1 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to PM mood then No Talking Points, no Bullshit 2 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: podcast that takes you behind the curtain, off the red carpet, 3 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: and to the front lines of progress with change makers 4 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: and innovators that are doing the work to shift our 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: culture and expand their social impact. I am so excited 6 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: to welcome to PM mood Anop Shanta Anop. I started 7 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: following you my goodness on Instagram maybe two years ago, okay, 8 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: maybe twenty seventeen. Yeah, I discovered your work. I feel 9 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: like there was somebody else that I follow who was 10 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: consistently reposting your poems and I just fell in love 11 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: because I felt like your writing was so raw and 12 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: so sexy and just delicious in every which way that 13 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: you express sexuality, sex, love, connection, vulnerability and all of 14 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: those things. So, you know, tell me how you how 15 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: you got into writing, how you got into poetry. Is 16 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: this something that you have always done or was there 17 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: a particular spark that brought you to the pen in 18 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: this way? I think with writing, I started off reading 19 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: other people's quotes that I admired, you know, people like 20 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: poets like Really and Michael Fodette, which is like, you know, 21 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: super sexy and also super raw, and then from that 22 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: it evolved into writing my own kind of poetry, which 23 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: was pretty kind of basic, and I'd throw that in 24 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: with other people's poetry to kind of disguise my poetry 25 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: because I wasn't yet comfortable to reveal myself to the 26 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: world that you know, I can write, this is my stuff. 27 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: So from that it just kind of evolved. In twenty seventeen, 28 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: I started to put the book together. I was seeing 29 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: someone and then we split up, and that kind of 30 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: acted as a bit of a cantalyst to put my 31 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: pieces together into the book. And Yeah, it just went 32 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: from there. It just developed, and I think over the 33 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: years my writings evolved as I have to to kind 34 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: of show different sides of me, or show sides of 35 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: me in more detail. Yeah, your book is from the 36 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: Universe's Lips to my Ears, folks. You can get that 37 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: at Amazon or anywhere you get your books. But because 38 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: we're in a global pandemic, I would encourage you to 39 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: order it instead of going to pick it up. What 40 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: made you kind of move past the vulnerability of putting 41 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: yourself out there like these are my words, these are 42 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: my thoughts. How did you work through that level of uncomfortability. 43 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: I think that kind of came in in layers of 44 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: slowly being able to release myself to the world. It 45 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: wasn't like one day I just kind of took like 46 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: a big jomp and started putting my name on all 47 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: my things and releasing them all sequentially with all my 48 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: name on instead of throwing other people things. And then 49 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: if any other writers I wanted to repost, I just 50 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: put that in my story instead. But I think it 51 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: takes it does take that big first jump for you 52 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: to be like, you know what, fuck it, I don't 53 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: really care what people think. This is who I am, 54 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: this is what I like, and you either accept it, 55 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: well you don't. And I think that that's kind of 56 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: the beautiful thing to me. You know, I am a writer, 57 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: but in a complete you know, in a different way. 58 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: I write about politics and you know, and consider myself 59 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: in many ways a cultural critic as well. But it 60 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: is a sense of putting your thoughts out there right 61 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: to be judged. And I think that for me, when 62 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: I made the decision to just start writing, it was 63 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the same thing. It was just like, fuck it, these 64 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: are my opinions, these are my thoughts, and if you 65 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: don't like it. There are millions of other things to read. 66 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: I think when you when you're writing and you release 67 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: a lot of writing in a similar kind of niche. 68 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: For example, let's you know, like a lot of my 69 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: writing is quite argy. So you attract a community that 70 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: is into that writing, you kind of pull that energy 71 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: towards you, and then once those people kind of build up, 72 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: I think that gives you a bit of a bit 73 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: of a boost to keep on doing it, not because 74 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: you're writing for them, but because you know, you realize 75 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: that there are people that appreciate what you are putting 76 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: out though, and it gives you a bit of a boast. 