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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Oh it's it could happen here,

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Speaker 1: and it, by goodness, it continues to I'm Robert Evans. Um, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: my producer just noted to me that we should probably

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Speaker 1: uh introduce Sharene Lanna units since you've recently joined the

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Speaker 1: team and have been on several episodes, and we just

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Speaker 1: kind of rolled with it. Sharine, Wait wait wait wait

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Speaker 1: wait wait wait what are you? Who are you? Where

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Speaker 1: are you? When are you? Those are a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions as I can't answer. You are a frequent ghost

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Speaker 1: on guest Um your producer with I heart you're on

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Speaker 1: the show, ethnically ambiguous with Anna Hosnia and um you

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Speaker 1: are our our our bud, I am your bud, thank you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah joined published Yeah, poet a filmmaker a depressed person.

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Speaker 1: You know, I took all the boxes. U helped Sophie

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Speaker 1: bury that body the other year. That was between us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why we need to put that on Mike,

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Speaker 1: between you and lake Mead m Okay, Well everyone's going

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Speaker 1: to know where that body is, so you're gonna find

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Speaker 1: it soon anyway. But yeah, I it's really fun to

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Speaker 1: talk to you all. So it's nice that we can

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Speaker 1: record me doing it now for work. Cool. That's Is

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Speaker 1: that a good intro? Yeah, that is a good intro.

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to have sharing on our team. It's

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Speaker 1: uh something that we've been hoping that would happen for

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Speaker 1: a while now, and we just feel very fortunate to

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Speaker 1: have her voice as part of our as part of

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Speaker 1: our very tight knit group. And um, you're welcome, listeners, hucks.

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Speaker 1: I feel very honored to be a part of such

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Speaker 1: a small, tight knit group, especially because everyone I'm not

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Speaker 1: even saying this to Fish please, but everyone here is

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Speaker 1: much smarter than me, and so I've been learning a

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Speaker 1: lot and I don't do nearly as much research as

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Speaker 1: y'all do. So I hope to be the like a

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Speaker 1: a someone representing the audience that knows nothing, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, that's my role here is to

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Speaker 1: really give people, to let people be seen who have

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Speaker 1: their heads empty like mine. So representation matters. Well, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we had empty headed represented when I joined

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Speaker 1: the team. But fair enough, what are we? What is are?

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Speaker 1: Who are we today? What are we doing today? Where

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Speaker 1: are we today? Chris, you're the president of this episode?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, wait, that's bad. All right, so I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: I think I think I have to assassinate myself as

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Speaker 1: the way this works. But yeah, we're legally actually, yeah

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Speaker 1: that that I think next episode, I assassinate myself this episode,

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Speaker 1: I'd get on elected or something. But yeah, we're we're

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Speaker 1: we're talking about sort of two convergent paths of how

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Speaker 1: we got to like the most recent disaster but the

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Speaker 1: most recent well this isn't even the most recent disaster anymore,

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Speaker 1: but I how how how we got to the place

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Speaker 1: where review weade is about to die? And you know,

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Speaker 1: there's two threads. And tomorrow we'll be talking about the terrorism,

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Speaker 1: but today we'll be talking I say, we mostly we shoene,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, we're gonna be talking about how the sort

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Speaker 1: of like half a century long electoral movement that got

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Speaker 1: us to this place. Yeah, it's really interesting because I

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Speaker 1: mean some of it is self explanatory and some of

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Speaker 1: it isn't that I think interesting to go back in

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Speaker 1: time and really figure out how we got where we are.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's pretty obvious that like Republicans use

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Speaker 1: the abortion issue to forge coalitions with like right wing

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Speaker 1: and fundamentalist Christian voters, but Democrats are also using it

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Speaker 1: to attract woman voters, and it seems like neither party

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Speaker 1: will risk modifying the rigid position that it has for

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Speaker 1: fear of alienating those who the abortion issue has helped attract.

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Speaker 1: Because it feels like it's this just we're at a

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Speaker 1: stand still. It's not solvable. But it's actually when you

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Speaker 1: look at the history, it's pretty I don't know, it

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Speaker 1: kind of makes sense how we landed here. And every

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Speaker 1: presidential candidate or any kid in general will present these

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Speaker 1: countries issues with like a sense of urgency, especially this issue,

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Speaker 1: but it really feels like they're just using it to

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Speaker 1: attract voters and then it gets ignored. Um, but how

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Speaker 1: did how did how did abortion become a part of

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Speaker 1: an issue in America? The polarization of the parties on

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Speaker 1: this issue really started in the nineteen seventies and UM

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Speaker 1: party leaders just started moving farther and farther apart on

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Speaker 1: the issue. And a lot of scholars say that this

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Speaker 1: is a combination of like grassroots activism and also established

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Speaker 1: also just political strategy. So in nineteen seventies, UH, the

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Speaker 1: politicians used on abortion, it didn't break down on along

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Speaker 1: knee party lines. Republican president Gerald Ford, he opposed Roe v. Wade,

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Speaker 1: but the first lady was an abortion rights supporter, and

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Speaker 1: then his vice president Rockefeller, he presided over the repeal

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Speaker 1: of abortion restrictions in New York UM and UH. In Congress,

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Speaker 1: Republican Republicans voted against abortion about the same rate as Democrats,

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Speaker 1: So there wasn't a huge black and white, good evil

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Speaker 1: kind of thing going on UM. And it started to

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Speaker 1: change in the seventies. So during his presidential campaign in

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Speaker 1: seventy two, Nixon began striking out anti abortion position are

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Speaker 1: staking out anti abortion positions as part of a state

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Speaker 1: strategy to appeal to Catholic voters and other social conservatives,

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Speaker 1: and after he won with the majority of Catholic votes,

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Speaker 1: Republican strategists began using the same tactics in Congress, and

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Speaker 1: they were forging coalitions with evangelical groups around opposition to abortion.

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Speaker 1: And it was really the larger effort to make the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party painted as this like pro family to help

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Speaker 1: mobilize like socially conservative voters that really value this idea

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Speaker 1: of this like traditional and quotes family. So it might

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Speaker 1: have been both grassroots organizing, but I think both of

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Speaker 1: these efforts really focused around this idea of this traditional

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Speaker 1: quote unquote like Christian good family, um. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's still the a lot of the intention today is

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Speaker 1: to really promote that. And why abortion is wrong is

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Speaker 1: because it kind of goes against this idea of what

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Speaker 1: a family should look like or how families should act

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Speaker 1: like in particular how mother should act. Um. So yeah, thoughts, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I definitely think we see that um everywhere.

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Speaker 1: That type of propaganda, uh is you know there obviously

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Speaker 1: and then there in like the like oh this is

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Speaker 1: like hidden in type thing. But yeah, I mean Chris

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Speaker 1: has talked about that quite a bit on certain things.

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Speaker 1: So maybe Chris would be best to to deep dive

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Speaker 1: on that a little bit. Yeah, I mean I think

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Speaker 1: there's there's there's a there's a couple of things that

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Speaker 1: have been like like are perculating around this time too,

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Speaker 1: which is also like this is this is a period

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Speaker 1: of like really intense feminist monibilization. And this is also

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Speaker 1: a period where, you know, the one of the sort

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Speaker 1: of rights driving issues had been integration, like like a

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Speaker 1: opposing integration and like promoting segregation. And by this period

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Speaker 1: they've like they've basically lost that and so they need

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Speaker 1: like something right, and like that's something winds up being

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Speaker 1: this vision of this sort of like of this like

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Speaker 1: very specifically white Christian patriarchal family. And and I think

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Speaker 1: it's also interesting that, like, you know, if you look

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Speaker 1: at the initial abortion stuff is largely yeah, it's like okay,

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Speaker 1: if Republicans are targeting Catholics, right, And the reason they're

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Speaker 1: targeting Catholics because Evangelicals particularly like haven't quite figured out

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Speaker 1: what they think about this yet and this kind of

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Speaker 1: like family stuff and I don't know it ties into

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Speaker 1: this this whole sort of this attempt to get evangelicals

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Speaker 1: into politics for the first time or not to the

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Speaker 1: first time, but they've kind of been out of it

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Speaker 1: for a while like on this sort of like while

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Speaker 1: the rapture is coming, so like what's the point of

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Speaker 1: dealing with like this impire like secular politics thing. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: they get sort of roped back into it by the

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Speaker 1: polarization of abortion and by making like by by by

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Speaker 1: making abortion in the family this incredibly sort of central

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Speaker 1: part of what the Republican platform is, and by sort

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Speaker 1: of like you know, like attempting to destroy the kind

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Speaker 1: of like more moderate like Rockefeller liberal wing of the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party who just like get stomped don't exist anymore. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: that's a good point. And um, I think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because I feel like we see a lot of candidates

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Speaker 1: go back and forth and issues now, but it even started.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's been going on since forever because politics

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Speaker 1: are all scamp But Ronald Reagan really illustrates the shift.

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Speaker 1: Um because when he was a governor of California and

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Speaker 1: sixty seven he signed a law that loosened abortion restrictions.

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Speaker 1: But in his nine presidential campaign he called for the

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Speaker 1: appointment of anti abortion judges. So he's just really I mean,

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Speaker 1: just like any political candidate, he's going with the tides.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to get elected, he's not really no one

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Speaker 1: has actual morals that they stand on um, and only

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Speaker 1: after or nineteen doesn't show that more Democrats than Republicans

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Speaker 1: we're supporting access to abortion, because before then it was

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty much, even if not just a little bit,

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it was mainly honestly split over whether or

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Speaker 1: not you were fucking Catholic, right, Like that was the

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Speaker 1: primary determining factor. Yeah. Yeah, And I think that there's

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing there too, because a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's like the anti abortion people see Reagan as

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Speaker 1: like their guy, but he gets into office and he's

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Speaker 1: like not as strong on it as they wanted. And

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Speaker 1: well we'll get into some of what that leads to

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Speaker 1: next episode. But yeah, this this was like fundamentally, when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at like the anti abortion movement, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a Christian nationalist power grab. And at that point

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Speaker 1: they had just figured out the strategy. So it was

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Speaker 1: good enough that they were able to help get Reagan

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Speaker 1: into office, but it was not consolidated enough that Reagan

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Speaker 1: really felt the need to do much more than pay

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Speaker 1: it up service. You know. Yeah, We'll just an example

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Speaker 1: of everyone campaigning on something that they know, we'll get

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Speaker 1: them voted and then kind of ignoring it once they're

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Speaker 1: in office because like it served its purpose. Um, I

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Speaker 1: think there's there's another interesting thing that's going on here

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Speaker 1: with that too, which is that at this point, so

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Speaker 1: this is this is sort of the John of like

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Speaker 1: Jerry Farroll in the more Majority And Okay, if you

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Speaker 1: want to hear me talk about this for a really

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Speaker 1: long time, don't listen to my episode of the Moon

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Speaker 1: Eyes and how Reverend Moon also was a huge part

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Speaker 1: of this. But there's like this giant shift in like

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Speaker 1: the technology of recruiting voters where this this is where

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Speaker 1: you start getting mailing list organizing. This is where you

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Speaker 1: start getting like, you know, enormous list of people to

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Speaker 1: to call for fundraisers. Is where you start like you know,

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Speaker 1: this is where you start basically getting like the weird

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Speaker 1: Facebook letter like chain mail things that we have now,

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Speaker 1: but like they were just like mail people like scare

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Speaker 1: stories about like here's like an actual baby they planned

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Speaker 1: parenthood killed and that That's what I was saying by

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Speaker 1: like the obvious things propaganda wise, But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that it's also like things on TV, things in movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like uh yeah, they kind of try to pull out

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Speaker 1: the heart strings of some invisible heart they think people have. UM.

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Speaker 1: But then even like like TV commercials things that like

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Speaker 1: the traditional family that like, yeah, the nuclear white Christian

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Speaker 1: family is like the default basic family and anything that

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Speaker 1: strays from that is abnormal. Um, it's still the case now. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, calls for diversity or like putting a

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Speaker 1: black friend in the show still you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not really Yeah, I have eventually I will do

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Speaker 1: the entire rant that I have on this, but like,

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Speaker 1: like this, this is the thing that like this is

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Speaker 1: a powerful enough force that like, for example, if you

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Speaker 1: look at like every Asian American movie in the US,

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Speaker 1: the entire plot of every Asian American movie is trying

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Speaker 1: to repair is a family, like in an Asian family

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Speaker 1: trying to become the white Christian nuclear family but having

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Speaker 1: problems with it because they're having family issues that get

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Speaker 1: resolved and then having problems with it because they're Chinese. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's like it's it's just like warping sort of

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Speaker 1: like yeah, like structural basis of society that like it's

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Speaker 1: like a black hole that like like it tears the

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Speaker 1: fabric of reality and pulls everything else into it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I have the same gripe with a lot of there's

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Speaker 1: in general, like movies and TV shows about marginalized people

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Speaker 1: with a least from people. It always seems like the

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Speaker 1: crux of the problem is cultural and overcoming whatever issue

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Speaker 1: the culture is having to to disrupt this perfect white

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Speaker 1: Christian life that is presented as the ideal. But going

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Speaker 1: back to abortion, Sorry, no, don't, don't appologize. I would

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Speaker 1: love to rant about this with you on another episode.

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Speaker 1: You know what won't disrupt the white Christian hegemonic culture

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Speaker 1: in the United States capitalism the products as well. Actually,

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Speaker 1: it eventually will, because the nature of extractive capitalism, an

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Speaker 1: endless growth, will inevitably alter the world in ways that

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Speaker 1: makes the lifestyles that those kind of people harken back

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Speaker 1: to in their propaganda fundamentally untenable and impossible to exist

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Speaker 1: on any kind of scale. But I don't know what

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Speaker 1: my point was here. Here's some here's some fucking ads. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we're back, We're back. Let's go to the late eighties,

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Speaker 1: early nineties. So the ladies, both Republicans and Democrats at

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Speaker 1: this point, they were trying to appeal to the center

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Speaker 1: for a while so they can remain as appealing to

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Speaker 1: voters as possible. Um. Mary Zigler is a law professor

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Speaker 1: at Florida State University who has studied the history of

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Speaker 1: abortion and the abortion debate. And she wrote in the

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post that the ES and the early two thousands,

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Speaker 1: for instance, many abortion opponent and they devoted their energy

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Speaker 1: to supporting incremental restrictions like a ban on dilation or extraction,

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Speaker 1: which is a technique for abortions later in pregnancy that

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Speaker 1: opponents call partial birth abortion. UM. And this restriction was

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Speaker 1: eventually passed at the federal level in two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: and it's far less sweeping than the heart heartbeat bills

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Speaker 1: that many Republican voters favor today, which banned abortions as

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Speaker 1: you know at six weeks UM. But Democrats, meanwhile, they

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Speaker 1: were somewhat like equivocal on the abortion debate during this

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Speaker 1: time period. Uh. Bill Clinton in his campaign he famlessly

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Speaker 1: said that abortions should be quote safe, legal, and rare.

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton used the same language when she was running

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight too. Yeah, you really did,

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Speaker 1: just absolutely cowardly. Yeah, like we support it, but also

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Speaker 1: don't don't do it yeah like yeah. And obviously more

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Speaker 1: recently both sides of the abortion debate, they've come to

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Speaker 1: seek broader change. Among abortion rights supporters, there's been an

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Speaker 1: increasing awareness of reproductive justice. And this term was actually

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Speaker 1: coined in and it described an approach focus not just

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Speaker 1: on the legal right to abortion, but on safe, affordable

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Speaker 1: access to a range of reproductive health care as well

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Speaker 1: as the ability the ability to parent children safely. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it was in the nineties that a lot of

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Speaker 1: organizations started to be formed to help support this, to

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Speaker 1: help UH, abortion rights justice like kind of take form. Um.

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Speaker 1: Sister Song, which is the Women of Color Reproductive Justice

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Speaker 1: Collective was formed, and it was by sixteen organizations of

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Speaker 1: women of color that formed these four mini communities. They

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Speaker 1: were largely made up of Native American, African American, Latina,

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Speaker 1: and Asian American communities. And they recognize that we have

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Speaker 1: the right and responsibility to represent ourselves and our communities. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is important to note only because

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Speaker 1: I don't think women of color get enough credit for

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Speaker 1: really like leading the the the fight to get reproductive rights. UM.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of I mean, I can

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Speaker 1: shoot on white feminism all day, trust me, UM, but

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Speaker 1: especially when it comes to this, a lot of white

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Speaker 1: women are like heralded as like I don't know these

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Speaker 1: um political heroes, when really, most of the time, with

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Speaker 1: most issues when it comes to this, UH, women of

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Speaker 1: color in the background doing most of the work. UM.

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Speaker 1: That's another episode. UM. But Sister Song defines reproductive justice

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Speaker 1: as the human right to maintain personal bodily autonomy, have children,

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Speaker 1: not have children, and parent the children we do have

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Speaker 1: in safe and sustainable communities. So it puts a lens

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Speaker 1: on the emphasis of affordability of abortions as well as

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Speaker 1: on the legal status that it needs to have to

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Speaker 1: even be safe and affordable. UM. Because the right of

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Speaker 1: abortion means very little when we can't afford healthcare that

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Speaker 1: we need. UM. And this is something that Kimberly Inis

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Speaker 1: maguire said, she's the executive director of Unite for Reproductive

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Speaker 1: Gender Equity called URGE. UM. This isn't a rights group

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Speaker 1: focused on young people. UM. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that emerged during this more recent time that came

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Speaker 1: focused on more the justice aspect versus just the right

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Speaker 1: to have it, because it does doesn't do much if

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Speaker 1: we have the right, and yet um, it's still inaccessible.

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Speaker 1: So in the last five years, reproductive justice activists have

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Speaker 1: campaigned to repeal the High Amendment, which was first passed

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventies six, and it bars federal funding for

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Speaker 1: most abortions. It restricts Medicaid coverage for abortions, and the

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Speaker 1: amendment makes it difficult for many low income Americans to

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Speaker 1: pay for the procedure. The opponents of the High Amendment

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Speaker 1: have had some successes. In twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: Democrats and Congress introduced the Each E A. C. H.

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Speaker 1: Woman Act, which would repeal HIDE and allow Medicaid to

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Speaker 1: cover abortions. UM. But Democratic candidates have campaigned to repeal

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Speaker 1: HIDE as well. During her presidential run in Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 1: called for the repeal of HIDE, and the whole Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party followed suit. Um, which is something that would have

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Speaker 1: been unthinkable in the years when her and her husband

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Speaker 1: were calling for abortion to be quote unquote rare. So

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Speaker 1: things have progressed a little bit again, I think unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: though most of it is for following the trends versus

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Speaker 1: actual morals. But that's my opinion. UM. But on Hide, UM, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it feels like what has changed in the last five

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Speaker 1: years is that a community of people UM, led by

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Speaker 1: young people women of color, decided that the status quo

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Speaker 1: was not good enough. So again it's just people in

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Speaker 1: the background doing most of the work. UM. And at

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Speaker 1: same time, abortion rights activists have been working to reduce

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Speaker 1: stigma around abortion and to present the procedure as a

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Speaker 1: normal part of medical of medical coverage UM. In response

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Speaker 1: to efforts to strip federal funding from Planned Parenthood, activists

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Speaker 1: and ordinary people shared stories of their abortions under the

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Speaker 1: hashtag shout your Abortion. So the left party, the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: is definitely leaning now obviously to be abortion positive. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I also think it's definitely used as a way

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Speaker 1: to attract voters more than anything else. And UM yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean with our current president right now, we all

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Speaker 1: know he's Biden has had a mixed rested on abortion,

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Speaker 1: which is like very a good a good representation of

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Speaker 1: just how flip floppy politicians can be. Because when he

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Speaker 1: was in the Senate and seventy three, he was the

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Speaker 1: thirty year old practicing Catholic who concluded that the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court went too far on abortion rights in the Row case.

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Speaker 1: He told an interview or the following year that a

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Speaker 1: woman shouldn't have the soul right and say to what

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Speaker 1: should happen to her body. That's a quote, the soul

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Speaker 1: right to say what should happened to her body. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't think women should have that. And by the time

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Speaker 1: he left the Vice President's mansion in seventeen, he was

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Speaker 1: seventy four years old, and he argued a far different

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Speaker 1: view that government doesn't have the right to tell other

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Speaker 1: people that women can't control their body. Um. Which is

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Speaker 1: interesting because he not only was very vocal about being

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Speaker 1: anti abortion, but like he uh used like in he

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Speaker 1: crafted the Binded Amendment to ban the use of foreign

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Speaker 1: aid for biomedical research related to abortion. So he was

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Speaker 1: not only like vocal about it, he actually tried to

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Speaker 1: push it back. And he repeatedly voted for the Tide

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Speaker 1: Amendment that prohibited the use of federal funds for abortions,

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Speaker 1: including medicaid. As I said, and both of these policies

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Speaker 1: remain in place today despite efforts by Democrats to end

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Speaker 1: the ban on the use of federal funds. Here's one

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Speaker 1: thought that I have and again I I continue to

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Speaker 1: be an advocate and don't take this the wrong way.

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Speaker 1: We should learn from the right and how they made

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Speaker 1: the progress they did with abortion. There are lessons there,

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Speaker 1: and one of those lessons is that when you make

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Speaker 1: something into the kind of issue that can get a

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Speaker 1: politician elected, um, they will not actually pursue that issue

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Speaker 1: if it's difficult, unless you create true believers and put

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Speaker 1: them into politics. Right, Reagan got elected in part on abortion.

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Speaker 1: Reagan didn't really do much about it. It was it

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Speaker 1: was diligent periods of time of not just like putting

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Speaker 1: people in politics who believed in the cause, but also

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Speaker 1: of applying brutal pressure to elected leaders over decades who

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Speaker 1: didn't confirm, firm, or conform. And we don't have that

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Speaker 1: kind of time with like let's say climate change. But

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Speaker 1: the same basic tactics need to be followed, which is,

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Speaker 1: you need to be vicious when you when your leaders,

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Speaker 1: when the people you elect don't move on these issues, Um,

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Speaker 1: you need to be vicious and like a concerted and

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Speaker 1: organized and like you need to come down on them

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Speaker 1: like the hammer of fucking God. You know. I think

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Speaker 1: that's that's how you win. But I think that's the

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Speaker 1: biggest difference with Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats unfortunately

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Speaker 1: are far more cowardly in voicing what they want. Even

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Speaker 1: even now, Biden is pro abortion quote unquote, but he

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Speaker 1: hasn't even said the word abortion out loud ever. He's

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Speaker 1: like he put it in a statement in a tweet,

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's a website, there's a web there's

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Speaker 1: a website that is called has Biden said abortion yet?

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Speaker 1: And there's just a big no on it right now? Obviously. Um.

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Speaker 1: But he has like cast this evolution of his views

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Speaker 1: as a like like wrestling with his teaching of his

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Speaker 1: faith or whatever. Um. But it's obviously more it reflects

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Speaker 1: a political calculation more than his views of fucking religion. Um.

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Speaker 1: And in for example, he said, I'm prepared to accept

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Speaker 1: that at the moment that the athe moment of conception,

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Speaker 1: there's human life and being. But I'm not prepared to

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Speaker 1: say that to other god fearing non god fearing people

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Speaker 1: have a different view. Heard nothing do Caward Joseph Robinette,

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Speaker 1: motherfucking Biden? What risting fun does that mean? Yeah? He

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Speaker 1: also has quote has been quoted to say that this

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Speaker 1: issue is the um like the most difficult thing he's

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Speaker 1: had to wrestle with as a Catholic kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: He's definitely made it this. I think he needs to

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Speaker 1: overcome or whatever the ship. It's a religion, right, sure,

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Speaker 1: it's a religion, and your religion has been at the

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Speaker 1: very least. What I'll say about the Catholics is they

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Speaker 1: did not adopt this as like a venal political strategy,

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Speaker 1: which the evangelical right did, like they've been. The Catholic

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Speaker 1: Church has been consistent on this for a minute now,

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Speaker 1: So I get why somebody who is legitimately a believing

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Speaker 1: Catholic would have to struggle with this. But the way

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Speaker 1: you what what you what you say, if you're actually

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Speaker 1: not like a fucking if you're not being a fucking

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Speaker 1: goober about it, Um, what you say is, hey, uh,

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Speaker 1: this is tough for me because of my faith, But

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Speaker 1: this is the United States of America, and my faith

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Speaker 1: does not dictate what other people get to do. And

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Speaker 1: so I support the right to access to a portion

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Speaker 1: that's right. Please can? I mean, I only want to

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Speaker 1: bring that up because I just think the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: has conducted themselves in a really howardly way when it

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Speaker 1: comes to stuff like this versus Republicans are so outright,

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Speaker 1: even like volatilely trying to tell you how they feel.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that. Where do we go from here?

431
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um yeah, the world is the world.

432
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: It's certainly assuring. And uh, we'll be back tomorrow, Chris Water.

