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Speaker 1: If I had to diagnose Anakin, I actually think he

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Speaker 1: is a mental health disorder. I think he is a

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Speaker 1: borderline personality disorder.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome everybody.

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Speaker 3: Johnny Brody here, you're nonspector full on moderator for Potter Rebellion.

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Speaker 3: Here with the bonus episode that I've very much been

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Speaker 3: looking forward to. So we're just about to close out

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Speaker 3: the month of May. May, as you all know, is

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Speaker 3: AAPI Heritage month, so shouts to my fellow members at

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Speaker 3: the AAPI community Much Live Always, but May is also

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Speaker 3: a mental health awareness month. And even though the month

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Speaker 3: of May is ending, that doesn't mean the awareness has

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Speaker 3: the stuff. And like the Rebel Alliance, I have hope

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Speaker 3: that this episode conserve as a reminder to keep that

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Speaker 3: awareness going all year round. So today we're going to

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Speaker 3: be covering mental health themes in Star Wars, and believe me,

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Speaker 3: there are many. Anakin was known to say, this is

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Speaker 3: where the fun begins, and I'd like to think with

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Speaker 3: this bonus episode, this is where the healing begins. Now,

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Speaker 3: I'm a mental health advocate. I very much believe in

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Speaker 3: open discussions about mental health, and you open and honest discussions.

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Speaker 2: I believe in therapy.

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Speaker 3: I believe in working in myself, but I am not

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Speaker 3: a licensed credentialed expert in that field. However, our special

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Speaker 3: guest today is so joining me to break down Star

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Speaker 3: Wars mental health Tames today is at LMHC. That's licensed

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Speaker 3: Mental health counselor, Permanent Certified School Counselor, ABA therapist, ABA

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Speaker 3: being Applied Behavioral analysis and rehab Invocational counselor. This incredible

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Speaker 3: individual has combined all of that into her own private

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Speaker 3: practice where she works with people from all around the

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Speaker 3: world and today that will include galaxies from a long

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Speaker 3: time ago that are far far away. And not only that,

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Speaker 3: she also happens to be one of my favorite humans,

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Speaker 3: and I have no doubt that after this episode she's

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Speaker 3: going to be one of your favorites too. So please

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Speaker 3: welcome for the first of hopefully many Potter Rebellion appearances.

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Speaker 3: The very amazing, the very wonderful Sealy Bahart.

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Speaker 1: My gosh, that was like the nicest intro I've ever

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Speaker 1: gotten it for anything.

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Speaker 3: Ever, really think with everything about it was true. I

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Speaker 3: would think that's just how people introduce you all the time,

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Speaker 3: because here does you.

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Speaker 1: Well, they think they should want to just follow me

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Speaker 1: around from now on and you can just do all

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Speaker 1: my interests wherever I go, just walk into a room.

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Speaker 2: And do it.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, let's keep it very weird and do it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, you know me, you know here.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's probably why we became friends.

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Speaker 2: This is very true. So Celia, thank you for being here.

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Speaker 2: And I know we had.

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Speaker 3: Discussed this even when we had first gotten the show

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Speaker 3: onboarded with iHeart like last year, and this is one

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Speaker 3: of the first thing I said was, Hey, we're about

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Speaker 3: to do a Star Wars podcast with iHeartRadio, and I

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Speaker 3: want to bring you on to talk about mental health themes.

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Speaker 3: And you, as you often are, we're very generous and

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Speaker 3: said yes, let's do it. And now we're here. So

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Speaker 3: this has been a long time coming. Even though the

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Speaker 3: podcast only launched, you know, back in March, we've been

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Speaker 3: talking about this since like last like I think maybe

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Speaker 3: even last May or last October.

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Speaker 2: So it's almost been a year now.

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Speaker 1: Yep, Yep, totally. And I was so excited when you

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Speaker 1: asked me because, like you said, it's just flush with

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Speaker 1: so many mental health themes and it's just it's so interesting,

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Speaker 1: you know, and every time I rewatch any of them.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to take notes and like have

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Speaker 1: my DSM, you know, right near me, and like looking up, Well,

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Speaker 1: what disorder is this? You know, I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: diagnose the entire cast.

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Speaker 3: Well, but that said, and I don't know if this

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Speaker 3: was part of your training, but I do know what

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Speaker 3: some therapists that that is part of your training. You

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Speaker 3: watch film and television shows and kind of do like

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Speaker 3: your own diagnosis of the characters.

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Speaker 2: Was that part of your training?

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Speaker 1: We did not officially, but we definitely did that with

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Speaker 1: The Sopranos because the Sopranos was on when I was

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Speaker 1: in grad school. Shout out to my teacher, Debbie Maggots,

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Speaker 1: who would doctor Debbie. We would honestly like sit there

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Speaker 1: and take like episodes and analyze what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And not only would we analyze Tony, we would analyze

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Speaker 1: the therapy sessions that that doctor Malfie would give and

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Speaker 1: what you know, we thought was right or what was

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Speaker 1: you know, crossing a boundary and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, looking back, I've been doing a rewatch

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Speaker 3: Quinncidentally enough of the Sopranos because I haven't watched it

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Speaker 3: since it was on the air, and I was in

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Speaker 3: college at the time, and I had no idea I

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Speaker 3: was going to have a future in filmmaking and storytelling.

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Speaker 3: Rewatching it now and just understanding this is the kind

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Speaker 3: of television I was on in like the early two

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Speaker 3: thousands is pretty mind blowing. But also there the tendency

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Speaker 3: of showing therapists on screen. It is like they're the

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Speaker 3: problem solvers, they have all the answers. But to my knowledge,

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Speaker 3: and maybe JC can fact check us on this, and yes,

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Speaker 3: jac still is here. Everybody, to my knowledge, that's the

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Speaker 3: first time at least I ever saw a therapist talking

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Speaker 3: to another therapist and showing that they're not these perfect beings.

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Speaker 3: Because like, I love those episodes in season two when

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Speaker 3: Doctor Melthie's talking to her therapists and thinking about having

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Speaker 3: to talk to Tony and all this stuff, and Ted

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Speaker 3: Lasso did it recently, but rewatching like, oh wow, they

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Speaker 3: were doing this in the early two thousands. This is

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Speaker 3: pretty incredible, And I don't think a lot of us

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Speaker 3: got that message of how forward thinking that was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right, And I mean, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because in my program, you had to be in therapy

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Speaker 1: if you were becoming a therapist, and I say that

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Speaker 1: to most people who are going back to school, and like,

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Speaker 1: make sure you go at therapy, even if it's not

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Speaker 1: something that your program says that you should do, because

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Speaker 1: it's you do have to download. I mean, I have

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Speaker 1: a therapist, and yes, most of my sessions with my

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Speaker 1: therapist tends me like me being like oh my god,

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Speaker 1: like I have to, you know, purge out what I

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Speaker 1: heard all week, and also I want to check myself

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Speaker 1: and did I handle this right? And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: nice to have somebody else to talk to you about it.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, although she broke confidentiality a few times, and

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Speaker 1: in the Soprano, it's that, you know that dinner party scene.

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Speaker 1: I remember very clearly there's a dinner party scene that

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Speaker 1: happens at some point that they talk about it, and

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Speaker 1: they all know that Tony is her client, which nobody

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Speaker 1: should have known. So it was like it got a

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Speaker 1: little dicey at times in that show.

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Speaker 3: I do remember that that was in season one of it,

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Speaker 3: and she's having this family dinner and they're all kind

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Speaker 3: of like treeing it, like the elephant in the room.

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Speaker 3: I know exactly what you're talking about, and even Ted Lasso,

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Speaker 3: there was moment where because to my knowledge, this is

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Speaker 3: something that you probably shouldn't do into anyone out there,

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Speaker 3: maybe this and you can correct me to Celia if

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Speaker 3: I'm an if I'm incorrect here, but remember Sarah Nile's

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Speaker 3: character in ted Lasso, Doctor Sharon. Yeah, of course, there's

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Speaker 3: a scene where people are asking or like, hey, just

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Speaker 3: cash out the bar, like hey, what do you think

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Speaker 3: of this? And to my knowledge, technically you shouldn't do

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Speaker 3: that because for whatever reason, like because if you're not

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Speaker 3: her patient and all she's doing is going off with

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Speaker 3: this little tidbit you're giving at like a bar where

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Speaker 3: you may be inebriated, technically that person can sue doctor

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Speaker 3: Sharon if something led to like a wrong decision. So

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Speaker 3: you know, like, is that my correct in that, because

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Speaker 3: I've heard other mental health professionals tell me that you

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Speaker 3: got to be careful about if people come with you

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Speaker 3: at a party to not like diagnose them or let

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Speaker 3: them know like, hey, this isn't an official diagnosis, but

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Speaker 3: if you want to make an appointment, we can talk.

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Speaker 1: About exactly right, exactly that, and I do that all

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Speaker 1: the time. And also people will ask me, I mean God,

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Speaker 1: I'll be on like a date and they're like are

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Speaker 1: you Are you analyzing me right now? And I'm like no,

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Speaker 1: And then I think in my head and if I will,

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Speaker 1: and probably I am. I'm not.

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Speaker 2: I am now exactly I wasn't.

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Speaker 1: But thanks for that. Yeah, no you're not. It's true.

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Speaker 1: And people will always ask you things like that as

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Speaker 1: a therapist, and yes, that's the correct answer. It's like,

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Speaker 1: I can't really give you, you know, I don't work

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Speaker 1: with you. But if you want to, you know, shoot

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Speaker 1: me a text and have a session with me, that's

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Speaker 1: something totally different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're touching on so many really important points here

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Speaker 3: because I look at therapy as I think the most

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Speaker 3: important part of therapy to me is the other twenty

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Speaker 3: three hours, Like the hour you have with your therapists.

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Speaker 3: That's like to me, it's like you go to the Jimmy,

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Speaker 3: get your workout on with your trainer, But that's just

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Speaker 3: the request for your body to change. The real implementation

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Speaker 3: and the real change happens the other twenty three hours.

