1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Rowe was egregiously wrong from the start, Its reasoning was 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: exceptionally weak, and the decision has had damaging consequences and 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: Roe and Casey have inflamed debate and deepened division. We 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled. I am 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: not simply speaking for myself and Senator Ted Cruz. I 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: am reading the words of Justice Samuel Alito, who is 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: apparently writing the majority opinion of the Court in a 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: leaked document, a document that was leaked in what the 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: Chief Justice John Roberts calls a singular and egregious breach 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: of trust on the Supreme Court. We're gonna be talking 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: to someone who knows a whole lot about the Court, 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: a whole lot about the issue, and a whole lot 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: about what happens now. 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If you call them right now, 77 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: then they will give you up to fifteen hundred dollars 78 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: of free silver on your first order. So don't wait, 79 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: call them right now. Call eight five five seven six 80 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: eight one eight eight three, or if you prefer texting, 81 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: you can text the word tactus to six five five 82 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: three two. Again, the phone number is eight five five seven, 83 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: six eight one eight eight three, or text the word 84 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: tactus to six five five three two. Welcome back to 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: Verdict with Ted Cruz. I'm Michael Knowls, Senator. I have 86 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: seven bazillion questions to ask you about this. You've just 87 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: come from the Capital. We have not even had a 88 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: prep call yet, we have not talked about anything. Tell 89 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: me everything that I need to know about this leaked 90 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: document from the Supreme Court. Well, let's start on the substance. 91 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: The substance is this is a big damn deal. Assuming 92 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: that the report warding that a company that this league 93 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: is accurate. It turns out what you and I discussed 94 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: on this podcast days after the oral argument appears to 95 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: be exactly right. On this podcast, you and I talked 96 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: about what the justices were likely to do. I had 97 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: listened to the argument very carefully, and what I told 98 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: you at the time is that I believe there were 99 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: six votes to uphold the Mississippi law, the Mississippi law 100 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: restricting abortion after fifteen weeks. And I also thought there 101 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: were five votes to overrule Row versus Wade in its entirety. 102 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: So there's a distinction to be out there because the 103 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: case at issue, or the law at issue, is this 104 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: pro life law in Mississippi. So you could have a 105 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 1: world in which you have different judges voting to uphold 106 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: or strike down that law. Then you would have to 107 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: go all the way back and overrule Revue Weight and 108 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: planned parenthoodbe Casey, which invented the constitutional right to an abortion. 109 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: That that's exactly right. And what Maya's assessment was from 110 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: listening to the oral argument is that John Roberts, the 111 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: Chief Justice, seemed prepared to uphold the Mississippi law, but 112 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: he wanted to find a way to do it without 113 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: overruling Row versus Weight. And remember I went into this 114 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: argument deeply skeptical. I was not convinced there were five 115 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: votes on the Court to overturn Row. I knew there 116 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: were two. I knew Justice Alito and Justice Thomas, They'd 117 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: both been quite public about that. But I had real 118 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: skepticism about Kavanaugh, about Gorsitch, and about Barrett. From listening 119 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: to the oral argument, all three seemed to be clearly 120 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: leaning in in support of overturning Row, and from this 121 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: opinion it appears that's exactly how they voted. Well, I 122 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: guess we also have to establish first, this leaked document 123 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: that went to Politico on Monday night and then was 124 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: released to the broader public, the document is legit correct. 125 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: This is an actual draft opinion from the Supreme Court. 126 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: So it is the Court has confirmed that that this 127 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: is a real draft opinion. And I got to say, 128 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: that is a big damn deal. Like when this came out, 129 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: that this came out Monday night, I was having dinner 130 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: with some friends. You know me, Well, I am rarely 131 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: at a loss for words. It's true. I was genuinely speechless. 132 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: And it's difficult to convey to someone who doesn't regularly 133 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: practice in front of the court, who doesn't interact with 134 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court often, the magnitude of the breach this represents. 135 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: It is stunning at a level that is horrifying. In 136 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: over two centuries of our country's history, never, not even once, 137 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: has a draft opinion leaked from the US Supreme Court 138 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: for this to happen. The Court has been this goes 139 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: right to the heart of the integritegrity of the court, 140 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: and it goes right to judicial independence. And I promise 141 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: you this entire day has been like an earthquake at 142 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court because it undermines the ability of the 143 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: Court to do its job. And what it means happened? 