1 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and 3 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community. 4 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome back. This is rad and this is another 5 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: episode of soft Rep Radio. I want to remind you 6 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 2: to go check out our book club at soft reap 7 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: dot com book hyphen Club. You guys know what it is. 8 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: Go check out the book club. We also have the 9 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: merch store where we have branded goods from soft Rep 10 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: that you guys have been like tagging me on the 11 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: internet in keep that up and you know, maybe we'll 12 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: pick someone to win a prize. Keep tagging. Today's guest 13 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: is someone special because he's just a human being on 14 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 2: this earth who was tasked with raising his hand to 15 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: defend his country that he chose to do and decided 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: to go to college and become an officer in the military. 17 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: And so I have Colonel Roland J. Tisso, Junior United 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: States Army, retired author. You know he is going to 19 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: be let me go over as a background here. Colonel 20 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: Roland Tisso was commissioned a second lieutenant of Infantry upon 21 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: his graduation from the Virginia Military Institute in nineteen seventy three. 22 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: He commanded infantry companies in Korea and the United States, 23 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: the first Battalion, five O eighth Airborne Infantry in Panama, 24 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: and United States Task Force Sinai, Multinational Force and Observers 25 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: in Egypt. He was the Chief of War Plans Division, 26 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: US Central Command in nineteen ninety six ninety seven and 27 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: was one of the primary planners of the Iraq War Plan. 28 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: He was Executive Officer to the Commander of the US 29 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: Central Command nineteen ninety eight to two thousand. He's a 30 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: graduate of the US Army War College, the Command and 31 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: General Staff College, and the Armed Forces College. The show 32 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: is over, Holy Cow. Welcome to the show, Colonel Roland. Sir, dude, Sarah, 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: thank you very much. 34 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: Read I hope you had fun with that. 35 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 2: I had fun with that, you know. I read it 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: like five times before we were going to meet up, 37 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: and I thought I had it like a breeze. But 38 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: as I'm reading it, you have quite the resume. And 39 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: as a young man, let me just hit you right, 40 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: as a young man, you're sixteen years old. Are you 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: in like boy scouts? Are you swimming? What are you 42 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: doing at sixteen seventeen before you go off to high school, 43 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: college graduation. 44 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting you should ask that that particular period 45 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 3: between sixteen and the time I entered the Army, my 46 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: principal focus was sports. And I went to school at 47 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: that time at a place called Pellam Memorial High School 48 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 3: in Westchester County in New York, and again the principal 49 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 3: focus was football, wrestling, boxing, believe it or not, and 50 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 3: track and field. All of that served me very very 51 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: well for a decision that I had made many many 52 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: years before, and that was to become a soldier. And 53 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: so armed with that, I entered the Army and then 54 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 3: the Virginia Military Institute in nineteen sixty nine. So you 55 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 3: enlisted initially, but that was very short lived, primarily because 56 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: of my football background. The Army decided that, you know, 57 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: maybe I could play football for them, but there was 58 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 3: no room at the United States Army Preparatory School. So 59 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 3: I ended up on a bus to a place that 60 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: I hold an extremely high esteem, and that was the 61 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: Virginia Military Institute, and I was commissioned a second lieutenant 62 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: from there in nineteen seventy three. 63 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: So you're definitely a Vietnam baby. 64 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, my actions all occurred after the conflict, 65 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: but my brother served there, and I'm very very proud 66 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: of him, very very proud of my family's legacy with 67 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: respect to service. My father and his four brothers all 68 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 3: served in the Great World War Two. They are my heroes, 69 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 3: and they were the basis upon my decision very early 70 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 3: in life to become a soldier. 71 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: That's very powerful. I also joined because of the family. 72 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 2: My father former Green Beret, and I just idolized that 73 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: that was my father, you know, my hero and my 74 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: grandfather World War two Navy. My dad also Vietnam Navy. 75 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: So you just have this legacy. And then to come 76 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: to find out later in life after my dad was adopted, 77 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: didn't find out his dad until he had died. But 78 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: his dad was in Vietnam the same year he was 79 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: in Vietnam, and he never knew that. It's like they 80 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: were just going to pass each other. So there's just 81 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: this weird legacy. You know, I'm wearing a Tiger stripe 82 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: right now. I just can't help it. I'm a seventies child. 83 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: So before I get into the hard hitting stuff with you, 84 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 2: when you decided to go infantry, was that because you 85 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 2: just wanted to go infantry or you pulled out a 86 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 2: basic infantry. I'm curious about that. Is that like a 87 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: job that you chose. 88 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: Well the you know, I mentioned my legacy, very very 89 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: proud of my father and his brothers, But my father 90 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: was an infantry. When he initially went in the army, 91 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,679 Speaker 3: he was assigned, believe it or not, to the coastal 92 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 3: artillery because he was a phenomenal mechanically inclined individual, and 93 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: he became an expert on all weapons, from the sixteen 94 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 3: inchers that we all know from the battleships, but were 95 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 3: also the big coastal artillery guns, right down to the 96 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: small arms of the day, the Grand the three Springfield, 97 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: the Thompson machine gun. And he could take those things 98 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 3: and put them back to take them apart, put them 99 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: back together again, fixed them. He was an amazing man 100 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: that way. But as the war progressed, he was tired 101 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: of sitting in Connecticut, where he actually engaged a German 102 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 3: submarine off the coast. But that was not enough for him, 103 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 3: so he volunteered for the infantry and was decorated for 104 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: heroism during the Central European Campaign in nineteen forty four 105 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 3: forty five that I thought was the standard. Along with 106 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 3: my uncle Mark, who was very badly wounded fighting with 107 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 3: the twenty ninth Infantry Division during the assault on the 108 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 3: Sigfried Line. They were my heroes, and I thought, you 109 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 3: know what, that's what I want to be. I want 110 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: to be an infantry officer, and that's what I put 111 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: all of my efforts toward on the athletic fields and 112 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: eventually on the drill fields of the Virginia Military Institute. 