1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: On March twenty ninth, nineteen ninety four, ten year old 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Rodney Collins was fatally struck by a stray bullet on 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: the South side of Chicago. The investigation began with two 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: alleged gang members, whose witness statements led to three more 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: young men, Marcus Wiggins, as well as brothers Reggie Henderson 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: and Sean Tyler. Wiggetts had previously been wanted for murder 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one, but Sean Tyler had come forward 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: to clear him in that case, thwarting the prosecution once again. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety four, Marcus had an airtight alibi, which 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: left just Sean and Reggie, who were arrested and eventually 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: signed statements admitting to their alleged roles in the shootout. 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: The Juries heard those statements in court, but they also 13 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: heard allegations that the statements were the product of police torture, 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: not only from Sean, Reggie and their co defendants, but 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: also from the alleged gang members who had signed witness statements. Still, 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: the jury chose to believe the police, after all, they 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: weren't the ones in some street game with escort to settle. 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction. 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: And I say that in a melancholy tone because the 20 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: story you're about to hear, well, it might make you 21 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: want to quit the human race. On the other hand, 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: it also was a story of hope. You know, I 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: can't help thinking before I even introduce our distinguished guest 24 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: today that Mick Jagger just celebrated his eightieth birthday. And 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: it was him who said, when all the cops are 26 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: criminals and all the sinners saints, and there's some real 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: heroism in this story, but it ain't coming from the 28 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: guys in blue. It's coming from the guys who are 29 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: about to hear from on this show, Sean Tyler and 30 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: Reginald Henderson, who were wrongfully convicted. There were two of 31 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: just hundreds of black men who were wrongfully convicted in 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: this era in Chicago, when police torture was the norm. 33 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: So thank you for being here today. I wrong for conviction, 34 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: Thank you forever. 35 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: Thank you for having us Jackson. 36 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: And with them to tell this incredible true story. Was 37 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: an attorney at the Exoneration Project in Illinois, Carl Leonard. 38 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. 39 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: So this happened to you when Sean was just seventeen 40 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: and Reggie you were eighteen. And although you have different 41 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: last names, you guys are full brothers, right. 42 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 4: Absolutely blood brother the same mother, same father. My father's 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 4: name is Reginald Lamar Henderson Senior. I'm junior my brother Ian. 44 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 4: That was my mother's maiden name, which is Tyler. 45 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: Okay, that explains it. Let's start with you, Rechald growing 46 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: up in Chicago. What was your childhood like before this 47 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: terrible series of events. 48 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 4: I was born to last sixteenth, the summer of nineteen 49 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 4: seventy five. I'd say childhood was like you know, any 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 4: other childhood. Growing up in the poverish communities of Chicago. 51 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 4: Things we've subjected to was normal, you know, coming up, 52 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 4: our family was a beautiful family. I love to use 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 4: the term we was raised by villains because our neighbors 54 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 4: was like aunts and uncles, and you know, everybody knew everybody. 55 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: We've always had good people around us. You know, it 56 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 2: wasn't perfect, you know, as good as it was. Our 57 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 2: parents did happened to get nabbed by the crack era. 58 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: But the love around us, you know, we've never fell 59 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: short on that. My granny and my aunts you know, 60 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: everybody had us, even when my mom and dad couldn't 61 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 2: have us. 62 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 4: That village. 63 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: He speak of aunts and uncles. They filed in the hole. 64 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: So you never felt like you was lost. So as 65 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: bad as it was, I couldn't even tell you it 66 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: was bad. 67 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: So it was difficult, but you were surrounded by love, 68 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: and that ultimately is the most important thing for a 69 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: child growing up. Absolutely, Carl, I would have turned to 70 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: you paint the picture of the crisis in law enforcement 71 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: in the city of Chicago at this time. Of course, 72 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: we've done an episode on the Midnight Crew on the 73 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: Wrong for Conviction, False Confession Show, and we've interviewed Marcus Wiggins, 74 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: whose name is going to be coming up prominently throughout 75 00:03:59,080 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: this story. 76 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: This time there was, as you mentioned, the Midnight Crew. 77 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: These are officers who were trained by or supervised by Jumberge, 78 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 3: notorious Chicago police detective who employed straight up torture to 79 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: try to get people to confess to crimes, whether they 80 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 3: committed them or not just close cases. This is torture 81 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 3: that would involve chaining people to radiators to burn them. 82 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: They would electro shock people their hands or their genitals. 83 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 3: They would take the plastic dust cover that they used 84 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 3: to cover the typewriters and strangle people with that. 85 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: They called it bagging, and they were carrying out mock executions. 86 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: I mean stuff that people were outraged when they saw 87 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: in Abu Grab. I think would be shocked to learn 88 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: that this was happening right under everybody's noses in the 89 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: city of Chicago not that long. 90 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: Ago, to children, to teenagers, and the officers that were 91 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 3: involved in shot and Reggie's case were no strangers to 92 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: those tactics. There's a recent opinion from one of the 93 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 3: Illinois Pellet courts about one of the officers involved in 94 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: this case, said that he was engaged in what they 95 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: called a criminal street gang under the direction of John Burge. 