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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm Matt Miller and

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Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Elliott and this is hot Pursuit.

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Speaker 2: I guess to see you. It's great to see you.

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Speaker 2: Do you look fantastic? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Thanks?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if my zoom for some reason, I

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Speaker 2: look very red.

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Speaker 1: I'm not, it's just the lighting.

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Speaker 2: What uh what a day yesterday, today, probably tomorrow. Like wow,

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Speaker 2: these tariffs, I mean, this new world order.

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Speaker 1: It's exhausting. It's I mean, my nerves are shot.

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Speaker 2: From my point of view as a journalist, like so exciting,

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Speaker 2: you know, But I look at my four oh one

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Speaker 2: k and I'm like.

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Speaker 1: No, I know, I know. I can't believe that, Like

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Speaker 1: they went through with it. He went through with it

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Speaker 1: because we've been hearing about this is gonna happen, and

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Speaker 1: he kind of like, ah, right, well we'll see because

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Speaker 1: everything has been so volatile anyway.

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Speaker 2: Everyone was actually did it. Everybody was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's so surprising, And I'm like, what he's been telling us.

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Speaker 1: The whole time, you know, that really doesn't mean much.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I always think of the Far Side cartoon where

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Speaker 2: the two people are looking up at the billboard of

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Speaker 2: the the two sheep are looking up at the billboard

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Speaker 2: of the wolf, and one sheep says to the other,

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Speaker 2: I like him because he says what he's thinking. And

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Speaker 2: and the wolf is saying, I'm going to eat you.

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Speaker 2: You know, Yes, I love He's been he's been telling

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Speaker 2: us like he's going to eat us. And here here

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Speaker 2: it is. It's incredible.

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Speaker 1: Yes. So I spent the whole week leading up to

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Speaker 1: this writing a story about how classic car collectors and

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Speaker 1: brokers and shippers and logistics specialists and legal authorities, we're

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Speaker 1: all freaking out because going into the Trump had not

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Speaker 1: announced any exemptions and had said specifically there will be

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Speaker 1: no exemptions on the twenty five percent automotive tariffs that

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Speaker 1: he was going to enact effective April third, which is today,

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Speaker 1: and that goes for cars and parts coming into the country,

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Speaker 1: a flat twenty five percent tariff.

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Speaker 2: So have won unless their USMCA compliance, yes, and in

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Speaker 2: which case they will be taxed only on the percentage

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Speaker 2: of parts that are not American.

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Speaker 1: So if a car is coming in with twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent US parts, it'll it'll be taxed on the rest,

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Speaker 1: It'll be taxed on the seventy five percent that are

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Speaker 1: not American. All that to say, there wasn't any exemption

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Speaker 1: written in for classic cars, which would have been a

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Speaker 1: really big deal because that means that if you're buying

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Speaker 1: something at r M Sotheby's upcoming sale in Milan, like

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Speaker 1: you've got a Aston Martin that you've got your eye on,

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Speaker 1: like our Steve Sarah told me that tax on another

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Speaker 1: twenty five percent to what you're going to pay, and

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Speaker 1: that kind of kills the deal because why would you

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Speaker 1: pay that premium? You just wouldn't. It also meant that

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Speaker 1: people who were going to consign cars to sales in

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Speaker 1: the US, to auctions or whatever, especially in Monterey, we're

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Speaker 1: pulling their cars already from the auctions because why would

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Speaker 1: you pay another twenty five percent to sell your car?

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Speaker 1: Just doesn't make sense. The good news is, as of

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Speaker 1: yesterday afternoon, I did see some guidance that was sent

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Speaker 1: around to from customs to shippers that said that there

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Speaker 1: will be an exemption for cars that are twenty five

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Speaker 1: years or older. Now that doesn't mean that cars that

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Speaker 1: are fifteen years old won't also be tax which is

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Speaker 1: kind of tough because what about the cool Mercedes and

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Speaker 1: jdms that we want to get over here to collect

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Speaker 1: They're still collectible, they're just not old. So that's it

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Speaker 1: cars exactly. So that's kind of an issue. But the

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Speaker 1: flip side of that, which is kind of good for us,

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Speaker 1: is that potentially it means that any of these collectible

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Speaker 1: cars that are already in the US are going to

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Speaker 1: be worth more because if we if we if the

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Speaker 1: importation of these cars slows down, it's kind of good

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Speaker 1: if we already have our own collectible cars.

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Speaker 2: Well, so there's there's a lot of moving parts here.

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Speaker 2: But basically, so classic cars will not be they will

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Speaker 2: be exempt from the twenty five percent auto tariff that

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Speaker 2: goes into effect today. We're recording this on April third.

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Speaker 1: Yes, if they're older than twenty five years old.

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Speaker 2: If they're older than twenty five years old, they will

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Speaker 2: be exempt from that twenty five percent tariff. If they're

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Speaker 2: coming from Europe, for example, they will still be subject

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Speaker 2: to a two and a half percent tariff.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and that has always been the case.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And but my question is on Saturday, when the

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Speaker 2: ten percent blanket tariffs go and to effect, I guess

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Speaker 2: those will apply to classic cars as well. And then

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Speaker 2: on Wednesday, when the additional tariffs go into effect twenty percent.

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Speaker 2: For example, on the EU, are those going to hit

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Speaker 2: like classic car if you import like a nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: four nine to eleven from Stuttgart, are you going to

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Speaker 2: have to pay next week at the end of next week,

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Speaker 2: you know, basically twenty or thirty percent on that car.

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Speaker 1: The answer to that is no to my as of today,

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Speaker 1: to my best understanding, because I did read the executive

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Speaker 1: order that was released yesterday when they are talking about

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Speaker 1: the reciprocal tariffs, right, and that order said some goods

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Speaker 1: will not be subject to the reciprocal tariff. These include

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Speaker 1: steal in aluminium articles and autos. Automotive parts already subject

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Speaker 1: to tariffs. So at least with the reciprocal tariffs, autos

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Speaker 1: and automotive parts will not be subject. Now when the

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Speaker 1: flat ten percent, that's a little unclear. That's a little unclear.

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Speaker 2: I guess I need to plast the two and a

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Speaker 2: half percent that currently.

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Speaker 1: See that's a good question.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so a little bit confusing, But for the most part,

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Speaker 2: it does look like exemptions if you're buying cars over

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Speaker 2: twenty five years.

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Speaker 1: Old, and yeah, I mean that's not me, but it

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Well you might what if you find a car.

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Speaker 1: There are great marks overseas, they're all right hand drive.

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Speaker 1: But that's fine. I can get behind it. I will say.

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Speaker 1: I talked with one shipper told me at at Silver

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Speaker 1: Tiger Logistics. He said they bring over about a thousand

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Speaker 1: cars a year and they regularly have flights that the

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Speaker 1: value of the cars on the single flight is over

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Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars. Wow, So this is this is

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Speaker 1: I mean, it seems niche, but it's a lot of

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Speaker 1: money and a lot of goods that would have been

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Speaker 1: subject to this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, by the way, I was at the

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Speaker 2: Moto GP races in Austin last weekend and it strikes me,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure you see this another for example, a

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Speaker 2: Formula one. It strikes me that if you've got it

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Speaker 2: down to a science, packing up and shipping vehicles is

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Speaker 2: so easy completely. They've they've got boxes like already built

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Speaker 2: and they just roll the chassis in, you know, sinch

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Speaker 2: it down, close the box and it goes into a

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Speaker 2: container perfectly.

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Speaker 1: So completely, like theoretically you could have it done with

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Speaker 1: a single phone call.

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Speaker 2: Right. Well, I'm just saying, like Silver Tiger or.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, our cars cars.

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Speaker 2: They do it all the time, so yes, constantly. For them,

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Speaker 2: it's not a big deal. If you're one person and

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Speaker 2: it's the first time you've ever done it, then it's

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Speaker 2: kind of a pain. But if you're doing regularly, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so very interesting stuff. We're going to talk by the way,

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Speaker 2: to Chris Bryant, who is a Bloomberg opinion writer and

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Speaker 2: one with whom I worked for many years in Berlin.

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Speaker 2: Very smart guy.

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Speaker 1: That's so cool. I I still need to go to Berlin.

