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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: This is a show where we unlock the diary of

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Speaker 2: our old episodes with the key of our current feelings

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Speaker 2: plus case up.

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Speaker 1: That was amazing, right, that's exactly what we're doing. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the work of Alison Augusta. Oh, it's written right there.

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Speaker 1: It's written on this piece. I thought you just fucking

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Speaker 1: just blew that out of your brain.

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Speaker 2: Well that's good writing. But it's already there and it

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Speaker 2: sounds real natural.

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Speaker 1: Good acting. Okay, today, it's good reading. Today we're rewinding

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Speaker 1: episode ninety nine, which we named Shinkick shin kick. I

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Speaker 1: wonder why. Let's find out.

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Speaker 2: This episode originally came out on December seventh, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into the intro of episode ninety nine.

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Speaker 2: Yes, do you hear the sounds of the podcast train

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Speaker 2: of the ghost podcast train?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, hasn't been a ghost podcast train and five

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Speaker 1: of yours.

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Speaker 2: That voice has gone totally into a southern bell area

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Speaker 2: that where it doesn't belong.

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Speaker 1: I love it there. I want to stay there.

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Speaker 2: It was supposed to be an old a minor forty

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Speaker 2: nine er. Yeah, but no, I've changed the scene.

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Speaker 1: I don't care. I love it there great, Thank you

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Speaker 1: for your support. Welcome to my favorite murder. Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: Georgia hard start, that's Karen Kilgarriff, and we heard it.

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Speaker 1: Talk to you about a couple things called crimes and

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Speaker 1: true truthness.

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Speaker 2: We love truthiness, we also enjoy talking about crimes.

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Speaker 1: We'll never lie to you, well, well not get things right, yes,

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Speaker 1: not intentionally right, you're right, but we won't lie. But

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Speaker 1: there will be times when we deeply mislead you, uh huh.

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Speaker 2: And we'll get you to say the wrong thing to

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Speaker 2: your friends and coworkers in a braggy voice.

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Speaker 1: But they'll believe you because of your tone right and

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Speaker 1: your delivery. What we're telling you is it's all about

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Speaker 1: tone in in incantation.

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Speaker 2: It's all about incantations, and it's all about spells, and

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Speaker 2: it's about having short term jobs that you don't have

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Speaker 2: to go back and see the same people after like

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Speaker 2: two weeks because you've lied to them so much.

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Speaker 1: God, you meet one person in the in the eight

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Speaker 1: jobs you've had as a temp that's like you're the

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Speaker 1: best person you've.

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Speaker 2: Met, then they you will go on to marry that person,

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Speaker 2: right this is our guarantee to you. Look around the

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Speaker 2: office right now, is your eighth person, your future spouse

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Speaker 2: sitting near you? Pick them? You have fifteen seconds kick them,

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Speaker 2: pick them, kick them. I'd rather you kick them.

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Speaker 1: Kicking them is a great way to start the flirting.

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Speaker 2: If you take it from me, seven year old Karen Kilgariff,

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Speaker 2: A good shin kick is There's no better way.

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Speaker 1: To say I love you.

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Speaker 2: Karen has stuck with her flirting technique and she'll never

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Speaker 2: let it go.

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Speaker 1: And we like your tenacity. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it, like having a big butt is

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Speaker 2: gonna come into fashion.

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Speaker 1: I just have to wait it out.

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Speaker 2: There was a time where I thought no, kicking people

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Speaker 2: and shins would never come into fashion in terms of flirting, but.

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Speaker 1: So many things have. Kicking in the shin's going to

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Speaker 1: be the only way we let anyone know.

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Speaker 2: You to break through to say hey, you matter to me,

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Speaker 2: So prep yourself before you wreck your shins.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a really quick shout out to the

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Speaker 1: two ladies, please do the too fucking So. We just

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Speaker 1: finished our last weekend tour of twenty seventeen ye in

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Speaker 1: Saint Louis and Kansas City. It was a fucking amazing

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Speaker 1: fun weekend. Thanks you, guys, Thank you. We meet a

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Speaker 1: bunch of awesome people after the show at the meet

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Speaker 1: and greet, and everyone, like every fourth person comes up

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Speaker 1: in a shirt a homemade my favorite murder shirt that's

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Speaker 1: just funny and weird and shit that we don't remember

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Speaker 1: saying or is like something they drew with. It's always funny.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: There was two girls that had uh, stay sexy, don't

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Speaker 1: get murdered in wingedings?

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Speaker 2: Yes that I And I was like, do people oh no,

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Speaker 2: it was yeah SSDGM wing edings yes, And I was like,

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Speaker 2: does anyone is anyone able to read wing ings off

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Speaker 2: the dome and then know what that says?

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Speaker 1: And they were like not yet the best. That was great.

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Speaker 1: And then there were two other ladies and they had

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Speaker 1: shirts that just said promo code murder and I was

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Speaker 1: just like, you fucking subtle as fuck, badass bitches.

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Speaker 2: That is so hard, Like it never even crossed our

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Speaker 2: minds that that was like a funny thing.

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Speaker 1: The wing dings also included a bomb, yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: don't get I think a murdered must be bomb right, Well,

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Speaker 1: there was a bomb at the end, like the little

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Speaker 1: like cartoon.

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Speaker 2: Bomb, but I thought those things only represented the letter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, so it wouldn't be murdered.

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Speaker 2: But I just thought it was coincidental that a bomb

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Speaker 2: would be in there because it was s I think

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Speaker 2: it was the d was a bomb.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, something in there. It doesn't matter. It

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Speaker 1: was still great. It was the bomb. It was great

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Speaker 1: and great looking. It was the bomb. Also someone in

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Speaker 1: Kansas City.

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Speaker 2: By the time it got back to us, we got

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Speaker 2: so many nice presents and thanks to you guys, we

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Speaker 2: got tons of stuff. Backstage, there's a lot of people

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Speaker 2: that were worried, saying, we gave you something and then

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Speaker 2: they took it.

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Speaker 1: Away from us. The shit you guys bring the theater

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Speaker 1: is like, you cannot bring that in here.

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Speaker 2: You can't bring the severed head of Ted Bundy into

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Speaker 2: our theater.

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Speaker 1: Please don't. But it's actually a cake. Sorry you can't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we got a whole table full. It was

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Speaker 2: like Christmas backstage for us. Somebody made a plastic baggy

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Speaker 2: filled with the best chocolate chip cookies I've ever had.

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Speaker 2: I think there was either rice crispies or cornflakes in them,

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Speaker 2: so they were really small and crispy. Whoever did that,

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Speaker 2: God bless you. I ate maybe six of them just

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Speaker 2: standing there talking.

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Speaker 1: We got a full cheesecake. Oh my god, people went

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Speaker 1: crazy for that cheesecake. We got a haunted, scary clown.

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Speaker 1: The doll it's over there. Yeah. So these these lovely women,

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Speaker 1: these two women brought I don't know where the fuck

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Speaker 1: they must have found it, Like I think they set

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Speaker 1: a secondhand shop. Yeah, and they were like somehow they

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Speaker 1: sounded were like Karen and Georgia need this, Like what

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Speaker 1: does that say about us? It was like a raggedy

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Speaker 1: ann homemade clown doll from the seventies, knitted knitted that

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Speaker 1: like clearly whatever child got it was terrified of it

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Speaker 1: because it didn't look like it had been touched. No,

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Speaker 1: because one side of the clown's face, one side of

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Speaker 1: the clown was a happy clown. And then you turned

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Speaker 1: it over and we're going to post it, and it

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Speaker 1: was the most terrifying clown sad face you've ever seen, Yes,

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Speaker 1: with silver tears knitted onto the face. Steven, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to post it, okay. It is so upsetting.

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Speaker 2: And also the best part was the way the girl

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Speaker 2: this was in Saint Louis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The way the girl walked up, holy it or a woman? Sorry,

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Speaker 2: I always do that. She held it like she was

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Speaker 2: also a ghost like. She walked up really weird and

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Speaker 2: stiff and kind of like really slowly, like.

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Speaker 1: She had been looking forward to giving this to us

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Speaker 1: for two months and she was like, finally it's here.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was so good. Everything about the presentation, she

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Speaker 2: said to me. She goes turn it over. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then it was horror show. Yeah, so anyway you guys

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Speaker 2: will see it.

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Speaker 3: Steven, I was going to say, wing Dings, the bomb

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Speaker 3: is m.

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Speaker 1: Yep, all right, okay perfect? So am it just happens

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Speaker 1: to be a bomb. Look at that. It's so perfect

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Speaker 1: for us too. Wing Dings was made for us.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, wing dans ing things is like my

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Speaker 2: personal I didn't know I loved, like because I've loved

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Speaker 2: a lot of fonts m hm, mostly Times New Roman,

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Speaker 2: but wing Dings, you know, I only.

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Speaker 1: Use Georgia faon I know. But from here on out,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing my fucking bullet journal only in wing Dings

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Speaker 1: from now. Goodbye.

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Speaker 2: Oh it's so perfect, okay bye bye?

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Speaker 1: Uh oh what do you have?

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say a couple things about My Sweet Adrena,

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Speaker 2: because I was talking about it over the weekend with people.

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Speaker 1: At the live show care because I don't.