113 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: Now let's flash forward two thousand and one, nine to eleven. 114 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: So I remember I was in bed. My dad woke 115 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: me up. He's like, hey, Aaron, wake up, turn the 116 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: TV on. We were watching the TV of the first 117 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: tower smoking second one guy hit. At that moment, he 118 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: looked at me and he just said, we're under attack. 119 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. Let me tell you that was quite an eye opener. 120 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 3: And for me, I had just arrived at United States 121 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: Central Command the month before, having successfully commanded United States 122 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: Task Force Sinai. I was very, very proud of having 123 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 3: been selected for that assignment, where by the way, I 124 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: also served as the chief of Staff of the moment 125 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: the National Force, and of course I speak about that 126 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 3: in the book that I wrote in Strange Company. But 127 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 3: I was sitting in my office on eleven September, and 128 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: I actually had the news on when the first aircraft 129 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: hit the building, and I thought to myself, oh my god, 130 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 3: what a terrible, terrible accident. And I said that because 131 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 3: you may not be aware of this, but in nineteen 132 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 3: forty five, I believe it was a B seventeen bomber 133 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 3: on its way back from Europe that had flown into 134 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 3: the Empire State Building, a similar kind of event. But 135 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 3: then the second plane hit and I got up from 136 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: behind my desk and I walked into my boss's office 137 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: and I said, sir, something's not right, and I believe 138 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 3: we've been attacked. And then, of course, shortly after that, 139 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: the truth became known, and we started gearing up at 140 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 3: United States Central Command to deploy a forward headquarters to Afghanistan. 141 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 3: And the rest is history. 142 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: And you talk about this history, and you mentioned it 143 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: in Strange Company. I do want to mention that you've 144 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: wrote a book and you're out there talking about this 145 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 2: and wanting to let people know about it. And I 146 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: don't forget about that, you know, I just want folks 147 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: to know that you started out without really a recruiter 148 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: coming at you. Except for your family wanting to join 149 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: the military. You had this passion, and I want to 150 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: reignite that passion with someone who may listen to this 151 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: and they may want to join and take that next step. So, 152 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: you know, we need those constitution fighters out there. 153 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: Well, I think that's particularly important, and especially today. You know, 154 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: I am very very concerned about what's going on in 155 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: today's armed forces, and I believe that some of the 156 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 3: policies that we've seen of late have led to a 157 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: lot of young men, and I say, men, we need 158 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 3: men in our Army and our Marine Corps and the 159 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 3: other services to look elsewhere to not want to serve 160 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: in given what they have seen of late. And it's 161 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 3: something that I understand and something that I think will 162 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 3: change very shortly, because let me tell you, rad as 163 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: you well know. You know, the enemy has a vote 164 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: in how we perform on the battlefield. And right now, 165 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: I am very very concerned that the status of readiness 166 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 3: of our armed forces, and I'm particularly the Army and 167 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 3: the Marine Corps, those ground combat organizations that are manpower intensive, okay, 168 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 3: is not up to snuff. I think that far too 169 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 3: much time is being placed on nonsensical issues that frankly, 170 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 3: are driving a lot of our young men, as I 171 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 3: indicated previously, to think about doing other things. I believe 172 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: that will change. I believe that will change perhaps in 173 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, when we might be seeing a change 174 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 3: in leadership. I don't know, but I'm certainly hopeful of that. 175 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: As a colonel, someone who climbed that grade ladder, you know, 176 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 2: with all diligence, if some congress could hold up three 177 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 2: hundred appointments just because they want to be able to 178 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: play games with your job, that would make you, with 179 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: all of this knowledge and all of this schooling and 180 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: all of this leadership, maybe look to the civilian market 181 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: versus like, Hey, why would I want to work for 182 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 2: someone who can just like put the thumb on me 183 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: when I'm supposed to be the one to the oppressed. 184 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 3: Well, I would only say this, I am familiar with 185 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 3: the issue that you just raised, and I always viewed 186 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 3: that as a temporary situation that certain congressmen engaged in 187 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 3: in order to perpetrate a positive action on the part 188 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 3: of our administration and perhaps our military to do other 189 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: things that they thought were badly needed. And I'm inclined 190 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 3: to think, as I just said, are very badly needed. 