1 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. 2 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Wisnal and I'm Tracy Halloway. So, Trady, I 3 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: guess it's kind of a cliche like every time we 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: do a crypto episode. Crypto markets have been pretty volatile lately, 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: but actually right now they have been extremely volatile, and 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: it's not just a it's not just a cliche. Right now, Yeah, 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: people are talking about crypto winter, so I guess a 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: redux of what we saw back in where we had 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: the big fall and then it took a very very 10 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: long time for people to get excited and interested in 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: crypto again. But that said, I do feel like this 12 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: period of time is it feels a little bit different 13 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: because even though the spot prices of a bunch of 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: different things are falling, it seems like there's still a 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: ton of money flooding into the space. And maybe that'll 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: change eventually, but for the time being, it feels like 17 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: there's still a lot of interest. Yeah, I think that's true. 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: It also feels like there's you know, twenty eighteen en 19 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: it felt like it was the only thing that people 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: really talked about with crypto was the price. And I 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: still think like the price of the coins is still 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: like the part that captures people's attention the most. But 23 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: I guess there is this idea of like, okay, like 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: there's some new Web three point oh Web three that's 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: getting built out, and it's being built towards something, And 26 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone is that great at describing what 27 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: it's going to look like or what this new version 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: of the Internet is. But I guess that that it's 29 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: I think it's sufficiently captured people's imagination enough that even 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: if the price were to stay depressed, people want to 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: keep building it out and turning it into something a 32 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: little bit more tangible beyond speculation. Well, this is one 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: of the remarkable things about crypto. I feel like it's 34 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: almost like every time you turn around, there's a new 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: use case that gets invented, And you're right. It is 36 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: weird to think that a few years ago, we weren't 37 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: talking about Web three point oh, we weren't talking about 38 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: defy at all. We were just talking about bitcoin mostly 39 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: as a unit of payment, maybe an inflation hedge, digital goal, 40 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And already in the space of 41 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: a few years, the narrative changes so quickly the narrative 42 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: change is super fast. I sometimes go back and forth 43 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: whether that's a good sign or whether it's just like, oh, 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: here's our new thing because the last thing didn't materialize. 45 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: But nonetheless it's ongoing. You know you mentioned in the beginning, 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: and I think this is really key is that, yes, 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: there is this decline in prices that we've seen, but 48 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: on the flip side, it feels like there's an intense 49 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: amount of investment and building and money pouring into like 50 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: creating new things. And so I really want to explore 51 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: this tension more by talking about like what's really going 52 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: on between the price and then you know there's sort 53 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: of like actual activity in this space, because they really 54 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: are two different things. Yeah, absolutely, let's do it. Okay, 55 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: I am very excited. Oh wait, wait, there's one more 56 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: thing I want to say. You know what, one thing 57 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: that's really weird about talking about crypto is you're gonna 58 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: have to narrow it down one weird thing about talking 59 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: about crypto. There are many weird things. There's one more thing, 60 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: which is that so many of the best people in 61 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: the space are pseudonymous, like I don't know who they are. 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: There's like all like these like incredible like experts that 63 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: I've learned a ton from over the years, and I 64 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: literally have no idea who they are. And unlike tread 65 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: fi like pseudonymous teams, pseudonymous founders, pseudonymous investors, people are 66 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: just an avatar, you know, maybe a frog, maybe an 67 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: anime character, maybe something like that could be like these 68 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: really important voices to listen to the space. Yeah, it's 69 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: always interesting when you're you're getting really good crypto information 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: from like like digital picture of an ape, a drawing 71 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: of a monkey. Yeah, exactly right. All right, well today 72 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: we are going to be speaking to a frog, but 73 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: we're going to be speaking to a maybe a colleague 74 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: of them. I am very excited. We're going to bring 75 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: speaking to Eva Balen. She is the director at the 76 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: Graph Foundation, and she is an e girl at the 77 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: Girl Capital, an amorphous crypto investment collective whose members include 78 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: various handles that people might see at crypto Twitter, like 79 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: at loom dart and at Digen Spartan and at Crypto 80 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: cat VC. I'm just looking at their website and Eva, 81 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: who is not pseudonymous. So Eva, thank you very much 82 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: for coming out odd lot, Thank you so much for 83 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: having me excited to chat. So wait, First of all, 84 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: I used to be in some discord that was like 85 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: the egirl Capital discord, and now I'm not in it anymore. 86 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: Did I get kicked out or did it disappear like 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: what happened? Oh no, I'm not sure. Maybe we should 88 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: talk to our resident discord owner of the cat in 89 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: the Hasmath suit. But we did have a public chat 90 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: that was just sort of for our unity to come 91 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: around share information. Alright, well, somehow I'm not in it. 92 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: The cat is at c L two oh seven. But 93 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: more seriously, like what is the girl Capital? Yeah, so 94 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: first we started off as just you know, a few 95 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: and nons, and we quickly realized that the scope that 96 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: we were covering in our interests, um you know, we 97 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: could do some damage. We could either start to invest 98 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: or um you know, start to get more involved in 99 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,559 Speaker 1: the way we were already involved in Web three, which 100 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, as you mentioned, I'm director of the foundation 101 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: at the Graph. We've got a few members who are 102 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: leaders of projects, so Scoopy Trooples, a CEO of Alcomics. 103 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: We've got another guy named DevOps who leads Saddle Finance. 104 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: We've got a few traders, a few security engineers. So 105 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,679 Speaker 1: we realized that with this breadth of experience, we actually 106 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: have something very unique to offer that wasn't consistent with 107 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: typical investment funds in UM Web two or in Wall 108 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: Street UM, and not even consistent with Web three, where 109 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: we don't have any LPs UM and we operate quite independently. 