WEBVTT - My Ears Are Ringing 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.840 Call It what It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington, 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:06.760 an iHeartRadio podcast. 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.640 So everyone listening, I hope this is I'm gonna give 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:20.160 it a whirl. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:22.439 Okay, tell me what you think. 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.119 Hello, Hello, Hello, Call It Crew. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.960 Was that good? That was pretty good? 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:33.280 You know what, It's got. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:34.040 A little groove in it. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.159 Yeah, it does. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:36.600 I want to shake it up. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.000 Yeah, I'm feeling kind of like sexy all of a sudden. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.840 Thanks for letting me try that on for size. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.800 Oh my gosh, I think now it's it's imperative that 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:47.559 we take turns. 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.760 Maybe we do. I don't know. It's hard, it's yours, 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:56.040 it's yours. No, it's ours, it's yours. Well, this one, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.960 this episode, Call It Crew, I'm gonna talk about some 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.200 thing that I actually have not really talked about before, 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.399 definitely have not talked about in detail, and we wanted 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:10.839 to make a special episode about it and have someone 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.959 on that was an expert because I have since discovered 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.800 that there are millions and millions and millions of people 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:23.000 also diagnosed with this and it felt very lonely when 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.120 I first realized I had it. And it's okay, So 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:27.759 we're just gonna we're gonna talk about Jess. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:29.600 I was gonna say, they're gonna have a lot of guesses. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:31.399 It's gonna be really traumatic. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:38.800 Yeah, no, it's not. Okay. Two ish three, maybe twoish 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.760 years ago, I was watching Ghostbusters and there are a 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.280 lot of silent parts in it. And I turned to 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:50.080 Matt and I said, is the TV buzzing? I was 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:51.880 very confused and he was like no. I'm like, do 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.240 you hear that ringing in your ear? And he was like, no, 0:01:55.320 --> 0:02:00.040 I don't. And long story short, I realized that I 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.200 I had something called Tonight's which is and I still 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.680 have it to this day, which is a constant noise. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:09.360 Actually I don't have it. You can have it in 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.200 one ear or the other ear. I only have it 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.640 in my right ear. I have it right now. I 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:22.280 can always hear it. And it was very distressing to 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.360 me because I realized, after a few days, oh, I 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.000 still hear this constantly. I'm not sure this is something 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.240 that's going to go away. And I have to say 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:38.520 that I was really devastated over it. I heard it 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.360 very loudly a lot. I found it very hard to parent. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.080 I was so self conscious. I felt like I was 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.560 going a little crazy, and I ended up doing a 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.560 hearing test and finding out that I also had some 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.960 hearing loss. Apparently I am have the hearing of someone 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:02.520 who is more like sixty years old and found that 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.040 news very distressing. And then I was told that Tonight's 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.120 could be caused by some sort of hearing loss I 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.480 don't need right now. I don't need a hearing aid, 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.160 although I'm sure I may need one at some point, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.000 maybe in my forties, and I'm going to rock that, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.880 by the way. Everyone but that it could also be 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:21.600 caused by a tumor, so I had to go for 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:23.800 an MRI. It was a whole thing where they had 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:25.480 to make sure that I didn't have a tumor and 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:30.160 I did not have a tumor on my scan, and 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:32.880 then I had to learn that this was something that 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:34.639 wasn't going to go away and I had to live 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.800 with it. And it's taken me some time, and I've 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.480 learned that after the pandemic especially, But I want to 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.040 ask our amazing expert on about this. That more and 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:49.280 more young people quote unquote have come forward with saying 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.160 that they have Tonightis and being diagnosed with it, and 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.440 I want to talk about it, because honestly, it was 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.120 not something that I knew a lot about and I 0:03:58.200 --> 0:03:59.720 kind of want to get into it and for anyone 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.520 listen that has vertigo also can be another symptom of it. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:05.840 I just think it would be really nice to feel 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.960 comforted by knowledge and stories. 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.600 This has never come up in our friendship, only when 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.279 we started working on the podcast, and obviously multi layer 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.440 aspects of who we are come to light. And another 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.440 one of the producers on the show also has experienced 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:29.600 this and it was incredibly interesting to hear you two 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.040 talk about it the way that you reported how you felt, 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.080 what you felt when you felt it, and then also 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.359 obviously just the bigness of it that I had. I 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:41.080 had no idea what was happening in your life. So 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.000 today we have an expert. Her name is Joey Ramenie 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.760 and she is a trained vestibular audiologist and a national 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:54.000 best selling author. She is also the founder and director 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.960 of Seeking Balance International. She supports people from all over 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.640 the world on how to change their brain body with 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:06.159 the neuroplasticity recovery process. She is from Melbourne and she 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.719 is here today with us to discuss all and I'm 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.200 so excited to learn more this. I feel like this 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:13.239 is a learning of journey. