1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristin, 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: I'm Caroline, and today we are talking about East cigarettes 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: and vaping and Caroline, we are really getting in early 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: on this whole vaping thing because, unlike most Stuff Mom 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: Never Told You episodes, it's still so much in the 7 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: early phases of popularity that we don't even have hard 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: numbers as to how many lady vapors lady East cigarette 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: users are out there. Yeah, I know, well, but we 10 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: know they're out there because they're very vocal online and 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: forums and list serves and commenting under negative vaping press. Yeah, 12 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: and I and I know some lady too vape. I 13 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: know some fellows toovape, I know some ladies who vape. 14 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: But while I feel like most people have probably heard 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: of East cigarettes, not as many people might be familiar 16 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: with vaping. Um, so what are we talking about? Yeah, 17 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: so vaping it's part of the lingo, Kristen, some lingo 18 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: lingos slide neat, Yeah, let's refer to Urban Dictionary. Well, 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: it's it's basically just a term for smoking or puffing 20 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: on not really smoking an electronic cigarette and It works 21 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: by heating up a combination of a little bit of water, 22 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: some flavoring, uh, some some nicotine usually and the main ingredient, 23 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: which is propylene glycol and or glycerin. Yeah, and all 24 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: of this is called the juice. You may put on 25 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: some e juice sounds so gross to my brain, Yeah, 26 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't. It doesn't sound very good. Although vapen on 27 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: e juice does not sound I'll be honest, it doesn't 28 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: sound appetizing, but it could. Okay, vape not a juice, 29 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: just I just slipping on gin and juice. I think 30 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: that now needs to be redone as well. And I 31 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: bet there is a gin and juice flavored e juice. 32 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 1: But that's that, Caroline. That's another podcast for a whole 33 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: different time. Um. But the way that the science of 34 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: this vaping is that this juice is heated to around 35 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: four degrees fahrenheit sorry Celsius users, um, and a heating 36 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: element in the electronic cigarette in the in the implement 37 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: ariostolis is that solution and then you inhale it an 38 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: unlike smoking an actual cigarette, Um, it's not necessarily as harsh. 39 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: It's obviously considered healthier because it's more vapor. I mean 40 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: it's water vapor as opposed to uh carcinogen enriched smoke. Well, 41 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of water vapor. I mean it's not really 42 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: water or vaporite. There's some water in it, but there's 43 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: also it's mainly that glitzer in our glad Hall combo. 44 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: There's a lot of preservatives in there. And you know, 45 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: obviously if you're infusing it with nicotine. You people do 46 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: vape with just flavored e juice, no, no nicotine, but 47 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: you know you're you're still inhaling preservatives, metals and nicotine. Yeah, 48 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: and we're going to get into that question of whether 49 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: it is actually healthier because I know of people who 50 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: use them as a way to quit smoking or to 51 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: cut back on smoking. Um. I know people who do 52 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: it just because they enjoy the flavor, and people who 53 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: do it specifically as a healthier alternative to cigarettes. But 54 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: the fascinating thing about the cigarettes and vaping is that 55 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: it has not been around long at all. They were 56 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: actually first developed by a Chinese pharmacist, Han lick Um 57 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: in two thousand three under Dragon Night Cigarettes, and he 58 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: created it as an alternative to ye old smokes and 59 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, East cigarettes entered the US market, 60 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: so where it's still early enough that the FDA is 61 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: only now getting around to should we regulate this stuff? 62 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: How should we regulate this stuff? As the time we're 63 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: recording this podcast, for instance, there is no age restriction 64 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: on purchasing e cigarettes. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely on 65 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: the rise, because sales in the US surpassed one billion 66 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: in which was double sales, so it doubled in just 67 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: a year, and the Bloomberg Industries expects that this particular 68 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: industry will lap tobacco cigarettes sales by twenty seven. So 69 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: cigarette manufacturers are definitely keeping an eye on it. Yeah, 70 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: and they're getting in on the East cigarette game as well. 71 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: And when it comes to demographics, like I said at 72 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: the beginning of the podcast, it's still so early, we 73 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of hard numbers on men versus women, 74 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: because in fact, a lot of the research, the demographic 75 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: focus research right now is really paying closest attention to 76 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: the youth market, largely because more of them are trying it. 77 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: More the kids of these days it's kids with a 78 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: z are vaping and it's again it's not age restricted, 79 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: and so the centers for Disease Control estimates that one 80 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: point seven million students in grades six through twelve, that's 81 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: ten percent of them in the US had tried vaping 82 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: in up from four point seven percent of students in 83 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: just two thousand eleven, and I'm sure since then the 84 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: numbers have gone up even further. And of course there's 85 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: concerns around it because of the whole gateway issue whether 86 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: kids will pick up cigarettes after they try vape bang, 87 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: And it kind of goes back to the whole cigarette 88 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: advertising issue, which we'll talk about more as far as 89 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: like Joe Cambell and how you can't they can't advertise 90 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: using Joe Cambell anymore because cartoon characters imagine that appealed 91 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: to children. Yeah. Well, and there's a whole health issue too. 92 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: I mean, younger kids have still developing tender, precious lungs 93 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: and like you think your line, it's not just water 94 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: vapor that they are inhaling. So a lot of public 95 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: health UM researchers are really looking closely at this issue. Well, so, 96 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: why why is it on the rise like so rapidly? 