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Speaker 1: Days for seven days at the Home Depot now through

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 3: And the price.

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Speaker 4: You leave someone out of the past, we can enter

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Speaker 4: and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 1: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 1: is not through with us.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back to the next picture show A movie the

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Speaker 5: Week podcast devoted to a classic film on the way

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Speaker 5: it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tasha

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Speaker 5: Robinson here again.

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Speaker 6: With Genevieve Koski and Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 5: Keith Phipps is in a lab somewhere where slicing his

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Speaker 5: DNA into a couple other things We're pretty sure good

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Speaker 5: things will come of it. It'll all be fine. If

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Speaker 5: nothing else, we'll probably make a profit. In our last episode,

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Speaker 5: we discussed Aliens, James Cameron's game changing Alien sequel, which

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Speaker 5: turned Ridley Scott's memorable space horror movie into a bonifid

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Speaker 5: cultural phenomenon, the kind of every generation gets its own

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Speaker 5: installment franchise that just keeps on space truck in, although

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Speaker 5: it seems to evolve a less and less with every

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Speaker 5: new iteration. Case in point Fadie Alvarez is Alien Romulus,

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Speaker 5: which goes back to basics with a new crew of

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Speaker 5: hapless space miners working for Heartless Company, this time led

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Speaker 5: by Priscilla and Civil War co star Kaylee Spainey as Rain,

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Speaker 5: a miner hoping to escape indentured servitude an industry, and

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Speaker 5: Rye Lane's David Johnson as Andy, the refurbished but faltering

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Speaker 5: android her father left behind to take care of her.

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Speaker 5: Rain and some friends leave their stormy mind planet to

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Speaker 5: visit a decrepit space station for some cryo fluid they

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Speaker 5: need to survive. I have the nine year trip to

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Speaker 5: a better world, but on the way they run into

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Speaker 5: everybody's favorite genital themed xenomorphs for some face hugging, chest bursting, acid,

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Speaker 5: blood melting, spaceship decks action, plus some literal quotes from

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Speaker 5: past alien movies to go with the visual and narrative quotes.

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Speaker 5: We'll get into it all after this break.

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Speaker 2: Should be in and out in thirty minutes. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the Rocky Blue Space Station.

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Speaker 6: Bacecis me the creeps?

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Speaker 2: What the head is is?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 7: The four was that?

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Speaker 5: Yuh?

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Speaker 6: Stop playing around man to get I'm not playing.

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Speaker 2: Around the cun in the wall?

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Speaker 6: What do you mean?

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Speaker 2: There's something I don't know. It's just something in a.

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Speaker 5: So I just want to say up front as far

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Speaker 5: as this alien Romulus conversation goes, there are some things

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Speaker 5: in this movie that the studio does not want you

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Speaker 5: to know going in, and I don't think that we're

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Speaker 5: going to dodge around them.

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Speaker 2: So if you haven't seen the movie.

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Speaker 5: Plan to and want to go in unspoiled, if you

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Speaker 5: haven't read anything about it, this should probably be your

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Speaker 5: your jumping off point, because the central element in this movie,

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Speaker 5: honestly is something that we could dance around and make

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Speaker 5: reference to. I strongly suspect that Adam and Josh found

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Speaker 5: a way to discuss it without just jumping in with

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Speaker 5: both feet. But I think we're going to jump in

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Speaker 5: with both feet. Be warned, Giant giants spoiler running. So y'all,

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Speaker 5: what the hell?

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Speaker 4: Really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Really, that's that's that's the prompt. What even the hell

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Speaker 5: with this movie?

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Speaker 6: You're you're I think, Tasha, I gather you are a

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Speaker 6: lot more offended by Rook then I is that what

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Speaker 6: you are absolutely hated?

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Speaker 5: Every single time Deep Fake Ian Home is on screen,

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Speaker 5: I found it endlessly distracting. I found it just like

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Speaker 5: technologically like like ugly and badly managed and unconvincing. You know,

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Speaker 5: they scanned a bunch of Van Home in an Alien

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Speaker 5: and reproduced him as a digital character who he's so squashed.

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Speaker 5: I kept thinking of, you know, the first Beetlejuice, when

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Speaker 5: Alec Baldwin and Geen Davis are sitting in the waiting

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Speaker 5: room and there's the guy with the shrunken head. That

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Speaker 5: is what digital Ian Holme reminded me of at all times.

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Speaker 5: He just he's got a pasted on, deep fake look

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Speaker 5: to him. But for me, this whole movie is kind

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Speaker 5: of deep fake Ian Home. You know, it's there are

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Speaker 5: so many things here taken from previous alien movies and

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Speaker 5: just like kind of mixed and matched and quoted right

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Speaker 5: up to the point of having a character say get

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Speaker 5: away from her, you bitch, in a way that feels

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Speaker 5: out of character and unmotivated and out of nowhere. But

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Speaker 5: it's a line we all know and recognize, so it's cool, right, Like,

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Speaker 5: there were places in this movie that I found effective

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Speaker 5: and tense, and I kind of cared about the characters,

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Speaker 5: and I felt sad when we were introduced to a

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Speaker 5: bunch of people that I was immediately like, none of

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Speaker 5: you were going to survive the movie.

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Speaker 4: Man, I just really really not going to survive the movie,

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Speaker 4: aren't they like the way they're indooced. It's like, Wow,

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Speaker 4: there is not enough care for us, for you, any

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Speaker 4: of you to survive this.

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Speaker 5: Not enough sense of any of them as people. They're

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Speaker 5: cannon fodder in a way that the alien's characters aren't,

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Speaker 5: even though there were more of them, and just they're

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Speaker 5: I don't know, I'm gonna get not really mowed down

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Speaker 5: by cannons per se. But anyway, my point is I

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Speaker 5: consider this whole thing kind of a whip stitched together

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Speaker 5: abomination that I enjoyed in the moment and hated almost

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Speaker 5: the second I was at the door. Scott, I think

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Speaker 5: you're more positive on this than I am. I'm curious

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Speaker 5: about that.

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Speaker 2: I'm very curious what you have thought.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so I will say that I share your opinion

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Speaker 4: about it not being a way homer of being a

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Speaker 4: film that does that shrinks upon reflection. It is much

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Speaker 4: more effective than the moment, but it is effective in

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Speaker 4: the moment. I think, for the most part. My chief

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Speaker 4: disappointment with it, you know, beyond the ethics, I think

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Speaker 4: of the Ian Holme deep fake, you know, which is

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Speaker 4: also I think, as you say, a little technically hinky,

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Speaker 4: though I think intriguing, and it's and in the actual

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Speaker 4: what actually plays out in the drama, So I have

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Speaker 4: a lot of different feelings about that character. What bothers

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Speaker 4: me a little bit about Alien Romulus is that that

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Speaker 4: what had what had set apart the Alien movies to

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Speaker 4: the point, at least the first those first what FA four,

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Speaker 4: I guess or five or whatever is that is that

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Speaker 4: they're very director driven and distinctive and you know, trying

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Speaker 4: for something. I mean, you know, even Alien three, for

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Speaker 4: all whatever flaws that it has, it's a David Fincher

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Speaker 4: film and it's going for something. And Alien Resurrection incredibly flawed,

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Speaker 4: very much as Jean Pierre Janet film anyway, And what

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Speaker 4: was frustrating to me about this movie it was the

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Speaker 4: first one that felt like that had a fan servicey

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Speaker 4: aspect to it at all, you know, and it comes

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Speaker 4: from more than just being an interval where you're trying

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Speaker 4: to squeeze this movie in between Alien and Aliens. It

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Speaker 4: comes from a much more you know, a commercial calculation

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Speaker 4: and an impulse to serve the movies that had come before.

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Speaker 4: And I just feel like, to me, that's really disappointing

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Speaker 4: because I am a fan of Fade Alvarez. For the

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Speaker 4: most part, I think he's got a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 4: technical talent that does show up here. I think, I

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Speaker 4: think it is an exciting ride of a film for

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Speaker 4: the most part, but I was disappointed by how by

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Speaker 4: its lack of originality, in its lack of personal vision,

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Speaker 4: for sure, and it didn't make a whole lot of sense.

