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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Daron, welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's me Tom Berducci and of course Joe med Joe,

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Speaker 1: are you okay if we talked about the National League East,

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Speaker 1: because you got to help me out on what's going

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Speaker 1: on in the NL East.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been, We've all been following it. Of course,

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Speaker 2: it is kind of crazy. Yes, I'm happy to talk

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Speaker 2: about that. I mean, I have a Mets theory kind

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Speaker 2: of but overall, yeah, it's kind of nuts good.

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Speaker 1: We need to sip through a lot of it. Let's

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Speaker 1: start with the Phillies. Okay. They made an interesting sign

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Speaker 1: with Adolis Garcia, a guy who's non tendered by the

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Speaker 1: Texas Rangers, which really spells the end of days for

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Speaker 1: Nick Castillanos in Philadelphia. He's looking at some kind of

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Speaker 1: trade release, you name it, but there's no room there

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Speaker 1: to me anyway at Philadelphia outfield. Garcia is an interesting case, Joe.

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Speaker 1: When you look at a guy who's thirty three years old,

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Speaker 1: had a huge year in their World championship season a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago, but in the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: this dude has not been able to catch up to velocity.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty three, he had seven home runs and

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Speaker 1: it slugged four to sixty five against Elite Velocity ninety

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Speaker 1: five and above. That's creator the last couple of years.

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Speaker 1: Lugged down to three twenty one in twenty four, and

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Speaker 1: then last year only one home run off Elite Velocity

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Speaker 1: and slugging three hundred. So I don't know how you

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Speaker 1: look at this, Joe. If you come with a veteran

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Speaker 1: joined your club, he's thirty three years old, you see

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Speaker 1: the decline in the last couple of years. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's always a tendency to say, hey, we can fix

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Speaker 1: this guy. We know that his defense is really good.

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Speaker 1: That's an upgrade there, certainly on Castianos, one of the

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Speaker 1: best throwing arms plus defender I think in right field.

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Speaker 1: But what's your take on acquiring a guy like this

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Speaker 1: who's had trouble and you're wondering at his age, whether

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Speaker 1: you know at this time it's going to continue to

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Speaker 1: be trouble or you can fix them with a guy

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Speaker 1: like Kevin Long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think they put a lot of

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Speaker 3: faith in Kevin.

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Speaker 2: My first thought would be, just how has he been

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Speaker 2: pitched to, and what have they been telling him?

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Speaker 3: I want to go there first.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was still managing when he was there

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Speaker 2: with the Rangers, and God, the guy was, you know,

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Speaker 2: so strong, he'd mishit balls.

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Speaker 3: That that would go out.

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Speaker 2: You're right, he's I think he's an above average outfielder,

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Speaker 2: and the army is strong and accurate. My point is analytically,

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Speaker 2: how he had been pitched to and what was the

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Speaker 2: game plan? In other words, when he was hitting the fastball?

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Speaker 2: Did they start throwing a lot of breaking balls? And

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden he gets off the fastball, sits soft,

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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden here comes back to the

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Speaker 2: to the fastball. And I've lost something. I've lost my mindset,

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Speaker 2: my ability to fire on the fastball. I'm a little

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Speaker 2: bit late. I'm not seeing it as well.

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Speaker 1: Whatever, Well, I can tell you, Joe, to answer your question,

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Speaker 1: it's been a ton of fastballs. I mean they're not

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Speaker 1: getting them out with breaking pitches. I mean only Mike

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Speaker 1: Trout saw a higher percentage of ninety five plus fastballs

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Speaker 1: and did Garcia. And you know what, Mike, it's all

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Speaker 1: about getting that fastball above his hands. Right with Garcia

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Speaker 1: is just you know, beat him with velocity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, once you that's it.

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Speaker 2: Though, once you've established that from a scouting perspective and

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Speaker 2: that you know that and you know, I saw it

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Speaker 2: with Mike also Trout, it makes it relatively easier, if

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Speaker 2: that makes sense for me, A major ly hitter has

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Speaker 2: got to be able to hit a fastball otherwise there's

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Speaker 2: no sense in even worrying about doing all these other things.

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Speaker 2: But I'm just curious if in fact they see something

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Speaker 2: as an issue like you're saying, Kevin is so good

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Speaker 2: at it. It is I think a classic example of

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Speaker 2: you know, we could fix him.

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Speaker 3: I think that's part of the conclusion.

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Speaker 2: Although they have somebody that normally can't fix a lot

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Speaker 2: of people, they're liking the defense.

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Speaker 3: It's an upgrade right there.

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Speaker 2: They feel like they're probably extrapolating how many home runs

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Speaker 2: he's gonna hit with the you know, the slug's gonna

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Speaker 2: eventually look like, and how does that play regarding you

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Speaker 2: know that the defense with the offense they can they

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Speaker 2: could get from him.

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Speaker 3: So it's just got to be the Phillies cocktail.

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Speaker 2: There's something they like about him, there's something they could

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Speaker 2: fix about him, and not too long ago he was

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Speaker 2: pretty good offensive league.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, the Phillies are to me an

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Speaker 1: older team. We know that, you know, they're all in.

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Speaker 1: You know, we talk a lot and I hate this

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Speaker 1: word window about teams because teams evolve and teams like

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Speaker 1: that at the top of the market, they're not going

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Speaker 1: to take a step backward. So again, he's adding some

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Speaker 1: age there, I get it. But Castiano's just, you know,

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Speaker 1: again he's a guy who never really learned much played discipline,

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Speaker 1: and you know, didn't do himself any favors when he

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Speaker 1: essentially called out as manager last year Rob Thompson when

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Speaker 1: he questioned how well Rob Thompson communicated to players. Now,

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Speaker 1: it was an awkward time because they picked up Harris

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Speaker 1: and Bader, and you know, Joe's a manager. You get

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Speaker 1: a guy and you ride the hot hand. And Bader

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Speaker 1: played really well, more specifically, hit really well, took a

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Speaker 1: bats away from Castianos. So you know, you could see

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Speaker 1: this one coming, not that it was going to be Garcia,

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Speaker 1: but that the reduced playing time, if not roster spot

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Speaker 1: for Castianos was in jeopardy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, once Nicky did kind of get I

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Speaker 2: don't know if there was attack, but there was definitely

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Speaker 2: a confrontation with Robbie. I mean that really set this

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Speaker 2: whole thing up. And to defend Robbie's position, he's got

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Speaker 2: to play the better hitter offensive player at that particular juncture.

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Speaker 3: If it's that.

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Speaker 2: Noticeable, and I right, Nicky can't get into those stretches. Man,

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Speaker 2: he starts chasing everything. When I had him with the Cubbies,

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Speaker 2: he was outstanding, and there was a period of time

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Speaker 2: there with the Affilies he was too. However, there's always

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Speaker 2: that moment in time where he's going to just start

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Speaker 2: swinging at the slider down in a way and just

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Speaker 2: start chasing out of the zone and everything kind.

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Speaker 3: Of goes south.

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Speaker 2: And if you don't have a better alternative, then of

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Speaker 2: course you just stay with it. But if you do,

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Speaker 2: it's up to the manager to make that kind of

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Speaker 2: a move. So I know Nicki well enough to understand

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Speaker 2: that he got upset. I'm sure after he thought about it,

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Speaker 2: he probably was contrite regarding what he said and maybe

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Speaker 2: how he said it. However, the damage had been done

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Speaker 2: and I'm looking at it from the perspective. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Robbie gets a contract extension and and with this particular move.

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Speaker 3: The front office is supporting him.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot going on there that I think

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Speaker 2: everybody feels as though Robbie was in the right and

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Speaker 2: Nicki was not necessarily in the right, and it's it's

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Speaker 2: resulting in this. It's not a lateral move. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this guy, like you said, the defensively, there's definitely an

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Speaker 2: uptick there. And this guy's got huge power when things

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Speaker 2: are clicking properly for him, So I I could see it.

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Speaker 2: I want to wish Nikki well and getting on his

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Speaker 2: feet somewhere and success because he and I had a

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Speaker 2: really good relationship. He's a different cat, requires a lot

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Speaker 2: of a conversation, and NICKI did. He always came up

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Speaker 2: to before the game, almost not almost every game. Every

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Speaker 2: game we had a brief exchange regarding that night. So

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Speaker 2: there's there's a lot to like about. This guy is

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Speaker 2: very intense, but I understand what the Phillies.

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Speaker 3: Are doing right here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, he's only Garcia is only two years or

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Speaker 1: moved from a thirty nine home run season and you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Kevin Long and yeah, I mean he's one of

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Speaker 1: the best in the business. Long track record. I will

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Speaker 1: remind you though we heard a lot of these same

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Speaker 1: things about Max Kepler last year joining the Phillies. I

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Speaker 1: was not a big fan of that signing. I think

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Speaker 1: he's been an overrated ballplayer. He's a guy with some skills,

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Speaker 1: but the results just haven't been there. And it was

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Speaker 1: not a good year. I mean, his adjusted ops was

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Speaker 1: eighty eight. That's far below major league hitters, so the

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Speaker 1: average major league hitter. So we'll see what happens. But

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Speaker 1: I do like this taking a flyer on a Doley

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Speaker 1: scar seat at the Rangers. People tell me they would

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Speaker 1: not be surprised if he bounces back. They didn't know

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Speaker 1: he was going to Philly. But change the scenery. Apparently

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Speaker 1: it was not a great clubhouse last year in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Could be energized playing in that ballpark for that team.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, I saw it. I saw missing this.

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Speaker 2: This guy in Anaheim Stadium Angels Stadium would just power

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Speaker 2: the ball to center at right center.

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Speaker 3: I thought he played hard.

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Speaker 2: He's really strong, My god is he's strong. He runs

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Speaker 2: pretty good too, so tools wise, he's probably a larger

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Speaker 2: toolbox than maybe Nicky had overall, and I do I

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Speaker 2: like the gamble. I mean that ballpark in Philadelphia can

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Speaker 2: be kind to him also the way the ball flies

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Speaker 2: there on both sides. So it's just it's one of

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Speaker 2: those things, don't It's all upside I think for the

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Speaker 2: Phillies based on everything that had happened with Nick and

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Speaker 2: Robbie in the recent past. So I don't know if

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Speaker 2: they really wanted to choose someone other than him. Maybe

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Speaker 2: they had somebody else in their sides just couldn't think

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Speaker 2: it was going to get done and done on the

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Speaker 2: other side, Like I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Then, you've talked about it already.

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Speaker 2: Every team has, you know, they look at these guys

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Speaker 2: and then they'll go through their analytical departments and they'll

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Speaker 2: try to narrow down what exactly do he need does

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Speaker 2: this Fela need to do Differently, we're talking physically, mechanically

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Speaker 2: in order to be back to where he had been.

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Speaker 2: And I'm certain that they said in that room and

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Speaker 2: were convinced that, yeah, we can fix this guy. So

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Speaker 2: that's that's part of it and why they're doing that.

