1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Once the last time you took a time out. I'm 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller fair 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, activists on the gender 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: division of labor, attorney and family mediator. And I'm doctor 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Addina Rukar, a Harvard physician and medical correspondent with an 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: expertise in the science of stress, resilience, mental health, and burnout. 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: We're so excited to share our podcast, time Out, a 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine, repealing back 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: the layers around why society makes it so easy to 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: guard men's time like it's diamonds and treat women's time 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: like it's infinite like sand. And so whether you're partnered 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: with or without children, or in a career where you 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: want more boundaries, this is the place for you, for 14 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: people of all family structures. So take this time out 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: with us to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: your time. Listen to time Out, a fair Play podcast 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or We're 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: ever you get your podcasts. Look for your children's eyes 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: and you will discover the true magic of a forest. 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and start exploring a discover 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: the Forest dot Org, brought to you by the United 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: States Forest Service and the AD Council After the Uprising 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: The Death of don Ye Dion Jones was nominated for 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: the n double A CP Image Award for Outstanding News 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: and Information Podcast. The eleven part series investigates the hanging 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: death of Ferguson protester Donye Jones. Listen on the I 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts, and 28 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: then please vote for your favorite podcast at vote dot 29 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: n a A CP Image Awards dot net. Spain, I'm 30 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastard. Actually, yeah, Spain, 31 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: that's what I got. This is Behind the Bastards. It's 32 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: actually Behind the Insurrections special Behind the Bastards miniseries talking 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: about the history of fascist attempts to seize power from democracies. Yes. Um, 34 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: we started our our first opening of this episode with 35 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: me shouting, what's bombing my Guernica's But then we decided 36 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: that would get me canceled and was a bad idea. Um, 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: so we will be talking about me. I would have 38 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: just gone, yeah, I just shouted the name Spain prop 39 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: alternate pitch what about Yeah, there we go. There we go, 40 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: There we go. Unfortunately, my knowledge of Spanish is mostly 41 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: limited to buying drugs. That's an NBA player from that 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: that was a really great laker. But you know, has 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: really good seafood. You can say that about Spain. I can. Oh, 44 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: my god, yes, I have had some amazing piea. One 45 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: of the pie as I had was partly responsible for 46 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: me vomiting on the limousine of the King of Spain. 47 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: But um, that's amazing. That's a story for another day. 48 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: Best friend, my best friend died in Spain. I don't know. No, 49 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: that's a great thing to say. That's years ago. My 50 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: old DJ, he flew to Spain. He was actually doing 51 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: a he was doing a master chef class with his pis. 52 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: He's Filipino, dude. He was going to do this like 53 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: piea adobo. It was this crazy Filipino Spanish. He sounds amazing. 54 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and he had like and he just his 55 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: blood pressure dropped. His zero. Oh ship died in his Airbnb. 56 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: That's horrible. That's horrible. Well, I'm kid. We are going 57 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: to talk about a lot of people dying in Spain today. 58 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: So that's the PDJ effect though, love you doubt that 59 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: that's there's actually this is actually gonna be a very 60 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: sad episode in a lot of ways. So that's an 61 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: appropriate emotional tone to start it off with. Yes, that 62 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: the buck Spain throws down his current Spain is not 63 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: your fault. Um. So we're gonna be talking about the 64 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Spanish Civil War today. Uh. And we left off last 65 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: time with the establishment of an actual, like real fat 66 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: organized fascist party in Spain. The philogists, Um, they went 67 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: the first, but they were the first to kind of like, 68 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't get it right as a weird phrase to 69 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: apply to fascism, but they were. They were the Spanish 70 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: fascists who would um become kind of the watchword for 71 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: Spanish fascism. When people talk about the fascists in Spain, 72 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: they're talking about the philogists, you know, Yeah, the philangers 73 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: um fa lenx is, which kind of also I think 74 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: that I think philanges comes from fai lenx because it's 75 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: that word for that Greek military you know, where you 76 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: have a shiploaded dudes standing in like a series of lines, 77 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: all supporting each other in kind of like a hand. 78 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: I don't know that'd be, my guests, I'm not a 79 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: worder So the oddest thing about the phlogists, um is 80 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: that alone among fascists pretty much any period I'm aware of, 81 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: they well except for maybe the modern period, they were 82 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: giant wosses to start out with. And this may be 83 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: due to the fact talked a lot about how like 84 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: World War One is why the Italian and German fascists 85 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: were terrifying people, um, because they, you know, we're very 86 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: comfortable killing people. Spain stayed out of World War One. 87 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: Most of the early fascists were like more on this 88 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: like fascist intellectuals than street fighters, and they weren't initially 89 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: very willing to use force. Now they talked about violence 90 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: a lot um. And Jose Antonio, their leader, was definitely 91 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: a fascist, but he was very uncomfortable with physical violence, 92 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: even when when it was directed at him and it 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: was repeatedly, he was loath to actually organize retaliatory violence. 94 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: During his speech he gave after his party's unification with 95 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: the John Seasta's, a leftist gunman opened fire, intending to 96 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: kill Jose Antonio, and instead killing a spectator and wounding 97 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: for other people. The fascists launched no reprisals against the 98 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: left in response, which is like you you look at 99 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: Germany or Italy's is very strange. Yeah, very different than 100 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: it was elsewhere. Um. And the kind of unwillingness in 101 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: this period of the Fascionists to use violence lead one 102 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: columnist for a right wing newspaper to note sarcastically, so 103 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: that everything will be incongruous here it is that the 104 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: fascists who are made to swallow castor oil, which is 105 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: referring to the fact that in Italy the fascists would 106 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: force castor oil down the throats of their enemies to 107 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: make them ship themselves, sometimes to death. Like it was 108 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: a horrible torture, Like they thought it was funny, but 109 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 1: it killed people. And this guy's being like in Italy 110 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: the fascists make their enemies drink castor oil. Here we 111 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: have to drink the castor oil, right, because we're not 112 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 1: willing to use violence. Um. That's weird. It is very odd. 113 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: It does not last. But this is a period of 114 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: time early in the fascist So also, every black person's 115 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: grandma made them drink castor oil at some point. Sucks 116 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: one of those you know that you know that, Um 117 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: that image Macro from from the movie Predator, where uh, 118 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: those two guys are shaking hands and the meeting in 119 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: the middle Italian fascists. Black. Grandma's feeding people castor oil. Yes, 120 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: grandma's stomach was just just give me. Look, it had 121 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: been fine. Just let me drink some water. God drink 122 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: this castle. Can't teller no either, tell the black woman no, 123 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: I dare you? And they were, you know, the Italians 124 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: were giving people much larger to like it killed people sometimes. Yeah. 125 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: Other Phalangists leaders were happier to endorse physical violence than 126 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: Jose Antonio was, but for a little while, initially a 127 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: number of them kind of felt like it was good 128 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: to have some of their members gutted down by the left. 129 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: When one Phalangist was killed in the movement's first street fight, 130 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: it was thought that the brawl had been a successful 131 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: baptism of fire. Basically, we're trying to ramp these people 132 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: up to violence, so it's good that we're like this. 133 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: It's positive for us that we're being tested with like 134 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: deadly force. Um. This was some people's attitude initially, but 135 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: the deaths kept coming, and for a while they were 136 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: entirely caused by leftists. Most of this violence occurred between 137 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four and nineteen thirties six, during a period 138 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: of escalating political violence that historians call the militarization of 139 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: politics during the Second Republic, And when you're talking about 140 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: at least the violence that was between fascists and the left, 141 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: it was pretty one sided for a while. While fascists 142 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: being fascists always talked about violence, Jose Antonio particularly resisted 143 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: putting the party on a militant footing. Now, this was 144 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: unpopular within the movement, and one internal meeting, Jose Antonio 145 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: expressed his desire to engage the left in the dialectic 146 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: of fists and pistols, but he was kind of being 147 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: more metaphorical than anything right, like we're gonna have like 148 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: the verbal equivalent of war, And he was kind of 149 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: himming and hawing around because he wasn't really willing to 150 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: commit fully at this point. Meanwhile, one of his colleagues 151 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: in the same meeting expressed a desire to treat leftists 152 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: as enemies in a state of war. Now, there were 153 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: discussions within the party of overthrowing Jose Antonio and replacing 154 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: him with a more violent fascist because he just wasn't 155 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: willing to kill fast enough. Um and these suggestions were 156 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: shot down because they couldn't really exist without him. At 157 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 1: this point, the police kept shutting down their party offices, 158 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: so the only place they could gather was Jose Antonio's 159 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: law offices. He was also like the one who had money, 160 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: um and so they couldn't A lot of people were 161 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: angry at him, but they couldn't really exist without him. 162 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: Um on A. Simo Redondo, who was another Phalangeious leader 163 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: uh and probably the one who urged violence most openly 164 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: around the same time, was very willing to kind of 165 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: go against Jose Antonio and say people like we should 166 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: be we should be ready to kill people in the streets. 167 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: In December of nineteen thirty three, he promised his followers 168 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: a situation of absolute violences approaching. And I'm gonna quote 169 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: now from a speech he gave to phalangeiost youth, young workers, 170 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: young Spaniards. Prepare your weapons, get used to the crack 171 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: of the pistol. Caress your dagger. Be inseparable from your 172 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: vindictive club. Young people must be trained in physical combat, 173 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: must love violence as a system, must arm themselves with 174 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: whatever they can, and must be prepared to finish off 175 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: by whatever means. A few dozen Marxist imbosts there's a 176 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: lot that in there. Yeah, I'm really and when he's 177 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: saying there, when he especially when he says they must 178 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: love violence as a system, he's kind of yeah, spanishifying 179 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: the concept the Italians had and that the Germans developed 180 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: of like the cult of action for action's sake, the 181 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: almost this almost worship of violence as an an end 182 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: in and of itself. Um, you're seeing that start to 183 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: percolate into Spanish fascist culture in this period. Now more 184 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: than a dozen Phalangists and other fascists were killed by 185 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: anarchists and communists before the fascist right properly organized itself 186 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: for violence, but organized themselves for violence they did. And 187 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from the book Fascism in Spain. 188 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: The point of inflection in the political violence took place 189 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: on Sunday, June tenth. The Chibberries of the Young Socialists 190 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: had been prohibited by authorities from marching in the streets 191 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: of Madrid, but during the warm weather organized regular weekend 192 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: outings to the Cassa de Campo recreation area on the 193 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: west side of Madrid. On the tenth a group of 194 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: Phalangists intercepted them, and the usual fight took place, and 195 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: he teen year old Phalangeists Juan Queler, son of a 196 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: police inspector, was killed and his corpse was subsequently mutilated, 197 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: his head apparently crushed with rocks. One of ensaldo squads 198 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: was quick to respond, allegedly without obtaining approval from the 199 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: tree Embers who directed the party the Fascist Party. Later 200 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: that evening, as a bus transporting the young socialist excursionists 201 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: unloaded some of them in Madrid, a car full of 202 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: Phalangist Pistolero's, personally led by Ensaldo, who's a Fascist militant, 203 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: was waiting. It slowly passed the young couple on the sidewalk, 204 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: spraying them with bullets. A twenty year old shop clerk, 205 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: Juanito Rico, was killed. The Phalangists claimed she had been 206 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: involved in desecrating the corpse. Her twenty one year old 207 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: brother was left permanently disabled and several others were wounded. 208 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: Four days earlier, a Phalangist smallholder in Torre perogl Jane 209 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: Province had been killed during a farm workers strike, so 210 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: that Queller was the fifteenth or sixteenth John Cista or 211 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: Phialangist killed since the John Ceesta teenager had been slain 212 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: by assault guards, which are like socialist militants, and uh 213 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: May of nineteen thirty two, all the others had been 214 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: killed by the left, though numerous leftists had been injured 215 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: by philogists and street of phrase and university assaults, Rico 216 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: was the first leftist fatality at their hands. For years, 217 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: she would be commemorated as the first victim of fascism 218 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: in Spain. So that's really the start of Yeah, yeah, 219 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: there's so much there, man. Like first of all, I'm 220 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: still dangling at the phrase dialectic of fists and pencils. 221 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's that's raptists and pistols. Yeah, I thought pencils. No, 222 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: no fist, dialectic fist like a conversation, Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 223 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: I I actually yeah, yours is better. Yeah. I was 224 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: like yeah, I was like, yo, those are bars man, Okay. 225 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: And then also, you know, there's there's a part of 226 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: like you know, and then it's a strange like survival 227 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: tactic or just just a byproduct of like just being 228 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: around like inner city just kind of like gang violence 229 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: that like you the desensitization of it, like where you're 230 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: just like you know, people die daily. You know what 231 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like you just kind of like get used 232 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: to and used to such a bad word to explain 233 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say. But no, no, you but 234 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: you get it. It's like violence is just a part 235 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: of life and and it. But it's still like even 236 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: knowing that, you know, I'm an adult, you know, I'm 237 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: moved out with you know, done so many different things 238 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: now and it's not like I still don't live in 239 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: an active community. But like, um, at the same time, though, 240 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: like like I was crazy, like Okay, so that shooting, 241 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: the shooting at that walmart in Texas, Uh yeah, yeah, 242 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: chance shooting. Yeah a chance shooting. Yeah. Like I watched 243 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: the video of like a cell phone video of like 244 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: you know, like a hood dude that was at the 245 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: walmart that I've when the shooting started. He was just 246 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: like that, that's crazy fool shooting. We probably better slide out. 247 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: How calm he was is because of how we grew up, 248 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So you're just like somebody 249 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: gotta tech. All that's a tech I know what that is, 250 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And it's like it's so 251 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: weird because it's just a weird thing. So we so 252 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: when I hear this, when I hear y'all talk, when 253 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, we talk about this like moment of this 254 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: like political upheaval, there's still part of me that goes, 255 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: but I still don't understand why you're killing each other, 256 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And then and then the 257 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: idea of how I gave that whole preference to say, 258 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: it's still jolting to hear the type of like mutilation. 259 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: Now you have somebody with a rock and then like 260 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: like got dog, like you know, you know, like crazy 261 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: you gotta be to blunt force trauma killer person like 262 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: that's It's just I don't know anyway, it's just going 263 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: on here. I think you're It's very important to point 264 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: out the desensitization that occurs during this that that's why 265 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: the phrase is used that like um um, the militarization 266 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: of politics, it's a process that starts in thirty one 267 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: and doesn't really reach its apothesis until nineteen thirty six 268 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: when the Civil War starts. But it's a process of 269 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: getting people ready to that of escalating street violence. And 270 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: you see that just within the Fascist Party, where initially 271 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: the fascists are willing to fight. There's brawls in the 272 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: street from day one, right as soon as there's fascists, 273 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: before the Jones Eastas merge with UM with Jose Antonio's group, 274 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: there's street fighting and stuff. But it when the killing 275 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: starts a lot of these fascists because these are not 276 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: and and again we get to the civil war, A 277 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: significant chunk of the fascist military are combat veterans, and 278 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: and these are the guys who come up from Africa. Um. 279 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: But these these dudes who are actually in Iberia, they 280 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: don't have experience killing people, not not by and large. 