96 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: During his tenure as a Cook County detective from nineteen 97 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: seventy two, through his promotion to detective commander in nineteen 98 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: eighty one, and finally to his termination in nineteen ninety three, 99 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: John Burge developed his notorious Midnight Crew, torturing almost exclusively 100 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: young black men and boys, suspects and witnesses alike into 101 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: signing false statements to close an untold number of cases, 102 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: and the terror at the hands of the police continued 103 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: well after he was gone. The many statements they squeezed 104 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: out of people were remarkably similar, so much so that 105 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: judges and prosecutors must have seen a pattern. Eventually, this 106 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: criminal behavior was brought to light, but not before Sean 107 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: and Reggie had their lives turned upside down. And to 108 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: give their story context, we've got to talk about another 109 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: boy from their neighborhood, Marcus Wiggins, whose first run in 110 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: with the Midnight Crew. He began on September twenty fifth, 111 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, when a sixteen year old kid named 112 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: Alfredo Hernandez was gunned down in the street. 113 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 3: And later that night, officers from Area three, one of 114 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 3: the police areas, supervised by John Birch, they arrest several people, 115 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: including Marcus Wiggins, who's thirteen at the time. Wiggins himself 116 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 3: was arrested by Detective O'Brien, who you'll hear more about. 117 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 3: They bring Wiggins in and they use the torture techniques 118 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: that we've been describing. 119 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: Detectives James O'Brien and Kenneth Boujeau punched thirteen year old 120 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: Marcus repeatedly in the chest, hit him with their flashlights, 121 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: and electrocuted him until he eventually said whatever they wanted 122 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: him to say. But in spite of his coerced false confession, 123 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: Sean was able to save Marcus. 124 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 3: Sean actually witnessed the shooting of mister Hernandez. Knew that 125 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 3: the confession was false, and he spoke to wiggins defense attorney, 126 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 3: a public defender named Julie Hall, and explained to her 127 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: what he saw. 128 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: You know, basically saying that I didn't see Marcus, you 129 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: know the guys that they grabbed, that I didn't see 130 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: them that night. 131 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: And little did you know that coming forward with the 132 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,119 Speaker 1: truth would put you right in the crosshairs of the 133 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: notorious midnight crill. 134 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: That was my introduction to it. Let's just say that 135 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: I'm a kid. You know, it was scary when they 136 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: threatened to do something to me. I was coming out 137 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: the house and I didn't know who they were. They 138 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: pulled up and you know, they asked me, you know, 139 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: my name, and I told him my name and behind 140 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: that was a threat. You know, My mom had to 141 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: send me out of town after that threat. 142 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: For Sean's safety, Evie Tyler sent him to Wisconsin until 143 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: the pretrial hearing. 144 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 4: I never knew why my mother took him and sent away. 145 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 4: She never disclosed that to me or my other younger siblings, 146 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 4: but I just knew he had left. To be honest, 147 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 4: I was kind of peed off because he it is 148 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 4: I got to go to school and he's somewhere having 149 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 4: the summer vacation. And it wasn't an til years later 150 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 4: that I found out it's about some guys follow him 151 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 4: in chasing him and all. I never knew none of that. 152 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: And in response to that, the public defender in the 153 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: Wiggins case, Miss Hall got Judge Straehorn, the Kirk County 154 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 3: judge overseeing the Wiggins case, to enter a protective order 155 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: which said that these specific officers involved in the Wiggins 156 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 3: case were not allowed to interact with, speak to interrogate 157 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 3: question Sean Tyler at all period, and that nobody from 158 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 3: the Chicago Police Department should talk to Seawan either without 159 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: permission from the court. 160 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: It is our understanding that as a result of seeking 161 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: the protective order, that Miss Hall was also the victim 162 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: of threats from these same officers that she continues to 163 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: fear them to this day now. When Shawn returned from 164 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: Wisconsin to testify at Marcus's pre trial hearing, it became 165 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: clear that Marcus had been coerced into a false confession, 166 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: which was then barred from trial evidence. Without it, the 167 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: case was dismissed. 168 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: Shawn helped prove that the confession that they tortured out 169 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 3: of this child was false. It was really the first 170 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 3: time that the public was exposed to these tactics that 171 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 3: we've been talking about. 172 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: Then, in nineteen ninety three, Marcus's mother, Carolyn Wiggans, sued 173 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: the City of Chicago, arguing that the torture caused post 174 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder, as evidenced by Marcus's stutter that continues 175 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: to this very day. Other kids and even some of 176 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: these dirtbag cops began taunting him, calling him stutters. 177 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 4: To see him in interviews trying to express itself. It's 178 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 4: hard to watch because it takes me back to everything 179 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 4: we went through. 180 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: This lawsuit also came on the heels of another one 181 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: naming John Burge, which led to his termination from Cook 182 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: County PD in nineteen ninety three. Unfortunately, the Wigan suit 183 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: settled for only ninety five thousand dollars, while Burges's cohorts 184 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: remained on the force to carry on his legacy. Of torture. 185 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 3: Marcus Wiggins's case was a huge embarrassment to the Chicago 186 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: Police Department, and while Marcus Wiggins suing the police department, 187 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: while there's still a protective order in place to protect 188 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 3: Sean from these officers, they found an opportunity to get 189 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 3: revenged by framing him and Marcus originally for this crime. 190 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: And the crime in question happened around five pm on 191 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: March twenty ninth, nineteen ninety four, when a ten year 192 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: old boy named Rodney Collins was fatally shot while riding 193 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: his bike near the intersection of fifty first Street and 194 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: Winchester Avenue on the South side of Chicago. The same 195 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: detectives that had tortured Marcus Wiggins, O'Brien and Boudreau began 196 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: assembling a narrative about crossfire between two rival gangs, the 197 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: Blackstones and the Gangster Disciples. 