1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and I love all things tech and 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: today is a Friday, so it is time for another 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: tech Stuff classic episode. This episode originally published on February 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen. It is titled tech Stuff is Caught 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: in a Tractor Beam. Lauren Vogelbaum and I sat down 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: to talk about the technology of tractor beams. Is it 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: realistic in what ways? Is it realistic versus unrealistic? How 11 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: might it actually work? And would it be remarkably different 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: from the way it's depicted in science fiction films. I 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoy it, So let's sit back and 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: listen to this classic episode tractor Beam, tractor beams. Yes, Yeah, 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: this is This was something that Lauren had suggested because 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: she saw an item in the news, and at the time, 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: I would imagine Lauren had no idea how incredibly complex 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: a topic this would turn out to be. Ye, As 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: it turns out, particle physics is not simple necessarily, but 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: we're gonna tackle it anyway. We are We are indeed, 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: because you know what, we've watched a lot of star 22 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: Trek between the two of us. We have faith in ourselves. 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about what a tractor beam is, 24 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: especially in that realm of science fiction, because I think 25 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: that's where most people have encountered the original idea, right sure, 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: and especially since tractor beams do not exist as such 27 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: in three dimensions in the real world yet, not on 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: the macro level anyway, right, not not nothing that you 29 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: could see with your own two eyeballs. Right. So essentially 30 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: it's a intergalactic tow truck kind of thing. Yes, a 31 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: beam of light that can be used to pull objects 32 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: towards the source of that light. Yeah, which is that's 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: pretty phenomenal because, as we understand in physics, light does 34 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: in fact exert a pressure time push stuff. Kepler said 35 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: that Yep, exactly, yep, yep Kepler. Kepler observed this, and 36 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: in fact it serves as the basis for uh futuristic 37 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: technologies such as sun sales. Similar sales. These would be 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: enormous sales, literally sales that you would extend from a 39 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: spacecraft and allow sunlight to press against the sale and 40 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: thus propelled the StarCraft because you're talking about being in 41 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: an environment where there's no there's no gravity that's affecting 42 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: you apart from well, I mean, they're gonna have gravity 43 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: within the Solar System, but you're not working like trying 44 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 1: to escape gravity. At that point. You're actually already out 45 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: in space, so you're not having to worry as much 46 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: about things like friction and gravity. So smaller forces, for example, 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: photons can so so to have a kind of light 48 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: that would be able to trap an object and even 49 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: pull it in is sort of counterintuitive based upon the 50 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: knowledge that photons can push stuff away. So we've seen 51 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: tractor beams used in lots of different science fiction you. 52 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: Star Trek, of course, is one of the big examples. Yeah. 53 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: The first reference was actually in The Skylark of Space, 54 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: which was a drama by Et Smith, originally serialized in 55 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: n and published as a novel in nine. Wow, I 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 1: did not know that. I do know that it's used 57 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: in Star Trek quite a bit. There are two things 58 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: that you have to remember about Star Trek tractor beams. 59 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: They can pull just about anything anywhere, and if you 60 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: reverse the polarity, you can turn it into a weapon. Well, 61 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: reversing the polarity, as we all know, is how you 62 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: do things in Star Trek. Yeah, I was explaining earlier. 63 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: It is the have you tried turning it off and 64 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: on again approach in Star Trek. If if it's something's 65 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: not working, reverse the polarity and then it works. Uh. 66 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: And then, of course in Star Wars it was used. 67 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: The Death Star catches the Millennium Falcon in a tractor 68 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: beam and a series of tractor beans, a whole connexus 69 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: of tractor being right, and pulls it back into the 70 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: Death Star so that the Millenium Falcon cannot make its 71 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: daring escape. This, of course allows dar Vader to face 72 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: off against Obi one Kenobi, and I could go on, 73 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: but that's not what this episode is about. Also, I 74 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: suspect that a few of our listeners have seen Star Wars, 75 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: maybe maybe one or two. Episode four is amazing. If 76 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: you have not seen it, you need to go check 77 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: it out. But anyway, yeah, so, so science fiction is 78 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 1: one of those things that is a really useful tool 79 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: for storytellers. Uh. If they have a story about a 80 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: ship encountering some