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Speaker 1: Oh hey, everybody, it's me Ben O'Brien's episode eighty three,

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Speaker 1: coming to you from Bowls in Montana. We're sitting here

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Speaker 1: and ten inches of snow, a foot of snow. Phil,

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Speaker 1: What are we doing? Yep? Um, the snow came in

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Speaker 1: last night. It has been very windy and cold. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could feel. I think there's like a forty forty

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Speaker 1: degree drop and that was just between the highs of

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Speaker 1: the day. If you go from the high to the low,

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Speaker 1: it was like mere sixties, like a sixty degree drop.

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Speaker 1: We should be out hunting. It was nuts. We should

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Speaker 1: be out hunting, um anyway, but we're not. We're podcasting,

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Speaker 1: and so today it's a good show. We're gonna start

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Speaker 1: by recapping the reaction to episode eighty two with Barry

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Speaker 1: Kay Gilbert, the contentious interview. We'll talk through some of

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Speaker 1: your questions and some of the things you guys wanted

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Speaker 1: to know and and and pretty much end the Catharsis one,

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Speaker 1: episode eighty two here today, then move on with our lives,

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Speaker 1: and then we're gonna do our first ever not so

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Speaker 1: sharp moment. It's a pretty good one. It's about a

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Speaker 1: truck getting stuck and then another truck getting stuck and

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Speaker 1: yet another truck getting stuck for that first truck, So

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Speaker 1: you're gonna like that. And then we're gonna have our

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Speaker 1: first ever what I'm calling Whiskey and Ethics portion of

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Speaker 1: the show. And that's where we drink the brand new

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Speaker 1: Mediator Bourbon whiskey and we talk about something ethically, some

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Speaker 1: ethical connotation, some kind of ethical situation. And this one's

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Speaker 1: gonna be gripping grins. You guys all know I feel

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Speaker 1: strongly about those. So we're gonna drink a little whiskey.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get real deep on gripping grins. Look forward

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Speaker 1: to that. But before we get to any of that stuff,

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Speaker 1: we'rena talk about something it's very near and dear to

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Speaker 1: my heart. It's called the Back forty. We bought a

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Speaker 1: property in Michigan, if you haven't already heard, and we're

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Speaker 1: doing a show about it. So if you go to

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Speaker 1: the Meteor YouTube channel, you're gonna find the episodes. We've

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Speaker 1: already launched episodes one and two. Episode three is coming

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Speaker 1: next Monday, and then every two weeks after that until

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Speaker 1: the end of the year, you'll have another episode in

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Speaker 1: your YouTube feed. So go there watch it the meter

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel. You can also go to the medeator dot

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Speaker 1: com slash back forty and check it out. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff there. You're chronicling our boy, Mark Kenyans

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Speaker 1: journey on this Missigan property. I've I've been there a

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Speaker 1: couple of times, gonna go there again. I'm working hard

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Speaker 1: on the show with Mark to make it the best

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Speaker 1: that can be, and we would very much appreciate if

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Speaker 1: you watched it, So go and check it out on

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Speaker 1: the YouTube's or on the mediator dot com. The only

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Speaker 1: other thing to talk about today is the first light

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Speaker 1: Catalyst sautshell system. Where will be wearing this in the

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Speaker 1: tree stand. Mark and I have a rut hunt on

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Speaker 1: the back forty coming up. We're gonna be wearing this

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Speaker 1: in the tree stand. Um. It really is one of

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Speaker 1: the best saft shell pants. You're gonna wear one of

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Speaker 1: the best saft shell systems. They're silent, breathable insulating that

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Speaker 1: will stretch and move with you. It's perfect for sitting

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Speaker 1: in the tree stand. Again, the biggest thing there is silent.

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Speaker 1: It's got an interior thirty seven and have fleece lining

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Speaker 1: that works to optimize your body temperature. Um, while that brushed,

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Speaker 1: durable exterior is ultra silent, it fends off moisture by

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Speaker 1: sitting up in the tree. So go to first light

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Speaker 1: dot com, check out the Catalyst soft shell system and

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Speaker 1: let me know what you think. All right, that's it.

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Speaker 1: That's all the things. Now onto the show, Episode eighty three.

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Speaker 1: Let's go. I guess I grew up on an older road,

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Speaker 1: a pedal to the meadows. I always did what I

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Speaker 1: told until I found out that my brand new closed

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Speaker 1: a game second hand from the rich kid's next door.

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Speaker 1: And I grew up baths I it's I grew up me.

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Speaker 1: There are a thousand things inside of my head I

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Speaker 1: wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: a real bad dream or being, and like I'm coming

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Speaker 1: apart of it seems. But thank you Jack Daniels. Hey, everybody, welcome.

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Speaker 1: We're here another episode of Hunt Cluck. This one is

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Speaker 1: eight three. I'm here with Phil. Hey, Phil, how's going guys?

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Speaker 1: I got a big announcement. WHOA yeah, I didn't tell

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Speaker 1: you about this, Philka it's a big it's a big announcement.

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Speaker 1: Phil is growing a mustache. That's true, it's right now.

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Speaker 1: I would say, how many days have you been growing

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Speaker 1: this mustache? Phil, you had a couple. I think it's

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Speaker 1: been about two weeks. Yeah too, that's two weeks, two weeks,

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Speaker 1: two weeks. Um, it's uh, it's not great. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: look great. I'm doing it for a Halloween. It looks

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Speaker 1: like you might have fallen in some dirt. Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a much blonder than my hair on my head.

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Speaker 1: Are you willing to give up your Halloween costume that?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll give away part of it myself. And

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Speaker 1: Seth Morris the flip flop Flesher signs west on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: We're doing a holiday and why and he already has

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Speaker 1: a mustache. He does all the work for this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but being nervous that you won't be able to uh

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Speaker 1: like match up to his mustache. Yeah, definitely should be

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Speaker 1: because he was he was out hunting. He was out

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Speaker 1: shooting some meat eater uh television programming this past week

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Speaker 1: and he got back and he didn't even notice it

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Speaker 1: on my face yesterday. It does look just like this

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Speaker 1: thing has been coming in for two weeks now, and uh,

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Speaker 1: one of our producers it was like a seth he

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Speaker 1: feels mustache. He's like what he had to come walk

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Speaker 1: closer to me and be like, oh, yeah, there it is, um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there's also gonna be a little twist with

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Speaker 1: the Halleen costume that we're saving, all right to surprise.

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Speaker 1: Do you know any good mustache nicknames? Like the kind

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Speaker 1: of mustache? You mean a nickname for the actual mustache? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not like Larry the mustache what people call mustache. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't, do you well, I mean I have I've

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Speaker 1: heard of something. There's some good ones. Yeah, huh uh.

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Speaker 1: There's some really good ones. I probably can't say. Yes.

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Speaker 1: The one I like the most is Mr Tickles, Whiskers

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Speaker 1: of course, Bristle, Batons, crumb Catcher, lip shadow grass, grand

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Speaker 1: Cookie Duster, Nose Neighbor, soup strainer. I like nose Neighbor,

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Speaker 1: flavor saver makes it makes it seem like a friend.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Mr Tickles to your mustache. If

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Speaker 1: anybody has a right into th HC at the mediator

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Speaker 1: dot com help us name fills mustache. As we've actuately described,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's not fully developed. So I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to I'm trying to display it to the least

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Speaker 1: amount of people possible before Halloween. So so neether you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna see it, I'm gonna ruin that, damn it.

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Speaker 1: I'll get a picture of it. So anyway, right into

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Speaker 1: th HC at the metior time, name fils mustache, and

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Speaker 1: if you do something really good, I'll give you something

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Speaker 1: really cool. I'm not gonna tell you what it is,

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Speaker 1: but it will be something cool. So don't worry. After

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Speaker 1: I shave it, you'll send the hairs and it will

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Speaker 1: be a tiny envelope because there won't be much in there. Nope,

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Speaker 1: all right, we gotta move on. But as much as

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Speaker 1: I'd like to just think of names for your mustache,

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Speaker 1: we gotta. We got we got stuff to get to.

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Speaker 1: We've got business to take care of. Now we're coming

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Speaker 1: off the heels. This has to be a lighthearted has

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Speaker 1: to be and that there has to be whiskey involved

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Speaker 1: because we're going to do our first got whiskey and

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Speaker 1: ethics here the Hunting Collective. Well, we need to drink

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Speaker 1: whiskey because we had a very tough couple of days here.

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Speaker 1: We were I don't want to say we were basking

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Speaker 1: in the glow of episode eighty two, we were more

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Speaker 1: standing in its shadow. I feel but a lot of you,

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Speaker 1: I will say more of you than I thought. I

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Speaker 1: enjoy the conversation and thought it was well handled, So

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Speaker 1: thank you for that. I think that was probably the

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Speaker 1: overwhelming sentiment. Um. But there were a few things that

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Speaker 1: people did not agree with, which I guess is my

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Speaker 1: way to address um. But where are you where? Where's

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Speaker 1: your head at? Phil? With what with the Barry K.

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Speaker 1: Gilbert episode of The Hunt Neglectum? Well, I've been fortunate

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Speaker 1: enough to be able to take a few steps back

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Speaker 1: from it. After I mixed it and sent it out

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Speaker 1: to you, I wiped my hands clean. But you've you're

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Speaker 1: the one who's been getting all the emails and the

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Speaker 1: the d m s, so a lot of them. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have not seen any of those, any of the

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Speaker 1: reaction besides the Instagram comments and stuff like that. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot. I mean, there's a lot of things

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Speaker 1: that went on there. I think one of the major

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Speaker 1: ones is that, uh, when we're when Barry and I

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Speaker 1: were talking very generalized, hunters is all being say anti predator,

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Speaker 1: not wanting to share the unglids that they eat with

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Speaker 1: predators like grizzy bears and wolves and things like that.

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Speaker 1: Now we all know that's wrong. Like, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: generalize any group. Hunters are not a monolith. You cannot

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Speaker 1: say all hunters think this, hunters do this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there certainly are cases and evidence of hunters shooting predators

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Speaker 1: for fun, or shooting predators in a contest, or wanting

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Speaker 1: to shoot predators to save the deer. There are examples

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Speaker 1: of that too. There's also examples of campers who litter

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Speaker 1: in DJs who play music too loud. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: all DJs play their music too loud and all campers

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Speaker 1: litter and so uh. Something that a couple of people

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Speaker 1: had criticized me for was coming back with, Hey, all

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Speaker 1: the hunters that I know don't feel that way about predators,

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Speaker 1: And I'll just say it's true. I don't know any

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Speaker 1: hunters that are anti predators because they want more deer round.

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Speaker 1: Most of the hunters I hang around with, if if

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Speaker 1: not all of them, believe in balancing an ecosystem, believing

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Speaker 1: carring capacity, and believe in healthy populations of all wildlife.

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Speaker 1: So that's where I'm at um and so in in

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Speaker 1: the conversation, I did say I said that. I said, listen,

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Speaker 1: I don't know any hunters who are anti predators. Now,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are saying, well, there's clearly hunters

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Speaker 1: out there that I want to kill predators and and

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Speaker 1: would like to see some predators wiped out of certain ecosystems. Yeah. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that the truth is somewhere in the middle ground.

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Speaker 1: But the type of hunters that I'm around and then

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Speaker 1: I talked to and then I want to highlight are

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Speaker 1: not those type. It's the type of hunters who are

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Speaker 1: looking for balance. So my my point of that that

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Speaker 1: podcast was very much to just to combat kind of

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Speaker 1: what I thought was a pretty gross generalization from from

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Speaker 1: Barry Gilbert. So that's where that came from. But I think, um,

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Speaker 1: there just was a lot and so at something we

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Speaker 1: had a couple of people in my so like, just

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Speaker 1: go to the Arizona Hunting Facebook page and and post

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Speaker 1: a picture for kaya. You don't even need to say anything,

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Speaker 1: just sit back and watch the hate flow in, you know.

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Speaker 1: So things like that, those were examples of people saying

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Speaker 1: that that I was wrong too kind of push back

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Speaker 1: with that, with that with my my own generalization. So

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Speaker 1: that's fine. That's that's probably a pretty decent critique. But

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Speaker 1: in I would say Phil, in the situation we are in,

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Speaker 1: getting a little offensive is probably just natural. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: he was. It was kind of funny because he definitely

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Speaker 1: was generalizing all hunters, even though he denied it. UM.

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Speaker 1: When you were like, I don't think all hunters, was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't say all hunters, and then he was I

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Speaker 1: think I remember him asking you, like or kind of confronted,

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Speaker 1: confronted you like, well, you would say most hunters, right,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, no, No, I wouldn't know. I would

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Speaker 1: not say most hunters. I would not. I think everyone

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Speaker 1: could agree with that. Yeah, most hunters do not want

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Speaker 1: most hunters do not want to kill all coyotes. Most

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Speaker 1: do not some there's some, sure, some out there that

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Speaker 1: see a picture of Kai and just wanted to be

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Speaker 1: dead and don't think twice about UM, But that's not

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Speaker 1: most hunters. Like I assume that most bear advocates don't

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Speaker 1: blindly dismiss any any other opinions. UM. I would hope

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Speaker 1: that they do not. So somewhere in the middle is

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Speaker 1: the truth almost always, and I'm sure in this case

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Speaker 1: that's what this was. UM. But like I say, most

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Speaker 1: most everybody was very positive and I appreciate that. UM,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people acting, would I have Barry Gilbert

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Speaker 1: on again? What do you think? Phil? I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's a horrible the answer I would say, no, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would go with no people had asked me. I

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Speaker 1: was like, man, I just can't say that. I was

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Speaker 1: pretty unflinching. I don't think. I don't think another conversation

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Speaker 1: would lead to anything productive. Yeah, and I don't. What

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Speaker 1: I would say about about Barry is that obviously he's credential.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's a tenured professor at Utah State University.