281 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: And it takes number one, it takes time of some 282 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: of them being killed before they really start responding with 283 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: deadly violence. As a matter of course, and once you 284 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: have that on both sides, once you have anarchists and 285 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: communists and and other kinds of like left socialists killing 286 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: fascists in the streets and fascists committing murder right back 287 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: and vice versa, then you have this. It starts to 288 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: ramp up the whole kind of level of comfort with 289 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: deadly violence in society up to a level that you 290 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: can have the kind of war that we're about to 291 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: talk about. But you're right, it is a process, um. 292 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: And I think in terms of like how people would 293 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: justify like bashing the kid's head in with Iraq and 294 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: desecrating his corpse, It's less about that guy. It's not 295 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: that individual, dude. They were probably angry, but they're looking 296 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: at what's happening in Spain and in Germany and what 297 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: fashion the concentration camps that have already been set up, 298 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: the mass executions of leftists in Italy and in Germany, 299 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: the thousands who are already dead, and they're going the 300 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: only way to stop that here is to kill as 301 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: many of And and you can argue that was that 302 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: that was the wrong tact. Take that. You could argue that, 303 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: you could argue that it actually raised the level of 304 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: violence to a point where you were able to have 305 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: this open conflict that the left doesn't win. But at 306 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: the time, all they know is they see what's happening 307 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: in Germany and in Italy, and they think, I don't 308 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: know what else to do but be vient, you know, 309 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: And I yeah, it's it's fucked like the whole situation. Yeah, 310 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, that's the thing where you're like, okay, 311 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: they you know, the streets. Shit, that's like you know, 312 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: they take one, we take four exactly one of ours. 313 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: We kill for yours, you know. And and it's supposed 314 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: to be the Trent. And that means like, okay, so 315 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm saying this to say, don't kill ours. Yeah, and 316 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: you call it, I mean it is street ship. But 317 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: it's also like U S military policy massive retaliation. Right, 318 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: And this is what speaking of us in speaking of 319 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: like US history, recent history and the history of like 320 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: terrorism on the right. Tim McVeigh when he blew up 321 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: the Murrah building was very consciously being like, I this 322 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: is the kind of reaction. Uh, this is like I 323 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: am attacking the government because they killed all these people 324 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: in Waco, and I learned that this is an acceptable 325 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: His argument was, I learned this was an acceptable way 326 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: to respond to violence because that's how the military trained me. Right. 327 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: You can quibble with how honest McVeigh was being there, 328 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: but like hard not to see some through lines. You know, 329 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: you look at the first Iraq War or the more 330 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: reason like right, it's it is the way everything works, right, Yeah, 331 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: how how the idea of how the idea of Pearl Harbor, Yeah, 332 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: is equivalent to Roshima. Yeah right, yeah, Well you take 333 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: out a base, we take out an island. Yeah, it's 334 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, and collective punishment. There's a lot to 335 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: say about all of that. We need to move on 336 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: to the yeah, because I'm pretty sure you wrote seventy yeah, 337 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: more or less. Now, while all of this was happening, 338 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: while the Philangists were starting to commit murder and stuff, 339 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: and and the fighting between left and right is escalating 340 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: in Spain, well, all this is happening on the ground, 341 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: the political situation and like the actual like elected politics 342 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: and stuff is continuing to unravel. And this is due 343 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: in large part to the fact that the Africanistas, who 344 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: were again the members of the Spanish military who had 345 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: fought in Morocco, were increasingly frustrated with the Republic in 346 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, So just like a year after the 347 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: Republic starts, one general, a guy named san Juro, launches 348 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: a coup that fails. But rather than wonder if the 349 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: African Eastas weren't a problem and a threat to democracy, 350 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: the government brought in Franco and his foreign legion to 351 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: massacre anarchists and communists during their nineteen thirty four uprising. 352 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: Where the foreign legion executes more than a thousand people. Um. So, 353 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: the Republic knows that the military, these African veterans are 354 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: a problem and also uses them to crush the left 355 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: when the left rises up, because you know, governments generally 356 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: not smart. Um. So a gap begins to form during 357 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: the Republican period between the the the the junta's officers 358 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: in the peninsula who supported the Republic, and the Africanistas 359 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: who the junta is called stormtroopers. Um. Now, by nineteen 360 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: thirty six, the political situation, which had simmered for years, 361 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: broke out into an open boil. The explanation as to 362 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: why starts with the Popular Front. In nineteen thirty four, 363 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: the USSR announced that given the worldwide advance of fascism, 364 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: it was now acceptable for good communists to make political 365 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 1: alliances with other left wing groups. This included both moderate 366 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: liberals and people like anarchists and even in some cases 367 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: like Trotskyists, which communists trot Skits are communists too. They 368 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: don't like each other, right, um, And this is this 369 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: is a real big change. And we talked about in 370 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: our in our the non Nazi bastards who made Hitler 371 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why the left failed to stop 372 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: the Nazis is that the Communist Party in Germany, which 373 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: was you know, generally under orders from Moscow UH, called 374 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 1: the Social Democrats social fascists. And I'll admit right now 375 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: we weren't entirely fair to the Communists in that episode. 376 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: The Social diffic It's did some really fucked up stuff 377 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: to the Communist that we will talk about later in 378 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: this very series. UM. They had good reasons to distress 379 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: the Social Democrats. That said, the failure to work with 380 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: them to stop Hitler was very clearly a mistake. Like 381 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: and the USSR admits that is like, you know what, 382 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's necessary in countries facing fascism for there 383 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: to be for for us to allow communists are kind 384 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: of communist at least to have a broad popular front 385 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: with other people in the left. UM. And this is 386 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: a very successful idea politically, UM. And in fact, there 387 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: was also a popular Front in France that that succeeded 388 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: in pushing some major reforms, and we will talk about 389 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: that later too. The tactic worked very well politically electorally 390 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 1: in Spain. The Popular Front swept the nineteen thirty six elections. UM. 391 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: But in a way that will be familiar to everyone listening. 392 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: They did so in a way that enraged the right wing. 393 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: And it's not hard to see why the right felt 394 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: like they've been cheated. Right Wing parties pulled four million, 395 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: five hundred and five thousand, five hundred two votes and 396 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: gained a twenty four seats in the nineteen thirty six election. Now, 397 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: the Popular Front only got about a hundred and sixty 398 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: thousand more votes, but they gained two hundred and seventy 399 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: eight seats, So they get a hundred and sixty thousand 400 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: more votes in an election with nine or ten million 401 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: votes twice as many seats. You can see why people 402 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: on the right would be like kind of piste about 403 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: this right. Um, and there may have been cheating. I 404 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: don't really know, Like it's I'm not going to get 405 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: into whether or not there was cheating. What's important is 406 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: that the right felt that they had been cheated, right. 407 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: That's what actually matters, as opposed to whether or not 408 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: there was um any kind of electoral malfeasance. UM. And 409 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: of course the c e d A that Catholic kind 410 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: of right wing party, that's the dominant right wing party, 411 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: and the Phalangists, the fascists absolutely would have cheated themselves 412 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 1: in this election, and they actually they probably did. Um 413 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, when Roblez, the head 414 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: of the c E d A, realized that he wasn't 415 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: going to be appointed prime minister after the nineteen thirty 416 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: six election, he started negotiating with African EASTA generals to 417 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: try to convince them to do a coup to force it, like, 418 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: to put him into power um as a dictator basically. 419 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: Uh And he failed, but there was a lot of 420 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: sympathy for the ideal. While the left looked at the 421 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: Phalanges and the c E d A and saw Hitler 422 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: and Mussolini, the right looked at the Popular Front and 423 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: saw it as the inevitable prelude to Soviet style state communism. 424 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: Uh And I'm going to quote from a write up 425 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: in lumen dot UK right now. When this coalition came 426 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: to power, popular unrest in the countryside exploded into land seizures, 427 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: encouraged by radical anarchists. So as soon as like the 428 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: Popular Front wins the election, the anarchists are like, we're 429 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: we're going to do our thing now, like it's time 430 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: to it's time to take power for the people. There 431 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: was little attempt by the anarchists to moderate their behavior 432 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: and no demands to allow the Popular Front to reassure 433 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: moderate elements. In Spain, a c and T, which is 434 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: an anarchist party conference held in May nineteen thirty six, 435 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: was full of revolutionary language. It seemed that the New 436 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: Republic had not been able to control the major revolutionary group. 437 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: The murder of a former finance minister, Jose Calvo Sotelo, 438 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: on thirteenth July nineteen thirty six, was the trigger for 439 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: the war, and much the same way as the assassination 440 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: of arch Franz Ferdinand had sparked the First World War. 441 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: So Tello had been an exile from nineteen to thirty four, 442 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: but had returned to become a leading right wing figure 443 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: associated with the Spanish Fascists and a deputy for the 444 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: Spanish Revival Group. He clashed with the Socialists and the 445 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: Assembly and was murdered by left wing members of the 446 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: Civil Guard. So you have a couple of things happened. 447 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: The Popular Front wins election, the anarchists just start seizing 448 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: the ship out of land and saying, like the revolution, 449 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: we're doing a revolution um it's happening. And at the 450 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: same time, another left wing group of left wing people 451 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: murders a popular right wing politician. Um. So this all 452 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: kind of snowballs into the start of the Civil war, 453 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: you know. Okay, Now, when the c E d A 454 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: lost the election, that was kind of it for them, um, 455 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: and most of the party, like after failing to win 456 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: in thirty six, just kind of gets fully on board 457 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: with authoritarianism. One scholar writes that everyone got the message 458 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: to quote, abandon the ballot box and take up arms. 459 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: The c E d a s youth movement collapses. Yeah, yeah, 460 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: that's so like the the Young Republicans. Basically they collapse 461 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: overnight and they all joined the Phalange. So all of 462 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: the young like conservatives who had been in the c 463 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: e d A and trying to get out the vote 464 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: immediately joined the fascist party and start picking up guns. Um, 465 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: And street fighting and political murders reach a fever pitch 466 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: in this in this period. Now, the quote I read 467 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: earlier mentioned land seizures by the CNT and other groups 468 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: of anarchists. Um. And it's actually true that in the 469 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: trade unions major strongholds, the areas where the anarchists the 470 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: anarchist Trade Union was most powerful Barcelona, Zaragosa and Seville. 471 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: There was actually very little in the way of like 472 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: strikes or mass demonstrations in the lead up to the war. 473 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: The CNT tried to keep their people kind of calm um. 474 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of their anarchists, right, A 475 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: lot of them aren't part of the CNT, and a 476 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: bunch of them and a bunch of socialists occupy land 477 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: in battles which took over seventh And like this land occupation. 478 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: I mentioned at the start of the Republic that they 479 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: took about ten percent of the undeveloped land and gave 480 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: it to peasants. This occupation of land and batty yaws 481 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: takes seven times that much land and starts redistributing it 482 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 1: to like peasants um. And this fucking terrifies the rich 483 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: people in Spain. If you've at this point, the anarchists 484 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: have fucked with the money, right, I'm talked about about 485 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: the money. You funked up the money I talked about 486 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: how like Trump a big part of why on the 487 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: day on the six, like all these fucking banks started 488 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: coming out of like Chase Bank and Chevron are like 489 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: like condemning President Trumble because with the money, you can't 490 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: suck up the money. Doc can't suck up the money. 491 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: And of course anarchists are all about like they want 492 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: to funk up. That's the point, which is one of 493 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: the things I like about them, not saying that's wrong, 494 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: but they funk up the money, and that that gets 495 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: a lot of the a lot of rich people, a 496 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: lot of like the Spanish, kind of like ruling class 497 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: on board some sort of revolution against the left. Now 498 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: in Spain, the seizure of Batta Yaws convinces a lot 499 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: of these like rich people that the government can't guarantee 500 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: stability anymore. So while past coup attempts by generals had 501 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: generally folded due to a lack of support from the 502 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: dominant classes, who didn't want to see a coup, right, 503 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: they didn't like the left, but I don't want to 504 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: have like a coup again, by nineteen thirty six a 505 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: lot more of those folks are like, you know what, 506 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: it's either a coup or we don't get to be 507 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: rich people anymore. And they do what rich people do. 508 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: Who it is, who it is. So the government had 509 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: known that the African easta generals weren't super trustworthy, which 510 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: is why they tried to post the ring leaders, General 511 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: Franco and a guy named General Mola to the Canary 512 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: Islands and Pamplona, respectively, right keep them out of the 513 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: center of ship. But these guys were still collaborating with 514 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: a codra of other officers, and on July seventeenth, under 515 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: orders from Franco, troops and Morocco rebelled, and obviously the 516 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: foreign legion are kind of like the core of this. 517 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: Over the next three days, military units and commanders all 518 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: over Spain rose up against the legitimate government, and the 519 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: hope from Franco and his fellows had been that they 520 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: would swiftly take control of major cities, jail their political opponents, 521 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: and install a dictator like they've done with de Revere 522 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: and not all that long ago. Right very comes to 523 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: power like a decade or so earlier, so they were 524 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: hoping it would follow that trend. But the left was 525 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: way more organized now and it did not work out 526 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: that way. And I'm gonna quote now from a write 527 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: up in the New Left Review. Confidence in a rapid 528 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: rebel victory was quickly dispelled when the insurrection in most 529 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: major cities, notably Madrid and Barcelona, was crushed in the 530 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: streets by a combination of loyal security forces and political 531 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: and trade union militants. Where this combination failed or the 532 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: security forces went over to the rebels, the rising was 533 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: almost immediately successful, as in Seville and Saragosa. The fact 534 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: that less than half the army and security forces united 535 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: behind the rebellion was the principal reason why the coup 536 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: failed in its principal objective and turned into a civil war. 537 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: Now that's not the unified opinion on things, right, the 538 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: idea that yeah, they're they're significant debate over why the 539 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: coup failed, right, because he does fail. Right, the speciest 540 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: win in the end, But they don't get they don't 541 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: succeed by coup. They have to fight a war. And 542 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: a lot of scholars will actually argue a lot of 543 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: them will argue that, well, it was the security because 544 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: most of the security forces didn't go with the rebels, 545 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: that's why the rebels didn't win immediately. A lot of 546 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: scholars will also argue that actually the bulk of the 547 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: credit for halting rebel victory goes to local militias, which 548 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: are kind of spontaneously organized just because a bunch of 549 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: people started picking up guns. The argument is that in 550 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: the wake of the coup, the Spanish military and the 551 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: Republican government lost basically all cohesion incredibility, which they did, right, 552 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 1: like half of your military like decides to overthrow the government. 