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Speaker 6: Part two, it's at heart, or I think like it's

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Speaker 6: visions such as it is is homage. You can call

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Speaker 6: it an imaginativeness, or you can call it homage. You know,

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Speaker 6: if you're feeling more appreciative of it, which I was

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Speaker 6: for the most part in the moment while sharing the

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Speaker 6: opinion of the execution of the ian Holm deep Fake,

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Speaker 6: it was distracting. I am not as strongly opposed to it,

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Speaker 6: I think as you are, Tasha, just on like a

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Speaker 6: storytelling level, because I am thinking of it and sort

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Speaker 6: of this under the umbrella of homage to the franchise

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Speaker 6: as a whole. And I think if you can ignore

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Speaker 6: all the sort of like outside noise about like Disney

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Speaker 6: owning twentieth century Fox now and like you know, Disney

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Speaker 6: wanting to like have their stay up on the Alien

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Speaker 6: franchise and being able to do their Disney thing with it,

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Speaker 6: and of course the external ickiness of reviving Ian Holme

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Speaker 6: from the dead and all that. Like, I think in

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Speaker 6: the moment, I was in you know, I was even

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Speaker 6: sort of in for the getaway from her line if

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Speaker 6: they hadn't just crossed it, Like I wish they had

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Speaker 6: stopped it get away from her, like we would have

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Speaker 6: gotten it. You don't have to add that, you bitch,

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Speaker 6: It doesn't make any sense for that character to be

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Speaker 6: saying it. And like, there are definitely moments of that

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Speaker 6: that I think crossed the line, but for the most

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Speaker 6: part I was in it. I was locked into it

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Speaker 6: in the moment. I think, like Albarez's stamp to the

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Speaker 6: extent there is one here is he really loves the

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Speaker 6: acid blood. I think like there's a lot of cool

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Speaker 6: stuff with the acid blood here that we haven't necessarily

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Speaker 6: gotten in this way before. I'm particularly thinking of the

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Speaker 6: zero G acid blood sequence, which was kind of the

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Speaker 6: standout of the film to me. And also I'll just

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Speaker 6: like be upfront that I do not know this lore

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Speaker 6: as well as you know, maybe you guys do, or

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Speaker 6: a lot of people listening to to this. I have

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Speaker 6: not seen Resurrection and I have not seen Covenant, and

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Speaker 6: so both of which I gather are sort of being

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Speaker 6: heavily referenced in the last ten minutes or so of

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Speaker 6: this movie. So I did not have sort of the

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Speaker 6: background going into that of exactly what this new evolution

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Speaker 6: we get is all about. I could kind of like

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Speaker 6: infer it a little bit, but so like in the

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Speaker 6: moment that to me felt like new and disgusting, and

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Speaker 6: I hated it, but I was also like engaged with it.

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Speaker 6: So I don't know, mixed feelings about this movie. I'm

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Speaker 6: certainly like not a fan, but I didn't like I

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Speaker 6: don't feel offended by it.

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Speaker 5: I guess I found myself wondering if this is meant

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Speaker 5: a little more as a generation's first alien movie rather

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Speaker 5: than you know, it's obviously made by a fan, It's

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Speaker 5: made by somebody who deeply loves this lore, in this

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Speaker 5: imagery and these quotes, and like these individual characters and

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Speaker 5: ideas and like individual shots, individual sequences, like there's just

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Speaker 5: there's so much being borrowed from here. To me, the

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Speaker 5: whole thing feels like a smoothie, you know. It feels

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Speaker 5: like just a whole bunch of stuff smoothie if you've

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Speaker 5: if you've never had fresh fruit, a smoothie is.

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Speaker 2: Amazing.

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Speaker 5: But if if you have, then you've got you know,

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Speaker 5: these are two different things that are related to each other,

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Speaker 5: but just very different textures and colors and experiences.

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Speaker 4: You're saying, you're saying that the first couple of films

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Speaker 4: are like a deconstructed smoothie like fruit.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that is what I'm saying. I am saying that

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Speaker 5: Alien is a strawberry and Aliens is a banana, and

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Speaker 5: Alien three is I don't know, soy milk uh something

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Speaker 5: along that line.

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Speaker 6: There's kale, Prometheus is kale.

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Speaker 2: God Prometheus is kale. That's gone bad.

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Speaker 4: But come on now, let's not.

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Speaker 3: Let's not.

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Speaker 4: That's not what Prometheus.

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Speaker 5: Prometheus says. Prometheus has some great elements.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a deeply flawed movie.

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Speaker 5: So that's a completely We haven't had a good throwdown

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Speaker 5: in a while, Scout.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think I'm quite I don't quite have

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Speaker 4: the ammunition to do Prometheus breakdown here, but I'm a fan.

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Speaker 5: Also arguing about Prometheus at at length here in this

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Speaker 5: podcast is just like our own version of an ant

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Speaker 5: Koll where we're just kind of trying to force another conversation.

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Speaker 2: In between two conversations we're trying to have.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, I mean, it just it feels it

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Speaker 5: feels like slurry. To me, it feels like alien slurry.

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Speaker 5: It just it feels like a whole it kind of

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Speaker 5: like slurm. Slurm is supposedly delicious.

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Speaker 4: Slurry does not sound.

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Speaker 2: But that's what That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: Like, if this is if this is your first exposure

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Speaker 5: to these images, to these ideas, like I could see

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Speaker 5: finding this all very effective. Like I think the tension

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Speaker 5: is well managed. I think the characters are about halfway

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Speaker 5: too interesting, and they're serviceable for a kind of standard

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Speaker 5: modern horror movie. It's just to me, if you've watched

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Speaker 5: all of the movies that he's slurmifying for this film,

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Speaker 5: you've seen the better version of all of the things

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Speaker 5: that he's trying to do. I'm sorry Dane Ben did

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Speaker 5: not like the Zero G Acid Reilly Conceptually maybe, but

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Speaker 5: in practice. First of all, just the physics make no

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Speaker 5: sense whatsoever. Second of all, it's it's all CG. It's

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Speaker 5: just a giant blob of moving CG on CG on

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Speaker 5: CG stuff, And I think where this movie does fall

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Speaker 5: back on practical effects, it's just so much more effective.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I think, you know, we're in an era

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Speaker 6: of CG, and I think if you're making an alien

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Speaker 6: movie today, I think it's admirable to do something interesting

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Speaker 6: with CG. So I guess I agree that it couldn't

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Speaker 6: be done practically, nor would I want to see it

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Speaker 6: be done practically, But I guess I'm past the point

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Speaker 6: of mourning practical effects and modern action movies. So, like,

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Speaker 6: you know, just through that lens, I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 6: that's a cool twist on that's a cool modern, updated

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Speaker 6: twist on something from this that I know from this franchise.

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Speaker 5: I will say, I'm not, you know, religious about practical

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Speaker 5: effects are always better or anything like that. I don't

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Speaker 5: have a problem with CG, but bad CG can just

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Speaker 5: be can be as distracting as bad physical effects. And

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Speaker 5: in this particular case, I think the physical effects being

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Speaker 5: used are more effective and believable that that's very much

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Speaker 5: a case by case basis as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, when you're seeing that at the acid floating around

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Speaker 4: you're like, oh, that's computer doing computer stuff. You know

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Speaker 4: you don't, And I think this is a series that

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Speaker 4: you do, uh relate to it and in such a

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Speaker 4: physical and physical and visceral way.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 4: The creature design and and in the practical effects that

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Speaker 4: are utilized, and particularly the earlier films they uh they

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Speaker 4: leave an impression on you that that I don't think

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Speaker 4: c G I can replace. But Yeah, at the same time,

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Speaker 4: Alien Romulus is uh, you can drink through a straw

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Speaker 4: that you can drink it through a straw where you're

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Speaker 4: refreshing and uh and uh and if it's too thick,

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Speaker 4: you can eat with a spoon. The other the other

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Speaker 4: thing is one thing I will say in its favor

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Speaker 4: is that I think it really gets off to a

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Speaker 4: strong start. I liked being reminded of what the future

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Speaker 4: looks might look like, you know, working on a terraformed

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Speaker 4: planet and and how what that might be like because

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Speaker 4: because what we have your tech visionaries, uh currently who

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Speaker 4: will who will present you with ideas this idea of

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Speaker 4: you know, starting a society on Mars, for example, But

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Speaker 4: what is that going to look like? You know, what's

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Speaker 4: the good of what's that environment going to be like

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Speaker 4: I mean, in this case, it's a sunless environment. It's

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Speaker 4: it looks absolutely dark and brutal, and all of you,

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Speaker 4: in your entire life is controlled by the company. There's

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Speaker 4: nothing organic about this environment. Is your survival is entirely

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Speaker 4: in the hands of the company that controls this planet

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Speaker 4: and has terraformed it and is employing you, and then

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Speaker 4: in Rain's case, has the ability to put you into

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Speaker 4: indentured servitude. So I did kind of think that was

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Speaker 4: a really good place for this series to start. Even

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Speaker 4: if it is kind of winking to the first film,

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Speaker 4: it does kind of give us that reminder that we

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Speaker 4: need of of of what the future of space travel

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Speaker 4: and space colonization actually looks like and how it's maybe

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Speaker 4: not something we should be looking forward to.

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Speaker 5: I thought the whole Indian servitude thing with Rain was

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Speaker 5: one of the more interesting elements of the film because

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Speaker 5: it's something I haven't seen expressly in other spaces, particularly

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Speaker 5: the idea of the company can just arbitrarily say, well,

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Speaker 5: you know, we're raising your quotas you're now indentured to

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Speaker 5: us for twice as long we don't have to explain anything,

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Speaker 5: where we can do whatever we want. I think is

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Speaker 5: a good way to up the ante on the soulist

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Speaker 5: corporations control your lives theme that runs throughout this franchise.

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Speaker 5: I also, as far as those kind of opening sequences

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Speaker 5: on the planet, I thought the best and most memorable

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Speaker 5: thing in this movie was the relationship between Rain and Andy.

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Speaker 5: I think they both do an excellent job of portraying it.