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:21.080 Hi Joey, Hello Joey, Hi, Hi, welcome to the pod. 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.880 Call it what it is. We are so excited to 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.839 have you. I'm personally so excited to have you on. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:35.800 I'm delighted to be invited. So sunny Australia, warm vibes. 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.040 So I want to dive in a little bit because 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.480 when I was first diagnosed with tonight is what I 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.800 was told was that the sound that I was hearing 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.360 is not a sound that actually really exists and is 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.120 something my brain. This is what I was told, but 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:01.080 I don't know, was just something my brain was making up, 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:02.840 basically imagining. 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.360 There's so many different ways to describe tinatus. It is 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.279 it's a sound that is generated inside of our body 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:15.240 that nobody else can hear. And it could be sounds 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.760 and mechanically generated like if you think about just even 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:21.440 popping your elbow or your knee, so it could be 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.080 inside the ear. There's tiny little bones and muscles, so 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:25.839 that is a type of tinatus, which is like a 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.840 mechanical generated sound. But what you're referring to there is 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.599 there's other biological events happening. So every single moment of 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.599 the day, there's a lot of neurons firing in terms 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.760 of our thoughts, our emotions, just making sense of the world, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.680 you know, sensing the wind and the pressure of the 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.560 chair or the clothes we're wearing. So all of that 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.680 neurological activity also has the potential to create kind of 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.800 sound in the brain, in the auditory cortex that we 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:58.080 become aware of. And that's why often when we're experiencing 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.840 chronic stress, so we're just really busy, we can hear 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.680 this white static in our head and it's like the 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.800 brain is like fizzing and buzzing like a disco So 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.640 it's real, it's happening. The question of whether we hear 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.679 it or not I put down to this filter system, 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.800 so the brain is actually looking for okay, is this 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.920 useful information? Is a boring not relevant? So if I 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.640 hear the washing machine or the fridge whirring, often we 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.840 filter that out because we just know it's not making 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:32.680 our life better by noticing those sounds. I often think 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.200 about the body sensations as like little messages from our soul. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.600 You know. The body is kind of the sacred filter 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:44.520 as we're living through this cosmic life, and the body 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:46.520 is essentially saying, hey, you might want to pause and 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.840 slow down. I've got some things to digest, you know, 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.320 I've got some difficult conversations to have, or I've got 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.880 this stock take I need to do in life. So 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.120 sometimes I think the tinatus can actually be the body's 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.480 way of drawing us inwards and asking us to pause 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.680 and slow down a little bit for any myriad number 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:08.000 of reasons. But it can also just be a false alarm. 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.480 So the sound comes in, we get a shock, and 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.400 then someone freaks us out and says, oh my god, 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.000 you can't cure it. You're gonna have it forever. And 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.520 then that just generates its own little panic cycle, which 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.760 means it slips through the filter. We keep noticing it, 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.080 and we keep going, oh my god, is it there? 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:22.440 Is it? There? 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:22.880 Is it there? 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.680 And it's kind of just a false alarm cycle that 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:27.440 we have to unwind. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.880 That's what I when I first had it, I was 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.800 definitely looking for it all the time because I was 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.480 hoping that it had gone. I was hoping that had gone. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.600 And a doctor told me that it really helped me. 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.880 He said, listen at some point, you will hear it 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.520 a lot less because it's like when you wear clothes, 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.720 a sensation of clothes on your body. You don't feel 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.600 it anymore, right, You're not looking for that sensation, and 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.360 it will be something that your senses sort of filter out. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.120 So I can hear it right now, but it's much 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.120 much quieter, and through my day I can't really I 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.040 don't pay attention to it anymore. However, I know for 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.839 other people there are different versions of these sounds, right, 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.840 So I've heard that sometimes it can sound like a 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:16.240 worshing sound, and my tonights is it sounds like that. 