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Speaker 1: M okay. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast,

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Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all

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Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best

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Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy hard

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Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more

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Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit

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Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While

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Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast,

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Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for session one forty six of

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. Today we're digging into

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Speaker 1: some of the challenges of being a black woman physician.

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Speaker 1: For this conversation, I was joined by Dr Tilson o'duncy.

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Speaker 1: Dr o'duncy is an O b G y N who

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Speaker 1: has had a non traditional path to becoming a physician.

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Speaker 1: After graduating from Cornell University in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: she started her master's degree in public health at Thomas

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Speaker 1: Jefferson University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She went on to start

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Speaker 1: medical school at Maharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee, and

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Speaker 1: completed her MPH between her second and third year. Subsequently,

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Speaker 1: she graduated from me Harry in two thousand and fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Dr o'duncey and I discussed her experiences in medical school,

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Speaker 1: some of the microaggressions she's experienced as a physician, how

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Speaker 1: she takes care of her missal health, and she shared

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Speaker 1: tips for other sisters considering medical school. If you are

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Speaker 1: something while listening that resonates with you, please share with

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Speaker 1: us on social media using the hashtag tv G in Session.

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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for being with

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Speaker 1: us today, Dr o'dency, Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to be here. Yeah. Likewise, so we have

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Speaker 1: lots of black women physicians who are a part of

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Speaker 1: our audience. They are always in the comments when they

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Speaker 1: have free time. So I'm really happy to chat with

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Speaker 1: you today just about some of your experiences as a

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Speaker 1: black women physician. And so can you talk first about

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Speaker 1: maybe some of the challenges that you've had thus for

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Speaker 1: in your career. Sure, I think that's a good question,

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Speaker 1: And of course all of our experiences are different, but

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Speaker 1: there are certainly some themes that I've had. So if

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Speaker 1: I go back to medical school, there were some challenges academically,

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Speaker 1: and I guess with this feeling of being enough and

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Speaker 1: deserving to either and be on the path of becoming

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Speaker 1: a physician, because in college, my pre medical advisor basically

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Speaker 1: told me that maybe medicine wasn't the right path for

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Speaker 1: me and discourage me from pursuing medicine based on my

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Speaker 1: g p A and my grades at that time. After

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Speaker 1: my first year of college, I had a two point

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Speaker 1: seven g p A, so she wasn't very encouraging, and

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Speaker 1: with the support of my family, I continue to pursue

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Speaker 1: the pre medical route and even with academic challenges, was

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Speaker 1: able to get into medical school. But there was always

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Speaker 1: that feeling in the back of my mind that I

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Speaker 1: didn't necessarily deserve to be here, which may be a

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Speaker 1: common issue that a lot of black physicians have, that

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Speaker 1: imposter syndrome. Yeah, and I think, you know, it's so

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Speaker 1: interesting because I feel like I have heard lots of

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Speaker 1: black women have a very similar story, right, like of

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Speaker 1: being advised against trying for medical school, or you know,

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Speaker 1: someone kind of early in their life talking about the

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Speaker 1: fact that maybe this might not be the best route

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Speaker 1: for them. So I think that that probably happens more

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Speaker 1: often than we even maybe are aware of. Absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's so unfortunate because there's so much potential in

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Speaker 1: our community to become black physicians and we need more

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Speaker 1: of us out there. M hmmm. So maybe that is

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Speaker 1: a place to start, just like even before some of

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Speaker 1: the challenges, like after becoming a physician, but the challenges

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Speaker 1: maybe even in undergrad and through your mad school training.

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Speaker 1: And maybe are there any tips that you have for

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Speaker 1: someone who may be interested in pursuing medical school and

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Speaker 1: like not quite sure of how to manage the process. Sure,

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Speaker 1: So the number one thing that I'm passionate about is

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Speaker 1: mentoring those that are coming behind me. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's so important to have somebody who looks like you,

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Speaker 1: who's doing what you want to do, because if you

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Speaker 1: don't see it it, then you may think it's unattainable

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Speaker 1: or not able to be achieved. So definitely getting a mentor,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter if you don't know what specialty

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Speaker 1: or what field, or if you don't even know if

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Speaker 1: you want to become a physician, it's important to have

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Speaker 1: a mentor who you can talk to about how you're

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Speaker 1: feeling what your plans are, So that would be number one.

