WEBVTT - A Genius of Empathy 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.320 Have you ever tried to explain this world to children? 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.240 I have kids, two of them. Have you ever sat 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.000 down with a kid and tried to explain why there 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:15.560 are Nazis marching in the exact place where you took 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.720 them to the farmer's market and waited in line for 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:22.160 papoosas Have you ever tried to explain how a person 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:27.560 who lies, assaults, insults, grifts, fakes and hates can be 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.400 elected into one of the most powerful jobs in the world. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:33.960 Have you ever tried to explain to them why they 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.960 should be good people, How they should be good people 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.160 in a world where there is so much bad, where 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.040 they see people who look like them shot by police, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:50.640 murdered by vigilantes, run over at rallies. I have, And 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.480 even though my whole job as a writer involves being 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.000 so called good with words, there are no words good 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.360 enough to explain why things are the way they are 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.200 and what we should do about it. It's too much, 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:09.279 it's too big, it's too overwhelming. Maybe you don't have kids, 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.440 maybe you don't have to make this world makes sense 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.720 to children. So I ask you, how then, do you 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:20.880 make sense of it to yourself? Do you hide? Do 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.560 you tell yourself that everything is fine. Do you convince 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.160 yourself that you're doing everything you can? And do you 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:31.120 make excuses for when you're not? I mean, do you 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:34.200 know what to do like today, like right now, in 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:39.240 this moment to help. Do you know how to be 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:45.720 a good person? Are you a good person? Because me, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.080 I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure about any 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:57.280 of us. What does a good person in this world 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.680 even look like? I mean, what would they tell you 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.800 if you could find the time to sit down and 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:09.359 listen to them? Did you ever have a scary dream? 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:11.880 What did you do about it? There might have been 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.160 one good guy on television of all places. Did you 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.200 tell the people you love about it? The people who 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.720 love you, this old white guy in a zip up 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:28.079 cardigan and blue tennis shoes who played with puppets. When 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:32.079 I was a little boy and I had a scary dream, 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.320 sometimes I'd get some paper and crayons and I would 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:41.800 draw pictures about my dream. I mean, is this the guy, like, 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.880 is this quiet dude staring into a camera and talking 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.880 slowly about crayons? Is this the guy who can stand 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.760 up to our very worst? And sometimes that would help 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.040 so much that I was able to get back to 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.640 sleep real soon. Mr Rogers made it seem so easy, 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.720 so casual, to know how you're feeling, to be comfortable 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:07.799 in your own skin. But it's not easy. It takes work. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.200 And that's actually what Mr rogers Neighborhood was all about. 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.360 He was showing us how to do that work. Really 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:19.440 helps to talk about the way you feel, because everybody 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:24.399 has feelings all the time. In a time like this, 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:31.080 Fred Rogers has something we desperately need. I think the 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.400 real genius of Mr Rogers having done his show and 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:39.360 having it be targeted towards children is that what he 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:45.880 has done is created a template for just how to 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:50.240 recognize your feelings and know what it is, which is 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.600 basically how you get to all the other stuff. It's 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.240 how you grow. He taught us how to plant seeds. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.160 He taught us to plant seeds, seeds that were are 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:04.400 supposed to blossom into healthy, safe, caring, loving feelings for 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.920 ourselves and then for all of our neighbors. And he 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.360 he had three decades on television to show us, to 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.360 convince us, to guide us into making the kind of 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:18.800 world he dreamed of. And yet here we are in 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:24.680 a world that is well it's not Mr Rogers neighborhood. 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.640 I'm Carvel Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.960 about Fred Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:41.279 partnership with Transmitter Media. I'm a writer. I got my 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.200 start by writing about music for MTV and Pitchfork in 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.320 places like that, But for a few years I was 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.280 also the parenting advice columnists for Slate, and every week 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.920 we would read dozens of letters from desperate, frightened, weary 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.600 parents wondering how to raise good people, how to be 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.240 good people, And so I think a lot about what 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:09.880 stands in the way for them for us. But the 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.320 other thing is I grew up as a complete TV nerd. 