110 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: So UM even every deal, you know, not every member 111 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: participates in, and we actually um you know, only agree 112 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: to you know, take on an egirl d if we're 113 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: all kind of in consensus. So I mean, I have 114 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of questions already, but maybe just to begin with, 115 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: could you could you maybe describe your your membership a 116 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: little bit more? And I guess who are the types 117 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: of people that would join something like egirl Capital versus 118 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: going down the route of traditional crypto investment, and what 119 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: is it that they get out of this particular organization 120 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: versus again, more traditional forms of investment. And I guess 121 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: my overarching question is also how do you actually decide 122 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: what to invest in and coordinate given that you're dealing 123 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: with a group of disparate people, some of whom, as 124 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: Joe pointed out in the intro, are pseud aotonomous yes 125 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: and answer your first question. You know, the way we 126 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: came together was again very kind of organic, and a 127 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: lot of us have full time jobs that are different. 128 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: So you know, I have a full time job as 129 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: a builder, um. Others you know might be trading or 130 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: running other investments full time. And so for us it 131 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: was like, how can we come together in this way 132 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: that is organic. We don't have some quota or some 133 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: expectations from LPs, but still provide value. And so for 134 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: us that it's much more of a choice. We aren't 135 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: sort of behold into any expectations and even our investments 136 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, aren't again meeting some kind of quota per year. 137 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: So um, we've been around for about a year now 138 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: and we've made two million dollars about two million dollars 139 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: worth of investments across ten different projects UM. And really 140 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: our priority is to invest in critical decentralized primitives of 141 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: web three UM and kind of you know, the metaverse 142 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: meets defy. So a lot of our projects, um, you 143 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: know are actually an f T based something like yat 144 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: um or you know, investing in actually art or unisocks, 145 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: as you you know might have seen. We startingly believe 146 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: in um veblin goods and the ability that you know, 147 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: for goods representing early defy um like unisocks you know, 148 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: are likely to increase in value long term. UM. But 149 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: we're also investing in a lot of really critical protocols 150 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: that are going to fundamentally change technology and innovation. So UM, 151 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: things like connects, which is a layer two protocol that 152 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: connects literally connects between different layer twos on ethereum UM, 153 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: or Radical, which is sort of a GitHub replacement a 154 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: way to have open source code collaboration. UM. So really 155 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: we are motivated by what are the best projects, what 156 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: would make the most impact, and what's most aligned with 157 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: Web three. I just want to ask about the coordination 158 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: portion of it, Like how do you actually go about 159 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: identifying and evaluating potential investments. Yeah, so all of us 160 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: are in different sub communities, so typically, you know, there 161 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: might be one or two members of the girl that 162 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: are kind of leading that deal. Maybe it was, um, 163 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, a project they've already been working with or 164 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: got connected with, and then we'll start doing our own 165 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: internal due diligence. UM. I'm excited to say we now 166 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: have a few interns we didn't have that here ago UM, 167 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: but they often will help us do research, whether that's 168 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: looking at on chain metrics, maybe comparing against other projects UM. 169 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: And again, because we're so deep in the space, a 170 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: lot of us have expertise, whether it's you know, security 171 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: or smart contracts or business that we can kind of 172 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: bring to to each deal. UM. But I wouldn't say 173 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, quite the most traditional due diligence process 174 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: as hedge funds that you're used to seeing. Is there 175 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: a pooled capital element of it? Like is there a 176 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: pot that you and these fellow your fellow members and 177 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: put money into. And I'm just curious, like are they 178 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: anonymous to you as well? Most of them? So first question, 179 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,239 Speaker 1: we don't have a potum, although we have been considering 180 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: growing into a doubt formally on chain um where right now, 181 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: the way we behave is per deal, so you know, 182 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: we kind of bring it to the group. Anyone who 183 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: wants to participate, you know, gets a cut or you know, 184 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: depending on kind of the breakdown or interest, and we 185 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: typically will um, you know, bring it on as an 186 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: ego deal if there's enough interest from the group. If 187 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: there isn't enough interest, you know, again, we have our 188 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: own statures in the community, so often someone will do 189 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: an angel investment or maybe even go work with the 190 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: project directly. Um. What was your second question again? To 191 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: what degree? Like, do you mostly know your colleagues as 192 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: a nons or have you like are there some there 193 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: that you still don't know who they are? Oh? No, 194 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: they're fully ant me. Um. I've met a few of 195 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: them in person. UM. I know you know a few 196 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: of their first names, but otherwise you know, I I 197 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: don't know very much about them. And that's kind of 198 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: the beauty of it. You know. Part of the Web 199 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: three and cryptovision is how do we actually utilize pseudonymity 200 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: in a more productive way. So you know, DJs have 201 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: been doing this for years. You know, almost every DJ 202 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: has their own alias or alter ego and they get 203 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: to then create that sub community or sub brand. And 204 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: so similarly with crypto, you know, you can participate in 205 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: a protocol in a sort of gig economy style. And 206 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: why do you need that to be tied to your 207 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: birth identity? Um? When actually you can start to create 208 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,479 Speaker 1: your own alter ego on chain that might be associated 209 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: with you know, a cat or a monkey. Um. And 210 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: maybe you're only you know, participating in this one protocol, 211 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: and then maybe you have another identity for a different one. 212 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about David Solomon and DJ soul Um. So sorry, 213 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: he might be an E girl, he might be yeah, 214 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: who knows. Well, okay, So again this is one of 215 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: those conversations is just throwing up more and more question. 