1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hey guys, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: This is Alison I don't know, like the science editor 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: at how stuff ricks dot com. And this is Robert Lamb, 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: science writer at how stuff works dot com. And uh 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: it's uh. We're getting into the Halloween season here. And 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things about Halloween, one of my 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: favorite like Halloween costumes, Halloween ideas is, of course the 9 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: mad scientist. Have you gone as a mad scientistic? Oh? Yes, 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: I've gone as mad scientist before any specific man scientists 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: are just kind of general mad scientistic, specific mad scienists. 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: Who I went as Dr Clayton Forester from Mystery Science 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: Theater three thousand excellent? Yeah, he who had? He has 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: one of my my favorite quotes about mad scientists in 15 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: general and mad science. He said it would he was 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: being asked something or you know, there was some complicated 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: issue that came up, and he just responded, it would 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: take a scientist to explain. And I'm simply too mad. 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: But who comes to mind when you think of mad 20 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: science and mad scientists? Um, well, you know, definitely some 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: of the ones that we're going to talk about today, Frankenstein, 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: I would say, Um, perhaps I'm a little ashamed to 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: a meant this, but I will because you know it's 24 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: a podcast and you guys can't see me. But I 25 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: figured that guy from Back to the Future, we ever 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: decide on his name? Um, Dr Holiday, Doc Holiday. No, No, 27 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: you're you're getting your your your your movie is confused. Okay, 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: you're you're you're talking about Doc Hollywood And that was 29 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: you're the guy with a crazy hair. No, No, that 30 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: was Doc Brown, Doc Brown. Yeah, totally mad science. And 31 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: that's yeah, he's a played by Christopher Lloyd. That's a 32 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: great example of a of a cinematic mad scientist, you know, 33 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: because he's into crazy like fringe e science, and he's 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: got the hair, he's got the hair. He's he's not 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: playing by the rules, you know, he's you know, because 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: I believe the thing was he he was getting plutonium 37 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: from um from terrorists or something. It's been a while 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: since I've seen it. But and then ultimately experimenting, you know, 39 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: without like a strict kind of like a scientific method 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: going on. You know, there's not really a method to 41 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: his madness. But is there a method to some of 42 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: our mad scientists madness today there is um and science. 43 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: Is there a method to their madness center science? Well, 44 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: there's there's definitely a method to it. So we're gonna 45 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: talk about two the Big East. Yeah, yeah, two of 46 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: the Big well yeah, certainly one of one of the 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: Big East and then another one that has a lot 48 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: of um uh that that really resonates in American culture 49 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: in the you know, the past couple of decades. But 50 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: but yeah, mad scientists when you when you boil it 51 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: down and when they're not serving as just a plot device, 52 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: they basically embody society's collective fears. And this giving is 53 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: about the advancement of science and how science can be exploited. Alright, 54 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: primal fear of science. Now, sometimes it is just a 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: stock thing, you know, like Dr Clayton Forrester on Mystery 56 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: Science Theater or um let's see the Professor Werner. I 57 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: believe it was called in the movie Twins, Like that 58 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: wasn't really that it wasn't saying anything important just to 59 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: figure out the movie Twins, Yeah, because I mean that's 60 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: that nobody thinks of Twins and was like, yeah, Twins 61 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: totally made some really good points about where we are 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: with our you know, perception of science at the time. No, 63 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: it was just the mad scientist was just there to 64 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: facilitate the running gag that that was. Danny de Vito 65 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: and Arnold Schwarzenegger are brothers and twins. I do have 66 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: that image of them in the white suits right now. 67 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: I wonder if you guys do out there as well. 68 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: And then sometimes they're just stock villains like Lex Luthor 69 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: and you know, the Superman. He eventually became like more 70 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: of a politician. But originally it was like a mad 71 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: scientist or doctor Doom or you know, or anytime that 72 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: somebody's gonna name like Dr Doom or Dr Satan, you know, 73 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: anything like