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Speaker 5: But I also just think that that relationship the idea

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Speaker 5: that this android is something that her father fished out

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Speaker 5: of trash. Heap repro rammed to protect her and take

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Speaker 5: care of her. But now that she's an adult, he's

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Speaker 5: a legacy that she can't let go. She thinks of

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Speaker 5: him as her brother. He's also, you know, kind of

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Speaker 5: the last remaining part of her father for her. She's

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Speaker 5: kind of become the older sister in the relationship since

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Speaker 5: he's a machine that's that's malfunctioning and breaking down, But

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Speaker 5: she can't let go of him, even when she the

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Speaker 5: place that she wants to go that represents freedom doesn't

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Speaker 5: take androids. So there's just there's a feeling that he's

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Speaker 5: like an anchor weighinger down like all the complex threads

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Speaker 5: of like love and resentment and loyalty there, I think

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Speaker 5: are both well done and just very science fiction. You know,

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Speaker 5: there are ideas in there that you can sort of

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Speaker 5: get to that are metaphors for real human relationships, but

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Speaker 5: there are also aspects of it that you can only

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Speaker 5: get to in a science fiction story, you know, literalizing

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Speaker 5: some of the bonds and obligations of familial relationships, I

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Speaker 5: think in a really clever way. I wish the movie

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Speaker 5: did more or with that. You know, it kind of

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Speaker 5: establishes it all and then loses a lot of it,

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Speaker 5: kind of just in the thread of you know, these

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Speaker 5: two people who are important to each other, but we

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Speaker 5: don't need it to be more nuanced than that.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I think it gains nuance from the introduction

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Speaker 6: of Rook Slash slash Ash, which you know, I'm not

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Speaker 6: gonna sit here and claim that like it needed to

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Speaker 6: be Ash's face specifically to add that nuance, but I think,

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Speaker 6: you know, in adding this other and having these two

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Speaker 6: synthetics and they're sort of there in this idea of

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Speaker 6: like competing in different prime directives and having them interacting

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Speaker 6: and Brook slash Ash kind of pushing against Andy and

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Speaker 6: manipulating him, it adds another layer not only to the

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Speaker 6: relationship between Andy and Rain, but also just to our

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Speaker 6: understanding of you know, synthetics in this this world, you know,

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Speaker 6: as we talked about in the first half, is you know,

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Speaker 6: kind of one of the most fluid parts of this franchise.

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Speaker 6: So I think Andy was just overall my favorite part

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Speaker 6: of this movie. I like David Johnson a lot as

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Speaker 6: an actor, and I think he does a really interesting

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Speaker 6: performance here that you know, requires him to do a

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Speaker 6: lot of different things and switch between it in a

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Speaker 6: way that I think he handles really well. But you know,

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Speaker 6: in defense of the decision to bring ash Slash Rook

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Speaker 6: back into the picture, I think it does add something

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Speaker 6: to the Andy character at the very least.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I just think it's someplace you could have gotten

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Speaker 5: to without the deep fig maybe.

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Speaker 4: So I'm in completely agreement with Johnavieve on that the

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Speaker 4: Andy character, of his relationship with Rain, the way he

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Speaker 4: changes when he is on board and exposed to Brook

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Speaker 4: slash Ash definitely the most compelling part of the movie.

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Speaker 4: And you know, and though this is a synthetic, is

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Speaker 4: a human aspect of the movie, and I think that's

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Speaker 4: when you can have you know, more character driven things

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Speaker 4: as we've we've seen and maybe we'll talk about more

390
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Speaker 4: with with aliens, that brings all of the that raises

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Speaker 4: the stakes and brings the action part of it to

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Speaker 4: life a little bit. And you know, and I think

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Speaker 4: Andy's actions on board when his directive starts to change,

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Speaker 4: does as much to raise the tension as you know,

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Speaker 4: anything that that Alvarez and company are able to do,

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Speaker 4: you know, with the aliens and with the effects. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you need both of those things to kind of interact,

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Speaker 4: and I think it I think it really works works well,

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Speaker 4: you know, despite my misgivings, I think really with the

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Speaker 4: third act of this film being I think just kind

401
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Speaker 4: of confusing and kind of a mess, because I think

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Speaker 4: I think there's a lot there are some aspects of

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Speaker 4: this film that I really did enjoy quite a bit.

404
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Speaker 5: Yeah, A lot of people in the kind of like

405
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Speaker 5: critic circles that we we operate in, have complained about

406
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Speaker 5: the visual incoherence of the third act, which I don't know,

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Speaker 5: I didn't find it that hard to follow visually. I

408
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Speaker 5: feel like maybe there are a couple more shots than

409
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Speaker 5: we needed that complicate sort of the very obvious, like

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Speaker 5: you know, person goes here, person does this person comes

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Speaker 5: back kind of kind of aspect of it, but I

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Speaker 5: don't know. I didn't have that much trouble of following it.

413
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Speaker 5: But I was also kind of disengaged by that point

414
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Speaker 5: because at that point we were well into this movie

415
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Speaker 5: is doing things the Alien franchise has done before and

416
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Speaker 5: not necessarily better. Although I will say the creature effects

417
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Speaker 5: are effective. At least we're effective for me, they certainly

418
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Speaker 5: got me.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that final hybrid creature was rough for me to

420
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Speaker 6: look at, and a certain jump scare involving it was

421
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Speaker 6: definitely the toughest moment of the movie for me. But

422
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Speaker 6: it does and it comes in the midst of that

423
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Speaker 6: sort of visually incoherent part you're talking about, which is

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Speaker 6: sort of the blow it out the airlock sequence, which

425
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Speaker 6: I did struggle with like mapping exactly how like what

426
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Speaker 6: was happening in the moment, but discussing it afterwards like

427
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Speaker 6: figured it out pretty quickly, and it comes back to

428
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Speaker 6: the acid blood, you know, And I do kind of like,

429
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Speaker 6: or I appreciate Slash respect that there is like a

430
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Speaker 6: different twist to that blow it out the airlock moment

431
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Speaker 6: with the sort of like accidental venting that happens first

432
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Speaker 6: with again the acid blood moment, which is sort of

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Speaker 6: the Algori's signature. I guess on this film.

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Speaker 5: I feel like there are more things that I kind

435
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Speaker 5: of want to dig into in this film in terms

436
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Speaker 5: of things that just seem like like big, if not

437
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 5: plot holes, at least plot question marks that don't add

438
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 5: up for me. But I don't know. This movie is

439
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 5: just so much comprised of the things that went into

440
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 5: the blender. I don't think there's anything left that wouldn't

441
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 5: maybe just benefit more from being discussed in conversation with aliens, or.

442
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 6: Anything in this movie going to benefit from being compared

443
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 6: to aliens. Is this going to be a trap to

444
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 6: m comparison?

445
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 5: There might be a possibility that it's a trap. Am

446
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 5: I wrong here?

447
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: Is there?

448
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 5: Is there anything further to say about alien Romulus on

449
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 5: its own?

450
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: No?

451
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, then we're going to take a break and

452
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 5: we will We'll be right back to dig into connections. Hi.

453
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 8: I'm John Ray, your friend and jeweler at Shame Company

454
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 8: getting engaged, So friends, listen up. Shame Company engagement rings

455
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 8: are protected with our all inclusive, free lifetime warranty. We

456
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 8: stand behind the same quality we've offered since nineteen twenty nine.

457
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 8: Our rings are crafted to last. It's why our warranty

458
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 8: is the only one that protects your center stone. We

459
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 8: also cover repairs, resizings, cleanings, and so much more. That's

460
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 8: money you keep for you and your family because a

461
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 8: friend always has your back. Shame company, your friend and jeweler.

462
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 2: Hi, do you see it?

463
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 7: Who's hung on us? Right?

464
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 5: New plant?

465
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: Can you manage yourself with a gun?

466
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 7: Yes?

467
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 2: I can?

468
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 7: Alright?

469
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 9: This is an F forty four, a post rifle. It's

470
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 9: rotating breach electronic post actions where the colonial Marines used

471
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 9: a stands for aiming assisted. So right, you put that

472
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 9: under your arm, all.

473
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: Right, listen to.

474
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 7: Aim it towards Andy to the trigger halfway. I'm want

475
00:26:51,160 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 7: his safety song see aiming assistance. The thing comes to ards.

476
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 7: You play it in with their action. You'll live a miss.

477
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 3: Where'd you learn all this?

478
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 7: It came some magazines.

479
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 5: Now it's time for connections, when we bring these two

480
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 5: films together and talk about all the things they have

481
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 5: in common. You know, when you're basically taken most of

482
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 5: the elements of your story from a previous movie, end

483
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 5: up with a lot of things in common.

484
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: Where do we want to start.