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Speaker 1: I've never been, but yeah, Chris Brian is one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite columnists at Bloomberg. He's I read is. I

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Speaker 1: have notices attached to his column so I read them

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Speaker 1: whenever they come out. And he's really good at tying

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Speaker 1: in the business side, the product side, putting it all

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Speaker 1: in context. And yeah, he's he's great.

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Speaker 2: I've been struck by his columns lately. I've been struck

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Speaker 2: by his his knowledge of these kind of niche products.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you are a hypercar expert, because that's your job,

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Speaker 2: but Chris is like an editorial writer for a financial

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Speaker 2: news organization, so it's pretty cool that he knows. For example,

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Speaker 2: you know that the Valhalla has much improved interior, you know.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, yeah, you know what I like too. I

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Speaker 1: firmly believe that the products of any given automotive company

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Speaker 1: speak to the company. So when you get into a

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Speaker 1: certain product and your note seeing things, those are a

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Speaker 1: direct They're a distant, but they're a direct result of

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Speaker 1: what is happening within the company structurally and financially, and

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Speaker 1: you can draw a straight line. And when I read Chris,

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Speaker 1: he completely clarifies what's going on internally at the company

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Speaker 1: that I see in the product. I mean, there is

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Speaker 1: a correlation. And it's so cliche to say, but there's

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Speaker 1: a direct correlation between what is going on within the

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Speaker 1: behind closed doors at certain companies and the end product.

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Speaker 1: And that's always true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I've been loving his stuff lately as well.

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Speaker 2: I too have an alert set on my Bloomberg so

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Speaker 2: that I can get his column sent directly to me.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into it, Chris Bryant from Berlin.

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Speaker 1: Chris, thanks for joining us. I want to go right

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Speaker 1: into your column today me too.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you wrote that. And this is the

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Speaker 2: first time I actually understand the ownership structure of Porsche, Bugatti, Remac.

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Speaker 2: I've never gotten so acusing and so weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, can I just jump in and ask

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Speaker 1: for me the biggest question, which is I don't think

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Speaker 1: Porscha needs Bugatti, and I feel like that's kind of

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Speaker 1: where you landed in your column. But I don't see

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Speaker 1: what Bugatti gives Porsche at this point.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's a topic that I was wrestling

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Speaker 3: with and just to catch catch people love. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's now sort of discussions basically that that Martirimac,

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Speaker 3: this amazing Croatian entrepreneur, would like to, in conjunction with investors,

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Speaker 3: maybe take over the half of Bugatti Remac that Porsche own.

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Speaker 4: And I don't know. I mean, Porscha's really under pressure.

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Speaker 3: They need to be more luxury, they need to sell

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Speaker 3: more expensive vehicles, and they have this amazing asset that

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Speaker 3: they never talk about, that you kind of never really

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Speaker 3: hear very much about. And Martima has been getting on

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Speaker 3: with the job for the last three four years and

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Speaker 3: then suddenly, yeah, these tensions have emerged, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it seems like Porscha maybe wanted to take over the

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Speaker 3: joint venture and now maybe he does, and it's all

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Speaker 3: a bit unclear, but I just can't help thinking out

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Speaker 3: They've got this this great asset that produces vehicles that

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Speaker 3: you know, highly sought after that people have to you know,

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Speaker 3: a clamor to get hold of, and then they might

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Speaker 3: sell it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I did come down on the on the side of

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Speaker 3: the argument, yeah, that maybe they maybe they should just

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Speaker 3: because there aren't enough commonalities with the rest of the

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Speaker 3: Porsche business and making hyper cars we can talk about that,

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Speaker 3: the economics of that are not always great.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you really pointedly, what is your

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Speaker 1: sense about Porsche's plan to develop the hypercar success or

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Speaker 1: something in addition to the nine eighteen Spider And is

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Speaker 1: there a sense that Porsche had hoped to leverage Bugatti intelligence, infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: whatever else in order to develop the new hyper which

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Speaker 1: obviously we haven't seen and has sort of disappeared.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we've not seen it, right, I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: the original plan for Porscho was, you know, we saw

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Speaker 3: this mission acts hypercar that they developed, an all electric

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Speaker 3: hypercar that I think they showed a couple of years three. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: back then it probably seemed like a smart idea. Of course,

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Speaker 3: now you know, a lot can happen in.

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Speaker 4: A couple of years.

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Speaker 3: And even Marty Rimack, who developed the Remagnivera, which you know,

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Speaker 3: broke all kinds of records as a all electric hypercar,

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Speaker 3: had some comments last year along the lines as well,

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Speaker 3: it's not really selling as much as we hoped. Many

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Speaker 3: of the customers in this in this bracket who were

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Speaker 3: buying a you know, a seven car, they you know,

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Speaker 3: they feel that electric hypercars like the kind of emotion.

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Speaker 3: They still want to combustion engine all the rest of it.

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Speaker 3: And you know, even hinted that he might not develop

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Speaker 3: another one. And so if I was Porsche probably looking

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Speaker 3: at that space now, I might have reservations about bringing

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Speaker 3: in all electric hypercar to market. And therefore, you know,

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Speaker 3: if they have to go back to the drawing board,

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Speaker 3: then it could take a long time.

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Speaker 4: And that's why you.

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Speaker 3: Know, some people thought, well maybe Bogat you could help

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Speaker 3: fill that gap. I mean, if they if they took

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Speaker 3: control of that joint venture, then they sort of instantly

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Speaker 3: have a hypercar in the portfolio. They wouldn't have to

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Speaker 3: develop a new one. And Hannah, I think you were there,

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Speaker 3: like the new Toboon is very impressive vehicle.

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, it's it's amazing, and I think they've sold out.

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Speaker 1: And yet just as you say, you know, Remec and

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Speaker 1: let's not forget Peninferina with their electric Batista, which is

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Speaker 1: also using REMAT components, Like now is not the time

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Speaker 1: to be selling an electric hypercar. My question for Portie

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Speaker 1: is why do they not pivot to a hybrid, you know, supercar,

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Speaker 1: something like their nine to nineteen, the lemm prototype that

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Speaker 1: they've already developed. Why not just move that into production.

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Speaker 2: Hybrid too? Right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to me that that would make a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense. And from you know, what I hear

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Speaker 1: on the ground from collectors is that Porsche was accepting

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Speaker 1: statements of intent and really trying to drum up buyers

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Speaker 1: for this mission X, this hypercar. Now. I asked last year,

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Speaker 1: I asked Porsche, what's going on, what's the latest? Can

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Speaker 1: you confirm or deny? And of course they don't want

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Speaker 1: to confirm or deny where they are in the program,

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Speaker 1: but they did say, we've never accepted deposits because what

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Speaker 1: we showed in twenty twenty three was only a concept,

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Speaker 1: you know. Therefore, they have plausible deniability that it's not

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Speaker 1: like they canceled anything. If they didn't commit to anything

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Speaker 1: in the first place. But if you talk to you know,

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Speaker 1: high end buyers and collectors, they all say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Porche's been trying, Porscha's been, you know, offering me allocations

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Speaker 1: for this, and I didn't want it because it was electric,

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Speaker 1: which takes the question, then why not simply pivot and

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Speaker 1: make it a hybrid, because they've already got a hybrid

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Speaker 1: prototype that you know, has the numbers for it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, performance, I think that absolutely should do.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I think that, you know, always the story

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Speaker 3: with hypercars is can you develop then add a reasonable

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Speaker 3: costs because clearly you've always got to be trying to

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Speaker 3: stretch the boundaries of the possible and that always is

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Speaker 3: a challenge. And of course what's really hard right now

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Speaker 3: is that they just have this competitor who seems to

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Speaker 3: have cracked it right with Ferrari. I mean, say what

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Speaker 3: you like about the fad. Personally, I'm not a big fan.

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of people have mixed opinions about

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Speaker 3: that vehicle, but it's going to be an absolute cash

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Speaker 3: machine for Ferrari. You know, they're all sold out seven

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Speaker 3: hundred and ninety nine units, so that's a lot more

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Speaker 3: than they produced. It's a lot more than they produced

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Speaker 3: with le Ferrari. They managed to allocate them all very quickly.

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Speaker 3: I dare say they in a couple of years or

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Speaker 3: come out with the spider version as well, a few

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Speaker 3: hundred of those. So they're going to make you know,

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Speaker 3: billions of revenue with that and analysting very high margin.