216 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: But two things. One y E girl, and I guess 217 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: it's a really stupid question. Are most of your members 218 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: female or was there a desire there to get more 219 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: females on board with crypto? And then secondly, what's the 220 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: benefit of pseudonymity? Because when I think of crypto and bitcoin, 221 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: I always think, well, this is sort of attention at 222 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: the heart of crypto. On the one hand, it's transparent 223 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: and traceable and you can see all the transactions on 224 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: a blockchain and things like that. But on the other hand, 225 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily tied to a single identity, and so 226 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: you are able to do anonymous transactions. So I guess 227 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is what's the benefit of preserving 228 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: that pseudonymity of investors. The meme of E girl, I 229 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: believe came out of more anime and hent culture um 230 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: as I'm sure you've seen, you know, things like v 231 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: tubing where people are literally creating cartoon images of their 232 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: faces and then going on YouTube and you know, doing 233 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: a show has become extremely popular or even streaming, and 234 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: so we kind of tapped into this idea of you know, 235 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: anime and m cartoon characters you know, should also be 236 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: taken seriously as much as suits. Um in a sense, 237 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: we kind of present this anti suit culture or anti 238 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: suit meme. And I really personally related to that because 239 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: I used to be a management consultant in New York 240 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: and you know, being forced into sort of this box. 241 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: And it was very clear to me that webs three 242 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: and Crypto are the antithesis of that, where you really 243 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: can still be taken seriously for your bottom line or 244 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: for you know, the insightful tweets or whatever you might 245 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: be investing in. You don't need to be wearing a suit. 246 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: You could be wearing a hazmat suit, I guess on 247 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: your second question. So, the biggest misconception to me that 248 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: I see is people think that suitonymity or anonymity means 249 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: that you don't have reputation, when actually it's quite the 250 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: opposite that if you want to be known, and if 251 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: you want to have a community or you know, have 252 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: a job, you have to make much more effort to 253 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: develop that reputation than otherwise, you know, k y C people. 254 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: So you know, I'm one of the only DOCS members 255 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: and you know, technically speaking, I've been developing my reputation 256 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: since I was born, and you know that's google able. 257 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: But anyone who chooses to take on a different personality 258 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: is starting from scratch um. And so there's this misconception 259 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: that you know, of course, maybe you can't always trust 260 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: and nons, maybe there's some degree of risk, But at 261 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: the same time they've taken on a significant amount of 262 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: risk too that if they wanted to rebuild that identity 263 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: or reputation, they would take much longer than for everyone else. 264 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: So I'm curious, you know, I'm looking at your your 265 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: portfolio on your website. I'm very amused by the unisocks investment. 266 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: For one thing, that was for those who don't remember, 267 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: we had Mike de m Ray on the podcast in 268 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: December and he was involved in that, which is basically 269 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: buy an n f T that's associated with a literal 270 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: pair of talks. But some of these projects like I 271 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: think there's like all the like well known I guess 272 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: you would call them docks actually or just sort of 273 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: like established VC firms in them, and then the announcement 274 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: will like you know, to be like some name that 275 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: you've heard of from Silica Valley, egol Capital as part 276 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: of the round do legacy vcs? What do they think 277 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: about being part of a deal where you guys are 278 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: listed on the round? You know, I don't. I don't know, 279 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: and to be honest, I don't really care. Um. I 280 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: think part of what we're trying to bring here is 281 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: like we're a group of highly capable, you know, folks 282 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: that have been in the space for between you know, 283 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: three to ten years. Um, you know, some started early 284 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: on in bitcoin, and we're bringing a lot of value 285 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: to the table that maybe untraditional, but um, you know 286 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: we're still here. We still were able to get a seat, 287 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, the project believed in our value that we 288 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: could bring to them. Um. So I think it's really 289 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: exciting and it's you know, breaking down that barrier that 290 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to be wearing suits, you 291 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: don't even have to have an identity that's public really 292 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: to do well. Can we talk a little bit about 293 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: out the graph, which is your day job, and I 294 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: would love to get your summary of what exactly it does. 295 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: But the other thing I want to ask you is 296 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: it has to do with atherium. It's not like a 297 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: bitcoin based application or protocol, and I guess I'm wondering. 298 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: You know, excitement over a theory um seems to be 299 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: one thing that a lot of the vcs share. So 300 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: the institutional capital is much more excited over ethereum and 301 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: applications and defy type stuff that you can build on 302 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: that versus basic bitcoin, which is seen as not being 303 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: as well suited to those types of applications. So I 304 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: guess my question is why ethereum and not something else 305 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: and doesn't mean that you sort of share something in 306 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: common with vcs and institutional money. So the graph is 307 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: a decentralized protocol for organizing and retrieving on chain data. 308 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: And what that means is every application that you see 309 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: that is running on a blockchain or queries smart contract, 310 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: they have to retrieve that data from a blockchain somehow, 311 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: and it's actually really difficult for developers to do that. 312 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: They would have to run their own node, they would 313 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: have to become experts in that blockchain. It's essentially a 314 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: back end job. And so what the graph does is 315 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: we have a standardized layer or a standardized API called 316 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: a subgraph that allows developers to develop you know, an 317 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: organization style or figure out exactly what information they want 318 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: from the blockchain and just you know, play around with 319 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: that subgraph. Meanwhile, the actual indexing and processing of that 320 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: data goes on in the back end on a network 321 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: of index ers. So we're really decentralizing the server or 322 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: the back end of what otherwise would be you know, uh, 323 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: database UM, you know, indexing infrastructure UM that is serving 324 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: data to users. So we often like to call ourselves 325 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: the Google of blockchains, so as Google is a search 326 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: engine and also the back end indexing of all of 327 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: the Internet's data. Currently, the graph protocol is the indexing bit, 328 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: and so we're trying to enable other applications like search 329 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: engines and just in general to be able to retrieve 330 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: that data as efficiently as possible. And why ethereum ethereum, 331 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: so our our ethos as the graph has always been decentralized, 332 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: and you know, to enable the best security possible. You know, 333 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: we really believe you can't have a DApp if it's 334 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: not decentralized, meaning all components are. And in our history 335 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: of just assessing blockchains, and you know, having been around 336 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: for a few years, um Ethereum was the one that 337 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: stayed true to that mission. Um the strongest, you know, 338 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: and we're even seeing that today in you know, what 339 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: some people call Ethereum taking its time with a roadmap. 