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Speaker 2: I really care so much, and I know that there

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Speaker 2: are people who like sped through reading it, and there

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Speaker 2: are people who responded of like I thought we were

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Speaker 2: going to do a when.

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Speaker 1: We were doing a thing and then we were like nope, goodbye,

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Speaker 1: Just like if you're not if this is episode ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: if you don't know that by now, yeah, flake Garu.

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Speaker 1: Except for I really do.

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Speaker 2: It's just taking me forever to read it because this book,

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Speaker 2: I've been taking it on two fronts, which is I

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Speaker 2: have the hard bound copy next to my bed like

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Speaker 2: an old widow, and then I eat out a box

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Speaker 2: of chocolates as I read it. And then I also

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Speaker 2: have the audio book, so I was listening to it

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Speaker 2: on the plane and I just would like to read.

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Speaker 1: A couples that makes me so happy.

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Speaker 2: Oh and also so many people have said, you have

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Speaker 2: to listen to teen Creeps because they have this great

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Speaker 2: episode on this, but I don't want to listen to

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Speaker 2: that until I'm done reading this book, so it doesn't

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Speaker 2: influence what I'm saying in any way sure, if that

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Speaker 2: makes sense. Okay, So I will definitely do that because

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Speaker 2: so many people have recommended it, even our own Steven.

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Speaker 1: They did an episode of uh what episode was it?

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Speaker 3: Like, Well, they've done my seater, Gina. But I was

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Speaker 3: just gonna say, I've been on the podcast twice and

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Speaker 3: it's been really fun.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Lindsay and Kelly are really sweet and they they I mean,

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Speaker 3: the fact that they read a book every week to

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Speaker 3: do this podcast is incredible.

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Speaker 1: What Oh, but it's it's mostly ya.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all like arl Stein and oh Christopher Pipe.

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Speaker 1: Still this shit's yeah. Still, that's two hundred pages. How

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Speaker 1: do they do it? Read me a thing? Okay, we

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Speaker 1: have to write a book. Report. They have to read

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Speaker 1: a book.

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Speaker 2: They have to read a book and talk about report

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Speaker 2: and report it.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So I'm now in the part where she meets no,

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Speaker 2: I don't have his name written here, old, boring old Audrina.

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Speaker 2: She we're boring old. Second best, nobody likes you, Adrina.

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Speaker 2: You're not the dead one, therefore you're not as good, Audrina.

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Speaker 1: Calm down.

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Speaker 2: A second best. Second place is first loser versus the worst.

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Speaker 2: Second is the worst or second is worserr. She goes

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Speaker 2: into the forest, which she's constantly forbidden to go into.

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Speaker 1: It's stupid.

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Speaker 2: We've told you by her family how many times she's nine.

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Speaker 2: A quick reminder for people, she's nine years old. Then

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Speaker 2: she goes into the forest. There's a home in the

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Speaker 2: forest where and of course I'm picturing it full on

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Speaker 2: gingerbread house. And in the house is a boy I

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Speaker 2: think his name is Auden, and then his mother lives

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Speaker 2: there too, And she hides behind a tree and watches

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Speaker 2: him break the yard. And in the book it's talking

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Speaker 2: about like how he has a hot ass, and shit,

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Speaker 2: he's twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: I swear to god, you see, Andrew.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think she's just laying out a lot

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Speaker 2: of like let's let's just break all these taboos.

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Speaker 1: Then she gets caught being in the woods peeping, being

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Speaker 1: a peeping hog. Yeah, a nine year old stalker.

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Speaker 2: And so her father comes storming in grabs her.

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Speaker 1: Every interaction with her.

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Speaker 2: And her father, I get so nervous it's going to

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Speaker 2: boil over into incest. Every time they talk or have

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Speaker 2: breakfast or whatever. There's so much inappropriate in like intensity. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but at one point he starts he says to her,

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Speaker 2: common people will will drain your specialness.

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Speaker 1: And I had to write it down.

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Speaker 2: Because she's saying he's saying, like, you're too good to

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Speaker 2: talk to those people in the woods.

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Speaker 1: Oh you Audrina, who were making you the creepiest, creeping

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Speaker 1: creep though, Yeah, don't talk to common people.

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Speaker 2: They're fucking yeah. She's like, take my specialness, please, I'm

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Speaker 2: so sick of this specialness. But she's she like, quick reminder,

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Speaker 2: she's a nine year old and her hair is all

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Speaker 2: colors and her eyes are all colored.

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Speaker 1: What the fuck was that?

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Speaker 2: It's it's like it's like she's a calico child and

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Speaker 2: that's part of her specialness. Oh. Also the description of

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Speaker 2: when Vera gets spanked by daddy. Oh yeah, and it's

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Speaker 2: down to like her ass burning through her thin underwear.

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Speaker 1: Like it gets into a detail where I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: this is I think we need to talk to VC Andrews.

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Speaker 1: We need available I don't know, we need to have

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Speaker 1: a little fucking quickie convo with her.

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Speaker 2: I mean, loo, look it really it just right, It

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Speaker 2: goes right up to the edge and then and then

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Speaker 2: scatters back.

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Speaker 1: And then kicks it. In the show.

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Speaker 2: Oh and then I said this at the show the

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Speaker 2: other night. But my favorite, I'm assuming it's a misprint.

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Speaker 2: It's she describes somebody, and I'm pretty sure it's cousin

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Speaker 2: Vera coming down the hall clumsily clumbering, which I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I'm almost positive clumbering isn't a word.

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Speaker 1: Clumbering makes so much sense, though it.

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Speaker 2: Makes more sense, but you can't if you're gonna say

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Speaker 2: clumbering and.

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Speaker 1: Not lumbering, I don't need clumsy as well.

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Speaker 2: Get clumsy out of there and get a different adjective

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Speaker 2: without the cl at the beginning, because now you're clumsily

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Speaker 2: clumbering is your borderline? Like Rod Dull, why don't you

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Speaker 2: just start singing a song opah opa style.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, stop tripping over your own fucking feet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, who Vera. Everyone should make fucking clumber it's

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Speaker 1: the girl. Okay. Speaking of books about children, I have

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Speaker 1: one to talk about. Okay, but this is a bad one.

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Speaker 1: I mean not this is a badder. This is a

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Speaker 1: real one. Okay. So last week we got in the

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Speaker 1: in r PO box a couple books from a woman

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Speaker 1: who lives in Ohio and gave us two like Ohio

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Speaker 1: true crime books. You took one and I kept the

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Speaker 1: other and started reading it, and I am halfway through

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Speaker 1: and not fucking obsessed with it, and it's so good.

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Speaker 1: This is a woman named Karen sent these to us,

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Speaker 1: and it's this one's called Amy My Search for Her Killer. Here,

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Speaker 1: I'll show it to you because she's this is a

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Speaker 1: true crime one. Her name's Amy Mahalovic. She's from a

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Speaker 1: Cleveland suburb and she disappeared on in October of nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine. And this dude, James Renner, who's the author,

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Speaker 1: who's like he like pitched it to his like newspaper

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Speaker 1: in town and he was working on and now this

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Speaker 1: whole book is written by him trying to find out

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Speaker 1: and going through fucking each suspect and talking to the

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Speaker 1: you know, the co the main investigator of the FBI

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Speaker 1: agent's the fucking family. And it's written so well. And

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Speaker 1: he inserts himself in the book in a way that

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Speaker 1: doesn't suck, because he was the same age as she

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Speaker 1: was when she disappeared in a town over and like

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Speaker 1: so it's part of him and the way that we

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Speaker 1: didn't understand, right, yeah, the way that we remember growing

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Speaker 1: up and seeing this person's face and how much it

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Speaker 1: meant to us, and it's it is such a fucking

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Speaker 1: good book, amazing, and I can't wait to finish it.

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Speaker 1: So it's a it's it's called Amy A Search for

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Speaker 1: My Search for Her Killer by James Renner, and I'm

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Speaker 1: totally obsessed with it.

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Speaker 2: And in case you can't find it because it looks pretty,

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Speaker 2: it's called It's a published by Gray and Company Publishers

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Speaker 2: www dot GRAYC dot com. G R E Y g

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Speaker 2: R sorry g R A Y. So if you can't

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Speaker 2: find it in normal ways, it's on GRAYC dot com.

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Speaker 1: It's written so well James Renner. You can, like you

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Speaker 1: can tell how much it means to him when he's

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Speaker 1: writing it, and it makes the book so heartfelt and

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Speaker 1: interesting and wonderful and I really love it. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's got a good face, he does. Yeah, you really

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Speaker 1: don't tell a lot of that. Yeah, dang girl. All

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Speaker 1: weekend I've been reading that good girl, I know, instead

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Speaker 1: of drinking, kind of like, I can't drink too much

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Speaker 1: because I want to read this book. King's James, you

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Speaker 1: fucking cured my alcohol is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, James, James, you should send him a

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Speaker 2: Starbucks card. Oh that, I swear to God that wasn't

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Speaker 2: an intentional segue.

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Speaker 1: But I would like to thank Live Nation. Yes, no, no, no.

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Speaker 2: I went to Starbucks the other night in Glendale because

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Speaker 2: just running errands, and it was the night before I

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Speaker 2: get so weird before we leave, when we travel and

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Speaker 2: I have to buy things that I want to make

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Speaker 2: sure are there when I get back, I get real

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Speaker 2: OCD weird.