433
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: What's our focus tomorrow? Tomorrow we're going to look at

434
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: the other side of how they got abortion, other than

435
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: like sort of running it as an electoral issue, which

436
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: is they did a an amount of terrorism that is

437
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: so large that like most of the people talking about

438
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: the terrorism missed most of the terrorism. Yeah, it takes

439
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: a minute to list speaking of terrorism, I I just

440
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: wanted to Sorry, there is post role ads, but if

441
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: you're listening to them, that's a choice. Blood. Hey, we

442
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: always support people making the choice to listen to our

443
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: wonderful advertisers like the Washington State Highway Patrol and lately Taser.

444
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they've been running. Look we didn't. We don't

445
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: approve that. We're getting them removed. But it is funny.

446
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: Can I get a taser first? Or that is that?

447
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: Not what that is? Um? I mean, Sharine, we can

448
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: expense you with taser. Oh ship great, I'll send a

449
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: list of what I want perfect. Okay, fine, it happened here.

450
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: The thing that happened here was at anti abortion terrorism

451
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: at High and Christopher Wong. I'm posting this. We're doing

452
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: this really speedy with me, Sharne, Robert Garrison, and Sophie. Hi. Yeah, Hi,

453
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: don't feel too speedy. I mean this is a yeah,

454
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: we're we're we're going through the interests. We can get

455
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: to the we can get to the content fast. Get

456
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: to the meat. Yeah, let's get to the fucking meat.

457
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: Let's get to the sandwich portion of the I don't

458
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: know what I'm doing. We're talking about terrorism, Sophie, your

459
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: favorite thing first save the day. So okay, well, we've

460
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: we've talked about sort of abortion as a as a

461
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: legal issue, but running parallel to the sort of legal

462
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: electoral pain against abortion was a wave, a systemic campaign

463
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: of terror that ranged Trevor from you know, sort of

464
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: individual personal humiliation and terrorization of individual women seeking abortion

465
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,239
Speaker 1: to like nail bombs and blowing abortion provider's heads off

466
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: with shotguns. Um. Yeah, so it's it's extremely bad, obviously,

467
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: but I think there's a tendency among people who look

468
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 1: at antibustion violence is sort of like isolated from its

469
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: historical text, which is that, Okay, the American right has

470
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: always ruled by terror from like literally its earliest extermination

471
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: campaigns against addition as people who like whose land they

472
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: stole to, you know, the sort of horrific psychological abuse

473
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: and violence inflicted against slaves on their own plantation, who

474
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: there's an entire history of like denying abortion people to

475
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: slaves for numerous reasons. So you know, there's no reason

476
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: really to expect that anti abortion militants like wouldn't be violent.

477
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: And I think it's worth noting that that the tactics

478
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: of of the sort of militant wing of the anti

479
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: abortion movements, which are things like our arson bombings and

480
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: assassination are these these are the key tactics of the

481
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: of the segregationist movement when they're finding against integration and

482
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: you know, low and behold, like as as abortion becomes

483
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: the political glue for the right, after they sort of okay,

484
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: well they sort of lose the fight over integration, they

485
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: lose the ability to legally says like that you can't

486
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: do integration, but a lot of the sort of factors

487
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: aggregation like still exists. But yeah, like as I do

488
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: that like you still see you know, you see a

489
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: new generation of sort of right wing militants like taking

490
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: the tactics of the old right wing militants and using

491
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: them to kill people, which is to add, yeah, for

492
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: the for the record, yes that is our official position.

493
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: But we're taking up bold stands here radicals. So I

494
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: think we should start with someone who was not killing people,

495
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: because I think it's it's useful to see the sort

496
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: of like the arc of of how this movement goes.

497
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: So John O'Keefe was a Catholic anti war protester. He

498
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: his thing was okay, so he's anti abortion, right, but

499
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: he wants to fuse like the anti nuclear anti war

500
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: movements with the anti abortion movements sort of in the

501
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: wake of Roe v. Wade. And this doesn't work because

502
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: the anti war and the answer nuclear movements are like

503
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: driven by leftist and feminists and they're like no, like

504
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: funk Off, like we're not gonna like we want people

505
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: to have abortions, so you know, but but he he

506
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: he still is like dead set that there should be

507
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: this sort of like direct actually against abortion clinics. And

508
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: he managed to convince this convince this like quicker peace

509
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: activist named Charles Fager to like teach the anti abortion

510
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: movement the sort of like techniques of like the civil

511
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: rights movements and do like no violence ofilius obedience, and

512
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: so people like like in the in the early seventies,

513
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: like as az Row like is happening, people start like

514
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: changing themselves to abortion clinics, and you know, like, I

515
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: think this is if you've been around the left long enough,

516
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: like these are tactics I think you'd recognize. But these

517
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: these are very very different campaigns. Then you're sort of

518
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: like changing yourself to a tree like the And the

519
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: biggest difference is like the the extent to which the

520
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: focus is just purely on terrorizing people. So I'm going

521
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: to read a would have like what these protests actually

522
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: look like? Um from the book Living in the Crosshairs,

523
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: The Untold Stories of Anti Abortion Terrorism. The protesters stand

524
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: at the entrance to the clinics parking lot and badger

525
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: the patients. When they come in, they get screamed at.

526
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: The protesters write down their license plates, they send them cards,

527
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: they make phone calls to their homes. Protesters also swarm

528
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: clinics and harass the people who work there. Those window blinds. Christina,

529
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: who's works at a clinic, explained while pointing at the

530
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: huge windows that surround the conference table in one of

531
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: her clients. You pull them down, you can look through them,

532
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: and you could find the protesters at the windows looking in.

533
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: And Krista, who's the person who's talking about this, like

534
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: she describes like the like these protesters would walk up

535
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: to her and like say her kids names, you know.

536
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: In order to get like the doctor into this clinic

537
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: who is doing the abortions, like they have to smuggle

538
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: him in like that. He can't park in the parking

539
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: lot because the abortion protesters will get to him, so

540
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: they have to they have to like smuggle him in

541
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: in in Christa's car. And like even then people follow

542
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: them constantly, Like the doctors and nurses have to like

543
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: change the roots to work every day. They have these

544
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: like decoys they have to use. Um. Like yeah, and

545
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: if for the record, I've gotten reports from folks who

546
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: work for abortion access organizations saying they are now in

547
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: multiple states using drones to follow people as they leave

548
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: the Jesus their their license playing numbers. Yeah that God,

549
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: that makes sense. But it's yeah, like these people like Krista,

550
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 1: the person I was talking about, Like she she had

551
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: to transfer her kids to a private school that like

552
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: knew what her job was so that her kids wouldn't

553
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: get harassed. And like, well, we'll come back to this

554
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: sort of quote unquote non violent stuff later, but like

555
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: even in it's sort of like non violent face. This

556
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 1: is a terror campaign, like the the the goal of

557
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: this is to terrorize everyone involved, like stalking them, by

558
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: intimidating them, by harassing them, to get them to not

559
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: do abortions anymore, making patients or people that want to

560
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: wortion is too afraid to get them, and people that

561
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: provide them too afraid to provide them. Yeah. Yeah, and

562
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: but you know this doesn't really work in the seventies,

563
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: and but by time you shoot the eighties, it starts

564
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: to get really violent. Um in nice and eight two

565
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: or is this guy named Donnie Ben don Benny Anderson.

566
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: It is two nephews, Matt and Wayne Moore carry out

567
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: the first anti abortion, the first action of this this

568
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: right wig anti abortion. Also they're like really anti gay,

569
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: Like they they have a thing later on where they

570
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: like they have this giant celebration for like the Saudia's

571
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: beheading too gay dudes, three gay dudes, Like they're they're horrible. Yeah,

572
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: this this network is called the Army of God. And

573
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: oh these guys they're that sounds relier, Yeah, they're they're

574
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: this very actually in some ways like they're they were

575
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 1: very sort of quintessentially modern terrorist organization and that like

576
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: they don't they don't have like a command structure. It's

577
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: not even so much essentialized cells. It's just like people

578
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: just sort of can freely affiliate to it. And like

579
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: he used his name to carry out attacks. And the

580
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: first one of these is it's it's this guy Johnny

581
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: Benny Anderson. He kidnaps Dr Hector Zavalos and his wife

582
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: Jean and originally, like the their their plan is to

583
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: kill them, um don Benny Anderson like he but what

584
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: he writes about it is that he has been talking

585
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: to God and he has been talking to art Change,

586
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: to the archangel Michael, and they have commanded him to

587
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: go and kill this person. And eventually, like negotiators fortunately

588
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: are able to talk them down, and like the doctor

589
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: makes this like tells him like yeah, no, no no, I'm

590
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: not gonna do abortions anymore. That they let them go.

591
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think, like, like like it is important to

592
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: note that, like among people who are like this hardcore

593
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: and and this isn't you know, And I said, like,

594
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: there are people a lot of people who are more

595
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: moderate than this, Like the the whole sort of talking

596
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: to God thing like that is not uncommon. No, that

597
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: is like very good. No, these are all people who

598
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: in their churches will like say a bunch of gibberish

599
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: words and tell everyone each other that they're speaking in

600
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: like the secret language of God that God has like

601
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: speak into their brains, speaking in tongues. Yes, yeah, so

602
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: like and yeah, like and I think I think like

603
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: there's some tendency to like, like I've seen I've seen

604
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: people trying to write this office of people who are

605
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: mentally ill. It's like no, no, no, no, no no.

606
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: These are desearching, so they don't believe in a different

607
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: world than you do, and they're willing to use violence

608
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: to make their world real. Yeah, and the letter that

609
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: they write, I like, why while they're holding these people captives,

610
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: says quote, those who truly love God would kill the

611
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: baby killers. And it turned out later that they've been

612
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: funding their activities by robbing abortion clinics. And actually that's no,

613
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: that's the thing that doesn't that I don't think I've

614
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: ever seen any of the like, like I don't think

615
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: this doesn't get included in like the list of terrorist

616
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: things people do against abortion clinis. But they get robbed

617
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: a lot, Like there's like a lot of these builitians

618
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: are just robbing abortion clinics to to fund their stuff.

619
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: Um and and this is again like the thing you

620
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: have to keep in mind when you're trying to an

621
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: it like, if you literally believe the things that these

622
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: people literally believe, this is the only moral thing to do. Yeah,

623
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: if they're if there were just trying like getting their heads,

624
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: if there were an organization literally murdering babies every single day,

625
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: this would be the right thing to do. That's like

626
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: you have to actually like they're not crazy. They fundamentally

627
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 1: exist in a world that is as different from from

628
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: the one you live in as the world in a

629
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: fucking Marvel comic. Like it's it's it's just another reality

630
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: that they exist within. Yeah, and like you get sort

631
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: of like you get like like I don't know, you're

632
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: called like people who are trying to play the centrist

633
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: ango who were like oh, like people on the left

634
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: don't understand that. It's like it's not about autonomy for them.

635
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: They literally believe they're killing babies. And it's like that

636
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: doesn't like a no, but like yeah, like yeah, the

637
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 1: fact that they literally believe that abortion is killing children,

638
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: the only thing that does is make them more fanatical

639
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: and more militants. And it's like, yeah, like I used

640
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: to sort of believe, like I used to believe that, like, oh,

641
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: black people don' understand they really think they're killing babies thing.

642
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: And then I went to college and I like read

643
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: started reading about the history of genocides, and I started

644
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: reading about like what how how common it is for

645
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: people who commit genocides to literally believe that if they

646
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: don't do this genocide, that the people that genocide and you

647
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: you are going to kill them. And it was like oh,

648
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: oh no, no, that that actually that just makes you

649
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 1: more likely to do violence, Like it's and yeah, you know,

650
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: and this this goes exactly how to expect in fact

651
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: that the and this is one of the other things

652
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: that they're very effective about, which is each attack like

653
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 1: radicalizes more people to start doing attacks. So remember remember

654
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: John O'Keefe, the guy who was doing the non violent stuff,

655
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: Like he starts questioning whether non violence is like the

656
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: right tactic and he never like bombs anything, but he

657
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 1: likes stops condemning violence in public. And this this goes

658
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: really really really badly really quickly. Um, the Army of

659
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: God publishes this, like it's initially a very clandestine thing,

660
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: but they published this manual about how to attack abortion clinics,

661
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 1: but has stuff from like like pouring concrete overheating pipes,

662
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: how to make bombs. Um, they have this thing that

663
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: the antibortion people do a lot, which is pouring bucolic acid,

664
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: which smells like it is the thing that makes vomits

665
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: smell bad. Like you you can you can smell like

666
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: two parts per ten million like of this thing like

667
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 1: in a room and they'll they'll take like a syringe

668
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: and they'll inject it into a facility and like like

669
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: one drop of this stuff is enough that like you

670
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: can smell it like months later, there's no way to

671
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: like easily clean it. And eventually like they're pouring gallons

672
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: of this stuff like into abortion clinics into the ventilation system. Yeah, yeah,

673
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: it's there are more than a hundred of these attacks

674
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: today to like it. They've they've done this a lot. Yeah.

675
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: By n four, this whole thing goes into overdrive. UM,

676
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 1: I'm going to read a quote from from the book

677
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: Armored for Life, The Army of God and anti abortion terror.

678
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: In the United States, the National Abortion Federation identifies thirty

679
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: incidents of arson or bombing in nine four, exceeding the

680
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: previous seven years combined. The series of bombings included, but

681
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: was not limited to, the offices of the National Abortion

682
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: Fund and the Americans Civil Liberties Union in Washington, d C.

683
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: As well as abortion clinics in Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware.

684
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: The signature of the Army of God was also found

685
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: in a subsequent clinic bombing in Saratosa, Florida. Um. One

686
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: of the other things that they do that is that

687
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: is great, is so they have to have a declaration

688
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: of war that the Army of God sends. They also

689
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: like like specifically send a death threat to Harry Blackman,

690
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: who was the black Man was who was the guy

691
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: who wrote the Supreme Court justice who wrote Roe v. Wade,

692
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: which is like, you know, this is a fun thing

693
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: if you've been like the whole discourse cycle. But oh,

694
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: we shouldn't protest that these houses. Like yeah, man, a

695
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: terrorist group like threatened to kill the jestice who wrote

696
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: this thing, like and and that guy, um, the guy

697
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: who wrote that eventually carried out like this enormous bombing

698
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: campaign where he started strapping like twenty pounds like liquid

699
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: pro pain tanks to dumpowder bombs and blowing up clinics

700
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: with them. And this stuff spread start spreads like wildfire.

701
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: People start using the Army of God's bomb recipes to

702
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: attack clinics in other ways like yeah, we talked, We've

703
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: talked about so of the other campaign stuff that they use.

704
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: Um and and this this starts to like a lot

705
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: of the people who wind up in the full on

706
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: terrorism stuff where like people who used to be like

707
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: non violent protesters. So Shelley Shelley Shannon, who who had

708
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: previously been like a non violent protester like goes violent

709
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: and two and starts doing these like fautric acid attacks

710
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: and then she graduates to arson. She attacks seven clinics,

711
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: offices and health centers. And these aren't like when I

712
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: say attacks, like this isn't like they threw a ball

713
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: off at it. Like she is making napalm and like

714
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: detonating napalm bombs like inside of these clinics, it is,

715
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 1: do they even care if people are inside or so?

716
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: It's weird. Initially they're they're targeting empty buildings, but they're

717
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: like they're like working themselves up to it, and like

718
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: they they start to be they you could read this

719
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: in their writing like they they're working themselves up to

720
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: a point where they're like, Wow, Okay, if there was

721
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: a person in this building, we don't really care, and yeah, yeah,

722
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: and but I see two the Army of God like

723
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: specifically in it in its manual, like as justification for

724
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: killing people, m and lo and behold. One year later

725
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: after this is one of the other strategies to use

726
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: what what what What was their justification they're killing It's like, well,

727
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: they're killing babies and have to have a bunch of

728
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: Bible verses that they sit and they're like, now we

729
00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: can kill people because they're killing babies. It's great. It's

730
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: that's that's truly like in writing to horrify. Yeah, and

731
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: like like literally the next year there's all these they

732
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: start doing this thing where they put wanted posters with

733
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: like an abortion doctor's name in them like like literally

734
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: like stuff out of like a like a Battled West movie,

735
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: and they'll have like their name and like where they

736
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: live and like that fact that they're a doctor and

737
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: say they kill babies, and uh so you know, in

738
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: in in in in three, these posters go up for

739
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: this doctor named Dr David Gunn and he's one day

740
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: walking back to his car when he gets shot three

741
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: times in the back by Michael Griffin and he he dies,

742
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: and he is the first that David Gunn is the

743
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: first abortion provider to be killed, and he is not

744
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: going to be the last. Yeah, so this immediately and

745
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: the moment someone does it, like it opens the floodgates

746
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: and suddenly everyone is doing it. And so you know,

747
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 1: this makes people like Shelly Shannon and who we talked

748
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: about like setting off napalm bombs, who until this point

749
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: has only like bombed anti buildings, Like she starts like

750
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: considering killing people and a few months later she shoots

751
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: Dr George Tiller. And if you're thinking to yourself, hold

752
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: on weight, I thought Dr George Tiller was killed in

753
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine and not, you are right. Shelley's

754
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: assassination attempts like she shot him like in both arms,

755
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: but he survived to be murdered a a decade and

756
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 1: a half later. Um, Meanwhile, there's this guy named Paul

757
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: Hill who's just like a like abortion clinic like protester, right.

758
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: He he emerges in like the national media scene because

759
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: he's he's like the he's like the guy who will

760
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: go on TV and defends Michael Griffin killing killing a doctor,

761
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: and they just let him do this. He does the

762
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: whole fucking talk show circuits. They just let him do

763
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: this to defend on Life TV. He's on all of

764
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: the mainstream networks to defend killing abortion doctors. And he

765
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: does it again with Shelly Shannon's attempt to kill George Chiller.

766
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: And a year later, uh, Paul Hill walked up to

767
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: Dr Joe Britten Britten and blew his head off with

768
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: the shotgun wounds. His wife turns around and then killed

769
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: an abortion uh like at clinic escort named James Barrett.

770
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,479
Speaker 1: Like they had this guy on TV fucking every night

771
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 1: saying that like calling the saying that killing abortion doctors

772
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: is justified, and then he fucking kills he blew an

773
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: abortion doctor's head off with a shotgun the next year. Well,

774
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: and uh yet I don't think I'm what's exciting is

775
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: that I'm sure that when there are more attacks uh

776
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: by pro choice oriented people, at no point will anyone

777
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: get brought on TV network to say anything. But but

778
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 1: asked that cops get more money to crack down on them. Yeah,

779
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,959
Speaker 1: it's like just the media a symmetry. She was awful.

780
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about this more in a bit because

781
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: it gets even worse. Um So that that's a year.

782
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: In ninety four, there's a gunman named John Scali the

783
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 1: Third who walks into a building and murders Shannon Loney,

784
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: who is a social worker in anti abortion like she's

785
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: she's an anti abortion and an anti child debrief advocate

786
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: who's working at Plant Parenthood, and he just walks and

787
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: shoots her. She shoots at a bunch of the doctors

788
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: and the patients and luckily they all survived. But then

789
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: he goes to another clinic and he kills social worker

790
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 1: Leanne Nichols, who was like working at the front desk there,

791
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: and he's eventually arrested. He gets away with both of

792
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: these ones, but then he goes and tries to shoot

793
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: up a third clinic, and that one finally like he

794
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: gets arrested for. But like and the other thing is

795
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: like the third clinic that he shoots at, Like that's

796
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: a clink that already had already been bombed, is a

797
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: clink that they've been protest that for years. And he's

798
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: you know, he goes there and he shoots at these

799
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: these people and he kills two more people, and yeah,

800
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: and it's you know, and they just like keep doing this.

801
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: And one of the sort of incredibly grotesque things is

802
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: that like, Okay, so the Army of God has this.

803
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: They have a website, right, and their website has these

804
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 1: these things they called the Prisoners of Christ, who are

805
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: like people who are like it's like prisoners of conscience

806
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: but like Christ, who they like celebrate and they're like

807
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: raise funds for. And one of the ways they do

808
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: this is they have this thing called the White Rose Banquet,

809
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: which is like one of the most offensive names I've

810
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: ever seen for an organization. That's it's named after the

811
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: White Rose Society, which is just like Christian anti Nazi

812
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: like nonviolent resistance group who's like leaders were all killed

813
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: by Hitler for opposing Hitler. And they they're thing is like, well, okay,

814
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: so the abortion is the is the new Holocaust, and

815
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: so you know they have this banquet that's like in

816
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: support of these terrorists and they at the first one

817
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: of these, they released this thing called the Nuremberg File Project,

818
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: which was this like it was this archive of like

819
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: abortion providers. It has like their names, has their addresses

820
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: as photos, it has their phone numbers. Um. They target

821
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: like they and it's not just like doctors, right, they

822
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: target clinic staff, the target security guards, stark at anyone

823
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: who's who's around there, and that they have like these

824
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: like lists of different categories of people. So first, if

825
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: you're still alive, your name will be in like bolded black.

826
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: If you've been wounded, your name will be grade like

827
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: great out. And then if you die, there's like if

828
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: you get killed or you die, there's a strike through

829
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: through it. So this is this is a killed list

830
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 1: they've assembled. And this is just like going around the internet.

831
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: There's enormous numbers of people who like providers who are

832
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: who are put on this and they also like the

833
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: White Rose siety, Like at this banker, they start putting

834
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: out wanted posters with like a thousand dollar rewards for

835
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: closing a clinic and for like convincing a doctor to

836
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: stop giving abortions. And because these people are just like

837
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: like I can on emphasis is enough like literal monsters

838
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: in the night. The auction off the gun that Shelly

839
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: Shannon used to kill George Chiller, that's like a fundraising thing. Yeah,

840
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: and uh, there's a number of things you think about that.

841
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,479
Speaker 1: One of that is one of them is the fact

842
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: that the local police department absolutely had to be um

843
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: involved in that because normally murder weapons don't go back

844
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: anyone that they're destroyed, um, which means the police were like, yeah,

845
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: we absolutely want you guys to be able to auction

846
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: this gun on cool stuff. The fear tactics they would

847
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: be like, of course they would work if your whole

848
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: if your name is on this list and you have

849
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: a family and you you know what I mean, Like

850
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: it's I will say that there is an interesting thing

851
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: with this where like a lot of some of a

852
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: lot of people who like get targeted by this stuff,

853
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: like it just pisces them off and they get even

854
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: more committed to it, which is like incredibly rad but

855
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: also like Jesus Christ, they just they have these abortion

856
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: provider kill lists, and people on this list get killed.

857
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: It's encouraged, like the people are encouraging to kill them.

858
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: And like they do this in the open, like there

859
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 1: are like literally like Christian radio stations will like they

860
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: will be they'll they'll do this thing where like they'll

861
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: they'll they'll start listing like like like by name and

862
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: the addresses of like where the abortion providers dear them

863
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: are and then start talking about the biblical verses to

864
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: justify killing them. And then they will literally say on

865
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: the radio, go kill this person. And they could just

866
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: do this. No one stopped them ever. They just got

867
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: away with this for for decades and decades. So one

868
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: of one of the other. I think this bombing is famous,

869
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 1: but I don't think the reason why it happened is famous.

870
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: Um so there's a guy Eric Rudolph. Oh yeah, it

871
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: was was wondering whenday we're gonna talk about Rudolf? Yeah yeah,

872
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: so that's right now. So so Eric Rudolph is most

873
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: famous for nail bombing the Atlanta Olympics. He yeah, he

874
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 1: put he was hundreds of peace yeah, yeah, he entered people,

875
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: he kills killing killed one. Yeah, it was more Special

876
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: Forces guy, right, yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, And he says

877
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: that his commander and the ar Assault Regiment taught him

878
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: how to make bombs like out of out of like

879
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: scrap stuff. So he like yeah, so so okay, so

880
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 1: and he does in nine ninety six, he doesn't get caught,

881
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: right this this this guy, this guy detonated a nail

882
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: bomb at the fucking Olympics. As that a year later. Oh,

883
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: don't worry, we're gonna We're gonna a year later. This

884
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: twice next year. The next year he sets off a

885
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: bunch of bombs, and he sets off a bomb at

886
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: an abortion clinic. And this is like this, this is

887
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: a double tap bomb. There is a there is a

888
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: bomb in a trash can behind that that's that's designed

889
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: to kill the first responders. Um, this is seven people.

890
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: And then in seven and it kills the police officer.

891
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: Actually it doesn't, Oh I didn't, but yeah, kills the

892
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: police officer. Yeah. And then like the next one, he

893
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: bombs in Atlanta nightclub and win six people. I'm sorry specifically, yeah,

894
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: he bombed, he bombs, I bought, he bombs a gay bar.

895
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: Um and there were that one he also like in

896
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: the adjacent parking lot, because again he was trying to

897
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 1: kill the first responders that the police find a bomb

898
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: and defuse it before it can go off. And again

899
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 1: they still don't get this guy the not until two

900
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: thousand three. The next year, he bombs another rebortion clinic

901
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 1: with a nail bomb. In this kind just good time,

902
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: he kills a security guard named Robert Sanderson, and like

903
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: permanently injures a nurse name Emi Leon's, who was like

904
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: Emily Leon's who was he was left like half blind

905
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: and like permanently made by the fact that again he

906
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: set off a fucking nail bomb and he was not caught.