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Speaker 3: They get a up great defensively.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about the braves now, Joe. You know,

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Speaker 1: every year I remind people of this and people seem

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Speaker 1: to just forget it that every year there's at least

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Speaker 1: one team and usually two or three that make the

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Speaker 1: playoffs coming off a losing season. And their early favorite

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Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty six season, the Atlanta Braves. To me,

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Speaker 1: you know, they won only seventy six games. I think

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Speaker 1: they've had a really good offseason, Joe, when you look

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Speaker 1: at this team, and a lot of it was injuries

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Speaker 1: to their pitchers last year, but they just resigned Hassan

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Speaker 1: Kim to play shortstop on a one year deal. I

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Speaker 1: like that signing Robert Suarez added to the bullpen after

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Speaker 1: resigning Iglesias as their closer. And as far as death goes,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't pick up better pieces coming off

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Speaker 1: the bench to Michael Yu Streemsky and Mauricio Dubon. We

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Speaker 1: know how much their everyday players play. You know, they

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Speaker 1: like to run the same lineup out there. But man,

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Speaker 1: I've been impressed with some of the pickups by the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Braids this year.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you just mentioned some really good bench

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Speaker 2: pickups and then maybe they have thought to realize we

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Speaker 2: have to rest these guys a little bit more often

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Speaker 2: and not just have them try to pleably one sixty

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Speaker 2: two guys. I know that's been their their methods for

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Speaker 2: years and it's been very, very successful, no question. However,

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Speaker 2: they may have come to terms with that when you

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Speaker 2: get bench players like this, These guys got to play

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Speaker 2: if in fact they are bench players or eventually become

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Speaker 2: more on a regular basis, but they're really good players. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I think it just all indicates maybe a little bit

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Speaker 2: different philosophy regarding how we're going to approach today. I like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I like the idea of resting guys. Would

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Speaker 2: you like to rest guys with guys that are good replacements? So,

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Speaker 2: you know, with the cubbies you're having like a Zobras

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Speaker 2: playing all over the place, it was very easy to

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Speaker 2: rest somebody when you put somebody out there like that

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Speaker 2: at a different position. So when you have when you

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Speaker 2: have a bench full of competency, it's a lot easier

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Speaker 2: for manager to go ahead and throw a different name

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Speaker 2: out there and and be on board with giving people rest.

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Speaker 2: So it all, it all makes sense to me based

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Speaker 2: on what had happened to them over the last couple

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Speaker 2: of years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and last year we should point out the they

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Speaker 1: dip below the competitive balance tax threshold. They had been

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Speaker 1: above it in twenty three and twenty four, and like

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Speaker 1: a lot of teams, they reset their tax by getting

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Speaker 1: underneath it. Didn't want to get that third straight year

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Speaker 1: to get into the higher tax brackets. So they're going

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Speaker 1: to be above it back again in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Their payroll is going from about two oh eight million

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Speaker 1: to two forty five. So I think it's money money

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Speaker 1: well spent in terms of the depth. Great point on

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Speaker 1: your part about you know, maybe resting these guys a

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Speaker 1: little bit more. I know Matt Olsen specifically never wants

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Speaker 1: to take a day off, but in general, not a

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Speaker 1: bad idea to uh, to go to that so called

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Speaker 1: load management. Now we get to the New York Mets.

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Speaker 1: You got to help me out here, Joe. I know

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Speaker 1: it's we're still I don't know if it's early in

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Speaker 1: the winter, but it's not a finished product for sure.

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Speaker 1: But you know, they signed they signed Jorge Polanco to

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Speaker 1: replace Pete Alonzo at first base. Devin Williams will be

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Speaker 1: their closer with Edwin Diaz going out to Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: and the Dodgers. Listen, you know, for Diaz, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to criticize the New York Mets because essentially the Dodgers

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Speaker 1: are too attractive a team. The Mets were right there,

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Speaker 1: same ballpark, wanted to keep the pitcher, and he just

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Speaker 1: wanted to go to the Dodgers. What are you going

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Speaker 1: to do? It was clear from last year the Mets

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Speaker 1: were not going to get into a long term deal

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Speaker 1: for Pee Alonzo and you're not going to keep the

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Speaker 1: player that way. The market was too good, especially once

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Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber signs a five year deal. You know, Schwarber

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Speaker 1: does not play defense, and he's a year or two

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Speaker 1: older than Pete Alonzo. You knew he was getting a

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Speaker 1: five year deal. Good on Baltimore to jump in. I

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Speaker 1: really liked that fit with Baltimore. Question is where do

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Speaker 1: the Mets go from here? What kind of team they have?

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Speaker 1: We just talked about the Braves. We know what the

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Speaker 1: Phillies are the National League East. You know you've got

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Speaker 1: to win ninety plus games to win that division and

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Speaker 1: the Mets don't look like that right now. And again,

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Speaker 1: we'll see how it plays out. But does this team

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Speaker 1: need another big bet, especially in the outfield, or where

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Speaker 1: do they go?

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Speaker 2: Well, they're trying to it's kind of a small market mentality.

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Speaker 2: I think I think they've had all these other guys.

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Speaker 2: You know, of course they do have Soto, and I

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Speaker 2: can't say that's small market in Lindor.

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Speaker 3: That's obviously big market.

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Speaker 2: But I read a lot about Stearns wanting to get

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Speaker 2: into run prevention a little bit more. They felt that

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Speaker 2: their defense was lacking last year. So it just seems

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Speaker 2: to me that they're getting more like a well rounded

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Speaker 2: kind of a player. They whoever this player is, he

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Speaker 2: has to read well defensively to not just like, well,

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Speaker 2: he could out hit some of his mistakes. We'd like

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Speaker 2: his offense a lot. We'll work with them on defense.

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Speaker 2: I think they've really come to terms with we're gonna

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Speaker 2: we're gonna play a better game of defense, and the

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Speaker 2: run prevention is going to be kind of like it's

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Speaker 2: going to help augment the power that we may be

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Speaker 2: lacking by not having these power hitters in the lineup.

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Speaker 3: So it just it just seems like a.

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Speaker 2: Paradigm shift regarding philosophy, you know, with Cohen there, and

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Speaker 2: of course he just got his new casino right next

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Speaker 2: to the city field. I mean, of course there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of dough going on there. But I think they're

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Speaker 2: just looking at it like, well, you know, Stearns in

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Speaker 2: Milwaukee wasn't necessarily about building through these large contracts with

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Speaker 2: big bangers, et cetera. There's bailiwick as Strong's points were

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Speaker 2: to build it through these this variety of different moving

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Speaker 2: pieces and parts, and I don't know, it kind of

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Speaker 2: looks like that to me. And then the other part

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Speaker 2: was just the clubhouse in general. I mean guys leaving there.

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Speaker 2: You know, he came in with all the Valley Who

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, with the money being spent

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Speaker 2: and all the you know, the different ways are going

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Speaker 2: about out of their way to make players comfortable. Sodo

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Speaker 2: talked about it. But then at the end of the

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Speaker 2: day when Soda in the door, if there's really anything

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Speaker 2: to that that's it almost seems like the exodus is

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Speaker 2: based on there certain things guys didn't like, and I

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Speaker 2: know what Dias did, and I know, you know again

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Speaker 2: it was a Dodgers, but I'm just curious, as there's

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Speaker 2: something more to that that's just really repelling some of

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Speaker 2: these guys. Anyway, I think the Nemo gone is a

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Speaker 2: good thing. I listened to Nemo talk a lot. I

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Speaker 2: know he's regarded in some ways, but I think him

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Speaker 2: Soto and the door it might have been too much.

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Speaker 2: So I'm curious how this all works out. But it's

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Speaker 2: like a there's some clup clubhouse.

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Speaker 3: Drama going on.

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Speaker 2: And then again, I think from Stearns's perspective, again, I

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Speaker 2: don't know anything, but it just seems like he's more

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Speaker 2: comfortable operating under these circumstances like in Milwaukee would operate

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Speaker 2: as opposed.

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Speaker 3: To the New York Mets with this huge amount of money.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, and I think there was a

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Speaker 1: little bit of that Andrew Freed and Andrew Friedman when

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Speaker 1: he first got to the Dodgers and he learned to

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Speaker 1: change Sterns as. I think you're right dead on Joe.

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Speaker 1: He wants to build his team around run prevention, so

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Speaker 1: defense is a big part of putting a team together.

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Speaker 1: I know he wants a very athletic, multi positional type

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Speaker 1: player on his roster, and he has some good young

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Speaker 1: players coming up through the system. Maybe I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: how many are ready right now, but he definitely wants

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Speaker 1: to fold those ones in. It's just an interesting fit

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Speaker 1: right now. You know, you know Simi It at second

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Speaker 1: base in his mid thirties for three years now. Lanco

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Speaker 1: at first base in his thirties with some leg issues

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Speaker 1: at you know the last few years, hit the ball

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Speaker 1: great for Seattle last year. Don't get me wrong, I

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Speaker 1: really like the player, but they're betwixt and between right

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Speaker 1: now when I look at this team. The young pitching,

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Speaker 1: you know, he does not Sterns does not want to

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Speaker 1: give any starting pitcher more than a four year contract,

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Speaker 1: which will take you out of the top of the

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Speaker 1: market when you have that kind of thinking. So listen,

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Speaker 1: we need to see this play out, you know, if

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Speaker 1: they meant make a big splash for a big bat

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Speaker 1: at Kyle Tucker, which I probably don't see happening, but

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00:16:37,398 --> 00:16:40,358
Speaker 1: market doesn't incomplete right now. But man, there's some pressure

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Speaker 1: on Sterns and the Mets to really improve this roster

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Speaker 1: because right now, to me, Joe, they don't measure up

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Speaker 1: to the phillies of the Braves.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, I've read about and heard about these

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Speaker 2: young players that they have and probably wanted to push

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Speaker 2: them through. But I just think again, Stern's his comfort zone.

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Speaker 2: He likes to put it together this way, and I

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Speaker 2: think he likes the ing and yang. He likes the

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Speaker 2: platoon advantage kind of stuff, the position flexibility that you

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Speaker 2: just mentioned.

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Speaker 3: Which I love too. I loved all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: I think it's great because we operated with the Rays

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Speaker 2: where you're not going to go out and spend a

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Speaker 2: huge amount of money on one or two guys because

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Speaker 2: we can never afford to be wrong.

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Speaker 3: Now the Mets could afford to be wrong.

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Speaker 2: That's that's something they can afford to be But I

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Speaker 2: don't know that he's convinced that that's the right way

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Speaker 2: to do things.

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Speaker 3: I think he's looked at it the last couple of.

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Speaker 2: Years and again going back to who you are, which

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Speaker 2: your DNA is all about how he arrived there and

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Speaker 2: being true to all that stuff, and he seems to

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Speaker 2: be obviously a very bright man. So I'm just saying

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Speaker 2: he's going back into his comfort zone and he's going

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Speaker 2: to build it the way he sees the right way

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Speaker 2: to build it. He's gonna he wants to build it

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Speaker 2: for uh, like you said, not necessarily a window, but

387
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Speaker 2: for a long amount of time. He's already got some

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Speaker 2: superstars there, so now maybe just get you a better

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00:17:51,038 --> 00:17:54,158
Speaker 2: supporting cast that on a daily basis we can rely

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00:17:54,198 --> 00:17:56,158
Speaker 2: on to matchup better against the other team. And we

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Speaker 2: know we put a picture out there. That's the big thing.

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Speaker 2: You have a picture. The pictures are required at twenty seven,

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Speaker 2: and we start giving up twenty eight, twenty nine, thirty outs.

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Speaker 2: And that's not just necessarily errors. That's by places you

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Speaker 2: thought you should have made that you do not, based

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Speaker 2: on maybe a lack of range throwing accuracy. The ball

397
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Speaker 2: that you know could have been out with the better

398
00:18:16,958 --> 00:18:19,798
Speaker 2: defenders is considered to hit because maybe the ball bounces

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Speaker 2: from an awkward throwing position. You know, outfielder is just

400
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Speaker 2: not getting to a particular spot. So that's a big

401
00:18:27,198 --> 00:18:30,278
Speaker 2: part of defense that doesn't get enough recognition is the

402
00:18:30,318 --> 00:18:32,838
Speaker 2: plays that should have been made that are not and

403
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Speaker 2: are not necessarily airs. And I want to believe, I

404
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Speaker 2: would believe that that's a big part of their evaluation too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're one hundred percent right, you know. I spoke

406
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Speaker 1: with David Stearns about that and the way his team

407
00:18:42,878 --> 00:18:45,358
Speaker 1: collapsed in the last couple of months of the season,

408
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Speaker 1: and he did say the biggest takeaway was that they

409
00:18:48,038 --> 00:18:51,078
Speaker 1: just did not play clean baseball. It didn't always show

410
00:18:51,158 --> 00:18:53,878
Speaker 1: up in the errors, but he thought that was the

411
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Speaker 1: undermining part that was the taste he took away from

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Speaker 1: the season that we really need to clean it up.