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Speaker 3: Using fitness as an analogy, you're nutrition in your sleep,

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Speaker 3: your recovery, that's what's actually going to lead to physical

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Speaker 3: changes in your body if you're on a fitness regimen,

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Speaker 3: and it's the same thing with our minds. We don't

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Speaker 3: view it that way because our minds aren't as tangible

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Speaker 3: as like building muscle. But that one hour with the therapist,

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Speaker 3: I look at it, Okay, this is where I'm workshopping,

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Speaker 3: this is where this is where I'm working the muscle.

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Speaker 3: This is where I'm making a request for Okay, what

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Speaker 3: kind of new information can I get? But the actual

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Speaker 3: implementation is going to happen the other twenty three hours

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Speaker 3: or the other six days, so you get to the

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Speaker 3: next week and then you get That's how you make

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Speaker 3: the progress in your session. So you're you're touching on

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Speaker 3: so many great things that I hope that people can

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Speaker 3: take the heart listen to this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I do too, And and you know, it's the

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Speaker 1: same as exercise, like you said, or actually even like

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Speaker 1: watching a TV show or reading a book. You got

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Speaker 1: to let things settle and sit with them. That's been

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest lesson for me in my own

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Speaker 1: therapy is to sit with things like I don't need

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Speaker 1: to react, and I think in this society, you know,

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Speaker 1: with everything at our fingertips and being able to comment

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Speaker 1: online and to send the text and you know all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. It's like nobody sits with things, and that's

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Speaker 1: where you end up with all this you know, outward

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Speaker 1: hate and rage and a lot of you know, ignorance

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Speaker 1: and intolerance and all that kind of stuff. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, back to even Anakin, like if

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Speaker 1: you just sat the same thing, you know, but he

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Speaker 1: but he he had other issues that make that not

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Speaker 1: easy for him to do.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, And we're going to get into that in

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Speaker 3: this episode and then but basically, what Celia is saying

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Speaker 3: is that the Jedi Council should have mental health protocols

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Speaker 3: because even the NBA and NFL and the MLB, all

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Speaker 3: the professional sports leagues, they all have mental health protocols now,

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Speaker 3: which those are in place seeing the nineties for someone

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Speaker 3: like a Michael Jordan or anyone who's in the forefront,

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Speaker 3: you know, who knows the difference it would have made.

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Speaker 3: I don't like the deal in hypotheticals too much, but

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Speaker 3: the fact that those protocols are in placed now is

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Speaker 3: huge because and because everyone's so much more exposed now

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Speaker 3: in the nineties, as you know, it's mainstream media now,

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Speaker 3: is it or newspapers, but now it's any places media.

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Speaker 2: Any place is paparazzi.

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Speaker 1: Oh and any place is trauma. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd have to go and like actually open a newspaper

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Speaker 1: or watch the news to see anything horrific. Now you

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Speaker 1: open up your phone and you don't know what you're

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Speaker 1: going to see, and it's if and people don't realize

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Speaker 1: that takes a toll on us. Right you're opening up

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Speaker 1: there's animal abuse, there's some sort of you know, bigotry

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Speaker 1: or war or you know these explicit things. And yes,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the time it says, you know on

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Speaker 1: your phone, like don't tap this if you don't want

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Speaker 1: to see it, but everybody taps it, and then you're

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Speaker 1: able to swipe it and see the next trauma and

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Speaker 1: the next trauma and the next trauma. That's what you're

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Speaker 1: feeding your brain all day. And that's I think a

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Speaker 1: really you know, it's a huge part of what's been

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Speaker 1: going on in our society is social media and just

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Speaker 1: having everything at our fingertips like this.

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Speaker 3: That is such a profound thing for you to say,

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Speaker 3: because I feel like because of that, whether we're consciously

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Speaker 3: thinking about or not. And I'm going to consciously think

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Speaker 3: about it now. It's almost like we have this anticipatory

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Speaker 3: trauma before we open our social media apps.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, you don't know what you're going to see and

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Speaker 1: you kind of do and you hope it's going to

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Speaker 1: be something great, you know, but it might be like

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Speaker 1: a you know, a kitten video or something fun like that,

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Speaker 1: a kid falling down. Those are always kind of funny, sure,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially when it's one of my kids, then

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Speaker 1: it's really funny. Or it just might be me, you know,

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Speaker 1: right exactly for my best friend Journey, but her and

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Speaker 1: I both had the ADHD brain, so we share that

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Speaker 1: in common.

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Speaker 2: That's also why her and I are buds.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she and I have discussed that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, our synergies definitely line up. But somehow we still

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Speaker 3: get stuff done, which is like the the you know,

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Speaker 3: fascinating thing about it.

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Speaker 2: Usually you get two ADHD people.

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Speaker 3: In a room, it's like, well, we're just gonna you know,

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Speaker 3: hyper focus on twenty different things.

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Speaker 2: But somehow we we bring it all back. It might

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Speaker 2: take us a little bit, but we will get there.

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Speaker 1: I know. It's HERD and my OCD and that's what

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Speaker 1: makes us a pretty good team. So I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: she's all over the place with these amazing ideas, and

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Speaker 1: I'm always like, rein it in Ran, come here. I

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Speaker 1: have to do the things because I get that, you know,

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in my own OCD. So yeah, I hear it.

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Speaker 2: We all have our quirks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I adore you both so much, and I'm

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Speaker 3: so thankful to her for ultimately leading for us connecting.

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Speaker 3: And you know this, it just makes me believe that

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Speaker 3: past lives are a real thing. I think the people

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Speaker 3: you that you really click with and become part of

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Speaker 3: your circle, you know, it's just if you if you

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Speaker 3: buy into Socrates theory or recollection. I'm like, I think

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Speaker 3: we're just uncovering what was there, uh, you know, in

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Speaker 3: terms of knowledge and in terms of friendships and this

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Speaker 3: sort of bonding. And certainly once I met Jody officially,

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Speaker 3: once I met you, I'm like, oh, like, I think

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Speaker 3: we just found each other in this life.

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Speaker 2: That's so, that's what it felt like.

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Speaker 1: I totally agree. And I remember that I met you,

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Speaker 1: and I guess we should say we're talking about Jody Sweeten, Yes,

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Speaker 1: who I famously once said, oh that girl that has

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Speaker 1: the unfortunate coincidence of having the same name as the.

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Speaker 3: Girl from All That's Right when you didn't realize that

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Speaker 3: she was actually the jo.

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Speaker 2: And shout out to Jody. We love Jody so much.

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Speaker 1: I love her so much. Yeah, she we menage other

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Speaker 1: at a comedy show of hers. Like that's what it

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Speaker 1: was as a family dinner, I want to say. And

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Speaker 1: I just remember I think she gave you a shout

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Speaker 1: out in the show. But I just remember like looking

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Speaker 1: up and you you were laughing so hard at something

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Speaker 1: that I also thought was like hilarious, but we were

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Speaker 1: like one of the only two people that caught it,

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Speaker 1: or maybe we're our sense of humors were just like

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Speaker 1: so weird that we were like a And I just

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Speaker 1: remember like eye contact and being like, oh, we should

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Speaker 1: be friends because whatever.

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Speaker 3: I think, I know what you're talking. I know that

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Speaker 3: you're talking about because I brought a few of my

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Speaker 3: friends there, yep. And my friend was telling some weird

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Speaker 3: story about her dad, and Mike Glazer was on that

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Speaker 3: panel with Jodi, and the two of them said something

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Speaker 3: really fun. I can't and they'll come back to me

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Speaker 3: probably after we've done recording, but I do remember that

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Speaker 3: new I did make anye contact.

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Speaker 2: I do remember that, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: I'm just remember being like, oh, he knows this is

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Speaker 1: like a wrong thing to laugh at, and he's also laughing.

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Speaker 1: The rest of the audience was like, wait is that funny?

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Speaker 1: Can I laugh at this? And we are both like

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Speaker 1: like what, Because you know, trauma's funny. Sometimes that's a

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Speaker 1: little bit.

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Speaker 3: This is true hashtag trauma is funny, brought to you

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Speaker 3: by pot of rebellion. And so let's give a So

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Speaker 3: what got you into the fields of work you're in

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Speaker 3: now as this really accomplished mental health profession?

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Speaker 2: Know who you had?

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Speaker 3: This sort of gecundo Bruce Lee philosophy if you have

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Speaker 3: all these different areas, but you combine them into something

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Speaker 3: that fits who you are and then can then retrofit

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Speaker 3: to who you're talking to.

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Speaker 2: So how did you get into this profession?

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Speaker 1: It's a really odd story. I honestly, I was kind

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Speaker 1: of always the kid that you know, people came and

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Speaker 1: talked to and told all their stuff too. And I

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Speaker 1: always liked helping people. But you know, then I decided

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be an actress slash rock star. So

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Speaker 1: I actually went to undergrad for theater and that panned

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Speaker 1: out real well and definitely money well spun, and I

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Speaker 1: moved to New York City eventually after I graduated and

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Speaker 1: I was working for Showtime. I worked for Sundance Channel

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Speaker 1: and Showtime Networks in the creative department for I think

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Speaker 1: like seven years total, I want to say. And I

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Speaker 1: happened to have jury duty one day and that day

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Speaker 1: was not eleven, And so where I If anyone knows

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Speaker 1: New York, you know, I was working at sixteen thirty

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Speaker 1: three Broadway. That was it still is, the Paramount Building

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Speaker 1: across from the Winter Garden Theater where Cats is now

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Speaker 1: and forever. And I was way downtown, so I was

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Speaker 1: in I mean, I was completely in range of the

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Speaker 1: towers coming down everything. And I got stuck on the

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Speaker 1: subway for forty five minutes when the first tower was hit.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't know that none of us knew what

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Speaker 1: was going on. It was just due to an earlier incident.

