WEBVTT - James Burrows: Like Father, Like Son 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.200 This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:09.320 Thing from My Heart Radio. You may not know the 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:12.520 name of my guest today, but you certainly know his work. 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.840 In fact, you've probably watched hours upon hours of it. 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:21.560 He's been called the Steven Spielberg of sitcom's, the Willie 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:27.480 Mays of directing, the sitcom Sorcerer. It's the legendary James Burrows. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.800 Burrows is the director of some of the most popular 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:36.720 and acclaimed television shows in history, including Taxi, Cheers, Will 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.400 and Grace, Friends, and Frasier. In his five decades of work, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.280 the eleven time Emmy winner has directed seventy five pilots 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.839 that went to series, including The Big Bang Theory and 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.760 Two and a Half Men, spanning over one thousand hours 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:58.160 of television. He's also the author of a memoir entitled 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.280 Directed by James Burrows, which we counts his incredible career. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.039 Burrows also has an amazing pedigree. He's the son of 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.720 famed radio and theater director Abe Burrows, but Tony and 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.400 Politzer Prize winner whose credits include Guys and Dolls and 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.399 How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. I wanted 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.080 to know what it was like growing up with such 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.920 an accomplished and influential father. My parents were divorced, so 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.720 we live with our mom five blocks away from our dad. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.360 So we'd see our dad probably twice a week, once, 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.400 you know, on a school day for dinner, and then 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.480 on a Sunday for maybe football or something like that. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.040 So he was around in that way. But I al 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:43.840 would like to say that, you know, I was in 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:47.000 the family business. I didn't know anything else. The only 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:48.360 thing I knew is I didn't want to be in 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.400 that business. I didn't want to. I didn't want to 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.000 try to compete with a legend because he was a 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.000 legend in New York City, brought by music. Yeah, Broadway 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.880 musicals and Broadway plays. And my sister and I used 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:02.960 to go when we were thirteen and fourteen and meet 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.240 you know, Truman, Capodi and John Steinbeck and Comdon and 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:11.400 Green and called porter Una. I mean, all these they 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.880 were just older people. They I didn't know. I had 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.720 no idea what boring boring. I like to say my 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:19.840 dad taught me when I didn't know I was learning, 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.720 because he would trundle my sister and I off to 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.480 rehearsals occasionally, and we would sit in the audience because 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:30.040 we're gonna have dinner with him. We would come like 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.399 four o'clock and we sit in the house and see 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.519 him working on stage or a rehearsal hall, and we 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.520 didn't I didn't understand what he did at all. But again, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.680 it was a lot of osmosis at work, latent learning, 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:46.320 the latent learning, Yeah, it's in there, and then he 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.760 winning the back seat with your sister going no, Dad, 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.200 I got a horse right here. His name is It's 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.880 a little dough. Put them in there. No, I never 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:59.040 did that. I never remember time did I did. When 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:03.560 I after college and graduate school, I worked with him 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.840 as a stage manager, so I would inject a couple 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.280 of what I thought were funny things, and he was 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.240 incredibly tolerant of me. I think one of them made 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.520 it in one of his plays. But that was it. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.640 But isn't it funny how in your life it all 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.040 loops around in a way. Because I wanted to ask 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.800 you a question about the nature of casts who have 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.720 roots in the theater and those that don't. A lot 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.600 of theater roots with Kelsey and Hyde Pierce and with 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.120 the Will and grace cast. Isn't it funny? In the 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.960 life of Jimmy Burrows? Did we come back to this, 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.840 which is Megan mollal mean, Megan does how to succeed 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:44.840 with Matthew A long long time ago? Your dad, I 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.320 went to see it, of course, I said, they playhouse. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.560 I thought to where I saw it. I was with dad, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.760 my wife and then my sister's late husband. We're in 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.200 a motor home and a driver and drove it down 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:02.680 and drove drove down Illahoya and it was it was one. Yeah, 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.520 it was wonderful. But then that leads me to I 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.560 want to get back to your schooling. Why go from 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.480 it was political science? And what were you studying at government? 