553 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: Not a lot of people had to have faith in 554 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: the government. And the arrest of all can't stop these 555 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: people from taking my land from me. Yeah, like y'all. 556 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: And the reason that Franco and his allies, these the 557 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: scholars who will kind of take this out of it, 558 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: argue that the reason Franco and his allies didn't win 559 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: immediately is that hundreds of thousands of civilians took to 560 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: the streets and these is a general rule in the 561 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: early days, these citizens militias. Um, these people were just 562 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: like picking up their grandpa's hunting rifle or in a 563 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: lot of cases looting sporting goods stores, like busting like 564 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: busting into like a fucking a sportsman warehouse and just 565 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: taking all the guns. Okay, like we need guns, these 566 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: guys have them, let's grab them. Um. And you know 567 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: there's later too, there's looting off like military barracks is 568 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: but like, yeah, they just get whatever guns they fucking 569 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: can and they start fighting the African Eastas, who are 570 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: at that point very experienced, disciplined and well equipped veterans. UM. 571 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: So it's like this mix if you've got hundreds of 572 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: thousands of men and women, because women are a part 573 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: of the fighting forces briefly in this period, just picking 574 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: up whatever guns they can get and going to war 575 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: against one of the most veteran military units in all 576 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: of Europe. Um. In his nineteen six essay on the matter, 577 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: Morae book Chin writes quote to have stopped Franco's Army 578 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: of Africa, composed of foreign legionnaires and Moorish mercenaries, perhaps 579 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: the bloodthirsty ist and certainly one of the most professionalized 580 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: troops at the disposal of any European nation at the time, 581 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: and it's well trained civil guards and political auxiliaries would 582 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: have been thing less than miraculous once it established a 583 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: strong base on the Spanish mainland. That hastily formed, untrained 584 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: and virtually unequipped militiamen and women slowed Franco's Army's advance 585 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: on Madrid for four months and essentially stopped it on 586 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: the outskirts of the Capitol is a feat for which 587 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: they have rarely earned the proper tribute from writers on 588 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: the Civil War of the past century. Wow yeah yeah, 589 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: just everyone picking up their guns and being like fuck 590 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: these guys, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I 591 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 1: think there's like this you know, um yeah. The miracle 592 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: that they was actually able to stop this fool or 593 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: these dudes is like yeah, it's I mean, obviously ultimately 594 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: they don't. But like that, I think about like what 595 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: we used to call like like dad strong. You know, 596 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: like you you just you're you don't you know your 597 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: dad's strong, but you don't, like you don't really believe it, 598 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And then you're like then 599 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: you're sixteen and you want to like throw hands with him, 600 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, and then he just lays 601 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: you out flat, you know what I mean. You're like, 602 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: I don't I I didn't expect you to be this strong. 603 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: You know that. To me sometimes it's like I feel 604 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: like that with like military dudes that are like super trained, 605 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: where it's like you think, you think you can take them, 606 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh, yeah, no, you're actually trained. 607 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: This is not a game. So so knowing that, but 608 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: then the fact that just the that these just untrained 609 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: militias were still able to like, yeah, pull this off, 610 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: you know, four months of brutal fighting. Yeah, and they 611 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: lose a funk load of thousands, like and it and 612 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: it is. It is a very lopsided kill ratio at 613 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: this point, right, because you're you are these are some 614 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: of the most veteran military units in all of Europe, right, Um, 615 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: going up against like fucking Grandpa and grandma with hunting rifles, right, Yeah, 616 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: it's it's ugly, It is ugly. But they they slow, 617 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: They stopped Franco from winning in the thirties six, you know, 618 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: and there seems to be very little debate about that 619 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: that they were Some people argue how critical, but they 620 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: were critical in stopping the nationalists, which is what the 621 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: other thing the rebels are called at the Gates of Madrid, 622 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: and that they're not the only ones. We'll talk a 623 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: little bit about the We're gonna talk about the international 624 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: brigades in a second, um, but first you have to 625 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: take an ad break, sir. You know who else would 626 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: have stopped Franco at the gates of Madrid, Sophie, Yeah, 627 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: Sophie would have Um Sophie would have backed by the 628 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: militant products and services that support this podcast. Yes, including 629 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: Sportsman's Warehouse where you two can steal guns to fight 630 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: the fat Well now, okay, maybe not might be the 631 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: wisest okay products. Adoption of teams from foster care is 632 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: a topic not enough people know about. In we are 633 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: here to change that. I'm April Dinnuity, host of the 634 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt Us Kids. 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What else grows 642 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: in the forest, Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and 643 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect from 644 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. 645 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest 646 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring. I discover the forest dot 647 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: org brought to you by the United States Forest Service 648 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: and the AD Council. Look for your children's eyes to 649 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: see the true magic of a four It's a storybook 650 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: world for them. You look and see a tree. 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We're back, 658 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: and for a brief time in nineteen thirty six, the 659 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: Spanish Republican military was vastly dominated by, as opposed to 660 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: like a kind of traditional military, a dizzying array of independent, 661 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: interlocking and largely democratic militias. Most of the militias are 662 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: either anarchist or trotskyist, So there's the c n T 663 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: and the p o U M, and then there's groups 664 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: that aren't a part of this, but like a largely 665 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: they're either anarchist or kind of trotskyist, and both are 666 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: heavily democratic. So men and women take up arms together, 667 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: they vote for their leaders, so their officers are elected. 668 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: It in recallable. Um and yeah, it's it's it, it is. 669 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: You know, there's critiques to make up the system. We'll 670 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: talk about that a bit, but that's what the military 671 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: is at this point in ninety six. It's largely just 672 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: a funckload of these militias because the actual military is 673 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: not in a good way, you know, very chaotic and 674 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: disorganized itself. And in a lot of cases, because of 675 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: the fact that a lot of the military had rebelled, 676 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: soldiers will leave their units and join militias. So it's 677 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: very complicated. Please do not take this as a comprehensive 678 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: or particularly in depth explanation of what happens with the 679 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: Spanish militia system in the Republican like. It is incredibly complicated. 680 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: This is an overview. This is all an overview. The 681 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 1: Spanish Civil war is is very very complex. Um So. Yeah, 682 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: and while this is happening, while while all these democratic 683 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: militias are rising up to fight the fascists in the countryside, 684 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: behind the lines and sometimes right up to the lines, 685 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: something equally interesting is happening. I'm gonna quote Marae book 686 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: Chains article here in. The wave of collectivizations that swept 687 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: over Spain in the summer and autumn of nineteen thirty 688 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: six has been described in a recent BBC Granada documentary 689 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: as the greatest experiment and workers self management. Western Europe 690 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: has ever seen a revolution more far reaching than any 691 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: which occurred in Russia during nineteen seventeen to twenty one 692 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: and the years before and after it an anarchist industrial 693 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: areas like Catalonia and estimated three quarters of the economy 694 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: was placed under workers control as it was an anarchist 695 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: rural areas like Aragon. The figure of tapers downward, where 696 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: the U, G T, which is another group shared power 697 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: with the C and T or else predominated fifty percent 698 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: in anarchist and socialist Valencia and thirty percent in socialist 699 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: In liberal Madrid and more thoroughly anarchist areas, particularly among 700 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: the agrarian collectives, Money was eliminated and the material means 701 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: of life were allocated strictly according to need rather than work, 702 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: following the traditional concepts of a libertarian communist society. As 703 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: the BBC Granada television documentary puts it, the ancient dream 704 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: of a collective society without profit or property was made reality. 705 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: In the villages of Aragon, all forms of production were 706 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: owned by the community, run by their workers. And again, 707 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: as books and notes, this is not you know, this 708 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: is different everywhere that in Republican Spain. But in Catalonia, 709 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: which has a lot of industrial areas, three quarters of 710 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: the industrial economy is directly controlled by the workers manning 711 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,720 Speaker 1: these factories, as opposed to them like even having elected 712 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: bosses and stuff. Um, which is really interesting. Um, it's 713 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: it's something that doesn't happen. Yeah, yeah, Like how long 714 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: was it like kind of working. There's debate as to 715 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: how long it worked, but a couple of yeah, generally speaking, 716 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: a year or two. You know, It's it's different in 717 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: different regions. We're going to talk about what happens there. Um. 718 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: Bookshon continues. The administrative apparatus of Republican Spain belonged almost 719 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: entirely to the unions and their political organizations. Police in 720 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: many cities were replaced by armed workers patrols. Militia units 721 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: were formed everywhere in factories, on farms, and in socialist 722 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: and anarchist community centers and union halls, initially including women 723 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: as well as men. A vast network of local revolutionary 724 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: committees coordinated the feeding of the cities, the operations of 725 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: the economy, and the meeting out of justice. Indeed almost 726 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: every facet of Spanish life, from production to culture, bringing 727 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: the whole of Spanish society and the Republican zone into 728 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: a well organized and coherent whole. This historically unprecedented appropriation 729 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: of society by its most oppressed sectors, including women, who 730 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: were liberated from all the constraints of a highly traditional 731 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: Catholic country, be it the prohibition of abortion or and divorce, 732 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: or a degraded stats in the economy, was the work 733 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: of the Spanish proletariat and peasantry. It was a movement 734 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,240 Speaker 1: from below that overwhelmed even the revolutionary organizations of the impressed, 735 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: including the C and T. Significantly, no left organization issued 736 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: calls for revolutionary takeovers of factories, workplaces or the land, 737 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: observes Ronald Fraser and one of the most up to 738 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: date accounts of the popular movement. Indeed, the C and 739 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: T leadership in Barcelona, epicenter of urban anarcho syndicalism, went 740 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: further rejecting the offer of power presented to it by 741 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: President Companies, the head of the Catalan government. It decided 742 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: that the libertarian revolution must stand aside for collaboration with 743 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: the Popular Front forces to defeat the common enemy. The 744 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,439 Speaker 1: revolution that transformed Barcelona in a matter of days into 745 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: a city virtually run by the working class sprang initially 746 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: from individual c and t unions impelled by their most 747 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: advanced militants, and as their example spread, it was not 748 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: only large enterprises, but small workshops and businesses that were 749 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: being taken over. So a bookstion is saying there is 750 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: this is a true bottom up revolution. And even in 751 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: some cases this the anarchist trade union is like, don't 752 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: do this, we need to work with the government. We're 753 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: not calling for revolution, and the individual groups of workers 754 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: are like, no, we're just going to take over our office. 755 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: We're just taking over. That's fine, it's fine, that's fine. 756 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 1: And it proves to be a mixed bag, like we'll 757 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: we'll talk about this. There's fair critiques about what happens, 758 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: but it is amazing and unprecedented and one of the 759 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: great what ifs of histories. If there had not also 760 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: been this massive civil war in this just invasion, might 761 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,760 Speaker 1: it have worked you know, and they're under a pressure 762 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: that is kind of impossible to overcome in this intention, 763 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: but it is an interesting question. What is yeah, dude, 764 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: what is strange? Like it was strange because we've just 765 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: never seen it, but like, yeah, what was that year? 766 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: Like you know what I'm saying, like name rates were, 767 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: like what was the I don't say like petty crimes, 768 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, one of these days 769 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: I will do because I I don't know nearly enough 770 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: about this. One of these days I would like to 771 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 1: do like a hardcore history link, like a twelve hour 772 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: deep dive into the Spanish Civil War where it's mostly 773 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: focused on like, yeah, what what are these? Like what 774 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: are these? You your place? The cops with like citizens patrols? 775 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: How did that actually work? What was that? Like? What 776 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: are what are what are kind of like the first 777 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: person accounts we can have of those. Um, obviously we 778 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: don't have the time to go into that much detail today, 779 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: but it's definitely like, yeah, that would that would call 780 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: for like a twelve hour Yes, yes, it's a very 781 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,240 Speaker 1: complicated and this is just I'm hoping what this mostly 782 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: does is wet people's appetite to read more themselves, right, 783 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 1: which I am also going to do. But it's a 784 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: very interesting period of history. Now, obviously this system had 785 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: a number of upsides, if you want to call it 786 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: a system. What happens in Spain in this period has 787 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: a number of upsides. That mobilizes a huge portion of 788 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: the republic citizenry very quickly. Um it brings a people 789 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: into arms very rapidly, more rapidly probably than a central 790 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: government could have done. And these people were highly motivated 791 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 1: to resist fascism, but they also in large part weren't 792 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: motivated to live under the republic. And coordination between all 793 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: of these groups was very difficult and sometimes impossible. Meanwhile, 794 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: the rebels the nationalists had a strict military hierarchy, and 795 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: that's a benefit in a war sometimes, right, it can 796 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: also be you know, you can you can look at 797 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: the Germans in World War Two. It doesn't always work out. 798 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 1: But when you've got one side that's made up of 799 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: a thousand different fractious people who agree on some things 800 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: and disagree on a lot, that can deplete your ability 801 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 1: to counter attack and to organize effectively. Meanwhile, Franco winds 802 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: up and you know there's a scess he's not initially 803 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: the only guy, but eventually he's the only dude whose 804 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: opinion really matters. He's the guy at the top um 805 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: And and that happens fairly quickly, and Franco is able 806 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: to coordinate a centralized military in order to like like 807 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: attack this very decentralized folks. He's a sneaky guy. There's 808 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 1: also one of his fellow generals dies in a plane crash, 809 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: so some of it's just like dumb lot um. Now, 810 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: since the c E d A had failed that he 811 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: didn't he Franco didn't really want to like wrap himself 812 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: in the c E d a s flag because they've 813 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: gotten their asses kicked in the thirty six election. And 814 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 1: he kind of winds up embracing the philogists. And this 815 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,800 Speaker 1: is part of why people argue with Franco himself was 816 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: really a fascist. If he was just kind of co 817 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,280 Speaker 1: opting fascism, I don't really see the point in getting 818 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: involved in that. Franco gets in like wraps himself in 819 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: the Phalange Party and like like they become kind of 820 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: a dominant right wing force in this in the nationalist cause. Now, 821 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: Jose Antonio, who had been the leader of the Phalangists 822 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,600 Speaker 1: had been arrested by the republic right at the start 823 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: of the rebellion, and he was almost immediately executed for sedition, 824 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: even though he'd been incarcerated when the rebellion cooked off. Like, 825 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,880 Speaker 1: if you want to argue how just it was, he 826 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: didn't really have much to do with it. Um. But 827 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: they kill him, Um, And I'm not, I don't care 828 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: he's a fascist, Like, I'm not, I'm not gonna weep 829 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: over him. But Franco takes Jose Antonio and turns him 830 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: into a martyr, right, Um. And he also imprisons the 831 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: guy who takes over the Phalangists after Jose Antonio so 832 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: that he can turn the Phalangists into his own basically 833 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: like cult of personality, Yeah, exactly, um. And Franco co 834 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: opting the fascists had the side effect of making this war, 835 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: which had started as a conflict between Spanish left and 836 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: right and a conflict between you know, the Africanist military 837 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: and and the Republic, into the world's first open battle 838 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: ground between fascism and democracy, and the first three months 839 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: of the civil war were some of the bloodiest. Both 840 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: sides carried out a horrific series of assassinations is a 841 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: very the early period, there's this amazing rising up of 842 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: of the people to defend themselves, and there's also a 843 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 1: ton of fucking vigilante murders, and it does occur on 844 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: both sides. It's really ugly. And I'm going to read 845 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: a quote from the New Left Review here. Even so, 846 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: there were significant differences between the massacres on the left 847 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: and the right. Many voices unheard on the rebel side 848 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: were raised in the Republican Zone against the slaughter. By 849 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: early September, a new government under Largo Caballero began to 850 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: create a semblance of public order, which slowly put an 851 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,800 Speaker 1: endo the killings there, but not soon enough. News of 852 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: the anti clerical violence, which included the disinternament of nun's coffins, 853 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: widespread burning of churches, and desecration of religious objects, was 854 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 1: broadcast around the world, creating extremely negative international image of 855 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: the Republican Zone. Does not not good optics yet. Yeah, yeah, 856 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: look man, yeah, you messing with the nuns. Like we 857 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: all like, yeah that the nuns are fine guys. Yeah, 858 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: And we've talked earlier about how like you can you know, 859 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: there's arguments to be made about like, obviously there's a 860 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: lot of problematic priests part of but disentering nun's coffins, 861 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:07,280 Speaker 1: there's really that I know of. They're like, come on, okay, guys, yeah, 862 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: and it it is bad for the early rebel pr Now, 863 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,839 Speaker 1: on the rebel side, with occasional exception, tight censorship kept 864 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: the assassinations out of the news. The church, which would 865 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: soon sanctify the insurgents war, is a religious crusade turned 866 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: a blind eye though hundreds of clergy were witnessed through 867 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: oppression executed not only by the military but by Philangists 868 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: and normally law abiding conservative Catholic citizens. So of course 869 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: the church is both victim and perpetrator and a lot 870 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,439 Speaker 1: of and the death toll is much higher in terms 871 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: of people killed by the right than people killed by 872 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: the left. Um and again on in the republic there's 873 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: outcries against the vigilante violence, and on the right there's like, 874 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: don't talk about it, keep killing people, don't talk stop 875 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: just stop putting it on TV, Like, I mean, do 876 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: what you gotta do. But hey, yeah, Now, on the 877 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: Republican side, the two largest left wing groups at the 878 00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: start of the war, because the Communists are very small 879 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: at the start of the war. Again, because Spain doesn't 880 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,400 Speaker 1: industrialize into a lot later than a lot of the 881 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a very powerful communist party at this period. 