198 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 3: If you believe the police version of events, it started 199 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 3: with a couple of anonymous tips, and who knows that 200 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 3: these tips ever even happened, but they say maybe the 201 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: Gangster Disciples, maybe they were involved. And then there's another 202 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 3: anonymous tip that says it was Twan and Yogi. So 203 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 3: the police arrested. Antoine Ward, who was known as Twan Antwine, 204 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 3: tells the police that he doesn't know anything about this crime, 205 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 3: doesn't know what happened. He's beaten by the police, he's threatened. 206 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: He's left in an interrogation room for twenty four hours. 207 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 3: He wasn't taken to the bathroom. He had to urinate 208 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: on the floor at one point. And after a couple 209 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 3: days of this, he finally gives a statement that he 210 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: provided a gun to somebody named Carl Brannigan, and. 211 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: Carl Brannigan was allegedly affiliated with the Gangster Disciples. Now, 212 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: what about. 213 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 3: Yogi is a nickname for someone named Kenneth McGraw. And 214 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: just like Twan, he's beaten, and eventually he agrees to 215 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 3: give a statement where he gives three nicknames, Droopy, Stutter, 216 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 3: and Bullwinkle. He identifies a photo of Marcus Wiggins as Stutter, 217 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 3: and he identifies a photo of Reggie as Bullwinkle. For 218 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 3: whatever reason, he's never asked to identify any photos or 219 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 3: anything or otherwise explain who Droopy is. 220 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: Now, Sean, was that your nickname? 221 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: Even at seven years old, I had this exact same face, 222 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: So you know the face has always been big and hanging, 223 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 2: you know, hints the name droopy, you know, like the dog. 224 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: But with this protective order in place, they went after 225 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: Marcus and Reggie first. Now was Bullwinkle your nickname? 226 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 4: So here's the thing. Man. As a child, I was 227 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 4: always called Moose. With Moose came the Bullwinkle and Rocky show. 228 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 4: Everybody told me I looked like which I didn't find 229 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 4: funny because as a kid, I had big lips. I 230 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 4: think they were like, no fucking Bullwinkle. So it was 231 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 4: something that some people found funny and I didn't find funny. 232 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 4: So excuse my French, but you've seen Bullwinkle, so I 233 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 4: don't think I looked like that. But nevertheless, that's where 234 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 4: it came from. 235 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: So they got what they needed from Yogi aka Kenath McGrath, 236 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: and on March thirtieth, nineteen eighty four, they snatched up 237 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: eighteen year old Reggie. 238 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 4: They was relentless in the things that they did. Like 239 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 4: Carl said, the exact same thing that you know happened 240 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 4: to Twyn in a dog room. Now they able used 241 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 4: the bathroom. Even to this day, it's traumatizing. 242 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: They left Reggie handcuffed to a wall alone for twenty 243 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: four hours with no access to a toilet. The following day, 244 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: detectives folly and Hollerin demanded details of Shawn and Reggie's involvement. 245 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: After repeated denials, one of them grabbed Reggie by the throat, saying, quote, 246 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: we know you're lying and you're going to get fifty 247 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: fucking years from murder end quote. Then they delivered blows 248 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: to his chest. 249 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 4: I can't recall specifically who it was, that guy folly Man, 250 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 4: you know his tactics again, Like, I'm trying my best 251 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 4: not the gey emotional about it while reliving it, because 252 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 4: I'm seeing it as I speak about it. 253 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: Later on, Reggie was put into a live lineup and 254 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: was not identified, but was then brought to what was 255 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: called the Mission Room, where he was forced to sign 256 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: a statement in front of Assistant State's Attorney Stephen Kleczynski. 257 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: The statement was never read aloud to Reggie, who importantly 258 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: at the time was functionally illiterate. 259 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was something that I didn't right. I think 260 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 4: anybody would do, you know, what they needed to do 261 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 4: to get out of situation like that. 262 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: This statement named Marcus Wiggins as well as said Reggie 263 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: had handed a gun to his little brother Sean before 264 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: the shootout. Now, the police were emboldened to ignore Seawn's protective. 265 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: Order and they go to his house. They leave a card. 266 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 3: His mom told him, do the right thing. Talk to 267 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 3: the police, tell them what you know. 268 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: So I did call the number on the car and 269 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: they walked me into Area one. They put me in 270 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: this room, handcuffed me to the ball. That was the 271 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 2: introduction and the ending was me being rushed out of 272 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: the same police station that I walked into out the 273 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: back door to an emergency room for throwing up blood 274 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: after signing the false confession. 275 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by Marsh mccleannan, the world's lead 276 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: professional services firm in the areas of risk, strategy and people. 277 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: It's legal and compliance department provides pro bono legal assistance 278 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: and other support to underrepresentative communities and individuals. 279 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 5: Being a big brother, I feel I had to do 280 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 5: what I had to do to protect my siblings. 281 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 4: It's no that I couldn't protect me. It was like 282 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 4: the weak see the world. And here we are man 283 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 4: thirty years later. 284 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 3: And remember, at this time, Sean is a kid. He's 285 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: being he's tortured, but he's also told that the police 286 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: broke his big brother. In his mind, if they can 287 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 3: break my big brother, what chance do I stand. They 288 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 3: get this false confession from Sean, like Sean says he's 289 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 3: throwing out blood, He's taken to the emergency room. All 290 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 3: of this is documented. The police then continue to talk 291 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 3: to other witnesses, evidently under the impression that these false 292 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 3: confessions aren't enough, possibly because they're not substantiated by any 293 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: physical evidence. 