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Speaker 3: And so if Porsche is not able to do that,

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Speaker 3: you know, if they came with a hyper car and

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Speaker 3: then it wasn't very profitable for example, that would be

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Speaker 3: you know, disastrous too, So so you know, really difficult one.

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Speaker 3: I just I get the feeling of the fact it

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Speaker 3: hasn't happened, you know, reflects either challenge is on the

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Speaker 3: engineering side or yeah, the power train in front is

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Speaker 3: a question. And then simply they've just got so much

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Speaker 3: on their plate at the moment. You know, the electric

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Speaker 3: strategy is not you know, gone up and smoke China's

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Speaker 3: strategy too, so you know, trying to get all those.

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Speaker 4: Things in line.

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Speaker 3: I think maybe it's like too much and the thing

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Speaker 3: that's like not happened yet.

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Speaker 2: I want to just say that the F eighty being

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Speaker 2: sold out at those prices just proves the fact that

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Speaker 2: rich people have more money than sense. I mean, people

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Speaker 2: are just throwing money at it because it's ferrari, And

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Speaker 2: I think probably those buyers are not true car lovers,

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Speaker 2: because how can.

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Speaker 1: You say that?

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Speaker 2: How can.

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Speaker 1: Seeing the same car that I'm seeing?

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Speaker 2: I see the weak powertrain?

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Speaker 1: What are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: Is it the six even or is it only four cylinders?

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Speaker 2: Who knows? I didn't tell you what it is.

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Speaker 1: Read nine hundred horse power? It does, I don't care,

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't get under the hood and count the cylinders.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't even none of us on this

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Speaker 1: call right now could drive that car to its full

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Speaker 1: capacity because we're not professional driver.

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Speaker 2: So many cars and look, I've driven many many cars

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Speaker 2: that have huge horse power numbers, but they're hybrids and

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Speaker 2: they have a two liter four cylinder, and they're just

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Speaker 2: not pleasing vehicles to drive. The horse power doesn't matter anymore.

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Speaker 2: That's why something like a Rimeck hypercar makes me feel

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Speaker 2: a little bit sick. I mean, it's just a waste

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Speaker 2: of a soulless waste of money. And the only people

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Speaker 2: who want something like that are like Lewis Hamilton, because

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Speaker 2: he just has so much money and doesn't care that

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Speaker 2: much about it.

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Speaker 1: I would withhold judgment until you've driven it, my friend,

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Speaker 1: I guarantee you fair, if you drove it, you would

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Speaker 1: be screaming with joy and pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Well, I also paid for it, right, because I would

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Speaker 2: much rather have something that has true character, and I

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Speaker 2: sincerely doubt that that does. Although you're right, I haven't

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Speaker 2: driven it. I want to step back, though, for a

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Speaker 2: moment and walk through just the ownership structure of Bugatti

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Speaker 2: Remac because I don't think Chris, that a lot of

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Speaker 2: people understand it, and I think after reading your column

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Speaker 2: I do for the first time. So basically, Porsche owns

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Speaker 2: a forty five percent steak in the joint venture of

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Speaker 2: Bugatti Rimac, and Rimac owns the other fifty five percent,

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Speaker 2: but Porsche owns twenty percent of Remac, so in a sense,

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Speaker 2: they actually own more. And I wonder if this is

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Speaker 2: just a legacy of Wolfsburg, Like, are the Germans just

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Speaker 2: into these incredibly complex ownership structures or is there any

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Speaker 2: kind of reason for that?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean not. You know the history as well

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Speaker 4: as I do.

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Speaker 3: You know this used to be owned by Volksbag and

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Speaker 3: it was Ferdinand Pich.

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Speaker 4: His baby.

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Speaker 2: You know, he is the one who.

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Speaker 3: Rescued Bugatti, developed the you know, the ve run and

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Speaker 3: great expanse really you know, brought it up to the

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Speaker 3: modern era. And then of course we had diesel Gate,

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Speaker 3: we had you know how a dec CEO came in

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Speaker 3: with the or the electric strategy, and Bugatti didn't really

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Speaker 3: seem to fit in that structure anymore. And as you

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Speaker 3: know discussed, he didn't have the you know, the economies

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Speaker 3: of scale, the shared parts and all the rest of it.

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Speaker 3: And so they found this sort of neat solution. You know,

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Speaker 3: they saw Marty Rummack, and to be honest, I always think,

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Speaker 3: my goodness me. You know, he'd already had investment from

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Speaker 3: Porsche into his you know, component maker and all the

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Speaker 3: rest of it in the his Rimant group. But then

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Speaker 3: they suddenly came to him and said, hey, you know

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Speaker 3: you're gonna have Bugatti. The guy was thirty three years old.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's incredible. And that's what they did because

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Speaker 3: at the time, you know, he developed the Nevera and

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Speaker 3: the expectation was that he would then develop basically an

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Speaker 3: electric Bugatti. I think that was the feeding back then,

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Speaker 3: and you know that the future for Bugaddy was going

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Speaker 3: to be electric too, and he would essentially make it

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Speaker 3: a kind of an electric version of the Shiron. Now

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00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 3: than goodness he didn't. But yeah, as a result you

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Speaker 3: have this structure with you know, the state got past

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Speaker 3: the Porsche portion went public and so then you had

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Speaker 3: forty five percent on the Porsche side fifty five on

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Speaker 3: the Remax side. With importantly Marti Rimak as the CEO,

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Speaker 3: so he's the one driving the force there. And to

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Speaker 3: be honest, I mean he's made some good decisions. As say,

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Speaker 3: he didn't develop an all electric Bugaddi, I think that

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Speaker 3: would have been a mistake in hindsight. So it's a hybrid,

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Speaker 3: the tur Beyon. It's a good decision. You know, developed

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Speaker 3: a relatively low cost. He's got Cosworth, you know, providing

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Speaker 3: the engine. I think you know he won't have any

390
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Speaker 3: problems on the Cylindercount with that engine.

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Speaker 2: Matt.

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Speaker 3: That's sixteen of them, I think, so you know takes

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Speaker 3: that box for you. And so yeah, in the theory's

394
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Speaker 3: going okay. But you know, actually, if you look at

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Speaker 3: the financials, which I did in the Porsche accounts, you

396
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 3: know that they lost money last year and the sales

397
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 3: tumbled almost fifty percent, and that's partly because of just

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Speaker 3: the motorcycle.

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Speaker 4: This hiron ran out. That turbion has not arrived yet.

400
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Speaker 3: They've got a couple of victuals, you know, convertible in

401
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 3: the track only car that will tide them over for

402
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 3: a bit. But nevertheless, there's probably some things that Porscha

403
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 3: and Bagaddi didn't you know, sorry, Porscha and Rimac didn't

404
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 3: entirely agree on, and the result is now you have

405
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Speaker 3: this sort of type of war between two of them.

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Speaker 1: I would say to your point about Mate Rimac, he

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Speaker 1: is a really interesting individual and just listening to you

408
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Speaker 1: to describe this timeline, you know, there's there's somebody else

409
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Speaker 1: who's been in the car world, who's been very young,

410
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: who's been a disruptor with electric cars, and that person

411
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Speaker 1: was Elon Musk And and you know, I remember interviewing

412
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Speaker 1: Elon twelve years ago, before all of before he became

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Speaker 1: who he is now, and watching and speaking with Mate

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Speaker 1: over the past few years. It's almost like Mate is

415
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Speaker 1: the antithesis. He's the other side of the same coin

416
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Speaker 1: of Elon, where this is someone who's very young, incredibly

417
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Speaker 1: intelligent and a disruptor. Of course Mate is doing it

418
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Speaker 1: in a different way, but I do think it's really

419
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Speaker 1: interesting to watch him developed, And I don't I don't

420
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Speaker 1: really know what my point is with this, other than

421
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Speaker 1: to say I don't think this is the last act

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Speaker 1: of Mante by any means.

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Speaker 2: Well, certainly not only is able to buy Bugatti. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think one of the things that struck me most

425
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Speaker 2: about your story, Chris is that the price seems so low, right,

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Speaker 2: isn't it a billion euros or there is.

