WEBVTT - Ernie Hudson 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:01.960 As I was walking out of the room, I just 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:04.920 just because I didn't know anything about horses and I 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.000 wasn't a dancer, and I had lied, and I just 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.680 didn't want to lie, and so I stopped and I 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.120 turned around and said, uh so, Mrs Parks, Uh you 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:18.599 know about those horses. I really, but I can learn. 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.160 I can learn. I like horses. But you know, he says, 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.599 he's and I saw the frustration. He says, okay, okay, 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:46.800 and that's it. Oh and you know that about the dancing. Hello, friends, 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:51.240 welcome back to Off the Beat. I'm your host, Brian 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.120 baum Gartner. Now you don't have to ask me who 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.400 are you gonna call, because you just heard that. I 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:03.640 am calling the incredible Ernie Hudson for today's episode. And listen. 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.600 If I had ghosts, I surely would be calling his 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.640 character Winston Zeta Moore as well. That's right. You may 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.800 know Ernie from Ghostbusters, you know, just one of the 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.200 most iconic franchises of my lifetime. Or perhaps you're more 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.080 familiar with him as Warden Leo Glenn from one of 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.679 my favorite television shows, oz or Elsie Duncan from the 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:32.000 Family Business or one of the other two hundred and 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:37.360 fifty plus projects that Ernie has acted in. No big deal. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.479 He's what they call prolific. Ernie has been gracing screens 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:48.880 big and small for almost five decades, and I was 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.600 absolutely thrilled to sit down and talk to him about 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.280 his life. Let me tell you he has some stories 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.920 to share. Okay, here's a couple of spoilers. He is 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:05.880 path somehow includes the Marines, becoming a reserve deputy sheriff, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:12.200 and working with several of my favorite directors from the office. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:15.240 With that said, I'm gonna let you sit back and 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.919 enjoy our conversation. Please give a warm off the beat. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:29.480 Welcome to Ernie Hudson, Bubble and Squeak. I love it, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:36.160 Bubble and Squeak, Bubble and Squeaker cooking at every month, 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:49.880 left over from the night before. What's up, Ernie? Hey, 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.120 what's up? What's up? Are you doing? I'm great? How 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.239 are you doing? Fine? Man? Good to see you, Good 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.919 to see you. Thanks so much for talking to me. Yeah, 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.680 good to talk to you. Man. How's it going. I'm good. 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.640 I uh, We're going to discuss this a little later. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.160 We've actually worked on the same project together. I don't 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.720 even know if my producers know this, but we never 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:17.239 appeared together. So there's there's a there's a there's a spoiler. Okay, 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.720 all right, okay, but I want to start back first 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.520 you first off, what so what was the project? Do 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.440 you don't remember? I was gonna tell I was gonna 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.680 tell you later, but okay, okay, okay, yeah, I'll tell 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.920 I'll tell you later. Okay. Uh. You you grew up 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:37.080 in Michigan? That yeah, now is that like in the 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.520 uper or we're we're in Michigan. You know, I grew 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.440 up in Michigan. I didn't think there was anything north 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:48.400 of say, Grand Rabbits, but Bears. So it took I 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.120 realized that people actually lived there. Gone from southwestern Michigan, 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:56.520 right along the coast, directly across the lake from Chicago. Okay, 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.640 so yeah, Betton Harbor, what about you? Are you from Michigan, 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.960 I'm from I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. But I was I 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.560 was just there. I was just I was actually in 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.000 Grand Rapids for the first time. Yeah. Yeah, Grand says um. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.119 It's a city, It's a city of bold of Michigan. 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.880 I think it's probably the healthiest city I've worked in 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.240 Northern Michigan and Upper Peninsula, you know from time to time, 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.839 so I've actually been there, but it was not until 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.880 much month later on when you were growing up. Were 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:33.760 you interested in writing stories? Yeah? Yeah, with the writing, 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.960 I was interested in the writing. Um that was where 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.599 I thought my career was going to go and telling 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.320 I love telling stories, so the writing was a big 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:46.240 part of it. And when I got into college, that 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.440 was what I really wanted to focus on, even though 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.880 right away I started acting. I joined some groups and 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.880 whenever we were short of cast member, I've would step in, 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.480 you know, so and as it actually because I didn't 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.880 take it so serious. The acting was fun. It was 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.920 never it was never a job. You know, writing became 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:11.000 a job. And then uh, then I went to Yale 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.559 and they just totally destroyed my writing. So I haven't 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:19.039 written anything worth anything since. But really, yeah, yeah, it 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.600 was not It was I was talking to a young 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:26.080 lady who I was a classmate at Yale, and yeah, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.279 I really didn't It wasn't a good move. But the acting, 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.200 again was fun and I didn't have to think about it, 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.160 and I still don't think about it too much. So 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.000 that's what I do well. That's that's healthy. Before before 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.719 we hear how Yale screwed you up though you you 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:48.680 attended Wayne State and you became a resident playwright at 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.000 Concept East, which I'm told is the oldest black theater 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.920 in in the country. It was for a long time. 