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Speaker 1: Tell us you like, you're like black dress, I need

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Speaker 1: a black dress and all that.

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Speaker 2: No, nothing I actually need. I do things like I

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Speaker 2: need coffee, so I have coffee here when I.

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Speaker 1: Get back, like weird. No, I wonder what that means.

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Speaker 1: It's just like.

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Speaker 2: It's part of my not wanting to leave the house

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Speaker 2: in the first place. So I start telling myself, like

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Speaker 2: if I go, I won't be ready.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot. I have a real stocking problem. Huh.

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Speaker 1: But I went with Audrina is the second and worst shitty,

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Speaker 1: are creepiest and pepist. Audrina the creepiest, babiest stockist ever,

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Speaker 1: nine year old behind a rain tree with a twelve

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Speaker 1: year old. But Adrina, there's like a.

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Speaker 2: Whole picnic scene where I'm like nine year olds and

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Speaker 2: twelve year olds don't go on picnics.

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Speaker 1: Twelve year olds are one hundred years apart. Yes, nobody wants.

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Speaker 1: No twelve year old wants to talk to a nine

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Speaker 1: year old unless she has hair that's purple, gold, yellow, orange,

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Speaker 1: and red.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I went to the I went to the

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Speaker 2: the Starbucks closest to the designer shoe warehouse, and uh

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Speaker 2: and I went in and the only coffee they had

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Speaker 2: out were was Christmas Blend. So I asked the girl

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Speaker 2: behind the counter if they had Italian. That's my kind.

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Speaker 2: She says, hold on, I'll get my coworker to go

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Speaker 2: look for it. Are you fascist a little bit? Ok yeah,

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Speaker 2: I only I like Italy, just from like nineteen thirty

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Speaker 2: five to write around forty three.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough.

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Speaker 2: The girl comes out of the back holding like the

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Speaker 2: one bag of Italian, and when she the doors fly open.

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Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: And then I was like hey, I was like, that's

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Speaker 2: for me, and she's like, okay, I love your podcast.

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Speaker 2: And then that's my favorite reaction when people seem genuinely bummed,

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Speaker 2: like they don't want.

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Speaker 1: To say it, but they've already acted weird. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it was super cute.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, long story short, she didn't act weird that that

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Speaker 2: sounds just metal. She was very sweet and seemed happy

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Speaker 2: and surprised. And then she gave me a free pound

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Speaker 2: of coffee. And I was like, wait, hold on, I

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Speaker 2: don't want you to pay for my coffee. And then she's like, no,

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Speaker 2: we get a free pound every week.

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Speaker 1: It was like her pound she would have had at

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Speaker 1: home with her roommates.

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Speaker 2: That's right, I'd like to take that away from her, right,

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Speaker 2: So thank you too. Thank you to Mariah at the

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Speaker 2: Glendale Starbucks. You front and me your friends and family coffee,

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Speaker 2: as that's what she said.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, friends and fascist coffee. Thank you, Mariah. My Mussolini SIPs.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love Italians. I love the way

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Speaker 1: they make coffee. Did you come home from your trip

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Speaker 1: happy that you had coffee? Yes, pre ground already in

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Speaker 1: the thing.

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Speaker 2: Come on, because the mistake I always make is then

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Speaker 2: oh forget, I'll just get the whole bean at the

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Speaker 2: grocery store.

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Speaker 1: Now, no, no, never, terrible listen.

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Speaker 2: Creates Look, it creates garbage on your counter. Don't want that,

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00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:35,919
Speaker 2: can't have it.

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Speaker 1: Steven's got one. Stephen's pointing at a thing. Oh good, okay,

395
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Speaker 1: Stephen almost deleted this entire episode. The magic, the magic

396
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Speaker 1: that just happened.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't, I mean, you heard it? How could any

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00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 2: of that get recaptured? I love thinking of people who

399
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 2: start this podcast this late on, and the way we

400
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,719
Speaker 2: start this thing is like a word puzzle, like, who

401
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 2: the fuck would know what was going on?

402
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Speaker 1: Why are they talking about in my sweet Audrina and

403
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Speaker 1: kicking people in the shins? Oh it's the first time

404
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 1: of Hanukah. Oh yeah, a hanna Ka miracle happened today?

405
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 1: What was it? So? My think, my thing that I'm

406
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 1: looking I'm happy about this week. At the end of

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00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: the episode was going to be that my mom and

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Speaker 1: I are going to therapy on Thursday. She's coming with

409
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 1: me to therapy. Wow, we're gonna sit in therapy together

410
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: and work out why she's such a fucking stupid bitch.

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00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, no no no no. We're

412
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 1: gonna work some shit out and work it out because

413
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 1: we're fighting right now. I'm not speaking. But here's what happened.

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00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: I accidentally told her it was Tuesday, our therapy appointment,

415
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 1: so she called me. I was like, where the fuck

416
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Speaker 1: are you not? She was like, where are you? And

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00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: so I made her come meet Vince and I for

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Speaker 1: lunch and we work some shit out. Oh that's good.

419
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: Really well yeah, oh that's good. So everything's good. Now

420
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 1: are you still going to go? She can't she has

421
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 1: to work on Thursday. Yeah, so it's not it wouldn't

422
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 1: have happened, like it wouldn't have happened because I fucked

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Speaker 1: it up. But we talked and argued, and Vince being

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00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,400
Speaker 1: there made it really great because he's such a good

425
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: mediator and everything. So everything's fine. Now that's fine, everything's

426
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 1: you know, human, now are you?

427
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 2: But are you going to get her to go? Or

428
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 2: you think that that window is closed?

429
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: No, No, she'll come. She's been offering it for years

430
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 1: and I've always been like, that's fucking condescending. Fuck you

431
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 1: think that like coming to therapy and so you can

432
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: tell me what's wrong with you know I've been. But

433
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: does she go to therapy? Oh? Yeah, we all go

434
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: to therapy. Oh okay, everyone in my family goes to

435
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 1: fucking therapy. Got it. Yeah? So that was a hanic americle. Amazing.

436
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah that you got to do it out of the office, right, yeah.

437
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: That it's still we still were able to talk about

438
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 1: what happened. Her mean text me so thank you yahweh yes,

439
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: and the angel Gabriel uh huh and the first since

440
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: first and best Audrina.

441
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 2: That's all thank you, that's all her. She had white hair,

442
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: I believe white.

443
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was in fucking changey colory like a fucking

444
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: she was addlefish. Please elements, what's the little uh? Oh,

445
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: my god, Jesus, what's the one? Tiny Tim? It's a

446
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: happy Christmas? Everyone is that it is that? It no

447
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: like you.

448
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 2: You just revealed that you've been like a spy, a

449
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: Russian spy, deep deep state, Russian spy, scrooge, Happy Christmas.

450
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,159
Speaker 1: I said, it was a Honka miracle. Alvi fucking this

451
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: insane Siamese cat screamed, and then I said, it's a

452
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: happy Christmas everyone. Sorry. That just reminded me.

453
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 2: My favorite shirt of the weekend was the woman who

454
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: was wearing a shirt that said make Paul Onions Proud.

455
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 1: I almost lost my mind. I don't.

456
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: It's wine is with you people, It's the best best

457
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 2: people ever has best.

458
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: Who wants to go first? I went first at the

459
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 1: at the Insane City Show that'll never be posted. That

460
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite shows. So sometimes you guys

461
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: will have, well, like if we sell out a show

462
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: really really quickly, our amazing, wonderful tour agent Joe Schwartz

463
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 1: will be like you guys at a late show, and

464
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: we'll be like, okay, and then we're like, why did

465
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: we do that? It's it's really hard to do. It's

466
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: pretty hard the second show, and so we get on

467
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: there and we're fucking hopped up on diet coke and

468
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: fucking coffee and cocaine like many TwixT bars, and we

469
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: go up and it's fucking bananas and this one was

470
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: especially bananas.

471
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: I you say that yours was great, you saved it.

472
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, it just is like such a roll

473
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: of the dice were.

474
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 2: We're doing a thing that you probably should not do

475
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 2: for a lot show, which is we don't know what

476
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 2: the other person's going to talk about, which makes it

477
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: really fun and is the best part. But then like

478
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 2: on that one with mine, I felt like I was

479
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: in a car sliding on ice, like skidding into a

480
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 2: brick wall.

481
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: I went first last time, so I'll go first, okay,

482
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: and we're back. That's right, we're back. We are back

483
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: back in good old twenty twenty six, twenty six, thank you.

484
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, it's like.

485
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 2: Back then, we were on the road a lot, and

486
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 2: we were at the hardest version of us being on

487
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: the road, which was three cities a weekend, multiple cities

488
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: a weekend, yeah, vnce driving us in a mini van

489
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: from city to.

490
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: City to city. I think we knew we could say

491
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: no to anything. No. We kind of couldn't we kind of, yeah,

492
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: And I mean it paid off, Yes it did. We're

493
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: here today and we had a real good time. We

494
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: had a great time. I mean, we ate so many

495
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: egg bites from Starbucks that we neither of us can

496
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: eat them anymore.

497
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 2: The amount to bad eating I did while going. I

498
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: have to stop eating like this. But there was literally

499
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say literally, but almost no choice.

500
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: Because the nighttime menu for room service. But I'm not

501
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: complaining about room service. I will never complain about rooms.

