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Speaker 1: Having those photographs doesn't document death, It captures love. It

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Speaker 1: documents David's existence, that he existed.

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Speaker 2: He was stillborn. He never received a birth.

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Speaker 1: Certificate, but he existed, he lived, He lived inside of me.

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Speaker 1: And so for the parents who lose a baby, whether

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Speaker 1: they're stillborn or they die shortly after birth, a lot

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Speaker 1: of times people don't fully understand the magnitude. But these

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Speaker 1: photographs absolutely show like this baby was real.

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Speaker 2: This baby was mine.

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Speaker 1: He had dark, curly hair, chubby cheeks, and those photographs

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Speaker 1: will always be my most treasured possession.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

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Speaker 3: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur,

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Speaker 3: and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis.

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Speaker 3: And the last part unintentionally led to an oscar for

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Speaker 3: the film about our team, it's called Undefeated. I believe

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Speaker 3: our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch

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Speaker 3: of fancy people and nice suits talking big words that

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Speaker 3: nobody understands on CNNM Fox, but rather an army of

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Speaker 3: normal folks, US just you and me deciding hey, I

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Speaker 3: can help. That's what Gina Harris, the voice. We just

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Speaker 3: heard is done incredibly. Gina was the beneficiary of the

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Speaker 3: nonprofit that she's now the CEO of Now I Lay

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Speaker 3: Me Down to sleeps. One thousand, seven hundred volunteer photographers

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Speaker 3: have given free portrait sessions to seventy thousand families who've

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Speaker 3: sadly lost their children to stillburse or soon after their

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Speaker 3: burse and they desire remembrance photography with their children that

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Speaker 3: they can cherish forever. While Gina has an extraordinary story

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Speaker 3: to hear, the real reason she wanted to come on

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Speaker 3: is to pay tribute to their own army of normal folks.

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Speaker 3: These seventeen hundred volunteer photographers their stories right after these

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Speaker 3: brief messages from our generous sponsors, Jita Harris, Hello, welcome

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Speaker 3: to Memphis.

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Speaker 2: Hi, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: So you're a six generation Colorado, Colorado, Coloradin.

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Speaker 1: Coloraden, Colorado. Yeah, from Colorado, ic Oh, Colorado.

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Speaker 3: Got it, six general, sixth generation. If you do the math,

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Speaker 3: that's like one hundred and thirty one hundred and forty years.

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Speaker 3: Your people want I there on wagons.

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Speaker 2: I think they did. My mom.

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Speaker 1: It's my mom's dad's side of the family. They probably

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Speaker 1: went out there for gold, but I'm sure they came

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Speaker 1: up shorthanded because I didn't.

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Speaker 3: It because nobody lived in a mansion anywhere. No, No, well,

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Speaker 3: how are you from Colorado in one hundred and forty

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Speaker 3: years and get law school on the airport?

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Speaker 2: I don't know why. Well, sometimes I go the toll road.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't.

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Speaker 1: But it was this morning during traffic, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: go the toll road, so I turned around and went

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Speaker 1: back on it.

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Speaker 2: I did get lost going to the airport.

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Speaker 3: Just kidding up. We were visiting before we got started,

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Speaker 3: and the trip here was tough. But Denver built that

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Speaker 3: airport like seventeen hundred miles away from city in Kansas. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's ridiculous. I mean it's way.

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Speaker 2: Out there, and it still is even though Denver's grown just.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Denver's blown up, right, Yeah, but it's still hadn't go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a long drive, right.

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Speaker 3: So it's in Kansas. Still. Tell me about you. Where

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Speaker 3: did you grow up in Denver?

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Arvada. It's a suburb of Denver. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I grew up in Arvada. I live in Littleton now,

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Speaker 1: and I went to Colorado State University in Fort Collins.

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Speaker 3: Rams yes, that's right. They're at Green and White at

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Speaker 3: I think Green and Gold Green gold house. Close.

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Speaker 1: And siblings, Yes, I have two older sisters and a

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Speaker 1: younger sister, so four of you.

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Speaker 3: What mom do? What dad do?

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Speaker 1: My dad was a manager at Safeway. Yeah, yeah, grocery

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Speaker 1: store manager. My mom stayed at home. She cleaned houses too,

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Speaker 1: and did some odd jobs while we were growing up.

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Speaker 3: And what was important to your parents growing up? What

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Speaker 3: was there at those what? What? What mattered to them?

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Speaker 2: Definitely? Faith? Faith, It was a very very strong part.

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Speaker 1: We went to church every week, and my dad was

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Speaker 1: a reader and an usher and very involved.

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Speaker 2: He taught confirmation.

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Speaker 3: And he taught confirmation class.

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Speaker 2: He did he did cool.

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Speaker 3: Did he teach you in your confirmation class? No?

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Speaker 1: So that's the whole other story with my dad that

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Speaker 1: maybe you don't know. When I was thirteen years old,

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Speaker 1: he was only thirty nine and he died of a

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Speaker 1: brain anorism. She went to work and died of a

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Speaker 1: brain anorism.

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Speaker 3: How, and you were thirteen I was thirteen and your

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Speaker 3: kids were I mean your siblings were.

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Speaker 1: How My younger sister was just a year younger, and

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Speaker 1: then my two older sisters, they were already out of

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Speaker 1: the house. My mom was married prior to my dad,

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Speaker 1: and my dad adopted my two older sisters, so they

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Speaker 1: were already I think eighteen and probably twenty two.

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Speaker 3: How did your mom handle that?

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Speaker 1: That was extremely difficult and definitely changed our journey significantly.

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Speaker 1: My mom suddenly had to be mom and dad, and

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Speaker 1: it was my younger sister and I. We just very

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Speaker 1: felt very much on our own a lot of times.

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Speaker 1: So my mom did the very best she could, but

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Speaker 1: it did. It was very devastating. My dad was the

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Speaker 1: love of her life and still is, and their anniversary

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Speaker 1: would have been a few weeks ago actually, and she

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Speaker 1: posted on social media about him being the love of

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Speaker 1: her life, and so that very much impacted her and

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Speaker 1: my sisters and me for sure.

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Speaker 2: My dad was my hero.

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Speaker 1: And still to this day the person I most look.

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Speaker 3: Up to as that is phenomenal. And that was so

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Speaker 3: many years ago and so sudden as we get into

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Speaker 3: your story deep for that revelation is actually maybe even

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Speaker 3: more impactful as I think about your story and your journey.

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Speaker 3: So that happened thirteen. You were eighth ninth grade. Then

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Speaker 3: you went on finished school and went to Colorado State.