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.280 You know when you leave a concert and it's like 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.280 that high kind of just you've probably had that feeling 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.280 you leave a loud concert and there's like it. It 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.040 almost sounds like yeah yeah. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.680 So, as the person sort of on the outside of 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.680 this for a second, I just want to catch myself 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.000 up and maybe catch other people listening up. Can we 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.760 just take a moment to go to the origin story 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.080 of it, because obviously, Camilla, you had a life before 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.440 it and then there was a recognition of its presence. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.880 So tell me about that. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.320 This was very soon after the pandemic. I had a 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:54.160 young child, and I, you know, we've talked on the 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.839 pot about stress and anxiety and all those things. When 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.920 I'm hearing you talk and it's about like a sign 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.400 at your body, maybe like hey, stop, there's something going on. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.360 I think that I was diagnosed with some hearing loss 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:09.640 right because I had to go have a I talked 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.320 about how I had to go have a hearing test 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.439 and I have the hearing of like a sixty year old. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:19.679 So I understand that it could be purely from hearing loss. However, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.040 I do think that it was also triggered by stress 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.280 for me. And I heard that more young people were 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:31.559 diagnosed with tonight as after the pandemic. Is that true. 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.640 Yeah, there's so many factors at play, but yes, and 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.720 also chronic dizziness, which is the other. So these are 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.240 both invisible symptoms generated from the inner ear. So that's 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:47.000 kind of my geeky realm. So chronic dizziness, chronic brain fog, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.679 even visual spotting and dotting like from using lots of screens, 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.400 from lots of zoom. And yeah, all the stresses of 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.320 the pandemic and the lockdowns and homeschooling and just the 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:02.800 compounding layers of life demands. I think it genuinely has 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.520 impacted our sensory system and our brain's capacity to juggle everything. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.400 I was told that it is not curable, and that 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:15.160 is what was very maddening to me early on. What 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:16.080 would you say about that? 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.480 Well, I can actually feel my blood boiling, like, this 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.920 is why I have seeking balance and do what I do, 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.600 because it's it's unfair to say that it's not true, 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:32.439 it's inaccurate. As these beautiful biological beings that we are, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.160 we are constantly in dynamic change like no, like we 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:39.360 literally have cells dying and replenishing on three seven ten 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.760 day cycles. We are being remade all the time and reborn. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.920 So nothing is static, nothing is forever. And the sounds 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.640 that our body makes and the way we interpret them 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:54.000 is such a dance. It is such a maneuverable, beautiful 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.640 dance that we participate in. So if I concentrate on 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.640 my tenetus all the time, if I worry about it, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.719 if I focus on it, if I pay attention to it, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.079 my brain actually says, Okay, Team Joey's really interested in this. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.199 She's studying it all the time, she's talking about it, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.920 she's thinking about it. So let's give her more neurological 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.439 attention to this sound. We'll give her more neurons, We'll 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.800 give her more, and then she'll be able to better 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.240 study it. So I'm actually participating in the tinatus sound 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.880 by directing all of that focus and attention, and I 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.040 get that biological dance. It responds to me and gives 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.200 me more. I've had tinatus by the way, so I 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.920 get it. On the other hand, what I do with 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.000 my rock steadic community and people who are using neuroplasticity 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.560 and this holistic way of approaching it is that we 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.360 understand that, Okay, the body is talking to me, but 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.320 it's usually not about the tinatus itself. You can think 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.880 about it like the smoke and the fire. So if 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.040 your house is on fire and you're just obsessed about 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.960 the smoke, you miss the fire. So underneath the tinatus 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.440 there's usually a conversation, which could be am I actually 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.840 getting enough time to myself? Am I prioritizing everybody else's needs? 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.960 And I'm falling way back second? You know, am I 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.959 just the cook? Am I the taxi? Am I? Am 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:09.880 I in the right job? Am I in the right marriage? 