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Speaker 1: And don't forget, they pretty much wiped out their coaching

414
00:19:00,918 --> 00:19:03,838
Speaker 1: staff as well, so Carlos Mendoza has a different staff here.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Mets right now they're searching. They do

416
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Speaker 1: not have the kind of stability that the Phillies and

417
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Speaker 1: the Braves have, and they better find it quickly. We're

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00:19:14,078 --> 00:19:15,918
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break, Joe. When we get back.

419
00:19:16,198 --> 00:19:18,918
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the starting pitcher market. We know there

420
00:19:18,958 --> 00:19:21,358
Speaker 1: was a rush out there in free agency to build

421
00:19:21,438 --> 00:19:24,358
Speaker 1: up bullpens, and see that happen at the trade deadline

422
00:19:24,358 --> 00:19:26,558
Speaker 1: as well every year. But what about starting pictures? Who

423
00:19:26,558 --> 00:19:28,718
Speaker 1: would you take a flyer on? And I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about one of Joe's old starting pitchers who may

425
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Speaker 1: be done in the major leagues after a long career.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about all that right after this on the

427
00:19:37,158 --> 00:19:51,718
Speaker 1: Book of Joe. All right, jer let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: starting picture market free agency. And I want to start

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Speaker 1: with fran Barvaldez. This guy cannot throw a ball straight

430
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Speaker 1: right if he tried to, he couldn't. He's got so

431
00:20:00,558 --> 00:20:02,718
Speaker 1: much movement on the ball. He's a ground ball machine.

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Speaker 1: Lots of like a about him. He's been really pretty durable.

433
00:20:07,118 --> 00:20:09,358
Speaker 1: He's had ups in the postseason and man, he's had

434
00:20:09,398 --> 00:20:12,318
Speaker 1: some bad downs in the postseason. Overall, track wreck in

435
00:20:12,358 --> 00:20:14,358
Speaker 1: the postseason is not what you think it is. It's

436
00:20:14,398 --> 00:20:16,958
Speaker 1: really not that good. But I want to ask you this, Joe,

437
00:20:17,158 --> 00:20:20,558
Speaker 1: if you're the manager of a team thinking about signing

438
00:20:20,598 --> 00:20:22,918
Speaker 1: from Bravaldez, don't you have to sit down with him

439
00:20:22,918 --> 00:20:25,318
Speaker 1: and ask him about that incident last year where he

440
00:20:25,398 --> 00:20:28,358
Speaker 1: essentially threw a pitch that hit his catcher, where he

441
00:20:28,398 --> 00:20:30,518
Speaker 1: crossed them up. A lot of people thought it was intentionally.

442
00:20:31,318 --> 00:20:33,438
Speaker 1: The worst part about it, whether it was intentional or not.

443
00:20:34,078 --> 00:20:36,598
Speaker 1: After his catcher gets smoked with a fastball that he

444
00:20:36,598 --> 00:20:40,158
Speaker 1: didn't think was coming, Valdez had no concern for his catcher,

445
00:20:40,158 --> 00:20:42,358
Speaker 1: actually turned his back on it, like, go ahead and

446
00:20:42,358 --> 00:20:44,958
Speaker 1: wear it. I don't know about you, Joe, but if

447
00:20:44,998 --> 00:20:48,038
Speaker 1: I'm a GM or manager, that's the first question I got.

448
00:20:48,078 --> 00:20:50,158
Speaker 1: Well maybe not the first, but when I do sit

449
00:20:50,238 --> 00:20:52,398
Speaker 1: down with him or talk to the agent, I got

450
00:20:52,398 --> 00:20:54,118
Speaker 1: to get chapter and verse on that incident.

451
00:20:54,438 --> 00:20:56,158
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about it when that occurred, and I

452
00:20:56,158 --> 00:20:59,478
Speaker 2: absolutely believe it was intentional. I believe it's intentional, and

453
00:20:59,518 --> 00:21:01,398
Speaker 2: there's no other way you can convince me otherwise. It

454
00:21:01,518 --> 00:21:05,118
Speaker 2: just is, and especially be based on his reaction. You're right,

455
00:21:05,238 --> 00:21:09,438
Speaker 2: I mean that needs to be clarified. I don't know

456
00:21:09,678 --> 00:21:11,838
Speaker 2: if he's done it once, he's going to do it again.

457
00:21:11,718 --> 00:21:12,198
Speaker 3: Kind of thing.

458
00:21:12,238 --> 00:21:14,598
Speaker 2: Maybe not, but that's not even the point. It's just

459
00:21:14,638 --> 00:21:17,598
Speaker 2: the attitude in general. Why would you even do it

460
00:21:17,678 --> 00:21:21,958
Speaker 2: one time? There's something smoldering there. Possibly maybe you just

461
00:21:21,958 --> 00:21:23,678
Speaker 2: didn't like the guy. I don't know, I don't know

462
00:21:23,718 --> 00:21:26,638
Speaker 2: what it was all about. But yes, that's a great

463
00:21:26,718 --> 00:21:28,758
Speaker 2: question to be asked, and honestly, I think I would

464
00:21:28,918 --> 00:21:31,318
Speaker 2: have that research as well as I possibly can't, and

465
00:21:31,558 --> 00:21:33,958
Speaker 2: I'm sure they have before even.

466
00:21:33,758 --> 00:21:34,318
Speaker 3: Speaking with him.

467
00:21:34,358 --> 00:21:35,518
Speaker 2: It's one of those things you want to know the

468
00:21:35,518 --> 00:21:38,518
Speaker 2: answer before you ask the question to see you know

469
00:21:38,598 --> 00:21:40,558
Speaker 2: exactly where's going to come from and how he responds

470
00:21:40,598 --> 00:21:43,678
Speaker 2: to it, because there's no way to defend it. And

471
00:21:44,078 --> 00:21:46,398
Speaker 2: I mean for me, you know, if I'm sitting across

472
00:21:46,398 --> 00:21:48,318
Speaker 2: the table, I'm really interested in him and ask him

473
00:21:48,358 --> 00:21:51,838
Speaker 2: that question, I would prefer the Jack Ryan approach right there.

474
00:21:51,878 --> 00:21:52,998
Speaker 3: You know what I screwed up?

475
00:21:53,478 --> 00:21:56,238
Speaker 2: Yeah I did. I screwed up. I should obviously should

476
00:21:56,238 --> 00:21:58,918
Speaker 2: have never done. It'll never happen again. I don't know

477
00:21:58,918 --> 00:22:00,478
Speaker 2: what got into me in that moment. I would be like,

478
00:22:00,758 --> 00:22:02,478
Speaker 2: you got to go Jack Ryan on that. If you're

479
00:22:03,158 --> 00:22:07,478
Speaker 2: Ramber and Drack is like the protagonist in the novels

480
00:22:07,478 --> 00:22:11,558
Speaker 2: with Clancy, just yes, admit it, admit it. And I'm

481
00:22:11,598 --> 00:22:13,558
Speaker 2: not saying he has to admit it necessarily publicly, but

482
00:22:13,598 --> 00:22:16,558
Speaker 2: he has to admit it in the room with the

483
00:22:17,038 --> 00:22:21,118
Speaker 2: guys that he's gonna eventually possibly be employed by. I mean,

484
00:22:21,118 --> 00:22:23,678
Speaker 2: for me, that'd be the best tact to get it

485
00:22:23,718 --> 00:22:26,758
Speaker 2: out there, you know, pick the scab, have it heel up,

486
00:22:26,958 --> 00:22:29,918
Speaker 2: and then eventually start building from there. Because if there's not,

487
00:22:30,438 --> 00:22:34,118
Speaker 2: if there's still a disingenuous answer, it's hard to trust

488
00:22:34,118 --> 00:22:35,638
Speaker 2: that this guy is really going to be the guy

489
00:22:36,038 --> 00:22:37,358
Speaker 2: to take you to the promised land.

490
00:22:38,038 --> 00:22:40,118
Speaker 1: That's a great point, and I agree, especially when you're

491
00:22:40,158 --> 00:22:43,118
Speaker 1: talking about he's not going to sign some short term deal.

492
00:22:43,918 --> 00:22:46,518
Speaker 1: This is a long term marriage with his next team.

493
00:22:47,118 --> 00:22:49,478
Speaker 1: Interesting to me that the Astros don't seem to be

494
00:22:49,518 --> 00:22:52,398
Speaker 1: interested at all in a guy who they signed and

495
00:22:52,478 --> 00:22:55,878
Speaker 1: developed and had a lot of success with. I know

496
00:22:55,918 --> 00:22:57,878
Speaker 1: there's some warning signes here. Don't get me wrong. I

497
00:22:57,958 --> 00:23:00,918
Speaker 1: like the picture, but unless I'm in the room with

498
00:23:00,998 --> 00:23:03,718
Speaker 1: him and really hear it from him, I definitely have

499
00:23:04,078 --> 00:23:07,358
Speaker 1: concerns the rest of the market. Joe, You've still got

500
00:23:07,398 --> 00:23:10,038
Speaker 1: Ranger Suarez out there. You've got Zach Gallan, You've got

501
00:23:10,038 --> 00:23:13,998
Speaker 1: Michael King. I thought the Diamondbacks made a great signing

502
00:23:14,038 --> 00:23:18,198
Speaker 1: getting Merle Kelly back there. Two years, forty million dollars. Man,

503
00:23:18,318 --> 00:23:23,038
Speaker 1: that's a bargain, I mean, short term, two years less

504
00:23:23,078 --> 00:23:25,478
Speaker 1: than a qualifying offer for a guy who can pitch

505
00:23:25,478 --> 00:23:29,758
Speaker 1: towards the top of a rotation, a pitch maker, strike thrower.

506
00:23:30,078 --> 00:23:32,918
Speaker 1: I thought that was a really good signing of that group.

507
00:23:33,118 --> 00:23:35,678
Speaker 1: I like Zach Gallan, Joe. I mean, I know people

508
00:23:35,718 --> 00:23:37,798
Speaker 1: are down on him. They looked at the numbers overall

509
00:23:37,878 --> 00:23:40,958
Speaker 1: last year not good. But if you watched him in

510
00:23:40,958 --> 00:23:43,038
Speaker 1: the last two months of the season, that was the

511
00:23:43,118 --> 00:23:46,598
Speaker 1: same as Zach Gallan that was contending for Cy Young's

512
00:23:46,638 --> 00:23:48,518
Speaker 1: pitching in the World Series, pitching at the front of

513
00:23:48,518 --> 00:23:52,718
Speaker 1: a rotation. He just didn't have, for whatever reason, the

514
00:23:52,798 --> 00:23:55,678
Speaker 1: feel and his breaking pitches and off speed pitches, the curveball,

515
00:23:55,798 --> 00:23:58,758
Speaker 1: change up combo in those first three or four months

516
00:23:58,758 --> 00:24:00,878
Speaker 1: of the season. I went back and looked at some film,

517
00:24:00,918 --> 00:24:03,878
Speaker 1: and I noticed when he was throwing the curveball, especially

518
00:24:04,798 --> 00:24:08,878
Speaker 1: his arm after release would be sweeping kind of around

519
00:24:08,918 --> 00:24:11,638
Speaker 1: his hip. And the last two months of the season

520
00:24:11,678 --> 00:24:14,558
Speaker 1: I saw the finish was more like that traditional you know,

521
00:24:14,638 --> 00:24:17,518
Speaker 1: pulling the lampshade down with a hand, was continuing down,

522
00:24:17,598 --> 00:24:21,358
Speaker 1: finishing lower and really putting more finished on that pitch.

523
00:24:21,358 --> 00:24:23,278
Speaker 1: And he had more break to it. Throwing a little

524
00:24:23,278 --> 00:24:25,598
Speaker 1: bit softer with more break. That was the answer to it.

525
00:24:26,478 --> 00:24:29,478
Speaker 1: So I that group I would I didn't even call

526
00:24:29,518 --> 00:24:31,878
Speaker 1: it a flyer, but I'd be interested in Zach Gallam

527
00:24:32,158 --> 00:24:34,278
Speaker 1: with faith that the last two months of the season

528
00:24:34,358 --> 00:24:35,638
Speaker 1: he got back to where he should be.