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.320 Studying government? And then you go and you get a 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.320 master's degree in theater. You know, you're in the Yale 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.680 drama program. Why are you trying to run away from 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.400 the family business. I was trying to run away from 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.960 the draft. You know it was it was Vietnam wartime, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.960 and uh, you're probably too young. A lot of us 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.640 didn't believe in the war and that particular one. And 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.720 after Oberlin I got my draft notice, I decided to 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.200 try and postpone it. As long as I could. So 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.640 I went to the Yale School of Drama, where I 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.440 was exposed to all these you know, because if you're 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.760 in there, you have to take a course in directing, acting, playwrighting, 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.440 scenic design, stage manager, all these courses. And I went 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.960 and had a class in directing with Nico Sakaropolis, who 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.479 who went on to run The Williams. And he kind 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.080 of in my eyes to exactly what a director does. 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.000 Because I knew I was an actor, I knew I 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.640 couldn't write plays, so I, you know, I got to 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:09.800 direct a couple of small scenes. I think I did. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.160 I got the horse right here with a couple of students. 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:15.920 I staged that and and then when I got out, 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.760 I still had to take a physical for the Army, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.599 and fortunately I was. They didn't want me, I was. 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.320 I guess I was too funny, you know, So I 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.440 can't have that, I know, God, No, we need discipline. 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.599 And then I started stage managing because as a stage 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.080 manager you direct the understudies. So I got more and 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.760 more practice in doing that, and then I would do 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.280 summer stock productions of The Odd Couple with Stubby k 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:48.080 and Arnold Stangby k who was in the original original 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.120 Guys and Dolls, and you know productions of Never Too 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.640 Late with Bob Cummings. But let me let me just 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.040 say that street Car on Broadway. I considered that one 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.760 of the great years on Broadway because Kate Burton's doing 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.600 Jex Women with Alan Alda and Guys and Telsa's I'm 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.400 Broadly with Nathan and I'll never forget the Banner. Although 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:07.880 we did run for a very long time, it was 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.880 in a huge success. This the banner all wrapped around 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.159 the canopy said this show will run forever. But I 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.880 went to see that show twice and Faith Prince. They 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.840 all made me cry. Walter Bobby playing that role and 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.040 singing rock in the boat and I love that show. 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:28.200 I cried. And Peter Gallaghter Galina Gallagher was sky Masters, Yeah, 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.400 it was a dear friend of mine. Yeah, and then 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.640 all of them, I mean, I love that show. That 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:34.440 was the most funny I've ever had watching a show 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.080 without the producers. I mean, I love Nathan, but then 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.839 Stubby k and you're and you're directing the understudies And 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.839 what did you think directing was back then? And how 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.080 has that changed over the years. Well for you, Directing 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.760 for me was back then you had a script that 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.640 never changed. So I was doing plays. You know, I 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.680 had a couple of plausas week marriage go around, so 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.600 there was a lot of nuance involved in it, a 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.120 lot of you know, I could put in physical bits 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:04.640 when I thought it would help. So I knew I 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.279 had that creative sense. I did in uh ninety eight, 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.160 after you know I had in my career had taken off, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.200 I did a theater production to the man who came 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:18.040 to Dinner with Mahoney because Mahony, Yeah, Mahoney was on 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.280 Frasier and he arranged for me to direct it at Steppenwolf, 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.880 and uh, I put in like four jokes, you know, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:30.160 and George Calfman's daughter came to the show, and I was, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.920 you know, I was concerned. I knew George. I knew 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.000 George through my dad and George Calsan's daughter. And at 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.640 the end she said, I liked your auditions. It was 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.000 so sweet. Usually they hated, but they were they were 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.080 big laughs. So but anyway, so when I was, you know, 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.040 doing summerstock and dinner thing, I was just trying. You 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.000 had to get a play up on its feet in 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.880 a week. So there was a lot of rapid stuff. 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.840 So I found myself people who could think, Yeah, I 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:01.160 found myself more dinner theaters wanted me and or regional 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.560 theorist Coast, East Coast. You know, television is a writer's 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.480 medium too, as in Broadway. Broadway, the playwright is paramount 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.120 in in what I do, the writers are paramount. But 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.320 I have my time along with the actors. As you know, 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.520 I've directed you a few times, and that's the time 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:23.840 when my creative juices come out, and I don't want 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.800 a guy behind me judging, you know what I do. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.280 What I say, I'll move, you know, say the line 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.960 this way before I can see it and say, well, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:35.880 maybe that doesn't work. I don't want a guy behind 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:40.520 me saying no, don't prompt, preempting me. That's totally debilitating 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.079 for a director who would preempt you. Well, I mean 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.880 the writers, No, I know, but when the writers come down, 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:51.880 they see our work, you know, they see what we've passed. Yes, 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.560 I get a pass, and you know I'll never forget. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.280 In a taxi episode I was directing, I had him move. 