191 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 3: But having said that, I think that young men today 192 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 3: are not going to be overly concerned with that particular issue. Ultimately, 193 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 3: the United States armed forces have always dealt with our 194 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 3: Congress and with civilian leaders, a number of whom, unfortunately 195 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 3: true today, don't know one end of a rifle from 196 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 3: the other, and never walked a mile in yours or 197 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: my shoes, or the shoes of countless other millions who 198 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 3: have in fact served this nation. And so to the 199 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 3: young folks out there who think otherwise, I am inclined 200 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 3: to say, Look, you know, in nineteen sixty one a 201 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 3: man stood up who was a Democratic president, and he said, 202 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: you know, ask not what your country can do for you, 203 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: ask what you can do for your country. And I 204 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 3: think that that holds true, not only for the time 205 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 3: that he raised that in nineteen sixty one, but it 206 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 3: certainly holds true today. We will continue, as senior officers 207 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 3: to deal with the Congress, and they will be as 208 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: irresponsible as they were in seventeen eighty one when they 209 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: we're not paying our army, and Washington had to do 210 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 3: everything he could to keep an army in the field 211 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 3: during the Treaty of Paris discussions that eventually ended the war. 212 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 3: We've always dealt with these things read and our nation 213 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 3: will ultimately prevail. But we need young men, and we 214 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 3: need them now to recognize that they need to serve 215 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: their country. That freedom isn't free. 216 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: Just to keep the country ready, that's right, just to 217 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: keep the country ready. You know, we may not even 218 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: be per se at war, but you have to keep 219 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: all the stuff oiled and you know running, and the 220 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: key's got to turn inside the machine so that it 221 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: can turn on when that action happens. And so you know, 222 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: you could totally go talk to a career counselor at 223 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: a recruiting station and see if they can offer you 224 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: some type of a technical job welding, diesel mechanic. You know, 225 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 2: all these different things can help you when you go 226 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: outside of the military sector to civilian world. You're doing 227 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: right now. You went from being really the top of 228 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: the league, top of your game in the military too. 229 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: What am I doing today? You know, I'm out of 230 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: the military. You know, it's like I've retired. It's like, wait, 231 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: do I wake up and shuffle up and jump with 232 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: the guys again, will they notice me if I go? 233 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: You know, well, I was. 234 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 3: Very fortunate in that regard. I very reluctantly left the 235 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: Army mandatorily retired, as you know. But interestingly enough, after 236 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 3: I was handed a flag by a young a young 237 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 3: soldier and thank for my service. I walked out to 238 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 3: the parking lot to jump into my vehicle, and I 239 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 3: was approached by a very fine fellow who had been 240 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 3: an intelligence officer and had been my control when I 241 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: went to Somalia in nineteen ninety four. He said, hey, Roland, 242 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 3: how you doing? He said, what are you going to do? 243 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 3: I understand that you're being made to retire and I said, yes, 244 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 3: that's true, and I don't have a clue right now, 245 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: but I'll figure it out. And he said, well, let 246 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: me help you. It turned out that at that particular juncture, 247 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 3: in two thousand and four, and ten years after he 248 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: had been my control while I was in Somalia, he 249 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: said he was now a program manager for a defense 250 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: contractor working at United States Central Command doing intelligence planning. Well, 251 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 3: as you know, rad, I am a planner. I'm an 252 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: operations planner. However, when I pointed that out to him, 253 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 3: he looked at me, and he said, Hey, Roland, don't 254 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: worry about that. Our plan shop desperately needs you. Would 255 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: you like to have a job, And I said, well sure. 256 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 3: So for the next eleven years I worked as an 257 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 3: intelligence planner and analyst, and that allowed me the opportunity 258 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 3: to continue to work with a soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines, 259 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 3: and I deployed on five more occasions, Pakistan to Afghanistan, 260 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 3: one time to Pakistan, and then later as a private 261 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 3: defense contractor. After I left United States Central Command. When 262 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 3: our contract ended, I went to Iraq to serve eighteen 263 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 3: months supporting the Iraqi Air Force. So I was very, 264 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 3: very fortunate in the aftermath of my career. And then 265 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 3: when I left defense contracting in twenty twenty, I decided 266 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 3: a year later to pick up where I had left off, 267 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 3: and that was writing a book that I had started, 268 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: believe it or not, in two thousand and five. I 269 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: had put it away in two thousand and eight in 270 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 3: order to go overseas as a defense contractor, and so 271 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one I picked it back up, and 272 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 3: lo and behold, it caught the fancy of Casemate publishers 273 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: and it was copyrighted in twenty twenty three and released 274 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 3: on the fifteenth of January of this year. So I've 275 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 3: been very very busy. 276 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 2: I have it right here, it's on my phone, and 277 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 2: so it's in strange company an American soldier with multinational 278 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 2: forces in the Middle East and Iraq, and the cover 279 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: is littered with all of the isaf right, is that 280 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 2: what we're going to, we would say, is the security forces, 281 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 2: the International Security Assistant Force. 282 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly right. And of course at the very top 283 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 3: of that, of course, is the emblem of which we 284 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 3: are most proud, and that is the flag of the 285 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 3: United States of America. But flanking it, of course, are 286 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 3: two very very key countries that served in the multi 287 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 3: national division the Central South, to which I was assigned 288 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 3: as a senior advisor, Those being the country of Ukraine, 289 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 3: which is to the left of our flag, and to 290 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 3: the right the Polish flag. The Poles, of course, I 291 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 3: would submit to you, along with Great Britain, one of 292 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 3: our staunchest allies. And I was very very proud to 293 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 3: serve with these exceptional soldiers, and very proud. I don't 294 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 3: normally say this rad but both of those countries saw 295 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: fit to have me decorated for the services that I provided, 296 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 3: both in combat and on the staff. I'm immensely proud 297 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 3: of those decorations, and am very very proud of the 298 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 3: Ukrainian and Polish people, not only for what they have 299 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 3: done in Iraq, but what they are currently doing the Poles, 300 00:19:55,160 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 3: of course, in NATO and my Ukrainian comrade. It's fighting 301 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 3: so gallantly against Putin and his Russia. 