529
00:24:35,918 --> 00:24:38,118
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's when he's good, he's really good. I didn't

530
00:24:38,118 --> 00:24:40,478
Speaker 2: watch it that closely. That's those are really good points.

531
00:24:41,558 --> 00:24:42,318
Speaker 3: I like all them.

532
00:24:42,438 --> 00:24:46,678
Speaker 2: Actually, I've always liked Suarez too. King I saw briefly

533
00:24:46,678 --> 00:24:48,638
Speaker 2: when he's with the Yankees. Evans I didn't watch as

534
00:24:48,718 --> 00:24:52,158
Speaker 2: much with the Padres. Been reading a lot about that.

535
00:24:52,718 --> 00:24:54,998
Speaker 2: Maybe possibly coming back to the Al East.

536
00:24:55,878 --> 00:24:56,278
Speaker 3: I don't know.

537
00:24:56,318 --> 00:24:59,158
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's right there, it would be. I'd

538
00:24:59,158 --> 00:25:02,078
Speaker 2: have to do a little bit more deep dive. This

539
00:25:02,158 --> 00:25:05,638
Speaker 2: is a this is a perfect moment for your analytical team.

540
00:25:05,678 --> 00:25:07,958
Speaker 2: I think this is exactly what I talk about where

541
00:25:07,958 --> 00:25:11,278
Speaker 2: I say that analytics really play a big part in

542
00:25:11,518 --> 00:25:16,678
Speaker 2: November December baseball, where you're trying to dissect among these

543
00:25:16,718 --> 00:25:19,198
Speaker 2: three really good players pitchers, who do we like the

544
00:25:19,238 --> 00:25:21,878
Speaker 2: best and why? How do they fit into our ballpark?

545
00:25:22,158 --> 00:25:25,438
Speaker 2: Our defense? What kind of defense do they need? I

546
00:25:25,438 --> 00:25:28,278
Speaker 2: don't see them among the three. Then probably King has

547
00:25:28,318 --> 00:25:30,318
Speaker 2: the most sing miss or maybe Gallon on a good day.

548
00:25:30,438 --> 00:25:33,278
Speaker 2: So what do we got here? And the ball and

549
00:25:33,318 --> 00:25:35,958
Speaker 2: play more with Suarez? But we like it because it's

550
00:25:35,958 --> 00:25:38,798
Speaker 2: soft contact kind of a thing. So this is again

551
00:25:39,918 --> 00:25:43,278
Speaker 2: we always talk about analytics and how it pertains to

552
00:25:43,318 --> 00:25:46,118
Speaker 2: the day. It pertains to the day to a certain extent,

553
00:25:46,158 --> 00:25:48,878
Speaker 2: but it really has a chance to be the superstar

554
00:25:48,998 --> 00:25:51,678
Speaker 2: this time of the year when you're trying to dissect

555
00:25:51,718 --> 00:25:55,078
Speaker 2: and understand who do we want. Let's get into this car,

556
00:25:55,318 --> 00:25:58,078
Speaker 2: who do we want? So I don't know enough to

557
00:25:58,158 --> 00:26:01,038
Speaker 2: know exactly among the three. The guy I've seen pitch

558
00:26:01,118 --> 00:26:04,438
Speaker 2: the most is Suarez, and I know he's off and

559
00:26:04,478 --> 00:26:07,158
Speaker 2: on a little bit at times, but sometimes I just

560
00:26:07,198 --> 00:26:11,518
Speaker 2: saw his confidence look to be ebbing and flowing sometimes

561
00:26:11,518 --> 00:26:14,078
Speaker 2: because when this guy's on, he just he pitches more

562
00:26:14,078 --> 00:26:15,758
Speaker 2: deeply into the game, and I like the left handed

563
00:26:15,798 --> 00:26:17,438
Speaker 2: pitch that never gets there sometimes.

564
00:26:18,358 --> 00:26:19,038
Speaker 3: So that's it.

565
00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:22,598
Speaker 2: I'm going to defer to my analytical department, and I'd

566
00:26:22,638 --> 00:26:24,158
Speaker 2: really want to hear what they have to say about

567
00:26:24,158 --> 00:26:28,238
Speaker 2: this and break it down and really describe to me

568
00:26:28,278 --> 00:26:30,558
Speaker 2: how he fits in our guys and how it fits

569
00:26:30,558 --> 00:26:32,878
Speaker 2: into our guys defensively, because that's going to be a

570
00:26:32,918 --> 00:26:36,198
Speaker 2: big part of I think why a group chooses one

571
00:26:36,238 --> 00:26:36,598
Speaker 2: or the other.

572
00:26:36,918 --> 00:26:39,558
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me that the industry just jumped out

573
00:26:39,598 --> 00:26:42,398
Speaker 1: so fast on relief pitching. You know, maybe Pete Fairbanks

574
00:26:42,518 --> 00:26:45,078
Speaker 1: is the last guy out there, but a rush to

575
00:26:45,158 --> 00:26:46,798
Speaker 1: lock up these guys who can pitch late in the

576
00:26:46,838 --> 00:26:49,478
Speaker 1: game and not so much for starting pitching. And at

577
00:26:49,518 --> 00:26:52,358
Speaker 1: the end of the year we always talk about, you know,

578
00:26:52,798 --> 00:26:55,278
Speaker 1: how many innings can your rotation pick up? And the

579
00:26:55,318 --> 00:26:57,998
Speaker 1: teams that don't get a lot typically are in trouble,

580
00:26:58,118 --> 00:27:00,838
Speaker 1: the Dodgers being an exception, just because they're so darn deep.

581
00:27:00,998 --> 00:27:04,678
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think the value of relief pitching as

582
00:27:04,678 --> 00:27:07,118
Speaker 1: we're seeing here this offseason, it should be hired. To

583
00:27:07,118 --> 00:27:09,398
Speaker 1: be quite honest with you, you know I want some

584
00:27:09,518 --> 00:27:10,918
Speaker 1: proven guys in my rotation.

585
00:27:11,518 --> 00:27:16,758
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I've always believed and I still believe,

586
00:27:16,758 --> 00:27:19,518
Speaker 2: a good starting pitching makes for a better bullpen when

587
00:27:19,518 --> 00:27:21,758
Speaker 2: you start laying off that many innings on the guys

588
00:27:21,758 --> 00:27:23,518
Speaker 2: and the pen on a nightly basis, and I know,

589
00:27:24,918 --> 00:27:26,758
Speaker 2: you know you want about the leverage moments and who's

590
00:27:26,758 --> 00:27:27,878
Speaker 2: in the right guy for the eighth and in the

591
00:27:27,958 --> 00:27:30,438
Speaker 2: ninth inning. And sometimes some teams don't even want to

592
00:27:30,478 --> 00:27:32,718
Speaker 2: define closer for that reason. But when you have a

593
00:27:32,758 --> 00:27:34,958
Speaker 2: defined closer, you know it's going to get those last

594
00:27:34,958 --> 00:27:38,478
Speaker 2: couple outs, then it makes those first eight innings easier

595
00:27:38,518 --> 00:27:43,518
Speaker 2: somewhat to try to puzzle together piece it together. I

596
00:27:43,598 --> 00:27:47,118
Speaker 2: just don't understand that mindset whereas you on a nightly

597
00:27:47,198 --> 00:27:51,998
Speaker 2: basis you want to attempt to juggle four innings of

598
00:27:52,638 --> 00:27:56,478
Speaker 2: clean baseball from your bullpen, and especially in the world

599
00:27:56,558 --> 00:27:59,158
Speaker 2: where there is the three batter minimum, that makes it

600
00:27:59,198 --> 00:28:01,198
Speaker 2: even more problematic for me because there's got to be

601
00:28:01,238 --> 00:28:03,398
Speaker 2: some bad matchups in there that you're forced to have

602
00:28:03,958 --> 00:28:05,438
Speaker 2: based on the fact that you just can't go to the

603
00:28:05,438 --> 00:28:09,638
Speaker 2: bullpen for the better matchup, the left on left situation, whatever.

604
00:28:09,958 --> 00:28:12,158
Speaker 2: So listen, whenever I had to go to the bullpen

605
00:28:12,158 --> 00:28:14,838
Speaker 2: in the sixth inning, it was tough, man. And if

606
00:28:14,878 --> 00:28:17,758
Speaker 2: you do it almost every night or often enough, god,

607
00:28:17,798 --> 00:28:20,638
Speaker 2: you get a bunch of exhausted bullpen guys. You're always

608
00:28:20,958 --> 00:28:23,598
Speaker 2: unless you have like these the dynamic group that pitched

609
00:28:23,598 --> 00:28:26,038
Speaker 2: with the Rails several years ago, with the way Davids

610
00:28:26,038 --> 00:28:29,078
Speaker 2: spearheading the whole thing, and that's different, but that doesn't

611
00:28:29,118 --> 00:28:32,638
Speaker 2: happen every year. To rely on perfection, and that's what

612
00:28:32,678 --> 00:28:35,638
Speaker 2: you expect that you relief pictures perfection, and that's always

613
00:28:35,638 --> 00:28:37,878
Speaker 2: been my you know, after the game, you have to

614
00:28:37,918 --> 00:28:40,838
Speaker 2: answer the questions to the media and you'll make a

615
00:28:40,878 --> 00:28:43,518
Speaker 2: decision to bring somebody in or take somebody out, and

616
00:28:43,558 --> 00:28:45,158
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out, and all of a sudden, that

617
00:28:45,278 --> 00:28:48,278
Speaker 2: is the focal point of the discussion. And I always

618
00:28:48,278 --> 00:28:50,598
Speaker 2: have listen, guys, you hold the relief pictures to an

619
00:28:50,598 --> 00:28:52,958
Speaker 2: impossible standard of perfection, and that's what we do.

620
00:28:53,438 --> 00:28:55,678
Speaker 3: So take a little pressure off them.

621
00:28:56,038 --> 00:28:58,318
Speaker 2: I like, if you could get starters to go six

622
00:28:58,358 --> 00:29:00,638
Speaker 2: and when they go six plus and when you start

623
00:29:00,678 --> 00:29:01,798
Speaker 2: to get into the realm, of seven.

624
00:29:01,918 --> 00:29:06,318
Speaker 3: My god, what a difference it makes just mashing up.

625
00:29:06,278 --> 00:29:09,238
Speaker 2: The bullpenp properly and again with the three better minimum

626
00:29:09,438 --> 00:29:10,478
Speaker 2: and providing rest.

627
00:29:10,558 --> 00:29:13,758
Speaker 3: So I don't get it. I know everybody wants they

628
00:29:13,758 --> 00:29:14,198
Speaker 3: all want to.

629
00:29:14,118 --> 00:29:16,678
Speaker 2: Miss bats and they want the fresh armory. But at

630
00:29:16,718 --> 00:29:18,198
Speaker 2: the end of the year, how many guys are buying

631
00:29:18,238 --> 00:29:20,598
Speaker 2: for the championship on an annual basis? Come on, guys,

632
00:29:20,878 --> 00:29:22,958
Speaker 2: let's get some starters that can go more deeply into

633
00:29:22,958 --> 00:29:23,318
Speaker 2: the game.

634
00:29:23,798 --> 00:29:27,038
Speaker 1: And speaking of starters, I mentioned this earlier. Joe one

635
00:29:27,078 --> 00:29:31,038
Speaker 1: of your starting pitchers with the Chicago Cubs. You darvish

636
00:29:31,198 --> 00:29:34,398
Speaker 1: he may be done in baseball. This is nothing official,

637
00:29:34,438 --> 00:29:37,678
Speaker 1: of course, but he is going to need another surgery

638
00:29:37,838 --> 00:29:41,918
Speaker 1: on his elbow. He's got a torn flexor tendon and

639
00:29:41,998 --> 00:29:45,638
Speaker 1: he's got damage to the ulnar collateral ligament. He will

640
00:29:45,678 --> 00:29:48,238
Speaker 1: not pitch in twenty twenty six. He's got three years

641
00:29:48,278 --> 00:29:51,518
Speaker 1: remaining on his contract, forty six million dollars left on

642
00:29:51,558 --> 00:29:55,878
Speaker 1: his contract. He's thirty nine years old. Does he come

643
00:29:55,918 --> 00:29:59,398
Speaker 1: back and pitch in twenty seven? Who knows? This is

644
00:29:59,398 --> 00:30:01,838
Speaker 1: a guy who had Tommy John surgery in twenty fifteen.

