1 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. 2 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Allaway and I'm Joe. Joe, it feels like 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: everyone is a logistics expert nowadays. Yeah, everyone was an epidemiologist, 4 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: and then everybody became a dredging expert, and now everyone 5 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: is just a logistics expert for all. I mean, I 6 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: am joking, but there there there are a lot of 7 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: people in China specifically that have been forced into becoming 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: actual logistics experts because of the lockdowns that happened going 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: on now for in some cases over a month in 10 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: places like Shanghai. Yeah, this is a this is a 11 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: really good point. So when people joke about everyone becoming 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: an expert, usually they just mean they're an expert on 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: Twitter or whatever. But for people who have to think 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: about how do you get food or how do you 15 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: distribute food and other key supplies during a mass lockdown, 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: becoming a logistics expert actually is not just about tweeting. 17 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: It's about serious steaks. Yeah. So, just to set the stage, 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: various parts of Shanghai have been in lockdown again in 19 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: some cases for I think up to six weeks something 20 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: like that. The citywide lockdown has been ongoing for about 21 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: a month since the start of April. And what's been 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: happening during that is, first of all, the government does 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: deliver some groceries and needed supplies to people, but residents 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: who are affected by the lockdown can also try to 25 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 1: organize their own deliveries of essentials. And it's a phenomenon 26 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: called group buying. It's something that's actually existed in China 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: for a while now. It's not necessarily lockdown specific, but 28 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: it has seen a I don't want to say a renaissance, 29 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: but it has become a very vital part of actually 30 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: getting supplies. So today I'm very excited we're going to 31 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: be speaking with someone who has been personally involved in 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: group buying for their residential complex, someone who has had 33 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: to learn the intricacies of logistics and practice them on 34 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: a day to day basis. This is it is gonna 35 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: be really interesting. There's been a lot of I've seen 36 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: various threads of people talking about what's available and going 37 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 1: on the apps that they normally used to buy groceries, 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: and every once in a while they are able to 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: find something, but often not, sometimes are able to get 40 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: a little bit of fresh food, and people post images 41 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: of what they're able to get in. But how this 42 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: is all working, what the actual processes, how the big 43 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: companies and uh the sort of delivery system is working. 44 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: I still don't have a great understanding. So I'm looking 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: forward to hearing how what's going on in practice, yep, 46 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: and it might become information that's more useful to even 47 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: more people at the moment, because of course there is 48 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: a lot of chatter that Beijing might go into lockdown 49 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: soon as well. And we are recording this on April, 50 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's bring on our guest. We're 51 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: going to be speaking with David Fishman. He's a senior 52 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: manager at the consulting firm Lantau Group over in Hong Kong, 53 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: may my former abode, and he's currently based in Shanghai. 54 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: So David, thanks so much for coming on, all thoughts, 55 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Guys, Maybe just to begin with, 56 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: could you maybe set the scene for us, what exactly 57 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: is group buying in China? Um? Yeah, sure so, and 58 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: its most pure basic economic sense, I guess group buying 59 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: is a bunch of people getting together and using the 60 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: power of volume to UH to secure a good deal, 61 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: to secure a lower price or to incentivize a vendor 62 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: or a supplier of something to maybe service an area 63 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't normally at a price that they wouldn't normally, 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: because now you have the power of a larger group 65 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: of people all buying together. Well, can you, for our 66 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: listeners to set the scene, describe roughly your living situation, 67 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: like how big of a building is it, Like how 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: many unit residences and a little bit about like a 69 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: sort of like day to day pre pre lockdown, what 70 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: your current environment is like, Yeah, sure, So, I mean 71 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: I live in an apartment community in Shanghai, a pretty 72 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,119 Speaker 1: normal standard i'd say middle class maybe upper middle class 73 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: apartment community. There's there's twenty five floors in this building. 74 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: Each floor has I think seven units, uh, and our 75 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: apartment block has two buildings like that. It's it's on 76 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: the smaller side, I would say, definitely for an apartment 77 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: community in China. So we've got twenty five times seven 78 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: times two is how many households we have an hour's yeah, yeah, 79 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: And you know, some people are living in Shangha has 80 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: got a big variety of different types of architecture and 81 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: different types of living conditions. Some people are living in 82 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: these massive, sprawling thirty thirty buildings times thirty stories type places. Uh, 83 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: and other people are living in you know, much older construction, 84 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: much older buildings. Maybe their whole community has just you know, 85 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: eight households. So when the city first went into lockdown 86 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: or when you were first affected, what was the supply situation? Like, 87 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: what was your initial reaction. Did you immediately go out, 88 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, as we all did in Hong Kong and 89 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: the very early days of and start buying toilet paper 90 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: and rice and things like that. Did did you have 91 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: time to stock up? The folks over in Putong had 92 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: about a day or two uh notice, and that meant 93 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: we had about a day or two plus four days, 94 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: so we had about six days notice. I've been through. 