144 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: I think in all likelihood, what it means is that 145 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: there was a left wing law clerk who was upset 146 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: at how the justices voted and decided to leak this opinion. 147 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: And just as a matter of procedure, you've got all 148 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: these law clerks and what are they Are they on 149 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: an email threat or something? You know, this draft goes 150 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: back to February. So obviously the justices and the clerks 151 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: have been working on this for a long time. And 152 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: is it just that any clerk can see any of 153 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: these drafts? Is there any Is there gonna be any 154 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: way to identify who actually did this? I guess is 155 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: what I'm asking. So there may well be. So the 156 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: way it works is when a case is argued, shortly 157 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: after the argument, either on Wednesday or Friday, the court 158 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: meets in conference. Now, conference is a special room. The 159 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: conference room is actually attached to the chief justices chambers, 160 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: So there's a conference table. In conference, it is only 161 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: the nine justices. There's nobody else in the room. There's 162 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: no law clerk, there's no secretary. It's the nine justices. Actually, 163 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: the door leading to the conference room there two doors. 164 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: There's a door and then there's about three feet of space, 165 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: and then there's a second door. And the junior justice 166 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: is expected to get coffee for the others. And if 167 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: for some reason someone needs to pass a note to 168 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: the justices, you open the outer door, you put the 169 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: note on the floor, you knock on the inner door, 170 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: You close the outer door, and then the junior justice 171 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: goes and opens the inner door and gets the note. 172 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: It's it's like an airlock. At conference, the justices cast 173 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: their initial votes. In this instance, assuming the reporting is accurate, 174 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: six justices voted to uphold the Mississippi Statute and five 175 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: justices voted to overturn Row versus weight. When that happens, 176 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: the senior justice in the majority assigns the majority. Given 177 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: the line up here, it appears likely that that was 178 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: Justice Thomas, who was the senior justice in the majority, 179 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: and he chose to assign it to Justice Alito, who's 180 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: the next most senior justice in the majority, and Justice 181 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: Alito is a masterful opinion writer. Do you have any sense, Senator, 182 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: at knowing some of the people involved here and having 183 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time around the court, why would 184 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: Thomas not want to keep this for himself. This could 185 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: be the most important decision in the last hundred year. 186 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this could be one of the most important 187 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: decisions in American history. Yeah, I look, I don't have 188 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: a great answer to that. I'm actually a little bit surprised. 189 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: Justice Thomas didn't assign it to himself because he had 190 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: that prerogative. But he made the judgment, and as the 191 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: chief Justice, by definition, is the most senior justice in 192 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 1: the majority. But in this instance, he wasn't voting to 193 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: overturn Row versus Wade, so he would be writing his 194 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: own independent opinion. If he could get five justices, he 195 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: could assign the majority, but he was not willing to 196 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: overturn Row, according to the reporting, and so Thomas made 197 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: the assignment. Now, the way it works, once that's assigned, 198 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: the justice who's assigned the majority opinion goes back to 199 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: his or her chamber, and each justice has four law clerks. 200 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: There will be one law clerk who is the lead 201 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: law clerk on the opinion. So if there are four 202 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: of you, each of you have a quarter of the 203 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: cases before the term. The justice and the law clerk 204 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: will work together drafting the opinion, and when you prepare 205 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: an initial draft, you circulate it to all nine justices. 206 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: That's what this is. So that was the first draft. 207 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: Justice Alito circulated it to all nine justices. When that happens, 208 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: at that point, nobody has joined the opinion, So it's 209 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: not the opinion of the court. It is your draft 210 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,359 Speaker 1: that you're circulating to the other justices to get their opinions. 211 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: What happens next is multiple iterations of edits, where you'll 212 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: have individual justices that will say, hey, I don't like 213 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: this paragraph. Hey, can you change this sentence? Can you 214 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: add this footnote? Can you delete this footnote? Now, I 215 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 1: don't like the way this is structured. And on a 216 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,599 Speaker 1: run of the mill opinion, you could get dozens or 217 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: even hundreds of edits. On an opinion like this of 218 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: this magnitude, you would expect hundreds, if not even thousands, 219 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: of edits. This is for the history books. Every justice 220 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: has to decide whether he or she will join the 221 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: opinion in particular, the five justices and the majority here 222 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: have to make a decision whether they will join the opinion. 