294 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: Before Shawn was rushed to the hospital, a witness named 295 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: Andrea Murray was called in to view a lineup and 296 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: allegedly identified Sean, as well as another guy named Michael Taylor, 297 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: who also after his own torture session, had signed a 298 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: statement saying that he was the one who had accidentally 299 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: shot Rodney Collins. So now they had the alleged shooter 300 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: and accomplished supported by an alleged eyewitness. But the statements 301 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: from Sean, Michael Reggie, Kenneth McGraw, Antoine Ward were riddled 302 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: with glaring inconsistencies and obvious contradictions. 303 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: So they had to go back and try to revise 304 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: some of these statements, Like Reggie's statement. 305 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: Reggie allegedly handed Sean a gun, but in Shawn's statement 306 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: it was Carl Brannigan. Also, Reggie and McGraw's statements were 307 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: written before detectives knew that Marcus Wiggins was away at 308 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: school in Wisconsin at the time of the shooting. So 309 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: now both McGraw and Reggie had signed statements containing the 310 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: exact same line. 311 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 3: So they have Reggie changed that to say, actually, Wiggins 312 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 3: wasn't there. I was with this guy Travis Ashby, who 313 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 3: come to find out, also couldn't have been involved. So 314 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 3: they changed the statement again to say that it was 315 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 3: with Andrew Ganaway. 316 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: Oh, and Ganaway's nickname was also Drew By. Now ultimately 317 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: five young men were charged in the murder of Rodney Collins, 318 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: Sean Reggie, Michael Taylor, Andrew Ganaway, and Antoine Ward. Curiously, 319 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: Carl Brannigan, who represented a contradiction between Shawn and Reggie's statements, 320 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: he was never charged. Andrew Ganaway pleaded guilty for a 321 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: thirty eight year sentence, not exactly a deal, and perhaps 322 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: he was actual droopy. Nevertheless, Sean went to trial alongside 323 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: Michael Taylor in September nineteen ninety five. 324 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 2: My attorney at the time was a Frank Medea, and 325 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: I think the prosecutor was Matthew Coughlin. 326 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 6: Yeah. 327 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: The judge was Henry R. Simmons, a former assistant States 328 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: Attorney who decades later was named in several civil suits 329 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: as a co conspirator of the Midnight Crew, where during 330 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: his tenure as an assistant State's attorney he actually took 331 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: handwritten notes during the false confessions of torture victims. So 332 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: this guy Simmons was no stranger to the language of 333 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: the false statements being read in his courtroom for Sewn 334 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: and Michael. What else did the state present? 335 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 3: They presented evidence that there had been this sort of 336 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 3: gang conflict that sort of led up to these shots 337 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: being fired that hit the ten year old boy. They 338 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 3: presented a couple of eyewitnesses from the scene, kids who 339 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,719 Speaker 3: were out there with the victim, who described sort of 340 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 3: what happened. But the really interesting thing is nobody who 341 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 3: actually witnessed the shooting said that it was Sean for 342 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 3: that they had Andrea Murray, she identified Sean and also 343 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 3: Michael Taylor as someone that she saw running through the 344 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: alley behind her house, which was in the general vicinity 345 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: of where the shooting happened. It turns out he had 346 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: received some benefits from the police or the state. They 347 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 3: paid for her to move, they provided money for a 348 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 3: security deposit and rent prior to her testimony. 349 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: And it will surprise exactly no one that this incentivized 350 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: witness later recanted, which we'll get into in further detail 351 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: later on. Now. The defense called it alibi witness Donald Jones, 352 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: who testified that he and Sean had played video games 353 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: that afternoon before going to the mall. Sean said the same, 354 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: as well as detailed what happened in the interrogation room. 355 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: His cousin Teresa Bonner, and his mother ev Tyler also 356 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: testified to seeing the signs of physical abuse on Sean 357 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: after his interrogation. Then the state added insult to injury 358 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: by calling the doctor who had treated Sean at the hospital. 359 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Bruce Tizes, said that Seawan had not mentioned being abused. 360 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: I didn't see that coming, you know, him denying that 361 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 2: he was told what was going on and everything. You know, 362 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: I explained to him for the reason as to why 363 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 2: I said I was vomiting blue. 364 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the doctor was an effective rebuttal witness. And then, remarkably, 365 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: Sean's attorney failed to present any evidence about the motives 366 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: of the Midnight Crew. 367 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 3: The defense did not present any evidence about Marcus Wiggins 368 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 3: and the protective order, so that really important part of 369 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 3: the story. The jury never did get to hear Sean. 370 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: Did you hold out any hope that the jury was 371 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: gonna actually finally see the truth and get this right? 372 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 2: I did. I never looked at it from the side 373 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 2: of how deep it really was. You know that cops 374 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 2: had testified, who's intertwine with his crooked state's attorneys, who's 375 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 2: hooked up with a judge who shouldn't have never set 376 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 2: on the bench. I'm blind sided by believing that as 377 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 2: a kid that right gun outdo wrong and to have 378 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: it go the opposite way was breathtaking, you know. And 379 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: to hear them come back and say guilty took the 380 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: breath out of me because I'm hearing them while looking 381 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 2: at my mother watching her flip out, and my cousins 382 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: and my brother. I'm here in my family scream out. 383 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: I'm hearing the family of the kids. They're cheering, and 384 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 2: this brings about the altercation between family and family, and 385 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: I'm here and this says I'm being rushed to the 386 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 2: back by the sheriffs. How was I know the whole 387 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 2: setup was rigg to take me down? Because as a kid, 388 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 2: I should have shut my damn mouth as a kid, 389 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 2: I should have minded my damn business. As a kid, 390 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: I should have ignored television ads and America with you know, 391 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: teach your kid to do the right thing, raise your 392 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 2: child the right way, and only for you to turn 393 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: around and say, because you did everything we said, take 394 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 2: this fifty eight years. 