1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heard podcast, 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: and I'm annea Bloomberg Senior Crypto editor in today for 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Stacy Marie Ishmael. It's Tuesday, October eighteenth. Bankruptcies can be 4 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: chaotic times for companies and for their creditors. Investors, vendors, 5 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: and former customers often end up jostling in court to 6 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: get their share of what they lost from what remains 7 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 1: of the firm. In the crypto space, bankruptcies can bring 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: even more questions. Some restructuring lawyers say that the US 9 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: Bankruptcy Code still does not adequately address how to handle 10 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: crypto assets. But just like other bankruptcy cases, there will 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: be winners and losers to explain what happens to crypto 12 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: assets during these times. I'm joined by bloom reporter Justina Lee. Crypto, 13 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: as we all know, is a lot more volatile than 14 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: most assets that the law typically applies to, and Thomas Brazil, 15 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: the founder of five oh seven Capital. There will be 16 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: definitely more dominoes to fall in the crypto space and 17 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: filings questions like how these firms will deal with it 18 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: the firm by bankruptcy claims and other types of distressed 19 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: assets from people who would rather receive funds earlier, even 20 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: at a discount. Hi, Justina and Thomas, thank you for 21 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: joining me today. Why did you reach out to Thomas 22 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: at first for your story? What's what's going on in crypto? Um? 23 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: There seemed to have been a lot of bankruptcies as 24 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: of late. Yeah, exactly, and uh a crypto fund manager 25 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: introduced me to Thomas, saying that there would be a 26 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: cool story, and he was right. I mean, bankruptcy last 27 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: sounds dry. With this first wave of crypto bankruptcies hitting 28 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: US courts, it was really interesting to see, you know, 29 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: judges and lawyers trying to draw parallels between the existing 30 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: laws and this weird new thing called crypto. And I 31 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: thought that Thomas was a really good character to tell 32 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: that story because he wasn't your typical hedge fund manager 33 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: in the sense that he doesn't really have a PR filter, 34 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: which is always helpful for journalists, and he seems to 35 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: only like look into the most niche cases and distressed investing. 36 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: You know, my parents were bankruptcy lawyers, so I knew 37 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: a lot about bankruptcy law. I never really worked a 38 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: big distress firm, but I knew enough to sort of 39 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: be dangerous and was always hunting around, like just insolving 40 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: seas and bankruptcies. Crypto is probably the most interesting because 41 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: there's so much unsettled law. I guess I've sort of 42 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: gotten fully sucked into the crypto rabbit hole, but there's 43 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: still a lot to come. I mean with the bankruptcies 44 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: we've seen in sort of the c FI institution, and 45 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: so you have like Celsius and Voyager, and then you 46 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: see Compute North recently filing, there's likely to be a 47 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: whole wave of minors that file, and the same probably 48 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: with other areas, uh, the whatever you want to call it, 49 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: the I don't know, picks and shovels, whatever, like crypto, 50 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: A t M companies, you name it. There's likely to 51 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: be more insolvencies. Even if they're not in court, they'll 52 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: be out of court. Can we take a step back, 53 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: Can you tell us just run us through how you 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: started with Mount Cox and what what you actually did there, 55 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: because many of our listeners might not really know what 56 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: you what you actually do. They might know distress investor 57 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: or what's that? Yeah, what is that? The cryptocurrency community 58 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: is watching the drama unraveled with mount Cox, as the 59 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: once dominant bitcoin exchange files for bankruptcy in Japan. Mount 60 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: Cox is now being sued in the United States by 61 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: one of its tin I'd run across mount Cox literally 62 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: read an article in the FT about the insolvency and 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: it's said in there that you know, some hedge funds 64 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: are you know, punting on the on these claims. And 65 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: I was like, I know a lot of the guys 66 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: that do this stuff. It's not rocket science, and how 67 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: cool would that be Japanese cryptocurrency bankruptcy claim? I mean, 68 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: that's like the highest inversion of buying a bankruptcy claim. 69 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: So that I got sucked into it, I guess the 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: sort of the the academic view of like, hey, this 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: will be interesting or fun to do. And then as 72 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: I did that, I just started accumulating more claims, you know, 73 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,119 Speaker 1: for my clients. And from there I just got sucked 74 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: into the crypto rabbit hole. And then the legal questions 75 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: started coming up, you know, like how is this going 76 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: to be interpreted? In Malcox? So we just basically bought claims, 77 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: you bought customer account claims, so you have to go 78 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: actually find people who were either yeah, and also so 79 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: sourcing is just like we were doing a journalist. How 80 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: do you find a good story, how do you find 81 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: a good lead? How do you find someone that knows 82 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: about whatever you're working on. It's the art, you know, 83 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you find this guy who told you 84 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: about this person that told you about that person, and 85 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: this is like whatever the tin signal or gay that's 86 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: going to take you to the mountain top of your 87 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: story or whatever. So originally just started reaching out trying 88 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: to find people that were in the crypto and Mike 89 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: likely had to claim. So there was a leaked list 90 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: of creditors and it just had names, didn't have anything 91 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: really had amounts and names, and so you know literally 92 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: googling around like this guy's name is decently obscure and 93 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: he's into crypto or he's a computer science person. So yeah, 94 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: the early malc Cox you had sort of two profiles. 