340 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: Others could see as actually Ethereum being very thoughtful with 341 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: its roadmap to not do things too quickly UM. And 342 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: you know, you see other problems on newer chains that 343 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: you know Ethereum also experienced earlier on but Ethereum is 344 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: just at a more mature state. And you know, our goal, 345 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: although the graph network is built on Ethereum, our goal 346 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: is actually to index all of the world's data, meaning 347 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: any blockchain. So our hosted service currently supports twenty seven chains, 348 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: including many of the layer twos on the aream, and 349 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: soon all those chains will also be supported on the 350 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: network itself. And you mentioned that other Layer one other 351 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: chains have had issues recording this January and the last 352 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: few days. Salana one of the chains that we've talked 353 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: about in the past that is arguably an Ethereum competitor 354 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: has seen some pretty big delays and slow down, so 355 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: a lot of kinks still being worked out. You just 356 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: raised at the graph fifty million dollars is led by 357 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: Tiger Global. What is uh, what is the plan for 358 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: this money and what do you need to build? Yeah, 359 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: I'm really glad you asked. So. Over the last year, 360 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: we've been pioneering this new strategy that we called decentralized 361 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: m n A. So we realized really early on that 362 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: the mission of the Graph was so ambitious, so vast, 363 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: it couldn't be done by one team, and nor was 364 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: that the goal. UM. You know, part of decentralization is 365 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: also decentralizing the contributors. So over the last year, we've 366 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: had four new teams join us full time UM that 367 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: specialized in anything from back end infrastructure to cryptography to 368 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: UM graph q l A p i s and bring 369 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: them into act basically as full time core developers on 370 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: the protocol. So we aren't no longer you know, one 371 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: team that you know initially launched the protocol. Where five 372 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: and we raise this round basically to continue moving along 373 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: the strategy. UM. We have a goal of bringing on 374 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: another three to five teams in the next two years UM, 375 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: and that might be to help with the current roadmap 376 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: elements such as, um, you know, improving the efficiency of 377 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: the infrastructure. We also are you know, working and doubling 378 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: down on cryptography to make sure that the data that 379 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,719 Speaker 1: is actually being you know, queried by apps is verifiable. 380 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: So we've got quite a complex roadmap UM, and we're 381 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: looking to use that fifty million dollars immunition UM to 382 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: basically continue building on our vision. So you've talked in 383 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: the idea of like, oh, this is going to be 384 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: the Google of blockchains and decentralized are making it easy 385 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: for any DAP or applicating to centralized application to query 386 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: the chain. That sounds obviously very cool and theory. Can 387 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: you give a little bit more, I guess some concrete 388 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: examples of what kind of apps or what specifically would 389 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: be involved in that, Like what are like I think 390 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: this is where when people at least for me maybe 391 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm projecting, but at least for me, like I sort 392 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: of get trading and how the automated market makers work. 393 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: I sort of get like n f T s. But 394 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: still when I think about, like, well, what is a 395 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: web three application? What is it true? Like blockchain application. 396 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about specifically how applications 397 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: are using your infrastructure. Yeah, So, in my opinion, a 398 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: true DAP or true Web three app would be one 399 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: that is open permission lists and decentralized, meaning that it 400 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: would be very difficult or nearly impossible to take down. 401 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: And users have the right to exit, meaning that the 402 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: app or the platform itself isn't locking the user in. 403 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: But because everything is on a blockchain and other protocols, 404 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: they can swap their data and assets between those um 405 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: So you know, one really great example is e n 406 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: S Ethereum Name Service. So this is you know, ethereum domains, 407 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: and this means that any application could essentially query data 408 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: about your Ethereum name Joe or Tracy and use that 409 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: information on any website. So instead of using a Google 410 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: Magic link like we use today, we could use Ethereum 411 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: name service. And that means that any application that wants 412 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: to get data from your e n S names so 413 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: maybe that's your wallet and your activity, they could query 414 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: a subgraph, so that's an e n S a p I. 415 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: So any information on you know that that's from the blockchain, 416 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: whether it's trade volumes, or pricing or assets needs to 417 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: be queried from a blockchain, and subgraphs make it much 418 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: easier since developers don't need to rebuild their own ap I. 419 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: So you know, anyone building on let's say the unit 420 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: swap protocol can just use the exact same unit swap API. 421 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: Because it's open source, they can also fork it, rebuild it, 422 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: maintain it if they want to. Um. You know, the 423 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: end goal being that all these subgraphs are public goods 424 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: and they're even maintained by the community or a doubt itself, 425 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: and that really enables much more you know, innovation time, 426 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, maybe even cost savings for the team because 427 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: they don't need to hire a full time engineer to 428 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: manage that database. UM and it really enables compose ability. 429 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: So many teams can collaborate on either the same API 430 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: or you know, the same protocol without having to do 431 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: the same work again. So I really like that definition 432 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: of right to exit because it jives really nicely with 433 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: the wallet idea. We're talking with Mike dem Ray about 434 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: this about how um you know, if if you have 435 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: a wallet, you know, say meta mask or something, it's 436 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: easy to port that onto something like Rainbow and you're 437 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: not dependent on the platform in order to access your 438 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: information and your data and your assets. So that makes 439 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me. But one thing I'm 440 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: wondering is, you know, you've mentioned decentralization a number of 441 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: times in this conversation, and you've even talked about a 442 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: decentralized way to invest in decentralization. Why is it so 443 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: important beyond a better user experience? Because people talk about 444 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: Web three point oh as almost creating at our world, right, 445 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: it seems to have all these philosophical attachments and moral 446 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: values attached to it. What is it about decentralization that 447 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: makes it so important in your view and presumably so great. 