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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. On

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Speaker 1: this episode, I'm going to go over a quick recap

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Speaker 1: of my recent Western Washington Roosevelt muzzle atter hunt, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk a little bit about hook rot and

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Speaker 1: just a general decline we're seeing in this area in

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Speaker 1: our el chords, what we think the cause may be,

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Speaker 1: and then what we can do moving forward.

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Speaker 2: But first, like.

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Speaker 1: All Cutting the Distance episodes, we're gonna take a few

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Speaker 1: listener questions. If you have any questions for me or

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Speaker 1: my guests, feel free to email them to us at

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Speaker 1: CTD at Phelps game Calls dot com, send us a

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Speaker 1: social message, and we'll do our best to get them

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Speaker 1: on here. So our first question comes from Austin Smith.

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Speaker 1: He wants to know what a strategy for late November

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Speaker 1: archery bowl hunt would be. The elk are going to

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Speaker 1: be quiet, the landscape severely limits glassing, it's snowing.

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Speaker 2: Water is readily available.

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Speaker 1: He thanks for input, he says, So, Austin, if I

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Speaker 1: was you know, I was back when my early start

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Speaker 1: to archery hunting. We had a late November early December

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Speaker 1: archery hunt here and it was a lot different than

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Speaker 1: the early season where I relied heavily on bugling, relied

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Speaker 1: heavily on calling. I always tell people I still get

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Speaker 1: this question a lot, even in my backyard, what calls

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Speaker 1: should I use in November? And I tell everybody you

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Speaker 1: should always have an external call, a cow call around,

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Speaker 1: or a diaphragm around. But I typically will only use

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Speaker 1: it if I need to stop them for a shot,

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Speaker 1: or if I need to call to settle them down.

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Speaker 1: So as far as calling goes, in my opinion, it

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Speaker 1: can actually hurt your chance of success by putting them

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Speaker 1: on alert looking in your direction. So once again, if

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Speaker 1: I need to stop them for a shot, or if

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Speaker 1: I need to calm or herd down, that maybe a

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Speaker 1: ridge over or in the area, you can use it. Now,

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Speaker 1: with that said, we have successfully called elk in during

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Speaker 1: that late season, using some calf calls, cal call communication

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Speaker 1: and whatnot, even some lost cow calls. But in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: in those instances where it worked, I feel like the

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Speaker 1: odds were still kind of stacked against us. So as

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Speaker 1: far as a strategy on just you know how, I

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Speaker 1: would hunt an area that one you can't see very

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Speaker 1: good due to the landscape, so it's either flat or

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Speaker 1: it's timbered. You know, vegetation's not helping you. I like

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Speaker 1: to cover a lot of ground, but I like to

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Speaker 1: be strategic on how I'm gonna cover that ground. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna cover ridgetops if they're in the area, which I

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Speaker 1: don't want to make the assumption this is flat. But

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Speaker 1: if ridges are there, or passes or areas that you

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Speaker 1: know elk are using, definitely go check those out. You're

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Speaker 1: looking for sign, you know, and it's different sign than

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Speaker 1: the rest. So we're no longer looking for rubs. We

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Speaker 1: don't care where those were at two or three months ago.

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Speaker 1: We don't necessarily care where you know, where they run

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Speaker 1: it at. It's where they at now. So by this

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Speaker 1: time November, a lot of your bigger bowls have broken

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Speaker 1: off from the herd. They're still typically solo. So if

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Speaker 1: you're in an area, you know a lot of November

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Speaker 1: hunts allow you know, cows to be to be harvested

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Speaker 1: or killed. It depends on what you're after. If you're

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Speaker 1: in a bowl area only, I would much rather follow

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Speaker 1: a solo track, you know, obviously if you can tell

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Speaker 1: that it's a bowl. But those solo tracks are typically

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Speaker 1: going to be your bull tracks, your herds are still

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Speaker 1: going to be running together at that time. You know,

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Speaker 1: scouting is going to pay off, you know, leading up

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Speaker 1: to this November hunt. If you can put in time,

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Speaker 1: you know, where they're at in early November, middle of November,

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Speaker 1: they're probably still typically going to be there in late November,

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Speaker 1: unless you're in a major migration, uh, you know type unit.

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Speaker 1: And if that's the case, then you're gonna find where

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Speaker 1: those elka at and you're going to probably move down

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Speaker 1: in elevation and in those same drainages, in those same

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Speaker 1: ridge lines, those same areas.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you're just gonna have to follow basically tracks

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Speaker 1: on the ground, you know, scat where it's on the ground,

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Speaker 1: and uh use that to your advantage, covering lots of ground,

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Speaker 1: being very strategic as well as being strategic about where

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Speaker 1: your wind's gonna end up. You don't necessarily want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, just you know, uh, just run across the

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Speaker 1: landscape and cover as much ground. You're trying to think

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Speaker 1: if I go here, you know, can the are the

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Speaker 1: oak gonna win me?

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Speaker 2: Here?

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Speaker 1: Is it safer to go in the crick bottoms to

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Speaker 1: try to pick up sign if you're on the ridgetops

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Speaker 1: you should do it in the middle of the day,

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Speaker 1: so maybe the thermals are pushing with you. You know,

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Speaker 1: you'd be as smart, you know, hunter as you move through.

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Speaker 1: But that's really it's a lot tough for Austin in

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Speaker 1: my opinion. You know, it goes back to to your

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Speaker 1: a lot of your rifle strategies where we're doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of spot and stock, we're doing some ambushing, and

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Speaker 1: we're doing some patterning with calling taking off the table.

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Speaker 1: For me, it resorts back to to those typical, you know,

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Speaker 1: methods of hunting. And you know, another great way is

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Speaker 1: if you know they're frequenting an area, if you're a

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Speaker 1: tree stand guy or a ground blind guy, if you're

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Speaker 1: confident enough that their pattern is routine, it's very routine

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Speaker 1: and it's predictable enough, you can definitely try to utilize

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Speaker 1: some of those other methods. You know, is to hunt

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Speaker 1: and be successful. So that's my best advice I've got

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Speaker 1: for you there, Austin. Our next question comes from Zach McQuillan.