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.640 I mean TV might have had more of an impact 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.080 on how I understand the world than any adult in 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.360 my life. And so now that I am the adult, 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:29.320 the parent, even I find myself wondering what TV has 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.160 to say to my kids, to our kids, about what 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.920 we can do about the world we live in. And 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.240 so that's how I get to Fred Rogers, a guy 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:46.159 who made TV about this very question. You might have 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.400 noticed there is an explosion of Mr Rogers nostalgia going around, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.640 But I'm curious about it like, why now Fred has 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.760 been dead for almost twenty years and there are suddenly 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:02.760 movies and documentaries and book Why is it that generations 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.640 of adults are all collectively having this nostalgia moment right now? 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.280 I was really interested in feelings as a kid because 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.359 nobody talked about feelings. But I seem to have so many. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.240 This is Ashley c Ford. She makes her living by 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.960 thinking deeply about how people feel and trying to communicate 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.960 something about how that impacts their inner lives and outer lives. 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:30.719 I am a writer of essays, articles and a memoir 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:37.800 and I am a Fred Rogers enthusiasts. What does that 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.080 mean of Fred Rogers enthusiast? Well, I think of being 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:45.839 an enthusiast as being a person who likes a thing 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:51.159 from many, many different angles. I remember being very very 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:56.000 little and like a nap time when I went to 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.280 a babysitter. She would put on Mr Rogers and I 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:01.880 was like, YEO, this is not going to put me 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:07.200 to sleep. I'm fascinated, but I loved Mr Rogers and 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:08.200 so I was like, if you want to put me 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.160 to sleep, you better put on popa Beaver, story Time 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.840 or something. Because Mr Rogers ain't it, lady. He talking 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.360 about all kinds of stuff that I'm interested in. You know, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.400 lots of kids have had that experience. I mean millions actually, 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.360 but actually has talked about how as an adult she 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.280 found help from Mr Rogers. I feel like, at different 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.760 stages of my life, I have come to understand the 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:36.200 man and his impact. And I almost want to say 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.480 the genius of his empathy. Like we talk about genius 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.080 and so many capacities when it comes to other things 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:44.600 and things that we think of as you know, quote 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:49.440 unquote hard, but empathy is really hard. And talking to 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.560 people about empathy and getting people to understand empathy is 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:57.800 so hard. And this man was, I believe, a genius 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:02.080 at it, and not just because of innate talent or inclination, 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.200 but because he valued it and he committed to it 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:09.240 and he worked really hard at it. This I love 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:14.440 this idea of being a genius of empathy. And to 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.200 be a genius of something like empathy feels like a 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.800 new idea because we tend to think of the realm 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:28.360 of feelings as not requiring work or clarity or discipline. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.200 And problem, yeah, yeah, here's our problem. And I want 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:33.560 to ask you about that I want to. I mean, like, 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.719 first in your own experience, what makes empathy difficult? Like, 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.120 what do you find empathy difficult or something that requires 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:46.000 work rather? And if so, what makes empathy difficult? Empathy 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.280 is difficult because people don't have empathy for themselves. M 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:59.640 let's talk about empathy. That word is used everywhere today, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.679 so much so that it seems to have lost its power, 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:07.120 because actually it's a pretty radical idea that we can 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.479 so closely identify with another person that we can understand 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.560 their feelings. A lot of us aren't even comfortable with 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.680 our own feelings anger, fear, sorrow, maybe even certain kinds 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.840 of happiness. And if we're not comfortable with our feelings, 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.960 then we're not really comfortable with ourselves, are we? So 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:33.280 then how can we be comfortable with other people? When 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.720 Ashley came back to Mr Rogers as an adult, she 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:42.280 realized that these were the questions he was grappling with. Yes, 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.760 watching the show did feel like being with an old, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.040 caring friend, but there was way more going on there 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:53.240 than just the warm and fuzzies. The first episode is 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.160 my favorite episode of Mr. Rogers, and I think what 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:02.120 Mr Rogers did was established something in that first episode 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.480 when he sings the song I like you as you are. 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:13.480 I like you as you are exactly and precisely. I 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.679 think you turned out nicely, and I like you as 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.359 you are. I do. The first time I saw the episode, 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.120 though I wasn't a kid, I was an adult. I 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.880 had had a really, really tough day and I decided 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.480 to take a bubble bath and have a glass of 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.320 wine and just be in the tub and take care 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:34.840 of myself. But I didn't want to be like alone 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:36.680 with my thoughts, because you know when you have like 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.200 those sort of stressful, hard days that you're like, I 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.000 need to watch anything, I need to do anything, because 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:43.640 being in my head, my head is not a safe 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.440 space right now. And so I was like, oh, I'm 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.680 gonna set up the computer. I'm just gonna play something. 