907
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: He he was not he was not caught for a while. Yeah,

908
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: And I want to stop here and talk about like

909
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: how the bombing stuff has carried in the media, right, um,

910
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: as best I could tell, and I went to look

911
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: for this. No anarchist has killed someone with a bomb

912
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 1: in the US for a hundred years. Like Coral Marx

913
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: was closer to seeing the moon landing, then a baby

914
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: born today is of seeing an anarchist kill someone THEOS

915
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: with the bomb. And yet anarchism everywhere is so constantly

916
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: associated with bombs. Meanwhile, the anti abortion freaks. Fucking they

917
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: bombed the nineties six Olympics with a nail bomb. And

918
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 1: he on when he was in his trial, he released

919
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: to benifesto talking about how deadly force is justified against

920
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: people who operate abortion clinics. He talks, he talks about

921
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: the whole a whole munch of like whole bunch of

922
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: anti gay stuff, whole bunch of anti abortion stuff, like

923
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: and he's like he's given them like like on his

924
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 1: trial just used to like read his manifesto. It's pretty

925
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: it's pretty wild. Where all the pro life activists when

926
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: it comes to taking life. That's interesting. Well, but I

927
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: mean that's that's the thing though. They're all they're all

928
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 1: in favor of of like they see, Yeah, they're arguing

929
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: that it's self defense or it's defensive. These these these

930
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: babism not the well defensive, those who can't defend themselves.

931
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: What they'll talk about it is entirely within them, the

932
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: moral universe within they operate. It's it is entirely consistent.

933
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: It's one of those things. Whenever like liberals will be like,

934
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: why don't they do this or why don't they that's

935
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 1: not pro life and it's like, well, because the word

936
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: doesn't mean the same thing to you, it does well,

937
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: and the guy's doing this terror because you will occasionally

938
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: you'll get some I mean, some of the pro life

939
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: people oppose this because I think it's bad optics, right,

940
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: But apparently it's not bad optics because again, like, who

941
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: are the people who get fucking remembered as bombers? Like,

942
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: and I want to I want to read a quote

943
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: from from the FBI. This is this is this is

944
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: from from the book Armed for Life. In In nineteen

945
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: eighty four, the year with the highest abortion clinic bombings

946
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: to date, FBI Director William Webster went on television and

947
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: informed the public, quote, Bombing a bank or a post

948
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: office is terrorism. Bombing an abortion clinic is not an

949
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: active terrorism because the objective is social. Is social and

950
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: anti abortion violence, and I don't believe it currently meets

951
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: our definition of terrorism. Reagan's called Reagan called the anti

952
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: abortion it's worse, okay, Reagan called called the bombings. The

953
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: abortion clinic bombing is quote anarchist activities, Like the fucking

954
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: they are blowing up abortion clinics and we're still getting

955
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 1: fucking blamed for it, Like Jesus Christ. I don't know

956
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: a lot about anything, and so this is a lot

957
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: of this is used to me, which is wild that

958
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm hearing about a lot of this for the first time.

959
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 1: How have I not known about this? They bombed the

960
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: Olympics and know what talks about it? Actually, like I

961
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,959
Speaker 1: was just losing my mind the whold like it's it's

962
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: bad and it's it's still happening. It's not. It's just

963
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: like three people were killed and nine people were injured

964
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: an attacked on a planned parenthood clinic in Colorado. Back

965
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: in um there has been over at least at least

966
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 1: at least eleven murders tied to anti abortion uh like

967
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: like action. I guess six attempted murders, at least forty

968
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: two bombings, two hundred arsons, and then thousands and thousands

969
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: of more like assaults and random random incidents. We should

970
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 1: also point out here when we're talking about the murder counts,

971
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: murder count is lower vet it actually is because the

972
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: murder count doesn't count to people who like the Americans,

973
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: like specifically the Americans who went to Canada to shoot

974
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: abortion doctors and the Americans who went to Australia to

975
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: shoot abortion doctors, both of which happened, and threats against

976
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: abortion providers have increased exponentially just since just since, like

977
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: they have more than quadrupled, Like this is it's constant.

978
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: It's been escalating at such a at such a rate

979
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: that every year's data is insufficient for talking about the

980
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: current period. Like it's it's you can't you can't even

981
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: talk about it because all of the data is so inaccurate. Now,

982
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: that's how fast this stuff is accelerating. And and like

983
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: there's there's a few other things that like like we

984
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: should mention when we talked about statistics. So one of

985
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: the reason is the reason the death toll is like

986
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 1: quote unquote only eleven is because bomb making is really

987
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: hard and a lot of these bombs don't go off.

988
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: So for example, in Canada, a worker right a clinic

989
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: discovered a bomb with two pounds of nails in it

990
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: that quote how to destructive capability of a hundred feet

991
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: um and you know, and also like I should put

992
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: this out like okay, so like they they there's a

993
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: lot of abortion doctors who are killed like outside of

994
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: their clinics. But also there's a guy named James Copp

995
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: who who shot He shot like four doctors and he

996
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 1: shot them like in their homes like with with with

997
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: with an s KS, like in their homes through their windows.

998
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: And he he killed Dr Barrett Slippian in the nineties

999
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: and like and you know and like it. They like

1000
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 1: they keep doing stuff like this, Like in two thousand

1001
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: and one. I don't know if I wonder how many

1002
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: people actually remember this. Uh, there was this huge anthrax scare.

1003
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: What was an anthwstor like that people were like they

1004
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: were later they were anthract attacks. People were like mailing

1005
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: people letters with anthrax in it. And so right as

1006
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: this is happening, um, a guy named Clay Wagner since

1007
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: eight hundred letters signed by the RB of God with

1008
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: fake anthrax, the plan players heard clinics in seventeen states

1009
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: and these antis packets like it's not just like flower, right,

1010
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: these antis packets have BT in it, which is there's

1011
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: a pesticide that is so similar to anthrax at the

1012
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: package just texted tested positive. And so all of these people,

1013
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: these eight eight hundred clinics who opened these letters like

1014
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: thought they were going to die because they opened they

1015
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: opened a letter. There was White Potter in it it

1016
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: said it was anthrax, and then it tested positive for anthrax.

1017
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: And like to this day, a bunch of abortion clinics

1018
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: like have like like the when when they're like when

1019
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: they open their mail, they have they have like a

1020
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: special room that is like sealed off so that if

1021
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: they open the mail, they open a chemical weapon. Only

1022
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: the person reading the mail will die. Great, that's the

1023
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: side of a good system. Yeah. They also a lot

1024
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: of planned parenthoods have something kind of similar set up

1025
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: with the receptionist, where basically the way it's set up

1026
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: is that if there's a mass shooter, the receptionist can

1027
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: like seal off everyone but them. Yeah, it's like a

1028
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: thing that you know you're getting into if you're in

1029
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: a plant, if you if you're in that gig, it's

1030
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: like someone might come in and I might have to

1031
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,959
Speaker 1: die to try and stop them from getting to everyone else.

1032
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: It's it's bad. I mean, just just from there was

1033
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: a hundred increase in reports of assaults and batteries uh

1034
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: inside and outside clinics. Um there was double the amount

1035
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: of death threats from and things have not gotten better since.

1036
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: So we're just waiting for all that new data to

1037
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: come in because oh boy, Yeah. And I think there's

1038
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: another thing when we need to keep in mind with

1039
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: this data is that there's so much stuff doesn't get reported.

1040
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: All of those numbers are low, every single one of

1041
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: them is normally low. And there was a bunch of

1042
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: other stuff that is people do that just never gets

1043
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: talked about. Um, well, okay, so I think before we

1044
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: get into that, I do want to talk about the

1045
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: most famous abortion provider who got murdered, which is Dr

1046
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: George Tiller, who is like a genuinely incredibly heroic figure

1047
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 1: who he was keep doing it after the first time

1048
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: you were shot, Like you would be a hero if

1049
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: you did it up until you got shot. Going after

1050
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 1: like he got shot. He's a clinic got bombed. There

1051
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: was an entire Yeah he's clinic up bomb What was

1052
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: the other one? Yeah, he he was, he was one

1053
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: of the he was I think he was actually I

1054
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: don't know if it was that anthrax threat or like

1055
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: a different anthrax threat, but like people people like he

1056
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: kept getting anthrax threats. Um that there was this thing

1057
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: called Operation Rescue, which is I guess that there's still

1058
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: version of us around, but they are these like they

1059
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: do these like giant like non violent severe disit obedience

1060
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: campaigns were like thousands of people will will will will

1061
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: show up to a place and they'll like change themselves

1062
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: the buildings, and they'll like prevent anyone from getting in,

1063
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: and they'll like terrorize everyone around there. And his office

1064
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: is one of the is one of the ones that

1065
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: was targeted NET ninety one, which is like in there

1066
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: like that they had this big campaign called Operation Rescue.

1067
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: It was targeting like him specifically. And there is one

1068
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: fun story in this which is they tried this in

1069
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: Minneapolis next ninety three, but they got their as escape

1070
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: by a bunch of anarchists and had to all run away,

1071
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: which was extremely funny. But yeah, like I'm the The

1072
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: other thing that that's important with with Tiller specifically is

1073
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: the extent to which the right wing media is like

1074
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: like culpable in this um like Tiller, like Bill O'Reilly specifically,

1075
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: is constantly yelling about Tiller. He calls Tiller the baby killer.

1076
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: He uses him of running a a operating a death mill,

1077
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: executing baby is about to be born, and destroying fetuses

1078
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: for just about any reason right up until birthdate. H

1079
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: he want one of his rants, he he literally says

1080
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: like right before, well not like pretty close to when

1081
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: Tiller has assassinated. Uh quote, if I could get my

1082
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,919
Speaker 1: hands on Tiller, well you know, can't be vigilantes, can't

1083
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: do that. It's just a figure of speech. But despicable.

1084
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it doesn't get worse? Does it get worse? No? Wow?

1085
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: So he's just like this is just like the ship

1086
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: that that he's that that he's being subjected to by

1087
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: the media. And then oh lo and behold he gets murdered.

1088
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: You know what, doesn't I don't know, I have nothing

1089
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: to say. Doesn't do uh coordinated you know what would

1090
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: be dope. Here here's what I'll say. You know, it

1091
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: would be dope if when somebody came to shoot George

1092
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: Tiller that person had gotten a shot repeatedly. That would

1093
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: have been cool. M that would have been neat. But anyway,

1094
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: here's ads and we're back with more horrifying stuff. Um. Yeah,

1095
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of focus I think, you know,

1096
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of media coverage recently about this

1097
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: just because like you know, as as a reaction to

1098
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: the incredibly bad faith like, oh, look at the sanctity

1099
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: of of people protesting at the Supreme Court. It's like

1100
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: they blew people's heads office shotguns. But you know, and

1101
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: like that's good, and I'm really glad there's there's more

1102
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: media reporting about this. But I want to talk about

1103
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's an incredible focus here on the

1104
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: shootings and bombings, and like there's good reason for that,

1105
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about some other ship that

1106
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,959
Speaker 1: the force birth fanatics do because it's horrifying. It doesn't

1107
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: get talked enough about enough. Um. So, one of the

1108
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,919
Speaker 1: people who gets interviewed in Living in the cross Hairs,

1109
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: which is a great book by the way, it's it's

1110
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: about I mean, okay, I don't agree with all of

1111
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: its policy recommendations, but it's a book like interviewing like

1112
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: abortion providers about their experiences. One of the people they

1113
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: interview is this guy named Rodney Smith, who's an abortion doctor. Um,

1114
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna eat the stuff that they do

1115
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: to this guy because it's okay, So protesters show up

1116
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: to his son's wedding. Um, they burn his house and

1117
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:15,479
Speaker 1: his farm down, They burns to death, They kill their dog,

1118
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: their cats, and all of their possessions. Yeah. From the book,

1119
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: help Kill Babies can you tell me that the cats, Yeah,

1120
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: we will imagine script did this. Yeah, everyone would lose

1121
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: their minds. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read a

1122
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: quote about this from this book. Someone mailed a letter

1123
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 1: postmarked the morning of the fire justifying killing the animals

1124
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: on Rodney's farm because Rodney quote murdered little children. However,

1125
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: the letter was untraceable. Wow. They do this ship all

1126
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: the fucking time, and it never gets reported. Because the

1127
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: reason never gets reported is because when when, when, when

1128
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: this this the city comes to investigate, They fucking destroyed

1129
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: the entire scene of the crime. They showed the entire

1130
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: scene of the crime so thoroughly that when the fire

1131
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: marshal showed up the day after, they tried to arrest um.

1132
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: They tried to arrest Rodney Smith Smith for evidence tampering

1133
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: because I thought that he had done it right. Yeah,

1134
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Wow. And and let's less lest you

1135
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: think this is the end of the ship. That that

1136
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: that that this guy goes through, right, Like they when

1137
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 1: they find out he's like going to like a conference,

1138
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: or like they find out he's staying in a hotel.

1139
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: That they do these campaigns where like they'll they'll do

1140
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: these mass columns to the hotel saying, hey, there's this

1141
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: person here, and if you don't kick them out, like

1142
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: we're going to protest all your branches. He get kicked

1143
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: out of hotels. Um, he gets attacked by an anti

1144
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: abortion protester in the chambers of the Supreme Court, like

1145
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: that Supreme Court, the big one. How did they even

1146
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: get in the two the chambers of the Supreme Court.

1147
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: He was just one of it was one of the

1148
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: people who was showing up at this thing, and that

1149
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: the guy like throws him out of his chair, grabs him,

1150
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 1: throws him out of his chair, picks up the chair

1151
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: and starts beating the ship out of him reach his

1152
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: own chair in this is indie chambers of the Supreme courts.

1153
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: They beat an abortion doctor with his own chair. And

1154
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, especially Roddy had had security with him, right

1155
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: because I you know it. It's yeah, when when you're

1156
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 1: abortion doctor and and people are this target at you, yeah,

1157
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: you have security so you don't get attacked like this.

1158
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: But the court wouldn't let him like bring his private

1159
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: security inside. And their rationalization was, uh, he he had

1160
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: been assured that quote nothing ever happens in the Supreme Court.

1161
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: And the thing about this, right, you cannot find a

1162
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: news article about this. Right, a guy got beat up

1163
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 1: by these people in the Supreme Court. If literally anyone

1164
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: who was not a fucking forced birth anti abortion fanatic

1165
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: did this, there would have been a new cycle that

1166
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: would have lasted until the fucking end of time. There

1167
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 1: have been a movie and and three shows made about it. Yeah,

1168
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: and there's just nothing well like wild like that is

1169
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: really showing like these things don't get These things aren't

1170
01:05:55,520 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: big problems, right because they aren't challenging to any kind

1171
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: of power structure. So they're allowed to happen because they're

1172
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: just reinforcing things. They're not actually challenging things. Um. But

1173
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: still it's very brazen. When you're killing like seventeen horses

1174
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: and going into the Supreme Court to beat someone with

1175
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: a chair, you would think that someone would say something. Um.

1176
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: And I've never heard of this before either, Alley gear.

1177
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: I know, this is like the thing the thing I

1178
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 1: want to emphasize about this. This is the things they

1179
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: did to one guy, one doctor. This is happening, This

1180
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: is right, Like this stuff, this kind of stuff is

1181
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: happening to people every fucking day across the country, and

1182
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 1: there is nothing. There is jack shit. You might maybe

1183
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: see a report in local papers like maybe it is

1184
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: a it is a it is a just an incredible

1185
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: campaign of chair. But this guy is like she is

1186
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: staggeringly based he that this is quote from that book. Again,

1187
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 1: Rodney is used to this type of verbal abuse and

1188
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: sometimes reacting kind. When a priest called him a murderer, uh,

1189
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: Rodney responded by calling the priest a child molester. When

1190
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: protesters told Rodney they were praying for him, he responded, no,

1191
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: you're preying upon us. There's a difference. So he rules

1192
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: and she likes he'd been a doctor who like did

1193
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: other stuff and when they worshiped people, I think I

1194
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 1: think it was after they burned his house down, he

1195
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: was like, no, fuck you, I'm only going to do abortions.

1196
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: Now he's exaggeratedly based like yeah, which which I guess

1197
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: also like this is this is a thing that like

1198
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: so like obviously, like, I don't think any leftist has

1199
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: ever fucking lit people's horses on fire, not that I

1200
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: know of the generally left. Generally they would have more

1201
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: of an instinct to free the horses. Yeah, like that

1202
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: you have to you have to be like genuinely monstrous

1203
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: to to light horses on fire, like they screamed, like

1204
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:55,440
Speaker 1: horses scream like when you let them on fire. I mean,

1205
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 1: and and and cats and dogs animal like at animal

1206
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: abusts and animal murder. But it's it's like pretty pretty despicable.

1207
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 1: And there's uh just justifying it by saying it's because

1208
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: they were on the property of someone who helps gives abortions.

1209
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 1: Is some wild some wild thinking, Well, none of those

1210
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: what's in the Bible, Actually there is, There is a

1211
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 1: lot of animal murdering in the Bible. Never mind. Yeah, okay,

1212
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 1: well but but but but I mean, I I will

1213
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:29,759
Speaker 1: say that there is a thing that can happen where

1214
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 1: if if you like, sometimes targeted protests on a person

1215
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: just like makes them bin for it, like dig into

1216
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 1: their beliefs. And that's some tops in and and I

1217
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,640
Speaker 1: think like here, I think like there's a lot of

1218
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: people who are just stunning Lee Brave who go through

1219
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: this ship and just still keep doing it because like

1220
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 1: this is something that they believe in. And you know,

1221
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 1: and those aren't even like that extreme examples of like

1222
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that happens again again. We've talked

1223
01:08:55,479 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: about like again nail bombs, right, like people getting their

1224
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: head blown off with shotguns. There's there's a systemic campaign

1225
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: of terror that has felt incredibly acutely by the people

1226
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: who need these services, who need to get abortions, who

1227
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: need to get reproductive healthcare, and is felt by the

1228
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: providers of that healthcare, and nobody else in society sees

1229
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: about it or talks about it, and they have you know, Okay,

1230
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: so the I'm gonna read another quote from Living in

1231
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 1: the Crosshairs about the tactics that these groups use because

1232
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,839
Speaker 1: they have they have so many things. These tactics include bombings,

1233
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 1: arson and threat scares, and mass blockades. Extremists have also

1234
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 1: thrown beautric acid into clinics, glued clinic locks, shut locked

1235
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: themselves to clinic property using items such as bicycle locks

1236
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: or chains, drilled holes into clinic roops so that clinics

1237
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: flood invaded, invaded clinics, vandalized clinics, made threatening phone calls,

1238
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 1: try to persuade patients to go to fake clinics, which

1239
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: we've talked about that in our our episode on Cristis

1240
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: pregnancy centers. But those that is also like part of

1241
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 1: the systemic campaign of terror is deceiving and humiliating people

1242
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,919
Speaker 1: into not getting abortions. Uh, they put spikes on driveway

1243
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: as they they they'll they'll still stand one of them.

1244
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: This is a very common things. They'll stand on stand

1245
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: outside of abortion clinics talking about how they're gonna make

1246
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: bombs and like the kind of close that they're mixing

1247
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, they they'll they'll lay down on sidewalks

1248
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: in front of buildings. They will they will jump on

1249
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: people's cars. Uh, they will camp out in front of

1250
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: clinics for like multiple day stretches that they send decoy

1251
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 1: patients like into the clinics to disrupt it. It's just

1252
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:26,640
Speaker 1: so much Yeah, and like like the brazenness with like

1253
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 1: again like that if there are things on there, like okay,

1254
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 1: and like okay, So like I don't want to like

1255
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: make this point too much because like, yeah, you can

1256
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: get away with a lot of stuff, right, even if

1257
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:38,560
Speaker 1: the state is hunting for you. There's a lot of

1258
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: stuff that you could do that you can get away with.

1259
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: But like the level of stuff they've been able to

1260
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 1: get away with, like the fact that they've been able

1261
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 1: to literally on the air say that you should murder

1262
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: a specific abortion doctor mentioned them by name. And the

1263
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 1: fact that I know people who have had the FBI

1264
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 1: show up to their doors because of jokes they made

1265
01:10:55,880 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: on Twitter, it is it is fucking appalling. Yeah, yeah,

1266
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 1: because I mean they're not they don't. The law doesn't

1267
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 1: exist a lot, a lot doesn't matter. It's all about

1268
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,719
Speaker 1: who's actually challenging the systems of power. Yeah, and then

1269
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: the police are like again this this is one of

1270
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: those They literally do cross burnings, like fucking like, they

1271
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: literally do clan style fucking cross burning. So I I

1272
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: can once again go back to the old rage against

1273
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: the machine classics. Some of those who work forces are

1274
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 1: the same coop burn crosses because it is literally the

1275
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 1: same people. The cops will cooperate with them. Like, Um,

1276
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: there's the other thing that do a lot is they'll

1277
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: just like shoot bullets through the windows of clinics. Yeah,

1278
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: that is constantly, and they never no, no, no one,

1279
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 1: no one cares. That is very common. Yeah, and like

1280
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: fire bombs happened to do this day that one of

1281
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 1: the incidents they talked about in that book was, um,

1282
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: so they like this, this is stuff that happened at

1283
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: like one clinic, they set the clinics fence on fire

1284
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. They luged the downspouts

1285
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 1: on like the roof after like a giant snowstorm, so

1286
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 1: that like when when the snow melted, the water like

1287
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: poured into this whole they drilled it flooded the entire clinic.

1288
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: Um they had another one where they they drilled holes

1289
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: in the ceiling of the clinic and ran a garden

1290
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: hose through it and flooded the entire building. And yeah,

1291
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: again like none of this stuff ever makes the news,

1292
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: Like like well you and you you can compare, you

1293
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 1: compare the re action to this to like how they

1294
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 1: reacted the Animal Liberation Front right that that caused there

1295
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: was like there were like that, there were there were

1296
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: like like law enforcement like techniques. There are law enforcement

1297
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: organizations that exist today specifically to stop people like like

1298
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: that existed a specifically because of this campaign to stop

1299
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: the animal liberation friend for freeing animals like these people.

1300
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 1: And you know, and I should say this like also

1301
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 1: like there's this whole push to like, oh, we need

1302
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: to call these people terrorists and like yeah, like Bill

1303
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: Clinton called these people terrorists and like what happened, nothing

1304
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 1: like they they they got one law that was like fine,

1305
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: that was like that was that was about trying to

1306
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 1: keep people from protesting grass out of backet struck down

1307
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 1: by the Screame Court. Because again, we live in in

1308
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: a size society that is constantly moving towards the acratic fascism.

1309
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:12,759
Speaker 1: If you torch construction sites or sedans or people wanting

1310
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 1: to destroy sections the forest, then you're then you're a terrorist. Um.

1311
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: If you mail pops and to kill a whole bunch

1312
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 1: of horses, you're just you're just some some dudes, I guess. Yeah.

1313
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 1: And one of the things incredibly frustrating about the story

1314
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 1: is there will be people who are being stalked right

1315
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:34,480
Speaker 1: whether they're being harassed, and like they're they're being intimidated.

1316
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 1: These people keep showing up, they'll call the FBI, and

1317
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: the FBI will go in, we don't care, And then

1318
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: the next day I'll get shot by the same person.

1319
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: This happens multiple times with multiple and like like that.

1320
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 1: We talked about this with the person who killed tiller Um.

1321
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: A lot of the people who do use anti abortion

1322
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: murders like we're just irregular anti abortion prisoners and protesters,

1323
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: and like everything happens a lot is like people will

1324
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: go to jail for an abortion bombing, they'll come out

1325
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: and they'll do it again. And it's like, you know,

1326
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: one of the one of the really scary things about

1327
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 1: this as well, I know this is this has been

1328
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 1: stated before. This isn't by any means a new a

1329
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: new a new thought or framing. But with all of

1330
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 1: the laws getting enacted around the whole like bounty hunter

1331
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 1: side of things, for like how there's going to be

1332
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,719
Speaker 1: you know, citizens being deputized to track down both abortion

1333
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 1: providers people who sought out abortion. Um, it's giving all

1334
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 1: of this strain of thought, like this whole, all of

1335
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 1: the striving ideology, it's deputizing it, and it's giving it

1336
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: actual legal backing. So it's no longer just ignored by

1337
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: law enforcement. It is now being encouraged by local governments. Um.

