Speaker 1: You're listening to play back a Variety I Heart Radio podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Variety Awards Editor Chris Tapley. This week,
Speaker 1: we're wrapping up our chats with OSCAR nominees this year
Speaker 1: with Paul Schrader, writer and director of First Reformed. Paul
Speaker 1: received his first ever nomination this year for Original Screenplay
Speaker 1: after what's been a very long and iconic career. It's
Speaker 1: been a long time coming for him to get this recognition.
Speaker 1: So I was very excited to get him in here
Speaker 1: and finally discussed this film, which has actually been promoting
Speaker 1: for well over a year. Uh. Movie debuted at the
Speaker 1: Venice Film Festival in two thousand seventeen. Next week, just
Speaker 1: to let you know, leading into the Oscars, we'll be
Speaker 1: wrapping things up there with a special episode full of
Speaker 1: all of our interviews with various folks who are out nominated,
Speaker 1: not just for Oscars this year, about for Spirit Awards.
Speaker 1: The Independent Spirit Awards will be on today before the
Speaker 1: Oscars as usual, So look forward to that next week.
Speaker 1: And for now, here is my chat with Paul Schrader Weather.
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, I remember I remember this one month. I
Speaker 1: remember when I lived here one month, brand three weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you ready to go? Man? Okay, everyone, I'm here today
Speaker 1: with the Oscar nominated writer and director of First Reformed,
Speaker 1: Paul Schrader. Thanks for coming on the show man, Uh,
Speaker 1: first and foremost. As I was saying earlier, congratulations, that
Speaker 1: was I was thrilled. I mean this especially because this
Speaker 1: is a movie that's been This movie premiered at Venice
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seventy. Strange. You know, independent film
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I have a little bit of ronchitis. Uh,
Speaker 1: independent film can have a very short life, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes as long as three or four days. We're now
Speaker 1: in the six month of this film's life. Um, it
Speaker 1: being sort of in the conversation that long, it's kind
Speaker 1: of amazing. But we're ready to step off stage. I
Speaker 1: was just gonna ask, I mean, I'm sure you've never
Speaker 1: promoted a film for this amount of time in your life.
Speaker 1: I mean, did you take into account I've been promoting
Speaker 1: Taxi Driver for fifty years. Yeah. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: it's such a crazy notion to to kind of live
Speaker 1: with a movie for this long as it opened different
Speaker 1: doors in the material for you, as you've lived with
Speaker 1: it this long in the Afterglobe having made it and
Speaker 1: released too much. I mean, I have a rather peculiar career.
Speaker 1: I work on spec I've done a few assignments over
Speaker 1: the years, but mostly I have my own little shop
Speaker 1: which is just consist of me and you know, come
Speaker 1: up with something right at package it, put it together
Speaker 1: and rather than do something really past year, I just
Speaker 1: decided to play this out because it was a real
Speaker 1: sense of fulfillment, in a sense of a circle being
Speaker 1: rounded off. Is it your most rewarding film for yourself
Speaker 1: that you've made. It's the greatest sense of completion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the sense of, ah, whatever I came to do, I've
Speaker 1: done it. Now. I don't know what I'm gonna do next,
Speaker 1: but I certainly don't have a sense that I didn't
Speaker 1: do what I set out to do. You know, fifty
Speaker 1: years ago when I started following in love with movies, Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: and this, you know, you received critical accolades all all season,
Speaker 1: one of the most critically acclaimed films of the year.
Speaker 1: Ethan Hawk, who we had on the show around the
Speaker 1: time of release. Tons of accodes for him as well.
Speaker 1: And this culminates with your first Oscar nomination, which, again,
Speaker 1: so happy for that was that particular recognition anything that
Speaker 1: you ever saw it No, not real. I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: you don't want to define yourself in that way. You
Speaker 1: don't want to get to a point where you say,
Speaker 1: if I'm not nominated, I'm less of an artists are
Speaker 1: I'm less accomplished? And and tru was be told if
Speaker 1: this film wasn't nominated, and it wasn't critically acclaimed, it
Speaker 1: would still be a good film. And so I know that. Uh.
