1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Since Walter Potter's taxidermy tableau of the death 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 1: and burial of cock Robin made an appearance in the 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: show this week, we thought we would share our episode 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: on him for Today's Saturday Classic. This episode originally came 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: out on February and it came out when we were 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: transitioning onto the show as host, So it is hosted 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: by me and previous host Sarah Dowdy. And just as 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: a heads up in case it is not obvious from 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: the mention of taxidermy, this episode includes various references to 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: the deaths of small animals. Welcome to Stuff You Missed 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, 12 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: Sarah Dowdy. And do you know is Sarah? Do you 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: recall your first exposure to our topic today, taxidermy? Well, 15 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: I was going to save this story a little bit, 16 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna bring it out now. I was telling 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: it to you already this morning. I'm pretty sure at 18 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: the Atlanta's Capital, Georgia State Capital here in Atlanta, lovely building, 19 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: gold Dome. Anybody who's been to Atlanta has probably noticed it. 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: Driven it. If you grow up in Atlanta, you go 21 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: there on many a field trip. And the most memorable 22 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: memorable part, at least for me and for I think 23 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: most of my classmates, was not the trips to the 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, see the legislators or any of that. What 25 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: was excited about government in action. It was the museum, 26 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: the Little Capital Museum, which featured lots of strange Georgia history, 27 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: but also, most memorably, a two headed calf, a two 28 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: headed snake. Welcome to Georgia is And I said this 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: to you this morning. But I went there sort of 30 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: on a whim just a few years ago, so as 31 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: an adult, and I noticed that those two items were 32 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: not as prominently displayed as they used to be. They 33 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: almost seemed to be displayed just as like a nod. 34 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: We know people really liked these. We have to keep 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: them out, but they're kind of weird and maybe don't 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: exactly belong in the state capital. Yeah, so that's my answer, 37 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: that's my Those are the first clear memories of taxidermia. 38 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: I would have been familial because I both of my 39 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: parents are from farm families that hunted, so I know 40 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: there were some deer head and I vaguely remember being 41 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: at my grandparents house and being barely transfixed by one 42 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: particular buck that I had that simultaneously, oh, this is 43 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: really neat and interesting and oh, dear, he was just 44 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: looking for a meal when you shot families, Dad. Yeah, 45 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: but I do remember being fascinated and like questioning my 46 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: father relentlessly about how did they Why? Who thought this 47 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: was a good idea? What do you they just how? 48 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: Like I was completely simultaneously horrified and just fascinated, like 49 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: why does this exist? Yeah? Why did we do it? 50 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: And then later in my life I was exposed to 51 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: the work of the text ermist we're talking about today, 52 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,119 Speaker 1: who anyone who is into taxidermy I am confident will 53 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: know this person the second we say his name, and 54 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: it is Walter Potter. And I got exposed to his 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: work when I was working in the library and a 56 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: book that featured one of his pieces came across my 57 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: desk and I remember looking at it and then looking 58 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: at it again, and looking at it about seventeen more 59 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: times in the next twelve minutes. And somebody really put 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: this together, uh, because he did these amazing, wondrously bizarre 61 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: tableau with animals and this is where people do need 62 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: to stop for a minute and if you're on your run, okay, 63 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: we'll come back to its. Well, describe a few things, 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: but are going to want the visuals for yourself. Up 65 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: this stuff for sure, and that it makes you wish 66 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: that it was a video podcast at a time like this. 67 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: But check out these because well to describe them, but 68 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: you really need the pictures. And there's some great pictures 69 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: fortunately to like modern color pictures. And we'll talk about 70 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: kind of where his work is now, um, like where 71 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: the physical works exist now, um. But we'll start at 72 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: the beginning. So he was born in Sussex, um in 73 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: five and he worked at his family's in which was 74 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: called the White Lion now it's called the Castle and 75 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: it's in Bramber And I have never I've read several 76 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: biographical accounts about him, no one ever really talks about 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: his early childhood. I presume it was probably pretty standard 78 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: and kids stuff, you know, kids stuff, working in the 79 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: family um in. But then at approximately aged fifteen, he 80 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,119 Speaker 1: I'm pres zooming because no one ever spelled this out either. 