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Speaker 1: The train's going to stop and the last stop will

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Speaker 1: be blank. I can't remember what it was. And I

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Speaker 1: just remember thinking I'm going to be late. And I

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Speaker 1: booked all the way down to the courthouse, and when

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Speaker 1: I got there, the National Guard was there and they

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going on, because like any

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Speaker 1: New Yorker, I was walking with my head down and

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, what's going on? And he said,

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Speaker 1: the last thing we heard was that a plane has

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Speaker 1: struck the Pentagon, so you need to get out of

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Speaker 1: here as fast as possible. And I thought like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess they're just being cautious with federal buildings. And

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Speaker 1: I walked a little bit further the wrong way, by

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Speaker 1: the way, like toward the yeah, toward the trade towers,

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Speaker 1: and then there was a group of people in the

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Speaker 1: park listening to the radio, because that's what you did then,

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Speaker 1: and they were talking about how people were jumping out

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Speaker 1: out of the buildings, and I thought, well, and I stopped,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I'm just horrified, and I said, what's

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Speaker 1: going on? And they were like, look up. And then

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Speaker 1: a police officer came by on horseback actually and said,

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Speaker 1: you guys all have to get uptown as fast as possible. So,

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Speaker 1: to make a long term story short, I was able

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Speaker 1: to get away. I was really lucky. I found refuge

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Speaker 1: in a pizza place, and I was with two people

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Speaker 1: who should have been in the towers at that time

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Speaker 1: and were already starting to go through what I now

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Speaker 1: know is survivor's guilt. And after that, once I made

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Speaker 1: it home and I was safe, I went and started

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Speaker 1: volunteering with the Red Cross down there for a while,

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Speaker 1: and I would just talk to people and I just

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Speaker 1: sort of it didn't feel like my life had a

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Speaker 1: real purpose. In entertainment, I just didn't feel it anymore.

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Speaker 1: It felt silly. When you know, I was a boss

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Speaker 1: was freaking out about getting the interstitial of the new

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Speaker 1: you know, Marley Mattlin movie done. I was like, this

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like something people should be so freaked out about.

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Speaker 1: I want to do something that really helps people. And

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Speaker 1: so at first I thought I wanted to be a

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Speaker 1: school counselor. That's the permanent, certified school counselor stuff. But

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Speaker 1: I went back. I applied to Hunter because Hunter College

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Speaker 1: has a really broad counseling department and degree, and then

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Speaker 1: you can add in the things that you want. And

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Speaker 1: so I thought, well, I'm just gonna I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get a counseling degree, and I'm going to become a therapist,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to get and I want to work

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Speaker 1: in a school. I didn't end up working in a school.

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Speaker 1: I did end up working in upstate New York with

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Speaker 1: at risk kids in a federal program called WEA, and

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Speaker 1: I worked for Workforce New York, which was really fascinating

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Speaker 1: and I learned a lot, and sometimes it was really

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Speaker 1: hard lessons, especially with at risk kids. But I just

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Speaker 1: I love helping.

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Speaker 2: I just do.

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Speaker 1: I love helping people, Like I mean, people say to

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Speaker 1: me all the time, I don't know how you listen

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Speaker 1: to what you listen to every day, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: it's an honor. I mean, really it is. It's an honor.

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Speaker 1: People are trusting me with their deepest, darkest fears, you know, secrets, traumas,

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Speaker 1: things that have happened to them that I can't wrap

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Speaker 1: my own head around. And I think it is something

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Speaker 1: I wish everyone could sort of go through the training,

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Speaker 1: especially just to gain empathy for other people's situations. You know,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to have experienced it to feel for

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Speaker 1: other people. And so I'm just really grateful that I

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Speaker 1: got to do that. And then I moved my family

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Speaker 1: across country to California to hopefully start my practice, which

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Speaker 1: I did, and I started working with my girlfriend Alice

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Speaker 1: and Porter on this thing called the Little Mamas which

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Speaker 1: was a website but also is a support group on

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Speaker 1: Facebook and we have about three thousand and four thousand

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Speaker 1: moms in there, wow, all over the world, which has

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Speaker 1: been amazing. And then and I met That's where I

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Speaker 1: met Jodi in Little Mamas, and then we started our podcast.

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Speaker 1: Never thought I'd say this until our children were like,

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Speaker 1: honest to God, if you say one more thing about us,

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Speaker 1: I have.

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Speaker 3: And I was a listener to that podcast, by the way,

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Speaker 3: before I knew you. So we've had these very parallel

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Speaker 3: paths to each other. It's pretty cool, funny.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun to do. It really was.

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Speaker 3: Oh it sounded like it was a blast to listen to.

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Speaker 3: And I'm the one on the treadmill laughing, and I'm

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Speaker 3: just the weird guy laughing with my big headphones on.

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Speaker 2: But I was like, if you all knew what I

434
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 2: was listening to, you'd understand. But you know Philistines.

435
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 1: Exactly, that's their loss.

436
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 3: So that's an incredible history that you have, and it

437
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 3: just goes into this natural I guess skip to you have,

438
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 3: just like how Jedis are kind of born for sensitive.

439
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 3: It's like a genetic factor. At least that's my interpretation. Again,

440
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 3: jac will come in at the end with some of

441
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 3: the factoids about that, but not only that, you are

442
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 3: a huge Star Wars fan. We've talked about a lot

443
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 3: of geeky. We've nerded out about a lot of stuff.

444
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,639
Speaker 1: Were my Star Wars shirt, And just so you know,

445
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 1: because I have fleck crazy leggings and I wear them

446
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 1: to yoga class, I am wearing Star Wars leggings. It's

447
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: Chewbacca on one leg and on the other leg it

448
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: is Han Solo. Just as a this is all you know,

449
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 1: they'll shout out to you, guys.

450
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 2: Hey, appreciate the leggings there. Well, thanks Harrison Ford, because

451
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: that's probably what he would say. He's like, oh wow, I.

452
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 1: Like your shirt as well. By the way, I just

453
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: realized what this.

454
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,959
Speaker 3: Is the shirt that you and Jody graciously got me,

455
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: and I adore the shirt just like I adore both

456
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 3: of you.

457
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 2: So you're a big Star Wars fan.

458
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 3: And with everything you just said, the reason I wanted

459
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 3: to ask about your mental health consoling history first is

460
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 3: because I'd imagine like you weren't. I'm sure you're always

461
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 3: an empathetic person and something like you just said, people

462
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 3: always came to you. But I would imagine watching Star

463
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 3: Wars after your training made it much different because you're

464
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 3: starting to just see these little nuances. Because I don't

465
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 3: think people realize in any movie, even when you go

466
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 3: back to like movies in the seventies, especially like Anything

467
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 3: Goes Ere of Hollywood, mental health games are everywhere. There's

468
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,239
Speaker 3: just risen to the forefront now because the discussions are

469
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,879
Speaker 3: more open, and there's mental health counselors on set and

470
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 3: they're in the writer's room, but they're everywhere, but very

471
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 3: much so in Star Wars. And this just goes to

472
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 3: so how I've had the curb George Lucas always was

473
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 3: in terms of character building and world building.

474
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think even there's always that

475
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: one scene in the UH in the original, on the

476
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: first one that I always thought, like, God, that kid

477
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: needs to like talk to someone, And it's when Luke

478
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 1: is just complaining about everything to his aunt and uncle,

479
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: and I just remember thinking like, Wow, you know, you're

480
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 1: just like really ungrateful and clearly have some pants up

481
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: rage or something going on. And that was even as

482
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: a kid, But rewatching them now, it's really actually hard

483
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 1: to not see all of that and not turn my

484
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: brain off and from like analyzing it, because that's all

485
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: I kind of want to do. And then I have

486
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 1: to kind of be like, well, you know what, I

487
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: should just watch the movie and enjoy it, because it's

488
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: hard to separate those two things. But I, you know,

489
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: but it is enjoyable. It is really because it's fascinating

490
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: to see and to actually like pick themes out and stuff.

491
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: Just like any you know, good story. You want to

492
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: be able to have themes and symbolism and a fair

493
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: amount of trauma. You know, that's what makes a good story.

494
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: And we've got that in Star Wars. So why wouldn't

495
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: I love that?

496
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah?

497
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And that's why, you know, stories that do put

498
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 3: thought into characters like Star Wars does, and the amount

499
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 3: of thought into the world building. Those kind of movies

500
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 3: become the gift that keeps giving because when those themes

501
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 3: are ever so present, even if you don't see them

502
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 3: right away, you're going to see them as you learn

503
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 3: more about yourself and maybe learn more about mental health.

504
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 3: Learn the moment I learned the term emotional dysregulation, I

505
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 3: started learning about anticipatory grief, and I started learning those

506
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 3: terms like the way my brain was like, oh okay,

507
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 3: Like now now I can connect the dots, like and

508
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: the procedural shows with the red yarn. That's kind of

509
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 3: how my brain is, Like I've got a lot of

510
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 3: stuff on the corkboard, but like I'm not sure where

511
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 3: to connect it. Yeah, once I get that little bit

512
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 3: of like a bread chrumb likening terms, And I think

513
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: a lot of people are that way too, because people

514
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 3: know they're feeling something, but once you can give a

515
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: name to it, I know that that's always helpful to

516
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: translate what's really going on in their brains.

517
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. It's funny because my my kids

518
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 1: will say things like you know, oh, I had secondhand

519
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: embarrassment watching that, and I one of them said the

520
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: other day and I was like, do you talk with

521
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: that around your friends? Like are they like what? How

522
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: did you hear that thing? And you know, and like

523
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: my kid was like, oh yeah, like oh great, you know,

524
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: like that's obviously, And then it was my son Alex,

525
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: and Alex was like well, but then I just say,

526
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, like my mom's a therapist. I mean, this

527
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: is just how we talk in our house. I was like, wow,

528
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,479
Speaker 1: that's I'm sure that's very popular. I mean, you know

529
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: you're going to be real popular.

530
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: There with that hashtag my mom's a therapist, the challenge

531
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: on on TikTok I guess coming soon.