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Speaker 1: A few years back, we had some conversations about hunting

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt Elk, and he wanted to reach back out to

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Speaker 1: me and ask a few questions so this year they

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Speaker 1: decided to move from I'm not going to mention units

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Speaker 1: from one unit to another unit, and they got to

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Speaker 1: permit through a timber company, which is very typical around

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Speaker 1: here in western Washington. Now we'll get into that in

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Speaker 1: a little bit as I do a recap on my hunt.

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Speaker 1: So you get to permit to access and beyond on

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Speaker 1: these timber companies properties. So he was saying that they

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Speaker 1: scouted pretty much the entire area and realize that ninety

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Speaker 1: five percent of it is thin and re brought. And

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Speaker 1: so for those of you that don't know what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, is on industrial tree farms. Typically they go

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Speaker 1: in and plant the trees at a very close proximity,

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Speaker 1: and it's almost the survival of the toughest. Whichever trees

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Speaker 1: kind of take off the faster. They go in there

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Speaker 1: and do conifer releases, or they will thin or commercially

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Speaker 1: thin these these timber patches, and it happens at all

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Speaker 1: different ages. You can do it when the trees are

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to get my dates wrong. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a forester by any means, but you can do it,

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Speaker 1: let's say fifteen years and a lot of times that

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Speaker 1: timber has no value. They will slash it and then

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Speaker 1: leave it on the ground, which basically you leave your

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Speaker 1: coniferous trees to come up, and then you've cut out

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Speaker 1: you know, thirty to forty percent or whatever that appropriate

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Speaker 1: number is to give those trees that are still standing

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Speaker 1: the best chance to grow, grow faster and be ready

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Speaker 1: for harvest. And so what he's saying is, when it's

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Speaker 1: ninety five percent thin and it's reprod it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of that slash pile. So you basically cut out every

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Speaker 1: other tree. But then by doing that you've left basically

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Speaker 1: just a jackstrawed mess of crunchy sticks timber, small timber.

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Speaker 2: On the ground.

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Speaker 1: And so his question for us is how would you

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Speaker 1: tactically hunt this type of train for what he calls

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Speaker 1: the elusive Roosevelt elk? And I would agree with him.

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Speaker 1: More time that goes on, the more elusive these Roosevelt

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Speaker 1: elk are becoming, how would you hunt that? The one

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Speaker 1: disadvantage we have is, for some reason, elk seem to

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Speaker 1: like that ground just as much as anywhere else. At

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Speaker 1: times they will go in there, they will live in there,

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Speaker 1: they will feed in there. They don't get presented with

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Speaker 1: as many problems as humans do being in there. You know,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to go in there making a ton

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Speaker 1: of noise. We'll never sneak up or get close to anything.

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Speaker 1: It's just a lot of work to climb and crawl

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Speaker 1: our way through that stuff. But elk seem to have

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Speaker 1: no problem. You know, some of that those jack furs

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Speaker 1: and reprod they still have some brush established, and you

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Speaker 1: open that up to a little bit of light. There's

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Speaker 1: good feet in there. It's tough. I would say, during

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Speaker 1: the rut, you can make it work. You make that

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Speaker 1: elk working there, even though you're gonna have to do

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Speaker 1: some movement. The nice thing about archery elk is elk

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Speaker 1: expect you to make noise, so you can get away

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Speaker 1: with a little bit more noise than they can. And

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to locate them in the middle of that,

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Speaker 1: because in my opinion, you're not necessarily gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to sneak in on them unless they think in elk's

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Speaker 1: coming at them. The other thing is if you're ninety

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Speaker 1: five percent thin, which seems to be a pretty high number,

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Speaker 1: but you know, if it is truly that high, I

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Speaker 1: would go look at where are there elk in that

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Speaker 1: other five percent? Are there roads through this system? A

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Speaker 1: lot of times they won't thin and cut across the roads.

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Speaker 1: Can I use these roads in Roosevelt Country to use

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Speaker 1: my setups and and you know, use that as my

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Speaker 1: shooting lane to get close a lot of times? You

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Speaker 1: know in this western Washington Western Oregon industrial timberlands, there

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Speaker 1: are roads cut everywhere because these timber companies want to

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Speaker 1: log it is efficiently and quickly and cheap as possible

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Speaker 1: in order to to maximize their profits. So can you

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Speaker 1: use these road systems to get in close? You know

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Speaker 1: we do this still on reprad or jackferds that that

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Speaker 1: aren't slashed to get close. You know that a lot

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Speaker 1: of time that is our approach is using an old

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Speaker 1: road bed, an old cat road, and old skid a road,

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Speaker 1: whatever it may be, to get close. So use those

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Speaker 1: to your advantage. But you know, if you're not in

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Speaker 1: the rut and able to call those bulls through that

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Speaker 1: a little bit, it's going to be real tough. I

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Speaker 1: tend to stay out of those things because it's difficult

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Speaker 1: to sneak in and it's still sometimes difficult to get

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Speaker 1: a shot because those trees are you know, only fifteen

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Speaker 1: years old, they've got a lot of brush. The ones

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Speaker 1: that are standing have a lot of low lying, you know, limbs,

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Speaker 1: and so I typically stay away from that. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that was a great answer, Zach, but

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Speaker 1: that's kind of my best advice is can you hunt

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Speaker 1: around it?

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Speaker 2: Can you hunt the roads through it?

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Speaker 1: And worst case scenario, if you've got to go into it,

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Speaker 1: by all means you can make it work. But it

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Speaker 1: definitely helps when they're ready and you can call in

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Speaker 1: the call back. Our third question today comes from Ryan

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Speaker 1: Jeffries his questions on the smell of elk. Anybody that's

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Speaker 1: been out there, you know what the smell elk is.