that. You know, it's just like some sort 74 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: of mad scientist situation going on, and it's an excuse 75 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: for like crazy scientific abilities and that our hero has 76 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: to fight. But it was something you concept, this whole 77 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: idea of a mad scientist because if you think about it, 78 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: scientists the words scientists really didn't appear in print m 79 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: at least according to some until eighteen forty. And the 80 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: idea of a mad scientist is also a pretty new idea. Yeah, 81 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: you have to you have to back up a couple 82 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: of decades from from eighteen forty to eighteen eighteen to 83 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: find like the classic example of the mad scientists, the 84 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: one that resonates today, that still like the first thing 85 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: in your mind when you think of mad scientists most 86 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: of the time, and that, of course is Mary Shelley's 87 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: book Frankenstein or the like. The secondary title for this 88 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: was the Modern Prometheus. I never realized that. I never 89 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: realized that was the subtitle or the secondary title of Frankenstein. Yeah, 90 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: it's it's it's easy to look over. Sometimes they don't 91 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: always put it in big print, you know. And the 92 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: and that's the other thing that talking about print, this 93 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: this book has been in in print just continuously since 94 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: eighteen eighteen. That's that's pretty impressive. And as long as 95 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about eighteens, it was written by an eighteen 96 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: year old. Yeah, that's the other Like, you know, as 97 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: as someone who dabbles, you know, well, you know dabbles, right, yeah, right, 98 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: as as a writer, as someone who who writes you know, 99 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: fiction as well. Sometimes it's like you look at this 100 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: and it's like it's this awesome novel and just like 101 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: she was eighteen, which he wrote it, it's it's it's 102 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: amazing and a little infuriating. Yeah. And then there's of 103 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: course the famous story behind her originating Frankenstein. This was 104 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: her her husband, Percy Shelley, the poet, Yeah, and then 105 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: bad romantic poet and then bad boy Lord Byron perhaps 106 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: with his pet bear and his skull that he would 107 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: drink about because he was like the original like bad 108 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: boy of of of literature. Yeah. Yeah, and they were 109 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: all hanging out together and they decided to each try 110 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 1: to ghost story. I remember reading about this in New Yorker. 111 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: They had a really great, um, very long article about 112 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: Mary Shelley and all that stuff. Yeah. And the other 113 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: really interesting thing is that, of course it was published anonymously, 114 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: because ladies shouldn't be writing, and they definitely shouldn't be 115 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, contemplating some of the stuff that comes up 116 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: in Frankenstein. Yeah. When it first came out, it was 117 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: apparently printed anonymously, and they later you know, started putting 118 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: her name on it, and apparently she had a really 119 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: hard time getting anybody to publish it too, Like everybody 120 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: was just kind of like yeah, it's like, like I say, 121 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: how many things from eighteen eighteen are still you know, Um, 122 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, making books laugh the chelse these days. So Prometheus, yes, 123 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: that's important before we even really get into the plot 124 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: of Frankenstein. And I think everybody's more or less familiar 125 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: with the plot. Uh, let's talk about why she included 126 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: Prometheus in the title. You know, you don't do something 127 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: like that unless it means something. Um, Prometheus was a 128 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: Titan back in Greek mythology, Yeah, he was. This was like, 129 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: the Titans were the elder gods. These were the guys 130 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: that used to run the show, and then the Olympian 131 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: gods like Zeus and company, they ended up taking over. 132 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: In fact, Zeus's father was Chronos um and who was 133 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: a Titan, and so he overthrew his father and he 134 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: becomes he becomes the dude and show arch. And but 135 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: the Titans all they kind of remain along, you know, 136 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: around They're still kicking around doing their own thing while 137 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: the Olympians are ruling. So along comes Prometheus, ametheas, what 138 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: does Prometheus do that gets Prometheus was an old rabble rouser. 