302 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: And his evilness and his autocracy and all his This 303 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: is my land and I want the empire. I don't 304 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 2: want to get into that. I want to talk to 305 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: you a little bit about well. I mean, I do 306 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 2: want to get into it. I love your opinion on it, 307 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: and I think we can agree that I don't want 308 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 2: to fight here in the US. I was talking to 309 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: a friend of mine just the other day getting an 310 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: oil change. This is the same guy I talked about 311 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: it before on another show. I said, are we really 312 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: ready for our cal ranch right there just to get 313 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 2: blown apart while we're talking? And he just looks at me. 314 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not ready for like a missile just 315 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: to come sailing into us. And I said, that's what's 316 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: happening over there now. Either we put effort into them 317 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: to support them and keep it over there and keep 318 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 2: that fight pushed away from our shores, or it's going 319 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 2: to be too late here. If we have it here, 320 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 2: it's too late. That's my opinion. 321 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: Well, I have to agree with you. As a matter 322 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 3: of fact, I would submit that America's policy since nineteen 323 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: forty five, when we you know, during the Cold War, 324 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 3: which started, as you know, in nineteen forty five and 325 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 3: I suppose technically ended in nineteen eighty nine with the 326 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: or off the Wall and the dissolution of of the 327 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 3: Soviet Empire, we always had a force's forward strategy, which meant, 328 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 3: of course that we kept a good portion of our 329 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 3: army in Central Europe and in Korea, and of course 330 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 3: we still maintained forces in both of those places, as 331 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 3: well as in bases around the world. All of this, 332 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 3: of course, is oriented on ensuring that we can respond 333 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 3: and to do so very very quickly, as opposed to 334 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 3: having to one move a large number of forces from 335 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 3: the United States, which takes time, effort, money goes without 336 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 3: saying so to battle the evil that confronts us on 337 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 3: any given day forward, as opposed to on the shores 338 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 3: of the United States of America. 339 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 2: Jeez, you're great. I know we're not perfect in this life, 340 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: and I know there's people out there that are probably 341 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: your critics, and so let's ask some critical questions. Iraq 342 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: happens and we send over an ambassador that doesn't speak 343 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 2: any Arabic and he dismantles the bath party and fires 344 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: the army. How do you feel about that? Oh? 345 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's interesting. I discussed this a great deal, 346 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 3: A great deal in a strange company. As you know, 347 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 3: I was available once we redeployed the Peninsula Shield Force 348 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 3: to which was the Arab division in western Kuwait. I 349 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 3: was the senior advisor to the Saudi Arabian general that 350 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 3: commanded the Peninsula Shield Force. And after we redeployed those 351 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 3: forces home, I was available and they took a look 352 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 3: at me and said, you know, we've got just a 353 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: job for you. And I was flown into Baghdad, and 354 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 3: to make a long story short, I was assigned eventually 355 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 3: as the C three, that is, the operations officer. And 356 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 3: because we were so shorthanded, I was the chief of 357 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 3: staff of the Coalition Military Assistants Training Team this command, 358 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 3: and it was commanded eventually by a very very fine 359 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 3: major general who was a war college classmate of mine, 360 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 3: by the name of Major General Paul Eaton, was tasked 361 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: with the development of the new Iraqi Army. But I 362 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 3: should say that the decision to tear to eliminate the 363 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 3: Iraqi Army that was standing in the field was contrary 364 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 3: to all of the brain trust planning that had occurred 365 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 3: between nineteen ninety four and nineteen ninety eight, and that 366 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 3: planning called for a force that included some ten divisions 367 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: of the Iraqi Army, which of course we would have 368 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 3: purged of outright criminals and the light we would have 369 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 3: re armed them, reoriented them, placed advisors with each of 370 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 3: the divisions, and then used that manpower to protect the 371 00:24:53,520 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 3: borders of Iraq, to quell any Sunni Shia problems that 372 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 3: arose in the aftermath of Saddam Hussein's downfall, and provide 373 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 3: us with an opportunity in time to begin withdrawing our 374 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 3: own forces. As we developed further, this ten division army 375 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 3: into something even more credible to be a bulwark, particularly 376 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 3: against the enemy to the east, and that of course 377 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 3: is Iran. Back to the new Iraqi Army, everyone knew 378 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 3: that Iraq had to be able to protect itself at 379 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 3: some point, so we were told that we would develop 380 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 3: an army of forty thousand men that would be lightly armed, 381 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: would have no heavy weapons, no artillery, no air support, 382 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 3: but that now that Saddam was gone, everything would be fine. Well, 383 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 3: we started out on that task, but thanks to General Eaton, 384 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 3: in large measure, we started to upgun that force, and 385 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 3: by two thousand and four, after the new Iraqi Army's 386 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 3: initial units failed I suppose is the right word during 387 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 3: its battles in on the Jaff alongside US forces, they 388 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 3: didn't do very well. They weren't prepared for that kind 389 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 3: of fighting. The decision was made that we would upgun 390 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: that force, but it took a long time, and the 391 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 3: Iraqi Army wasn't I would dare say, a credible force 392 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 3: until well into the decade, and as you know, the 393 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: decision was made to withdraw US combat forces in large 394 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: measure by twenty eleven. By that time, a number of 395 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 3: the coalition, certainly the forces with which I had served 396 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 3: in the Multi National Division Central South and those others 397 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 3: that served in the Multi National Division Southeast, were withdrawn 398 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 3: by their respective countries in the meantime, we had had 399 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: a tremendous amount of Iranian infiltration in the country, and 400 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:28,239 Speaker 3: it was that Iranian infiltration infiltration put's force presence, the 401 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 3: presence of Shia and Sunni militants that this did not 402 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 3: like being an occupied country that saw us fighting a 403 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: war through the twenty eleven And it is my humble 404 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 3: belief that had we followed the plan, had we kept 405 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 3: the Iraqi army in place, cleaned it up, reoriented it, 406 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 3: rearmed it, and done the things that we were supposed 407 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 3: to do in accordance with a plan, to include having 408 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: a much larger force to occupy the country and plant 409 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 3: it down. It is my personal belief. And I suppose 410 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 3: it's arguable that we could have been out of Iraq 411 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: with the exception of a military support group of some 412 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 3: sort between two thousand and five and two thousand and six, 413 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 3: and a lot of young Americans would not have to 414 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,479 Speaker 3: have been killed or made as a result of the 415 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 3: extended war that we had there. 