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Speaker 3: I guess yes, And what'd you major in?

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Speaker 2: I have a broadcast journalism degree.

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Speaker 3: A newswoman like a reporter. Yeah, yes, that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Did you do that a little bit?

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Speaker 1: But I just really felt the Lord calling me into

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Speaker 1: nonprofit work. And I also wanted to coach cheerleading.

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Speaker 3: So did you cheer in high school and college?

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Speaker 1: I did in high school and then in college. I

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Speaker 1: needed to work and to pay for everything, and so

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Speaker 1: I started coaching at a high school. I met some

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Speaker 1: girls on a cheered team and they said, will you

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Speaker 1: come help us? Our coach doesn't know what she's doing,

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Speaker 1: and I went and help. So when they asked me

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Speaker 1: to come help coach, I thought this would be a

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Speaker 1: great way for me to still be involved in cheerleading

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Speaker 1: because I always say that God gave me cheerleading. I

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Speaker 1: found cheerleading after my dad died.

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Speaker 3: It made you happy, it did? It was was cheerleading,

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Speaker 3: was I think it was.

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Speaker 1: But it was also healing because you can't just jump

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Speaker 1: into something as an escape but then not heal from

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Speaker 1: whatever traumas that you've gone through. And so yeah, but

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Speaker 1: it was a place I could go and forget about everything,

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Speaker 1: because after losing my dad and the impact it had

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Speaker 1: on my family, and you asked about my mom, my.

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Speaker 2: Mom my, sisters.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to go somewhere where I could forget everything.

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Speaker 1: And I made the team the first year because I smiled.

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Speaker 2: And that was it.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have any talent, but I ended up

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Speaker 1: being an All American cheerleader in high school no kidding, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you, and then being able to go and coach.

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Speaker 2: It would be a way to give back.

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Speaker 1: But I started coaching my freshman year of college. And

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Speaker 1: it was right after something else, very traumatic happened in

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Speaker 1: my family. My older sister, my second of the oldest sister, Christine,

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Speaker 1: she was murdered by her husband while her children were

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Speaker 1: in the home.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. How was Christine?

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Speaker 2: She was in her early twenties. She was twenty four.

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Speaker 3: So we're talking five or six years after losing your father. Correct,

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Speaker 3: So your father unexpectedly passes with an aneurysm. Yes, and

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Speaker 3: then six years later you lose your sister to a murder.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: I got to ask you something. I know this is

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Speaker 3: your story, But how in the world did that affect

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Speaker 3: your mom? Oh?

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Speaker 2: It affected the rest of her life. It affects her today.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever heard of the of the Holmes Ray scale. No,

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Speaker 3: so one of I'll read far too much. But the

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Speaker 3: Homes Race Scale was something that was put together, I

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Speaker 3: think in the seventies, maybe the late sixties, by some

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Speaker 3: prominent psychologists who are just getting into understanding the effect

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Speaker 3: of mental stress on actual physical health. Prior to that,

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Speaker 3: there was mental health and physical health, but nobody coud

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Speaker 3: connected the dots between mental health and physical health and

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Speaker 3: how true mental health and trauma could actually make someone

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Speaker 3: physically ill. Today we take it for granted because we

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Speaker 3: understand that that's a real thing. But back in the

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Speaker 3: sixties they were just on the advent of trying to

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Speaker 3: understand it. And these two guys Home and Ray put

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Speaker 3: together a stress scale and it starts with death of

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Speaker 3: a spouse, goes through divorced merit of separation, and the

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Speaker 3: scale all the ways goes down to a minor violation

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Speaker 3: of a law. Ironically, and I mean like a major

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Speaker 3: holiday having family overs. Apparently on the stress scale, you've

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Speaker 3: got a family. You know what that's like. But each

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Speaker 3: of those stressors have a point total, and if you

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Speaker 3: add up those point totals and they are greater than

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Speaker 3: a particular number. You are considered high spress, high stress,

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Speaker 3: and at risk of severe health problems. And when reading

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Speaker 3: your story before just now, I only knew about what

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Speaker 3: we're going to talk about later. I had no idea

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Speaker 3: about the stressors prior that we've just learned about your

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Speaker 3: dad and your sister. And frankly, your chart is I

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Speaker 3: mean you should walk with a limp or something. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is this is I mean you and your family

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Speaker 3: have been through have been through it, and your I

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Speaker 3: have to ask your your sister's how many children did

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Speaker 3: they have?

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Speaker 1: Well, it was her second husband, so the children were

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Speaker 1: the kids of her first husband.

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Speaker 3: How many So there were three. There were three children

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Speaker 3: in the home.

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Speaker 2: They were two, three, and five years old.

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Speaker 3: What did was he drunker property?

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Speaker 1: No, he bought a life insurance policy on her and

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Speaker 1: they had only been married six months. So he strangled

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Speaker 1: her to death. And he tried to stage it that

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Speaker 1: somebody had broken into the home and done it, but

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Speaker 1: his lives didn't add up, and so right away they

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Speaker 1: arrested him and he was convicted of first degree murder

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Speaker 1: and he was given life with the possibility of parole.

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Speaker 1: And this happened out in Las Vegas, and so at

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Speaker 1: that time, you only needed to serve ten years before

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Speaker 1: you're eligible for parole. And he ended up serving just

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Speaker 1: shy of twenty four years, not even the amount of

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Speaker 1: years my sister lived, and they let him out.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Wow, So who took the children?

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Speaker 2: They ended up going with their biological father.

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Speaker 1: And so we've kept in touch, and I'm in touch

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Speaker 1: with my niece and my nephews and they're in their

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Speaker 1: thirties and you know, doing the best they can right now.

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Speaker 3: Do they still struggle with all of it? Yes, because

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Speaker 3: he out out of jail, I guess that doesn't give

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Speaker 3: them that has.

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Speaker 2: To be that's part of it.

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Speaker 1: But I think, you know, losing your mother in such

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Speaker 1: a traumatic way at such a young age, I mean.

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Speaker 2: I can't, I can't.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for them right now, but

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Speaker 1: obviously with anyone, that's going to have a significant impact

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Speaker 1: on your life.

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Speaker 3: And so this happened your freshman year.

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Speaker 2: This was my freshman year of college.

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Speaker 3: Wow. And I mean that had to screwed up everything

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Speaker 3: for you all over again. I mean, school, your mother,

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Speaker 3: your family, trying to find your place in the world

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Speaker 3: and happiness, all of it. MM.