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Speaker 1: You know a lot of times when they're rutting it,

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Speaker 1: it's very pungent and a very strong odor. But they

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Speaker 1: typically will always smell like a barnyard is the best

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Speaker 1: way I can describe it. You know, you kind of

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Speaker 1: get that, you know, cattle mixed with horrorse kind of

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Speaker 1: mixed with just that barnyard stench. And so his question is,

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Speaker 1: if you can smell them, how fresh is that odor?

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Speaker 1: He's walked into areas with fresh signed many times and

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Speaker 1: experienced a strong elk odor associated with these spots, especially

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Speaker 1: where beds are found. I also routinely catch a whiff

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Speaker 1: of elk odor carried by the wind when scouting or hunting.

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Speaker 1: Just curious how fresh the smell may be or how

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Speaker 1: long that odor can linger in the area. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm not a scientist. I don't know a lot

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Speaker 1: about that, you know, the scent or whatnot. But I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you what my experience is from just hunting and

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Speaker 1: the amount of times I've ran into that smell or

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Speaker 1: smell them and then ultimately ran, you know, either into

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Speaker 1: the elk or you know, found them very close by.

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Speaker 1: And it depends on the weather. If it has rained

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Speaker 1: a lot and you can still smell them, I would

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Speaker 1: say that's a hotter sign. That means those elk have

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Speaker 1: been there more recently. When when it's hot and dry out.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times, it seems like that urine or

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Speaker 1: whatever you know, is making that scent. A lot of

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Speaker 1: times it seems to be the urine that is in

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Speaker 1: their beds. You know, whether it's a cow or a

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Speaker 1: ble that can last for two, three, four days. You know,

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Speaker 1: we we've did a lot of testing, whether you know,

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Speaker 1: we've snuck up or been right behind elk. They've urinated

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Speaker 1: in their bed. They've got urine in there. It's a

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Speaker 1: very very strong, it's more pungent. But you can go

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Speaker 1: buy a bed three, four, five, six, seven days later

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Speaker 1: if it's continued to be warm and there's no longer

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Speaker 1: signs of wet urine in the bed, and you can

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Speaker 1: kick the dust, you can smell it. You can and

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Speaker 1: you can still smell elk, and you will get whips

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Speaker 1: of that as you go through these areas. So I

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Speaker 1: would say weather plays a big, big factor. But a

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Speaker 1: lot of times I always assume, and you have to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit you know, smart about it. But

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Speaker 1: if I smell elk right where I'm at on this

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Speaker 1: last time muzzle or hunting, we smelled elk a few times,

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Speaker 1: I instantly what is the wind doing right now? Is

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Speaker 1: because typically you need to go into that wind direction

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Speaker 1: a little bit to either one figure out where the

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Speaker 1: elk signs coming from, whether it's coming off of you know, beds,

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Speaker 1: or if it's coming off the real elk. And it's

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Speaker 1: a safe play, right if you smell elk or signs

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Speaker 1: of elk, you put your nose to the wind, and

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Speaker 1: go that direction because that's where the scent is coming from. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Of a of a.

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Speaker 1: Of a skill, an experience that comes in some of us.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I do it right all the time,

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Speaker 1: but some people that have been out there a whole

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Speaker 1: lot can start to smell the difference between live elk,

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Speaker 1: like an elk, an actual elk. The live elk, the

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Speaker 1: smell that comes off of them is sometimes different than

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Speaker 1: the urine and stuff that comes out of their bed.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't always match up. And so one thing you

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Speaker 1: need to try to figure out is do you have

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Speaker 1: live elk? If possible? If not, you're you're approaching beds

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Speaker 1: or bedding areas or areas where they may have just

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Speaker 1: fed through. That's the other thing I'd like to talk

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Speaker 1: about when when smelling the elk, they is it are

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Speaker 1: they there?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: Did they travel through there? That they lay there? Is

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Speaker 1: the wind carrying where they're at?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: And and you know, or did they cross through here?

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Speaker 1: So there's there's all of this stuff, and now we're

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Speaker 1: trying to look for tracks, like there's a track, you know,

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Speaker 1: are the tracks letting me know are those elk there?

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Speaker 1: Did they travel through here where they at, and so

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Speaker 1: you just you just want to become a more educated

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Speaker 1: elk hunter. When you start to smell elk, we always

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Speaker 1: slow down. We always assume, you know, elk are going

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Speaker 1: to be around the next corner. We're we're trying to

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Speaker 1: you know, we're always playing the wind, but now we're

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Speaker 1: playing the wind a little bit different. Do we want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, walk into the scent? Do we want to

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Speaker 1: circle the scent? Another thing we will do at times

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Speaker 1: if we're not really familiar with the area, we'll pull out,

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Speaker 1: you know, on X and try to decide if those

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Speaker 1: elk if that sense coming from this way, if we

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Speaker 1: think they're that way, we make an educated guest and

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Speaker 1: we try to play an area that's on the map.

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Speaker 1: You know, are they betted in this flat just over

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Speaker 1: the ridge?

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Speaker 2: They did? They feed through here.

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Speaker 1: In the morning, and they may be over there. We're

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Speaker 1: trying to just be educated hunters so that we don't

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Speaker 1: screw up. I take every one of these opportunities as is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the last hunt of the year or the

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Speaker 1: hunt where we're going to be successful. So I'm probably

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Speaker 1: overly cautious at times, but we're playing that scent or

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Speaker 1: us picking up that scent is the hottest information we've got.

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Speaker 1: It's a hot sign. It's a hot and we go

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 2: Now. As far as like.

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Speaker 1: Answering your exact question on how fresh it is or

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Speaker 1: how they've been there, it just depends. And like I say,

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Speaker 1: I always end up kind of defaulting to if I

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Speaker 1: can smell elk, they've been there very recently, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially if I'm not digging in beds, I'm just walking

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Speaker 1: along the trail and maybe we've seen a little bit

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Speaker 1: of fresh sign. As we've got in the timber, we're

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Speaker 1: on high alert and we're playing that like an elk.