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Speaker 1: He's written books, he's given talks. I mean, he's a credential.

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Speaker 1: Um what I would call, I guess an intellectual. But uh,

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Speaker 1: as Phil said, he seemed pretty hardened to his points

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Speaker 1: of view. So I mean, it's not that I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: move him in one direction or the other. I think

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Speaker 1: he's pretty pretty dead set on what he believes. UM.

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Speaker 1: And the other point that a few folks brought up

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Speaker 1: was that maybe he didn't understand what a podcast was.

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Speaker 1: He thought he was just gonna come in here and

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask him some pad questions about book,

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Speaker 1: and he was gonna tell his story and tell give

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Speaker 1: him a hat. Yeah, give him a hat. That's the

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Speaker 1: other thing, Phil, Why didn't we give him a hat?

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Speaker 1: We should have just given him a damn hat. I

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Speaker 1: had a hat out there, could have given him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just didn't give him a hat. Feel bad. I

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Speaker 1: feel bad now. A lot of people wanted me to

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Speaker 1: give him a hat. So maybe I'll find his ad.

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Speaker 1: I got his address out there. I'll send him my

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Speaker 1: posting it on it. Here you go, here's your hat.

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Speaker 1: Here's your hat, man um. So anyway, we're gonna move

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Speaker 1: on from that. A little bit of catharsis that was needed.

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Speaker 1: But thanks for everybody right now. I just spend most

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Speaker 1: of my day this week, like Tuesday and Wednesday after

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Speaker 1: we launched that podcast, talking to you guys about it.

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Speaker 1: So it's important to me to kind of have those dialogues.

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Speaker 1: When something like this impacts as many people as it

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Speaker 1: seems to have impacted, it's important to continue to talk

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Speaker 1: about it, um, because I think this was less about

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Speaker 1: bears and wildlife management and more just about how to

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Speaker 1: talk to a person who don't agree with Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think that's probably what I would take more away from

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Speaker 1: this and just knowing that, you know, be nice to everyone,

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Speaker 1: like just be be If you have to concede some points,

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Speaker 1: it's okay sometimes to say like, yeah, you could be

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Speaker 1: right about that, but what about this? And that's the

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Speaker 1: way to move a conversation forward, not to be so

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Speaker 1: so hardened in your beliefs and so attached to your

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Speaker 1: worldview that you can't move, and in any time anyone

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Speaker 1: to ask you to move, you get angry. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's the biggest things I could see truly believing in

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Speaker 1: something after years of research and and gathering facts and

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Speaker 1: coming to a conclusion. But it's the fact that he

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Speaker 1: got so angry. Yeah, what about what you were saying?

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Speaker 1: I could see you having us like a a debate

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Speaker 1: in him just saying like, okay, well I disagree, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: nothing you say is going to movie in any way,

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Speaker 1: but thank you for presenting the points. Yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: I hear you. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

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Speaker 1: And he was not hearing Like I've heard that before

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Speaker 1: and I just have never valued that, but he was

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Speaker 1: not hearing um, and I just don't know. It was

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Speaker 1: a great example of of productive h two humans having

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Speaker 1: a productive conversation, like a productive interaction, And so it

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Speaker 1: was more about that to me than understand you understanding

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Speaker 1: that you get in these situations. Man, you just have

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Speaker 1: to and hopefully all you listening can take it back. Um,

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Speaker 1: I had a couple, I had two counselors and one

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Speaker 1: crisis negotiator right in and say that I would be

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Speaker 1: a good counselor in another life. So you have something

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Speaker 1: to fall back on. Thanks. Thanks for those folks that

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Speaker 1: prote in and said that, Um, yeah, you think I'd

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Speaker 1: be a good counselor. Phil, Yeah, can I start coming

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Speaker 1: to you? You're gonna have office hours and I can

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Speaker 1: just start start dropping by. I'm very distressed about my mustache,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, you shouldn't be. It's been two weeks. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you should probably just don't go out in public

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Speaker 1: until it until it fully grows in great advice. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know as a counselor doc. Yeah, anyway, I want

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Speaker 1: I'm not I hate to pat my own back because

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Speaker 1: that's what that was about at all, But it was.

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Speaker 1: It's a cool exercise to put out a conversation like

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Speaker 1: that and to see kind of what it stirs up

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Speaker 1: in people because I think some of it stirs up

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Speaker 1: like what's really the conversational wildlife management and carrying pascity,

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Speaker 1: like how do we how do we have a productive

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Speaker 1: version of that? And the other people is like how

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Speaker 1: do we talk to somebody that is emotionally connected to

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Speaker 1: what they believe and really can't see it? Because that

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Speaker 1: that can happen when you get together with your family

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Speaker 1: on a weekend and have dinner. That can happen at

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Speaker 1: with a coworker. That can happen really anywhere. And so

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Speaker 1: that's it's an important I don't want to know if

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Speaker 1: it's all. It's an important skill to have to be

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Speaker 1: able to kind of navigate those things because in our

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Speaker 1: world there's a lot of those things. I would say, So,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like that's good, Phil, it's a good feeling,

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Speaker 1: good bow to put on it? All right, we're putting

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Speaker 1: a bow on it. We'll leave it that behind. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: if you didn't listen, go back and listen to episode

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Speaker 1: eight two. Have you got this far with without knowing

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Speaker 1: the context of what we're talking about? I apologize, but

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Speaker 1: go back episode eighty two with Dr Barry Gilbert about

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Speaker 1: bears now introducing the first ever not so sharp moment.

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Speaker 1: Phil play the jingle Work Sharp, not so Sharp Moments Shop,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have to wow, wow, that's the jingle

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Speaker 1: gets in your head, it does, gets in your bloodstream.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like objecting hairin that that thing. Yeah, I apologize. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks Phil for ruin. Could be people are gonna be

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Speaker 1: sitting in their keyboards typing in an email. Work. We'll

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Speaker 1: see how they're feeling after ten weeks. We get it,

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Speaker 1: we know. Okay, So to recap, we've been asking you

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Speaker 1: last couple of weeks here prior to episode eighty two

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Speaker 1: about you're not so sharp moments and you're not so

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Speaker 1: sharp moments are presented by Work Sharp. Thank you, Work Sharp.

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Speaker 1: If you want to go to work sharp dot com

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Speaker 1: and check out their wonderful products, you can do that.

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Speaker 1: You need a sharp knife, goddamnit, just do always, no

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Speaker 1: matter where you are. If you had a sharp knife,

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Speaker 1: you can shave all fills, mustache and like two strokes,

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Speaker 1: like three al right, I'll give it to you. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: three strokes. Appreciate it. So we're gonna we're gonna give

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Speaker 1: you the first ever not sharp moment, and this it

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Speaker 1: comes from Elliott Bowling. Now Elliott is going to get

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Speaker 1: a work sharp field sharpener. Congratulations, whoa you did it.

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Speaker 1: You never thought that this idiotic moment would lead to anything,

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Speaker 1: would lead to any benefit at all, but it did.

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Speaker 1: If you could go back in time and tell yourself, wow,

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Speaker 1: this was occurring, I'm gonna field Sharp's going to get

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Speaker 1: your work sharp field sharpman or someday and some guy

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Speaker 1: on a podcast is going to read my email. Hey.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, thanks to everybody wrote in, we got a

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Speaker 1: bunch more slots coming up for not just sharp moments

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Speaker 1: to read in podcasts. So if you haven't sent in,

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Speaker 1: please do. We got a bunch more of these field

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Speaker 1: sharpenners to give out, a bunch more stories to tell.

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Speaker 1: But right now we gotta tell you Elliott's story. So Philip,

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Speaker 1: stop me if you have any questions, because this is

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Speaker 1: a it's a doozy okay, And then I'm gonna ask

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Speaker 1: that in post you put in lots of awesome sound effects.

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Speaker 1: Depending on how much time I have, I will put

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Speaker 1: in fil plenty of time. Yeah, you're right. What else

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Speaker 1: are you working on? No? Nothing, nothing, this is yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just your show. People don't really know, there aren't

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Speaker 1: any other podcasts in the men of your podcast nowhere,

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Speaker 1: and we get paid like a lot per show. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost like it's unbelievable about the money.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, and so we just focused just on this

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Speaker 1: kind of silliness. All right, here we go this from Elliott.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's let's take a moment to set the stage.

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Speaker 1: So a few years back, my guys and I were

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Speaker 1: freelance waterfowl hunting in Saskatchewan. Anyone who has done this

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Speaker 1: nose it involves a ton of driving to scout for birds.

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Speaker 1: A couple of days into this particular trip, our rental

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Speaker 1: truck had some transmission issues. Luckily, the rental company brought

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Speaker 1: us a new truck and we only lost about a

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Speaker 1: half a day of hunting and scouting. But during this

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Speaker 1: truck swap, put most of our gear back inside the

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Speaker 1: house where we were staying boots, coats, waiters, gloves, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: This turned into a major mistake as we resumed our

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Speaker 1: scouting with a new truck that afternoon and our excitement

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Speaker 1: hit the road. We basically left the house in leisure

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Speaker 1: wear jeans, hoodies, sneakers. It's mistake number one. Mistake number one,

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Speaker 1: just picture these gentlemen, all and leisure wear. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what kind of like. I'm just thinking, like you

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Speaker 1: thinking a smoking jacket, yeah, jacket, acid bast jeans, new

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Speaker 1: balanced sneakers, and maybe like hoodies with the sleeves cut off,

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Speaker 1: even maybe something like that. I mean, these guys like

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Speaker 1: there in Canada, they're looking great. They're in Canada. Maybe

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Speaker 1: a hockey jersey, you don't know, nobody knows, but they're

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Speaker 1: looking good. About an hour into the scouting, in the

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Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, we came across a dirt road that

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Speaker 1: was extremely muddy and eventually had water across the entire

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Speaker 1: road for about fifty yards. Of course, we decided to

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Speaker 1: blast through it. That's mistake number two. Within seconds we

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Speaker 1: were pulled off the road into a fairly deep ditch,

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Speaker 1: as stuck as I've ever been in my entire life. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's getting dramatic. Will they live well, at least one person? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think Elliott will because he could be the only

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Speaker 1: one that Maybe Elliott is like the son of one

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Speaker 1: of these guys. I never know, Maybe there's a twist

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Speaker 1: it could be. So let me set the stage for

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Speaker 1: the conclusion of this story. It's October, Saskatchewan, temperature probably

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Speaker 1: thirty degrees spitting snow. Three in the af ter noon

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Speaker 1: with about three hours of light left at most. Truck

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Speaker 1: stuck in the middle of nowhere, three dudes dressed like idiots.

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Speaker 1: He said that I didn't say, no cell signal and

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Speaker 1: really no one to call if we could. We start walking.

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Speaker 1: About an hour into the walking, we come across two

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Speaker 1: young Canadian fellas who are off to school for they're

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Speaker 1: out of school for the day so they're deer hunting.

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Speaker 1: They admit to us right away that they don't have

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Speaker 1: their driver's license, but they were super eager to pull

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Speaker 1: us out. I think this was the most exciting thing

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Speaker 1: that ever happened to them there in the middle. They

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Speaker 1: live in the middle of ye it's a sketch one.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing going on, like, holy sh it, dad, you

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Speaker 1: won't you won't. So we took them up when their

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Speaker 1: generous offer. We get back to our stuck truck, hook

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Speaker 1: up the chain and give it a go. Within ten

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Speaker 1: seconds they get stuck to oh oh no, but but

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Speaker 1: no worries. They have a friend with a big lifted

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Speaker 1: truck who will get us out that friend. After forty

423
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: five minutes he arrives, and now it's now dark, and

424
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 1: within minutes his truck is absolutely buried. Okay, so so far,

425
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: how many vehicles do we have in each Three? Three

426
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 1: trucks stuck? Okay, in the same spot. It's quite the collection.

427
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: But that's okay, Phil, don't worry. Good because he has

428
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: a friend who has never been stuck before. Okay that

429
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: I I remember them saying something similar about the Titanic. Yeah,

430
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: never been stuck. This guy unsinkable. About an hour later

431
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: he comes and gets stuck. And then I like, how

432
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: Elliott in his email put in parentheses, I'm not shooting you.

433
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: This all happened, Just to make sure. At this point

434
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: it sounds like he's making the show. No, this is

435
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: not a Marx Brothers film. YEA long story short. A

436
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: huge front end loader showed up around one am and

437
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,239
Speaker 1: pulled us all out. We pulled whatever cash we all

438
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: had and paid him for his service. We made it

439
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: home around two thirty am, soaked, muddy, half frozen. We

440
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: sat at our table and drank a couple of beers,

441
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: reflecting how dumb we were, but honestly and ended up

442
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: being one of the most memorable nights of our lives.

443
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 1: And we made some nice Canadian friends in the process.

444
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: Hey buddy, uh yeah, but there's just something. There's something.

445
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: It's a very funny image of all the bunch of

446
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: trucks pulling up and getting getting stuck. And if I

447
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: am good at arithmetic, that's four trucks stuck, all attached

448
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: to each other. But don't worry. We got a friend.

449
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: We got a guy. We got a guy from here.

450
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: That's like if you had a baseball team, like we

451
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: got a guy. I know, we had to lose a streak.

452
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: We lost three games in a row, but we got

453
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: a guy. Got hit a home run every swing. Got

454
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: the guy, he comes in, he solves the problems. Well,

455
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: thanks for writing in Elliott, and we're gonna get you

456
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: work sharp field sharpener for all your anguish in Saskatchewan.

457
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 1: And thanks to Canada. Yeah, big, big shout out to Canada.

458
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: Shout out of Canada, Beautiful. We like you my home

459
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: in Native Length, Oh Canada. We stand on guard for thee.