Speaker 1: But on the other side of the coin is that
Speaker 1: when you get involved in this peculiar phenomenon we have
Speaker 1: now of Awards season. I was talking to pl Pabloski
Speaker 1: about this. It so steeps into your bones that you
Speaker 1: find yourself caring about something that previously you didn't really
Speaker 1: care about. And how lovely, by the way, speaking of Pablo,
Speaker 1: that you're both nomineas this year, because I know Eda
Speaker 1: was a big influence on you. Uh well, Eda was
Speaker 1: the movie. I was gay Pavil the award at the
Speaker 1: New York Society Film Critics and we got to talking
Speaker 1: and after the that walking up Town is what I
Speaker 1: decided to write this script. That's amazing. I'm sure he
Speaker 1: knows that story, right, now yeah, uh, has there anything?
Speaker 1: Has there been anything like particularly eye opening about having
Speaker 1: been a part of an awards circuit like this. I
Speaker 1: mean you've been around the block, You've seen it all right,
Speaker 1: but something like this is there? Is there anything that's
Speaker 1: just like a new shade in in an interesting way
Speaker 1: for you? No? I mean I think it is, um,
Speaker 1: you know what it is a kind of addiction because
Speaker 1: you really wanted to be over, but then when it's over,
Speaker 1: you're going through withdrawal. So um, you know, you don't
Speaker 1: quite know how to deal with it all. But you know,
Speaker 1: and there's a fairly recent phenomena. It's just so post
Speaker 1: Harby Warrant, students Awards season and stuff. I mean I
Speaker 1: remember and taxi driver. I went through the ceremony, but
Speaker 1: I got sick and I left early. But there was
Speaker 1: nothing else. There was nothing but or nothing And after
Speaker 1: we're um swift swifty loser had a party and I
Speaker 1: went about it and and so this six months you know,
Speaker 1: the Roman campaign you know began uh you know in
Speaker 1: con a year ago, you know, I mean it wasn't
Speaker 1: in coin, but that's where they started putting pieces again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is has been quite phenomenon. Yeah, I take
Speaker 1: some of the blame for that. Uh. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: the awards editor here Variety, and yeah, I mean around
Speaker 1: two thousand one is when I started covering the awards season,
Speaker 1: and and it just it's it has become as someone
Speaker 1: who makes his his his living with it. It's become
Speaker 1: a ridiculous phenomenon. Well, I mean it's driven by all
Speaker 1: these advertisements. You know, these publications who saw their ads
Speaker 1: fall off because of the Internet. All of a sudden,
Speaker 1: this became the new or sometimes the only stores of revenue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's rather incestuous that way. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's a unique business. I mean, what can we say? Um,
Speaker 1: I want to go back here a little bit and
Speaker 1: just talk about your work and critical writing before becoming
Speaker 1: a filmmaker, you know, being an acolyte, if you will,
Speaker 1: of Pauline Kale and and uh yeah, you know, whenever
Speaker 1: someone makes that kind of a transition from journalist slash
Speaker 1: critical writer essayist, what have you to doing the work
Speaker 1: that you've been writing about? Uh? Was it a difficult
Speaker 1: transition where you really eager to do it? I didn't
Speaker 1: think I had much choice because I had no set
Speaker 1: out to be a film critical that was my goal
Speaker 1: and and Pauline had set up a job for me
Speaker 1: in c L and I didn't take it, and I
Speaker 1: was a little thrown by that. Um I should I
Speaker 1: In my mind I said, maybe I should have taken it.
Speaker 1: But something helped me back. And then I left the
Speaker 1: a f I I. I was the first year fellow
Speaker 1: there and I got a dispute with George Stevens and
Speaker 1: I left that. Then Uh, my marriage all apart. Then
Speaker 1: I didn't have any money, and then I didn't have
Speaker 1: a place to live, and um, I realized that non
Speaker 1: fiction wasn't going to do it for me. There was
Speaker 1: something growing inside me that was very dark and very angry,
Speaker 1: and I said, I've got to give expressions this I
Speaker 1: have to make. I have to realize this thing, or
Speaker 1: this thing is going to become me. You know. I
Speaker 1: was in the car and driving around and drinking. There's
Speaker 1: a gun in the car. And at that time here
Speaker 1: in La you could go over to the uh pussy
Speaker 1: Cat on Santa Monica. It was open all night long
Speaker 1: and you can people go and go there and sleep
Speaker 1: beside other things and and out of that darkness I
Speaker 1: got a bleeding also and went in the hospital. And
Speaker 1: in the hospital I realized this idea of this kid
Speaker 1: and this yellow coffin trapped flowing through the city, seemingly
Speaker 1: surrounded but absolutely alone, And I said, that's me and
Speaker 1: and so I wrote that script as therapy. I wrote it,
Speaker 1: do not become Travispecktle. And that was its primary function
Speaker 1: for almost a year. You know. It wasn't put out
Speaker 1: the cell or anything. And I drifted around the country
Speaker 1: then and got my mental health back, and I came back,
Speaker 1: and about a year later I was back reviewing again.
