WEBVTT - This Is How a Locked-Down Shanghai Apartment Gets Food 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.880 Hello, and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.120 I'm Tracy Allaway and I'm Joe. Joe, it feels like 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:24.960 everyone is a logistics expert nowadays. Yeah, everyone was an epidemiologist, 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.600 and then everybody became a dredging expert, and now everyone 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.519 is just a logistics expert for all. I mean, I 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.280 am joking, but there there there are a lot of 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:40.199 people in China specifically that have been forced into becoming 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.919 actual logistics experts because of the lockdowns that happened going 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.680 on now for in some cases over a month in 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.400 places like Shanghai. Yeah, this is a this is a 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.280 really good point. So when people joke about everyone becoming 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.320 an expert, usually they just mean they're an expert on 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.440 Twitter or whatever. But for people who have to think 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.360 about how do you get food or how do you 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.880 distribute food and other key supplies during a mass lockdown, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.640 becoming a logistics expert actually is not just about tweeting. 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.120 It's about serious steaks. Yeah. So, just to set the stage, 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.760 various parts of Shanghai have been in lockdown again in 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.280 some cases for I think up to six weeks something 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.959 like that. The citywide lockdown has been ongoing for about 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.120 a month since the start of April. And what's been 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.679 happening during that is, first of all, the government does 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:33.160 deliver some groceries and needed supplies to people, but residents 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.240 who are affected by the lockdown can also try to 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.839 organize their own deliveries of essentials. And it's a phenomenon 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.559 called group buying. It's something that's actually existed in China 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.280 for a while now. It's not necessarily lockdown specific, but 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.320 it has seen a I don't want to say a renaissance, 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.240 but it has become a very vital part of actually 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.480 getting supplies. So today I'm very excited we're going to 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:02.320 be speaking with someone who has been personally involved in 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:06.480 group buying for their residential complex, someone who has had 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.560 to learn the intricacies of logistics and practice them on 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.400 a day to day basis. This is it is gonna 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.840 be really interesting. There's been a lot of I've seen 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:20.120 various threads of people talking about what's available and going 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.839 on the apps that they normally used to buy groceries, 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.400 and every once in a while they are able to 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.680 find something, but often not, sometimes are able to get 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.200 a little bit of fresh food, and people post images 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.120 of what they're able to get in. But how this 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.080 is all working, what the actual processes, how the big 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.680 companies and uh the sort of delivery system is working. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.840 I still don't have a great understanding. So I'm looking 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.720 forward to hearing how what's going on in practice, yep, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.400 and it might become information that's more useful to even 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:51.799 more people at the moment, because of course there is 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.480 a lot of chatter that Beijing might go into lockdown 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.639 soon as well. And we are recording this on April, 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.799 So without further ado, let's bring on our guest. We're 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.480 going to be speaking with David Fishman. He's a senior 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.600 manager at the consulting firm Lantau Group over in Hong Kong, 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:13.160 may my former abode, and he's currently based in Shanghai. 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.320 So David, thanks so much for coming on, all thoughts, 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.359 thanks for having me. Guys, Maybe just to begin with, 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.079 could you maybe set the scene for us, what exactly 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:27.520 is group buying in China? Um? Yeah, sure so, and 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.520 its most pure basic economic sense, I guess group buying 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.320 is a bunch of people getting together and using the 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.880 power of volume to UH to secure a good deal, 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.760 to secure a lower price or to incentivize a vendor 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.440 or a supplier of something to maybe service an area 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.400 that they wouldn't normally at a price that they wouldn't normally, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.920 because now you have the power of a larger group 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.160 of people all buying together. Well, can you, for our 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.320 listeners to set the scene, describe roughly your living situation, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.000 like how big of a building is it, Like how 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.520 many unit residences and a little bit about like a 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:09.280 sort of like day to day pre pre lockdown, what 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.240 your current environment is like, Yeah, sure, So, I mean 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.000 I live in an apartment community in Shanghai, a pretty 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.119 normal standard i'd say middle class maybe upper middle class 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:23.440 apartment community. There's there's twenty five floors in this building. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.800 Each floor has I think seven units, uh, and our 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.240 apartment block has two buildings like that. It's it's on 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.400 the smaller side, I would say, definitely for an apartment 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.960 community in China. So we've got twenty five times seven 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.839 times two is how many households we have an hour's yeah, yeah, 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.640 And you know, some people are living in Shangha has 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.520 got a big variety of different types of architecture and 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.839 different types of living conditions. Some people are living in 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:56.640 these massive, sprawling thirty thirty buildings times thirty stories type places. Uh, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.640 and other people are living in you know, much older construction, 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.480 much older buildings. Maybe their whole community has just you know, 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:08.000 eight households. So when the city first went into lockdown 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:12.360 or when you were first affected, what was the supply situation? Like, 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.360 what was your initial reaction. Did you immediately go out, 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.640 you know, as we all did in Hong Kong and 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.960 the very early days of and start buying toilet paper 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.320 and rice and things like that. Did did you have 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:27.280 time to stock up? The folks over in Putong had 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.599 about a day or two uh notice, and that meant 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.880 we had about a day or two plus four days, 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.159 so we had about six days notice. I've been through. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.160 I mean I was in shen Jen in and so 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.960 we had a lockdown of sorts in shen Jen But 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.520 that was that was different because we were able to 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.359 leave the house and go out and buy groceries, you know, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.760 once every two days or something like that. The grocery 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.040 stores were still functioning. Uh, there were still some deliveries 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:00.440 going on. So it was a cessation of activities, but 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.800 it wasn't a full you know, stay inside your apartment community, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.080 stay inside your apartment all the time. So this time around, 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.200 we bought some stuff. We went out and you know, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.200 picked up a few things just to make sure we 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.359 had a normal amount of food, but not that much 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:19.760 because you know, it's only four days originally and it 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.240 didn't seem like, you know, we didn't think at the 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:23.839 time that it was going to be at ten or 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:25.640 a fifteen or a twenty day or were you know, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.280 we're at twenty six days now. So we bought, i 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.600 would say, a reasonable amount of food for you know, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:32.799 four days of not being able to get your favorite stuff. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.680 And that's about it. What did they tell you or 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.479 when when when they say, okay, you're going to lock on? Like, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.760 what did they established as the rules? How are they 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.880 communicated and how are they enforced? So when it came 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:50.040 to what does a lockdown mean, uh, that was communicated 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.200 really through kind of municipal level announcements. We understood already 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.880 from other buildings and compounds that have had this quote 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.400 unquote lockdown that it would mean that they're the barrier 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.720 between their compound and that the street would probably be 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:06.840 closed and they'd say, hey, you know, you can't come 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.400 by here. There's going to be some type of shelf 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:13.240 there for delivery drivers and packages to be placed there, 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:14.600 and then you can come and pick it up. And 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.720 we've got this kind of membrane between your big front 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.560 gate and the outside world. So that's that's what we 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.440 understood lockdown to be at the beginning. That was communicated 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.440 through through you know, municipal level announcements and then kind 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:32.200 of propagated down to individual community levels, the lowest organization 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.000 level being you know, the neighborhood committee or the local committee. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.440 So the local committee at that point, UH used kind 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.440 of people that they knew in the building already and 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.720 volunteers and kind of the power of people adding people 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.560 to pull everyone in our building into a we chat group, UH, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.720 an instant messaging we chat group that we could use 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.520 to notify everybody, you know, at this time on this day, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:56.760 we're going to be entering into our lockdown. So once 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.640 the group we chat group was set up, how long 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.840 was until people were doing group buying for supplies? How 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.960 did that get started? By the time I was pulled 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.080 into the big group we chat group, we had already 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.000 established a group buying group, a separate group buying group. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.679 So we wouldn't clutter up the main group. So maybe 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.200 I guess it was probably immediate. Uh, and and so 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.160 we said, yeah, the big group that should be used 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.760 for just announcements about testing and lockdowns and things like that, 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.440 let's let's keep the group buying and all that commercial 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.600 activity in our group buying groups. So it was pretty 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:35.800 much immediate. But what happened because I've seen conflicting reports 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.120 about what is even possible and people talk about going 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.760 on the various grocery apps and sometimes they say, oh, 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.520 there's nothing available, there's nothing that can be delivered. I 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.160 can't get through. Sometimes people talk about there is a 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.800 little bit. It's one thing to be able to buy, 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:51.920 say you want to buy in a group, but what's 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.200 available and what has the process been like? Yeah, there 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.880 was definitely an evolution to that. So remember the first 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.160 couple of days, it was