1338
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: All of these all of these same motivations are now

1339
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 1: like you can get rewarded for doing this um And

1340
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 1: oh boy, well people sees on that opportunity. Yeah, And

1341
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 1: I think that there's a thing we can talk about

1342
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 1: with with fascism here where it's like Okay, So, like

1343
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:57,680
Speaker 1: what what is fascism? And if if you're looking at

1344
01:14:57,720 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: like one of the one of the things that like,

1345
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: if you if you're using like a strict classical definition

1346
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: of fascism is the integration of of like parties sort

1347
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: of like party paramilitary forces into the state. And this

1348
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: is what we're looking at, is we're looking at these

1349
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: people who have been sucking a bombing abortion clinics for

1350
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: fifty years, like starting to do this stuff. And I think,

1351
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna read another passage about the kinds of

1352
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:25,639
Speaker 1: stuff they do to individual people because like I think,

1353
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I keep going back to just

1354
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 1: like here's the high level terror that they're doing, but like, yeah,

1355
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: like the individual people. Um. After being verbally targeted at

1356
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: our clinic for years, protesters started harassing Tammy Madison through

1357
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:42,839
Speaker 1: various written communications. First, the protesters distributed flyers throughout Tammy's neighborhood,

1358
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 1: including one at Tammy's door. The flyer listed Tammy's address,

1359
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 1: the make and model of Tammy's car, and listed a

1360
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: telephone number reporter to be Tammy's number. Then the protest

1361
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,519
Speaker 1: disappeared at her home with Science Is playing her name

1362
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 1: that said she kills babies and hires the baby killers.

1363
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: When they were outside Tammy's house, they handed out flyers

1364
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 1: about her. And when walking by, they do things like

1365
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:07,000
Speaker 1: they'll they'll use like licenses for example, cause again you

1366
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 1: have to get licenses right to to to provide abortions,

1367
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: to be a doctor. And so they use a licenses

1368
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 1: to find personal information about people. These the people out

1369
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 1: there are like I mean their right wingers, right, so

1370
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,719
Speaker 1: they're they're really racist. They like they they love screaming

1371
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:24,759
Speaker 1: jew doctor at people because yeah, like they racial slurs.

1372
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 1: They constantly out people like the nail bob guy also

1373
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:31,880
Speaker 1: attacked a gay bars. Yeah, there's a lot of crossover

1374
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 1: in terms of who they want to attack. Yeah, and

1375
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: like they use constant death thrust. There's also a thing

1376
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: I want to talk a bit about, which is like

1377
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 1: these malicious legal lawsuits. So one of one of the

1378
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 1: ways that people go after like clinks is that they're

1379
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 1: constantly these clinics are like constantly under legal for people

1380
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 1: are constantly suing them. People people are suing them just

1381
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 1: to find out personal information about them because the court

1382
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 1: will give court will give you information. Uh, they get

1383
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: they have like these fake like fake case inspectors who

1384
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 1: will come in in order to in filtrate the things,

1385
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 1: like they have. There's legal enormous legal pressure from the

1386
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 1: state itself, which is often trying to destroy these clinics.

1387
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 1: They're they're like they'll they'll pass laws specifically to make

1388
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,760
Speaker 1: us with the clinics can't operate in various ways. Um

1389
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 1: like people who are just like district attorneys will, we'll

1390
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:17,679
Speaker 1: do investigations into them over and over again. They also

1391
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: they go after like the kids of providers constantly. I

1392
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,760
Speaker 1: read a story from this book that again, like no

1393
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 1: one ever talks about, like they they kidnapped this this

1394
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: provider's child like her like twelve year old child like

1395
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,760
Speaker 1: at a clinic and like try to indoctrinate them and

1396
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 1: then eventually gave them back after a few hours. But

1397
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 1: like again, like they they kidnapped a child of one

1398
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 1: of the people who works at these things, and there

1399
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 1: no one even talks about it, Like it's never there's

1400
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 1: never anything. I just I don't know, like I just

1401
01:17:57,560 --> 01:17:59,560
Speaker 1: like the more you go into this is like the

1402
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 1: more stuff that you see that like like they target

1403
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: people's parents still like show up at like the nursing

1404
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 1: homes of like the parents of like of these doctors,

1405
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: like they target their neighbors. They go after the donors

1406
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: to clinics a lot, like they'll they'll they'll send them

1407
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: pictures of like bullets and knives. Um. One of the

1408
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 1: things they do often is that those burned down completely

1409
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 1: the wrong clinic. So there's been a lot of cases

1410
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 1: where they just they attacked the clinic next to it

1411
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 1: because they're not the stuff they've gone. Yeah, I want

1412
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 1: to I want to end on this guy named John

1413
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:37,759
Speaker 1: Brockenhoff who he bombs three abortion clinics over two decades,

1414
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: Like he's one of the guys who they sent to prison,

1415
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 1: and then he came out and they bounded another abortion clinic. Um,

1416
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 1: And I want I want to read this quote from him.

1417
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 1: My orders to Vietnam didn't suddenly material materialize unexpectedly. I

1418
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 1: volunteered to go because I saw the South Vietnamese people

1419
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: were being threatened by a Communist takeover, and I figured

1420
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 1: if they were willing to fight for freedom, they deserve

1421
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 1: to be free and deserved help too. He goes on

1422
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: to point out in anywhere of seventy three, I had

1423
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:04,840
Speaker 1: just returned from voluntary participation in a bombing campaign in

1424
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,439
Speaker 1: support of the liberty of people eight thousand miles away.

1425
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:10,160
Speaker 1: So I hope you will believe I will. I would

1426
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 1: not have turned my back on my own people, American babies,

1427
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: my own people, American babies. If you had asked for

1428
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: my help in bombing an abortion an abortionary in this country,

1429
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:24,680
Speaker 1: even in seventy three, and especially since it was not

1430
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 1: mere liberty but very of their very lives at stake,

1431
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 1: I would have gone with you. So this guy is

1432
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: literally saying he's still fighting the Vietnam War, but he's

1433
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 1: doing it to bom abortion clinics, and he went to

1434
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 1: Vietnam because he want to kill communists. And this guy

1435
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,640
Speaker 1: was at the Capitol at January six. But that that

1436
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: sounds about right. So yeah, like it's like one of yeah,

1437
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 1: we're we're like the moment we are at now is

1438
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 1: this sort of detritus of like every crime the US

1439
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: has ever committed is just rolling back and you know,

1440
01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 1: we're we're we're we're seeing all of these people who, yeah,

1441
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: fought in Vietnam and came back home and like killed

1442
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who did abortions and did a

1443
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 1: bunch of bombings, and now they you know, and they tried,

1444
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 1: they just try to do a coup. They're probably going

1445
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 1: to get away with like in actually like a legal

1446
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 1: coup pretty soon because they've now seen control of the

1447
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 1: court system and it's like, well they've done they do

1448
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 1: a really effective combination of violent direct action and legal challenges.

1449
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 1: Uh there their actions able to be so successful. Uh

1450
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,679
Speaker 1: one because like the tactics they choose that cause material

1451
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,840
Speaker 1: damage and material change. But also obviously like they're not

1452
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 1: getting like investigated the same way anyone else would, right

1453
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 1: because like they are they are capable of doing this

1454
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: effective action because they don't face any any similar level

1455
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 1: of oppression to any other group that would that would

1456
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: be doing doing this, especially if they're on the left.

1457
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 1: Um So, like it's it's it's it's always useful to

1458
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: look at the tactics of your enemy and how they

1459
01:21:02,479 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: and how they do certain things. But you can always

1460
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: have to realize, like this is the same thing with

1461
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: January six, if it was a whole bunch of people

1462
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 1: in black block storming, that the response from the cops

1463
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 1: would have been very different initially and continue on throughout

1464
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 1: the whole day and these subsequent investigations. Um so yeah,

1465
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,680
Speaker 1: always good to look into tactics, but the response from

1466
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 1: the government is always going to differ depending on who's

1467
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 1: doing the actual challenging. Yeah, and I think, as I said,

1468
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 1: you thinks about this one, like there are things you

1469
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: can learn from how the right operates. You can't carbon

1470
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:36,880
Speaker 1: copy their tactics and try to do them from the

1471
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:39,160
Speaker 1: left because it just won't work because the start to

1472
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 1: structural conditions for the left are just different. But the

1473
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:45,720
Speaker 1: second thing is also that like it is simultaneously true

1474
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:47,760
Speaker 1: that the level of oppression against leftist is higher than

1475
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 1: it is against right wingers. And also that's true, and

1476
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 1: it's also true that you can do stuff and like

1477
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 1: people have and yeah, I mean none of the change

1478
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,600
Speaker 1: revenge people have gotten caught yet. So like you know,

1479
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 1: webels people see, yeah comes out and like, well, well

1480
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 1: we'll see like in general, right, especially when movements are decentralized. Um,

1481
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:11,759
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, wow, they should get they should

1482
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 1: get to get away with a whole bunch of stuff.

1483
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 1: You can be doing like pretty public of bombing incidents

1484
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 1: for almost a decade and not get caught. If you

1485
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,680
Speaker 1: just can bomb the Olympics and not get caught for

1486
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 1: like seven years. It's wild. And I'm also just assuming

1487
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 1: the vast majority of these guys are white, and so

1488
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 1: they're not. So it's also that and also the fact

1489
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: that this didn't happen like a long time ago. It's

1490
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 1: still happening, and that's crazy that we still don't hear

1491
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:46,600
Speaker 1: about it, Like yeah, like we we talked about we

1492
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:48,599
Speaker 1: talked about on this show like a few weeks ago,

1493
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 1: like people people lit another abortion clinic on fire, like

1494
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:57,679
Speaker 1: that happens still and will continue to happen, and people

1495
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,080
Speaker 1: continue to not care about it because it doesn't and

1496
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 1: anyone who's in power ins what the media doesn't care.

1497
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:04,360
Speaker 1: And it's been happening long enough that there's this sense

1498
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: of like normalization around it. It's not seen as radical,

1499
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,879
Speaker 1: it's seen as oh, obviously, some people think that's justified.

1500
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:15,799
Speaker 1: It's not. It's not surprising, um, and that normalization allows

1501
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 1: way more people to both feel capable of doing something

1502
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,800
Speaker 1: and it when it happens, there's not as big of

1503
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 1: a fuss. I do think it's also true though, like

1504
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of people, like I

1505
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: think most people don't know that this happened like I think,

1506
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:36,400
Speaker 1: I think there's an extent to which the level of

1507
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 1: violence has been totally invisibilized. And you know, because I

1508
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 1: mean they ever think about this again, is the reason

1509
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 1: that they're working like this is because this this is

1510
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 1: a completely minoritary and position, right, Like, they don't actually

1511
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 1: have that many numerical supporters. It's just that they're able

1512
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 1: to sort of, you know, they they have enough people

1513
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: to wage systemic cam pain of terror and because of

1514
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: that they're able to inflict their sort of able to

1515
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 1: inflict their their fascism on the rest of the population. Ah,

1516
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 1: that was a good ending sigh. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, some

1517
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 1: of these recordings haven't got the best sound quality. We

1518
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 1: were walking around the Butterfly Center. We tried the best

1519
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 1: to block the wind, but some of it's pretty blown

1520
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 1: out and we still wanted you to hear them. So

1521
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,559
Speaker 1: we've included them, but apologies that the sound quality isn't

1522
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 1: what it could be. There was a time when you

1523
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: could have been forgiven for believing that American fascism had

1524
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:55,200
Speaker 1: been thoroughly beaten back, marginalized, and damaged beyond the capacity

1525
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: for reconstitution. Only the very foolish and dishonest believe that today,

1526
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 1: every time the far right has taken a serious beating

1527
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:04,680
Speaker 1: in this country, they've had a place to retreat, to

1528
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 1: a sanctuary, to reorganize, recoup, and surge it again towards

1529
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: the halls of power. That sanctuary is the U. S.

1530
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 1: Mexico border. There's a song I quite admire by the

1531
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:19,600
Speaker 1: drive by Truckers named after a young Mexican man, Ramon Casiano.

1532
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty one, after the kind of stupid altercation

1533
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: young men have been having since time immemorial, Ramon was

1534
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 1: murdered by another kid named Harlan Carter. Harlan was convicted

1535
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 1: of murder and then led off by another judge due

1536
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 1: to a procedural issue with his case. It hardly needs

1537
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 1: to be said that Harlan was white. He went on

1538
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 1: to join the Border Patrol during a period when it

1539
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 1: was seen as a model of good racial policy by

1540
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: the Nazi government in Germany. Carter rose to lead the

1541
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 1: Border Patrol, helped to militarize it, and then went on

1542
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 1: to run the n r A and turn it from

1543
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: a simple gun advocacy organization to the far right culture

1544
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 1: war institution. It became everything we're dealing with today from

1545
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 1: the far rights started at the border, and to quote

1546
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:05,040
Speaker 1: from that song, that's still where it is today. But

1547
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,120
Speaker 1: the border is more than just a battle ground in

1548
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: America's endless culture war, and it is more than just

1549
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 1: the system of violencemnlike Carter helped make it into the

1550
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 1: United States. Border with Mexico stretches from the Atlantic to

1551
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:20,600
Speaker 1: the Pacific, through the homelands of many indigenous peoples, and

1552
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: across the migratory trails of numerous species, and to many

1553
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 1: many people today, it's still just home. Marianna Jones right,

1554
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,760
Speaker 1: runs a butterfly sanctuary that has somewhat improbably provoked the

1555
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: direct ire of a U. S President and become the

1556
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: center of a series of conspiracy theories. She also grew

1557
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 1: up along the border in the Rio Grande Valley. In

1558
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:43,959
Speaker 1: high school, she'd take trips to discothecas and bars in Rainosa,

1559
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 1: just across the border from McAllen, Texas. Today, she runs

1560
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 1: the National Butterfly Sanctuary just outside of the nondescript town

1561
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:53,960
Speaker 1: which seems to have endless strip malls, big box stores,

1562
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 1: and family run Mexican food joints. You can go there

1563
01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 1: and see wildflowers walk in the woods, and if you're

1564
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:01,800
Speaker 1: lucky like we were, you might even find a snake

1565
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:04,679
Speaker 1: in some monarch butterflies making their way across the continent

1566
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,640
Speaker 1: without regard for borders or immigration checks. So you know,

1567
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:16,560
Speaker 1: growing up here, we all live very fluid lines. And

1568
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: I used that word. I mean in the nineteen seventies

1569
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 1: during the Classic crisis, you know, when the Harder was president,

1570
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: we would literally drive to Mexico to gas upper cars

1571
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:36,680
Speaker 1: and then come back. We would for lunch and cocktas,

1572
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 1: come back for class to say of class, and come

1573
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 1: back to football names from the points. We were all

1574
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 1: in Mexico partying our casts. They had the best discos

1575
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 1: and clothes, and our parents were over there too, having

1576
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:59,479
Speaker 1: to turn. I know people or citizens who lived next

1577
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:04,600
Speaker 1: because it's more affordable because they have reliable with electricity.

1578
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 1: Y'all are laughing. But the border for most people living there,

1579
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:16,960
Speaker 1: sometimes called fronts, is an inconvenience. You have to drive

1580
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:20,559
Speaker 1: to a certain crossing. Sometimes your truck gets checked, sometimes

1581
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:22,639
Speaker 1: the port of entry is closed and you're late for work.

1582
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 1: But in the public eye, especially during and after the

1583
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:30,840
Speaker 1: presidential campaign, it looms like a scene from Lord of

1584
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 1: the Rings, and since then it's also started to look

1585
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 1: like one. So growing up here I knew there was

1586
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: illegal immigration. It's impossible not to know. I mean nearly

1587
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 1: everyone knows. Someone who came across is a family on

1588
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 1: a short term home, or they crossed the river somewhere.

1589
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:08,240
Speaker 1: But you'll see here our river is hite deep and dangerous.

1590
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:15,720
Speaker 1: It's deadly, um. I mean when I was growing up

1591
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:21,599
Speaker 1: here and I'm fifty two, I had friends who really

1592
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:25,280
Speaker 1: do weeks ago. Their parents had homes and businesses here

1593
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:29,559
Speaker 1: and there. Some of them read rode the bus across

1594
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 1: the bridge every day for school in the morning. I mean,

1595
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 1: it was nothing. We never thought of anyone's, you know,

1596
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:48,679
Speaker 1: in terms of citizenship or house. And they also play

1597
01:29:49,040 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: sort of liminals where two passports to navigate and co

1598
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 1: trees have since they have nothing, and there seems to

1599
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:19,679
Speaker 1: be hardly any in between. In mainstream media, the border

1600
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:22,720
Speaker 1: is presented as dangerous, as are the people crossing it.

1601
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:25,120
Speaker 1: But it's hard to feel that you're in danger when

1602
01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 1: you're watching the sunset over the real grand and listening

1603
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 1: to the owls who begin their work after dusk, and

1604
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 1: they have a diminishing wild places along the river's north bank.

1605
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:36,240
Speaker 1: Up until a couple of months ago, we were coming

1606
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 1: out here four or five times a week, sometimes twice

1607
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 1: a day on our boat and bringing a lot of

1608
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:46,320
Speaker 1: journalists out. It almost never wound up in the portage

1609
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:51,000
Speaker 1: because they never seen you know. They were like, yes,

1610
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:52,800
Speaker 1: take us out on the river. We want to see

1611
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:56,639
Speaker 1: the illegals crossing. We're like, We're like, dude, the only

1612
01:30:56,680 --> 01:31:03,439
Speaker 1: way to do that is to hook up with campaign

1613
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 1: officials working some of the most beautiful and fragile landscapes

1614
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:11,720
Speaker 1: in the country along the southern border. Part of Marianna's

1615
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 1: work is introducing kids to them. I've been lucky enough

1616
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:17,759
Speaker 1: to spend time in many of them, camping in East County,

1617
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 1: San Diego, where the PCT begins. It is one of

1618
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:23,120
Speaker 1: my favorite things to do. Writing my bike in southern

1619
01:31:23,160 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 1: Arizona is an adventure. I take it every opportunity, and

1620
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm not the only one. From jaguars to butterflies, many

1621
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 1: species of wildlife live along the border and pass over

1622
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:35,559
Speaker 1: it on a daily basis. The border might look serious

1623
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 1: on a map, but for much of the last century

1624
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,599
Speaker 1: you'd have struggled to point to it on the ground

1625
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 1: lest you had a GPS device and far too much

1626
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 1: free time on your hands. These kids that will be

1627
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: here this week as part of their academic study, they

1628
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:51,960
Speaker 1: thought the Rio Rand Valley was a desert. They didn't

1629
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:58,040
Speaker 1: know you know that we had eleven biologically distinct ecosystems

1630
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 1: in a four county region that would fit in side

1631
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 1: San Diego County, California. That you know that we have

1632
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 1: the river that's not a trickle when everybody flushes their toilets,

1633
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 1: you know, like it can be an El Paso. I mean,

1634
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:16,760
Speaker 1: they had no idea that we are the edge of

1635
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:26,040
Speaker 1: subtropical you know, America, the neo Tropics. Since eleven, though,

1636
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 1: the board has become a physical thing, a landscape thriving

1637
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:31,560
Speaker 1: with life that's somehow found a way to exist in

1638
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 1: places that can kill you with heat in the day

1639
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:36,679
Speaker 1: and cold the night, and sometimes both in twenty four hours.

1640
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:39,760
Speaker 1: Has been torn apart to provide people who have never

1641
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 1: been there with a chance to grandstand about security, and

1642
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: various government contractors a chance to line their pockets. Ted

1643
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: Cruz recently posed in a boat, wearing body armor and

1644
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 1: standing next to a machine gun, just feet away from

1645
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 1: where we watched recreational boaters sail lately along the river.

1646
01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 1: As we walked from the center down to the river,

1647
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:01,120
Speaker 1: we spotted some trash on the ground and went to

1648
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:04,360
Speaker 1: pick it up. Turned out to be a battery, the

1649
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:08,040
Speaker 1: kind used in a tactical flashlight or weapon light. Marianna

1650
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:10,360
Speaker 1: doesn't use those, and it wasn't there last time she

1651
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 1: walked down a trail. It's not just the wall that's

1652
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:17,240
Speaker 1: ruining this landscape, she says, it's a constant presence of

1653
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:20,559
Speaker 1: militarized border patrol. We see the area as a conflict zone,

1654
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 1: not a conservation one. As I was saying, they're the

1655
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:29,560
Speaker 1: ones stuff as well. They're very commonly used on the

1656
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:37,200
Speaker 1: kind of lights yea of the little night. They're so expensive.

1657
01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:43,200
Speaker 1: Marianna knows this only too well. Her butterfly center backs

1658
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,280
Speaker 1: up to the Rio Grand. It's a beautiful, peaceful place,

1659
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 1: but since two thousands seventeen it has been under threat

1660
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:52,600
Speaker 1: from the relentless militarization of the Southern Border. The butterflies,

1661
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:55,640
Speaker 1: she says, are important for a number of reasons. So

1662
01:33:56,160 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 1: butterflies are critical pollinators to all of the green stuff,

1663
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:07,280
Speaker 1: most of which we don't eat. People know bees pollinate

1664
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:11,680
Speaker 1: about one third of our food and so they care

1665
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 1: about bees now because everyone would hate to lose one

1666
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:19,480
Speaker 1: third of our food. But butterflies pollinate all of the grasses,

1667
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 1: wild flowers, shrubs, and trees on the planet. The ones

1668
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:33,479
Speaker 1: that reduce erosion by holding the ground in place against

1669
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:40,040
Speaker 1: wind and against rain and floods. The plants that reduce

1670
01:34:40,320 --> 01:34:44,200
Speaker 1: the radiant heat that would come off of the earth

1671
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:47,760
Speaker 1: if we didn't have the green stuff. They filter the

1672
01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:51,080
Speaker 1: water going into the water table, and they produce oxygen

1673
01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:55,800
Speaker 1: for us. They filter our air. That's why butterflies matter,

1674
01:34:56,120 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 1: and that's why everybody should care about them and do

1675
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 1: what they can in their commune at ease with their

1676
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:08,000
Speaker 1: intimate native plants to provide habitat for butterflies. It's not

1677
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:13,320
Speaker 1: just the butterflies who are in danger either. It's disgusting, um,

1678
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:21,040
Speaker 1: but it is I hate to say, entirely predictable, but

1679
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:28,599
Speaker 1: it's fairly predictable in an in stage capitalist society. We're

1680
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 1: removing from military doesn't to a border security one where

1681
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:40,479
Speaker 1: border walls and more security are the United States one.

1682
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 1: And how most people don't even know about art. I

1683
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:54,960
Speaker 1: have been shot at by wordpeck many times, and people

1684
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:58,320
Speaker 1: don't realize it was the CBP drums that we're flying

1685
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:02,599
Speaker 1: overhead in Minneapolis. To understand exactly what is at stake,

1686
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:05,360
Speaker 1: both for the border and the butterflies, it's important to

1687
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:08,679
Speaker 1: understand exactly what the border wall looks like on the ground.

1688
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 1: The border wall ecosystem is not just a wall. It's

1689
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: a towering thirty foot steel structure topped with anticlimb plates.

1690
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:18,720
Speaker 1: Along the barrier, which is often hundreds of yards from

1691
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:21,519
Speaker 1: the actual border, there's a road wide enough for two

1692
01:36:21,600 --> 01:36:24,559
Speaker 1: of the expensive pickup trucks the CBP drives to pass

1693
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,680
Speaker 1: each other in remote areas. A road to allow construction

1694
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 1: vehicles to get to the wall also had to be

1695
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:33,000
Speaker 1: built for landscapes that had been untouched for centuries. It's

1696
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 1: been catastrophic. That's why the National Butterfly Sanctuary fought the

1697
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:40,040
Speaker 1: border wall. In the summer of two thousands seventeen, they

1698
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 1: found contractors on their land using heavy equipment to destroy

1699
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 1: the plants they had worked so hard to protect. After

1700
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:50,600
Speaker 1: we found the contractors here illegally clearing our land with

1701
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 1: no right of entry, no eminent domain exercise, no waver

1702
01:36:57,320 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 1: of NIPA, and other laws we um you know, we

1703
01:37:01,840 --> 01:37:06,080
Speaker 1: filed suit against the federal government. That brought some publicity

1704
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:11,000
Speaker 1: and with it a lot of people who said, you

1705
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:15,240
Speaker 1: know that we if we opposed border wall, we must

1706
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 1: be for illegal immigration, as though the issue is that simple.

1707
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:24,599
Speaker 1: The wall, in addition to being a colossal expense, much

1708
01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:27,599
Speaker 1: of which is funneled to Zeckelmann Industries, a Canadian owned

1709
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 1: steel company, which was fined dollars by the FBC for

1710
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 1: legal donations to the Trump campaign, is pretty useless. That

1711
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:40,559
Speaker 1: the border wall is built miles inside the United States,

1712
01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:46,439
Speaker 1: that Border Patrol picks up ladders every day, um to

1713
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:52,799
Speaker 1: share photos of ramps built so vehicles could literally drive

1714
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:56,559
Speaker 1: over border wall like you know the old range rover

1715
01:37:56,760 --> 01:38:02,960
Speaker 1: commercials and and and also other breaches. UM. We also

1716
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 1: got a chance to explain to them that up until

1717
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:10,599
Speaker 1: President Trump, the Border Patrol Union itself had opposed border wall.

