WEBVTT - Here's Why Some Economic Data Matters More Than Others (Anniversary)

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. Hello Stephen here, it's

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<v Speaker 1>been a year since we launched Here's Why, and in

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<v Speaker 1>that time we've brought you stories from around the world

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<v Speaker 1>about the global economy and how it's changing. To mark

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<v Speaker 1>our first birthday, we wanted to bring you one of

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<v Speaker 1>our favorite episodes with our global economics reporter, end a Current.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be back next week with a brand new episode.

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<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, enjoy, I'm Stephen Carol and this is

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<v Speaker 1>Here's Why, where we take one news story and explain

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<v Speaker 1>it in just a few minutes with our experts here

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<v Speaker 1>at Bloomberg. It's the lifeblood of the finance world, the

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<v Speaker 1>numbers that tell us about the state of the economy.

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<v Speaker 2>The August data was at least what in manufacturing PMI

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<v Speaker 2>it was disappointing.

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<v Speaker 1>Flash PMI survey data for JINE signals a slowing pace

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<v Speaker 1>of economic growth. The latest payrolls report coming in below

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<v Speaker 1>estimates US jubsdsa.

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<v Speaker 2>New data data data, data, data data.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a deluge of data available for major economies. But

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<v Speaker 1>to misquote George Orwell, some data is more equal than others.

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<v Speaker 1>Think about them many different ways that we measure inflation

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<v Speaker 1>or the labor market, job openings, job creation, unemployment all

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<v Speaker 1>tell you something different, and everything from economic growth to

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<v Speaker 1>purchasing manager index surveys can get significantly revised between the

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<v Speaker 1>first and last versions. So here's why some economic data

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<v Speaker 1>matters more than others. We'll also tell you how to

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<v Speaker 1>separate the signal from the noise. Joining me now is

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<v Speaker 1>our global economy reporter and a current and a great

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<v Speaker 1>to have you with us. You're a man who knows

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<v Speaker 1>your numbers. There's always this question of when we get data,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's telling us what was happening in the past

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<v Speaker 1>or what's happening right now, or giving us a hint

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<v Speaker 1>as to what's going to potentially happen in the future,

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<v Speaker 1>how do we attach different levels of importance to those timeframes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so some of the numbers we get are very

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<v Speaker 2>backward looking, like, for example, when you hear people talking

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<v Speaker 2>about GDP data on the news headlines, that's typically telling

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<v Speaker 2>you where the economy was maybe a quarter ago, So

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<v Speaker 2>in economic terms, that's kind of ancient history. Conditions can

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<v Speaker 2>change quickly. Economists like to talk about what they call

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<v Speaker 2>high frequency indicators, data points that are given more timely

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<v Speaker 2>read and what's happening and there. For example, you might

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<v Speaker 2>look at retail sales, retail spending on Main Street. That's

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<v Speaker 2>a good indicator of consumer confidence. You might keep an

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<v Speaker 2>eye also on what's going on with boring financing at

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<v Speaker 2>from banks. If banks are lending lots of money, that

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<v Speaker 2>suggests that there is animal spirits and a willingness to

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<v Speaker 2>invest out there by cuparts and maybe for would be

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<v Speaker 2>homeowners buy a home, that's a good signal. If you're

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<v Speaker 2>not lending money, then it suggests that perhaps things are

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<v Speaker 2>more subdued them you might have expected. So some of

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<v Speaker 2>the numbers, as you say, it can be quite backward looking.

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<v Speaker 2>It's better just to treat them as such. If you

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<v Speaker 2>want to timely read, keep an eye on the more

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<v Speaker 2>high frequency indicators.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean animal spirits. Depending on what kind of

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<v Speaker 1>animal you're thinking about, I suppose tells you different things

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<v Speaker 1>about it. How do we explain the contradictions that we

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes see in the numbers? Sometimes they don't make so

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<v Speaker 1>much sense lining up one against another. If we think

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<v Speaker 1>about an example of maybe inflation so.