sort of wreck or other kind of 81 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: of body out in space, it needs to be pulled away. 82 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: And the nice thing is is that we've got scientists 83 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: here on Earth who are saying, hey, how can we 84 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: do this science fiction thing for reels right? Knowing how 85 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: light behaves and uh, and maybe finding new ways to 86 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: make light behave in perhaps an unexpected fashion. Well, I 87 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: suspect that, in fact, Star Trek used some actual research 88 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: that was going on in the nineteen sixties as a 89 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: basis for their tractor beam, because according according to the 90 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: Star Trek universe, the way that their tractor beam works 91 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: is it's actually WILLI a graviton force beam and I 92 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: just made little quote marks in the air for the 93 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: benefit of nobody really, so that was weird. Gravitons are 94 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:13,559 Speaker 1: hypothetical particles that that essentially mediate the force of gravity. Uh. 95 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: They're hypothetical because we have not observed an actual graviton. 96 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: We don't know how we would We don't we know 97 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: that in order for our quantum model of the universe 98 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: to make sense, we need something like a graviton to 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: exist to explain the force of gravity. There are four 100 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: fundamental forces in the universe. There's strong, nuclear, weak, nuclear, 101 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: electro magnetic, and gravity. Out of those, gravity is the weakest, 102 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: but it's also the one that we cannot easily incorporate 103 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: into the quantum model of the physics. Right, It's sort 104 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: of assumed by Einstein's general theory of relativity that gravitational 105 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: waves are a thing that exists, that ripples in the 106 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: spacetime continuum, caused by very large moving objects, particularly, but 107 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: nobody has detected these. So so really the way we 108 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: observe this is through the force of gravity. I mean, 109 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: that's that's that's we can see the outcome just exactly so. 110 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: And to explain to you guys how weak gravity is 111 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: in comparison to the other forces, here's a very simple, 112 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: uh experiment anyone can do anyone who has access to 113 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: a comb and a balloon. So let's say you've got, 114 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, get a balloon. You just inflate the balloon 115 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: with oxygen. Don't do helium because that will negate the 116 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: results of this test. Check. So oxygen inflated balloon, you 117 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: sat down on a table. Gravity is pulling the balloon downward. 118 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: I am oversimplifying here, so physicists please don't don't write 119 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: in and complain. But the balloon is held to the 120 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: table in part due to friction, but also in part 121 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: due to gravity. If you were to take your comb 122 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: and rub it against say a sweater, and get build 123 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: up some stack electricity on the comb, and then touch 124 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: the comb to the balloon and lift, you would see 125 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: that the stag electricity that was generated while you were 126 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: rubbing the comb against your your sweater would be enough 127 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: to attract the balloon and lifted off the table. That 128 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: means that the any amount of electromatic force, the static 129 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: is stronger than the gravity. And the gravity, yeah, You've 130 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: got an entire planet beneath you that is got this 131 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: very strong gravitational pull, strong in comparison to other things 132 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: that we directly observe throughout the day, and yet it 133 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: is dwarfed by strong enough Yeah, strong enough to pull 134 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: a bowling ball from the top of tower. Right but 135 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: right so, and and gravity just so. To complete the 136 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: whole picture here, it depends on two things. It depends 137 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: on really you have to have two different bodies, but 138 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: it depends on the body's mass and their distance from 139 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: one another. But they do exert gravity, a gravitational pull 140 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: against each other. So, for instance, I have a cup 141 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: of tea in front of me, I am exerting a 142 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: very tiny gravitational pull on the cup of tea, and 143 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: it is exerting a very tiny gravitational poll on me. 144 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: Now this is dwarfed by the fact that I'm also 145 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: on the planet Earth and that the Earth is exerting 146 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: gravitational force on both of you. Right, So I you know, 147 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: I can't observe this. I don't really, I'm not aware 148 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: of it in any way. But that's that's yeah. So 149 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: keeping that in mind, one easy, relatively easy way of 150 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: having a tractor beam like effect, even though you wouldn't 151 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: be beaming anything, is to use the gravity of one 152 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: object to influence the movement of another object. Now, this 153 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: is something that we've talked about before on tech stuff, 154 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: when we were chatting about could an asteroid destroy the 155 