95 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: I mean I was in shen Jen in and so 96 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: we had a lockdown of sorts in shen Jen But 97 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: that was that was different because we were able to 98 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: leave the house and go out and buy groceries, you know, 99 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: once every two days or something like that. The grocery 100 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: stores were still functioning. Uh, there were still some deliveries 101 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: going on. So it was a cessation of activities, but 102 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't a full you know, stay inside your apartment community, 103 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: stay inside your apartment all the time. So this time around, 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: we bought some stuff. We went out and you know, 105 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: picked up a few things just to make sure we 106 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: had a normal amount of food, but not that much 107 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: because you know, it's only four days originally and it 108 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: didn't seem like, you know, we didn't think at the 109 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: time that it was going to be at ten or 110 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: a fifteen or a twenty day or were you know, 111 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: we're at twenty six days now. So we bought, i 112 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: would say, a reasonable amount of food for you know, 113 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: four days of not being able to get your favorite stuff. 114 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: And that's about it. What did they tell you or 115 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: when when when they say, okay, you're going to lock on? Like, 116 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: what did they established as the rules? How are they 117 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: communicated and how are they enforced? So when it came 118 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: to what does a lockdown mean, uh, that was communicated 119 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: really through kind of municipal level announcements. We understood already 120 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: from other buildings and compounds that have had this quote 121 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: unquote lockdown that it would mean that they're the barrier 122 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: between their compound and that the street would probably be 123 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: closed and they'd say, hey, you know, you can't come 124 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: by here. There's going to be some type of shelf 125 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: there for delivery drivers and packages to be placed there, 126 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: and then you can come and pick it up. And 127 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: we've got this kind of membrane between your big front 128 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: gate and the outside world. So that's that's what we 129 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: understood lockdown to be at the beginning. That was communicated 130 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: through through you know, municipal level announcements and then kind 131 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: of propagated down to individual community levels, the lowest organization 132 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: level being you know, the neighborhood committee or the local committee. 133 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: So the local committee at that point, UH used kind 134 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: of people that they knew in the building already and 135 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: volunteers and kind of the power of people adding people 136 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: to pull everyone in our building into a we chat group, UH, 137 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: an instant messaging we chat group that we could use 138 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: to notify everybody, you know, at this time on this day, 139 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: we're going to be entering into our lockdown. So once 140 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: the group we chat group was set up, how long 141 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: was until people were doing group buying for supplies? How 142 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: did that get started? By the time I was pulled 143 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: into the big group we chat group, we had already 144 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: established a group buying group, a separate group buying group. 145 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,679 Speaker 1: So we wouldn't clutter up the main group. So maybe 146 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: I guess it was probably immediate. Uh, and and so 147 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: we said, yeah, the big group that should be used 148 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: for just announcements about testing and lockdowns and things like that, 149 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: let's let's keep the group buying and all that commercial 150 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: activity in our group buying groups. So it was pretty 151 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: much immediate. But what happened because I've seen conflicting reports 152 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: about what is even possible and people talk about going 153 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: on the various grocery apps and sometimes they say, oh, 154 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: there's nothing available, there's nothing that can be delivered. I 155 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: can't get through. Sometimes people talk about there is a 156 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: little bit. It's one thing to be able to buy, 157 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: say you want to buy in a group, but what's 158 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: available and what has the process been like? Yeah, there 159 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: was definitely an evolution to that. So remember the first 160 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: couple of days, it was already planned, right, everybody had 161 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,599 Speaker 1: bought four or five days of groceries, and even on 162 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: the second day there was a government parcels. So nobody 163 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: was really freaking out at day two or day three 164 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: or even day four. It was when the cases were 165 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: still rising, say day four, day five, and our lockdown 166 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: had him been lifted, and it had become increasingly hard 167 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: to use the grocery delivery apps because you know, the 168 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: first couple of days, people had stockpiles, they had food 169 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: stored up, they weren't necessarily ordering food that day, so 170 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: you could still get orders through the couple main grocery 171 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: delivery apps that were available. But day four, day five, 172 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: everybody was trying to use them and it was just 173 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: a huge bottleneck. At that same time, most of the 174 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: group by vendors hadn't quite responded to the growing demand yet, 175 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: So at that moment you weren't getting anything through the 176 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: standard grocery delivery apps, and group by offers were pretty limited. 