Speaker 1: A year later, I was talking to the Palmo and
Speaker 1: I mentioned I had written a script wance. He said,
Speaker 1: oh no, no, non't please, please, don't guilt to me.
Speaker 1: And but I he did to read it, and he
Speaker 1: gave it to Mari, and then that's where its life
Speaker 1: started coming up. Yeah. Did you feel, uh, did you
Speaker 1: fully and properly exorcized what you were trying to do? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think that artists can be very, very functional. Uh,
Speaker 1: as as functional as almost any other tool. You know,
Speaker 1: you can you know, you can drive a nail into
Speaker 1: piece of wood with the arts functional and uh, and
Speaker 1: I still more or less operate in the same way
Speaker 1: I did back then. Not every film, of course, but
Speaker 1: you know, every several years you returned and you say,
Speaker 1: what issues are really troubling me now at this stage
Speaker 1: in my life. What are the metaphors possible metaphors for
Speaker 1: that issue, and how can a story be explored with
Speaker 1: that metaphor? And you know, so you're just ruminating things.
Speaker 1: You know. At one point I wanted to do a
Speaker 1: bid life movie and for six months I couldn't find it,
Speaker 1: and then it came to me in a dream. Um,
Speaker 1: a drug dealer I had known came to me in
Speaker 1: a dream and we were talking. I woke up at
Speaker 1: six of the morning and um, he was right in
Speaker 1: my face. I said, Wow, that was vivid. Why did
Speaker 1: he come to me? Like, what were we talking to
Speaker 1: about it? He said, or he wanted to know about
Speaker 1: the movies. I said, that's him. That's my midlife crisis.
Speaker 1: A four year old drug delivery boy. It was bought
Speaker 1: his quitting to go into gothmetic and he has no skills.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's what I've been looking for him. And
Speaker 1: so that movie became Light Sleeper. We had Willham on
Speaker 1: the show last year actually talking about that. Um, I
Speaker 1: find I saw this thing. I read something about the
Speaker 1: fact that you didn't watch movies when you were young.
Speaker 1: So you didn't. You don't You don't have like nostalgia,
Speaker 1: like childhood nostalgia from movies. No. I mean I didn't
Speaker 1: know anybody who watched movies either, so I didn't even
Speaker 1: know I was missing anything. Uh, they were not. Uh.
Speaker 1: We we had a Synautical decree against what they called
Speaker 1: worldly amusements, which was done in the twenties, and then
Speaker 1: I know, the Roaring twenties, and it was theater attendant, smoking,
Speaker 1: card playing, dancing, drinking so far. And so that was
Speaker 1: the way I was raised. And uh, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: really tell college that I started getting interested in movies.
Speaker 1: And that was just the best time to fall in
Speaker 1: love with movies ever, because you're dealing with the intellectual
Speaker 1: European cinema of the sixties, and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: there were these movies that were equally serious. I was
Speaker 1: a serious kid. I was in the seminaright, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you go see these Berkman films, and you say,
Speaker 1: these other films, and he said, hey, wait a second,
Speaker 1: there's no golf between the sacred and the profane. Bourbon
Speaker 1: is making movies about the same thing we're talking about
Speaker 1: in class. You know, you know, it's not like these
Speaker 1: two worlds will never meet. They can meet. And so
Speaker 1: that was sort of the excitement of of doing that
Speaker 1: and then starting a film club in college and showing
Speaker 1: these films you know, uh, you know, uh, sub Rosa
Speaker 1: and all of that, you know, and so um, so
Speaker 1: I came to films as an adult and uh, I
Speaker 1: had to back up and spend quite a few years
Speaker 1: catching up in my film education. Yeah. I find that
Speaker 1: kind of fascinating because you said that as a result
Speaker 1: of that, you approach films more cerebral e analytically, even
Speaker 1: just you know, as you just started to break down
Speaker 1: how you began to write a script. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is the kind of stuff we love to talk about
Speaker 1: on this show. Actually, uh, and it's it seems like
Speaker 1: a different approach because you know, are you running on
Speaker 1: your gut when you're working or are you really in
Speaker 1: your head saying how do I translate this into something
Speaker 1: that reflects it? Well? Um, I believe that Scream Night
Speaker 1: was part of the oral tradition, not the literary one.