223 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: They may have all sorts of changes to it. And 224 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: if they don't join the opinion, then they write their 225 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: own concurring opinions, So they would they would be still 226 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: voting to overrule Row. But they might say, I just 227 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: don't agree with the way Alito is going about this. Yeah, 228 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: And they could do that, And you do get opinions. 229 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: You get sometimes cases where you have multiple opinions, concurring 230 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: opinions to sending opinions concurring in part to sending in part. 231 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: I mean it can get complicated. In order for the 232 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: opinion to be the majority opinion, the opinion of the court, 233 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: five justices have to join it. So it's consequential to 234 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: have a majority opinion because the opinion of the court 235 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: is precedent. And in this instance, I think the five 236 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: justices who presumably are voting to overturn Row, want there 237 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: to be an opinion of the court. So there's a 238 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: high unless there's something you cannot live with an opinion 239 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: with five justices as qualitatively different as legal matters. In 240 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: an opinion with just four. Also in response to the opinion, 241 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: other justices are working on a concurring opinion. So Roberts, 242 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: assuming he wants to uphold the statute but not over 243 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: rule Row, would file a concurring opinion where he concurs 244 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: in the judgment. In other words, he agrees with the 245 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: judgment that the law being challenged is valid, right, but 246 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: he concurs for a different reason. So he would not 247 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: overturn Row. But for whatever reason, he would lay out 248 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: he thinks that the law is valid. And then the dissenters, 249 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: presumably the three liberals on the court would write one 250 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: or two or even three to cents. My guess is 251 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: all three will write dissents. In this case, there will 252 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: probably be a lead dissent, and that's typically a signed 253 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: by the senior justice in the minority, But anyone can 254 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: write a dissent, and so someone is given the nod 255 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: of you be the lead dissenter, but there can be 256 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: additional ones. What happened here is somebody handed over to 257 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: the press the first iteration of this. You know, when 258 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: you start as a clerk, your first week as a clerk, 259 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: you sit down an orientation and they stress secrecy, They 260 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: stress everything done in the courts confidentially. You don't talk 261 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: about anything that happens at the court. You don't bring 262 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: draft opinions home. You do your work in the Supreme 263 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: Court building. So in any given night, the court is 264 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: full of law clerks at midnight, one in the morning 265 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: working on draft opinions and doing your work because you 266 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: don't bring the opinions home. And so there is a 267 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: a primacy on confidentiality and trust that somebody violated in 268 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: a way that is truly historic and stunning. So what 269 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: is going to happen to person? I know that the 270 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: Chief Justice sent out this statement today. He said, yes, 271 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: we're confirming this was a draft opinion. This is egregious. 272 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: This is a singular breach of trust here, and I'm 273 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: ordering the Marshal of the Court to launch an investigation 274 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: into the source of the league. One is he going 275 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: to be able to identify the source? And two? Did 276 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: this person break a law? I mean, is this going 277 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: to be a little slap on the wrist by John 278 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: Roberts or are we talking about jail time? So we're 279 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: talking about something very very serious. Let's start with the 280 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: first thing. I very much hope they find out who 281 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: the leaguer is. I think it is incredibly important that 282 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: they find this person. The Marshal of the Court, they 283 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: have considerable resources. There's a whole police force at the Court. 284 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: They're about five hundred officers at the Court. So the 285 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: Supreme Court takes separation of powers very seriously, so they 286 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: don't want they don't allow capitol police into the Supreme Court. 287 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: So the US capital has a whole capitol police force, 288 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court they're a third branch of government. 