882 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: At the start of things, the two largest and left 883 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 1: wing groups are the anarchists and the Trotskyists, and they 884 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 1: were immediately torn between stopping fascism at all costs and 885 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,839 Speaker 1: of course funk the state right like there's a there's 886 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: This is a tough choice for them. Now. The CNT, 887 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,800 Speaker 1: the largest anarchist organization, lands on the side of allying 888 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: with the state to fight fascism, but many local workers 889 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: councils were not on board. Now. While this is happening 890 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: in the early part of the war, the communists very 891 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: quickly come to hold significant power within the confusing and 892 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: fractious Republican military establishment now and they grow rapidly at 893 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: this period too, And this is due to the pretty 894 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: sensible fact that the communists had a communist state, the USSR, 895 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,239 Speaker 1: that they could go to and beg for aid right 896 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,879 Speaker 1: the like the USSR is provides aid we'll talk about 897 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: that a bit more to the republicans, And so the 898 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: communists very quickly gained a lot of power within the 899 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,879 Speaker 1: military establishment of the Republic. Now, unfortunately, the fascists also 900 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: had states they could go to for help, Italy and Germany, 901 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: And from the very beginning of this war they're Italian 902 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,320 Speaker 1: and German troops fighting on the ground alongside the nationalist 903 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,320 Speaker 1: Spanish troops. Um and unfortunately for everybody, the fascist states 904 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,879 Speaker 1: were way more willing to provide direct aid to their 905 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: side than the Communists were. I'm gonna quote again from 906 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: the New Left Review here. Without Fascist aid, most of 907 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: it provided on credit, the rebels would not long have 908 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 1: been able to continue the war, let alone win it. 909 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: Aside from the Nazis condor legion, Germany and Italy together 910 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,719 Speaker 1: provided tens of thousands of troops, mainly Italian, nearly six 911 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 1: hundred war planes, thousands of armored vehicles, and hundreds of 912 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: field guns. Equally important were the three point five million 913 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,759 Speaker 1: tons of oil provided on credit by Texico and Shell, 914 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: double the amount imported by the Republic, without which Franco's 915 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: army could not have maneuvered as rapidly as it did so. Yes, 916 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: the victory of the fascists in Spain owes a great 917 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 1: deal to our good friends Texico and Shell. My Texico 918 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,800 Speaker 1: and Shell. Should we back fascists or not fashion fascists? 919 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 1: Of course we're Texico. Yeah yeah, Oh my god, they 920 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: don't talk about that. No more. No, let me tell 921 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: you the last two names. I thought you was going 922 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 1: to say right now, yeah, Texico and Shell. I was like, 923 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:27,560 Speaker 1: I was like, wait, wait what yeah? Yeah? Uh so. 924 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: Not wanting to provoke Britain and France, with whom he 925 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: was still seeking an anti fascist alliance, Stalin initially held back, 926 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: but blatant Nazi and Fascist intervention increasingly alarmed him, ensuring 927 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 1: that all European powers were made aware that Soviet aid 928 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: to the Republic was not in support of advancing revolution. 929 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,000 Speaker 1: In October nineteen thirty six, the first Soviet shipment of 930 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 1: arms and the first contingent of the International Brigades reached 931 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: Madrid and the nick of time to help prevent the 932 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,000 Speaker 1: capital's fall. And all the Soviet unions since seven hundred 933 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 1: war planes and four armored vehicles, plus some two thousand pilots, engineers, 934 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,600 Speaker 1: military advisers, and in kV the secret police. Now there's 935 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: a lot. We're going to talk a lot about criticisms 936 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: of Soviet aid and of Soviet policy and this, and 937 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 1: there are a lot of valid ones to give, but 938 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,880 Speaker 1: it's also worth noting that Soviet AID was absolutely crucial 939 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,239 Speaker 1: in stopping Madrid from falling when Franco made his first advance, right, 940 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,760 Speaker 1: the milicias slowed it down, but without this hardcore military 941 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,239 Speaker 1: equipment they probably don't stop Franco from taking Madrid in 942 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,920 Speaker 1: ninety six. You know, I was gonna say, like, uh 943 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 1: that like tradition of like Communist Russia AID, I've been 944 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about that a little bit, Like you know, 945 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,239 Speaker 1: I'm stretching this as far as this this idea that 946 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: like the way that they exported AID in Communists like 947 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 1: block countries, like you know, at the like there was 948 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,399 Speaker 1: once upon a time like North Korea was actually doing 949 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: way better than South Korea, you know, because of this 950 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 1: Communists AID. You know what I'm saying a number of 951 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,280 Speaker 1: other reasons to like the nature of the Japanese invasion, 952 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,680 Speaker 1: but yeah, absolutely, you know, and then when I think 953 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:11,560 Speaker 1: about like Cuba, and I got I got friends from 954 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,879 Speaker 1: like you know, South Africa, Western African countries, Zambia, all 955 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,960 Speaker 1: these things, and they're like yo, you could say whatever 956 00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:22,880 Speaker 1: you want. They're like every every every nation in Africa 957 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,480 Speaker 1: got a Cuban doctor. You know what I'm saying. It 958 00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: just this idea that like it was like, it's just 959 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,000 Speaker 1: like when you the more I traveled, the more I 960 00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: started going day. Maybe they just think about aid and 961 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: they this is Understaalin. It's very like, for one thing, 962 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,080 Speaker 1: the Cuban medical aid, which is incredible. The way that 963 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,360 Speaker 1: the Cuban government sends out doctors, what Cuban doctors do 964 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,000 Speaker 1: and have been doing for decades is absolutely amazing. As 965 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: far as I know, it is done without any sort 966 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: of hope of recompense. The Soviets are getting paid very well. 967 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,760 Speaker 1: So when when Republican Spain happens, when there's the split, 968 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 1: the Republic winds up with Spain's gold stockpile, which is 969 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: the largest gold reserves on planet Earth at the time, 970 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,360 Speaker 1: about eight hundred and five million dollars and that that 971 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,920 Speaker 1: time's currency. Um And while the fascists provided aid to 972 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,080 Speaker 1: Franco on credit, right, Italy and Germany are like, you 973 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,200 Speaker 1: don't have to pay now, We'll just give you stuff 974 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: and you'll owe us. You'll pay us later, right, um. 975 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,840 Speaker 1: Stalin's like, you know I'm gonna need some cash up, 976 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,120 Speaker 1: do you I'm I'm Joseph Stalin. Like, I don't just 977 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 1: give people ship, you know. Um, he does later in 978 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,439 Speaker 1: the war a bit he was him alone. But where 979 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,880 Speaker 1: he they they So about eight hundred five million dollars 980 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 1: is what Spain's gold reserves the Republican Spain's gold reserves 981 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,680 Speaker 1: are at the start of the war. They pour more 982 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: than five hundred million dollars in gold into the Soviet 983 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,840 Speaker 1: Union by the end of the war. Um and because 984 00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,279 Speaker 1: a lot yeah, and also they have to they have 985 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: to burn a bunch of money on like shady arms 986 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,520 Speaker 1: dealers and like it's a very bad like and a 987 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,879 Speaker 1: lot of the blame also goes to France, who makes 988 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:05,640 Speaker 1: it difficult to get shipped through the border, which is 989 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,760 Speaker 1: why they have to go with arms smugglers as opposed 990 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,360 Speaker 1: to just getting weapons directly imported. Um, it's very messy. 991 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,359 Speaker 1: The fascists also had the benefit of receiving much better guns. Um. 992 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know how much you can blame the 993 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,759 Speaker 1: Soviets for this. The Germans had the best weaponry and 994 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 1: the planet at this point in time. So the quality 995 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: of arms that Franco receives blows everything Soviet out of 996 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,880 Speaker 1: the water. Now, a lot of the blame for the 997 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 1: Republic's loss tends to go to Stalin and the USSR. 998 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,360 Speaker 1: But if we're really being and that, like when you 999 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,200 Speaker 1: read articles trying to like allay blame, a lot of 1000 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 1: people will put blame on Stalin in the USSR, and 1001 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 1: there are very legitimate things to criticize them about. But 1002 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,480 Speaker 1: if we're truly being fair, the foreign nations most responsible 1003 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,959 Speaker 1: for the victory of fascism in Spain where the United States, 1004 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,800 Speaker 1: England and France um because the entire free world basically 1005 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 1: engaged in a policy of non intervention within the Spanish 1006 00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,160 Speaker 1: Civil War. This is part of the appeasement policy that 1007 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,160 Speaker 1: the British were doing with the Germans at the time, 1008 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,520 Speaker 1: and they were trying to get the Germans basically agreed 1009 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 1: to neutrality in the war, and Germany would put some 1010 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,480 Speaker 1: lip services at this, but they didn't like. They sent 1011 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:14,160 Speaker 1: soldiers and planes and arms, and both fascist states intervened directly, 1012 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,279 Speaker 1: which meant that the Republic of Spain was standing on 1013 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:21,439 Speaker 1: their own against the entire fascist international, fascist Spain, fascist Italy, 1014 00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: fascist Germany. And they have some backup from the Soviets, 1015 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,440 Speaker 1: and that's it, right, Everyone else is like, fuck you, 1016 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,759 Speaker 1: the French closed the border. We're not jumping in. Yeah, 1017 00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,400 Speaker 1: the Democrats And this is again part of why this 1018 00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,840 Speaker 1: the communists their criticisms of decisions made by Communist advisors 1019 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,480 Speaker 1: and Communist leaders in the Spanish Republican cause. The reason 1020 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,840 Speaker 1: the Communists wind up in power largely in the Spanish 1021 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,840 Speaker 1: Republican side is because the democracies are like, oh, we 1022 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,080 Speaker 1: don't want any part in this ship. Right, could have 1023 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,120 Speaker 1: been different if you know, damn right. Yeah, so I 1024 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 1: can't blame the USSR here, you know, Yeah, that's good dude, 1025 00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,360 Speaker 1: because it's like, yeah, you get you see a homeboy 1026 00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,880 Speaker 1: getting like lept, you know what I'm saying, Like somebody 1027 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,000 Speaker 1: just brought the night will just knocking the held me out, 1028 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,919 Speaker 1: and then everybody jumping into help. And you're like, well, 1029 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,880 Speaker 1: I thought we all agreed we weren't going to jump in, 1030 00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,319 Speaker 1: But like you, if your friends throwing a haymaker, it's 1031 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,359 Speaker 1: not really his fault. He fucking tried. You're the one 1032 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,719 Speaker 1: none of y'all was jumping in. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um. So, 1033 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 1: the like the failure of the democratic world, so to speak, 1034 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,400 Speaker 1: to get involved in any kind of organized way is 1035 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,920 Speaker 1: one of the great tragedies and maybe one of the 1036 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,800 Speaker 1: reasons World War two happens, right, maybe one of the 1037 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,600 Speaker 1: reasons why no, no, no, this is a this is 1038 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:41,200 Speaker 1: FDR FDR Yeah, because I watched the speech about this 1039 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,919 Speaker 1: time of him explaining why he was like, we don't 1040 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,520 Speaker 1: want no parts of this. I remember, I remember exactly, 1041 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,239 Speaker 1: but I remember being really interested in the fact that like, yeah, 1042 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,600 Speaker 1: like you know, awesome, Like look, we like some isolation 1043 00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:58,359 Speaker 1: and stuff on someone. Look, man, we've got our own 1044 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,680 Speaker 1: problems here. Man, we look, we just we can't even 1045 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,359 Speaker 1: feed ourselves. Like I'm not gonna like sind people. Maybe 1046 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,239 Speaker 1: we should stay out of this one. Yeah, that's that. 1047 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:11,440 Speaker 1: That is very much the attitude and the the fascists 1048 00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,120 Speaker 1: use Spain, particularly Germany. You Spain as a testing ground 1049 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,960 Speaker 1: for new weapons and tactics, particularly their new air force, 1050 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,680 Speaker 1: because the air and the concept of an air force 1051 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,120 Speaker 1: is very new. There have been air forces in World 1052 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 1: War One, but they mostly just shot at each other 1053 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,879 Speaker 1: and like spotted right for artillery and ship. Now you've 1054 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,200 Speaker 1: got bombers right now, Now you have air tactical air 1055 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,520 Speaker 1: support that can destroy armor and stuff. And the Spanish 1056 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,840 Speaker 1: Civil Wars the first time this really comes together in 1057 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,160 Speaker 1: an organized way, and it provides the LEFTWAFFA, the Nazi 1058 00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,600 Speaker 1: Air Force with a way to test out its tactics 1059 00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,000 Speaker 1: and bombs on Spanish cities and civilians in many cases. 1060 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that a little bit later in 1061 00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:52,520 Speaker 1: the episode two. But first, you know who won't attack 1062 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: Spanish cities and civilians with Stuka dive bombers want so Sofie, 1063 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,680 Speaker 1: we might, though she started messing with her products and Cyrus. 1064 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,920 Speaker 1: I have been worried about Sophie's cash off Stuka dive bombers. 1065 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,680 Speaker 1: I am consuner. I'm saying, why you have so many 1066 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,440 Speaker 1: cut to check where my contract? That's Sophie, So she 1067 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,919 Speaker 1: might If they don't, she might. They don't say money, 1068 00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,480 Speaker 1: she might bomb Spain. You know, I've always said that 1069 00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,640 Speaker 1: about Sophie. Spain's lucky they gave us pogosol or else 1070 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,240 Speaker 1: things might be different beyond our way. Al Right, here's 1071 00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,880 Speaker 1: some products. Hello, and welcome to our show. I'm Zoe 1072 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,120 Speaker 1: de Chanelle and I'm so excited to be joined by 1073 00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,760 Speaker 1: my friends and cast mates Hannah, Simone and Lamar and 1074 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,640 Speaker 1: Morris to recap our hit television series New Girl. Join 1075 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,280 Speaker 1: us every Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast, 1076 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,880 Speaker 1: where we'll share behind the scenes stories of your favorite 1077 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 1: New Girl episodes, revealed the truth behind the legendary game 1078 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,240 Speaker 1: True American, and discuss how this show got made with 1079 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,960 Speaker 1: the writer's, guest stars, and directors who made the show 1080 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,440 Speaker 1: so special. Fans have been begging us to do a 1081 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,240 Speaker 1: New Girl recap for years, and we finally meet a 1082 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,960 Speaker 1: podcast where we answer all your burning questions like is 1083 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,880 Speaker 1: there really a bear? In every episode of New Girl. 1084 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,200 Speaker 1: Plus each week you'll hear hilarious stories like this at 1085 00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,080 Speaker 1: the end when he says, you got some schmid on 1086 00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,960 Speaker 1: your face. I feel like I pitched that joke. I 1087 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: believe that. I feel like I did. I'm not on 1088 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:19,720 Speaker 1: a thousand percent. I want to say that was I 1089 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,439 Speaker 1: tossed that without Listen to the Welcome to Our Show 1090 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,800 Speaker 1: podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or 1091 00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:30,000 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Robert Lamd and 1092 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick, and we're the hosts of the science 1093 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,360 Speaker 1: podcast Stuff to Blow Your Mind, where every week we 1094 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,320 Speaker 1: get to explore some of the weirdest questions in the universe, 1095 00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,840 Speaker 1: like if sci fi teleportation was possible, how would it 1096 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,680 Speaker 1: square with the multitudes of organisms that inhabit our human bodies. 1097 00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,760 Speaker 1: Can we find evidence of emotions in animals like bees, ants, 1098 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:54,640 Speaker 1: and crayfish? How would it interplanetary civilization function just free 1099 00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,640 Speaker 1: will exist. Stuff to Blow Your Mind examines neurological quandaries, 1100 00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:03,960 Speaker 1: cosmic mysteries, evolutionary marvels, and the wonders of techno history. Basically, 1101 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,920 Speaker 1: this show is the altar where we worship the weirdness 1102 00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,840 Speaker 1: of reality. If anybody ever told you you ask the 1103 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,080 Speaker 1: weirdest questions, it is time to come join us in 1104 00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,760 Speaker 1: the place where you belong. The Stuff to Blow Your 1105 00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,680 Speaker 1: Mind podcast New episodes publish every Tuesday and Thursday, with 1106 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,760 Speaker 1: bonus episodes on Saturdays. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your 1107 00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: Mind on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 1108 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:30,360 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Conquer your New Year's resolution 1109 00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,800 Speaker 1: to be more productive with the Before Breakfast podcast. In 1110 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:38,200 Speaker 1: each bite sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert 1111 00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: Laura Vanderkam teaches you how to make the most of 1112 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,960 Speaker 1: your time both at work and at home. These are 1113 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,120 Speaker 1: the practical suggestions you need to get more done with 1114 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,120 Speaker 1: your day, just as lifting weights keeps our body strong 1115 00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,440 Speaker 1: as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent 1116 00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:57,160 Speaker 1: of pumping iron. Listen to before Breakfast wherever you get 1117 00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:04,120 Speaker 1: your podcasts. All right, so we're back now. While the 1118 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Republic lacked official international support, uh so again, the the 1119 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,640 Speaker 1: governments of the democratic world like, uh, fun, you guys, 1120 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:15,320 Speaker 1: like you're on your own, right. I don't know, but 1121 01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,400 Speaker 1: an awful lot of their citizens, and citizens from like 1122 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:20,920 Speaker 1: Poland is a huge number of these guys, an awful 1123 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,360 Speaker 1: lot of people from around the world. Individual people correctly 1124 01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:26,840 Speaker 1: see that, like, well, I don't live in Spain, but 1125 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,840 Speaker 1: I don't like fascism, and I think that whatever happens 1126 01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,280 Speaker 1: in Spain will probably directly impact my future. So I'm 1127 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,680 Speaker 1: going to go travel to Spain and try to get 1128 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,760 Speaker 1: ahold of a rifle and shoot some fucking fascists. Um, 1129 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people do this movie. There's a couple 1130 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,120 Speaker 1: and there's being worked on right now that I hope 1131 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,880 Speaker 1: will wind up being good. Yeah, there's this scene where 1132 01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,000 Speaker 1: big holl Me like uh, gives this big speech about 1133 01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,480 Speaker 1: why he's still willing to like from America go volunteer 1134 01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,680 Speaker 1: in this war. I forget the name of this movie. 1135 01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 1: But it was like a resting seen about this time 1136 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,400 Speaker 1: that like, Okay, the government saying we're not going to 1137 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,320 Speaker 1: do it, but that don't stop me. I could fly 1138 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,480 Speaker 1: out there, I hope. Yeah. You know, there's a lot 1139 01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,800 Speaker 1: of these are the people who recognize what is a 1140 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,760 Speaker 1: timeless truth, which is that, um, fascism and authoritarianism in 1141 01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,800 Speaker 1: in one part of the world is a threat to 1142 01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,160 Speaker 1: freedom everywhere in the world. And that's the way it's 1143 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,320 Speaker 1: always been. And we can talk a lot about the 1144 01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:26,640 Speaker 1: fallout from what happened in Syria. Um, but you know 1145 01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of stories of 1146 01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:34,120 Speaker 1: that in history, you know. Um So while the Republic lacked, Yeah, 1147 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,360 Speaker 1: so a funklet of people, eventually something close to forty 1148 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,560 Speaker 1: people will wind up volunteering to fight in Spain. And 1149 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,240 Speaker 1: two of the first foreigners to volunteer to fight in 1150 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:45,960 Speaker 1: Spain where a twenty one year old classics graduate from 1151 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,720 Speaker 1: Cambridge named Bernard Knox and his friend John Cornford. They 1152 01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,760 Speaker 1: took with them an old pistol that had belonged to 1153 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,360 Speaker 1: John cornfora it's a weird name. Um. They took with 1154 01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:59,080 Speaker 1: them an old yes Cornford Sophie. They took with him. 1155 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,320 Speaker 1: He dies fighting ashes. He's a good guy, but alright, 1156 01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:09,880 Speaker 1: they took with them an old pistol okay, Sophie. So 1157 01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,640 Speaker 1: they traveled to Spain together with just like nothing but 1158 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:14,840 Speaker 1: an old handgun that had belonged to John's dad in 1159 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,720 Speaker 1: the First World War. Knox had to carry a gun. 1160 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:19,919 Speaker 1: The gun because his friend had already been to Spain 1161 01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,760 Speaker 1: once before. And the British policy of non intervention mean 1162 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,640 Speaker 1: they did everything, meant that Britain like was trying to 1163 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,440 Speaker 1: actively stop people from going to Spain to fight fascism. Um. 1164 01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,360 Speaker 1: But but Cornford and his buddy join a militia, like 1165 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,320 Speaker 1: get to Spain, they joined a militia as soon as 1166 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,960 Speaker 1: they land. Um, which is like at this point one 1167 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:38,800 Speaker 1: of the many groups that had taken up arms to 1168 01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,760 Speaker 1: fight against the military coup. Um. And as I had 1169 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,560 Speaker 1: said the early days of this war, there's a lot 1170 01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,080 Speaker 1: of women who are fighting in the militia's. This ends 1171 01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:48,320 Speaker 1: at like the end of nineteen thirty six when Largo 1172 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,960 Speaker 1: Caballero comes to power because he kind of he argues 1173 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,160 Speaker 1: that women are needed behind the lines, so they're not 1174 01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,440 Speaker 1: really fighting in the front. After this point, it's a 1175 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,680 Speaker 1: pretty brief period. And that's again a criticism. One of 1176 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,920 Speaker 1: the criticisms of the Spanish Republican government is like, well, 1177 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:07,240 Speaker 1: I lost out on a lot of soldiers. Huh yeah, 1178 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,600 Speaker 1: so yeah, people will in a suit. You told him 1179 01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:13,480 Speaker 1: stay home. In those early days of revolutionary ardor though, 1180 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,720 Speaker 1: when Cornford and his friend arrive in Spain, uh, like, 1181 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 1: Spain is kind of like overtaken by this this feeling 1182 01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,960 Speaker 1: of revolution um and and this is swelled by the 1183 01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,640 Speaker 1: fact that the people of Republican Spain had literally taken 1184 01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,040 Speaker 1: to the streets to defend themselves in mass and it 1185 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:33,280 Speaker 1: lent cities like Barcelona a revolutionary air that international volunteers noticed. 1186 01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,480 Speaker 1: One of those volunteers was a young George Orwell, and 1187 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,520 Speaker 1: he described the atmosphere in Barcelona as startling and overwhelming 1188 01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,040 Speaker 1: and like a positive sense, just like so incredible, this 1189 01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:47,680 Speaker 1: like outpouring of of of liberty. Now, the Communist International 1190 01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,480 Speaker 1: or common tern quickly realized that volunteers like Cornford represented 1191 01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,600 Speaker 1: a massive opportunity, so they devoted some of their resources 1192 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,280 Speaker 1: to organize in what came to be known as the 1193 01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,640 Speaker 1: International Brigades. So it's it's the Communist who put together 1194 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,320 Speaker 1: the National Brigades, which are a huge factor in in 1195 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:07,520 Speaker 1: both why the Republic last so long and why um 1196 01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:09,920 Speaker 1: it becomes so internationally famous. Although a lot of these 1197 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,720 Speaker 1: volunteers are anarchists and not communists, you know, it's a 1198 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:14,680 Speaker 1: bunch of different kinds and Trotsky like a bunch of 1199 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:18,200 Speaker 1: different kinds of people volunteer. And I'm gonna quote from 1200 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,400 Speaker 1: a rite up on the International Brigades and the Guardian. 1201 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:26,000 Speaker 1: Another recruit, Winston Churchill's rebel nephew, Esmond Romilly, had cycled 1202 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,360 Speaker 1: across France fueled by coffee and kognac before volunteering and 1203 01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,400 Speaker 1: declaring himself a member of that very large class of 1204 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,920 Speaker 1: unskilled laborers with a public school accent. He sailed on 1205 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,240 Speaker 1: a boat from Marseilles with watch duties split in two 1206 01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,480 Speaker 1: hour shifts between French, German Poles, Italians, Yugoslav's, Belgians, Flemish 1207 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:49,080 Speaker 1: and Russian speakers. And it's yeah, it's very kind of dope. Yeah, 1208 01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,040 Speaker 1: it's it's we're gonna talk mostly is very depe. Yeah, 1209 01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,800 Speaker 1: Winster Churchill's nephew is showing up. Yeah, it was like 1210 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,840 Speaker 1: coffee and come out here with the homies, like on 1211 01:04:57,920 --> 01:04:59,919 Speaker 1: the streets right now. I look, I want to quote 1212 01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:03,120 Speaker 1: with school. How you get this accent? I love it. 1213 01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, okay, and it's um and and it's 1214 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:08,960 Speaker 1: it's there's a couple of things going on there. Um. 1215 01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:10,920 Speaker 1: One of them is that like by public school that 1216 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,080 Speaker 1: in England actually means like a fancy school. So he's like, 1217 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,160 Speaker 1: I I have I have a public school accent. But 1218 01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,960 Speaker 1: I too am like whatever you call what I call 1219 01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,320 Speaker 1: it an unskilled laborer, like I identified Okay, that's that's 1220 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,720 Speaker 1: actually it is because I don't have to do this, okay. 1221 01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,040 Speaker 1: It's the opposite of like, you know, that common people 1222 01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:30,960 Speaker 1: thing where it's like I want to be, you know, 1223 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,160 Speaker 1: like a labor is like, well, I want to be 1224 01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,960 Speaker 1: like a laborer. So I'm gonna go stand with a 1225 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,760 Speaker 1: rifle next to them and fight the fascist, which yeah, 1226 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,360 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna talk to you about 1227 01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,760 Speaker 1: you for doing that. Um And. It's also worth noting 1228 01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk mostly about American volunteers UM here. One 1229 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,720 Speaker 1: of the largest nations that that a lot of people 1230 01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,680 Speaker 1: volunteer to fight in Spain from is Poland. UM And 1231 01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:56,640 Speaker 1: obviously Poland becomes the first one of the first large 1232 01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,120 Speaker 1: national victim at least of nazism um. So you and 1233 01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,000 Speaker 1: you can see why, right, like a lot of Poles 1234 01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,200 Speaker 1: looking at Germany on their doorstep, agitating about taking back 1235 01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,880 Speaker 1: land given to them by versaillae, or like we should 1236 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:12,280 Speaker 1: probably go try to stop this, yea. So the invasion 1237 01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,880 Speaker 1: of Madrid was the first terrible battle of the Civil 1238 01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,480 Speaker 1: War the verse like really massive and important one, I think. 1239 01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,240 Speaker 1: And Franco's colonial army, including the Spanish foreign Legion, were 1240 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,440 Speaker 1: airlifted from Morocco to Seville by German planes in order 1241 01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,400 Speaker 1: to fight there in an operation that Hitler himself named 1242 01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,680 Speaker 1: Operation Magic Fire, which is based on a part of 1243 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,400 Speaker 1: a Wagner opera, Franco's Fast. So they and again the 1244 01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,160 Speaker 1: bulk of the nationalist troops don't get out of Africa 1245 01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,480 Speaker 1: to fight in Spain without Hitler's airlift. They did they 1246 01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:43,880 Speaker 1: had they would have had because the navy doesn't go fascist. 1247 01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,000 Speaker 1: The Spanish navy, such as it is, stays loyal um 1248 01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:48,840 Speaker 1: in large part because like there's actually a lot of 1249 01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:52,840 Speaker 1: Spanish naval officers who try to go against the Republic 1250 01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:56,040 Speaker 1: and then their crews killed them and stuff, you know. Um, 1251 01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,840 Speaker 1: So the only reason that Franco's army gets to Iberi 1252 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,800 Speaker 1: is because the Nazis airlift them. Um. Now, Franco's fascist 1253 01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,520 Speaker 1: towards tour through Republic territory on their way to Madrid. 1254 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:11,600 Speaker 1: They were slowed by the militias um and eventually turned 1255 01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,040 Speaker 1: back by a significant amount of Soviet armored aid um. 1256 01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,160 Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of people sacrificed to stop them. 1257 01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,680 Speaker 1: But a lot of the credit for finally stopping the 1258 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,640 Speaker 1: fascist advanced on Madrid goes to the International Brigades who 1259 01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,840 Speaker 1: turned back the fascists at a place called University City, 1260 01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,360 Speaker 1: which is like a college campus, in a heroic defense 1261 01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,920 Speaker 1: that has become like very like famous in history. Now, 1262 01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,000 Speaker 1: most of the International Brigade members at this point were untrained, inexperienced, 1263 01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,880 Speaker 1: and nearly all of them were poorly armed. They found 1264 01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:45,720 Speaker 1: themselves confronting a battle hardened army with cutting edge German weaponry, 1265 01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:49,720 Speaker 1: and somehow they held the line. Cornford Squad operated a 1266 01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:53,160 Speaker 1: machine gun nest in the philosophy faculty offices of the 1267 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,680 Speaker 1: University City campus. They built barricades out of books in 1268 01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:01,440 Speaker 1: order to stop fascist bullets. The Guardian notes okay. Quote 1269 01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:05,760 Speaker 1: enemy bullets gave up before reaching page three fifty, making 1270 01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,520 Speaker 1: them believe old tales of soldiers saved by bibles in 1271 01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 1: their breast pockets. I think I killed a fascist, Cornford, 1272 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:15,800 Speaker 1: a former pacifist, wrote excitedly to his girlfriend Margot Hyneman 1273 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,800 Speaker 1: on eighth December fifteen or sixteen of them were running 1274 01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,320 Speaker 1: from a bombardment. If it is true, it's a fluke, 1275 01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:28,840 Speaker 1: that's yeah, yeah yeah, building this entire like building barricades 1276 01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,880 Speaker 1: out of philosophy books to stop fascist bullets. Yeah, it's 1277 01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:36,000 Speaker 1: it's yes, that is punk rock. He was like to 1278 01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:43,800 Speaker 1: that about page three as they can get yeah. Uh. Now. 1279 01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,519 Speaker 1: The achievement of the International Brigades at University City turned 1280 01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:50,120 Speaker 1: them into a symbol, both in Spain and worldwide of 1281 01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:54,639 Speaker 1: resistance to fascism. They also received more international attention because 1282 01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,120 Speaker 1: their numbers included men who spoke dozens of different languages. 1283 01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,200 Speaker 1: They were like fifty four nations represented eventually, and this 1284 01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,519 Speaker 1: made it really easy for the foreign press to to 1285 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:04,680 Speaker 1: embed with people because they could find people that they 1286 01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:06,720 Speaker 1: could talk to, you know, like it like it's just 1287 01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,679 Speaker 1: speaking of somebody who's done war zone reporting. If there's 1288 01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:10,320 Speaker 1: a group of people like that that I can embed with. 1289 01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:12,320 Speaker 1: That's what I'm gonna do because I'll meet other people 1290 01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,719 Speaker 1: who are English speakers and it's way easier to conduct 1291 01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:19,320 Speaker 1: interviews and stuff that. Um. And, of course, the United 1292 01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:23,400 Speaker 1: States was well represented among the international volunteers. Now, it 1293 01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,080 Speaker 1: was very illegal for U. S citizens to join a 1294 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,200 Speaker 1: foreign military force at this time, but still hundreds and 1295 01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:31,840 Speaker 1: hundreds joined what came to be known as the Abraham 1296 01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:36,400 Speaker 1: Lincoln Battalion. These soldiers underwent two weeks of clandestine training 1297 01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,439 Speaker 1: near New York City before shipping out. New York, by 1298 01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,680 Speaker 1: the way, was the source of a huge number of 1299 01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,559 Speaker 1: Lincoln Battalion troops. It is worth noting that about one 1300 01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,000 Speaker 1: tenth of foreign Spanish volunteers were Jewish, so of all 1301 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:49,880 Speaker 1: of the people who could like and again, it's the 1302 01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:51,920 Speaker 1: same thing as the polls. A lot of Jewish folks 1303 01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:54,200 Speaker 1: are like, looking at Nazi German are like, should probably 1304 01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,360 Speaker 1: go do something about this problem. There's gonna be a 1305 01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:00,839 Speaker 1: problem for us, I think, um. And in fact, American 1306 01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:05,080 Speaker 1: historian and international veteran Albert Prago called the International Brigades 1307 01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,400 Speaker 1: quote the vehicle through which Jews could offer the first 1308 01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:13,720 Speaker 1: armed resistance to European fascism, and that's pretty rad Now. 1309 01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,679 Speaker 1: One of the most notable aspects of the Abraham Lincoln 1310 01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,040 Speaker 1: Battalion is that, in an era in which racism was 1311 01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:23,040 Speaker 1: almost unbelievably present in American society, and there in which 1312 01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:27,120 Speaker 1: even the military was heavily segregated, the Abraham Lincoln Battalion 1313 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:31,160 Speaker 1: was completely unsegregated. Black men could not only join, they 1314 01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,160 Speaker 1: could become officers and command white troops in battle, and 1315 01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,720 Speaker 1: this had never happened in Uss. This point that I 1316 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,960 Speaker 1: am aware of. This brings me to the incredible story 1317 01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,439 Speaker 1: of l Lord Luteal McDaniels, and I'm going to quote 1318 01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,479 Speaker 1: from a writ up in the Smithsonian Magazine here. L 1319 01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,920 Speaker 1: Lord Lute McDaniels traveled across the Atlantic in nineteen thirty 1320 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,479 Speaker 1: seven to fight fascists in the Spanish Civil War, where 1321 01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:55,560 Speaker 1: he became known as El Fantastico for his prowess with 1322 01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,639 Speaker 1: a grenade. As a platoon sergeant with the McKenzie Papinau 1323 01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:01,519 Speaker 1: Battalion of the International Gads, the twenty five year old 1324 01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:04,920 Speaker 1: African American from Mississippi commanded white troops and led them 1325 01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,000 Speaker 1: into battle against the forces of General Franco, men who 1326 01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,960 Speaker 1: saw him as less than human. It might seem strange 1327 01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:12,680 Speaker 1: for a black man to go to such links to 1328 01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:14,920 Speaker 1: fight in a white man's war so far from home. 1329 01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,679 Speaker 1: Wasn't there enough racism to fight in the United States? 1330 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,040 Speaker 1: But McDaniels was convinced that anti fascism and anti racism 1331 01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,600 Speaker 1: were one and the same. I saw the invaders of 1332 01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,800 Speaker 1: Spain were the same people I've been fighting all my life, 1333 01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,800 Speaker 1: McDaniels says. I've seen lynching and starvation, and I know 1334 01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:35,439 Speaker 1: my people's enemies. Let's go first of all, Man's last 1335 01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,439 Speaker 1: name is McDaniels, which already tells you someone Yep, you 1336 01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:42,000 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, So we know his family story. 1337 01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:45,560 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And yeah, that just and 1338 01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,360 Speaker 1: the Fanessa just just the culture that you get there 1339 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,280 Speaker 1: and get a nickname immediately, you know what I'm saying, 1340 01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,519 Speaker 1: Like l fantastical because she's really good at killing fascist. 1341 01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:58,280 Speaker 1: I'm good at this ship. Dann. I was crazy. I 1342 01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,080 Speaker 1: was gonna say that that. Yeah, that like a stut, 1343 01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:07,840 Speaker 1: like you know, like the observation of just like where 1344 01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:09,880 Speaker 1: we're just like, look, man, you gotta trust us. Like 1345 01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,479 Speaker 1: I'm trying to tell you this is the same same ease, 1346 01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,360 Speaker 1: like this is the same people to the people. I'm 1347 01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:19,640 Speaker 1: trying to tell you the same problem. Yeah. Now. The 1348 01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,320 Speaker 1: United States in this period also banned black men from 1349 01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,800 Speaker 1: serving as fighter pilots, but three black pilots, James Peck, 1350 01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:30,120 Speaker 1: Patrick Roosevelt, and Paul Williams, served in Spain. Canute Wilson, 1351 01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,880 Speaker 1: a black American volunteer, was the head mechanic for the 1352 01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,479 Speaker 1: International Garage, which maintained all of the Brigades fighting vehicles. 