81 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm presuming his pet canary passed before he had the 82 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: idea to preserve it um Let's hope. So yeah, it 83 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: was a memento almost. Yeah, And this was at a 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: time when preserving your pets was starting to become more 85 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: popular anyway, So it was not necessarily a thing an 86 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: idea he would have just magically had on his own. 87 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: He may have seen something about it or read something 88 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 1: about it. Not the sign of a disturbed teenage boy, 89 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: a normal thing to do. No, he didn't do it 90 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: that well though. No, Apparently that first effort was not 91 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: so hot, which anytime someone's learning a new craft or trade, 92 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: usually the first go is not going to be a masterpiece. 93 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: There has been some discussion, but there's never been any 94 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: corroboration that he might have been influenced by an exhibit 95 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: that was at the Great Exhibition in London, in one 96 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: by Ermann Pluquet, And anyone feel free to correct me 97 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: if I mispronounced that. But he had an exhibit that 98 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: was small Animal Taxidermy UM, and it was UM basically 99 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: the story of Renicky the Fox, which is based on 100 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: the Wilhelm von Kalbach etchings of Geta's medieval trickster tale. 101 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a uh, it's these if 102 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: you've never seen that one. It's these hilarious little rodents 103 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: that are acting out these adventures, and they're kind of 104 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: like two. It's like a pair that are doing one 105 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: activity after another, like almost like a comic strip animal tableau. Yeah, 106 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: so it's not one big tableau that tells the story. 107 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: It's it's laid out like sequential art. But I like 108 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: the idea that he would have been inspired by the 109 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: Great Exhibition. To so many of the subjects we've discussed 110 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: in the past, including Deablina's last episode, there was some 111 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: toilet inspiration that came from the Great Exhibition. It's an 112 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: exciting time in London. It is this sort of cultural 113 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: point where where all people are exposed to new things 114 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: for the first time. And it certainly seems plausible that 115 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: this young boy from a country village would come across 116 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: something that he found really magical at the Great Exhibition. Well, 117 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: and even like I said, there have not been any 118 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: corroborative writings that say definitively yes, he was there, But 119 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: the Great Exhibition was so big that people were talking 120 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: about the things that they had seen, and it traveled 121 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: even if he had been worth so uh so, yeah, 122 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: he did his Canary and there's a great um quote 123 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: that he gave, apparently in he did a correspondence interview 124 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: with the Idler magazine and he says, well, after I've 125 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: done my canary, people encouraged me to persevere. If they 126 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: saw any bird or animal they thought I would like, 127 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: they'd bring it or send it to me. So he 128 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: was practicing throughout these years after he was fifteen, because 129 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: he did take a shine to this craft, and then 130 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: he got the idea that he could put them together 131 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: in big works of arts. And that's kind of the 132 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: turning point here, not just melting an animal and displaying 133 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: it uniquely creating some scene with it. Yeah. It really 134 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: became almost like a painter with a paintbrush. He would 135 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: create entire vistas and stories using mounted animals. UM. And 136 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: the first big one is the History of cock Robin, 137 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: which uh he used ninety eight birds. I believe that 138 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: he had been working on through the years, and this 139 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: is when he was nineteen. He had gotten all of 140 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: those together and he worked on the history of the 141 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: original death and burial. I'm sorry it wasn't The history 142 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: UM is the original death and Burial of cock Robin. 143 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: And he worked on this for years and years. But 144 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: it basically was a big funeral procession for cock Robin, 145 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: including the I believe it was a sparrow that had 146 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: shot him with an arrow with my arrow. Yeah, and 147 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: there was an owl grave digger, and you know the 148 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: grave is the or there are other animals there to 149 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:08,119 Speaker 1: pay their respects. It's like a big story, yeah, inspired 150 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: by the nursery rhyme to where all of the birds 151 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: are picking their roles the role they will perform during 152 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: cock Robin's funeral. Um. And and that's the other major 153 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: difference here, So putting the animals together in a tableau, 154 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: but not in an animal like way. It's not a 155 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: natural history museum setting. It's a human like setting. Yeah, 156 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: these aren't. Later on he starts to add even more 157 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: human accessories to it. These aren't like clothed yet there 158 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: are a couple with ribbons around their necks. Um. And 159 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: the owl clearly is holding a little little shovel where 160 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: that he's digging the grave with. But yeah, this is 161 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: really you know, as