395 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: The alleged shooter, Michael Taylor got sixty years, and his 396 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: alleged accomplished Sean got fifty eight, a discrepancy that was 397 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: later corrected to fifty years for Sean cold Comfort considering 398 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: his actual innocence of nineteen ninety six. The family experienced 399 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: their second tragic loss when Reggie went to trial alongside 400 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: Antoine Ward. Reggie's attorney was Leo Fox, and again Matthew 401 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: Coglan prosecuted in front of Henry R. Simmons, and again 402 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: the jury heard the false statements. Then the state called 403 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: Kenneth McGraw, but instead of identifying Reggie from the stand 404 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: as he allegedly had done from a photo, he testified 405 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: about the torture that led to his own false statement 406 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: to rebut the allegations from McGraw, Reggie and Antoine. The 407 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: state called the actual criminals the perpetrators of the torture. 408 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 4: They had these cricket detectives whose up their land and 409 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 4: the state's attorneys. They gave their rendition of what they 410 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 4: felt took place. 411 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: Detective O'Brien denied that Reggie was even in the station 412 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: on the day he had been picked up March thirtieth, 413 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. Then Detective Hallerin denied any abuse in 414 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: the mission room or the detective Foli had even been there, 415 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: and he was joined by an assistant state's attorney named 416 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: Virginia Brigaine, who claimed that she was present on March 417 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: thirty first and that no abuse took place. And it 418 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: appears that the jury gave them all the benefit of 419 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: the doubt over Reggie, who also took the stand that day. 420 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 4: I was doing man from the beginning, sadly to say man, 421 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 4: but my mother she had to sit and watch. That 422 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 4: got so intense with the aggression of the state's attorney 423 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 4: and trying to get me to respond. Matthew Cocklem even 424 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 4: came behind the encounter and jumped in my face of 425 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 4: saying how he was going to prove that I was 426 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,959 Speaker 4: a gang banger and looking for a response. And I 427 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 4: didn't respond, but my mother did. It was at that 428 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 4: point that they removed her from the court room. I 429 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 4: don't think we were ever able to say what transpired 430 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 4: because of the dynamics we were in the story of 431 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 4: the fixed fight, and who would listen back then, the 432 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 4: jury wasn't able to come to the greatest conclusion without 433 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 4: the history of these guys. 434 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: And you know, you've already seen what had happened to 435 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: your brother. So did you have any hope at all 436 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: that the jury would finally see the light and get 437 00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: this right? 438 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 4: Gave me hope. It was a juror. It was a 439 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 4: Latino juror, and he was staring at me doing trial. 440 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 4: The guy shook his head like, man, I guess to say, 441 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 4: you're doing good. And when they came from deliberating, this 442 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 4: guy couldn't look at me no more. And I was 443 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 4: trying to get his eye contact and the man literally 444 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 4: turned his head. 445 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: Man. 446 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 4: That was kind of like how known I was found guilty. 447 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 4: I just hated to see my mother go through it again. 448 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 4: They escorted her out because she ran to the thing, 449 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 4: screaming to the jurors like like, no, this is my segment, 450 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 4: Like no, y'all got it wrong. 451 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 5: It's the second one. So my auntie grabbed her and 452 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 5: they escorted her out. You know what's crazy is that 453 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 5: the bailiffs. They know it's wrong, Miss Roberts. And this 454 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 5: was another Latino bailiff. I'll never forget miss Roberts. They 455 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 5: knew they was wrong. They said, I knew you too, 456 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 5: two guys, was going wrong. 457 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: When my mother told me to do the right thing 458 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one, and then when y'all came looking 459 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 2: for me in the Rodney Collins case and said we 460 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 2: needed to talk to him and left a card. Clearly, 461 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 2: you presented yourself as someone who was nice and it 462 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 2: was gonna be okay when you left the card because 463 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 2: she told me to go to the police station. You 464 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: understand that. So to be a mother who two times 465 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 2: called herself doing the right thing what America tell her 466 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 2: to do, see something, say something, help out, she did 467 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: that tried to lead me to do the same thing, 468 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: and each time y'all took advantage of her. So to 469 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: be in prison for something you didn't do, to be 470 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 2: wrongfully convicted to call home and find out that she's 471 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: had a stroke, and the things that led to the 472 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 2: stroke was to worry, and because you called and home 473 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: constantly to check on your mother, and people are telling 474 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 2: you things that you don't want to hear. 475 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 4: Literally and from prison, how she's going crazy damn hugging 476 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 4: trees and shit and losing two boys at the same time. 477 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 4: The depth of the trauma, man, is undisputable. 478 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 3: Man. 479 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 2: Can't nobody tell me that the weight of all of this, 480 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 2: that this situation was responsible for not just her two strokes, 481 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: but eventually the heart attack that she suffered. It'll never 482 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 2: be okay, Jason, And I'm seeing the therapist right now, 483 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 2: and I can say that priordly, but it'll never be 484 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 2: okay because what I've seen from seventeen to forty two. 485 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: I shouldn't have seen. I shouldn't have been placed an 486 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 2: adults for something I didn't do during twenty five years. 