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Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, it definitely.

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Speaker 1: It definitely affected me, and I think it's just more

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Speaker 1: of the trauma of when my dad died. He was fine,

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Speaker 1: he went to work. It was a Saturday, and we

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Speaker 1: got a phone call that afternoon to come to the hospital.

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Speaker 3: He was at work. He was at work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he had come home for lunch, and so I

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Speaker 1: was supposed to go somewhere with my friends that day,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't for whatever reason. So we were able

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Speaker 1: to have lunch with him, and I just remember those

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Speaker 1: last moments with him.

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Speaker 2: And then a few hours later, we received.

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Speaker 1: A phone call to come to the hospital, and when

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Speaker 1: we got there, we weren't able to see him right away,

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Speaker 1: but then a priest came out and my mom had

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Speaker 1: gone in, and then a priest came out and told

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Speaker 1: my younger sister and me that he had died. And

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Speaker 1: then my mom came up to my dorm and I

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Speaker 1: wasn't expecting her, and she knocked on the door. And

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Speaker 1: this was before anyone really had cell phones or anything.

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Speaker 1: She knocked on my door and I opened it, and

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Speaker 1: I knew something was really wrong. I looked on her

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Speaker 1: face and she told me what had happened.

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Speaker 3: To Christie yes, how I mean at this time we

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Speaker 3: were a guess night.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I just her nineteen a week before the week before.

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Speaker 1: So she died on November eighteenth, and my birthday's November twelfth,

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Speaker 1: and my sister left me a message and I still

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Speaker 1: have it because it was one of those old voice

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Speaker 1: recorders with the tape, and she was really happy. She

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Speaker 1: said she was going to be doing what she always

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Speaker 1: wanted to do. She told me she was able to

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Speaker 1: quit her job, her husband was going to work more

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Speaker 1: hours so she could stay at home with her kids,

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Speaker 1: and that she was already volunteering at her son's kindergarten class.

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Speaker 1: And that's the last convert I ended up talking to

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Speaker 1: her too, But that's the last I talked to her,

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Speaker 1: just a week before. And yeah, so to have the

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Speaker 1: shock too is part of the trauma, that everything's fine

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Speaker 1: and then it's just.

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Speaker 2: Your world just changes.

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Speaker 3: How did That's more than most people have to deal

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Speaker 3: with in a lifetime, much less than nineteen year old kid?

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Speaker 3: How did how do you deal with that horror? How

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Speaker 3: did you particularly now I'm not saying how does one?

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Speaker 3: I'm saying specifically, how did where did you find the

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Speaker 3: strength to do with that horror. Gina's answer to that

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Speaker 3: right after the break. But first, I hope you consider

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Speaker 3: signing up to join the Army at Normalfolks dot us, Guys,

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Speaker 3: I honestly believe this army can change our country. By

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Speaker 3: signing up, you'll also receive our weekly newsletter that has

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Speaker 3: short episode summaries and in case you prefer reading about

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Speaker 3: the Army members or celebrating each week, as well as

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Speaker 3: fun and exciting updates about our movement. We'll be right back. Well.

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Speaker 1: When I was when I lost my dad, I knew

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to make him proud, and so I

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Speaker 1: was very focused and determined and motivated to be the

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Speaker 1: best I could be whatever I was attempting.

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Speaker 2: And I was an AU straight A student.

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Speaker 1: Lots of a's, lots of bees, but everything that I did,

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Speaker 1: I just I was always wanted to make my dad proud.

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Speaker 1: And my sister, this particular sister, Christine, She's the one

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Speaker 1: that I always talked to her about like boyfriend problems

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Speaker 1: or whatever. She was five years older, so she was

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Speaker 1: like the perfect person to talk to.

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Speaker 3: She was a real love like big quote big sister.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely, and just very just free spirited and

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Speaker 1: I always say that I can still hear her laughter,

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Speaker 1: like right now, thirty years later, I can still hear

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Speaker 1: her laughing.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think where I was going, what was

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Speaker 1: the questions?

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Speaker 3: That's fair when you're reminiscent about something so painful, How

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Speaker 3: do you do?

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Speaker 2: How did I deal with it? Throughout high school?

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Speaker 1: I sort of had faith, and when I lost my sister,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really.

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Speaker 2: You know, I knew who God was, but I wasn't

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Speaker 2: really going to church or anything.

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Speaker 1: And I was just living my life, trying to do

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Speaker 1: the best I could. And I thought back, when was

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Speaker 1: I the happiest? And after my dad had died, my mom,

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Speaker 1: a whole host of things happened. But then my mom

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Speaker 1: sent my younger sister me to a Christian school, and

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Speaker 1: late in college when I was almost graduating, just thought,

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Speaker 1: when did I feel the happiest? When did I feel

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Speaker 1: the best? And I thought back to that time. It

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Speaker 1: was shortly after i'd lost my dad, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to.

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Speaker 2: Try some different churches.

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Speaker 1: And I started doing that, and I just thought about

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Speaker 1: a lot of the bad things that I had done

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Speaker 1: that I.

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Speaker 2: Felt bad about or guilty about. And I knew that.

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Speaker 1: I needed God's forgiveness, and I thought, how can God

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Speaker 1: forgive me for all the things I've done? And I

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Speaker 1: thought about I thought about the murder of my sister,

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Speaker 1: and I knew that I needed to release the bitterness

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Speaker 1: and the anger. And so I just arrived at a

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Speaker 1: place that I need to just forgive him. Not that

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Speaker 1: I would tell him that or have a conversation, but

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Speaker 1: I needed to forgive. And then that's when I really

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Speaker 1: felt God's forgiveness of me and what the Lord has

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Speaker 1: done for me. And so since that time, you know,

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Speaker 1: my faith has been fairly strong.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's been up and down too, but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you have.

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Speaker 1: Just it's just like a relation with Jesus is just

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Speaker 1: the same as you would have with your spouse, not

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Speaker 1: the same, but or with your sibling that you know

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Speaker 1: it's great.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes it's not, but you still there's still that

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Speaker 2: love there.

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Speaker 1: And that's really what's what's gotten me through. But even

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Speaker 1: when I didn't even know or acknowledge that God was there,

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Speaker 1: I just I remember a year ago, I was on

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Speaker 1: a run and God distinctly told me, he said, Gina,

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Speaker 1: I've I've been with you that your whole life, but

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Speaker 1: especially when Dad died, I have been with you and

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Speaker 1: just helping me through everything.