645
00:30:02,438 --> 00:30:05,438
Speaker 1: He had Arthur Scottpeck elbow twenty eighteen. He had a

646
00:30:05,438 --> 00:30:09,198
Speaker 1: stress reaction in the elbow in twenty twenty three, So

647
00:30:09,838 --> 00:30:12,718
Speaker 1: you know, listen, we're a long way off, but listen,

648
00:30:12,918 --> 00:30:15,678
Speaker 1: this guy's had a great career. When I think Joe

649
00:30:15,758 --> 00:30:19,998
Speaker 1: about people who can spin the baseball, he's one of

650
00:30:20,038 --> 00:30:22,198
Speaker 1: the first names for me that comes to mind. It

651
00:30:22,358 --> 00:30:25,438
Speaker 1: just his ability to spin the baseball and command it

652
00:30:25,518 --> 00:30:29,438
Speaker 1: just remarkable. And what a career he has had, whether

653
00:30:29,478 --> 00:30:32,838
Speaker 1: it's over or not. If you combine his seven years

654
00:30:32,878 --> 00:30:38,038
Speaker 1: in Japan his thirteen years in the major leagues, two

655
00:30:38,158 --> 00:30:43,958
Speaker 1: hundred and eight wins, thirty three hundred strikeouts, four hundred

656
00:30:43,998 --> 00:30:46,478
Speaker 1: and sixty one games started. Now, if you just look

657
00:30:46,518 --> 00:30:52,078
Speaker 1: at the Major League totals, his strikeout rate over of

658
00:30:52,078 --> 00:30:55,558
Speaker 1: all the pitchers with at least seventeen hundred innings, it

659
00:30:55,638 --> 00:30:58,598
Speaker 1: is the fourth highest strikeout rate of all time. Chris

660
00:30:58,598 --> 00:31:02,118
Speaker 1: Sale number one, Randy Johnson number two, Mac Shure's are

661
00:31:02,198 --> 00:31:05,878
Speaker 1: number three, and you d are number four. And I

662
00:31:05,878 --> 00:31:08,478
Speaker 1: can tell you this that the Padres love him so

663
00:31:08,678 --> 00:31:11,998
Speaker 1: much they want him around even while he's rehabing. This

664
00:31:12,078 --> 00:31:14,478
Speaker 1: guy helped out a lot. Randy Vasquez and some of

665
00:31:14,518 --> 00:31:18,598
Speaker 1: the other pictures on the Padres team. His pitching intellect

666
00:31:18,678 --> 00:31:23,358
Speaker 1: is off the charts. I actually think he's been an underrated,

667
00:31:23,638 --> 00:31:26,678
Speaker 1: underappreciated picture in the game, Joe, and I know you

668
00:31:26,758 --> 00:31:28,598
Speaker 1: probably feel differently because you had him.

669
00:31:28,758 --> 00:31:31,318
Speaker 2: First of all, start as a human being, he's wonderful.

670
00:31:31,398 --> 00:31:32,078
Speaker 3: He really is.

671
00:31:33,038 --> 00:31:35,398
Speaker 2: His family, his kids, His son used to come and

672
00:31:35,438 --> 00:31:38,398
Speaker 2: shag and at Wrigley and center field would be like

673
00:31:38,478 --> 00:31:40,598
Speaker 2: thirty degrees out. He's out there with shorts and a

674
00:31:40,638 --> 00:31:42,638
Speaker 2: T shirt on. He's running the fly balls down. What

675
00:31:42,718 --> 00:31:46,238
Speaker 2: a great kid, you Darbysh is all and I understand

676
00:31:46,238 --> 00:31:47,278
Speaker 2: it completely why the.

677
00:31:47,198 --> 00:31:48,358
Speaker 3: Padres want him around.

678
00:31:48,878 --> 00:31:52,958
Speaker 2: Well, we're talking about when you talk about spinning the ball,

679
00:31:53,158 --> 00:31:55,438
Speaker 2: he has. He has as good a feel for what

680
00:31:55,478 --> 00:31:58,318
Speaker 2: he was doing as any guy, any pitcher I've had then,

681
00:31:58,318 --> 00:32:01,598
Speaker 2: And honestly the next guy would be like show, Hey,

682
00:32:02,278 --> 00:32:04,598
Speaker 2: it's something in bred and the up in the culture

683
00:32:04,598 --> 00:32:07,918
Speaker 2: when they pitch. I mean, these guys, they have this

684
00:32:08,158 --> 00:32:11,158
Speaker 2: ability to spin the ball, and they got these deliveries

685
00:32:11,158 --> 00:32:13,838
Speaker 2: that are normally under control. They're never getting out in front.

686
00:32:14,718 --> 00:32:19,158
Speaker 2: It's a controlled slower, almost this hesitation or pause. They'll

687
00:32:19,398 --> 00:32:21,038
Speaker 2: throw the shoot though the split and I don't even

688
00:32:21,078 --> 00:32:22,638
Speaker 2: know and I still believe that has something to do

689
00:32:22,678 --> 00:32:25,398
Speaker 2: with the elbow injuries, and I'd have to be proven otherwise.

690
00:32:26,078 --> 00:32:27,598
Speaker 2: So I think you just have to accept the fact

691
00:32:27,638 --> 00:32:29,478
Speaker 2: that it's going to pop up at some point. However,

692
00:32:30,718 --> 00:32:32,558
Speaker 2: if in fact, I don't know that the surgery he

693
00:32:32,718 --> 00:32:35,318
Speaker 2: is horrible, it's going to be. But I would bet

694
00:32:35,398 --> 00:32:37,358
Speaker 2: that he's going to do everything he possibly can to

695
00:32:37,398 --> 00:32:39,078
Speaker 2: come back and pitch again, I would think. And then

696
00:32:39,118 --> 00:32:40,758
Speaker 2: if he gets to that point, if he can't do

697
00:32:40,758 --> 00:32:42,118
Speaker 2: it anymore, he's just going to say I can't do

698
00:32:42,118 --> 00:32:44,998
Speaker 2: it anymore. But this guy, he went out to the

699
00:32:45,878 --> 00:32:49,638
Speaker 2: bullpen and Wrigley one day and he's walking past Kyle Hendricks.

700
00:32:49,718 --> 00:32:53,318
Speaker 2: Kyle has that great you talk about an air bending changeup.

701
00:32:53,718 --> 00:32:56,038
Speaker 2: Kyle is one of the best. Walking by Colin. He says,

702
00:32:56,038 --> 00:32:58,318
Speaker 2: show me the grip, show me the grip on your changeup.

703
00:32:58,598 --> 00:33:00,918
Speaker 2: So he goes out to the pen and he's working

704
00:33:01,518 --> 00:33:04,998
Speaker 2: on the change up with this grip and comes in

705
00:33:05,038 --> 00:33:07,638
Speaker 2: and Bzilso's heads up.

706
00:33:07,678 --> 00:33:08,038
Speaker 3: Watch this.

707
00:33:08,558 --> 00:33:10,438
Speaker 2: So during the course of that game he starts throwing

708
00:33:10,438 --> 00:33:11,918
Speaker 2: this change up. But I mean it was like really

709
00:33:12,118 --> 00:33:14,958
Speaker 2: well done, was good. It was like swing and miss

710
00:33:15,438 --> 00:33:16,478
Speaker 2: arms feed everything else.

711
00:33:16,998 --> 00:33:17,598
Speaker 3: Who does that.

712
00:33:17,958 --> 00:33:20,158
Speaker 2: Who walks out to a bullpen a major league pitcher

713
00:33:20,598 --> 00:33:23,038
Speaker 2: having that kind of feel and understanding of his arm

714
00:33:23,078 --> 00:33:25,358
Speaker 2: and his body and what's going on to take a

715
00:33:25,398 --> 00:33:27,158
Speaker 2: new grip and then take it into a major league

716
00:33:27,158 --> 00:33:28,438
Speaker 2: game and be successful with it.

717
00:33:29,438 --> 00:33:32,158
Speaker 3: I'm just a huge fan. I wish him nothing but

718
00:33:32,238 --> 00:33:32,478
Speaker 3: the best.

719
00:33:32,478 --> 00:33:33,958
Speaker 2: I hope it works out well enough he wants to

720
00:33:33,958 --> 00:33:36,158
Speaker 2: pitch again, that he does, and if he doesn't, that

721
00:33:36,238 --> 00:33:39,558
Speaker 2: he doesn't. But I could totally understand why an organization

722
00:33:39,598 --> 00:33:43,078
Speaker 2: would want this fellow. Communicatively, I really enjoyed my conversations

723
00:33:43,078 --> 00:33:43,438
Speaker 2: with him.

724
00:33:43,798 --> 00:33:46,118
Speaker 1: You made a great point that I had not thought

725
00:33:46,158 --> 00:33:49,398
Speaker 1: about Joe in terms of kind of the Japanese style

726
00:33:49,438 --> 00:33:51,918
Speaker 1: of pitching. And I can see it in my mind's

727
00:33:51,958 --> 00:33:54,718
Speaker 1: eye right now when you're talking about and you mentioned

728
00:33:54,798 --> 00:34:00,998
Speaker 1: Showhy does this as well in Darbish Yamamoto, Kokuchi, a Managa, Sasaki.

729
00:34:01,758 --> 00:34:04,998
Speaker 1: They all are never in a hurry. It's just to

730
00:34:05,078 --> 00:34:08,238
Speaker 1: kind of gather and go where they're over the rubber

731
00:34:08,318 --> 00:34:13,078
Speaker 1: for a long time. Very athletic, very balanced. Like Robin

732
00:34:13,198 --> 00:34:15,158
Speaker 1: Roberts used to say a long time ago, if you're

733
00:34:15,158 --> 00:34:18,678
Speaker 1: gonna hurry, hurry at the end, right And I could

734
00:34:18,718 --> 00:34:21,678
Speaker 1: see and I saw this in the postseason where Yamamoto

735
00:34:21,758 --> 00:34:25,998
Speaker 1: would be miming his delivery in the dugout in between innings,

736
00:34:26,038 --> 00:34:28,718
Speaker 1: just kind of perfecting the timing of it. Nobody seems

737
00:34:28,758 --> 00:34:31,638
Speaker 1: to be as you mentioned, you know, spinning off their heel,

738
00:34:31,958 --> 00:34:34,998
Speaker 1: falling off to the first base side. I like to

739
00:34:35,038 --> 00:34:38,918
Speaker 1: watch pitchers who keep a very still head when they throw,

740
00:34:38,958 --> 00:34:41,438
Speaker 1: where it doesn't go off to the side, it doesn't drop.

741
00:34:41,918 --> 00:34:44,758
Speaker 1: I watched Greg Mannix's head and it's like a great hitter.

742
00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:47,838
Speaker 1: It never moved the strike. Throwers just watch their heads

743
00:34:48,198 --> 00:34:49,678
Speaker 1: and you just hit on something. I think with the

744
00:34:49,758 --> 00:34:52,918
Speaker 1: Japanese style of pitching, I think that, you know, I

745
00:34:52,918 --> 00:34:55,598
Speaker 1: got to pay more attention to now because they all

746
00:34:55,638 --> 00:34:59,038
Speaker 1: do seem to have that trait where they're so well balanced,

747
00:34:59,398 --> 00:35:02,318
Speaker 1: kind of start slow, They're never in a hurry over

748
00:35:02,358 --> 00:35:02,918
Speaker 1: the back leg.

749
00:35:03,478 --> 00:35:07,398
Speaker 2: What goes back to instructionally, Back in the eighties, they

750
00:35:07,398 --> 00:35:09,558
Speaker 2: had the Tokyo Giants used to come over and had

751
00:35:09,558 --> 00:35:12,798
Speaker 2: a picture named Keita built kind of like darbish.