1353 01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,760 Speaker 1: He wrote this of his reasons for volunteering to fight 1354 01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,920 Speaker 1: in Spain, and a letter home to his family. We 1355 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,719 Speaker 1: are no longer an isolated minority group fighting hopelessly against 1356 01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,600 Speaker 1: an immense giant, because, my dear, we have joined with 1357 01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,200 Speaker 1: and become an active part of a great progressive force 1358 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,600 Speaker 1: on whose soldiers rests the responsibility of saving human civilization 1359 01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,760 Speaker 1: from the planned destruction of a small group of degenerates 1360 01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,840 Speaker 1: gotten mad in their lust for power. Because if we 1361 01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,880 Speaker 1: crush fascism here, we'll save our people in America and 1362 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,280 Speaker 1: in other parts of the world from the vicious persecution, 1363 01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,120 Speaker 1: wholesale imprisonment, and slaughter which the Jewish people suffered and 1364 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:18,480 Speaker 1: our suffering under Hitler's fascist heels, that is, that is sentenced. 1365 01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:23,280 Speaker 1: That is I think it's like this, like this, this 1366 01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:26,080 Speaker 1: part of this like longing and I'm gonna speak in 1367 01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,200 Speaker 1: like generalities, but just this longing in that like that 1368 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,759 Speaker 1: African American like the black community, I think that's gone. 1369 01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,040 Speaker 1: That goes very far back to say, surely not all 1370 01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,719 Speaker 1: white people are like this. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, 1371 01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,600 Speaker 1: Like you have you're like this, It can't be. It 1372 01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,880 Speaker 1: can't be all of y'all, you know what I'm saying. 1373 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,519 Speaker 1: So like when you when you find it like I mean, 1374 01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:53,280 Speaker 1: obviously I'm marketing back to history, but when you like 1375 01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,080 Speaker 1: like when you see when you see, uh, during like 1376 01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:58,760 Speaker 1: the Harlem Renaissance, you see black people going to going 1377 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:03,000 Speaker 1: to France and being like, look, there's reasonable white people. 1378 01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:07,080 Speaker 1: Like I'm telling you there they have to exist, you know, 1379 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,920 Speaker 1: there has it has to exist, you know what I'm saying. 1380 01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:14,280 Speaker 1: So like it's it's almost like I hear that in 1381 01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:21,240 Speaker 1: this guy's statement, like dude, I found them reasonable white people. Yeah. Well, 1382 01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,200 Speaker 1: and in speaking about you know the fact that L 1383 01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:25,920 Speaker 1: word's last name is McDaniels, right, that probably means that 1384 01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:29,720 Speaker 1: like an Irish person owned his ancestors, not all that 1385 01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,960 Speaker 1: far back. We're talking about like like like like not 1386 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:38,759 Speaker 1: all that long ago, like his grandpa. Yeah. Now, because 1387 01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:41,200 Speaker 1: of the realities of the war, babe, when it were 1388 01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:45,000 Speaker 1: there were a funkload of Irish volunteers and Irish American volunteers, 1389 01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:48,599 Speaker 1: which means it's conceivable, like part of what probably happened 1390 01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,280 Speaker 1: here is he was leading irishman Irish descendedment into battles 1391 01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,479 Speaker 1: man who had been enslaved by an Irish descendent, leading 1392 01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:59,920 Speaker 1: them into into combat, which is amazing. Ship happens, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1393 01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:04,679 Speaker 1: Uh Now during its brief and and yeah, it's it's amazing. 1394 01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,679 Speaker 1: In some ways, during its brief period of existence, wartime 1395 01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:12,800 Speaker 1: Republican Spain was in some ways almost impossibly progressive. In 1396 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:16,920 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, Largo Caballero appointed Federica mont Senni, a 1397 01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,880 Speaker 1: female anarchist, to be the nation's Minister of Health. Federica 1398 01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,520 Speaker 1: immediately set to work focusing the embattled nation's health infrastructure 1399 01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:27,160 Speaker 1: to serve the needs of the poor and the working class. 1400 01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:31,280 Speaker 1: She believed that health care should be decentralized, locally organized 1401 01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,679 Speaker 1: and based around prevention rather than treatment. She was also 1402 01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:37,920 Speaker 1: responsible for making Republican Spain the first nation on Earth 1403 01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:43,320 Speaker 1: to legalize on demand abortion. Wow yeah, now yeah, there's 1404 01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:47,599 Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting ship. Yeah now months City 1405 01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,880 Speaker 1: was a controversial figure among anarchists, and she engaged in 1406 01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:53,400 Speaker 1: some pretty officious arguments with Emma Goldman, who is another 1407 01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,519 Speaker 1: very famous anarchist. In particular, and the general focus of 1408 01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,200 Speaker 1: criticism on Montseny and other anarchists who take part in 1409 01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:02,479 Speaker 1: the Republican government, um is on the subject of whether 1410 01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:05,000 Speaker 1: or not it was ethical for anarchists to coordinate with 1411 01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,160 Speaker 1: governments and with Marxists, because obviously in the Soviet Union 1412 01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,280 Speaker 1: they kill a funkload of anarchists too, you know. Um, 1413 01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:14,599 Speaker 1: this is a recurring theme in anarchist history and it's 1414 01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:16,800 Speaker 1: something that's very hotly debated to this day. I could 1415 01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:18,880 Speaker 1: note here that Nestor mak know who we talked about 1416 01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,599 Speaker 1: in our Christmas episode, also had to thread this moral 1417 01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:25,320 Speaker 1: needle because he collaborated with the post revolutionary government of Russia, 1418 01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,839 Speaker 1: which he didn't like, to fight against the white forces 1419 01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,719 Speaker 1: which were worse. You know, it's a it's a debate 1420 01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,120 Speaker 1: that anarchists have had a number of times in history, 1421 01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,160 Speaker 1: and is never really settled to a satisfactory degree. But 1422 01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,760 Speaker 1: it happens now. A decent number of the anarchists who 1423 01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,479 Speaker 1: fought for Republican Spain would in fact come to regret 1424 01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:45,200 Speaker 1: their collaboration with the government and the communists, and they 1425 01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:47,599 Speaker 1: had some good reasons to do that. For one thing, 1426 01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,760 Speaker 1: Republican Spain has lost the war. For another thing, the 1427 01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,920 Speaker 1: broad left unity that characterized some of the early stages 1428 01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:57,800 Speaker 1: of the war did not last. The government of Republican Spain, 1429 01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,680 Speaker 1: which did at one point include four anarchists ministers, as 1430 01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:02,479 Speaker 1: well as a number of communists and of course many 1431 01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,840 Speaker 1: more moderate Republicans, made a lot of tremendous errors. For 1432 01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:09,160 Speaker 1: one thing, the government fled Madrid while Franco was advancing, 1433 01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,920 Speaker 1: something which hampered their ability to capitalize on the moral 1434 01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,479 Speaker 1: victory of halting the fascists. Right, you can't brag about 1435 01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:17,479 Speaker 1: it as much because you ran away. You know you 1436 01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:21,280 Speaker 1: ran though. Yeah. For another reason, starting in late nineteen 1437 01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:23,920 Speaker 1: thirty six, the Republic's new government embarked on what they 1438 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:28,120 Speaker 1: called militarization. This involved involved integrating the hundreds of different 1439 01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,560 Speaker 1: militias into the formal Spanish military. On the surface, this 1440 01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:33,200 Speaker 1: was a sensible call and it may have been the 1441 01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:34,960 Speaker 1: right one, and it was one that was heavily backed 1442 01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:38,320 Speaker 1: by communist advisors the USSR had sent in. Many historians 1443 01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:41,720 Speaker 1: will argue that it was necessary um and and some 1444 01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:43,519 Speaker 1: of the evidence for this is that, like in February 1445 01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:46,120 Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty seven, Malaga fell due in part to 1446 01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:48,360 Speaker 1: the fact that it was defended by a patchwork of 1447 01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:52,559 Speaker 1: militias that were not well coordinated. UM. But these militias 1448 01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:56,160 Speaker 1: that are being inducted into the formal military establishment, a 1449 01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,519 Speaker 1: lot of them had been again anarchist and Trotskyist, and 1450 01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,200 Speaker 1: they'd been free democratic fighting units. This led to problems 1451 01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:04,560 Speaker 1: and there were cases where you know, like whole battalions 1452 01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:07,519 Speaker 1: would vote to leave combat zones while the fighting was happening. 1453 01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:10,040 Speaker 1: This happened in the Battle of Madrid with when a 1454 01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,240 Speaker 1: guy named Drudy gets killed with like his guys leave. Um. 1455 01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,800 Speaker 1: But it also meant so it's not like obviously before militarization, 1456 01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,479 Speaker 1: they decided to militarize because there's a lot of problems 1457 01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,080 Speaker 1: with the fact that all these militias are so decentralized. 1458 01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:26,080 Speaker 1: These militias are also very motivated and very resistant to 1459 01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:28,800 Speaker 1: the idea of losing their democratic rights and bring brought 1460 01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,240 Speaker 1: under military discipline. UM. So, while a lot of militias 1461 01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,280 Speaker 1: were integrated to the Republican military, a significant number of 1462 01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,400 Speaker 1: fighters refused to join UM And whether or not this 1463 01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:42,040 Speaker 1: was a good idea is still hotly debated. And George, 1464 01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people will argue that because there's kind 1465 01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:46,800 Speaker 1: of a broad consensus, I would say among a lot 1466 01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,080 Speaker 1: of historians, I read that after the initial period where 1467 01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,559 Speaker 1: they were necessary, the militia's kind of hindered things more 1468 01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,519 Speaker 1: than they helped because of how disorganized they were. George 1469 01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:59,320 Speaker 1: Orwell himself argued against that um and argued in his 1470 01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:01,759 Speaker 1: pay at least, and he was, you know, his opinion 1471 01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,840 Speaker 1: was as a ground level soldier that the shortcomings of 1472 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:06,880 Speaker 1: the militias system had less to do with the fact 1473 01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,640 Speaker 1: that they were democratic and be centralized, and more to 1474 01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:11,760 Speaker 1: do with the fact that they were inexperienced. And I'm 1475 01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:14,960 Speaker 1: gonna quote Orwell here it's a good argument. Later it 1476 01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,560 Speaker 1: became the fashion to decry the militias and therefore to 1477 01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:19,519 Speaker 1: pretend that the faults, which were due to lack of 1478 01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,839 Speaker 1: training and weapons, were the result of the equalitarian system. Actually, 1479 01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:26,639 Speaker 1: a newly raised draft of militia was an undisciplined mob, 1480 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,599 Speaker 1: not because the officers called the private comrade, but because 1481 01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:32,879 Speaker 1: raw troops are always an undisciplined mob. And a worker's 1482 01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,320 Speaker 1: army discipline is theoretically based on class loyalty, while the 1483 01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:40,040 Speaker 1: discipline of a bourgeoisie conscript army is based ultimately on fear. 1484 01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,120 Speaker 1: The popular army that replaced the militias was midway between 1485 01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,800 Speaker 1: the two types. When a man refused to obey an order, 1486 01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,679 Speaker 1: you did not immediately get him punished. You first appealed 1487 01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:51,519 Speaker 1: to him in the name of comradeship. Cynical people with 1488 01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:54,320 Speaker 1: no experience handling men, will say instantly that this would 1489 01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:56,559 Speaker 1: never work, but as a matter of fact, it does 1490 01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,599 Speaker 1: work in the long run. Revolutionary discipline depends on an 1491 01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,559 Speaker 1: under standing of why orders must be obeyed. It takes 1492 01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,040 Speaker 1: time to diffuse this, but it also takes time to 1493 01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:07,719 Speaker 1: drill a man into an automaton on the barracks square. 1494 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,600 Speaker 1: And it is a tribute to the strength of the 1495 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:12,680 Speaker 1: revolutionary discipline that the militias state in the field at all. 1496 01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:15,720 Speaker 1: And or Well has a good point here. That's a 1497 01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:22,080 Speaker 1: that's a whole there's a whole like worldview, philosophy in 1498 01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:27,959 Speaker 1: those two approaches. I'm about to compare this to parenting, 1499 01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:33,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, because like there's parts of me that go, Man, 1500 01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:37,840 Speaker 1: if I just parented the way I was parented, I 1501 01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:41,040 Speaker 1: see why my parents is quicker. You know what I'm saying. 1502 01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:44,000 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you're just it's like it's less 1503 01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,880 Speaker 1: emotional work to just be like, hey, it's time to 1504 01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:52,920 Speaker 1: do the dishes. Why what why you never say what 1505 01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Dude, you got five seconds to get up 1506 01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:59,400 Speaker 1: and do the dishes, you know what I'm saying. Right, So, 1507 01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:02,120 Speaker 1: and I'm like, y'all, don't care if you scrunch up 1508 01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:03,720 Speaker 1: your face how you want to scrunch up your face. 1509 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,000 Speaker 1: You better hide your emotions. I don't need to see it, 1510 01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,800 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like that you live here, 1511 01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:12,280 Speaker 1: you you washing dishes? I bought you know, I'm using 1512 01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,439 Speaker 1: using water. I'm paying for him. So I'm black dadding 1513 01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:17,920 Speaker 1: on you. But like that's the way we was raised, 1514 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,479 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So Like, but it's just 1515 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,800 Speaker 1: like but I know, the whole time I'm doing this, 1516 01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:25,479 Speaker 1: I'm just like, man, I can't wait to get out 1517 01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:27,400 Speaker 1: of this house. Man always. You know what I'm saying, Like, 1518 01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,200 Speaker 1: I'm just salty. I'm gonna do it, and I'm not 1519 01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:31,920 Speaker 1: gonna say nothing to it. Yes, sir, you know what 1520 01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,439 Speaker 1: I'm saying. But like I don't like you, I don't 1521 01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:38,000 Speaker 1: respect this ship. You know what what I'm saying. I'm 1522 01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:41,639 Speaker 1: not doing this because I understand that the dishes are dirty. 1523 01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm doing this because I don't wanna hear your mouth. 1524 01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:46,080 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You don't want the I 1525 01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:51,120 Speaker 1: don't want the consequences with my child. Now it's like, hey, 1526 01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:57,760 Speaker 1: the we have we have budgeted the amount of money 1527 01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,080 Speaker 1: we have for our water bill, which means that we 1528 01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:03,200 Speaker 1: can run our our dishwasher this many times we need 1529 01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:05,760 Speaker 1: it by We needs to happen by two because when 1530 01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:08,400 Speaker 1: we start cooking dinner, since we in this quarantine, we 1531 01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:10,519 Speaker 1: need to have clean dishes to do this or it's 1532 01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:12,639 Speaker 1: gonna pile up. And now it's gonna be two runs 1533 01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:14,679 Speaker 1: instead of one. So like, you make sure you finish 1534 01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:16,439 Speaker 1: this by two so we can have plates to eat 1535 01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:19,960 Speaker 1: off when it's time for dinner. She goes, all right, 1536 01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:24,680 Speaker 1: and it's like and so now it's like I've included 1537 01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,519 Speaker 1: you into this, so you have a steak into Like 1538 01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,439 Speaker 1: it's not me being a bully, it's just I mean 1539 01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:35,080 Speaker 1: it's functional, like we need we need place to eat 1540 01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:38,600 Speaker 1: off and the dishes are your chore, so just so 1541 01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:40,880 Speaker 1: do it. So just do it, you know what I'm saying. 1542 01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:42,840 Speaker 1: And it and when she tell me she don't feel 1543 01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,120 Speaker 1: like it, like now I'm not appealing to like while 1544 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,160 Speaker 1: i'm your father, you do it because I tell you to, 1545 01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:51,200 Speaker 1: I'm appealing to like, yeah, I don't feel like doing 1546 01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:53,000 Speaker 1: it either, but I also want something to eat off 1547 01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:54,519 Speaker 1: on dinner, you know what I'm saying it. So she's 1548 01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:57,280 Speaker 1: like all right, yeah, you know what I'm saying. So 1549 01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:59,680 Speaker 1: and I think, yeah, you can make an argument that like, 1550 01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,240 Speaker 1: you know, you get the dishes done faster if you're 1551 01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:05,240 Speaker 1: just the If you don't do the dishes, there's fucking consequences. 1552 01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:08,680 Speaker 1: Then if you explain why it's necessary, but it's a 1553 01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:12,320 Speaker 1: long term results are probably better. The long term is 1554 01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:17,360 Speaker 1: probably better. So now it's like now she actually, you know, 1555 01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:20,080 Speaker 1: if some drama going on or her little friends, she's 1556 01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:23,439 Speaker 1: actually willing to talk to me rather like this is 1557 01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:25,920 Speaker 1: I Thinkian ruler that tells me what to do all 1558 01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:27,800 Speaker 1: the time. You know. The Will's argument is that, like 1559 01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,120 Speaker 1: the long term would have been better if they had 1560 01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:33,040 Speaker 1: stuck with a malicious system, maybe with some reforms and 1561 01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:36,599 Speaker 1: stuff now and again, a lot of why a lot 1562 01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:39,400 Speaker 1: of historians will kind of just assume like, yeah, it 1563 01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,280 Speaker 1: was bad, like that the malicious system like needed to 1564 01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:44,080 Speaker 1: be reformed, It needed to be militarized. It was the 1565 01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,400 Speaker 1: only way to do things. It's what the communists felt, 1566 01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:50,080 Speaker 1: It's what most of like the cinterests and stuff felt. 1567 01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:53,720 Speaker 1: And you know, there's very strong arguments to be made 1568 01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,120 Speaker 1: that that's that that's true, just based on military history. 