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.960 And I was like, what can I play that would 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.720 just be so gentle? What can I watch that would 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:59.760 be so gentle that it just it won't make right 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.199 now out harder for me? And I just thought of 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.280 Mr Rogers. Clicked the first episode of Mr. Rogers, and 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.439 I'm crying in the bathtub. I like you, Yes, I do. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:17.320 I like you? What I felt like I rediscovered a 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.120 piece of myself, like a part of myself, which happens 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.520 as you age, like you start to think about all 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.840 the things that you've cast off for reasons that when 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.560 you look back, or like that was to fit into 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.160 something else. And I miss that thing and I want 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.360 it back. And I'm sitting there and I'm listening to 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.000 this song I like You as you are, and I'm remembering, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.760 Holy sh it, I used to like myself. I wouldn't 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:49.600 want to change you or even rearrange. I used to 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.480 really really like who I was, And I don't feel 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.960 like that right now. And it was the beginning of 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.320 trying to like myself again. Like you, Yes, I do. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:08.400 I like you? Oh you, I do? I love you? 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:16.160 Like you as you are. You like what we've done 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:48.719 in here, We'll be right back. That first episode of Mr. 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:53.560 Rogers Neighborhood aired nationally in nineteen and the world in 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:59.199 it felt probably a lot like the world does now, scary, 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:05.240 k aotic, and unspeakably violent. There was the war in Vietnam. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.560 Dr Martin Luther King Junior's assassination and the protests and 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.560 uprisings that came after. Anger and confusion hung over a 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:17.880 lot of adults, and Fred's revolutionary move was to recognize 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:22.040 that their kids were probably feeling it too. The very 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.600 first week of the show when it premiered, had to 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.720 do with the ruler of the make believe land, King 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:34.520 Friday the thirteenth, building a wall to keep out people 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.840 and ideas that he didn't want in his kingdom. And 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.480 now that's creepy when you think about it. In David 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.600 being Cooley knows a big TV moment when he sees one. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.640 He's watched a ton of them. He's been a television 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.520 critic for over forty years. And yeah, he loves the Sopranos, 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.640 and he loves Breaking Bad, and he loves all the 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.760 prestige television about people murdering one another and dissolving bodies 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.480 and acid or whatever. But he's also fascinated with the 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.439 first week of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood and the things Fred 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.200 Rogers was able to communicate in a land of make believe. 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.920 Lady Elaine has been up to her tricks again, and 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.800 she's moved the Eiffel Tower on the wrong side of 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.120 the castle, and the tree has gone away from over 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.680 here to the middle, and the clock is over here 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.120 in the fountain. Well, it's just all mixed erect. He 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.440 must be really upset. He's furious about it, and he 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:34.320 has established border guards in the neighborhood. Make believe that 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.560 sounds like a war. The people in his kingdom. The 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:42.440 other puppets, the other characters send out balloons. Boy, do 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.640 you ever look nifty with all those blows over the 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.800 wall that are nice supportive balloons, like you know, we 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:55.120 like you, we want to get to know you. And 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:59.680 they decide a wall and a barrier isn't a good thing. Now, 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:08.160 this was, you know, and it's dealing with Vietnam essentially, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:14.080 but it still resonates, I mean much more than I'm 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:18.200 comfortable with it. Resonating. Vietnam was just one in what 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.680 seemed like a laundry list of dark and difficult news 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:27.080 items in because earlier that summer, Bobby Kennedy was shot 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:32.320 and Fred Rogers asked for a prime time special because 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:37.520 he understood that even if children were too young to 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:42.000 understand who Bobby Kennedy was or what had happened, they 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.360 would feel the vibe in their own homes about how 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.600 upset their parents were, how upset uh they're older siblings were, 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.680 and wanted to talk about it. So in one sketch 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.640 he has Daniel stripe a tiger. Just a minute, I 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.280 want to show you simply asking Betty Aberlin, one of 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.520 the human people who visits in the neighborhood, and it's 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.040 a balloon, could you blow it up for you? Asked 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.760 her to blow up a balloon and then let the 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:12.880 air out and do it a few times. And he 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:18.640 was concerned about something this little, this little puppet. What 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:24.520 about your air? My my air inside me? Mm hmm. 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:29.640 What if you blow all your air out, then you 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:36.800 won't have any left, just like the balloon. But people 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:42.680 aren't like balloons, Daniel. When we blow air out, we 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:53.240 get some more back in. Oh, what does assassination mean? 