139 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: Yeah he uh, he's pretty daring rabble rouser, and he 140 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,119 Speaker 1: he defied the gonuts by you guys are all saying 141 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: this under your bath right now. Stealing the secret of 142 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: fire from Zeus and sharing it with the human race, 143 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: and we've kept it ever since. Yeah, but Prometheus, we've 144 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: kept it and it's been great. But Prometheus was totally busted. Yeah, 145 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: he was. And its punishment and they're always some great punishments. 146 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: And in mythology, he was chained to a rock. And 147 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: then every day what happens. The eagle sweeps down and 148 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: eats his liver, and then every night liver grows back. 149 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: And then the next morning, Uh, still change. Yeah, eagle 150 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: comes down, eats his liver again. Every day, liver eating 151 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: going on and just in torment forever because of this. 152 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: That is a big bummer. But we were grateful to Prometheus. Yeah, 153 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: And here's the code like that, Basically, the the knowledge 154 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: of fire was forbidden knowledge, you know, dangerous knowledge that 155 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: humans were not supposed to have. They weren't good to have. This. 156 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: What's the obvious comparison. Here is the fruit, Yeah, the 157 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: fruit of you know, from the Tree of Knowledge. Yeah, 158 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: the apple in in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, 159 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, the Book of Genesis. Um. But while it's 160 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: it's a lot more you know, situation of you know, 161 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: Eve and and Adam too, though they messed up and 162 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: you just put Adam in there, thanks for doing that. Well, 163 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: like it or not, it's like a lot of people 164 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: end up making that, you know, comparison, that Eve's the 165 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: one that really messed up by getting that apple though 166 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: I don't you know, agree with that. But but you 167 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: guys are getting You're not just getting a podcast on 168 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: science Day. You're getting a podcast on Adam and Eve 169 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: and Greek mythology and some of the fine that scientists 170 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: in literature. But so the point is though that that 171 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: unlike Adam and the Adam and Eve situation, Prometheus is 172 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: really seen as a hero, like he really did a 173 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: noble thing in a really horrendous price for it, right, 174 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: because he's trying to make life better for humanity. Right. 175 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: So it's not a situation of he did something evil 176 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: and was punished for it. He did something that the 177 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: gods didn't like, helped humanity out, but you know, had 178 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: dire consequences for him. So let's start talking about that 179 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: in terms of Frankenstein. So quick review here, it might 180 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: be an order. Yeah, um, in case you guys haven't 181 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: read it, it's it's pretty beautifully written tale uh with 182 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: a quote unquote monster you relate to, and has these 183 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: cultural ponderings that are just as relevant today, you know, 184 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: when we're talking about things like Higgs Boson and Dolly 185 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: the Sheep as they were back in the ages of 186 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, Darwin. Yeah, and it's important to again we're 187 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: talking about the book here, and there have been some 188 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 1: fine film adaptations, but but they often, uh differ from 189 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: from the original you know writing. Um. For instance, in 190 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: the in the book Victor Frankenstein, the Doctor, he's not 191 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: this hysterical madman. Okay, like he certainly acting from a 192 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: very like self centered you know, um um, you know 193 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: point of view, a very um you know us. Yeah, 194 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: he's very egotistical, you know. I mean, he's wanting to 195 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: do he wants to do this thing because it's gonna 196 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: be awesome and he's gonna be really well known for 197 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: and it's never been done before. You know, it's like 198 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: climbing you know, Mount Everest. Um. So maybe he's not 199 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: a mad scientist. Well yeah, it's kind of like maybe 200 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: he's more realistically mad and not just like looney you know, 201 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: um uh you know TV movie of the Week mad 202 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: Uh you know, because he's also he's really earnest. He's 203 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: a he's a solitary idealist, you know. Um, okay, yeah, 204 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: I have a Victor quote. This is from the book. 205 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: He said, Um, life and death appeared to me ideal 206 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: bounds which I should first breakthrough and pour a torrent 207 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: of light into our dark world, kind of like Prometheus 208 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: with his fire. Yeah. Yeah, he's this we're talking about 209 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: like Promethean fire here. He wants to to take forbidden knowledge, 210 00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: take something that man has never been able to do, 211 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: which is going to be create life and uh, and 212 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: make the world a better place somehow through it, you know, 213 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: improve the human condition by doing this. Now, the monster, 214 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: it's important, the monster in the book is not this 215 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: is this rampaging half wit. You know, he's he's not mute, 216 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: he's he's uh, he's not just he's articulate, in telligent. 