Sariou said the verse time, that 162 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: it was mounted animals doing human things, almost like you 163 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: would see in like a children's book or a cartoon. Yeah, 164 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: that that nurse reevime inspiration is very apparent, and it 165 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: carries through his work pretty much his entire life. Uh. 166 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: So at that point, as his work started to expand, 167 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: they had to expand his work area. So he first 168 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: moved into a barn loft at his family's house. Uh. 169 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: And then once he started creating these big works, they 170 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: went on display at the end. Uh. And there have 171 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: been different accounts of where they went on display and 172 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: what the purpose was. And I think it's kind of 173 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: a case of revisionist history. Uh. It sounds like his 174 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: parents were very encouraging of his work because I'm sure 175 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: they saw it as a potential career. Um. And he 176 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: says in that same interview with the Idler that his 177 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: father um eventually built does he call it a key shed? 178 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: I think behind the end where he could put his 179 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: his big work on display. And of course then his 180 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: work continued to grow and growing. Lenny describes the little 181 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: girls about his age, you know, teenage girls coming to 182 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: to see the see his work for the first time 183 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: and leaving some coins behind and starting to get that idea, 184 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: oh wait, maybe I can make money. Yeah, that's where 185 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: he got his idea for a museum. Well, and as 186 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: you were mentioning too, with other accounts you see of this. 187 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: I mean, some are saying it was a direct marketing strategy, 188 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: that his parents were like, come and see the inn 189 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: where we have have a pint animal check out of 190 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: the death of cock Robin. Yeah, exactly, But others are 191 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: more like, oh, it kind of happened accidentally. I can 192 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: I can see it either way. I mean we were 193 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: saying earlier, I think I would go slightly out of 194 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: my way to visit an inn or a pub that 195 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: had these strange scenes, especially since they were pretty trendy 196 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: at the time, or just you know, you happen upon them. 197 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with marketing the pub. So eventually, 198 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: UM in eighteen sixty six he moved his workshop to 199 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: a new spot because the stable loft was not containing 200 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: his situation anymore, and then again in eighteen eighty he 201 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: moved into a specially built building which eventually became his museum. 202 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: And that museum wasn't only for his work. He also 203 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: collected curiosities from other places UM including like a lot 204 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: of it was natural history type items like horns and teeth. 205 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: There were skulls, and he had some human artifacts like 206 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: his shoes and jewelry. Uh, just sort of a random 207 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: collection hodgepodge of things. This part of the story reminded 208 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: me so much of P. T. Barnum's story and the 209 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: the era before him of of natural history museums, I guess, 210 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: the birth of natural history museums and going from these 211 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: collections curios, just a strange hodgepodge of things, some valuable, 212 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: some just old teeth or horns or what not, all 213 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: brought together, and and the fad for for seeing those 214 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, I mean, people were very fascinated 215 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: by this idea of just looking at things from other 216 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: people's lives or other animals that they maybe hadn't been 217 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: exposed to in their natural, day to day life. Um. 218 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: That it was, as you said, like this was really 219 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: when the idea of the natural history museum was starting 220 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: to kind of boom and grow and um, the Natural 221 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: History Museum and the freak Show Museum, and it was 222 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: all kind of very different. People were looking for entertainment 223 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: in a variety of ways at the same time. Um. 224 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: And he did start taking on work as um a taxidermist, 225 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: like on demand for people like he would preserve their 226 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: pets for them. UM. It was very starting to get 227 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:58,079 Speaker 1: very popular for people to keep mounted animals in their parlors. UM. 228 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: Some would be like their personal family pet, but some 229 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: also collected like exotic birds. Apparently, UM, Queen Victoria had 230 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: some exotic birds, which is the thing I had not 231 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: known until we were digging in on research for this. UM. 232 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: So he would do all of that, but really he 233 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: always wanted to continue creating these tableau And a question 234 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: that always comes up whenever you're talking about Walter Potter 235 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: with people is where was he getting these animals? Does 236 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: he starts seeing tableau with twenty kittens and them will 237 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: cross your mind? Yeah. So apparently he mentioned in that 238 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: that interview that I scited earlier that people would bring 239 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: him what they thought were interesting specimens. But he also 240 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: kind of had a deal going on with local farmers. 