485
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 4: Maybe start with the Corporation and how it expresses itself

486
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 4: in both of these movies we had talked about, you know,

487
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 4: like I said at the beginning of this episode, I

488
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 4: did like the beginning of the film. I did like

489
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 4: the way that it establishes what this corporation is like

490
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 4: in a way that feels kind of modern as well

491
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 4: in terms of the discussions that we're having about, you know,

492
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: what the fantasy of, you know, moving the movie out

493
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 4: of our cursed planet and on some other planet, and

494
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 4: who might be in control of such a place, and

495
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 4: what that might be like. All of that is you know,

496
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 4: you know. And then and then of course the the

497
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 4: interests of the corporation, the interest of of how to

498
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: deal with the with the with the xenomorphs and what

499
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 4: is to be done with them. That brings us into

500
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 4: alien Romulus as well. So that's that's I mean, that's

501
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 4: an interesting aspect of it. And though I don't think

502
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 4: you really have I think really with the ian Holm character,

503
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 4: I think is more the Burke connection, right, I mean,

504
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 4: like he's sort of representing that point of view, right,

505
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 4: I mean, is he's the Burke character, So this is

506
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: synthetic if we're going to get do any kind of

507
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 4: one to one comparison here sort of.

508
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 5: Although I think what makes Burke interesting as a character

509
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 5: is that he's he's one person. He has profit in mind,

510
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 5: but it's personal profit, whereas Brooke and Ash and kind

511
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 5: of like the android representation of the company in general,

512
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 5: there's no personal aspect to it. There's no personal gain involved.

513
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 5: It's simply the will of the company is paramount. And

514
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 5: I think once you start heading into that idea of

515
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 5: like corporations are people and should have the rights of

516
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 5: people area, you're in a scarier sci fi setting than

517
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 5: when you're just talking about like one greed head that's

518
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 5: willing to sell other people out and screw them over

519
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 5: for money. I think Burke is interesting because he's so

520
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 5: venal and so small and so petty and so easily squished.

521
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 5: You know, when Hudson is up in his face saying

522
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 5: like your dog, meat man, it's just very clear that

523
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 5: he has no defense against you know, a space marine

524
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 5: with a pointy stick.

525
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: If it came to that.

526
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 5: But the will of the company is that you die

527
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 5: so that it may profit, is much more of a

528
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 5: threat along the line of the alien species itself. You know,

529
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 5: there's just that feeling of the implacable, faceless devourer. The

530
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 5: aliens are just to keep sending drones at you. They

531
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 5: don't care how many they have to waste, because it's

532
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 5: just about consuming everything that there is in purpose of

533
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 5: self growth.

534
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:10,719
Speaker 2: You know.

535
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 5: It's the two things are a mirror and a metaphor

536
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 5: for each other.

537
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 6: This might be heresy to say, but I kind of

538
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 6: found myself feeling that maybe this corporation has gotten a

539
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 6: little too evil but at this point, or just like

540
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 6: too obviously and uninterestingly evil. I was not quite as

541
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 6: enamored of those opening scenes on Jackson's Star the name

542
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 6: of the colony in Romulus, just because it felt a

543
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 6: little pat to me, like, yeah, Whalen Utani's gonna do

544
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 6: what Whalen Utani is gonna do? You know, like it

545
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 6: just in Aliens. You know he talked about Last Week,

546
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 6: which again I saw first before Aliens, so I didn't

547
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 6: have the the full context of the company that that

548
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 6: movie laid the groundwork work for. But having Burke as

549
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 6: the representative for the company, especially at the beginning, you know,

550
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 6: there is sort of this like suggestion of you know,

551
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 6: like they're looking out for her best interests, you know,

552
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 6: and that that falls away pretty quickly, but you know,

553
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 6: there's a little more element, a slight more element of

554
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 6: surprise again looking at aliens in a vacuum without the

555
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 6: context of alien or you know, there's just like a

556
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 6: little more development of the company's evilness, I guess, and

557
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 6: it's in Romulus. It's all just like out there, you know,

558
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 6: on the surface, and you know, you could argue that's

559
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 6: just where we are in this franchise, Like you're not

560
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 6: going to surprise anyone, you know, with revealing this about

561
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 6: the corporation. But I think like at this point, I'd

562
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 6: like to see that evilness complicated somehow or like give

563
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 6: us a different view on it that like not makes

564
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 6: not makes it sympathy exactly, but at least like provides

565
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 6: a different angle on what they're doing than just power

566
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 6: and letting people die for the sake of more power.

567
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 6: Like it's just it. I need a little more. And

568
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 6: I think like the Prometheus was like kind of maybe

569
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 6: getting there, but I don't have a strong enough memory

570
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 6: of it, and I didn't see Covenant, so I know

571
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 6: there's probably a lot more lore to the company there

572
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 6: that I'm missing slash forgetting. But just like comparing these

573
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 6: two movies on their own, it just felt a lot

574
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 6: flatter in Romulus than in Aliens.

575
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 5: I guess it depends on whether you're thinking about the

576
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 5: corporation as the entity that tells Rain like, no, you

577
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 5: still work for us, because we have decided that you

578
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 5: still work for us even though you fulfilled your end

579
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 5: of the bargain, or you're thinking of the company as

580
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 5: the dead people in space who are researching the alien.

581
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 5: Because one of those things, it's sort of the intercol

582
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 5: problem is you know, yeah, we're not iterating on them,

583
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 5: we're not getting more sophisticated or more nuanced, because we're

584
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 5: all that we're circling back to an earlier point in

585
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 5: the story. But the integried servitude thing I found interesting

586
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 5: just because there's a bureaucrats in Brazil and Terry Gilliam's

587
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 5: Brazil aspect to that whole thing where you know, just

588
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 5: like everything is is grubby, everyone is indifferent. They're all

589
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 5: functionaries and cogs, and there's just there's no appeal when

590
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 5: when the authority has complete and utter power over you,

591
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 5: they have no reason to care about your humanity, and

592
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 5: that particular expression of that struck me as like maybe

593
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 5: a little.

594
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: Bit more than we've gotten previously.

595
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 5: But no, I'm with you. I would not more mind

596
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 5: like more nuanced or different expressions of this idea that

597
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 5: we can keep iterating on that's basically just kind of

598
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 5: an eternal corporation.

599
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: Is bad guy.

600
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 5: I One of the things that makes me weariest, I

601
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 5: guess about the Alien franchise at this point is the

602
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,959
Speaker 5: inevitability that no matter how many times the alien bus

603
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 5: out runs amok, whale and Buttani is still gonna say, yeah, yeah,

604
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 5: but you know, if we could just catch one.

605
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, what's the if Godzilla is the atomic bomb? What

606
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 6: what are xenomorphs? Like, what's the what's the weaponry metaphor there?

607
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 5: I mean, biological warfare is certainly the costact it.

608
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.

609
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 5: Probably that tracks, although there is also just the you know,

610
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 5: the corporate arrogance of let's introduce bunnies to Australia. They'll, uh,

611
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 5: you know, they'll fix the ecological problems we were having.

612
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 5: And you know, every time some well meaning person has said, like,

613
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 5: let's fix the problem that we're having with crops in

614
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 5: this area by introducing a species that doesn't belong there,

615
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 5: there couldn't possibly be any complicated repercussions from that.

616
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 2: Spoiler. It pretty much always goes badly.

617
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 5: One sort of aspect of the whole corp thing that

618
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 5: I think leads into another connection. Like I said, I

619
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 5: feel like the corporation and it's rapaciousness, and it's unchangingness,

620
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 5: and it's inability to see its own failure. It's just

621
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 5: desire to eat everything and turn everything into more of itself.

622
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: Like I think that.

623
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 5: Mirrors the aliens. But at the same time, we have

624
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 5: kind of a different parallel metaphor, which is we're constantly

625
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 5: looking at like blue collar workers in the alien franchise.

626
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 5: In this environment, you know, it's work in class grunts

627
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 5: in aliens. It's miners here and elsewhere in the alien franchise.

628
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 5: But the idea of kind of wage slave drones versus

629
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 5: hive drones, it seems like there's a slightly thin line

630
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 5: in between them, particularly when it comes to we're just

631
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 5: going to keep pumping bodies at this problem until we've

632
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 5: fixed it. On both sides with the problem that you know,

633
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 5: there there are aspects of the alien franchise that it's

634
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 5: almost like a zombie movie. The more bodies we throw

635
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 5: at this problem and the more people die, the bigger

636
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 5: their side gets. And it's that's an equation that we

637
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 5: can't balance in our own direction.

638
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 4: I mean, I think one of the one of the

639
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 4: things I was thinking about, and this is true of

640
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 4: the very first alien is is there's almost like the

641
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 4: Starship Troopers, the element of it of just like, if

642
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 4: we just do nothing, we're not going to have any

643
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 4: problems with these aliens. They're just in this planet. They're

644
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 4: on this planet. You know that that in the first

645
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 4: film there they are required that you know this, this

646
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 4: crew is required by program to visit because there's some

647
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: form of life that they have that they're you know,

648
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 4: have to investigate if they come across. But ultimately, you know,

649
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 4: as you were saying, Tasha, you're throwing bodies at a

650
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 4: problem that you're really just creating yourself by by arousing

651
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 4: this this this this planet that could be well, well,

652
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: let just let alone.

653
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's kind of a classic Cubra story. We're going

654
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 5: to keep trying to control this thing that can't be controlled,

655
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 5: and we're never going to learn from our mistakes and

656
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 5: it's because profit, Like I don't know, that's that's all

657
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 5: a very relatable metaphor as far as I'm concerned.