217 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: He's articulate. He wants to be more human. That in 218 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: itself causes the problem. He wants to be part of 219 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: the society that he's confronted with. But you know, then 220 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: he has his parents to to contend with. Yeah. Victor 221 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: wanted to make apparently a pretty monster despite the fact 222 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: that he's like building it out of like corpses and 223 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: animal parts. Apparently. You know, I'm not really sure what 224 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: Victor thought he was gonna get. I think he was 225 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: that he went into this a little bold, you know. Uh. 226 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: And the monster, yes, is of course eight feet tall 227 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: and pretty hideous. Yeah, and uh, he ends up abandoning 228 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: the monster. He abandons his creation, like right after he 229 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: makes it. And uh and so yeah, so that this 230 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: the cideous monster finds himself in like human society, Uh, 231 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: just completely shunned as a monster because he's again eight 232 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: feet tall and and ugly as heck, let's hear from 233 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: the Monster, shall we? Yeah, he and there's a I mean, 234 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: the monster is just this great, you know, it's you 235 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: know that the monster is really the start of the show. 236 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: And the Monster, of course, is not named Frankenstein. We've 237 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: kind of gotten to the point where we refer to 238 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: the monster as Frankenstein, but it's just the monster. I 239 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: think occasionally Victor refers to him as a demon or something. 240 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: But here's a quote from the Monster. Did I request 241 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: the Maker from Mike Clay to mold me man? Did 242 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: I solicit the from Darkness to promote me? Because that's 243 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: the monster's whole deal. It's like, I didn't ask to 244 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: be made and all this, but you made me and 245 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: then you just abandoned me, and now I have to 246 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: deal with all this stuffed and yeah, and there's I mean, 247 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: in a way, the monster. Yeah, that's that's what he 248 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: comes to ask for. And again we're kind of mirroring 249 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: Adam and Eve kind of too. You know. It's like 250 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: he's he you know, he wants his mate, his up 251 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: so he's not a lonely alone in the world, you know. Um, 252 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: And so Victor complies, right, Yeah, he starts to comply 253 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: like he because he's like, all right, I'll do it, 254 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, and then we're splits, you know, we're even. 255 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: And then he's thinking, oh, my goodness, if I make 256 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: an because because the monster wanted another monster, like he 257 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: knew that if he made them, he made something beautiful 258 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: and more human, then it wouldn't accept him. So I 259 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: don't think the monster had heard of the Beauty and 260 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: the Beast. If maybe he maybe he realized that that 261 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: was unrealistic. He'd already tried. He was the monster. Nobody's 262 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: falling for him, so he needs another monster to fall 263 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: for him and he just needed time. Yeah, maybe, but 264 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: he wanted a mate now, so so yeah, so Victor 265 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: started to put one together and the process was moving along. 266 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: But then he was like, oh, my goodness, then these 267 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: two are gonna mate and they're gonna be more monsters 268 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: and this will just be a new race of monsters 269 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: and so so he freaked out and destroyed it, and 270 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, things got progressively worse from there. Yeah, 271 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: it all winds up. I I don't really want to 272 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: give the ending in case there's somebody out there who 273 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: actually is going to read it and hasn't read it, yeah, 274 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: or hasn't had it spoiled by movies. Yeah, just know that, 275 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: you know, things get worse, things get vengeful on both sides, 276 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: and the endings loved ones are lost, etcetera. So let's 277 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: talk about the meeting, right, Yes, So the great thing 278 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: about the book is that you end up sympathizing with 279 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: both characters. It's not a you know, it's not a 280 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: mad scientist creates sympathetic monster situation completely, it's not. It's 281 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: also not a human creates monster and monster ruins humans 282 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: life situation. Like there's a little bit of both, like Victor. Um, 283 