487 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 2: I shouldn't have been subjected to all the things that 488 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: incarceration does. But you did so for a seventeen year 489 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: old kid. 490 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 4: I think we always kept the faith that was instilled 491 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 4: inis as children. Man, whose core values is what got 492 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 4: us through him through his twenty five years and me 493 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 4: through my twenty six years and nine months. There was 494 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 4: many people impacted by this. I left the world with 495 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 4: a five month old child and to come home with 496 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 4: a damn that twenty eight year old child and three 497 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 4: grant children, Like, how do you accept that. 498 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: All that was taken from Shawn and Reggie's family and 499 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: countless other families by the Midnight Crew and their enablers 500 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: in the State's Attorney's office and on the bench. It's 501 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: unfucking believable and it's unforgivable. Eventually, John Burde served a 502 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: few years in prison for perjury in a civil suit, 503 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: but again cold comfort. Meanwhile, none of his accomplices ever 504 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: lost their freedom. So let's get to how Sean and 505 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: Reggie regained theirs. Starting with Sean, so he appealed his conviction. 506 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: The conviction was a firm in June of nineteen ninety eight, 507 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: when the post conviction petition was filed in October of 508 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight. That post conviction petition was pending continuously 509 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: up and down from the appellate courts is nineteen ninety eight, 510 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: so he files his own pro se post conviction petition 511 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: his allegations were that Marcus Wiggins public defender Julie Hall 512 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: would be available to testify about what happened in the 513 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: Marcus Wiggins case. Clearly an effective assistance of his trial council, 514 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: who should have raised the Texas motivation to target him. 515 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: So when did the petition start to gain traction? 516 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 3: In two thousand and eight, the exoneration project ends up 517 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 3: filing an amendment to it. I'd say there were sort 518 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 3: of four big pieces of evidence of actual innocence. We 519 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 3: had new evidence of these officers patterned in practice of misconduct. 520 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: We had additional evidence from alibi witnesses. We had new 521 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 3: evidence related to the fact that Sean had been vomiting 522 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 3: blood and that was caused by the beating that he received. 523 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 3: And we had Andrea Murray's recantation. In her affidavit, Andrea 524 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 3: Murray said that we heard these gunshots. She called nine 525 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 3: one one. She saw two boys run through the alley 526 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 3: near her house, and she felt that she didn't get 527 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: a good enough look at the two boys to really 528 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 3: be of any assistance. She felt that the police intimidated 529 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 3: her and threatened her, and that she had no choice 530 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 3: but to go to the police. Station. They wanted her 531 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 3: to come see a lineup, and the first thing they 532 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: do is show her photos of Sean Tyler and Michael 533 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 3: Taylor and said that they needed her to pick these 534 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 3: two out of the lineup. 535 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 6: Jesus Christ. 536 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: So they blew right past suggestion to full blown fabrication. 537 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 3: She's then taken to the lineup. She said that she 538 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 3: remembered Sean's face from the photo and so she was 539 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 3: able to pick him out, and she says the detective 540 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 3: said something to her like, good job. She at first 541 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 3: wasn't able to pick out Michael Taylor. She thought that 542 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 3: two of the guys in the lineup looked similar to 543 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 3: the photo she had been shown, but she wasn't sure. 544 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 3: So she says that she basically guessed and said it's 545 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 3: the person in the number two position in the lineup, 546 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 3: and detective says something on the lines that are you sure, 547 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 3: and that led her to say, actually, it's the person 548 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 3: in number one, and the detective said, good job. 549 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: And so the only evidence that did not arise from 550 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: torture and brutality had now finally been exposed. 551 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 3: And also she disclosed that she'd been paid in exchange 552 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 3: for her testimony that was new evidence for us. 553 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: So how did this recantation play out in appellate court? 554 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: When it came time to have an evidentiary hearing, the 555 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 3: State went and spoke to her. She ultimately sat for 556 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 3: a deposition at which she was not fully consistent with 557 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 3: what she said in her affidavit to us. I don't 558 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 3: know what her motivations were for changing her story, but 559 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 3: she did. All the claims were denied. We appealed, the 560 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 3: appellate court reversed and sent it back for another evidentiary 561 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 3: hearing that happened in twenty fifteen. 562 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, during that stretch, the Illinois General Assembly formed the 563 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: Torture Inquiry and Relief Commission in two thousand and nine 564 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: to investigate the Midnight Crew, exposing a dense history of 565 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: tortured false confessions and witness statements, and the findings of 566 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: this commission eventually played a role in this case. 567 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 3: Following the remand from the appellate court in twenty fifteen, 568 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 3: the State's Attorney's office undertook a really lengthy investigation attempted 569 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,719 Speaker 3: to get all sorts of files from other cases, what 570 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 3: we would call the pattern cases. The other individuals which 571 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 3: I've accused the same officers of similar misconduct. They did 572 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 3: a bunch of work researching those. That process took an 573 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 3: extremely long time. In the meantime, Reginald filed his post 574 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 3: conviction petition in twenty nineteen, which then sort of followed 575 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: the same path as Sean's delegations of misconduct by the 576 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 3: same officers, ineffective assistance of counsel for failing to investigate 577 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 3: an alibi. 