427
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Speaker 3: What bloom News is reported, Yeah, as a total value

428
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 3: for Bugatti remark, that does seem low, But there are reasons, right,

429
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Speaker 3: I mean if you think about actually how much revenue

430
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Speaker 3: they make in a year. You know this is a

431
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Speaker 3: joint venture. They still one hundred cars a year, and

432
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Speaker 3: now okay, find those cars are four million, three four million,

433
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: but that's still you know, I need three four hundred

434
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 3: million euros of revenue plus as say, they don't actually

435
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: make money at the moment. Now that should change with

436
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: the tubion, but in that sense pure financial is not

437
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 3: going to be worth that much. However, of course, as

438
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 3: we know, hypercar companies are of course highly sought after.

439
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 3: His trophy assets, and you've seen a lot of them

440
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: change hands, notably McLaren recently, so I'm sure there are

441
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 3: a lot of people out there'd be very interested in

442
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 3: acquiring that stake. Is clearly Mutti roommack we need some

443
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 3: financial backerds if he wanted to to purchase that stake.

444
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: That's what by the way, folks shagging paid for Jucati

445
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 2: as well, was a billion euros. And I think the

446
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: difference between to me what Porsche does and Bugatti does.

447
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: Porsche makes these near perfect, beautiful machines. Bugatti makes artwork

448
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,239
Speaker 2: that you can drive at incredibly high speed. So I

449
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: feel like there's a vow to Bugatti beyond just the revenue.

450
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: And I don't think that three x revenue or even

451
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 2: two x in a year or two with prices going

452
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: in this direction, is that high a price to put

453
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: on it. But you're the expert, right because you're the

454
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: one looking at these car companies all day long, at

455
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 2: the financials, and then you know, typing along in our

456
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: Berlin office.

457
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 3: This is not I'm sure that's not the end of

458
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 3: the story. And my argument today was, you know, Porsche

459
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 3: isn't under no pressure to accept that any offer presented

460
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: to them, they don't have to sell.

461
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 4: In fact, they.

462
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 3: Could have good reasons to retain it if they thought that,

463
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: you know, taking a control of Bugatti and therefore, you know,

464
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 3: bringing that into the Porsche fold, you know, talking about

465
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: it regularly was going to like, you know, improve their valuation.

466
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: You know, just even like a sprinkle of Baghatti on

467
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: that on their share price could do could be worth

468
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: you know, billions in market value, because you know, stop

469
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: market valuations for car companies that they're not entirely logical.

470
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 3: You know, Ferrari a company that is doing excellent job,

471
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 3: but it makes fourteen thousand cars a year and is

472
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 3: now you know, the most valuable European automaker, worth more

473
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: than Fox five, which is which makes nine million cars

474
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 3: a year and owns Lamborghini and Bentley. So you can't say, well,

475
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: it's just because you know, of luxury here whatever, you know,

476
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: some of this stuff is is just sort of almost

477
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: like magic, and so I would imagine that it might

478
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 3: have been people at Porsche who thought, you know, maybe

479
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 3: if we did more with Bugatti, we could have some

480
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: of that kind of Ferrari evaluation magic too.

481
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: It's so un German, though, isn't it Hannah Bugatti? It's French.

482
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: They have a castle.

483
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 4: They have a castle.

484
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, Porsche should have like a Bauhaus

485
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: cement box in which they build their machines. It just does.

486
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 4: They do have a nice museum.

487
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice, but it's like modern architecture, all angles

488
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: and straight lines, and it just doesn't it doesn't seem

489
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: very Bugatti esque.

490
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: Can we pivot a little bit, Chris and ask how

491
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: tariffs are going to affect all of what we've just discussed?

492
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: And maybe this isn't a pivot, it's more of a segue.

493
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: The addition of twenty five percent at this point, twenty

494
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: five percent onut a motive tariffs? Does that change the

495
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: proposition for what Porsia is trying to do and how

496
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: Portia is pivoting? And also within relief to Ferrari, which

497
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: we're calling a competitor, and I know you guys tend

498
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: to when you're analyzing these companies, but is it really

499
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: a competitor. Ferrari just seems to be quite in their own,

500
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, the porch, right, And let's be honest, like

501
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: historically Portia is a very sort of humble, just sporty

502
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: track car. You know, they've never been Ferrari. So sometimes

503
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: when I read about Porsia being a competitor Forra, I'm

504
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: kind of like, well, no, they're not at all. But

505
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: that's not a value judgment. It's just like Ferrari is

506
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: in a whole other echelon and always has been.

507
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 3: I agree with everything you've just said, but I think

508
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: the thing that's changes is Ferrari has managed to move

509
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: even into it even more of its own lead right

510
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: over the last past couple of years. When it became

511
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: public company, you know it probably about a decade ago now,

512
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody would have dreamed of the kind

513
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 3: of stock market value and the kind of profitability that

514
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: they've really managed to generate now. And I think that's obviously, like,

515
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: you know, inspired everybody else in the industry who thinks,

516
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 3: well we can have a bit of that too. But

517
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 3: when then you look at the pricing power, I mean, really,

518
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 3: Ferrari is moving away now average price per vehicle of

519
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: more than four hundred thousand euros, so similar amount of dollars,

520
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: and Porsche down on kind of one hundred and fifteen

521
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: thousand euros. So again like similar amount of dollars. You know,

522
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 3: it's a huge gap. And so yeah, when Tara happened, Uh,

523
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: they're obviously much more of a problem for portion than

524
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 3: they are for Ferrari came out straight away, I think,

525
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 3: within hours and said, okay, this is what we're going

526
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 3: to do. Well, you know, we're going to honor our

527
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: contracts on your two nine six that you ordered, like

528
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 3: you know, two years have go. But the new models,

529
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 3: you know, you're twelve cylindery, you know, the price is

530
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 3: going to go up by ten percent.

531
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 4: I think that's what they said.

532
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: I mean, truly, will anybody even blink at that?

533
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 4: I sit somewhere in the middle of this debate.

534
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 3: I think that Ferrari is getting close to the point

535
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: where customers will care. And you know, clearly your your

536
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 3: Ferrari collector who has thirty forty cars, who buys the

537
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 3: fad not because they love the car, but because they

538
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 3: want the the SP four. When that comes, you know,

539
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 3: these people they'll just you know, they take the hit.

540
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: It's not about the money, and they'll be fine. But

541
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: they still have to sell a decent amount of range

542
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: cars every year. And if those vehicles really start to

543
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: depreciate and they are now like if you bought an

544
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: SSF ninety or a two nine six, you're sitting on

545
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 3: quite the loss and you feel like you've got to

546
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 3: do that again and again, and then they increase the

547
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 3: price of the next car.

548
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 4: You know, then you are starting to hit the limit there.

549
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 3: And so yeah, we're talking about very privileged people who yeah,

550
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 3: you know, anybody who can buy a Ferrari is already

551
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 3: doing fine in life. So, you know, small violence, but

552
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: at the same time it is a threat to the

553
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 3: business model and very interestingly as well. One thing that

554
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: Ferrari has been doing that again everybody else in the

555
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: industry is trying to do, is personalization.

556
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 4: And I mentioned it again today.

557
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: You know, you turbinion will cost you for a million dollars,

558
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: but you know, add on another million by the time

559
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: you've spect it, right, And what Ferrari has been saying

560
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: recently is actually these customized options that the twenty five

561
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: thousand dollars paint job. These are the things that when

562
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 3: you come to sell the vehicle that the secondhand customer

563
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: is not willing to pay for because why would I

564
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: pay that, you know, which is frankly an absurd price

565
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: to pay for a paint job for a secondhand car

566
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: that wasn't you know a color that I chose because

567
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: it matched my you know, yacht or whatever and.

568
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 4: So, and this is contributing to the depreciation.

569
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 3: Just to finish the thought that basically, yeah, if Ferrari

570
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: start to depreciate more because people are specting them a lot,

571
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: then that's a bit of a threat to the business model.

572
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: To me, that's a sad fact of buying custom vehicles

573
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: or adding aftermarket accessories. The next buyer is not willing

574
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: to pay for those almost ever. I wonder about the

575
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 2: the other car makers and how they'll be hit with tariffs.

576
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: We've already heard from Folkswagen today that they're they've got

577
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: cars on boats that they're not going to ship right now,

578
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: they're holding them in port, and that they're going to

579
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: charge an import fee on those cars that do get

580
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: to the US and get the tariff. So do you

581
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: know anything more from other automakers? I mean, how is

582
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: this going to affect the global industry?

583
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 4: Have you got them?

584
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 3: Have you got six hours for me to answer that question?