95 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: If you're going to profile there would be kind of 96 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: like crypto anarchists, like people that were very into like 97 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: alternative cultures, sometimes maybe illicit activity, and then you had 98 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: the other camp or just like people that were just 99 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: like computer nerds. The mot coxing is coming to a close, right, 100 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: So what are your expectations, and we had some crazy 101 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: eye catching percentage of returns in the in the headline 102 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: of the story, I think, so, what is your estimation 103 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: of when when are you expecting it to sort of 104 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: aiming to get paid back for the claims and then 105 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: maybe just see I can give us the the number 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: of the returns. Yeah, sure, sure, okay, So so early investors, 107 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, our early investors did the sort of put 108 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: the trade on with us extremely well. And um, I 109 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: would say, mal Cox, there's gonna be like two or 110 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: three waves of distributions. One is like an early payout option, 111 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: and the second is a final payout option. So if 112 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: you did an early pay out option, you're capped a 113 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: little bit on the return you'll get. You're giving up 114 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: like a few percentage points to get your money early. 115 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: That will be probably early, and then the final payments 116 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: could be at the end of or maybe under. And 117 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: the other thing you think about distributions are some of 118 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: the distributions are going to go to I don't want 119 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: to call him captive sellers, but like Big Corner of 120 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: which is the biggest state going on in New Zealand, 121 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: they had all their coins on mac Cox and there 122 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: there a number of people like that that are big 123 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: whales that likely won't sell, So I don't know the 124 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: distribution is gonna be totally. I keep hearing this idea that, oh, 125 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: people always call me and say, oh, when is it happening, 126 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: Give me the breakdown of like how it's going to 127 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: affect the price of bitcoin, And I'm always like, I 128 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: really don't think it'll have as much effects people think, 129 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: because so much of the coins anybody that wanted to 130 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: sell sold over the years, not just ourselves but but Fortress. 131 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: So the two big buyers have claims ourselves and Fortress 132 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: over the years. So Thomas probably doesn't want to give 133 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: the percentage himself, but like, at least I think in 134 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: terms of the first sort of slate of claims that 135 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: he bought, I mean, he is kind of slated to 136 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: make like one tho seven on those and I guess 137 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: that's because in the nature of distress investing, you're buying 138 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: those claims at a discount to begin with, and it 139 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: so happens after the winding path that that case has 140 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: taken that at the end of the day, the users 141 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: will end up getting some upside from all that bit 142 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: Court appreciation over the years. Some of the issues or 143 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: questions that people had with Montox. One of the biggest 144 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: ones is will people get their money back UM or 145 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: will they get their crypto back? Right? So, Justina, can 146 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: you sort of walk us through and how that I 147 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: guess applies now to with Celsius and Voyager and some 148 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: of them you are, yeah. So, in most cases UM, 149 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: the value of the user's claim is fixed in dollar 150 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: terms at the moment of their petition. But it's kind 151 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: of controversial to just directly apply this to crypto because crypto, 152 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: as we all know, is a lot more volatile than 153 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: most assets that the law typically applies to. And one 154 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: interesting thing is, at least when I was speaking to 155 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: some of the Celsius users UM, it might seem surprising, 156 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: but many of them are still crypto believers, and in 157 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: their ideal world, they actually want their coins back, and 158 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: so this is really a huge unknown in these cases UM. 159 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: And one lawyer has told me that if the users 160 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: are able to make the claim that crypto is in 161 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: fact more like securities or commodities, there's a chance that 162 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: they could actually get their claims kind of valued at 163 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: the time of UM liquidation. But of course, as we 164 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: all know, that's sort of the big unknown, even beyond 165 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: bankrupt see law when it comes to crypto. We'll be 166 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: right back with more from Bloomberg reporter Justina Lee and 167 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: bankruptcy investor Thomas Brazil. What's different between working on a 168 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: crypto bankruptcy and another one? Uh? Gosh, is it more 169 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: fun or no? It's more interesting. It's more interesting. That's 170 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: it interesting because it is again a ton of unsettled 171 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: case law how crypto is treated. We talked about petition date, 172 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: value versus uplift. Who gets the uplift and value? You know, 173 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: what's unregistered security? Are these securities? Which one? Are securities 174 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: which one or not? You know, all kind of things 175 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: like even areas of traditional bankruptcy law which is called 176 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: their avoidance actions. One section is preferences, another's fraudulent conveyances 177 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: or transfers. I'll do the quick idea of a prefer 178 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: and says, if you've got a payment within ninety days 179 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: of prepetition, just before the bankruptcy petition, uh, they can 180 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: basically call that back. And the idea is like you 181 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: got a hundred cents in the dollar and in the 182 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: bankruptcy it's only fifty cents in the dollar recovery, so 183 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: it's not fair to everybody. So we call that back, 184 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: we give you a claim, and you get the fifty 185 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,479 Speaker 1: cents that everybody else got, and that increases predator recoveries. 