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Speaker 3: That's pretty phenomenal. With regard to you're talking about Christine's

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Speaker 3: ex husband slash murderer, I don't know how it works,

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Speaker 3: but I do believe there's a difference in forgiveness and

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Speaker 3: a pardon, and I think it is incumbent upon us

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Speaker 3: to forgive, but that does not mean you're pardoned from

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Speaker 3: your evil.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: And I really had research forgiveness, and dang, forgiveness keeps

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Speaker 1: coming up in my life. Other people I have to

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Speaker 1: forgive that that just.

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Speaker 3: Makes you normal, You know that, right? Everybody deals with

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Speaker 3: that for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's yeah, forgiveness doesn't mean it excuses what

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Speaker 1: they did or the hurt that you experience and that

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Speaker 1: I still experience.

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Speaker 3: In my in my book, there's actually a chapter on forgiveness,

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Speaker 3: an entire chapter I wrote on it, and it's it's

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Speaker 3: it speaks about grace. And one of the things that

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Speaker 3: I believe with everything I am, and I say it

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Speaker 3: in the in the book, is that forgiveness is actually

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Speaker 3: more important for the forgive er than the forgiven.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 3: And I think when people get their arms around that.

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Speaker 3: They will understand that that forgiving. Forgiveness is hardest for

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Speaker 3: the people who do the most egregious things, but it's

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Speaker 3: also most important for you to forgive those that do

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Speaker 3: the most egregious things. So you can just move on.

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't mean you pardon it. It just means

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Speaker 3: you forgive it. And you understand that whatever that person's

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Speaker 3: done is between his and his God, but between you

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Speaker 3: and your God. You're good.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Well, And he was eligible for parole after ten years,

387
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Speaker 1: and so even though I'd had that forgiveness, my family

388
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Speaker 1: and I we went and talked to the parole board

389
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Speaker 1: and we did that multiple times every three years until

390
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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. So and then they released him. But that's

391
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: exactly right. You can forgive, but there's also consequences for

392
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Speaker 1: actions as well, and we knew at some point they

393
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Speaker 1: would release him. We were surprised when they did, but

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Speaker 1: we knew what would happen.

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Speaker 3: Well, June, at the ripe old age of nineteen, you're

396
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Speaker 3: a freshman in college. You've lost your father, your sister's

397
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Speaker 3: been murdered, and you still got to graduate. And you do,

398
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Speaker 3: and you do, you do the broadcast journalism.

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Speaker 2: Thing I did in college. I did a little.

400
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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I right before I graduated, because I went

401
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Speaker 1: through December of that year. That summer before I graduated,

402
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Speaker 1: Fort Collins had a huge flood and the flood wiped

403
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Speaker 1: out the entire student center of not the bottom level

404
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Speaker 1: level of the student center at Colorado State, and it

405
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Speaker 1: destroyed our whole TV studio with all of our tapes.

406
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Speaker 1: I'm nothing digital that now, nothing ninety seven nothing is digital.

407
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Speaker 1: And I'm sure that flood meant a lot to a

408
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Speaker 1: lot of different people, but for me, I was already

409
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Speaker 1: going in a direction of do I want to do this?

410
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Speaker 1: Because if you're going into TV news, that's going to

411
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Speaker 1: be your life. You drop everything. It's the latest story.

412
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Speaker 1: And so I all my tapes are gone, and we

413
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Speaker 1: didn't have a studio to even record anything new.

414
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Speaker 2: I had a semester left of college, so you.

415
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Speaker 3: Have you have no real any that's your resume.

416
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Speaker 1: It is so and even what we kind of rebuilt

417
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Speaker 1: of the station, like I remember one of the Denver

418
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Speaker 1: TV stations donated all the equipment and we just at

419
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Speaker 1: that point, I'm like, okay, Lord, you just set me

420
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Speaker 1: in a new direction.

421
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Speaker 2: In my life, which was which was?

422
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Speaker 1: I had been competing in the Miss Colorado, which goes

423
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Speaker 1: on to Miss America system. Really I had been, and uh, okay,

424
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Speaker 1: let me get my years right. So the year I

425
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Speaker 1: was going to graduate from college, I was the first

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Speaker 1: runner up to Miss Colorado.

427
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Speaker 3: Really, I was that's cool, congratulation, thank you, and.

428
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Speaker 1: I saying, and then I danced, So I've done both. Really, yeah,

429
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Speaker 1: the talent always got me. I did well on the interviews.

430
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Speaker 1: So after I graduated from college in December of ninety seven,

431
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Speaker 1: the board of directors of the pageant terminated the contract

432
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Speaker 1: of the Miss Colorado who had won that year and

433
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Speaker 1: asked me if I would fill in, because that's what

434
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Speaker 1: the first runner up does. And I was praying about

435
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Speaker 1: it because in six months I was going to get

436
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Speaker 1: ready to compete for Miss Colorado again. Being the first

437
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Speaker 1: runner up, I thought I had a shot.

438
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Speaker 2: Well, but I thought, Lord, of all the of all.

439
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Speaker 1: The people, all the years, I get first runner up,

440
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Speaker 1: this is the year this happens. And I ended up

441
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Speaker 1: taking on the title of Miss Colorado.

442
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Speaker 2: And I honestly, well, no, I didn't win.

443
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: I filled in because they fired Colorado. What Miss Colorado

444
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: did nothing ill, moral or indecent, just not abiding by

445
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: the contract.

446
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: Right. So because your runner up, you get the thing

447
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 3: I did.

448
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: But then she decided to sue and get the title back.

449
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: She didn't want want to give back the crown, the car,

450
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: the money. And this is so long ago now, but

451
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: so I went to a judge before an arbitration, and

452
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: during that time, I'm serving as Miss Colorado. And this

453
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: was on a dateline People magazine, like I'm in the

454
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra edition the year he passed away of People magazine.

455
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: So it's in all of these media stories and she's

456
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: trying to get the title back. And when people ask

457
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: me about it, I just said, I I'll talk about

458
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: my platform, domestic violence awareness. And so two weeks before

459
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: I was supposed to crown the new Miss Colorado, the

460
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: judge made a decision that I'm no longer Miss Colorado

461
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: and the woman who won is the rightful Miss Colorado.

462
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: So I went to a press conference and they were

463
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: expecting me to say, well, I'm going to sue, I'm

464
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: getting the title back.

465
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: And when I was.

466
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: Driving to Denver for this, I thought I already served

467
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: as Miss Colorado.

468
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: I did what I set out to do.

469
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: Do I need this title by my name for the

470
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: rest of my life to show that I'm significant, that

471
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: I mean something. Is this title me or am I significant?