658
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 6: Can I get a little clarification on something that I

659
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 6: didn't quite get in Romulus, which is where did all

660
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 6: the face huggers come from? Like, because there's no eggs

661
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 6: that I recall seeing, but we do have that opening, uh,

662
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 6: sequence of them bringing the zenomorph in from from space

663
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 6: is the implication that, like they have created all of

664
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 6: these face huggers out from DNA.

665
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 5: I think that is one of a great many things,

666
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: like exactly how they get to that stage starting with

667
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 5: a kind of a space rock that I think is

668
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 5: heavily implied to be the first alien, the alien from

669
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 5: the movie Alien recovered from from space.

670
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think they say that at one point, like

671
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 6: it survived in space and they brought it in. So

672
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 6: that's why I was wondering if like they somehow generated

673
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,720
Speaker 6: the face huggers from the DNA of that alien.

674
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 5: I mean, exactly what the process is I don't think

675
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 5: is communicated. I mean that aspect of.

676
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 6: It, Yeah, I mean I think it's like not important.

677
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 6: I think it's well, it's worth bringing up in the

678
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 6: spirit of this connection because like if they have gone

679
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 6: so far as to actually create these these creatures that

680
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 6: before they just kind of like accidentally brought on board,

681
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 6: like that's like just taking it to a whole level

682
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 6: of hubris.

683
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: You know.

684
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 4: Well there they were going to create a theme park

685
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 4: thatfficlt over Jeff objections, life found.

686
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 5: A way and they were you know, people just started

687
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 5: deciding that actual aliens weren't scary enough, so they had

688
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 5: to you know, build a bigger, better, scarier, sharkating alien.

689
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 6: Yeah.

690
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: I don't know.

691
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 5: I think that this is a like bringing up this

692
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,959
Speaker 5: question is kind of a good place to talk about

693
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 5: one of the things that I had pegged as a

694
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 5: connection to discuss, which is I think both aliens and

695
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 5: alien romulus leave a bunch of stuff open for you

696
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 5: to fill in the blanks yourself. You know, there's just

697
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 5: there's there's areas where they're like, yeah, you can, you

698
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 5: can figure that out.

699
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 2: We don't have to spell that out.

700
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 5: One of the more intriguing ones I think in aliens

701
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 5: is we don't really get a bigger picture, Like we

702
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 5: don't know where these space marines have come from. We

703
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 5: don't know if they've ever encountered aliens before they make

704
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 5: reference to, you know, a bug hunt versus a stand

705
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 5: up fight, which suggests that maybe they've never encountered actual aliens.

706
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 5: Before they joke about she's a lady that says she

707
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 5: saw an alien once. But then there's that weird reference

708
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 5: to arcturins, and you get the idea that the Marines

709
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 5: are both sexually adventurous, horny, bored, and like to joke

710
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 5: about these things. But you don't really have any context

711
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 5: for what arcturins are or what sex with them means.

712
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 5: There's just there's a lot of holes that you don't

713
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 5: have to fill in, but you can if you want to.

714
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 5: There's sort of like space for your imagination and for fiction.

715
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 5: And then I look at that, and then I look

716
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 5: at the holes in alien romulus where we're like left

717
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 5: to fill in things for ourselves, and I'm like, these

718
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 5: questions just leave me with like fundamental senses that I

719
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 5: don't understand this world, Like I don't understand where Rain's

720
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 5: friends get a spaceship and fuel capable of taking them

721
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 5: to space, Like I feel like just a couple of

722
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 5: lines about how you know they took like a discarded

723
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 5: near orbit mining craft and rebuilt it or scavenged or

724
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 5: stole the fuel or whatever, would have given me a

725
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 5: much better idea of like who these people are and

726
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 5: just what they're capable of, like why they're smart. And

727
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 5: instead we just sort of get the impression that I

728
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 5: don't know, there are just spaceships lying around. I understand

729
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 5: that they can't go, you know, to other planets where

730
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 5: they'll be safe, because it's too far away. The distances

731
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 5: are too far, so maybe the corporation thinks it's not

732
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,959
Speaker 5: worth restricting fuel, but I don't know. In most scarcity

733
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 5: prone environments in fiction, fuel is one of the more

734
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 5: expensive things to produce. I just I guess I just

735
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 5: don't understand what the what the economy is here, what

736
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 5: we're saying about these these people are what they do

737
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 5: and don't have access to And maybe it's a weird

738
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 5: thing to get tripped up on, but I just I

739
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 5: find that kind of thing pretty distracting and maybe just

740
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 5: so easily addressed with so little effort that it becomes

741
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 5: a little frustrating.

742
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 6: And I mean Romulus is capable of doing that sort

743
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 6: of easy like explanations slash lamp shading and thinking of

744
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 6: the moment where Tyler shows Rain how to use the gun,

745
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 6: and again a very very clear callback to Ripley and

746
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 6: Hicks an alien. But what's sort of like the added

747
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 6: wrinkled her being like, how do you know how to

748
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 6: use this gun? Or you know, basically like asking what

749
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 6: we are all kind of asking in that moment, and

750
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 6: him being like, basically video games is I think is

751
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 6: the answer, which is, you know, cute enough. And I

752
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 6: think as far as what you're saying about the spaceship Tasha,

753
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 6: like we could have just use like a little little

754
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 6: bit more about Navarro, who is not a minor, she's

755
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 6: a pilot. We don't know what that means in this economy,

756
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 6: as you point out, but you know, I think we

757
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 6: are to assume that this ship is hers and is

758
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 6: somehow involved in her role in this society. And I

759
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 6: feel like, just you know, one line could have given

760
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 6: us all the information we need to be able to

761
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 6: fill in the blanks a little more like you're talking about.

762
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 6: But if it was there, I didn't get it.

763
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just I think in all movies, they's just

764
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 5: such a fun line between missing information that provides intrigue

765
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 5: and curiosity and a space for imagination and missing information

766
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 5: that just kind of makes you go, We'll wait, how

767
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 5: does this all add up? And for me, this particular

768
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 5: thing crosses the line into this doesn't add up.

769
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 4: Right, that's exactly that's exactly right. You know, we talked

770
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 4: about film in the books. I didn't I never felt

771
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 4: with Aliens like that something was missing or not thought

772
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 4: about or not thought through enough. And that's that matters

773
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 4: so much in terms of your ability to connect to

774
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 4: a movie. You know, because as much as I appreciate

775
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 4: Alvarez's style, I think he's actually he's just a very sound, effective,

776
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: technical filmmaker. You know, he didn't he doesn't ask the

777
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 4: questions that needed to be asked of this world to

778
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 4: make it make sense. And you know, and I think

779
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 4: particularly once you get to the I mean you're talking

780
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 4: about stuff that's happening earlier in the film. I mean,

781
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 4: by by the end of the film, I'm pretty confused.

782
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 4: And I don't remember. It's been two weeks since I've

783
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 4: seen Ilian Romney List, and I don't remember it terribly well.

784
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 4: And I think there's a reason for that. I think

785
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 4: it's a I think there's a certain point where you

786
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 4: just become detached because too much has been left blank

787
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 4: in a bad way, in a way that that suggests

788
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 4: not enough thought has been given and not enough effort

789
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 4: has been given to make the connections necessary, the connection

790
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 4: with the audience this you know that it's necessary to

791
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 4: tell it, tell the story effectively.

792
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 6: I mean again, I think Romulus in particular is relying,

793
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 6: maybe over relying on knowledge and appreciation it assumes viewers

794
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 6: have for this franchise and its entirety, which again I

795
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 6: bring up the final hybrid creature thing, which is, you know,

796
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 6: one of the elements of the third Act that I

797
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 6: struggled with, not just for its grossness, just on a

798
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 6: like what is happening here?

799
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 4: Level?

800
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 6: What is the black what is the black good? Why

801
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 6: did it make it happen in that way? And reading

802
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 6: about it afterwards it was like, oh, okay, like the

803
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 6: black goo is from Prometheus and Engineers and also Resurrection

804
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 6: and the Newborn, and it's all kind of like, you know,

805
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 6: it's all like a hybrid of it, you know, its

806
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 6: own cool. I experienced none of that in the moment

807
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 6: because I only had Slash recalled some of that context.

808
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 6: So you know, that's sort of the downside of homage.

809
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 6: Slash fan service is that if you can't easily recall

810
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 6: that information, you are maybe not able to fill in

811
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 6: the blanks. The movie is assuming that you can fill

812
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 6: in based on the information it's giving you.

813
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 4: I just think it's unfair, and this is again a

814
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 4: complaint to have so much of the way franchises are

815
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 4: handled now. I think it's unfair to make that assumption

816
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 4: of viewers. I mean, I've seen all of the Aliens

817
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 4: Alien movies, but I don't remember a lot of these details,

818
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 4: you know, I didn't just see them all yesterday. I

819
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 4: don't want to do like a full rewatch the moment

820
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 4: before I step into a theater. And I think it's

821
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,479
Speaker 4: the responsibility of a movie like Alien Romulus to really

822
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 4: work on its own terms, to be that movie like

823
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 4: when you saw, you know, the original Aliens, and I

824
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 4: saw the Original Aliens without having seen Alien and not

825
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 4: feel like you're missing too much that you have. There

826
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 4: are references that are being thrown out there that you're

827
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 4: not getting, you know. It's kind of a bummer down

828
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 4: cod to be confused as much as you are during

829
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 4: Alien Romulus. It's not necessary.