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Speaker 1: And that's the other thing like you're using. From the

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Speaker 1: time I get out of the truck and my feet

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Speaker 1: are on the ground, I'm picking apart every bit of sign.

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Speaker 1: You know, is there any elk sign in here? Was

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Speaker 1: there elk sign from two weeks ago? Has there ever

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Speaker 1: been an elk in this piece of timber in my life?

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Speaker 2: You know, you're you're.

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Speaker 1: Trying to look at all of that, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of all adds into what you think is going on

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Speaker 1: as you hunt through timber. You know, the best if

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Speaker 1: you're on somewhat fresh tracks. You know, a day or

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Speaker 1: two or it's rained and tracks are washed out, but

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Speaker 1: you're back on fresh tracks and you smell elk, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's got a very high probability of there being elk,

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Speaker 1: you know somewhere around me, versus there's really no good

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Speaker 1: good sign. But maybe you're in a patch of timber

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Speaker 1: that leads between a great bedding area and a great

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Speaker 1: feed area. You're like, well, they might just be going

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Speaker 1: through here. You're putting all that together. So I don't

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Speaker 1: have a great answer for either, Ryan, but I just

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Speaker 1: play any scent or odor from elk is being extremely

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Speaker 1: fresh and going with that. So we appreciate those questions

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Speaker 1: from you guys. Once again, you have any questions for

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Speaker 1: me or my guests, feel free to email them to

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Speaker 1: us at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com and we'll

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Speaker 1: do our best to get those on the podcast here.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm gonna do a little recap. We've tried

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Speaker 1: to do these recaps on all of our hunts and

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Speaker 1: a lot of times.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm not a.

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Speaker 1: Great storyteller, but I feel like a lot of information

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Speaker 1: can be learned and gained, and I always like to

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Speaker 1: take just as much. I like to learn just as

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Speaker 1: much from my failures as well, and so if I

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Speaker 1: can pass some of those on to you, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to do that.

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Speaker 2: And we'll get into.

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Speaker 1: One here on the on the third morning of our

353
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Speaker 1: hunt that you know, my setup wasn't great and I

354
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Speaker 1: went in there a little bit, you know, over over

355
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Speaker 1: confident that I had a muzzloader in my hand and

356
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Speaker 1: no longer had my bow, and it came back to

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Speaker 1: bite me. But we'll get into that at all, get

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Speaker 1: into it here in a little bit after we go

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Speaker 1: through the first part. So for those of you that

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Speaker 1: don't know I used to hunt, I grew up hunting

361
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Speaker 1: Western Washington in my backyard. I grew up in what

362
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Speaker 1: I would consider maybe the best elki hunting anywhere in

363
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Speaker 1: the world. Now, with that said, I'm basing that on

364
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Speaker 1: quantity we had. We had a crazy density of elk,

365
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Speaker 1: especially after they made it three pointed better in this area.

366
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Speaker 1: It just seems like we had never ending elk to hunt.

367
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Speaker 1: I can remember growing up. I would I would ride

368
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Speaker 1: by legal bull after legal bul trying to get to

369
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Speaker 1: better bulls that I had scouted and whatnot. So I

370
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Speaker 1: came from an area where it was. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say it was easy, but elk were plentiful. I

372
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Speaker 1: haven't been back here since two thousand and thirteen, was

373
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Speaker 1: the last time I had a tag in Western Washington,

374
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Speaker 1: I think, or at least that I hunted in Western Washington.

375
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Speaker 1: I came back in twenty fifteen and twenty eighteen and

376
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Speaker 1: helped some buddies on some muzzleoer hunts, and then I've

377
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 1: did some special hunts on the East Side. But aside

378
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Speaker 1: from that, like hunting around home, I haven't haven't jumped

379
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Speaker 1: in the woods with with a tag in my hand.

380
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Speaker 1: And I had started to hear reports. You know, there's

381
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Speaker 1: there been a lot of you know, there ain't any

382
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,119
Speaker 1: there aren't any elk left.

383
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Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on.

384
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Speaker 1: It seemed like we had bounced back from hoof rot,

385
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Speaker 1: but things are way worse, Like people aren't even buying

386
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Speaker 1: tags around here because you know, there aren't any elk left.

387
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Speaker 1: And so for me that was a bummer, you know,

388
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Speaker 1: And then there's a little bit of overconfidence that like, oh,

389
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Speaker 1: you guys don't know what you're doing, Like I can

390
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,360
Speaker 1: scout better than you, I can hunt harder than you.

391
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Speaker 2: I can.

392
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Speaker 1: I can hunt better than you know, whatever it may be.

393
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Speaker 2: I think there was a little.

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Speaker 1: Bit of a I didn't believe them because when we

395
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 1: left it was so good. But with that said, I decided,

396
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 1: rather than hunt locally to my house, I was going

397
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: to go back out to the east end of the county.

398
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Speaker 1: My county that I live in is very, very diverse.

399
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Speaker 1: The west side industrial timberlands. The east side butts up

400
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 1: against the Cascades, and so I love hunting in the mountains.

401
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 1: I don't like some of this lowland industrial timberland stuff

402
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 1: where it's very very.

403
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 2: Competitive.

404
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 1: As far as the hunting, I like the mountains where

405
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 1: it's like I can let my legs get me away

406
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 1: from people, I can get higher, I can get up earlier,

407
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,640
Speaker 1: I can hunt it right, and typically it's me versus

408
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 1: the elk instead of me versus you know, hunter ABC

409
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 1: and the elk. So we went out there, but one

410
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: thing I was very surprised. The last time I was

411
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,720
Speaker 1: up there, we had killed a bowl off of a road.

412
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 1: It's nobody hardly ever goes out this road. It's it's overlooked.

413
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: Everybody hunts around it. But this road on this mountain

414
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 1: is pretty dang good. And last time we were there

415
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 1: we killed a great six by seven Roosevelt, you know,

416
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,480
Speaker 1: right out of the road, and there's always been signed there.

417
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 1: We hike up there about five miles. First off, I

418
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 1: want to a reminder to people that these road systems

419
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,639
Speaker 1: can change a whole lot in eight to ten years.