Speaker 1: So I just keep telling the story over and over again,
Speaker 1: and I'll lie in it over and over again. On
Speaker 1: talent achieves a certain critical mass. You know, if you
Speaker 1: can tell a story for fourty five minutes and keep
Speaker 1: someone interested, you have a movie. Yeah. Uh and uh,
Speaker 1: And that's a good thing. You know, you're either gonna
Speaker 1: live or die after something a good old repetition. If
Speaker 1: it dies, that's good too, because you're saved the work
Speaker 1: of writing the script that no one would really be
Speaker 1: interested in. And if it lives, and you have enormous
Speaker 1: amount of proposition because you know it all is all
Speaker 1: in your head. And so uh, that's so the way
Speaker 1: way I began with The Doctor Drivers the way I'm
Speaker 1: still writing. Let's let's go to a first reform. What
Speaker 1: was the genesis there? What? What? What were you? What
Speaker 1: were you thinking about? It seems rather clear when you
Speaker 1: see the movie, but I just want to hear it
Speaker 1: from you. What was on your mind that you wanted
Speaker 1: to kind of get out onto the page? Right? Well,
Speaker 1: there was the person and in the lactual decision to
Speaker 1: make a film about spiritual life, I had refused to
Speaker 1: do this forever. I had written a book of theological aesthetics.
Speaker 1: But when people said, try to compare my films to
Speaker 1: that book, I said, no, I'm not that guy. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to make that feel I'm not going to
Speaker 1: get out on that brace ody and the ice and um,
Speaker 1: and I just refused to. And then after that meeting
Speaker 1: with the Volley as well, maybe it's time now to
Speaker 1: write there script you swore you wouldn't write. And um
Speaker 1: and of course, um, the the whole the heaviness that
Speaker 1: was weighing down on us now in that what had
Speaker 1: been the past, a theoretical conversation that was held generation
Speaker 1: after generation, what it's man's purpose is becoming less and
Speaker 1: less theoretical. I mean, uh, like my grandchildren might not
Speaker 1: even have that conversation, and more likely than not their
Speaker 1: their grandchildren will not have that conversation because the species
Speaker 1: will not be having that conversation anymore, because it will
Speaker 1: be a different SPECIs. So that is you know, and
Speaker 1: ask a lot to collogical loadstone. And so the first
Speaker 1: thing I did and I said, well, I've got to
Speaker 1: revisit all the films of this nature that I've liked
Speaker 1: and see all the new ones that have been made
Speaker 1: in the last forty years. So you just start watching
Speaker 1: and then you you start cherry picking and get a
Speaker 1: little bit here, a little bit there, and it starts
Speaker 1: to come together. So you know, the metaphor then, of course,
Speaker 1: is the priest and not the priest the reverend in
Speaker 1: this tourist church, you know, nobody attends um. And then
Speaker 1: you started taking it from there, and you take that
Speaker 1: that the reverend came from brace Own, and a little
Speaker 1: church came from Bergmann, and uh, the ending came from Driver,
Speaker 1: the levitation came from Tarkovsky, and they getting wound up together.
Speaker 1: And what surprised me most was that what was tying
Speaker 1: all these things together was the barbed wire taxi driver.