532
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

533
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. So let's let's dive in.

534
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: Let's dive in now with and just like with Star Wars,

535
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 3: I wondered how invest in characters. I want to make

536
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 3: sure you all invest and Celia as a person, and

537
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: just because we don't get to hang out as much

538
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 3: as we like, so this was like also another excuse

539
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 3: for us to hang out. So let's dive into the

540
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 3: mental health things of Star Wars. Specifically, we're gonna talk

541
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 3: about Anakin Skywalker today, slash Darth Vader everybody, because we

542
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: are in the twentieth anniversary year of Revenge of the

543
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 3: Sith and as you know, we did a bonus episode

544
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: with Alex Damon from Star Wars explain commemorating that. So

545
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 3: today we're going to go over Anakin specifically as a

546
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 3: like a jump off point to hopefully a much larger

547
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 3: conversation because, like I said at the beginning, I hope

548
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 3: this is the first of many appearances of you coming

549
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 3: on too.

550
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: So so and thank you again for having me on.

551
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: This is very fun and exciting and not something I

552
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: would usually get to do, so I appreciate it.

553
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 2: Oh well, we'll make it a regular thing. We'll talk.

554
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 3: So here's where I'm going to start, just on the

555
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 3: broad sense of what I think about Anakin Skywalker slash

556
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 3: Darth Vader, because Anakin is supposed to be the Prophecy,

557
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: the chosen One, you know, who's going to bring balance

558
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 3: to the force. He's all powerful being who's potential is limitless.

559
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: Even as Darth Vader, he's this very powerful sith Lord.

560
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: Yet he's still taking orders from like Embra Palpatine, Grandma Target,

561
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 3: you know, he's still respecting the hierarchy even though he's

562
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: the most powerful one. So the thing that comes to

563
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: mind for me is Anakin slash Dark Vater has daddy issues,

564
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: and that's where my brain goes. And we're seeing the

565
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 3: impact of somebody who didn't have that positive male role model.

566
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 3: So I would love to start with like the consequences

567
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: of that. I like, we're seeing the consequence of that

568
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: rather of those dad issues and than not having the

569
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 3: positive male role model.

570
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: I do think that's part of it. I also, if

571
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: I had to diagnose Anakin, I would. I actually think

572
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: he is a mental health disorder. I think he is

573
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: borderline personality disorder. He actually exhibits all the signs of

574
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: the borderline personality disorder client and so. And I actually

575
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: like took notes because I was like, I know this

576
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: would come up, so I will tell you. So here's

577
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: some of the things that BPD actually impulsivity, anger, outbursts,

578
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: and identity crisis. If that doesn't up what's going on

579
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: over there, I really don't know what does. Some could

580
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: say he's got sociopathic tendencies. I'm not really sure about that.

581
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: I think that might be a nurture versus nature sort

582
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: of situation. But I think the thing that you're touching

583
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: on is it's certainly a daddy issue, but more than anything,

584
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: I think for him, it's abandonment issues he has. You know,

585
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: he's a fear of losing his mother, then he's got

586
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 1: fear of losing his wife, and it just sort of

587
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: highlights all of the fears of abandonment. And I think

588
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: that does you know, And that's why I think he

589
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: takes orders from everybody else around him. He is BPD.

590
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: He's a borderline personae of disorder. He wants to please,

591
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to be abandoned, so he will do

592
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: whatever that it takes to be able to stay relevant

593
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: with them.

594
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 3: So you're almost touching on something like almost like a

595
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 3: Stockholm syndrome. Would you say that, like does it kind

596
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 3: of toe the line between that of you know, because

597
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 3: when you think about it, Palpatine was grooming We meet

598
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: Anakin Skywalker, he's nine years old in The Phantom Menace,

599
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 3: So you think about it, you know, Palpatine is almost

600
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: grooming him from this young age, and he's the one

601
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 3: love bombing him a little bit, and it's almost But really,

602
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, like Palpatine did not

603
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: have his best interests at heart. But I think because

604
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 3: Palpatine was the only one who seemingly believed in him,

605
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 3: because he felt what you want is holding them back,

606
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: you know, he felt like that the Jedi Council didn't

607
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 3: give a master status in episode three. And this is

608
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 3: to say nothing of the disassociation, which we'll get into

609
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 3: in episode two with the same people. So I almost

610
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, like in your expert opinion, I when

611
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 3: everything you said there, Stockholm syndrome came to my mind

612
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: just now.

613
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's more I think of a mental abuse and

614
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: mental manipulation is what has happened to him again, you know,

615
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: BPD barbar and personality disorder BPD is is a really

616
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: tough diagnosis because again, like it's not clear, as most

617
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: things are not necessarily here if it's nurture versus nature.

618
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: And I think that because he has such abandonment issues,

619
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: he's just very easily manipulated at that time, and he

620
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: is looking for that father figure to tell him that

621
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: he is good, that he's a good because he's also

622
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: has that inner struggle of whether or not he is good.

623
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: He struggles with anger at you know, when he's a child,

624
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: he has those outbursts which you know might be a

625
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: behavioral disorder as well. Operational behavior behavioral defiance would probably

626
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: be something that was in you know, his therapist repertoire

627
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: if they were working with him. Sure, but I think

628
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: he's really really looking it doesn't matter where the love

629
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: comes from, right. It's like what people tell parents if

630
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: the toddler throws a tantrum and you scream at them,

631
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: they don't really it doesn't matter. They're just looking for

632
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: the attention from you. So you know, yelling and making

633
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: them more upset isn't necessarily going to do the trick.

634
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: It's not going to stop them from having that outburst.

635
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: And that's pretty much how Anakin is there his entire life.

636
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: I mean, even once he becomes Vader like, he has

637
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: these outbursts, but when somebody tells him, you know, gives

638
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: him praise or whatever it is, he takes it and

639
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: he wants to do what they want. He is very

640
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: people pleasy because of the abandonment issues.

641
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 3: That isn't I don't think I've ever heard anybody refer

642
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: to Darth Vater as a people pleaser. That is very interesting.

643
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: Can we expand on that a little bit, because that's

644
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: very interesting to me?

645
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: But think about that because he because he is right

646
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: like he gets, he gets they tell him what to do,

647
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, I'll do it. You know, kill

648
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: that person. I kill that person. He has his outbursts

649
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: and all you know, everything happens. He wants to please, please, please,

650
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: And then when he's finally with you know, Luke at

651
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: the in the in the end, he is he switches

652
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: right because all of a sudden, Luke is like, you're

653
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: you're my father and don't do it. And then it's like,

654
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: oh wait, now I'll please this person. He's telling me

655
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm something different, so I'm going to and this feels nice,

656
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: this positive reinforcement. He's actually telling me that I'm good inside.

657
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: These people have been in coouraging me to be successful

658
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: because I'm evil and I'm wanting me to be dark,

659
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: and this person's telling me I can make another thing

660
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: and he'll love me also, So I'm gonna flip now,

661
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: which is another borderline thing to please this person and

662
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: turn around and do that. It is and borderline personality

663
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: disorders tend to be people pleasers, and not in the

664
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: sense of somebody who that's a cat. Sorry, I'm not somebody,

665
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: not in a people please the sense where you know,

666
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: some people end up being people pleasers because they've been

667
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, emotionally dysregulated or abused and it is just

668
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: in their personality to want to make everybody happy. That's

669
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: not really where he's at, Like, that's not the kind

670
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: of people pleaser that Anakin slash, you know, Vader is.

671
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:52,239
Speaker 1: It's more of a I want to feel things and

672
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: if in these people make me. When this person treats

673
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: me this way I feel. This is how I feel.

674
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: I feel important and I feel well, I feel like

675
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing something real. And because they can disassociate so much,

676
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: so that's you know, I think that's where he that's

677
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: where he falls.

678
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: That is so fascinating here and all that. Uh And

679
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: if I went silent, notts because I'm just absorbing, you

680
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 3: know me. I like to just absorb the information like

681
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: I'm Johnny five and short circuit too, just like taking

682
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: in all the input.

683
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: But it's like two things on the mind.

684
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: One again, first I said it was fascinating, but two

685
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: it's like Vader needed someone like yourself to put Like again,

686
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: I was talking about attaching terms to a certain feeling.

687
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: He certainly feels that he just can't put a like

688
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: a term to it. And Anakin's like a supercomputer. Its

689
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: lies Vader, Like you tell him something, he's going to

690
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: compute it in like a like a Doogie howser prodigy sense,

691
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: he's going to get it right away. And yeah, and

692
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: everything you just talked about, and especially with the borderline

693
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: personality disorder, because because yours also the first to really

694
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 3: tell say that out loud, at least, you know, maybe

695
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: others have said it, but first time I've actually heard that,

696
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: and I believe there's a term when Borderline called favorite person.

697
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: And when I think about that, and we've talked about

698
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: this for all of our listeners a couple of weeks

699
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: ago when we did the twentieth anniversary special. On episode three,

700
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 3: JC touched on Anakin's obsession with Padme. There's a love,

701
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: but there's like an obsession and it almost but I

702
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: feel like you saw in episode three the favorite person

703
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: and also how the favorite person become your least favorite

704
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 3: person over the arc of that that show.

705
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: Am I onto something here with that?

706
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: You absolutely are? And I think that's partly the Again,

707
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: it's some of it is the abandonment stuff, and a

708
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: lot of it is that impulsivity that he has and

709
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: the emotional you know, dysregulation that he has, and so

710
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: you know, he just can't really like, he can't stay

711
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: connected to somebody in a positive way when there's somebody

712
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: on the opposite side pulling him to the dark side

713
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: because he it's whoever is more powerful and whoever is

714
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: eating whatever demon that is at the time, and she

715
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: does try so hard, you know, you see that love

716
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: with them in the beginning and you do have like

717
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: this hope for him, just like you see it at

718
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: the end when he's with Luke. But he's always pulled

719
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: back into and I think it's because he's got those

720
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: rage and anger management issues. He's pulled back into that,

721
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: and that's what will flip him into Well, now you're

722
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: going against this other person who's known me longer, who's

723
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: given me more, who says I am this very big,

724
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: powerful thing, which, by the way, is another part of

725
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: BPD is grandiosity, and he has that. He wants to

726
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: be told that. So when she's showing him so much

727
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: love and she's trying to make him feel loved, in

728
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: his mind, it goes to a place, I think where

729
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: he starts to feel small. He equates that happy feeling

730
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: and that being good feeling with being small, which honestly

731
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: is sort of It's highlighted in the last of his

732
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: last scene when he is fatter and the mask comes off.