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Speaker 1: Some of the challenges that I faced during medical school

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Speaker 1: and residency was I did have to repeat my board

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Speaker 1: certification exams every single one, so step one, step two,

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Speaker 1: and step three, and I think that a lot of

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Speaker 1: it came from personal issues going on at the time,

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Speaker 1: and then also this test anxiety, just like how I

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Speaker 1: talked about that feeling of not being enough from an

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Speaker 1: early age, I remember ap calculus in high school just

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Speaker 1: having a lot of difficulty in that class, and that

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Speaker 1: perpetuated and follow of me with subsequent important exams that

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Speaker 1: I had to take. So test anxiety may be an

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Speaker 1: issue that others face as well. A lot of my

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Speaker 1: mentees have that test anxiety, and there's no shame in

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Speaker 1: getting help. So I encourage my mentees to go to

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Speaker 1: office hours meet with the professor. Make sure that they

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Speaker 1: know your name, because I spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: going to my professor's office just to verbally go through

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Speaker 1: concepts and topics, and they know you and they understand

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Speaker 1: how hard you're trying, and they may also give tips

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Speaker 1: on what they're going to ask on the exam. The

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Speaker 1: third thing that I would say is to definitely have

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Speaker 1: enough emotional support. My family and I were very close,

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Speaker 1: so with each of the challenges that I had to face,

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Speaker 1: they were my cheerleaders. They would remind me of who

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Speaker 1: I am um and tell me the truth when I

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Speaker 1: had all these thoughts saying no, you can't do it. So,

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Speaker 1: whether it's close friends or family, you need that support system,

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Speaker 1: that community that will build you up when you're not

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Speaker 1: feeling so great. You know, as you're talking, I'm just

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Speaker 1: listening to you know, because I think sometimes people think,

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Speaker 1: like you get to miss school and then like that

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Speaker 1: is the last hurdle, But clearly there are all these

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Speaker 1: additional hurdles that you kind of have to overcome on

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Speaker 1: routes to you know, becoming like a board certified physician, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I'm glad to hear you talking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: how you overcame the obstacles of like not passing your

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Speaker 1: board exams the first time and like keeping up and

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Speaker 1: continuing to try. Are there other things that you would

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Speaker 1: contribute your success and kind of overcoming those hurdles beyond

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Speaker 1: the support system, Like what other kinds of things really

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Speaker 1: helped you to kind of get past that hurt living

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Speaker 1: your life right. UM, definitely positive self affirmations. I have

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Speaker 1: to talk to myself a lot and try and undo

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Speaker 1: the brainwashing that I had received during my training, and

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Speaker 1: every day just tell myself the truth of who I am.

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Speaker 1: And it's probably within the last one or two years

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Speaker 1: that I finally am firm in my beliefs and it's

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Speaker 1: nobody can tell me who I am because I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: so grounded in that. If I were to talk about

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Speaker 1: issues during residency that I think are common amongst black women,

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Speaker 1: I can't speak for the black male experience, but just

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Speaker 1: navigating microaggressions and feeling like an outsider or as another

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Speaker 1: I think that's a very important area to touch on

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Speaker 1: because we don't necessarily talk about it a lot, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the feedback that I've gotten from my

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Speaker 1: mentees is they just don't know how to navi get

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Speaker 1: those situations because we have the stereotype, unfortunately, that we're

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Speaker 1: angry black women, So we have to I feel like

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Speaker 1: we're wearing several masks while we're in training just to

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Speaker 1: be perceived as non threatening or intelligent enough, or that

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Speaker 1: we are competent. So those are some themes that I've

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Speaker 1: noticed as well. And you mentioned something a little earlier

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Speaker 1: that I want to go back to, this idea that

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Speaker 1: you needed to kind of undo the brainwashing that you

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Speaker 1: had experienced in training. Can you say more about that. Sure? So,

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Speaker 1: I think we have about fifty thoughts during the course

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Speaker 1: of the day, and I had a lot of negative

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Speaker 1: self talk, and every day whenever I had a thought,

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Speaker 1: I had to replace it with the truth. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: one of my mantras and it's also on my website,

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Speaker 1: is that I have everything within myself to succeed, and

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Speaker 1: just saying that over and over again that I don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily need to look outside of myself to accomplish my

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Speaker 1: dreams and my goals. That everything I need, so the grit,

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Speaker 1: the determination, the perseverance, the knowledge or the ability to

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Speaker 1: acquire knowledge, and all the skills that I need to

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Speaker 1: be a physician, and not even just as a physician,

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Speaker 1: but as a human being, they're all already inside of me.