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.680 And this is out of a children's hand puppet. As 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:05.119 far as you know that any other children shows address 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:12.640 that topic, No, and and and I've looked. I just 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:20.600 ask you in regardless of what uh the big news 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:25.720 event is, can you imagine any children's television program that's 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.879 on right now coming up almost with like a news 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:36.400 special addressing the emotional consequences of it. It doesn't exist. 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:42.400 This special ran the evening after Bobby Kennedy died Fred 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:47.520 Rogers wrote this scene overnight. He was so tuned into 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.399 his audience that he knew that this was something that 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:55.760 children and their families absolutely needed to hear. Fred Rogers 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:00.440 empathized with the kids who were feeling so scared and confused, 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.199 so he talked right to those kids, and then he 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.560 talked to their parents too about how to help with 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:11.639 the children. The best thing in the world is for 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:19.280 your children to be included in your family ways of 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:26.480 coping with the problems that that present themselves any time, 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:34.160 but particularly now in this very difficult time in our nation. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.399 Fred Rogers invented a neighborhood where people got together to 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.919 talk about the things that confused them or scared them, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.640 and he used this place to show his viewers what 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:52.080 you have to do to work through your emotions. And 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:57.479 in doing that he was able to communicate complex concepts, moral, 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:02.879 even spiritual concepts, excepts that even adults are still struggling 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.040 to get a hold of. Empathy is about like sort 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.480 of finding the space between the parts that connect right, 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.920 Like we know as humans that we are connected to 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.680 each other inextricably and irrevocably. Like we know that because 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.480 we have to live in the world together and we 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.399 have to rely on each other. I UM, in working 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.000 on this project, I'm like really struck with what seems 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.119 to me an apparent paradox. I think that this question 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.159 of empathy feels so complicated for some people because on 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.399 the one hand, it's like, are you saying we should 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:44.200 have empathy for for rapists and racists and violent people 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.840 and white supremacists. I think that makes people feel panicked 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.159 about the idea of empathy, and I want to explore 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:50.560 that a little bit with you, Like, how do you 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:55.680 see those ideas working together? Well, let me start here. 0:19:56.080 --> 0:20:00.280 I'll start by saying, um, and I guess I'll just 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.280 say whatever I say, and you guys can decide whether 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.520 or not that's not appropriate. UM. My father has was 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:11.480 in prison from the time I was about oh six 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:18.920 months old until I was almost thirty, and my dad 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.320 was I found out when I was fourteen years old 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.760 that my dad was in prison for sexual assault, that 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.080 that's why he was there, and that that's why he 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:32.639 would be there for however long. And my dad had 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.720 also written me letters up until that point my entire life. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:37.920 I mean, just so many letters. You're the best girl 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.000 in the world. I love you so much. You're my 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:44.040 favorite girl. Um. I think you're amazing. Never forget that 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.480 your dad loves you. I'm thinking of you all the time. 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.040 Nothing is better than your smile, you know, like all 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.359 this kinds of stuff, and that had been to be 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.679 perfectly honest, like the basis of my self esteem, and 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.639 then to find out that this was true about my 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:03.120 father was really really tough for me, but it started 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:09.880 the beginning of a real understanding the complexity of humanity 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:14.320 and that a person can be one person's hero and 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.000 another person's worst nightmare and their monster and the thing 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.520 that was hiding in the dark, and both of those 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.439 things can be true about a person right like it 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:26.840 has to be, Like there was no there was no 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:31.840 other way to see this. He has both done a 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.800 bad thing and he a terrible thing, a monstrous thing, 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:40.119 and he has also, you know, been the thing that 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.600 up into this point has kept me from feeling like 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.359 I was alone in the world. And the truth is 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:50.399 we're connected to these people for better or worse. We 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.960 all want to be good, to be friendly, to be neighbors, 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.399 at least most of us. But when we see other 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:02.680 people acting well bad, we get hurt, we lose our 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:07.199 own balance, we get mad. There are a lot of 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:12.600 reactions to the state of our country, the state of 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:14.720 the world, the state of society, all those things that 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.679 are a lot of reactions right now that it is 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:22.000 perfectly understandable for people to be this angry. And so 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:24.679 I don't really blame the people who are kind of 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.560 hot headed and lose their minds, or you know, like 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.960 or or are so seems so consumed by their anger 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:36.000 that they're more angry than alive. Like, I don't blame them, 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:41.520 but I do always think, Man, who's going to be there? 