already planned, right, everybody had 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.599 bought four or five days of groceries, and even on 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.920 the second day there was a government parcels. So nobody 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.840 was really freaking out at day two or day three 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.400 or even day four. It was when the cases were 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.600 still rising, say day four, day five, and our lockdown 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.840 had him been lifted, and it had become increasingly hard 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.000 to use the grocery delivery apps because you know, the 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.839 first couple of days, people had stockpiles, they had food 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.679 stored up, they weren't necessarily ordering food that day, so 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.640 you could still get orders through the couple main grocery 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:32.319 delivery apps that were available. But day four, day five, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.440 everybody was trying to use them and it was just 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.200 a huge bottleneck. At that same time, most of the 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:44.040 group by vendors hadn't quite responded to the growing demand yet, 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.880 So at that moment you weren't getting anything through the 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:53.160 standard grocery delivery apps, and group by offers were pretty limited. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.480 There's group by platforms out there that are always offering stuff, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.480 but they couldn't get stuff into Shanghai, and the phenomenon 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.320 of the sho High only group buy offer hadn't really 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.480 emerged yet. So there was a couple of days, you know, 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.000 I would say like the sixth, the seventh for us, 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.800 where there was a lot of real concern because it 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.400 just didn't seem like any avenues, any channels we're going 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.920 to be able to bring us food. What is the 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.320 Shanghai only group buying offer? Because I've heard some talk 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.920 of this. There are these different types of group buying 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.840 requests that go out, So you have sort of citywide 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.520 group buying, and then you also have I think fantasy 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.320 buying where people put like long shot items that they 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.319 would really like to have, like burgers from shake Shack 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.000 and things like that. Yeah, I think I think I 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.400 know the uh what you're referencing here. So definitely at 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.040 the beginning, when group buying was becoming prominent, but nobody 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.720 was really sure what was out there, people would say, Oh, 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.000 I'd love to get you know, X item. I'd love 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:52.880 to get a delivery of shake Shack. Does anybody know 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:54.960 if shake Shack is still open? Can we buy in 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.920 bulk from shape Shack? And they weren't. This would be 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.440 me by the way, during the lockdown, yeah, Or or 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.720 a more practical one that keeps coming up is like, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.720 can somebody group buy some like hair salon some guy 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.640 to show up inside our you know, a team of 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.520 guys to show up inside our building and give everybody 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.360 haircuts because we really need it now. Uh. That's that's 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.760 a good fantasy. But no, at that time, Uh, the 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.760 only things that were available for real besides these fantasy 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.920 ones was you would go on for example, will say 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:29.280 like um, which is a brand underneath pdd pindled big 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.600 Chinese tech platform, and you would go on there and 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.040 you would see all these group buy offers and they 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.600 would say, you know, for noodles or rice or bread 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.920 or wherever. But they couldn't actually get into Shanghai because 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.000 the highway exits leading into Shanghai from outside of the 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.440 city had checkpoints and it was a one way trip. 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.320 If you came into Shanghai, you couldn't leave again because 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.240 it was a city under lockdown. So at that point, 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.520 either you could find a vendor already in the Shanghai 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.160 city limits, or you could find a vendor I guess 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.679 who was willing to make a one way trip. Otherwise 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.520 there was there there were no or very few options 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.320 for Shanghai group buys. Eventually, these big commercial platforms they 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.160 started clearly noting I like quiet Twine would have limited 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.560 only to Shanghai, can deliver within twenty four hours thirty 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.320 six orders of noodles, you know whatever. Uh, They would 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.120 start noting very clearly that it was only available for Shanghai. 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.040 Those are the big tech platforms. Besides that, you also 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.280 had just hustlers, right, people who knew somebody who knew 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.000 somebody who has a warehouse out in the suburbs, and 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.200 the factory workers are close by, and the warehouse workers 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.319 are sleeping in the warehouse in tents, and they can 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.200 get you an order of food if you place an 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.720 order through each head something like that. That was there's 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.040 a couple of different models. So how do you coordinate 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:48.199 with the other households in your complex? And how did 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.640 what's the process of Like is someone deputized to actually 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.560 place the order? Like what is that process work? Like? Yeah, 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.560 there's two different ways to do that. Uh. The the 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.800 more functionally smooth one, certainly is to have the uh 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.400 the app, the software platform quiet Town or another one 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.520 set up kind of like a shopping cart. They already 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.040 