578 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: And we'll get to that in a minute. But Reggie, 579 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: did I read this right? Your initial appeal that was 580 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: filed in two thousand, it was just lost, like gone. 581 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 4: It was crazy to me. I went to looking for it, 582 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 4: knew it was filed, and somehow it disappeared and I 583 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 4: couldn't tell you how, where, when, But it disappeared after 584 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 4: they lost my petition in two thousand and then I 585 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 4: found in two thousand and seven. Again, I said, for 586 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 4: eleven years almost with continuous and continuous and continuous by 587 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 4: two thoy nineteen, and once I seen the petitioned the 588 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 4: I'm like, wow, he he was targeted, Like I'm like 589 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 4: what I never knew? And dn exceed the history of it, 590 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 4: The depth of it was our judge Henry L. Simmons 591 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 4: being attached to these detectives, and my attorneys took it 592 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 4: from there. 593 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: And that was Stephen Hall and Jennifer bon Jean. But 594 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: even with the evidence that was available in two thousand 595 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: and eight, coupled with the momentum from the Torture Commission, 596 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: it's insane how long it all took. 597 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 3: Talking about the delays a little bit, it reminded me 598 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: of another case that involves some of the same detectives, 599 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 3: another Exoneration Project case George Anderson. He was recently exonerated. 600 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 3: The Torture Inquiry and Relief Commission had looked at the case, 601 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 3: and there was a concurring opinion from one of the 602 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 3: Appellate Court justices, Justice Hyman, who addressed sort of this 603 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 3: issue and said Anderson was twenty eight years old in 604 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one. Anderson, now sixty years old, has waited 605 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 3: over three decades for this day. For an injustice like 606 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 3: that should have provoked an urgent reaction from the beginning. Instead, 607 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 3: for far too many of these victims of police brutality, 608 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 3: delay has immeasurably deprived them of their liberty, compounded their suffering, 609 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: impeded their healing. An injustice never ceases to be an 610 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 3: injustice until justice prevails. 611 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: Amen to that. And your cases were no different because 612 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't a judicial process but parole that saw Sean 613 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: release after twenty five years on Beverly fifteenth, twenty nineteen, 614 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: and Reggie after twenty six years and nine months on 615 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: April sixteenth, twenty twenty. 616 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 4: Thirty days after COVID struck. 617 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: Unreal, but at least you got to reunite with your 618 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: family after all these years. 619 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 4: Well, the greatest part about it was that I was 620 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 4: able to see my mother gam. 621 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you shared video of that moment. 622 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 6: It's beautiful. 623 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 4: Probably like a year after coming home. My birthday is thirteen. 624 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 4: Mother's day was May fourteenth, and was getting a call 625 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 4: at three in the morning. She was telling me she 626 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 4: couldn't breathe. I rushed over to her. She clapsed, Moms, 627 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 4: and I minished the CEPR tour. She ended up passing. 628 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 4: The crazy part about it is when I looked up 629 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 4: my grandchildren sitting on and there looking at me right 630 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 4: after that. Man, it was just it was horrific, man, 631 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 4: because every thirty to forty days it was from my 632 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 4: mother to my younger cousin. Literally the people who was 633 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 4: accepting our collect calls is the people that passed away. 634 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 4: And the day we were exonerated September seventeenth, twenty twenty one, 635 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 4: no older cousin. She always been like my sister. She 636 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 4: died an hour later. Once we left the courthouse, she 637 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 4: died an hour later. 638 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 2: She is the same cousin who came to see me 639 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: when they tortured me and testified that my face was swollen. 640 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 2: On the day of the exoneration, it was over with. 641 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 2: We was on the stairs and they planned to put 642 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 2: a little get together that night. She hugs us, congratulations, 643 00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: I fila, go get my hair done and I see 644 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 2: all the night. And hour later they called a cessation 645 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 2: had auto attacked, and. 646 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: That so how much tragedy can one family handle? Even 647 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: the day they were exonerated was overshadowed. Nonetheless, it had 648 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: finally come to pass. Their convictions were vacated and the 649 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: state chose not to pursue anything further. Yet they still 650 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: have not granted their certificates of actual innocence, which would 651 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: make them eligible for state compensation. They're suing civilly, but 652 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: neither of them have been waiting around for that. They're 653 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: doing public speaking, They've written books, and Sean has a 654 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: clothing line that he began working on in prison called 655 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: New Vision. 656 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 2: New Vision is spelled in U V I S E 657 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 2: A N. I'm in the process of the building a 658 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 2: whale page, but you can't see most of it on 659 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 2: the Instagram or the New Vision underscore, and you can 660 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 2: DM me. I'm also an author of six books I 661 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 2: would love assistance own. They're completed now they're putting them in. 662 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 2: The form is up to the people that got that 663 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 2: job titled, so look me up. 664 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: So we'll have your Instagram linked in the bio so 665 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: folks can check out the clothing and reach out for 666 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 1: public speaking or to help with publishing these books and 667 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: your website. Now, Reggie, I understand you do spoken word 668 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: and have a book of poems called Emancipated Thoughts, and 669 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,320 Speaker 1: people can also reach out to you for public speaking, right. 670 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you can find me on Instagram at the 671 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 4: Ripple Effect Tha Ripple Effects. Outside of spoken Word, I 672 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 4: have a show on app amp where you can look 673 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 4: me up The Ripple Effect. Again. I love to speak 674 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 4: on all topics, whether it be prison reform, vinus prevention, 675 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 4: cognitive behavior therapy, traumatization. So again I'm just, you know, 676 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 4: just trying to get out there and do the right 677 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 4: thing by speaking about the wrongdoings of the world. 