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Speaker 1: I just have to convince myself over and over again

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Speaker 1: that that is the truth that I already harbor those traits.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like there were things kind of inherent

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Speaker 1: in the training that made you question like whether you

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Speaker 1: were okay to do this. So a lot of us

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Speaker 1: we come into residency. We've completed medical school, so we've

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Speaker 1: gotten that certification, and then we may come into residency

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Speaker 1: with a culture shock of Okay, I'm the physician. I

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Speaker 1: have to make those decisions. And there's just little things

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Speaker 1: that happen that can discourage black physicians on their their path.

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Speaker 1: I'll give an example. So if you don't fit a

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Speaker 1: certain mold of the type of resident that maybe the

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Speaker 1: program is looking for, it does kind of put you

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Speaker 1: into a box, into this territory of maybe people seeing

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Speaker 1: you as other and not trusting you initially. So I

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Speaker 1: had to do a lot of work to build that

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Speaker 1: trust amongst my colleagues and faculty and staff to prove

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Speaker 1: that I deserve to be in training. I didn't talk

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Speaker 1: about race at work, and that was very intentional because

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Speaker 1: it's a sensitive topic. But I did find another black

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Speaker 1: resident who was my friend, and we were able to

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Speaker 1: have those discussions about what was going on during our training,

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Speaker 1: and it just seemed like a lot of things were subjective.

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Speaker 1: So you could be doing fine, You're meeting all the

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Speaker 1: moll stones, and then it's kind of like an all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, the environment shifts and maybe somebody doesn't

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Speaker 1: like you, and then they start building a case against you.

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Speaker 1: And I've had several mentees tell me that same story

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Speaker 1: of I was doing fine and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: things just shifted. It's an area that I had to

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Speaker 1: tread lightly and navigate because there are those repercussions that

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Speaker 1: can happen if you speak up. And I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of fear because we're in a vulnerable position.

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Speaker 1: We don't have the power and or people have our

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Speaker 1: our future in their hands, so to speak, and it's

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Speaker 1: just a tough situation to navigate. Yeah, yeah, And that

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Speaker 1: kind of leads me to another question just thinking about

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Speaker 1: you know, because a lot of what you're sharing are

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Speaker 1: the experiences that a lot of black women have kind

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Speaker 1: of just navigating professional circles and you know, climbing corporate

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Speaker 1: letters and those kinds of things, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: the situations we find ourselves and can actually lead to

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Speaker 1: like lots of anxiety, you know, questioning yourself and really

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Speaker 1: a detriment to your mental health. But then I wonder,

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Speaker 1: are you also afraid of like reaching out for help,

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Speaker 1: because what does that maybe signify about your ability to

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Speaker 1: continue in your program, or is there a question of

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Speaker 1: is she fit to be a physician? Right exactly. That's

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Speaker 1: a very important point. So we're all I think most

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Speaker 1: of us are Type A people, and we may have

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Speaker 1: done well our whole lives and may not be comfortable

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Speaker 1: asking for help because as it may be seen as

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Speaker 1: a weakness. But I encourage everybody if you need help,

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Speaker 1: to reach out for help, and it may not be

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Speaker 1: in your medical school or your residency, and maybe seeking

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Speaker 1: professional help from a therapist, from your pastor, or if

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Speaker 1: you have any religious beliefs, just seeking that support and

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Speaker 1: having somebody who you can talk to. I did actually

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Speaker 1: have a spiritual mentor during residency um to discuss things

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Speaker 1: that were going on and just having that person who

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Speaker 1: was on my side praying for me. That was very

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Speaker 1: important in addition to my family. If you wanted to

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Speaker 1: see therapy, like when you're in medical school or when

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Speaker 1: you're in your residency training, is that something that you

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Speaker 1: are required to share with your attendings or your medical

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Speaker 1: school faculty, or is that something that you can just

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Speaker 1: pursue without the worry that somebody else will be told?