have their shopping cart software set up, and so then 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.240 you go in there, you choose the things that you 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.720 want from the group by vendor, you click check out, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.720 You make sure you write down your address the building 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.120 that you're in, and then you you spam it. You 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.200 send it out into the wheat group and you say, hey, guys, 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.280 I just placed an order on this platform. We only 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.520 need thirty nine more people to place an order on 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.920 this platform. Once we get forty orders, they'll ship it 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.719 all to our address. Please just go by, go by 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:39.200 through this platform. That's the that's the smooth, technologically enabled way, 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:44.120 that's more preferable. The less smooth, less technologically enabled way 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.559 is one person me for example, or another group leader. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.440 The group master is the single point of contact. You 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.680 contact the vendor, you pay the vendor a lump sum, 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.199 and then you're responsible for individually collecting money from all 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.760 the people in your building. I've done both ways. Just 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.800 the topic of payment, it is non payment ever an issue? 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.120 Do people say you know, I'm interested and then they 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.120 don't pay or is it technologically impossible for that to 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.400 happen because everything is going through you know, things like 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.599 the red Envelope app where where you can make individual 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.360 payments on on we Chat and stuff like that. Well, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.160 for the technology enabled ones that are going through the platform, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.960 that's all, you know, all very smooth. If you pay, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.160 you get what you received, uh, and if the order 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.400 doesn't mean it's minimum requirement, you get refunded, no problem. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.320 When stuff goes through me. Yeah, we're operating a little 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.000 bit on the honor system for the first couple of orders, 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.240 I insisted on collecting all the payment first before I 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.120 or you know, ninety percent plus of the payments before 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.360 I felt comfortable making the ball order. But after a 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.680 couple of times of it all working out, okay, I 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.880 felt more comfortable just kind of putting my neck out 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.400 there and going out first and placing a big order 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.000 for like a thousand bucks of apples or something, and 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.160 then counting on the fact that my neighbors are going 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.960 to pay me back. Now, of course they might not, 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.360 but it's an enclosed environment. We're all neighbors. We all 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.520 know each other. Now, you know where they live? Yeah, yeah, exactly, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.960 right down to the room number, because I'm delivering the 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.320 apples to it. Uh so, yeah, it's it's on the 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.320 honor system for that second one. And we haven't had 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.480 any real problems. Well, what is the you know, so 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.760 obviously for any of this to work, there have to 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.200 be individuals that aren't in lockdown and people who can 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.640 make the deliveries, and people who can operate the factories 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.120 or the you know, the grocery delivery centers. You know. Obviously, 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.520 in the US, when there were cities that had quasi lockdowns. 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.800 I mean, we never had like real lockdowns here, but 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.840 there were people who are designated it, you know, the 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:45.240 so called essential workers. How has the government they're sort 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.520 of established, who can even be in a position to 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.080 go around the city and make deliveries? Yeah. Sure, so 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.840 at the beginning, it was almost no one. That's why 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:56.720 we ran into the the issues that we did at 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:01.400 the very beginning, where we had an extremely last mile 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:06.520 delivery centric model, right, just tens of thousands of last 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.280 mile delivery drivers all pretty much all removed from the 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.880 street or maybe just working on a skeleton crew of 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.840 five percent, three percent something like that. As the days 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.280 went on and it became apparent that this was going 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.960 to last longer and that the the last mile delivery 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.680 guys had become a huge sticking point in the system. Uh, 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.400 the major tech platforms, your Jingdong, your Ilama, your your 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.840 Ma Twine. They recalled lots of workers who were previously 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.720 in lockdown with their families and said, please come back 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.880 to work. We'll give you benefits and perks and overtime 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:41.680 pay and you can stay in a hotel and you 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.200 know whatever perks they promised them. They called in drivers 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.400 from other provinces as well to try to bolster their workforce. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.400 From the management side, I know these guys are required 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.040 to get a test every day and maybe also an 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.720 rapid antigen test once or twice throughout the day, and 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.280 they have what's called a punic and junk like a 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:07.440 travel permit specifically for logistics drivers and delivery drivers that 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.879 you need to maintain a green a green code on 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.080 so that you can keep driving around all day. In 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.040 the last couple of days, I know that they've just 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.920 mixed up the system for that and they are acquiring 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.200 a different system for the delivery drivers, and a lot 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.119 of the guys didn't get it updated in time, and 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.960 so today we heard some stories of drivers being turned 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.919 away from compounds because they showed up the gate they 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:29.919 didn't have the new code set up yet, and the 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.919 you know, the gate guard said sorry, we've got orders. 