460
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: That was beautiful. All right, that's a good way to

461
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: let's hit that the work Sharp jingle one more time,

462
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: film work Sharp, not to sharp moment, so you don't

463
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: have getting out. They're definitely going to be sick of it. Yeah,

464
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it all right. Next week

465
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: we're gonna do another not so sharp moments. So if

466
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 1: you've got something that could beat Elliott's four trucks stuck

467
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: in one muddy ditch, send it in. We want to

468
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: hear it. Not too long, not too short, perfect length,

469
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: do it perfect, do it perfect? All right. Now we're

470
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: onto a little bit of meatator whiskey, a little bit

471
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: of ethics. We're gonna talk about gripping grinds. Got some

472
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: surprise guests. You're gonna like it. Enjoy. I guess I

473
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: grew up on all the road. Hey, everybody, we're in

474
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: the Metator studio. Did you hear this jingling? Because we're

475
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: all drinking the whiskey. You know, it wasn't long ago

476
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: in Montana you could um that you could not You

477
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: couldn't drive drunk. You could drive drinking. Yeah, for a

478
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: long time, for a long time, there's no speed limit.

479
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: State limit was reasonable and prudent, and you couldn't drive drunk.

480
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: You could have a drink, and it used to be

481
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: fun to pick up someone at the airport with uh

482
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: cocktail with ice in it. And I always think when

483
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: I hear this noise, I think of like taking corners

484
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: in a car, trying to have someone's cocktail already form

485
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: at the airport, because when you're driving here, ice clinking

486
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: in the glass. That's the voice of Steven Ronella, folks.

487
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: And we also have Miles Nolte in the rooms. I

488
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: also very much remember and fondly the days when I

489
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: get picked up at the airport here and some would

490
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: have a beer waiting for me in the cup holder

491
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: for the right home road soda. It was really nice.

492
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: I mean not to say that that culture has completely

493
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: died here, it's just not legal anymore. Yeah, Yeah, they

494
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: got after him. They the reason they wrestled the state

495
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: into conformity was through highway funding, Federal highway funds. They

496
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: threatened to take them away. Yeah, they'd like, well, you

497
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: gotta we can't. We're not gonna give you the money

498
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: unless you come in line on certain things. Yes, in

499
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: the in the state of Louisiana, you'd still do a

500
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: drive through liquor store. Many states not just as well.

501
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: Wyoming is one of them, and you can drive through

502
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: what they do is they'll give you a full style

503
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: from glass of some sort of alcoholic beverage, but they

504
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: put the little straw cover on the top that prevents

505
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: you from having it. Take. I would love to have some,

506
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: but I can't get can't get this off. I have

507
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: to pull over to get this straw cover off. This

508
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: is not an open container. It's covered this grain alcohol

509
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: slushy that I've got. It's a big gult side. Anyways, meat,

510
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: eat straight, briver and whiskey. Only drinking if you're twenty

511
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: one and up and you're in a don't drink and drive. Yeah. Yeah,

512
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the applause at the beginning of right, Phil,

513
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard applause at the beginning

514
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: of any of your podcasts or or after. I can

515
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: start adding that in post. Don't criticize me, Phil, Anyway,

516
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: We're here to do some things. One of the things

517
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: we want to do is talk about ethics. And the

518
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: reason why I think whiskey could help that because maybe

519
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: we have a lack of inhibitions because often when we're

520
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: talking about these very important issues, we measure our words.

521
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: Everybody gets measured. You think maybe we just will just

522
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: get rid of that for this next forty five minutes

523
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: or so, trying to think of a quote. No that

524
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: that quote doesn't fit. Never mind, you'll never you'll never know,

525
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: you'll never find, never know what quote it was. Um,

526
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: all right, So the topic is gripping grins, Uh, Steve,

527
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: you want to try to finding defining that term for us.

528
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: When I think of a grip and grant, I think, um,

529
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: it's a photo. I first heard the term grip and

530
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: grin from my when I was in graduate school. I

531
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: had a roommate named j. Nichols and he went out

532
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: to have this very illustrious career in uh fun and

533
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 1: fishing media, fly fishing media, and we were talking one

534
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: day about covers, magazine covers, and he was saying to

535
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: me that when it comes to magazine covers, you just

536
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: cannot beat. When it comes like sales or whatever, you

537
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: cannot beat a grip and grin. And I was like,

538
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: what's the grim and grin? And it's what you think

539
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: it's like when someone holding up holding up a fish.

540
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: And in the context that he was discussing someone holding

541
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: up a fish, but it's a great term. I think

542
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: it applies to hunting and fishing. In my mind, a

543
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: grip and grin is a photo with the explicit purpose

544
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: of saying, uh, here I am, and here's the thing

545
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: I got. And it's like not doing anything other than

546
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: establishing the catcher, shooter, hunter, angler, whatever and the thing

547
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: they got. It's not like really, it's not artistic, it's

548
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: not it's just a documentation tying the person to do

549
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: the two things together. It's like he got this often

550
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: called a trophy photo. Yeah, people take different take but

551
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of different takes on and some new

552
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: takes on. You know, there's something that are goofy and

553
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: but but yeah, it's just like that's what it's for. Well,

554
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: there's there's the screaming redneck. There's the solemn yeah, measured hunter.

555
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: There's the in your face, in your face one. There's

556
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: like I kind of regret doing it. Yeah, there's like

557
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm sad. There's the over over direct, overwhelmed by respect

558
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: touching it. Sometimes you would stroke it or touch it

559
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: and over it. Yeah, sometimes top of it. The photographer

560
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: caught you in the actor with eyes closed. You didn't

561
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: even know that they were there. Uh, that's I hate

562
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: when photographers sneak up with me when I go. You

563
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: weren't here the whole time. Uh, but yeah, it's all that.

564
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: That's my idea of a grip and grin. Yeah, everybody

565
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: knows when you see one. Yeah, you know when you

566
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: see it, like a guy gotten a deer is not

567
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: a grip and grind. Nope. I've been recently going around

568
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: social media and people take photos that aren't gripping, Like,

569
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: that's the worst figured I've ever seen. You blew it,

570
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: get down behind there and get to spile it. But

571
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: to your point, I think the grip and grin when

572
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: it became like an established genre, then then people felt

573
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: the need to have little spins and tweaks on it,

574
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: and so they weren't getting called out on well that's

575
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: just a gripping grin. There's it does nothing more than

576
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: establish as you said, it was Catcher and the cot

577
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: then that now like they're the different angles to it

578
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: to try and sort of make it a little bit

579
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: more Yeah, contextualized. Yeah, Well it was when people started.

580
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: It was when people started to point out and Ben

581
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: can explain what the problem is. It was when people

582
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: started to point out that there was a problem with them.

583
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: That people took a new tact, but if you but

584
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: they evolve over time, because the old fishing grip and

585
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 1: grim was you hang some bloody, half rotten fish on

586
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: a hook or just a nail, yeah, like nail it

587
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: to tree and stand there holding fishing. And that was

588
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: like the Hemingway era, like you nailed it whatever. And

589
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,239
Speaker 1: then then then gripping grins around the time that I

590
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: was introduced to the term grip and grin, uh, around

591
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: that time, it was that a proper fishing grip and

592
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: grin sort of left a little ambivalence about whether the

593
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: fish was would be returned to the wall or dead,

594
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: you know, like you're kind of holding it by the water,

595
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: and it left the interpretation like you just removed it

596
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: for a short bit. Yeah, like I don't know, he

597
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: ate it, he threw it away. I don't know what

598
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: the hell happened, but he was up, he was it

599
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: was undecided at the time the photos, it looked like

600
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: he was just gonna talk to it. And then then

601
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: the evolved where you dip the fish's face down in

602
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: the wall and you'd be like, oh, he's definitely And

603
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: then there's ones where they're not even out of the

604
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: water and it's like he's absolutely letting that go. I mean,

605
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: you skipped a generation. There there was like the nailed

606
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: to the post or nailed to the true fish, and

607
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: then there was along but then there was like my

608
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: my parents generation where it was everyone's back at the dock.

609
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: You're just standing like in a yard somewhere, and someone's

610
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 1: holding a fish. Well some fish, trophy trophy fish are

611
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: held to the camera. If you got like a mess

612
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: of croppy, you don't hold him up. You lay them

613
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: down on the tailgate on the dock and bind them up.

614
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: Most like a mess of squirrels in a hunting world

615
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: says a whole different deal based on that big game. Yeah.

616
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: Remember remember you know eagle claw hooks. Yeah, smelled hook. Yeah,

617
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: that's a couple of dudes with with what sixty trout

618
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: strung out on a stick. They use that image my

619
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: entire life. Absolutely, that's like classic grip. We can't forget

620
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: the rose like the Roseveltian grippy grin, Like grippy grin,

621
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: the gripp and grippy grin. Yeah, that's whiskey. You put

622
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: your foot up on like a show of dominance. You

623
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: can't do that. That's not reverence. That's dominance. You can't

624
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: do that now, And maybe that's the shift that we're

625
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: talking about, Like nailed to a board is deaf only

626
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: dominance in the fish world? Oh yeah, Would that be

627
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: the equivalent of the Roosevelt boot to the throat? Probably?

628
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: I'm aware of a grip and grind. Ben's aware of

629
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: this grip and grin. There's a grip and grin in existence.

630
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: Did is a man grip and grinning with a gorilla?

631
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. From it's like an old ruger, an

632
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: old firearm, and like he his thing. It's that comes

633
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: to the testimonial. He's got his grill and he's like,

634
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: by god, the ultimately couldn't have gotten it done without

635
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: my without what I don't want to say. I don't

636
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: know if it's the ultimate predator takes on the ultimate predator. Yeah,

637
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 1: I mean, so they're like this thing. It's it's easy

638
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: to it's easy to pick out, but maybe hard to define,

639
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: like you know when you see it. It's kind of

640
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: like has to pass the bar test, like if you

641
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: show a buddy, you know when you see it. But

642
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: you can be defined in many ways and has over

643
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: time been defined. Man, I could do it extremely quickly. Yeah,

644
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: Oh that's a grip, and I think it's probably the

645
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: most common over of decades use how we communicate success

646
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: to each other. Like I would come to you, I'm

647
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: not gonna come to you and show you a picture

648
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: of me hiking in if I kill the bull, I'm

649
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: gonna show you the gripper is the thing I'm showing.

650
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: You know, Man, when you get something and you're like

651
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: your bodies know you're doing something, you're saying, man, you

652
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: know we're going if I could just catch a permit.

653
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: This is my third trip and I still haven't caught

654
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: a permit, And your body's like, do You'll never catch

655
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: your permit? Right? And you go and you catch a permit,

656
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: You don't. You're not gonna text your body the minute

657
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: you get a signal. You're not gonna text him a

658
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: picture you launched in the boat. It's gonna be the pose.

659
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: There lies the problem with with the gripping grip. Right,

660
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: what we think it is is not what other people

661
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: think it is, and that's well documented. Now there's different

662
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: levels of that, but I think in this conversation you

663
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: come to a point where social media enters the fray

664
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: because when I first got into the honey industry, like

665
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: you couldn't I work for American Hunter magazine, Peters, it's honey,

666
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: you couldn't not put a gripping grin on the cover.

667
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 1: And then you start we started not putting gripping grins

668
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: on the cover, but it was still it's still we

669
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: still had to signify the same thing and make sure

670
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: people were feeling the same way. And that turned into

671
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, a skull on a pack or you know

672
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: a guy leaning by a fire with the with the

673
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: skull up against the tree that had just killed a bull. Like,

674
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: we still had to signify the same thing. We just success,

675
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: but we got to a point where it was cliche

676
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: or was burned out that just a dude in a

677
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: big buck wasn't gonna do it. So there was one

678
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: version of like we just wanted to be a little

679
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: bit You wanted to capture a movement. Yeah, same same moment,

680
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: same feeling, the same result, just a different depiction of

681
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: that is where that genre started to blend out, right,

682
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: And now now it's it's even become sort of a

683
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: character of itself in some ways. Now you've got the

684
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: classic the wall tent lit from inside the shadow, then

685
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: against the crossing the river. Everybody's always gonna be crossing

686
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: the river. Some photographer one day was like, that will

687
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: be very dynamic if you cross the river with with

688
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: with a head or you're packing up. Typically, yeah, but

689
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: the skull is wrapped up because it's not an actual

690
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: hunting picture. And oftentimes oddly they look ready for they

691
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: have their rifle at the ready. It's like and they're

692
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: only carrying the antlers, they're not carrying the meat, and

693
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: they're at the ready like he's got a cow tag too. Yes,

694
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: when I was so, I later in my career at Peterson's,

695
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: I started to point that out. I'm like listen because

696
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: they're like, well you know this, this is this shows

697
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: you know what the hunt's really about. I said, well,

698
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: there's no more trophy photo in existence than a dude

699
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: just carrying out the head. Where's the meat? Like this

700
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 1: is doing the same thing, Like it has the same

701
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: kind of he's got some mud on his face. Yeah,

702
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: he's at the ready like he's gonna shoot another thing. Yeah,

703
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: he's got he's only by himself. So this as clearly

704
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: it's clearly his fourth trip out. If he's got an

705
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: elk on his back because he did he did take

706
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: the meat. I'm assuming the gripp and grin became popular

707
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: for a reason. As you said, it sold a lot

708
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: of magazines for a lot of ears. Right, So when

709
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: that when that pressure emerged, because I was part of

710
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: the magazine world at that time too, to do something

711
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: other than grippen and grins. You still have to signify

712
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: that same thing without being as cliche about it. But

713
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: you're still trying to do the same thing getting away

714
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: from I want to be clear, I don't understand this.

715
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: You mean getting away from grip of grins because they

716
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: were cliche or getting away from gripp of grins because

717
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: people felt that it was not the right image to

718
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: put out. I would say both. I would say both

719
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: of those things were played there some of it because

720
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: we've seen this a million times, so it's it's played right.