97 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,119 Speaker 1: What is up with the rapid increase in the number 98 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: of vapors while there are all sorts of reasons. Um, 99 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: I think that it goes back to, for instance, why 100 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: han like developed the first one in two thousand three 101 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: to begin with as an alternative to cigarettes. There are 102 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: lots of smoking bands being enacted, um, all over the country, 103 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: all over the world, because we are realizing, oh, hey, 104 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: cigarettes are in no way, shape or form good for you, 105 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: nor is secondhand smoke. So but are allowed to smoke 106 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: cigarettes in places that they were. However, you can get 107 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: around if you still want to puff on something. You 108 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: can vape, and you can vape and all sorts of 109 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: dentalizing flavors. Caroline, you could also buy bubblegum cigars. That's 110 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: just my helpful, Um, is that what you puff on? Caroline? Yeah, 111 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: I carried around a blue bubblegum cigar at all times. Yeah, 112 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: she's cool among the kids. I really am, I really, 113 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: I really am. But yeah, So as far as the 114 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: helping people quit smoking thing, I mean that seems like 115 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: definitely a great benefit, but does it actually help people. 116 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: Studies have found that the cigarettes are as effective as 117 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: other smoking cessation aids. I do know that wasn't there 118 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: an issue though with like the f d A and 119 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: calling them smoking secession aids, Like, weren't you supposed to 120 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: call them something else because they haven't quite been f 121 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: d A fully in f d A vetted yet. That 122 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: sounds correct. Yeah, But so there was a twenty fourteen 123 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: study that shows you how like recent all of the 124 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: research into cigarettes is. But there was a study and 125 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: addiction that found that the cigarette users were six more 126 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: likely to quit smoking cigarettes than smokers who were going 127 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: cold turkey or trying patches and gum, which makes total sense. 128 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: I don't have a statistics in front of me on 129 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: the success rate of going cold turkey, um, but it 130 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: is to meet a person who goes cold turkey and 131 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: quits for forever on the first try. That person has 132 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: herculean willpower. It just rarely happened. And it's not only 133 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: the addiction to nicotine and tobacco, but it's even just 134 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: the feel of holding something in your hand, the way 135 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: that you use them in social situations like there. There's 136 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: a lot more to quitting smoking than just being like, 137 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: oh I don't I don't like the taste anymore. And 138 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: so the cigarettes have been, you know, very much touted 139 00:08:53,720 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: as a bridge between um smoking and being smoke free. Yeah, 140 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: and and it's not just an issue of helping people 141 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: kick the habit of smoking cigarettes. It's also, as we 142 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, a huge question in terms of public health 143 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: when it comes to whether kids are using them to 144 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: start smoking. Yeah, that's and and a lot of our 145 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: searchers with like the problem with this, the fact that 146 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: this is unregulated right now is that only time will 147 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: tell whether kids will transition from vaping to smoking tobacco cigarettes. 148 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: And we don't really want that to happen at all 149 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: because the jury is still out on the health factor. Yeah, 150 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: and so, I mean, obviously, as Krista mentioned, the cigarettes 151 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: are a healthier alternative if you're gonna smoke cigarettes or 152 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna vape. Obviously, vaping is the lesser of two 153 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: evils because you're not actively burning tobacco leaves and inhaling 154 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of nicotine and a whole bunch of 155 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: cancer causing agents and ex silling as harmful secondhand smoke. Right. 156 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: You know, although you know people who vape flavored the juice, 157 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: do be aware, you know, not everybody likes the smell 158 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: of artificial blueberries or or other or cotton candy. I 159 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: mean literally, like so many adventurous flavors, which to some 160 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: people probably standing around people who are vaping, that might 161 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: actually be the scent might actually be the biggest side 162 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: effect of that um. But according to tobacco epidemiologist John Spangler, 163 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: who was also a professor at Wake Forest School of Medicine, 164 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: he says, they are certainly a better alternative to smoking tobacco, 165 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: which is the leading cause of preventable death in the US. 166 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: And he was talking to Cosmopolitan magazine and I cite 167 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: that source because this is an issue that women are 168 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: talking about as well. Yeah, and so in terms of 169 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: health effects though, because there are some nicotine and tobacco 170 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: research study found that when that a Jew's cocktail is 171 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: heated to those super high temperatures, especially with the cigarettes 172 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: that come in these new variable voltage models, it can 173 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: release potentially toxic carbonyls, including formalde hyde, acitala hyde, aced tone, 174 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: so like the stuff that you use to take your 175 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: nail polish off and mute and all, although of course 176 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: at lower levels than comes out of cigarettes. And in 177 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: ten you see Riverside cell biologists Prude Talbot, whose name 178 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: I absolutely love, Prue Prude, Prue Talbot that sounds so 179 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: wonderfully Puritan UH found a high concentration of heavy metals 180 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: and silicates in the East cigarette vapor as well, and 181 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: it actually came from the heating element of the East cigarettes. 