830
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, it kind of takes us back to

831
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 5: that place of talking about. I mean, both of these

832
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 5: movies are iterating on the original Alien. Both of these

833
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 5: movies are developing from a pretty like bare bones in

834
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 5: one specific place with one specific group of people kind

835
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 5: of story and trying to extrapolate it out to other

836
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 5: places and other experiences and a bigger.

837
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 2: Wider universe.

838
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 5: But I don't know, Cameron just stands so much on

839
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 5: his own feet. He brings so much new to the

840
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 5: franchise that wasn't there before, and it all kind of

841
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 5: feels seamless. It all feels like it belongs there once

842
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 5: it is there again. I don't find myself asking, like Arcturrens,

843
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 5: there weren't any Arcturrens in the first movie, or there

844
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 5: weren't any space marines whatever, Whereas with uh with Alien Romulus,

845
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 5: I just find myself thinking, like, what did he bring

846
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 5: to this that's new? Besides I flying c G I

847
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 5: liquid essentially like, there are a lot of really cool

848
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,439
Speaker 5: images in this but they all kind of harken back

849
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 5: to things that we've we've seen earlier.

850
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 2: You know, we're we're.

851
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 5: Back to some very very vaginal eggsacs and some very

852
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 5: phallic alien heads. You have anything this movie like, lean's

853
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 5: really even harder on the Giger of it, all.

854
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 4: The very very high high numbers and the on the

855
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 4: Giger counter.

856
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 6: I'm trying to remember how much has there been like

857
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 6: much zero g stuff in previous alien films. Am I

858
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 6: forgetting something very obvious here?

859
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: I think that's just I think that's an alien anything

860
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 2: that stands out to me.

861
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 4: The other thing is that I think this movie has

862
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 4: a self homage in it, because there's a there's there's

863
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 4: a don't breathe see once, Yeah, in Aliens where it's

864
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 4: like these aliens, you don't you kind of want to

865
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 4: be there, you know, you don't want to make any

866
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 4: noises or cause any problems to moving through this space.

867
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 4: And it was it was kind of amazing that as

868
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 4: much as Alvarez is devotes himself to alien aliens in

869
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 4: the franchise at large, that he finds room for himself

870
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 4: in the too. Tip has had at fade a Alvarez

871
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 4: in the middle of his movie in quite effective fashion.

872
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 4: But I did. I actually laughed out loud during that

873
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 4: moment when I was like, Oh, okay, they're doing don't

874
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 4: breathe for a little bit here.

875
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, I brought up the zero G thing just kind

876
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 6: of in terms of like this connection and thinking like

877
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 6: how these films are iterating on things we've seen before,

878
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 6: specifically in Alien, which you know, this is kind of

879
00:49:54,920 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 6: taking us back to a ship bound haunted house setting,

880
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 6: and I mean Aliens is not not a haunted house,

881
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 6: but you know, the setting is a little more expansive.

882
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 6: You know, we'rend this this colony. And one of the

883
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 6: things that I just love and appreciate about Aliens is

884
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 6: just the introduction of the atmosphere processing system that I

885
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 6: think is Burks like he said, or like he takes

886
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 6: credit for it, or at least it's the companies, but

887
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 6: just like the simplicity again going back to sort of

888
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 6: the economy of the storytelling here, like just the simplicity

889
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 6: of like, yeah, this is why people can run around

890
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 6: this planet without spacesuits. This is why this setting works

891
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 6: the way it does. I guess I'm just talking about

892
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 6: setting here, evolution of setting. So to take that to Romulus,

893
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 6: sort of the idea of this you know, decrepit space

894
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 6: station where the gravity can come and go at a

895
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 6: moment's notice, is a you know, again sort of an

896
00:50:55,120 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 6: attempt to evolve the setting of alien in a in

897
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 6: a new way.

898
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I suppose, although once again I'm back to I

899
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 5: don't understand how the system.

900
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: Works the way it does.

901
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 6: It doesn't make any sense, just the idea of.

902
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 5: Like the gravity's broken, so there's no gravity, but we've

903
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 5: got a system that's going to arbitrarily turn on gravity

904
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 5: like once in.

905
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 6: Sixty seconds, and it has to include a countdown, because

906
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 6: everything has to include a countdown any It's just like

907
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 6: it gave us a countdown within the other countdown of

908
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 6: you know, ship's total destruction. But then there's also these

909
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 6: little mini countdowns of the gravity coming and going.

910
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 4: Space travels into countdowns. Let's the countdowns are pretty big

911
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 4: part of space. They travel.

912
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 2: The cleverness of Rain.

913
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 5: Realizing that she could just like shoot all of the

914
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 5: aliens during a zero G moment, and like none of

915
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,720
Speaker 5: the acid, none of the acid would be propelled against

916
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 5: the wall of the ship by all of these high

917
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 5: powered bullets whizzing around. I don't know, you can't use

918
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,760
Speaker 5: your guns in here because the interior of a nuclear

919
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 5: reactor doesn't react well to bullets. Like just makes so

920
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 5: much more sense to me, as like movie physics than

921
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 5: a high velocity bullet traveling through something's head isn't gonna

922
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 5: carry any acid, like more than two inches like and

923
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 5: off to the ship's hull that we're trying to not melt.

924
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 5: So I just I didn't think that that sequence made

925
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 5: much sense. And the realization that all of the zero

926
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 5: G stuff that doesn't make sense in the first place

927
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,919
Speaker 5: is just servicing another idea that doesn't actually make much sense.

928
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 6: Also, acid is particulable.

929
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 5: You know, you blow up something full of liquid, then

930
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 5: there's liquid in the air, and you can't just slide

931
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 5: between the liquid. You're gonna be breathing like just immense amounts.

932
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 2: Of particulated acid. No, the whole thing just doesn't work

933
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 2: for me.

934
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 8: Sorry.

935
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 6: Sorry, these are slimy creatures. They have slimy acid and blood.

936
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: Oh it's slimy.

937
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 5: Why didn't anybody tell me it was slimy?

938
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 6: I guess what I appreciate about the acid sequence while

939
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 6: acknowledging that like that is not how it would work

940
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 6: in real life, is that, like it doesn't work perfectly,

941
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 6: like you know, like it works for a minute, but

942
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 6: then the thing that you know was going to happen happens,

943
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 6: you know, in the acid like they're like through stuff.

944
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're like my eyes, the goggles do nothing.

945
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 3: Right.

946
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, my space armor.

947
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 6: Yeah. Like it's a it's a good plan in the moment,

948
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 6: but it it stops being a good plan pretty quickly,

949
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 6: So I guess I could accept its improbability in a

950
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 6: context where it doesn't actually save the day.

951
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 4: I think one of the one of the more important things.

952
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 4: I mean, we talked quite quite a bit about about

953
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 4: this in this episode of the previous one, but the

954
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 4: synthetics and how we're supposed to feel about them are

955
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 4: shifting feelings for them are such a big part of

956
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 4: both of these movies, because you know, and Aliens, you

957
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 4: have Ripley, who had had a very bad experience with

958
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 4: the synthetic in the first Alien, have a much different

959
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 4: relationship with one this time around. And then in Alien

960
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 4: Romulus you have the character of Andy, who is a

961
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 4: companion and who is damaged in an intriguing way, but

962
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 4: then who also kind of changes as his programming and

963
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 4: his directive is manipulated, And I think that's kind of

964
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 4: this is I think one area where this that are

965
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 4: just kind of strengths for both movies where you get

966
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 4: some nuance in the first film, I think you get

967
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 4: some nuance in terms of the reversal of how he

968
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 4: might feel about a synthetic being on board, and the

969
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 4: complexities I guess in the relationship between between him and Ripley,

970
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 4: you know, and then and then the second one. You know,

971
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 4: Andy just is so multi dimensional in terms of how

972
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 4: what he means to Rain and then what his function

973
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 4: is going to be once they're on the ship and uh,

974
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 4: and his priorities and functionality change. So I think that's

975
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 4: it's kind of a kind of a kind of a

976
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 4: plus in both corners, I think in my view.

977
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, one of the things I found so interesting about

978
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 6: the introduction of Andy is this idea that he's damaged,

979
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 6: you know, and that he is vulnerable in this context.

980
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 6: And it's not an exact parallel, but it did make

981
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 6: me think of what we were talking about the introduction

982
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 6: of Bishop and how he nicks his finger during the

983
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 6: knife play, and like that's how it's revealed that he's

984
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 6: an artificial person. But again, it's uh sort of this

985
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 6: moment of vulnerability of humanness almost that introduces us to

986
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 6: the synthetic. You know, they're they're not presented as infallible

987
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 6: or you know, any sort of the scary things that

988
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:24,240
Speaker 6: we associate with artificial intelligence, uh, you know, taking over.