289 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: They're not part of the Congress, and so capital pet police, 290 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: in their view, have no business in their building. You know, 291 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: they don't generally handle law enforcement investigations. What the Supreme 292 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: Court police typically do is stop protests and threats to 293 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: the justices of the Court. But that being said, they're 294 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: pretty considerable security measures at the court. And it's also 295 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: a limited universe. So at several reporters asked today what 296 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: if it was a justice that did this. I gotta 297 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: tell you, I just don't believe that. It is such 298 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: a grotesque violation of trust. To me, it is beyond 299 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: imagination that a justice would do this. It to use 300 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: the nuclear code example, it's it's like the president handing 301 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: the nuclear codes to putin it just I cannot believe 302 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: even the most left wing justice would do this. I 303 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: think it is very very likely a law clerk, and 304 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: it is very very likely a law clerk for one 305 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: of the three liberal justices. That means there are twelve 306 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: human beings who are your likely suspect pool. That's not 307 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: a big likely suspect pool. It is likely to be 308 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: someone who is a hard partisan and who was willing 309 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: to burn the place down because he or she was 310 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: so upset about what happens. If I were to guess 311 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: the most likely justice for whom the law clerk is 312 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: clerking as Sonya Sotomayor, because she's the most partisan of 313 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: the justices and so she's the most likely to hire 314 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: wild eyed partisans as clerks. I have no evidence of that. 315 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: I'm just just making an inference. And with respect to 316 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: the chain of custody, Look, the Supreme Court has technology. 317 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: Actually when you print out opinions, I don't want to 318 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: get into the details of how, but they are printed 319 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: out with identifying materials that forensically you can find out 320 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: where they were printed out from, whether they are able 321 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: to track that down or not. In this instance will 322 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: depend on whether they can get a copy of the 323 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: actual opinion. Politico just put up a PDF. But the 324 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: Supreme Court has taken pretty significant steps towards security. So 325 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: as a law clerk, for example, when you're editing an opinion, 326 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: you do it on the computer. If you print an 327 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: opinion out, you can print it and read it in 328 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: your office and you can edit it, but you never 329 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: take it home. And when you're done with it, you 330 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: throw it in a burn bag. And every law clerk 331 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: has a burnbag, typically under your desk. And the burn 332 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: bag is about this tall, and it's a kind of 333 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: brown and red striped bag. And that bag is sealed 334 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: and then it is shredded twice horizontally and vertically, and 335 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: then it is burned and it is rendered completely unreadable 336 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: before it leaves the building. And that is that's the 337 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: level of security they take in that building. One question 338 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: we don't know was this individual how smart a crook 339 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: were they? We know the reporters who publish the story. 340 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: One of the natural inquiries is going to be, particularly 341 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: of the twelve likely suspects, what contexts did they have 342 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: with those reporters? Did they know the reporters Did they 343 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: go to school with the reporters? Do they have emails 344 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: with the reporters? Do they have phone calls with the reporters? 345 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: Do they have text with the reporters. I don't know 346 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: the answer to any of that. I don't know whether 347 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: these are master criminals or not. But it strikes me 348 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: that it is very possible there is an electronic trail 349 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: or a personal trail. Now, in terms of the consequences, 350 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: if they identify the perpetrator, I am confident the perpetrator 351 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: would be fired on the spot, but instantaneously you would 352 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: lose your job. I am also confident that the perpetrator 353 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: would be disbarred. That assuming the perpetrator was already a 354 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: member of the bar. Sometimes clerks and members of the 355 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: bar sometimes they're not yet. Like I was not yet 356 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: a member of the bar when I was a clerk 357 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: because I didn't I had not yet had time to 358 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: take the bar exam. I took the bar exam right 359 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: when I finished my clerkship. If this clerk, you know, 360 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: presumed clerk, were not yet admitted to the bar, could 361 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: they be preemptively held from from ever entering the bar. 362 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: I don't think any bar would admit this person, I 363 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: think this person's legal career is over if they If 364 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: they are okay, and and by the way, that's a 365 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: big deal. To be a Supreme Court clerk is the 366 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: pinnacle of legal achievement for a student coming out of 367 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: law school. They're only thirty six in the entire country. 368 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: You get a signing bonus at a law firm as 369 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: a Supreme court clerk. I think the current bonus is 370 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The day you walk 371 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: into the door at the law firm one I was clerking, 372 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: it was fifty grand, so so you can see inflation. 