1569 01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,240 Speaker 1: There's also strong arguments to be made that like, well, 1570 01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:02,799 Speaker 1: you guys were just like that's what all of you assumed, 1571 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:04,519 Speaker 1: because all of you are the kind of people who 1572 01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:07,600 Speaker 1: are in favor of some form of centralized state and 1573 01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:10,479 Speaker 1: in favor of us why of a centralized military, and 1574 01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:14,880 Speaker 1: that you're listening to like standard military people's attitudes, which 1575 01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,760 Speaker 1: aren't always right, and maybe this could have worked and 1576 01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:21,040 Speaker 1: other things. Systems like it have worked in other militaries 1577 01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:24,120 Speaker 1: for different periods of time. I get interesting results when 1578 01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:27,600 Speaker 1: I bring up the idea of a democratically of of 1579 01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:32,240 Speaker 1: a military that votes democratically on its officers. Um when 1580 01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:34,280 Speaker 1: I talk, because that's what how these militias worked. And 1581 01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:36,439 Speaker 1: I've talked to some friends of mine who are veterans, 1582 01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,640 Speaker 1: and it's interesting some of some people say, like, I 1583 01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:40,479 Speaker 1: don't see how that could work. I've had a good 1584 01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:42,680 Speaker 1: friend of mine who is a veteran say, oh, you 1585 01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,240 Speaker 1: know what, that makes sense because when you've been in 1586 01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,640 Speaker 1: combat with a group of people, you know who you 1587 01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:52,280 Speaker 1: trust to give orders, like, right, you know who you Yeah? Yeah, 1588 01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,479 Speaker 1: it's like I know you got the ranks. Mom listening 1589 01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,800 Speaker 1: to him, because this boy kept me alive. Yeah, yeah, 1590 01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,200 Speaker 1: So sure, yes, sir, I'm not gonna I'm certainly not 1591 01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:03,920 Speaker 1: going to say I know more about this than a 1592 01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:06,800 Speaker 1: number of historians who will say that militarization was really 1593 01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,880 Speaker 1: the only option they had. I'm just saying there's argument 1594 01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:12,160 Speaker 1: about that, and it's something you should read about. I'm 1595 01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:13,760 Speaker 1: not going to make a harsh stance on it, because, 1596 01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:16,559 Speaker 1: like I thought, an expert on war, or an expert 1597 01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:19,840 Speaker 1: on the Spanish Civil War, there's there's there, there's something 1598 01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:21,519 Speaker 1: that we said. At least they like to make sure 1599 01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:25,400 Speaker 1: that your militia knows what they're doing. Yeah, absolutely, that 1600 01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,519 Speaker 1: needs to happen. At least some level of cohesiveness of 1601 01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:31,840 Speaker 1: communications seems like it has to be necessary. There's some 1602 01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,719 Speaker 1: degree you at least need, like a centralized communication network 1603 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,519 Speaker 1: to make sure people know. But I think anyway, one 1604 01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,800 Speaker 1: of the tragedies of the Spanish Civil War is that 1605 01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot of cool what ifs that because there's 1606 01:25:42,439 --> 01:25:45,519 Speaker 1: this horrible war happening, nobody gets the time to really 1607 01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:47,920 Speaker 1: figure out, Right, maybe this could have worked if they 1608 01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,360 Speaker 1: hadn't been at the edge of extermination. Yeah, we weren't 1609 01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:55,320 Speaker 1: facing a minute. Yeah. Now, the unrest between anarchists and 1610 01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:59,240 Speaker 1: Trotskyists and communists within Republican Spain eventually led to bloodshed 1611 01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:02,719 Speaker 1: in the streets of Barcelona as anarchist and Trotskyist militants 1612 01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:06,200 Speaker 1: fought in the streets against communists and socialists. This right 1613 01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:07,840 Speaker 1: up from the New Left Review, does I think a 1614 01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:11,439 Speaker 1: fair job of explaining how this all got underway. Quote, 1615 01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:14,759 Speaker 1: under the revolutionary ferment, a struggle for power and control 1616 01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:17,360 Speaker 1: of scarce arms was being waged. That was the real 1617 01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:20,719 Speaker 1: meaning of the Barcelona fighting. The Communist Party's increasing influence 1618 01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:22,600 Speaker 1: in the army and political life and the growth of 1619 01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:26,160 Speaker 1: its membership do mainly to Soviet aid direct government interventions 1620 01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:28,519 Speaker 1: stop finally stopped the fighting in the streets and shortly 1621 01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:32,320 Speaker 1: thereafter ended the revolutions. Consolidation that has ended the the 1622 01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:35,360 Speaker 1: anarchist and sort of trotsky Is the far left like 1623 01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:38,680 Speaker 1: consolid like gaining of power, taking of businesses, all that 1624 01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:41,680 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. The immediate beneficiary of the crisis was 1625 01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,520 Speaker 1: Jan Nigrin, a forty five year old socialist physiologist, polyglot 1626 01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,920 Speaker 1: and acknowledged expert in financial affairs. As Treasury Minister, he 1627 01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:52,439 Speaker 1: organized the dispatch of gold to Moscow, whom President Azana 1628 01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:55,240 Speaker 1: appointed Prime Minister. To put an end to the indiscipline 1629 01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:58,320 Speaker 1: and disarray in the rear Guard, especially in Catalonia and Arragon, 1630 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:01,640 Speaker 1: the government took over pub order in Catalonia, dissolved the 1631 01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:05,439 Speaker 1: anarchist dominated a Council of Aragon and sent Enrique Lister's 1632 01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:08,600 Speaker 1: Communist Army Division to break up the rural Aragonese collectives 1633 01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:11,720 Speaker 1: more easily expedited the p O U WIM trotsky Is, 1634 01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,479 Speaker 1: which is the trotsky Ist militia, which they called trotsky 1635 01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:18,280 Speaker 1: Is provocateurs and fascist spies. Clamored. The Spanish Communist Party 1636 01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:21,920 Speaker 1: was outlawed, its army division disbanded, and its leader Andrew Ninn, 1637 01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:25,679 Speaker 1: one of Trotsky's former secretaries, was disappeared, in fact, kidnapped 1638 01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:28,080 Speaker 1: and murdered by the n k v D. The affair 1639 01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:30,760 Speaker 1: further deepened the distrust between Communists and the rest of 1640 01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:34,680 Speaker 1: the political organizations, especially the anarchists and left socialists, and 1641 01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:37,640 Speaker 1: it made clear to the republic serious ongoing problems of 1642 01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:41,120 Speaker 1: internal political discord, which were a considerable stumbling block to 1643 01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:43,280 Speaker 1: winning the war. On the other side of the lines, 1644 01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:45,560 Speaker 1: there was no such problem. Franco By, now head of 1645 01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,240 Speaker 1: the so called nationalist side, crushed dissent in the bud 1646 01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:52,280 Speaker 1: forcibly uniting the Phalangen Carlists, the only permitted civilian political 1647 01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:56,880 Speaker 1: organizations now. And there's a lot of debate about what 1648 01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:00,200 Speaker 1: happens in Barcelona orwell was there for most of this part. 1649 01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,320 Speaker 1: He was. He took part in the fighting in Barcelona, 1650 01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:04,439 Speaker 1: and he was with the p o u M. He's 1651 01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:07,839 Speaker 1: with this Trotskyist militia, and his recollections of the purging 1652 01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:10,439 Speaker 1: of the po U M are available for free in 1653 01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:14,160 Speaker 1: his book Homage to Catalonia. He reserves tremendous criticisms for 1654 01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:16,680 Speaker 1: the Communist Party, in large part because they murdered some 1655 01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,919 Speaker 1: of his friends. There are of course, very good critiques 1656 01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,920 Speaker 1: of Orwell's narrow perspective in this, because he's on the ground, 1657 01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:25,680 Speaker 1: and long after the war he would admit himself that 1658 01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,880 Speaker 1: he was somewhat myopic and unfair to the Republican government 1659 01:28:28,920 --> 01:28:31,680 Speaker 1: and the communists In this. Critics will point out that 1660 01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:33,280 Speaker 1: the c and T and the p O U WIM 1661 01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:36,320 Speaker 1: undermined coordination and unity in the Republic, and that the 1662 01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,280 Speaker 1: violent certain anarchists carried out against the clergy in particular, 1663 01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:41,560 Speaker 1: helped dissuade foreign governments from wanting to help. So this 1664 01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:45,640 Speaker 1: is again a complicated issue, but the fact that the 1665 01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:48,720 Speaker 1: left is literally in fighting here is a big part 1666 01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:51,439 Speaker 1: of what undermines their ability to fight the fascists. Although 1667 01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:54,640 Speaker 1: historians are very split as to how much of a 1668 01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,640 Speaker 1: factor the behavior of the Spanish Communists or which were 1669 01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:01,160 Speaker 1: directed by Moscow played in the Republic can defeat um. 1670 01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:05,560 Speaker 1: Julian Casanova directly credits the Republic's defeat mostly to the 1671 01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,320 Speaker 1: international situation, So he says, you can talk about what 1672 01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:10,920 Speaker 1: the communists did wrong with the anarchist did wrong. The 1673 01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:14,680 Speaker 1: reason Republican Spain lost is because nobody helped them out 1674 01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:17,840 Speaker 1: except for the communists a bit, whereas the fascists had 1675 01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:21,200 Speaker 1: to modern states throwing huge amounts of aid in military forces. 1676 01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:23,760 Speaker 1: It right, That's why they lost. It's like you can 1677 01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:27,479 Speaker 1: debate who made mistakes. Everybody made mistakes. They lost because nobody, 1678 01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:31,160 Speaker 1: like almost only the communists helped them in. You know, 1679 01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:33,439 Speaker 1: you just out in the fascists had a lot, Yeah, 1680 01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:37,200 Speaker 1: the fascists had a lot more help, you know. Yeah. Um. Now, 1681 01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:39,280 Speaker 1: while I think it's fair to criticize the nature of 1682 01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:41,920 Speaker 1: the help the USSR sent, both in its reduced quantity 1683 01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:44,200 Speaker 1: relative to the fascists and the fact that it made 1684 01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:46,320 Speaker 1: the republic pay up front, you have to be fair 1685 01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:48,320 Speaker 1: here and note that the Russian Civil War had not 1686 01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:50,599 Speaker 1: been over for all that long when the Spanish Civil 1687 01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,120 Speaker 1: War started, and like nine million people had died in 1688 01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,760 Speaker 1: that country. After nine million had died in World War One, 1689 01:29:56,120 --> 01:29:58,600 Speaker 1: and it was fucking devastated, Italy and Germany were in 1690 01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:02,040 Speaker 1: comparatively better shape and able to provide more aid. Now. 1691 01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:06,400 Speaker 1: British military historian Anthony Beaver, however, does blame the Republic's 1692 01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:10,400 Speaker 1: high command, which was Communist dominated and Soviet military advisors, 1693 01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:13,439 Speaker 1: for their quote disastrous conduct of the war, and he 1694 01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:16,360 Speaker 1: has some very fair critiques here. Um He criticizes them 1695 01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:20,200 Speaker 1: for engaging in multiple disastrous conventional offensives, which where this 1696 01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:22,040 Speaker 1: happened a few times, where they get a huge number 1697 01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:25,719 Speaker 1: of soldiers together, most of which were not super well trained, 1698 01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,479 Speaker 1: and send them on these massive offensives that would they 1699 01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,040 Speaker 1: would get mowed down. And the purpose of this was 1700 01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:33,640 Speaker 1: for propaganda to be able to show, look, we're advancing 1701 01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:36,320 Speaker 1: against the fascists, and of course the fascists are better 1702 01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:38,559 Speaker 1: armed in train and would just dig in and massacre 1703 01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:41,960 Speaker 1: these people. Um And and Anthony Beaver will argue that 1704 01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:46,439 Speaker 1: these this series of horrible, horrible decisions taken for mainly 1705 01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:51,400 Speaker 1: propaganda quote gradually destroyed the Republic's army and resistance. Now, 1706 01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:54,920 Speaker 1: no matter what kind of leftist or liberal or whatever 1707 01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:58,000 Speaker 1: you happen to be, there are aspects of your ideology 1708 01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:00,599 Speaker 1: that should be challenged by observing the way the Spanish 1709 01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,520 Speaker 1: Civil War win. Speaking as an anarchist, it is impossible 1710 01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:06,200 Speaker 1: to ignore the fact that the fascists had the great 1711 01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:11,640 Speaker 1: advantage of centralized control and particularly food distribution. Meanwhile, Republican 1712 01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:16,080 Speaker 1: territories had more than independent food collectives. Workers in many 1713 01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:18,439 Speaker 1: of these collectives were hostile to the government because they 1714 01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:22,520 Speaker 1: were anarchists, and in some areas money had been entirely abolished, 1715 01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:25,160 Speaker 1: and since money did exist in the rest of the Republic, 1716 01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:29,960 Speaker 1: that made cooperation difficult. Food shortages were common in the Republic, 1717 01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:33,559 Speaker 1: and this also contributed to their defeat. UM. And again 1718 01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:35,240 Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing where like this system of 1719 01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:38,280 Speaker 1: local sort of food exchanges might have worked, if they 1720 01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:40,439 Speaker 1: might have figured out how to make it work had 1721 01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:42,600 Speaker 1: there not been a war on. But it's hard. It 1722 01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:46,080 Speaker 1: is hard to beta test an entire system of social 1723 01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:51,120 Speaker 1: organization while fighting a war of extermination. Yeah, it's hard. 1724 01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:53,600 Speaker 1: It's hard to get hungry people to fight for you, 1725 01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,120 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, if we hungry, it's like, well, 1726 01:31:56,840 --> 01:31:59,360 Speaker 1: oh no, who got the food? And it's it's worth 1727 01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:01,799 Speaker 1: noting that of all the people fighting, you know, about 1728 01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:04,719 Speaker 1: half of the prisoners of war the fascists took wound 1729 01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:08,040 Speaker 1: up fighting for the fascists. They were organized into into 1730 01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:11,599 Speaker 1: fighting units um and a significant number of the captured 1731 01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,800 Speaker 1: fascists wound up fighting in units for the republics. Like 1732 01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:16,360 Speaker 1: that happened on both sides. A lot of these guys 1733 01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:19,160 Speaker 1: are just dudes, you know. Um, they're not all like 1734 01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:22,040 Speaker 1: the Internet. The International volunteers tend to be very ideological. 1735 01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:24,080 Speaker 1: That's not all the case with a lot of soldiers. 1736 01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:27,640 Speaker 1: In early nineteen thirty seven, Franco's forces had recovered from 1737 01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:30,120 Speaker 1: their defeat outside of Madrid, and they launched an invasion 1738 01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:33,400 Speaker 1: of the northern Basque territories of the Republic. The success 1739 01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:36,559 Speaker 1: of this offensive is largely credited to the Condor Legion, 1740 01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:38,920 Speaker 1: a German led air force that spent the Spanish Civil 1741 01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:42,040 Speaker 1: War experimenting with new textniques. The Loofwava would it later use. 1742 01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,519 Speaker 1: This experimentation started in earnest with the bombing of Madrid 1743 01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:48,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six, which killed and wounded a lot 1744 01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:51,120 Speaker 1: of civilians, like hundreds of people killed and wounded, but 1745 01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:55,000 Speaker 1: did nothing but harden Republican resistance. And the Germans realized this, 1746 01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:57,640 Speaker 1: Like the guys in charge of the Condor Legion of like, 1747 01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:00,599 Speaker 1: just bombing a bunch of civilian targets seems to piss 1748 01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:02,839 Speaker 1: them off and make them want a fight harder. Perhaps 1749 01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:06,400 Speaker 1: that's not the best tactic. Um. Now, several cities were 1750 01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:09,719 Speaker 1: bombarded by the Condor Legion during the advance in Tabasque territory, 1751 01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:12,600 Speaker 1: leading to a lot of civilian casualties, but none of 1752 01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:15,000 Speaker 1: these bombings were more famous than the city of Guernica 1753 01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:18,280 Speaker 1: and their significant debate over Guernica. As well, historians will 1754 01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:20,720 Speaker 1: note that the command or of the Condor Legion was 1755 01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,639 Speaker 1: more or less abiding by the rules of war um, 1756 01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,919 Speaker 1: striking at bridges and roads and cities, like aiming primarily 1757 01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:30,960 Speaker 1: for targets of military value. Um. There were civilian casualties 1758 01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,120 Speaker 1: because precision bombing is a myth, but the goal was 1759 01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:36,080 Speaker 1: not what's called terror bombing, which they kind of rejected 1760 01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:38,880 Speaker 1: after Madrid, and like this guy goes to trial in 1761 01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:41,240 Speaker 1: Nuremberg and that is kind of the conclusion of the 1762 01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:44,600 Speaker 1: Allied militaries, Like his bombing of Guernica was part of 1763 01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:48,800 Speaker 1: a military action. Like you to repeat the line that 1764 01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,320 Speaker 1: you said, precision bombing is a myth. Precision bombing is 1765 01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:56,200 Speaker 1: absolutely a myth. As someone who who watched it as 1766 01:33:56,479 --> 01:33:59,720 Speaker 1: now it was even more of avent. Yes, I have 1767 01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:03,479 Speaker 1: a friend who lives in Iraq and he's like, yeah, no, 1768 01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:06,400 Speaker 1: there's no such thing. No, No, you're just blowing up neighborhoods, guys. 1769 01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,880 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Um, Now how much of a difference it 1770 01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:12,760 Speaker 1: makes that their goal was not terror bombing? You know 1771 01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:15,000 Speaker 1: what they did. They killed a funkload of civilians and 1772 01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:18,160 Speaker 1: leveled a lot of Guernica. And it's it's horrible, horrible, 1773 01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:22,360 Speaker 1: horrible thing. I'm not trying to justify it, um, But 1774 01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:25,280 Speaker 1: what's happened in what actually happened and what is kind 1775 01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:28,160 Speaker 1: of like remembered about Guernaka are sometimes two different things. 1776 01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:32,160 Speaker 1: Because the bombing of Guernica, for whatever reason, horrifies the 1777 01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:34,719 Speaker 1: entire world. It becomes and there's what I say, forout 1778 01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:36,840 Speaker 1: ever reason, because there are other cities that are bombed 1779 01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,200 Speaker 1: in a similar manner that don't get as famous in 1780 01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 1: this period of time. Um, it's not the first time 1781 01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,439 Speaker 1: that the civilian population is bombed as a part of 1782 01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:47,360 Speaker 1: a war, but it becomes the most famous. The Republicans 1783 01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:48,720 Speaker 1: made a lot out of it and used it for 1784 01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:51,960 Speaker 1: propaganda purposes. They would claim that six people had died, 1785 01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:56,800 Speaker 1: a figure that's likely impossible because they calculated. Basically, when 1786 01:34:56,840 --> 01:35:00,240 Speaker 1: you're looking at like civilian casualties, there are calculate aations. 1787 01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:02,200 Speaker 1: You can do to estimate them by estimating the number 1788 01:35:02,200 --> 01:35:04,640 Speaker 1: of people killed per tonnage of bombs dropped. And if 1789 01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:07,280 Speaker 1: six people died in Guernica, it would meant that it 1790 01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:09,720 Speaker 1: would have meant that the Condor Legion were killing more 1791 01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:13,000 Speaker 1: civilians than the US did during its bombings of like Dresden, 1792 01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:17,000 Speaker 1: like like per per tonnage, you know, which is not possible, 1793 01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:20,280 Speaker 1: really credible. Deaf counts range from as low as a 1794 01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:22,760 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty to the to the low hundreds, which 1795 01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:26,040 Speaker 1: is terrible, Like that's hundreds of civilians killed by bombs 1796 01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:28,960 Speaker 1: from the sky. It's it's horrible. I'm not saying it's not. 1797 01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,320 Speaker 1: But again, it's also seeing the Republicans see this as 1798 01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:34,120 Speaker 1: a way to like, oh, this is something we can 1799 01:35:34,240 --> 01:35:37,680 Speaker 1: use to get international support, which we desperately need. Um 1800 01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:41,439 Speaker 1: And while Republican forces used Guernica to try to generate 1801 01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,920 Speaker 1: international sympathy, the fascists used it as a cudgel. When 1802 01:35:45,000 --> 01:35:47,799 Speaker 1: Hitler met with the Premiere of Austria prior to the Angelus, 1803 01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:51,679 Speaker 1: which is when they occupy Austria, he brings the commander 1804 01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:53,920 Speaker 1: of the Condor Legion with him as a not so 1805 01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:58,480 Speaker 1: subtle threat to Vienna because the the the image internationally 1806 01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:02,200 Speaker 1: is that Guerna has been wiped out by the Condor Legions. 