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, Victor kind of asked for it by a 284 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: bandon is created this creature, you know, and and not 285 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: really doing much to try and fix the situation beyond 286 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: killing the creature and the monster. You know, even though 287 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: he comes from a very you know, relatable point and 288 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, and and and he's molded by the society 289 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: that he's thrust into. He also you know, becomes vengeful 290 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: and murderous and and becomes the mo to that society 291 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: thinks he is. You know. So what does this say 292 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: about society and what was going on with science at 293 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: the time. Well, let's talk about what was happening. I mean, 294 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: you have things like Charles Darwin's voyage to the Galapacus 295 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: Islands back in one. You have James Cook He's hooking 296 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: up around the world back in seventeen sixty eight. So 297 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: those were two, Yeah, those were two examples of you know, 298 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: stuff was getting done scientifically. People were traveling like they 299 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: never traveled before. They were figuring out things about um, 300 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: about where we came from and how life worked. Um, 301 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: they were even checking out death a little bit. You know, 302 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: there's some grave robbing and I'm not sure that was 303 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: all in the name of science necessarily. A lot of 304 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: it was though, um, as anybody who's read Mary Roach, 305 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: who we talked to in the previous we interviewed her 306 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: for a previous podcast. In her book Stiff, she goes 307 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: into the the corp drobbing that went on to give 308 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: medical students and scientists. So so that was pretty big. 309 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: And then there was a specifically Shelley was inspired by 310 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: this guy named Luigi Galvani and he would electrocute frog 311 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: legs to study, uh, you know, the how how bioelectricity 312 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: works and um, and yeah, so there were a lot 313 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: of it. It's it's kind of like science has has 314 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: been for a while. There's so many exciting things, and 315 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: it seems like we're just always on the cusp of 316 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: figuring out something that's really game changing, you know, like 317 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: synthetic biology. Yeah, yeah, synthetic biology or you know, cloning, um, 318 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, figuring out you know what's 319 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: going on inside of you know, minute particles, uh, you 320 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: know the very you know, structure of the universe. It's 321 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: like we're always just you're always trying to to answer 322 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: these questions and you can't help but wonder, what do 323 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: we answer them. What then if we answer them, what 324 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: what if we use that information? Uh in a way 325 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: that's unethical or irresponsible, because, like I said, the monster 326 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: ends up, you know, Victor ends up creating so much, 327 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: so much more death than he creates life. And it's 328 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: because the you know, it's because of society. It's because 329 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: of the decisions that he makes. Uh in in this 330 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: thing into the world, you know, so you can you 331 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: can ask similar questions about pretty much any scientific discovery 332 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: that we've made. You learn how to release the power 333 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: of the atom. You know, there's a monster for you 334 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: right there. You know, so much potential. But then uh 335 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,479 Speaker 1: and and certainly a lot of great things have come 336 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: of it, but also tremendous horror. Right, Yeah, definitely as 337 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: a society were capable of warping these discoveries. Yeah, I 338 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: mean it comes down Promethean fire. You know, it can illuminate, 339 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: it can heat your house, but it can also burn 340 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: you up. Moving on to the fly. Yeah, now this, um, 341 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about favorite mad scientists and my 342 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: you mentioned Jeff Goldbloom a lot, so I'm not really 343 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: surprised if he comes up. Well, yeah, I love it. 344 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: God Blooms a great actor and in the Fly he's 345 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: just amazing. Um and uh and this and I'm also 346 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: a Cronenberg fan and uh and this is one of 347 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 1: those uh, those Mad Scientists films that yeah, yeah, this 348 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: is like his most mainstream film. Um. But you know, 349 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: we we did a previous podcast about science fiction and 350 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: why science fiction matters, and one of the things we 351 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: mentioned that science fiction is always most interesting and what 352 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: it tells you about the time period in which it 353 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: was created, not about the