721
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: It is. It has become a cliche, and it's also

722
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: not what we We don't want to privilege this moment

723
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: of dominance to be as the the ultimate goal of

724
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: what we're doing. We don't want to advertise it, whether

725
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: or not we admit that it is or not. We

726
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: don't want to advertise you want to insert some level

727
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: of nuance to the conversation, Like most magazines want to

728
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: vary their topics and vary their like the touch points

729
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: in which they're communicating. You want to say different things

730
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: with different images. Does fly Fisherman? What's not on the

731
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: cover of Fly Fisherman nowadays? Is it still a dude

732
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: holding the fish? A lot of the time it is? Yeah, Yeah,

733
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: in Fisherman similar Yeah, North American whitetail very similar. It's

734
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: it's like it's always inside the story of No, the

735
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: deer magazines don't. They don't put grips on, they put

736
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 1: the put they put fenced in bucks they do that too.

737
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: But that's a whole different whiskey and ethics topic, right,

738
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: But that's I mean, I think here's the deal. Here's

739
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: one thing we should touch on it. At what point

740
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: within the honey we have say this? What within the

741
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: hunting community? At what point is one of these images

742
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: in poor taste? It's in poor chaste. I'll just tell

743
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: you what I think. I think it's in poor taste

744
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: when the purpose of it is to incite anger and uh,

745
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: to incite anger and incite passions, to incite negative passions,

746
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: in preparing for thinking about this, I thought about this

747
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: the ter day. Well, let me let me hold my

748
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: analogy until you've better lay it out what it is,

749
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: what's that issue? But I think it's becomes import taste

750
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: and the point is to piss people off. Yeah, but

751
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: I think it doesn't that come from context. Like I

752
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: give me an example of someone who took a grip

753
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: and grim with the intention of inciting anger. I think

754
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: they took their grip and grin hoping theoretically to remember

755
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: that moment and have whatever they wanted, and then it

756
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: gets leaked out and sent around the internet. And that's

757
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: what insights. Okay, when you if you let's say, let's

758
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: just say not that this whatever happened. Never let's just

759
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: say a guy shot a little family of bab moons.

760
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: That's where I was exactly going, okay, and you line

761
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: ends them all up like a little family, or a

762
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: guy shoots a baboon, not that this is what happened,

763
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: and props it up in the front of his truck

764
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 1: and puts a cigarette in his mouth and put some

765
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: sunglasses in it on its and puts a baseball cap

766
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: on it um and then there he is sitting in

767
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: the driver's seat in his little baboon is sitting in

768
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: the passenger seat, and that's his that's his photo to

769
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: tell to announce to his buddy's that he's uh very

770
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: graciously rid the world of another annoying baboon, but he's

771
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: a great white hunter. I think that that is in

772
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: poor taste, and I think that he was that the

773
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: purpose of the photo was to convey a level of

774
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: disrespect and malicious feelings towards his quarry. I think there's

775
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: there's a there's a valid example. There's an asshole test

776
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: that we can all take like and in in in

777
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: the modern sense, nobody the good and bad thing about

778
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: where we are. In the modern sense of social media

779
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: and huntings that there are you know, say there's fourteen

780
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: million hunters, thirteen million, how every want to chalk that up.

781
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: Everybody can tell a story. Everybody that's connected to the

782
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: internet can go post a photo and tell their story.

783
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: That's where this becomes important. It becomes these photos, these

784
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: depictions become a big part of your story. So if

785
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: the story you're telling is baboon with a cigarette in

786
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: its mouth and sunglasses, or you standing on top of

787
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: a dead giraffe or whatever the case might be. You're

788
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there as that's yours. That's how you're

789
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: going to convey your story. Wasn't there a person that

790
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: recently had a photo of something they had killed. A

791
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: woman hunting in Scotland, I believe, had a photo of

792
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: something that she'd shot, and for some reason she decided

793
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: to pose with a dildo bloodied with the animals blood,

794
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: as though she had somehow sexually. Yeah, it was a

795
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: violated or a cheap but like a sheep the sheep shop,

796
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 1: not a wild sheep, but a sheep sheep, farm sheep.

797
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: And that was and it served the purpose. It was

798
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: like if you do if you looked at like the

799
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: definition of a grip and grin, it's sort of I

800
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: would if someone's doing flash cards and like grip and grin,

801
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: a grip and grin, And I wasn't weighing on I

802
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: wasn't weighing on taste. And I was just like it

803
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: was a binary yes, no, I'd be and they showed

804
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,439
Speaker 1: that I'd be like a grip yes and very poor taste. Yeah,

805
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: what is that is that conveying respect for the quarry?

806
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: Is it that you have that you're proud it was

807
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: you achieved. It was like the fulfillment of some desire

808
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: to achieve something or was it just that you're trying

809
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: to sort of shame express your disrespect for it's surely boastful.

810
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: I think it fits into the dominance category. No, it's

811
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: like a bloody fist dildo to me, screaming I dominated this. Well,

812
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: the story is like the story as well. It's a joe.

813
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: We're at a bachelortte party and we it's not fun. Yeah,

814
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: it's it's a joke, not well landed, and there's some

815
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: boastfulness in that. I'm not anyone that could do that,

816
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: anyone that would do that. Um, I don't think that

817
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 1: they look at animals the way I look at them,

818
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't trust anything that ever came out of

819
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: their mouth. And this is the person who did it

820
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: is a famous hunt like famous huntress as it were

821
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: many followers, many hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram

822
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: and remains remains that today. Um, she still has sponsors.

823
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: She went through this. They made t shirts kind of

824
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: mocking the controversy. Um. And so I think all of

825
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: that shows who she is and how what she thinks

826
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: about hunting and the quarry and in the culture um

827
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: betrays a level of cynicism in the culture that I

828
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 1: find just really dark and problematic. Yeah, but but again,

829
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: I mean on social media nowadays, we're all conveying some message.

830
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: You don't post without the intent to convey a message. No,

831
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: of course not, you don't. People that don't have any

832
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: message that conveyed aren't on social Media's that's why I

833
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: always love, Uh, this is a little bit off topic,

834
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: but I always love people whose social media persona is

835
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: that they don't care. It's like, it's like, but you

836
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: do care, Like I don't. People don't care, they're not here.

837
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: I really don't care. Media every don't care. But every

838
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: every every there's probably million, there's probably billions of social

839
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: media counts. They're all creative because somebody is trying to

840
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: signal something to someone else on social media. If you

841
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: write stuff, if you comment on social media, you have

842
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: to admit that you care. You want to engage in

843
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: a dialogue. You can't have it be that I'm on

844
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: social media because I don't care. It's like, you know what,

845
00:46:53,520 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: I don't like virtue signaling. Well, not liking, virtue, good luck. Paradox, Yes,

846
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: quite a paradox. But at this point I have a

847
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: thing here to ask a question. That's ken. They's ken

848
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: gripping grins and social media be separated in the future,

849
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, man, it's a great question because there's the

850
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: there's the what ought to be and what is should be?

851
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: A rock song's we got a lot of power these days.

852
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:30,240
Speaker 1: We can make if there is a membrane, in my opinion,

853
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: if the remains of membrane between UM photography and social media,

854
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: it's a very very thin membrane, and it would really

855
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: only be UM. And it would really be only the

856
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: case if someone had, like if you had a really

857
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: compromising photo, I would imagine that you would have it

858
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: on uh, you would have a physical copy of the photo,

859
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: and you would guard that photo very closely. Because the

860
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: many you share digital images from phone to phone to phone,

861
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: that membrane that exists between that images exposure UM through

862
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: social media dissolves like you can't keep We talked about

863
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: the Baboon case. In the Baboon case, he didn't bring

864
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: it to social media, did not well, he did? He

865
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: sent it colleagues. How thick was the membrane between those

866
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 1: colleagues and social media, not that it's not it's like

867
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: it was. It's it's like, I mean, it's become so obviously.

868
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 1: It's like now you were talking about but when there's

869
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: a photo on your phone, it's seconds away. It's but

870
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: that's it. It's like the membrane is never thinner than

871
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: it is now and it will be in the future.

872
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: When you take a photo, you're like, why did I

873
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: take that photo? Right? When there was no social media

874
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: like to capture of memory to share with others, right,

875
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: there was limited there's limited outlets to share with others.

876
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: You could print that photo out and put it in

877
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: a book and show people, much like it hunting industry

878
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: trade shows and years past, everybody will be walking around

879
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: with a little foot book, um all their things that

880
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: they've killed, or all their photos from the field. Yeah,

881
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: if you knew that, here's if you knew that you

882
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: were the last person alive on earth. Yea, and you

883
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: somehow just knew it. Right, It's like it was the truth,

884
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: and you always would be would you take photos? No,

885
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be wasting my time, and I would I'd

886
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: be like I had a lot of free time. Now

887
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: it's just about me. They got it. There's a show

888
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: like about that for the last man on Earth, I think.

889
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, look now that social media exists,

890
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: as you said, Steve, every photo taken is normally one

891
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: very brief and simple step away from being shared with

892
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 1: any number of people. And so when you're taking a photo,

893
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: unless you're while taking thinking I'm never gonna show this

894
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: to anyone, what's the point of taking it. Who's the

895
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 1: politician that accidentally posted compromising photos of himself to social media?

896
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: The last name is Wiener. Yeah, then he think he

897
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: was possible accidentally He's like, yeah, so it's the membrane

898
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 1: is so thin, there was like it could be accidentally

899
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: shared on social media. You're gone once it's in the cloud,

900
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: it's in the ether. Like the photo can't really be

901
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: separated from social media, even if you yourself intend to separate.

902
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: But let me let me just point out by the

903
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 1: tone of this conversation right now, there assumes some level

904
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: of shame to Grip and grins. The way we were

905
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: talking about right now is the fear of thin membranes

906
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: and things getting out. And that wasn't a question the

907
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: question of fear. Is there a difference? The question was

908
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: can you talk about grip and grins outside of talking

909
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: about social media? And I said, should be a reality,

910
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: because I think, of course you should be able to

911
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: very much talk about private images. There's a there's room

912
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: for private images. Not that I'm saying that grins should

913
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 1: be private, but I'm saying, in reality, we find that

914
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: there tends to be a fluidity between things being taken

915
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: and them being distributed. Right, But we did get there

916
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: from the conversation about gribb and grints. Yes, yes, so

917
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: there is some sense that, at least in some cases,

918
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: perhaps in the case of the the Baboons, some grip and grins,

919
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: do you have an associated shame to them? I think

920
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 1: what he's saying is this, Why am I talking about

921
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: what I think Ben's We're gonna get where? I got

922
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: a whole list of things. I mean, I may I

923
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: may be putting my own spin on this because I

924
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: personally do have conflict around gripping grants. Yeah, so I

925
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: think I don't assume shame at all. What I'm trying

926
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: to get at with the point of like, when is

927
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: an image in poor taste? Can you separate social media

928
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: and these images. Is the why of taking a photo

929
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 1: what you like, the intention of sharing it. That doesn't

930
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: mean on social media. But when you start talking about

931
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: sharing an image in that's where it's going. That's where

932
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: it's going, even if you give it directly to someone else.

933
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: As we've already established that membrane is thin. And so

934
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: now I want to rephrase everything I said shot about it.

935
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: I was giving advice to someone. Okay, If I'm giving

936
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: advice to someone and this is not this is grip

937
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: and grins, whatever, naked photos of your spouse, I don't care.

938
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: But if I was giving advice to someone, um, I

939
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 1: would say that if you when you take a photo,

940
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: when you take a digital image, um, and hold onto it,

941
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: I would view it. I would view it like this,

942
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: Am I comfortable? Okay? When you take it digital image

943
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: and share it with somebody, I would ask myself, am

944
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: I comfortable sharing this with some broad spectrum of the world. Yes,

945
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: just as a piece of advice. HU, I think if

946
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: we really want to continue to take things like grip

947
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: and grins, like take these photos of like smoking baboons

948
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 1: or whatever, like what, we'll put those out of the

949
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: put those out of the conversation of what, like what

950
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: a real what the what the bulk of grim guns

951
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: are like we use them as kind of huntings, trading cards,

952
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: like hey, look look what I've done. It's kind of

953
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: a signification of things, of accomplishments. I think we need

954
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: to understand, like offline and online, what's the context are

955
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: taken in, why are we taking them? What do we

956
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: intend to do with them? All that stuff leading up

957
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: to the taking of the image really defines what happens

958
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 1: after that, because, as you said, the thin membrane between

959
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: social media gets thinner by the moment that it exists,

960
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: the moment that's exposed to anyone else. So as you

961
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: spread that image around, say you send an email to colleagues,

962
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: the membrane gets any it gets thinner, you know, as

963
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: you amplify that image. And so when you're taking the

964
00:53:55,120 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: photo at that point there's not a memory, there's a vacuum,

965
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: and the instagram is sucking your picture that that's a

966
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: good picture. So I just want to make the point

967
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: I'm making is and taking these images. I think maybe

968
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: the hunter with the dildo and the goat was thinking, oh,

969
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: this is a funny. It'll be going the photo album

970
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: of the I'm hoping they were thinking, Oh, going the

971
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: photo album of our bridal party. Here, it's gonna be great.

972
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 1: It'll be funny. We'll have a laugh at it later. Okay, great,

973
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: that's fine. But as a hunter, you gotta think a

974
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 1: little deeper than that. You can't just and she was

975
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: a famous hunter at that or some semi famous hunter.

976
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: If you care, if you care, you just which you should, no,

977
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: because you should carry should care? I mean if you care.

978
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: I don't mean if you care, because different people wage

979
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: the wars in their lives in different ways. So I

980
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: don't mean if you care. Uh, I think that's proper.

981
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 1: If you care, if you care about hunting, now, that's

982
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: what that's the waybe. We can pivot to the next thing.