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.919 And how are they going to deal when the anger 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:51.280 stops being enough? Because it'll never be enough. It will 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:57.679 never ever, ever, ever, ever be enough. What do you 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.760 do with the man that you've feel when you feel 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:06.480 so mad you could bite me, when the whole wide 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:13.199 world seems wrong, and nothing you do seems very what 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.919 do you do with the man you feel? It's a 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.719 question that preoccupied Fred Rogers. He wrote a song about it. 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.000 He felt so strongly about it that he recited the 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.800 lyrics to that song in front of a Senate committee 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:33.119 hearing in You Got the Flaw. It's a famous bit 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.840 of footage, and we'll return to it again. But I'm 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.240 struck that this is one of the first times Fred 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.719 Rogers was really explicit about what he was doing with 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.320 his TV programs. And I feel that if we in 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:52.920 public television can only make it clear that feelings are 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:57.760 mentionable and manageable, we will have done a great service 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:03.720 for mental health. Uh. I think that it's much more 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:07.680 dramatic that two men could be working out their feelings 0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:12.960 of anger, much more dramatic than showing something of gunfire. 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.120 Could I tell you the words of one of the songs, 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:22.000 which I feel is very important. This has to do 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:26.040 with that good feeling of control which I feel that 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:30.439 that children need to know is there. And it starts 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.159 out what do you do with the mad that you feel? 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:36.320 And that first line came straight from a child? What 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.560 do you do with the mad that you feel? When 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.920 you feel so mad you could bite, When the whole 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.919 wide world seems oh so wrong, and nothing you do 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:50.720 seems very right? What do you do? Do you punch 0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:54.280 a bag? Do you pound some clay or some dough? 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:57.880 Do you round up friends for a game of tag 0:24:58.080 --> 0:25:01.639 or see how fast you go? It's great to be 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:05.520 able to stop when you've planned a thing that's wrong, 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:10.400 and be able to do something else instead, And think 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:14.240 this song I can stop when I want to, can 0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:18.440 stop when I wish, can stop, stop, stop any time, 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:22.000 And what a good feeling to feel, And what a 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:26.800 good feeling to feel like this and know that the 0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:31.959 failing is really mine. I guess that makes me think 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.560 a lot about the force of anger and the violence 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:39.520 and ugliness that anger can cause. And here's this person 0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:42.760 sort of standing at the riverhead of anger and wanting 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:45.560 to divert it. And I think it's a fascinating idea. 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:48.000 And I want to ask you, what do you do 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:52.040 Ashley with the mad that you feel? Oh? My god, 0:25:53.600 --> 0:26:01.200 I think because anger is a thing that I had 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:06.720 to teach myself, give myself permission to feel in my adulthood, 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:10.880 because I grew up in a very angry household where 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:17.040 anger was the emotion. Did you um? But every day 0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:24.560 I I think what I have learned to do with 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:28.480 my anger is to talk to it, which sounds so 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:30.840 I know that it sounds a little booboo, but hey, 0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:34.560 this is Mr Rogers, Um. But I do I talk 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:38.760 to my anger because what I've what I've essentially learned 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.960 is that every emotion is just trying to tell you something. 0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:45.040 And when I'm angry, I think it's trying to tell 0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:48.440 me what I care about. It's trying to tell me 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:54.960 what's important to me. Years ago, um I was really angry. 0:26:55.440 --> 0:27:01.040 I was working at a media company and the Ferguson 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:06.760 uprising was happening, and the news room was covering it. 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:10.320 We were all talking about it, and I had a 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:16.320 conversation with a boss who told me that they did 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:20.600 not want me to tweet out the words black Lives 0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:26.879 Matter because it was political and it could affect my 0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:34.760 colleagues ability to do their job. And I remember feeling 0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:42.320 so angry at the implication that I could choose. That's 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.320 not just a choice. And I think that's when I 0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:47.560 just got to it, why, where I was just like, 0:27:47.600 --> 0:27:50.240 you know what I can, I'm gonna do something, and 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:51.720 it's going to be something that they're not going to 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:55.560 be able to do anything about. I ended up raising 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:58.600 about half a million dollars for the Ferguson Library because 0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:02.240 it was a really safe place for children. Schools were 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:06.119 closed and teachers were going to the library and just 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.959 sending emails to parents and saying, hey, if you need 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:12.040 to bring your kids to the library, we're just all 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.639