241 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: And this is where our modern pet loving brain has 242 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: to kind of close down and be put aside for 243 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: a little while, because I have a hard time with 244 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: this being like a crazy animal person. UM. You know, 245 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: on farms, they don't with span neuter their pets and 246 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: cats are there to work, they're there to keep vermin 247 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: at bay. But because they are animals that have not 248 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: been fixed, they are having lots of babies, and often 249 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: way more than really can be sustained by what the 250 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: rodent population on the farm is, so farmers would bring 251 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: him unwanted kittens. I have not really found a clear 252 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: indicator as to whether they were already deceased when they 253 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: got to Mr Potter or if he took care of 254 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: that um. But I do know, like I said, I 255 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: grew up with some farm family background. For you know, 256 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: people that grow up in that, it's often not and 257 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: especially at this period of time, it wasn't like you 258 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: went to the vet and had animals euthanized. You kind 259 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: of learned to do the dirty work and make the 260 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: hard decision of taking care of situations like that. Well, 261 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: and and the history of the animals seemed to become 262 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: kind of an issue too in the nineteen seventies, with 263 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: the museum and visitors concerned that it was cruelty to animals, 264 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: so much so that museum had to put up a 265 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: little placard saying, for one thing, these are over a 266 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: hundred years old, and also don't worry, no animals were 267 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: specifically killed for the project, which they know if they 268 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: would have been done away with one way or the other. 269 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: This way, they just went on to become part of art. 270 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: Still though troubling it is. I mean, I, as I said, 271 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: I have to kind of put away my my animal 272 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: loving brain for a moment and just think about, you know, 273 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: the time period and how animals. You know, we're seeing 274 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: more as livestock at that point. It wasn't like their 275 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: cuddly pet. It was they were working creatures. But also 276 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: people would bring him, um, unfortunate specimens that had maybe 277 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: not lived very long because they were not healthy. Maybe 278 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: once more in line with my two headed snake to 279 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: experience um we mentioned earlier. You can find all manner 280 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: of images of these things if you look, and some 281 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: of them, some of the more malformed ones there. It's 282 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: like the kitten with eight legs and two tails, which 283 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: is what it's called. It's very basic, um kitten with 284 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: eight legs and yeah, kitten with eight legs and two tails. 285 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: There's one that has There are a couple who have 286 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: like two faces. There are um, you know, there's so 287 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: he did those kind of out of fascination, and I 288 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: think he was probably studying anatomy at the same time, 289 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, what I mean, it was giving him some 290 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: clues into how the differences between right and wrong create 291 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: the structure properly. But then he was also doing really 292 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: artistic works like the Village School, which is a bunch 293 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: of tiny bunnies with little chalkboards and they have little desks, 294 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: and he would craft all of their accessories as well, 295 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: so they're tiny little lesson books. All of that was handmade. Um. 296 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: The Guinea Pigs cricket match, that one has always cracked 297 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: me up. There is a full Guinea pig band with 298 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: brass multi piece. Yeah. There they are full and ready 299 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: to play orchestral pieces. There's a pavilion and then there 300 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: are the guinea pigs who are getting ready for their 301 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: cricket match. And another thing to point out about these 302 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: tableau two is they all have these beautifully soft painted 303 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: background which seemed so striking against the by this point 304 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: kind of dusty Victorian animals. Um, but they add to 305 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: that nursery rhyme fairytale quality was trying to go for. 306 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: For sure. There's one really odd one that is a 307 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: When we first started talking about doing this episode, I 308 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: was like, Sarah, you have to see this picture, and 309 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: it's a monkey riding a goat, and I don't know why. 310 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: Every time I look at it it makes me kind 311 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: of chuckle because the expression of the monkey's face is funny. 312 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: The whole setup is funny. The proportion of it is 313 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: just perfectly hilarious. That one seemed so reminiscent of Barnum 314 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: to me because you know, and you can give this 315 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: to Potter too, who was not trying to um pull 316 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: one over on his audience. It was, you know, this 317 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: is a this is a kitten who was born with 318 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: two heads or whatnot. He wasn't trying to create creatures 319 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: that didn't exist. He was riding in the goat. Was nature? 