989
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 6: You know, in both cases they're flawed. I guess in

990
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 6: some way or another, they're they're imperfect, And I just

991
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 6: think that that is an interesting twist on how you know,

992
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 6: we are often presented artificial intelligence characters in sci fi.

993
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that Andy ends up being

994
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 5: a really interesting counter example. You know, as I said

995
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 5: in the first half, I feel like the artificial people

996
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 5: in these movies are the places where the filmmakers are

997
00:56:55,040 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 5: most allowed to diverge away from from reproducing what came before,

998
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 5: you know, are most able to kind of like put

999
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 5: their individual stamps on projects, and positing Andy as a

1000
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 5: damaged android places him as like a really interesting counter

1001
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 5: to David in Prometheus an Alien Covenant, you know, Michael

1002
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 5: Fassbender's android character, who's kind of a super genius and

1003
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 5: master manipulator and just you know, more capable than everybody

1004
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 5: around him and has kind of more thought in planning

1005
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 5: than anybody around him. Seeing an android in this case

1006
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 5: as as flawed and struggling and needing a human support

1007
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 5: instead of being the support or the enemy, I think

1008
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 5: it's just an interesting role that we haven't seen before.

1009
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 5: But Walter Chad at film Freak Central Central wrote a

1010
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 5: review of this film that touched on a lot of

1011
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 5: things that I hadn't thought about, and one of them

1012
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,439
Speaker 5: was the fact that Andy's a black character and he's

1013
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 5: portrayed as you know, potentially an early iteration in androids,

1014
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 5: and Walter feels that this might be an indication that,

1015
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 5: like the first generations of androids in this universe, we're

1016
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 5: all black, and with the implications.

1017
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: That that involves.

1018
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 5: I feel like, you know, as a writer and a critic,

1019
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 5: you could make an argument that it's weird and paternalistic

1020
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 5: that our first damaged android who needs human support and

1021
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 5: protection is also our first black android in this setting,

1022
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 5: like that could be seen as problematic. I want to

1023
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 5: say it was, you know, colorblind casting because David Johnson

1024
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 5: is so good in this role, and also because he

1025
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 5: kind of has his flowers for algernon sequence of you know,

1026
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 5: taking on different personalities and going in different directions depending

1027
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 5: on what kind of programming he's listening to. So I

1028
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 5: don't think it's fundamentally a flaw, but I think it's

1029
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 5: something that sort of bears investigating how complicated and nuanced

1030
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 5: this character is, and this character in this setting is

1031
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 5: just compared to kind of everything else around him.

1032
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I definitely had the thought in the moment of like,

1033
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 6: does it mean something that this synthetic is black, you know,

1034
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 6: for the first time in this franchise, especially given in

1035
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 6: Aliens sort of the very prejudiced reaction that Ripley initially

1036
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 6: has to Bishop and how that is sort of coded

1037
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 6: with racism. Obviously not racism against black people specifically, but

1038
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 6: it feels like that is definitely a metaphorical connection you

1039
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 6: could make, which I had thought about while rewatching Aliens

1040
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 6: a few days prior, so it was on my mind

1041
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 6: when Andy showed up. I personally wouldn't necessarily make the

1042
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 6: leap that Walter is to the idea that like all

1043
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 6: the early models were black. That feels like maybe extrapolating

1044
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 6: a little beyond the information that we've been given. But

1045
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 6: I sa certainly like understand the like having that moment

1046
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 6: of like, what does this mean? You know, what is

1047
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 6: something being said here? Or is this just the right

1048
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 6: actor for the role being cast? You know, I don't

1049
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 6: think this movie or this franchise has really proven itself

1050
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 6: interested in examining race in this universe enough that like,

1051
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 6: I think there there is something being said there, but

1052
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 6: it could be.

1053
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 5: I mean, positing a like a non human species as

1054
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 5: interacting with humans and facing some form of prejudice is

1055
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 5: the classic side by way of dealing with bigotry. Something

1056
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 5: I've researched a bunch and written about a bunch in

1057
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 5: different context. But it's a way to make people examine

1058
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 5: prejudice without engaging their own like defensive mechanisms or their

1059
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 5: own well their own prejudices, or their own feelings about

1060
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 5: what society says about people with prejudices. You know, there's

1061
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 5: there's a lot of like knee jerk you know, I'm

1062
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 5: not racist, that has a tendency to block off conversations

1063
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 5: about racism.

1064
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 2: So putting it.

1065
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 5: In the guise of here is here's an alien, here's

1066
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 5: a robot, here's here's an orc. If you're looking at

1067
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 5: you know, Netflix's Misbegotten movie Bright, we treat them differently

1068
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 5: from humans. You know, it is a big way to

1069
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 5: kind of like talk about one of the things that

1070
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 5: America in particular has the hardest I'm discussing. So I

1071
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 5: think that's interesting. I wish I felt that Alien Romulus

1072
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 5: had enough going on in its head to be engaging

1073
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 5: with like any of this in a meaningful way.

1074
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 6: Well, as we both said, I don't think that that

1075
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 6: is that this is necessarily a topic that we're going

1076
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 6: to find an answer to in the text, And unless

1077
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 6: fade A Alvarez has spoken to it, we're not gonna

1078
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 6: find it extra textually either. But before leaving the subject

1079
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 6: of Andy, I do want to talk about his dad

1080
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 6: jokes and sort of him as one of the lone

1081
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 6: sources of humor in an Alien Romulus and compare it

1082
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 6: to the vein of humor that is running through Aliens.

1083
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 6: And I personally found the dad joke thing equal parts

1084
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 6: charming and enervating, but I did like like the explanation

1085
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 6: for it. There was like a there was another layer

1086
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 6: to the jokes. They weren't just there as laugh lines.

1087
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 6: It was an act of love from her dad. It

1088
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 6: was her dad communicating to her through Andy. So even

1089
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,919
Speaker 6: in these bursts of levity that those dad jokes add,

1090
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 6: there is another layer to it, which is kind of

1091
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 6: similar to what we were talking about in Aliens with

1092
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 6: Hudson's catterwauling and then you know, also the other you know,

1093
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 6: sort of humor beats. There is another level of characterization

1094
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 6: going on there. I don't it's nearly as well done

1095
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 6: or as sustained in Romulus as it is in Aliens.

1096
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 6: But sort of like the way these two films handle

1097
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 6: humor and slash laugh lines particularly struck me as kind

1098
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 6: of similar in that way of having this characterization level

1099
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 6: happening below them.

1100
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, I think you have

1101
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 4: the levity of the actual jokes or the or you know,

1102
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 4: Hudson doing huts and things, but it is a humanizing

1103
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 4: you know, you get that nice you want that beat

1104
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 4: in a an intense sort of action horror context. To

1105
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 4: have that the bit of levity always helps. But but

1106
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 4: as you say, you know, these these are also revealing

1107
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 4: of character as well. And in the fact that these

1108
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 4: these are these are pretty uh you know, first level

1109
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 4: dad jokes there, I mean, they're just kind of a

1110
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 4: kind of it kind of reveals the level that Andy

1111
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 4: is at. He's not so he doesn't have the more

1112
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 4: sophisticated well of dad jokes that say, let's say I,

1113
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 4: for example, would draw upon uh, he's got he's got

1114
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 4: he's got just the basics, and I think that that's

1115
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 4: an interesting reveal of character in itself. You on top is,

1116
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 4: as you said, you know, the the relationship that Rain

1117
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 4: has with her late father, So that's a touching aspect

1118
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 4: of the movie.

1119
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really like the dad joke thing, both because

1120
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 5: there was one that made me outright laugh and because

1121
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 5: you know, it's something very distinctive to Alien Romulus, which

1122
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 5: at this point I will take anything that feels like

1123
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 5: it's unique to this movie. But yeah, the layers of

1124
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 5: this is a thing that this android picked up from

1125
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 5: my late dad, So it's a connection to the past.

1126
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 5: But at the same time, it's something he's been doing

1127
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 5: the entire time I've known him, and I'm kind of

1128
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 5: sick of it. But at the same time, he's programmed

1129
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 5: to do it, so he can't help it. And at

1130
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 5: the same time we have a long history together and like,

1131
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 5: at the same time, I'm exasperated by it, like I

1132
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 5: would also miss it if it was gone, Like I

1133
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 5: love all of the nuance to that, and I love

1134
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 5: how much of it goes unsaid, like how much of

1135
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 5: it we can just understand from the interplay between them

1136
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 5: and the understanding that he's been around, says she was

1137
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 5: considerably younger. It's maybe one of the best aspects of

1138
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 5: the relationship. That's one of the best aspects of this movie.

1139
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 5: You know, it's James Cameron's Aliens. I think just runs

1140
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 5: circles around Alien Romulus in a ton of different ways.

1141
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 5: But you know what it's lacking dad jokes? Well, Alien

1142
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 5: Romulus is still in the theaters, so you're gonna have

1143
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 5: to go there if you want to hear these dad jokes.

1144
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 5: You can find a lack of dad jokes, but a

1145
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 5: lot of Hudson catterwauling. If you catch Aliens where it's

1146
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 5: streaming on Max, streaming on Hulu, broadly rentable to digital channels.

1147
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 5: I strongly suspect it's not gonna be all that long

1148
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 5: before Alien Romulus joined it on some of those platforms.