733
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: It's like he goes from this very big, you know

734
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: thing who's encapsulated and it's all hard shelling and casing

735
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, right, and then it comes off

736
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: and he's just this small, you know, hurt old man basically,

737
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 1: and it's that's who he is, truly, but he's built

738
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: up this armor and I think that's, you know, very

739
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: symbolic of Vader's uniform, so to speak.

740
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

741
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely, because by episode three, the full disassociation happens. I believe,

742
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 3: let's dive in the Attack of the Clones really quick,

743
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: because there was a lot of things of oh, he

744
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: didn't really become Dark Vader when he put the mask on.

745
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 3: That was just the symbolism of the full disassociation. We

746
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: always the whole thing is he's started to really start

747
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 3: the transformation to Vader. The moment he went back to Taitowen, yes,

748
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: and he sees his mother was killed by sad people,

749
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 3: and it was I think it was that moment right

750
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: before he killed the same people when the disassociation started.

751
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, that's his psychotic break. Yeah, yeah, I

752
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: think in that moment he had a psychotic break. I

753
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: really do. I mean that everything he demonstrates in that

754
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: and is that and BPD you know, are prone to that.

755
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: So yep, absolutely, I completely agree with that.

756
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 3: So with that, because we're talking about nature versus nurture

757
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 3: and certain genetic markers, this is something that Anakin was

758
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: most likely born with But like that moment of disassociation

759
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 3: was like the catalyst to have that psychotic break you're

760
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 3: talking about it, Yeah, I think.

761
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: Well, I think there was a lot of things that

762
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: were leading up to it. Right. It was like he's

763
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: had these sort of think of it as because there's

764
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: so much there's always been an emotional dysregulation with him,

765
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: and there's always been someone sort of poking at him,

766
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: and a little bit of his need for being validated. Right,

767
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: That grandiosity is there from when he's like little little

768
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: And I think it's a lot of micro cuts, right,

769
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: Like a lot of micro cuts to his psyche, and

770
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: then the final and he's already battling BPD and then

771
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: the final straw is that And is you know seeing

772
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: his mom and after the sad people murder. Yeah, I

773
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: think that that's exactly what happens.

774
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 4: And I you know, I don't know if I mean,

775
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 4: part of me is like, wow, if only he'd had

776
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 4: a therapist early on and someone to confide in and

777
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 4: talk to, that would have changed it.

778
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: But who knows, you know, who knows? Because you don't

779
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: know how powerful the outside world is to him that

780
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: and how honest he's going to be in therapy. And

781
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: what we know about Anakin is also he's not always

782
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: honest with his feelings because he cannot really wrap his

783
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: head around them most of the time. The most comfortable

784
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: feeling that he has is anger. That's the one he uses,

785
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: which you know, anyone who's been angry before, you tend

786
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: to know that as you calm down from your anger,

787
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of other emotions underneath that, and

788
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I got here because my anxiety said

789
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: and then then I was afraid. I mean, fear is

790
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: usually the thing that triggers us, right, So if you

791
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: look at it, he is really just afraid of everything

792
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: all the time. But because of the BPD he's got,

793
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I won't be afraid. I am amazing.

794
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: Everyone tells me that I'm amazing and I can do

795
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: all these things. So I'm going to do everything that

796
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: they say that I can do. It doesn't matter if

797
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: it's good or bad. If it gets me seen, if

798
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: it makes me feel bigger than I am and not weak,

799
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: then I'll be doing that.

800
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: I'm just subsorbing everything.

801
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 3: So two things kind of mine with that one with

802
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: the disassociation, Yeah, in episode two and then episode three

803
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: is like he's getting validation that in his mind is

804
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 3: on the right path, and which leads into a term

805
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 3: I've heard recently called a couple called the psychological immunity

806
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: system or like mental gymnastics.

807
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the term I've heard.

808
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:39,479
Speaker 1: I love that one.

809
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 3: It's this amazing book by Keith Paine. Are you familiar

810
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: with him? I am, Yeah, he wrote Did you read

811
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: his latest book about it? Was like called Good Reasonable People.

812
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 3: I think it just came out in the last couple

813
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: of months. I just got finished, and I feel like

814
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 3: you would really appreciate it because he talks about he

815
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 3: tries to find the reasoning of why people are so

816
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 3: married to certain ideologies and why like they're so like

817
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: right or die with this, And I see that a

818
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 3: lot in Anakin, because he's trying to find validation that

819
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 3: what he did on Tito Win was the right move yep,

820
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: and what his decisions and his feelings are are the

821
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 3: right move which are validated by Palpatine, because Palpatine, like

822
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 3: I said, he has been grooming him since like the

823
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 3: age of nine.

824
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: Yep.

825
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 3: So I think with you just alluded to maybe in

826
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: this therapy session that those mental gymnastics may have come

827
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: into play where he has to justify because no one

828
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 3: wants to believe they're a bad person. And even at

829
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: the key line is from my point of view, the

830
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: Jedi or evil. So I think that line hits so

831
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 3: differently now because back then I'm like, well, no, it's

832
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: not like, that's not what it is. But when you

833
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 3: understand where he may be coming from, he's trying to

834
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 3: justify in his brain, and you really support his psychological

835
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 3: immune system to validate he's making the right choice.

836
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that leads me to if I had to

837
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: make a secondary diagnosis of him, I would say he

838
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: is heap wrought. He exhibits tendencies of bipolar disorder as well,

839
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: and that's where that would fit in. Right, That's a

840
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: lot of mental gymnastics happens with bipolar people, and you know,

841
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: and that disassociation because you can you know, hit manic

842
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: and depressed and you you I mean people think that

843
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: those when the way it's been portrayed in a lot

844
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: of shows, uh, you know, bipolar disorder and and borderline

845
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: for that matter, but bipolar more than that is like

846
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: they're you know, if they're manic. They are just completely

847
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: uh you know, artsy and happy and creating and you know,

848
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: and they don't really show that. Actually that's not always true, right,

849
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: It's like they get abusive and uh you know, ragey

850
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: and all that. And then when it's the when you

851
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: go into a depressive episode, people think, oh, they just

852
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: like can't get out of bed, and that's also not

853
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: always true. People mask that part really really well. They

854
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: might you might just not hear from them for a while.

855
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: And I see that in him, especially if you know,

856
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: and I think if he had a therapist, that's probably

857
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: where this would have gone. And if he had just

858
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: been and you know, borderline until that moment of the

859
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: same people, he probably switched over to you know, bipolar

860
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: kick like that was the trigger that started that those

861
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: things because you don't see it really until then, Like

862
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 1: you said, that disassociation happens when he breaks and then

863
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: from then on you kind of do see it. You know,

864
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: he has moments of being like really and his high

865
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: is definitely fighting and doing you know, murderous things, and

866
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: but his low those come when he's feeling really vulnerable,

867
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: like that's you know, where he is where he's just

868
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: like he doesn't know anymore who he is. You see

869
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 1: him struggle with it when he's you know, with Padman

870
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: a lot, Like he's just not that's he's a different

871
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: person at you know, well at times until he's not.

872
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very much.

873
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 3: And I think we talked about this before when we

874
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 3: were texting kicking ideas before the officially recorded that Nathaniel

875
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 3: Hawthorn quote which was in the Sopranos about you know,

876
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: when you were in two different faces, it's going to

877
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: come to a point you're not sure which one is

878
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 3: the real one or you talking about the Kirk Bonica

879
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 3: quote of be careful who you pretend to be, because

880
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 3: you will.

881
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: Be who exactly. Well again, like and that's a perfect

882
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: quote because like you know, he is two people at

883
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: the by the end, he literally is by playing bipolar

884
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: and he's two different people and two totally different personalities,

885
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: and he has the mask on like it's really very

886
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 1: it's completely what you know what that quote says he becomes.

887
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 3: Literally, so he really is just a complex and like

888
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: in a fascinating character study because there's so many layers

889
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 3: to it, you know, and as a kid, like when

890
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 3: I watch Star Wars, I just you know, they say

891
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 3: only assit deals in absolutes. But it's like, as a kid,

892
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 3: that's all you know. It's like, this is the good guy,

893
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 3: this is the bad guy. So that's all you know.

894
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 3: But then the more we dig into this, and even

895
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 3: just like talking to you about and I've I've watched

896
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 3: a lot of Star Wars and I've rewatched quite a bit,

897
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 3: and you know me, I'm like I said, a very

898
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 3: curious brain.

899
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to be researching whatever.

900
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 3: But you know, this comes to mind, and I'll touch

901
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: on this really quick because even when we see the

902
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: version of Vader and Brogue one or this is like

903
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: the full on like you know, this is I'm fully

904
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 3: leaning in and this is Vader like super super viscer

905
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 3: role and super super brutal. But then you know, even

906
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: in Star Wars Rebels, he shows up and he you know,

907
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 3: he basically diss is the Anakin Skywalker persona.

908
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 2: He's like, no, he was weak. I destroyed him.

909
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: And then you talk about the Canoby series, which I

910
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 3: don't know if you got a chance to watch that.

911
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 2: They didn't watch that, so you should.

912
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: Know that's not true. I did.

913
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm true, but you know, how he

914
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 3: had his he had Reva, and he's repeating that basic

915
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 3: like almost the cycle of abuse with with Riva. And

916
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 3: and it's fascinating to see Vader with Reva versus Anakin

917
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: with Ahsoka, because it's like Ahsoka was his chance to

918
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 3: be the good mentor and unfortunately didn't pan out that way.