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Speaker 1: You can absolutely do that without letting anybody know. The

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Speaker 1: difficulty comes with our schedule. So as an l b

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Speaker 1: G I N I was up by five and then

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Speaker 1: probably didn't get home until seven o'clock. So the regular

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Speaker 1: hours for therapy are nine to five, so it's very

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Speaker 1: difficult to it's difficult to schedule that time. UM in

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Speaker 1: medical school, it might be a little bit easier because

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Speaker 1: you automatically have weekends off for the most part. Residents,

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Speaker 1: you might be on call on the weekend, so there

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Speaker 1: are some therapists that are open on the weekends. In addition,

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Speaker 1: now that we have all this technology, there are apps

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Speaker 1: that can maybe sustain you. So better Help and also

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Speaker 1: talk Space are two that I would recommend. And you

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Speaker 1: can be paired up with a licensed therapist and you

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Speaker 1: can chat with them once a week. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's important to just check in with somebody frequently and

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Speaker 1: not have a reactive mindset. We're okay, now I'm in

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Speaker 1: such a deep dark place. Now I'm going to seek help.

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Speaker 1: It's more of a maintenance therapy, just like if somebody

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Speaker 1: had a chronic condition, they're gonna take their medication or

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Speaker 1: blood pressure or what have you. You're maintaining that treatment

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Speaker 1: so that you are less likely to get into dark

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Speaker 1: place in the future. And it also seems like there

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Speaker 1: are some things just kind of inherent in the process

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Speaker 1: of training for to become a physician that also like

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Speaker 1: don't work best with your mental health, like the long shifts, right,

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Speaker 1: and the disturbances to sleep and you know that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, And so it is really important to kind

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Speaker 1: of be mindful of, you know, like the impact. And

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Speaker 1: of course, I mean, you're studying medicines and you know

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Speaker 1: how all of that impacts you. But it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a part of what the job calls for. So what

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Speaker 1: kinds of things helped you to kind of manage your

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Speaker 1: mental health um during that training And what kind of

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Speaker 1: suggestions would you offer to other either students or physicians

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Speaker 1: in training. Sure, that's a good question. I used to

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Speaker 1: be very reactive, meaning, oh man, I don't feel so great,

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Speaker 1: so now I'm going to do all these things. And

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Speaker 1: then I shifted my perspective to having a list. I

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Speaker 1: call it my arsenal. I have a whole list of

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Speaker 1: things that I can try when I'm not feeling all

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Speaker 1: that great, and it's my wellness list. So listening to music,

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Speaker 1: I love afrobeats and gospel music, talking to family, physical

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Speaker 1: exercises at the top as well, and my spiritual health

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Speaker 1: is is also up there. Making sure I'm getting enough

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Speaker 1: exercise during the week because you're releasing those feel good hormones.

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Speaker 1: As much sleep as I can get. I if I

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Speaker 1: have to have a choice between eating and sleeping, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to choose sleep because when I feel rested, I

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Speaker 1: know I can focus, I have the energy, and I'll

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Speaker 1: worry about the food part later, which is it's also

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Speaker 1: kind of sad, but um, I think that's important. Other

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Speaker 1: things that I like to do is physically removing myself.

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Speaker 1: So this was during training, I would go to New

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Speaker 1: York City and visit my sister so that I'm not

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Speaker 1: necessarily in the same city as where I'm training. It's

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Speaker 1: a change of environment and interacting with people who I

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Speaker 1: love and care about that definitely reset my my mood

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Speaker 1: and my perspective. So those are just a few things

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Speaker 1: on my list that I go to first that have

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Speaker 1: really helped me during my training. And you already talked

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Speaker 1: a little bit about some of the microaggressions, and I

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Speaker 1: know some of what we've seen in our community from

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Speaker 1: the physicians talk about microaggressions they experience even from patients, right,

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Speaker 1: So patients not acknowledging them as a physician in the room,

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Speaker 1: or you know, saying like let me speak to your

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Speaker 1: supervisor or something like that, which I think, and this

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Speaker 1: is the inherent nature of micro aggressions, right, is that

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Speaker 1: it leaves you question like what is this about? Like

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Speaker 1: is this good? I'm black? Is it because woman? You know?