416 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 2: Oh wow, And my viewers, my listener, they're those privates, 417 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: They're the sergeants, They're the guys that were in Pallujah 418 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 2: and a Najev crossing the Tigris. All the phase lines 419 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: that you and your commanders were creating on the maps. 420 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 2: They were calling in phase line alpha Charlie Zulu time, 421 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: you know. And so those guys might be mad, but 422 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: I think they're only mad maybe because of the end 423 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: result versus the not battling next to their battle buddy. 424 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: They're not mad because they went to combat and fought 425 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: with their buddy and they had to stick together in 426 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 2: the trenches. I think they're upset that they maybe were 427 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 2: used when it could have been used less. 428 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 3: Or they could have been used better. That's what I 429 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 3: mean again and better appreciated. You know, I'm going to 430 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 3: tell you something, rad and again not everyone would agree 431 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 3: with me. But you know, as a young second lieutenant 432 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 3: and as a young cadet, I so enjoyed the stories 433 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 3: of my uncles and of course my father, who shared 434 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 3: them with me because they knew of my interests in 435 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 3: the army and in the army in particular and in 436 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 3: the military in general. And I thought to myself, you know, 437 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 3: someday I'm going to lead men into battle, and that's 438 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 3: what I want to do. You know, I'm going to 439 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 3: fight the enemies of the United States, and you know. 440 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 3: I will tell you that young officers in particular all 441 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 3: seek to be blooded in combat. Of course, I was 442 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 3: no exception. As a matter of fact, I would dare 443 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 3: say that I was the rule. But I was committed 444 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 3: to combat very early in my career, primarily small unit 445 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 3: actions in places like South America, which I would rather 446 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 3: not expound upon, but you know later in Panama, and 447 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 3: then of course what I saw in Somalia. As the 448 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 3: young second lieutenant or the young sergeant grows up as 449 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 3: a soldier, you know, he still feels the need to 450 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 3: be tested and to be proven. But the enthusiasm for 451 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 3: war is a rule. When you see what it's all about, 452 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 3: or perhaps you hold somebody in your arms who didn't 453 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 3: duck when he should have, brings a different perspective to 454 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 3: one's life. And I will tell you that I think 455 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: it's most unfortunate and our nation finds itself again on 456 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 3: the cusp of more combat and more a war that 457 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 3: will undoubtedly cause the severe wounds and death of the 458 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 3: cream of our youth. It bothers me, but I'm often asked, 459 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 3: particularly by the people who have read my book of 460 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 3: Late Roland, would you do it again? And I always 461 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 3: smile as I say, you know, I think I'd be 462 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 3: a heck of a lot smarter, but I'd do so 463 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 3: in an heartbeat. 464 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you have to make decisive decisions and move 465 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: forward with what happens next. You know, there's not a 466 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: crystal ball, and you can only Like the Kings of England, 467 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 2: I went and visited a castle and his only sanity 468 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: was sitting in a room for eight hours praying to 469 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: a god to talk to him about his entire troop 470 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 2: into battle as in this room. And I'm like, this 471 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 2: is the room where he decided hours upon end. He 472 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: was staying there for four or five hours, just praying, like, 473 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: tell me what to do. It's so wild how some 474 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 2: things are created war wise. You know what was his 475 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: Internet connection back then? 476 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 3: Well, you know, a wise man once said that the 477 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 3: brain is the most powerful the mind is the most 478 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 3: powerful weapon. You know, I never met a guy who 479 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 3: didn't believe in God in combat. And I know you've 480 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,239 Speaker 3: heard that phrase before, but I've got to tell you 481 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 3: it's true. I'll tell you a funny story. Rad and 482 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 3: I had the distinct privilege in honor of commanding the 483 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 3: five Away, their born infantry in Panama they're born and 484 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 3: thank you very much. And all the way, we used 485 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 3: to support the United States Army Jungles School, which at 486 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 3: that time was located at a place called Fort Sherman 487 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 3: the other side of Panama, the Atlantic. 488 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 4: Side, and that entailed a company plus of my battalion 489 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 4: and a part of the battalion staff to conduct a parachute. 490 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 3: Jump into a place we called a Gatoon drop zone, 491 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 3: which was right next to Gatoon Lake. And it was 492 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 3: you know, of course, it was Sunday, and like everybody 493 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 3: who prepares for a parachute jump or every unit, you 494 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 3: have to assemble at your packing point and your pre 495 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 3: deployment point very early in the morning for a mid 496 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 3: morning jump, and that pretty much eliminates the opportunity to 497 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 3: go to church. So I always used to coordinate to 498 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 3: have our very very good Catholic chaplain come down after 499 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 3: he would say, asked to come down to the hangar 500 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 3: where we were preparing to preparing our equipment to board 501 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 3: the C one thirties and conduct our parachute jump. And 502 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 3: it never ceased to amaze me that you not only 503 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 3: got the Catholic boys, but practically everybody knowing that they 504 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 3: were about to hurl themselves out of an airplane, and 505 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 3: regardless of how many times they had done it, you know, 506 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 3: hurling yourself out of an airplane is not exactly a 507 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 3: natural act. It is a very unnatural act. And we 508 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 3: do it because it's another way to get to the enemy. 