472
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,479
Speaker 1: Because of who God created me to be? And this

473
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: is what led the news. I said this exactly. My

474
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: identity is not in a crown, it's not in a car,

475
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: it's not in money, it's not in the title of

476
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: Miss Colorado. My identity is in myself and in my

477
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: faith in God. I am Gina before I miss Colorado.

478
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: But I will always be grateful for this experience.

479
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: Peace out. My job, it's a wrap.

480
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I share that like with my cheerleaders I

481
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: coach now, I share this when I go out and

482
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: speak because our identity is not wrapped up in and

483
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: what we achieve or our titles. We are significant and

484
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: unique because that's how God created us. And if our

485
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: life is dependent and our identity is dependent on whatever

486
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: you're setting out to achieve, then what happens when that

487
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: goes away? I was missed Colorado one day, and then

488
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: the next day I wasn't.

489
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: Am I less significant?

490
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 3: I'm a boy something a lot more than what you

491
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: achieve or what other people say about you. It needs

492
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: to be about character and commitment, integrity and the basics

493
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 3: of who you are and the human you're designed to

494
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: be for sure. Yeah, okay, so you meet this guy

495
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: and you marry him. Where's that house?

496
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: Oh? That was way later?

497
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 3: Yeah? All right, Well what am I missing in the middle?

498
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: Well, not a lot a good single life? Actually, what

499
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: a good single life?

500
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, so you have a great Yeah.

501
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: Well when it said nonprofit work, it.

502
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 3: Kind of Miss Colorado. So you got this life in Colorado,

503
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: your sixth generation Miss Colorado, and you know that's all going.

504
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: And I think I read you went to work for

505
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: a nonprofit right, friends First or something? What is friends First?

506
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: We did youth mentoring programs for students, so we trained

507
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: high school students to mensor middle school students. Oh school,

508
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: We had a national conference and I was there until

509
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: twenty eleven. That afforded me the opportunity to go and

510
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: speak at the school assemblies. I did a lot of

511
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: things with different states Department of Education and was able

512
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: to do a lot of traveling and field to see

513
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: a lot of things.

514
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 2: So it was really fun.

515
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: So life's good.

516
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: So then I get.

517
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: Asked to speak at a school and my kids in Colorado,

518
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: and my future husband was sitting in the audience and

519
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: he wasn't a high school student, don't worry, but he

520
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: was the athletic director at the school, and the principal

521
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: introduced us, and I.

522
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: Thought it was kind of cute. But he will always

523
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: say this that I was very professional.

524
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: I just kind of shook his hand and didn't give

525
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: him any kind of like look or anything.

526
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 3: But did he give you a kind of look?

527
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: I think so.

528
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: So he was he's athletic director. Does he also coach yes,

529
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: football ball, Yeah, that's what we're talking about, that football, basketball.

530
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: A football coach he was.

531
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: He coached volleyball for a year.

532
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 3: Asketball.

533
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, he knew nothing about it.

534
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: He's a great motivator.

535
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: Nobody would want me to coach volleyball. It would be

536
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: like that Lasso show. What's that like, Ted Lasso or something,

537
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: the guy the football coach goes over to Europe to

538
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 3: coach soccer and he's just a complete disaster. That'd be

539
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: me coach at Bolligo.

540
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they had nobody to coach him, so that

541
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: was just one season. Obviously they moved on to somebody else.

542
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, he coaches football, basketball and so he's the

543
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: athletic director and they had just started a cheer program.

544
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: So I don't know it at school or.

545
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: Where the athletic director actually cares about the cheer program

546
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: where they would call me and say, hey, do you

547
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: want to come help our cheerleaders? Have never been called

548
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: by an athletic director about that.

549
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I knew what he was up to, so that.

550
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: He rob did he not think anybody saw right through that,

551
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: Hey you would have come help with the cheerleaders and oh,

552
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: by the way, I'll be here. When do you show up?

553
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? I know. Well he was coaching basketball and I went.

554
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: The cheerleaders are shoved in a hallway to practice.

555
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 3: How long did you date?

556
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: Not very long?

557
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: Actually, at that point, I was twenty eight. He was

558
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: thirty two or maybe thirty one at the time, and

559
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: neither one of us had been dating anyone.

560
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: Seriously for quite a while, like we.

561
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: Were just living our lives and just working with students,

562
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: and so I just really felt like, well, I didn't

563
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 1: want to date right away. I just wanted to be

564
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: friends friends first where I worked. But he's like, it's like,

565
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: I'll wait. But it's not like he was selling widgets

566
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: or something. And his colleagues were like, oh, he's a

567
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: great guy. I mean I had parents coming up to

568
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: me saying things like he's God's gift to this school.

569
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 3: He's a great guy. Is good.

570
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I felt like they were unsolicited. I mean,

571
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: he might have slipped in money sometime when I didn't

572
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: realize it to say good things about me about himself.

573
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, then we just really just knew that this

574
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: was right. So we got married about ten months after

575
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: we met.

576
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 3: Really yes, yes, wow.

577
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: Mainly because of football.

578
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: Because yeah, well, I'm going to tell you should.

579
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: Get married before the season. He'd have to wait, and

580
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: I wanted to get married.

581
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: You're talking to a guy who got married when he

582
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 3: was a football coach. I met Lisa after the third

583
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: game of the season, and we had to get married

584
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 3: before spring practice started. And plus I was a football

585
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 3: coach and I was broke and had no money, and

586
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 3: that was when we could. We've got married December seventeenth,

587
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 3: around Christmas time, because it didn't have to boundy flowers

588
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: because the church was already decorated with all the Christmas stuff.

589
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: I should have done that.

590
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 3: Oh oh, it's the greatest thing in the world. Oh,

591
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: Christmas Christmas. Marriages in a church are like a bargain

592
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: and everybody's festive anyway, So it was great. And that's

593
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 3: when I had to get married to be able to

594
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 3: go on a honeymoon because it was Christmas break. I

595
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 3: couldn't take off anywhere else because I had coaching in

596
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 3: school going on. So I absolutely get how you kind

597
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 3: of fit it in when you're a coach.

598
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: Oh exactly.

599
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: So we'd gotten married in August seventh, but because at

600
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: the time, everything started a little later.

601
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's start and now it's well, yeah, now.

602
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: Now all the practices are starting even earlier. So we

603
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: had decided almost two years ago to renew our vows.

604
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: But we picked a different date July seventh, because it didn't.