502
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: We're so privileged.

503
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 2: And you could get chicken strips, mac and cheese and

504
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: the caesar salad and mac and cheese.

505
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's it, and that's it. We did that,

506
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: so we did it over and over again.

507
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: This is where we tried to start the My Sweet

508
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: Audrina book club and it doesn't work.

509
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: Oh, this is the first of our just many terrible

510
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: book clubs.

511
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,959
Speaker 2: Well, you know what's funny is like, we should have

512
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: a book club, but we can't figure out how to

513
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 2: do it in a way that would be effective as

514
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: a weekly podcast, because we're interesting. I certainly cannot read

515
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: a book, not only in a week, and I'd say

516
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: three months. I can't get that homework done.

517
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: I can listen to a book in three days. Yeah,

518
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 1: but then I've neglected everything else in my life.

519
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, except for like vacuuming or things you can do

520
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: while you're listening to.

521
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: A book my nails. Okay, So no real big update

522
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: on Amy Mahalovic's murder the book I read of James Renner's.

523
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: It remains unsolved as of today. Investigators have continued pursuing

524
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: new DNA and forensic genealogy testing in the case, and

525
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: James Renner, who's our friend now, has remained active in

526
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: the in true crime media and cold case advocacy work

527
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 1: through books, podcasts, and forensic genealogy work. Amazing. Yeah, love

528
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: his work.

529
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: We also almost deleted this episode famously, which is crazy

530
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: that I do that so easy, breezy. With the delivery

531
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: of these episodes.

532
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: To this day, the thought of I'm not recording still

533
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: gives me chills, like the thought of, like did I

534
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: hit record? Have we have done it? I think in COVID,

535
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: I did it one time. Yeah, I did it once,

536
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: and I think you've done it once.

537
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: I think for like full episodes where we get to

538
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: the end, we're like, ha ha ha, what a good

539
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: time we had.

540
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: We need to make promo code murder merch. We've never

541
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: done that. Oh, that's a really good idea. Thank you.

542
00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: I just came up with it. That's not true, it's

543
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: from it's.

544
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: It's from ten years ago. But we'll we're going to

545
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: do it now. Nicole and Vanessa. We would pull them

546
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: in and get this done.

547
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: It's not all me making our merch anymore. No, that's

548
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: right on. Fucking cut and paste from a cood. Murder

549
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: would be really Kat would be very hurt to hear

550
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: you say that. Okay, oh no, you de decorate it, Kat.

551
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: Then I have to like pick out the blanks and up.

552
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, you did it all, didn't You started

553
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: our merch economy. It's incredible. Thank god you did it.

554
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 2: You pulled my house out of foreclosure. You had to

555
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: do all those things, and then show me the piece

556
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: of paper that said here's how much we made this.

557
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: Week, handwritten scribbled. Yeah, okay, anything else? Oh? Oh oh oh?

558
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: This is the episode where we are given the haunted doll.

559
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Can we show pictures? You don't remember? Oh my god,

560
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: it's the doll with two faces? Can we see the

561
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: other side? Happy? Oh no, it's the scariest like homemade,

562
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: raggedy ann knitted.

563
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 2: This was given to us in twenty seventeen at our

564
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: Saint Louis stop. Okay, a legendary show, so we talk

565
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: about often. But somebody came backstage and was like, I

566
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: got this and on now you're going to have it.

567
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: And we kept it for as long as we could

568
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: and then you took it back out onto the road

569
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: and gave it away.

570
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: Am I right?

571
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: No?

572
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: You know what I think I did. Also, first of all,

573
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: this is the first gift or curse o.

574
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 2: Aka, And it's very clear what the answer said, no gifts.

575
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: I think we packed it into mail. I think we

576
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: were sending a listener something and we put it in

577
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: the box and sent it with it that's mean and

578
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: made them take it, made them have it. Who is

579
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: that person?

580
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:44,479
Speaker 2: Right us?

581
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: We're sorry. Are you still alive or did this doll

582
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: kill you? Yes? Jesus Christ, who has this doll?

583
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: We would love for you to reach out so we

584
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: can bring you back into the fold and talk about

585
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: how your life has either improved or fallen apart. So

586
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: we sent you this doll probably deprove. What if it

587
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: deproved terribly and it's all our fault.

588
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: Well, the point was that she had to then give

589
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: it to someone unwittingly, like it just has to go

590
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: on and on, like we got it unwittingly. She got

591
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: it unwittingly. There's a chain letter of a doll of

592
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: a haunted right. It's like a hot potato, but with

593
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: a terrifying doll. You know why.

594
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 2: It's the knitter someone's great aunt who put this thing

595
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: together decided that when they were going to do the

596
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: sad face, they were just going to do white yarn,

597
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: whereas the happy face has a nice flush to it.

598
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: And somehow that blew their eyes look like they're bleeding.

599
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of that's like a doll that

600
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: the person died in an ice storm. That's the feeling

601
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: I get.

602
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: The soul of the person who diagnized rooms in that doll.

603
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: It's it's so scary. All right, let's stop talking. Let's

604
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: get into caring. Story about Jennifer Pan.

605
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: Now this story, uh uh. Guy Brandham told me to

606
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: do this a while ago when we were doing shows

607
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: in Toronto, but I said no.

608
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: It's when he told me about it.

609
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,239
Speaker 2: I read it up a little bit and then I

610
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's too singular, it's too like, doesn't

611
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: have enough I don't know, bells and whistles or whatever.

612
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: Body and then body body. Yeah.

613
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: But then I read it and that's not the case,

614
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: and I knew it was a good story because for me,

615
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: it this story causes me more and more and more

616
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: anxiety as I read it. So I'll tell you about

617
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: this is this is the story of Jennifer Pan. Oh

618
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: you know this one, yes, okay, And I love it.

619
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: So I realized in reading these articles, what I found

620
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: was that the real like mother like the source of

621
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: this story that yeah, exactly, that you were regional yeast

622
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: doe of this story was from an article written by

623
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: a woman named Karen k Hoe, a name I'll remember

624
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. For I guess a

625
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: magazine called Toronto Life because this girl knew Jennifer Pan

626
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: and grew up with her, so was kind of giving

627
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: a different, like a different view of how of the

628
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: whole thing.

629
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: I feel like it's always different when the person who's

630
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: writing the story knows what the town was like where

631
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: they're from, you know what I mean, like, because it

632
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: can be like any fucking small town or suburb or

633
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: whatever when you know what it's like, Yeah, and what

634
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: the person what the high school is like, and what

635
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: the curriculum and what the person's expectations are. Yeah.

636
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: The context because context and this one, yes, and like

637
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 2: it's the family context, especially in this story, because this

638
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: is one of those stories about what they call the

639
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: dragon parents.

640
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: So there's tiger.

641
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: Moms are one thing, but then there's another term that

642
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: they were using in all these articles, and it was

643
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: dragging dragon parents or dragonfather.

644
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: So I think it's the ones that are way more intense.

645
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 2: It's not just like, it's the kind that are insanely

646
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: restrictive and insanely strict and tough with really high expectations,

647
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: where there's kind of you have no choice.

648
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: There's failure is not an option. Okay.

649
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: So on November eighth, twenty ten, at around nine thirty pm,

650
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 2: Jennifer Pan locked the front door of her family's home

651
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: in Markham, Ontario, which was a suburb outside of Toronto,

652
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 2: and went to bed. Shortly afterwards, three men entered her

653
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: home with guns. They ransacked the home. It was a

654
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: home invasion looking for money. They grabbed Jennifer's parents. Han

655
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: is her father and Bick is her mother. They took

656
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: them down into the basement. Basically, they had TV roomed

657
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: down in their basement. Brought them down in the basement.

658
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: They were demanding money. They looked all through the master bedroom.

659
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: They tore up the whole master bedroom to find money.

660
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: To kept demanding money. We're being invaded. Han, Jennifer's father,

661
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: told them that he had money in his wallet. He

662
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: was trying to think of other places that he could

663
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: give them money from. And they end up shooting Han

664
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: in the shoulder and then in the right eye, and

665
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 2: then as Vic Jennifer's mother is screaming, they shoot her

666
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: three times and kill her. Han survives getting shot in

667
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: the eye.

668
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: Dad, Yes, how does that happen? I don't know. It

669
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: broke his orbital bone.

670
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: The bullet and it grazed the vein that goes down

671
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: your throat.

672
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: I guess it's is it your jugular or one of

673
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: those you know, the vane the eye vein. It is

674
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: big here ducked.

675
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: It basically went through his eye, but then, like I think,

676
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: out the side and he survived. Upstairs, Jennifer, they tied

677
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: Jennifer to the staircase.

678
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: Staircase banisters. Thank you to the banister thing you stick

679
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 1: your head through and get stuck. How old is she again? Sixteen?

680
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: She no, at the time, she is twenty six. Okay,

681
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: oh wow, but she looks sixteen.

682
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: Okay.

683
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: She lives at home, Yes, she lives at home with

684
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: her very strict parents. So they tie her with shoelaces

685
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: to the banister and they shoot the parents and then

686
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: they all leave with whatever the cash that they've taken.

687
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: I think it's it ended up being like through around

688
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: three thousand dollars or something. Jennifer gets out of she

689
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: loosens out of the shoelaces. She calls nine one one.