Speaker 1: There profult propulsive, minocular obsession um of that film. And
Speaker 1: I didn't really sense that the poltergeist of Travis Nickel
Speaker 1: had come in the room. And but he had. He
Speaker 1: was across the desk from me, and I sensed his
Speaker 1: president probably on his shoulder all the time. I think
Speaker 1: I love that phrase, by the way, brasonian Ice, and
Speaker 1: I love that you just you wear your influences on
Speaker 1: your sleeve, even when when you're influenced by yourself, as
Speaker 1: we're talking about with taxi driver in some sense that
Speaker 1: you you're not afraid of that. Well, well, you know
Speaker 1: that anybody who's honest knows that we don't do anything original.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just a whole mix and match kind
Speaker 1: of world, and the originality comes in the assemblage of
Speaker 1: influences and insights and so that uh that I know,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't see why anybody should that. I
Speaker 1: feel that they create actually something new. Speaking of Pavl
Speaker 1: By the way, what do you think of Cold War?
Speaker 1: I like it a lot. Um. Uh, maybe I admired
Speaker 1: it more than I liked it. I wish he had
Speaker 1: warmed up his main character a little more. I had
Speaker 1: talked about that and his producer, and they originally cast
Speaker 1: a guy who was very friendly, and Pavel changed it
Speaker 1: because he wanted it more like his actual father. Interesting. Um,
Speaker 1: so you started to talk about you know, you work
Speaker 1: on spec I wanted to talk about that over over
Speaker 1: a career, because you know, you've been a writer, director
Speaker 1: in the in the purist since your whole your whole
Speaker 1: career pretty much. How has that search for funding shifted?
Speaker 1: How has just that entire business of being that changed? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean virtually everything we've learned in the last hundred
Speaker 1: years doesn't apply. Uh it is um. It's changed a
Speaker 1: number of times. And I at one point I thought
Speaker 1: we were entering a new period of transition, and now
Speaker 1: I believe we have entered a period of permanent transition.
Speaker 1: That everything we learned this year we won't apply next year.
Speaker 1: Just like when you open your computer, the moment you
Speaker 1: open the box is how to date, uh tall fast
Speaker 1: things are changing and every three months or so four
Speaker 1: months you've seen neither will be testing out a new
Speaker 1: economic model. And so if you figured out how to
Speaker 1: finance the film three years ago, that's not necessarily how
Speaker 1: you're gonna finance next year. And um. So I began
Speaker 1: in the studio system. I did four or five studio films,
Speaker 1: and then I moved over into the independent system. Um
Speaker 1: and then um um, now I'm in this kind of
Speaker 1: quasi streaming independent system uh read Eastern Allis. And I
Speaker 1: did a d d Y I called the Canyons just
Speaker 1: to test the water. So, you know, talking to Brett,
Speaker 1: and I said, you think you think we could actually
Speaker 1: make a film just pay for it ourselves with this
Speaker 1: new technology. I think we could do that. And we could,
Speaker 1: and we did. It doesn't make money. You think you
Speaker 1: could do it again? No, I could do it again.
Speaker 1: I would. Uh Well, how about like, you know, do
Speaker 1: do new doors kind of suddenly open up when you're
Speaker 1: an Oscar nominee? I mean, do you do? You have
Speaker 1: people people treat you a little bit differently, and that's
Speaker 1: a little bit of a surprise because, um, you know,
Speaker 1: because you realize that it means more to them than
Speaker 1: it does to you. You know, I say, oh, you
Speaker 1: want you got on a nomination. Yeah, you know, yes,
Speaker 1: I got a nomination and my life that means so
Speaker 1: much to you. Um and uh but uh uh. I
Speaker 1: have never been a particularly good employee. I had a
Speaker 1: little good string there when I worked with Marty did
Speaker 1: four films, and then on Bringing Out the Dead, I
Speaker 1: could see that relationship was coming into an end because
Speaker 1: there were now two directors in the room, and Marty
Speaker 1: doesn't want another director in the room. So I knew
Speaker 1: that that was coming into an end. And I often
Speaker 1: ran into trouble with assignments and adaptations just because I mean,
Speaker 1: I've never managed to hold a job in my life.
Speaker 1: I just said, there's always at some point you say,
Speaker 1: I've got a better idea, and somebody else says, we
Speaker 1: don't care, and I said, well, I guess I better leave.