752
00:35:12,918 --> 00:35:15,478
Speaker 3: I think it was Keda something to that effect.

753
00:35:15,518 --> 00:35:19,518
Speaker 2: Four letters, big tall, right hander, great split the thing

754
00:35:19,598 --> 00:35:23,078
Speaker 2: that I and big velocity too. I went up to

755
00:35:23,118 --> 00:35:26,398
Speaker 2: their manager, their manager on pseudo, and I asked them,

756
00:35:26,518 --> 00:35:28,678
Speaker 2: you know, to talk to the pitching coach, and I

757
00:35:28,718 --> 00:35:31,838
Speaker 2: wanted to know, why do they all have such great command?

758
00:35:32,318 --> 00:35:34,438
Speaker 2: Why are all your pitchers of great command? And they

759
00:35:34,438 --> 00:35:36,878
Speaker 2: throw the ball, excuse me, down on the zone. And

760
00:35:36,918 --> 00:35:40,918
Speaker 2: the pitching coach said to me, chin down. So what

761
00:35:41,478 --> 00:35:45,118
Speaker 2: you said, chin down? Your American pitchers, your face goes

762
00:35:45,198 --> 00:35:46,758
Speaker 2: up in the air. You're always left in your chin

763
00:35:46,838 --> 00:35:48,958
Speaker 2: up in the air. What he wanted was the pitcher

764
00:35:48,998 --> 00:35:51,078
Speaker 2: to have his chin down as he threw the ball,

765
00:35:51,358 --> 00:35:54,158
Speaker 2: which I think, probably you think about it promotes a

766
00:35:54,238 --> 00:35:56,638
Speaker 2: more still head, and I agree with that. I mean,

767
00:35:57,838 --> 00:35:59,638
Speaker 2: you watch guys throw a ball real well, whether it's

768
00:35:59,638 --> 00:36:02,798
Speaker 2: a football, baseball, whatever ball or hitters that are really

769
00:36:02,798 --> 00:36:06,678
Speaker 2: good that head Jack Nicholas with golf, everything that everything

770
00:36:06,758 --> 00:36:11,038
Speaker 2: rotates around that axis, that stays still, so chin down.

771
00:36:11,238 --> 00:36:13,278
Speaker 2: That was my explanation given to me. I used to

772
00:36:13,358 --> 00:36:16,358
Speaker 2: talk to these guys all the time because they're fundamentally

773
00:36:17,318 --> 00:36:19,438
Speaker 2: I thought they were better than us. I mean even

774
00:36:19,718 --> 00:36:23,998
Speaker 2: catcher's blocking balls, oh my god, the Japanese catchers and

775
00:36:24,078 --> 00:36:27,478
Speaker 2: instructional League. I never seen guys block balls that well.

776
00:36:27,798 --> 00:36:31,038
Speaker 2: And when I went over to Fitch Park and they

777
00:36:31,038 --> 00:36:32,678
Speaker 2: were practicing over there before a game.

778
00:36:32,718 --> 00:36:33,398
Speaker 3: I was watching him.

779
00:36:33,758 --> 00:36:38,638
Speaker 2: They'd get a shopping or excuse me, a closed basket

780
00:36:38,638 --> 00:36:41,558
Speaker 2: full of baseballs, and a coach would stand on the

781
00:36:41,678 --> 00:36:45,638
Speaker 2: rubber facing home plate with the fungo and the catcher

782
00:36:45,638 --> 00:36:47,878
Speaker 2: would be in full gear with also extra protection on

783
00:36:47,918 --> 00:36:53,638
Speaker 2: his forearms, and the coach would drill balls to home

784
00:36:53,638 --> 00:36:55,998
Speaker 2: plate with the fungo to a catcher who was just

785
00:36:56,278 --> 00:37:00,278
Speaker 2: basically like a hockey goalie. It was conventionally right out

786
00:37:00,318 --> 00:37:02,438
Speaker 2: of me to do this great technique, if not just

787
00:37:02,518 --> 00:37:06,358
Speaker 2: knock it down somehow. These guys were fabulous at blocking

788
00:37:06,438 --> 00:37:10,958
Speaker 2: balls in the dirt. We overpowered them overall at that point.

789
00:37:11,478 --> 00:37:16,838
Speaker 2: But teaching wise, finesse wise, fundamentally wise, I really liked

790
00:37:16,958 --> 00:37:19,518
Speaker 2: their their what they look like in their methods. So

791
00:37:19,718 --> 00:37:22,358
Speaker 2: none of this is a surprise. They they teach us

792
00:37:22,358 --> 00:37:26,118
Speaker 2: from from Jump Street. And that's why I think a

793
00:37:26,118 --> 00:37:29,158
Speaker 2: lot of these guys do have great command and great

794
00:37:29,198 --> 00:37:32,038
Speaker 2: finish on their pitches, because like you just suggested, they're

795
00:37:32,078 --> 00:37:33,198
Speaker 2: never jumping out at the plate.

796
00:37:33,478 --> 00:37:36,478
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they drill a lot over there, no question

797
00:37:36,558 --> 00:37:39,318
Speaker 1: about it. The work on the fundamentals, I love that

798
00:37:39,358 --> 00:37:43,478
Speaker 1: idea about putting patting on their forearms. Really, I'll keep

799
00:37:43,518 --> 00:37:44,838
Speaker 1: you in there and blocking balls.

800
00:37:45,078 --> 00:37:48,038
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, dude, these are bullets.

801
00:37:48,078 --> 00:37:50,838
Speaker 2: These are like bullets, and I'm watching it's going god

802
00:37:50,918 --> 00:37:51,958
Speaker 2: you and I was a former catcher.

803
00:37:51,958 --> 00:37:54,038
Speaker 3: I thought that would have been fun. I really did.

804
00:37:54,078 --> 00:37:55,078
Speaker 3: I thought that would have been fun.

805
00:37:55,598 --> 00:37:57,438
Speaker 1: Hey, we're going to take a quick break when we

806
00:37:57,478 --> 00:37:59,358
Speaker 1: come back. We'll get just out of the day, as

807
00:37:59,358 --> 00:38:01,318
Speaker 1: we always do. But I also want to talk about

808
00:38:01,638 --> 00:38:05,678
Speaker 1: an incredible baseball life, baseball community lost to someone who

809
00:38:05,758 --> 00:38:09,758
Speaker 1: had a career unlike almost anyone else. And we'll talk

810
00:38:09,798 --> 00:38:24,038
Speaker 1: about that right after this on the Book of Joe.

811
00:38:25,798 --> 00:38:27,598
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. I'm not sure

812
00:38:27,598 --> 00:38:31,038
Speaker 1: if you saw this. The name is not a household name.

813
00:38:31,238 --> 00:38:34,238
Speaker 1: George Altman passed away. He was ninety two years old.

814
00:38:35,718 --> 00:38:37,838
Speaker 1: What a career. He's one of the few people in

815
00:38:37,878 --> 00:38:41,558
Speaker 1: baseball history who played in the Negro leagues, in the

816
00:38:41,638 --> 00:38:47,238
Speaker 1: Major leagues and in Japan. How about that. He also

817
00:38:47,358 --> 00:38:49,318
Speaker 1: was the first guy to hit two home runs in

818
00:38:49,318 --> 00:38:52,358
Speaker 1: the same game off Sandy Kofak, something that Ernie Banks

819
00:38:52,398 --> 00:38:55,678
Speaker 1: later did. But yeah, he went from the Kansas City

820
00:38:56,078 --> 00:38:58,758
Speaker 1: Monarchs to Major League Baseball, where he was a really

821
00:38:58,758 --> 00:39:01,358
Speaker 1: good player for the Cubs. Got traded to the Cardinals

822
00:39:01,398 --> 00:39:03,038
Speaker 1: and then traded to the Mets, and then back to

823
00:39:03,078 --> 00:39:06,998
Speaker 1: the Cubs and went often. Had a great career in

824
00:39:07,118 --> 00:39:10,278
Speaker 1: Japan as well. He died at ninety two. He was

825
00:39:10,318 --> 00:39:13,838
Speaker 1: the oldest living New York Met at the time. It

826
00:39:13,918 --> 00:39:16,158
Speaker 1: was interesting I mentioned traded to the Mets. He get

827
00:39:16,198 --> 00:39:19,518
Speaker 1: traded to the Mets after the sixty three season for

828
00:39:19,718 --> 00:39:24,198
Speaker 1: Roger Craig. Remember Roger Craig. Yeah, with the sixty two

829
00:39:24,238 --> 00:39:28,758
Speaker 1: Mets and sixty three Mets. The general manager George Weiss

830
00:39:28,838 --> 00:39:31,878
Speaker 1: was asked about dealing Roger Craig, who was a very

831
00:39:31,918 --> 00:39:36,998
Speaker 1: popular player, a great guy on those teams. Weis had

832
00:39:36,998 --> 00:39:39,838
Speaker 1: a great line. He said, well, when a guy loses

833
00:39:40,078 --> 00:39:43,158
Speaker 1: forty six games, we're talking about two years. When a

834
00:39:43,198 --> 00:39:46,078
Speaker 1: guy loses forty six games, I think it's time for

835
00:39:46,118 --> 00:39:48,958
Speaker 1: a change. He was traded for George Altman came over

836
00:39:48,998 --> 00:39:51,998
Speaker 1: to play for Casey Stangle. But what a fascinating career

837
00:39:53,598 --> 00:39:56,038
Speaker 1: all total, in all those leagues, he wound up hitting

838
00:39:56,078 --> 00:39:58,478
Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty nine home runs. I mean, you

839
00:39:58,558 --> 00:40:01,838
Speaker 1: know that guy loved baseball. When you continue to play

840
00:40:01,918 --> 00:40:03,358
Speaker 1: literally all around the world.

841
00:40:03,958 --> 00:40:06,758
Speaker 3: Isn't it great? That's that's so, that is baseball.

842
00:40:08,078 --> 00:40:10,998
Speaker 2: You know, the generation at the time we grew up within,

843
00:40:12,358 --> 00:40:15,198
Speaker 2: that kind of a story really resonates. It was purely

844
00:40:15,238 --> 00:40:18,078
Speaker 2: for the love of the game and and everybody that

845
00:40:18,278 --> 00:40:20,278
Speaker 2: everybody that surrounded him.

846
00:40:20,718 --> 00:40:21,678
Speaker 3: It's just that the.

847
00:40:22,158 --> 00:40:24,518
Speaker 2: Purest, the most purest sense of the game of baseball

848
00:40:25,598 --> 00:40:27,838
Speaker 2: was not lost on anybody in that generation or a

849
00:40:28,198 --> 00:40:30,878
Speaker 2: player like Altman. And I do remember him briefly with

850
00:40:30,918 --> 00:40:34,678
Speaker 2: the Cardinals sixty three, I believe briefly with the Cardinals

851
00:40:34,798 --> 00:40:37,478
Speaker 2: and had his baseball card because that's when I that

852
00:40:37,558 --> 00:40:40,398
Speaker 2: was the my first year I became officially a Saint

853
00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:45,278
Speaker 2: Louis Baseball Cardinal fan going into sixty four. Yeah, I remember,

854
00:40:45,358 --> 00:40:48,358
Speaker 2: I remember is the card I remember all of that

855
00:40:49,798 --> 00:40:54,398
Speaker 2: to play in multi continents and and just purely play

856
00:40:54,478 --> 00:40:57,998
Speaker 2: because he loved it. It's wonderful and I'm so happy,

857
00:40:58,038 --> 00:41:00,118
Speaker 2: like you know that you brought it up. And these

858
00:41:00,158 --> 00:41:02,038
Speaker 2: are the kind of things we can't forget about. I mean,

859
00:41:02,638 --> 00:41:06,038
Speaker 2: this is the again, you don't necessarily read or hear that,

860
00:41:06,198 --> 00:41:09,278
Speaker 2: or in today's game, you don't really expect a lot

861
00:41:09,318 --> 00:41:12,118
Speaker 2: of guys or anybody to do what a George Altman

862
00:41:12,198 --> 00:41:15,078
Speaker 2: did and probably not required anymore. But it's so cool

863
00:41:15,078 --> 00:41:16,838
Speaker 2: to hear that kind of a story because it really

864
00:41:17,718 --> 00:41:19,718
Speaker 2: speaks to the essence of why we played this game.