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Speaker 1: Like what is this about? Right? And so can you

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Speaker 1: talk just about like how you've maybe being able to

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Speaker 1: like lead on other women to kind of get some

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Speaker 1: support for those microaggressions or how have you handled those?

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Speaker 1: I think that's a good point. So the thing about

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Speaker 1: microaggressions is that you question am I crazy? And having

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Speaker 1: somebody that you can bounce off the situation too is

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Speaker 1: very helpful. So I talked about my friend and we

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Speaker 1: talked about the different situations that we're going through, and

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Speaker 1: that really helped to validate my experience and validate her experience.

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Speaker 1: And then over time with Instagram, I was able to

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Speaker 1: find a lot of other black O, b g, I,

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Speaker 1: m S and other specialties that I could reach out

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Speaker 1: to and also validate myself. So I think that's such

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Speaker 1: a powerful tool to find a are black female physicians

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Speaker 1: that look like you and are going through the same

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Speaker 1: training process and you don't feel so alone. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad that you mentioned being able to connect

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Speaker 1: with people from Instagram and other social media, right, because again,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you find yourself as one of a few,

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Speaker 1: or if not the only, right in your programs. So

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Speaker 1: being able to connect with other people who may have

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Speaker 1: similar experiences, I think is really important. That's one of

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Speaker 1: my passions. So I started in two thousand and eighteen

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Speaker 1: March two thousand eighteen a mentorship program that's definitely grown

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Speaker 1: over the years where I am matching women who are

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Speaker 1: black and Latin X who are pursuing a path towards

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Speaker 1: being a US physician with current physicians who are also

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Speaker 1: black and Latin X. So it's a huge undertaking, but

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Speaker 1: I definitely feel lots of fulfillment from doing it because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that come and talk to me

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Speaker 1: on Instagram, a common theme was I don't have a mentor,

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Speaker 1: and I just think that's so unfortunate because we have

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Speaker 1: so much advice to give, and most of my advice

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Speaker 1: is based on things that I didn't do correctly, And

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Speaker 1: I think we have a lot of powerful tools within

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Speaker 1: our community to guide those that are coming behind us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and you were talking earlier about how you know,

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Speaker 1: some of your mentees have expressed kind of getting to

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Speaker 1: this certain place in their program and then like everything changes.

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Speaker 1: And my guess is that some of that is because

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Speaker 1: there probably are not a lot of people who look

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Speaker 1: like us making the decisions, right. And so even though

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Speaker 1: you know, of course all skin folks akin folk kind

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Speaker 1: of like they say, right, but I do think it

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Speaker 1: adds to the variety of perspectives in the room, right,

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Speaker 1: And so you know, there are more people at the

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Speaker 1: table to be able to weigh in on decisions about

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Speaker 1: trainees and things like that. But if there are not

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who look like us, then there's

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Speaker 1: not even a chance for maybe that contact to answer

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Speaker 1: the situation. Absolutely, And just to give some numbers behind that,

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Speaker 1: of the one point one million active physicians, only two

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Speaker 1: percent are black female physicians, so we're just pretty much

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Speaker 1: sprinkled out there. So it's tough to find that support.

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Speaker 1: But when you find it, definitely latch onto that person

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Speaker 1: and they can make your experience a lot better. I

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Speaker 1: was not aware that that number was so small, I

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Speaker 1: think because I went to Xavier Um University of Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of you know, my classmate think colleagues

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Speaker 1: or black women, and they graduated with me and now

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Speaker 1: they're physicians. And I'm also very intentional about like having

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Speaker 1: an all black women medical team. But I live in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: so it's easier to do that, right, So I was

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Speaker 1: not aware that that number was so small. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is that does mean that there definitely are not

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Speaker 1: a lot of you. And then when you do find

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Speaker 1: someone who you can, you know, have a supportive relationship,

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Speaker 1: if it seems like it becomes that much more critical. Right, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: But I think the other part of that, though, is

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Speaker 1: is that because there are so few of you, then

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Speaker 1: even though your heart maybe in mentoring, that is an

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Speaker 1: additional thing now that you're adding to all of your