186 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: In a traditional bankruptcy, it's not boring, but it's quite 187 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: straightforward the way you'd handle it. But in crypto even 188 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: think of the idea like, well, when the transfer happened, 189 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm making it up, but ethereum was 190 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: a sev now in set of thousand, so my preference 191 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: is much higher dollar amount than what I even have 192 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: today to pay back. So it's a very interesting question, 193 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: like is that equitable, Like that's kind of what the 194 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,479 Speaker 1: code says. It says at the time of the transfer, 195 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: so you should be going after like the hundred you know, 196 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: ethereum times the price at the time of the transfer. 197 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: So these are all interesting bankruptcy questions that need to 198 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: be wrestled with, and I'm hopeful that the US Bankruptcy 199 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: Code can also push a lot of case law in 200 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: at least of the federal court system. I mean, the 201 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: opinion is they're not gonna use for everything, but federal 202 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: bankruptcy judges are extremely usually the top of their fields 203 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: or lawyers in their in their regions, and so do 204 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: you interesting to see how they wrestle some of these 205 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: so something as simple as their preference and crypto has 206 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: never been dealt with. How do you actually, you know, 207 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: deal with the amounts and how do you deal with offsets? 208 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: Because you do normally get offsets on those, So if 209 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: you have money you're still owed versus money you took off, 210 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: they can offset that claim. Well, in this instance, you 211 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: can potentially do offsets, but it's indebtedness, but it's it's 212 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: your customer, it's an account claim. And also like in 213 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: terms of crypto, like these Sea Fine institutions are great example. 214 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: These are kind of like unregulated banks, which would usually 215 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: be like a sipahi just simple liquidation that would be 216 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: and they have insurance and things, and so these are 217 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: very interesting questions we haven't really grappled with, and so 218 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: they're they're super interesting from a legal standpoint. If you're 219 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: let's start like a legal nerd, you're like, wow, this 220 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: is like, you know, super interesting, and um, have you 221 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: have you come across and f T s yet? In 222 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: in liquidations or bankruptcy because I think, you know, not 223 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: one big fund is being a really good well yeah, 224 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: three a C right, so they owned n f T s. 225 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: I think that there was some news recently about some 226 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: of the n f T s day and I wonder 227 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: if the issues will be the same, like how to 228 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: value of those that will be interesting. I mean, honestly, 229 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: this is there's a lot of stuff that has been 230 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: grappled with. There's always interesting stuff going on in the 231 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: bankruptcy and stressed. Uh, this is no different. This is 232 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: just on steroids like every single traditional bankruptcy thing you think, 233 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: you think, oh well, actually there's a new wrinkle. And 234 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: I don't know in three season. I mean, I just 235 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: gotta call the other day about a very large three 236 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: C claim. So I'm probably learning more about it soon. 237 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: But it's it's funny to watch the domino's drop. There's 238 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: so much liquidity that came out of the system so fast. 239 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means for like the price 240 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: of anything, but it is kind of interesting to think about. 241 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: There will be definitely more dominoes to fall in the 242 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: crypto space and filings. Questions like how these firms will 243 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: deal with it. I think in a lot of spaces 244 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 1: that will be even some pre packs and things like that, 245 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: prepack bankruptcies because they have a lot of secure lenders 246 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: in there. They're basically underwater on their loans and they're 247 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: not you know, they don't want to tell the street 248 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: they're underwater, and you know they'll be some out of court, 249 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: but they'll definitely have to be some more filings. It 250 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: in a weird way. Every filing there's automatic stay and 251 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: it's sort of like pulls supply offline. I mean, think 252 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: about it like Selsie's Voyager. When they file, they can 253 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: automatic day. So instead of the crypto basically like you know, 254 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: flooding out into the market and lots of sales, is 255 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: actually locks up the crypto for the time of case. 256 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 1: I mean, not entirely. They can petition the court to 257 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: sell certain cryptos, but it's kind of interesting. An impact 258 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: on price too, Yeah, that's what I mean. The impact 259 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: on price could be interesting. Thank you, just Tina and 260 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: Thomas for joining me today. You can find more of 261 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: just Tina Lee's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal on Bloomberg 262 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: dot com and on Twitter at j U S t 263 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: I n A k n O p e. On the 264 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: next episode of Bloomberg Crypto, there's an old joke about 265 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: billionaires and politics, but this isn't that kind of podcast. 266 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: This is a podcast about crypto though, so we're gonna 267 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: be talking about all of the ways that crypto billions 268 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: are pouring into US elections. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a 269 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more 270 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: shows from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 271 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Send us 272 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show to Crypto 273 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net or find us on Twitter. We're 274 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky 275 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: very Galina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producer 276 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: is Mohammed Farouk. Associate producer is Moses on Them Desta 277 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidran. 278 00:14:46,960 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: I'm Stacy Marie Shmall. We'll be back tomorrow.