865
00:41:20,238 --> 00:41:22,958
Speaker 1: Yeah, when he was thirty eight years old, he's playing

866
00:41:22,958 --> 00:41:27,038
Speaker 1: for the Lote Orions. This is back in nineteen seventy one.

867
00:41:27,198 --> 00:41:29,358
Speaker 1: He had thirty nine home runs at the age of

868
00:41:29,398 --> 00:41:32,758
Speaker 1: thirty eight, So it's a big left handed hitting dude. Yeah,

869
00:41:32,798 --> 00:41:36,238
Speaker 1: you're right. He played for the sixty three Cardinals. So

870
00:41:36,278 --> 00:41:40,718
Speaker 1: now the oldest living met from what most people can establish,

871
00:41:40,958 --> 00:41:42,718
Speaker 1: is a guy by the name of John de Merit

872
00:41:42,758 --> 00:41:46,318
Speaker 1: who turns ninety years old in January. He played on

873
00:41:46,358 --> 00:41:49,798
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty two Mets. Actually he started his career.

874
00:41:49,838 --> 00:41:52,478
Speaker 1: He was a local guy drafted by the Milwaukee Braves

875
00:41:52,998 --> 00:41:55,998
Speaker 1: and he played ninety three games with the Braves at

876
00:41:55,998 --> 00:41:58,638
Speaker 1: a buck seventy four. Was an outfielder. He got picked

877
00:41:58,678 --> 00:42:01,198
Speaker 1: in the expansion Draft by the Mets. So he goes

878
00:42:01,198 --> 00:42:04,358
Speaker 1: to the Mets and didn't play a whole lot. Casey

879
00:42:04,358 --> 00:42:06,358
Speaker 1: Stangel didn't use him a lot, and so the Mets

880
00:42:06,838 --> 00:42:09,958
Speaker 1: sent him to Syracuse. They sold his contract to Triple

881
00:42:10,038 --> 00:42:13,798
Speaker 1: A and he decided to retire at that point. That's

882
00:42:13,878 --> 00:42:16,918
Speaker 1: John de Merritt, who's now the oldest New York met

883
00:42:16,958 --> 00:42:18,838
Speaker 1: turning ninety years old in January.

884
00:42:19,078 --> 00:42:21,478
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's any relationship to Marty de Merrit.

885
00:42:21,478 --> 00:42:25,238
Speaker 2: Marty recently passed away. Marty's one of them classic classic

886
00:42:25,598 --> 00:42:27,118
Speaker 2: characters in the game of baseball.

887
00:42:27,198 --> 00:42:29,278
Speaker 3: Former major league pitching coach.

888
00:42:30,038 --> 00:42:33,118
Speaker 2: He used to run the San Francisco Giants minor leagues

889
00:42:33,158 --> 00:42:37,878
Speaker 2: for years as a pitching coach. God, no bigger character,

890
00:42:37,998 --> 00:42:41,278
Speaker 2: no more fun guy, no more bigger personality. I think

891
00:42:41,278 --> 00:42:43,438
Speaker 2: he ended up living in Venezuela at the in his

892
00:42:43,558 --> 00:42:47,518
Speaker 2: last days. But Marty, their an instructional league in Arizona,

893
00:42:47,998 --> 00:42:50,518
Speaker 2: which it would be hundred and five hundred and ten.

894
00:42:51,598 --> 00:42:54,478
Speaker 2: You're playing in October September, October. You go out to

895
00:42:54,518 --> 00:42:57,358
Speaker 2: the pitching mount. He had zinc all over his redhead

896
00:42:57,398 --> 00:42:59,878
Speaker 2: with all over his face, and he would have his

897
00:42:59,998 --> 00:43:03,038
Speaker 2: jacket on like not the lightweight jacket. He'd have the heavy,

898
00:43:03,398 --> 00:43:06,318
Speaker 2: giant check with a talet around his neck.

899
00:43:06,838 --> 00:43:07,878
Speaker 3: And he'd walk out.

900
00:43:07,718 --> 00:43:10,078
Speaker 2: To the mound in his bombastic way, and he put

901
00:43:10,118 --> 00:43:12,998
Speaker 2: his hands on the shoulders of the pitcher. He was

902
00:43:12,998 --> 00:43:14,878
Speaker 2: going to talk to with his nose about I went

903
00:43:15,238 --> 00:43:17,998
Speaker 2: eight inches away from the fellow's nose, and he would

904
00:43:18,238 --> 00:43:20,198
Speaker 2: just inspire his pitching staff.

905
00:43:20,558 --> 00:43:21,878
Speaker 3: They all loved Marty.

906
00:43:21,918 --> 00:43:27,558
Speaker 2: DeMeritt eventually was with the Rays. And anyway, it's a

907
00:43:27,678 --> 00:43:30,278
Speaker 2: true character of the game. And there's another guy, not

908
00:43:30,358 --> 00:43:34,478
Speaker 2: unlike Altman, that did his work all throughout baseball wherever

909
00:43:34,518 --> 00:43:37,158
Speaker 2: it existed, and was a true character of the game.

910
00:43:37,198 --> 00:43:40,038
Speaker 2: And these are the kind of guys that really do miss.

911
00:43:40,038 --> 00:43:43,518
Speaker 1: No absolutely And I love hearing anything about the sixty

912
00:43:43,518 --> 00:43:46,958
Speaker 1: two Mets because one of the greatest characters ever, Casey Stengele,

913
00:43:47,118 --> 00:43:50,798
Speaker 1: was the manager of that team. And actually, DEMI wasn't

914
00:43:50,798 --> 00:43:53,718
Speaker 1: a big fan of Casey's as I said, he really

915
00:43:53,758 --> 00:43:57,278
Speaker 1: didn't play a whole lot. And he said Casey used

916
00:43:57,318 --> 00:44:01,078
Speaker 1: to fall asleep during games and other players had to

917
00:44:01,118 --> 00:44:04,038
Speaker 1: translate the Stengle Lees as it was known to to

918
00:44:04,118 --> 00:44:06,678
Speaker 1: Marry He's like, what's he talking about? So he wasn't

919
00:44:06,678 --> 00:44:08,478
Speaker 1: a big fan of Casey, But how can you not

920
00:44:08,518 --> 00:44:11,278
Speaker 1: be a fan of Casey and the colorful character that

921
00:44:11,318 --> 00:44:11,718
Speaker 1: he was.

922
00:44:12,198 --> 00:44:15,638
Speaker 2: Whitey Herzog was a big fan of Casey. Whitey thought

923
00:44:15,638 --> 00:44:17,878
Speaker 2: he was one of the smartest baseball guys he ever met.

924
00:44:18,358 --> 00:44:20,358
Speaker 2: Just as an example, and I got this from Whitey.

925
00:44:20,358 --> 00:44:23,958
Speaker 2: I think it was Whitey. You know, sacrifice Bot was

926
00:44:24,038 --> 00:44:27,438
Speaker 2: very popular back then, and white excuse me, Casey would

927
00:44:27,478 --> 00:44:30,678
Speaker 2: have his pictures. He wanted to throw, like runners on

928
00:44:30,678 --> 00:44:32,878
Speaker 2: first and second, throw a breaking ball in a bunch

929
00:44:32,958 --> 00:44:35,278
Speaker 2: situation for a strike, because it took longer to get

930
00:44:35,278 --> 00:44:37,638
Speaker 2: to the play, which then permitted you was a pitcher,

931
00:44:37,678 --> 00:44:40,638
Speaker 2: to get closer to the third baseline to possibly make

932
00:44:40,718 --> 00:44:43,638
Speaker 2: that play off of the breaking ball pitch. Now, I

933
00:44:43,638 --> 00:44:45,718
Speaker 2: don't know, think about it, there's going to be a

934
00:44:45,758 --> 00:44:48,318
Speaker 2: little bit time difference in that, but the fact to

935
00:44:48,398 --> 00:44:50,078
Speaker 2: take it to that level, and I'd love to know

936
00:44:50,118 --> 00:44:53,118
Speaker 2: how often it maybe did or did not work. But nevertheless,

937
00:44:52,998 --> 00:44:55,318
Speaker 2: it's one of those thoughts. So probably something I would

938
00:44:55,318 --> 00:44:57,358
Speaker 2: have thought of at some point, but I got it

939
00:44:57,478 --> 00:45:00,798
Speaker 2: from from Whitey, and then of course nobody bunch anymore,

940
00:45:00,798 --> 00:45:02,398
Speaker 2: so there's no real reason to.

941
00:45:02,358 --> 00:45:03,438
Speaker 3: Try to put it to a test.

942
00:45:03,478 --> 00:45:05,678
Speaker 2: But that was something that Whitey told me, and he

943
00:45:05,718 --> 00:45:08,358
Speaker 2: also told me that he just thought case is one

944
00:45:08,358 --> 00:45:10,478
Speaker 2: of the brightest baseball minds he was ever around.

945
00:45:10,758 --> 00:45:13,758
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. I've never heard that before, because you know,

946
00:45:13,998 --> 00:45:17,878
Speaker 1: Traditionally they say the high fastball is the harder pitch

947
00:45:17,958 --> 00:45:20,398
Speaker 1: to bunt. So let's see a lot of high fastballs

948
00:45:20,398 --> 00:45:22,518
Speaker 1: first pitches. When you think a team might be bunting.

949
00:45:22,798 --> 00:45:25,478
Speaker 1: What do you think? You think, Hey, there's a merit

950
00:45:25,558 --> 00:45:28,598
Speaker 1: to that. I do, or would you? Is the curveball

951
00:45:28,638 --> 00:45:30,198
Speaker 1: easier to bunt than a high fastball?

952
00:45:30,398 --> 00:45:32,518
Speaker 2: It might be, but if you're in position to field it,

953
00:45:32,718 --> 00:45:34,678
Speaker 2: then you get to out of third basis, which is

954
00:45:34,718 --> 00:45:37,118
Speaker 2: what he was after anyway. No, the high fastball is

955
00:45:37,158 --> 00:45:41,758
Speaker 2: way more difficult to actually bunt. But who had like

956
00:45:41,798 --> 00:45:44,878
Speaker 2: a really great high fastball back then. I don't know

957
00:45:44,918 --> 00:45:47,438
Speaker 2: what the velocities were, but I think that if in fact,

958
00:45:47,478 --> 00:45:49,638
Speaker 2: you could get your pitcher in a position to feel

959
00:45:49,638 --> 00:45:51,278
Speaker 2: the bundy bet, a good fielding pitcher with a good

960
00:45:51,318 --> 00:45:53,518
Speaker 2: breaking ball you could throw for a strike, all these

961
00:45:53,838 --> 00:45:57,318
Speaker 2: these things would be factor as part of the pregame conversation.

962
00:45:57,438 --> 00:45:59,398
Speaker 2: Another thing, like you look at Billy Martin. I worked

963
00:45:59,398 --> 00:46:01,678
Speaker 2: with Lee Walls. Lee Walls is a very good outfield coach.

964
00:46:01,718 --> 00:46:06,038
Speaker 2: He was part of Billy's mafia back in the day.

965
00:46:06,398 --> 00:46:08,758
Speaker 2: But Billy would have is when the picture was fresh

966
00:46:08,758 --> 00:46:12,278
Speaker 2: early in the game, he would have his outfielders play

967
00:46:12,358 --> 00:46:15,838
Speaker 2: up more tightly, and as the game was in progress,

968
00:46:15,878 --> 00:46:17,358
Speaker 2: he would have them spread out as long as the

969
00:46:17,478 --> 00:46:20,118
Speaker 2: Saint pitcher was in the game, because as he got tired,

970
00:46:20,118 --> 00:46:21,918
Speaker 2: he thought that the pitcher might be more apt to

971
00:46:21,958 --> 00:46:22,558
Speaker 2: get hit hard.