373 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: It makes a big difference. But at a minimum, the 374 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: perpetrator would be fired and would never practice law. But 375 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: there's a very real possibility. So in the course of 376 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: the investigation, the investigators will question the clerks if they 377 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: lie to the federal officers. Section one thousand and one 378 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: or the Federal Criminal Code makes it a felony to 379 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: lie to a federal officer that carries prison time. And 380 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: so if they lie in the course of the investigation, 381 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: I think they should be prosecuted and they should serve 382 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: the maximum prison time possible. If they don't lie. It's 383 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: a little more complicated whether they've in fact violated a 384 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: criminal prohibition or not. I've actually asked my team to 385 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: try to do some deep dive research on that. But 386 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: I think regardless, the penalty should be as significant as 387 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: possible because the damage to the court will be far lasting. 388 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: It is going to make it incredibly difficult for the 389 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: justices to trust the process of deciding cases in a 390 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: collaborative matter, sharing drafts, going back and forth. If people 391 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: treat it as just another political process, that does massive 392 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: damage to the court's ability to do its job. So 393 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: putting this criminal aside, you know, hopefully we can deal 394 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: with this person. They're disbarred, they get thrown in jail 395 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: and alcatraz, and they throw away the key. I almost 396 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: don't even care about that person in spite of the 397 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: attacks on the court and the institutional integrity, because I 398 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: care so much about the case. So I don't want 399 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: them to take away the joy that pro lifers should 400 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: feel here in that it looks right now like the 401 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: Court is going to overrule Row and Casey. This is 402 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: something we've been waiting for for half a century. Sixty 403 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: two million babies have been killed throughout since the Revuewaghe decision. 404 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: So this is huge news unless it isn't. This was 405 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: just a draft from February. So where does the case stand. Well, 406 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And that is the single most dangerous 407 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: thing about this league. The reason in all likelihood that 408 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: this league happened is a left wing law Clark was 409 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: trying to direct political pressure to the five justices to 410 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: cause them to switch their vote. And justices switch their 411 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: votes all the time. It's not a majority opinion, it's 412 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: not a holding of the court until the opinion issues. 413 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: At this point, it's just a draft. And this one 414 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: of the things understand about this league. This is the 415 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: most egregious manifestation of a multi year campaign by Democrats 416 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: to politicize the Court and to pressure it. And you know, look, 417 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: I'll give you some example. So Senator Schumer stood on 418 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: the steps of the Court a couple of years ago, 419 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: held a press conference and here's what he said. He said, quote, 420 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: I want to tell you Gorsuch. I want to tell 421 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: you Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind and you will 422 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: pay the price. You won't know what hit you if 423 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: you go forward with these awful decisions. So you had 424 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: then the Senate Minority leader, now the Senate majority leader, 425 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: directly threatening justices if they didn't vote the way he wanted. 426 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: Sheldon Whitehouse is a senior Democrat in the Judiciary Committee. 427 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: He filed an amicus brief in the court stated quote, 428 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: perhaps the Court can heal itself before the public demands 429 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: it be restructured in order to reduce the influence of politics, 430 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: particularly on the urgent issue of gun control. A nation 431 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: desperately needs it to heal. These are partisan democrats threatening 432 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: and trying to intimidate the court to decide cases the 433 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: way they want. That manifested even further in the campaign 434 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: to pack the court to add four new left wing 435 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: justices and grow it to thirteen. And by the way, 436 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: not just that. So there's a whole dark money network, 437 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: what's called the Arabella network of wealthy leftist who played 438 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: wage dark money campaigns on judicial confirmations. They went to 439 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: Brett Kavanaugh's house trying to intimidate him personally and threaten 440 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: his family with Justice Brier, the reliably liberal democrat Justice 441 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: Brier Demand Justice, which is which is the kind of 442 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: main front group for the leftist launched a campaign to 443 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: force justice Brior to retire, including creating a mobile billboard 444 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: truck to pressure Justice Brier. These are partisan Democrats and 445 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: so after this league happened, let me tell you what 446 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: some of these leftist activists have said. Guy named Brian Fallon, 447 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: who is the executive director of Demand Justice, used to 448 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: work for Chuck Schumer. He tweeted out, quote, Scotus leaks 449 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: are good elite lawyers on both the left and right, 450 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: treating the court as precious. All these years have been 451 00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: given cover to an institution that is wholly unaccountable. The 452 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: veil off. There's another guy, another leftist guy named Ian Millheiser, 453 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: who tweeted the following serious seriously shout out to whoever 454 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: the hero was within the Supreme Court who said ef it, 455 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: although he didn't abbreviate f ef it. Let's burn this 456 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: place down. That is what the left is doing with 457 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: ending the filibuster, with trying to take over federal elections. 