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.320 I had this move that I thought it was funny, 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.680 and I don't remember who did it, but the actor 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.360 executed it. And then all of a sudden the writer 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.160 turned around to me and said, what the funk was that? 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.200 And so we went on with rehearsal, and after I 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.120 took him aside and I said, if I'm not allowed 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.680 to fail, I'll give you nine good things, but one 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.400 may be bad. But you know, God forbid, he's over 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.600 my shoulder when I'm when I'm trying to do it 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.480 for myself. So you know, everything you think of, you 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.800 think is funny, it's not necessarily funny. In the end, 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.320 you have to, you know, try try it. Yeah, Well, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.960 describe for me the seam of whatever length and whatever 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:47.240 different components takes you from directing Stubby k And we 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.040 were seeing stand ins to your first four ways into Hollywood? 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:56.440 When does Hollywood become your future? In nineteen sixty six, 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.200 my first job on Broadway was as the assistant to 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:04.720 the assistant stage manager on the Broadway production of Breakfast 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.360 at Tiffany's, a musical that my dad wrote based on 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:13.959 Breakfast at Tiffany's. And so as the assistant to the 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:18.000 assistant I was in charge of the actors from Hollywood 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.800 who were going to be in the show. Mary Tyler, Moore, 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:26.599 Richard Chamberlain, Laura Petrie and Dr Kildare, We're going to 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:30.160 be in the production. And it was not my dad's 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.400 best work at all. It was you know, he went 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:38.880 into rehearsal with one act and we opened in Philadelphia 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:43.600 and they had a huge advance sale because of Dr 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:49.480 Kildare and Laura Petrie, and then it was Chamberlain, Dick Chamberlain. Yeah, 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:54.000 and so David Merrick didn't like the show, so he 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:59.880 replaced my dad with Edward Albe. Wow. Wow, an obvious choice. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.200 Let's have Dick chamber and Mary Tyler. We'll cool each 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.280 other's eyes out. Well, they're swimming bobbles of vodka. Yeah, 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.480 I'm sure you wanted George and Martha, you know. So 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.120 then Mark didn't want to go back out of town 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:19.559 with the show, so we played previews and Edward did 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.880 stuff to help the production by putting in Holly's miscarriage. 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.640 This is a Broadway musical. It was just horrible. And 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.400 the audience when we opened in New York for previous 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.679 food and every time Mary would come off stage, I 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.480 would be there and she would wrap her arms around 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.160 me and start crying. She was so devastated by the 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:44.040 audience reaction. And once they night came, Mary closed the show. 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.480 I sat with Mary at Sartie's. We had an awake 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:52.800 at Sarti's till Grant Tinker, her husband arrived, and they 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.600 went off, and then I went to Summer Stock and everything. 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.679 And then in ninety three I was watching television on 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.560 US Saturday night after directing Joan Fontaine in Forty Carrots, 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.160 and I turned on the television. There was a Mary 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.160 Tyler Moore show and I hadn't seen it before, I 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.199 hadn't registered with me before, but I noticed they were 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.200 doing a play. There's a multi camera sitcom, which you know, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.480 it's a it's a play that's filmed. It's proscenium, proscenium, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.560 everything like that. And I said, wow, they're doing twenty 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.640 five minutes in a week and I'm doing two hours 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.640 in a week. I think I can do that. So 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.200 I wrote a letter to Mary Tyler Moore because I 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.800 didn't know Grant that well. And about two weeks later 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.320 I got a letter from Grant Inker saying, we have 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.679 four multi camera sitcoms. We are very interested in theatrical directors. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.920 Would you come out and do one show that was 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.319 February of I said, great, maybe I was going to 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.240 do a New Heart or a Rhoda or a Bob 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.160 Crane show or a Paul Sancho, but said, no, you're 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.080 gonna do a Mary Tyler Moore show. You know. So 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.840 I was thrust into this, into this endeavor I didn't know. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.520 I had to learn. I had to come and observe 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.960 for three months to observe the technical aspectal you know, 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.440 I knew how to talk to actors and stuff like that, which, 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.679 even though it was much simpler back then, I'm sure, yeah, 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.200 it's still something that was foreign too. Yeah, totally foreign. 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:17.840 So I had to learn that. I learned that by 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.240 watching J Sandrich, who was my mentor and to me, 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.720 the king of Sitcom's describe that experience, meaning when you're 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.280 doing it and you've been around successful people, all the 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.440 cylinders are clicking on great shows, how to succeed your dad, 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.800 or these legendary musicals, things you've done, And when you 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.400 were there, did you sit there and go, yeah, I 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:43.160 like this. Okay, you're going to get a courtesy van. 