1718
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 1: They had called it a waste of money's ineffective, um,

1719
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:25,679
Speaker 1: and really irrelevant to their mission of preventing illegal entry

1720
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:29,360
Speaker 1: to the United States. Walking along the border, we found

1721
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 1: half a dozen ladders constructed from old wooden pallets. Alongside

1722
01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:35,120
Speaker 1: them were I D. S clothing And to try this

1723
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 1: that migrants had either abandoned on their journey north, or

1724
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,400
Speaker 1: had thrown out for them by border patrol agents who

1725
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 1: had apprehended them. Either way, these discarded things told a

1726
01:38:44,120 --> 01:38:47,799
Speaker 1: sad story of young people, sometimes parents and sometimes children

1727
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:50,560
Speaker 1: with siblings, crossing a river and then a wall to

1728
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 1: try to get a chance at a better life. What

1729
01:38:53,960 --> 01:38:56,639
Speaker 1: the border wall does do very effectively is funnel people

1730
01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:59,480
Speaker 1: through the giant gaps in it. From Texas to California.

1731
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:01,720
Speaker 1: The Trump had aministration has rushed to build as much

1732
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 1: wall as it could in order to live up to

1733
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:07,519
Speaker 1: the wildly exaggerated claims that Trump made in his election debates.

1734
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:10,679
Speaker 1: We now have as strong a border as we've ever had.

1735
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 1: Were over four hundred miles of brand new wall. Of

1736
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:16,599
Speaker 1: that over four hundred miles, three hundred and fifty odd

1737
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 1: were repairs to existing barriers or secure fences as they

1738
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:22,840
Speaker 1: are technically termed, but the rest was built in places

1739
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:26,040
Speaker 1: that were easiest to access. In southern California, mountains and

1740
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:28,960
Speaker 1: valleys are simply skipped. The wall stretches across the flat

1741
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 1: lands in between. People are forced to cross in these

1742
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 1: gaps in the hardest places, and as a result, many

1743
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 1: more of them die. The Butterfly Center isn't one of

1744
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: the hard places. But Marianna has found dozens of identity documents,

1745
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:44,600
Speaker 1: some of them in evidence bags labeled Department of Homeland Security.

1746
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:47,439
Speaker 1: She says that people aren't dumping them, they are being

1747
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:50,320
Speaker 1: stripped of their documents when they are detained. I know

1748
01:39:50,560 --> 01:40:00,680
Speaker 1: that the other side at the end of at the

1749
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:05,400
Speaker 1: cart counts the ragrance of their phone and there I

1750
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:13,640
Speaker 1: and that's a littl the migrants to keep phones piffle.

1751
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 1: It's how they hit the family to say you have

1752
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:24,720
Speaker 1: to sit on you know, operated to spur um. The

1753
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:31,880
Speaker 1: phone is the bank lifelibe not only uh you know,

1754
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:38,320
Speaker 1: leads for the immigrant the cartel. That's the only way

1755
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:45,600
Speaker 1: they get paid. And the fact that order patrol is

1756
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:52,800
Speaker 1: making people undocumented is something folks in the United States

1757
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:58,120
Speaker 1: don't understand. They don't see that. We find garbage bands,

1758
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 1: scroll of medical records, birth certificates, marriage licenses, ideas and

1759
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:14,000
Speaker 1: other things from mons identities and their illness or the

1760
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:17,200
Speaker 1: violence that they've they've suffered and every day to make

1761
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 1: their asylum cases, but more patrol trashes. Throughout the four

1762
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:26,960
Speaker 1: years of the Trump presidency, the Butterfly Center fought to

1763
01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:29,680
Speaker 1: protect the ecosystem they had created and to keep the

1764
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:33,799
Speaker 1: pristine riverbank for barn owls, not border patrol trucks. Marianna

1765
01:41:33,880 --> 01:41:36,560
Speaker 1: isn't alone. The South Texas Birding Preserve was forced to

1766
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:38,280
Speaker 1: back out of a deal with the FEDS after a

1767
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 1: Cohinity outcry at the thought of the loss of one

1768
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:43,479
Speaker 1: of the very few wild places in the area. While

1769
01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:45,880
Speaker 1: they have so far been able to stop the construction

1770
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,040
Speaker 1: of portions of the border wall, they have not been

1771
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:50,800
Speaker 1: able to stop the multiple armed agencies that police the

1772
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:55,400
Speaker 1: border and often each other, from encroaching on the center's land. County.

1773
01:41:55,439 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 1: In Texas, there are several overlapping missions to protect the border.

1774
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:02,760
Speaker 1: Under Operation and Loan Star, Texas National Guard soldiers are

1775
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:06,240
Speaker 1: deployed to protect the border and prevent drugs smuggling and

1776
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:09,719
Speaker 1: child trafficking, at least according to the Office of Governor

1777
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: Greg Abbott. Sadly, they're not able to protect themselves from

1778
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:18,200
Speaker 1: each other. So far, four soldiers have died by suicide,

1779
01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:22,880
Speaker 1: two in accidental shootings. Texas law allows National Guard soldiers

1780
01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:25,519
Speaker 1: to bring their own personal weapons, which were responsible for

1781
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:28,680
Speaker 1: both deaths, and one drowned trying to save migrants from

1782
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:32,240
Speaker 1: the river Because the troops are deployed under state orders,

1783
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:36,000
Speaker 1: not federal ones, they receive fewer benefits and their families

1784
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:38,160
Speaker 1: are not compensated as well in the event that they die.

1785
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 1: In addition to the ten thousand Texas troops, there are

1786
01:42:42,120 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 1: also four thousand National Guard soldiers on federal orders along

1787
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:48,680
Speaker 1: the border. Task Force Phoenix, as it's called, is a

1788
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:51,760
Speaker 1: combination of thirty four different Guard units stitched together with

1789
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 1: very little cohesion or prior experience working together, and has

1790
01:42:55,320 --> 01:42:59,040
Speaker 1: been blighted by low morale. Troops in this deployment are

1791
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:02,040
Speaker 1: three times likely to have a car accident that sees

1792
01:43:02,280 --> 01:43:05,519
Speaker 1: illegal drugs, and a battalion deployed to McCallan had three

1793
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:08,599
Speaker 1: soldiers die, the same number as arrest of the National

1794
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:11,720
Speaker 1: Guard combined that year. D u I use is so

1795
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:15,799
Speaker 1: common the breathalyzers are being issued to units. The crisis

1796
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:20,599
Speaker 1: isn't at the border. The crisis is the border. It's

1797
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:23,360
Speaker 1: not only United States soldiers dying along the southern border,

1798
01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:27,800
Speaker 1: it's also migrants. According to the Missing Migrants Project, and

1799
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:30,160
Speaker 1: the state is admittedly better viewed than it is heard.

1800
01:43:31,040 --> 01:43:33,960
Speaker 1: Migrants coming from Central or South America are far more

1801
01:43:34,080 --> 01:43:36,840
Speaker 1: likely to die at the USA's southern border than they

1802
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:40,240
Speaker 1: are at any other point on the way there. One thousand,

1803
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:42,719
Speaker 1: two hundred and forty eight people died or went missing

1804
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:45,680
Speaker 1: last year and making the trek north, five hundred and

1805
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:48,639
Speaker 1: ninety five of them at the border. Given that the border,

1806
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:53,080
Speaker 1: both under Republicans and Democrats', is a weapon that's increasingly

1807
01:43:53,120 --> 01:43:56,839
Speaker 1: effective at killing people an increasingly present in political debate,

1808
01:43:57,400 --> 01:44:00,880
Speaker 1: it's surprising how many people have never been there. The border,

1809
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:03,000
Speaker 1: at least the bits of it without the wall, doesn't

1810
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:06,000
Speaker 1: feel violent. One night, while we were in Texas, we

1811
01:44:06,080 --> 01:44:08,240
Speaker 1: sat on the bank of the Rio Ground and looked

1812
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:11,040
Speaker 1: across the river as the sunset. Behind us was a

1813
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:13,640
Speaker 1: wall funded by private donations to a group called We

1814
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:16,280
Speaker 1: Build the Wall. It's built so close to the river

1815
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:18,599
Speaker 1: that the weight from the border patrol boats will see

1816
01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:20,840
Speaker 1: it undermined and washed away in less than five years.

1817
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:25,800
Speaker 1: Across from us, little Cabanias and Bars studied the shoreline.

1818
01:44:26,479 --> 01:44:28,800
Speaker 1: They looked at Dylick and were it not for the

1819
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:30,880
Speaker 1: thousands of armed people who make it their job to

1820
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:32,760
Speaker 1: stop it, it would have been quite nice to swim

1821
01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:37,360
Speaker 1: across for a drink. Swimming over was out of the question.

1822
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:41,040
Speaker 1: But the peaceful border we encountered was not the one

1823
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:43,599
Speaker 1: you'd recognize if you've seen Fox News over the past

1824
01:44:43,680 --> 01:44:47,360
Speaker 1: four years. For much of Middle America, the border is

1825
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:51,080
Speaker 1: constructed as a lawless land somehow also as a desert,

1826
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:53,680
Speaker 1: despite the fact that miles of it and marked that river,

1827
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:58,200
Speaker 1: and a place where cartel violence goes unchecked. Human trafficking

1828
01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:01,240
Speaker 1: runs rampant. A young children are snatched away from their

1829
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 1: families and sold in sex slavery. Of course, young children

1830
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:07,439
Speaker 1: are snatched away from their families at the border, but

1831
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:10,680
Speaker 1: that's your taxpayer money at work, not the zetas or

1832
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:15,760
Speaker 1: cartels with dinner. Sadly, the butterfly centers opposition to the

1833
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 1: wall combined with this political theater at the border to

1834
01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:20,600
Speaker 1: place a group of people who just wanted to be

1835
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:23,599
Speaker 1: left alone, to be nice to butterflies, at the center

1836
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 1: of a culture ward they wanted nothing to do with.

1837
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:29,000
Speaker 1: At some point, the Trump White House became aware that

1838
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:32,040
Speaker 1: a hundred acres of Texas grasslands were holding out against

1839
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:36,000
Speaker 1: all the legal and questionably legal efforts of Department of

1840
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:39,840
Speaker 1: Homeland Security and the Trump administration to destroy the little

1841
01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:43,240
Speaker 1: haven along the real ground. We know that Jared Kushner

1842
01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:46,360
Speaker 1: said in May of twenty nineteen, in the Oval Office,

1843
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:54,439
Speaker 1: we solved the butterfly thing. And and Steve Bannon had been, uh,

1844
01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 1: you know, the former former special adviser to President Trump,

1845
01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:02,559
Speaker 1: and then he is the one who who started this psyop.

1846
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 1: And they took aim at us, and instead of us

1847
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:15,280
Speaker 1: being against the wall and possibly for um open borders,

1848
01:46:17,160 --> 01:46:22,440
Speaker 1: they declared that we were a cartel front and actively

1849
01:46:22,680 --> 01:46:30,439
Speaker 1: engaged in trafficking humans and drugs, that we were not

1850
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:35,160
Speaker 1: about conservation at all, but we were selling women and

1851
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:39,880
Speaker 1: children into sex slavery. Marianna's Twitter bio at a time

1852
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:44,680
Speaker 1: of writing reads do no harm, take no ship, and

1853
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:47,720
Speaker 1: that's approach she took. As a marga community began to

1854
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:51,719
Speaker 1: sling an increasing amount of ship. The North American Butterfly

1855
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:55,320
Speaker 1: Association filed suit against Brian Cole Fage slash we Build

1856
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:59,760
Speaker 1: the Wall, Tommy Fischer slash Fishers and Gravel slash TRG Construction,

1857
01:47:00,160 --> 01:47:03,080
Speaker 1: A Lance new House slash new House and Sons. On

1858
01:47:03,200 --> 01:47:07,240
Speaker 1: December third, twenty nineteen. Call Phage, a US Air Force veteran,

1859
01:47:07,479 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 1: attempted to crowd fund the war after Congress wouldn't fund

1860
01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:13,840
Speaker 1: it to the ridiculous extent that Trump desired. He raised

1861
01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 1: over twenty five million. In August of twenty twenty, call

1862
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:21,560
Speaker 1: Phage was indicted, along with Steve Bannon two other co defendants,

1863
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 1: on federal charges of defrauding hundreds of thousandth of We

1864
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:30,560
Speaker 1: Build the Wall donors. Federal prosecutors said that despite repeatedly

1865
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:34,000
Speaker 1: assuring donors that call Phage would not be paid, the

1866
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:37,040
Speaker 1: defendants engaged in a scheme to divert three hundred and

1867
01:47:37,120 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars to call Phage, which he used to

1868
01:47:40,120 --> 01:47:44,720
Speaker 1: fund his lavish lifestyle. Call Phage was separately indicted May

1869
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:47,120
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one on federal charges related to his

1870
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:51,160
Speaker 1: falsification of tax returns. In April of twenty twenty two,

1871
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:54,880
Speaker 1: Cauthage entered a guilty plea, having accounted for about ten

1872
01:47:54,960 --> 01:47:58,479
Speaker 1: million in spending a little under five miles of actual war.

1873
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:03,479
Speaker 1: Call Page's attempts to build the Wall in Texas were

1874
01:48:03,520 --> 01:48:06,760
Speaker 1: hampered by the National Butterfly Center lawyers, who argued that

1875
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:10,200
Speaker 1: it was a flood risk because it is and by

1876
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:13,640
Speaker 1: various tax issues at call Fedge's team seemed entirely unaware of.

1877
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:17,280
Speaker 1: While they hope to transfer the war they built, which

1878
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 1: they called the Lamborghini of walls, to federal ownership. CBP

1879
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:23,599
Speaker 1: wanted nothing to do with it, as they were building

1880
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:28,599
Speaker 1: their own wall outside of the floodplane. After ignoring a ruling,

1881
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:31,600
Speaker 1: call Fege eventually built about three miles of wall in

1882
01:48:31,720 --> 01:48:38,080
Speaker 1: Texas and then declared the project complete November. With litigation ongoing,

1883
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:41,520
Speaker 1: call Fadge took to Twitter to accuse the National Butterflies

1884
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:46,400
Speaker 1: Center of having a rampant sex trade taking place on

1885
01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:52,080
Speaker 1: your property and the death sick bodies. When we first

1886
01:48:52,720 --> 01:48:58,040
Speaker 1: saw Brian call Fage's tweets and then we build the

1887
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:02,879
Speaker 1: wall videos using my image and talking about the Butterfly

1888
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:07,559
Speaker 1: Lady and everything and the Butterfly Center. Um, at first,

1889
01:49:09,080 --> 01:49:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, we we kind of reacted with humor, like

1890
01:49:14,280 --> 01:49:17,120
Speaker 1: this is too funny, Like who in their right mind

1891
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:19,840
Speaker 1: would believe any of this? And you know, we even

1892
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:23,479
Speaker 1: tried addressing I mean, I didn't know who Brian cole

1893
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:28,599
Speaker 1: Fass was at the time, but you know, we replied like, um,

1894
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:32,560
Speaker 1: you have a very very active imagination or you're a

1895
01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 1: really you know, twisted person. And we used the hashtag

1896
01:49:38,080 --> 01:49:43,639
Speaker 1: liar liar pants on fire because we really did think

1897
01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:51,000
Speaker 1: it was ridiculous, but any notion that this was not

1898
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:57,479
Speaker 1: deadly serious was soon dismissed. And now I've become this

1899
01:50:00,400 --> 01:50:08,479
Speaker 1: or extremism in Americ politics word, as I told others, Yeah,

1900
01:50:08,479 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 1: I've had I've had a lot of journalists asked me,

1901
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 1: what does it feel like to be in the cross

1902
01:50:14,600 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 1: roads of the culture wars in America? And I'm like,

1903
01:50:18,320 --> 01:50:22,000
Speaker 1: I'm not at the crossroads of the culture war. I

1904
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:25,240
Speaker 1: live in the borderlands, which are the proving grounds for

1905
01:50:25,400 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 1: fascism in America. That's where I live. And we're gonna

1906
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:35,360
Speaker 1: see it more and more. Everybody's going to see it

1907
01:50:35,479 --> 01:50:40,080
Speaker 1: more and more. They test things like the aerostat balloons here,

1908
01:50:40,640 --> 01:50:42,560
Speaker 1: and the fact that we didn't cut them loose and

1909
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:45,920
Speaker 1: shoot them down and set them on fire. The fact

1910
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:49,160
Speaker 1: that we were like, oh, that's kind of a pretty innocuous,

1911
01:50:50,360 --> 01:50:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, white balloon in the sky. We can live

1912
01:50:55,280 --> 01:50:59,040
Speaker 1: with it means that now it's gone out from under

1913
01:50:59,120 --> 01:51:02,280
Speaker 1: DHS to d O D and it's being deployed across

1914
01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:31,479
Speaker 1: the United States coming soon were community. A few weeks

1915
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:35,280
Speaker 1: after cal Fidges tweeting, the Butterfly Center closed its Rusty Gate.

1916
01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:39,879
Speaker 1: It reopened in late April of two, but the almost

1917
01:51:40,040 --> 01:51:44,200
Speaker 1: three months in between were harrowing experience for Marianna and

1918
01:51:44,280 --> 01:51:46,640
Speaker 1: for the staff. And we arrived at a center in

1919
01:51:46,680 --> 01:51:50,080
Speaker 1: early March. There was a police surveillance tower posted in

1920
01:51:50,120 --> 01:51:52,920
Speaker 1: the car park and young men and hum vys on

1921
01:51:52,960 --> 01:51:55,960
Speaker 1: the road. We traveled down together there despite them, or

1922
01:51:56,040 --> 01:51:59,280
Speaker 1: perhaps in a sense because of them. In the theater

1923
01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:03,040
Speaker 1: they represent, Marianna doesn't feel safe. She carries a gun

1924
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:07,040
Speaker 1: on her property even without the wall. The mintorization of

1925
01:52:07,080 --> 01:52:09,439
Speaker 1: the border has had a huge impact on the center.

1926
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:11,720
Speaker 1: You will go into the river. She shows us some

1927
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:15,800
Speaker 1: of the roads and access routes had been built. Concrete

1928
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:18,840
Speaker 1: goes here in the base of the levier, midway in

1929
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:24,479
Speaker 1: the levee. The gap to make this road up here

1930
01:52:25,120 --> 01:52:29,360
Speaker 1: wide enough for two to three vehicles, and they're down here.

1931
01:52:29,439 --> 01:52:33,240
Speaker 1: They'll have a high speed all weather road. So we

1932
01:52:33,400 --> 01:52:38,200
Speaker 1: fully expect. There's porter wall and then there's border walls, system,

1933
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:44,600
Speaker 1: the road, the lighting, the sensors, um those sorts of

1934
01:52:44,720 --> 01:52:52,080
Speaker 1: things part of the system. Clear and alter this par system.

1935
01:52:53,320 --> 01:52:57,160
Speaker 1: Otherwise they come down this high speed all weather road,

1936
01:52:57,920 --> 01:53:02,360
Speaker 1: have to slow down, but and drive along the canal.

1937
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 1: And we know the number one killer of Troy Agents accidents.

1938
01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:11,200
Speaker 1: As we walk along one of the roads, we talk

1939
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:14,080
Speaker 1: about the impact that wall has had a wildlife. I

1940
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:16,519
Speaker 1: tell her a story about idea I saw try to

1941
01:53:16,560 --> 01:53:19,599
Speaker 1: get around the wall into a point. For whatever reason,

1942
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:22,320
Speaker 1: it was so desperately sad that I can't forget it.

1943
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:25,600
Speaker 1: The devastation the border reads on human life tends to

1944
01:53:25,640 --> 01:53:28,760
Speaker 1: get the most pressed and rpefully so. But Marianna has

1945
01:53:28,760 --> 01:53:31,280
Speaker 1: spent years watching the wall spread like a cancer at

1946
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:38,600
Speaker 1: the ecosystem. She loves the addition of herbicide, you know,

1947
01:53:38,920 --> 01:53:43,840
Speaker 1: keep the enforcement zone dead and free of any vegetation.

1948
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:46,960
Speaker 1: It has to do with the installation of all night

1949
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:50,960
Speaker 1: bright lighting that disrupts mammals, and of course the wall

1950
01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:55,439
Speaker 1: when it eliminates range area. When it when it forms

1951
01:53:55,520 --> 01:54:00,240
Speaker 1: that barrier for land mammals and reptiles, you eliminate yea

1952
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:06,479
Speaker 1: genetic diversity from from breeding, you eliminate seed distribution, all

1953
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:10,080
Speaker 1: kinds of other things. So um no, there's no way

1954
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:20,600
Speaker 1: to build all in the Lower Reo Ran Valley Wildlife Observation.

1955
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:25,400
Speaker 1: Of course, the human cost is even high. Marianna first

1956
01:54:25,479 --> 01:54:27,760
Speaker 1: became aware of exactly what was at stake when she

1957
01:54:28,479 --> 01:54:31,439
Speaker 1: like millions of other people, opened up her phone learned

1958
01:54:31,479 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 1: about the most recent in a string of hate crimes

1959
01:54:33,640 --> 01:54:38,360
Speaker 1: inspired by anti immigrant rhetoric. A very disturbed young man

1960
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:42,640
Speaker 1: drove from plane oh to the Walmart and El Paso

1961
01:54:42,760 --> 01:54:49,680
Speaker 1: and massacred twenty two people and injured dozens others. We

1962
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:54,280
Speaker 1: were very much aware of that, and I believe that

1963
01:54:54,760 --> 01:54:59,280
Speaker 1: is ultimately what we build. The wall seeks to provoke. Here.

1964
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:03,120
Speaker 1: The shooter, who openly targeted Mexicans and believed in the

1965
01:55:03,360 --> 01:55:06,800
Speaker 1: Great Replacement theory, which is common among white nationalists, had

1966
01:55:06,840 --> 01:55:09,320
Speaker 1: posted a manifesto on h Chan before he started his

1967
01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:12,959
Speaker 1: killing spree. In that manifesto, he complained of a Hispanic

1968
01:55:13,000 --> 01:55:15,880
Speaker 1: invasion and used rhetoric that mirrored that of Colfage and

1969
01:55:15,960 --> 01:55:20,040
Speaker 1: his fundraising collaborator, Steve Bannon. Two thousand nineteen was the

1970
01:55:20,120 --> 01:55:23,400
Speaker 1: year the eight Chan shootings dominated news coverage on extremism.

1971
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:26,480
Speaker 1: I found myself as the world media's go to guy

1972
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:29,200
Speaker 1: for explaining what had happened. The hardest thing to get

1973
01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:31,240
Speaker 1: across was how much of the hate that had ended

1974
01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:34,760
Speaker 1: in dozens of murders had started with ship posting, people

1975
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:37,680
Speaker 1: spreading racist memes and hateful jokes. Within the confines of

1976
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:41,760
Speaker 1: a digital echo chamber. For Marianna, the El Paso shooting

1977
01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:44,720
Speaker 1: was a wake up call, hard evidence that online bullshit

1978
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:48,360
Speaker 1: can turn into deadly violence. The longer she spent online

1979
01:55:48,400 --> 01:55:51,680
Speaker 1: reading far right conversations, the more she realized co Fage's

1980
01:55:51,720 --> 01:55:55,200
Speaker 1: baseless allegations might mean real danger for her in her colleagues.

1981
01:55:55,840 --> 01:55:59,120
Speaker 1: After we filed suit against the Department of Homeland Security

1982
01:55:59,280 --> 01:56:03,520
Speaker 1: and and there is publicity about that, And honestly, the

1983
01:56:03,600 --> 01:56:07,600
Speaker 1: timing of that was kind of good because we filed

1984
01:56:07,640 --> 01:56:09,840
Speaker 1: suit at the beginning of December, so by the time

1985
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:13,240
Speaker 1: media picked up on it, people were really already distracted

1986
01:56:13,320 --> 01:56:16,960
Speaker 1: by Christmas. You know, they were holiday planning and partying

1987
01:56:17,080 --> 01:56:21,560
Speaker 1: and shopping and all that. So there wasn't this enormous

1988
01:56:21,640 --> 01:56:27,400
Speaker 1: explosion of publicity and negative backlash. But we did start

1989
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 1: getting what we call disaster tourists, people who would show

1990
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:35,680
Speaker 1: up going we heard they're gonna build the wall across

1991
01:56:35,840 --> 01:56:38,760
Speaker 1: the Butterfly Center, show us where they're gonna build our

1992
01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:43,400
Speaker 1: president's big, beautiful wall. And as long as they behaved,

1993
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, we have maps, we would take their entry

1994
01:56:46,160 --> 01:56:48,600
Speaker 1: fee and say, okay, now you've got to walk a

1995
01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:52,080
Speaker 1: quarter mile that way to the canal. That's where they're

1996
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:54,160
Speaker 1: going to build it, and then walk another one point

1997
01:56:54,240 --> 01:56:58,680
Speaker 1: two miles to the border, to the actual border. And

1998
01:56:58,840 --> 01:57:02,440
Speaker 1: again it gave us a chance to educate people. And uh,

1999
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:04,720
Speaker 1: there was a lot of head scratching with people going

2000
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:08,280
Speaker 1: but why would they build the wall? Things seemed to

2001
01:57:08,320 --> 01:57:10,320
Speaker 1: be going well, but then they took a turn for

2002
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:14,160
Speaker 1: the worst. Kovach had tweeted that quote. The only butterflies

2003
01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:17,080
Speaker 1: we saw were swarming a decomposing body surrounded by tons

2004
01:57:17,120 --> 01:57:19,960
Speaker 1: of rotting trash left behind by illegals. And his lies

2005
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:22,280
Speaker 1: had become something of a fixture on the places where

2006
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:25,400
Speaker 1: MAGA and Q and on overlap. Almost none of these

2007
01:57:25,440 --> 01:57:28,200
Speaker 1: people had ever visited the border, but years of propaganda

2008
01:57:28,240 --> 01:57:31,160
Speaker 1: had given them a fixed set of expectations about this place.