77 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: It's good. I think, like Mike community, I'm quite kind 78 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: of loyal to me, I would say, and you know, 79 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: I would like to reciprocate that back. So you know, 80 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: I tried to do that as much as possible. You know, 81 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: I think that what your writing has done in many ways, 82 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: and I you know, this is probably the most revealing 83 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: that I've ever been. I'm a bit of a prude 84 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: and you know, and people have said that about me, 85 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: like I am not that person that you know goes 86 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: out to brunch or hangs out with their friends and 87 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: then wants to divulge any aspects of their sex life 88 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: like that that has never been, That has never been 89 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: me and I have, you know, and most people they're 90 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,239 Speaker 1: like they gather with their friends in their comfortable circles 91 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: and they have those conversations what you like, what you 92 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: don't like, you know, and talk about yourself or your 93 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: partners or what have you. And I think that for me, 94 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: your writing was so like provided a much needed layer 95 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: of courage that I did not have to say, like 96 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: this is sexy. I like this, you know, I like 97 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: the way that this sounds as I'm reciting it, like 98 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: in my own head or out loud like I It's 99 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: almost as if, you know, following you on Instagram almost 100 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: gave me like a bit of permission to be a 101 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: lot more, a lot more expressive than I have ever been. 102 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: Do people say that to you a lot? Like? Is 103 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: that the kind of what kind of feedback do you 104 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: get from people who because your followers are very loyal, 105 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: what kind of feedback do you get from folks? I 106 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: get that quite a bit. And I think originally, I, 107 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, my Instagram started off before I would post 108 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: my own writing. It started off as a way of 109 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: sharing quotes and emotions and feelings that I had through 110 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: other writers and poets and styles and things like that 111 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: with other people things that I enjoy, which is what 112 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: a social media platform should be. Then when it changed 113 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: into my writing, it became more about me creating a 114 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: safe space for what I enjoy, but allowing others to 115 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: come and meet me in that safe space for what 116 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: they also enjoy too. So when you say that, I think, 117 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad, Well, I'm grateful that I was able to 118 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: create a safe space for you to feel comfortable to 119 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: enjoy those things without the fear of being judged on them. 120 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: Do you refer to yourself as sex positive? Is that 121 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: even a thing or is that just something that we 122 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: talk about in the United States? I never know. Is 123 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: sex positivity like a label that you would use for 124 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: yourself or your writing. It's not one that i'd use 125 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: for myself for my writing. I think that's something that's 126 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: been ingrained into me quite naturally, so I don't really 127 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: ever put a label on it. But I understand how 128 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: people would use it, and I think it's a good 129 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: thing to promote. So yeah, I mean, but it's not 130 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: something that I would put a label on my writing. 131 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: You know I think that, and you tell me because 132 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: I've only ever visited I've only ever visited the UK 133 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: a handful of times. In the United States, like there 134 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: is a real level of fear as it pertains to sex. 135 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: We don't want to educate kids in school properly about 136 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: their bodies, about about even the idea of what it 137 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 1: means to be to have safe sex, to be in 138 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,599 Speaker 1: safe sexual environments, to have a good relationship with yourself 139 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,599 Speaker 1: as well as with others, right a level of respect 140 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: that you have for yourself and you and for your body, 141 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: and you know who you allow enter it and connect 142 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: with it. We don't have those conversations because we have 143 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: a very strong religious sex here that while we talk 144 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: about having a separation between church and state, we really 145 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: do not. It is very much a blurred line. And 146 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: so the idea of the label of sex positivity I 147 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: think has in many ways wanted to push against the 148 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: nose that we have all grown up with. And no, 149 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: you can't do this, No you can't act like this. No, 150 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: if you're a woman especially, you cannot enjoy this, and 151 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: you especially can't talk about enjoying different aspects of sex, 152 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: of your body and asking you know your partner for 153 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: these things right, which is why when we do these studies, 154 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: a majority of women have said I've never had an orgasm, 155 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: or a majority of people are like, I'm you know, 156 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: only thirty percent happy with my sex life right now? 157 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: Is that the state? Yeah? Is that the same in 158 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: the UK? Or what are your thoughts? It's pretty similar, 159 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: I would say. I mean, I grew up in My 160 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: parents are both Indian and they're both immigrants. You know, 161 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: they grew up sex was kind of like a taboo thing. 