983
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: Because grip and grins have been weaponized by folks that

984
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: don't want hunting to continue, certain types of honey or

985
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: hunting all together. Yeah, you want to know what hunters think? Look, yeah,

986
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: look at it holding up the dead animal. They don't care.

987
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: So if you so, maybe if if again, to your

988
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: in a vacuum, if we're all three sitting in this

989
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: thing and a grip and great social media exists, but

990
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: anti hunters don't exist. No one's ever used a grip

991
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 1: and Grand to start a controversy. Then it's a different conversation.

992
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 1: You can say, like you don't really have to say pejoratively,

993
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: like if you care or don't care. But given the

994
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: fact that people take these things and use them against us,

995
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how every hunting controversy starts. Every So

996
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: the person the dead thing. So when you're taking when

997
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: you're taking a grip and Grand in nineteen, you have

998
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: to do so with the knowledge that this exists. I yeah,

999
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: you have to do so, do so with the knowledge

1000
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: that it exists. But I believe, and I don't agree

1001
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 1: with them all, but I believe that people are doing

1002
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: it with the knowledge that it exists, and they're using

1003
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: that for different purposes. That's right. I don't agree with

1004
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: them all, but I think that there are people who

1005
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: do it with different purposes. And so this is this

1006
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: is where it comes like the the reactive culture where

1007
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: I have to change my behavior based on what everybody

1008
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: feels or things that's not And that's where my analogy

1009
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: comes in. Yeah, oh yeah, I want to give it now.

1010
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: For I thought about this lots. I knew we were

1011
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: gonna talk about this. Okay. Uh, imagine that you're you

1012
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: support your supporter of President Trump. You'd like to see

1013
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: President Trump elected in the next election, and um, to

1014
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: express your feelings about this, you put in your yard

1015
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: Trump Pence. Okay, straight up, Trump Pence. Someone comes to

1016
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: you and they say, hey, man, I prey shape that

1017
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: you're expressing your support for the president. But you know,

1018
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: there's some people that don't like Trump, and when they

1019
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: drive by and they see that sign, it makes them

1020
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: kind of mad and they actually get madder than they

1021
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: already are about President Trump. Therefore, I feel that you

1022
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: should take down your Trump sign. No way, no way.

1023
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: Someone's not gonna do that. Now. The other day I

1024
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: saw a sign, uh so take that person. And there

1025
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: day I saw a sign that said it was a

1026
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: it was a Trump sign, and it said make liberals

1027
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: cry again. Okay, um, it's like prol Trump makes cry again.

1028
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 1: Now is that person furthering their cause of the reelection

1029
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: of President Trump? And now are they having this sort

1030
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: of honest debate They're saying, here's what I believe in.

1031
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: I'm putting forth my um my perspective, showing my support

1032
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm engaging in democracy all this kind of stuff. Or

1033
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: are they putting up a thing where the point is

1034
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: the point is just too make people kind of mad

1035
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: and they had like some fun at your expense. Is

1036
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: that furthering the campaign? Is that furthering the campaign of Trump?

1037
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: Or is that you just want to piss people off.

1038
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: I got a good Here's it's something that actually happened,

1039
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: not that what your analogy has definitely happened, but this

1040
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: is something I read it. This is something. So Peter

1041
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: had a thing where it was they were sharing photos

1042
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: with like the logo of like, animals aren't trophies. So

1043
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: that's what Peter was allowing that little overlay on photos

1044
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: on Facebook. You could grab it and put that logo

1045
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: if you're a PETA supporter. Well, hunters started grabbing that

1046
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: and ironically putting it on there trophy photos. They're gripping

1047
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: grins started flooding, ironically flooding the internet with you know,

1048
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: animals that can't be marginalized photos their trophies. And all

1049
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: that did at the end of the day was give

1050
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: Peter Moore ammo. Peter was like, oh, look at all

1051
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: these asshole hunters throwing up there trophy photos of disrespect

1052
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: and animals, and it was easy. It's almost like Peter

1053
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: poked at hunters enough to get them to react, and

1054
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: when they reacted, Peter jumped all over that. So look

1055
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: at all these dickhead hunters are exactly what we said

1056
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: they were. There they go again. All they want to

1057
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: do is brag and lay down their egos. Well, these

1058
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: are both examples of I mean very much what you

1059
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: were saying earlier than virtue signaling, right, And and if

1060
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: the goal is to further a bigger, like more nuanced

1061
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: conversation where two sides were able to have a debate

1062
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 1: and trying to understand each other's point of view, I

1063
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: don't think that's the point the purpose either in either

1064
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 1: of these case. This. I think that in general, if

1065
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: you're putting up a grip and grin, you are announcing

1066
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: to the world I believe in the values of hunting

1067
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: and fishing. I don't believe in the values of peda.

1068
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: This is who I'm all about. I will use an

1069
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: example from my own background in this. A long time

1070
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: ago before I was before I was married, and I

1071
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: was considering doing some online dating, and a friend of

1072
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: mine said, you know what you need to do in

1073
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: your profile picture. In your profile picture, you need to

1074
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: put up a picture of you holding holding a dead deer,

1075
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: just to cut through the bullshit, because then you won't

1076
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 1: have to worry about like the wrong kind of women

1077
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: who would be offended by your lifestyle reaching out and

1078
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: one to date you. Yeah, I get where he's coming out.

1079
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: I was. I did not agree. I did not agree,

1080
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: and that is not what I did. But I think,

1081
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: like I think, My point is, I think that the

1082
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: grip and grin has become one of these lines in

1083
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,919
Speaker 1: the sand, one of these demarcations of identity for better

1084
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: or worse that now gives it a lot of power,

1085
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: Whereas maybe it was just the thing initially, like hey,

1086
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: I want to show off how proud I am of this.

1087
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: It's not that anymore. It has a lot of cultural

1088
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: baggage attached to it. It's an explicit expression of value exactly,

1089
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: which is why I personally am conflicted about the grip

1090
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: and grand kind of as a genre. Yeah, maybe we

1091
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: can maybe we should just now say, like kind of

1092
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: what we give, go around and give our own kind

1093
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: of take on what we can do with this situation

1094
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: seems fraught. I mean I think, I think I'm conflicted,

1095
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: and I will I will go are you in here

1096
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: right now? But you can't see and and so it's

1097
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: just the animal being dominated by a dude. I'm dominating

1098
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: the hell out of that move. It's an animal being

1099
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: dominated by an anonymous figure. Oh, and the conflict is

1100
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: real because there are hundreds of grip and grand photos

1101
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:55,919
Speaker 1: of me that exists. Yeah, there are that happened, right.

1102
01:01:56,440 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: But to put this in more specific terms, I used

1103
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: to run a guiding and outfitting service here and we

1104
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: had well here was our deal man. We had a

1105
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: social media account. We were trying to bring in business, right,

1106
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: and on our Instagram feed it drove me nuts. We

1107
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: will put up these beautiful photos of like, you know,

1108
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: people out and joining themselves and like really well composed.

1109
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: They didn't give a ship. The only engagement we got

1110
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: was a griping photos. But do these boys catch fish?

1111
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, exactly, like, oh that's great, they have phone

1112
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: and all. That's a nice lunch. Oh look at that

1113
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: artsy release shot. I don't give half a ship about that.

1114
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: Let me see that giant brown shout held way out

1115
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: in front of the camera. Every time we did that

1116
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: so our legs would triple. This is a perfect I

1117
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: think this is a perfect expression. This is but that

1118
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: was problematic. This is the perfect expression of the problem.

1119
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: The problem is within hunting and fishing. It means something

1120
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: right within the clientele for your fishing guide service or

1121
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: any hunting guide service, because a lot of times I've

1122
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: hunted with the guide and they've said, like, gripp and green, right,

1123
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: I need that for my poor folio. I'm like, well,

1124
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 1: I don't really do I'm not really into that. Really

1125
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: do that. They're like, no, no, no, do it for me.

1126
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: Like okay, fine, that's fine, just do whatever you want

1127
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: with it. But that's within our community. It gets more likes,

1128
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: it's more popular because it's a sign of success. To

1129
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: sign that you got what you came for, is to

1130
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: sign that your guide specifically knows what the hell he's doing.

1131
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that it means. Outside of

1132
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: our world. We've already discussed what it means. It doesn't

1133
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: mean those things. So now we're faced with the conundrum

1134
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: of the duality of meaning with these things. And so

1135
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: there's some people that lean into the hunting community's definition

1136
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: of a grip and grind that part of the duality,

1137
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: like it's about the lore of hunting and the history

1138
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: and our storytelling and our pride. We're not we're not

1139
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: shameful about hunting. Why can't we There's some people I'm

1140
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: in this camp that lean a little bit towards like

1141
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: there's too much damage going on. There's two there's just

1142
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: far too much damage that this causes for me to

1143
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: continue to do it and lean into the other, the

1144
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 1: hunter side of the coin. I have to lean into

1145
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: the negative side, which I hate to do. It's not

1146
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 1: in my personality to be like changing my behavior based

1147
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: on some people getting upset. But if I look at

1148
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: the tangible damage that's been done by these things, it's

1149
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: hard for me to When I weigh the tangible damage

1150
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: and I weigh what I get personally from sharing group

1151
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: and grins, I can give up what I get personally

1152
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: just in case somebody might want to use it to

1153
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: damage me or hunting in the future, But what will

1154
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: I think that's valid. I think there's also within the

1155
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: community a question that comes up with gripp and grains,

1156
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: and that's that's one that for me was the issue

1157
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: when I was running that that guide service and we're

1158
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: figuring out what images to put up, which is that

1159
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: I am a passionate believer that hunting and fishing is

1160
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: about far more than that moment where you successfully catch

1161
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: or kill or dominate or fill your tag or catch

1162
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 1: your fish or whatever it is that you're out to do,

1163
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: and that by creating a culture of media, and the

1164
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: media is very responsible for this where all we privilege

1165
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: is that big giant buck, of that big giant permit,

1166
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: or me standing there holding the huge stringer of fish.

1167
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: We are only focusing on that end goal, and we

1168
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: were encouraging a whole lot of people who just want

1169
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: to circumvent the process and get to that end result.

1170
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: And I think that is not the way that I,

1171
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: as a person in the media or as a guide,

1172
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: want to paint a picture of hunting and fishing. Yeah,

1173
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: but what about stuff where it's not big? What about

1174
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: like a twelve year old kid was his first four

1175
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: key buck, or someone would have squirrel? Is it like

1176
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: you like, this is a giant squirrel? No, what cares

1177
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: how big squirrels are. I'd say that's that's an outlier

1178
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 1: in a very different example, And that to me is

1179
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 1: poking fun of the genre of the grip and grin. Absolutely,

1180
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not. We took pictures of rabbits and

1181
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: squirrels before there anybody even brought up the fact that

1182
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: there was a problem with grip and grins. We didn't like.

1183
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: We weren't goofing on grip and grins, and we took

1184
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 1: pictures of squirrels and we were little kids, ten year

1185
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: fun grip and grins. But I think, okay, I think

1186
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: that if you have a ten year old kid holding

1187
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of squirrels or a limit of perch, he's

1188
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: grip and grin and he's as happy he could possibly

1189
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: gripping there. There's a there's a purity there that I

1190
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: will respect. But I don't think that you can make

1191
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: a comparison to that of the guy holding up his

1192
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 1: big giant permit being likeparing it. I'm saying that you're

1193
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 1: saying that grip and grins are this thing meant to

1194
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 1: talk about the biggest, the biggest and the best. But

1195
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 1: that's only a small fraction of grip and grins. We

1196
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: took a grip and grin the r day a yearling antelope. Yep,

1197
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: it was I I wasn't being like this despite all appearances,

1198
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: is a giant. Okay, two things. One, yes, that can happen,

1199
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: But I still think that that privileges the moment at

1200
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: the very end of a long process and only carves

1201
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: that out as the thing that we're paying attention to do.

1202
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: But the other pieces that when we're talking about media

1203
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: and when you look on social media, you look at

1204
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: magazine covers, do you say it's only a small slice

1205
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: that are the big giants. I would say that in

1206
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: media it is the vast majority. You're right. Magazine cover. Sure,

1207
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: people don't put dinker antilope magazine, and they generally don't

1208
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: put it on their Instagram account either. Sometimes they do,

1209
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: but in general, if we're looking across the board of

1210
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: the people who are putting up pictures themselves on social

1211
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: media and want to get attention about it, no, usually

1212
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: they put up dinkers. Like when you put up a dinker,

1213
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: you gotta have a sort of thing that kind of

1214
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: explains why it's a danker, exactly just proud to have, yeah,

1215
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:40,959
Speaker 1: thinking they're gonna a comment about it being a dinker

1216
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: that had them off at the past. That's one thing

1217
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: that happens though, when you kill a dinky animal, right

1218
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: when you know that, Like, if you're trying to tell

1219
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: people you're a good hunter, you're trying to be like,

1220
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: look how successful I was. If you share a photo

1221
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: of forky Mulde or spike buck, you then feel like

1222
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: you have to explain how that came to me. You're

1223
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: not like you got filled my tag, You're like you

1224
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 1: fill my tag. It's been a tough season and my

1225
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: son really wanted me to shoot this, and I don't

1226
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 1: have any hamburger. It's gonna be really deliciously that I

1227
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: had to put. Yeah, that's not your You gotta know,

1228
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: you gotta ask you, solf. You gotta ask yourself why

1229
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 1: why is it that you have to couch those things?

1230
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: And the reason I think is because those grip and

1231
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: guns are meant to signify success, and what is success

1232
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: a big animal? And so why is the epitome of

1233
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: a grip and a big animal to cover? Is because

1234
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: all the things I just said leading to the end game.