448 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: I think there's a few things that we're starting to 449 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: see even play out in crypto. So one is censorship, 450 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: you know, the very common use case, and we're starting 451 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: to even see folks that just recently entered the n 452 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: f T space realized that, oh, you know, if the 453 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: n f T DAP isn't fully decentralized, meaning the A 454 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: P I, the server and where that n f T 455 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: metadata is stored, then you know, is that n f 456 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: T really real? Can I have the right to exit 457 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: that platform? Um? So you know, that's one one use case. 458 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: The second would be, you know, servers get taken down 459 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: all the time. Google goes down, Facebook goes down, and 460 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: they've been around for decades, and when we think about 461 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: scaling to a global network, you know, whether that's transactions 462 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: or n f T s, you really want to make 463 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: sure your app doesn't go down. So one really great 464 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: anecdote for us was Constitution down. So I'm not sure 465 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: if you've heard of Constitution to um, you know, millions 466 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: of dollars collected from the community to come bid for 467 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: the Constitution and at its peak, uh, you know, of excitement, 468 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: It's app went down because the API went down, and 469 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: so they actually transitioned to using a subgraph that was 470 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: on the decentralized network to make sure that they could 471 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: continue staying up during the auction. So that's a great 472 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: example of we're already seeing that today that you know, 473 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: things go down all the time. But furthermore, like why 474 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: would you want adapt team to be the team also 475 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: managing the node and doing all the complexities. So one 476 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: thing the graph and other decentralized protocols allow for is 477 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: unbundling of what we're otherwise centralized services. Or um tasks 478 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: that were managed by the project team originally, but now 479 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: we can actually completely fragment that. So whereas a team 480 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: might have been the one that deployed the smart contracts, 481 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: they might not be the team managing the UI. They 482 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: also might not be the team managing the a p I. 483 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: And that's fine because at the end of the day, 484 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: we're all building on top of each other's open source 485 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: tooling and protocols. So just on that note, I mean 486 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: this is something that people who are iCal of the 487 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: web three point oh idea will often go after this 488 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: idea that you're just going to have people, you know, 489 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: a community sort of maintaining these databases or being responsible 490 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: for individual components of something that all fits together. And 491 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: maybe they argue that, well, they don't have an actual 492 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: self interest in keeping these up to date in the 493 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: same way that a company like a Google or a Facebook, 494 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: even though you know, you might think it's evil, at 495 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: least it has a reason to kind of keep things going. 496 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: So the decentralized processes might not be as reliable as 497 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: a more traditional or centralized process. I guess what's your 498 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: response to that sort of criticism. Yeah, I definitely hear 499 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: that centralized coordination has its efficiency gains. But the benefit 500 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: of blockchains and cryptocurrency is that we have this new 501 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: incentive system. So whereas maybe Google had to be the 502 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: one managing their servers because they owned all their equity 503 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: and they also owned the rights to the server UM, 504 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: we now have a world where anyone can buy a 505 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: token at any time, a utility token. Anyone can use 506 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: that token in the network. So in the graphs case, 507 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: that would be staking as an indexer or a delegator UM, 508 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: and you can then earn rewards from you know, that 509 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: network and the productivity and value that it creates for 510 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: the world. So I actually think we're you know, solving 511 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: some scalability issues where typically the only people that really 512 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: care about the product are the people inside the company. 513 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: You know, often shareholders don't even care UM. But with tokens, 514 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: you allow anyone to you know, contribute and take ownership 515 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,959 Speaker 1: in the graph or whatever protocol it might be. So 516 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: we're seeing things like grantees come up with ideas of 517 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: you know, tooling or protocol improvements just because they've now 518 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: bought in and feel they are part of the community 519 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: as well, even though maybe their full time job is 520 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: you know, using their real name, and you know maybe 521 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,719 Speaker 1: in the Web two I wanna talk more about you know, 522 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: censorship and this and the dangers of centralization. And of 523 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: course one of the most obvious cases is Twitter, and 524 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: people find themselves their accounts are banned, uh suddenly, and 525 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: there's sort of this impulse to like, you know, this 526 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: is a word, like people love Twitter. You're on Twitter, 527 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: the fellow egirls are on Twitter. But you know, one 528 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: day Twitter could just take your account away. And it's 529 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: sort of this poster child for the sort of like 530 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: the double edged sort of Web two. Yes, there's all 531 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: these like cool platforms. We can share stuff, we can talk, 532 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: but we really don't own own anything and we can 533 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: be cut off. Do you first see Web three depths 534 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: rebuilding that in a decentralized way, Like will there be 535 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: a decentralized Twitter? Do you envision that, like at some 536 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: point in the next five years, you won't have to 537 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: use Twitter, you won't have to use Discord, or you 538 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: won't have to use Telegram because there are new decentralized 539 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: versions where you could share and communicate without the need 540 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: for a middleman company. I really do, and I think 541 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 1: it's going to make building applications way more competitive because 542 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: the switching costs are much ower. So you know, often 543 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: the way banks and credit cards keep customers in is 544 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 1: the switching costs or hig you can't reach the bank, 545 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. UM. Here it's as easy as 546 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: just sending wallet, sending funds to another wallet, UM, or 547 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: you know, switching UM your your name or your n 548 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: f T s. You know, by just selling it in 549 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: the marketplace. UM. So it'll be a lot easier to 550 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: build those apps. And we're already starting to see it 551 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: with adapt called Orbits recently came out. I know adapt 552 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: called Scent has been out for a while, UM, but 553 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: we'll probably see more iteration. What I'm personally excited for 554 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: is to see the coupling of the actual actions on 555 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: chain with our social platforms. So