future that it envisions or 354 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: the place that it thinks technology will go. And this 355 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: movie was was made, came out in six and it's 356 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: so it's it's firmly implanted in the eighties, and it's 357 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: it's mindset. Now you know, we're not talking about fashion 358 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: or anything, but it's shoulders. Yeah. But but the the 359 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: you can say, I think, um, Gina Davis has some 360 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: pretty eighties here going on at times. But Tina Davis, 361 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: she's great and she was I forgot about that at 362 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: the time that they made this. Um, gold Bloom and 363 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: her were an item. Apparently. Yeah, that's some good scoop, Robert. Yeah, 364 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: well and here's some here's some extra funds. So this 365 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: was a. This was a Cronenberg remake of a nineteen 366 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: fifty eight Vincent Price film, Vincent Price He of thriller. 367 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, who does the voice over? Okay? But it 368 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: was based on a script by James Clovell, who wrote 369 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: who later went on to write Show Gun, you know, 370 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: and all those films that all those different books about 371 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: Japan and Japanese culture, and this was in that screenplay 372 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: was based in a short story by this guy named 373 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: George Langolan, which I mean he never really did anything. 374 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: Appeared right nine seven issue of Playboy. Yeah, so I 375 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: don't know, that's just it's just interesting stuff. Yeah. But yeah, 376 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: and it also comes you know, again we're saying it's 377 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: the film that came out in eighty six was very 378 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: much a you know, a product of its time, even 379 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: though it was based on previous Yeah sure, but like 380 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: any good remake, and embodied the fears and ideas, right 381 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: of So what was going on then? Well, we as 382 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: always you know, there's scientific up people going on, new 383 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: advances in technology, but then more importantly, we have more 384 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: importantly we have a slowly thawing Cold War. Yeah, and uh, 385 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: in AIDS was pretty I mean, it continues to be 386 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: a big problem today obviously, but at the time there 387 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: was you know, that was when it really first started 388 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: to surface. Yeah, people were really concerned about it. It 389 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: was a huge social issue. I mean, it's still a 390 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: huge social issue, don't get me wrong, but you know, 391 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: at the time, it was even more prevalent in the media, 392 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: and that's when, Yeah, that's really when it started to 393 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: creep into our consciousness and become a reality. So basic 394 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,239 Speaker 1: setup in the movie, Yeah, so you have this guy 395 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: named Seth Brundle played by Goldwin, and he's a scientist, 396 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: brilliant scientist. Pony that movie, I can't recall. I think 397 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: he might have did you have I don't think he 398 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: had a ponytail. He had sort of big hair going on, um, 399 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: and he was like really ripped because he's naked a lot. 400 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of sex in the film, which 401 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: is actually important compared to when we're dealing with the 402 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: the contextual stuff that we're talking about here. Um. But yeah, 403 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: he's a scientist working on teleportation, um, which we have 404 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: an article about teleportation. Yeah. Gina Davis features as a journalist. Yeah, 405 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: she's invested. She's here to do a story about his 406 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: teleportation research. He has a telepod. Yeah, he has two telepods. 407 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: They look kind of like phone boosts, big fancy futuristic 408 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: black phone boots. And the idea is that a personal 409 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: be able to enter one of them and then they 410 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: will be like digitized, you know, turned into energy and 411 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: streamed across the room into another telepod, which will then 412 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: reassemble the digital information and you know, bam, you walk 413 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: out of the second pod. I wonder if they knew 414 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: about entanglement back in that, back in the day. Well, there's, uh, 415 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: it's something like entanglement happens because the plot basically is 416 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: just as it wasn't like the previous versions of this. 417 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: His DNA ends up scrambled with that of a house fly. 418 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: Like he finally figures out how it works. I mean, 419 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: you're doing all this important work on teleportation. But then 420 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: he gets careless. Yeah, he like jumps in there. It's 421 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: the middle of the nine and he's like all right, 422 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: takes his clothes off, climbs in the telepod. Doesn't see 423 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: that the fly