605
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: Words a chair or football. So that's one of the

606
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 2: reasons why we picked July seventh.

607
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: That's really that's a cool story. So you're now twenty eight.

608
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: You've you know, although clearly even today, the death of

609
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 3: your father still affects you, but you've coped, you moved on.

610
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 3: Your sister obviously still affects you, and but you've coped,

611
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 3: you've moved on dealing with it, and you get married

612
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 3: and you're starting a family, and you've got your college

613
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 3: degree and you just kind of starting this normal life

614
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: and football coach guy husband, and you get pregnant. Yes,

615
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: how long had you been married?

616
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: We were married three years by that point, got it?

617
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 3: So? Three years gotten through the newlywed thing. I mean

618
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: sounds like the natural progression of things, right, You meet,

619
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: you build your life together, you're happy, and you get pregnant,

620
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 3: and you wanted a family and he wanted a family, right,

621
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: and so you're all gended up and excited to have

622
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: a baby.

623
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: Yes.

624
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: So I read where you said you found out the

625
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: gender and you started buying stuff I guess for the nursery.

626
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: Is that right?

627
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: We went in for the twenty week ultra sound and

628
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: the baby wasn't really moving, and she actually didn't really

629
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: say much, but she said, you're having a boy. She

630
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: the obi the yes, okay, Well it wasn't the obie,

631
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: it was it was an ultrasounds Okay, So she couldn't

632
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: tell us much. But I'm newly pregnant, first pregnancy.

633
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 3: You don't you don't know anything?

634
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I don't know anything about this. All I

635
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 1: knew was that you had to drink a ton of water.

636
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: And I had it in the bathroom and she actually

637
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: let me because she wanted to see if the baby

638
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: would move, but the baby was really yeah.

639
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: She said, oh, I think I think he's just sleeping.

640
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: And his heart was beating and the heart was fine,

641
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: so we just thought he was sleeping. And our OB

642
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: was out of town. And then I went to one

643
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: of the youth conferences that my previous nonprofit and I

644
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: received a phone call from i OB and he said,

645
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: we need you to come back in to see a parenteatologist. Uh,

646
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: it looks like your baby may not have kidneys. And

647
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you talking about.

648
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 3: We'll be right back.

649
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: Something that had happened just the day before I was

650
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: I was getting ready and I had this overwhelming feeling

651
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: come over me that said, this baby will not be

652
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: with you next year.

653
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: How why did I have that failing?

654
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I told my husband. You know,

655
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: sometimes you have bad thoughts and you just keep it

656
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: to yourself.

657
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: But I think now, in fairness, you suddenly lost a

658
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: father when you were young, and that even though you

659
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: move on and cope, that leaves that leaves a trauma

660
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: and a scar and an emotional reaction that you never

661
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: really walk away from, and you've lost a sister traumatically

662
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 3: in ways that most of us will never understand or comprehend.

663
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 3: Is it possible that that you just had a sense

664
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: of dread because you'd experienced so much loss in your life.

665
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: No, I because I didn't know about babies dying. I

666
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: didn't know about.

667
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: That, And.

668
00:38:58,520 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: You just really had a sense that the bad.

669
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: I felt like God was warning me because he knows that,

670
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: like anyone who knows me.

671
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 2: Now, I don't want.

672
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: Huge surprises, because especially shocking things. It doesn't matter if

673
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm going in for dental work, I'm like, tell me

674
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: exactly when you put it you're putting the shot in,

675
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: like I want to know, or like anytime I'm getting

676
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: blood work or anything. I'm like, you need to tell

677
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: me when.

678
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: You're doing it.

679
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: There's there's no doubt that's a condition trauma you experienced

680
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 3: as a young per Oh.

681
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So I'm like, and tell me it's gonna hurt, like,

682
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: don't sugarcoat it, Like, you tell me exactly what this

683
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: procedure will feel like. So the day before that had happened,

684
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: and then we get a call. So I'm trying to

685
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: read in the book What to Expect When Not Expecting,

686
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: and there's like a half page on oh, sometimes babies

687
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: die or sometimes there's problems, and there's like a half

688
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: page and it said something about the kidneys, but then

689
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: it said, oh, they could be born with clubbed feet,

690
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, So we go in.

691
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 3: To come out kidneys can make club feet.

692
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. And that's how ridiculous that.

693
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 3: I got it. Okay, sorry, but that just how in

694
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 3: the world does that happen? But you're just saying, they

695
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: give you all this list of things that can happen

696
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 3: to babies, and it's a horrible.

697
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: Knowing what I know now, And we'll get to the

698
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 1: rest of the story. It's just like, thank you. This

699
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: book is not meant for people who have complications of

700
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: their pregnancy. There's other books like A Gift of Time

701
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: I'll just recommend, but there's other books for people who

702
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: have complications of their pregnancies. But so we go to

703
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: the perinetologist and he said, your baby doesn't have kidneys,

704
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: which basically means I have no amniotic fluid. So the

705
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: mom produces the amniotic fluid, the baby drinks it, and

706
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: then they basically pee it out and then they drink

707
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: it and pee it out and that's what develops the lungs.

708
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: So things that you know you don't know. You don't

709
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: learn that in school.

710
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: And so if they don't have kidneys that function stop.

711
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 2: It's not happening.

712
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: And so it's mainly lung development isn't happening. And he said,

713
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: you know your baby's breach. Your baby will never turn

714
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: and he said you know most women and I said,

715
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: don't say it. And he said what did you think

716
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: I was going to say? And I said, if you're

717
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: telling me to terminate the pregnancy, I won't do that.

718
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, you're going to be walking around

719
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: pregnant and everyone's going.

720
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: To be asking like what you know when a you do?

721
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 1: And he said, and then this baby's breach, so you'll

722
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: have to have a sea section and you'll always have

723
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: to have sea sections. And he was like scaring me

724
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: into it, and I just knew that I'm not going

725
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: to make any decisions because what if they're wrong, or

726
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: what if a miracle would happen. So we decided that

727
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: we would carry the baby. And he was right in

728
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 1: the sense that people were asking, oh, when are you new,

729
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: and I'd have to buy maternity clothes and I just

730
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: never went up to the just store anymore.

731
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: I have my husband do that.

732
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: So they wouldn't talk to me about it, and I

733
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: just tried to carry on as best I could. So

734
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: at that point, I'm twenty two weeks into the pregnancy,

735
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: and then we were told that babies with this condition

736
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: usually go and you go into labor mid thirty weeks

737
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: into the pregnancy.