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: Earth if if, if some space agency. I was gonna 156 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: say NASA because that's the one that I'm most familiar with. 157 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: But if NASA were too identified that an asteroid twenty 158 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: years away has the the uh the chance potential to yeah, 159 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: that would be a bad thing. Yes, because we all 160 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: learned in the documentary arm Again, Yes, that wonderful documentary 161 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: that taught me that Steve bu Simmy is a better 162 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: singer than Ben affleck Uh, which I had no way 163 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: of knowing until I saw that anyway that one way 164 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: of potentially deflecting the asteroid would be to send a 165 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: spacecraft up so that you move the spacecraft so it's 166 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: close enough to the asteroid so that they are are 167 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: pulling one another with a gravitational pull, and then you 168 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: use thrusters with the spacecraft to just very slowly push 169 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: just not really really it's pull. You're yeah, you're pulling 170 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: the asteroid because as you move the spacecraft away, the 171 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: gravitational pull makes the asteroid move with it, and all 172 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: you have to do is move it. The further out 173 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: you go from Earth, the less you need to move 174 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: the asteroids so that it has it misses the Earth right, 175 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: because you're talking about angles, So a couple of degrees 176 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: of difference way the way way the heck out in 177 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: space make enough difference to not kill everything on it, right, 178 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: it'll miss the planet in hirely, So that's the idea. 179 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: So that's kind of like a tractor beam in the 180 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: sense that you're using an object to tow another object, 181 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: in this case objects that are in space, but you're 182 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: not actually shooting a beam of anything. Right. However, Yeah, 183 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: it's not it's not made of light. It doesn't do 184 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: that cool visual effect that you have a sound effect, 185 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: which obviously that would not not anything in space anyway. Sure, 186 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: but hey, why why should we start criticizing Now that's 187 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: a that's a whole different episode. Um. And So, in 188 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, people were really excited about detecting gravitational waves, 189 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: and a few people in fact, suggested that we might 190 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: make a gravity laser. A couple of people, Helper and Laurent, 191 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: proposed that this could be called a gazer, which I 192 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: think is a terrific word. Yeah, and I think means 193 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: something entirely different. These are modern times, I think, Yeah, 194 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: I think I agree with you. I think at this 195 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: point the scientific community would say, can we ya? Um. 196 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: They proposed that we could vibrate some types of electric 197 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: crystals and create a whole thing. And but that's it's 198 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: never really come to fruition because the above re we 199 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: have never discovered gravitons, We have never measured gravitational waves. 200 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: Right for us to be able to create an object 201 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: that would use gravitons to to make a tractor being 202 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: we first sort of need to prove that gravitons in 203 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: fact exist, because again they're hypothetical right now. It's sort 204 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: of like the Higgs boson, right The Higgs boson was 205 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: a theoretical particle that physicists said, for our understanding of 206 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: the universe to make sense, we need this thing to 207 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: exist to explain why matter has mass, same sort of thing. 208 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: In order for our understanding of gravity to make sense, 209 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: within the within the framework that we have of our 210 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: knowledge of the universe, knowing that we are by our 211 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: very nature limited in our understanding, a graviton needs to 212 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: exist for that model to really make sense. So we're 213 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: talking about mathematically, yes, these things to exist, but in reality, 214 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: we just haven't tracked it down yet. So if we 215 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: ever do, maybe we can make some sort of technology 216 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: that can take advantage of that. But until then, until then, 217 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: maybe no gravitational lasers. Yeah, I personally hope that we 218 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: do crack that nut, because that would be I mean, 219 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: it would be an incredibly useful tool, and not just 220 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: in the context of space exploration. That's the one that 221 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: we all think about because again in science fiction, that 222 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: tends to be where tractor beams come into play. But 223 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: as it turns out, tractor beams can have a really 224 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: useful uh well in implementation here on Earth in space 225 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: on the planet, and I mean moving things is hard, 226 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: they're heavy, or even if they're or they're really small. 