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.039 I'm name is sure if they're still there. The city 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.279 has gone through so many changes, but for the longest 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.719 time and had been there, you know, just in the community, 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:12.120 really doing some great work. And Ron Milner, who you know, 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.799 did some things on Broadway and became a wealth established 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:16.960 Woody King who had the new Federal that if they 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.080 all came out of Concept East Theater, and so that 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.040 was kind of my introduction. But I was there thinking 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:29.000 of myself as a writer. Okay, but you you performed some. 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.800 I performed a lot. That's what I basically I realized 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:38.359 that's always been you know, I don't know, I think 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:43.280 I felt actors weren't as um legitimate or high on 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.200 the totem pole is something. Being a writer seemed more 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:53.680 I don't know, you know, just more something. Acting did 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.839 not seem like it was something that you could just say, 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.000 I'm an actor and that would be enough, you know, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.400 you mean I'm an act a producer, I'm an actor director, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:05.240 I'm an actor hyphen something, but just being an actor, 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.200 which it's what my life has turned into. This is 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:09.920 all I do. It's all I know how to do. 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.000 As you're as you're writing now, are they is concept? 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.480 Are they doing original works that you're helping to write? Well? 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.720 Are you talking about during the time? Yeah, original works? Um, 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.440 we would. We had a lot of workshop stuff, so 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.680 these are your plays we put on like it was 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:33.000 really community theater, grassroots. Yeah. And so I was writing 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.640 and they were doing little pieces, you know, little plays, 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.360 had a couple of I was at Wayne State. Wayne 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.680 State did some plays that I had written. Yeah, that 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.800 was sort of where I was, you know, when I 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.560 was thinking of myself. But but I all always it 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.760 was never appeared when I wasn't acting. And when you 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.920 went to Yale that was primarily to pursue writing. Yeah. 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.400 I got into the playwriting program that were I think 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:04.280 only there was six in the program and I made 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.320 an exception and brought me in. So I was the 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.480 number seven and it was I think only like a 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.720 at Yale School drama maybe a hundred thirty five students. 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.040 It's really small, very small, very small, and uh but 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.520 even then, I think that I got cast into play 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:25.080 the first week I was there. So the acting just 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.560 always kept trying to inform me that this is what 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:34.520 you need to be going. One of, if not your 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:40.920 first theatrical meaning film releases, was the co starring role 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:46.440 in Leadbelly. Yeah, and that's stretching it sat co starring, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.880 But yeah, yes, I was in the field. You were 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.439 in the film. How did that come about? Now? At 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.680 this point are you are you solely focused on acting 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.440 or how do you how do you get connected with 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.720 Gordon Parks? No, I was. I was at my first 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.880 year at Yale. A friend who I worked with doing 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.440 a lot of community theater in Detroit, where I got 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.880 my equity card. He was in l A and he 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.080 was doing a play. And when we took the summer break, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.720 I went to Minnesota, where my family was, I got 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.079 a call he was doing a play one of me, 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.000 and and so I came out to l A. Was 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.240 doing the play and trying to just see what I 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.880 could get going, which is absolutely nothing. And then I 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.600 had a devastating meeting with an agent in Beverly Hills 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.920 who told me that I would never work in Hollywood, 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:44.040 go back to Detroit. So set of really strange circumstances 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:46.720 kind of came together. A girl I had met at 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.640 a party. I was so devastated with this agent. I 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.839 mean I really was close to tears. I wasn't, actually, 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.400 I was so upset and so frustrated. I went to her, 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.560 went to see her, and we sat and and drank, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.160 and I went home that night. Her dad came over 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.400 and I left my resume there and her dad was 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:11.960 Gordon Parks. The resume just by accident. But you know, 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.600 I sat the resume that I tried to give to 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.760 the agent on her piano, not consciously doing it. And 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.840 when he came over to dinner, he saw my resume 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.680 and photo and he was doing a movie called Lead Belly, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.480 and so he, the studio of Paramount, tried to reach 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.120 out to me. Took him days because I was saying 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.000 at my brother's house and my niece would answer the 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:39.720 phone and hang up, but eventually I got the call. 