177 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: There's group by platforms out there that are always offering stuff, 178 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: but they couldn't get stuff into Shanghai, and the phenomenon 179 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: of the sho High only group buy offer hadn't really 180 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: emerged yet. So there was a couple of days, you know, 181 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: I would say like the sixth, the seventh for us, 182 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: where there was a lot of real concern because it 183 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: just didn't seem like any avenues, any channels we're going 184 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: to be able to bring us food. What is the 185 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: Shanghai only group buying offer? Because I've heard some talk 186 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: of this. There are these different types of group buying 187 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: requests that go out, So you have sort of citywide 188 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: group buying, and then you also have I think fantasy 189 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: buying where people put like long shot items that they 190 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: would really like to have, like burgers from shake Shack 191 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: and things like that. Yeah, I think I think I 192 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: know the uh what you're referencing here. So definitely at 193 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: the beginning, when group buying was becoming prominent, but nobody 194 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: was really sure what was out there, people would say, Oh, 195 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: I'd love to get you know, X item. I'd love 196 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: to get a delivery of shake Shack. Does anybody know 197 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: if shake Shack is still open? Can we buy in 198 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: bulk from shape Shack? And they weren't. This would be 199 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: me by the way, during the lockdown, yeah, Or or 200 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: a more practical one that keeps coming up is like, 201 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: can somebody group buy some like hair salon some guy 202 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: to show up inside our you know, a team of 203 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: guys to show up inside our building and give everybody 204 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: haircuts because we really need it now. Uh. That's that's 205 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: a good fantasy. But no, at that time, Uh, the 206 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: only things that were available for real besides these fantasy 207 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: ones was you would go on for example, will say 208 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: like um, which is a brand underneath pdd pindled big 209 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: Chinese tech platform, and you would go on there and 210 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: you would see all these group buy offers and they 211 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: would say, you know, for noodles or rice or bread 212 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: or wherever. But they couldn't actually get into Shanghai because 213 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: the highway exits leading into Shanghai from outside of the 214 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: city had checkpoints and it was a one way trip. 215 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: If you came into Shanghai, you couldn't leave again because 216 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: it was a city under lockdown. So at that point, 217 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: either you could find a vendor already in the Shanghai 218 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: city limits, or you could find a vendor I guess 219 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: who was willing to make a one way trip. Otherwise 220 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: there was there there were no or very few options 221 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: for Shanghai group buys. Eventually, these big commercial platforms they 222 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: started clearly noting I like quiet Twine would have limited 223 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: only to Shanghai, can deliver within twenty four hours thirty 224 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: six orders of noodles, you know whatever. Uh, They would 225 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: start noting very clearly that it was only available for Shanghai. 226 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: Those are the big tech platforms. Besides that, you also 227 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: had just hustlers, right, people who knew somebody who knew 228 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: somebody who has a warehouse out in the suburbs, and 229 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: the factory workers are close by, and the warehouse workers 230 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: are sleeping in the warehouse in tents, and they can 231 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: get you an order of food if you place an 232 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: order through each head something like that. That was there's 233 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: a couple of different models. So how do you coordinate 234 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: with the other households in your complex? And how did 235 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: what's the process of Like is someone deputized to actually 236 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: place the order? Like what is that process work? Like? Yeah, 237 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: there's two different ways to do that. Uh. The the 238 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: more functionally smooth one, certainly is to have the uh 239 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: the app, the software platform quiet Town or another one 240 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: set up kind of like a shopping cart. They already 241 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: have their shopping cart software set up, and so then 242 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: you go in there, you choose the things that you 243 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: want from the group by vendor, you click check out, 244 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: You make sure you write down your address the building 245 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: that you're in, and then you you spam it. You 246 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: send it out into the wheat group and you say, hey, guys, 247 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: I just placed an order on this platform. We only 248 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: need thirty nine more people to place an order on 249 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: this platform. Once we get forty orders, they'll ship it 250 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: all to our address. Please just go by, go by 251 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: through this platform. That's the that's the smooth, technologically enabled way, 252 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: that's more preferable. The less smooth, less technologically enabled way 253 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: is one person me for example, or another group leader. 254 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: The group master is the single point of contact. You 255 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: contact the vendor, you pay the vendor a lump sum, 256 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: and then you're responsible for individually collecting money from all 257 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: the people in your building. I've done both ways. Just 258 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: the topic of payment, it is non payment ever an issue? 259 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: Do people say you know, I'm interested and then they 260 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: don't pay or is it technologically impossible for that to 261 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: happen because everything is going through you know, things like 262 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,599 Speaker 1: the red Envelope app where where you can make individual 263 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: payments on on we Chat and stuff like that. Well, 264 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: for the technology enabled ones that are going through the platform, 265 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: that's all, you know, all very smooth. If you pay, 266 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: you get what you received, uh, and if the order 267 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's minimum requirement, you get refunded, no problem. 268 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: When stuff goes through me. Yeah, we're operating a little 269 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: bit on the honor system for the first couple of orders, 270 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: I insisted on collecting all the payment first before I 271 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: or you know, ninety percent plus of the payments before 272 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: I felt comfortable making the ball order. But after a 273 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: couple of times of it all working out, okay, I 274 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: felt more comfortable just kind of putting my neck out 275 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: there and going out first and placing a big order 276 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: for like a thousand bucks of apples or something, and 277 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: then counting on the fact that my neighbors are going 278 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: to pay me back. Now, of course they might not, 279 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: but it's an enclosed environment. We're all neighbors. We all 280 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: know each other. Now, you know where they live? Yeah, yeah, exactly, 281 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: right down to the room number, because I'm delivering the 282 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: apples to it. Uh so, yeah, it's it's on the 283 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: honor system for that second one. And we haven't had 284 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: any real problems. Well, what is the you know, so 285 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: obviously for any of this to work, there have to 286 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: be individuals that aren't in lockdown and people who can 287 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: make the deliveries, and people who can operate the factories 288 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: or the you know, the grocery delivery centers. You know. Obviously, 289 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: in the US, when there were cities that had quasi lockdowns. 