972
00:46:22,798 --> 00:46:23,878
Speaker 3: Now, it's just something small.

973
00:46:23,878 --> 00:46:27,038
Speaker 2: I mean, we didn't have the sophistication of data and

974
00:46:27,078 --> 00:46:29,198
Speaker 2: analytics back then as they do now. But that was

975
00:46:29,558 --> 00:46:33,678
Speaker 2: Billy's analytical mind was as the picture was fresher, played

976
00:46:33,678 --> 00:46:35,398
Speaker 2: tighter because the ball wasn't going to be hit as one.

977
00:46:35,398 --> 00:46:37,478
Speaker 2: As the pitcher got two more pitches, a little bit

978
00:46:37,558 --> 00:46:39,998
Speaker 2: more tired, let's open this up. Outfielders a little bit

979
00:46:40,038 --> 00:46:42,598
Speaker 2: more deep into the outfield. And that's the way he

980
00:46:42,638 --> 00:46:45,518
Speaker 2: worked his analytical mind playing defense back in the day

981
00:46:45,518 --> 00:46:46,198
Speaker 2: in the outfield.

982
00:46:46,518 --> 00:46:50,678
Speaker 1: And Billy was Casey's guy, that was his mentor, Billy Martin.

983
00:46:50,758 --> 00:46:54,318
Speaker 1: Casey stangled that connection there. And yeah, I covered Billy

984
00:46:54,358 --> 00:46:57,518
Speaker 1: Martin when he was managing the Yankees, and I totally

985
00:46:57,558 --> 00:47:01,918
Speaker 1: agree with any indication that that guy was a baseball genius.

986
00:47:01,958 --> 00:47:05,078
Speaker 1: He really was, you know, issues off the field for sure, absolutely,

987
00:47:05,558 --> 00:47:10,118
Speaker 1: and it kind of declined his baseball sharpness if you will,

988
00:47:10,278 --> 00:47:13,198
Speaker 1: in those later years managing. But my goodness, that guy

989
00:47:13,438 --> 00:47:14,958
Speaker 1: was a baseball genius.

990
00:47:15,278 --> 00:47:17,038
Speaker 3: I never got to be around him. I wish I had.

991
00:47:17,518 --> 00:47:19,958
Speaker 1: So that brings us here to our thought of the day, Joe,

992
00:47:20,718 --> 00:47:23,358
Speaker 1: you always finish up with some words of wisdom. Here,

993
00:47:23,438 --> 00:47:24,558
Speaker 1: What do you have for us today?

994
00:47:24,878 --> 00:47:28,558
Speaker 2: Well, it's going extending beyond the baseball field right now,

995
00:47:28,598 --> 00:47:31,078
Speaker 2: just based on the world events and how awful things

996
00:47:31,118 --> 00:47:34,598
Speaker 2: are right now. However, and even though there's a lot

997
00:47:34,598 --> 00:47:38,278
Speaker 2: of bad stuff going on, you still gotta you still

998
00:47:38,278 --> 00:47:40,798
Speaker 2: got to work to unify and band together and find

999
00:47:40,838 --> 00:47:42,798
Speaker 2: solutions to some very difficult problems.

1000
00:47:43,798 --> 00:47:44,398
Speaker 3: We just do.

1001
00:47:44,638 --> 00:47:47,918
Speaker 2: I got two once from Ann Frank and I had

1002
00:47:47,918 --> 00:47:54,398
Speaker 2: the distinct I guess it is pleasure to actually visit

1003
00:47:54,758 --> 00:47:58,798
Speaker 2: the apartment that she lived in above in Amsterdam, and

1004
00:47:59,078 --> 00:48:03,358
Speaker 2: pleasure in the sense that respect ominous feeling that you

1005
00:48:03,398 --> 00:48:07,918
Speaker 2: get walking up into that that room and that grouping

1006
00:48:07,958 --> 00:48:10,358
Speaker 2: of rooms that they had remained silent all day long.

1007
00:48:10,438 --> 00:48:13,478
Speaker 2: In these rooms they could even flush toilets because people

1008
00:48:13,478 --> 00:48:15,638
Speaker 2: were working down below, and they would give themselves up.

1009
00:48:16,598 --> 00:48:19,478
Speaker 2: But she, she said, I don't think of all the misery,

1010
00:48:20,118 --> 00:48:22,358
Speaker 2: but of the beauty that still remains. That was from

1011
00:48:22,398 --> 00:48:24,478
Speaker 2: her and you could imagine a young girl like that

1012
00:48:24,638 --> 00:48:28,158
Speaker 2: having that thought. And then, my guy, we've talked about

1013
00:48:28,158 --> 00:48:32,558
Speaker 2: this before, Colin Powell, that perpetual optimism is a force

1014
00:48:32,638 --> 00:48:34,318
Speaker 2: multiplier that we just got it.

1015
00:48:34,358 --> 00:48:36,958
Speaker 3: We just got to stay, We got to keep seeking.

1016
00:48:36,838 --> 00:48:40,558
Speaker 2: Answers, We got to make hard decisions and try to

1017
00:48:40,558 --> 00:48:44,238
Speaker 2: move this thing forward and do the right thing for everybody.

1018
00:48:44,918 --> 00:48:47,998
Speaker 2: It's just it's just difficult. I'm a news watcher and

1019
00:48:48,038 --> 00:48:51,878
Speaker 2: I guess that's part of my problem. And we all

1020
00:48:51,878 --> 00:48:55,758
Speaker 2: have to be able to somehow come to grips with

1021
00:48:55,798 --> 00:48:58,358
Speaker 2: what's going on and then move it forward. And so

1022
00:48:58,638 --> 00:49:01,198
Speaker 2: optimism is still a big part of this And in

1023
00:49:01,238 --> 00:49:03,078
Speaker 2: spite of all the misery, there is still a beauty

1024
00:49:03,078 --> 00:49:05,678
Speaker 2: that remains that we have to try to bring to

1025
00:49:05,718 --> 00:49:09,078
Speaker 2: the forefront and permeate to rest with. So anyway, in

1026
00:49:09,118 --> 00:49:11,798
Speaker 2: this holiday season, just got to keep moving it forward, man.

1027
00:49:12,278 --> 00:49:15,518
Speaker 2: And is there really difficult moments to get beyond. And

1028
00:49:15,638 --> 00:49:17,598
Speaker 2: we will get beyond them, but we have to come

1029
00:49:17,638 --> 00:49:21,718
Speaker 2: together trying to find unifying solutions to these really dramatically

1030
00:49:21,718 --> 00:49:22,598
Speaker 2: difficult problems.

1031
00:49:23,158 --> 00:49:25,518
Speaker 1: That is a great reminder, Joe, anytime of year, but

1032
00:49:25,638 --> 00:49:28,878
Speaker 1: especially this time of year, because there have been studies,

1033
00:49:28,918 --> 00:49:32,518
Speaker 1: and this is factually true that bad news travels like

1034
00:49:32,638 --> 00:49:36,478
Speaker 1: four times as fast as good news. So you mentioned

1035
00:49:36,478 --> 00:49:38,798
Speaker 1: if you're a newswatcher, and it's hard not to be

1036
00:49:38,958 --> 00:49:42,278
Speaker 1: these days because it's so ubiquitous, but most of it

1037
00:49:42,318 --> 00:49:45,678
Speaker 1: does tend to be negative, and I think you almost

1038
00:49:45,758 --> 00:49:48,038
Speaker 1: have to remind yourself, and the words of man Frank

1039
00:49:48,078 --> 00:49:50,318
Speaker 1: certainly is served better than my words here of the

1040
00:49:50,318 --> 00:49:53,478
Speaker 1: beauty of the world, that what you're getting is sort

1041
00:49:53,478 --> 00:49:57,518
Speaker 1: of it's not a true reflection in terms of percentage

1042
00:49:57,558 --> 00:50:01,278
Speaker 1: of everything that's going on that's negative. It's just the

1043
00:50:01,318 --> 00:50:03,918
Speaker 1: percentage of news that is negative is much higher than

1044
00:50:03,958 --> 00:50:06,678
Speaker 1: what's happening in reality. It's not to diminish those events,

1045
00:50:07,198 --> 00:50:09,678
Speaker 1: but you must have to remind yourself, yeah, that there's

1046
00:50:09,718 --> 00:50:13,238
Speaker 1: also way more good out there that just doesn't get

1047
00:50:13,278 --> 00:50:14,038
Speaker 1: as much attention.

1048
00:50:14,358 --> 00:50:17,878
Speaker 2: Agreed, one hundred percent right, And you know I tend

1049
00:50:17,918 --> 00:50:20,838
Speaker 2: to I see the class half full all the time.

1050
00:50:20,878 --> 00:50:24,398
Speaker 2: And Colin Powell is that his autobiography I read years ago,

1051
00:50:24,478 --> 00:50:27,678
Speaker 2: and I remember that particular phrase about the being a

1052
00:50:27,678 --> 00:50:32,958
Speaker 2: force multiplier, and his is one of his greatest thoughts

1053
00:50:32,958 --> 00:50:33,398
Speaker 2: that I got.

1054
00:50:33,438 --> 00:50:34,838
Speaker 3: It's very simple, which I love.

1055
00:50:35,638 --> 00:50:39,118
Speaker 2: He would give the president his how do you say,

1056
00:50:39,158 --> 00:50:40,918
Speaker 2: I give my best advice and I give him my

1057
00:50:40,918 --> 00:50:45,678
Speaker 2: strongest loyalty, because even in his advice might be it

1058
00:50:45,718 --> 00:50:48,718
Speaker 2: was given but not utilized, and maybe the exact opposite

1059
00:50:48,758 --> 00:50:51,678
Speaker 2: was done and put out there and became the policy.

1060
00:50:51,758 --> 00:50:54,598
Speaker 2: So at that point he after he had given his

1061
00:50:55,958 --> 00:50:58,638
Speaker 2: his best shot to the president regarding what he thought,

1062
00:50:59,558 --> 00:51:03,238
Speaker 2: when the conclusions were drawn, and when the group eventually

1063
00:51:03,398 --> 00:51:05,358
Speaker 2: came to conc illusion, whatever it was put out there,

1064
00:51:05,758 --> 00:51:08,998
Speaker 2: he backed at one hundred percent. So I utilized that

1065
00:51:09,038 --> 00:51:12,638
Speaker 2: in a lot of meetings I had with my coaching staffs,

1066
00:51:12,878 --> 00:51:14,678
Speaker 2: and even I think I utilize it with some players

1067
00:51:14,718 --> 00:51:17,758
Speaker 2: and players meetings. Who's always thought that resonated when you're

1068
00:51:17,758 --> 00:51:21,118
Speaker 2: talking about team and groups and unity. Yeah, we can

1069
00:51:21,118 --> 00:51:23,278
Speaker 2: have some disagreements, but I want I want to know

1070
00:51:23,358 --> 00:51:24,398
Speaker 2: exactly what you're thinking.

1071
00:51:25,198 --> 00:51:26,598
Speaker 3: Tell me what you think now what you've heard.

1072
00:51:26,838 --> 00:51:28,478
Speaker 2: But at the end of this, when we walk outside,

1073
00:51:28,518 --> 00:51:30,158
Speaker 2: we're in front of the group, we have to show

1074
00:51:30,198 --> 00:51:34,598
Speaker 2: the unified front, and so sometimes your opinion is voted down. However,

1075
00:51:34,718 --> 00:51:39,878
Speaker 2: I need you to voice the group opinion at this point.

1076
00:51:40,398 --> 00:51:42,318
Speaker 2: That's going to unify and not divide us.

1077
00:51:42,918 --> 00:51:45,358
Speaker 1: Well said as always we always appreciate here. On the

1078
00:51:45,398 --> 00:51:48,518
Speaker 1: Book of Joe, the best advice of Joe Madden is

1079
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Speaker 1: always good. Great job. We'll see you next time. On

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Speaker 1: the Book of Joe.

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Speaker 3: All right, buddy, love it.

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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.