1807 01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:03,880 Speaker 1: So Hitler once this guy is sitting next to him, 1808 01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:05,599 Speaker 1: so that when he meets with the premiere of Austria, 1809 01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:08,200 Speaker 1: this guy's like, they're gonna level Vienna if I don't, 1810 01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,200 Speaker 1: if I don't agree to whatever Hitler wants, you know. 1811 01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:13,320 Speaker 1: So Hitler makes a lot of use out of the 1812 01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:17,080 Speaker 1: terrible reputation that the Condor Legion gets, regardless of how 1813 01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:22,280 Speaker 1: much that reputation may be earned. Um now, the battle 1814 01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:25,439 Speaker 1: and I mainly quibble on how terrible the Condor Legion 1815 01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:28,880 Speaker 1: was because by any objective measure, the United States Air 1816 01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:31,200 Speaker 1: Force was a lot worse in World War Two in 1817 01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:33,760 Speaker 1: terms of it's its willingness to kill civilians, not in 1818 01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:37,439 Speaker 1: terms of its goals obviously, but to blast. Yeah, there's 1819 01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:41,120 Speaker 1: the yeah. I I I still can't because I mean 1820 01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:43,719 Speaker 1: I've never lived in like an actual active war zone, 1821 01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:49,920 Speaker 1: you know. But obviously more more humans alive now have 1822 01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:53,680 Speaker 1: lived in active war zones than not hand So, like, 1823 01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:56,280 Speaker 1: I know that I'm in the minority for that, and 1824 01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:59,880 Speaker 1: it's a very privileged position, but I still can picture 1825 01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:03,160 Speaker 1: or having a hard time wrapping my mind around the 1826 01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:06,559 Speaker 1: idea that like death is coming from the sky. It's fun. 1827 01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:10,320 Speaker 1: I'm saying, like that's yeah, that's it changes, you, I 1828 01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:12,200 Speaker 1: mean it changes. And just to have that experience for 1829 01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:18,720 Speaker 1: a few days. Um, it's something else, man, just like 1830 01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:23,560 Speaker 1: seeing breathing in the dust that includes pulverized concrete and 1831 01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:30,000 Speaker 1: incinerated bodies. Um. An air strike is yeah, unreal that like, yeah, 1832 01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:33,599 Speaker 1: it's a laser from space, like you can't. Yeah, there's 1833 01:37:33,680 --> 01:37:40,120 Speaker 1: like it's the hammer of God, you know. Yeah, it's terrible, Yeah, terrifying. Yeah. Now, 1834 01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:44,040 Speaker 1: the battle over Guernica was very consequential. The city's fall 1835 01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:47,599 Speaker 1: helped enable Franco's forces to cut Republican held territory in two, 1836 01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:50,519 Speaker 1: so to separate the two chunks of Republican territory, the 1837 01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:53,680 Speaker 1: north from the south. Um. Now, around the same time, 1838 01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:57,360 Speaker 1: the French, like Germany, occupies Austria and the French start 1839 01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,320 Speaker 1: getting really scared of the Nazis um and so they 1840 01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:03,120 Speaker 1: reopen their border. And this allows thousands of tons of 1841 01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:05,280 Speaker 1: war material to flow into the Republic freely for the 1842 01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:08,280 Speaker 1: first time, and the Republic is able to like gin 1843 01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:10,600 Speaker 1: up a new Republican army made up in part of 1844 01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:14,080 Speaker 1: prisoners of war and conscripts as young as sixteen UM. 1845 01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:16,320 Speaker 1: And this what's known as the Army of the Ebro, 1846 01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:18,559 Speaker 1: launches what would come to be known as the last 1847 01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:21,040 Speaker 1: great Republican assault of the war. And like there are 1848 01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:24,639 Speaker 1: other great assaults, it was a fucking disaster. Thirty thousand 1849 01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:29,640 Speaker 1: Republican fighters died to just sixty Fascist casualties. UM. Just 1850 01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:34,160 Speaker 1: an absolute nightmare. Now, the war officially ended in April 1851 01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:36,920 Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty nine with the unconditional surrender of the 1852 01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:40,600 Speaker 1: Republicans to the fascist Francisco Franco. In the areas the 1853 01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:43,519 Speaker 1: Fascist retook they were as brutal as you might expect. 1854 01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:46,320 Speaker 1: The most egregious example of this happened in August of 1855 01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,080 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six and bat Ayas, which we talked about earlier. 1856 01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:52,080 Speaker 1: That's where the anarchists and socialists take a huge amount 1857 01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:54,120 Speaker 1: of land and give it to the people. Well, the 1858 01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:56,960 Speaker 1: fascists take back bat of Yaws and they just they 1859 01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:59,280 Speaker 1: massacre everyone then get their fucking hands on. More than 1860 01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:04,400 Speaker 1: four thousand people, mostly civilians and prisoners, gunned down, including 1861 01:39:04,479 --> 01:39:07,360 Speaker 1: hundreds of people who are dragged into the bowl, ring 1862 01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:10,519 Speaker 1: to the stadium where they hold bullfights and surrounded by 1863 01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:13,280 Speaker 1: machine guns and just massacred in a circle by the 1864 01:39:13,400 --> 01:39:18,639 Speaker 1: foreign legion. Um. Now, brutality knows no allegiance in war. 1865 01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:22,440 Speaker 1: Somewhere around fifty thousand civilians were killed in the Republican 1866 01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:24,479 Speaker 1: zone over the course of the war, and acts of 1867 01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:28,479 Speaker 1: brutality that many in the Republican government deplored. Federica Montseny 1868 01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:31,800 Speaker 1: described the slaughter as a lust for blood, inconceivable and 1869 01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:36,280 Speaker 1: honest man before But republic war crimes bore little resemblance 1870 01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:38,120 Speaker 1: to the crimes of the fascists, who in the same 1871 01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:40,759 Speaker 1: period of time murdered more than a hundred and thirty 1872 01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:44,800 Speaker 1: thousand civilians. And those deaths, of course occurred during the war. 1873 01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:48,719 Speaker 1: During his decades in power, Franco's forced labor, concentration camps, 1874 01:39:48,760 --> 01:39:52,000 Speaker 1: torture and execution of political enemies led to another thirty 1875 01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:55,400 Speaker 1: to fifty thousand deaths, and as we know, that would 1876 01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:59,000 Speaker 1: make Franco one of the less deadly fascist dictators in history. 1877 01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:01,960 Speaker 1: Got um, But yeah, you can compare with the number 1878 01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:08,559 Speaker 1: of people kill. Yeah, what is it about? Just what's 1879 01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:10,439 Speaker 1: the point of being in charge? If you kill everybody 1880 01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:12,559 Speaker 1: you're supposed to be in charge of, because you're killing 1881 01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:14,920 Speaker 1: all the people you don't like that you're supposed to 1882 01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:18,599 Speaker 1: be in charge of. That's easier than arguing. Yeah, yeah, 1883 01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:22,599 Speaker 1: well touche. Yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, they're killing. 1884 01:40:22,720 --> 01:40:24,840 Speaker 1: There's like, we just killed people disagree with us. We 1885 01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:28,240 Speaker 1: just kill we disgree with us. Yeah yeah, okay, so 1886 01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:32,479 Speaker 1: my bad. I understand your logic. Now. Yeah, obviously the 1887 01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:35,599 Speaker 1: Republicans lost their war, UM, but many of the more 1888 01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:38,799 Speaker 1: than thirty five thousand men who joined the International Brigades, 1889 01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:40,680 Speaker 1: and something like ten thousand of them died in the 1890 01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:44,959 Speaker 1: Spanish Civil War. UM. Many of those guys would continue 1891 01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:48,040 Speaker 1: fighting fascism in World War Two. Some of them fought 1892 01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:50,160 Speaker 1: in the French Resistance, some of them fought in the U. S. 1893 01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:53,240 Speaker 1: Army after being by the way, when US veterans like 1894 01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:56,160 Speaker 1: l Ward come home, they get like spied on by 1895 01:40:56,200 --> 01:41:00,680 Speaker 1: the FBI because they're suspected of being communists sympathy and 1896 01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:03,920 Speaker 1: stuff like, and some of those people. Some of that 1897 01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:06,680 Speaker 1: stops when the war starts. People like, ah, maybe you 1898 01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:09,960 Speaker 1: had a point. It doesn't all stop, but a number 1899 01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:13,960 Speaker 1: of these guys continue fighting UM and while they failed 1900 01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:16,679 Speaker 1: in their ultimate goals. The battle cry of the Spanish 1901 01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:21,320 Speaker 1: anti fascists, they shall not pass or no passeran still 1902 01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:25,280 Speaker 1: rings loudly and anti fascist rallies today, and that's you know, Yeah, 1903 01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:28,280 Speaker 1: the fight isn't over. They didn't win in Spain. They 1904 01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:33,200 Speaker 1: didn't succeed in in turning back fascism and bringing in 1905 01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:36,960 Speaker 1: a new golden age for humanity there. But it didn't 1906 01:41:37,080 --> 01:41:39,280 Speaker 1: end in the fight didn't end in Spain either, you know, 1907 01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:44,840 Speaker 1: and it it continues to this day, Yes it does. 1908 01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,280 Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, let's let's let that one breathe for 1909 01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:55,800 Speaker 1: a second. Yeah, okay, everybody take a deep breath, yeah, 1910 01:41:57,240 --> 01:42:02,760 Speaker 1: breath anyway. Man, So at some point we're going to 1911 01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:07,360 Speaker 1: talk about when Spain stops being fascist. Yeah, I'm gonna 1912 01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:09,519 Speaker 1: do episodes on Franco at some point that will that 1913 01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:12,200 Speaker 1: will get into that history. Um. But this is more 1914 01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:15,760 Speaker 1: specifical about vomiting on the King's limits. Yeah, this was 1915 01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:18,920 Speaker 1: This is about fascism. You know, I wanted to talk 1916 01:42:18,920 --> 01:42:22,360 Speaker 1: about how the fascist gained power in Spain. This is 1917 01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:28,240 Speaker 1: and it's like it's such a like because of like 1918 01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:32,760 Speaker 1: you said, because of the enormity of other fascist reasimes. 1919 01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:37,600 Speaker 1: This guy gets so overlooked, but it's so such a 1920 01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:41,519 Speaker 1: pivotal moment in just even just the meta narrative. But 1921 01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:44,479 Speaker 1: what we understand is like western modern, Western civilization, like 1922 01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:46,800 Speaker 1: you have to have this moment, you know, if you're 1923 01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:49,840 Speaker 1: not talking about it, it's like you the storyline. I 1924 01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:52,720 Speaker 1: feel like the storyline doesn't make sense if you're trying 1925 01:42:52,720 --> 01:42:54,960 Speaker 1: to get from World War One to World War Two, 1926 01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:58,479 Speaker 1: and why all the players are on the play are 1927 01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:01,000 Speaker 1: on the board game the way that they are if 1928 01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:05,400 Speaker 1: you don't include the Spanish Civil War, and you you 1929 01:43:05,479 --> 01:43:08,160 Speaker 1: can argue in a lot of people historians will that 1930 01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:11,280 Speaker 1: had the Republic one, we might not have had a 1931 01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:14,400 Speaker 1: Second World War because that might have been a check 1932 01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:16,519 Speaker 1: to fascist ambitions. Now, I don't know how much I 1933 01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:19,360 Speaker 1: agree with that, it's certainly arguable that had there been 1934 01:43:19,479 --> 01:43:22,400 Speaker 1: a concerted had the had the democracies of the world 1935 01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:27,680 Speaker 1: been willing to take concerted action against the fascists in Spain, uh, 1936 01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:29,559 Speaker 1: that probably would have meant they would have been willing 1937 01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:33,320 Speaker 1: to take concerted actions to stop Hitler from gaining from 1938 01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:38,800 Speaker 1: taking over Czechoslovakia, Austria, eventually Poland, Um and then the 1939 01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:41,519 Speaker 1: Nazi state would have collapsed because it was never based 1940 01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:45,599 Speaker 1: on anything but stealing land from other people, and without 1941 01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:47,920 Speaker 1: the ability to do that, it would not have lasted. 1942 01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:49,880 Speaker 1: The economy would have collapsed, it would have been some 1943 01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:52,479 Speaker 1: sort of a revolution. Um, and maybe we would have 1944 01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:56,960 Speaker 1: not had World War two. Um, that's a pretty solid 1945 01:43:57,080 --> 01:44:01,000 Speaker 1: argument you can make. Obviously, any any historical debate like 1946 01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:02,640 Speaker 1: that is like, who knows what the truth is? I 1947 01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:04,880 Speaker 1: wonder what I wonder how the Cold War would have 1948 01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:07,720 Speaker 1: looked if we had at some point or if it 1949 01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:10,320 Speaker 1: would have been I would have been like, I guess 1950 01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:13,200 Speaker 1: the communists, I mean, I mean it's that bad, you know, 1951 01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:17,640 Speaker 1: because like you know, Stalin not a big fan of Stalin. Um. 1952 01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:20,880 Speaker 1: But you can argue, like, well, one of the best 1953 01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:23,960 Speaker 1: things that happened to Stalin's personal power was World War Two. 1954 01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:26,559 Speaker 1: If there's no World War Two, and if there's less 1955 01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:31,160 Speaker 1: open conflict between you know, fascism and communism to stalin 1956 01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:33,519 Speaker 1: state in power, does the does the Soviet Union take 1957 01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:36,280 Speaker 1: a different path that maybe more resembles what a lot 1958 01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:38,760 Speaker 1: of the people who fought for it initially wanted. Um, 1959 01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:42,880 Speaker 1: how like or yeah, I mean, who knows or does 1960 01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:44,920 Speaker 1: all of the Western world go to war in Russia 1961 01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:47,800 Speaker 1: and as many people die and an even dumber war, 1962 01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:53,439 Speaker 1: like who the funding nobody? Right, Yeah, but it's it's 1963 01:44:53,479 --> 01:44:56,720 Speaker 1: an interesting conversation to have, and I think, like, yeah, 1964 01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:59,040 Speaker 1: I I am I'm always intrigued by some of these 1965 01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:02,000 Speaker 1: like counterfactual but you know, what we what we know 1966 01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:05,920 Speaker 1: is what happened. What happened is um a very flawed 1967 01:45:06,080 --> 01:45:08,800 Speaker 1: alliance of a lot of brave people and a lot 1968 01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:12,640 Speaker 1: of messy people did their best and ultimately failed to 1969 01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:15,920 Speaker 1: stop fascism before the Holocaust. You know, it isn't kind, 1970 01:45:17,560 --> 01:45:20,040 Speaker 1: isn't at all of history a bunch of messy people 1971 01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:23,120 Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, just trying to figure this ship out, man, 1972 01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:28,320 Speaker 1: Damn Yeah, damn Robert. Yeah, there's a lot of lessons 1973 01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:30,680 Speaker 1: in there, a lot of lessons in the story of 1974 01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:33,800 Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War. And obviously I'm not I hope 1975 01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:37,519 Speaker 1: no one takes this is like anything comprehensive or or 1976 01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:40,400 Speaker 1: like anything. But here's an overview of stuff you might 1977 01:45:40,439 --> 01:45:43,880 Speaker 1: want to read more about. Yeah, totally have a lot 1978 01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:47,559 Speaker 1: more reading to do, you know. Yeah, it's it's important 1979 01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:54,960 Speaker 1: that like, you know, the the current American does we 1980 01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:59,880 Speaker 1: Yeah that that like that you know, American exceptionalism is 1981 01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:02,400 Speaker 1: to the hell of a drug that like you, we 1982 01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:04,760 Speaker 1: think that all of our issues are unique, you know 1983 01:46:04,760 --> 01:46:08,840 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Because we're uniquely special where God's little boy, 1984 01:46:09,000 --> 01:46:11,439 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So like this stuff is 1985 01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:13,560 Speaker 1: important to know, Like I mean, we we hammer it 1986 01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:15,479 Speaker 1: all the time, but just to be like, man, look 1987 01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:18,360 Speaker 1: at all these different moments throughout history, Like this ship 1988 01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:19,920 Speaker 1: is not new, you know what I'm saying, Like we 1989 01:46:20,080 --> 01:46:23,200 Speaker 1: are toddlers when it comes to the world scene, you know. 1990 01:46:24,040 --> 01:46:28,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and that's you know, Spain is going 1991 01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:31,000 Speaker 1: through a lot of the same as our colonial as 1992 01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:35,320 Speaker 1: our power as a colonial nation, ebbs, as the result 1993 01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:38,520 Speaker 1: of horrible decisions we've made and the fact that colonialism 1994 01:46:38,680 --> 01:46:41,479 Speaker 1: is never a very stable platform. We're dealing with a 1995 01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:43,360 Speaker 1: lot of the same issues that Spain was dealing with, 1996 01:46:43,560 --> 01:46:45,880 Speaker 1: you know, and in the ramp up as fascism came 1997 01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:49,280 Speaker 1: to Spain because it's fascism is in part a reaction 1998 01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:54,200 Speaker 1: to like fail failures of colonialism fail, like the like 1999 01:46:54,439 --> 01:46:56,320 Speaker 1: like like you need to have some sort of golden 2000 01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:59,040 Speaker 1: age you can market back to, right, the Italians, the Germans, Spanish, 2001 01:46:59,080 --> 01:47:01,960 Speaker 1: I'll have that um and so do American fascists, and 2002 01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:05,280 Speaker 1: so while you should never treat it all as if 2003 01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:08,280 Speaker 1: it's too similar, you also shouldn't ignore that there are 2004 01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:13,240 Speaker 1: some real similarities. Yeah, I love it anyway you could, 2005 01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:17,519 Speaker 1: you could follow Sophie and why Sophie? Why Hell yeah, 2006 01:47:17,640 --> 01:47:19,599 Speaker 1: I threw that one in there. That's a little curveball, 2007 01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:25,920 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Oh god, yeah, now profit 2008 01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:29,040 Speaker 1: fop dot com. I knew what you was gonna say. Uh, 2009 01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:36,920 Speaker 1: follow me a prop hip hop and I'll be looking 2010 01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:39,200 Speaker 1: at all y'all's replies because I'll tell you what, man, 2011 01:47:39,280 --> 01:47:42,560 Speaker 1: this pod has got some amazing fans and followers. I 2012 01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:48,400 Speaker 1: like y'all. Yes, you're like you're weird in the right ways, 2013 01:47:48,640 --> 01:47:50,280 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Like, you know, you know 2014 01:47:50,439 --> 01:47:52,800 Speaker 1: people like got like a thing. You know, it's like 2015 01:47:52,880 --> 01:47:54,760 Speaker 1: it's like you want to you want to be a 2016 01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:56,720 Speaker 1: little weird. You know, you're a little weird in the 2017 01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:59,160 Speaker 1: right ways. And I feel like if you're if you're 2018 01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:01,320 Speaker 1: not weird, I'm not a yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like, 2019 01:48:01,479 --> 01:48:04,719 Speaker 1: can't be just we don't need no like low sodium khaki, 2020 01:48:05,439 --> 01:48:09,400 Speaker 1: you know, beige fans, you know what I'm saying. Man, 2021 01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:15,640 Speaker 1: ah man, You're not wonder brid y'all like Brios. I 2022 01:48:15,760 --> 01:48:19,479 Speaker 1: don't know. I think I'm done. You had cooked my brain? Boy, 2023 01:48:21,200 --> 01:48:24,800 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm cooked, and I'm ready to cook 2024 01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:27,280 Speaker 1: another meal for next week, when we close out Behind 2025 01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:30,280 Speaker 1: the Insurrections with episodes on the fascists that failed and 2026 01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:34,600 Speaker 1: a retrospective of some anti fascists throughout history where we'll 2027 01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:39,320 Speaker 1: talk about some fun shit. Um, but that's all for 2028 01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:45,280 Speaker 1: this week. Um, So go read about the International Brigades 2029 01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:50,639 Speaker 1: and the anarchist militias of Spain. Uh. Um. Read George 2030 01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:53,439 Speaker 1: Orwell's Homage to Catalonia. But remember that it's a single 2031 01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:56,920 Speaker 1: dude's perspective who had no understanding of the broader tactical 2032 01:48:57,000 --> 01:48:59,320 Speaker 1: situation because he was just a dude fighting. But there's 2033 01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:01,839 Speaker 1: a lot of great George Orwell talking about what grenades 2034 01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:05,439 Speaker 1: are best to kill people. George Orwell was very good 2035 01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:10,840 Speaker 1: with grenade. That's the thing. Nobody, nobody told me when 2036 01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:13,720 Speaker 1: we were reading nineteen eighty four that George Orwell had 2037 01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:17,040 Speaker 1: extensively written about which grenades are best to kill fascists with. 2038 01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:20,880 Speaker 1: I probably would have paid much more attention. If I 2039 01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:23,080 Speaker 1: knew the man was like, I would have paid more attention. 2040 01:49:24,479 --> 01:49:28,839 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, it's the It's one of the coolest 2041 01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:30,760 Speaker 1: things you can be good with. That's why they called 2042 01:49:30,800 --> 01:49:35,960 Speaker 1: that other data fantastic. You know. Mr Williams, who was 2043 01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:39,080 Speaker 1: my who's my teacher? Mr Pollicky? He was Mr Pollicky 2044 01:49:39,160 --> 01:49:41,160 Speaker 1: Polosh Dude. I was like, they should have led with 2045 01:49:41,280 --> 01:49:47,280 Speaker 1: that and lead with the fact that the guy grenade Jesus. Alright, alright, 2046 01:49:49,720 --> 01:49:58,920 Speaker 1: spots over, what's up? What's up? This is Robin Dixon, 2047 01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:02,280 Speaker 1: co host of reason Doable Shadey, which has just been 2048 01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:04,920 Speaker 1: nominated for an in Double A CP Image Award in 2049 01:50:05,000 --> 01:50:09,080 Speaker 1: the Outstanding Arts and Entertainment Podcast category. This is so 2050 01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:11,639 Speaker 1: big for Gezelle and I and of course we must 2051 01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:15,720 Speaker 1: thank all of our fantastic listeners, but we need your help. 2052 01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:19,840 Speaker 1: Visit vote dot in double A CP Image Awards dot 2053 01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:23,519 Speaker 1: net to vote for Reasonably Shady. That's vote dot in 2054 01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:27,840 Speaker 1: a A CP Image Awards dot net. But don't wait. 2055 01:50:28,240 --> 01:50:32,400 Speaker 1: Voting closes on February five at nine pm Eastern and 2056 01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:36,200 Speaker 1: make sure to listen to Reasonably Shady every single Monday 2057 01:50:36,400 --> 01:50:43,519 Speaker 1: on the Black Effect Podcast Network. We've all felt left 2058 01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:46,120 Speaker 1: out and for people who moved to this country that 2059 01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:49,280 Speaker 1: feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. 2060 01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:53,320 Speaker 1: Learn how it belonging begins with us dot Org, brought 2061 01:50:53,400 --> 01:50:57,360 Speaker 1: to you by the AD Council. Hello, and welcome to 2062 01:50:57,439 --> 01:51:00,040 Speaker 1: our show. I'm Zoe Deschanel and I'm so excited to 2063 01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:02,719 Speaker 1: be joined by my friends and cast mates Hannah Simone 2064 01:51:02,760 --> 01:51:05,920 Speaker 1: and Lamar and Morris to recap our hit television series, 2065 01:51:06,120 --> 01:51:09,000 Speaker 1: New Girl. Join us every Monday on the Welcome to 2066 01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:11,719 Speaker 1: Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind the scenes stories 2067 01:51:11,760 --> 01:51:14,559 Speaker 1: of your favorite New Girl episodes. Each week, we answer 2068 01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:17,320 Speaker 1: all your burnie questions like is there really a bear 2069 01:51:17,439 --> 01:51:20,240 Speaker 1: in every episode of New Girl? Plus you'll hear hilarious 2070 01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:22,680 Speaker 1: stories like this that was one of years things you 2071 01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:31,400 Speaker 1: brought back from Hot Yeah. All professional basketball players. Yeah. 2072 01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:33,680 Speaker 1: Listen to the Welcome to Our Show podcast on the 2073 01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:37,120 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 2074 01:51:37,200 --> 01:51:37,880 Speaker 1: your podcasts.