290 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we never had like real lockdowns here, but 291 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: there were people who are designated it, you know, the 292 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: so called essential workers. How has the government they're sort 293 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: of established, who can even be in a position to 294 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: go around the city and make deliveries? Yeah. Sure, so 295 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: at the beginning, it was almost no one. That's why 296 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: we ran into the the issues that we did at 297 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: the very beginning, where we had an extremely last mile 298 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: delivery centric model, right, just tens of thousands of last 299 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: mile delivery drivers all pretty much all removed from the 300 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: street or maybe just working on a skeleton crew of 301 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: five percent, three percent something like that. As the days 302 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: went on and it became apparent that this was going 303 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: to last longer and that the the last mile delivery 304 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: guys had become a huge sticking point in the system. Uh, 305 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: the major tech platforms, your Jingdong, your Ilama, your your 306 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: Ma Twine. They recalled lots of workers who were previously 307 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: in lockdown with their families and said, please come back 308 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: to work. We'll give you benefits and perks and overtime 309 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: pay and you can stay in a hotel and you 310 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: know whatever perks they promised them. They called in drivers 311 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: from other provinces as well to try to bolster their workforce. 312 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: From the management side, I know these guys are required 313 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: to get a test every day and maybe also an 314 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: rapid antigen test once or twice throughout the day, and 315 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: they have what's called a punic and junk like a 316 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: travel permit specifically for logistics drivers and delivery drivers that 317 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: you need to maintain a green a green code on 318 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: so that you can keep driving around all day. In 319 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: the last couple of days, I know that they've just 320 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: mixed up the system for that and they are acquiring 321 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: a different system for the delivery drivers, and a lot 322 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: of the guys didn't get it updated in time, and 323 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: so today we heard some stories of drivers being turned 324 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: away from compounds because they showed up the gate they 325 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: didn't have the new code set up yet, and the 326 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: you know, the gate guard said sorry, we've got orders. 327 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: Go go away, come back with your new code. In general, 328 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: what sort of adaptation have you seen from businesses, because 329 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: you know, anecdotally I have seen some talk of small 330 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: scale fruit sellers, you know, type of people who used 331 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: to have stands outside on sidewalks, maybe those converting into 332 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: a pure sort of web based selling model and things 333 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: like that. Have you seen the major platforms and the 334 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: small scale grocery shops have those adapted to the new situation. 335 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, with with different channels and different products. 336 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: So for a couple of examples, you know my my 337 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: neighborhood coffee shop right across the street. I used to 338 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: go there and get a latte almost every day. Now 339 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: they do bulk orders of fresh milk and coffee beans. 340 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: And I assume they're acting as a front for one 341 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: of their vendors, one of their suppliers, right they you know, Hey, 342 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm I'm now the last mild delivery point. Uh let 343 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: me know if you need a bull quarter of thirty 344 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: six bags of coffee beans, and I'll set that up 345 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: for you from my vendor. So that's one example. At 346 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: least he's still doing stuff related to his actual business. Others, 347 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, you'd go on on matoon delivery and you'd 348 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: open up what used to be a crayfish restaurant or 349 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: uh you know, ah, you know, some skewers or something 350 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: like that, and you open up and they're selling eggs 351 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: and packages of fruit and and fresh fresh fresh pork 352 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: or something. Right like they've got totally different business models now, 353 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: and they're just maintaining the fact that they still have 354 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: a storefront. They still have a listing on the May 355 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: to one delivery app, or they'll just have a product 356 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: listing that says doing offline business only. Please add this 357 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: phone number and we'll discuss on we chat what we 358 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: have for sale. They're doing everything they can to try 359 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: to get the message out what they have for sale, 360 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: even if it's totally unrelated to what their business used 361 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, that definitely happened here during spring of 362 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: You see restaurants, it seemed like a mix like you'd 363 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: see restaurants essentially just selling groceries. You will also had 364 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: commercial food wholesalers whose customers were typically restaurants, uh suddenly 365 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: offering retail and so like you could buy like you know, 366 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: hundreds of pounds of like duck fat or something something 367 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: that would typically go to a restaurant. I'm curious also, 368 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: like how a little bit more about how the informal 369 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: buying on when you have to use uh weed chat 370 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: or you just have to get a message out to 371 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: someone like usually say, like the people sort of like 372 