458 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: They're trying to burn the Senate down. They're trying to 459 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: destroy our institutions, and this league reflects the manifestation of 460 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: that multi year campaign to burn the court down. And 461 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: their activists are cheering this. So will it work? Senator. 462 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: Will this pressure campaign and the league and the whole 463 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: operation here, will it work to pressure one of the 464 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: five justices to flip the vote? Are we going to 465 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: see the ruling anytime soon? Are they going to wait 466 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: for a month or two, or are we going to 467 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: get it? We've already seen a draft from February. What 468 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: is the status of the case right now? So I 469 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: don't think it will work. The Chief Justice today put 470 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: out a statement saying that it will not work, that 471 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: it will not intimidate the court. This is an obvious 472 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: attempt to pressure the justices to change their votes, and 473 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: I think it is likely to backfire, that it's likely 474 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: to cause them to dig in even more. Because for 475 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: any justice at this point, when it's publicly known that 476 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: you were voting one way, for you to give into 477 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: the political pressure and flip would do possibly permanent damage 478 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: to the credibility of the court. It would be to 479 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: transform the court into a nakedly political body. Interestingly enough, 480 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: I think nobody is more dismayed about this than John Roberts. 481 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: Even though according to the Politico report, he doesn't agree 482 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: with overturning versus Wade, he cares deeply about the institutional 483 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: credibility of the Court. As you know, I know John 484 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: Roberts very very well. I am certain he is horrified, 485 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: and in fact, I think I have no doubt all 486 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: nine Justices are horrified. I mean to give you a 487 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: sense of the character of the place. I clerked for 488 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: Chief Justice Rehnquist nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety seven. 489 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: At the time there was a tradition where the law 490 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: clerks for each justice would go and have lunch with 491 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: each of the other justices. It's very cool tradition. So 492 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: you got to go have lunch with each of the 493 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: other eight. At the time, I clerked Byron White, who 494 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: was a retired justice, but he still went into work, 495 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: and we very much wanted to have lunch with Byron White. 496 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: He refused to have lunch. And the reason he wouldn't 497 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: have lunch is because of the Brethren. So Bob Woodward, 498 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: the reporter of Woodward and Bernstein, wrote the book The Brethren. 499 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: It came out in the seventies and it's like this 500 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: tell all from within the Supreme Court, with lots of 501 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: gossip and lots of internal information about the deliberations of 502 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: the court. A number of law clerks after the fact 503 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: talked with Woodward. There's there's speculation at least one justice, 504 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: likely Potter Stewart, talked with Woodward, and it was a 505 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: scandal at the Court of Massive Proportions. So I read 506 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: The Brethren when I was in high school. I think 507 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: I was fifteen when I read it, and I thought, Okay, 508 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: this like being a Supreme Court law clerks, sounds like 509 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: the most amazing job on the face of the planet. 510 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: I want to do this more than anything else. And 511 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: it worked out that I got to. But ever since 512 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: the Brethren, Byron White said I won't sit down and 513 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: talk to other law clerks. I'll talk to my own clerk, 514 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: but I won't talk to other law clerks because of 515 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: the Brethren. That's and by the way, this was decades 516 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: later that White still would not have lunch with clerks 517 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: from other chambers. I think the repercussions of this will 518 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: also be decades long. But I also think it is 519 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: likely to harden the five justices in the majority of fact. 520 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: I don't think it's impossible Roberts joins them because of 521 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: this league. I doubt it, but the chances aren't zero 522 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: that Roberts writes something that said, this league is unprecedented, 523 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: wholly unjustified, an assault on the integrity of the court. 