2009
01:57:31,640 --> 01:57:34,440
Speaker 1: They spun up ever more ridiculous fantasies, and by late

2010
01:57:34,480 --> 01:57:37,240
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, some of them had even started to show

2011
01:57:37,320 --> 01:57:42,080
Speaker 1: up in person. About that same time, police arrested to

2012
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:47,280
Speaker 1: young men with Adam Woffen in West Texas and they

2013
01:57:47,440 --> 01:57:51,600
Speaker 1: had been stopped and uh, you know, pulled over, and

2014
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:56,040
Speaker 1: they had all kinds of weapons and munitions and grenades

2015
01:57:56,320 --> 01:58:01,120
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, improvised explosive devices and everything in

2016
01:58:01,160 --> 01:58:04,360
Speaker 1: the car, and they said they were headed to the border.

2017
01:58:05,400 --> 01:58:11,520
Speaker 1: Then the militia people started coming here. And um, I

2018
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:16,320
Speaker 1: was here the day the first ones came. The first

2019
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:21,240
Speaker 1: that we know of, came inside the building to case

2020
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:25,960
Speaker 1: the joint. And sometimes I sit here at the conference

2021
01:58:26,040 --> 01:58:29,000
Speaker 1: table to work. Sometimes I'm in this office right here,

2022
01:58:29,640 --> 01:58:31,560
Speaker 1: but I can always hear what's going on at the

2023
01:58:31,640 --> 01:58:35,160
Speaker 1: front counter, and we have a door time. And so

2024
01:58:36,720 --> 01:58:40,120
Speaker 1: there are questions that people ask when their first time visitors.

2025
01:58:41,120 --> 01:58:44,120
Speaker 1: There are questions people ask when they're part of our tribe,

2026
01:58:44,200 --> 01:58:48,200
Speaker 1: when they're naturalists, when they've come for the butterflies and

2027
01:58:48,240 --> 01:58:50,840
Speaker 1: the birds and all of that. And then there are

2028
01:58:50,960 --> 01:58:56,240
Speaker 1: questions people ask that make all of your spidy senses,

2029
01:58:57,240 --> 01:59:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, go off. And I heard heard that kind

2030
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:05,560
Speaker 1: of questioning, And whenever that happens, I get my phone

2031
01:59:05,760 --> 01:59:10,280
Speaker 1: open to camera and I go out there. What the

2032
01:59:10,400 --> 01:59:14,800
Speaker 1: question you heard? Was that kind of They were asking

2033
01:59:14,920 --> 01:59:19,160
Speaker 1: about the lay of the land and how they would

2034
01:59:19,200 --> 01:59:24,800
Speaker 1: get to the river from here, And those aren't regular questions.

2035
01:59:24,880 --> 01:59:27,640
Speaker 1: When most people show up. They're like, we're here on

2036
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:30,600
Speaker 1: family vacation and not our way to south padre, but

2037
01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:33,440
Speaker 1: we heard there was a butterfly center, so we stopped.

2038
01:59:34,280 --> 01:59:36,840
Speaker 1: You know, so they may say, like where are the butterflies?

2039
01:59:36,960 --> 01:59:39,760
Speaker 1: People show up thinking we're a betterfly house, and you know,

2040
01:59:40,440 --> 01:59:44,440
Speaker 1: but when people immediately say like how do I get

2041
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:48,480
Speaker 1: to the river from here, or explained to me where

2042
01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:51,720
Speaker 1: the access points are there, you're kind of like, okay,

2043
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:56,680
Speaker 1: we know that's And I took a picture of them

2044
01:59:56,760 --> 02:00:00,600
Speaker 1: from behind, and then I went out there and I

2045
02:00:00,720 --> 02:00:03,040
Speaker 1: was like, you know, hello, gentlemen, can I help you?

2046
02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:06,120
Speaker 1: You know, and make sure they you know, it's like

2047
02:00:06,400 --> 02:00:09,080
Speaker 1: we are looking you in the face, we can identify you.

2048
02:00:09,960 --> 02:00:12,280
Speaker 1: And one of them kind of turned and walked off,

2049
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:14,600
Speaker 1: and one of them stayed to talk to me, and

2050
02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:17,160
Speaker 1: they were lazing, well, we've just you know, never been

2051
02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:19,560
Speaker 1: here before, and tell us which all are all about.

2052
02:00:19,720 --> 02:00:23,160
Speaker 1: And it was the week of Thanksgiving and we'd actually

2053
02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:25,680
Speaker 1: just had our pot luck for staff and some of

2054
02:00:25,720 --> 02:00:29,240
Speaker 1: our members. So they're like, and you've got food, and

2055
02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:31,760
Speaker 1: they're like, can we have some pecan pie or have

2056
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:34,720
Speaker 1: a slice of pie? But the other guy who had

2057
02:00:34,760 --> 02:00:37,560
Speaker 1: peeled off, I noticed him walking around. He came and

2058
02:00:37,680 --> 02:00:41,400
Speaker 1: looked back here. He was noticing the cameras and all

2059
02:00:41,480 --> 02:00:44,800
Speaker 1: the places. He made his way towards the back of

2060
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:48,320
Speaker 1: the building and started the same thing, and I was like, oh,

2061
02:00:48,480 --> 02:00:51,760
Speaker 1: and I told Luciano, go outside, photograph all the vehicles

2062
02:00:51,800 --> 02:00:55,040
Speaker 1: in the parking lot, you know, get license plates, get

2063
02:00:55,600 --> 02:00:59,400
Speaker 1: all the identifying information that we would need. And sure enough,

2064
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:04,360
Speaker 1: there were two trucks backed in with the punisher stickers

2065
02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:08,720
Speaker 1: and the thirteen stars in a circle and the you

2066
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:10,840
Speaker 1: know that don't tread on me and this and that.

2067
02:01:11,040 --> 02:01:13,240
Speaker 1: One of them was from New Mexico, and I believe

2068
02:01:13,280 --> 02:01:15,880
Speaker 1: the other one was from I want to say, like

2069
02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:20,360
Speaker 1: Oregon or somewhere, but it was, yeah, I mean it

2070
02:01:20,600 --> 02:01:26,640
Speaker 1: was I've still got all that information. And then I

2071
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:31,520
Speaker 1: uh so after they left, we downloaded the security camera

2072
02:01:31,880 --> 02:01:35,440
Speaker 1: video and put our photos and everything together, and I

2073
02:01:35,600 --> 02:01:40,880
Speaker 1: emailed everything to the commander for DPS down here as

2074
02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:45,840
Speaker 1: well as the Mission police chief and UM and then

2075
02:01:45,920 --> 02:01:49,160
Speaker 1: asked to meet with them. And of course the Mission

2076
02:01:49,240 --> 02:01:52,320
Speaker 1: p D guys had no idea about the adam often

2077
02:01:52,480 --> 02:01:55,880
Speaker 1: people being arrested in Texas. They had no idea the

2078
02:01:55,960 --> 02:02:00,360
Speaker 1: militia was in town. UM. And then they more and

2079
02:02:00,440 --> 02:02:04,120
Speaker 1: more of them kept coming, and you know, one of

2080
02:02:04,160 --> 02:02:06,800
Speaker 1: them would drive up and down Sherbock and his huge

2081
02:02:06,960 --> 02:02:10,840
Speaker 1: jacked up truck. There's a red truck with the Trump flags,

2082
02:02:10,920 --> 02:02:13,840
Speaker 1: and he had two big great danes that you know,

2083
02:02:13,920 --> 02:02:17,080
Speaker 1: and he would just be loud and annoying. He wanted

2084
02:02:17,120 --> 02:02:21,600
Speaker 1: everybody to know he was here on patrol and and

2085
02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:28,880
Speaker 1: ready to intimidate. That was disconcerting, but the police responded.

2086
02:02:29,920 --> 02:02:34,480
Speaker 1: They wound up having several interactions with various militia people

2087
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:37,920
Speaker 1: and even taking at least two of them that we

2088
02:02:38,040 --> 02:02:41,160
Speaker 1: know of, into custody, and at least one of those

2089
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:44,720
Speaker 1: was turned over to the FBI. The man arrested had

2090
02:02:44,760 --> 02:02:47,560
Speaker 1: outstanding warrants and had been flying a drone in a

2091
02:02:47,640 --> 02:02:51,480
Speaker 1: controlled air space. Another had been impersonating a law enforcement officer.

2092
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:54,800
Speaker 1: Seeing the threat, Marianna realized that if she wanted to

2093
02:02:54,840 --> 02:02:56,640
Speaker 1: stay safe, he was going to have to take matters

2094
02:02:56,680 --> 02:02:59,280
Speaker 1: into her own hands. We don't know if it was

2095
02:02:59,360 --> 02:03:02,360
Speaker 1: done here or somewhere else. I assume it was not

2096
02:03:02,560 --> 02:03:06,920
Speaker 1: here because they didn't tell us it was here. Oh No.

2097
02:03:07,600 --> 02:03:10,640
Speaker 1: The mission p D officer who is their liaison with

2098
02:03:10,800 --> 02:03:15,000
Speaker 1: the FBI came and met with me and thanked me

2099
02:03:15,160 --> 02:03:17,440
Speaker 1: for sharing all of that information. I mean, we knew

2100
02:03:17,440 --> 02:03:21,080
Speaker 1: what hotel they were staying at. We and we had

2101
02:03:21,400 --> 02:03:25,880
Speaker 1: We've had to become our own sort of security and

2102
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:30,240
Speaker 1: detective force because nobody else is doing it. And I

2103
02:03:30,320 --> 02:03:34,200
Speaker 1: think most people in communities around the country think the

2104
02:03:34,280 --> 02:03:37,000
Speaker 1: police know what's going on and they're out there, you know,

2105
02:03:38,440 --> 02:03:42,120
Speaker 1: safeguarding us, when we have learned the hard way that

2106
02:03:42,600 --> 02:03:47,040
Speaker 1: that is absolutely not true. Soon she was plumbing the

2107
02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:49,360
Speaker 1: parts of the Internet that she'd only heard mentioned on

2108
02:03:49,440 --> 02:03:53,680
Speaker 1: passing in the news. We were aware of Pizza Gate, Yeah,

2109
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:57,800
Speaker 1: we were aware that they had declared that Hillary Clinton

2110
02:03:57,920 --> 02:04:02,320
Speaker 1: and associates were running as Saint anach child you know,

2111
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:07,160
Speaker 1: sex ring with you know, ritual sacrifice and all kinds

2112
02:04:07,200 --> 02:04:10,600
Speaker 1: of other preposterous stuff out of the basement of a

2113
02:04:10,680 --> 02:04:15,280
Speaker 1: d C. Pizza parlor, you know where the pizza parlor

2114
02:04:15,320 --> 02:04:18,280
Speaker 1: didn't even have a basement, much less a Satanic ritual

2115
02:04:18,440 --> 02:04:21,880
Speaker 1: child sex trafficking ring. Just a few weeks after the

2116
02:04:21,880 --> 02:04:24,680
Speaker 1: shooting an El Paso, we build the war Broke ground

2117
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:28,720
Speaker 1: on their Phase two project within sight, very much within

2118
02:04:28,800 --> 02:04:32,400
Speaker 1: shooting distance to the National Butterfly Center. Marna was under

2119
02:04:32,440 --> 02:04:36,840
Speaker 1: no illusion about the stakes. They know that they have

2120
02:04:37,120 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 1: the ability to incite violence in that way to motivate

2121
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:49,000
Speaker 1: people to take action, and they use a lot of

2122
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:55,640
Speaker 1: really inflammatory rhetoric. Even Steve Bannon's broadcast is called the

2123
02:04:55,840 --> 02:05:00,400
Speaker 1: War Room. You know, we're all at war. We're war

2124
02:05:00,600 --> 02:05:03,800
Speaker 1: against the cartels, and we're at war for the soul

2125
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:07,480
Speaker 1: of our nation, and we're at war against the Democrats,

2126
02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:11,280
Speaker 1: and you know, and and now they're at war against

2127
02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:16,040
Speaker 1: the Butterfly Center. In addition to her intelligence gathering, she

2128
02:05:16,160 --> 02:05:19,760
Speaker 1: started taking steps to protect herself and her workers. They

2129
02:05:19,800 --> 02:05:21,920
Speaker 1: weren't exactly the sort of thing she'd expected when she

2130
02:05:21,960 --> 02:05:23,840
Speaker 1: took a job. What you'd hope to write grunts and

2131
02:05:23,920 --> 02:05:27,760
Speaker 1: talk to kids about butterflies. We had to develop some

2132
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:33,200
Speaker 1: very rudimentary safety plans, like if there were a shooting,

2133
02:05:33,720 --> 02:05:41,960
Speaker 1: where you would shelter, how we would try to safeguard visitors, um,

2134
02:05:42,200 --> 02:05:46,000
Speaker 1: and other things to like the women on staff, even

2135
02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:49,760
Speaker 1: the guys on staff, UM, Like I never have my

2136
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:53,120
Speaker 1: hair down. I always keep it up or under a

2137
02:05:53,200 --> 02:05:55,920
Speaker 1: hat or something. Because you just learned in basic self

2138
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:59,080
Speaker 1: defense that somebody's going to grab your ponytail or your

2139
02:05:59,200 --> 02:06:03,920
Speaker 1: hair as the fastest, easiest way to take control of

2140
02:06:04,040 --> 02:06:07,960
Speaker 1: your whole body. Basically, so we just we all take

2141
02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:13,560
Speaker 1: um a variety of precautions, and it has radically changed

2142
02:06:13,720 --> 02:06:16,920
Speaker 1: the way we we operate here and the way we

2143
02:06:17,080 --> 02:06:21,040
Speaker 1: perceived this place which used to be. I mean, we

2144
02:06:21,160 --> 02:06:26,800
Speaker 1: were blissful idiots coming to work in this oasis of

2145
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:32,400
Speaker 1: of flowers and butterflies every day. And you know, my

2146
02:06:32,600 --> 02:06:35,640
Speaker 1: children described me as snow white, that I'm out there

2147
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:40,360
Speaker 1: just with the you know, the butterflies landing on me,

2148
02:06:40,440 --> 02:06:45,240
Speaker 1: in the hummingbirds coming up and saying hello. Luckily she

2149
02:06:45,440 --> 02:06:48,040
Speaker 1: wasn't alone. As soon as people heard about the threats

2150
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:50,560
Speaker 1: to her in the center, she began to receive mass

2151
02:06:50,600 --> 02:06:53,840
Speaker 1: us of support. It turns out it's not only right

2152
02:06:53,880 --> 02:06:56,160
Speaker 1: wing grifters. You can summon people to remote part of

2153
02:06:56,240 --> 02:06:59,600
Speaker 1: southern Texas, whether Rio Grand Tristrough the reads a local

2154
02:06:59,680 --> 02:07:02,600
Speaker 1: switch to English and Spanish as a mood suits soon

2155
02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:06,280
Speaker 1: groups him across the country, from veterans to indigenous nations,

2156
02:07:06,600 --> 02:07:11,080
Speaker 1: reached out to office support. So first we had the

2157
02:07:11,160 --> 02:07:16,480
Speaker 1: water protectors and indigenous people's like the Gattisco, Marugo and

2158
02:07:16,840 --> 02:07:23,080
Speaker 1: Navajo and other nations. People came here and set up camp.

2159
02:07:23,400 --> 02:07:29,000
Speaker 1: They were good being here night and day to be

2160
02:07:29,160 --> 02:07:32,280
Speaker 1: our eyes and ears and a deterrent for the militia

2161
02:07:32,600 --> 02:07:37,120
Speaker 1: entering the property. And along with them came others like

2162
02:07:37,440 --> 02:07:44,920
Speaker 1: the Sierra Club Military Outdoors Program participants who also camped

2163
02:07:44,920 --> 02:07:49,440
Speaker 1: out here for a week. And we had the brown

2164
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:57,800
Speaker 1: Berets and veterans for Peace and um even UH folks

2165
02:07:57,960 --> 02:08:01,840
Speaker 1: from the Socialist Party and the Communist Party. I mean,

2166
02:08:01,880 --> 02:08:04,200
Speaker 1: I hate to even include that since we get called

2167
02:08:04,280 --> 02:08:09,360
Speaker 1: pinko comyne, libtards, snowflakes and all of that, but those

2168
02:08:09,480 --> 02:08:16,120
Speaker 1: folks showed up willing to help in the face of

2169
02:08:17,240 --> 02:08:21,160
Speaker 1: UH fascism, in the face of these militia lit all

2170
02:08:21,200 --> 02:08:24,080
Speaker 1: this stress and the need for constant patrols and vigilants

2171
02:08:24,120 --> 02:08:27,400
Speaker 1: to gets told even with support. Being the center of

2172
02:08:27,440 --> 02:08:30,320
Speaker 1: a fabricated firestorm of lies is no fun. It wasn't

2173
02:08:30,360 --> 02:08:33,520
Speaker 1: just Marianna who's impacted. The constant stressed and the NonStop

2174
02:08:33,560 --> 02:08:36,280
Speaker 1: over flights of the Border Patrol helicopters impacted her staff

2175
02:08:36,320 --> 02:08:39,440
Speaker 1: as well. And then in nineteen like all bets are off.

2176
02:08:39,440 --> 02:08:42,680
Speaker 1: Anybody can say anything they want. They can. You know,

2177
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:45,320
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but people hit mental health

2178
02:08:45,480 --> 02:08:49,560
Speaker 1: days now if they pay, if they just for whatever reason,

2179
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:52,360
Speaker 1: are like I can't deal with this ship. Today they

2180
02:08:52,400 --> 02:08:58,120
Speaker 1: don't have to come to work, and I've lost good employees. Briefly,

2181
02:08:58,280 --> 02:09:00,680
Speaker 1: we built the wall one an injunction and kept building

2182
02:09:00,760 --> 02:09:04,600
Speaker 1: their privately funded wall. Massive erosion quickly undermined it, but

2183
02:09:04,680 --> 02:09:07,640
Speaker 1: the International Boundary and Water Commission report on the construction

2184
02:09:07,760 --> 02:09:10,720
Speaker 1: wasn't completed until March, by which time we build the

2185
02:09:10,760 --> 02:09:14,200
Speaker 1: wall had completed three miles of wall. The consensus among

2186
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:17,640
Speaker 1: hydrologists and engineers interviewed by Pro Publica for a report

2187
02:09:17,680 --> 02:09:20,360
Speaker 1: on the wall said that the Rio Grand had scoured

2188
02:09:20,400 --> 02:09:23,240
Speaker 1: against the base of the wall, causing erosion and putting

2189
02:09:23,240 --> 02:09:26,720
Speaker 1: the wall in danger of collapse. With its very shallow foundation,

2190
02:09:26,840 --> 02:09:29,920
Speaker 1: Coal Fager's wall was an immediate danger of toppling into

2191
02:09:29,960 --> 02:09:32,960
Speaker 1: the river. In response to this, Trump did what Trump

2192
02:09:33,040 --> 02:09:37,040
Speaker 1: does and took to Twitter to blame everyone else. In July, tweeted,

2193
02:09:37,280 --> 02:09:40,240
Speaker 1: I disagreed with doing this very small, tiny section of

2194
02:09:40,280 --> 02:09:42,480
Speaker 1: the wall, going on to say it was only done

2195
02:09:42,520 --> 02:09:44,880
Speaker 1: to make me look bad and perhaps it now doesn't

2196
02:09:44,920 --> 02:09:47,400
Speaker 1: even work. Should have been built like rest of wall

2197
02:09:47,560 --> 02:09:50,240
Speaker 1: five hundred plus miles. I should also note that he

2198
02:09:50,360 --> 02:09:53,800
Speaker 1: misspelled perhaps in that tweet. While Coal Flas was still

2199
02:09:53,920 --> 02:09:56,720
Speaker 1: reeling from this condemnation, the acting U. S. Attorney for

2200
02:09:56,760 --> 02:09:59,640
Speaker 1: the Southern District of New York announced indictments of Coal,

2201
02:09:59,720 --> 02:10:03,280
Speaker 1: Fas and Bannon for wire fraud. The charging documents themselves

2202
02:10:03,320 --> 02:10:05,560
Speaker 1: are an unusually compelling read. We did a couple of

2203
02:10:05,600 --> 02:10:08,879
Speaker 1: episodes of Behind the Bastards covering them. The whole situation

2204
02:10:08,960 --> 02:10:11,120
Speaker 1: would be much funnier, though, if it weren't for all

2205
02:10:11,160 --> 02:10:14,919
Speaker 1: of the lives that Colfage and his cronies directly threatened. Anyway,

2206
02:10:15,280 --> 02:10:17,120
Speaker 1: it turned out they had been taking huge sums for

2207
02:10:17,160 --> 02:10:19,560
Speaker 1: their own personal use, while concealing their use of funds

2208
02:10:19,600 --> 02:10:21,640
Speaker 1: that donors thought would be spent on the wall by

2209
02:10:21,720 --> 02:10:25,000
Speaker 1: creating quote sham and voices and accounts to launder donations

2210
02:10:25,040 --> 02:10:28,400
Speaker 1: and cover up their crimes. Initially, all four entered not

2211
02:10:28,560 --> 02:10:31,280
Speaker 1: guilty please. They seem to be buying time, hoping that

2212
02:10:31,320 --> 02:10:33,920
Speaker 1: Trump would pardon them. In the end, he did pardon

2213
02:10:34,040 --> 02:10:36,160
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon, and you can make of that what you will,

2214
02:10:36,520 --> 02:10:38,320
Speaker 1: but the others were left to hang in the wind.

2215
02:10:38,760 --> 02:10:41,320
Speaker 1: This April call, Fage entered a guilty plea to these

2216
02:10:41,360 --> 02:10:46,000
Speaker 1: and other charges. The failure of Bannon and Colfage's grift

2217
02:10:46,080 --> 02:10:48,600
Speaker 1: didn't stop them from using the butterfly sanctuary as a

2218
02:10:48,680 --> 02:10:51,160
Speaker 1: punching bag and their fundraising grants that they published to

2219
02:10:51,200 --> 02:10:53,640
Speaker 1: whatever sites had not gotten around to banning them yet.

2220
02:10:54,080 --> 02:10:56,560
Speaker 1: As right wing radicals were d platform from Facebook and

2221
02:10:56,600 --> 02:10:59,680
Speaker 1: Twitter in the lead up to the election, Marianna stopped

2222
02:10:59,680 --> 02:11:02,560
Speaker 1: getting hagged in their rants, But they didn't stop ranting.

2223
02:11:03,240 --> 02:11:05,160
Speaker 1: Soon as it became clear that Trump had lost the

2224
02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:08,000
Speaker 1: election and refused to concede it, he began to lie

2225
02:11:08,080 --> 02:11:10,320
Speaker 1: about the election and then attempted to overturn it by

2226
02:11:10,400 --> 02:11:13,600
Speaker 1: encouraging his supporters to storm the US capital. At this point,

2227
02:11:13,680 --> 02:11:16,040
Speaker 1: it became clearer that the same people who were fanatical

2228
02:11:16,080 --> 02:11:19,720
Speaker 1: about building the wall had also become entirely detached from reality.

2229
02:11:20,240 --> 02:11:23,240
Speaker 1: Even after Biden had been inaugurated and their lie had failed.

2230
02:11:23,560 --> 02:11:26,360
Speaker 1: Who's who or perhaps a Who's not in jail for sedition.

2231
02:11:26,480 --> 02:11:29,440
Speaker 1: Yet of MAGA grifters continued to focus their rage at

2232
02:11:29,440 --> 02:11:31,960
Speaker 1: the que and on adjacent fantasies they had concocted about

2233
02:11:32,040 --> 02:11:36,440
Speaker 1: unspecified cartel's smuggling children across a butterfly sanctuary to sexually

2234
02:11:36,480 --> 02:11:39,240
Speaker 1: abuse them. Sometimes, they claimed they cut the heads off

2235
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:41,840
Speaker 1: of children so that the corpses were easier to transport.

2236
02:11:42,440 --> 02:11:45,600
Speaker 1: It's the kind of habitual, unhinged escalation that liberals and

2237
02:11:45,680 --> 02:11:49,600
Speaker 1: lefties on Twitter love to consume mockingly via aggregator accounts

2238
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:52,440
Speaker 1: that enable mass gawking at the far right. But for

2239
02:11:52,600 --> 02:11:55,600
Speaker 1: Marianna it was not at all amusing. Like I didn't

2240
02:11:55,640 --> 02:11:58,600
Speaker 1: even know rumble existed. I didn't know what rumble was.