227 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: And so yeah, we'll talk a bit in a second 228 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: all about how some scientists are making micro versions of 229 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: tractor beams here on Earth and what those could be 230 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: used for. But first let's take a moment to thank 231 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: our sponsor for this episode, and now back to the show. 232 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: All right, so we've talked about using gravity to create 233 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: a tractor beam like effect, or possibly even using gravitons, 234 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: assuming we ever understand them. But that's not the only 235 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: way scientists are looking into creating a tractor beam like device. 236 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: There's actually been quite a bit of news over the 237 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: last decade about scientists using various ways of manipulating light 238 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: to pull an object as opposed to push it away. Right, 239 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: Starting way back in six people started playing with what's 240 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: called optical tweezers, which are lasers that are capable of 241 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: manipulating molecules and moving them with precision. And now this 242 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: is not pulling a particle towards the light source, so 243 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: it's not technically a tractor beam, right, but it is. 244 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: It is a method of manipulating microscopic particles very precisely. 245 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: So if you're thinking about a plane like an X 246 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: and Y axis, you could move particles within the X 247 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: and y axis, but you're not moving them along the 248 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: Z axis. That would be you know, from the source 249 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: of light to wherever the particle is. So in relation 250 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: to the source of light, the particle would not get 251 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: closer further away, but you could trap it and move 252 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: it within that X Y plane. That's that's my understanding. Yeah, yeah, 253 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: and these are well I I that's my understanding as well. 254 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: These these laser beams that are being used for this 255 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: have a Gaussian intensity profiles, which means that they're brighter 256 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: in the center than they are at the edges. Right. 257 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: A Gaussian distribution is a normal distribution, and it can 258 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: be for anything from lasers to really you can even 259 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: see this in social sciences where you do a survey 260 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: and you have a Bell curve that shows a normal 261 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: distribution that's essentially a Gaussian distribution. So, Okay, light has momentum, right, right, 262 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: and so when it hits an object, the object bends 263 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: the light which changes its momentum, and thus the object 264 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: is pushed back equally and oppositely by the light. Okay, 265 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: I see, so the lights momentum has changed. The object's 266 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: momentum is also changed correct according to the conservation of momentum, 267 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: which you can see in normal, non microscopic classic physics. Right. 268 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: And so the Gaussian beam is important because if the 269 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: sample gets off center in the beam, the weaker light 270 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: at the edges is bending around the object and pushing 271 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: it out, but the stronger lighted center is bending around 272 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: it and pushing it back in, and the stronger force wins. 273 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: I see. Okay, Yeah, that makes way more sense than 274 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: everything else I read, because everything I read was a 275 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: lot of this. This research that we did for this 276 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: Pathicunar podcast is in is from scientific journals and uh. 277 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: And this is a good point for us to make. 278 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: Lauren and I we're advocates of science education. Absolutely, we 279 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: both love science. That being said, neither of us are scientists, 280 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: and we certainly are not particle physicists. And so when 281 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: you get onto the quantum level, there's a certain level 282 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: of understanding that we are able to achieve. And beyond that, 283 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: this stuff is it is like magic to us. So 284 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: we're going to explain things as best we can, but 285 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: please understand there are subtleties to this that we cannot 286 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: easily explain because we haven't dedicated our lives to understanding 287 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: them exact and by so if we get anything wrong, 288 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: please do right us in Um, we love getting that 289 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: kind of feedback, right, Yeah, No, we definitely want to 290 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: to communicate the correct information as best we can. But uh, 291 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: you know this, this is exciting stuff. So in this case, 292 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: what Laurence talking about is using light to to uh 293 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: to isolate and then manipulate microscopic particles. But at this 294 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: point the stage what we're talking about does not include 295 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: pulling those particles towards the light source. However, we have discovered, 296 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: or rather I should say we predibly smart people have 297 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: discovered ways of using light to act pull things towards 298 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: the source in a bunch of different ways. Actually, um, 299 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: there's one of those is called an optical vortex. Um 300 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: sounds kind of kind of freaky people. The main research 301 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: that I've read from this was from Australian National University 302 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: around so pretty recently, and the the idea of this 303 