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.679 Back to the telling your furnishing van for Mr. Your 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.400 first shot in television and you're on like the number 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.559 of top five show with the biggest people in television. 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.080 I know, I was scared out of my witch and 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.280 it was it was daunting. You know. You read the 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.440 script around it able as you know, before you rehearse, 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.560 and it was a C minus script and I said, 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.120 the grand tinker in a sea of Danish, I get 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:11.080 a bagel, you know. So I had the script and 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:15.040 in those days, you went down and immediately rehearsed and 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.840 while the writers were rewriting, so you were rehearsing stuff 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.320 on your feet, on your feet that you knew it 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.760 was going to change. So it was like rearranging chickchairs 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.760 on the Titanic. And Mary, Mary hated the script and 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.080 she would complain. I said, hopefully they'll make it better. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.960 And it was called The Neighbors something like that because 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.560 it was Loue moves into Rhoda's apartment because Rhoda had 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.680 spun off to do her own show. So lou moves 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.320 into Rhoda's apartment, so that lou and Mary are living 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.760 together and they're working together. So that was the thrust 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.560 of the show. And uh, you know, I was just 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.920 treading water. I was, you know, five six of the 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.120 best actors on television, and I was a thirty four 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.200 year old Pisha who they probably didn't think I knew 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.160 what I was doing, and I didn't think I knew 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.760 what I was doing. But what happened? You said that 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.280 it was a C plus D script, But I invoked Chekhov, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.200 I invoked Shakespeare just to try to enhance the piece 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.360 and make the piece better. How so, well, in the 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.720 last scene, when Lou figures it's time to move out, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.360 I had his two suitcases there, and I said to 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:24.200 Marry into ed, sit on those suitcases and reminisce like 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.680 you're in the cherry orchard and you're leaving the cherry orchard. 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.000 So they did. And you know, I tried to put 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.800 in some funny stuff, but I never I played by 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.400 the rules of that show. If you're going in as 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.520 a guest director on a show, you gotta play by 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:46.760 the rules of that show, you know, you just because everybody, yeah, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:51.360 you do. And so I I did that. And just 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.760 before the show was shot, I was walking to back 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.040 to my dressing room and Mary came out of her 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.520 trailer and she stopped me and she said, Jim, we 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:05.200 feel our investment and you has worked out. Oh my god, 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.960 I wept. I went back. I wept, And the next 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.480 day I had called from the New Heart Show, from 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.880 the Paul Sanchow, from Bob Crane Show. They wanted me 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.160 to direct. So that literally was the birth of my 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:25.920 television career. Director James Burrows. If you enjoyed conversations with 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:31.200 accomplished directors, check out my episode with Cameron Crowe. Generally, 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.920 not every time, but generally a movie will have your spirit, 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.040 your the movie will have your signature somewhere. Even even 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.520 the movies where, like you know, Penny Marshall came in 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.880 at the last minute and replaced so and so it's 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.880 it's a Penny Marshall movie. The director's personality seeps in Hallelujah. 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.440 And I love playing with that. I love playing with 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.280 like the sensibility and the feeling that the movie is 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.120 gonna give you. Music helps the relationship on the set, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.680 Like when we've been able to work together, it's really 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.960 been wonderful to have like the environmental version of directing 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.119 where we all are together kind of vibing, and there 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.960 are relationships that are separate and the characters are part 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.680 of it and we're doing this thing together. I think 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.760 that feeling gets into the movie. Here the rest of 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:23.240 my conversation with Cameron Crowe in our archives at Here's 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.359 the Thing dot org. After the break, James Burrows tells 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:45.360 us about the casting kismet on Friends. I'm Alec Baldwin 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.040 and you're listening to Here's the Thing. The Emmy winning 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.320 series Cheers ran for eleven seasons, for a total of 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:59.080 two episodes, with James Burrows directing all but thirty five 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.000 of them. I wanted to know how he chooses to 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.760 stay with the show for the length of its run 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.800 as he did with Cheers. Well, it was at a 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:15.080 point where people felt confident enough for me to be 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.359 the permanent director. Did other shows have them, Yeah, I 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.400 think Paul Bogart did a lot of All in the Families, 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.480 and John Richard a lot of Dick Van Dyke shows, 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:27.000 and Jay did The Mary's but nobody did as many 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.119 as I did. And I did it. I did it 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.720 because I love the show. But the people who don't 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.239 know the first show that you do that of the 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:38.520 long runs which one taxi Taxi was created by the guys. 