919
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 3: And then with Riva, by that time, he's full on

920
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 3: Darth Vader, and he's like, I guess some sort of

921
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: version of intergenerational trauma is what what I could call it.

922
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: Look at the same way that he was groomed. I mean,

923
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: it's all he knows, right, I mean, that's that's actually

924
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: statistically completely after it, you know, I mean that was

925
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: what I actually did. My my thesis on when I

926
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 1: was in grad school was that, you know, abusers, anyone

927
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: who is abusers, tend to raise abusers. They don't mean to,

928
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: but they tend. But you know, you really have to

929
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: fight that if you were abused at any point. And

930
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: it's also why you know, children who were abused end

931
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: up usually in relationships that are abusive, so you know,

932
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: and either they become the abuser or they continue to

933
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 1: be abused because it feels familiar. And that's a whole

934
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: thing with you know, with Anakin and Darth is that

935
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: it's like homeostasis is a powerful thing. He is not

936
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: somebody that likes things to go the way he didn't plan,

937
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: you know. He wants everything to go his way and

938
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: stay the same. And if there's like a big change

939
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: and it's not how you know he planned it, that's

940
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: where he completely flips out because he can't he can't

941
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: do he can't do it, even if it's somebody you know,

942
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: talking back to him. He can't handle that in the end,

943
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: and that's so much part of that. But it's the

944
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: same thing that was done to him. I mean, any

945
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, he spoke out a turn, he got in trouble,

946
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: and trouble being a lot different than you know, being

947
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: sent to your room.

948
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much.

949
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 3: So it's very much almost I almost think of like

950
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 3: arrested development in his case where he's going to regress

951
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: to that kid version of himself who just knows how

952
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 3: to throw the tantrum, you know, because that's just you

953
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 3: go with what you know. And the homeostasis is such

954
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 3: a great term to use. And then the term you

955
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: use like masking because like masking is both that a

956
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 3: fourk onne literal in the case of Darth Vader where

957
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 3: the mask finally comes off. And with that in mind,

958
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: the title return the Jedi hits differently because the Jedi

959
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,240
Speaker 3: that returns is Anakin.

960
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: That's right when you think about it.

961
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, isn't it. By the way, I'm laughing because

962
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: you said Arrested Development and it's the wrong show. But

963
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: I have three cats announce a lot and they are

964
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: all named after the show Arrested Development, and one of

965
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: them is currently attacking everything on my table and I'm

966
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: hoping he doesn't knock over my computer. And so I

967
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: don't know if you watch that show, but Steve Holt,

968
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: get off of the table.

969
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 3: Well, for the sake of our listeners, who you know,

970
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 3: because we are Star Wars Rebel centric podcasts on our

971
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 3: on our core episodes. Yes, those are loathcats in case

972
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: you're wondering. So yeah, we're all staying on cannon here.

973
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 3: So I think just to kind of there's so much

974
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 3: more we can do in this is I feel like

975
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 3: we can do like a part two of this, and

976
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 3: maybe we can at some point you can break down

977
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: some of the characters and Rebels and we'll get some

978
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 3: of the cast on to talk to you about it.

979
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: I love that.

980
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been watching Rebels. It's great, isn't it. Yeah?

981
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: And I don't know that I would have had you

982
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: not mentioned it to me and I but I having

983
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean already I was like, oh, there's a lot

984
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: here just in the first like five episodes.

985
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 3: Oh, the Ezra character alone, and wait till you get

986
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 3: like Taylor is such a Taylor and I are very similar.

987
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 3: He's you know, he's also got the very curious brain.

988
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 3: He's very much like wants information. And I feel like

989
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 3: that's going to be a fascinating combo when that happens.

990
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 3: So with with Anakin, everything we just unwrapped. And because

991
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 3: not all therapy is created equally. And what I mean

992
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 3: by that is because when I started therapy, I was,

993
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 3: you know, what you call treating the symptom because I

994
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 3: was like, I know I'm behaving this way. So my

995
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 3: thinking was, let me go to a behavioral therapist, right,

996
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: And then to this woman's credits, who was wonderful. It

997
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: was halfway through a session She's like, I don't think

998
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 3: I'm the right therapist. View Like, what do you mean,

999
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm being honest, like, like, what would

1000
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: I do? She's like, it's not that you need to

1001
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 3: go to a trauma therapist, because you need to get

1002
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: to the why before you can figure out how to

1003
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 3: fix it.

1004
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 2: And so I feel like that would have been the

1005
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: place to start with.

1006
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 3: Anakin's like, let's start with the trauma therapist because again

1007
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 3: we meet him at age nine. You're talking about attachment

1008
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 3: issues and attachment trauma and raised by a slave, and

1009
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 3: he's basically just used as labor, like he's not thought

1010
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: of as a person, but he's also brilliant. It's almost

1011
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: like this I call it the will Hunting complex, like

1012
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 3: he feels haunted by this gift he head, like where

1013
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: you can't help but think that maybe he thinks life

1014
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 3: would have been easier if he didn't have these gifts,

1015
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 3: if he could just be like a normy for lack

1016
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: of a better term. So would you think that that

1017
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: would be a place to start, Like, because you got

1018
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 3: to unret the trauma before you know, treat the cause

1019
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 3: before you really treat this and some sort of thing.

1020
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm did you were you in for cognitive behavioral

1021
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: therapy CBT? Is that what.

1022
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 2: Yes, That's where I started with, Yes, I like I.

1023
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: Like DBT as well. Yeah. I anyone who ever comes

1024
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: to me and hasn't been to therapy before and they

1025
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: want to do CBT or DPT, which both of which

1026
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: I love and practice. Uh, that's my first question is, well,

1027
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 1: have you done talk therapy yet? Have you gone through

1028
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: trauma therapy? Because you can, you know, you can do

1029
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: all the homework you want and write out all of

1030
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: your for people who don't know a lot of you know,

1031
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: CBT is homework and it'll be you know, translating your thoughts.

1032
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: So you'll write, I had a you know, I had

1033
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: a terrible day and I want to punch people. And

1034
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: you have to look at that sentence and figure out

1035
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: how to reframe that in your mind and make it

1036
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: so that it's not so harsh, right, and it usually

1037
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: is directed at yourself, and so you know, you're like,

1038
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm a terrible person. I screwed up everything, And you

1039
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: want to look at that and then say, you know,

1040
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: I'm I'm human, I made a mistake. Tomorrow, I'll fix it, right,

1041
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: That's what we want to train our brains to go.

1042
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: But what your therapist said, and she was correct, right,

1043
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: you want to figure out, like but what who told

1044
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: you were a terrible person to begin? So you got

1045
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: to go there before you move forward. So yes, I

1046
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: would say that that's definitely where Anakin should have started.

1047
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: He he really needed to read the book, you know,

1048
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: The Body keeps the Score. I mean, I know, I

1049
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 1: know everybody's reading it now, but like that's really because

1050
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: it because it does, and that's where your trauma, you know, sits.

1051
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: And then if it's untapped and you don't know, then

1052
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: you're going to probably have a blow up. I say

1053
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: to clients all the time. It's sorry, it's a gross analogy,

1054
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 1: but it's like, honestly, the best one I could ever

1055
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: think of is that when it comes to trauma and

1056
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: it comes to grief, think of yourself sort of like

1057
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: a drain, like a toilet. You can you can flush paper,

1058
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: towel down a toilet for a pretty long time, but eventually,

1059
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. It gets clogged, that's correct, and

1060
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: then it all all the blank. I don't know, if

1061
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: you swear on the show, comes flying back out, so

1062
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, and that and that's kind of what happened

1063
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: to him, you know, that's what happened. He just kept

1064
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: shoving the traumas down. And then you have an abuser

1065
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: and a groomer on the opposite side saying like, oh, no,

1066
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 1: use that trauma. Use that trauma to take down the

1067
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: people that pause that trauma, even though they you know,

1068
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily You get even and you'll feel better.

1069
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: And I think that that's so much of what's being

1070
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: told to him his whole life. If you get even,

1071
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: you'll feel better. And the you know, on the opposite side,

1072
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: you know, you've got his wife being like, no, that

1073
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: you can feel better just by being loved. But isn't

1074
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: that sort of the human condition anyway? You know, It's

1075
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: like we have to make that choice every day to

1076
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: either to love and forgive or to stay angry and

1077
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: act out. And I think that he made his choice,

1078
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, for a real long time, and then at

1079
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: the very end again, when that mask comes off, he

1080
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: chooses something different.

1081
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1082
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's so profound. And I love good toilet humor,

1083
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: so I mean, I appreciate that. So this episode has

1084
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 3: been brought to by Coler everybody, So.

1085
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: When you were you.

1086
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 3: Use code Celia twenty five or twenty five percent off

1087
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 3: your next toilet at coler Post. That that's so that's

1088
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: so well put. And I had this conversation that the David,

1089
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 3: my friend. It's literally last night I said, look, I've

1090
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 3: come to the point in my life where I have

1091
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 3: I'm at peace knowing that I'm not in control of

1092
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 3: what happened in the past. We're not in control of

1093
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 3: what happens tomorrow in the future. I'm in control of

1094
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 3: how I react or don't react to past events, and

1095
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 3: I am in control of being at peace with not

1096
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 3: knowing but just being open to whatever the possibilities are. Now,

1097
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 3: I'm it sounds like I'm over simplifying, because I am.

1098
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: It took me many many years to get to this

1099
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 3: point and a lot of really honest looks at yourself,

1100
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 3: which to anyone out there who may be considering therapy,

1101
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 3: just just know, like spoiler, it's very it can be

1102
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 3: very frightening and scary because that's our mental gymnastics WePlay,

1103
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: that's our psychological immune system. You know, we don't want

1104
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 3: to believe are bad people. By the end of the day,

1105
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 3: if you're working on yourself to try to get there,

1106
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 3: you got to understand, like this is going to be

1107
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 3: part of the process. It's going to be uncomfortable, but

1108
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 3: you look at anything that was worth the dam, you

1109
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 3: know you're going to go through discomfort to get to

1110
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 3: where you're ultimately going to be going, which whether Anakin

1111
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 3: would have been willing to do the work or not,

1112
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 3: that's a great what if question. I don't think we can.