678 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll have both of your handles linked in the bio. 679 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: And now that brings us to my favorite part of 680 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: the show, closing arguments, which works like this. I'm first 681 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: of all gonna thank you guys for courageously sharing this 682 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: incredible and terrifying, harrowing and sickening story. And now I'm 683 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: going to kick back and by chair, turn my microphone off, 684 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: leave my headphones on, close my eyes, and just listen 685 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: for any final thoughts you want to share with us. 686 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 3: I think my sort of closing thoughts are just to 687 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 3: thank people for listening to this. I think a lot 688 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 3: of times people ask what can we do? How can 689 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 3: we help? And I never know, but I think you're 690 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 3: doing it by listening to this podcast or reading about 691 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,959 Speaker 3: Sean and Reggie's story. I think at some point you're 692 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 3: going to be called for jury duty, or your friends 693 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 3: are or your spouse's or something like that, or you're 694 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 3: going to be called upon to vote for prosecutor a 695 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 3: judge or something like that, and you have done a 696 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 3: lot to educate yourself that people falsely confess, sometimes the 697 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 3: police get the wrong guy, sometimes people lie in court. 698 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 3: And you know that by educating yourself about Sean and 699 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 3: Reggie's story and listening to them, and I think that helps, 700 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 3: and talking dear friends and family about this sort of 701 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 3: thing helps. So I just try to thank the program 702 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 3: for doing this story and thank everyone for listening to it. 703 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 2: I equally want to thank you, guys, because you know, 704 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 2: without you guys, you know a lot of us who 705 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 2: have been through this, the struggle on the platform like this, 706 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 2: you know a lot of us don't get the opportunity 707 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 2: to you know. And I know a lot of guys 708 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 2: who are still incarcerated, who have been wrongfully convicted, who 709 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 2: are torture survivors, who should equally be here. But the 710 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 2: system is not swift. It's not fast, you know, and 711 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 2: guys shouldn't have to, like he said, with George Anderson, 712 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 2: be sixty before they received something they should have been received, 713 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 2: you know. So I thank you guys for just you know, 714 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 2: allowing us to have a voice, man, because we do 715 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 2: look to inspire, uplift and motivate people when people hit 716 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 2: a story want them to say to theyself that it 717 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 2: really ain't that bad for them, Because if your situation 718 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 2: ain't mind, if you wasn't tortured as a teen, if 719 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 2: you wasn't kidnapped from your mother, if you wasn't, you know, 720 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 2: forced to serve twenty five years, you know, if that's 721 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 2: not your story and it ain't close to that, then 722 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 2: tiny your boots up, dust yourself, all say to yourself 723 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 2: that it ain't that bad, because it really can be worse. 724 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 2: But I thank you, man, and I thank the listeners 725 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 2: for allowing us the opportunity to share our story with 726 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 2: you guys out there, because again, those of us who 727 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 2: are seeking justice, we can't get it without the assistance 728 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 2: of everybody. 729 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 4: Is it okay? 730 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 2: If Reggie closed one of his spoken word pieces. 731 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 6: It's totally up to him. 732 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 4: Put me on funks, all right, no pressure, man, Go ahead, 733 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 4: Big broke in with this poem called growing Things. It's 734 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 4: been three years since I've been back on the streets, 735 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 4: and things that was once misunderstood it's now seen is 736 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 4: mentally deep. I was an adolescent who once questioned the 737 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 4: wrongs and rights of life. So where's the curiosity that 738 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 4: produced its rebellious plight? Society? Said, blame on my mother, 739 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 4: But in actuality she had done that best, from the 740 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 4: nurturing of her breast to the appropriate way I was 741 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 4: taught to dress and address. So I guessed it was 742 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,320 Speaker 4: just a young man's quest for self respect, and in 743 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 4: retrospect there's a few things I regret, but nevertheless it 744 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 4: was all a part of life's test. So many say 745 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,359 Speaker 4: take the bit of what to sweep, Yet things has 746 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 4: never been sweet for me. Raised in a single parent home, 747 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 4: mine left the room always thinking, damn, what was really 748 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 4: wrong that me and my brother deserve to be left alone? 749 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 4: Through it all, Mom stood strong, but the psychological alteration 750 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 4: was done, and as time went on it all started 751 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 4: to show, from her late night hanging out to the 752 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 4: abuse of drugs and alcohol. So with the decrease of 753 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 4: love now being shown at home, I had to the streets, 754 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 4: where the snakes in the rest room started hustling stealing. 755 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 4: So the void feeling that the career was given the 756 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 4: streets was now fulfilling. Damn, how was our tribulations before 757 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 4: the world's eyes. Family members criticized, never once considering the 758 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,839 Speaker 4: fact that my mother's public aid could no longer provide, 759 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 4: and their heavy attempt to retrieve a nine to five 760 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 4: ended with silent christ from one didn't have what she 761 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 4: and her children survived. So action. Are we the pitting 762 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 4: me of poverty stricken lives or just a misfortune through 763 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 4: the world's eyes? These are my growing things. 764 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. 765 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 6: You can listen to this. 766 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: And all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 767 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. 768 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,760 Speaker 1: I want to thank our production team Connor hall Any, Chelsea, 769 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: Lyla Robinson, and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow 770 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Awardis, and Jeff Cleiber. The 771 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR 772 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across 773 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at 774 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at 775 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava 776 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one