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.320 So sometimes it's about really pausing and saying, am I 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:17.920 actually getting my physical, mental, emotional, spiritual needs met? And 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.280 even more importantly, do I know what brings me enjoyment 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.400 and pleasure? Am I actually telling my brain, hey, focus 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.280 on all those moments I feel grounded? Because if I'm 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.440 very much paying attention to my feet, am I pulvis 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.520 and dropping into what feels nice and comfortable? I get 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.920 more of that neurological activity. So I'm shaping my internal 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.560 experience of the day by how I'm in communication with 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.760 my body. So this mind body very intimate connection. On 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.160 a side note, the mind body is essentially the one 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.439 thing there is no disconnect. So yeah, it's about really 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.840 participating in how we are shaping and crafting the interior 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.520 landscape of our mind body neurology. So building these sensory 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.600 maps is exactly what I do for a living. So yes, 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.120 it's changeable. I don't actually think tentatus needs a cure. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.120 I think it comes and goes at the perfect time 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.520 for us in life. And it's not actually a disease 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.840 or a diagnosis per se. I would say it's more 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.480 of a healthy biological event that we participate in. 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:41.680 I have so many questions so when I first could 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.040 hear it, I found it so distressing that if somebody 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.800 had told me trying not to concentrate on that, it 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.080 was all that I felt like a vicious cycle of like, 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:53.960 don't concentrate on that. Now you're hearing it. Now you're 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.920 making it worse your approach to it. I know, I'm 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.200 sure it's you can't go through it all obviously on 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.160 just a podcast. But what are some of the first 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.320 things you do to help people with it? 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.760 Yeah? Well, first and foremost, honestly, I think it's important 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.080 to freak out and focus on it and actually go 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.360 through that rite of passage because in essence, we all 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:18.440 do that, all of us, me too. So just to 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.520 really acknowledge and honor that it's okay to focus on it, 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.200 worry about it, all of that is a sign that 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.320 I care about myself, that it's all coming back to 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.160 well being in self care. So different people will spend 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.880 shorter or longer amounts of time in that phace. Some 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.960 people will literally spend eight years, others are week and 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.200 they move through that really quickly and they're like, Okay, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.760 what can I do? So the second bit would be 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:47.600 actually get accurate information you know, don't necessarily believe your doctors. 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.280 What they were teaching us in university twenty thirty forty 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.400 years ago is different to what we know today. So 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:53.880 there is there are myths. 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.160 What are some of those myths that you could that 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:58.880 you can't cure it? Okay? 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.680 Is not necessarily associated with hearing loss. You can have 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:07.480 tinatus and absolutely perfect hearing. You can have terrible hearing 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.680 loss and no tinatus. They're independent events. 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:16.040 If I was if the tenatus is from or tonights 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.120 is from hearing loss though, can it still be cured? 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.680 Yes? The tinatus itself is a neurological signal. So your 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.320 neurons have got these little fingertips that are sending electro 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.120 chemicals along these neural pathways literally through your body and brain. 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:32.960 It's not just the brain, it's not just the years, 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:37.680 it's the entire system. And one of those neural patterns 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.760 or neural maps is generating a sound. And what happens 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.200 is when we change our relationship to the sound, which 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.240 is part of the rock steady process. I walk people 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:51.280 through and it's not straightforward, you know, it's the full package, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.760 It takes time. It takes work, but as we change 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.680 our relationship to that neural map, we can essentially make 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.400 it louder or make it softer. And we're in the 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.560 driver's seat. So right now I can actually tune into 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.040 my tenetus and like if I want to hear it, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.160 I can or I cannot. So I begin to actually 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.440 be the queen of my kingdom, and I'm choosing how 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.160 I shape the internal landscape. So a lot of it's 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.560 about getting that accurate information about what is it, how 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.400 am I participating in what's going on between my brain 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.440 and body, and where do I have choice and where 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.639 do I actually have to surrender because there's nothing I 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.800 can do, so that the letting go and the surrender 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:36.040 is certainly equally important. We can't control it all. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:42.080 I know from reading that some people have it so loud. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.159 I've heard that people it sounds almost like a jet 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.800 taking off. Yeah, So for the people that have it 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.399 that loud, that extreme all the time, because it's not 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:58.320 how mine has manifested, are you able to help people 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.080 that have had it that extra Yes? 