320 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: Just a strange decision to combine two animals into into 321 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: one scene like this, and then the big one that um, 322 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: I think for people that are fans of his work, 323 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: and it is very striking. There's one called The Kitten's Wedding, 324 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: and it is a full wedding party comprised of kittens 325 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: in full gown, elaborate dresses and jewelry and little suits. 326 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating and bizarre and there's a grotesque element 327 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: to it, but it's also one of those things where 328 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: I can't help but think like about the hours of meticulous, 329 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: exacting labor that goes into something like this. I mean, 330 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: he made teeny tiny austin just to put on each 331 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: of them, and they're all quaffed like their hair is 332 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: done there. It's it's really quite fascinating to think about 333 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: how much just he must have been in love with 334 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: his art, because he really did seem to just dedicate 335 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: his heart and soul to it. It's easy to focus 336 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: solely on the mounts though, and and not look at 337 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: not look at the kittens dresses, but look at their face. 338 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: Looks quite right, you know. I think, um probably the 339 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: goal of many taxidermists today. And we've heard from we 340 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: have listeners to who have written in to tell us 341 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: about their work. Um, tell us that it's not stuffing, 342 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: it's mounting. UM. I think maybe of the modern goal 343 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: of taxidermy is to look as though the animal wants alive, 344 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: to have the idea of capturing a natural moment, a 345 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: living quality about them. And you certainly cannot say that 346 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: about Potter's work. And I don't think that was the goal, 347 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: but his taxidermy skills wouldn't have allowed that anyway. I 348 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: mean the kittens don't have they don't look like they 349 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: were ever alive. No, they look like dolls. They really 350 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: do have a doll like quality by the time he 351 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: has done humanizing them, you know, antropomorphizing them with outfits 352 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: and accessories and just concepts that they would not be 353 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 1: put into. Like you know, very few kittens get invited 354 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: to weddings in my experience, but so m once in 355 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: a while it happens. Um. But yeah, it's not it's 356 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: not trying to capture that moment of the animal in 357 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: the wild. Some of his um malformed creatures are more 358 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: intended to look like their life like state. Um. But 359 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: these ones, once he gets into tableau, it's really about 360 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: creating something entirely new. Some of the life like quality, 361 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: or lack thereof two comes from his skill mounting to 362 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: I mean, things didn't always go quite as land, especially 363 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: for more exotic animals. Yeah, because he didn't have practice. 364 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: He didn't get to practice with them. He got pretty 365 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: good at kittens and apparently was very good with birds. 366 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: But there is allegedly a baby giraffe that he attempted 367 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: that I could never find a photo for that just 368 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: didn't come out quite right, um, and then the lion 369 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: that looks like it's wearing saggy pantyhose because his the 370 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: skin on the legs. You know, it's with any anyone 371 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: who's been around a cat, you know that the skin 372 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: has some flexibility. But he didn't quite get where it is. Yeah, 373 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: it looks and just the stance of the lion too. 374 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: It's one of those where Okay, maybe he didn't ever 375 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: see a living lion. Maybe he didn't have that opportunity 376 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: because the lion doesn't stand quite like that. Yeah, it 377 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 1: looks just off. I mean, you can recognize it as 378 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: a lion. There is a certain you know, it's a lion, 379 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: so there's a certain natural majesty to it. But you 380 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: just something's not quite right. And that reminds me of 381 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: of old engravings of descript you know, explorers who have 382 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: described animals and then they're illustrated by engravers back in Europe, 383 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: and these are African animals or North American animals, and 384 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: the illustrator has never seen them, and they're trying to 385 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: imagine what the animal looks like. Yeah, it's just not 386 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: quite right. A plus effort um, and he continued to 387 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: mount his entire life, and then in nineteen fourteen he 388 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: suffered a stroke and he never really fully recovered. And 389 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: he was I believe seventy nine at the time, so 390 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't like he was struck down as a very 391 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: young man. Um But then in nineteen eighteen he passed 392 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: away and he had spent his whole life there in Sussex. 393 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: Basically he was buried in the village churchyard um and 394 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: his museum was left to his daughter, Minnie Collins and 395 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: his grandson alternate also named Walter, but his last was 396 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: Collins Uh and they were the curators of the museum 397 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: until the nineteen seventies and they basically got to a 398 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 1: point where, you know, they just couldn't handle it anymore. 