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: one is that they use a hollow laser beam to 304 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: trap light absorbing particles, and um, they get trapped in 305 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: the center of this laser beam because the heated air 306 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: molecules around them are pushing in on them goutches, so 307 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: they cannot they can't escape the laser beam. They're stuck 308 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: in that little hollow center, in the hollow center in 309 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: the in the the doughnut shaped laguer Gaussian laser beam. Yes, 310 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: that right there, that thing exactly that you just said. Yeah, 311 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: I have the note. I'm so glad that you did 312 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: more research on this because when I read that, my 313 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: eyes kind of glazed over. Yeah. Apparently they were able 314 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: to move particles about one and a half meters in 315 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: the air. Yeah, it's it's really exciting. By they found 316 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: out that by using too concentric hollow lasers, they can 317 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: adjust the brightness of the two of them there by 318 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: heating and cooling the air around the molecules and and 319 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: then therefore have the molecules move up and down as 320 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: they will through this hollow tube of light. Wow. So 321 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: so you're using two different lasers in order to make 322 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: that maintain this kind of movement. That makes sense, I 323 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: understand now. Yeah, I was wondering how that worked beforehand. 324 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, that that totally makes sense. And yeah, and 325 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: these are nanofoam particles that they were using to the 326 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: got transported over a meter and and all of this 327 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: is on the scale again of a very microscopic things. Right. 328 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: That's something that's important and we'll talk a little bit 329 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: more about that when we finish with all the different 330 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: laser methods. But yeah, the methods we're talking about are 331 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: very exciting. Don't get us wrong. They are incredibly exciting, 332 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: particularly in certain very specific implementations like in the medical field. 333 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is all going to be extremely exciting 334 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: for for example, removing bacteria from samples, sorting cells, municially 335 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: manipulating DNA strands is something the optical tweezers have been 336 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: used extensively for, right, so that there there are real 337 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: uses for this. But these are not the same technologies 338 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: that will let us move spacecraft like toe spacecraft away. 339 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about why that is when we get 340 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: a little further in, because there are a couple of 341 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: other laser methods that we need to talk about, right right, Um, 342 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: back back on the kind of sale, the sort of 343 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: solar sale theme that we were discussing earlier. Optical lift 344 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: is another version of of light that can be used 345 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: to do stuff. It's it's actually just a really simple 346 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: analog of aerodynamic lift, which of course is when um 347 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: you create uh uh, how is it? It's higher pressure 348 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: underwing than over awing and therefore letting a plane lift 349 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: off the ground in the game. Before we get any 350 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: further physicists, that's also an oversimplification, and we acknowledge that, yes, 351 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: there's more than geology, there's more than just that when 352 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: it comes to get an airplane off the ground. Also, 353 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: we know all about the other forward momentum and everything else, 354 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: but but that that is the concept of lift. Thank you, 355 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: And so to get slightly fewer angry emails, it's only 356 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 1: because Chris and I received all those emails already, but 357 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: but deservedly so right, oh no, absolutely, yes we love 358 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: negative feedback. But so I nearly spit tea all over 359 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: my laptop. Please don't take that as a as a 360 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: Please don't take Lawrence Lauren's statement as a means to 361 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: send us the most negative feedback ever, because my feelings 362 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: do get hurt, and I apparent you just made a 363 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: complete liar out of me. That you almost snorfing your 364 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: tea completely made me crack up. Sorry about that, excellent, 365 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: But anyway back to optical lift. It's uh. The scientists 366 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: have discovered that that you can take an object with 367 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: a differently shaped top and bottom surface and it will 368 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: experience a lift force when please standing uniform stream of 369 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: light that's fast. This is all blowing my mind because 370 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: before we did this research, I never knew about these 371 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: different properties of light and and it just it really 372 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: stresses to me one amazing universe. This is, you know, 373 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: to to know that things behave on such a different 374 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: level than my previous understanding, and also illustrates quite effectively 375 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: how ignorant I am. But I love to learn, so 376 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: that's okay. Yeah we get we get paid to learn 377 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: this stuff and pass it on to you, which is 378 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: basically the most exciting thing. Um. One of the other 379 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: categories that I ran across were optical conveyors, which are 380 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: really fun. Those are those are the ones that are 381 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: using Bessel beams, and I think I think Jonathan has 382 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: a whole section about this one. Yeah, not a whole section, 383 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: but I can at least tell you what a Bessel 384 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: beam is. Because when I encountered that term, I thought, huh, what, 385 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: what exactly do they mean by Bessel beam. It's a 386 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: specific type of radiation, and that sort of radiation can 387 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: be a laser, it can be electroma, metic, it can 388 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: be acoustic, it could be gravitational. It doesn't really matter 389 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: what the type of radiation is, it's the form it takes. 390 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: And that form is a radiation where the amplitude is 391 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: described by a Bessel function of the first kind. Does 392 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: that mean essentially, it means that as this radiation moves forward, 393 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: it does not diffract in any way. It doesn't diffuse, 394 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: it does not spread out. In other words, it remains concentrated. 395 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: So what we think of that like a laser beam. 396 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: When you shine a laser beam, it doesn't spread out 397 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: like a flashlight does. But this is a very specific 398 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: format of that. And in fact, because actually those those 399 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: laser beams that were that you point at something are 400 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: Gaussian laser beams. That's we discussed there, and so this 401 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: is different is different. This is different. It is it 402 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: is focused, It does not diffract in any way, it 403 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: does not spread out at all. And in fact, one 404 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: a a a feature of a true bessel beam would 405 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: be that if you were to just interrupt part of 406 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: vessel beam. Let's let's imagine that the vessel beam is 407 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: as big around as a pencil, Okay, just for the 408 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: purposes of illustration, and then imagine that you had, uh 409 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: use a sheet of paper and cut a little slit 410 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: in that pencil, and you make the sheet of paper 411 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: interrupt the vessel beam. Right, So you've got the sheet 412 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: of paper that's interrupting half the vessel beam. The other 413 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: half is going beyond the edge of the paper. A 414 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: true vessel beam will heal itself beyond the point of interruption. 415 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: So if I were to interrupt that beam further down 416 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: the beam, it would become whole again. So it would 417 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: be the same diameter as it was um at the 418 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: before a point where you had that interruption. So that's 419 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: an awesome thing about a vessel beam. Now here's the 420 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: here's the caveat. A true vessel beam would require essentially 421 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: unlimited power. Uh. So Dr Doom would want to make one, uh, certainly, 422 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: but none of us would be capable of doing it. 423 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: It's a true vessel beam is effectively impossible for us 424 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: to make. We can make things that approach vessel beams 425 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: and that UH emulate many of its features, but a 426 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: true one is beyond our capability. That is the short 427 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: and sweet definition of vessel beam. And do keep in 428 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: mind we're not just talking lasers. Like I said, it 429 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: could even be acoustic. So you could create a vessel 430 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: beam of acoustic energy and make a noise that could 431 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,719 Speaker 1: be heard perfectly at the destination, no matter how far 432 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: away it was. That that is fascinating, pretty awesome, that's terrific. 433 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: It's Jonathan from again here to once again break up 434 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: the episodes that we can take a quick break. So 435 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: researchers are using these. Specifically, some people at New York University, 436 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: building on research by a Chinese team at the a 437 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: Star Data Storage Institute, I believe in around two thousand eleven, 438 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: two twelve people have been working on using a lens 439 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: to bend and overlap two of these vessel beams um 440 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: thereby creating what I can crudely, crudely describe as kind 441 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: of a Strobe effect that will, Okay, it'll hit the 442 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: front of a particle, and because of that, because it 443 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: can reform around an object, it will reform behind the particle. 444 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: With enough energy that it actually pushes the particle back 445 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: towards the light source. All right, so what's happening is 446 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: the photon is is hitting the particle in such a 447 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: way as to give it a little kick back toward 448 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: the actual source of the photons correct, which is kind 449 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: of crazy. It's awesome. Like there was one point where 450 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: I was reading one of these descriptions and I was thinking, 451 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: the only way I could describe this is if you 452 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: were thinking about having a smaller particles being pushed forward, 453 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: because larger particles are sinking down, so instead of being 454 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: pushed down, they're actually going up. And then the more 455 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: I read about the more I'm like, this is a 456 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: complete misunderstanding of this, and I cannot go with this analogy. 