WEBVTT - Trump Remaking Pentagon Leadership 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.280 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the world's of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.000 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. You can 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.720 download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.000 If you can also listen to our radio show at 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:23.759 two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be sure to 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.040 watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.440 We have gone from talking about reopening to now dealing 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.760 with another wave. We heard about New York City's numbers, 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:34.880 the mayor saying that the city has one last chance 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:38.560 to halt a second wave. Texas caseload topping a million, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.080 US hospitalizations rising to a record, and we're also seeing 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:46.080 a deadly resurgence continuing over in Europe. So we have 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.720 talked a lot about the search for a vaccine, the 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.080 race for a vaccine. We've talked a lot too about 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.880 the role of testing in our battle against the virus. 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:57.080 Let's get into that with Dr Heather Failing, Vice President 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.320 of Laboratory Sciences and Chief Scientific Officer of malcular Diagnostics 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.280 at Clinical Reference Laboratory. They're one of the largest privately 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.240 held clinical testing labs in the United States. She's also 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.039 former director of the genomics lab at Children's Mercy Hospital. 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.600 Dr Failing. Joining us from Kansas, It is so nice 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.080 to have you here with us. I have to say, 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.399 it does feel like things are getting very tough again. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:21.800 First of all, what's going on in Kansas when it 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.440 comes to COVID. Oh absolutely, thank you for having me 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.080 and and correct. Similar to other states, we're seeing a 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.560 surge in cases as well um our our. You know, 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.720 latest numbers showed a positivity rate of about fourteen point 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:40.600 five percent um with about as of November eleventh, pushing 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:45.040 eighteen thousand positive cases. So yes, we're we're definitely seeing 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.280 the same surge. So what does this mean? I mean, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.400 what are your expectations of how the next couple of 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.080 months ago for us? And we're going to get into 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.320 the testing that you guys are doing and what you've created. 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.760 But I do wonder um about what it looks like. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:02.480 I've talked to uh eos of the pharmaceutical companies that 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:03.840 are on the leading edge of all of this when 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.320 it comes to a vaccine, we've heard from a lot 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.760 of different individuals that they are anticipating a pretty dark winter. Yes, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.560 and and I would agree. I think we need to 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.000 continue to put public health measures in place. Uh, continue 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.680 with the masking, the social distancing, and of course the 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.600 testing in order to contain that virus and until we 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.040 can get to the point where we can get the 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.120 vaccine rolled out effectively. So what's going on when it 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.480 comes to testing. I have to say our company here 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.440 at Bloomberg has made it very very easy for all 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.000 of us to get tested UM. However, I tried to 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.360 get testing for family member. It's long lines, there's lists, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.320 there's callbacks. It's really not a great system, correct, I 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.000 would agree. And you know, in response to complaints like that, 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.519 CRL just this week launched a direct consumer offering for 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.440 COVID testing. So it allows the consumer to initiate their 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.440 own test order for covid UM. And it's actually an 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.520 at home, self collected saliva based tests. So uh, some 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.680 of the home base test that you see out there 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.000 use a nasal slob and this one is a saliva 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.119 base test for the detection of stars. Coby two received 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.160 FDA emergency use approval at the end of July. UH 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.960 and it's highly accurate. Tests. In our FDA studies, we 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.919 demonstrated a hundred percent sensitivity and specificity, so no false 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.560 positives and negatives. Um. So we're we're excited for the 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.440 launch of this test in order to expand our offering. UM. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.720 I believe as we get more folks tested, we can 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.200 really before the holidays helped to contain things. Okay, so 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.200 it sounds really easy, um, and I've done the saliva test. Um, 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.080 I've done an easier nasal test. I haven't done the 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.400 one where everyone says it feels like they're touching your brain. 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.400 So thankfully I'm lucky for that. But so talk to 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.160 me specifically about this test. You say a percent sensitivity 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:01.080 and specificity, What does that mean? Right? So our FDA studies, 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.520 we had to compare this test to what the FDA 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.560 considers is the gold standard, which is that long nasal 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.240 farengeal swab, And what we found is a known COVID 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.400 nineteen cases. We were able to successfully identify the presence 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.680 of the virus in a hundred percent of the cases 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.560 we tested, which was definitely good news and when we 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.120 compared in our study the results to the what they 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.960 call the anti nasal swabs, a shorter nasal swabs used 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.839 in other at home kits. Those swabs can only correctly 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:35.400 identify the presence of the virus in the cases. UM. 