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Speaker 1: busy schedule, right And so you know, even I've heard

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Speaker 1: black women professors in the medical schools talk about like

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Speaker 1: the burden. Of course, you know, many of them love

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Speaker 1: to do it, but it is an additional thing that

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Speaker 1: their colleagues are not doing. That adds to the workload. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how many mentees I have, but

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Speaker 1: between college and residency, I probably had three hundred that

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Speaker 1: I can kind of give a ballpark. And even there

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Speaker 1: was a three week period recently where I had an

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Speaker 1: enrollment of two hundred new two new mentees. So it's

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Speaker 1: so hard to keep up, but that need is there.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely there. So other things that you can think

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Speaker 1: about in terms of like just the medical school training,

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Speaker 1: like are there suggestions or things you've already thought like, oh,

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00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: if they added these kinds of things are included, this

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00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, it could be a better situation for

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Speaker 1: black women who are in training. This is a tough

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Speaker 1: question because I'm only reflecting on what I went through,

390
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: but I think, just okay, I think having maybe summits

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00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: or meetings that aren't through a school or not affiliated

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Speaker 1: with the school, kind of like a sister circle where

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Speaker 1: we can share that knowledge without the fear of repercussion,

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Speaker 1: so like an anonymous meeting. It sounds so weird, but

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Speaker 1: that's the idea that I have, and that's how I

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00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: meet with a lot of people. Because I don't necessarily

397
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: want it to be through an institution or anything. I

398
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: just want to impart that knowledge so they can go

399
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: out and and thrive. So if there's a way of

400
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: making it less like under the table, that would be great.

401
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: But I think that's where we are right now, just

402
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: imparting that knowledge, like pulling people to the side, Like

403
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: I see another sister, she's she's coming behind me, and

404
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: I pull her to the side and I have a

405
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: talk with her, like this is how this is how

406
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: things are, This is how things are gonna go. Like

407
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: just not a warning, but just yeah, right like that,

408
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: I'm here. You know that if there are things that

409
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Speaker 1: come up, then I can be a resource potential. Yeah,

410
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: So are there not UM like organizations or associations that

411
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: exist that would help with something like this, Like is

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Speaker 1: there like an organization of like National Black Women Physicians

413
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: or National Black Positions or something like that. Are their

414
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: organizations that exist that might be able to help with

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00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: the of this that you've certainly there certainly are so.

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00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: One of the ones UM is s n m A

417
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: and they have frequent meetings and it's specifically for minority

418
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: students who are on their path to becoming physicians. And

419
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: that's an excellent resource. UM even if you go through

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00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: the women's associations I'm sure you can find people in

421
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 1: our community within those larger organizations. Um, A lot of

422
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: it is doing your own research. And like I said before,

423
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: I found people through Instagram. So even if you don't

424
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: find somebody through those large umbrella organizations using social media

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00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: and connecting with people, there are a lot of people,

426
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: a lot of mentees that I've met in person just

427
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: from them reaching out to me through Instagram. So if

428
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm in a city that's near them, we might meet

429
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: up and have a chat. But they're definitely organizations that exist.

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00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: But having that organic relationship, I think it takes an

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00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: extra step part of the person in training to find

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00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: somebody who can really look out for them. Mm hmmm, Yeah,

433
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, all we've talked about is

434
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: are a lot of what we talked about is like

435
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: having to take these extra steps. So we've also talked

436
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: about like how grueling your schedule is right, and so

437
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: you can see how sometimes you know, people are really

438
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: probably just silently struggling because they don't feel like they

439
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: have the time to reach out and find all of

440
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: these extra resources. Yeah, So are there any books or

441
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: other resources that you have found particularly helpful on your

442
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 1: journey that you'd like to share. I love all Brunet

443
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: Brown books, and the most recent one that I enjoyed

444
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,719
Speaker 1: is Braving the Wilderness, a Quest for true belonging and

445
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: the Courage to stand Alone. That was a very good one. Um.

446
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: The second one is called Grit, The Power of Passion

447
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: and Perseverance. It's by Jela Duckworth. And then another one.