509 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 3: And it requires a great deal of training and confidence 510 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 3: and orientation and courage, frankly, particularly for the kinds of 511 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 3: things that combat soldiers have to do. And so I 512 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 3: always found it interesting that everybody wanted to be a 513 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 3: little bit closer to God on those Sunday mornings when 514 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 3: we were going to jump into this God off it 515 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 3: drops on where you know, it wasn't exactly a cleared area, 516 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 3: you know, and I had guys who actually got lost 517 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 3: in the Kuni grass which was so darn high, and 518 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 3: the chance of going into the trees was very very good. 519 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 3: But I always got a big kick out of church 520 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 3: attendance on those days in the hangar, and it only 521 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 3: reinforced my belief that when the rubber meets the road, 522 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 3: everyone knows that the ranger six up there will look 523 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 3: out for you if you believe, and I have always believed, 524 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 3: and I'm here today to tell my story. 525 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 2: You know that's very very very cool, very team work oriented. 526 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 2: I would imagine, you know, even the guy that's like, 527 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 2: you know, agnostic or atheist and doesn't want to, you know, 528 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 2: deal with it, doesn't go to church normally, he's probably 529 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 2: standing around still like I could take some of this 530 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 2: good positive juju that you guys are all trying to 531 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: get going, and I can why not have a piece 532 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,439 Speaker 2: of it? You know? I tell people if if he's 533 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 2: real and I get to him, he or she and 534 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 2: God says, rad, you're a good dude. I'm totally what 535 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 2: you want from me. He's not. I tell you what. Okay. So, 536 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 2: and it's funny because I just learned that God was 537 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 2: added into the Pledge of Allegiance in nineteen fifty four. 538 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 2: It was indivisible, one nation indivisible, and then now it's 539 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 2: one nation under God indivisible. But what I like about 540 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 2: it is it's not just like one God. It is 541 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 2: God as like an overall definition. So we all know 542 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 2: that something's bigger than us. We don't have a definitive anything. 543 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: That's what's called faith. And so faith in something is 544 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,959 Speaker 2: the belief that helps put you forward with your front 545 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: foot so that you do the best you can every day. 546 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 2: I was raised very religious in a Mormon family, and 547 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: my dad was raised Catholic converted to be Mormon. And 548 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 2: now I just have my own belief of all that 549 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 2: stuff that's combined and just being a good person, you know. 550 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: And if you guys were all in the hangar saying 551 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 2: a prayer, I would have no problem piling up next 552 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 2: to you guys, shouldered his shoulder and saying, what do 553 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 2: I say here? 554 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 3: Well, there's one other thing about that story that I 555 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 3: need to tell you. Rat you would have loved powling 556 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 3: up to that crowd, because shortly after the reverend the 557 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 3: priest was done, he always had a few extra, very 558 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 3: small bottles of wine that he had not consecrated. And 559 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 3: he looked at me and he said, you know, Colonel, 560 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 3: with your permission, how about I toss out this extra 561 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 3: wine to the boys. Now, it was just not enough 562 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 3: there to throw anybody off. Yeah, so I said, knock 563 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 3: yourself out. And so if there any were any agnostics 564 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 3: or you know, atheists or whatever in the back of 565 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 3: the crowd, I can assure you they all found a 566 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 3: place in the crowd to get their little botty exactly. 567 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 2: You see, it's it's just about being neighborly and you know, 568 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 2: loving each other, but being ready to you know, destroy 569 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 2: the enemy. And you mentioned boxing earlier, right, And what 570 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 2: boxing does to bring this full circle for you is 571 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 2: that it builds you up to be violent, to be humble, 572 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,879 Speaker 2: so you don't have to use it because once you're 573 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: using boxing, it's not just one punch, it's multiple punches 574 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 2: and you know, some bobs and some weaves. In fact, 575 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: right before I got on the show with you, I 576 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 2: just came from boxing. 577 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 3: Oh well that's that's fantastic. Well, rat, As you well know, 578 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 3: all young officers, you know, whether it's the Virginia Military Institute, 579 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 3: the United States Military Academy, the citadel, the true additional 580 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 3: upbringing of a young officer calls for several courses of 581 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 3: instruction that go above and beyond the classroom. They include swimming. 582 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 3: The classically trained officer is expected to know how to swim, 583 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 3: primarily because he is required not only to be able 584 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 3: to fend for himself but also to teach his soldiers. 585 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 3: But above and beyond swimming, the first thing that the 586 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 3: young cadet at VMI or West Point is introduced to 587 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 3: is the boxing ring, because you want to develop the confidence, 588 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 3: the courage, the ability, the fourth rightness to hold your 589 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:54,439 Speaker 3: own and aggressively pursue your opponent there in the boxing ring, 590 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 3: but later down the road in combat as required. So 591 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 3: the fighting skills give way to the confidence and the courage, 592 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 3: the footwork, the physical ability, all of which boils down 593 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 3: to an officer in the future capable of doing what 594 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 3: Douglas MacArthur talked about in a quotation that he is 595 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 3: often attributed to him, and that is, on the fields 596 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,439 Speaker 3: of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other 597 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 3: fields and on other days are reaped the fruits the vicary. 