399 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: It was too much work. I mean, that's a lot 400 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: to keep going, and so um it got moved first 401 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: to Arundel and then in the nineteen eighties it went 402 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: to the Jamaica Inn in Cornwall. There was a moment 403 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: in the middle where it was almost going to be 404 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: shipped off to America because I think that first stopping 405 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: point also didn't quite know what to do with it 406 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: and didn't have the resources to keep it in good 407 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: condition and then the Jamaica in stepped in and said 408 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: no, no no, we will take it. So those people hung 409 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: onto it until two thousand three and they decided to 410 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: liquidate the collection because their curator had died or had 411 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: retired rather i'm sorry, and their taxidermists had passed away. 412 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: He had leukemia, and they who had maintained all of 413 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: these fascinates too. And and it's like to thousand specimens 414 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: by that point. And it would be a lot of 415 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: work too. It's not something that you can just put 416 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: in a case and then forgot about. No, it needs 417 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: constant care and maintenance, especially you know as it gets older, 418 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: it is more and more work. You sent me a 419 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: video from the nineteen sixties where there's a man who 420 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: is tending to some of the specimens, I think to 421 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: a cow in one of the pictures, which is he 422 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: didn't preserve a life size cow, it's a it with 423 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: cap skin. But the curator is carefully dusting and cleaning 424 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: and then returns the cow to the tableau. It would 425 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: be a tremendous amount of work. And also I can 426 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: see why the museums would be facing problems in this 427 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: time too, because this is kind of kitchy. At this point. 428 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: It was very popular in the Victorian era to go 429 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: look at mounted animals and they found it quite charming. 430 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: There was a growing um sense of unrest at it, 431 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: like there wasn't the same Oh that's magical and charming. 432 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: It was they saw more of the grotesque than the 433 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: charm at that kind of the cob And like we 434 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, the questions about wait a minute, is this 435 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: humane or not? They were all killed a hundred years ago. Yeah, 436 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: certain changing tastes played a role in this. Yeah. So, 437 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: and it was a Mr. And Mrs Watts that owned 438 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: the collection at this point. So in two thousand three 439 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: they decided that they would sell the collection, and they 440 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: were hoping that someone would buy the whole thing in 441 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: one shot and maintain the museum, because even though it 442 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: had shifted and was not in the original museum, they 443 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: still considered it the museum um And unfortunately that did 444 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: not happen. I mean, there were many attempts made. There 445 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: was even a landowner nearby that was offering a parcel 446 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: for free and saying, you can build a new museum 447 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: here if you can keep the collection together. But they 448 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: still needed capital to do all of that, and it 449 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: never came through, and it it's pretty interesting did numbers 450 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: when you look at the prices some of these pieces fetched. 451 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: And then we'll come back to sort of some other 452 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: things that developed or came to light after the fact. 453 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: There was a little bit of scandal, and there were, 454 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: as I said, there were lots of people trying to 455 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: get together the money to put this thing, to keep 456 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: it together and to buy the whole collection outright, but 457 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: they just never there was never enough and so eventually, 458 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: for example the death and burial of Cock Robin, the 459 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: original estimate for what I was going to go for 460 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: was ten thousand dollars, and I think it actually went 461 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: four twenty five hundred British pounds, which is about thirty 462 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: three thousand dollars US at the time of the sale. 463 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 1: And that was the high high mark for for the works, 464 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: but a lot of them Kitten's Wedding actually it was 465 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: a little bit more. A little more, Yeah, that was 466 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: thirty five thousand dollars, but a lot of them were 467 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: pulling in in the in the twenties. UM eleven thousand, 468 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: ten thousand, Monkey Monkey Riding a Goat brought in eleven thousand, 469 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: six hundred dollars, which I think is a bargain, But 470 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: I mean there really were even though this is years 471 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: and years later. I mean this is in the two thousand's, 472 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: there were enough people that knew about his work that 473 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: were very excited to go. And you can read some 474 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: accounts online of people that were like, Okay, I have 475 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm throwing out a random number, like ten 476 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. I'm gonna get whatever I can because I 477 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: really want a piece of Walter Potter's legacy. Okay. So 478 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: the crazy thing is, though, even though these works went 479 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: for way more than expected and ultimately pulled in around 480 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: five nine thousand, nine hundred pounds, which is you said, 481 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: was twice what they had predicted, the scandal came because 482 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: there had apparently been an offer to keep the collection together, 483 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: and that offer had been for way more than that 484 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: collective price a million pounds, right, and that was from 485 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: an artist, a British artist named Damien Hurst. Uh, and 486 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: he really wanted it. I mean, he's a fan of 487 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: Walter Potter, he knew about his work. He's best known 488 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: to by the way, for the shark Suspended tank. When 489 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: it came to light that he had actually made an 490 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: offer to Bottoms, which was the auction house that handled 491 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: the sale. The Watts were actually really upset because they 492 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: had never been informed of this offer. As of two 493 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: thousand seven, they were threatening to sue Bottom's for not 494 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: accepting that offer and for not informing them, because they 495 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: were supposed to have notified them if they received any 496 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: serious offer to keep the collection intact, and let alone 497 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: one that was is so high above what actually Yeah, 498 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: so they were planning to sue both for monetary damages 499 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: for half a million pounds. But also they really did. 500 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: I mean, these are people that actually tended this collection 501 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: for years. It's not like they just were trying to 502 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: turn it and make a buck. You know. They clearly 503 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: cared about it and wanted it to go in one 504 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: big set, not piecemeal. It ended up in different lots 505 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: and which is I'm sure heartbreaking to people that had 506 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: tended to it very lovingly for you know, decades at 507 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: that point. So as it stands, Mr Watts has taken 508 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: it to court and he said, we have tried to 509 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: discuss this amicably, but with no joy. They leave us 510 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: with no option to but to pursue our complaint in 511 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 1: the Court, so that seems to be ongoing. It was 512 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: no recent update on it, Yeah, I didn't see one, 513 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: but there is a different recent update there is, and 514 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: the collection is coming together again, although well it did 515 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: briefly UM in twenty ten um Damien Hurst again and 516 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: he did buy some of the lots. Was basically kind 517 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: of using his connections in the art world to try 518 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: to put this together in the Museum of Everything, which 519 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: is a pop up museum in Primrose Hill in London, 520 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: which I apparently used to be a Victoria It was 521 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: a dairy and Victorian era and then it became a 522 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: recording studio get acoustics, and then it was at least 523 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: for this time, a pop up museum space. And so 524 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: he actually did get together a lot of the pieces, 525 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: even some that had been sold to collectors overseas. I 526 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: know there were some pieces that were here in the 527 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: US that were being shipped over for the collection. And 528 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: it ran until the end of at least I don't 529 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: know if any portion of it continued UM as an exhibit, 530 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: but I have a feeling this is probably not the 531 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: last time we will see people try to put this together, 532 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: because it's odd how lovingly people look at this collection 533 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: and there's just something about it that it it makes 534 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: you want to like pull for it to all come 535 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: back together. It does, I mean, I was it's interesting 536 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: to look at these and it is such a i 537 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: don't know, a strange slice of Victorian life, but the 538 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: fascination that people have with it, even though this is 539 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: clearly not in style today, it is interesting. And that 540 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: there are these people who are investing great deals of 541 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: money in it too, to try to reunite these pieces 542 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: and bring them all back together. Yeah, it's I mean 543 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: when you read accounts of people that were trying to 544 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: save it during the two thousand three auction, I mean 545 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: there's really like a sense a tone of just dismay 546 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: and heart heart break that it's, you know, a pity 547 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: they think it's a national treasure. Why isn't you know, 548 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: some big institution stepping in and making sure that this 549 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, full color action museum doesn't get preserved as 550 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: it is. And I wonder to how much of that 551 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: comes into nostalgia too, If if this museum was a 552 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: favorite place for generations of kids to visit, you know, 553 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: through through the seventies certainly, but beyond too, and the 554 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: Watts were maintaining it. Um just like I would be 555 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: sad if the capital finally put away their two headed snake. 