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: hustling or scraunging things up from a warehouse, Like how 373 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: do you like find those people and like build those 374 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: connections and how how does the weed chat based commerce work? Um? Right, 375 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: So the wee chat based stuff, it comes from a 376 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: variety of channels. Sometimes it's a friend of a friend, 377 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: somebody says, hey, this guy is selling vegetables. Just add 378 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: him and ask him what's going on. Or maybe it's 379 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: somebody in your neighborhood. It's, you know, generally a good 380 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: practice as you become a frequent guest of various businesses 381 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: in your neighborhood to get to know the people that 382 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: own them, the local vegetable market seller or your local 383 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: coffee guy or something like that. So if you had 384 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: those in your wee chat already, obviously lean on that. Uh. 385 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: And then you know the channel I just mentioned where 386 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: a lot of these stores they maintain an online listing. 387 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: They've taken all their products off of the shopping cart 388 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: software except for one, and it's just a picture that 389 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: says to discuss what products we have, please add my 390 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: wee ch at and then they give you their phone number. Uh. 391 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: So that's that's I would say, those are the three 392 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: main ways where you can try to find somebody who's 393 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: hustling and has some stuff to sell. What items have 394 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: been hardest for you to get hold of? Um? At 395 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: the beginning, it was all all essentials, and so anything 396 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: non essential was really hard uh And that included everything 397 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: from like dairy products besides milk uh two sweets to 398 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: SODA's things like that. And then as more vendors got 399 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: into the game, these all became available and you could 400 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: buy them. You were you were really only limited by 401 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: whether or not you could scrounge together enough people to 402 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: put together a group by I mean, that's always going 403 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: to be a challenge. At this point, now, I would say, 404 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: almost everything that I could think of that I want 405 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: to order, I can order, or I could have ordered 406 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: if I could have found forty nine more people to 407 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: order it with me. And maybe you know that's the 408 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: limiting factor. But there's there's a vendor out there for 409 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: almost everything I can imagine now at this point, So 410 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: it has healed to a significant degree. So what is 411 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: it what I mean, setting aside the actual like aspect 412 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: of like ordering foods and other like basic necessities, can 413 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: you just like walk through a little bit about like 414 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: what your day to day life is like? Do you 415 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: are you able to get outside? Do you have space? 416 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: H is there room or to walk around? Like? What 417 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: is or how? What are people doing? Right? So we've 418 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: had we've had a case in our building in the 419 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: last seven days, which puts us into the the highest 420 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: level of of secure zone controlled zone in in theory, 421 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: we're not even supposed to leave our doors, uh, to 422 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: the doors to our apartments, but hours like, I think 423 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: a lot of other buildings have been operating that on 424 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: the Honor code as well, because I still see people 425 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: going downstairs. There's nothing there's no security camera at my 426 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: door anything like that. I can still go outside and 427 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: go downstairs. And uh, if I spent a lot of 428 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: time downstairs hanging out out in the courtyard or something, 429 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: I'm sure my neighbors would have something to say about me, 430 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: because we're all supposed to be staying inside our apartments, 431 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: but there's no actual restriction on, you know, walking down 432 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: and walking around. I'm a volunteer for receiving our delivery, 433 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: so I get out a lot already. I get to 434 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: breathe the fresh air, and I get to spend a 435 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: lot of time outdoors. Other people, you know, they gotta 436 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: walk their dogs or they just want to get some 437 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: fresh air. I've seen people going out and spending some 438 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: time outside. I know other apartment compounds and other apartment 439 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: communities have differing levels of stringency when it comes to this, 440 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: and in some places are very strict about not leaving 441 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: your door at all. What's your sense of the official 442 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: data that's been out there around cases and supply availability 443 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: and maybe fatalities as well, versus what you've personally ex 444 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: varienced and seen on the ground, Because of course, when 445 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: it comes to China, there are always questions and sometimes 446 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: doubts about the validity of the official data. So I'm 447 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: curious how your personal experience stacks up against what's been 448 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: officially reported. I think, you know, I can only speak 449 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: to my own experience. Right What we've seen is cases 450 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: that we knew a d per, we're in our building, 451 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: we knew were ad percent, we're in our compound. They 452 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: showed up, but they took some time, you know, four 453 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: or five six days between when we knew that case 454 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: appeared and we thought that person had been evacuated from 455 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: the building and brought to a medical treatment center, and 456 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: when that case appeared on the official ledger of of 457 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: our neighborhood of our district or subdistrict. So right now, 458 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: what I can say is, I know there's a lag 459 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: between when cases appear in real life and when that 460 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: individual case ends up making its way into the big 461 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: numbers the official data. Certainly, at the beginning, I think 462 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: based on what we had seen coming out of statistically 463 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: from other locations that had on the Crown breakouts, it 464 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: looks like we were looked like we were seeing a 465 