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.960 So what we found is that it's very technique dependence 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.080 with the swabs, both the nasal and the nasal farengeal UM. 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.400 You don't know how much material you necessarily get on 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.520 the end of that swab. UM, and when yourself administering 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.760 it's it's definitely tricky to get it up there. So 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.320 does that So does that mean dr failing that if 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.560 somebody doesn't do it right, like you said, it's pretty 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:01.960 um sensitivity and specificity. UM. Does that mean if you 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.640 don't do it correctly, there could be a false negative 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.839 or false positive false negative I guess more likely, right, 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.839 that's perfect more likely a false negative. UM. And when 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.080 you do this saliva test, it's much easier. You're just 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.800 spitting in a tube too. It's about a mill of 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.240 saliva that's collected. It's pretty full proof UM. So it's 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.760 a much more even sample source. And we've shown that 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.760 you're able to detect more viral material in that one 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.400 mill as opposed to what's on the end of that slab. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.160 So we're talking about the test that you have their 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.279 saliva base. Do you have a rapid test and a 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.719 regular test? What I do wonder is how's your supply 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.680 chain for making sure that you have enough equipment materials 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.640 in order to meet any demand that's out there, because 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.160 I know that's been certainly a concern as we get deeper, deep, 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.080 deeper and deeper into COVID, there have been some concerns 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.040 that companies are just not going to have the supplies 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.760 that they need correct. That's been an ongoing issue and 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.760 one that we initially wanted to solve for in di 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.359 elopment of this lava based test because early on in 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:08.280 the pandemic we were experiencing shortages of swabs, so we 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.000 wanted a self collect method that didn't depend on that 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.880 or the necessary ppe um. So we once we figured 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.520 out the test worked well and gave good results, we 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:23.200 started investing heavily in the devices that are used for 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.480 the sample collection, as well as building out the capacity 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.919 in the lab, meaning the automation as well as the 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.279 PCR instruments that are crucial for running the test. In 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:38.520 addition the consumables. Um So, we have inventoried substantial uh 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.160 quantities of all of those in order to support testing 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.559 moving forward. So no, no, So the supply chains working 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:48.800 as you want. Everything's going smoothly right now. Yes, we 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.240 did a lot of research in order to ensure that 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.000 that would be the case. What's the what's the demand 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:55.520 for these tests at this point? Can you give us 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.799 an idea? I know you're working with the University of Kansas, 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:02.760 you've worked with other um members of the academic academic world. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.080 Excuse me, um, so give me an idea of what 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.919 kind of demand you're having for these tests. We're having 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.320 a nice demand for him, Like you said, we're working 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:14.679 with universities, l A, public schools, working with sports groups 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.160 like the Kansas City Chief Suite Spans as well as 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.240 Dancing with the Stars. Um So we're having a nice uptake. 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.120 And um one of the things that folks say after 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.960 they've gone through the experience is that they enjoyed the 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.680 test process and then want to offer it to their 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.800 friends and family. UM. That was really the backdrop for 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.840 us developing the consumer facing products so that we could 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.480 broaden the reach for the test and allow others not 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.520 in our customer groups to participate and get a test. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.840 So this consumer product um DTOR failing, how how quickly 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.160 do you get the results? So I'm assuming you could 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.240 have the product at home, you take the test, I'm 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.600 assuming you have to get it into the mail within 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.280 twenty four hours or something like that. And I'm just 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.559 curious when when the test comes back. It comes back 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.000 within approximately twenty four hours from receipt at our lab 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.440 and have a nice, nice turnaround time. But how quickly 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.080 did somebody have to do They take the test and 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:09.760 they have to get it in the mail within a 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:14.000 certain time too, I'm assuming well, they typically they will 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.960 order the tests and then mail it back via priority 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.360 overnight to receive in our lab the next day. But 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.120 the device itself does have twenty one day room temperature 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.560 stability UM, so it does have a nice stability on it. 