556 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: Don't let me know if you work there and it's 557 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: gone now. UM I wonder if if people feel that 558 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: way too, that this is something um strangely British and 559 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: and worth maintaining and celebrating. It's also there's such a 560 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: sweetness to the story that it was just basically a 561 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: simple kid in the country who had a love for 562 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: a thing and that was the only thing he really 563 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: did his whole life. I mean, he married, he had 564 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: several children, but it was his life's work, was his museum, 565 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: in his taxidermy, and you know, mounting animals in new 566 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: and creative and artistic ways that no one had ever 567 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: thought to do before. There's just you want to cheer 568 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: for those people, so you know, you want to maintain 569 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: what's left of their work when they're gone, and that 570 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: he did have success in his life too, even if 571 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: the collection is now going through hard times being split up. 572 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: But um, I thought one of the most interesting points 573 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: was that at one point the museum was so popular 574 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: that they had to extend the railway platform in town 575 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: to accommodate the people that were just visitors coming coming 576 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: out to visit, coming to see a kitten wedding. They 577 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: got an invite to the kitten wedding. They brought their gifts, 578 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: they're ready to be fabulous guests and have a good time. 579 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: So hopefully we'll see more stories about the Potter collection, 580 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: and I would love to see it myself at some point. 581 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: That's like one of my bucket list items is to 582 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: see at least some decent chunks of the Potter call. 583 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: It sounds like kitten wedding is possibly in the States too, 584 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: if if because Damien Hurst had had trouble getting to 585 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: the collection, they mentioned it was somewhere, but I don't 586 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: know if it's in a in a private collection in 587 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: somebody's house. This story made me sort of more interested 588 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: too in just the history of taxidermy too, and um, 589 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: you know how it got to this extremely decorative point 590 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 1: in the late Victorian era, but it's earlier roots too. 591 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: And and also I couldn't help but thinking of the 592 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: health issues to working with the chemicals. I mean, he 593 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: lives to a rifled age. It obviously doesn't seem to 594 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,919 Speaker 1: have affected his health, but arsenic there's a lot of 595 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: a lot of sludge and gross chemicals that are not 596 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: kind to the the body. Um. Yeah, and it's funny 597 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: too because we love these things so much. But I 598 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: the idea of preserving a beloved pet has certainly fallen 599 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: out of favor. I mean, I know there are people 600 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: that still do it from time to time, but they're 601 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: definitely outliers of like the pet parents and community. I 602 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: know fewer people. I don't know any personally. I don't 603 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: think that's done that, um, but I know people do it. 604 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: So it is kind of a it's an interesting lens 605 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: that we can kind of flare out where we really 606 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: love this, but we would be a little creeped out 607 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: by our own you know, animals being part of something 608 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: like that. Well, in that game preservation is still a 609 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: totally mainstream Yeah. Suit, I'm suddenly having a flash to 610 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: the Field Museum in Chicago. Have you ever been a 611 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: huge taxidermy collection? I have not. I thought of the 612 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: Biltmore House, the h in there, the Gentleman's Room essentially, Uh, 613 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: there is a huge collection of of games. Yeah, if 614 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: anyone is in Chicago or is visiting Chicago, go to 615 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: the Field and I mean, it's it blows you away 616 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: just how many specimens they have on display. They even 617 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: have the Ghost in the Darkness, the lions that were 618 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: murderous um that there was a movie about them there 619 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: on display there. I mean, it's just walking through Museum Hall, 620 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: aftrom Museum Hall of Mounted Animals. It's kind of fascinating. 621 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure we're going to hear from our I hope. 622 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: I bet they can give us all manner of insights 623 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: that you don't always get when you're doing regular research. 624 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: There are things that you learn from the inside of 625 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: any trade that you would not normally learn when you're 626 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: reading about it or studying about it. So I look 627 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: forward to those Pay so much for joining us on 628 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive, 629 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: if you heard an email address or a Facebook U 630 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: r L or something similar over the course of the show, 631 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: that could be obsolete. Now. Our current email address is 632 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: History Podcast at I heart radio dot com. Our old 633 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: health stuff works email address no longer works, and you 634 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: can find us all over social media at missed in History. 635 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: And you can subsitu gribe to our show on Apple podcasts, 636 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: Google Podcasts, the I heart Radio app, and wherever else 637 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. 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