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: lot of cases with an incompatible number of severe critical 466 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: cases and mortality. I would say in the last you know, 467 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: I haven't been checking the numbers every single day, but 468 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: certainly I know in the last few days those numbers, 469 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: unfortunately have been have been rising. And will they end 470 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: up you know, somewhat statistically, uh, matching to what we've 471 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: seen from other locations, I don't know, but certainly I 472 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: think there's been a lag between what we see and 473 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: what we observe and when it, you know, eventually shows 474 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: up in the data. So I mean, bigger picture, I 475 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: think that in the US observing um, what's going on 476 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: in Shanghai, I would say the overwhelming perception is sort 477 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: of incredulity, Like I feel like people just don't get 478 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: it or they don't believe it, and they like, what 479 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: am I missing? Because none of this makes any sense. 480 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: This is so economically damaging, it would appear it's so 481 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: psychologically damaging, it's socially damaging. It seems medically implausible, given 482 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: the virility of some of the latest variants, to even 483 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: have a COVID zero policy. I think people are just 484 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: like scratching their heads. They don't have strong opinions per se. 485 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 1: They're just really baffled. So what would you say, like, 486 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: how do you perceive like the goal here, the strategy 487 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: and sort of like what what victory looks like or 488 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: what the process looks like? How would you describe it 489 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: to someone? Oh? I mean, I think the the image 490 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: of what victory looks like in an ideal world is 491 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: pretty clear. It's it's something like what Shenjin did last month. Right, 492 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: You have a few cases, they pop up, You locked 493 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: down tighter than a clam, You have excellent local logistics 494 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: and apparently pretty strong local government support. Everybody puts in 495 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: their time, and then you re emerge with your case 496 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: load almost our adicated. And you know, I know the 497 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: folks in Shenjen are still having you know, a pretty 498 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: hefty testing requirement. They're testing every two or three days 499 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: to make sure they maintain that. But I imagine that's 500 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: like the platonic ideal for how Chinese city pursuing it's 501 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: its current uh COVID policy emerges from a localized municipal 502 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: COVID outbreak. Now people are going to be analyzing to 503 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: death whether or not Shanghai couldn't do it because of 504 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: local government or because they moved too late, or because 505 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: they were too liberal or whatever it is. Uh. You know, 506 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: it's clear that shen Jen was the golden standard, and 507 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: Shanghai has very has missed that by a long shot. 508 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: So you can understand the desire to achieve something like 509 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: shen Jen. Once it's apparent that the you know, the 510 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: window has closed and the barn door is open and 511 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: the horses run away or whatever metaphor you want to use, 512 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: then the question is, okay, is it is it a 513 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: reasonable ask to try to get back to what Shenjen achieved? 514 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: Opportunity cost? What are we looking at now? Hey, I'm 515 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: not an epidemiologist or a biologist or a public health expert, 516 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: so I don't have strong opinions on what will or 517 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: won't work. I think I do understand what they're hoping for, 518 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 1: and I think it made sense when you were considering 519 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: a Shenjen like scenario. Now that we're in the scenario 520 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: that Shanghai is in, I don't know what they're supposed 521 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: to do. I certainly hope somebody with a lot of 522 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: expertise in that field is considering the different, uh the 523 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: different results we've seen so far from Shanghai, and and 524 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: wondering is is a course correction necessary? Does it have 525 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 1: to be repeated to every other Chinese city that has 526 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: an omnicon breakout after this, or is this a Shanghai 527 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: specific policy. I don't know, but I certainly hope somebody 528 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: is thinking about it. What's your sense of the sort 529 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: of broad mood in Shanghai at the moment and support 530 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: for these policies, because, again to Joe's point, if you 531 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: talk to people in the US or in Europe, maybe 532 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: they hear about these very strict lockdowns and they don't 533 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,239 Speaker 1: really get it. They're sort of incredulous about all of it. 534 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, in China, she President Shi 535 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: Jinping has been very careful about pitching this as a 536 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: way to save lives and saying explicitly that they're doing 537 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: this in a way that's different to what the West 538 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: has done, where they're willing to accept fatalities in exchange 539 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: for you know, less harsh lockdowns and more individual freedoms. 540 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: So how how do you see that portion of it 541 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: at the moment? What's the mood? Like? Yeah? I mean, 542 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: and again, if you if you do it as effectively 543 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: and efficiently as Shenjen did, you have all nothing but takers. 