2241
02:11:59,600 --> 02:12:03,160
Speaker 1: And they and we were sent the video that Christy

2242
02:12:03,280 --> 02:12:09,480
Speaker 1: Hutcherson and Lindsay Something from South Carolina made here in

2243
02:12:09,560 --> 02:12:12,520
Speaker 1: front of the Butterfly Center. And you know, of course

2244
02:12:12,600 --> 02:12:16,040
Speaker 1: there's the been Berkam stuff, and you know, we don't

2245
02:12:16,080 --> 02:12:20,240
Speaker 1: watch War Room, but sometimes I do have to go

2246
02:12:21,520 --> 02:12:25,280
Speaker 1: find and film portions of those broadcasts where Steve Bannon

2247
02:12:25,400 --> 02:12:30,320
Speaker 1: is still bashing us and and using that platform to

2248
02:12:30,520 --> 02:12:39,200
Speaker 1: bolster um the lies and and you know, really stir

2249
02:12:39,480 --> 02:12:47,360
Speaker 1: up the the the terrible sentiment and and ultimately we

2250
02:12:47,520 --> 02:12:51,600
Speaker 1: fear the stochastic terrorism. Let's stop for a second and

2251
02:12:51,680 --> 02:12:54,160
Speaker 1: go into more detail about the people she's referencing here.

2252
02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:57,680
Speaker 1: Christie Hutcherson founded a group called Women Fighting for America

2253
02:12:58,160 --> 02:13:01,880
Speaker 1: on their websites about page they today Americans closely held

2254
02:13:01,920 --> 02:13:04,240
Speaker 1: beliefs in freedoms seem to be under constant attack from

2255
02:13:04,280 --> 02:13:08,280
Speaker 1: mainstream media, elitist academia, judicial activists, foreign aggressors, and many

2256
02:13:08,360 --> 02:13:12,040
Speaker 1: times elected politicians. These attacks highlight the two extremely different

2257
02:13:12,080 --> 02:13:14,920
Speaker 1: ideologies fighting for our country's future, where we stand by

2258
02:13:15,000 --> 02:13:17,800
Speaker 1: and let America become a socialist, Marxist or communist nation

2259
02:13:17,880 --> 02:13:20,720
Speaker 1: and give our children up to this hopeless vision. I

2260
02:13:20,760 --> 02:13:24,360
Speaker 1: should also note that women fighting for America actively solicit donations,

2261
02:13:24,480 --> 02:13:28,880
Speaker 1: which they note are not tax deductible. Hutcherson incited rioters

2262
02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:31,760
Speaker 1: during the January sixth insurrection and is generally what you

2263
02:13:31,880 --> 02:13:35,320
Speaker 1: might call a B list MAGA star. Ben Birkwam is

2264
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:38,480
Speaker 1: a correspondent for Real America Voice, the network that hosts

2265
02:13:38,560 --> 02:13:42,440
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon's War Room podcasts. In general, the folks most

2266
02:13:42,520 --> 02:13:45,760
Speaker 1: focused on harassing the Butterfly Sanctuary are a lower grade

2267
02:13:45,800 --> 02:13:49,040
Speaker 1: of MAGA influencer than the major national names, but they

2268
02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:52,080
Speaker 1: all have connections higher up to those big names, and

2269
02:13:52,160 --> 02:13:54,880
Speaker 1: when they do land a successful line of propaganda, it

2270
02:13:54,960 --> 02:13:58,320
Speaker 1: tends to filter up quite efficiently to those bigger names.

2271
02:13:59,080 --> 02:14:01,680
Speaker 1: In January of twenty two, a year after the failed

2272
02:14:01,720 --> 02:14:04,240
Speaker 1: coup at the capital, some of these MAGA holdouts came

2273
02:14:04,280 --> 02:14:06,160
Speaker 1: to the Rio Grand Valley to pick on a target

2274
02:14:06,200 --> 02:14:08,200
Speaker 1: they thought they might have a better chance of taking.

2275
02:14:08,840 --> 02:14:12,200
Speaker 1: The Wee Stand America Border Security rally was headlined by

2276
02:14:12,280 --> 02:14:15,280
Speaker 1: the few remaining Q and On conspiracy theorists and supporters

2277
02:14:15,320 --> 02:14:18,160
Speaker 1: of former President Trump who had not gotten in trouble

2278
02:14:18,200 --> 02:14:21,280
Speaker 1: for the Capital stuff. In part, like the entire phenomenon,

2279
02:14:21,360 --> 02:14:23,840
Speaker 1: the conference was a giant grifft, but for many of

2280
02:14:23,880 --> 02:14:26,640
Speaker 1: the people taken up with its religious proclamations and wild

2281
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:29,640
Speaker 1: lives of child trafficking and sexual abuse, it was the

2282
02:14:29,720 --> 02:14:32,360
Speaker 1: last chance they felt they had to stop something evil.

2283
02:14:33,000 --> 02:14:35,560
Speaker 1: Marianna up until that time, hadn't been aware of how

2284
02:14:35,680 --> 02:14:39,160
Speaker 1: serious the threats against her sanctuary were. Then a friend

2285
02:14:39,240 --> 02:14:42,280
Speaker 1: involved in local Republican politics reached out and told her

2286
02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:45,880
Speaker 1: be armed at all times or out of town. Ahead

2287
02:14:45,920 --> 02:14:48,160
Speaker 1: of the rally. beIN Burquam appeared in a video on

2288
02:14:48,280 --> 02:14:51,920
Speaker 1: Getter outside of the sanctuary holding a pair of children's shoes,

2289
02:14:52,000 --> 02:14:55,040
Speaker 1: which he claimed were evidence of trafficking, and stated that

2290
02:14:55,160 --> 02:14:57,720
Speaker 1: he and the Butterfly Center were calling on Joe Biden

2291
02:14:57,800 --> 02:15:00,320
Speaker 1: to shut down the border were down here are actually

2292
02:15:00,320 --> 02:15:02,320
Speaker 1: heading down to Benson State Park to look at the

2293
02:15:02,440 --> 02:15:04,520
Speaker 1: end of the wall where Joe Biden stopped building the

2294
02:15:04,560 --> 02:15:09,120
Speaker 1: wall and this place, the Butterfly Center. They said they

2295
02:15:09,120 --> 02:15:11,600
Speaker 1: were afraid they had some credible threats that something was

2296
02:15:11,640 --> 02:15:13,320
Speaker 1: gonna go on. So we came down here and we

2297
02:15:13,400 --> 02:15:16,760
Speaker 1: want to join our voices with the Butterfly Center and

2298
02:15:16,840 --> 02:15:19,760
Speaker 1: say we stand against the credible threats of the cartel's

2299
02:15:20,480 --> 02:15:23,600
Speaker 1: trafficking children through the Butterfly Center, and we demand we

2300
02:15:23,760 --> 02:15:27,360
Speaker 1: call on Joe Biden to close this border down to

2301
02:15:27,480 --> 02:15:30,840
Speaker 1: protect the butterflies, because we all care about butterflies. I mean,

2302
02:15:31,160 --> 02:15:33,160
Speaker 1: you know the children that are being sold. These shoes

2303
02:15:33,200 --> 02:15:35,360
Speaker 1: were from one of the children that was trafficked across.

2304
02:15:35,440 --> 02:15:37,360
Speaker 1: This wristband was from one of the children that was

2305
02:15:37,440 --> 02:15:39,880
Speaker 1: trafficked across. Smaller than my four year old daughter's arm.

2306
02:15:40,400 --> 02:15:44,680
Speaker 1: But it really matters to the Democrats are the butterflies.

2307
02:15:45,120 --> 02:15:47,000
Speaker 1: And so we unite with them if that's what it

2308
02:15:47,320 --> 02:15:50,040
Speaker 1: If that's what it's gonna take to shut this border down,

2309
02:15:50,160 --> 02:15:53,320
Speaker 1: we unite with them and say protect the butterflies. Joe

2310
02:15:53,680 --> 02:15:56,640
Speaker 1: closed down the border because we know you don't care

2311
02:15:56,640 --> 02:15:59,680
Speaker 1: about the kids. The same day, Piper Loomis and hutchardson

2312
02:15:59,760 --> 02:16:02,600
Speaker 1: the p in their own video holding the same suspiciously

2313
02:16:02,680 --> 02:16:06,640
Speaker 1: new looking children's shoes, and they're horrifically overexposed video. They

2314
02:16:06,680 --> 02:16:09,960
Speaker 1: suggested that NBC was quote more concerned about butterflies than

2315
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:12,560
Speaker 1: the little children, and that the Butterfly Center was used

2316
02:16:12,600 --> 02:16:15,200
Speaker 1: as a route for the sex trafficking of children. Together,

2317
02:16:15,360 --> 02:16:18,960
Speaker 1: the video's title said they would save America. Hey everyone,

2318
02:16:19,040 --> 02:16:21,720
Speaker 1: this is Lindsay Piper Loomis. I'm here with my bestie,

2319
02:16:21,920 --> 02:16:25,360
Speaker 1: Christie Hutcherson and founder of Women Fighting for America. I

2320
02:16:25,400 --> 02:16:28,040
Speaker 1: went to the border with her last year for six days.

2321
02:16:28,280 --> 02:16:30,280
Speaker 1: We are here at the Butterfly Center. Look at the

2322
02:16:30,320 --> 02:16:32,600
Speaker 1: credible threat. They said, there's gonna be a big protest here.

2323
02:16:32,840 --> 02:16:36,440
Speaker 1: There's no protests. They're protesting. What tell them about the butterflies?

2324
02:16:37,040 --> 02:16:39,080
Speaker 1: Tell them why? Like, what was the big deal? I'm

2325
02:16:39,120 --> 02:16:42,640
Speaker 1: not really sure, but um, I got news. I've been

2326
02:16:42,720 --> 02:16:45,320
Speaker 1: hit by every single tabloid there is. But there's some

2327
02:16:45,400 --> 02:16:50,040
Speaker 1: kind of credible threat with butterflies here. UM in Mission Texas,

2328
02:16:50,280 --> 02:16:52,680
Speaker 1: UM from we stand America and Women Fighting for America.

2329
02:16:52,920 --> 02:16:55,320
Speaker 1: I can tell you Women Fighting for America loves butterflies,

2330
02:16:55,320 --> 02:16:57,520
Speaker 1: and we care about butterflies very much. So I wanted

2331
02:16:57,520 --> 02:17:00,959
Speaker 1: to come down here and see what the credible threat was, Um.

2332
02:17:01,120 --> 02:17:03,240
Speaker 1: And if we have to protect the butterflies, we need

2333
02:17:03,280 --> 02:17:06,560
Speaker 1: to protect the butterflies. I agree with that, So Biden,

2334
02:17:06,920 --> 02:17:10,400
Speaker 1: why don't you build the wall to protect the butterflies. Yeah,

2335
02:17:10,600 --> 02:17:14,240
Speaker 1: it's really that simple. UM. But my question to this

2336
02:17:14,320 --> 02:17:18,800
Speaker 1: administration and to the National Butterfly Museum here, why are

2337
02:17:18,879 --> 02:17:22,160
Speaker 1: you more concerned? Why are you more concerned about butterflies

2338
02:17:22,480 --> 02:17:24,240
Speaker 1: than you are than the little children who are being

2339
02:17:24,280 --> 02:17:29,200
Speaker 1: trafficked right behind this center, and they use the butterfly

2340
02:17:29,720 --> 02:17:32,800
Speaker 1: land to come up through and bring these children who

2341
02:17:32,840 --> 02:17:35,000
Speaker 1: are trafficked and these women who are trafficked. You know,

2342
02:17:35,520 --> 02:17:38,280
Speaker 1: Tom Homing yesterday was speaking on stage and was telling

2343
02:17:38,360 --> 02:17:40,560
Speaker 1: one of the stories where he's seen a little child

2344
02:17:40,600 --> 02:17:42,879
Speaker 1: where he had to rescue and that one child had

2345
02:17:43,120 --> 02:17:46,959
Speaker 1: over twenty two different people's d n A inside of them.

2346
02:17:47,720 --> 02:17:51,080
Speaker 1: That's disgusting. So as much as I care about butterflies,

2347
02:17:51,120 --> 02:17:53,240
Speaker 1: I can tell you this, Lindsay, I care a lot

2348
02:17:53,360 --> 02:17:56,240
Speaker 1: more about our children and the children who are coming

2349
02:17:56,320 --> 02:17:59,880
Speaker 1: up and being exploited from the different countries by the cartels.

2350
02:18:00,320 --> 02:18:02,240
Speaker 1: That's what I care about. So I've been telling you

2351
02:18:02,320 --> 02:18:04,640
Speaker 1: guys about how children are tattooed according to how they're

2352
02:18:04,640 --> 02:18:07,320
Speaker 1: going to be trafficked or sold into what type of trafficking,

2353
02:18:07,440 --> 02:18:10,320
Speaker 1: organ harvesting, sex, drug and human trafficking. How they use

2354
02:18:10,360 --> 02:18:12,800
Speaker 1: their body, they kill them, They use their body cavities

2355
02:18:12,840 --> 02:18:15,240
Speaker 1: to haul drugs across that border until the bodies start

2356
02:18:15,320 --> 02:18:18,760
Speaker 1: decaying and they find the bodies decaped, decapitated. Told you

2357
02:18:18,800 --> 02:18:21,720
Speaker 1: about the rape trees. But here we actually have a

2358
02:18:21,800 --> 02:18:24,720
Speaker 1: shoe from and this actually this is this is what

2359
02:18:25,040 --> 02:18:27,280
Speaker 1: so lindsay, this is a little bracelet and there's a

2360
02:18:27,320 --> 02:18:29,680
Speaker 1: little how much money it costs for this person to

2361
02:18:29,720 --> 02:18:33,320
Speaker 1: be brought aside um to to America from the cartels.

2362
02:18:33,640 --> 02:18:36,160
Speaker 1: The other thing is is that the cartels when they're

2363
02:18:36,160 --> 02:18:38,720
Speaker 1: getting ready to move children, they call them tickets. So

2364
02:18:38,840 --> 02:18:41,200
Speaker 1: they have no regard for life. They don't care. They'll

2365
02:18:41,240 --> 02:18:42,760
Speaker 1: throw them in the river, they'll leave them in the

2366
02:18:42,840 --> 02:18:46,440
Speaker 1: desert to die. Um, and they call them tickets. That's

2367
02:18:46,520 --> 02:18:49,480
Speaker 1: that's how disgusting this whole thing is. And America needs

2368
02:18:49,560 --> 02:18:52,240
Speaker 1: to wake up and understand we are at a war

2369
02:18:52,440 --> 02:18:54,480
Speaker 1: with the cartels. We are at the war to save

2370
02:18:54,520 --> 02:18:57,120
Speaker 1: our children, and every so much. Yeah, and every states

2371
02:18:57,120 --> 02:18:59,480
Speaker 1: the border state and South Carolina is ranked one of

2372
02:18:59,480 --> 02:19:02,120
Speaker 1: the top and then nation for trafficking. Lindsay Piper limits

2373
02:19:02,160 --> 02:19:05,800
Speaker 1: with Christie Hudgerson. Together, we're saving America. God bless. But

2374
02:19:05,959 --> 02:19:24,760
Speaker 1: this time they didn't stop with posting. On the day

2375
02:19:24,800 --> 02:19:28,280
Speaker 1: he was inaugurated, Biden signed an executive order re sending

2376
02:19:28,320 --> 02:19:31,840
Speaker 1: Trump's emergency Declaration at the southern border and ending some

2377
02:19:32,040 --> 02:19:34,320
Speaker 1: use of the d D funding. Trump had relied upon

2378
02:19:34,560 --> 02:19:38,320
Speaker 1: as an end run around accountability, but he didn't as

2379
02:19:38,360 --> 02:19:41,959
Speaker 1: he promised he would stop building immediately during the Biden

2380
02:19:42,520 --> 02:19:47,720
Speaker 1: Obama administration, Trump campaigned on um build that wall. Are

2381
02:19:47,760 --> 02:19:50,520
Speaker 1: you willing to tear that wall down? No, there will

2382
02:19:50,600 --> 02:19:54,920
Speaker 1: not be another foot of wall constructed on my administration

2383
02:19:55,440 --> 02:19:58,720
Speaker 1: number one. Like so much else, Biden didn't live up

2384
02:19:58,720 --> 02:20:01,080
Speaker 1: to his promises on the border. There have been some

2385
02:20:01,280 --> 02:20:05,199
Speaker 1: small victories for basic decency, but Biden's record is deeply mixed.

2386
02:20:06,080 --> 02:20:09,400
Speaker 1: He's reunited hundreds of children with their families, the ended

2387
02:20:09,480 --> 02:20:13,800
Speaker 1: court negotiations about a financial settlement for them. Migrant apprehensions

2388
02:20:13,879 --> 02:20:17,279
Speaker 1: climbed to one point seven million of record in fiscal

2389
02:20:17,360 --> 02:20:21,040
Speaker 1: year twenty one, but they also reflected an unusually high

2390
02:20:21,120 --> 02:20:24,000
Speaker 1: rate of adults attempting to cross the border multiple times

2391
02:20:25,240 --> 02:20:29,320
Speaker 1: that's because Biden's administration defended Trump's use of Title forty two,

2392
02:20:30,080 --> 02:20:32,080
Speaker 1: part of a seventy seven year old law called the

2393
02:20:32,120 --> 02:20:35,600
Speaker 1: Public Health Service Act, which has been interpreted to allow

2394
02:20:35,720 --> 02:20:38,879
Speaker 1: CVP to release migrants back into Mexico without booking them.

2395
02:20:39,520 --> 02:20:42,160
Speaker 1: Often this means they turned right back around across again

2396
02:20:42,640 --> 02:20:47,400
Speaker 1: in a more remote and often more deadly place. Biden

2397
02:20:47,440 --> 02:20:49,440
Speaker 1: hasn't lived up to his promises on the wall either.

2398
02:20:50,240 --> 02:20:53,680
Speaker 1: Marianna showed us a pile of wall sections, essentially giant

2399
02:20:53,720 --> 02:20:57,000
Speaker 1: metal poles, just a little shorter than Trump war. You

2400
02:20:57,040 --> 02:21:00,120
Speaker 1: could be forgiven for thinking they're identical, but these is,

2401
02:21:00,360 --> 02:21:04,400
Speaker 1: she explained, well, not technically wall. And you see the

2402
02:21:04,520 --> 02:21:07,680
Speaker 1: border wall that was being constructed there. Some of it

2403
02:21:07,800 --> 02:21:12,040
Speaker 1: has the tall ballards with the anti climb plate that's

2404
02:21:13,160 --> 02:21:22,680
Speaker 1: and then the short levy repair and guardrail. Well, I

2405
02:21:22,800 --> 02:21:25,360
Speaker 1: snapped moody black and white photos of the wall from

2406
02:21:25,400 --> 02:21:27,720
Speaker 1: on top of the levee, as I have all along

2407
02:21:27,800 --> 02:21:29,960
Speaker 1: the hundreds of miles of landscape that it cuts through

2408
02:21:30,040 --> 02:21:32,560
Speaker 1: like an open wound. Robot went down to see who

2409
02:21:32,640 --> 02:21:35,080
Speaker 1: made these new pieces of the Biden barrier, but we

2410
02:21:35,160 --> 02:21:38,080
Speaker 1: didn't have much luck finding a label the wall segments

2411
02:21:38,160 --> 02:21:41,280
Speaker 1: lay out in giant palettes surrounded by construction debris and dirt.

2412
02:21:41,560 --> 02:21:43,480
Speaker 1: Every palette is labeled, and so will are all the

2413
02:21:43,520 --> 02:21:46,840
Speaker 1: shipping containers, but the wall materials themselves had no clear

2414
02:21:46,920 --> 02:21:49,880
Speaker 1: maker's mark on them. As we walked back along the

2415
02:21:49,959 --> 02:21:52,520
Speaker 1: dirt road, we asked Marianna about the video that brought

2416
02:21:52,600 --> 02:21:54,760
Speaker 1: us here in the first place. If you haven't seen it,

2417
02:21:54,840 --> 02:21:58,199
Speaker 1: it's a video of Kimberly low along Odds. Marga congressional

2418
02:21:58,280 --> 02:22:01,840
Speaker 1: candidate from Virginia, really is an interesting figure. She started

2419
02:22:01,879 --> 02:22:05,360
Speaker 1: out as a Sanders backer in sixteen and has radicalized

2420
02:22:05,520 --> 02:22:07,520
Speaker 1: sense to such a degree that most of her local

2421
02:22:07,640 --> 02:22:10,000
Speaker 1: MAGA people want nothing to do with her. Some of

2422
02:22:10,080 --> 02:22:13,000
Speaker 1: them think she's some kind of double agent. Audio from

2423
02:22:13,040 --> 02:22:15,560
Speaker 1: the incident makes it clear why people might view Kimberly

2424
02:22:15,640 --> 02:22:19,320
Speaker 1: as unhinged. We're not here to cause any problems, I'm sorry. No,

2425
02:22:19,640 --> 02:22:23,680
Speaker 1: you are here to promote your agenda, and your agenda

2426
02:22:23,840 --> 02:22:27,840
Speaker 1: is not welcome here. So you're not for keeping the

2427
02:22:27,920 --> 02:22:30,840
Speaker 1: illgals out. So you're not that has all these four

2428
02:22:30,879 --> 02:22:34,320
Speaker 1: people in the humanitarian crisis. That's what we're here. So

2429
02:22:34,480 --> 02:22:38,640
Speaker 1: you're next trafficked and righted them that is not at

2430
02:22:38,680 --> 02:22:42,360
Speaker 1: all what this is about. We have girl scouts spend

2431
02:22:42,400 --> 02:22:47,560
Speaker 1: the night here. That's how safe it is. Yeah, I

2432
02:22:47,680 --> 02:22:50,840
Speaker 1: have children in the car. It's safe here. Anyway, We're

2433
02:22:50,879 --> 02:22:53,080
Speaker 1: not here to it now. You're you're here to make

2434
02:22:53,160 --> 02:22:57,200
Speaker 1: a show and to promote your agenda. So you can

2435
02:22:57,320 --> 02:23:00,320
Speaker 1: leave now, thank you for leaving, now, thank you? All right,

2436
02:23:00,520 --> 02:23:03,600
Speaker 1: But I'm sorry that you're okay with children being great.

2437
02:23:03,760 --> 02:23:06,280
Speaker 1: I'm not okay with any of that, and I thank you.

2438
02:23:06,400 --> 02:23:10,320
Speaker 1: Your bullshit is a big problem. I'm going to go

2439
02:23:10,480 --> 02:23:13,080
Speaker 1: help the world. I got a really nasty person. We'll

2440
02:23:13,160 --> 02:23:17,480
Speaker 1: let Marianna explain what happened. So I was sitting here,

2441
02:23:17,560 --> 02:23:21,040
Speaker 1: actually at the conference table, and my son was at

2442
02:23:21,080 --> 02:23:24,480
Speaker 1: the front counter. He doesn't work here, but he was

2443
02:23:24,600 --> 02:23:29,280
Speaker 1: covering for a staff member who was outsick. And as

2444
02:23:29,320 --> 02:23:31,560
Speaker 1: I was saying, you hear things that are like m

2445
02:23:33,000 --> 02:23:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, So I was on a conference call. I

2446
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:38,200
Speaker 1: had my headphones in, but my son came over and

2447
02:23:38,280 --> 02:23:40,960
Speaker 1: he gave me a note and it said, you know,

2448
02:23:42,120 --> 02:23:46,400
Speaker 1: this woman says she's running for Congress and has her

2449
02:23:46,480 --> 02:23:50,360
Speaker 1: secret service agent with her, and you know, I thought

2450
02:23:50,480 --> 02:23:52,680
Speaker 1: that was strange. But then I you know, I'm still

2451
02:23:52,760 --> 02:23:55,280
Speaker 1: on this call, but I you know, I took my

2452
02:23:55,560 --> 02:24:02,120
Speaker 1: headphones out so I could hear them. And the one woman, Michelle,

2453
02:24:02,520 --> 02:24:05,600
Speaker 1: was claiming to be secret service. And I mean, I've

2454
02:24:05,640 --> 02:24:08,280
Speaker 1: had people like bettor Work when he was a congressman

2455
02:24:08,320 --> 02:24:11,960
Speaker 1: come visit Michelle Beckley, who's a state representative. I mean,

2456
02:24:12,400 --> 02:24:17,520
Speaker 1: I've had I've had people come visit and they don't

2457
02:24:17,560 --> 02:24:21,280
Speaker 1: have secret service, you know. So I knew that that

2458
02:24:21,600 --> 02:24:25,000
Speaker 1: was not true, that this woman was not secret service.

2459
02:24:25,879 --> 02:24:30,120
Speaker 1: And the congressional rep I asked my son get her name,

2460
02:24:31,000 --> 02:24:34,279
Speaker 1: and he did, and I just did, you know, literally

2461
02:24:34,400 --> 02:24:38,440
Speaker 1: like one or two minute Internet search for her, and

2462
02:24:38,879 --> 02:24:45,120
Speaker 1: it was immediately apparent that she was a MAGA candidate.

2463
02:24:46,040 --> 02:24:49,840
Speaker 1: And my son said, they want us to open the

2464
02:24:49,920 --> 02:24:52,760
Speaker 1: back seventy for them, but they don't want to pay admission.