738
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: And I'm doing math, so weeks is seven and a

739
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 3: half months, yes, right, twenty eight yeah.

740
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, probably, yeah, it'd be about eight months actually, Okay,

741
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: So I was due December fifth, but then I went

742
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: into labor on October twenty fifth, so I was So

743
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: I went into labor, and I had heard about an

744
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: organization called Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, and

745
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: they provide remembrance portraits to parents experiencing the death of

746
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: a baby. And there's the potographers who volunteer their time

747
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: and go into hospitals who capture the only moments parents

748
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: spend with their babies. And a friend had told me

749
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: about them, and this was back in two thousand and seven.

750
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: The organization was founded in two thousand and five. And

751
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: at first I thought, why would you do that? But

752
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: I went to the website and saw these gorgeous photographs,

753
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: and I thought I should at least get it done

754
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: because I don't have to look at them.

755
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: But this will be my only opportunity to.

756
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 3: Interrupt you, for sure. I when I first started view,

757
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 3: I went to now I lay me down to sleep,

758
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 3: and I read about the fact that this is volunteer

759
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 3: photographers going into one of the most desperate, sad times

760
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 3: of people they don't even know lives and sucking it

761
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 3: up and providing pictures for folks who were in a

762
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 3: very traumatic, sad situation, which to me is phenomenal that

763
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: it is people would volunteer do that. I also found

764
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 3: out that it is the largest volunteer organization for photography

765
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: in the world. Isn't that right? Is that stout about right?

766
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: I think that's right.

767
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, I think that's right.

768
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that's right. So I want to say

769
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: that first, and I don't mean this any other way

770
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: except I just I want to tell you when I

771
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: first heard that, I couldn't help, but think is that appropriate?

772
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: And I don't want you to take that wrong. But

773
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 3: I'm just my first blush was you're taking a picture

774
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 3: of a passed away infant, and it it on the surface.

775
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 3: When you first hear it, I couldn't help but kind

776
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 3: of recoil from that and think, oh, my gosh, how

777
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 3: do you how do you do that? And how does

778
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 3: a volunteer who doesn't even know these people they're taking

779
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 3: these pictures of I struggled with it until I heard

780
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 3: and read some of your words. So right now, when

781
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 3: people hear what you've said before they've heard anything else,

782
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: They've heard that you carried a child that had almost

783
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 3: no percent chance of survival, that your husband went to

784
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: buy maternity clothes at the counter because you just couldn't

785
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 3: deal with the questions anymore, which I don't know he

786
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 3: dealt with the questions, because I'm sure somebody said, oh,

787
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: is your wife pregnant? Are you excited? And everything else,

788
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 3: and he had to suck it up and the pain

789
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 3: of that. But you guys, as a couple, making the

790
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: decision to hold on that pregnancy because is maybe the

791
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 3: doctors could be wrong, which I find heroic that you

792
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 3: would put yourself through that on the off chance that

793
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 3: your child may survive, and then preparing and and at

794
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 3: the at the advent of the birth and the child's

795
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 3: death to take pictures of that moment, which is to

796
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 3: me documenting pain. That's how I felt it when I

797
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 3: heard it, but once I read more, it was very

798
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 3: much the opposite. And but as our listeners are hearing it,

799
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 3: I gotta believe many of them are going, oh my gosh,

800
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 3: how do you that's almost ghoulish. But I want you

801
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 3: to tell our listeners why I am in anybody thinking

802
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 3: that when they hear the story, are so dead wrong?

803
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: Sure well, I think sharing a little bit more in

804
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: my story too would help really answer that question. I

805
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 1: do want to back up a bit and just say

806
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: that I know what it's like to be in that

807
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: room with a doctor and they're encouraging, you know, termination,

808
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: And I know that there are many many parents who

809
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: have made that decision, and I just want to make

810
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: sure that they know, you know, they needed to make

811
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: whatever the best decision was for them. I also know

812
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: what it's like to sit there and be pressured to

813
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: do it. So the choice I made is not to

814
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: not value other people's choices what they made. I just

815
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 1: I wanted to acknowledge that for sure.

816
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 3: It was just the best choice for you.

817
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: It was the best choice for me. But it's exactly

818
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: exactly because I was freaked out. He scared me, and

819
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: so I completely understand why some people would go a

820
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: different route than me. So I do want to say that, which.

821
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 3: I think is important. And I appreciate you saying that

822
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 3: nobody needs to feel guilty about decisions they've had to

823
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: make in horrifically traumatic situations. And you're not casting stones,

824
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 3: You're saying that was the best decision for you and

825
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 3: Rob at the time.

826
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly.

827
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: And so David came on October twenty, two thousand and seven,

828
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: and we had a photographer capture our time with him,

829
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: and we got the pictures and they were and still

830
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: are the best gift we could have been given.

831
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: They are treasured.

832
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: Having those photographs doesn't document death.

833
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: It captures love.

834
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: It documents David's existence, that he existed, He was still born,

835
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: he never received a birth certificate, but he existed, he lived,

836
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: He lived inside of me. And so for the parents

837
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: who lose a baby, whether they're still born or they

838
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: die shortly after birth, a lot of times people don't

839
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: fully understand the magnitude. But these photographs absolutely show like

840
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: this baby was real, this baby was mine. He had dark,

841
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: curly hair, chubby cheeks.

842
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 2: And.

843
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have known that if we would have chosen

844
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: other paths. And those photographs will always be my most

845
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: treasured possession.

846
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 3: We'll be right back.

847
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many family or how many

848
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: parents have reached out to now I lay me down

849
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: to sleep, who lost babies decades ago, who they weren't

850
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: even allowed to hold their baby, and just seeing those

851
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: photographs helps them with their healing, even though they don't.

852
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 3: Have those photographs David's photographs.

853
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: David's or other babies baby, just seeing those helps them

854
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: heal from just a different time when the babies were

855
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: swept away. But it's actually if you look at the

856
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: history of photography, typically because it was so expensive, there's

857
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: a whole collection of post mortem photography from the late

858
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, and people usually received photographs

859
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: after someone died, right.

860
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 3: Remember the Western photographs of loved ones in caskets.

861
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, or they would kind of set them up as

862
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: if they were alive. There's a whole history and information

863
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: about that. But then when people weren't I don't know

864
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: what years it would have been, but people used to

865
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: prepare bodies for burial in their homes.

866
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 2: That's why it's called a parlor.