182 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: So yes, there are their chemicals and preservatives and stuff 183 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: in the vapor, yes, but there's also issues of that 184 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: super high heat and that liquid cocktail that's going on 185 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: in the cigarette heating up and releasing its own metallic 186 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: elements well, and even determining what someone inhales every time 187 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: they puff on their vape, which I feel like I'm 188 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: using incorrect terminology, um, but every time they inhale it is. 189 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: It's also hard to determine how much of these substances 190 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: are really going into their lungs because it's going to 191 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: depend on the concentration of chemicals in the juice, it's 192 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 1: going to depend on the voltage how hard you inhale UM. So, 193 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: for instance, as for nicotine, the amount of nicotine that 194 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: you might get into your system, the the the amount 195 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: listed for instance, even on packages might not always be accurate, 196 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: and you just don't know how much nicotine is being 197 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: inhaled with each pulse. So all of this to say 198 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: that it's it's it's kind of interesting to see how 199 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: researchers are only just now in the past couple of years, 200 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: grappling with how to even start figuring out what the 201 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: actual health effects are, what these things really can and 202 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: are doing to our bodies, because again, they haven't been 203 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: around long enough for long term studies to assess both 204 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: their first and second hand health effects, which again goes 205 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: back to why a lot of people are concerned about 206 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: the kids. Yeah, and especially since there is that whole 207 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: and we'll talk about this more in a minute too, 208 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: there's that whole sort of d i y culture around 209 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: the cigarettes too. There's a lot of people who make 210 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: their own, even legit manufacturers out there, all have different 211 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: designs that affect the vapor and the chemical load you inhale, 212 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: and your individual vaping habits can affect how much nicotine 213 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: or other chemicals that you potentially inhale, And so there's 214 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: a lot of variables out there that we're just not 215 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: sure about yet. Yeah, and at this point, I had 216 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: a feeling some listeners are wondering why we're randomly doing 217 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: a podcast about East cigarettes. What does that have to 218 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: do with women? We don't even have a precise statistic 219 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: of how many women are vaping. Well, that's because we 220 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: really wanted to after offering an introduction of what these 221 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: cigarettes are, because their popularity is growing exponentially. They are, 222 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, they're so big at this point that Big 223 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: Tobacco is really paying attention to them and even getting 224 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: in on these kinds of products as well. And with that, 225 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: the vaping industry is targeting women. And this is such 226 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: a fascinating case study in how companies are are still 227 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: using very old techniques to engage women into starting up 228 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: new habits such as vaping. And this goes all the 229 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: way back to right after World War One, UM, when 230 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: the American Tobacco Company decided, you know what, we need 231 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: to get ladies smoking some cigarettes. How can we do that. 232 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: We need to get all these these flapper gals smoking 233 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: more of these cigarettes, see right, Well they do, Caroline. 234 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: So they hired a Mr. Edward Burnet's, who's considered the 235 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: founder of pr or as it was called at the time, 236 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: engineering consent to get women to smoke. Because you want 237 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: to make money, that's your primary objective, right, and so 238 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: you need more customers, and smoking was not considered the 239 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: most ladylike thing, especially for a woman in public. Perhaps 240 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: so she was at home alone in the drawing room 241 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: or something, she could smoke, but certainly not. It was 242 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: definitely considered inappropriate and unladylike and kind of trashy. But 243 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: there were pockets of women in New York City who 244 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: were flouting social rules. They were considered this thing you 245 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: call a feminist um and they were just not only 246 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: were they flatting like social norms and gender norms, but 247 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: they were also picking up cigarettes. They were starting to smoke, 248 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: because that was considered such a male habit to have, 249 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: and they were like, well, screw you were equal in 250 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,359 Speaker 1: all ways, we might as well smoke too, And Burnet's 251 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: capitalized on this. Oh Bernet's was brilliant. He marketed cigarettes 252 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: as torches of freedom for women, and in nineteen nine 253 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: he famously staged this Torches of Freedom smoking demonstration during 254 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: the New York City Easter Day Parade, and it was 255 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: this whole thing of ladies, listen, you now have the 256 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: right to vote. You're becoming your own women, and if 257 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: you really want to be equal to men, well then 258 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: you should light up a smoke. And photos from this 259 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: parade are so fascinating