690
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: She's freaking out. The cops arrive, Hank comes out of

691
00:33:59,480 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 2: the basement.

692
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: He's able to get up and walk outside.

693
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: A neighbor's the first one to find him, and he

694
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: gets loaded into an ambulance. Jennifer gets loaded into an ambulance.

695
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: She has a younger brother who is half an hour

696
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: away at college, and and they all get taken. She

697
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: gets met by crisis workers at the hospital. They tell

698
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 2: her her father's and surgery and that her mother is dead.

699
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: She's at the hospital for a really long time.

700
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: Eventually they realize that that there's not even wounds like

701
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: there theres aren't even red marks on her wrist from

702
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 2: those shoelaces, so she is uninjured and she ends up.

703
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: They take her. Once she's out of the hospital, they

704
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: take her back to the police.

705
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 2: Station and the detectives question her and basically just kind

706
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 2: of start asking her questions.

707
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: What happened? Just can you describe these people? They make

708
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: her go through it once.

709
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 2: Then they do another technique where they make her and

710
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 2: I got also got a lot of those from case

711
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 2: one of our favorite case file.

712
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: That's what that's the episode I listened to.

713
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 2: Of This's I mean, that guy just does such amazing research.

714
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: It's just so dramatic.

715
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, he was also pronouncing the mom's name Bica,

716
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: but I only ever saw it written that it was

717
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 2: pronounced bick, So I'm.

718
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and he's Australian. He's Australian.

719
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 2: I don't know what he's doing. He's doing something with

720
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: his voice, so anyway, okay. So basically she goes and

721
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: the cops are like, tell me the story your way, now,

722
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 2: tell it from above, like just and then see what

723
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: you can remember.

724
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: So like, it's so weird. Can you imagine having to

725
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: do that, Yeah, especially a traumatic event. Yeah, telling the

726
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: story over and over. It's like, as you see the

727
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: people acting it out, that's so weird. It's so crazy.

728
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: But then that second way does help her to remember,

729
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: and she's able to describe the guys better in more detail.

730
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: She remembers them, the names that they called each other, yea,

731
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 2: different things that they talked about with the money, whatever,

732
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: so it's a little bit effective. Then right before she leaves,

733
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: the guy says, oh, we need to check your phone

734
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: because if these guys met, we think you know, her

735
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: mom had just come home from line dancing class, so

736
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: they're like, well, maybe somebody followed her. More like it's

737
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: she was targeted somehow, So if it wasn't her, then

738
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: we want to see if it was you, if you

739
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 2: were being.

740
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: Targeted, so we need to know who you've been talking to.

741
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: And then in this interview, because on the case file

742
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: thing that he has all the interview tapes, so they

743
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: it starts with the nine to one one tape where

744
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: I was on the freeway did she listen on the

745
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 2: way over? And I grabbed that phone so fast? It

746
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 2: was just because she is freaking out into the phone,

747
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: and of course, you know, screaming, But then in the

748
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 2: police interview tapes, she's really she's crying, she's really upset.

749
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: And then at one point he says, you need to

750
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,479
Speaker 2: sign this thing so we can look into your phone,

751
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: and then she's like so, and all of a sudden,

752
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: she has a bunch of questions about how they're looking

753
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: into her phone and what that might mean, and he's

754
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: basically going, it's fine because if you're not lying to us,

755
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: it's just us looking at your phone. And then if

756
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: you are lying to us, we're going to find out

757
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: like who you've been talking to and if it's information

758
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: we need to know. And that's when like the temperature

759
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 2: changes a little bit, because up until that point she

760
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: was the victim. She was, you know, like the one

761
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: of two survivors of a terrible home invasion murder robbery,

762
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: so that, you know, it changes a tiny bit there.

763
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: And then they start looking into her past and the

764
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: people that she's been talking to, and it turns out

765
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: that Jennifer Pan might not be the person that she

766
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: has been presenting herself to be. Okay, So basically, her father,

767
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: Han had been a Tiger dad. Well, we'll start at

768
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: the beginning. They her parents were both born and raised

769
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: in Vietnam, and they moved to Canada's political refugees in

770
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, and they got married in Toronto, and

771
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: then they lived in Scarborough Neighborhood for a while, and

772
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: that's where they had Jennifer in nineteen eighty seven and

773
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: then her brother Felix in nineteen eighty nine. Scarborough Neighborhood

774
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 2: apparently was kind of rough at the time that they

775
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 2: lived there. They both Han and Bick worked at Magna

776
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: International car parts manufacturer.

777
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: And they worked really hard.

778
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: So by two thousand and four they'd saved enough money

779
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: to buy a large house, the two card.

780
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: Garage in Markham.

781
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: So Markham was a quiet suburb north of Toronto, predominantly

782
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,479
Speaker 2: Asian families and very it's just kind of like.

783
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: Where people went. It was really just quiet, low key.

784
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: And now bick Is driving Alexis Hans driving a Mercedes

785
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: like they're doing very well, and they have.

786
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: It's reported they had two hundred grand in the bank.

787
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: So they were totally dedicated to their kids and getting

788
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: their kids into cos, getting there, making their kids as successful,

789
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 2: you know Canadians as they can. So they didn't allow

790
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: Jennifer they had. Jennifer was playing piano from the age

791
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: of four. She won all these awards. She had like

792
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: a room full of awards for how good she wasn't

793
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 2: playing the piano. Then she got into ice skating when

794
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: she's a little older. When she was a little older,

795
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: and she did it every single day and she wanted

796
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 2: to go. She was like in training and she had

797
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: set her sights on being in the twenty ten Winter

798
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: Olympics in Vancouver. Then she tears a ligament in her

799
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: knee and basically that dream ends for her. When she

800
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: was graduating eighth grade, she thought she was going to

801
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 2: be the valedictorian and she basically found out she was

802
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 2: getting no academic awards, and she was not the valedictorian,

803
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: and that's like, all of a sudden, she was just like,

804
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm the point, I'm not who I'm supposed to be.

805
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: And she kind of she had been working her ass

806
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 2: off up to that point, so she wasn't she didn't

807
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: a mark, and she was shocked and couldn't believe it,

808
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 2: and that's totally unacceptable in her family. Like her family

809
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: was like, all A's all you do is like these

810
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: extracurricular activities We've chosen for you very specifically, and then

811
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 2: you're gonna be like, you're gonna get a four point

812
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: eight GPA essentially, So no, Jesus has to do the impossible, essentially.

813
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: So some nights in elementary school, she'd come home from

814
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: ice skating at ten, then do homework till midnight, and

815
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 2: then go to bed in elementary school, and in an

816
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 2: elementary school, she started cutting herself because the pressure was

817
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: so intense to be successful and all these different things

818
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: she was doing.

819
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: So she was doing little horizontal cuts on her forearms. Yeah.

820
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: So then once she went to mary Ward Catholic Secondary School,

821
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: ice skating was over for her. Started playing flute in

822
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 2: the school band, but every day after school. Her parents

823
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 2: were there to pick her up when when band practice

824
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: was over so she could go home and study. But

825
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: her grades, in for the way their family considered it,

826
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 2: were failing because she was only getting bees.

827
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: God, I would have paid for a read back then

828
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: with my cello, my shitty cello playing.

829
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't understand why I got any of

830
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 2: the grades I got because I never tried, and I

831
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: would get just a full variety from it, from A

832
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: to D.

833
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: Oh. It was just like, why try. Yeah, I don't

834
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 1: learn that early. It's very random. Yeah, why try? Why try?

835
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: Just have a good time.

836
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 2: So when she got her first bad, you know, all

837
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 2: bees report card freshman year, she took some old report cards,

838
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: some scissor, some glue, a photocopier, and she made herself

839
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: a brand new fake report card worth straight.

840
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: As all a's. Yep, that's how you get all a's.

841
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: And in her mind she said, universities don't consider marks

842
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 2: from grade nine Canadian grade nine in Canadian grade ten.

843
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: So she's in her mind it wasn't a big deal.

844
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: It didn't matter, and I'm sure she was thinking, I'm

845
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: buying myself a little time.

846
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: Here's these a's and.

847
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: I'll work back up to as and it'll all work out.

848
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 2: She was not allowed to have a boyfriend. She was

849
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 2: not allowed to go to dances. She was not allowed

850
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 2: to go to parties. She was not allowed to spend

851
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 2: the night at friends' houses. It was all about school

852
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: and getting her school work.

853
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: In the spring. All her hard work and dedication paid off.

854
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: She graduated from high school and won early acceptance to

855
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 2: Ryerson University in Toronto.

856
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: Her parents were happy.

857
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 2: They wanted her to go to the University of Toronto,

858
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: but Ryerson University was still great for them.

859
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: Here's the problem.

860
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 2: Jennifer Pan had early acceptance to Ryerson University, but then

861
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: that got canceled when she flunked out of calculus when

862
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: she was a senior, so she that early acceptance was rescented.

863
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: Now she's not in any college, so she starts doing

864
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: what many people do. You pretend you're going to college

865
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: every morning. Yeah, so this is like, yeah, now we're

866
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: into me when I live in Sacramento and I am

867
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: flunking out of college, but my parents don't know. So

868
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: I'm doing the thing where I go home for the

869
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 2: summer and every day get up and run to the mailbox,

870
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: like I'm a child excited for the mail, trying to

871
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: get the mail the report card before my.