448
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: So another issue is setting boundaries and just being clear

449
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: as to what you will and will not take. So

450
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: there's a book called Boundaries, When to Say Yes, How

451
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: to Say No, to Take Control of your Life by

452
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: Henry Cloud and John Townsend. So I think those three

453
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: books are a good starting point for people. UM. Of

454
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: course you can listen to podcasts. There's a podcast for everything.

455
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: So I definitely learned a lot from doing that. UM

456
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: and a lot of empowerment podcasts I listened to, So

457
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of resources out there. Podcasts might actually

458
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: be better, especially on those drives to and from work. Um,

459
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: during the downtime at work. You may not be able

460
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: to read a physical book, right, but you could do

461
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: like an audiobook or some of these podcasts exactly. Yeah,

462
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: So I want to go back because you mentioned the boundaries,

463
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: and that is not something we talked about about what

464
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: that looks like while you are a physician or becoming

465
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: a physician, because there are a lot of demands, of

466
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: course made on your time and your resources. So what

467
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: kinds of things have been helpful to you in setting boundaries? Sure,

468
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: So after my intern year, I did a reflective process

469
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: and I noted that I was taking a lot of

470
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: work home, so dictating and just a bunch of busy

471
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: work that I would take home. So I made the

472
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: decision I'm not going to take work home unless it's

473
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: an emergency. And I actually kept that through the last

474
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 1: part of my residency training and even now as an

475
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: attending physician, I don't take work home. It's difficult because

476
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: you may have to spend a little extra time at work,

477
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: but just setting that cut off of when I come

478
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: through the door of my home, that's my safe space

479
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: and work is not gonna penetrate into my home and

480
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: kind of spill over and overflow, and having that boundary

481
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: has definitely made my home life a bit more peaceful.

482
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: That also includes talking about work at home. It's very

483
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: limited now and some thing so if you have a

484
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: difficult patient or a difficult case that may require a

485
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: little bit more time to think and reflect. But I

486
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: really try not to bring that into my home, so

487
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: if I were to talk to a professional about it,

488
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: that would probably be a better avenue than maybe burdening

489
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: family with that information. I love that you have kind

490
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: of sit very kind of clear cutoffs for your time

491
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: and like this is what happens here, and you know,

492
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: when you can compartmentalize like that, sometimes it definitely is easier,

493
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: right And something I haven't shared. So the last week

494
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: of my intern year, unfortunately, my husband passed away and

495
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: that was a sudden shock and has definitely made me

496
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: reflect a lot on how I want my life to

497
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: be in the future. That's definitely shaped the boundaries that

498
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: I set from my life now. So I'm very protective

499
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: of my time with my family and my own personal

500
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: time to take for myself, so I don't feel bad

501
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: when I have to say no to people. I think

502
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: that's the biggest lesson that I've learned over the course

503
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: of the last almost five years since he passed. Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

504
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: So where can we connect with you? Dr Dancy? You

505
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: mentioned a website, so you share your website please, as

506
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: well as any social media handles that you'd like to share.

507
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: Sure the website is life by tosin l I F

508
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: E B Y t O s I N dot com.

509
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: And then on Instagram, same same handle Life by Tosan.

510
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: And then I do have a Twitter that I'm trying

511
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: to you know, get with the kiddies, get with the millennials,

512
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: um to use and it's the same handle Life by Toison,

513
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: so you can find me there too. Perfect Well, thank

514
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: you so much for taking time out of your schedule

515
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: to chat with us. I really appreciate it. Thank you

516
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. I'm

517
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: so glad Dr o Denci was able to share her

518
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 1: expertise with us today. To learn more about her and

519
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: to check out the resources that she shared, be sure

520
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls

521
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: dot com slash session, and please remember to share this

522
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: episode with two people in your circle, and don't forget

523
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: to share your takeaways with us on either Twitter or

524
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: in your I G stories using the hashtag TBG in session.

525
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: If you're searching for a therapist in your area, be

526
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: sure to check out the theres directory at Therapy for

527
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash directory, and if you want

528
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic and meet some other

529
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: sisters in your area, come on over and join us

530
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: in the Yellow Couch Collective where we take a deeper

531
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: dive into the topics from the podcast and just about

532
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: everything else. You can join us at Therapy for Black

533
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash y c C. Thank you all

534
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look

535
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: forward to continue in this conversation with you all real soon.

536
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: Take good care,