1113
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 3: You know, maybe we can do a whateip episode, but

1114
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 3: it would be like what if he actually the Jedi

1115
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 3: Council actually had mental health protocols and like a counselor

1116
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 3: on set with them. But we are going to share

1117
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 3: some resources, or you're going to share some resources rather

1118
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 3: and where people can contact you if they want to

1119
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 3: book an apployment. But before we do that, because I've

1120
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 3: been talking about jac, I would love to bring jac

1121
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: on in case we miss messed up any sort of facts.

1122
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 3: But so, first of all, JC, did we mess up anything?

1123
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 3: Is there anything we need to correct before I feed

1124
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 3: you a question, because I would love to hear some

1125
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 3: of your thoughts and what we just talked about.

1126
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 5: I don't think so I have some just some clarification

1127
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 5: and some confirmation. I could not get any I couldn't

1128
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 5: find anything on whether or not The Sopranos was the

1129
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 5: first time that a therapist going to therapy to talk

1130
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 5: about therapy was was televised. But John, maybe maybe Alan

1131
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 5: Thick and Growing Pains. There's an episode there eighties nineties show.

1132
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 5: Try to trigger your memory there. Well, thank you for

1133
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 5: showing me that smile.

1134
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: Again, it's very possible that Jodie was on a show

1135
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: on that show at one point, like, I think she

1136
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: made that a guest appearance, just as a circling back

1137
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: to Jodie Sweeten.

1138
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: Probably, yeah, I think so.

1139
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 5: And then at one point you mentioned that Jedi are

1140
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 5: born with the force sensitivity or whatever, which I believe.

1141
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 5: You know, the dirty word in Star Wars for a

1142
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 5: long time was midichlorians, so much so that they changed

1143
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 5: it in the new TV shows to be m count

1144
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 5: But I do believe that the level of medichlorians in

1145
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 5: their blood is what allows them to access and harness

1146
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 5: and manipulate the energy field that is the Force, even

1147
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 5: though everybody has mediclorians in their blood. And then again,

1148
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 5: looking at the Mandalorian all the way up through the

1149
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 5: sequel trilogy, I mean, the whole thing is about Palpatine

1150
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 5: trying to clone himself to come back and replicate the

1151
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 5: amount of mediclorians he has in the body, showing that

1152
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 5: it is kind of a supernatural thing. It doesn't just

1153
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,760
Speaker 5: happen because of your DNA or whatever.

1154
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,240
Speaker 2: The case may be interesting.

1155
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 5: And then the only other thing I have is like,

1156
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 5: for anyone who thinks like the prequels aren't good or

1157
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 5: Darth Vader's turn is too quick or things like that,

1158
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 5: rewind the podcast. Listen to it again with that in mind,

1159
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,959
Speaker 5: because I think it does everything you guys talked about,

1160
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 5: does a really good job of showing that Anakin didn't

1161
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 5: just become Darth Vader after the confrontation in Palpatine's office.

1162
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 5: It was a journey that started from the point we

1163
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 5: meet him, you know, and even before that. And you know,

1164
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 5: there's deleted scenes in Stars episode one if you want

1165
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 5: to go back with Anakin punching Wald or Greto actually

1166
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 5: young Greto in that are not in the movie, that

1167
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 5: you can find on the DVD deleted scenes or maybe

1168
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 5: on Disney Plus.

1169
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1170
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 5: So again, you can trace his his issues that were

1171
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 5: talked about on this episode all the way back to

1172
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety nine.

1173
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 3: I love that because you just said something really interesting

1174
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 3: about the mcount thing and it made me think of something.

1175
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 3: I feel like because if technically there's some sort of

1176
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 3: genetic component component rather to unlock that, that mays lead

1177
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: it's me to think that maybe, And maybe it's just

1178
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 3: because I just rewatched the Accountant movie, but what if

1179
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 3: I'm thinking there's some sort of neurodiversity happening with these

1180
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 3: four sensitive kids that are able to unlock because like,

1181
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 3: as someone who is neurodiverse, I know what it's like

1182
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 3: to tap into that hyper focus, which almost feels like

1183
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: I'm wielding the force. So we don't have to answer

1184
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 3: that today. And Steelia, maybe that could be something we

1185
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 3: can come back and talk about. But I feel like

1186
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 3: there's some sort of neurodiversity happening in order for them

1187
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 3: to unlock that. I think maybe we can just sit

1188
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 3: with that and not have an answer right now. Just

1189
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 3: you've smark that right now, just as you said that,

1190
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 3: and my ADHD totally kicked in and you understand the

1191
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 3: ADHD brain JC as well. But yeah, I want to

1192
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,240
Speaker 3: throw it to you now because with all the knowledge

1193
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 3: you have, and Celia for in case you don't know,

1194
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 3: like Jac's credentials in terms of knowing the things about

1195
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 3: Star Wars. Low I always say he doesn't need the

1196
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 3: Jedi Temple archives because he is the archives like he

1197
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 3: just just has to tap into his brain.

1198
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: So with everything you know.

1199
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: Your background, JC, good Lord, everything back there, I want

1200
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: to put on one of the start. I want that

1201
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: right now.

1202
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 2: I want that. The room expands very much, so too

1203
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: like it. There's a lot of depth to it.

1204
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 3: But with everything you know about Star Wars, Jasey and

1205
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 3: our the history you have grown up at the original

1206
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 3: trilogy like us, has anything we've said in today's conversation

1207
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 3: sparked anything or like made you look at things differently?

1208
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 5: No, you know everything you guys said. I think you

1209
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 5: just kind of dove deeper on some ideas that I

1210
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 5: had had and some notes I had taken going into this.

1211
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 5: The one thought I had for Celia was today we

1212
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 5: talked a lot about Anakin's fall and some of the

1213
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 5: mental reasons in the Nature versus Nurture that fed into that.

1214
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 5: But ultimately, Star Wars is a redemption story. The point

1215
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 5: of Star Wars is that love can bring anybody back

1216
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 5: from any any sort of atrocity, which you mentioned just

1217
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 5: at the end. So I guess my question would be

1218
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 5: if you if Anakin Skywalker came to you pre Darth Vader,

1219
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 5: then as Darth Vader, and then as the return of

1220
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 5: Anakin Skywalker, would your approach to that person's therapy change

1221
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 5: based on the version of Anakin you were getting, meaning

1222
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 5: the episode two version, is the approach different than the

1223
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 5: return of the Jedi version that Luke brings back, And

1224
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 5: because Darth Vader is so deep in it, do you

1225
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 5: approach them all differently? Or do you attempt to tackle

1226
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 5: that the same way with each of those people, because

1227
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 5: it's almost like it's the same person, but three different

1228
00:57:58,400 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 5: versions of that person.

1229
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: That is such a good question. Yeah, such a great question,

1230
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: you know. I have my instinct is to say I

1231
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: would treat them, I would diagnose the same, but the

1232
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: treatment might change based on which version obviously I'm getting.

1233
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: I think overall, the thing with Uh, you know, with

1234
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:28,439
Speaker 1: him is that he needs consistency, Like that's shown over

1235
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: and over again with Anakin and Darth Vader. He needs consistency,

1236
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: and the trauma is the trauma. It's the you know,

1237
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: it's it's actually what John's saying, like it's how you

1238
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: response to the trauma. And that's what keeps changing for him,

1239
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: is like what are his responses to the trauma as

1240
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: he goes through more and more? You know, I think

1241
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: it would probably have to start. I mean at some

1242
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: point he would go to CBT, Like he would absolutely

1243
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: do cognitive behavioral therapy because you'd need him to write down.

1244
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: I would need him to write down, you know, what

1245
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: it was that he was feeling. And so I can

1246
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: see what's happening in his mind as Vader now as

1247
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: opposed to when he was you know, Anakin, and how

1248
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: to get that voice in his head to change, and

1249
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: also to identify whose voice is that it didn't start

1250
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: as his right, Like, that's not how he was born,

1251
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: So he's hearing somebody else's voice telling him that he

1252
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: is these things. Once we identify those and we have

1253
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: him start doing homework and the work, it's like then

1254
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: it's easier to point out because again, remember you know,

1255
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: I can't remember which of you is. I think John,

1256
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: you said it like he he grasps things so fast

1257
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: he can just do them that I think if he

1258
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: was trained to be able to be to sit with

1259
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: it right, to look at how he's thinking and then

1260
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: change the you know, work with somebody to be able

1261
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: to say like, Okay, you know I'm not I'm not

1262
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: a horrible, terrible person. I don't need to attack everyone

1263
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: when I feel attacked. Instead, what I need to think

1264
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: is I'm a good person who's gone through a lot

1265
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: of bad things, and my instinct is to attack, and

1266
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that anymore. This doesn't have

1267
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: to be who I am. They have to do that

1268
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: kind of work with him. I think as it you know,

1269
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: goes on, he he almost kind of gets there and

1270
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: it's like you know, super quick sessions with Luke at

1271
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: the end like that, and it is love bringing somebody back.

1272
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: And I and not to be you know, super California hokey,

1273
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: but I believe that's true. I do think that you know,

1274
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: you took that love is the thing that you know

1275
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: really can bring people back because you invite what, you know,

1276
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: whatever that that love is you feel from an animal,

1277
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: from you know, another person, from you know. I don't know,

1278
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: like even if just like your love of nature can bring.

1279
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 5: You back, can I ask another question, are you surprised?

1280
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: You know?

1281
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 2: Famously the.