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.280 But folks definitely want to know the results right right, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.920 So but my gut, but what I'm assuming is that 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:33.480 you do the test, you've got to get it in 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.920 the mail UM within twenty four hours. Then you're saying 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.800 within receipt you get it within twenty four hours, So 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.280 I'm assuming it like within a day or two, you 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.120 know what the results are? Yes, Yes, So that that's 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:48.320 our goal with that turnaround time and why we built 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.960 out capacity to just support that. We want folks to 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.520 get the results in their hands so that they can 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.040 appropriately take action. You know, they can quarantine if necessary 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.520 and notify others who might have been exposed. What are 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.480 your extations about ramp up of this. I mean you're watching, 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.520 like you said, you're working with tensing, with the stars, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.960 you're working with you know, universities. It's it's interesting to 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.160 hear the populations that I've reached out to you. But 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.719 what are your expectations about do we essentially become kind 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.400 of a testing a home testing society. How quickly can 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:20.240 that happen? Yes? I think we can. We can pivot 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.440 to that with folks working from home more now, I 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.600 think they're expecting to do more things out of the home. Um, 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.720 so I think we're definitely going to see a nice 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.960 uptick using this consumer facing product. So we're very excited 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:34.839 about it. All right, We're gonna leave it on that note. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.720 Dr Heather Failing, thank you so much. She's a VP 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:42.120 of Lab Sciences and chief scientific officer at Clinical Reference Laboratory. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.080 Uh and she is joining us on the phone from Kansas. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.559 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.840 Well talk about multitasking. It's the money transfer app that 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.280 provides relief from runaway inflation and a worthless currency. It's 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.120 also the subject of a story from Bloomberg business Week. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.960 Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber and Bloomberg News Latin 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.800 America reporter Andrew Rosani joining us right now, both of 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.640 us on the phone from Brooklyn. And Joel, I gotta say, 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.800 I love when the magazine takes us to emerging markets 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.400 and things taking place that are innovative but kind of 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.800 also out of necessity. Yeah. When I when I first 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.200 heard about the story, I just thought it was phenomenal 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.560 because it is a service that a lot of us 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.440 know and then probably have used, which is Zel, which 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:29.439 a very common money transfer app here in America. But 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:35.400 believe it actually isn't it zeally totally so. So the 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.480 the thing that that Andrew brought up though, was that 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.640 this is actually this app is being used in Venezuela 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.040 basically unintendedly, Like you know, tons of people in Venezuela 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.680 have a currency that's basically worthless. The dollar has always 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.600 dominated transactions there, but instead of it being a hard currency, 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:58.120 what we're seeing is actually people using the app. So, Andrew, 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.040 I'm just very curious, how did this story come to 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:06.200 light and why why this particular service. Yeah, it's it's funny. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.640 Dollarization has been going on for a number of years 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.880 now in Venezuela, just as the inflation goes higher and 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.280 higher and higher. And you know, I was a correspondent 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.080 there for many years, and I recently came back to 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.480 New York and it's funny. When I came back, I 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.640 kept um, I kept trying to use it here and 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.640 it didn't really catch hung because in Venezuela, aside for 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.520 things like rent payments and you know, big transfers to 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.040 friends and families, but in Venezuela, if you use it 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.880 for everything like literally a candy bar or a pair 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.680 of sneakers, people use it multiple times, you know, multiple 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.079 times a day. And to this day, people are constantly 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.319 calling the in Venezuela to see if I can help 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.240 them out and make transfers. It's just so ubiquitous there, 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.360 and it kind of came about because you know, we 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.880 were seeing we got some numbers that was coming out 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:56.880 that like kind of confirmed, but we already knew that. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.280 You know, in cities like Caracu is the capital. It 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:05.120 accounts for over sevent of all transactions there, which is huge. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.280 And this is at a time that Venezuela's under U 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.680 S sanctions and ruled by a government that described itself 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.160 as proudly anti capitalists. So it's just kind of this 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.120 very ironic twist of things all going on at once. 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.880 So we thought it made for a really colorful, fun story. 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:20.760 What's great about it too? And you write this and 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.240 and I think there's somebody quoted about how, you know, 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.480 sanctions against the Venezuelan government right by the US, but 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.640 not necessarily against the people there, And so they're able 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.640 to kind of tap into the US financial system, which 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:38.920 is backed by some really major US players. That's right, 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.319 that's right. Zel is owned by seven of the US's 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:47.360 largest banks, and uh it's network stretches two hundreds of them. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.680 And you know, these dollarizations often happened in other like 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:55.040 basket Case or or prior economies or prior states. You know, 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.520 you can see dollars on the streets of Havana or Tehran. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.800 But this, this, you know, this distinction in Venezuela that 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:08.240 Venezuelan citizens aren't sanctioned UM and they still have access 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.480 to the US financial system really allowed ZELL to take 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.320 off there almost in a way that it hasn't taken 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.880 off here. It just people embrace it far more than 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.120 than than venmo, far more than pay per hour, that 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.760 uh cash app. You see science, homemade science for it 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.240 all over the streets, all over the streets in Caracas. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:29.720 So one of the other interesting notes here is that 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.000 it's not only something that's used within Venezuela, but it's 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.640 also something that allows people out of Venezuela to to 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.720 transfer money into Venezuela. Can you tell us about some 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.040 of the stories that you found out about on that front. Yeah, 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.680 it's UM Venezuela right now, with the ongoing crisis there, 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.160 UM is suffering a refugee crisis comparable to that of Syries. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.280 There's currently over five around five million Venezuelans now living 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.080 outside of their country, and you know, there's hundreds of 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.199 thousands that have to you can, you know, start a 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.559 new lives here in the United States. So this has 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.680 really been away for the d ask or how to 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.640 send money home as well. And we found all these 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.199 situations that people who maybe not have a Zell account 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.559 or a bank account themselves are texting friends and family 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.880 back in the States. One character or one person we 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:24.000 found is a guy named Hirado. He is frightened essentially 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:25.680 does all the shopping for um that he lives in 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.000 Los Angeles, and with a four hour time disterence, this 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.320 poor guy Corretto can't do any shopping until afternoon when 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.760 its friend wakes up. So people who have to completely 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.720 adjust their lives when friends and family are willing to 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.360 be able to that money to a merchant or or 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:48.000 or another person in Venezuela. And so what about banks 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.400 in all of this? Um, you know you mentioned that 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.760 that there is um some little a little bit of 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.320 cagnis um and that you know wells Fargo in particular 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:02.920 as black right right. Um, So from what we would 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.000 tell from the sanctions and talking to legal experts that 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:10.440 there's nothing, uh, there's nothing explicit in the Treasury sanctions 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.920 that prohibit this going on. However, you know, banks us 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:20.640 really really sophisticated algorithms and uh in security software. And 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.080 what we're seeing is that some of the banks, with 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.200 all these UH, with all these transactions going on, and 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.240 so many of them, some of their algorithms and and 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:35.120 Wells Fargo especially has UH has put holds on or suspended, 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.200 at least briefly, hundreds of counts in Venezuela. And there's 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.680 like really through a wrench UH in the in the 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:47.080 basic you know, basic lives of hundreds of Venezuelan's there 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.880 because suddenly the service they're using to buy groceries, pay 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.440 for to their children's schooling, UH, home repairs, you name it, 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.040 they suddenly lost it and it sent them scrambling to 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.880 find new ways. And we reached out to Wells Fargo. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.840 They only said that they would only flag accounts that 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.320 weren't inconsistent with the attended use. And some of these 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.760 accounts have that restored have been restored back. But it's 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.520 it's a situation with so many people and figuring the 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.280 government being sanctioned there. People are are worried about sending 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.600 money or letting their transfers go into the wrong hands. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.240 Andrew really quickly thirty seconds Venezuelan government, I mean, are 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.120 they like wait a minute, we gotta stop this, are 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.720 they okay? I'm just curious what you're hearing. Just quickly, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:33.520 the Venezuelan government president Nicholas Madureau himself has given his 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.320 blessing to Dollarization. They think it's become, you know, this 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.440 escape valve for all the other things going wrong in 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.120 the country. I mean they would be you know, even 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.160 if Dell would get shut down, there would be another 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.360 system to pop up right away, whether it's something like 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.400 venmore or more smaller one. So I don't think anyone 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.280 wants to see the go away anytime soon. Yeah. Interesting, well, 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.440 great read, um, and interesting to see how this is 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.200 working out in Venezuela. Andrew, thank you and much really appreciated. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.760 Andrew Rossotti. He is Bloomberg News Latin America reporter on 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.200 the phone in Brooklyn, or thanks to Joe Webber, Bloomberg 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.960 Business Week editor, also joining us on the phone from Brooklyn. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.080 Check out that full story. You can find it in 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.480 the magazine and also online at business Week dot com. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.200 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer on 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:25.920 Bloomberg Radio. Yes, indeed, you are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Hey, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.399 our tough story at this hour, and it's top because 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.400 I gotta say it's a story that's parked a few 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.119 conversations in my own home, uh, and did on our 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.639 news call this morning. It's about a flurry of changes 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.840 that we've been seeing and talking about here at Bloomberg 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.000 in the Pentagon's top ranks, those changes brought on by 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.240 President Trump. I want to get into what it means, 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.439 why it's happening now. Bloomberg's Tony Capaccio is following it 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.920 for us. He is Bloomberg News, Pentagon and National Security Report. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.480 He joins us on the phone from the nation's capital. Hey, Tony, 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.080 good to have you here with us. So what's going on. 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.399 What's going on is that we're seeing the kind of 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.879 the ramifications of the election in terms of we knew 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.960 Esper Mark Esper was going to be fired at some point. 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.320 That's been out there. Bloomberg goes on top of that, 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.760 but the shot came. It happened pretty quick. It happened 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.320 by tweet, and then followed yesterday by the head of 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.560 the acting head of Policy, James Anderson, tendering his resignation, 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.560 and then the head of intelligence for the Pentagon having 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.800 his retirement accelerated by like a month, and there was 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.520 this cumotive impact here there. It gives the impression there 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.400 there's a tornado going on on the Pentagon, and it's 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.879 it's actually a lot calmer than you might think. But 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.520 the big reason people are concerned here is because a 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.840 fellow named Anthony Tata, I quite a right winger, who 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.359 was up for the policy position back in June. His 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.800 name was pulled back by the White House because it 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.199 lacks Senate support from both Republicans and Democrats. Now he 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:03.359 becomes the acting Assistant under Secretary for policy. Why is 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.080 it happening now? I mean you said, I know, you 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.640 said esper was expected, but I'm just trying to understand. 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.000 You said it's pretty normal, Like help me understand, because 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:14.280 it feels like, let me say to me, is this 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:19.159 a consolidation of power underway? What's going on? There was 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.000 more problem there. It was more problematic when Maddis resigned 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.399 in December. That was that was a shock. Nobody expected that. 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.040 I was there. When Rumsfeldt was fired, that was a shock. 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.640 Two thousand four, Abu Grab the famous prison scandal broke. 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.960 That was a shock because we thought rumsfeld end the 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.280 joint chiefs of Staff chairman would be fired. So this, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.840 you know, while it looks bad, it looks because it's 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.919 it's Trump, and it seems vindictive. And there's three in 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:51.600 a row here. The American people and the listeners can 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.080 take solace in the fact that the military there, they're 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.080 used to transitions, they've seen it. There's an area of 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.920 calm among the jo in chiefs of Staff, General Millie. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.159 The chairman is not resigning. So they're waiting now for 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.440 signals from Christopher Miller, this new acting under this new 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.600 acting Defense Secretary in terms of what's going to be 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.200 his agenda for the next seventy days. So is this 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.040 and forgive me not being political, not pointing fingers, but 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.640 it's it's is it just more of kind of this 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.959 is how the president has run the administration, and so 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.399 changes happen. It doesn't matter what the clock says or 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.800 where he is, you know, in terms of a second 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.960 term or not um. But it's just you know, him 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:34.920 just kind of wanting to do what he wants to do. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:37.360 It's kind of it. I think it's poking it's eye. 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.320 His eye had critics too. I mean, look at it 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.439 this way. You had three Defense. You have three service 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.240 secretaries and you have a deputy Defense secretary. They're all 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.920 passed over for a former Greenberg Navy I think his 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.640 navy still excuse me, who was a counter terrorism director 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.960 and he was brought in. You passed over all three 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.639 of those men and women to the Air Force secretary 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.320 is a woman, and the deputy Defense secretary. You pass 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.639 over them for this guy. Then you gotta wonder, is 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.000 there a is there a Trump agenda? That's that's the 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.439 worrisome part of this. Well, what what could be the 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.800 Trump agenda that we would be worried about? Well, if 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:16.560 you know, that's a good question. I keep I'm trying 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.760 to report that now. But there could be several ways 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.800 he could rat screw the public and the military, so 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.760 to speak. He could try to accelerate the drawing in 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:29.080 Afghanistan over the next seventy days. He can accelerate the 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:34.880 withdrawal troops from Germany. He can really put the blockers 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:37.159 on the the Biden transition team in terms of the 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.080 Pentagon budget, preparation of the budget. There are those types 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:46.200 of things. But the biggest danger of all is whether Iran, Iraq, Iran, 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.320 Russia and China will take advantage of this seeming turmoil 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.400 to push us in the South China see Ukraine, Europe 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.919