585
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, it's it's an absolute nightmare, Like for everybody,

586
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: there's nobody who's not affected. You know that, Yeah, the

587
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 3: four f one, fifty or whatever, you know, produced in

588
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 3: America but full of you know, foreign parts, and so,

589
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 3: you know, is a headache. But of course, you know,

590
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: the German automakers, including Porsche, who bring cars over from Europe,

591
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: are really you know, going to struggle here. And you know,

592
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: the thing that I really bothers me is that, you know,

593
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: American cars in particular were already far too expensive. You know,

594
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: the average price where are you remind me forty five

595
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollars something like that.

596
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 4: And now what's going to.

597
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: Happen is that those affordable models, many of which were

598
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: being brought in from South Korea or from Mexico and

599
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 3: so forth, relatively smaller cars, very in margins, those are

600
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: the ones that are gonna, you know, suffer and ultimately

601
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: will probably be cut and some of them maybe will

602
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: be able to shift to the United States. But there's

603
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 3: a reason they weren't being produced in the United States

604
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: because it was too expensive. And so if you you know,

605
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: you stop being able to.

606
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 4: Provide new vehicles to.

607
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: Middle class, ordinary consumers, then you know, it's not a

608
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: good situation for the industry.

609
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 4: I think it's really sad.

610
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: Frankly, how soon do you expect that we are going

611
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: to see real effects of this? I mean, aside from

612
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: just when we go down to the dealership and try

613
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: to buy a new car, I'm talking effects in terms

614
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: of the mix on the road of American cars versus

615
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: foreign made cars. I mean, are we going to see

616
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: a change a year from now?

617
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 3: I mean, I do think it'll take some time to

618
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 3: feed through. I mean, the tariffs came into force today,

619
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: but we've still got, you know, to wait a bit

620
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 3: for the can sorry for the part situation. Just in

621
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 3: the last few minutes, actually, we've had Canada come out

622
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: and say that we're going to do, you know, basically

623
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 3: the same to the United States that the US has

624
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 3: done to us, and we'll have to wait and see

625
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: what other kind of retaliation we'll have as a result

626
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 3: of this as well. So I don't think we've heard

627
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: the last of it. Yeah, but I mean this, yeah,

628
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: to be blunt, is going to be severe, and it's

629
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: going to be really really tough on this industry where

630
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 3: you know, if the hope is that carmakers are going

631
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: to reach are production, then you want these carmakers to

632
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 3: be profitable, and instead they're going to take massive hits

633
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: to their earnings, which is earnings that they can't invest.

634
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: And I recognize that, you know, the United States was

635
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 3: importing a lot of cars.

636
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 4: Uh you know, roughly half.

637
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: Of the US production was being imported. But at the

638
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 3: same time, it was you know, considered to be a

639
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: good thing that Mexico, Canada and the United States had

640
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: created this kind of automotive plane where people could could

641
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 3: could trade and supply chains were set up accordingly. And

642
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 3: to just overnight say we're not doing that anymore is

643
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: to you know, cause huge problems for the industry.

644
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: I would guess, by the way, Hannah, that the mixed

645
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: shifts in terms of used cars and new cars because

646
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: to Chris's point, you know, the affordable cars that were

647
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: dragging the average price down to forty five or fifty

648
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, they won't be sold here anymore, or they won't.

649
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: Potentially, I mean, they won't be that cheap. Said that.

650
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: Did you see that piece?

651
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: Yes? But I think the American cars that you would

652
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: think more people would have to buy are just so

653
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 2: exorbitantly expensive. I was looking yesterday at a Chevy suburban

654
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 2: and if you want the six point two liters of

655
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 2: V eight, it starts at eighty six thousand dollars.

656
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 4: It's a lot of Wow.

657
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: That's like supposed to be a middle class family vehicle, right,

658
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: but it's twice as much as like the average income

659
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: and you know in flyover country. So I just can't

660
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: believe people are going to be able to buy new

661
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: cars anymore, and you won't be able to find the

662
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: little inexpensive ones from Korea.

663
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 3: We've had this record before too. I mean, this is

664
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: essentially what happened in the pandemic, right The price of

665
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: new vehicles went up, the the supply went down, and

666
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 3: the users market exploded in prices rose. And I'm sure

667
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 3: we're going to see a similar thing again where people,

668
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 3: as you say, forced out of the new market have

669
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: to buy used and that's going to, you know, put

670
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: pressure on prices again. It's going to create inflation, and

671
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that's what we.

672
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: Want, Chris. Is there any sense that there will be

673
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: like a flip flop, for lack of a better word,

674
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: that a year from now, President Trump and this administration

675
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: are going to say, actually never mind, you know, we're

676
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: going back to what it was before.

677
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: Wait, you doubt the stability of President Trump's policies.

678
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean, just a question next year or next week,

679
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, is there any likelihood of that?

680
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: I wish I had a crystal ball, but I would

681
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 3: say this, I think Trump has been relatively consistent, not

682
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 3: just about tariffs, but particularly about the order industry. He's

683
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: always had a bone to pick with, you know, car imports,

684
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 3: specifically ones for example. This has been a constant, you know.

685
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 3: And the fact that you know, it didn't we didn't

686
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 3: have more you know, radical tariffs in the first time,

687
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 3: I don't think it should blind us to the fact

688
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: that this has been something that he's been wanting to

689
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 3: do for a while, I think, And so now I

690
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: don't really expect you know, a massive climb down from this,

691
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 3: you know, as we've seen today. I mean, you've had

692
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: a terrible reaction in the market to you know, Liberation Day, tariffs,

693
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 3: stocks melting down, the dollar, you know, selling off.

694
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 4: And you know, I used to think.

695
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 3: Of Trump as the kind of you know, the president

696
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 3: of of sort of business in the stock market who

697
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 3: judged himself by the fact that you know, stocks went up, right,

698
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 3: and now doesn't seem to care about any of that anymore.

699
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 3: And you know his hope, of course, I should mention

700
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: this to be fair is to you know, return manufacturing

701
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: to the United States and create jobs and all the

702
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 3: rest of it. But you know, these people who you

703
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: know working manufacturing plants also need to be able to

704
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 3: afford cars.

705
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: I just kept thinking. I mean, on the one hand,

706
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: I guess union wages are around eighty dollars an hour,

707
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: which is which is good, But you're still not going

708
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: to be able to buy a suburban. Uh, it's just

709
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 2: going to be out of their out of their reach.

710
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: So let's bookend this discussion with Aston Martin. I think

711
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: it's great to start with a Portia and Bugatti, stop

712
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: in the middle to talk about middle class cars and tariffs.

713
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 4: And then affordable car. Now back to election.

714
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 2: So I just you know, I have heard Laurence Stroll's

715
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: pitch for why Aston Martin should be worth more, and

716
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: I leave there saying like, yeah, man, he's totally right. Uh,

717
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: it should be worth at least, you know, like half

718
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 2: of a Ferrari valuation. But I think you pointed out

719
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 2: in uh when you wrote a column about this a

720
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: couple of days ago, that it's only like one percent

721
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: of Ferrari's valuation. And what is the problem with Aston

722
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: Martin Because even if you find flaws here and there

723
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: with their vehicles, they're still like iconic cars that I

724
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: think most people would love to drive or even own.

725
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 3: I think if you hit the nail on the head,

726
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I think there is a lot of passion

727
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: for this brand. I think they do produce very highly

728
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: desirable vehicles, and yet somehow they always contrived to kind

729
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 3: of get it wrong. And part of that was the thing.

730
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 3: You know, the original IPO was a little oversold, a

731
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 3: lot of hype. You know, they went public at a

732
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: kind of four billion valuation, and then they learned that,

733
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 3: you know, supply and demand. They've always had a bit

734
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 3: of a job to get that right. They wanted to

735
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: grow stroll for example, how this target you wanted to

736
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 3: get to ten thousand units a year. I think they

737
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 3: sold six thousand last year. And you've had these periods

738
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 3: throughout the asked in history where you get the kind

739
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 3: of build up of stock on deed of four courts,

740
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: and you know that then causes all kinds of problems,

741
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 3: you know, to reduce prices or it hits the residual

742
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: values and so forth, and then you have to like

743
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: sort it out again. So the currently they're in the

744
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: process of trying to balance supply and demand again, which

745
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 3: means reducing wholesales and all the rest of it. And

746
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: you know it contributes to this kind of stop start

747
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: profit warning here there capital rais you know again and

748
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: again and you know, stroll again. You know, he's a

749
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: billionaire many times over from his days in the fashion world.