1235
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 1: And so within the hunting community, this is a problem

1236
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 1: because that it is almost in essence, doing what the

1237
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: anti hunter wants it to do. It is pulling forward

1238
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: the feelings of like, we just want the biggest thing,

1239
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: even if that's not really what you're after. It's pulling

1240
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: it out, it's taking it. That's what eyeballs. But in

1241
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 1: what other cultural battle does one side sort of capitulate

1242
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 1: in order to like temper the criticisms of the opposing side.

1243
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 1: Meaning let's say your whole life is that you're like

1244
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: an abortion abortion rights advocate. Do the really diehard abortion

1245
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: rights advocates end up saying, you know what, you're right,

1246
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm giving up on taxpayer funded abortions and later term

1247
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: abortions because that just pisces people off. Do people like

1248
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: staunch Second Amendment supporters they're not like I believe personally

1249
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: um in the right to own semi automatic firearms. But

1250
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 1: that does pierce people off. So I will stop saying

1251
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 1: that and I'll just give in. No one else in

1252
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 1: any other social battle is doing this. Maybe they're wrong,

1253
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 1: Like the slippery do you think that they're gonna go away?

1254
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 1: Do you think that you're gonna say to to to

1255
01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: like you know what, grip and grins they really do

1256
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: piss anti hunters off, and they turned public perception and

1257
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 1: then for a year no one puts up a grip

1258
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: and grin. And also we realized that like everyone's now

1259
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 1: totally cool with hunting. Hell no, absolutely not hell no.

1260
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: So it's just like, but what, what what might happen?

1261
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 1: We might find a better fewer controversies would be fomented

1262
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 1: and enthusiasms and the fun would be dampened, so we

1263
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 1: would live in a generally more neutered world. I I

1264
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: feel that when I look at this, and I say,

1265
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: I look at it in a in a realistic sense.

1266
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 1: For me, I'm not gonna like I've made a mistake

1267
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:48,640
Speaker 1: in the past, but like, hey, maybe if everybody just

1268
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: doesn't do it, if you do whatever you want, I

1269
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: don't care as long as you can stop and say

1270
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: why are you doing it? What are you doing it for?

1271
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: What's the end result? Because we say at the same

1272
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: size of our mouth, we say, like, you need to

1273
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: be conservationist, you need to spend money, you need to

1274
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 1: care about the future of hunting. This is part of that.

1275
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: So we can't Also we can't say that and then

1276
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: also say don't worry about this, do whatever you want,

1277
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: screw the anties. We can't say both those things at

1278
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 1: the same time. We've got to find a middle ground

1279
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,759
Speaker 1: where we can say, like, care about the future of hunting,

1280
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: get more people to do it, speak about it in

1281
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 1: an intelligent way, tell your story in a way that matters.

1282
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: Do all those things. But just know that the head

1283
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: of the snake is this type of photo for whatever

1284
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 1: fucking reason, I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.

1285
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: So what are we gonna do with that? First? My

1286
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: personal feeling is just my own personal feelings that if

1287
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 1: I can just get rid of that, I can focus

1288
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: on other things that I can do to help hunting

1289
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: move forward. I can just take a picture of the meat,

1290
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 1: take picture of the head, take a picture whatever. Just

1291
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 1: eliminate that. It's annoying to me. It's annoying to have

1292
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 1: to deal with it, So I just eliminate it and

1293
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 1: move forward with like all the other storylines that are

1294
01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,560
Speaker 1: important to hunting, and leave this one behind because it

1295
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 1: is fraud. However, for I have whatever bullshit reasons, it

1296
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: is fraught with peril when he gets shared. We got

1297
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 1: an email from someone some time ago pointing out how

1298
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 1: his wife felt that photos of raw meat was just

1299
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: completely distasteful. Yep, she interesting what the point of it was?

1300
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 1: She thought it was people trying to girls people out. Yea.

1301
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 1: If she u if she works for like the New

1302
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: York Times and writes a story and then it gets

1303
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: picked up on CBS and then they shut down elephant

1304
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: hunting and fucking Zimbabwe, then maybe I don't think she

1305
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: did that gets elevated to that. There's always like a

1306
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: guy down the road, right, there's always I just think,

1307
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: but I just think. I'm sorry. I apologize for all

1308
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 1: anecdotal that was. It's it's we have to elevate this

1309
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: to some version of what we always talked about. You

1310
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 1: talk about it, you talk about it. I talked about

1311
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 1: it like it's it's part of the lexicon of hunting

1312
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 1: and fishing. To want to promote it. Remember I gave

1313
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: life advice earlier. Yeah, I remember about the minute you

1314
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 1: share an image, ask yourself, am I comfortable with this

1315
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: image being distributed? Don't know you said the minute you

1316
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: take an image and don't erase it? No? Then I clarified,

1317
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: fair enough, fair enough because because you know, I mean right,

1318
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: like I take. But I think your initial points. I've

1319
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 1: had pictures of my kids, like I've had pictures whatever,

1320
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: Like you know, my kids are little teeny kids, and

1321
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:25,680
Speaker 1: I had a picture of all taking a bath together. Um,

1322
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: if I had sent that around to a bunch of folks, right,

1323
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:34,000
Speaker 1: I would have been in violation of my own rules.

1324
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: So I want to clarify that, Yes, I think you

1325
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: can have a photo on your phone that you're not sharing.

1326
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 1: But but I wouldn't say life advice, never have a

1327
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 1: never take a photo that you're not comfortable with being distributed.

1328
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: I would say, never share an image that you're not

1329
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: comfortable with it getting out in any form. In that

1330
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: life advice, like life advice to a hunter, I would say,

1331
01:13:55,160 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: when um, when putting up grip and grin images, ask yourself,

1332
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 1: what is my goal in sharing? This? Is my goal

1333
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: in sharing this to uh prod, to incite anger, to

1334
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 1: stick it to them, to show them their hypocrisies. Or

1335
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: is it that I'm I'm I'm sharing a um an

1336
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: emblem of something I care about, and it's like something

1337
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: that means something to me personally, and I feel that

1338
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 1: this is like putting my best foot forward, or is

1339
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: it like this all show them those But it's like yes,

1340
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:53,560
Speaker 1: also a little bit like understand unintended consequences, understand the

1341
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 1: cultural state, of being like where we are and what

1342
01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 1: these things mean, and just understand that this this is

1343
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: now for it. Unfortunately, in my opinion, this is now

1344
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:09,560
Speaker 1: a twisted up symbol. It's now twisted up symbol, and

1345
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 1: just you have to understand that. And for the folks

1346
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 1: that pushed back on these types of things with like

1347
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 1: we should be able to do whatever we want to do.

1348
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:22,719
Speaker 1: I guess I agree. I'm not. I very staunchly feel

1349
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 1: socially conservative, like in a way that I've I'm not

1350
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 1: going to change what I believe because a couple of

1351
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: people don't like it. But in this case, there it

1352
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: is not that anymore, unfortunately, and it's just unfortunate that's

1353
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 1: the case, but that is the case. It's just not

1354
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 1: that some people just don't like it anymore. And like

1355
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: to your analogy earlier, if your intention is to just

1356
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: poke the bear and stoke the fire of people's anger,

1357
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: think about where that gets you in terms of your

1358
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 1: bigger goals. Is your goal to like create a broader

1359
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 1: gulf between those of us who see the value and

1360
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 1: honey and folks are against us. If so, I'd like

1361
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: to hear your argument for how that that's helpful. But

1362
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: the point I am curious for both of your perspectives,

1363
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 1: is I brought up this idea. For me, there's a

1364
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: split within the community that I think we should look

1365
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: at whether or not this is celebrating a moment of

1366
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: pure joy, the kid holding up his forky buck that

1367
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: you just got. I get that. That to me feels

1368
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:25,600
Speaker 1: pure or is it sort of us trying to signal like,

1369
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 1: look at me, I dominated this animal, I was so

1370
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: successful and showing some level of disrespect that is inherent

1371
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: in the gripping photo. I think that there's some of

1372
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 1: it that that this that will just be just has

1373
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: to be anecdotal. Some people think this, some people think

1374
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: that a little kid with a fourkey buck is different

1375
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 1: than the dude with a big, giant cheap All of

1376
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 1: that is true, and I think those those moments of

1377
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 1: like what, We're never really gonna find one reason that

1378
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: these things happen. There's a bunch of pitfalls though, one

1379
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: of them being that a lot of people have stopped

1380
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: thinking about or have have had occasion at least to

1381
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: stop thinking about the meaning of these images, and they're

1382
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:09,600
Speaker 1: just playing the game. Social media is a game. You

1383
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: get points for doing things. People like you get. It's

1384
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 1: like a three pointers more than a two pointer. A

1385
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 1: grip and grant is more than a picture of a backstrap. Yeah,

1386
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 1: but people were taking grip and grins and sharing them

1387
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 1: way before social media, right but social no, no, no,

1388
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 1: not at all, But I amplified them. All I'm saying

1389
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:31,599
Speaker 1: is like I would say, we're an unfortunate circumstance via

1390
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 1: social media, the cultural changes that we've had and the

1391
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,560
Speaker 1: situation where in it's unfortunate. I wish we could go

1392
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: back to when we when I had photo, I was

1393
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 1: more insulate. But now we're in this situation where some

1394
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: people are are playing the game to get and and

1395
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 1: we're in this situation all of us where we're in

1396
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: the professional media. The more followers we have, the more

1397
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:54,880
Speaker 1: valuable we are. And so they're playing the same game.

1398
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 1: They're like, well, if I just kill a lot of

1399
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:58,599
Speaker 1: big animals and share my grip and grants, it gets

1400
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,240
Speaker 1: a lot of likes to get more file of where

1401
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 1: companies might sponsor me. I might get money, I might

1402
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,519
Speaker 1: be famous, I might have a TV show, I might

1403
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 1: write a book. And they forget and chasing all those

1404
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: things and getting all the positive points from social media,

1405
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 1: that there's a bigger meaning to these things. These things

1406
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: have a larger cultural meaning. They have the ability to

1407
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:20,760
Speaker 1: shift things in ways no one understands, which they already have.

1408
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, they can stop

1409
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 1: hunting in places like British Columbia and African Zimbabwe and

1410
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 1: Scotland where that land the highest levels of government, they

1411
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 1: were gonna they were gonna rethink. Yeah, certain hunting laws

1412
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 1: based on those grips. But those grips. One of those grips,

1413
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 1: the early grip. There's nothing wrong with it. No, the

1414
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:50,000
Speaker 1: early grip. Just the Scotland hunter. Um. The woman had

1415
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 1: got in trouble for the dildo image. Her initially got

1416
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of trouble just her to just hearing to go.

1417
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 1: But there was things about it where they this gets

1418
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 1: really kind of weird. Um, she was like the traditionally

1419
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:09,040
Speaker 1: hunting these little outfits. I came out with the column

1420
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: special little outfits. What's the word I'm looking for. I

1421
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: hope it's special little outfit because that would be in Scotland.

1422
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:20,280
Speaker 1: Kial a little outfit kilt. No, it's a little suit

1423
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,839
Speaker 1: you wear like a little wool suit. Breeches Nick tweets

1424
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:29,320
Speaker 1: like tweet tweet, you get dressed up in a little suit, yeah,

1425
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 1: to start dressed out a little part if you get

1426
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 1: if you dig into this case, part of the gripe

1427
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:43,120
Speaker 1: was there was a gripe with she had like camel on, yeah,

1428
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 1: and she had her rifle accessorized in a way that

1429
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:51,760
Speaker 1: to the Scottish mind made it feel militaristic, even though

1430
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:53,600
Speaker 1: I think it was a bolt action rifle, but it

1431
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 1: had like trappings of tactical something or another. And some

1432
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 1: of the early thing was why is she dressed up

1433
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: like that in this place to red traditionally hunting little

1434
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:09,960
Speaker 1: get ups because people have been hunting on a sheep

1435
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,639
Speaker 1: on that island for hundreds of years and there's guiding

1436
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 1: services out there. But it was that she was a Westerner,

1437
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 1: not not like she was. She's Canadian, I think, but

1438
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 1: she's like not from there, She's from this country that

1439
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,240
Speaker 1: seems a lot like America. She's got camo get up on,

1440
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 1: she's got like a bipod. It looks kind of military. Um.

1441
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 1: And then oh and she has other pictures where there's

1442
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 1: a dildo and it tied something together in a way

1443
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: that you could go online and book trips to that

1444
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 1: outfit and go. But that person dressed that way, I

1445
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 1: don't know, like you know everything about it, the makeup, everything.

1446
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 1: It just pissed people off. And then they're like, we're

1447
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: gonna read We're gonna take a care look at our

1448
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: hunting rules knowing that this is going on, like knowing

1449
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: that this is going on, That's what I took from

1450
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 1: that too. From that thing, I read an article on

1451
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 1: Fox News that was like, quoting some of the government officials,

1452
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,879
Speaker 1: we were unaware that this was going on. Is such bullshit,

1453
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,599
Speaker 1: so that they've been guiding out there for hundreds of years.

1454
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 1: But that's the situation. Unfortunately, this part of that's the

1455
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,560
Speaker 1: situation where we are. It was like, oh man, what what?

1456
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 1: I was aware of the scandal on on Instagram and

1457
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: everybody was follow up. I did not hear about this

1458
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: follow up that it did it in fact go to

1459
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 1: changing Dude, the Camo bipod photo or whatever. That was

1460
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: like the Mullet report and this is like and then

1461
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: the Ukraine. It was like two totally separate parts of

1462
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:50,479
Speaker 1: the same story. Really, so yeah, again, I only I

1463
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 1: only saw the dildo photos and all that blowback on

1464
01:21:54,280 --> 01:22:01,799
Speaker 1: social the main hot water that the government like reinvestigating

1465
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 1: and getting to the bottom of what's going on on

1466
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:08,799
Speaker 1: this sheet hunting island. That was just from a blonde girl.