1282
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 5: Teaser poster for Star Wars episode two said a Jedi

1283
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 5: shall not no fear, nor anger nor love, right, And

1284
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 5: it was Anakin impad made back to back. Are you

1285
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 5: surprised that there are not more dark Jedi running around

1286
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 5: the galaxy due to the Jedi's misguided views on love

1287
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 5: and how love is not accepted by their order? Like

1288
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 5: shouldn't you know they're taking children and putting them through

1289
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 5: this indoctrination? Almost are you surprised that there aren't more

1290
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 5: fallen Jedi? You know the famously I think there were.

1291
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 5: There were twelve fallen Jedi whose busts were in the

1292
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 5: Jedi Temple archives. I mean, shouldn't there be a ton

1293
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 5: of them?

1294
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: No? Statistically speaking, no, because if you think about I mean,

1295
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: let's look at it like you know, kids that end

1296
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: up in foster care or in you know, a juvie

1297
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: for that matter, like that, it's not like, I mean,

1298
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: there's a small percentage of them that don't get out,

1299
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, and have to move on to other systems.

1300
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: You know, it's more than it should be, for sure,

1301
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: because we should be doing more for our population and

1302
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: certainly for our youth. But it's still going to be

1303
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: a percentage. And I think those twelve are the ones

1304
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: that were already had you know, we're already predisposed, probably

1305
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: genetically to something that was going on or whoever. The

1306
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: you know, the nurture was versus the nature was was

1307
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, wildly out of whack, and that also could

1308
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: spark more of a difference, But no, because I mean, look,

1309
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: we've all been through trauma. So if you look at

1310
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: it like that, then all of us would be you know, sociopaths, psychopaths,

1311
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, and I think we're seeing more of them recently.

1312
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: But I you know, I again, I think that's because

1313
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: of the exposure that people have to things. So I

1314
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: think the more you're exposed to stuff like that, the

1315
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: easier it is for you to get lost in it.

1316
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: But I would say those were the ones that were predisposed.

1317
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: Who knows, you know, I'd have to we'd have to

1318
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: have like a whole discussion on ericson and you know,

1319
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: nurture versus nature and his horrible experience their experiments rather

1320
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: with monkeys, which you know, don't ever google that to

1321
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: everyone who hasn't ever looked at them, don't ELL's that.

1322
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: But I do think that that's really what it comes

1323
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: down to is like you know, I mean even in

1324
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: like you know, statistically speaking like I have you know,

1325
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: like I said, I've got these cats, and I've got

1326
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: they were raised by me, They've been with me the

1327
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: same amount of time. And I've got one sitting very

1328
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 1: docily doing the you know, a great job, and the

1329
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: other one has taken something of Jodie's actually and is

1330
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: currently trying to swallow it and I'm going to get

1331
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: it away from him in a minute. So you know,

1332
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: who knows, Like that's just how that one's predisposed versus

1333
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: how the other one's predisposed. It's not like they were

1334
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: raised differently. They weren't. This is I mean, that's what

1335
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: makes us individuals, right I mean, and that is I

1336
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 1: mean getting back to Star Wars, I mean, that is

1337
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: the force, right, like what makes it. It's our it's

1338
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: spirit and it's what makes us all individual and then

1339
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: it's different how you use it and if you are predisposed.

1340
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: It was even like you were talking about, you know,

1341
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 1: as far as all the scientific terms that I'm not

1342
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: going to get into because you guys are a dork

1343
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: gear than I am, which is shocking actually.

1344
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 2: Or just getting the tip of the ice.

1345
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 3: Well, I think, well, one, please you have to come back,

1346
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 3: and I know you're ready agreed to, but I'm just

1347
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 3: going to reiterate that I really would love to make

1348
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 3: this a recurring thing. I almost feel like I'll just

1349
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 3: speak on myself and JC, I'm sure you agree. I

1350
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 3: almost feel like I need to get your Zell information

1351
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 3: and thank and like pay you for this therapy session

1352
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 3: I got for like the last hour because just like

1353
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 3: and this just goes to show over when that mental

1354
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 3: health talks don't have to be intimidating. We look, we

1355
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 3: just utilized Star Wars and a fictional character which is

1356
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 3: dealing with like real issues that can apply to real

1357
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 3: life to use that as a jump bop point to

1358
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 3: have mental health discussions. So mental health discussions don't have

1359
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 3: to beat you over the head with it. We can

1360
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 3: utilize something you're familiar with and comfortable with, as we

1361
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 3: just you know, showed you now to have a really

1362
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 3: in depth and very stimulating conversation. If I may say so,

1363
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 3: I just you got my brain even going more and

1364
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: wanting more info. And with that said, are there any

1365
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 3: resources at the top of your head that you would recommend?

1366
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 3: And then also Celia, if people would like to reach

1367
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 3: out to you to maybe book a session, and I'll

1368
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 3: put this stuff in the description of our podcast episode

1369
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 3: as well. But if you learn to leave them with

1370
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 3: some of that information to go off of, I think

1371
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 3: that'd be fantastic.

1372
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: I think the biggest place or the best thing to

1373
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: have is the Mentalhealthhotline dot org if you you know,

1374
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: that's all you guys need to really have anyone who

1375
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: needs help, and the number is eight three three four

1376
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: five four three five one six. It's free. You'll get

1377
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: free immediate mental health support. So if you can start there. Also,

1378
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: you know, if you have insurance, please everyone remember that

1379
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: you you know, your insurance company will usually even if

1380
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 1: they don't cover it, they'll usually help you find a

1381
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: therapist if you need one. As John said, I do

1382
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: virtual so I actually work with people even in different

1383
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: countries because and so my schedule is very weird, and

1384
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: I give people an option officely, if you're in California,

1385
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: I have an office at home, so you know, people

1386
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: can come and work with me here, but otherwise I'll

1387
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: do zoom. And some people actually prefer the phone now

1388
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: no camera because they find it easier to cry and

1389
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: open up and to be totally honest, I talk to

1390
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: my own therapist on the phone for that exact reason.

1391
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: I have a tough time, shockingly, as you know, crying

1392
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: about my own stuff. Your stuff, I'll cry about my

1393
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: own stuff is a whole other secuation. And I do

1394
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 1: find it easier to open up. So you can find

1395
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: me online at the Celia Behar is my Instagram and

1396
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: then you can email me at I think I have

1397
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: it as Celia Beyhar Counseling at gmail dot com is

1398
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: what I believe it is. And yeah, I mean, I

1399
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: hope people reach out and I you know, it's funny.

1400
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, we're not talking about other shows,

1401
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: but just as therapy shows, if you know, if you

1402
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 1: guys watch Shrinking, I think Shrink doing a really nice

1403
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 1: job of making sure people realize like therapists are actually people.

1404
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be so daunting. I also really

1405
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: love the sort of fine line they walk with clients

1406
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: and boundaries and stuff, because I know I get attached

1407
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: to my clients and I'll go out of my way

1408
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: for clients and I used to really beat myself up

1409
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: about that, and then that show has made me feel

1410
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,959
Speaker 1: a lot better about it. So I do think these

1411
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: topics are great to talk about. And this has been

1412
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: so much fun because usually it's just me doing this

1413
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: in my house, you know, watching something and I'm just

1414
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 1: analyzing it. So to be able to like talk to

1415
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: people that are just as into it as I am

1416
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: is really you know, it's really fun and exciting, and

1417
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to, you know, keep going back to

1418
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: Rebels and.

1419
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 3: Watching that fantas. I love that so much. And thank

1420
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 3: you for sharing the resources. Once again, everybody, we'll put

1421
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 3: the in the description of the podcast here, so if

1422
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 3: you want to reach out to Celia through Instagram or

1423
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 3: through the email, we'll put all the information there for you.

1424
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 3: And yeah, but I think for now, like we're just

1425
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 3: going to say our goodbyes. But like I said at

1426
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 3: the beginning of the podcast, everybody, just because Mental Health Awareness

1427
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 3: Month is ending, that doesn't mean the awareness has to end.

1428
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 3: So if anything, I hope that again going back to Hope,

1429
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 3: rebelients and all that stuff, just hope that you take

1430
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 3: this information here for.

1431
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 2: What it is.

1432
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 3: This is not an official diagnosis to anybody. Again, if

1433
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 3: you need counseling, please like don't take this episode as

1434
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 3: official counseling.

1435
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 2: That's not what it was.

1436
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:13,360
Speaker 3: We were here to entertain, we were here to educate,

1437
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:17,799
Speaker 3: but were we not here to diagnose anybody. But luckily

1438
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 3: we had the licensed professional here you can reach out

1439
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 3: to should you want that counseling, but also mental health awareness.

1440
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 3: It's nice to have these ten pole events and these

1441
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 3: awareness months to centralize everybody's focus. But just know that

1442
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 3: awareness can happen all year round, three and six five days,

1443
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 3: year three and sixty six releap years, and hopefully this

1444
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 3: will be somewhat of a spark for that for some

1445
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 3: of you all to keep that awareness going. And now, Celia,

1446
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 3: Usually what we do to send up the podcast, we say,

1447
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 3: cue the music. So will you do the honors and

1448
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 3: give us our outro?

1449
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: Yes? Cue the music.

1450
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 3: Potter Rebellion is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts, produce

1451
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 3: and hosted by Nanssa Marshall, Tia Surkar, Taylor Gray and

1452
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 3: John may Brody, executive producer and in house star Wars

1453
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:08,679
Speaker 3: guru slash factchecker J. C. Reifenberg. Our music was composed

1454
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 3: by Mikey Flash. Our cover art was created by Neil

1455
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 3: Fraser of Neil Fraser Designs. Special thanks to Holly friand

1456
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 3: Aaron Kauffman over at iHeart, Evan Krasgori, William Morris Endeavor,

1457
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 3: Tresa Canobio, George Lucas for creating this universe we love

1458
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,839
Speaker 3: so much, and of course all of our amazing listeners.

1459
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 2: Follow us on

1460
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 3: Instagram at Potter Rebellion and email list at Potter Rebellion

1461
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:39,759
Speaker 3: Podcasts at gmail dot com