872
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: Parents do because you can see it. No, you're not going.

873
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, my report card was like a point eight three

874
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: or something like I was only going to theater classes.

875
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you're literally going. It was insane.

876
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 2: No, So she's doing the same thing, but she's kind

877
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: of doing it in reverse. So she's saying she's going

878
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: to school, getting up every morning, taking the train, and

879
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 2: then just chilling out at cafes. She got a part

880
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: time job waitressing to pizza place, and she was hanging

881
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 2: out with her secret high school boyfriend, Daniel Wong.

882
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: Daniel Wong, So she had been dating.

883
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,919
Speaker 2: Daniel Wong since they went on a European in high

884
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: school bands they went on a trip to Europe, and

885
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 2: she had only been friends with up up until that point.

886
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: And she I think the story was that she had

887
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: an asthma attack in a smoke filled bar and.

888
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: Like thought that she was going to die because she

889
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: couldn't breathe, and Daniel came to her rescue.

890
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 2: And Daniel came to her rescue and like talked her down,

891
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 2: and then they.

892
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: Became secret lovever.

893
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was trying to hold my breath's sake and

894
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: finish that.

895
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: It was so amazing, but I couldn't parents. Oh my god, Daniel, they.

896
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 2: Were secret lovers, so that hadn't been going on. Also,

897
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: she had she'd had a bunch of plates spinning at once,

898
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 2: Jennifer pan, so sometimes she would go over to his house.

899
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: She finally convinced her parents that she needed to move

900
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 2: in with her friend Topaz, who lived close to college

901
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: and had an amazing name and had.

902
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: The best name. Was she a stripper? We'll never know,

903
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. That's what I'm.

904
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: Picturing in my head. Topaz in the apartment had the

905
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: poll to practice on.

906
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean, that's hard. Have you seen this is like

907
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: some crazy ab work.

908
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: Dude, that's like incredible dedication, strength, stamina, stamina. I just

909
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: fall asleep as I'm talking, so okay, So basically that

910
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 2: becomes part of it. She's also telling her father that

911
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: her grades are so good, she's getting like three thousand

912
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: dollars tuition scholarships. So she it just lies upon lies

913
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 2: online so because it's better than having to tell your

914
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: parents that you're just like a normal human being, right,

915
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: which made me so sad.

916
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: It's just just to be like, I'm just average. We

917
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: want it. Just to enjoy my life as a normal

918
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: human is not acceptable.

919
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 2: Right, And there is apparently there's a couple of times

920
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: in this article that bick her mom would be like,

921
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: let her be herself or she's okay as she is,

922
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: and tried to like take the heat off a little bit,

923
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 2: but she was also Jennifer's the oldest. Yeah, and there's

924
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 2: just so you know, there was so much pressure. It's

925
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 2: that it's it's the same kind of pressure in like

926
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: I will I can equate it in the way of

927
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: like in our family Irish immigrants, like they call them

928
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 2: lace lace curtain Irish where they make sure everything looks

929
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 2: really good because they think everybody thinks they're a scomebag.

930
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 2: So they're like, here's our beautiful lace, Like how well

931
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: we're doing. Everything's ironed and everyone we have nine kids,

932
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: but everyone's clothes are perfectly ironed.

933
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: Because well, it's a thing of like immigrant parents, where

934
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: it's like I didn't fucking I didn't go through what

935
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: I went through. For you to work in an office

936
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: like a boring office or in a pizza place, or

937
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: as you know, even as an exotic dancer, like, which

938
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: is all acceptable fucking job. It's what everybody does that's

939
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: not will not accept it. I didn't come here from

940
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: Vietnam to fucking raise a child. To not be a superstar,

941
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: you have to have like your own law firm.

942
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: You have to Yeah, you have to do everything perfectly

943
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 2: and never trip once, which is not only impossible, yeah,

944
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: but also that's not how you get good at things.

945
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: Thank god. My parents had no expectations whatsoever, aside from

946
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: I mean, aside from nothing. My parents, my.

947
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: Dad used to love to tell the story that they

948
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 2: used to bring home their report cards to my grandpa,

949
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 2: who they said, des ands and des and f's meant

950
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 2: doing fine, And he didn't.

951
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: He dropped out of school when he was a kid.

952
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: He was like doing good, everybody Jesus correct.

953
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,919
Speaker 2: And they all became civil servants and plumbers and things

954
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: that you know, and that back then you could make

955
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 2: money by doing that. It's not like that anymore anyway.

956
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, going no, no, no, no, but there it's

957
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: just funny how there there there are these pressures.

958
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: In some way.

959
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: It's like in some culture it's academic pressure. In some cultures,

960
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: it's like you have to.

961
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: Get married and have a family immediately. Pressure. It just

962
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: depends but or being used to be religious.

963
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, stay in the click totally, stay in the

964
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: fam totally.

965
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 1: Okay.

966
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,959
Speaker 2: So Jennifer is she's under the gun and now she's

967
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 2: twenty two years old, and she has been lying to

968
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: her parents consistently since like eighth grade essentially, and being

969
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 2: having like a double life, which is kind of amazing.

970
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: She's but she's never gone to a party, she's never

971
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 2: gone to a club, she's never gotten drunk, and her

972
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 2: one relationship is her secret relationship with Daniel Wong.

973
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: So basically, she then.

974
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 2: Tells them that she it was her father's dream for

975
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 2: her to go to pharmacology school and become a pharmacist.

976
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: So she's like, guess what, everybody I got accepted? Like

977
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: she just makes a thing up.

978
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, she she lies.

979
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: She tells them that she got in. They're thrilled she hadn't.

980
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: But she starts buying used books and bringing home like

981
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 2: pharmacology books and when she would leave for school every day.

982
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: It's stressing you out, in Stephen.

983
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: It just reminds me of the woman who did that

984
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 3: for Stamford and pretend to be in Stamford for like

985
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 3: two years, same thing.

986
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,439
Speaker 2: Because her family thought she had so she lived in

987
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 2: like Pollowen.

988
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 3: She would and she would like sleep in like if

989
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 3: a door, like if a dorm, like a roommate dropped out,

990
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 3: she'd be like, oh, I'm the new roommate, and she

991
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: would sleep in people's dorms and stuff, pretending that she

992
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: was a student, faking her grades all the same stuff.

993
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

994
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they kind of should get an honorary doctorate for

995
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 2: getting away with it, for like faking it for sore

996
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 2: tend to be successful. You're saying you have so much

997
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: further to fall, Yes, And also it's take that take

998
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: that initial hit of like I fucked up.

999
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: Let the chips fall. They can only yell for so long. Yeah,

1000
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: and take the and take the initiative to lie and

1001
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: use that towards something better, you know what I mean.

1002
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: Like you're a really good liar, Like go get a

1003
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: job somewhere cool, right and build yourself up to management.

1004
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: Take that lie your way to manage it.

1005
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: But just like you clearly are not stupid if you're

1006
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 2: able to fucking trick all these people for two years,

1007
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 2: get into sales get into fucking sell houses, sell houses,

1008
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 2: sell mobile phones on Hollywood Boulevard, right out on the

1009
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 2: sidewalk right.

1010
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: Pharmaceuticals start right around the corner on the hour. Oh

1011
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: my dad sold fucking gin soon ives at a fucking

1012
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: hallmart Oh, yes, do it. Those things can cut a

1013
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: coke can and he showed you how at a Walmart.

1014
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: My day, Marty, go ahead.

1015
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 2: So she instead goes for it in a major way.

1016
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: She majors in line and tells her that she's going

1017
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: to pharmacology school, which I just can't. It's almost like

1018
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: she's not even lying and going like I you know what,

1019
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: I got a job in California, I'll see you or anything.

1020
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: She's not busting out. She's just like continuing to try

1021
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: to make it.

1022
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: Work, like I still have to live here.

1023
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have to make these people happy and

1024
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how, So I'm just going to do

1025
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: it the way they demand. So she's buying fake textbooks,

1026
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: and not fake textbooks, use textbooks like oh the old Pharmacology,

1027
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 2: And then she's going to the library and watching videos

1028
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 2: and reading books on it and taking notes so that

1029
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 2: when she goes home she has dreams of notes, so

1030
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 2: it looks like she's really doing work.

1031
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: She could have actually been going to school this whole

1032
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: time doing that probably if she wasn't to be students,

1033
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: she could have That was rude.

1034
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: So so then she asked, she asked if she can

1035
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: stay at Topaz's house during the week, because it's a

1036
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: way better commute.

1037
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: Her mom's like.

1038
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: Super empathetic and like, let's let her, it'll be so

1039
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: much better. Well, she's, of course not staying at Topaz's house.

1040
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 2: She's staying at Daniel Wong's house. Danny his parents. She

1041
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: was lying to his parents and saying it was okay

1042
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 2: with her parents, she was staying at their house. And

1043
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: then so basically there was no one she wasn't lying

1044
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: to except Daniel Wall. So basically, when it was theoretically

1045
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: time for her to graduate from the University of Toronto

1046
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 2: pharmacology program, they Daniel and helped her find someone online

1047
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: to create a fake transcript with all a's in it.

1048
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: And then she.