goes in with him, and uh it 424 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: really doesn't realize it for a while because he comes 425 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: out of the other end and feels great. Feels stronger 426 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: like a man, more like a man. Um it you know, 427 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: ends up being a little more amorous. I think it's 428 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: the word um. And then he starts getting sick. Yeah, yeah, 429 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: I think he starts getting sick. Body parts start falling off, 430 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: his body continues to change. He's dying, yeah, and then 431 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: he realizes that he his body is is changing into 432 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: that of some grotesque fly human hybrid and uh, and 433 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: it's it's extra disturbing because, as the critics have pointed out, 434 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: the first maybe I don't know IF's the first half, 435 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: but the first chunk of the film kind of feels 436 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: like a romantic comedy, you know, like gold Bloom's characters 437 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: really likable. He's a little you know, centric, but centric, 438 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: but he's uh, you like him, you know. And Julia Roberts, 439 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: she's lovely and you really wanted to work out. It's 440 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: not Julia Roberts Gina Davis for Julia in the Fly. 441 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: No Gina is better, right, Um, so yeah, you really 442 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: wanted to work out for these two love birds. And 443 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: then uh, you know, genetic chaos and sues. Let's hear 444 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: from Let's hear from Seth Brendel. Oh yeah, there are 445 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: a lot of great Brundle quotes in this, but I 446 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: won't be able to do it justice. But jud's a 447 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: part where he's rambling. He's like, the disease has just 448 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: revealed its purpose. We don't have to worry about contagion anymore. 449 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: I know what the disease wants. It wants to turn 450 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 1: me into something else. That's not too terrible, is it. 451 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: Most people would give anything to be turned into something else. 452 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's and so I imagine that with a 453 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: much more gold bloomy kind of you know, craziness to it. 454 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: But but yeah, it's about It's kind of like about 455 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: like the dude finds out that his body's betraying him. Yeah, 456 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: and it mirrors a lot of things that are going 457 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: on in in the eighties and and specifically some high 458 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: profile reminders of death in the eighties. So there's the 459 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: euphoria of of drug addiction kind of mirrored in the 460 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: in the fly and um, the middle of the night 461 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: terrors of the cancer patient. And lastly, really the hopelessness 462 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: and the and the need of an AIDS victim. Yeah, 463 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: those these points were made by a Terence Rafferty, who 464 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: is a new York Times film critic back in the day. Yeah, 465 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: uh so so yeah, and uh and there's a guy 466 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: named Eddie Guerrero Edward not Eddie Errero, that's a wrestler. 467 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: Edward Edward Guerrero of the University of Delaware wrote a 468 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: he wrote an excellent piece titled AIDS as Monster in 469 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: Science Fiction and Horror Cinema. And this is pretty much 470 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: the only like academic study. Well, no, no, I con 471 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: see there being There may be other academics. I've seen 472 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: some of their academic papers that mentioned the Fly, But 473 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: this is the only academic paper I've seen that mentions 474 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: the movie Life Force, which is the naked vampire film 475 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: that Toby Hooper directed. Yes, but but that, But let's 476 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: get back to the Fly. Um. Guerrero argued that the 477 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: whole film is ultimately about society, you know, society's fears 478 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: about about AIDS, but in particular about single sexual liberation 479 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: and its pathological consequences. Um. Again, the first the part 480 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: of the movie is kind of like a romantic comedy. 481 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: You know, these these two love birds really dig each other. Uh, 482 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: and then they have sexual encounters a lot in the film, 483 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: Like it's not for kids. Uh, you know, and it 484 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: takes up a lot of screen time, his sexual appetites increasing, 485 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: and then all the bad stuff starts happening. So he 486 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: he says that it's ultimately about the idea that you 487 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: had a generation that was moving away from traditional family values. 488 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: You know, they're they're they're coming up into a more promiscuously, 489 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: more promisculous lifestyle, which leads to hyper sexuality, which leads 490 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: to disease and ultimately death. That's kind of a bumber. Yeah, 491 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: so that was his redound. I think Cronenberg is a 492 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: little more ambiguous when he's been asked about it in interviews. 