Speaker 1: And uh so I've solid my reputation as a good
Speaker 1: employee for so many years now that I don't think
Speaker 1: people I don't think of me as as somebody they
Speaker 1: go to another job for higher um. Bringing out to that,
Speaker 1: speaking of actually loved that film, man, How did you
Speaker 1: you like how it turned out? Yes? I did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of that. Yeah. I I thought
Speaker 1: Nick was a little too old. My only complaint, um,
Speaker 1: because it was book was written by a kid, uh
Speaker 1: when he was about twenty two, and you're gonna have
Speaker 1: a breakdown in a paramedic, you're gonna have it in
Speaker 1: your early twenties because by the time you get to
Speaker 1: be in the early thirties, you've figured it out to
Speaker 1: it and so I can. I just felt that Nick
Speaker 1: was just too old in years, not in acting style
Speaker 1: or anything. And uh but apart from that, I think
Speaker 1: it's very cool, hilm. I really love it. Anytime I
Speaker 1: talked to someone who's associated with it, I try to
Speaker 1: bring it up. I think I talked to Patricia about
Speaker 1: that one time. It's just one of those movies from
Speaker 1: that great year of n were so many great movies
Speaker 1: that year. I also want to talk about Ethan Hawk
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. You know, the actors in your movies,
Speaker 1: their vessels, you know, for for what you're doing, so
Speaker 1: much like Nicknolty, Richard DearS or she Scott well Dafoe. Uh,
Speaker 1: Ethan why why why did you feel like he was
Speaker 1: the guy for this character? Well? You know Ethan Uh,
Speaker 1: if you've you've met him, He's not like this character,
Speaker 1: not at all. He's in Austin hippie, he's in Texas
Speaker 1: goofball um. But he had at this age now he
Speaker 1: has the striking present, those wrinkles, and I kind of
Speaker 1: gravity to his appearance that we associate with tortured men
Speaker 1: of the cloth. And so I started thinking about him
Speaker 1: while I was writing. And I was also thinking about
Speaker 1: Jake Gillenhall on Oscar Isaak, but even with ten years older.
Speaker 1: And I realized that because he had such a reserve,
Speaker 1: that maybe something good could happen if he didn't try
Speaker 1: to please you. Um. And the first time we met,
Speaker 1: I said to him, you know what a recessive performances?
Speaker 1: I said, whenever you said the viewer getting interested in
Speaker 1: you just leaning back and there's still interested leaning back
Speaker 1: a little more. Don't do anything to curry their approval.
Speaker 1: See how see see how far are you gonna lean back?
Speaker 1: See what happens? See if they actually now start leaning
Speaker 1: towards you? And um, and so that was the approach
Speaker 1: we took and Gear, in fact, I was just talking
Speaker 1: to Richard Gear about it. He was so impressed by
Speaker 1: He said, how can he do that? How can he
Speaker 1: not show anything? Doesn't he have any emotions? Uh? It's
Speaker 1: it's uh the shame. Actually he couldn't get a nomination
Speaker 1: of himself. Mean gosh, she was like one of the
Speaker 1: most Laurel performances of the year. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was. It seemed to be a coin flip between
Speaker 1: he and William. So I can't it's hard for you.
Speaker 1: And how about that? I mean William? Uh, Sam Rockwells.
Speaker 1: And when you've worked with also the circuit, you know
Speaker 1: you feel like people you know in the circuit. That's
Speaker 1: been nice, yes, yes, um uh, Well, because I'm a
Speaker 1: four film I've spent an unconsfortable amount of time with
Speaker 1: Bo Burnham. And if I never see Spike again, and
Speaker 1: that will be fine. I'll see Spike and getting in
Speaker 1: an hour. Every time I turned around, there he is
Speaker 1: with his glasses. Well, he'd probably say the same year
Speaker 1: and then but he did something that so I'll touched me.
Speaker 1: This was at the A f I luncheon and Uh.
Speaker 1: They were announcing the if I graduated stud We're there
Speaker 1: and I was graduated from the first year, not really graduated.
Speaker 1: I attended and uh, and so they mentioned my name
Speaker 1: and Spike got up and started to applaud and he
Speaker 1: just looked around the room and kept the plodding, and
Speaker 1: people are looking at each other, Well, I can't we
Speaker 1: better stand up? And eventually the whole room stot up
Speaker 1: and I could see people looking at each other. Why
Speaker 1: are we standing up? Goo Spike? Uh? And then you
Speaker 1: know what is? Uh? What's your next act? What? What
Speaker 1: do you are? You gonna keep plugging away, no change,
Speaker 1: just work how you always have something. I was hoping
Speaker 1: to do a film in uh May or June with
Speaker 1: Ethan and Will, But two days ago Ethan got green
Speaker 1: lit on this series about John Brown that he's been
Speaker 1: wanting to do for years and years, and he's also written.