544 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: Everybody gets that social contract, they say, we give up 545 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: our freedoms for a week or two, we get to 546 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: squash everything, and then we go back to a fairly 547 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: high quality life like what we had before. Certainly when 548 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: this drags on the way it has for for Shanghai. Uh, 549 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: what I've been seeing and hearing is that even people 550 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: who are generally I would say pretty supportive of China's 551 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: COVID policy over the last two years are saying, well, 552 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: is Shanghai an exception? If Shanghai is an exception, how 553 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: can we make it the only exception? Because people are 554 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: bummed out here. I think I think that's fair to 555 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: say that the people in Shanghai are are low energy 556 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: they're still they understand the the intent, and they're still 557 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: supportive of the intent. But increasingly, I feel, at least 558 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: from the people around me, the people I see in 559 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: my building we chat group, things like that people are 560 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: losing I don't want to say losing enthusiasm for the 561 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: overall cause, because I think people don't really think like that. 562 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: I think there's and I'm just going to go on 563 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: a ramble tangent here, but I don't think that the 564 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: people in the midst of a of a lockdown are 565 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: really the ones analyzing this by saying, ah, should China 566 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: change its policy on zero COVID now, giving even what 567 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm going through. No, they're just saying I'm sick of 568 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: testing all the time, and I'm sick of being confined 569 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: to my home. And if you told me zero COVID 570 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: means we get to do it like Shenjen, I love 571 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 1: zero COVID, and if you told me zero COVID means this. 572 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: I don't know how I feel about this, but I 573 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: I don't think people are necessarily processing it as like, uh, oh, yeah, 574 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: we've got to change the way we think about this now. 575 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,479 Speaker 1: I think most people are just thinking about it on 576 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: a daily life basis, and I would say, yeah, they're 577 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: they're sick of it, they're sick of being inside, they're 578 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: sick of whatever this is. And if you want to 579 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: rebrand it, if you want to call it something else, 580 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: if you want to say this is dynamic zero COVID 581 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: or now this is uh some version of living with it, 582 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: but we're still trying to get back to zero. However 583 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: you brand it, just like, make this better, make my 584 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: life right now better, and then we can talk about 585 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: how you label it, David, what are people doing who 586 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: don't have jobs that can be done on a computer. 587 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: I've got to imagine they're surviving on the largess of 588 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: their employers if possible. If not, then they might be 589 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: cutting into their savings. I mean, I'm a pretty white 590 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: collar guy, and most of the people I know are 591 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: white collar too, so we're all working from home. I 592 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: know shen Jin had some pretty strict policies back in 593 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: when I was there about whether or not employers were 594 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: allowed to dismiss their employees because they weren't working, and 595 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: what kind of protections were in place for them. And 596 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: I haven't seen or heard anything about whether there's something 597 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: equivalent right now, and so David, we would be remiss 598 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: if we had you on and if we didn't talk 599 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: a little bit about electricity in China as well, because 600 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: this is your day to day job. Speaking of jobs, 601 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: I want to ask what's your sense of what's happening 602 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: with Chinese infrastructure spending at the moment um. And I 603 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: know you're very interested in renewables, but we did have 604 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: GDP figures released relatively recently showing a slowdown in growth, 605 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: which is something you might expect going into lockdown, although 606 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: the figures actually didn't take that most recent period into account. 607 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: But do you feel like there's a big wave of 608 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: fresh infrastructure spending coming to try to offset some of 609 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: these lockdowns or is it basically impossible to do these 610 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: projects given the current situation. Well, I'll say if we 611 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: talk about offsetting sluggish GDP growth with big infrastructure projects, 612 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: that gets into macroeconomic questions and I tend to avoid 613 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: those because I think that's black magic. But I will 614 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: say from an individual microeconomic perspective, there's massive demand for 615 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: renewable electricity in a government plans for capacity of of 616 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: power and that it has to be green power. Renewable 617 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: power are are staggering, and that that the cart would 618 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: pull the horse in that sense where we would say 619 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: we need to pull up GDP figures. So we're going 620 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: to increase infrastructure spending. I don't know if that's the 621 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: right way i'd think about it. I think of it 622 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: in terms of we are definitely going to build a 623 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: lot of green energy, a lot of infrastructure associated green 624 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: energy because we want it, because we need it, and 625 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: then maybe that becomes a thing that actually props up 626 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: g d P, but not necessarily know the other direction 627 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: the on the microeconomic level, so many international corporations and 628 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: grid companies and state owned enterprises, everybody has these mandates 629 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: to consume a ton of renewable electricity, and all of 630 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: the grid infrastructure and all the power plants and everything 631 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: that goes into making those individual microeconomic needs achievable and 632 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: meatable means building a lot of stuff. So I guess 633 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: if you look at it from that perspective, yeah, sure, 634 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: a lot of infrastructure spending coming in to be able 635 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: to meet the green development goals is uh just you know, 636 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: in terms of total energy demand this sort of acute moment, 637 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen global oil prices um well, they're 638 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: still very high, but they've come down from recent highs. 639 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: In part, it would seem very likely because of this 640 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: collapse of Chinese demand for gasoline and other petroleum products Shaw, 641 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: so many people are stuck inside their homes. Like what 642 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: do you view as uh, the sort of the sort 643 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: of that the size of the current shock to energy 644 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: demand from these changing consumption patterns and just changing patterns 645 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: while the lockdown is happening. Well, certainly if the lockdown 646 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: right now is just Shanghai, So Shanghai has twenty five 647 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: million people, which is actually just a drop in the 648 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: bucket for China if you see, and there's a couple 649 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: other places that are under lockdown, but most of the 650 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: country is is business as usual right now. So we're 651 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: for seeing reduced energy demand. It's probably more macro economic stuff, uh, 652 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: more long term macroeconomic stuff. There might be uh kind 653 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 1: of domestic consumption instability or domestic consumption kind of uncertainty 654 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: that would lead to us a bit of a slowdown. 