because these women are just they're 260 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: essentially protesting and smoking and that's the way that they 261 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: are demonstrating their equality. And you have, like the male 262 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: allies to smoking alongside with them. Yeah. She, I'm cool, 263 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: She all right? Yeah. And I just I just have 264 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: to roll my eyes because and I mean, we're gonna 265 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: obviously draw parallels between this original cigarette marketing in terms 266 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: of drawing in women and the vaping marketing that's going 267 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: on too, But I mean this is just yet another 268 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: instance of capitalizing on social movements and sort of co 269 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: opting an entire movement of women into using it for 270 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: your own advertising and money making purposes. So just general disclaimer, people, 271 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: I just like to hammer home how aware you should 272 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: be of any marketing or advertising you're looking at, because 273 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people love to capitalize on hot topics 274 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: of the day, and certainly women's rights and feminism were 275 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: a hot topic in that time, and we see that 276 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: very much too still today in what should be a 277 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: podcast for another time, with modern marketing and feminism and 278 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: sort of capitalizing on all of the conversations happening around 279 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: that today. Um. But in addition though to this whole 280 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: equality angle, Big Tobacco did focus their advertisements to women, 281 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: in portrayals of women in their advertisements. Um, they did 282 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: tie in female insecurities as well, because of course you 283 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: have to play on that to continue selling your goods. 284 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: And so as we Um talked about some in our 285 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: podcast on women in Chocolate and the fascinating marketing that 286 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: went around that was lucky strikes, reach for a lucky 287 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: instead of a suite, which the chocolate industry was really 288 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: frustrated with because they were like, Okay, well, ladies are 289 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 1: always concerned about their figure, so have a smoke, if 290 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: you're hungry, have a cigarette instead. You won't you won't 291 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: gain a thing, Caroline. And of course this is in 292 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: the context of the whole Gibson girl, our glass curvy 293 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: silhouette going out of fashion and these slim, slender flapper 294 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: silhouette being very much in vogue. Yeah, and you also 295 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: see with Marl bro It's advertisements that it's tobacco was 296 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: quote mild as may, so that ties in a more 297 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: feminizing element to the actual product itself, of oh, don't 298 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: worry if it's if cigarettes seemed like they'll be harsh. 299 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: Our as are mild as may prue, Oh prude, don't worry, 300 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: that's mild as may right. And of course Chesterfield Cigarettes 301 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: featured an illustration of a woman kind of just hanging 302 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: out with a cigarette. And it's this whole the copy 303 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: on the added so funny to me and so fascinating 304 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: because she's basically having a conversation with herself about like 305 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: should I smoke? Well, I mean I think, I guess 306 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: it's okay. I think I'll give it a shot. It's 307 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: not that bad, and she tells herself, after all, women 308 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: started to smoke just about the time they began to vote, 309 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: and what a convenient correlation. Um. And then Philip Morris 310 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: took it even further and just said, hey, believe in yourselves, ladies, 311 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: believe in yourselves. Light up. I don't. I don't know 312 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: what that has to do with cigarettes, but if you know, 313 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,479 Speaker 1: believe in yourself, so inspirational. Yeah. Well, and of course, 314 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: I mean this doesn't even get us up to This 315 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: is decades before Virginia Slims famous um very like harping 316 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: on secred wave feminism of you've come a long way, baby, 317 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: you know, being like ladies. I mean, it's always been 318 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: kind of the Torches of freedom sort of thing. And 319 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 1: just just to drive home though, how intensive this pr 320 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: campaign was to really teach women how to smoke and 321 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: also to hey, believe in yourself. Um. There was a 322 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: feature in Life magazine, um showing this, uh, this woman, 323 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: this younger woman who was giving a demonstration to a 324 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: group of older women on the proper way to smoke 325 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: in public. And I just have to read this caption. Um, 326 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: men's pet peeves against women's smokers are messy ways of 327 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: opening packages, affected mannerisms, puffing like a steam engine, and lipsticks, mayors, 328 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: heaven goodness. And of course women's pet peeves about male 329 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: smokers were using dishes and dowsing butts under the faucet 330 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: and then dropping them in the sinks. So of course 331 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: women were being criticized for being messy and not feminine 332 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: and men were being criticized for just making a mess basically. Well, 333 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: also men had the lipsticks to me is on there 334 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: as well. That's another thing to talk about entirely. Um, 335 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: And all of this though, we just wanted to offer 336 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: this primer to keep in mind as we talk about 337 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: what the growing vaping industry is doing in terms of 338 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: marketing to women because they're pulling the same tricks out. 339 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: So we offered this refresher course to keep in mind 340 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: as we talk about how the vaping market today is 341 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: really targeting women in very similar kinds of ways. And 342 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that when we come right back from 343 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: a quick break and now back to the show. Okay, 344 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: so right before we left off, we were talking about 345 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: the incredible efforts that the cigarette manufacturers and their PR 346 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: people went to to market cigarettes to women, because of 347 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: course it was considered a very unladylike to smoke at 348 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: the time until we got our whole framing of cigarettes 349 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: as torches of freedom. Yeah, they engineered our constant, that's right, 350 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: and who wouldn't want to torch of freedom? But so 351 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: when we look to vape marketing today, it's really not 352 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: that different. And well, I should preface this by saying 353 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: it's great to have more options, and it's great to 354 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: have alternatives to smoking a cigarette. It is always important 355 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: to keep marketing in mind and look at these things 356 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: with a critical eye. And Kristen and I looked at 357 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: this resource from Stanford that basically showed and compiled a 358 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: slew of vaping ads marketing marketing. These products on the 359 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: Internet and in other various places. And one of the 360 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: themes that I thought was so interesting was the whole 361 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: issue of freedom that was repeated over and over and 362 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,239 Speaker 1: over again in these ads, and some I think are 363 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: even called things along the lines of like freedom or freedom. Yeah. Okay, 364 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: so we've got our torches of freedom. Now we have 365 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: like electronic freedom sticks basically. But yeah, it's that whole 366 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: idea that like, you're you're taking a social desire, which 367 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: is to not be oppressed by smoking bands anymore, and 368 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: to to be a free American, a free woman and 369 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: a free woman, and you're using it to market your product. Yeah, 370 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating to see how that that idea of freedom, 371 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: specifically you know, targeted to women has evolved. Um. And 372 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: on top of the whole freedom from smoking bands angle, 373 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: you also have health money saving because you're not buying 374 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: pack after pack. The flavors which will get into get 375 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: so hyper feminine it's mind boggling. Um. There's the celebrity endorsement. 376 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: I've seen, for instance, one ad with Jenny McCarthy. Um. 377 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: So another critical I don't always do as celebrities do. Um. 378 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: There's also the tech appeal, but you don't see the 379 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: tech appeal in terms of, oh, this is electronic, this 380 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: is like a cool gadget. You don't see that being 381 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: marketed to women so much, because because, of course, why 382 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: would women be interested in gadgets? Am I right? Ladies? 383 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: And Stanford points out that women are featured prominently in 384 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: pretty much all the cigarette advertising to appeal both to 385 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: women and men alike. So if it's meant to appeal 386 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: to men, obviously you have sexy babes and like, hey, 387 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: you could have me if only you were smoking a 388 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: coolie cigarette. And for ladies it's more like, hey, don't 389 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: you want to look like me? I'm smoking to be 390 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: sick ratte, I'm free. But of course there are so 391 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: many more marketing techtics that we haven't talked to, namely 392 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: the whole pinkwashing of vaping and East cigarettes in particular, 393 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: so much like as Krista mentioned, Virginia Slims and their 394 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: whole lengthening and slimming of the cigarette itself and their 395 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: tagline You've come a long way, baby. Now we see 396 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: sexy looking, thin pink pastel the cigarettes that are geared 397 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: specifically to women, and that's not to say that women 398 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't have the option of having pink things. I mean, 399 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: who cares. That's great, you like pink, that's wonderful. However, 400 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: it is using feminization specifically to sell a product. Yeah, 401 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: and if you even just look at the brand names 402 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: of these cigarettes that are being marketed to women, it 403 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: is all I mean, it's very pink. But it also 404 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: uses lots of words such as culture goddess, vamp, vogue lady, 405 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: and vapor girl. And then of course there's the terribly 406 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: named nutrisig, which this should it nothing should ever be 407 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: named that ever, never, ever, because it's made worse by 408 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: the fact that their taglines eat less and satisfy your craving. 409 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: So it's it's a twenty one century version of Lucky strike. Yeah, 410 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: reach for a lucky instead of a sweet. And their 411 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: ads just show a lot of times show a woman 412 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: in a bikini lounging on the beach but probably hasn't 413 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: eaten in days because she's just puffing on ant sig. 414 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: And so it's to say, hey, don't you want to 415 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: look like her? No, I mean, you should never market 416 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: like non food things. And this is not even a 417 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: comment on nicotine. This is not a comment on cigarettes 418 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: or whatever, but you should not market non food items 419 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: or food replacement things as neutra anything. But I'll get 420 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: off my soapbox and pack that away now knows. I 421 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: mean it's an important soapbox because it's yeah, I mean 422 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: it's it's it's definitely it's definitely not an altruistic motive 423 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: of We'll put it that way. Um. There's also vape Goddess, 424 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: and vape Goddess comes in all sorts of flavors, such 425 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: as Fierce, which is tangerine, mental Ambrosia which is raspberry 426 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: citrus cream, guilty pleasure ladies who could resist it's cookies 427 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: and milk, and then Lotus which is honeysuckle green tea. 428 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: And I feel like my guilty pleasure flavor would takes 429 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: like a grilled cheese with bacon. Yeah, my guilty. My 430 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: guilty pleasure would be pizza rolls. Um, has anyone vaped 431 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: up pizza role eat juice? I bet that exists. We 432 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: have so many questions. We do have a lot of questions. 