420
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Speaker 1: It was ten times more difficult because all the brush

421
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Speaker 1: had grown up. We were basically dodging and weaving and

422
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 1: ducking brush for an entire five miles. But we walked

423
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Speaker 1: all the way out this road, bugled a few times

424
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: the night before just to try to locate, and nothing.

425
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Speaker 1: So it was a defeating walk back. That was kind

426
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Speaker 1: of our plan A to get away from people. So

427
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Speaker 1: Plan B was to go back into the same area

428
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: where I had killed my big bowl in twenty twelve,

429
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: hoping that the elk that used to be around there

430
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 1: were still there. One of the reasons we didn't go

431
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 1: there first is it seemed like shortly after I had

432
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Speaker 1: killed that bowl and muzzloader seasons were opened up to

433
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,359
Speaker 1: all units, the area kind of got overran with camps

434
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,919
Speaker 1: and hunters and it just wasn't the quality hunt I

435
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: was looking for. We went up there nobody around at all.

436
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: So we left early that morning, just throughout our sleeping

437
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 1: bags on the ground, jumped up in the morning, loaded

438
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: everything up, and then we were on the trail going in.

439
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 1: There wasn't a lot of sign though down low we

440
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: would typically get into elk sign and so I was

441
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: going in with the headlamps.

442
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 2: Right.

443
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: Man, there's not a lot of sign, but thankfully about

444
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: a mile and a half in we were able to

445
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 1: cut some tracks. Was moving through there and started to

446
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: pick up scent, just like we were talking about earlier,

447
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 1: and it looked like the tracks were very fresh picking

448
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: up scent, so were I was just talking to Tyler,

449
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: who's one of our employees and was kind of filming

450
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: this hunt for me. I was just getting ready. I

451
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: had turned around to tell him, like, stand in my

452
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: hip pocket. I think, you know, it could happen anywhere

453
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 1: in here. And as I was talking to him, he

454
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: was looking over my shoulder the direction we were going,

455
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 1: and he spotted a cow feeding up into the open.

456
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: We were up there about two miles or so and

457
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: range it and she's about one hundred and forty, which

458
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: for me was very confident. And so we're watching cow

459
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: after cow and I think there's one calf in the

460
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: group of nine cows, and then finally the bold bugles

461
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: behind them and follows them up. I always talk about

462
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: my mistakes, and typically I should be smarter than this,

463
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: and I don't know why I wasn't. I rest on

464
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: my pack one hundred and he ends up stopping at

465
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 1: about one hundred and fifty six yards a shot. I'm

466
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: very comfortable with with my muzzle order, and my brain

467
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: has a little malfunction. We talk about this a lot

468
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: archery hunting, like I shoot my bowl a lot more

469
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: than I shoot my gun, and it becomes instinct. But

470
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: on muzzleloader, I don't know why. And I still can't

471
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: explain my peep site, my bead, everything went down to

472
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: sit right on the heart of the bowl, a third,

473
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 1: you know, a third up its body.

474
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: As I squeezed the trigger.

475
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: Well my gun, I didn't side it in high at

476
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: one hundred so that we would be on. I sided

477
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: on dead on at one hundred and at one hundred

478
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: and fifty five yards, my gun is going to drop,

479
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, eight to eight to ten inches at that range.

480
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,959
Speaker 1: I'm not shooting a crazy load. We didn't go through

481
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of development. I didn't want to shoot.

482
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: You don't necessarily shoot long range on a gun that

483
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: I have that's capable, so you know, on the video

484
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: we get to watch and I splashed the dirt that

485
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: looks about two to three inches below his brisket. I'm

486
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: very thankful we didn't touch him and it actually went low.

487
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: But it was very defeating. You know, it was a

488
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: great five point bowl, you know, very healthy, very good

489
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: five and just completely missed and botched it. The more

490
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: depressing thing maybe than missing. Don't get me wrong, I

491
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 1: wasn't real happy with the miss. But we spent me

492
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: and Tyler spent the rest of the day hiking and

493
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: hiking some more without anybody around us, no boot tracks,

494
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: multiple different areas we would you know, hit a trail,

495
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: run the ridge lines because in some of this different

496
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: pincho stuff that's very very steep, we would rent the

497
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: ridge lines, try to cut tracks and just couldn't cut tracks.

498
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: And areas that always held elk, some of my best areas,

499
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: we would run them nothing. And this isn't a point

500
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: to say that we hiked a long ways or look

501
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: how much effort we did. It was more to show

502
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: that there weren't elk aside from the one herd. We

503
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 1: did a little over seventeen miles on that first day

504
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,239
Speaker 1: and cut one set of fresh elk tracks the entire day,

505
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: and that's the herd that I'm missed.

506
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 2: The bowl out of rinse and repeat.

507
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: So we've now got two days, and we've got a

508
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: nine point seven mile day in and a seventeen and

509
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: some odd mile day day three. I change up my plan. I,

510
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, I don't like combat hunting. My

511
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: goal was to let's go look at an area that

512
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: usually has more elk but more people. I just want

513
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: to see if they're elk there, if the sign's still there,

514
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: go there. Put in an eleven mile day and nothing,

515
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: not a single elk track, lots of people, And so

516
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: I make the decision that after that day, we're going

517
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: to head home and we're going to hunt more local.

518
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: If we can.

519
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: My dad had texted me he had missed a bowl

520
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 1: on opening morning, got rushed a little bit, and so

521
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: I had a pretty hot tip on where I should

522
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: be able to get into legal bulls, and so we

523
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: headed home. But I want to recap that different pincho

524
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: a little bit there's an old burn on the Yackle

525
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: way back. I can't even get the dates right, early

526
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds that burnt the top of the Gifford pincho

527
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: off and that was where all the deer and elk

528
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: have fed. And I believe over these last ten years

529
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: we're starting to finally get that like final growing growth,

530
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: where a lot of their food sources are done the

531
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: trees that the brush is kind of choking up their feed,

532
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: and what we're seeing is we're seeing less and less

533
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: elk in that country. I put a number on it.