457 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: And that's what I thought. I hope Lauren has got discovered, 458 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: and luckily she did. Yes. I like the physics, but 459 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: physics were always the interesting part to me. I was 460 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 1: always terrible at algebra, but really good at geometry. I 461 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: love classical physics. Quantum physics makes my head hurt. I 462 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: just that's the fun headache. I like the I like 463 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: the quantum physics headache. If better you than me, what's 464 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: that terrific quote. Off. If you're not kind of upset 465 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: by quantum physics, you haven't understood it properly. I think 466 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: all of us haven't understood it properly. I think the 467 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: people who haven't understood it probably the most have the 468 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: biggest headaches. Those are quantum physicists anyway. But then I 469 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: say that as as I you know, every quantum physicist 470 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: interview I've said I've watched tends to include a question 471 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: that's all similar to, but do you really understand what 472 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: it is you're talking about? And the quantum physicist almost 473 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: always says, you know, there's a certain level where I 474 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: don't like. There's certain things that you just say, all right, 475 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: this is how it is, because that's how it is. 476 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: But to be able to answer, I can't. And so it's, 477 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, one of those things you just have to accept. 478 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: And my brain starts to melt out of your ears. Yeah, 479 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of screaming and waving of fists inside 480 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: the craneyde the brain. Yeah. But so the special beaming 481 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: optical conveyor technology might be an interesting practical use for 482 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: it could be to test the tensile strength of cells. 483 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: For example, if if a cell has been infected with malaria. 484 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: It's more rigid than a normal blood cell, and so 485 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: it could be super useful in tiny microscopic medical purposes. 486 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: Similar to another breakthrough that was very recent as of 487 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: the recording of this podcast, we're recording this in early February, 488 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: and there were some publications that we're talking about an 489 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: experiment that had been performed by scientists from Scotland and 490 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: the Czech Republic about using a beam of light with 491 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: a specific geometry to pull particles of polystyrene. And these 492 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: particles are very very small, in fact, beyond microscopic, we're 493 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: talking about nanometers for fos, about four hundred ten nanometers specifically. 494 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: Think most of the particles we've been talking about have 495 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: been on on that scale. Yeah, pretty pretty tiny stuff, 496 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: but fomes and one thousand nanometer particles essentially think about 497 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: tiny spheres of polystyrene that are only a few hundred 498 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: nimeters in diameter. That's essentially what we're talking about here. 499 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: And they found that by uh polarizing the light in 500 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: a particular way, they can manipulate these particles, and in fact, 501 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: not only could they manipulate the particles, but depending upon 502 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: the way they polarized the light, they could selectively manipulate 503 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: particles of a certain size while not affecting particles of 504 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: another size. Yeah, there's a there's a little video of this, 505 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: by the way, in a press release. We'll link it 506 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: somewhere on our on our tech staff media. Yeah, yeah, 507 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: you'll have to take a look at this. It's pretty 508 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: amazing because you think about that, that means that you 509 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: will be able to selectively uh, grip, sort and move 510 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: right particles, so that way you could you could keep 511 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: some undisturbed while you're the ones you're interested in, those 512 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: are the ones you can manipulate and uh and that 513 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: is a huge breakthrough you're talking about just by by 514 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: again changing the nature of the light itself, being able 515 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: to affect very specific sizes of particles and it doesn't 516 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: really matter what the particle is made out of. They 517 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: were using polystyrene in a liquid solution. So again, this 518 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: was another breakthrough was that this was something that could 519 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: work within a liquid, making it very useful for medical purposes. 