867
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: But then when it started moving to the hospitals, then

868
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: death was treated very differently. And so then you have

869
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: these moms losing babies, and I've seen these postmortem photography

870
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: sessions with babies, like you know, even like two year

871
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: olds who die, and it's I think that really changed

872
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: how we view death. And so really having these photographs

873
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: are the best thing. And I we even have a

874
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: board member at now I lay me down to sleep

875
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: who said he's like the first I thought that was morbid,

876
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 1: Like why would I do something like that? And those

877
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: are those photographs are the best gift that he could

878
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 1: have been given.

879
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 3: If to tell me about if you have any recollection

880
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,919
Speaker 3: of it. But I want to know about the photographer.

881
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 3: I want to know about the person who took your

882
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 3: who took David's pictures with you? And Rob, sure, how

883
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: I'm no photographer. I can't even operate the camera on

884
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 3: my phone. I don't even know how to operate my

885
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 3: phone on an airplane. I don't I can answer it.

886
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 3: That's as far as my phone operations go okay, I

887
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 3: can't take pictures. But even if I was a photographer,

888
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 3: I would think I would have a huge lump in

889
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 3: my throat and some reticence and anxiety over going in

890
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: to two parents. I guess, hospital room with a child,

891
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 3: and how do you do that? How did what was

892
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 3: that like? What was that experience for you? From that

893
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 3: you could tell from that photographer's perspective, how did that go?

894
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: Well, it was a beautiful experience. And it's okay if

895
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: I share Now, I am now the CEO of now

896
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: I leat me down to sleep.

897
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: Well, I think.

898
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 2: We will. I think.

899
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: Sandy Push is one of the founders of Now I

900
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: Let Me Down to Sleep, and I so that I

901
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: want to speak to my personal experience, but this is

902
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: every I want to talk about every photographer that we

903
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: have with this organization, albeit photography conventions.

904
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,959
Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, I could never do that. I'd

905
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: be too emotional.

906
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: And you know, Sandy, she had tears in her eyes

907
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: during the session and that made me know she cared.

908
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 1: And so photographers that volunteer with this organization.

909
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: Have such heart and compassion.

910
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: But typically what happens is they go into the room,

911
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: and they have a job to do. They have a skill,

912
00:53:55,480 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: they have a talent of photography, and they know that

913
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: this is the best thing they can do with their camera.

914
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 1: We hear that over and over and over from our

915
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: volunteer photographers that they can as a volunteer photographer, they

916
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: can go in and give parents their most prized possession.

917
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 1: Who wouldn't do that if you have a talent of photography,

918
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: who wouldn't go and do something that would very dramatically

919
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: change the healing journey for a family to have those photographs.

920
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: And we have many photographers that say if they did

921
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,240
Speaker 1: not photograph any other type of photography, they would still

922
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: always volunteer with Now I lay me down to sleep

923
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: because it's that powerful. So oftentimes, you know, you think about, oh,

924
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: that would be hard to go in to those sessions,

925
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: but our photographers just take their camera as kind of

926
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: like kind of a shield, are a barrier, and they're

927
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: they're in there getting a job done. It's typically after

928
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: the session it'll hit them, or when they're looking at

929
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: the images and doing the retouching that's when it hits them.

930
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 3: And Gina, it's job's one thing these folks are volunteering

931
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: to do this. They are, that is phenomenal, they.

932
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: Are, yeah, And it was me away who was your photographer?

933
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: It was Sandy Putch, who's one of the founders.

934
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 3: And that's a sandy male female.

935
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 2: A female female.

936
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 3: Yes, And how did she present herself when she came in?

937
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 3: And had you met her prior?

938
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: I did meet her prior. That never really happens.

939
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: This was a kind of a different situation because hey,

940
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: let's go back to my time, my journalism time at

941
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: Colorado State.

942
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 2: The executive director of.

943
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep happened to be

944
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,919
Speaker 1: in the journalism program with me and at Campus TV.

945
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 1: So when I called now I Lay Me Down to Sleep,

946
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: Jessica called me back and she said, is this Gina

947
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: And my last name is Harris Now And I'm like,

948
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: how do you know that's me? But she knew my voice,

949
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: and so we made the connection. And she had been

950
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 1: working at a Denver TV station, but she just wanted

951
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: to change a pace and she was running the organization.

952
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: So she asked me if I would do.

953
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: Some interviews with the La Times and nine News in Denver.

954
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: And so at first sight, I didn't know if I

955
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: wanted this story all over. But I thought, what are

956
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 1: the odds that I know Jessica and I know she's

957
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: not going to be me to the wolves with the media,

958
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: and so we did the story, so we had I

959
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,479
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to meet Sandy. But that's never really

960
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: the case with families who was a baby. Typically they

961
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: don't know about the organization ahead of time. They're in

962
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: the hospital delivering the baby, and that's when the nurse

963
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: will talk to them about Now I leat me down

964
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: to sleep, and then dispatch AUP photographer to come and

965
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: photograph to call.

966
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so.

967
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 3: A photograph for sitting at home. And they're part of

968
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 3: the they're seventeen hundred photographers volunteering for Now I lay

969
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: me down to sleep, understand, And so they're on call

970
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 3: and the traumatic happens, and the hospital calls and says,

971
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 3: we have a family, and they gather up and roll

972
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 3: and they don't know, and the family doesn't know, and

973
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 3: this volunteer goes into a family in the midst of

974
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 3: all of this and creates photos for the family. To me,

975
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 3: that is extraordinary. It is extraordinary from the family perspective.

976
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 3: It's also extraordinary from the photographer's perspective, and it's extraordinary

977
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 3: from now I lay me down to sleeves perspective that

978
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 3: they're able to volunteer and give to grieving parents, like

979
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 3: you've said, their most prosed possession, which is a remembrance

980
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 3: that this child was real and lived beautiful.

981
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't think our photographers enough and it's exactly

982
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: how you describe it. In the US alone, there are

983
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: forty thousand babies that are still born or die shortly

984
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: after birth, and we serve more than four thousand a year.

985
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: And since the organization started, we photographed more than seventy

986
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: thousand babies, all by volunteers. And what they do is remarkable,

987
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: it's incredible. And I've been with the organization now, I've

988
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: known about it for fifteen years, but with organization for

989
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: almost twelve, and I still it's.

990
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 2: Still just.

991
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: Really I don't know if surprises me. It's just is

992
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: really meaningful to know what they do.

993
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't have said it better myself. Absolutely amazing what

994
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 3: those folks do. And that concludes Part one of my

995
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 3: conversation with Gina Harris, and I really hope you'll listen

996
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 3: to part two that's now available. This amazing story is

997
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 3: far from over. Guys,