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.200 Two of the guys who created The Mary Tyler Moore Show. 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.080 Jim Brooks and Alan Burns created Mary Tyler Moore. Jim 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:47.240 Brooks and Ed Weinberger. Ed was a writer on the show, 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.399 Stan Daniels and Dave Davis Worthy four who created a 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.119 taxi and they asked me to be the permanent director. 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:58.199 So although once before I did Laverne and Shirley, I 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.639 directed some of them. And after about three shows, Gary 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:07.240 Marshall took me to do you remember ni Ovalas and Nicodell's, 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.800 the two restaurants that were on the paramount, and he said, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.159 would you consider staying with the show? And I, and 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.600 all due respect to you, I I can't. It was 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.440 too it was too it was too crazy. My friend 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.440 was a writer on that show, Dan Olson, Oh my god, 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.480 Dana Wilson was my buddy and I hung out with 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.000 him and he told me, I don't want to pin 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.960 this on Olsen, but someone told me that they're corresponding managers. 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.720 Their respective managers would sit there with stop watches in time, 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.280 how long the tally light was on their client, who 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:40.720 got more camera time. There was such a kind of 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.760 a competitiveness between Penny and Penny, and so I was 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.000 on the show and the ship hit her fan. He 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.880 said it was really not. It was such a successful show, 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.280 and they just it was not anyway. So I told 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.040 Gary I didn't want to do do it, and then one 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.520 tact she came along and I read that script and 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.240 they asked me to commit to it. I said, sure, 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.240 if I'm not mistaken Taxi. At that point, Danza went 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.000 on to do Who's the Boss after Taxi? Correct? So 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.400 you had a menagerie of actors, none of whom were 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:10.880 that famous on their own, you know what I mean. 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.720 De Vito, Lloyd, Judd Hirsch had a Broadway career, but 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.080 not a big TV or film Danza, Mary Lou Kaufman, 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.880 all of them, this is the show that made them 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.359 really famous, that took them to that next level. And 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.040 I was wondering, what's it like for you when you 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:27.680 work with a bunch of people. Do you see them? 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.159 I'm not asking you to disparage anybody, but would you 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.840 say people become big stars in these television shows, do 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.480 they change? Yeah? I mean without naming names, do you 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.960 see the cast change? The cast jelled for me? That 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.879 was again I talked about that as an interplanetary cast. 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:47.119 There are there are people. You know, Andy was a 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.639 comic and and the bravest comic I've ever seen in 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:55.200 my life. And Tony was a boxer, croner and a croner. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:01.600 And so my job, as I talked about in the book, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.600 is to create a homogeneous group of people who are 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.639 all in a lifeboat. Everybody has their own oars and 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:11.320 pulls it intoandem. And so it was that was my 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:16.200 first big show. And it was difficult on that show 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:21.679 because there were so many eccentricities. Andy Kaufman had day 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.719 night reversal and didn't come into one, but he had 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.480 a photographic memory, so he didn't you know, he knew 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.800 his part when he came in. You know, Jim Brooks, 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.040 the writer was off doing starting over that movie. He 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.760 was writing it, and so we had all these things 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.680 that you had to juggle, and so it was very 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.919 difficult for me. But I think there's some of my 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.960 best work. Some of the funniest shows I've ever did 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.560 are on war done on taxi. I think, what does 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.919 the yellow light mean? The Reverend Gym show when he 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.600 becomes a cabbyast goes down in history as maybe the 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.880 biggest laugh I've ever directed. And so I don't know 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.119 if they, Well, look who who would you think be 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:04.119 the movie star at that show? Danny DeVito. I had 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.000 a wonderful time on the show. I learned a lot 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.040 and it's the moment that I cemented my relationship with 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:14.040 the Charles brothers because the Charles brothers were producers on 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.600 that show. So they had a difficult task in coordinating 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.560 the writing because Jim wasn't around all the time and 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:22.840 when he came, he would say he wanted it this way, 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.560 and then Ed would see that and say, no, I 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.080 want it this way. So it was it was difficult. 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.520 It turned out to be a wonderful show. But Glenn 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:31.440 a Less had as difficult a time as I did, 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.520 and that's where we became really close because we had 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.000 the same agent, and he said, we have to do 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:42.920 our own show. I'm wondering, was there a difference for you? Again, 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.639 without disparaging anybody by any means, was there just a 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.800 difference for you with a theater based cast Kelsey, Hype, 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.320 Pierce and so forth, and the cast of Will and Grace, 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:55.720