598 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 3: I always viewed boxing in that light, much like I 599 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 3: did the football that I played. And oh, by the way, 600 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 3: rad at the Virginia Military Institute, you either defeated your 601 00:40:54,680 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 3: opponent or you bled in the f If you didn't 602 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 3: do one of those two things, you didn't pass and 603 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 3: you could look forward to taking the course again. 604 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 2: Oh it's serious business. Boxing is serious business. It's tougher 605 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 2: than MMA, and I'll say it right now on the 606 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 2: show because in MMA they get to tap out like 607 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 2: I'm gonna tap out, But in boxing it's like one two. 608 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,919 Speaker 2: Are you good? Walk to me? All right, you're fed up, bro, 609 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,320 Speaker 2: but you're still fighting, dude. You don't get to tap out, dude, 610 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 2: you get knocked out, or you take a knee, or 611 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 2: you get a towel thrown in, right, but that's like, 612 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 2: don't ever throw the towel. And obviously, you know, we 613 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 2: just lost Carl Weathers who played Apollo Creed you know, 614 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 2: and Predator Dylan and Predator with Donald Schwarzenegger and huge 615 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 2: boxing icon. 616 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I was very sad to see that. Of course, 617 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 3: I'm a big stallone fan between Rambow and Rocky. I mean, 618 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 3: who was a man's man, you know? Yeah, but yeah, 619 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 3: Carl Weather's played large in all of those Rocky one 620 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 3: through four. Yeah, I was very very sad to see that. 621 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 2: And a lead. You know, he was a lead in 622 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 2: the film. You know. It wasn't just like a small role. 623 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 2: It was Apollo. I want to fight Apolo. Apollo is 624 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 2: the man. I mean really he was yoked. I mean, 625 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 2: if that's the definition of a boxer, that body. I 626 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 2: am still working on it, but I've lost thirty pounds 627 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 2: since June of last year agoing, I've got about two 628 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 2: hundred times since I started boxing and I can't stop. 629 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 2: I'm just there's a switch. 630 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,839 Speaker 3: You know what did you say that? Because you need 631 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 3: to protect yourself and I can just defer back to 632 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 3: my book in Strange Company when I'm with the Peninsula 633 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 3: Shield Force. You probably read where I used to spend 634 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 3: the evenings when I would come off patrol in the 635 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 3: Western KUWAITI desert engaging on a number of different matters 636 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 3: in politics, family and social issues with my Arab comrades. 637 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 3: And of course they came from throughout the Gulf region, Kuwait, 638 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,240 Speaker 3: Sau Arabia, Oman and the United Arab Emirates boch Brain, 639 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:33,240 Speaker 3: just to name name several of them. And they always 640 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 3: used to ask me, you know, Colonel tisso why are 641 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 3: you always doing pull ups and running around the camp? 642 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 3: And I said, well, my brothers, you know you are 643 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 3: as officers expected to lead from the front. We have 644 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 3: to stay in shape. And on top of that, when 645 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 3: you are in good physical condition, you are better prepared 646 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 3: to deal with the stress of combat, which, as you know, 647 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 3: can be deadly. It can provoke heart attacks in the light. 648 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 3: And besides, you must be an example to your men 649 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 3: and look good in your uniform. You cannot be fat 650 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 3: and out of shape. But you know, Rad, I'm going 651 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 3: to tell you a story here. None of that really 652 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 3: communicated well with my Arab brothers. And knowing that, having 653 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 3: been amongst my Arab friends since nineteen ninety four up 654 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 3: until I was assigned to the Peninsula Shiel Force in 655 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 3: the spring of two thousand and three, I looked at 656 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 3: them and with a smile, I said, and beside, my brother, 657 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 3: if you remain in good shape, in good condition, you 658 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 3: will not have to ask me to supply you with 659 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 3: all these bottles of viagra. They were constantly asking me, 660 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,280 Speaker 3: ruland can you get some viagra for us? The very 661 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 3: next day, Rad, when I I was out doing my calisthenics, 662 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,320 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I saw fifty or sixty guys 663 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 3: running around the camp and doing something for their physical conditioning. 664 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 3: And so that's when it struck me or reinforced what 665 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 3: I always knew. You have to understand your audience, and 666 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 3: particularly when you're in strange company, you have to understand 667 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 3: what to say, what to do in order to convince 668 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,359 Speaker 3: them to do something that they may not want to do, 669 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 3: whether it's physical training or an attacking an objective of 670 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 3: some kind, and I found a way with regard to 671 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 3: physical training on that particular night, and they until we 672 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 3: stood the force down, they were out there running, joining 673 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 3: me at my pull up bar and doing whatever else 674 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:04,520 Speaker 3: they could to kind of improve their performance, perhaps not 675 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 3: in combat, but certainly in the bed. 676 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 2: I love that. Oh my god, that's great. You know 677 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 2: they didn't come back today. 678 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 3: Well, interestingly enough, not after that night. But I've always 679 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 3: had a lot of fun, and I have a great 680 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,319 Speaker 3: deal of respect for a number of the Arab officers 681 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,720 Speaker 3: with whom I serve In the spring of two thousand 682 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 3: and three, and I discuss all of that and in 683 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 3: some detail in the Strange Company. 