162 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: I was never educated on sex grow not. It was 163 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: very much kind of that was a lot of stigmas 164 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: behind it. I've got two sisters, you know, same kind 165 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: of thing. And as I've grown up, I've realized that 166 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: I think you're right, people need to be educated way 167 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: more from a younger age to kind of get rid 168 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: of those stigmas behind that, especially in ethnic minorities where 169 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,479 Speaker 1: it's quite a quite a prominent thing for many families, 170 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: And especially in regards to what you were saying earlier 171 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: about sex in general, I think sound pleasuring as well. 172 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: It's never really talked about it, and it's always such 173 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: a such a kind of like taboo thing like masturbation. 174 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: Masturbation should be talked about way more because it's something 175 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: that you know, practically everyone does. M did you grow 176 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: up in India or did your parents move from India 177 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: to the UK and you grew up mostly in the UK. 178 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: I grew up in the UK. So my dad is Indian, 179 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: but he was born in Kenya and he moved to 180 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: England in the sixties. And the same with my mom. 181 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: She goes from India but moved to England in the 182 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: sixties two. So I was bomb here. So I don't 183 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: really hold all of that kind of cultural stigmas and 184 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: vomues and all that kind of stuff. So I can't 185 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: really put myself in their shoes. I can only really 186 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: be empathetic to, how, you know, to their own upbringings 187 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: and what has molded them as people. But I think 188 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: moving forward, we should really consider how we impact, you know, 189 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: our own children and their children with how we regard sex. Yeah, 190 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: I just you know, there is just so much stigma, right. 191 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: I don't think that people realize it until they get 192 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: into their own sexual relationships, like how much what they 193 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: were taught or what they weren't taught right, like what 194 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: they weren't told, what conversations weren't allowed to be had, 195 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: or they knew that I can't really ask these questions 196 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: and how that affects people um grow as they as 197 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: they go into adulthood. You know, you you talk about 198 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: like pleasure and you talk about masturbation in a way 199 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: that there you know, there is this really interesting episode 200 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: of a series on Netflix. I don't know if you've 201 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: seen it. I can't stand Gwyneth Paltrow, but she has 202 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 1: she has this. She had this really great show on 203 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: Netflix about her website called Goop, and in one of 204 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: the and yeah, and one of the episodes, she brought 205 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: on this sex therapist of sorts and woman is now 206 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: like in her late seventies. She lives in New York 207 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: City and teaches women like how to masturbate and has 208 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: these full like sessions where you know, women are naked. 209 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how you do this in 210 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: COVID now, but the whole idea was to really be 211 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: able to explore your body, look at your body, like 212 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: love your body for what it is and now what 213 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: we want to turn it into. And I think that 214 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: in so many ways, like she was having this conversation, 215 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: and I would love your thoughts about how pornography has 216 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: distorted how people how people see themselves because they're looking 217 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: out at these very well manicured bodies and body parts 218 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: and then looking at themselves as if there's something wrong, 219 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: like you know, and again I'm going to speak from 220 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: assists woman's perspective of looking at your body and feeling 221 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: like it is filled with problems because you're looking at 222 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: this projection, this ideal through a male gaze of what 223 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: a woman's body is supposed to look like. What are 224 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: your thoughts about that and how pornography, While it opened 225 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: some doors, I think that it restricts people in a 226 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: lot of other ways too. Yeah. I think I think 227 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: Paul is one of those things where you could you 228 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: could use it every now and again and enjoy it, 229 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: and it could be a great thing, you know what, 230 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: you'd learn what you're with a partner and both enjoy it. 231 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: But if you abuse that, like most things that you 232 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: know too much, is going to be bad for you. 233 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: I wrote an article on on pawn a while back. 234 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: The more that you watch pawn and the more addicted 235 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: you've become to it, the more you rely on pawn 236 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: to kind of ejaculate, an orgasm and things like that, 237 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: and your body chemistry actually changes you rely on the 238 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: pawn so much so in that sense, it could be bad. 239 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: And in regards to image, I think, yeah, like self image, 240 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: we're flooded with without throwing any statistics out there, we're 241 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: flooded with constantly have an anxiety about how we look 242 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: and how everyone else perceives us, whether it's through social media, 243 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: whether it's through physical interactions. But I think pawn just 244 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: adds a whole extra layer on top in an area 245 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: where we're already feeling a little bit fragile. So yeah, 246 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: I think for men and women, for both sides of 247 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: that coin. Yeah, I just yeah, I think that you know. 248 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: But to your point, like with most things, right, if 249 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: you overdo it, it can be detrimental. Most things should 250 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: be used as like an enhancer or a sprinkling right 251 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: of seasoning, as opposed to dumping the entire thing of 252 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: salt you know, or sugar in you know, in your meal. 253 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: It changes the molecular makeup of it. I think that 254 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: you know also about your work, and then I want 255 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: to transition kind of to where things are now and 256 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: how you're feeling and how you're expressing that through through 257 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: your writing. One of the things I also admire so 258 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: much is the imagery that you evoke. It's so beautiful. 259 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: And I say that for myself because there's something about 260 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: Instagram right obviously, where it's image, image, image, image, Right, 261 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: everybody's thrown up their lives. You know, their their outfits 262 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: of the day, their makeup tutorial, everything, their breakfast, um, nothing. 263 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't require any imagination. It doesn't require me to 264 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: paint the picture because you're showing me literally the picture 265 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: and what are your what are your feelings about kind 266 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: of about the Instagram platform and how you've been able 267 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: to use it and create this elegant, gorgeous, sexy, raw 268 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: images of sex of sexuality with just black words on 269 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: a white screen, without having to show the acts or 270 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: show anything. But you're creating the image without the image. Yeah, 271 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: I think for me, I wanted to tell my experience, 272 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: but I so with the go back to the way 273 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: that it looks. I wanted to keep it super simple. 274 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to keep the aesthetic simple, and I wanted 275 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: it to be simple for a reason, to kind of 276 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: reinforce that point that people should paint, use their imagination 277 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: to paint that experience that I've had with themselves, so 278 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: they're not It's not like watching poem where you watch 279 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: me do that thing. You know, you put yourself in 280 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: those shoes. You're having that experience to yourself. You'll let 281 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: your mind wander and enjoy that for you, the imagery 282 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: that you're able to create with the work that you 283 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: put out on Instagram and being able to utilize a 284 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: platform that is about showcasing me, me, me, but you're 285 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: able to allow us to put ourselves in there. I 286 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: want to transition for a bit to talk about the 287 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: current moment. Where are you located right now during this pandemic. 288 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: I'm in England at the moment, so I'm in a 289 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: city called Commentary. It's about two hours away from London. 290 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: How have things been during this time? The quarantine was 291 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: a little bit eerie for that time. The protests, I 292 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: haven't seen any protests around here. The closest protest, I 293 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: would say would be London. I've seen protests in Liverpool, 294 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: which is not too far from here, but I haven't 295 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: heard of any writing in it. And I think the 296 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,239 Speaker 1: closest writing to here would be Paris as far as 297 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: I know, which it looks pretty it's pretty bad over there. Yeah, 298 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: I have to say that living here and watch it, 299 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: yeah in Brooklyn, and watching watching people around the globe 300 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: take to the streets on our behalf has been extraordinary. 