520 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: So if you wanted to take a blood cell and 521 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: you needed to move certain particles in that blood cell 522 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: out or off to a side so that you could 523 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,239 Speaker 1: either examine them more closely, or perhaps get them out 524 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: of the way so you can examine something else in 525 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: the blood cell more closely. It would be a very 526 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: useful tool. One description that I saw of this said that, 527 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: and and this one in particular. There are a lot 528 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: of very intelligent people have said very ierdite things about 529 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: all of the rest of these forms of tractor beam manipulation, 530 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: and I read them and have said them back to you. 531 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: This one is so new that not that many people 532 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: who are smarter than us have really said that many 533 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: things about it, and so therefore my understanding is tenuous. 534 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: But one explanation that I saw said that they used 535 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: a mirror to bounce the laser beam back across itself, 536 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: interfering with the head on photons and thereby pushing right. 537 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: And the the interesting thing to me was that it 538 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: was through that interference that creates this pulling. It was not, however, 539 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: because you hear mirror and you think, oh, well, all 540 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: they're doing is shooting the photons, bouncing it off the mirror, 541 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: and then the photons hit the particle and then push 542 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: the particle. But that's not what's happened. That's not what's happening. 543 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: It's the it's the interaction of the the oncoming beam 544 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: and the reflected beam that create this pulling motion. And 545 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: that to me is phenomenal because at first I thought, oh, well, 546 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: what they're really doing is just yeah, they're just they're 547 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: just pushing, they're not pulling. But that's not the case. 548 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: That actually is pulling actually the light source they're The 549 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: really fascinating thing about this is that apparently, under certain conditions, 550 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: the objects held by the beam rearranged themselves into a 551 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: structure that made the pull stronger. That's pretty awesome. I 552 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: mean this, this is so mind blowing to me that this, 553 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: this world on the nanoscale is every time I read 554 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: anything about it, it amazes me. It's like, you know, 555 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: the two areas I find the most interesting when it 556 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: comes to exploration are outer space and nanospace because there 557 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: are a lot of parallels, I mean weird parallels between 558 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: outer space and nanospace fractals. Fractals say that that's a 559 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: that is a known quantity. That just make me think 560 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: of the Jonathan Coulton song Mandel brought Set, which is awesome. 561 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: Have you heard that? I do not believe I had. 562 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: I guess what we're doing. After the podcast is over, 563 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: you get to hear a song. Alright, trip, so uh 564 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: we we We alluded to the fact that this is 565 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: stuff that works on a microscopic scale and would not 566 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: translate to macroscopic Yes, and here's the reason why. Yeah, 567 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: the reason why is that all of all of this 568 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: work with lasers. Lasers, of course, um can burn stuff. 569 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: And if you had a big enough laser to move 570 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, the one of the physicists I think mentioned 571 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: a football. I assume that they were meaning a soccer 572 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: ball because they were from Scotland, and that was Thomas Sissmar. 573 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: There you go, um, and it would fry a long 574 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: time before you would move that soccer ball. Yeah. In 575 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: other words, the laser would have to be of such 576 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: an intensity and size as to destroy whatever it was 577 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: you were trying to move. So it might move, but 578 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: only because someone didn't want it to burn down everything else, Right, 579 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: it would be moved by some one else who's saying, 580 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: why do you have this flaming soccer ball in the 581 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: middle of the field. Yeah, that's the that's a problem, obviously, 582 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a it's a non trivial problem 583 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: and I mean, I know it's a non trivial problem 584 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: and it sounds like I'm being silly, but no, it's 585 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: non trivial, and that as far as we are able 586 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: to determine, there's no way to get around that using 587 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: this particular implementation of the tractor beam idea. So this 588 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,719 Speaker 1: would strictly be on the nano and micro scale and 589 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: never get beyond that. That does not mean that we 590 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: won't find some other way of creating a tractor beam. 591 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: We very well made, but it's not going to be 592 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: using these particular methods because obviously we would end up 593 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: destroying whatever it was we were trying to manipulate. So 594 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: we hope, we hope that we will see some of 595 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: that in the future. I hope you guys enjoyed that 596 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: classic episode of tech Stuff. If you have suggestions for 597 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: future episodes, send me an email. The addresses tech stuff 598 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com, or you can draw 599 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: me a line on Facebook or Twitter. 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