you know, right now, 556 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: most dows, they typically have a forum or some kind 557 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: of social platform where they discussed the doubt proposals before 558 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: it's actually put to a vote. And why is it 559 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: that the voting in the forum discussion is disconnected? Um? 560 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things I love about Bloomberg 561 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: is that the reason you know it kind of kicked 562 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: off was because the messenger or the chat became so 563 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: useful for traders, um, to make settlements or OTC trades, 564 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: whatever it might have been. And so I think we're 565 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: gonna see that same kind of thing happened where our 566 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: social applications are gonna start coinciding with maybe actually transactions, 567 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: you know, maybe um submitting trades, and you know, across 568 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: the board, we could see even the way we behave 569 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,479 Speaker 1: with each other starting to change. You know, people already 570 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: start to stock each other's e and s names to 571 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: see what they're doing. Um, So what else could there be? 572 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask another boomer feasibility question, I guess, 573 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: but I mean a lot of the a lot of 574 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: the services online that people use now, like Twitter or Facebook, 575 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: they're free. And the way those companies make money, um, 576 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: you know maybe with the exception of Twitter, but the 577 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: way they're supposed to make money is through advertising and 578 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: through gathering user data so that they can target these 579 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: people with the most effective ads. And it's supposed to 580 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: be the data which is the valuable product here. You know, 581 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: you've got something for free in exchange for providing these 582 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: companies reams and reams of data. When you move to 583 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: decentralized applications my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, 584 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: But my understanding is a lot of that data is 585 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: supposed to be more freely available, more open, more transparent, 586 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: which I guess makes it maybe less valuable to a 587 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: company trying to do something with it. It's no longer proprietary. 588 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: So I guess the question is, like, how does that 589 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: wide that wide open data or you know, the way 590 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: that decentralization will make data more accessible, more transparent, more 591 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: widely available, how does that stack up with actually making 592 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: money from decentralized services and transactions? Like how are profits 593 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: actually supposed to be created through this process? Yeah, that's 594 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: a really good question, and to be honest, I don't 595 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: have a clear answer because I would say a lot 596 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: of the infrastructure to enable even the most simple like 597 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: data analysis isn't quite there yet. You know, I can 598 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: speak for the graph and our roadmap is still quite ambitious. 599 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: You know, we'd like to be able to better support 600 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: analytics for that use case you're talking about, But I 601 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: I foresee a lot of different kinds of monetization strategies, 602 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: so kind of like I mentioned, people participating in protocols, 603 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, that's revenue, so you know, whether it's a 604 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: fund or an individual UM staking uh, you know, tokens 605 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: and then providing services. And those services could be anything 606 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: from you know, looking at images and curating which art 607 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: is most interesting to actually running hardware or you know, 608 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: maybe being a trader or a yield farmer UM, and 609 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: that is a way to generate income UM. I think 610 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: we'll also start to see a lot more innovation in 611 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: the micro payment level. So whereas right now we're you know, 612 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: not very mature in how do we enable what we 613 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: call meta transactions, so kind of transactions embedded in the background. 614 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: But I think what we might see in the future 615 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: with oracles UM, you know, which is retrieving off Chaine 616 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: data UM and other tooling UM the ability to charge 617 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: or or be charged for smaller interactions and that gets 618 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: charged directly to a wallet, and your wallet being you know, 619 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: something like your E and S name is now tied 620 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: to your identity. Instead of the ad companies paying uh, 621 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: you know, Twitter, the ad companies could in theories start 622 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: paying users and that could be micropayments or micro transactions 623 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: that are sent directly to the user wallet. UM. Similarly, 624 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: maybe instead of UM artists, you know, art being looked 625 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: at and them never receiving any rewards. Maybe artists are 626 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: earning to their wallets based on impressions or micro impressions 627 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: on Instagram. UM. So I think we're gonna start seeing 628 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: different kinds of monetization patterns arrive as the tech also 629 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: becomes more mature UM. And that includes layer two. It 630 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: includes things like the graph Um storage. You know, things 631 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: like are we've ipfs really seeing all those pieces come 632 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: together to make that possible? So, you know, one of 633 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: the reasons, you know, one that I'm excited about having 634 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: this conversation is you're really on both sides of the market. 635 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: As part of the Girl collective, you're an investor in 636 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: various Web three infrastructure, and the director at the graph 637 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: you're building stuff and raising money. So I want to 638 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: start like, Okay, obviously we've seen this pretty big volatility, 639 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: and by volatility I mean selling Ethereum has basically been 640 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: cut in half since the middle of November. A lot 641 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: of coins have done worse. So I want to just 642 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: start with like a simple question, which is have you 643 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: seen when you're going out to market as an investor 644 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: looking to buy into projects, has the selling um had 645 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: any effect on sort of like private market valuations or 646 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: deal pace or anything like that. I haven't seen it effected, 647 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: and I would be surprised if it does, because the 648 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: thesis with you know, the girl and others is much 649 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: more long term um typically at least two years, often decades, 650 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: and so we're really focused on what is the next 651 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: thing we're building, and how do we invest in in 652 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: that team that's building it. I mean, when you see 653 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: people talk about crypto winter on Twitter, and you know, 654 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: there have been people who maybe panic isn't the right word, 655 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: but certainly there's a sort of sense of unease amongst 656 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: crypto investors at the moment. I think, does does it 657 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: affect your investing behavior at all? Or does it affect 658 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: the way you think about things? Does it lengthen the 659 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: timeline to make things come together or be viable or 660 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: affected in any way? Yeah, I'd say it probably affects 661 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: us in how we think about our community. So anyone 662 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: who is around during the last bear market remembers how 663 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: brutal it was. You know, there were a lot of 664 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: really challenging