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.600 And anyway, so that's kind of how things were meant 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.280 to happen. Apparently. So when I would have been going 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.720 back to my second year Yale, I went to Texas 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.600 to shoot lead belly. There was a choice between school 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.840 or work or work, and uh, you know, most of 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.520 the friends who pursued the whole academic course to the end, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.440 they ended up teaching. And I knew. I knew that much. 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.280 I didn't want to be I didn't want to teach. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:12.520 So that's, uh, that's how I got into and um, yeah, 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.880 Gordon Parks was amazing. I was in down in Austin, 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.440 Texas before it became Austin, Texas, and yeah, I just 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.760 had a great time. Did did his daughter? Was she 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.360 talking you up? Or how? I mean like he just 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.080 saw it and he saw the photo on her piano. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.480 You know, I don't know. I just I get a 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.600 call and I was so depressed. I was so depressed 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:42.040 because this agent had just just took away all the confidence. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.160 I mean, I was just really I was thinking my 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:49.280 brother's house that really wasn't room for me of you know, 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.200 then we neat dinner, that little girl would say I 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.000 was eating all the food up, So then I didn't 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.400 want to eat the food anymore. My sister in law 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.720 took my clothes to the laundry Matt and forgot and 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:09.000 left him, and so I really was no clothes basically um. 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.320 And so when I went to see this agent, I 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.160 borrowed my brother's He had a kind of a blue 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:19.000 jeans jacket and pants. But my brother is about forty 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.600 pounds lighted than I am, so they really didn't fit. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.439 And I went in to see this agent. I borrowed 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.360 his car to go see the agent, and I parked 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.000 in a in a parking space that they charged, and 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.440 those days nobody charged them parking. I didn't think they 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.840 would charge. When I came out, I was so devastated. 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.920 And then they asked me for the money for the 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.280 parking and I had no money, and I just it 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.680 just all kind of that's when I went to see her. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.880 So anyway, yeah, and he just saw the picture and 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.200 they called uh. And I finally got the call and 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.320 they said can you be here? And I said, yeah, yeah, 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.840 can come. But I had no car, so so I 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.920 went ran down the street to a friends, the friend 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.040 who invited me to do the play who's directing, And 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.000 I just took his keys. I didn't you know, I said, dude, 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.319 I gotta take a car. I just grab the keys, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.560 jumped in his car, drove up to Paramount, went in 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.600 to see him, and you know, I had this this 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.960 audition and then he said, he said, I'm gonna ask you. 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.800 Uh he said, this is really it's about Honey lead better. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.400 Lead Belly is, you know, his life. It's really important. 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:31.080 That is a race with a team of horses, and 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.680 I need someone who, you know, is familiar with horses. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.080 Have you ever been around horses? And I said, oh yeah, yeah, 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.400 I know horses. I grew up with horses. He says, okay, so, 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.320 but there's also there's a big dance. There's a big challenge. 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.080 Lead Belly challenges Archie to this dance. And so you 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.160 really you're able to have to do this dance? Are 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.160 you a dancer? And I said, oh, yeah, yeah I can. 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.839 I can dance. I can dance. And then as I 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:57.880 was walking out of the room, I just because I 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.720 didn't know anything about horses and I was and a dancer, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.959 and I had lied, and I just didn't want to lie, 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.440 and so I stopped and I turned around and said, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.680 uh so, Mrs Parks, uh you know about those horses. 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.120 I really, but I can learn. I can learn. I 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.080 like horses. But you know, he says, he's and I 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.960 saw the frustration he says, okay, okay, And I said, oh, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:27.240 and you know that about the dancing, But I can learn, 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:32.080 he said, just just waiting the hallway. So that I said, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.000 in the hallway. And then the producer came up to 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.520 meeting and he said, Ernie um Gordon, he really liked 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.320 you and I he wants you to be in the movie. 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.240 So I'll tell you what. We're gonna pay you six 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.240 hundred and five dollars a week. How does that sound? 