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<v Speaker 2>Over the past few years. If you want to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the advanced economy world there's been the worst outbreak

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<v Speaker 2>of inflation in decades that impacted everyone's living standards, So

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<v Speaker 2>interest rates go up, and the cost of a mortgage

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<v Speaker 2>and alone go through the roof as a result. Now

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<v Speaker 2>we're in a phase whereby this inflation is well entrenched,

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<v Speaker 2>so the pace of inflation has slowed dramatically in many economies,

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<v Speaker 2>coming back to the area where central banks like to be.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good news story. But if you walk into

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<v Speaker 2>the shop having heard it on the news, headlinds, you're

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<v Speaker 2>still paying much higher prices than you wore only a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of years ago. So I think, say in the US,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, basket of groceries maybe twenty odd percent higher

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<v Speaker 2>than what they wore before the inflation crisis struck out.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's where you get into the difference between the

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<v Speaker 2>rate of inflation, which is what the economists measure every month,

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<v Speaker 2>versus the actual price level that you're paying in the store.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think there is a disconnected and confusion there.

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<v Speaker 2>People hear inflation's coming off, that doesn't mean prices are

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<v Speaker 2>coming down now. To be clear, for prices to come down,

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<v Speaker 2>that would need deflation, And when an economy is in deflation,

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<v Speaker 2>it typically suggests that it has some real problems going on.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a tricky one at the moment. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>tough pill for households to swallow. But we're at a

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<v Speaker 2>point where inflation is slow, but for prices to start

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<v Speaker 2>falling that would require something of a deeper shock to

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<v Speaker 2>the economy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and indeed, most of the conversations that you'll have

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<v Speaker 1>with people will be about how expensive things are consistently

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<v Speaker 1>rather necessarily how much they've gone up by. Another quirk

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<v Speaker 1>that we follow very closely here at Bloomberg is data revisions.

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<v Speaker 1>So we get sometimes several iterations of the same number.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do we see sometimes very big revisions in the data.

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<v Speaker 2>It's mostly because, as I say, a lot of these

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<v Speaker 2>readings are snapshots in time. They are incomplete. It might

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<v Speaker 2>be on a monthly basis, or maybe a quarterly basis,

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<v Speaker 2>and as the months of the year ago goes by,

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe after another year or so. The kind of

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<v Speaker 2>agencies whutalitates, the statistic agencies and the government economic agencies

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<v Speaker 2>put all the numbers together when they have a more

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<v Speaker 2>complete picture, and that's when they are able to say, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>we overstated something there, or we underestimated something there and

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<v Speaker 2>they make changes to what we're previously now. And so,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, the US employment data, and this is true

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<v Speaker 2>of employment data anywhere, can be subject to material revisions.

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<v Speaker 2>Which has had recent revisions to US jobs at it

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<v Speaker 2>whichhou suggest there were eight hundred thousand less jobs than

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<v Speaker 2>originally counted in the system. That speaks to a weekly

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<v Speaker 2>labor market than was broadly expected. Now the jobs market

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<v Speaker 2>still low kind in the US, but it goes to

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<v Speaker 2>show you that revisions can have a material impact.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and look, it also speaks to the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>getting the right data and data that is accurate, and revisions,

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<v Speaker 1>I suppose get us closer to what is a better

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<v Speaker 1>picture of what's going on in something like the jobs

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<v Speaker 1>market as well. There's an old joke about you put

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<v Speaker 1>ten economists in a room and you get eleven opinions.

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<v Speaker 1>How much can numbers be open to interpretation?