1467
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: And I guarantee if it was some dude who works

1468
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: in like the heating and cooling industry from Texas, wouldn't

1469
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 1: happen some young girl. Oh tactical. Yeah. I was like,

1470
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: people were like, what my wrong band, Well, there's so

1471
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm reading some stuff here now, like you're right. Scottish

1472
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 1: Parliament weighed in on it and some of them Nicolas

1473
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 1: Sturgeon remember of the Parliament's it's just totally understandable why

1474
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: of these images from islay of dead animals being held

1475
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: up his trophies is so upsetting an offensive to people.

1476
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,439
Speaker 1: Scottish government review the current situation, consider where the changes

1477
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:46,519
Speaker 1: to the law are required. That's enough for me now

1478
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 1: point being made. This is the first two group and

1479
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 1: grounds that were shared were as Germaine and normal as

1480
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 1: anything you might see like that, like you said, as

1481
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 1: as the breaking came, the wind swept cape and the

1482
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 1: other one she's taking a photo of a guy with

1483
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 1: land feature. Yeah, like it's beautiful. So before any of

1484
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 1: the dildo like you almost gonna raise that people already pissed.

1485
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 1: Scottish governy is reviewing a practice that has been going

1486
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:17,400
Speaker 1: on for decades because of a grip and because of

1487
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 1: a grip and grin, Who cares if it was just

1488
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: a blond lady review happened because of the wildly distributed

1489
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 1: because of a coldly distributed group of grin. There had

1490
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 1: been plenty of what do you call like if you

1491
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: go into archive and type in Islay Island hunting, there

1492
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:37,360
Speaker 1: are millions of grip of grins where they got those

1493
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:41,760
Speaker 1: little get ups on those goofy little get ups. I've

1494
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:44,920
Speaker 1: had one of those get ups on how did you

1495
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 1: feel a hunting snow? On one of the little deals. Man, listen,

1496
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 1: this all is the This will remain a debate because,

1497
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, you can either lean into like

1498
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 1: hey man, this is harming it. They like they're reviewing,

1499
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 1: they're reviewing the laws on a Scottish island because a

1500
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 1: blond lady went there and shot a goat. Remove the

1501
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,680
Speaker 1: dil though thing. That's what they're doing. But that is

1502
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: a react, like that's what got they were doing. They

1503
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 1: were doing. Thew that was was a follow up that

1504
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 1: was the question. No, it was like, oh, by the way,

1505
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,560
Speaker 1: anyone who had any doubt about this person was that

1506
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 1: was a fallow. Okay, that's checking this out different. This

1507
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 1: will put the rest any conversation about what kind of

1508
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 1: individuals were talking about here. It yep. It was like

1509
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 1: if I started with a pretty standard I kill you,

1510
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 1: and it's like maybe we were in a fight, Like

1511
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:47,400
Speaker 1: people like, I don't know, maybe they're in a fight.

1512
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 1: And then they go to my house to investigate, and

1513
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: I got a hundred dead people in my house, right,

1514
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 1: helpless people. They're like, see this is that's what he's

1515
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 1: really fight my ass. He just kills He's a serial killer.

1516
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 1: Told you no inhibitions. Hey, listen, I think this is

1517
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: what will continue to be the conversation. Man, like this happened.

1518
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: This person shared a photo of them hunting, and all

1519
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:19,840
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the Scottish Parliament is looking into the

1520
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:24,879
Speaker 1: hunting laws. That happened, and I understand doesn't happen in politics,

1521
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 1: doesn't like like people tend to generally stick to their guns.

1522
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: Not many people are like okay, but and make concessions. Okay,

1523
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:39,680
Speaker 1: over time, that's all I'll say. Over time gripp and

1524
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: grins have Let's say, of the last thirty years, grip

1525
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: and grins have always grip and grins of goats on

1526
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 1: this island have been present over the last thirty years.

1527
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 1: Can we agree on that, Like, I don't know if

1528
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:52,680
Speaker 1: that's true or not. There's no way it's not true

1529
01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 1: because they're running a business guiding. You have the ship

1530
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:01,240
Speaker 1: that you get your Let's just let's just shorten it

1531
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: to the last based on the law of miles, that

1532
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 1: outfitting group grip and grins, so over the last we'll

1533
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 1: just give it twenty years. These photos have existed Somewhere

1534
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:15,920
Speaker 1: in that span of time, social media was invented, it

1535
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:21,000
Speaker 1: became popular. Now, our culture changed immensely during that time.

1536
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: The way we think about things and share ideas and

1537
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 1: communicate with each other changed immensely in those years. Through

1538
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 1: those years, the consistent thing was gripping grins. The inconsistent

1539
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 1: or ever changing thing was our culture and the way

1540
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,679
Speaker 1: we see that image of the way we see hunters

1541
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: and the way we see hunting that has changed. Gripping

1542
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 1: grins are consistent. At some point, the changing culture and

1543
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 1: the consistent gripp agrin smacked together with a lady and

1544
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: a goat on the island and what happens or a

1545
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,679
Speaker 1: lady it's all see, this is where this conversation starts

1546
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 1: to get the rich. It's often ladies. People hate to

1547
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 1: see a woman with a dead animal, the woman with

1548
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 1: the draft, the woman with the zebra. People don't because

1549
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:12,840
Speaker 1: they're like, if it's gone so far that women, the

1550
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:18,680
Speaker 1: gentlest things on the planet, the most peace loving creatures,

1551
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 1: to you know, they've taken to dealing death. We have

1552
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:25,680
Speaker 1: poisoned our culture to the point where women will kill

1553
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:29,600
Speaker 1: and nothing worse than a young woman. Then people are like,

1554
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:32,840
Speaker 1: this has to stop, We must stop. I didn't mind

1555
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:36,840
Speaker 1: when those old white dudes, but young women know because

1556
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:40,719
Speaker 1: that doesn't fit our stereotype. And that's the only way anyway.

1557
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:44,240
Speaker 1: The But I do you agree with what I'm saying?

1558
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:46,640
Speaker 1: I total agree with what you're saying, and in not

1559
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,439
Speaker 1: to chip away at my own perspective here at my

1560
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 1: own point. But I have evolved, of course I haven't. No,

1561
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:01,680
Speaker 1: not in the last none the least over time. I

1562
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,559
Speaker 1: have evolved. The types of grip and grins did I take?

1563
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 1: When I was a fur trapper, there was like a

1564
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: way to take trapping grip and grins. Um. I wouldn't

1565
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 1: do that now. Uh, the risk of provocation for the

1566
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 1: pictures we were taken, The risk of provocation is so

1567
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:25,879
Speaker 1: high now that when I gambled it out, not gambled

1568
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 1: it out, evaluated it whatever, and like prode and conduit,

1569
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 1: I'd be like, dude, the cons outweigh the pros. Cons

1570
01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: outweigh the pros. So I am always like looking at

1571
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 1: this and and and and change. What I'm doing. What

1572
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to do is I'm trying not to

1573
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 1: get way out ahead. I'm trying not to like retreat

1574
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 1: before the bad guys even show up. I was gonna say,

1575
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 1: like my the final statement I can say about this

1576
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 1: is I think we're all, whether we know it or not,

1577
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: a justing our own activities based on shifting cultural shifting cultures.

1578
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:06,840
Speaker 1: Like we're all like, hey, I I used to do this.

1579
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do this. I used to do that. I

1580
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't do that. Now we're all shifting the way that

1581
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 1: we talk and speak based on what's acceptable now that

1582
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:16,599
Speaker 1: that's that's so prevalent in our culture now in good

1583
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:19,400
Speaker 1: ways and bad me too. My wife have had very

1584
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:23,560
Speaker 1: spirited debates about whether or not we're gonna spank not

1585
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:30,519
Speaker 1: each other, talking about to the children, not yeah, but

1586
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: our kids and having kids, we asked ourselves, you know,

1587
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 1: like thing that people just used to be just I

1588
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,240
Speaker 1: don't think people. I don't think like my mom and

1589
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:40,760
Speaker 1: dad didn't have like a debate about it. They just

1590
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 1: spanked everybody. So uh yeah, social so things change. I

1591
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 1: think this argument could be boiled down to this. I

1592
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:50,680
Speaker 1: am taking I am going ahead and saving myself the

1593
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,600
Speaker 1: trouble and taking this to its logical conclusion and not

1594
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 1: doing a grip and grins. You are holding out hope

1595
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 1: that it never has to be that and we can

1596
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,800
Speaker 1: find some other ways. You're running get out to the end.

1597
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm just being like, it's not too far away if

1598
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:06,080
Speaker 1: I just go ahead, and like we're already putting sensitive

1599
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: filters over pictures of meat and dead animals. The logical

1600
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: ten years from now conclusion is that they might just

1601
01:30:13,479 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 1: ban hunting from social media altogether. But I fear that

1602
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 1: there's like the risk of I'm not because I am.

1603
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 1: I am sharing hunting every day all the time, and

1604
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 1: am I hearing you correctly and saying that you are

1605
01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 1: drawing a line of saying. You are making a claim

1606
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 1: that you will never do a gripping grant I have

1607
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 1: done with grip because that would be foolish. Exactly if

1608
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:44,719
Speaker 1: you got something real big changed my mind, I han't

1609
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:46,360
Speaker 1: gonna know. How are they gonna know who killed? If

1610
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm not sitting behind I can't show them picture of

1611
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 1: my tag. That'd be stupid. But but but it's huge guy,

1612
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 1: But I'm not. I'm not. I don't want to be

1613
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:02,880
Speaker 1: the douche in hunting camps. It's like I will not

1614
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 1: take a picture without animal exactly exactly. I'm not that guy.

1615
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:08,640
Speaker 1: What the guy I am saying is like, I'm not

1616
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 1: going to go out there and be like this has

1617
01:31:10,560 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: to be part it used to be when I was

1618
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 1: coming up, has to be part of the experience. Like

1619
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:18,600
Speaker 1: if you didn't take your gripping grin, it wasn't really documented.

1620
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,960
Speaker 1: Picture didn't happen. Picture didn't happen. Right now, when I

1621
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 1: go out I resist it. Yeah, and I I'm actually

1622
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: with you on that. I'm like, I want to because

1623
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 1: I want to go hard and fast. I will not.

1624
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm not drawing that line of sand, which is why

1625
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:36,200
Speaker 1: I had to ask that question, I would not say,

1626
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: like no either, no more. If somebody said, hey, i'll

1627
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 1: give you hunter bucks, take give us, give me that

1628
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:49,600
Speaker 1: yearly antelope bucks. Give me that hunter Bucks. I'll take it,

1629
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:53,640
Speaker 1: but I take a few of us. It's such a

1630
01:31:53,720 --> 01:32:00,519
Speaker 1: thinly that's a lot of money these days. Like, but

1631
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:03,400
Speaker 1: I that my conviction is around like the thoughtfulness around

1632
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:06,040
Speaker 1: the image, and so I resist doing it for any

1633
01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 1: other reason than like, oh it's it's hunter Bucks, or

1634
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:10,639
Speaker 1: it tells the story a little bit better or whatever.

1635
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:13,800
Speaker 1: I just resisted being a like a stepping a step

1636
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 1: in the process, like I killed it. I spend an

1637
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:17,760
Speaker 1: hour taking images of it, then I cut it up

1638
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: being obligatory. Yeah, I just resist that, and I'm not

1639
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 1: I'll probably do it again, I bet, and it's and

1640
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:26,560
Speaker 1: I'll share with everybody be like hey, look I did it,

1641
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 1: and everybody like you for telling me not to do it.

1642
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:32,400
Speaker 1: It's fine, that's all fine with me. I just this conversation.

1643
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 1: It leads to people thinking about it. That's the only

1644
01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 1: thing that we could ever do. Like it leads to

1645
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 1: people say, hmm, what's the purpose of this, Why am

1646
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:41,320
Speaker 1: I doing it? What's it gonna mean? Could it lead

1647
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 1: to you know, no more grizzly bear hunting in Montana.

1648
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:47,200
Speaker 1: We other than that, no more grizzly bear hunting in

1649
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 1: British Columbia. Could it lead to that? Probably not, But

1650
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:53,439
Speaker 1: if I do it a certain way, it could lead

1651
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:55,920
Speaker 1: to something negative, you know, especially those of us that

1652
01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:59,320
Speaker 1: have you know, careers quote unquote. And it's in this injury.

1653
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:01,680
Speaker 1: So that's just my stance on it. But I think

1654
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 1: that probably is to your point taking it to its

1655
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 1: logical conclusion and also saving myself the guff and like

1656
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 1: just saying it's not it's not that important to me.

1657
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:11,760
Speaker 1: I don't really care about it, So I'm just not

1658
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:14,240
Speaker 1: going to do it because there is some world where

1659
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 1: it could turn into something that's not it's not. Yeah, yes, yeah,

1660
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:23,080
Speaker 1: It's almost like the opposite of snowflake is um for me,

1661
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 1: because I'm just like, I would rather not deal with it.

1662
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 1: Mm hm. So I'm just gonna go ahead and move on. Uh.

1663
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:30,600
Speaker 1: One thing I thought about the other day, I was

1664
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 1: conversed with someone on social media about grips and um,

1665
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:38,640
Speaker 1: you know, you get like, why did you take a

1666
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:40,840
Speaker 1: picture of it like that? And I'm because I was

1667
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 1: really happy that I got it. If I wasn't happy

1668
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 1: that I got it, I wouldn't shot it. I'm sad

1669
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:50,599
Speaker 1: I feel, Yeah, I would have been like, yeah, I'm

1670
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:52,680
Speaker 1: not gonna shoot. I mean the sad group of is

1671
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,360
Speaker 1: only a reaction to It's just part of this whole.

