 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:38.920 And I think what we've seen is a cultural shift 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:41.439 over the last decade or so, and it's mainly been 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:46.479 driven by digital content and the accessibility of other people's 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:52.480 opinions online. Whereas now it's kind of the audience recognizes 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.040 that there is a pay to play element and a 0:22:55.119 --> 0:23:00.479 lot of print publications, and that business model is it's 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.600 still around. It certainly is still around. But you know 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:07.320 we have been successful operating on the other the other model. Well, 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:09.600 and you think, like the audience can sniff it out right, 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.280 I mean, Cal, you're you know, you read and watch 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.200 a lot of content, like can you whoa cal reads? 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:18.360 I can read you read a lot of third secret, 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:22.159 it's a dirty secret. You can tell when somebody's you know, 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:27.280 somebody's not an altruistic in there and their editorial. Uh 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.679 oh yeah. Man. It was like a heartbreaking moment, you know, 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:36.359 years years ago, you know, forking over some cash. Um, 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:40.760 when I was super super into bow hunting, you know, 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:44.000 for the first time. So it's like the strongest that 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.119 y'all ever experienced something is when you're like diving in 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.200