experiences, whether it was layoffs or lack of 665 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: capital um, and so that is The first thing I 666 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: thought about was, you know, are we going to make 667 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: it as a collective, you know, is everyone going to 668 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: be okay? But the more controversial perspective I have is that, 669 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, bear markets are great. You know, as a builder, 670 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, the graph was built in a bear market, 671 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: and most of the best projects and infrastructure today, whether 672 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: it's later two S or n f T s, arrived 673 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: during the bear market, and it gives us time to 674 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: actually make mistakes, iterate. And even as an investor, you know, 675 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: you need that time for a project team to iterate 676 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: to actually come up with something innovative. So I'm also excited, 677 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: you know, if that is what's what's happening, if we're 678 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: having a little bit of a slowdown to have projects, 679 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, maybe take that time, reassess whatever the roadmap 680 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: is and keep shipping. So the other part of this 681 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: and this was, you know, this may be true now 682 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: in January, maybe it's probably true in November because there's 683 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: just an insane amount of like institutional money coming into 684 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: the space. And last week there was a report that 685 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 1: in Teresent Horowitz, which raised has a huge crypto fund, 686 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: has been into the space for a long time, there's 687 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: a report that their rate looking to raise like another 688 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: four and a half billion for another crypto fund. We'll 689 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: see if that comes together. But is there really like 690 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there's questions like is their capacity 691 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: like right now can money that scale be put to use? 692 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: Is there enough need for that much capital? Or if 693 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: you have a good project as a builder, like is 694 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: it really like all the options are on your side, 695 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: like what is the who has the power right now? 696 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: And is there really is there really used for that 697 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: much cash coming into the space. I would say there is. 698 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of projects that continue to raise, 699 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, their seed or precede because they're 700 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: just starting to out, or you know, maybe a Series 701 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: B because we're a few years into their cycle. Um, 702 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of opportunity to get involved, 703 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: depending on what the flavor is, you know. So, um, 704 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: some institutionals are more interested in defy given it's more 705 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: consistent with their you know, typical finance exposure, and some 706 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: are more interested in protocols. And I would say protocols 707 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: are probably where there's more opportunity because they take longer 708 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: to build, and so when when an investor might be 709 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: thinking about, you know, the roadmap of that team. You know, 710 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: Ethereum took what is it now, so about six years 711 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: almost six years just to really ship East too, you know, 712 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe there were some inefficiencies, but really 713 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: it's just hard problems. It's hard cryptographic problems that requires 714 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: the coordination between many different teams, often global, and so 715 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: I think that's the best place that we could see 716 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: more investment, you know, given that the roadmap is likely 717 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: you know, the next decade. I have a really tough 718 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: question and um you know, we talked about in the 719 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: intro how there always seems to be a new use 720 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: case for crypto h So, you know, we had method 721 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: of payment and then we kind of moved into defy 722 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: and then web three point Oh, what do you think 723 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: is the next big crypto use case or or perhaps 724 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: what do you think is an underappreciated use case at 725 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: the moment that people are going to be talking more 726 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: about in the coming years. Yeah. I have two favorites 727 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: here so E and S. Like I mentioned Ethereum name 728 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: services UM as the universal log in I think has 729 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: been untapped and you know, watching them grow over the 730 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: past year, grow into a dow you know, is really 731 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: allowing them to flourish and so sort of surpassed the 732 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,439 Speaker 1: Web three community. Everyone in Web three is known about 733 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: them um. But the goal is really that that could 734 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: be the killer app that gets WEBB two people in, 735 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: because a universal login is something we can all relate to. 736 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: You know, we all log into many apps and we 737 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: all forget our passwords. The second is this cross chain universe. 738 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: So something we've seen at the graph is a lot 739 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: more queries and usage of subgraphs that are more focused 740 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: maybe on wrapped bitcoin, so you know, creating some kind 741 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,760 Speaker 1: of wrapped bitcoin or solution that enables access to bitcoin 742 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: on ethereum or other chains. And to me, that signifies 743 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: a lot more interest from the bitcoin community to actually 744 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: get involved and defined some of these new activities or markets. 745 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: So whether that's investing in n f t s or 746 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: maybe actually just doing some investing in utility tokens um. 747 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: Seeing that growth in wrapped bitcoin and wrapped tokens um 748 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: signifies a much more mature smart contract ecosystem. UM, So 749 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,959 Speaker 1: folks not only interested in the typical Bitcoin use case 750 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: of you know, hard money, but also seeing that there's 751 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: a bigger world here and a lot more opportunity to 752 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 1: get involved. Well, Eva, that was great. I've always wanted 753 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: to learn more about the work that you do and can, 754 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 1: but you gotta I gotta get back. I really miss 755 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: like the morning saying GM in the e girl a discord, 756 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: So I don't know what happened, but if it still exists, 757 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 1: I really want to come back yet. Okay, I will 758 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: make sure you're invited back in, Tracy, do you also 759 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: want to join? You know? I think, okay, I'll come in. 760 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: But this is a lot of pressure because now I 761 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: have to think what my avatar is and what my 762 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to join on the pseud anonymous basis as 763 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, I gotta go choose my ape. So 764 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,479 Speaker 1: it's a lot of pressure. Yeah, exactly, all right, Well, 765 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: Eva Balan, thank you so much for coming out on 766 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: odd Lots. Thank you so much for having me with 767 00:39:43,040 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: the pleasure. Thank you, Eva. That was great, Trazy, I 768 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: thought that conversation was really fun. I really don't know 769 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: how you could like look at like the website of 770 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: Eager Capital and see this investment collective of like all 771 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: these cartoon characters and part of their investments are like 772 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: like on their like portfolio page or a bunch of 773 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: n f T s, And even if you think the 774 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: whole thing is kind of nuts, like it seems pretty 775 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: fun and cool. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I don't 776 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,439 Speaker 1: want to get too profound about it, but maybe it's 777 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: a really nice like due diligence test where if you 778 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: saw a bunch of cartoon characters saying that they were 779 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: investing in all this random stuff, you would be like, well, 780 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: I have no idea if they're serious or not, because 781 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: you know, one is a frog and the other one 782 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: is nape and another's an anime character or whatever. But 783 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: if you actually looked at what each of them is 784 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: doing and saying and understood whether or not what they 785 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: were saying was making sense, and whether or not they 786 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: were making intelligent commentary on the space, I feel like 787 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: that's actually probably a better method of due diligence than 788 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: seeing like Mark Anderson is investing in whatever startup and 789 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: so it must be really good, which seems to be 790 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: what a lot of people do nowadays. No, I totally agree, 791 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: and it's exactly right. Like if you know, like I 792 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: said in the beginning, a lot of the people over 793 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: the last you know, We've been following this space for years, 794 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: but a lot of the people who I've been following 795 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: and really like must read their stuff, I have no 796 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: idea who they are. They're completely undocked, their pseudonymous, but 797 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: like they've broken through, and in Crypto specifically, I would say, also, 798 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,359 Speaker 1: you know, I think what did what was the term 799 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: that evil years, like anti suit or something like that, 800 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: like we're suits, But they said, like a lot of 801 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: the people who I think, like frankly speak the most 802 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: nonsense and speaking total jargon, are exactly like suits and 803 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: people who like it's like I don't trust you, And 804 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: so I do think, like Crypto, the whole world like 805 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: short of flips on its head. Where where credibility comes from, 806 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: where credibility has earned? Yeah, And actually, I mean this 807 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: has been a challenge for us on all plots because 808 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 1: there have been anonymous people that we want to get 809 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: on the show, especially to talk around n f T s, 810 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: and it's hard for us to get them on because 811 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, even if they don't want to docks themselves 812 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: on the show. Um, and it's a bit difficult for 813 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: us to have totally anonymous people, but if they give 814 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: us an audio recording, you know, unless we like try 815 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: to disguise the voice. Um, there's still a concern that 816 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: they might docks themselves. But UM, I don't know. Maybe 817 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: if anyone has any good ideas for getting around that, 818 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: we would be all ears. The other thing I want 819 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: to say is, you know, we're talking about the difference 820 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: between people who just like sort of babble in technical jargon, um, 821 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: try to sound like they're knowledgeable versus people who are 822 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: actually able to explain this stuff in a clear way. 823 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: And I thought Eva's definition of what you know Web 824 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: three point oh is what true do Centralization is, as 825 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: this right to exit is a really simple and intuitive 826 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: way of thinking about it. Yeah, the idea of like 827 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: that you could like, okay, you have this data or 828 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: you have to use at cliche term that's or some 829 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: jarget that's coming back, like the so called social graph, 830 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 1: and the idea that you could move it, and the 831 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,879 Speaker 1: idea that not one company could control it and could 832 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 1: be somewhere else. It's very powerful. I still feel like, 833 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, look, we're all like tweeting, even tweeting. 834 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: The other girls are tweeting their discords or sorry discord 835 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: and cetera. Like there's still an incredible reliance on we 836 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: have two tools, and I don't know, like it's still 837 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: really hard for me to like envision like what the 838 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: decentralized version of all this is going to be. Like 839 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: I get n f t s, I get like having 840 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: a wallet with like showing your n f t s, 841 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: But that's different than like updating something that would be 842 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: equivalent to a tweet, or sending something a message that 843 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: would be there would be the equivalent to an email. 844 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: So I still have some part of me that's like 845 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: has a hard time wrapping around like what the decentralized 846 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: Internet really looks like. But you know, I don't get 847 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: most of this stuff anyway, so I wouldn't necessarily hold 848 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: that against them. Well, to me, that the data is 849 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: the is the important issue here and the thing that 850 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: has the big question mark around it. Right, So if 851 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,719 Speaker 1: you have the right to exit, you have the right 852 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,439 Speaker 1: to take all this data with you. And historically Web 853 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 1: two point oh has been run on proprietary data. That's 854 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: how people make money. My question is like how does 855 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: that transform into companies that are actually making profits? And Okay, 856 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: maybe you don't need everyone to be making a profit 857 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: in the same way that Facebook and Google and whoever 858 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: have traditionally been making profits. But it seems like you 859 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 1: still have to have some sort of monetization in order 860 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: to incentivize people to come in and build this stuff. 861 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: But I mean, on the other hand, it does seem 862 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: like there are a lot of people who are interested 863 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: in building it right now, and there's certainly a lot 864 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: of money pouring into the space without that monetization question 865 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 1: actually having been answered in detail, So maybe that's on 866 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 1: its way. Who knows. And I certainly believe Eva what 867 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: she says that even with the recent selling and so 868 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: many coins basically being cut in half, that these sort 869 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: of like impulse to build and invest is still going strong. 870 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 1: It feels like, I'm I don't think we're going to 871 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: have like an actually like crypto winter or everyone sort 872 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 1: of like forgets about cryptover three years the way we 873 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: did starting. No, it does feel like there's so many 874 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: people and so much money in the space and it's 875 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 1: almost its own belief system at this point that it's 876 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: really hard for it to go away totally. Great, All right, 877 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: shall we leave it there, Let's see it there? Okay, 878 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,280 Speaker 1: this has been another episode of the all Thoughts podcast. 879 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on Twitter at 880 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: Tracy Alloway and I'm Joey Isn't Thought. You can follow 881 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: me on Twitter at The Stalwart. Follow our guest Eva 882 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: Bayalin she is at Eva Bayalin Fellow or producer Laura 883 00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: Carlson at Laura M. Carlson. Follow the Bloomberg had a podcast, 884 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: Francisco Leavi at Francisco Today, and check out all of 885 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: our podcasts at Bloomberg under the handle at podcasts. Thanks 886 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,080 Speaker 1: for listening.