524 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: You know, the closest analogy is the Obamacare case that 525 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: upheld Obamacare, and in that case, after the decision came down, 526 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: there was widespread leaking that Roberts had initially voted to 527 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: strike down Obamacare and then had switched his vote to 528 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: a hold it. And I have no reason to doubt 529 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: that reporting. Now that was prior to this, the greatest 530 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: breach that had ever happened. It was really dismaying to 531 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: see the clerks leaking like this, But that was a 532 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: qualitatively different situation because those leaks all came after the fact, 533 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: after the opinion was down, just providing some explanation and context. 534 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: In this instance, the league happened before the opinion was issued, 535 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: and it's an effort to intimidate the justices into changing 536 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: their votes. It's why it's a threat on the independence 537 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: of the judiciary, because it's designed to try to move 538 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: their votes. I think the effect will be the opposite, 539 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: and that it will harden them because no justice wants 540 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: to show that they're so unprincipled they can be moved 541 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: by this. Right now, before I let you go, Senator. 542 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: I know it's been a very long day and there's 543 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: still much more to do, but I've got to turn 544 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: to your particular branch of government now because one of 545 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: the consequences of this league is you've got all of 546 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: the elected Democrats up to and including Joe Biden saying 547 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: that we need to codify Roe versus Weight into law. 548 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: If the Court is going to behave in this irresponsible 549 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: manner and strike down row View Wade, then we need 550 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: a national pro abortion law. Can Joe Biden get that done? 551 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: I do not believe so. I think he can pass 552 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: it through the House. They've got a majority in the House, 553 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: and I think the Democrats will stick together, and you 554 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: may have a couple of Republicans in the House. I 555 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: don't I haven't followed the kind of abortion lines in 556 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: the House, but there may well be some pro choice 557 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: Republicans in the House. In the Senate, he will not 558 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: get it done because to get it done will require 559 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: sixty votes because of the filibuster he would get. He'll 560 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: get all fifty Democrats and I'm sure we'll vote on it. 561 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: He will get Susan Collins, and I think he will 562 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: likely get Lisa Murkowski, you get to fifty two, I 563 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: don't know that you get any higher. The other forty 564 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 1: eight are on record that Row is wrong in this case. 565 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: I filed an amicus brief with the court along with 566 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: Mike Lee and Josh Holley, arguing to the court specifically 567 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: that it should overturn Roe versus Wade. I don't think 568 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 1: there's any universe in which we get to sixty votes. 569 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: So I assume the Democrats will try to force a 570 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: vote on it, and they'll lose the vote. Now, there 571 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: is some danger that Schumer. In fact, I think it 572 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: is certain that Schumer will use this to try to 573 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: end the filibuster. Right, there's some danger he succeeds, and 574 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: if this becomes the issue they blow up the filibuster on, 575 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: they will have succeeded in in permanently damaging two branches 576 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: of government instead of just one. So you think there 577 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: is a chance that, as they've already said explicitly, I 578 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: think that not only will they try to get rid 579 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 1: of the filibuster on this issue, but they would actually 580 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: succeed in doing so. They could get a maybe a 581 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin or a Kurston cinema or who knows. I 582 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: think it is possible. I don't know that it would happen, 583 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: but I think their plan is to try one fast point. 584 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: I don't believe any Democrats senator has condemned the League today. 585 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: If they have, I haven't seen it and I was 586 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: watching for it. It is ominous that the Democrats are 587 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: not even willing to condemn the League, and it everyone 588 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: should condemn. The League is as grossly a gross violation 589 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: of trust. And it's ominous that if Democrat senators did so, 590 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: I didn't see it. Wow, that is spooky and does 591 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: maybe tell you something about how they're thinking about a 592 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: national abortion law or ending the filibuster. On that scary note, 593 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: we must leave you. We will see you on Apple podcast, YouTube, Spotify, 594 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: everywhere you get your podcasts. Make sure you subscribe to Verdict. 595 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: Leave a five star review if you don't mind. In 596 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: the meantime, I'm Michael Knowles. This is Verdict with Ted Cruz. 597 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought 598 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, a political 599 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, and candidates 600 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: across the country. In twenty twenty two, Jobs Freedom and 601 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: Security Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates running for 602 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 1: Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.