1672
01:33:57,400 --> 01:33:59,720
Speaker 1: In my evolution away from grim and grins, I was like, well,

1673
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 1: while struggling with the gripp and group, I was like, well,

1674
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:06,080
Speaker 1: what what I want to still take because I want

1675
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 1: people to know I killed it, but it was kind

1676
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:10,519
Speaker 1: of but I want to seem sad about So then

1677
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: I took like ten or twelve douche images of me,

1678
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 1: like touching a bear and stupid things like that, and

1679
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:16,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's done. I don't want to do that.

1680
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:19,519
Speaker 1: Maybe I just I don't have to worry about whether

1681
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 1: to do it or not. I just won't do it

1682
01:34:21,320 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 1: at all, so I can get on with what I

1683
01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:25,120
Speaker 1: like to do, which is hunting, and not worry about them.

1684
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 1: And then I'll take pictures of the gut pile and

1685
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:29,599
Speaker 1: of the dead animal. Use that's not offensive to anyone. Yeah,

1686
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:34,639
Speaker 1: I got piled nobody sensitive image Phil phil Phill the engineer, Yeah,

1687
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:38,560
Speaker 1: close this out, Phil, with what like, what would you do.

1688
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:40,960
Speaker 1: Let's say there are yeah you got you got a

1689
01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:44,040
Speaker 1: big fish, or you shot yourself a real nice deer.

1690
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:47,639
Speaker 1: What do you do? I think now, I'd say, well,

1691
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:52,040
Speaker 1: before I became kind of surrounded by people like you guys,

1692
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 1: I yeah, I I considered gripping grins like mostly kind

1693
01:34:57,120 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 1: of tacky, you know, like from from like it is

1694
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 1: complete outside yeah, where I wasn't offended by them. It

1695
01:35:06,160 --> 01:35:08,720
Speaker 1: didn't bring me to a point of anger, but like,

1696
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 1: uh yeah, and I guess I hadn't really thought about

1697
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:14,400
Speaker 1: it until I started working here about why I felt

1698
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 1: that way? Is that why you won't put up a

1699
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:18,000
Speaker 1: grip of yourself up in the studio here? No, I

1700
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 1: don't have one, and I've caught like, I have never

1701
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 1: hunted big game, but I've caught several fish and not

1702
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:25,280
Speaker 1: one stead of a did anyone think to take a

1703
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 1: picture that's just like exactly it didn't happen? Then, no

1704
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:34,559
Speaker 1: one wants to hear your fish. But I'd say from

1705
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:37,439
Speaker 1: I'd say from an outside perspective, I think, is you guys,

1706
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:39,599
Speaker 1: one thing we haven't talked about. I think the kind

1707
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 1: of grip and grins that draw the most anger and

1708
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 1: ire from like a certain portion of the spectrum. Are

1709
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:49,760
Speaker 1: like the the ones that come out of Africa, of

1710
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 1: like CEOs of fortune companies wearing khakis in a big

1711
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:56,839
Speaker 1: hat and they're standing next to like a big, majestic

1712
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:59,760
Speaker 1: African ANIMs something that yeah, we didn't get into that

1713
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:04,479
Speaker 1: an animal that most people don't think of as a

1714
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:07,160
Speaker 1: game animal. And you're like, hey, that's the thing from

1715
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:12,000
Speaker 1: my mobile above my nursery crib and all the Disney

1716
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:17,320
Speaker 1: movies in the world. I gotta say that there is

1717
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:20,680
Speaker 1: no ceo. There's no ceo rich guy wearing a hat

1718
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:23,760
Speaker 1: taking a photo of a lion that doesn't understand what

1719
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:28,560
Speaker 1: that's gonna mean, Like, is there there's a certain awareness

1720
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:31,040
Speaker 1: So at this point in our culture, just doing that

1721
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 1: as poking the bear, Like if you're just like I'm

1722
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 1: I shot at the baz or Ibex and I'm I'm

1723
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:39,640
Speaker 1: in Pakistan and I'm going to share this out in

1724
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:43,519
Speaker 1: the world. Just doing that, just shooting you understand which animals.

1725
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:45,040
Speaker 1: I know that a grizzly bear, if I shot a

1726
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: grizzly bear, I would if I didn't share a group

1727
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:48,640
Speaker 1: and gread I know what that would be. If I

1728
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:52,000
Speaker 1: shot a Simmatore horn Arex in Texas and sat behind it.

1729
01:36:52,120 --> 01:36:54,040
Speaker 1: I know what that would be. I'm not foolish in

1730
01:36:54,080 --> 01:36:56,479
Speaker 1: the way that like, different animals need different things. When

1731
01:36:56,479 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 1: I got that big panda man, yeah, it was that

1732
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:05,960
Speaker 1: I did the very sad you hugged him. I did.

1733
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:09,800
Speaker 1: I kind of propped him up and and hugged him. Yeah,

1734
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:11,720
Speaker 1: because I was afraid of what people would think about

1735
01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:13,920
Speaker 1: what happened. That was heartwarming. Actually the way you did that,

1736
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:17,680
Speaker 1: Oh no, it was a very an went on the

1737
01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:21,160
Speaker 1: Ellen Show and I saw one tier. I think like

1738
01:37:21,200 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 1: he didn't want to mate anyways. All right, Phil, you

1739
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 1: are you good? I'm good. We figured out so where

1740
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:28,479
Speaker 1: you at right now? He just told us what you

1741
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 1: used to think. So now you love grips, your grip guy? Yeah, sure,

1742
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:41,400
Speaker 1: come on. It's hard because I've never I've never liked,

1743
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:44,560
Speaker 1: you know, caught or or hunted something and been like

1744
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:46,599
Speaker 1: so proud that I felt like I needed to take

1745
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:49,280
Speaker 1: a picture. So I have never been in your shoes before.

1746
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:51,840
Speaker 1: You felt no pride, didn't catch any Oh no, I

1747
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:55,320
Speaker 1: loved it, but it was for me. I didn't assumes

1748
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:56,840
Speaker 1: that the grip and grid is not for you, right,

1749
01:37:57,320 --> 01:37:59,200
Speaker 1: The point we're talking about earlier is that the initial

1750
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 1: grip and grind of the old school group and what

1751
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:03,639
Speaker 1: have you gonna call it, is to capture that moment

1752
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:06,600
Speaker 1: and that memory for your own edification. And we're and

1753
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:08,759
Speaker 1: we've also built a lot of anks with everyone listening

1754
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,160
Speaker 1: and saying like, no matter what you do, that photo

1755
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:17,120
Speaker 1: will make it to the internet. So Phil, you gotta

1756
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 1: end this man. You're the decider. Do we do grip

1757
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 1: and guns or not? Yeah? Alright, cool, Yep, that's it

1758
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:26,799
Speaker 1: and they're good. We're all good with that. Alright. Whiskey

1759
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:32,800
Speaker 1: and ethics Round one? Next up baiting baiting, baiting. Yeah,

1760
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 1: so the next not the next hunting collective like down

1761
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:39,640
Speaker 1: the road sometime we're gonna talk about bating. You want

1762
01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:42,960
Speaker 1: to see someone him and Hall? What are you do?

1763
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 1: That are you? You're in the middle of you? Could

1764
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 1: you do have corn? All? Right? Bye? I guess that's it.

1765
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:02,280
Speaker 1: That's all another episode in the books. Thank you to

1766
01:39:02,479 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 1: Stephen Ranella for talking about whiskey and ethics and gripping grants.

1767
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 1: That's a topic that a lot of people have banged

1768
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:15,000
Speaker 1: on me for for my opinions and um, and so

1769
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 1: why not dive right into it. So thank you for

1770
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,599
Speaker 1: listening to that. Before we go, Phil, we have something

1771
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:24,840
Speaker 1: we need to have, breaking news, breaking news out of

1772
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:29,600
Speaker 1: the th hc UH news desk. That's true. We we

1773
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 1: we put a bow on it, and then we're gonna

1774
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:35,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna loosen the bowl Berry Berry Kay Gilbert. We

1775
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 1: put a bowl earlier in the show on Barry Kay Gilbert.

1776
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:39,200
Speaker 1: We're gonna bring it back, and it's for an important reason.

1777
01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:44,680
Speaker 1: Barry rode in to our producer Karin Um after we

1778
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:49,680
Speaker 1: recorded the intro to this, and he was he was

1779
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:53,240
Speaker 1: not happy. So he expressed wish, he wish he had

1780
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 1: not come in for the interview, and he wasn't happy

1781
01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:59,639
Speaker 1: with Um, for example us inferring he was an anti

1782
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 1: hunter or comparing him to anti hunters. He wasn't happy

1783
01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:05,160
Speaker 1: about that. And listen, I get it. I get that

1784
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 1: we do an interview and then we do an opening

1785
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:09,839
Speaker 1: segment talking about the interview, so it can seem unfair

1786
01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:12,040
Speaker 1: to the interviewee that they don't get to be a

1787
01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:15,560
Speaker 1: part of the set up. So I get that. So

1788
01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:18,360
Speaker 1: my responsive Barity was like, hey, listen, I get it.

1789
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:21,160
Speaker 1: I didn't have any any going into that podcast. I

1790
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:25,400
Speaker 1: didn't have any uh, feeling that I needed to debate

1791
01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:27,559
Speaker 1: him or argue. I just wanted to have a good

1792
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:31,920
Speaker 1: conversation and learn um about his experiences. So I'm not

1793
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:35,439
Speaker 1: into there being any contention, even though there was. UM.

1794
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 1: So I figured the best way to do that was

1795
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 1: to offer him a chance to write something that I

1796
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:43,040
Speaker 1: could read here on the podcast, so he can get

1797
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:45,479
Speaker 1: his opinion out there one more time, and then Phil,

1798
01:40:46,360 --> 01:40:47,720
Speaker 1: we can really put a bow on it, like a

1799
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:51,080
Speaker 1: big bow. Yeah. Is there anything else we can do

1800
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:53,680
Speaker 1: to it to make it extra official? We'll put it

1801
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:56,719
Speaker 1: on a train, buy it a ticket, buy had a ticket,

1802
01:40:57,000 --> 01:41:00,360
Speaker 1: Put it on a train, on a train. I like it.

1803
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:04,000
Speaker 1: Like it. Um, I you know we've said this already,

1804
01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 1: but I just spent two or three days only talking

1805
01:41:07,040 --> 01:41:10,080
Speaker 1: about this interview in this guy, So I'm ready to

1806
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:11,880
Speaker 1: move on to something different. So but before we do,

1807
01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:14,880
Speaker 1: we're gonna read this. UM. I guess you'd call it

1808
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:18,960
Speaker 1: a statement for Barry Gilbert. Um. We're in regards two

1809
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 1: the podcast. In number eighty two, he says, I appreciate

1810
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:27,360
Speaker 1: media podcasts offer to correct some misinterpretations in my opinion

1811
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:31,000
Speaker 1: that went out my value mindset. Is not anti hunting

1812
01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:36,200
Speaker 1: or as an animal rights guy, nor ever was ethical.

1813
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:39,320
Speaker 1: Hunters have been the core and wave of wildlife survival,

1814
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:43,680
Speaker 1: conservation and management of our populations. That is what I

1815
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:47,400
Speaker 1: taught wildlife students in Utah. Many of my academic colleagues

1816
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:50,400
Speaker 1: were waterfowl hunters and big ugle and hunt ungland hunters,

1817
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 1: but no one that I knew aspired to hunt carnivores

1818
01:41:55,000 --> 01:42:00,479
Speaker 1: like grizzy bears. We get there, Phil were clear, I

1819
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:03,840
Speaker 1: think there's more. There's more. Uh So I want to

1820
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:07,160
Speaker 1: emphasize that I'm against hunting grizzlies in the Lower USA,

1821
01:42:07,760 --> 01:42:09,760
Speaker 1: no matter what Ben O'Brien and his collegn that media

1822
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:13,360
Speaker 1: to advocate with the North American model. I got heated

1823
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:17,080
Speaker 1: in the interview because Ben's almost super liberal attempt to

1824
01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 1: get us all together somehow. Frankly, I felt the dialogue

1825
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:25,600
Speaker 1: between these production majors of the site was quite condescending

1826
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:29,320
Speaker 1: towards my views. Listen to how jittery they were at

1827
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:33,599
Speaker 1: my unexpected views. Ben admitted to not being as prepared

1828
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:36,240
Speaker 1: on the topics I advanced, but it did not inhibit

1829
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:41,679
Speaker 1: his quote unquote something worth considering response to my long

1830
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:47,480
Speaker 1: experience both on the ground with grizzlies, but many scientific publications.

1831
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:51,200
Speaker 1: That's that's strangely worded, but that's how it's written. One

1832
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:53,280
Speaker 1: a bit more. Please read my book one of us

1833
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:57,759
Speaker 1: a Biologists, Walk among Bears, and look up Mountain Journal.

1834
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:03,439
Speaker 1: I love coming to Montana. Keep it wild, Barry. So

1835
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:07,680
Speaker 1: that is Barry's statement. We're gonna leave it just like that.

1836
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 1: I think I've said all I want to say on

1837
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:12,360
Speaker 1: the subject. I said it during the interview. I said

1838
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:14,680
Speaker 1: in the opening of this podcast. I just want to

1839
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:18,080
Speaker 1: give Barry a chance to say his peace for war,

1840
01:43:18,160 --> 01:43:19,880
Speaker 1: whatever it is. And we're gonna move on to the

1841
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:22,160
Speaker 1: next episode of The Hunting Collectors. We'll see you next week.

1842
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:29,599
Speaker 1: Because I can't go a week without doing right, oh

1843
01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 1: without rude, drut right, drinking in it. Don't sit in

1844
01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:58,880
Speaker 1: at the possible. It stops to row route being there again.

1845
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,560
Speaker 1: Hold on out, Russues, I'll tell me what is it

1846
01:44:02,720 --> 01:44:03,760
Speaker 1: that I should do.