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:05.600 The answer is yes, And part of it is we 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.560 need to get back into the body. Right If we 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.879 focus heavily on whatever's going on between the ears, we 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.480 do end up keeping ourselves in a nervous system state 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.639 of flight freeze or fam so we end up in 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.640 these trauma looping and from that place it's really hard 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:24.560 to use neuroplasticity to disengage the tinator's signal and build 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.560 a new map. So getting into the body and body 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.880 scanning is really really primal. We have to get back 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.119 into our feet, into our legs, into our pulverse, and 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:37.560 essentially move the attention and focus away from above the shoulders. 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.119 So that can be really really nourishing and supportive, especially 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.560 if people do have significant traumas, and the tinatus is 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.679 like a byproduct of that. So getting back into the 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.639 body is really important. So that was what we call 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.800 bottom up therapies, sensing and feeling in the body itself. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.520 Top down aspects is when we go okay. So I 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.520 have a lived example of this at a really really 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.760 busy day, I think it was pre Christmas shopping Da 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.680 da da da dada. Came home, just crashed out on 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.199 the couch and was like whoa super loud tenatus, like 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.639 you know, nine out of ten, and it sounded like 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:15.800 I was hiking in Tasmania in this incredible forest and 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.080 I'd found a little tin shed and there was really 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.359 really really strong rain, really heavy rain, and I'm in 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.399 a tiny shed. The rain is pounding down on this 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:28.960 like corrugated tin iron roof and it's extremely loud. So 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.800 the top down process there was rather than freak out, 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.640 I lay on the couch and visualized hiking and being 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.120 in the sanctuary of this little tin shed while there's 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.280 a torrential downpour. So what that means is I had 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:44.479 emotionally associated the sound with a nature hike and a 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.800 sanctuary and a pause. And so with that emotional association 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.159 with the actual sound, I'm not pushing it away. I'm 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:53.960 not trying to get rid of it. I'm actually welcoming 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.919 it in and creating a creative imaginal space where my 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.439 body has a place. So it's like it's bringing in 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.960 that sense of Okay, this sound belongs here right now, 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:06.600 and before you know it, you're rough daydreaming, you forget 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.040 about it, and it just fizzles into the background. So 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.560 we have these skills and tools that we can start 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.800 to employ and use once we're not really really lodged 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.960 in that place between the ears and the midbrain where 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.680 we're stuck in the fight flight freeze form trauma patterns. 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:29.000 That's a really really difficult place to be and the 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.000 you know, the longer we're there, the more we get. 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.600 I think the consequences of consequences through the chronic stress 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:40.000 patterns and cycles, which actually goes beyond just poor digestion 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:44.879 and sort of skin issues and into relationship breakdowns, difficulty 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.760 with Korea, like not unable to attend work. You know, 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:53.240 there really are so many debilitating consequences if these chronic 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:58.280 and visible symptoms are not attended to with holistic care. 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.000 You know, it's not just about is and people are 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:03.399 not making it up. They are real neural signals that 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:05.520 need real neural support. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:09.439 I love this conversation so much because one thing that 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.879 really helped me is I was trying to describe the 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.080 noise to my husband one time because I was like, 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.119 I just wish you could hear it and just experience 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.440 this for a second. And in trying to describe it, 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.200 I said, you know what it sounds like when it's 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.760 really loud, It sounds like there's crickets outside at night. Well, 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.520 I actually love that sound in the evening, sitting on 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.879 a porch when I, you know, go visit family in Kentucky, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.960 and I love that sound. It's a very soothing sound 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:41.840 to me. And the second I said that, I was like, Oh, 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.800 it's actually no I can kind of work with that. 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.879 And so sometimes when I'm stressed out and I hear it, 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.639 I always I kind of think, how you thought, like, okay, 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.680 the rain and the shed, I think to myself, Okay, 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.280 I'm on the porch outside it's a crickets at night, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.520 and it changed my relationship a little bit with the 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.480 sound itself. I have noticed, and I want to know 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.760 your opinion on this. I've noticed certain things that I 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.439 feel like can make it worse, But I don't know 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.959 if it's just in my head. For example, lack of 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.960 sleep the next morning, if I drink too much alcohol 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.040 the night before, and if I eat too much salt, 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.439 And I don't know if those are things that you 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.560 have heard people say before. I'm sure you probably have. 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:33.280 But are there literal things that we're ingesting in our 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.639 body sleep? I can see how that relates to the stress, 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:38.280 but are things that we're ingesting in our body that 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:40.520