750
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 3: But I don't think he probably expected to have to

751
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 3: put as much money as he's had to put into

752
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: Aston Martin as he's done. I think now his consortium

753
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 3: is you know, it's about six hundred of million of

754
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 3: change they put in. Now hopefully that will be the

755
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 3: end of it, with the fifty million he put in

756
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: this week. But again back to your evaluation point. You know,

757
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: he owns a Formula one team as well, which carries

758
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: the same name, and I mean, look at what's happened

759
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 3: to F one team valuations.

760
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 4: Now, I think his Aston Martin.

761
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: Team, which is you know, by no means the most expensive,

762
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,479
Speaker 3: has a one point eight billion pound enterprise value or something,

763
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 3: which you know, we're talking three times what this car

764
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 3: company that sells you know, thousands of vehicles a year

765
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 3: in employees, I don't know how many people. You know,

766
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 3: there's a huge golf there now and clearly, you know

767
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 3: that's partly because the economics of F one have changed.

768
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 3: I mean F one teams now make money they didn't

769
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 3: before that, the huge trophy assets, you know, the story

770
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 3: f You know, US fans are bracing all the rest

771
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 3: of it, whereas the car industry remains capital intensive, you know,

772
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 3: periods of pricing difficulties, supply demand and all the rest

773
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 3: of it. And yeah, Aston's had some problems too that

774
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 3: you know, they haven't always got everything right technically. Coming

775
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 3: back to our HyperCard discussion, I mean, they produced the

776
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 3: Valkyrie goodness me. I mean I think one person involved

777
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 3: in that project that it almost bankrupted the company.

778
00:40:52,840 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 2: You know what beauty though that yeah, I mean wow, Yeah.

779
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 3: If you do things like that, and they really really

780
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 3: pushed the push the boat on that one, then you

781
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 3: know you have problems. And clearly that you know, they

782
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 3: had all kinds of engineering difficulties with that, I think.

783
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 3: But now the next one is the Valhalla, which is

784
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: kind of like I think they refer to it as

785
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: sort of like a hypercar at supercar price and delivery.

786
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: They call it not nearly as nice.

787
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 3: There you go, let's just hope that they have an

788
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 3: easier job producing that vehicle, because that will be a

789
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: real test for the company. Now and they've got this

790
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 3: sort of very sensible sounding, very reliable CEO now who

791
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 3: did a great job at Bentley. Bentley was another one

792
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: like never used to make money at Folk Sparden and

793
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 3: now is making twenty profit margins, which is you know, great,

794
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: and they hope he'll be able to repeat the magic

795
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: at Aston.

796
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 4: But I don't know.

797
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: People have been burned so many times by this company,

798
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: you know, not just recently and it's you know, stop

799
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 3: market history, but before that's I think seven times bankrupt

800
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: or whatever.

801
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: While we're on the topic of Adrian, you know, he's

802
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: coming from this very disciplined German ownership company and of

803
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: course very conservative Bentley and everything. You know, a very

804
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: nice guy. Everything I hear about him, and he is

805
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: he's great in a crisis. Does that model will that

806
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: work at Aston Martin? I mean, it's a completely different culture,

807
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: and you know, from what I hear, they really desperately

808
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: do need discipline. So now they've got their discipline Daddy

809
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: and Adrian Hallmark. Is that gonna work well?

810
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 3: I think it will as long as they let him

811
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 3: get on with the job. I mean my impression, I

812
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 3: mean it is a bit unfair, was that, you know,

813
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: Lawrence Strall, he's executive chairman and maybe like to kind

814
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 3: of get involved quite a lot, and they really just

815
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 3: need to let Adrian do his thing. I think they

816
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 3: will now, And I think we had a we had

817
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 3: a good Bloomberg News feature on the company a couple

818
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 3: of months ago where they said exactly that that they

819
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 3: they were going to give the freedom to kind of,

820
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 3: you know, execute his plan. Now it's is all very straightforward,

821
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 3: sensible stuff, you know, not like spending a fortune developing

822
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: new vehicles all the time, but you know, trying to

823
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: produce derivatives, trying to push the personalization thing.

824
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 4: That they're already doing pretty well on.

825
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 3: By the way, they're at like I think eighteen percent

826
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: of revenue from personalization. Now that's kind of Ferrari levels.

827
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 3: They're probably not getting the same kind of pricing, but

828
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean that they're they're well

829
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: advanced down that path, and so they can do that

830
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 3: and get these programs delivered on time, not have dealers

831
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 3: clogged with inventory again. They've got a brand new lineup

832
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 3: of vehicles now, all of them have been refreshed, including

833
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 3: the DBX, which is their SUV which I've I'm not

834
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 3: a huge fan of, but they've done a good job

835
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: now out with the refresh I think the interior looks better.

836
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 1: Good.

837
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: But don't you like about that? We love it.

838
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 4: You love the DVXSSIV.

839
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's really fun to drive. It's uh,

840
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 2: sounds great, feels great. As you say, the interior has

841
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: been updated and is pretty fantastic, I guess.

842
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 3: And look, but they're currently only selling I think three

843
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 3: or four thousand of a year. I mean, I think

844
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: the Benti Yaga, which is also a matter of taste,

845
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 3: but you know that sells a lot more, and that's

846
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: key to the economics of these companies. You know, that's

847
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: been obviously very very important for all of these companies

848
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 3: that they have SUVs that sell. And I think Aston

849
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 3: needs to do more with it's on, hopefully by you know,

850
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: better marketing and so forth, that they can they can

851
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 3: boost the volumes of that because that was obviously be

852
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 3: very instrumental in driving a return to profits, which is

853
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 3: what we need to see. I mean, this is a

854
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: company that just has lost money, but for years, years

855
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: and years he is and they're promising this year and

856
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 3: this year finally we're going to be profitable and we're

857
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 3: going to generate cash. If they can do that for

858
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: a few quarters, you know, things could change.

859
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: It's kind of it is kind of like you're in

860
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: this dysfunctional relationship where it's just like, just lie to

861
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,479
Speaker 1: me one more time, and I'll still believe you because

862
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: you're beautiful, because the cars are beautiful, and we all

863
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 1: want it to succeed, and it's such a known thing

864
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: and we love James Bond and all of these things,

865
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: and we just take it because we want to believe.

866
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: I've dated Aston Martin before and I wanted to break

867
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: up for like years. It took me years to finally

868
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: get the courage to leave her. But yeah, I think,

869
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 2: first of all, I want to say that the Benega

870
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: like objectively, is fugly right, and the.

871
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: Aid Martin looks far better than Yes, yeah, bar none,

872
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: I mean no comparison three on that.

873
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: Yes, we all agree. I think I also wanted to

874
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: point out just as an aside, there are a couple

875
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: interesting connections between the Bugatti terbillone and the Aston Martin Valkyrie. Right,

876
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 2: Cosworth makes or at least worked on both of the

877
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 2: internal combustion engines, and Rimac clearly did both of the

878
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: electric drive trains. So that's pretty cool that we can

879
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: get from one to the other.

880
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: Well, this ties into another sort of bookend question that

881
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask Chris, was when we're talking about these,

882
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, hypercars that are the halo cars for the brand,

883
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: whether it's the Turbion or the Valkyrie in Valhalla or

884
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: whatever hypercar Portia is or is not making. Obviously the

885
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: fans want those, But to your point Chris and your

886
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: column about Bugatti, those are lost leaders often. So what

887
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 1: is the rationale at these companies, whether it's Aston Martin

888
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: or Porsche, to make a halo hypercar that they might

889
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: lose money on but then maybe it generates value and

890
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: hype for the brand in other ways. Can you walk

891
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: us through that, because at this point it's like, well,

892
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: if you're losing money, why make them?

893
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: Well I think that's right, Hannah, and I think the

894
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: point is that, like it isn't always the lost leader

895
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: you can make good money. And I was looking, for example,

896
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 3: look at can exec right, They've managed to really you know,

897
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: turn around the good business now and I think they

898
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: probably have hopes for producing higher volumes that they're even

899
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 3: making I believe for for Seedar.

900
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: Hyper carnal camera.