2465
02:24:54,240 --> 02:24:57,760
Speaker 1: And on her Facebook page, I could see their Facebook

2466
02:24:57,840 --> 02:25:00,400
Speaker 1: live stream from just like five minutes or or where

2467
02:25:00,400 --> 02:25:03,640
Speaker 1: they had driven down Sherbock to the gate where we

2468
02:25:03,720 --> 02:25:05,680
Speaker 1: all have been and seeing, you know, we have a great,

2469
02:25:05,760 --> 02:25:09,680
Speaker 1: big private property no trespassing sign, and then they went

2470
02:25:09,800 --> 02:25:13,840
Speaker 1: up on the levy and interacted with the Texas National

2471
02:25:13,920 --> 02:25:18,039
Speaker 1: Guard there. Her video ended before that, but a reporter

2472
02:25:18,200 --> 02:25:21,039
Speaker 1: with stars and stripes. I know, was on the levee

2473
02:25:21,680 --> 02:25:26,760
Speaker 1: with National Guard and interacted with Kimberly and Michelle. So

2474
02:25:26,879 --> 02:25:31,240
Speaker 1: they trespassed onto our property. Then they came here demanding

2475
02:25:31,360 --> 02:25:35,920
Speaker 1: that they be granted access without paying admission and declared,

2476
02:25:36,080 --> 02:25:39,160
Speaker 1: just right up front, we want to go see the

2477
02:25:39,360 --> 02:25:43,200
Speaker 1: river and the illegals crossing on the rafts to the

2478
02:25:43,280 --> 02:25:47,120
Speaker 1: Butterfly Center. The rafts they were talking about, we're referencing

2479
02:25:47,160 --> 02:25:50,120
Speaker 1: a doctored image circulating around the right wing conspiracy web.

2480
02:25:50,360 --> 02:25:51,960
Speaker 1: We stood at the dock in the image. On that

2481
02:25:52,080 --> 02:25:56,120
Speaker 1: afternoon there were no rafts. Marianna decided to try and

2482
02:25:56,240 --> 02:26:00,240
Speaker 1: talk the two women down, so, um, you know, I,

2483
02:26:00,440 --> 02:26:04,120
Speaker 1: I put my phone on record, carried it out there.

2484
02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:07,760
Speaker 1: I got to business cards because it is my job

2485
02:26:07,840 --> 02:26:10,880
Speaker 1: to be professional and grieve these people when they come.

2486
02:26:11,680 --> 02:26:14,120
Speaker 1: So I went out there and I said hello, and

2487
02:26:14,520 --> 02:26:16,520
Speaker 1: the rest of it is history. As they say, you

2488
02:26:16,640 --> 02:26:21,840
Speaker 1: have that audio or um you know of of of

2489
02:26:22,000 --> 02:26:24,280
Speaker 1: me saying I know who you are and what you're

2490
02:26:24,360 --> 02:26:28,800
Speaker 1: up to. And I knew then it was a setup

2491
02:26:30,480 --> 02:26:33,600
Speaker 1: for someone to come here and say those things and

2492
02:26:33,720 --> 02:26:38,520
Speaker 1: be doing their own uh you know, sort of project

2493
02:26:38,720 --> 02:26:49,840
Speaker 1: Veritas Facebook live stream Border Adventure from Virginia. As they say,

2494
02:26:49,920 --> 02:26:53,200
Speaker 1: none of it smelled right, you know, that didn't work,

2495
02:26:53,360 --> 02:26:56,200
Speaker 1: so she asked them to leave. Well, it was when

2496
02:26:56,240 --> 02:26:57,840
Speaker 1: I told them they needed to leave and if they

2497
02:26:57,879 --> 02:26:59,720
Speaker 1: weren't going to leave, you know, we would call the

2498
02:27:00,000 --> 02:27:02,240
Speaker 1: e And I told him. I gestured to my son,

2499
02:27:02,400 --> 02:27:03,960
Speaker 1: just do it, you know, go ahead and call the

2500
02:27:04,240 --> 02:27:08,000
Speaker 1: call the police, which he did, and they were like, no, no,

2501
02:27:08,200 --> 02:27:10,280
Speaker 1: we're leaving, We're leading. They went out the front doors,

2502
02:27:10,320 --> 02:27:13,520
Speaker 1: but then they stopped, so I opened the door behind them,

2503
02:27:13,600 --> 02:27:16,840
Speaker 1: like keep it moving, ladies, you know you have to leave.

2504
02:27:18,040 --> 02:27:21,080
Speaker 1: And I was focused on Michelle who was on my left,

2505
02:27:21,160 --> 02:27:26,359
Speaker 1: who was again saying she was Secret Service and laughing

2506
02:27:26,440 --> 02:27:30,640
Speaker 1: at her. When I turned and Kimberly was on this

2507
02:27:30,800 --> 02:27:33,520
Speaker 1: side of me and had her phone up like this,

2508
02:27:34,480 --> 02:27:37,000
Speaker 1: so I didn't know if she was taking photos or filming,

2509
02:27:38,360 --> 02:27:41,200
Speaker 1: but we talked about how everybody now has their own triggers.

2510
02:27:41,400 --> 02:27:43,800
Speaker 1: I do not want my photo taken. I do not

2511
02:27:44,080 --> 02:27:46,520
Speaker 1: want anyone filming me. I don't I don't want any

2512
02:27:46,600 --> 02:27:50,480
Speaker 1: of that because of how cold Fasion, Bannon and their

2513
02:27:50,520 --> 02:27:54,320
Speaker 1: fake news outlets and everything else have used my image

2514
02:27:54,680 --> 02:27:59,880
Speaker 1: and have put a target on my back. So she's

2515
02:28:00,000 --> 02:28:03,640
Speaker 1: standing there going we're here at the Butterfly Sanctuary or

2516
02:28:03,720 --> 02:28:06,879
Speaker 1: whatever she called it, and I'm with this not nice lady,

2517
02:28:07,040 --> 02:28:09,240
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh no, and I just put

2518
02:28:09,400 --> 02:28:13,320
Speaker 1: my hand up to block her from photographing or filming

2519
02:28:13,360 --> 02:28:16,359
Speaker 1: me or to swat it away. And then I immediately

2520
02:28:16,600 --> 02:28:21,160
Speaker 1: turned back towards the doors to retreat inside the building.

2521
02:28:21,640 --> 02:28:23,680
Speaker 1: But I didn't make it inside the building. I was

2522
02:28:23,840 --> 02:28:26,959
Speaker 1: flat on my ass on the ground, and I didn't

2523
02:28:27,040 --> 02:28:30,800
Speaker 1: know if Michelle had grabbed me from behind, or if

2524
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:35,120
Speaker 1: Kimberly had uh pushed me or whatever. But then my

2525
02:28:35,360 --> 02:28:37,960
Speaker 1: son busted out of the building and was sort of

2526
02:28:38,160 --> 02:28:42,200
Speaker 1: over me um and I'm trying to get up off

2527
02:28:42,240 --> 02:28:44,400
Speaker 1: the ground, and all this is caught on the video

2528
02:28:44,840 --> 02:28:48,000
Speaker 1: camera from the building. In a previous video, the women

2529
02:28:48,040 --> 02:28:50,880
Speaker 1: had indicated that they were armed, which is generally a

2530
02:28:51,000 --> 02:28:53,560
Speaker 1: safe assumption when MAGA type show up accusing you of

2531
02:28:53,680 --> 02:28:58,200
Speaker 1: child trafficking. The situation was rapidly growing more dangerous. My

2532
02:28:58,400 --> 02:29:02,959
Speaker 1: son feared for my life. He thought Michelle was going

2533
02:29:03,000 --> 02:29:05,800
Speaker 1: to stamp my face or my neck or my head.

2534
02:29:06,520 --> 02:29:11,480
Speaker 1: And she's a big girl, and and at that point

2535
02:29:11,600 --> 02:29:14,400
Speaker 1: Kimberly ran to her car. Somewhere in the midst of

2536
02:29:14,440 --> 02:29:17,520
Speaker 1: all that, she she fled to her car, where she

2537
02:29:17,640 --> 02:29:22,120
Speaker 1: had her three children waiting because this place is so

2538
02:29:22,320 --> 02:29:26,520
Speaker 1: dangerous and lawless and and everything. She brought her three

2539
02:29:26,760 --> 02:29:33,440
Speaker 1: children here for her opportunity to, you know, interact with

2540
02:29:33,600 --> 02:29:36,760
Speaker 1: cartel or whatever. I mean, it's just the whole thing

2541
02:29:36,959 --> 02:29:42,240
Speaker 1: just gets more bizarre. And uh. And Michelle at that

2542
02:29:42,320 --> 02:29:45,560
Speaker 1: point had taken my phone, and I was just telling her,

2543
02:29:45,640 --> 02:29:47,880
Speaker 1: you're not leaving with my phone, giving my phone back,

2544
02:29:48,280 --> 02:29:52,960
Speaker 1: while Kimberly is again live streaming from her car, yelling

2545
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:56,520
Speaker 1: at Michelle to come get in the car. Uh. Michelle

2546
02:29:56,600 --> 02:30:01,160
Speaker 1: did walk to the car declare, she's not bothering me

2547
02:30:02,760 --> 02:30:06,760
Speaker 1: about me. Um. But my son had run to close

2548
02:30:06,840 --> 02:30:09,440
Speaker 1: the front gate because he didn't want them. I mean,

2549
02:30:09,680 --> 02:30:13,480
Speaker 1: he had just called. Unbeknownst to us, there was a

2550
02:30:13,600 --> 02:30:18,000
Speaker 1: visitor in the parking lot who had also dial and

2551
02:30:18,200 --> 02:30:20,840
Speaker 1: you guys have been here. There's police on the corner.

2552
02:30:20,959 --> 02:30:24,600
Speaker 1: There's police, right, I mean, there's police everywhere. So my

2553
02:30:24,760 --> 02:30:28,000
Speaker 1: son ran to close the gate one so they couldn't

2554
02:30:28,080 --> 02:30:30,440
Speaker 1: leave with my phone too, so they would be here

2555
02:30:30,520 --> 02:30:33,600
Speaker 1: when the police got here. But then the police didn't come,

2556
02:30:34,720 --> 02:30:39,440
Speaker 1: and as she fled the property, she's filming herself and

2557
02:30:39,640 --> 02:30:46,600
Speaker 1: she's gunning it the car as she races towards the gate, screaming,

2558
02:30:46,640 --> 02:30:48,120
Speaker 1: get the funk out of my way, Get the funk

2559
02:30:48,160 --> 02:30:49,960
Speaker 1: out of my way, and then she swerves like this

2560
02:30:50,160 --> 02:30:54,200
Speaker 1: at my son, who had to leap to the ground

2561
02:30:54,400 --> 02:30:57,240
Speaker 1: out of the way to avoid being hit by her

2562
02:30:57,320 --> 02:31:00,600
Speaker 1: red range rover. The center was full of visitors, some

2563
02:31:00,720 --> 02:31:03,600
Speaker 1: of them called nine, but no one stepped into help

2564
02:31:04,080 --> 02:31:08,760
Speaker 1: prior to this experience. Yes, I would have expected our visitors,

2565
02:31:10,400 --> 02:31:16,280
Speaker 1: any decent human being, to respond to a woman's screaming, help, help,

2566
02:31:16,800 --> 02:31:21,960
Speaker 1: help me, please, please help, but nobody did, only my son.

2567
02:31:22,680 --> 02:31:25,200
Speaker 1: At first, they didn't fully grasp what was happening, but

2568
02:31:25,360 --> 02:31:28,760
Speaker 1: soon Marianna had worked out who her attacker was. And

2569
02:31:28,920 --> 02:31:32,400
Speaker 1: so I relayed all of that to my boss and

2570
02:31:32,680 --> 02:31:37,360
Speaker 1: to the police, and uh, you know, my boss was

2571
02:31:37,480 --> 02:31:40,000
Speaker 1: kind of like, well, do whatever you want. If you

2572
02:31:40,080 --> 02:31:42,400
Speaker 1: feel like you need to close next weekend, then close

2573
02:31:42,520 --> 02:31:45,800
Speaker 1: next weekend. So we did. We closed that Friday, Saturday,

2574
02:31:45,879 --> 02:31:50,600
Speaker 1: and Sunday, and then we came back in the next Monday,

2575
02:31:51,560 --> 02:31:55,520
Speaker 1: and that's when we saw and people started sending us

2576
02:31:55,600 --> 02:32:03,359
Speaker 1: the videos that Berkewam and Hutcherson had filmed here, presumably

2577
02:32:03,440 --> 02:32:06,600
Speaker 1: on Sunday, And there's probably a lot more stuff out

2578
02:32:06,640 --> 02:32:10,879
Speaker 1: there that we haven't seen. After leaving the Butterfly Center

2579
02:32:10,959 --> 02:32:13,400
Speaker 1: one day, we went for a walk towards some nearby

2580
02:32:13,440 --> 02:32:16,600
Speaker 1: trailer parks. They're full of people who the locals called

2581
02:32:16,640 --> 02:32:20,120
Speaker 1: Winter Texans, people from the colder parts of the US

2582
02:32:20,160 --> 02:32:22,160
Speaker 1: who spend a few months in trailer homes on the

2583
02:32:22,240 --> 02:32:24,680
Speaker 1: border so they can wear shorts in March and not

2584
02:32:24,800 --> 02:32:28,359
Speaker 1: pay expensive heating bills. We bumped into some Winter Texans

2585
02:32:28,520 --> 02:32:30,200
Speaker 1: who are on their way to a bird sanctuary we

2586
02:32:30,320 --> 02:32:33,200
Speaker 1: just visited. They said they'd missed their usual trips to

2587
02:32:33,240 --> 02:32:37,080
Speaker 1: the Butterfly Center their friends in Minnesota. They said, I

2588
02:32:37,160 --> 02:32:39,120
Speaker 1: can believe that they would go down to the border

2589
02:32:42,879 --> 02:32:46,320
Speaker 1: in Minnesota. Is not reality as to what's going on

2590
02:32:46,400 --> 02:32:52,720
Speaker 1: in the border down here. Um, people don't understand. You know,

2591
02:32:52,879 --> 02:32:59,280
Speaker 1: all the world wire you coming down and really says

2592
02:32:59,320 --> 02:33:04,200
Speaker 1: the idea of sports of people attacking you know, it's

2593
02:33:04,280 --> 02:33:07,320
Speaker 1: like the people coming out of your brain right now.

2594
02:33:07,520 --> 02:33:10,480
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the impression they get, and we

2595
02:33:10,640 --> 02:33:17,200
Speaker 1: say we go. They do their best to help change perceptions,

2596
02:33:17,240 --> 02:33:19,440
Speaker 1: they said, And then we try to We try to

2597
02:33:19,520 --> 02:33:23,200
Speaker 1: do as much as we can to get factual information

2598
02:33:23,520 --> 02:33:26,920
Speaker 1: back home to people with questions and stuff like that.

2599
02:33:27,560 --> 02:33:30,800
Speaker 1: We worked, Um maybe well we haven't done the last

2600
02:33:30,840 --> 02:33:34,480
Speaker 1: few years because I couldn't. But yeah, um, four or

2601
02:33:34,560 --> 02:33:36,640
Speaker 1: five years ago we were working with the rest of

2602
02:33:36,680 --> 02:33:40,200
Speaker 1: It Center here with topic charities, and there were some

2603
02:33:40,320 --> 02:33:42,840
Speaker 1: men where allow of the people could go over and

2604
02:33:42,920 --> 02:33:45,000
Speaker 1: on it. The other thing, I come, I don't think

2605
02:33:45,080 --> 02:33:48,800
Speaker 1: that people realize because of the river there's not a

2606
02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:53,640
Speaker 1: straight line, or that you can't just build a wall,

2607
02:33:55,320 --> 02:33:59,960
Speaker 1: and that people live in their houses south of the wall. Yeah,

2608
02:34:00,440 --> 02:34:04,280
Speaker 1: you know, and people's farms are selves of the wall. Yeah,

2609
02:34:04,440 --> 02:34:09,560
Speaker 1: sometimes there's sometimes there isn't. Everywhere we go along the border,

2610
02:34:09,720 --> 02:34:13,240
Speaker 1: we see division. Locals are losing places they love, and

2611
02:34:13,320 --> 02:34:16,000
Speaker 1: people from a long way away of performing a charade

2612
02:34:16,160 --> 02:34:19,560
Speaker 1: for personal and political gain. But it's not all that

2613
02:34:19,680 --> 02:34:23,000
Speaker 1: cut and dried. One taco shop we walked past has

2614
02:34:23,040 --> 02:34:26,879
Speaker 1: a special parking spot reserve for DHS employees. A trailer

2615
02:34:26,959 --> 02:34:29,720
Speaker 1: park we drive by has sim blue line flags. Fine,

2616
02:34:30,400 --> 02:34:33,360
Speaker 1: despite my best attempts at putting the clueless foreigner card

2617
02:34:33,879 --> 02:34:36,600
Speaker 1: when we call them. They won't tell me why they

2618
02:34:36,640 --> 02:34:39,400
Speaker 1: have the flags or what they mean. Some of the

2619
02:34:39,520 --> 02:34:41,760
Speaker 1: National Guards troops we spoke to have been out of

2620
02:34:41,840 --> 02:34:44,680
Speaker 1: work before they came down to the border. Actually I

2621
02:34:44,720 --> 02:34:48,840
Speaker 1: didn't have a job. Okay, give me, and I'm planning

2622
02:34:48,840 --> 02:34:54,120
Speaker 1: to say, You're like, okay, yeah, you get active, dud,

2623
02:34:54,120 --> 02:35:00,640
Speaker 1: you pay while you're somewhere where it's like it because border.

2624
02:35:03,440 --> 02:35:06,959
Speaker 1: Everyone on the border wants to feel safe, including Marianna.

2625
02:35:07,560 --> 02:35:09,800
Speaker 1: But the reason the border is remarkable at all is

2626
02:35:09,800 --> 02:35:12,720
Speaker 1: because so many people have to cross it. Some cross

2627
02:35:12,720 --> 02:35:16,039
Speaker 1: will work, some cross for fun, some cross to change

2628
02:35:16,080 --> 02:35:20,119
Speaker 1: their lives. But without people, the border doesn't have any significance.

2629
02:35:20,720 --> 02:35:24,560
Speaker 1: For Mariana. Without people, she can't even enjoy the quiet

2630
02:35:24,640 --> 02:35:28,680
Speaker 1: calm in the sanctuary. She hopes, she says, they can

2631
02:35:28,720 --> 02:35:31,800
Speaker 1: reopen suit. I mean, honestly, I hope it doesn't last

2632
02:35:31,840 --> 02:35:34,640
Speaker 1: a whole lot longer, because we all miss one another.

2633
02:35:35,879 --> 02:35:42,680
Speaker 1: We miss uh being here. You know, really, of all

2634
02:35:42,760 --> 02:35:45,240
Speaker 1: the jobs that a person can have in the world,

2635
02:35:45,840 --> 02:35:51,000
Speaker 1: one where you get to interact with wildlife and garden

2636
02:35:51,240 --> 02:35:55,200
Speaker 1: and breathe fresh air and you don't feel the rain

2637
02:35:55,360 --> 02:35:59,000
Speaker 1: on your face. I mean, it's pretty awesome. And uh

2638
02:35:59,160 --> 02:36:03,640
Speaker 1: and interact with people who are absolutely thrilled and fascinated,

2639
02:36:04,520 --> 02:36:09,960
Speaker 1: especially the children, just delighted, gleeful about their interactions here.

2640
02:36:11,000 --> 02:36:14,480
Speaker 1: We want to get back to that, but we have

2641
02:36:14,800 --> 02:36:19,400
Speaker 1: to have more, Um, we have to have more help

2642
02:36:19,480 --> 02:36:24,119
Speaker 1: before we can do that. We we need professional guidance

2643
02:36:24,280 --> 02:36:30,199
Speaker 1: beyond what we've received three years ago when the first

2644
02:36:30,480 --> 02:36:35,560
Speaker 1: wave of community defense and mutual aid hit the ground. Here.

2645
02:36:35,840 --> 02:36:38,400
Speaker 1: Mariana doesn't know and she'll feel safe, but even with

2646
02:36:38,440 --> 02:36:41,120
Speaker 1: the center poise to reopen as we write this, she

2647
02:36:41,320 --> 02:36:45,480
Speaker 1: isn't secure yet. You know. I feel like it's a

2648
02:36:45,600 --> 02:36:49,920
Speaker 1: cat and mouse thing, and they're the cat and wear

2649
02:36:50,000 --> 02:36:54,480
Speaker 1: the mouse, and that they are going to continue to

2650
02:36:54,680 --> 02:37:00,480
Speaker 1: come back again and again until something really bad that happens.

2651
02:37:01,720 --> 02:37:05,840
Speaker 1: I think it's almost a challenge maybe at this point,

2652
02:37:06,320 --> 02:37:13,080
Speaker 1: from what I can tell about their their psyche. You know. Um,

2653
02:37:13,160 --> 02:37:16,879
Speaker 1: it goes right back to that winning. You know, Steve

2654
02:37:16,959 --> 02:37:21,800
Speaker 1: Bannon's no loser. He's not used to losing, and anything

2655
02:37:22,000 --> 02:37:29,560
Speaker 1: short of achieving his goal, whatever that may be, is

2656
02:37:29,600 --> 02:37:33,119
Speaker 1: not winning. If you've made it this far, you're probably

2657
02:37:33,120 --> 02:37:36,800
Speaker 1: wondering what you can do to help. If, like most Americans,

2658
02:37:37,440 --> 02:37:38,960
Speaker 1: you live a long way from the southern border, and

2659
02:37:39,000 --> 02:37:42,080
Speaker 1: I've never visited. It might seem strange take up and

2660
02:37:42,160 --> 02:37:45,480
Speaker 1: travel there to meet a nice lady and talk about butterflies,

2661
02:37:45,800 --> 02:37:48,040
Speaker 1: Q and on, while you have to drive past soldiers

2662
02:37:48,080 --> 02:37:50,720
Speaker 1: in fatigued with assault rifles to look at her pollinated gun.

2663
02:37:51,360 --> 02:37:53,560
Speaker 1: But Marianna says that even the small acts of solid

2664
02:37:53,640 --> 02:37:56,960
Speaker 1: arcty make a huge difference. Even people just sending really

2665
02:37:57,200 --> 02:38:01,880
Speaker 1: nice email or letters is so good. We'll probably have

2666
02:38:02,000 --> 02:38:05,600
Speaker 1: a wall of that when we get back, because the

2667
02:38:05,720 --> 02:38:09,080
Speaker 1: flip side of that is the hate mail, the ugly messages,

2668
02:38:09,320 --> 02:38:13,280
Speaker 1: the death threats, the voicemails that are so horrible. So

2669
02:38:13,480 --> 02:38:16,760
Speaker 1: do you hear from people that do support us and

2670
02:38:16,959 --> 02:38:20,000
Speaker 1: stand with us and feel like what's happening is horrible.

2671
02:38:21,280 --> 02:38:24,200
Speaker 1: People who write to say, you know, I told my

2672
02:38:25,000 --> 02:38:28,880
Speaker 1: quilting circle about what's happening at the Butterfly Center, or

2673
02:38:29,480 --> 02:38:32,800
Speaker 1: you know, I mean and uh and we're gonna make

2674
02:38:32,840 --> 02:38:35,000
Speaker 1: a quilt for you, or you know whatever it is,

2675
02:38:35,240 --> 02:38:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, Um, it helps, It really does, And then

2676
02:38:40,920 --> 02:38:47,280
Speaker 1: they can share our story because it's not just about

2677
02:38:47,360 --> 02:38:51,160
Speaker 1: the Butterfly Center. It's about what's happening to our democracy.

2678
02:38:51,440 --> 02:38:59,480
Speaker 1: It's about how these operations work um to manipulate people

2679
02:38:59,720 --> 02:39:02,680
Speaker 1: with lies. I don't I don't want to call it

2680
02:39:02,879 --> 02:39:07,480
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories or misinformation or any of that anymore. They're

2681
02:39:07,600 --> 02:39:13,600
Speaker 1: just lies, and people need to start to understand that,

2682
02:39:13,800 --> 02:39:18,320
Speaker 1: whether it's about COVID or the Trucker Convoys, or trans

2683
02:39:18,520 --> 02:39:25,000
Speaker 1: Kids or the Butterfly Center. Hey, we'll be back Monday

2684
02:39:25,120 --> 02:39:28,039
Speaker 1: with more episodes every week from now until the heat

2685
02:39:28,080 --> 02:39:30,440
Speaker 1: Death of the Universe. It Could Happen Here is a

2686
02:39:30,480 --> 02:39:33,320
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool

2687
02:39:33,400 --> 02:39:36,000
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

2688
02:39:36,200 --> 02:39:37,920
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

2689
02:39:37,959 --> 02:39:41,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

2690
02:39:41,160 --> 02:39:43,840
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

2691
02:39:43,879 --> 02:39:47,080
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.