433 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: But on top of this, some companies are even offering 434 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: fashion accessories to go along with your eat cigarettes, including handbags, lanyards, 435 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: and even sneakers. And this reminds me of there's this 436 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: car and I'm forgetting the model name right now, that 437 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: was made in the fifties specifically for women, and it 438 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: was pink. Naturally. The second Mile came in lavender, and 439 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: it came with handbags, gloves and ellipstick case, all of these, 440 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: all of these little accessories. Well, it's all a woman 441 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: could ever want in life. Yeah, you're Eastig sneakers. Um. 442 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: But what's also fascinating too or how some of these 443 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: companies are also engaging in very ladies centric corporate responsibility 444 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: in quotes, initiatives such as South Beach Smoke as well 445 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: as ever Smoke donating funds for breast cancer awareness. Yes, 446 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: very easy when you're selling a pink product to tie 447 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: it in with the whole breast cancer Awareness month and 448 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: advertising for breast cancer awareness donations, which and of itself 449 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: is not a bad thing. Again, we're just talking about, 450 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: you know, advertising awareness. Yeah, and that does tie into 451 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: to this pinkwashing conversation. Um. But my favorite brand of 452 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: all the caroline was Catti in which brands itself as 453 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: the most feminine electronic cigarette in the world. That is 454 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: a direct quote ladies and gentlemen, and it has an 455 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: artistic rendition of a fashion model on each device. And 456 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,239 Speaker 1: we went to the website because I had to just 457 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: see what this looked like. And it there's a section 458 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: where you could sign up for a newsletter, and I 459 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: think they even called it a lady newsletter. That's the 460 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: extent of their um, their their lady intense marketing. So 461 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's for us. If you were ever 462 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: I've ever thought that maybe the cigarettes were not for women, 463 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: well you were wrong. I feel like this is exactly 464 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: like the whole Bick Pen the Pen for Her controversy, 465 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: where they got the hysterical Amazon reviews like oh thank god, 466 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: I can finally write because I have a pen that's 467 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: just for me. That's for me. But it was interesting 468 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: too though, that Enjoy that's in j O y. Enjoy 469 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: King's e cigarettes were an official sponsor of the New 470 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: York Fashion Week, so this is another way clearly targeting 471 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: a female audience. And this was reported on in Cosmopolitan 472 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: and they quoted a rep saying they're targeting adult committed smokers. 473 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: And since a lot of models, hairstylists and others backstage 474 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: and fashion people alike smoke. We wanted to bring them 475 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: a less abrasive option. And I know that Mercedes is 476 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: often a fashion week sponsor. I could not imagine though 477 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: someone like Moral Bro fashion we brought to you by 478 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: Marl Brow ever happening. But because I think of this 479 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: perception of it being that healthier option, enjoy kind of 480 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: slips in that way. So and then if we turned 481 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: to Maria Irvin, who is the founder of vaping Vamp, 482 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: she was writing in Vape magazine about how women like 483 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: herself and a lot of other women out there, She asserts, 484 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: feel out of place in smoke shops. You know that 485 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: how environments like a head shop with you know, bearded 486 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: guys with dreadlocks, you know, looking at you weird because 487 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: you're a lady who walked in the door. Yeah, and listen, Caroline, 488 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: and I hold nothing against beards or dreadlocks at all. 489 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: This was more like in her description. And I will say, like, 490 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: there have been a number of vaping shops that have 491 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: popped up around Atlanta, maybe just in my neighborhood and 492 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: maybe I'm in a hot spot for vaping um and 493 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: they do often look very much like head shops. I 494 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: have not been into one personally. UM, But I could 495 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: understand when I was reading this post by her, it 496 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: made sense of like, oh yeah, okay, well that that 497 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: would that does seem like, um, the kind of atmosphere 498 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: you would encounter. Um. And she says quote e cigarettes 499 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: are perfect for women's social smokers who want to look chic, 500 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: elegant and trendy, which is kind of ironic because she 501 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: started this to help her daughter quit smoking. UM. So 502 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, I guess it's again lesser of two evils. Um. 503 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: And when Jezebel reported on this, of course, they also 504 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: had a very skeptical eyebrow raised to the whole pink 505 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: washing factor, but they did say, you know, the sentiment 506 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: behind vaping vamps is admirable. It's the first independent e 507 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: cigarette company targeted specifically to women, and it's run by 508 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: a woman, and it donates parts of this proceeds to 509 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: Dress for Success, a nonprofit organization that helps financially struggling 510 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: women acquire professional attire for job interviews. So yeah, lady entrepreneurs, 511 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: we totally support that. But like you said, Caroline, I 512 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: think it's always wise to take a closer look at 513 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: that kind of marketing. And um, the jez Belle piece 514 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: was not surprisingly too very snarky as well, and there 515 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: were a lot of comments on that post from women 516 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: who vape and enjoy vaping who are like, we hate this, 517 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: these kinds of products, these hyper pink products, because that's 518 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: not we use at all. And especially if you, if 519 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: you're a true blue vaping connoisseur, you would never use 520 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: one of those eas cigarettes that looks like cigarettes. It's 521 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: more about hacking these hacking these gadgets in order to 522 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, amplify the voltage the way that you wanted to, um, 523 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: get the kinds of flavors that you want, all of 524 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: that stuff. So there is this whole subculture developing around 525 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: it too, all right, That's exactly what so many of 526 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: those commenters also pointed out, is that there is this 527 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: whole vaping community and a lot of skeptical people. Fellow 528 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: commenters were like, vaping community. That's the silliest thing I've 529 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: ever heard. But I mean, you know, if there's something 530 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: that exists in the world, there is an online community 531 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 1: for it, And so a lot of people end up 532 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: trading secrets, tips, tricks, ways to sort of uh build 533 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: your own construct your own vaping East cigarette device, ways 534 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: to make your own juice, how to buy it, where 535 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: to buy it, um trading information about health information, uh, 536 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: safety tips, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, and there apparently, 537 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: or at least anecdotally, there are lots of women in 538 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: on it, although I will say that the biggest trend 539 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: pieces that I saw in Mashable, The Verge and also 540 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: really end up piece on Yahoo News as well, focus 541 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: mostly on guys who are doing these hacks and and mods. 542 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: But um, I know that there are women doing this 543 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: as well, So I mean that is kind of it 544 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: gets into the d i y culture. It gets into 545 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: the whole maker culture as well. I feel like that 546 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: those ven diagrams definitely intersect, and so it would make 547 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: sense that if you are more about like doing this 548 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: because it's a you know, your homebrewing and your hacking 549 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: and you're really making this thing and you're probably building 550 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: friendships around it too, I'm sure this kind of hyper feminine, 551 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: pinkwashed market would make you want to pull your hair 552 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: out as well. Yeah, And of course, at the same time, 553 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: there are plenty of people out there who welcome the 554 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: opportunity to purchase a pink East cigarette, you know, uh, 555 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: there was some comments somewhere where a woman was like, 556 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: I have a pink laptop and I wear pink all 557 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 1: the time, and so the fact that now I can 558 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: purchase a pink East cigarette, it's just perfect for me. 559 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: And so yeah, there's something out there for everybody. Yeah, 560 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: I mean, like note about avoiding famphobia as well. Pink 561 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: is not the enemy. It's more harping on these age 562 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: old things of like the Nutrius gigg. I feel like 563 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: that really embodies the whole thing of trying to sell 564 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: women more of this idea and this image that is 565 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: ultimately harmful for us, rather than harping on a color. 566 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: But before we close out, we do need to make 567 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: one mention about its health effects with women, because one 568 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: of the most commonly asked questions of the Internet when 569 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: it obviously e cigarettes is whether it's safe for pregnant women, Because, um, 570 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure if that's I mean just a general question 571 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: people have, but if you are a smoker and you 572 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: get pregnant and you know obviously you know you're not 573 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: supposed to smoke, I mean, it is a natural question 574 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: to ask, like, well, these things are supposed to be healthier, 575 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: could I vape instead. Yeah. I mean, there was a 576 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: study this year that looked into the perceptions about the 577 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: safety of vaping, and a lot of people assumed in 578 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: the survey that vaping was definitely safer than smoking cigarettes, 579 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: and therefore it was okay to vape during pregnancy. And so, well, yes, 580 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: we've established that vaping is probably a healthier alternative to 581 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette. The fact is it can as any 582 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: cigarette can contain nicotine. And so if you are of 583 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: the opinion or the thought at vaping is safer than smoking, 584 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: then maybe you're more likely to do it well pregnant, 585 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: introducing nicotine to the fetus, whereas if you know cigarette 586 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: smoking during pregnancy is bad, you wouldn't be introducing nicotine 587 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: to the fetus. Yeah, and unfortunately the study didn't dig 588 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: specifically into the actual safety of it during pregnancy, but 589 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: the authors explicitly stated that introducing nicotine into your system 590 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: can be harmful or fetus is even at very low levels. 591 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 1: But as the FDA starts to figure out how it's 592 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: going to regulate this industry that's right now somewhat grassroots, 593 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: although big names are definitely getting in the mix. Um 594 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: I will be curious to see whether you'll have similar 595 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: kinds of Surgeon General warnings on the juice packages. Yeah, 596 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: and then issues of taxation and stuff like that will follow, 597 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure yeah, and age restrictions. Um. So with this, 598 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: lady vapors, are you out there? Hello, I'm sure they're 599 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: out there, and I'm sure that they have a lot 600 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: to tell us about the community aspect of it, the 601 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: d I y aspect of it. And do you feel 602 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: like it is a sort of broy culture that you 603 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: have to break into almost or do you feel like 604 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: it's totally egalitarian and welcoming. Yeah? And why if you 605 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 1: if you do smoke any cigarette, why do you do it? 606 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: I mean, because obviously there's so many possible reasons. We 607 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts. Mom Stuff at how stuff 608 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: works dot com is our email address. You can also 609 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. 