493 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: But but that's the thing about like great art. You know, 494 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: you can you can look at it in the context 495 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: of its time and it you know, you can just 496 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: go wild with with figuring out what it can, what 497 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: it means, you know, the different meanings to it. But 498 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: let's get back to you what it is about science, 499 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: or at least what we think it might say about science. 500 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: You I mean, on the one level, there's this um 501 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: typical kind of mad science sense that reckless powerful science 502 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: destroys it turns you into a fly. Yeah, yeah, you're not. 503 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: It's just you know, forbidden knowledge. You weren't meant to 504 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: tamper in God's domain. And now you know you have 505 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: fly eyes. And there's also would flies really be so bad? 506 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: I mean they would be big, but they could see, 507 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: I mean, they could do all sorts of cool stuff. Yeah, 508 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,959 Speaker 1: well that's the thing. He could do really cool stuff 509 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: for a while in the picture, but then it just 510 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: got worse and worse. But there's also this sense that 511 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: despite all of our scientific and technological achievements, humans are 512 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: still tragically mortal than you know, susceptible to mormidity, mortality mwr. Yeah, totally. 513 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: You can. You can, you know, send a dude across 514 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: the room and it is a stream of like digital 515 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: data or energy or something. But you know, we still 516 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: get sick, we still die, and indeed, and that's something 517 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: that we're we're always going to well I don't know 518 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: about always, but for the foreseeable future we're going to 519 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: be pondering that. But not to end it on a 520 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, completely negative note, I'm going to mention one 521 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: last mad scientist that's also one of my favorites, and 522 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: that's Dr Kurt Leopold in the movies that that's Z A. A. 523 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: T and this was also known as The Blood Like, like, 524 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: who's that, I guess. Yeah, but it's also known as 525 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: the Bloodwaters of dr Z because that's what it was 526 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: titled when Mystery Science Theater did a send up of it. 527 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: But this is a mad scientist, like a really cheap, 528 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: cheaply film that like a picture. It takes place in Florida, 529 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: and this mad scientist turns himself into a giant catfish 530 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: in an attempt to take over the world, and it 531 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: just it's just so awkward and he just seems so 532 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: lonely and it's like really bad film. But I can't 533 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: help if I were meant to encounter or I think 534 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: if I were meant to take over the world, I 535 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: would I'm not sure I would pick being a catfish. Yeah, 536 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how I thought of it. Like he's 537 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: just kind of like I'm going to totally become a 538 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: giant catfish. That's like step one and then like step 539 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: to take over the world. Yeah, how about that? So 540 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 1: those are two of our favorite mad scientists who are yours? 541 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: Tell us about him? Yeah, let us know, send this 542 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: an email, uh science stuff that hus to first dot com. Oh, 543 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: and I have a quick listener mail here for us 544 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: from Eric, who who's writing to us from Sweden, and 545 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: he says, Hi, I just wanted to give you a 546 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: tip for a series of really awesome novels in relation 547 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: to your discussion of the history of science. In the 548 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: latest podcast about the scientific method in its history, you 549 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: commented on Sir Isaac Newton and his work for science 550 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: and also his interest in alchemy. A great series of 551 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: novels where where this is a big part is the 552 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: Baroque Cycle by Neil Stevenson. It's for nerds, that I admit, 553 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 1: but if you don't mind the link, I assure you 554 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: you won't be disappointed. Regards Eric from Sweden. Thanks Eric. Yeah, 555 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: I've only read one book by Neil Stevenson I think 556 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: was Yes Snow Crash, but I've been tempted to read 557 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: his other gigantic novels. Indeed, Hey, if you guys have 558 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: anything you want to share with us, do you connect 559 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: with us on Facebook or Stuff in the Science Lab 560 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: or on Twitter too. We're love stuff. So that's all 561 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: we got today. Thanks for listening for more on this 562 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff works 563 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: dot Com? Want more How Stuff Works. Check out our 564 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: blogs on the house Stuff Works dot com home page.