1149
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 5: We'll be right back with your Next Picture Show. Finally,

1150
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 5: it's time to recommend a film or film related item

1151
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 5: that compliments this set of episodes. We call it your

1152
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 5: Next Picture Show in the hopes that will put some

1153
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 5: interesting choices on your radar. Scott, this is a long franchise.

1154
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 5: There are a lot of films that you could recommend

1155
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 5: to us. There's that alien documentary, there's endless alien novels,

1156
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 5: there's alien comic books. What among the many alien related

1157
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 5: like items here are you going to call out from

1158
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 5: the pack and recommend to our listeners?

1159
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 4: How about an unrelated film by an old Spanish filmmaker.

1160
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 4: Does that sound Does that sound good?

1161
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 6: That sounds like an awesome compliment to this such.

1162
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we're just gonna We're just going to

1163
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 4: completely pivot and go towards something, you know that I

1164
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 4: just want to recommend because it's small, and it's from

1165
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 4: a film an important filmmaker, and you know, people should

1166
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 4: really try to make an effort to seek it out.

1167
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 4: It's a film called Close Your Eyes. It's a new

1168
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 4: film by Victor Arise and if you you know Citophiles

1169
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 4: know that name. He because of a film that he

1170
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 4: did fifty one years ago called The Spirit of the Beehive,

1171
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 4: which is considered by many people to be one of

1172
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 4: the greatest, if not the greatest Spanish film ever made.

1173
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 4: It was his debut feature and and it's a film

1174
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 4: that is that takes place and you know, Franco Spain,

1175
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 4: and follows this young girl played by an a torrent

1176
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 4: who lives in this little village and where they show

1177
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 4: Frankenstein and she sort of goes out and starts to

1178
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 4: wander the countryside in search of this monster, this friendly monster,

1179
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 4: and if you've ever seen you know it's mingling of

1180
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 4: mythology and history, massively influential on Giermo del Toro to

1181
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 4: name one person, but any case, not a prolific filmmaker.

1182
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 4: He's only made a couple of films, a few films,

1183
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 4: and this new film, Close Your Eyes is his first

1184
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 4: film in over thirty years, and it appeared at some

1185
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 4: festivals and wowed people and now is finding its way

1186
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,719
Speaker 4: to distribution from Film Movement, which is a very small company.

1187
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 4: So you really want to try to do a little

1188
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 4: research in terms of seeking this one out. Close Your

1189
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 4: Eyes is has a kind of a movie within a

1190
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 4: movie idea, much like the Spirit of the Beehive did here.

1191
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 4: It starts quite cold with the movie within a movie,

1192
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 4: which is this period piece that turns out to have

1193
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:55,480
Speaker 4: been incomplete. The lead actor in this production just simply disappeared.

1194
01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:00,799
Speaker 4: And this was and it completely upended the life of

1195
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 4: the director. Who was this who was this actor's close

1196
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 4: friend and whose career was you know, staked on this,

1197
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 4: on this movie being made, and then in the film

1198
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 4: that dramatically cuts from that period of time, which was

1199
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety into something closer to the present day.

1200
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 4: I think twenty twelve is when the film actually takes

1201
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 4: place and it deals with, you know, a making of

1202
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 4: documentary and an investigation, like of an unsolved mystery styled

1203
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 4: investigation into what happened to this guy and what happened

1204
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 4: to this production, and it leads the director, who's still alive,

1205
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 4: to do some investigating in the past himself. It is hard,

1206
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 4: it's hard to really get into too much detail beyond that,

1207
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 4: but it is a really lovely, you know, long it's

1208
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 4: like one hundred and sixty five minutes or so, but

1209
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 4: very enveloping and beautiful and assured film that will put

1210
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 4: you very much in the mood very much in this,

1211
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 4: you know, it feels very much like the spirit of

1212
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 4: the Beehive. It it has that connection to mythology, to storytelling,

1213
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 4: to filmmaking. It's all very delicately interwoven and really proof

1214
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 4: that this guy still has it, which is just amazing.

1215
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 4: I mean, he's in his eighties now, so I strongly

1216
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 4: recommend it. It's called close your Eyes, and if you've

1217
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 4: seen the Spirit of the Beehive especially, you should really

1218
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 4: seek it out, because you know, he's still he still

1219
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 4: got it.

1220
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 5: I mean to show our hands a little here. We

1221
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 5: did talk about various alien related things here, and Scott

1222
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 5: came in with this idea, and we just decided that

1223
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 5: this was something our listeners were much less likely to.

1224
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,439
Speaker 2: Have seen or heard about.

1225
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 5: And you know, this is just a much much better recommendation.

1226
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 5: So I mean, while we're all saying you should really

1227
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 5: just go out and rewatch Alien three because it's so very,

1228
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 5: very good, I think this was the right recommendation for

1229
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 5: this podcast, and I'm certainly looking forward to to tracking

1230
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 5: it down and seeing it. That's it for this edition

1231
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 5: of the Next Picture Show, but we'll be back next

1232
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 5: week with another set of episodes. Genevieve, would you like

1233
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 5: to tell us about what's coming next?

1234
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 6: Writer director Jeremy Sognier has returned again and again to

1235
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 6: the theme of people yanked into violent confrontations they aren't

1236
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 6: physically or emotionally equipped for, From his cult horror debut

1237
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 6: Murder Party to his progressively bigger breakouts Blue Ruin and

1238
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 6: Green Room to the William Geraldy adaptation Hold the Dark,

1239
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 6: His new Netflix movie rebel Ridge, seems like a departure.

1240
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 6: Its protagonist, a black man named Terry, is a marine

1241
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 6: veteran who seems physically capable of pushing back when he

1242
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 6: enters a small southern town to pay out a cousin

1243
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 6: and a corrupt cadre of local white cops assault him

1244
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 6: and steal his bail money under the pretense of civil

1245
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 6: asset forfeiture, but for reasons that don't become clear until

1246
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:53,680
Speaker 6: late in the movie. Rebel Ridge isn't as much of

1247
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 6: a departure for Sonier as it seems. Still the premise

1248
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,839
Speaker 6: of a military veteran being harassed and abused by bigoted

1249
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 6: live locals in small town America until he turns to

1250
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 6: his military training to turn the tables inevitably reminded us

1251
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 6: of Ted Kochef's nineteen eighty two franchise Launcher First Blood.

1252
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 6: That moody, emotionally driven action movie gave us a very

1253
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 6: different version of Sylvester Stallone's John Rambo than the version

1254
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 6: of the character who turns up in all the sequels,

1255
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 6: and it's one of the movies Sonya drew On for

1256
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 6: Rebel Ridge. In our next pairing, we'll look at what

1257
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 6: these two movies have to say about their respective eras.

1258
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,639
Speaker 5: For now, we welcome your feedback on Aliens and Alien

1259
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 5: Romulus and anything else film related you'd like to talk about.

1260
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 5: Email us at comments Atnext Picture Show dot net or

1261
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 5: lead us a voicemail at seven seven three two three

1262
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 5: four nine seven three zero before we close out this

1263
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 5: week's episode, Where can we find everyone these days? Scott Tobias,

1264
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:45,800
Speaker 5: why don't you tell us both where we can find

1265
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 5: you and where we can find our absent co host,

1266
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 5: Keith Phipps.

1267
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you can find Keith and I at Blue Sky.

1268
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 4: I'm at Scott Tobias and he is at k Phipps

1269
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 4: three thousand. And you can find our work, of course,

1270
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 4: primarily on the newsletter that we write together. That's The

1271
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 4: Reveal The Reveal dot substack dot com. My other freelance

1272
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:12,440
Speaker 4: work is at New York Times, Vulture, Guardian another Fine Publications.

1273
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 4: Keith writes for TV Guide. He writes for Vulture as

1274
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 4: well and GQ and other outlets. Genevieve, how are you?

1275
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 6: I am still the TV editor at Vulture and Will

1276
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 6: be there until the Harry Potters TV series materializes and

1277
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 6: I have to retire, and at which point I will

1278
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 6: only be on Instagram at Genevieve Koski, Tasha.

1279
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 4: We'll miss you.

1280
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 5: I need to figure out what my nope, I'm out

1281
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,839
Speaker 5: line is at Polygon. I am the entertainment editor at Polygon,

1282
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 5: and you can fund my work there. I don't think

1283
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 5: I'm gonna quit over the Harris Potter TV show, but

1284
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,639
Speaker 5: I'm meting there's a line out there for me. We'll

1285
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 5: figure out what it is. I am on Blueskin at

1286
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 5: Tasha Robinson. You can stay updated on The Next Picture

1287
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 5: Show at Next Pictureshow dot net and on blue Sky

1288
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 5: at the Next Picture Show. You can get bonus content

1289
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 5: an open discussion at Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

1290
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 5: As always, we appreciate your ratings and reviews on Apple

1291
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 5: Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to this show.

1292
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 5: Thanks to Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistance in

1293
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,880
Speaker 5: producing this podcast. The Next Picture Show is proud to

1294
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 5: be part of the Film Spotting family of podcasts.

1295
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 2: Please tune in next time