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.120 And I said, oh, yeah, sure, that'd be great. Well, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:58.400 the minimum was six hundred four dollars. So I signed 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:02.600 a contract for absolutely the least of my bigger baby, 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.200 but I got the job. You know, what was it 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.680 like being on set, like you know, a movie set 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:14.480 down there on location, first significant work. What how was 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.800 that experience for you? It was, well, it was great. 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.720 My brother who he passed through a couple of years ago, 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.160 but he did a lot of films and a lot 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.000 of films together, he came down with me for a period. 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.360 The people were right. Austin was small. It wasn't Austin 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.400 the way it is now. I just found, you know, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.720 the people truly amazing. I said to my brother, I said, 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.120 you know, wow, man, it's like the people here, which 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.240 when we were mostly around, you know, except for the 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.200 cast white areas because we're shooting out in the country. 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:46.880 I said, that's so nice, man, I mean, it's like 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.240 everybody's really, like, really cool. And he looked at me 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:57.520 and said, try being me. So so you're in the movie. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.680 You're one of the actors, but I'm not. Oh, you know, 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:05.040 it's a whole different ball game with me. Uh but 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:09.160 which is usually his his complaint over the years. But yeah, 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.000 you know. The problem was I also that dance was 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:16.800 so exhausting and so strenuous and and and I realized 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:18.480 that I really had to work on it and it 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.720 in it. They had another dancer who they brought in. 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:24.400 I thought they were going to take my part away. 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.720 Xavier came in and he was amazing, and then I thought, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.280 oh my god, they're gonna but they he was sort 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.960 of my backup in case I couldn't do but I 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.280 and that's when I thought, no, I'm doing this dance. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.320 I gotta I gotta do this dance. But Roger Mosley, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.400 who was starring and who passed away recently in front 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.800 of the producers and Gordon he came and saw me 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.880 dancing in one of the rehearsals and said, oh, I 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.720 guess it's not true what they say about all black 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:58.520 people can dance. So I was always that insecure, like 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.280 I gotta get this, and I got huh. I didn't 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.600 need my double and did all the dancing. I drove 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.679 those horses like never before I did it. But it 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.879 was great. Um, yeah it was you know, I was 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.560 making a movie and Gordon was amazing. He was a 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.600 friend up until he passed away. He always called me 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.639 the character's name, though he never called me Yarning. I 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.080 was always Archie and he he called Sydney Portier and 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.840 asked Sydney Portia to see me because Sydney was doing 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.640 the project. But that didn't work out quite as well. 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.960 But yeah, it was great. It was great. I was 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.440 in the movies. Finally, when you when you finished that, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.560 how easy was it for you to continue to get work? Oh? 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.639 It was. It was rough because like that, Gordon had 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.879 called Sydney. Sidney had agreed to see me, but it 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.760 was taking too long. I'm like, when is it gonna 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.800 see me? So I called I left messages. Sydney was 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.600 over at twentieth century, and so I just decided I'm 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:01.320 just going to go there. So so I went to 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.760 his office as he was coming out to go play 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.040 golf or play tennis or something, and I so I said, Mr, Party, 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.480 I'm Ernie Hudson going in parks to colways. And he 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:16.720 was so annoyed that he never worked with me. But 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.879 I got I did a couple of TV things. I 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.119 got a pilot. Not that I was a regular, but 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.080 I got it was it was shooting, um serious. I 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.040 worked a bit, but at that point my marriage was 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.440 sort of in trouble, ending even in trouble a long time. 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.080 I just didn't realize it. And so I left l 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.280 A after that year and went to Minnesota to try 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:42.399 to pull my family together. And life goes on, but 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:45.760 you know, I tend to run on. So if I'm 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.560 running on with answers, just you know, it was just 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.479 it was one of those times when you don't know 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:55.360 what's coming next, but you just know that you're you know, 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:57.760 you're you're holding on and you're not gonna let go. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:21.600 You did get a number of shows and movies here 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:27.520 and there. Incredible Hulk, Yeah, Jukes of Hazard. Yeah, that 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.040 was After I did some work that year, I went 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.920 to Minnesota and tried to pull my marriage, you get 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.919 the marriage totally. I realized that that everybody knew the 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.840 marriage is ended except me, you know. But finally that 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.040 was over. Did The Great White Hope in Minnesota some 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.840 plays there which were life changing for me. And when 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.800 I came back to l A the next year, I 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.560 went right to work. You went right and I never 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.000 stopped working yet. Where Where did you work? Did you 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.600 work at the Guthrie in Minnesota? No? No? I Um, 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.000 I didn't work at the three. I did, uh, the 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.280 Great White Hope at the Theater in the Round. The 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:09.119 play opened and it was life changing. I mean I was, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.439 you know, starring in it. It was the first you know, 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.639 it was. I was turning thirty. I've been acting for 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.400 it seemed like ten years. I don't know how long 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.119 I have to add the years up, but a long time. 