1049
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 2: Told her parents when it was the graduation ceremony that

1050
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: it was an extra large class and all there weren't

1051
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 2: enough seats. All the students only got one ticket, and

1052
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 2: she'd already given it to a friend because she didn't

1053
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 2: think one parent would want to go without the other parent. Yeah,

1054
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: I think that's when it might have started to stink

1055
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: a little bit to the parents. But then when Jennifer

1056
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: told them that she was volunteering at Toronto's prestigious hospital

1057
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 2: for sick children, they noticed that she didn't have any ID,

1058
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: no uniform, there was nothing.

1059
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 1: To prove that she she officially worked there.

1060
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 2: So one day, Han they drop her off or they

1061
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 2: insist upon driving her to work, and so then she

1062
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 2: gets out a car and runs into the hospital and

1063
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 2: then Han tells Bick go in after her and.

1064
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: Follow her in.

1065
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 2: So she ends up going and running and like hiding

1066
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: for hours in the emergency room or in the waiting room,

1067
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: and basically Bick comes back out and like doesn't find her,

1068
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: and basically she waits them out until they leave. And

1069
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: then early the next morning they called Topaz to say, hey,

1070
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: we need to talk to Jennifer, and Topaz who just

1071
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 2: wakes up as like she's.

1072
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: Not here, Yeah, isn't in on it.

1073
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 2: It doesn't know what's going on. And basically they find

1074
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 2: out that Jennifer was at Daniel's house and the whole

1075
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 2: lie comes down, So basically she has to confess she

1076
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: never volunteered at the Hospital for Sick Children. She didn't,

1077
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: she wasn't in the pharmacology program, and that she had

1078
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 2: been saying at Daniel's house. She actually didn't mention that

1079
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 2: she had never graduated from high school and that her

1080
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 2: time at Ryerson University was faked. So she didn't admit

1081
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: to any of that. She only she got out what

1082
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: she could. Of course, Han lost his fucking shit. The

1083
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 2: dad went crazy. Bick had to convince him to let

1084
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 2: her remain in the house, and they basically said, it's him,

1085
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 2: it's Daniel Wannger, it's us, and if you go with.

1086
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: Him, you can never come back to this house again.

1087
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 2: So then she basically had to break up with Daniel

1088
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 2: Wong because she didn't know where to go or what

1089
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: to do.

1090
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 1: So and they take away her cell.

1091
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 2: Phone and her laptop for two weeks, and then after

1092
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 2: that they tell her we're going to check your messages anytime.

1093
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: We want to make sure you're not interacting with him.

1094
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 2: She's an adult now, she's like twenty five. Oh my god,

1095
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: so she's yeah, it's.

1096
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: Not it's crazy.

1097
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 2: So she finishes up just that she takes a calculus class,

1098
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: finish gets her high school like ged or whatever. She

1099
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: so basically her parents encourage her to apply for college

1100
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 2: for real. She makes money as being a piano teacher

1101
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 2: part time and basically she can't go anywhere except for

1102
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 2: university or piano lessons.

1103
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: So she's twenty four. I said that.

1104
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: So when she breaks up with Daniel this time, says,

1105
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 2: I can't see you anymore because I'll get kicked out forever.

1106
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 2: He's like, I find like I can't take it anymore anyway,

1107
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: He starts dating somebody else and they fall in love.

1108
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, And of course Jennifer doesn't handle it well.

1109
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 2: She falls into a deep depression. She attempts suicide, and

1110
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: at one point she tells Daniel that some men had

1111
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: home invaded their house and had gang raped her. And

1112
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 2: then she tells him that his new girlfriend mailed a

1113
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 2: bullet to her as a as a.

1114
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: Warning to stay away.

1115
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: But she basically insinuated that the new girlfriend this was

1116
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: all her plan, yeah, to attack Jennifer. So somehow that

1117
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 2: story works okay because they end up getting back together.

1118
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: Well, she a really good liar at this point.

1119
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: I think she must be in the like that nine

1120
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: one one call is so believable. I would have never

1121
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: doubted her, and I'm sure in a way she was

1122
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 2: really I mean her parents were just attacked, right, So

1123
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 2: I don't think she's a completely cold like sociopath or psychopath.

1124
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: But but she's been lying for fucking fifteen years. She

1125
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: has to be good at it and used to it,

1126
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: and it's a normal It's not keeping her up at night, Yeah,

1127
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: it's not. And it's like it's like a normal way

1128
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: to live your life is to start by trying to

1129
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 1: lie about something.

1130
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that like if you're if you're not getting what

1131
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 2: you want, get that manipulation going, because you can't ever

1132
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 2: get anything kind.

1133
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: Of the direct what default is to tell some tell

1134
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 1: a person what they want to hear.

1135
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 2: Yes or like, or really play a huge card so

1136
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 2: that people go like holy shit, stop everything.

1137
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: Why would why? Yeah? Exactly.

1138
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: So basically Daniel and Daniel himself is a bit of

1139
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 2: a he's he has been kicked out of schools. He

1140
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: he's a little you know, he got caught dealing pot

1141
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: when he went to that Catholic school that they went

1142
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 2: to together.

1143
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: He's a little you know, living on the edge, a

1144
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 1: little bit himself.

1145
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 2: So when they get back together, basically together, they figure

1146
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 2: out that her parents' life insurance policies would pay out

1147
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 2: half a million dollars and that she's the beneficiary, and

1148
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 2: so Daniel starts helping her make a plan to have

1149
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 2: them killed. Buck yes, so he says that he knows

1150
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 2: a guy named Lenford Crawford, the worst name of all time,

1151
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: a borderline V c Andrews name, Lenford Crawford.

1152
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: Daniel calls him homeboy. Uh.

1153
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 2: They start setting up a thing where like she can,

1154
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 2: she has a separate SIM card and iPhone so she

1155
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 2: can talk to him and make this plan. Nobody finds out,

1156
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 2: and basically the plan is, when you're done, like watching

1157
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 2: TV for the night, unlock the front door. So she

1158
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 2: so she actually left the front door unlock. Then she

1159
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: went upstairs to her room. She flicked the lights in

1160
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 2: the study to give them the signal that it was time.

1161
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 2: Her mom had come home from line dancing, was watching TV.

1162
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: Her dad was watching the news in a different room,

1163
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 2: and basically these men came in and the men that

1164
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 2: home invaded and basically attempted to kill her father and

1165
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 2: killed her mother. It was all her doing and completely

1166
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: her setup.

1167
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1168
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, which, you know, it felt like we were

1169
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 2: getting to that.

1170
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: It's not the biggest reveal man world, but it's so sad, it's.

1171
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 2: So fucking crazy and over the top. And then basically

1172
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: the third time they bring her, so the cops the

1173
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 2: first time they think they're just getting the story from

1174
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 2: her the first interview. The second interview, they're kind of like,

1175
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 2: let's talk about this again and.

1176
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: Go over to detailing app almost yeah.

1177
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 2: And it's always, you know, it's like the family is what's.

1178
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: Looked at first. Always, Thus the dad was supposed to die? Yeah, right, yes,

1179
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: so the dad was supposed to die. Was the mom

1180
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 1: supposed to die? Yes? They both were, Okay, yeah, okay.

1181
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 2: So essentially the third time they they interrogate her and

1182
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: they use something I think it was called I didn't

1183
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 2: I didn't write it here, but basically a guy named

1184
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 2: Jeremy Grimaldi is a journalist. In twenty sixteen, he published

1185
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: a true crime book about Jennifer called A Daughter's Deadly

1186
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: Deception The Jennifer Pants Story, and in that he talks

1187
00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 2: about they used this interrogation technique that might not and

1188
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 2: have been above board, where they basically trick you into

1189
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: trusting them, and then waterboard and then like it's almost

1190
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 2: like one guy is good cop and bad cop, oh

1191
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 2: waterboard you.

1192
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: And then they just waterboard you. Wait, so the guy

1193
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: is like, you trust me, you trust me to trust me.

1194
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: Now I'm angry, and you need to make me not

1195
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: angry anymore because i'm your friend.

1196
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 2: Yes, Like they lull her into a sense of kind

1197
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 2: of like she's being talked to, like, yes, you're a

1198
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 2: victim too, and I bet it was really hard.

1199
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: Your dad was really.

1200
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: Mean and strict and whatever, and then just boom and

1201
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 2: they like it's like that kind of shock and aw thing.

1202
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 2: I didn't read the whole thing of but you can

1203
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 2: read this book where it talks all about that how

1204
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 2: that interview might not have been totally fair.

1205
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 1: Oops. But at the end of the day, she is.

1206
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 2: The person who hired those people, and essentially at the trial,

1207
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 2: her own father took the stand and told the story

1208
01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: of what happened. That was March nineteenth, twenty fourteen. He based,

1209
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 2: they had to get up on the stand and tell

1210
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 2: everybody how these men came in and he survived. When

1211
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 2: he woke up after getting shot into the eye, he

1212
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 2: woke up to his dead wife laying there next to him,

1213
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 2: and then got out of the house thinking that everyone

1214
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 2: had been killed.

1215
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, where is my daughter? Is she okay?

1216
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1217
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: Worried about her too, probably of.

1218
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 2: Course, and then slowly finds out that she's the one

1219
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: behind it.

1220
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: Horrible. So after ten months of this trial, Jennifer.