655 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: But you know, Shanghai individually, I don't think is it's 656 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: going to be driving that we're gonna have to leave 657 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: it there. I hope that things start to improve for 658 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: for you and your neighbors relatively soon. But thank you 659 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: so much for coming on all thoughts and walking us 660 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: through everything that's been going on in Shanghai. Really appreciate it. Yeah, sure, 661 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: thanks for having me, so, Joe. One thing I was 662 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: thinking about through all of the was how impossible it 663 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: would be to do this in the US, not just 664 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: because I think people would sort of intuitively revolt against it, 665 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: but also because I don't really think we have the 666 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: technology or the platforms to arrange things like this. Certainly, 667 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: like imagine, well, I guess you could Venmo payments, but 668 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: it just seems like it would be a massive hassle. 669 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: Now the software wouldn't exist for like the group purchasing 670 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: or group shopping cards. And I remember, of course, you know, 671 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: one of the first conversations we had over two years 672 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: ago with with Dan Wong and some of the other 673 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: technologies that David was just talking about, like you know, 674 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: the idea of like issuing people a different colored basically 675 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: passport or a different type of license to be out. 676 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: You know, we would never have the sort of like 677 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 1: agility on a sort of like government or neighborhood level 678 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: to like issue something like that. So fast and have 679 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: people check it for better or worse. Um. I think 680 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: most people in the US are probably happy that the 681 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: government can't quickly like issue all kinds of different passports 682 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: to people for their neighborhoods. But yeah, there's sort of 683 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 1: like a degree of like tech that would make something 684 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 1: equivalent almost impossible to imagine in the US. Yeah. And 685 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: the other thing that I found interesting was the speed 686 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: with which it seems like businesses have actually adapted. And 687 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you saw that here in New York. Um, 688 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: I guess I never really saw it in Hong Kong 689 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: because we didn't have a hard lockdown. But it was 690 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: interesting David's description of like the local coffee shop that 691 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: is now a bulk supplier of coffee beans. Well, I 692 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: was in Texas for a while during that spring, and 693 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: like the local uh text mex place, they would like 694 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: sell these kits where instead of like ordering enchiladas, you 695 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: would get this big tray of like beans and chicken 696 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: and tortillas to make her own enchiladas. And I thought 697 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: that was great. I was like, oh, maybe they should 698 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: be they should all maybe this is how it should stay, 699 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: Like all the restaurants become like milk companies. Yeah, this 700 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: is the other thing. I'm wondering how much of the 701 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: group buying dynamics stays even if lockdown is sort of 702 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, if it goes away, because as I said 703 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: in the intro, group buying has existed in China for 704 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: a while, and people usually use it to try to 705 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: get good deals on book buying or just try to 706 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: secure something that's that's difficult to import without enough people 707 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: demanding it. I wonder if if it becomes even more 708 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: of a thing not specifically related to this, but it's 709 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: sort of I forgot that in China, a city of 710 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: twenty five million people, even though it's but you know, 711 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: the most important city economically, is also kind of a 712 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: drop in the bucket. You know. You think it's like, oh, 713 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: there's this huge hand. Yeah, it's really big. But on 714 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: the other hand, China is just so enormous that from 715 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: the grand scale of like Chinese good consumption or energy consumption, 716 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: it's not like it's not you know, it's not a 717 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: gigantic share, which China is just on a different scale 718 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: to everything else. However, what I would say is there 719 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: have been a lot of anecdotes about smaller villages in 720 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: the countryside being locked down completely. Um, there's someone I 721 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: follow close to Harbin who said the entire village was 722 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: basically carted off to quarantine. Now there's this talk about 723 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: Beijing going into lockdown as well, and so you know, 724 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot going on. China is a big country, 725 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: but it does seem like there's the potential for this 726 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: to be a very significant economic hit. Yeah, really really extraordinary. 727 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: And I just can't imagine, I mean, having kids, having pets, 728 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, I just the fact that you know, 729 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: people are sort of it stretched me as a very 730 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: psychologically taxing situation, setting aside even uh, concerns about being 731 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: able to get food in such Yeah, absolutely, all right, 732 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: shall we leave it there. Let's leave it there. This 733 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: has been another episode of the All Thoughts podcast. I'm 734 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on Twitter at Tracy 735 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: Alloway and I'm Joe Wisn't Though. You can follow me 736 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter at the Stalwart. Follow our guest David Fishman 737 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: on Twitter. He's at Pretentious What. Follow our producer Carmen Rodriguez, 738 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 1: She's at Carmen Arman. Follow the Bloomberg head of podcast, 739 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: Francesco Leavi at Francesco Today, and check out all of 740 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: our podcasts at Bloomberg under the handle at podcasts. Thanks 741 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: for listening.