534
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to use this number in both locations about

535
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: the high country and the low country. I would bet

536
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: we've seen a seventy to seventy five percent reduction in

537
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: our elk numbers compared to what I used to be

538
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: able to see up there, compared to what's up there.

539
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm not an environmentalist at all. I grow up in

540
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: the middle of you know, industrial timberlands. My family have

541
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: all made their livings off of logging, and I think

542
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: that may be one of the things that we're running

543
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: into up there, is where the Gifford Pinchot and whatnot

544
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: have always been logged. I would say the forest logs

545
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: a little bit more strategically, but they would always log

546
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: at sixty seventy year cycles. And what that does is

547
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: clear cutting opens up new growth, new food, new brush

548
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: sources for elk, elk or browsers. They need to have

549
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: that brush and they need to have it staged out

550
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: in a way that when one clear cut, the jackpirs

551
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: grow up, the brush goes away, they can move to

552
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: the next one. And right now, aside from doing some

553
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: fire brake cutting along some of these roads, we are

554
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: logging hardly anything up there, especially not clearcutting. We're doing

555
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: some thinning, but my understanding is they try to set

556
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: out units and it gets shut down in courts. You know,

557
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: there's there's special interest groups, there's environmental groups that are

558
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: shutting down the logging of these National Forest Service and

559
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: in my opinion, it's ultimately hurting the elk and the

560
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: deer as they've relied on that for many many years

561
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: in that area as their food sources. And now with

562
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: the high Country also compounding that, there's just not enough

563
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: food to sustain you know, life up there. I guess

564
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: as far as elkreds and even deer concern, the other

565
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: major issue they have up. There are cats right now.

566
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: We think we have problems down here in the lowlands

567
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: with cats. The high country is just overloaded with cats

568
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: and cats cleaning up damages. Like I mentioned earlier that

569
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: herd had nine cows in it, and we had one

570
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: successful calf to that entire herd. So when you're getting

571
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: recruitment it just barely over ten percent. It's just not

572
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: going to be sustainable to keep those populations growing. You're

573
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: barely able to maintain. If you assume that those cows

574
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: are all going to be gone by ten years, you're

575
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: basically replacing one cow per year, and so basically you're

576
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: not growing. You're just barely trying to hang on to

577
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: your population. And we all have to assume that as

578
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: elk numbers go down, the cats are going to even

579
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: do more damage to those elk that are left. It's

580
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: just a compounding issue. But so we left the high Country.

581
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: We came back down to what I would consider my

582
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: local grounds here in pl and I meet up with

583
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: my dad on that next morning. He's and I decided

584
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: to just kind of play defense. Like Dad, your bowl,

585
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: you go hunt it. We'll just kind of walk the

586
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: walk the other edge and just kind of see if

587
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: you do kick something up, we'll be over there. So

588
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: we get through it. A few fresh elk tracks in there,

589
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: probably from the day that he had missed a couple

590
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: of days prior. And it's a great, great piece of timber.

591
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: It's one of those piece of timbers you can look

592
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: one hundred, one hundred and fifty yards through, got good

593
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: trails in there, so we're able to move really, really

594
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: quietly and just perfect.

595
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: So we're making our way through.

596
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: There, we're finishing our loop, he's finishing his, and we

597
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: get to a spot where we can hear some brush

598
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: rustling around, rattling around here off the trail, And this

599
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: is where it's very important. I should have been paying

600
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: more attention to how everything laid out in this patch

601
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: of timber, because at the point where we hear the

602
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: elk rattling around, your your instinct is to go in

603
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: there and try to get a view of where they're at.

604
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: But if I would have paid attention prior, and I'll

605
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: get to this after as I left this setup, it

606
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: was way way better on anywhere else I could have

607
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: went besides where I was. But regardless, we go in,

608
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: we go into this piece of timber about forty yards

609
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: and anybody that's ever you know, got into a fringe

610
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: or a road break, you know, they call it that

611
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: shade line where where there's no shade where the sun

612
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: can hit you always got this wall of brush. So

613
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: we kind of get through there real quietly. We can

614
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: still hear the elk up there, breaking brush, So we

615
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: just do a little bit of cow calf sequence calling

616
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: kind of a cow back to a calf, half back

617
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: to a cow, and we get a bowld of bugle

618
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: up in there as well as here in the brush

619
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: russeller realm, and then we get a bowl to bugle

620
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: back to our left as well as we're calling, and

621
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: you can hear. It's one of those things where you

622
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: feel like you should be able to see the elk,

623
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: but it's so thick and so brushy. But I had

624
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: a few lanes to the right of this pile of

625
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: brush and to the left, which is probably eighty yards

626
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: up the hill, and just as is I would love liked,

627
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: I've got a cow comes to my shooting lane at

628
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: like seventy yards wide open, and the second cow comes through.

629
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: When the third cow comes through, well, why this is happening?

630
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 1: I can see a cow and a calf that are

631
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: walking down this shooting lane towards us. I'm like, well,

632
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: this is great. That bowl was with him. He's going

633
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: to cross. But I gave myself no ability to shoot

634
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: to the left or right of the shooting lane. And guess,

635
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: just like I should have expected, no surprise when that

636
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: bowl comes through the shooting lane, he's running behind the

637
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: next cow that comes across. He shoots across that in

638
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: a second, and I had no shot. We sit there

639
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: for a little bit. I don't know where my dad's at.

640
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: He doesn't know where the elk are at. He claims

641
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: he didn't walk up the spur road that was above him.

642
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: But ultimately these elk wind us and bust out, and

643
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: they don't win me or Tyler, my camera guy. They

644
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: win something else or something else isn't right because we

645
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: have the wind perfect the whole entire time. But when

646
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: I back out of this timber, I'm frustrated with myself.