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<v Speaker 2>There is a degree of interpretation because it could suit

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<v Speaker 2>someone's investment thesis. They will want to read numbers whatever

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<v Speaker 2>way it is to back the argument they're making. Numbers

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<v Speaker 2>can be interpreted to meet somebody's political bias or political outlook.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, so when we had the recent interest rate

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<v Speaker 2>cut in the US, for example, you had one side

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<v Speaker 2>of politics here saying it shows that the inflation story

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<v Speaker 2>is under control and the FED is at a point

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<v Speaker 2>that work can bring down interest rates. That's good for

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<v Speaker 2>costs of living. But of course you had the other

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<v Speaker 2>side of the political a ide here making the point

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<v Speaker 2>that interest rates coming down because the economy is losing

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<v Speaker 2>jobs and the jobs market is weakning. So everything can

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<v Speaker 2>be interpreted in different ways, but ultimately, one of the

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<v Speaker 2>good things with economics is the numbers and the data

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<v Speaker 2>and the statistics do not lie.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you're looking for the most quality data or

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<v Speaker 1>the best things to look out for when you're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to assess numbers as they're being published, what are the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of things that you think about when you're trying

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<v Speaker 1>to parse what a certain number means to the economy.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to look for the numbers that really speak

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<v Speaker 2>to what's happening in both people's lives and in companies' lives.

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<v Speaker 2>So that would be figures around corporate investment, business investment.

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<v Speaker 2>What's happening there with companies. Have they got the confidence

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<v Speaker 2>to go out and expand and hire new staff, Then

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<v Speaker 2>obviously you have to keep an eye on what's happening

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<v Speaker 2>with household credit. Are people taking out mortgages to buy

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<v Speaker 2>a house or those who have a mortgage taking out

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<v Speaker 2>a loan to renovate the house. That speaks to, of

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<v Speaker 2>course confidence in terms of consumer confidence of those all

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<v Speaker 2>around us. And then of course you have the very

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<v Speaker 2>timely monthly or even quarterly readings in terms of inflation,

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<v Speaker 2>what is going on with the price that we're paying

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<v Speaker 2>for goods and services? I mentioned the jobs at earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>that's obviously a very critical one. And then all of

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<v Speaker 2>that creates the jigsaw that is known as a GDPGIC.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's backward looking, but it's a health check and

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<v Speaker 2>it tells you worth economy has been And.

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<v Speaker 1>You've covered economies all over the world for Bloomberg. I

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<v Speaker 1>wonder do you have a favorite piece of data? Is

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<v Speaker 1>there one that still you get excited about trying to

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<v Speaker 1>read into the details of well.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to get excited about. There was a phase

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<v Speaker 2>when satellite data on China was a big thing, especially

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<v Speaker 2>among hedge funds. Was popular that someone had the latest

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<v Speaker 2>satellite footage of some industrial expansion or development somewhere, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>some housing property site being developed, and they were claiming

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<v Speaker 2>that they were getting an early read and what's happening

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<v Speaker 2>in China's economy. But I think we've passed that phase now.

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<v Speaker 2>During the pandemic, there was a huge rush on high

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<v Speaker 2>frequency indicators, so people wanted to know what's happening with

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<v Speaker 2>cinema tickets, and what's happening with eating out, and what's

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<v Speaker 2>happening with.

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<v Speaker 1>Samwiches from press.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember that one all of this and usage of

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<v Speaker 2>the subways and truth, we're back to where we started.

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<v Speaker 2>We're looking at the official data that comes out of

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<v Speaker 2>the agencies, and people are keeping an eye on as

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<v Speaker 2>I mentioned earlier, spending data, keeping an eye lending data,

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<v Speaker 2>jobs data, inflation data. I think the satellites and SANDWIDG

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<v Speaker 2>indexes were all very interesting, but we've come back to

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<v Speaker 2>what we know and trust.

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<v Speaker 1>Most returned to the classics and the current. Our Global

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<v Speaker 1>Economy reporter, thanks very much for joining us for more

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<v Speaker 1>explanations like this from our team of twenty seven hundred

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<v Speaker 1>journalists and analysts around the world. World search for Quick

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<v Speaker 1>Take on the Bloomberg website or Bloomberg Business app. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen Carol. This is Here's why I'll be back next

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<v Speaker 1>week with more thanks for listening,