610 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with 611 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: you right now. We've got a couple of letters to 612 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: read here about our episode on vegetarianism, and this one 613 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: comes from Nicole and she writes as a vegetarian and 614 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: math teacher, I especially enjoyed learning about Pythagoras and may 615 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 1: start saying I'm following up baggarree and diet. I'm a 616 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: vegetarian for ethical and health reasons. I know I could 617 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: never kill an animal, and I don't feel comfortable outsourcing 618 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: that task. I also don't approve of how livestock is 619 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 1: treated and how many of our world's resources go into 620 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: meat production instead of meeting basic food needs globally. Additionally, 621 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: I find it to be healthier and a cheaper way 622 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: to live. I've not really gotten much flak about it. 623 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,800 Speaker 1: Even when I started back in two thousand one, I 624 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: mainly met with an incredulous what do you eat? I 625 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 1: find this amusing, as I just eat regular foods like 626 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: most people. Spaghetti, pizza, eggs, salads, cast roles, sandwiches, soups, Caroline, 627 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: I'm hungry now. Funny story, though, I was making dinner 628 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: for my friend's family and decided to make strong enough 629 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: with tofu instead of beef. Their son, in his late 630 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: twenties at the time, was asleep while I cooked and 631 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: we ate. As he was enjoying his serving, he looked 632 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: over at me and said, this is really good. What 633 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: did you put in yours? He had no idea. He 634 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: was eating a vegetarian version clearly flavor trumps the act 635 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,399 Speaker 1: toal ingredients. Thank you for a wonderful episode. I learned 636 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: tons and I'm glad to know I'm part of an 637 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: age old tradition. So thanks Nicole and Nicole you must 638 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: be an impressive vegetarian chef for making that shagen off. Okay, 639 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Brittany that is addressed 640 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: to C Squared. Hello, I like that. I like that too. Okay, so, 641 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: she says, I've been listening to Cementty for over a 642 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: year now after my best friend turned me onto it. 643 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: Your podcast has been one of the ways we stay 644 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: in touch despite living thousands of miles away. There's been 645 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: so many great episodes recently that I wanted to commend 646 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: you on, but the vegetarian gender episode finally prompted me 647 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: to write. All right, Brittany says, having been a loyal 648 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 1: vegetarian for nearly twenty years, I wasn't expecting to learn 649 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: a whole lot of new information from the episode. I've 650 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: done a fair amount of research on my own and 651 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: try to stay current on dietary trends and whatnot. However, 652 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: the link you discussed between vegetarianism and disordered eating was 653 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: not something I had any prior knowledge about. I found 654 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: this to be particularly intriguing as I adopted my vegetari 655 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: areanism at a young age. When I was hospitalized for anorexia, 656 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: after months of severe restriction, I began to eat again, 657 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: but opted to cut out all meat, poultry, fish, and eggs. 658 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: While my eating disorder has gone through periods of remission 659 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: over the last twenty years, I have not wavered on 660 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: my vegetarian diet. At no point during my various hospitalizations, 661 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: medical appointments, or nutritional counseling did anyone propose a connection 662 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: between my eating disorder and my vegetarian lifestyle. Not once. 663 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: Most recently, I entered what is considered one of the 664 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: top eating disorder treatment programs in the nation. While it 665 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: seemed unusual to me that a solid se of the 666 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: women in the program were also vegetarian, I did not 667 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: place much importance on the matter. Perhaps living in a 668 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: more vegetarian friendly state and having close friends and family 669 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: who were also vegetarian made me a little naive, but 670 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: I'm still shocked there was no mention made of the 671 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: link between vegetarianism and eating disorders. Well, I suspect that 672 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,280 Speaker 1: I may have become a vegetarian eventually for ethical, environmental 673 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: and health reasons. In hindsight, my decision to make that 674 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: transition upon entering treatment at a young age, it was 675 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: likely driven by the desire to control what was going 676 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: into my body. Duh. I'm confident I will maintain my 677 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: vegetarian diet for the remainder of my life, but I'm 678 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: hopeful that my disordered eating will not be a constant 679 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: force in my daily life. Thank you for furthering my 680 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: knowledge and understanding about the relationship between the two. Well done, ladies, 681 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: Well done, Thank you, Brittany, and thanks to everybody who's 682 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 1: written into us. Mom. Stuff at how stuff works dot 683 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: com is our email address and through links to all 684 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos, 685 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: and podcast with this one and with links to that 686 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: Stanford site where you can see all of those different 687 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: kinds of lady eat cigarettes. Head on over to stuff 688 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for moralness and thousands 689 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com