301 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: You know, as a as a black queer woman in 302 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: the United States, it is not easy to exist here. 303 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: And I'm fortunate and a lot of you know, in 304 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: a lot of different ways, and I have, you know, 305 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: my own sets of privilege. But I will say that 306 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: the world recognizing black people, recognizing our lives in a 307 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: way that we've never seen, has honestly has brought tears 308 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: to my eyes. It has really been nothing short of extraordinary. 309 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: And I know that in the UK, you know, as 310 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: well as in Paris and all you know places around 311 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: the globe, they have their own, you know, issues with racism. 312 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: I've I've watched so many documentaries about uh like particularly 313 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: in you know, in France and the way that people 314 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: from Africa are treated there. And I you know, we 315 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: know that the desire breaks it in the you know, 316 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: not wanting to embrace immigrants in the same way that 317 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: you know, the current occupant of our white house is 318 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: a complete and total racist and so, you know, how 319 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: does that, how does the current moment, how is it 320 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: affecting your work and what you're putting out there and 321 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: kind of the energy that you're putting out. I think 322 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: I've taken for the past For the past week, I've 323 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: kind of taken marvel collective period of you know, I 324 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: don't really want to post things that I would normally 325 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: post because I feel like I should be posting about 326 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, black people around the world and people of 327 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: color around the world that I've been suffering for a 328 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: long time. So I think, but I think my the 329 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: way that I want to put my energy out there 330 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: is to not focus on the writing itself, but focus 331 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: on the healing aspect for people. So I think I've 332 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: been throwing that out there a little bit, and I've 333 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 1: been focusing in my stories. I've been put in you know, 334 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: few bits of art. And there was a lady that 335 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: did a great speech in Brooklyn that I loved that 336 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: kind of like that touched me quite a lot. Desire. Desire. 337 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: I can't remember a stenning. Oh. I mean, I've seen 338 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: so many videos and I have been reposting a lot 339 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: of things myself. Yeah, I think it's a it's an 340 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: extraordinary time that we're living in. And what I realized too, 341 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: particularly with the first pandemic that of the coronavirus, is 342 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: how much yearning I have personally for connection. Right, Like, 343 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm a complete and total extrovert, and so having just 344 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: been you know, around family, not having the connection with friends, 345 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: not even being able to have like physical connection hugs 346 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: and touches and all of those things, I didn't realize 347 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: how how like traumatic it would be. Sure, yeah, you know, yeah, sorry, no, no, 348 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: no please. I think people, a lot of people hadn't 349 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: realized until now that how much they rely on communities 350 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: and social interaction and just like having people around I 351 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: think is a big thing. You know, I feel like 352 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: a lot. I've spoken to a lot friends that I 353 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: wouldn't speak to, you know, we speak on an art 354 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: every few months. But over the quarantine, people have checked 355 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: in with me, which I thought was really lovely. And 356 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: I've checked in with other people. But I think you've 357 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: read Whore. The real ones are when you realize, you know, 358 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: when the ship hits the fan m M, which is 359 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: what has happened. Yeah, this shit is it? Every fan 360 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: I think that that's right, and I, you know, I 361 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: also appreciate the fact that everybody is dealing, you know, 362 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: with with with the trauma of this moment in their 363 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: own way. Right then you think that people never really 364 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: got a break either. It went from one thing straight 365 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: onto Yeah, you know, I'm not really sure what's coming 366 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: for us in June, whether it's like an Indian invasion 367 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: or don't say that, don't say it. It could it 368 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: could happen. Like I put nothing past the universe at 369 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: this particular time, and I'm not trying to attempt anybody's 370 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: face unless they're trying to take us out of here 371 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: to somewhat blaze nicer with the better environment. That's the thing. 372 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: It's been such a great year for awareness overall so far, 373 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: even though you know, we've been kind of it was 374 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: two months that we were locked in our own houses. 