901
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 3: Yes, you know it's not you know, obviously not making billions,

902
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: but like you know, I think they are profitable and

903
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: you know, they've done that on the huge constraints, capital

904
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 3: constraints in the fact that these vehicles, you know, they

905
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: have to build them and get them homologated, which means

906
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 3: you know, they've got to pass all the rules and

907
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 3: regulations surrounding emissions and safety and all the rest of it.

908
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: Really hard nuts crack. But you know, the promises is

909
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 3: the Ferrari thing, right, if you can industrialize that process

910
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: and you can get people queuing up to buy these cars.

911
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 3: And now Ferrari have got this e factory where they're

912
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 3: able to turn out you know, a huge amount of

913
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 3: space and develop them and not just of course the

914
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 3: hyper cars. So you know, if you really get the

915
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 3: business model chraining, then you have a vehicle like the

916
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 3: the SP three, which is not the height of technology.

917
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 3: It's not about being like the absolute, you know, best

918
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: of the best, high performance, so you can make huge

919
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 3: margins on a car like that. Because actually, if I'm honest,

920
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 3: if you gave me the choice tomorrow, and I hope

921
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 3: somebody will between an f AD and SP three, I

922
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 3: would take the SP three and that would have been

923
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 3: really good back because of course those cars now I

924
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 3: believe they were like a couple of million new and

925
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 3: now they're trading up. I was told the other day

926
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 3: by a dealer like two or three million over.

927
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: This is the dog that everyone it's chasing.

928
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 4: No, that's what they want.

929
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: And so people are buying the FAD just to get

930
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 3: the SP four or because they just have to have

931
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: the FAD in their collection. So if you could develop

932
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 3: a business model, well people buying cars not because they

933
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 3: love them, because they just feel they have to have them.

934
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 4: And that's an excellent business mode.

935
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 3: Now, not everybody can achieve that, but I'm sure that's

936
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 3: that that's the hope of many of these.

937
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: Come course, I guess that that's the reason why you

938
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 2: shell out for the F eighty. You're like, yeah, I'll

939
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: take the V six, you know, because I want to

940
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 2: get awesome. Dude, I'm so glad that you write for us,

941
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: and it was great to be able to work next

942
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: to you for a few a few quick years, a

943
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: few brief years in the Berlin office. But we'll have

944
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 2: to have you on.

945
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 4: Again, please do. I love it. Thank you.

946
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: That was Chris Bryant, my old buddy from Berlin.

947
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: So cool, too, enlightning.

948
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, to hear from him, and he so thought full

949
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 2: on these things. And I know because I lived well,

950
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 2: I didn't live in the office, but I spent a

951
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 2: lot of time in the office, and he was one

952
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: of the other people that was reliably always in the

953
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: office on freezer plots. I can't believe you've never been

954
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: to Berlin, by the way.

955
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know. I find it shocking myself.

956
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: I've been. I feel like I've been to every other

957
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 1: town in Germany, but I have not been to Berlin.

958
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: And I think that I like it the best.

959
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely up your alley. I know, like you

960
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: would really appreciate the people and the culture. It's very

961
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: different from the rest of Germany.

962
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to rain on Stuttgart,

963
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 1: but I have to imagine that Berlin is a little

964
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: more interesting.

965
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 2: The mustaches in Berlin are ironic as opposed to those

966
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 2: in Stuttgart. They're meant very sincerely.

967
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: Ironic and iconic. I love it. Have I ever told

968
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: you my family's from Fulda? The German side of my

969
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: family tell me that, Oh, yes, the Mullenhauer side, the

970
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: German side. The Mullenhauers are from Fulda. So I've been.

971
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I truly have been in a lot of

972
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: places in Germany, Hamburg, Frankfurt, you know, Munich, Dusel, Dwarf,

973
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: all all of them. But no Berlin.

974
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: So none of my family is German, but I would

975
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 2: be there. My brother, my dad all went to boarding

976
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: school on Switzerland, so we all speak German. And I

977
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: have a somewhat of a preference for German cars. I

978
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 2: just feel I feel like they're so solidly engineered and built.

979
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: Stuff doesn't just fall off of a German car like

980
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: it will with an Italian car or No.

981
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: I just had a really sad thought, what does does

982
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,280
Speaker 1: this mean we're not going to get German cars anymore?

983
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 2: I hope that's not the case. I hope that's not

984
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: the case. Love, I do love the US product, so I.

985
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: Don't it's not competitive. Oh come on, man, it's not competitive.

986
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: You've got to drive the Escalade IQ.

987
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: Right, I did. And it's funny you mentioned that piece

988
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: will be in the magazine next week.

989
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 2: All right, So are you still not allowed to tell

990
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: us you're driving Impressions or Oh.

991
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: Well, I certainly can. Maybe we talk about it though

992
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: when it publishes. But in general, I would say best

993
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: of the bunch. I mean best of the bunch.

994
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I love obviously, I have a soft spot

995
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: in my heart for the F one fifty and so

996
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: many different variants, and I love the GM trucks and

997
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: especially the SUVs, you know, the Tahoe and the Yukon.

998
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: Just gonna have to drive corvettes, I guess.

999
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: And corvettes obviously. It's a supercar, so I love that

1000
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:42,439
Speaker 2: one too.

1001
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take that, babe.

1002
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 2: By the way, I have coming to me today. I

1003
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: am testing out an American and they say it's the

1004
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: only American made motorcycle. It's it's a brand that you

1005
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: cannot yet by this motorcycle from which you cannot yet

1006
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 2: buy this motorcycle. But Buel is going to drop off

1007
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 2: their new Supercruiser or the prototype of their Supercruiser. You know.

1008
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,919
Speaker 2: Buell Motorcycles, I know of them.

1009
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: I don't think used to be.

1010
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 2: Used to be owned by Harley Davidson. They made really cool,

1011
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 2: kind of eclectic bikes. Eric Buell was I mean, his

1012
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: thought was lower the center of gravity as much as possible,

1013
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: So he was like he was one of the first

1014
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 2: or at least of recent bike makers to put the

1015
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 2: exhaust under the motorcycle, you know, and then everybody Ducatti

1016
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: started doing with the Panagalis. But Harley, I you know,

1017
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: I guess that business somehow failed at Harley Davidson, and

1018
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 2: I think it went bankrupt. So for seven years they

1019
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: couldn't really do anything.

1020
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 1: Did you say that they are They claim that they're

1021
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: the first American.

1022
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 2: The only American motorcycles. So what they say about Harley Davidson,

1023
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I said.

1024
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: I was Harley May.

1025
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: I ran into I ran into the CEO and owner

1026
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: at uh In Austin, at the Moto GP and one

1027
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 2: of his one of his people, was saying that one

1028
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 2: of his engineers he was working at the buel stand

1029
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 2: and I said, what about Harley? And she said something

1030
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: to the extent of less than half of the components,

1031
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 2: you know, Harley Davidson are actually made in America.

1032
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: That's royally splitting hairs.

1033
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: What about Arch I don't even know if it's true.

1034
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: What about Zero? I could list you other brands.

1035
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about Zero, because I don't think there's

1036
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 2: a motor. Is it that's an electric You're not.

1037
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: Gonna call a zero motor motorcycle? Honest on a contingency.

1038
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: Maybe, but I would guess they also have componentry that's

1039
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 2: not all made well.

1040
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: Everybody has componentry that's not well.

1041
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 2: This is the idea of Buell. The idea is that

1042
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 2: greater than half, like the Lion share. I think they

1043
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 2: say seventy percent of their components are made right here

1044
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: in the US of A. And this is something that

1045
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: we are paying a lot more attention to right apparently.

1046
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: Tesla apparently sixty to eighty percent. I've heard different estimates.

1047
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 2: Sixty to eighty percent of their components are made in

1048
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 2: the US, and obviously the cars for sale here are

1049
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 2: also assembled here. That's far more than any other car maker.

1050
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: I think with Ford and GM it's something like fifty

1051
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,320
Speaker 2: three percent, but it's more than that with Honda, Honda

1052
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: sixty four percent.

1053
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also let's not forget that Mercedes. Companies like

1054
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: Mercedes and BMW literally are making cars in America, right,

1055
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: So yes, they're.

1056
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 2: Not with foreign parts, right, just order all the parts.

1057
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 2: And by the way, I was having a discussion with

1058
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 2: with a European motorcycle maker this weekend. They're worried about

1059
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 2: the tariffs and they are actually evaluating the idea of

1060
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 2: just sending the motorcycle here in parts and assembling it. Yeah,

1061
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: at a US address.