647
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, gosh, dang, I wish I think would have

648
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: just walked through there. I'd had a great shot. As

649
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: I moved just ten yards down the trail I was

650
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: walking on before I pushed myself into this brush. I

651
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: could have seen all of those elk in the wide

652
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: open the entire time, and so it was just being

653
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: you know, not thinking about my setup, not thinking about

654
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: how this lays out, and if these elk do come out,

655
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: where I'm gonna be able to shoot, and the same thing.

656
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: If I would have been ten yards back down the road,

657
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: I probably could have seen. But I decided to nose

658
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: in right in this you know, little draw where it

659
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: was brushy, and I did it to myself, so that

660
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: legal bowl kind of ended.

661
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: Up getting away.

662
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: We chased them around a little bit, caught back up

663
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: to them twice, but ultimately could never never make that happen.

664
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: So we spent the next three days around home hunting

665
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: every patch of timber that that we you know, either

666
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: had a hot lead or a warm lead or you

667
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: know spots where I used to hunt. And it was dismal.

668
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: It was it was extremely bad. We had it was

669
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: pouring down rain, which most people don't like for hunting

670
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: the timber around here. I absolutely love. I can sneak in,

671
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: I can be quiet.

672
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 2: Nothing.

673
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: We didn't see an elk for those three days, aside

674
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: from some down low, you know, actually near my house,

675
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: and we could tell that somewhere we're hoof frauded in

676
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: this herd. You know, we probably had sixty percent of

677
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: the elk in this herd limping, and I didn't really

678
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, we got permission to hunt this piece, you know,

679
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'd rather go try to find something

680
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: up in the hills or something that's not not have

681
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: any issues. And then ultimately the last day rolled around,

682
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: I was I was able to spot these elk kind

683
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: of staging to get back into this piece of private

684
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 1: so I knew they should be back that morning. They

685
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: were going to come down, you know, in the in

686
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: the farmers field and kind of hang out there for

687
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: the night. So we get out there the next morning.

688
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: We're able to it's very very foggy on Friday morning.

689
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: We can spot just silhouettes, barely silhouettes. It probably you know,

690
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: four hundred yards away out in the field. And so

691
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: we make a move, come down a road that I

692
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: have some property on and one of the guys I

693
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: graduated with had property on. We were able to access

694
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: into this area through there. And you know, a lot

695
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: of times these private land hunts, don't get me wrong,

696
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: they're just as much shooting an elk as it is

697
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: hunting an elk. So I'm not trying to claim but

698
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: this is a little different.

699
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: These elk had.

700
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: Pushed out to the middle of the field in the

701
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: far end kind of, and with a muzzle order, you

702
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,239
Speaker 1: can't just you know, shoot across the field like like

703
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: you normally would. So I get to the first fence

704
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: and I'm ranging things. I'm like, all right, two hundred

705
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: and fifty yards three hundred yards, you know, the elk

706
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: were split between two fifty or three hundred, and I

707
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: had another fence row about one hundred and twenty yards away.

708
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, a right, if I can get to that,

709
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: I should have a good shot. The only problem is

710
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: it was a balance of getting daylight. It was shooting

711
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: light well before I could actually shoot due to the

712
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: fog and the clouds. It was the ground was saturated

713
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: and wet, and yet I didn't know how well they

714
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: could see through the fog because I couldn't actually see

715
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: him with my naked eyes. I could only see him

716
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: with the binoculars kind of looking through the fog. And

717
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: so I make the decision that I'm just going to

718
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: kind of belly crawl or knee crawl or low crawl

719
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: when I can, and try to get as close to

720
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: that next fence fence row as I can. After some

721
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: three or four stops getting out there, we were able

722
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: to get to that fence. There was a bigger bowl

723
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: out there with the herd. They were actually still running

724
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: pretty good here on October thirteenth. It was Friday the thirteenth.

725
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: The bull that I wanted to kill anyways, the one

726
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: with a little bit of hoof frat had a drop

727
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: kind of his mainbeam drops off of his ear, and

728
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: then he had three eye guards kind of coming up.

729
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: We were able to get within He was the last

730
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: bowl in the herd. It was him and two spikes

731
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: at the back, and then the herd bull was kind

732
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: of pushing cows around. I was able to get within

733
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: about one hundred and forty five yards of him, get

734
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: a great rest, and was able to take that bowl.

735
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was it was a difficult hunt. I

736
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: would have just assumed do it up on public. But

737
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: you know, some of these elk with hoof rat, you know,

738
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: we we still don't know how they spread or how

739
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: it works, and so at times we're all more than

740
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: willing to take one of these out in hopes that

741
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: or that it prevents the spread of this. So that

742
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: was kind of my my muzzled or hunting a rap.

743
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: They were still bugling, you know, in the high country.

744
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: They were still buggling around home, which a lot of

745
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: times when you get into that, you know that that

746
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: third point of October October tenth, they typically start to

747
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: be quiet. But we still had some pretty good bugling,

748
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: even for our resident elk. But that was that was

749
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: the recap on that. And so I want to I

750
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: want to roll into hoof fraud a lot. You know,

751
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are listening may not know

752
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: exactly what hoof fraud is uh and where it comes from.

753
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: And I don't claim to be a biologist. I'm working

754
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: with cal here at Meat Eater. It's been very important.

755
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: It's been a sensitive topic and important to me that

756
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: we try to figure it out. I know doctor Wilde

757
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: over at Washington State University is doing research on it.

758
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: They're now collecting hoofs from you know, any elk that

759
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: that shows to have signs of hoof frought. But there's

760
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,479
Speaker 1: there's a lot of speculation, you know, and some people

761
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: may be mad at me for saying speculation, but a

762
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: lot of people, you know, there are there are strains

763
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: of hoof frot within cattle. There are supposedly up to

764
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: forty strains of hoof frot within the elk, And don't

765
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: don't take these all verbatim or or for you know,

766
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: the ultimate truth. I'm just passing on you know what

767
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: I know. But what ultimately happened about thirty years and

768
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: we were kind of the epicenter of this hoof fraught.