375 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: Isn't going to really do anything and socially interact. But 376 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: I think people have kind of grown from this experience, 377 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: and people have grown from this movement as well at 378 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: the same time. So my hope is that you know, 379 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: we people do learn, right, I hope, Yeah, I pray 380 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: that people do learn. I pray that you know, when 381 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: we all re enter right, and not just obviously through 382 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: the activism that is happening, the uprisings that are happening, 383 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: but when we do re enter that we can reimagine 384 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: right the world in the way that it should be. 385 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: There is this desperate desire to go back to quote 386 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: unquote normal. And I'm like, if normal was so good, 387 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: things wouldn't be so fucked up now, right Like, if 388 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: normal had been a place of solace, then we wouldn't 389 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: be in the position that we're in now. I don't 390 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: think things will ever go back to what we thought 391 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: was normality before the world has kind of changed. Everyone's 392 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of changed. So, but I mean, how would you 393 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: see the future after this? You know what I am doing, 394 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: and I can only speak to what I am doing is, 395 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, I want to deepen the connections that I have, 396 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: and I want to deepen the responsibility that I feel, 397 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: right like, I feel a deep responsibility in the work 398 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: that I do to tell the truth, no matter how 399 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: uncomfortable it makes people. I feel a deep responsibility to 400 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: talk about injustices and all of them, to talk about 401 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, had we been caring for 402 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: the environment in the right way, the coronavirus outbreak wouldn't 403 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: have happened, Like there are so many factors of climate change, 404 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: or the way that we've abused the environment, the way 405 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: that we abuse people. That if we had more intentionality 406 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: in our lives and you start with your own networks 407 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: and circles and allow that to branch out, Like, that's 408 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: what I want, That's what I hope for the future. 409 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: But that's certainly what I'm going to be really mindful of, 410 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: and just in general that mindfulness, right, because we we 411 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: we have just kind of been floating out there in 412 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: the world without being mindful of how we're all connected, 413 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: without being mindful and appreciative and having gratitude for everything 414 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: that we're able to do. Yeah, I think a lot 415 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 1: of people have been living in this kind of cream, 416 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: the cream on top, like, you know, life's great, going 417 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: away on a trip, post about it on social media, 418 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: you know, meeting at great places. You know, I've got 419 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: like a big following or I'm getting a big following, 420 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: and that's you know, the only kind of things that 421 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: they cared about caring about. And I'm not like making 422 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: a blanket statement for everyone. I'm just saying certain people 423 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: will think and like that it was just kind of 424 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: like image and money and you know, going on trips 425 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: and quite a materialistic view of the world. Maybe they 426 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: go to yoga a few times a week and they 427 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: think that that's in a work, that's spiritual work, you know, 428 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: that's healing in reality, I mean, you know, you've got 429 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: to You've got to crawl through the ship if you 430 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: want to heal. So that's what it takes. And I 431 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: think we're starting to see that now people are realizing 432 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: how bad things were and are being more mindful of 433 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: other people too, like, oh, wow, you really had it 434 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: ship and I didn't notice because I was just thinking 435 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: about my world and my life. So yeah, I think 436 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: that there needs to be a lot more self lessness. 437 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, in many ways, both 438 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: of the pandemics, both the coronavirus, both of that of 439 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: racism and consistent injustice is about people in oring right 440 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: what was right in front of them, because oh it 441 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: doesn't matter right. Like I keep talking about the coronavirus, 442 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: that it requires deep empathy because even if you are healthy, right, 443 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: even if oh I don't have why can't I do 444 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: what I want to do? It's not about you, it's 445 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: about what you could potentially do harm to other people, right, Yeah, 446 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: And it's the same thing. It's the same thing with 447 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: injustice and rabid racism, right like, oh, it doesn't affect 448 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: you personally, so you don't have to give a fuck, 449 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: but like it actually does. It actually is affecting you, 450 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: and you can't look the other way. And I think 451 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: that's people are starting to realize that now, like it's 452 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: so in your face that you can't really turn away 453 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: from it. And also I read as Stephen Bartlett, I 454 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: think is I put a post on my story the 455 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: other yesterday and he wrote about that you shouldn't really 456 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: feel shame about not being able to post something about 457 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: it if you're not ready to post stuff about it. 458 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it takes people time to process what's going 459 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: on before they're able to actually put anything out into 460 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: the world, which I think that was in regards to 461 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: the Black squares getting a lot of flack and just 462 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: you know, people that have stayed quiet. I've noticed that 463 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: social media has been a little bit quiet the last 464 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: couple of days. Yeah, And you know, and I did 465 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: my own video about the black tiles because I said, 466 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: you know there's a there's a sense of apathy. I 467 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: don't want people to feel like you do this one 468 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: thing and then that's what solidarity looks like. It isn't right. 469 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: If you want to take a moment and you want 470 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: to you know, whether it's destruction that you're seeing in 471 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: another nation, you decide, okay, social media, we have a 472 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: filter for that and I'm going to post that and 473 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: that means that I care. Right, It's just like, what 474 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: what is the action that you're putting behind that image? 475 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: And that is you know, and that is what I 476 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: offer to people. And it's not to say you don't 477 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: need to say something if you're not ready to say something, 478 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: but understand that this the moment that we're in, right This, 479 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: this the friction that we're living in that is producing 480 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: the change that is necessary requires action. It requires action 481 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: from all of us and a consistency that we've never 482 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: had before. And so I urge people in that way, 483 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: in whatever space it is that they occupy, in whatever 484 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: platforms it is, that they have to be able to 485 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,479 Speaker 1: figure out what action they can do and what they 486 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: can stick with. Uh A new before I let you go, 487 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: The question that I ask to people on PM mood. 488 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: The last question that I asked to folks is how 489 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: do you get in the mood to change the world? 490 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: How do you? How do you? How? You know? And 491 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: it's it's you know. What I love about this question 492 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: is that it's so different for so it's so different 493 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: everybody's responses or so different, and so, yes, how do 494 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: you get in the mood to change the world. I 495 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: think if I was actively doing it or inactively doing it, 496 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: I guess get in the mood to change the world 497 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: would be going back to going through some shit first. 498 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: I think kind of caught me off God with that question. 499 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: That's okay, that's okay, But yeah, I would say going 500 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: through some shit and also finding something that's dear to me. Yeah. Look, 501 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: I you know, nothing moves us then sometimes our own pain. 502 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: My mother always says she's a yogi, and she always says, 503 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: you need to feel it, Danielle, you just need to 504 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: feel it first before you can before you can change it. 505 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: And so I will interpret the you have to go 506 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: you go through some ship, which means that you're like 507 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: feeling all of the feelings and honoring all of those feelings. 508 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: And I think that that's the first step to doing 509 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: to taking anything, to doing anything to change the world 510 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: is first acknowledging how you're feeling about it. Definitely, I 511 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: am so happy that we did this. Folks. If you 512 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: are not following a nup on social media, he is 513 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: at nupe face n oop f ace, and I promise 514 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: you you will not be disappointed. And thank you so 515 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: much for taking the time to join me on PM mood. 516 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: And I hope that you stay safe, that you stay healthy, 517 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: and I will I will see you in social media 518 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: as I do. Okay, thank you, thank you, thanks for 519 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: listening to this week's PM Mood. My political podcast, Woke 520 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: a f Daily is on Patreon for just five dollars 521 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: a month. That's five new hour long shows every week 522 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: for just five dollars a month month. Join the conversation 523 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: now at patreon dot com slash woke AF and you 524 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: can continue listening to PM mood every week absolutely free. 525 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: Now more than ever, we see the importance of independent media, 526 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: So thank you for your support and as always, stay 527 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: in the PM mood to change the world.