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:50.160 Go go away, come back with your new code. In general, 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.840 what sort of adaptation have you seen from businesses, because 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:58.159 you know, anecdotally I have seen some talk of small 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.919 scale fruit sellers, you know, type of people who used 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:06.120 to have stands outside on sidewalks, maybe those converting into 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:11.399 a pure sort of web based selling model and things 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.760 like that. Have you seen the major platforms and the 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:19.400 small scale grocery shops have those adapted to the new situation. 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.960 Oh yeah, absolutely, with with different channels and different products. 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.280 So for a couple of examples, you know my my 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.920 neighborhood coffee shop right across the street. I used to 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:31.960 go there and get a latte almost every day. Now 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.080 they do bulk orders of fresh milk and coffee beans. 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.280 And I assume they're acting as a front for one 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.480 of their vendors, one of their suppliers, right they you know, Hey, 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.600 I'm I'm now the last mild delivery point. Uh let 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.520 me know if you need a bull quarter of thirty 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.199 six bags of coffee beans, and I'll set that up 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.000 for you from my vendor. So that's one example. At 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.280 least he's still doing stuff related to his actual business. Others, 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.160 you know, you'd go on on matoon delivery and you'd 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.760 open up what used to be a crayfish restaurant or 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.960 uh you know, ah, you know, some skewers or something 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.040 like that, and you open up and they're selling eggs 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:12.240 and packages of fruit and and fresh fresh fresh pork 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.760 or something. Right like they've got totally different business models now, 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.119 and they're just maintaining the fact that they still have 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.320 a storefront. They still have a listing on the May 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.960 to one delivery app, or they'll just have a product 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.080 listing that says doing offline business only. Please add this 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.600 phone number and we'll discuss on we chat what we 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.080 have for sale. They're doing everything they can to try 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.120 to get the message out what they have for sale, 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.960 even if it's totally unrelated to what their business used 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.879 to be. Yeah, that definitely happened here during spring of 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:44.760 You see restaurants, it seemed like a mix like you'd 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:49.359 see restaurants essentially just selling groceries. You will also had 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:55.400 commercial food wholesalers whose customers were typically restaurants, uh suddenly 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.080 offering retail and so like you could buy like you know, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.080 hundreds of pounds of like duck fat or something something 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.639 that would typically go to a restaurant. I'm curious also, 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.399 like how a little bit more about how the informal 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:11.000 buying on when you have to use uh weed chat 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:12.879 or you just have to get a message out to 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:15.840 someone like usually say, like the people sort of like 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.600 hustling or scraunging things up from a warehouse, Like how 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.280 do you like find those people and like build those 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.880 connections and how how does the weed chat based commerce work? Um? Right, 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.080 So the wee chat based stuff, it comes from a 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.840 variety of channels. Sometimes it's a friend of a friend, 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.160 somebody says, hey, this guy is selling vegetables. Just add 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.960 him and ask him what's going on. Or maybe it's 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.680 somebody in your neighborhood. It's, you know, generally a good 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:45.080 practice as you become a frequent guest of various businesses 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:46.800 in your neighborhood to get to know the people that 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.000 own them, the local vegetable market seller or your local 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.720 coffee guy or something like that. So if you had 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.880 those in your wee chat already, obviously lean on that. Uh. 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.960 And then you know the channel I just mentioned where 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:04.080 a lot of these stores they maintain an online listing. 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.080 They've taken all their products off of the shopping cart 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.879 software except for one, and it's just a picture that 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.359 says to discuss what products we have, please add my 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.320 wee ch at and then they give you their phone number. Uh. 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.120 So that's that's I would say, those are the three 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.200 main ways where you can try to find somebody who's 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.040 hustling and has some stuff to sell. What items have 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.920 been hardest for you to get hold of? Um? At 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:29.639 the beginning, it was all all essentials, and so anything 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.040 non essential was really hard uh And that included everything 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.480 from like dairy products besides milk uh two sweets to 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:42.000 SODA's things like that. And then as more vendors got 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.240 into the game, these all became available and you could 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.520 buy them. You were you were really only limited by 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.000