684 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 2: Well, you know what Colonel tisso retired Roland, Sir dude, 685 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 2: I could say those things. I love my gig, I 686 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 2: do I do edwar tiger stripe at the same time. 687 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, being around all these different people, 688 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 2: and did you learn the language? Did you learn you 689 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 2: any Arabic to try to communicate with these guys and 690 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 2: have that. 691 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:12,320 Speaker 3: Well, interestingly enough, the short answer to that question is no. However, 692 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:19,839 Speaker 3: every officer or every soldier secundered to advisory duties picks 693 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 3: up a few words here and there you learn how 694 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 3: to greet them, you know how to say good night, 695 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 3: say thank you, all of those things. However, as I 696 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 3: point out in Strange Company, very early on, growing up 697 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 3: in Old New York, I was exposed to Spanish. I 698 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 3: grew up in the old ethnic neighborhoods of New York, 699 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 3: and of course there was a Hispanic neighborhood, there was 700 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,280 Speaker 3: a Polish neighborhood, a German neighborhood, of course, the Italian 701 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 3: neighborhood where my family was, the Black neighborhood. And we 702 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 3: played football in all of these neighborhoods. And as I 703 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 3: started to get more and more into football, you know, 704 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,800 Speaker 3: we didn't have the fancy machines back then if you 705 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 3: kids have today in the gyms, particularly to train the 706 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 3: inner legs. And I was a running back, and in 707 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 3: order to find ways to do that, I used to 708 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 3: run down to a place called Rye Beach, And during 709 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,799 Speaker 3: any given day there were a number of people who 710 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,319 Speaker 3: happened to be from Puerto Rico who used to be 711 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 3: on the beach there, and they used to play a 712 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 3: game called three sided handball, and I learned to play 713 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 3: very well. And in the course of that sports activity, 714 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,919 Speaker 3: I picked up a lot of Spanish. Then in high 715 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,839 Speaker 3: school I continued my study of Spanish, and when I 716 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 3: was eventually found myself at the Virginia Military Institute, I 717 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 3: was tested for a foreign language and I tested very 718 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 3: well in Spanish and ended up studying Spanish for another 719 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 3: four years. In the multi national division set South, there 720 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 3: were three brigades, the Ukrainian Brigade, Polish Brigade, and the 721 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:15,440 Speaker 3: Spanish Brigade. And in the Spanish Brigade were several Central 722 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 3: American armies L. Salvador, nic at Agua, Honduras, and the 723 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 3: Dominican Republic. And I had to advise each of the brigades, 724 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 3: and I went on a number of patrols with the 725 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:39,239 Speaker 3: Spanish as well as with the L. Salvadoran paratroopers. I 726 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,239 Speaker 3: was very very comfortable around the Elsals because they were 727 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 3: paratroopers and special forces, and they were very very fine soldiers. 728 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 3: A number of whom are the officers, that is and 729 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 3: the senior NCOs were combat veterans of the guerrilla war 730 00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 3: that had been fought in their country in the eighties 731 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,799 Speaker 3: and early nineties. And so the fact that I was 732 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,319 Speaker 3: able to do as well as I did with the 733 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,360 Speaker 3: Spaniards and with the Central American commanders was a direct result, 734 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,799 Speaker 3: I think of my ability to converse with them in 735 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,400 Speaker 3: their native language. Not only was it very much appreciated, 736 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,120 Speaker 3: but it helped me to be more convincing in what 737 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:26,800 Speaker 3: I thought they needed to do in order to better 738 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 3: conduct combat operations. And I'm very very proud of that. 739 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 2: I love that. And I also think that, like our leadership, 740 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,960 Speaker 2: needs to have a different language as well as English. 741 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,840 Speaker 2: I understand the English first push here in the US, 742 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 2: but it's okay if they speak Mandarin and also some 743 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,360 Speaker 2: Spanish or maybe some German, because there's nothing like having 744 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 2: a conversation with someone and not thinking they're talking behind 745 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:50,319 Speaker 2: your back. 746 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 3: Well, I absolutely concur with that. And you know, Mandarin 747 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 3: is considered one of the most difficult languages in the 748 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,880 Speaker 3: world to learn. For a young officer to be able 749 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,960 Speaker 3: to speak that very difficult and yet very very necessary 750 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,040 Speaker 3: language as we look at the future and our engagement 751 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 3: in the Pacific, I think the Army would be very 752 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,640 Speaker 3: very wise and all the services of course, to look 753 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:26,560 Speaker 3: at developing young speakers very early in their careers. You know, 754 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 3: I once had a very fine officer who I mentioned 755 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,440 Speaker 3: in strange company. He's a superb gentleman who went on 756 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,160 Speaker 3: to become a senior naval officer, who as a Russian 757 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,480 Speaker 3: Jew was he and his family were thrown out of 758 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:51,719 Speaker 3: Russia in the nineteen eighties by Putin or whoever at 759 00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:58,720 Speaker 3: that time, and they came to our great country. And 760 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 3: this fellow, and his name is Gary Tobak, learned to 761 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,759 Speaker 3: speak English, and to this day, of course, he he 762 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,719 Speaker 3: came as a young teenager, and he learned, of course 763 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,680 Speaker 3: to speak English, but of course he speaks fluent Russian. 764 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:21,719 Speaker 3: And Gary, who I call Yuri Yuri. Gary, with his 765 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:30,920 Speaker 3: fluent Russian, became the first naval officer to be a 766 00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,920 Speaker 3: foreign specialist, a foreign country specialist, and he spent a 767 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 3: great deal of time serving our country in places like 768 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:46,360 Speaker 3: Poland and in Russia. And he went on to become 769 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 3: a navy captain and was the senior officer in the 770 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,080 Speaker 3: navy when he retired several years ago. And he continues 771 00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 3: to serve our country working with the Ukrainian media in 772 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,120 Speaker 3: Ukraine as we speak. So here's a perfect example of 773 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,640 Speaker 3: a guy who could speak the language, loved his adopted 774 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,319 Speaker 3: country and went on to serve it. So well for 775 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,800 Speaker 3: nearly thirty years as a foreign area specialist. 776 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,800 Speaker 2: Well, we've had Roland for about an hour of time. 777 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 2: We heard wonderful stories from him and got some insight 778 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 2: into Iraq and going in and him as a planner. 779 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,120 Speaker 2: Really want to thank the retired colonel for being on 780 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 2: the show. Roland J. Tisso Junior in Strange Company is 781 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,400 Speaker 2: the book an American soldier with multinational forces in the 782 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,719 Speaker 2: Middle East and Iraq. He also has a forward. I 783 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,399 Speaker 2: want to give a shout out to General retired Anthony Sizini, 784 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,319 Speaker 2: United States Marine Corps who gives him a foreword. Go 785 00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,720 Speaker 2: check out his book and check out the book club 786 00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,560 Speaker 2: that soft rep dot com, Forward slash Book hyphen Club, 787 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,120 Speaker 2: and go check out our merch store. And this is 788 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:04,880 Speaker 2: rad Saying Peace. 789 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,560 Speaker 1: You've been listening to sulf Red Radio.