769
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: We started to notice our elk were limping and we

770
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: would kill these elk that would have Basically what happens

771
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: is their hoof will start to get extended, it will

772
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: grow long in brittle. A lot of times, even if

773
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: you think of like an elf shoot, some of these

774
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: elks hoofs have started to curl up and under themselves

775
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: and they get very long, brittle. They ultimately break them off,

776
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: and then this infection or absess, whatever you want to

777
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: call it, will then go up the leg. We've killed

778
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: some of them that are almost all the way up

779
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: to their knee basically walking and hobbling around on it.

780
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: And the sad part is we tried to everybody know

781
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: thirty years ago, but nobody seemed to care. When it

782
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 1: was just you know, Western Washington, Roosevelt elk. A lot

783
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: of US locals got very concerned. We talked about it,

784
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: but nothing was really done. Now what we have are

785
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: elk and Oregon that are also infected with it, elk

786
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: that are in Idaho that have confirmed cases, and so

787
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: it's it's very disturbing to think that this may take

788
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: off and where does a spread stop. So I think

789
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: everybody should become aware of it. Everybody should get involved.

790
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: It's not just a Roosevelt thing. It's not it's able

791
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: to go Roosevelt Rockies, and it's just it's it's it's

792
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: the most disheartening thing ever to see a herd of

793
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: elk out in the field and seventy of them or

794
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, seventy percent of them limping.

795
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 2: It just sucks.

796
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: You know, we had a herd here just in my

797
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: yard at my house.

798
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: It was snowing.

799
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: I went out just to look at their tracks, and

800
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 1: you could have you would have thought somebody had shot

801
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: in elk and what we should be tracking them because

802
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: there's blood and in their track as they go along.

803
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: Like I say, there's a lot of speculation, you know,

804
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: Some people like to blame you know, timberlands and their

805
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: their spraying and how it may affect the immune system

806
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: of elk that's now allowed to catch it. Some people

807
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: may say it's it's you know, I I don't claim

808
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: to know if it's bacterial or virus or how any

809
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: of that stuff works. It's just it's disheartening and and

810
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: I've got my fingers crossed that doctor Wilde in the

811
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: WSU staff can kind of figure this out. But yeah,

812
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: Washington Department of Fishing Wildlife has a has a great

813
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: couple websites and pages on how fraud if you want

814
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: to learn more. But I encourage everybody to get involved.

815
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: Urge Rocking Mountain Elk Foundation to get involved. It's something

816
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: I think, you know, nobody cares intil it's in their backyard,

817
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: but I think it's something that all elk hunters and

818
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: everybody that that you know has a love for the

819
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: animal should care about. We talked about earlier elk populations

820
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: in western Washington. We grew up in an area that

821
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: was probably some of the most dense elk you know,

822
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: populations anywhere, and we are well below carrying capacity, well

823
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: well below I don't know what the solution is. I

824
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: always hate proposing that we take away opportunity, but at

825
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: some point, if we can't get a plan in place

826
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: to manage predators, which the Fish and Wildlife Commission has

827
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: ultimately said they want to take away from all of us,

828
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: regardless of you know, we don't even have hounds, we

829
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: don't have baiting. But if we can't hunt them at all,

830
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: we're going to be really really hamstrung on how we're

831
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: going to deal with this. In my opinion, the way

832
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: to get it back is to take out more cats,

833
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: take out more bears, take out more coyotes, things that

834
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: attack you know, the calves and can put a dent

835
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: into them. We need to have more recruitment as far

836
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,479
Speaker 1: as calves, and we really need to you know, hunt

837
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: predators more than we are, especially since we have the

838
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: ability to hunt with hounds and bait taken away from us.

839
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: So that's my opinion. It comes down to a predator issue.

840
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: But at some point, if we can't like us as hunters,

841
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: may need to look at are we over harvesting? I

842
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: know it, So what nobody wants to hear. Do we

843
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: need to look at shorter seasons? But in my opinion,

844
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: the resource itself and the health of the resource is

845
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: more important than my ability to hunt. And I know

846
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people will say, well, you're fortunate you

847
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: get to hunt out of state and go to where

848
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: there are I agree, I am very fortunate, But regardless,

849
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: I think it's important that we give this elkert.

850
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 2: A chance to come back.

851
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: Another thing that's not going to be very liked is

852
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: I don't think there should be any cow tags given

853
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: in an area that's well below capacity. It doesn't take

854
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: a biologist or a scientist to understand that you rebuild

855
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: your herd through the cows. So with that said, I

856
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: think one of the ways we can make a difference.

857
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: Hunters are very Sometimes we're not lazy in the sense

858
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: that we get after it down the mountain, but I

859
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: think hunters are very They don't like the idea of

860
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: getting involved in right now. I think we need to

861
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: be as involved as ever. And that's not just for

862
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: Washington State residence. That's for everybody, know, whether it's you know,

863
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: the Hell Organization or like we just formed a new

864
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: coalition for wildlife in Washington. We need to get involved

865
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: because you know, we've got a commission meeting here in

866
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: Washington the twenty six to the twenty eight, where they're

867
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 1: talking about and voting on whether we're gonna hunt predators

868
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: at all, whether coyotes, whether cats, whether bears, cougars, any

869
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: of that stuff is hunted at all, like whether they're

870
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: gonna take it off the table. So we got to

871
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: get very involved. I encourage anybody in state or out

872
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: of state, jump on our WDFW website and send our

873
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: commissioners well thought out, you know, a message or or

874
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: a note on on why you feel that that's a

875
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: mistake and why they need to get back to the

876
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: North American model for wildlife. But I appreciate all of

877
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,439
Speaker 1: you joining in. That was my twenty two twenty three

878
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: Musli or El Cunning recap. Yeah, it was a tough one,

879
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: very fortunate to kill a ball, not exactly the way

880
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: I wanted. But enjoy all of you guys, uh you know,

881
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: sending your questions, keep sending them to us until next time.

882
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, cutting the distance, and good luck to

883
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: everybody out there in their fall pursuits.