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.600 And I've been trying so hard, and I just felt like, 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.080 you know, my marriage is ending. I had no money, 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.360 stuck in Minnesota, I didn't have bus fare to get 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.439 back to l A. And so I did this play 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:38.040 and for me, The Gray White Hope was a chance 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.640 to just take everything I'd ever learned and poured into 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.520 this character. It was a great character when I was 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.160 I've never had a character like that in movies, but 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:51.000 I just I worked on it like it was. I 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.879 needed that affirmation. And the play opened huge and it 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.800 was a sellout and the press everything was just it 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.879 built my ego. So when I came out to l A, 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.600 I was sort of riding that wave, you know, and 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.480 uh and it it sort of carried. But I needed that. 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.440 So in Minnesota gave me that. I'll always be appreciative 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.840 Minnesota because just now, at the same time, I was 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.080 doing The Great White Hope the University of Minnesota that 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:22.119 taken some classes at but they did a production of 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.239 a play that I wrote, so that the writing was 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.439 still kind of happening a bit, at least in my mind. 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.560 But so the time I spent in Minnesota was really very, 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:33.320 very good. But I came out to l A. And 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:35.520 like I said, I went right to work on TV 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.520 a lot of TV shows, and uh, never really kind 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.120 of stopped working. Isn't it Isn't it amazing. I don't 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.159 know that I've talked to anybody about this, but it 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.080 can it could be something significant like your role in 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.359 the Great White Hope or something sometimes very small. That 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:57.520 that confidence, how much that helps you as you start 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:03.080 going out and audition. It's amazing, right, yeah, yeah, no, 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.480 it's it's um And you know, in times I realized 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.920 it was also physical because I used to think his kids, 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:11.840 you have to look a certain way of these guys 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.280 because they look this way. Then they got that or 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.520 But it's really it's not that. It's it's all about 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.960 what you carry with you. It's all about that inner 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.880 thing and that's what people buy, you know, And when 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.520 you're stressing in your worried or you don't think you're 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:32.960 you know, I, I don't know. That's something that we 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.399 find it. You know, it's always there, but we have 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:39.159 to find that the courage to to allow ourselves to 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:44.199 be maybe a little selfish, a little arrogant, little competent. Right, 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:47.640 you know, I believed with all my heart that I'm 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.880 the best. There is nobody better, I mean, you know, right, 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:56.000 And it makes a huge difference, it does. Uh, these 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.840 roles you're booking Dukes of Hazard, a team incredible whole 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:03.720 high Cliff manner. Are you are you? Are you happy 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.399 with the roles? That you're getting. Are you excited to 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:09.760 be working? Oh? Yeah, I was just I mean, I 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.080 was really excited to be working. I was I'm in 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.960 the game now, but and I assume that it's going 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.680 to build to get that that role that's going to transform, 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.679 and now I'm I'm on top of the game. And 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.199 that was always elusive. You know, I was working, working, working. 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:30.560 Even now at this fifty years later, you know, I 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.240 kind of go, yeah, but that role I need. Uh, 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:36.560 I haven't had that role. I haven't had that that 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:39.680 that what the great White Hope. I just was able 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.480 to every time I did the show and went home, 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:47.000 I was exhausted. I bought everything I knew to the work. 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.040 I haven't been able to usual that. I get stuff 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.480 like we don't need all what you got, We just 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:53.720 need you to do this and then get out of 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:55.920 the way so the other guy can do his thing. 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.800 So you know, I'm not asked for all of me 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.479 and and I'd love to it kind of like Jamie 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.120 Fox when he did Ray, I just felt like, Okay, 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.439 everything that Jamie Fox had went into that role. I 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.159 haven't had that yet, and so and I've been looking 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:15.800 for it. I assumed though that that would come next, 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.040 and it's sort of never never, kind of did you know, 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:22.399 roles changed? You know, early on it was kind of 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:26.600