Speaker 1: So I'm scrambling to try to recast that. I should
Speaker 1: be too. I do have the money, so um and
Speaker 1: it is a very um desirable role. Just and and
Speaker 1: then it happens. I mean, you know, Travolta dropped out
Speaker 1: of Jaglo two weeks before shooting. Not that I am
Speaker 1: surprised by this stuff anymore. Yeah, well, there's a surplus
Speaker 1: of grade actors, I should think, so good luck with that.
Speaker 1: That would have been cool to see them together in
Speaker 1: one of your movies. Uh And before we close here,
Speaker 1: we're both going to the Oscars and the Oscar nominees
Speaker 1: lunch in here in a bit, first of all, or
Speaker 1: anything you're anyone you're looking forward to meeting that you
Speaker 1: haven't met this year there or anything like that. Uh well,
Speaker 1: I mean I think the the sort of revelation of
Speaker 1: the year is Miss Gaga. I mean, you know, she
Speaker 1: was in like one TV episodic and she just explodes
Speaker 1: on the screen, lies and Judy together. And you know,
Speaker 1: I was talking to the writer yesterday and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, when did you say that you were catching
Speaker 1: fire at the bottle? Because uh, I did not expect
Speaker 1: that performance. I love that movie. Actually, I thought it
Speaker 1: was the best iteration of the material so far, and
Speaker 1: then the last thing. I've been asking people this at
Speaker 1: the end of the show lately. It's just a kind
Speaker 1: of a connective tissue. I'm very curious from guest to guests,
Speaker 1: what is the movie that made you fall in love
Speaker 1: with movies? Well, uh, it's a movie called Pickpocket by
Speaker 1: Robert Brace. I was a film critic here in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles for the l A Free Press, the Corner Cults Republication,
Speaker 1: and I went to the Lemley Theater uh on Lost
Speaker 1: Feelers for a critical screening. And the movie is quite short,
Speaker 1: seventy five minutes long. And in that seventy five minutes,
Speaker 1: my life turned as if I had an axle because
Speaker 1: I realized two things. One as I realized that there
Speaker 1: was a connection between my sacred upbringing and my profane
Speaker 1: present as a U c. L A Film student. But
Speaker 1: it was a connection of style, not a diction of content.
Speaker 1: And out of that revelation I wrote that book Tris
Speaker 1: and Dental Style Film. And the other revelation I had
Speaker 1: was I was living in a house with four you
Speaker 1: see a students who are doing a film called Naked
Speaker 1: Angels and Corman biker exploitation film and I thought, that's
Speaker 1: just so declass and there was no place for me
Speaker 1: in this business. I was very very new to you
Speaker 1: in Arrogant. You know, we'll tell you when you make
Speaker 1: a good film, and um so I just didn't really
Speaker 1: imagine um being on the creative end of this business.
Speaker 1: And I saw this film and here's a guy writes
Speaker 1: in his diary and goes out and steal some stuff
Speaker 1: right in the diary business, David writing his diary. The
Speaker 1: cop hsit him. I said, I could make a film
Speaker 1: like that. You know, it's just about him and his room.
Speaker 1: There's the only two characters. I could do that. And
Speaker 1: then three years later I wrote you which is that film?
Speaker 1: And now hif years on, both of those seeds which
Speaker 1: landed in that Petriot dear that morning, have grown to
Speaker 1: fruition and intertwined because I have a movie and I'm
Speaker 1: talking about the tradition and the style in the Brasonian tradition.
Speaker 1: So it feels to feel that way to you, like
Speaker 1: this has been like a culmination of a lot of things. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I hope it isn't my last film, but
Speaker 1: if it is, it's it's a damn good last film.
Speaker 1: Absolutely and again congratulations. Uh see the movie, folks, It's
Speaker 1: out there. You should seek it out. It's called First Reformed,
Speaker 1: one of the best movies of the year. Uh. Paul Schrader,
Speaker 1: absolute honor to have you on the show. Thank you
Speaker 1: for coming on the show. Than