1062
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: Of course, because there's it's all shades of gray. There

1063
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: is not a single car that only uses and is

1064
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: only uses American made parts and is assembled in America

1065
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: and sold in I don't think there's a single one, Karma.

1066
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 2: But Tesla is near as damn it to that. I mean,

1067
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: they are pretty close to being fully made in America.

1068
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: I mean, but Tesla would be on its way out.

1069
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 1: This is the worst of times for Tesla.

1070
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 2: Really seeing more and more bumper stickers that say I

1071
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 2: bought my Tesla before Elon went crazy, yeah, or something

1072
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 2: to that effect.

1073
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,439
Speaker 1: I know, and I mean this this is not meant

1074
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 1: to be a political statement, but I've never cared where

1075
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: stuff is made. I don't understand why we can't have

1076
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: Italian marble, French wine, Swiss chocolate, Italian leather, British tweed.

1077
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: American luxury is not enough for me. I need the

1078
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:07,479
Speaker 1: world's fair, you know. I would like Japanese sake and

1079
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: Scottish whiskey.

1080
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1081
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: This, these are the best of the best. I want

1082
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: the best of the world. Why don't you want that too?

1083
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 2: No, I totally do. But I think there's a there

1084
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 2: are a few different issues. One is, you know, obviously

1085
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: the populist drive is to give jobs that people that

1086
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 2: live to people that live here, right, And then I

1087
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 2: do care a lot of times where my clothing is

1088
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: made really tools Japan. But that's yeah, because I want

1089
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: high quality stuff, I know, right, you know, if I

1090
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 2: buy something that's you know, woven, cut and sewn in America,

1091
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: it's just or in Japan. Obviously it's just likely to

1092
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 2: be higher quality. Well, you're some eleven year old puts

1093
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: it together in Sri Lanka, right, But.

1094
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: The fact that you're buying Japanese denim implies that you're

1095
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: not satisfied with a denim and you're not wearing Levi's.

1096
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 2: I'm mostly not, but that's because you know, the old

1097
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: looms that were made back when American teens were high quality,

1098
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 2: we were sold to the Japanese at World War Two.

1099
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 1: I know, you know what's really wild. I was just

1100
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: at Levi's, like special itelier, and they were saying how

1101
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: difficult it is to source vintage Levi's because they for

1102
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, their VIPs and stuff. Yeah, like it's extremely hard.

1103
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: And they were saying exactly what you said, which is,

1104
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: we were so stupid to give away all of those

1105
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: looms to Japan because now Japan just runs the market

1106
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: and they're so smart, and you know, kudos to them

1107
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: for that.

1108
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 2: True. And now I have to use chat shept to

1109
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 2: translate all of my uh, all of my letters into Japanese,

1110
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: and then I send them to the Flathead and I say,

1111
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: please send me these T shirts.

1112
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: And I just don't want to. I don't want to.

1113
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to lose all of these beautiful luck

1114
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: uxtory things that we've become accustomed to. We've become accustomed

1115
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: to a certain level of lifestyle, and of course, but

1116
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm a first world girl.

1117
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: I don't want to lose. To Chris's point, also, the affordability, right,

1118
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I want people in this country to be

1119
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 2: able to get good paying jobs without being you know,

1120
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 2: incredibly gifted, talented, extraordinary people. Right, just go to a job,

1121
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 2: make enough money to raise a family. On the other hand,

1122
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 2: if those products aren't going to be affordable to any

1123
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 2: of those people, what's the point. I guess I was

1124
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 2: thinking yesterday, maybe not everybody gets to drive a car?

1125
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 2: Is that the idea? Like, not everybody needs to have

1126
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: access to this.

1127
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: I would love it if all ride bicycles everywhere. Honestly,

1128
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: I think that would be first of all, for sure

1129
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: be a better world if everyone rode motorcycles or bicycles,

1130
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: no question about that.

1131
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, for sure. Yeah.

1132
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: And second of all, even in other countries, the people

1133
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 1: who are assembling Ferraris and Rolls Royces are not purchasing

1134
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: Ferraris and Rolls Royce. Good, there's more thing unusual about that.

1135
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 2: That's a good point. But if you're you.

1136
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: Are sewing in Dor's workshops, are not wearing Dor couture.

1137
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: If you're assembling, you know, a pickup truck at the rouge,

1138
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 2: you should be able to afford to buy that pickup truck.

1139
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: That was the idea with Henry Ford. Right, I'm gonna

1140
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 2: pay them five dollars a day so that they can

1141
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 2: buy the Model Ta or whatever it was.

1142
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: I'm more capitalists than that.

1143
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 2: I learn more and more things about you every every day, Hannah,

1144
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 2: you got anything cool coming up?

1145
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: I'm driving a Volvo this week. Last week I had

1146
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: Have you had cheese car? Yeah? Have you had the

1147
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: a MG cle E Mercedes? Speaking of German cars?

1148
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: I it's have I have not? But I am a

1149
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 2: huge fan of the cle Yeah, sleeper hit.

1150
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: It's a complete completely I was like, what loved it,

1151
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: really loved it?

1152
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 2: Which one is it the fifty three or the sixty three?

1153
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: Fifty three? I'm looking at the Maroni right now. Actually

1154
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: it's the fifty three. The AMG starting price seventy two eight,

1155
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: which is cheaper than the Escalade or the whatever sub

1156
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,919
Speaker 1: you mentioned. Yeah, it's an inline six four and forty

1157
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: three horse power and that's all you need. That's really

1158
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: that's really all you need.

1159
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 2: But wait, we're talking about a coup, right, why would

1160
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 2: you compare it to the Escalade?

1161
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: Well, because you just mentioned earlier that not an Escalade,

1162
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: but whatever, the Silverado or some suburban you are I

1163
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: can't remember all the suburban. Yeah, and you mentioned it

1164
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 1: was like eighty six thousand, And I'm saying this with

1165
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: the options, this incredible luxury product, AMG. No less starts

1166
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: at seventy two. I actually think that's a rather good deal.

1167
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 2: No, it's I mean they are I love They're so

1168
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 2: high there, so luxurious.

1169
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: It looked good too, It looks super good.

1170
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: To be fair, you can get a suburban with a

1171
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 2: five point three leader, the tried and true V eight

1172
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 2: for much less. But I'm just saying six point two

1173
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: a pay up.

1174
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh. Also, I did have the urus Se, which

1175
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: I think we've already talked about. I had that to

1176
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: the Lamborghini Uru, the one you did, the one you did,

1177
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 1: which only we don't need to get into it other

1178
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: than to say it only confirmed my thought that it's

1179
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,439
Speaker 1: the best suv on the market right now period. I'm

1180
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: not saying it's my favorite, but I'm saying it's the best.

1181
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 2: Do you feel like when you close the doors there's

1182
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: not that solidity that you want from an SUV? I

1183
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 2: feel that well, they made of carbon fiber.

1184
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: If you want solidity, you're gonna have to go with

1185
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: the g. Let's be honest, I mean, speaking of favorites, agreed,

1186
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: What are you doing this weekend?

1187
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 2: All right? Uh, let's see this weekend, I'm just gonna

1188
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: be driving this Buele. I'm riding this duel. I'm going

1189
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 2: to I had this buel American made motorcycle like an

1190
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 2: hour north of here to Danbury, Connecticut, where I will

1191
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 2: test drive a road King And we have yet to

1192
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 2: determine how American that is. But I'm going to test

1193
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 2: drive a road King to see if I prefer it

1194
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 2: to the Fat Bob.

1195
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: And is this this is one that's for sale specifically, yes,

1196
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: that you might be coming home with.

1197
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I'm pretty sure I want the

1198
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 2: Fat Bob. I rented it with riders Share in Austin

1199
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 2: over the weekend and I had a great experience with that,

1200
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 2: the Turow of motorcycles. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm just I

1201
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 2: have a two wheel weekend ahead of me.

1202
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: Wow, you're really I feel like you're riding more bikes

1203
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: than ever these days.

1204
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 2: It's well not since I mean before I had kids,

1205
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 2: you know, it was every day, but I get it.

1206
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: But now whenever I can awesome. Well that's all for

1207
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 2: this week, I guess We'll see each other back here,

1208
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 2: same time, same place next week.

1209
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg.

1210
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: M