1221
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: Pan, Daniel Wong, homeboy, homeboy, Lenford Crawford, and uh, this

1222
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: guy's name was David milvaganam man. There's a bunch of

1223
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: mil vgana maam mil veganman. They all got uh, they

1224
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 2: were all convicted for murder and attempted murder and each

1225
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 2: received a life sentence with no chance of parol for

1226
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: twenty five years. And then the third guy, Eric Cardy,

1227
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 2: who is the one that tied her to the banister,

1228
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 2: He's tried separately.

1229
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: So there's Yeah.

1230
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: So basically read Karen Kahoe's article in Toronto Life magazine,

1231
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: Jennifer Pan's Revenge, The inside story of a Golden Child,

1232
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 2: the killers she hired and the parents she wanted dead.

1233
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: That's the article you're gonna want.

1234
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 2: To really get into because there are pieces of this

1235
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 2: article and every other article like, yeah, that's what everyone's

1236
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: basing it on. Karen k You'll never understand unless you

1237
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,439
Speaker 2: have like been raised in a family like that.

1238
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's crazy.

1239
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 2: It's like so strict, but then there's people that have

1240
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 2: had terrible parents.

1241
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: They don't have their parents killed. It's just that weird.

1242
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 2: Turn of like, yeah, it just stresses me out so bad.

1243
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 2: It's like I've done that exact thing where you're like, Okay,

1244
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 2: that fucked up. Now I'm going to make up a

1245
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 2: new thing that's going to get fucked up, and I'm

1246
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 2: gonna do that dumb thing and like the more complicated

1247
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 2: you make it, the more the worse you're making.

1248
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: It for yourself. Yeah, for sure, that's a good one.

1249
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: On dude, it's crazy.

1250
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 2: Job.

1251
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: Thanks, that's that was Banana's. Yeah, Vince had a friend.

1252
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: She was a comedian from Michigan and they went to

1253
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: New York and her name was Juwan and she came

1254
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: from that kind of family where she had been lying

1255
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: to her family. They all thought she was going to

1256
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: school to be a dentist and she was actually a

1257
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: comedian and didn't tell any of them, and then out

1258
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: of nowhere, she fucking jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge. Yeah,

1259
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: and killed herself. I remember hearing about that. It's just

1260
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: so sad, like she just couldn't tell them that she

1261
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: was doing what she actually wanted to do in life. Yeah,

1262
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: it's horrible. It's just like such a sad thing to me.

1263
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. And I bet so sad for the family.

1264
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're applying pressure and just the right

1265
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 2: way to or or whatever. They're doing what they know, right,

1266
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 2: and I'm sure never in a million years is that

1267
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: the result they're looking for.

1268
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: I'd rather have their daughter as a comedian that you know,

1269
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: and not what they wanted her to be, then what

1270
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 1: they wanted her to be. And so slid right of course,

1271
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: always made me so sad, even though I didn't know her.

1272
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: It's so tragic.

1273
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember a lot of I mean a lot

1274
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 2: of people I know knew her, and yeah, it was

1275
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 2: they're really upset about it.

1276
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, we're back, Karen. You have updates, Yes I do.

1277
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four, Netflix released a documentary called What

1278
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 2: Jennifer Did About This Case. It includes interviews with police

1279
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 2: officers and people who were in Jennifer's life, and footage

1280
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: from her police interviews. In twenty twenty three, the Ontario

1281
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 2: Court of Appeals overturned the first degree murder convictions in

1282
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 2: the killing and ruled the original trial judge didn't allow

1283
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: the jury to consider whether Han was the only intended

1284
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 2: target of the murders.

1285
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: Wow.

1286
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 2: Then in April twenty twenty five, the Supreme Court ruled

1287
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 2: that there should be new first degree murder trials for

1288
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 2: all four people accused in this case, but affirmed the

1289
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 2: convictions of attempted murder. Jennifer then pled guilty to manslaughter

1290
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 2: in her mother's death in March of twenty twenty six,

1291
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 2: So just a couple of months ago. I mean, it's

1292
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 2: just been ongoing and she got a life sentence, but

1293
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 2: now she's eligible for parole because she's already it's time served.

1294
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 2: And then Lenford Crawford is the only one who's been

1295
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 2: convicted to apply for parole. He was denied last year.

1296
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 2: Eric Cardy, who has tried separately from everybody else, was

1297
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 2: sentenced to eighteen years in prison, although he did die

1298
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 2: in prison under mysterious circumstances. And then Kate Winkler Dawson

1299
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 2: actually did an episode of Wicked Words from August ninth,

1300
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one about this called Karen k Hoe Jennifer

1301
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 2: Pan's Revenge, where Kate interviewed Karen kay Hoe, the woman

1302
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 2: who grew up with Jennifer Pan and wrote the article

1303
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 2: for The Toronto Life.

1304
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: About this case.

1305
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 2: So if you want to go listen to Kate Winkler Dawson,

1306
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 2: who's a great interview. You were talked to Karen Kahoe

1307
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 2: about this, you can go listen to that.

1308
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: Wow, amazing.

1309
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now it's time to get into Georgia's story

1310
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 2: from this episode about the murder of Irene Garza.

1311
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, here's my turn. This is a timely story

1312
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: because it's a cult case that finally, hopefully this is

1313
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: the end came last week. Huh. But this is a

1314
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 1: story that I've been interested in. It's at one of

1315
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 1: the forty eight hours. You know, we've all watched it.

1316
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: It's really interesting. Texas Monthly. I got a lot of

1317
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: this information from the Texas Monthly, which we love Texas Monthly.

1318
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: The best article called Unholy Act by Pamela Coloff co

1319
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: l l o Ff. This is the story of fucking

1320
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 1: priest John Fight. Oh, a murder of Irene Garza.

1321
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know, oh honey, oh shit, fucking buckle

1322
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 2: the fuck up. Buckle down, baby, settle in, Buckle up.

1323
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 2: Hit your foot on the coffee table, the coffee tables.

1324
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: Kick the coffee table like you have a crush on it. Okay,

1325
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: here we go, okay. So Irene Garza is born in

1326
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four. She's this dark haired Hispanic beauty from McAllen, Texas.

1327
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 1: It's an agricultural agricultur real nope area, agricultural agricultural area

1328
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: south of Texas in the Rio Grande Valley, five miles

1329
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,440
Speaker 1: from the US Mexico border. In high school, Irene had

1330
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: been crowned Miss All South Texas Sweetheart shit and McAllen

1331
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: High School where you know everyone's fucking white. Back then

1332
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: she had been the first Hispanic twirler and head drum

1333
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: Majorrette Wow. So she was like fucking bust down borders.

1334
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: She's this beautiful beauty queen, but she's Hispanic. So it's

1335
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: you know, a sense of pride, that's it's you know,

1336
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: she's she's sting down borders. Yes she's not. I mean Texas.

1337
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: That's like bit blonde, big teeth, blue wise that's like

1338
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: usually what you're going to get out of a Texas

1339
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:21,919
Speaker 2: beauty queen.

1340
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: Right, and she is you know, she's not that. And

1341
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 1: she's the first in her family to graduate from college,

1342
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 1: which is a super big deal, huge accomplishment. So, at

1343
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 1: twenty five years old, she worked as a teacher for

1344
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: disadvantaged children, which she took a great pride in. Some

1345
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:40,640
Speaker 1: of her students were so poor and came from the

1346
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: neighborhood where she had come from and had been able

1347
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: to get out of that they came to school barefoot,

1348
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: and Irene spent her first paycheck on buying those children

1349
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 1: clothes and books.

1350
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it happens to this very day, right, even

1351
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:56,959
Speaker 2: worse than exactly.

1352
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: So she's this really big hearted, kind person. She is gorgeous,

1353
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 1: which isn't a reason why she shouldn't be a victim,

1354
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: But there's just this warmth coming from her. And you know,

1355
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: she had a huge future that that she earned. That's

1356
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:16,560
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yeah, listen, look, look and listen. Stop it.

1357
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 1: At the center of her life, though, is her devout

1358
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: Catholic faith. That's like her fucking thing. On April sixteenth,

1359
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, the day before fucking Easter Sunday, oh Okay, Saturday, Easter.

1360
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: Saturday called a thing. It's like, chill out Saturday. Don't

1361
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: sound like dog. It is palm. I don't know. Chill

1362
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: the fuck out Saturday for Easter.

1363
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:50,759
Speaker 2: Well, go ahead, Well, good Friday, Good Friday.

1364
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: Good Friday.

1365
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 2: Is when he went up on that cross. Okay, it

1366
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 2: might be the ascension.

1367
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. He chilled out on Saturday.

1368
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 2: He got rolled on up and then that tomb. Yeah,

1369
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 2: and then he was reisen on Sunday.

1370
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Saturday he just hung out. Well, Saturday was

1371
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 1: all up in that tomb. Yeah. People thinking he's dead,

1372
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: it's over, and he was like, you know what, I'm

1373
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 1: gonna hut Okay, I'm not gonna get sack religious here

1374
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: we already. Yeah, it's real mad at me.

1375
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 2: It's so sad because I've had this shit drummed into

1376
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 2: my head. But then of course, well it would be impressive.

1377
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 2: I can't pull it out.

1378
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and today's the first time of Hannakha.

1379
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 1: We rebelled again against it because we hated it so much.

1380
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 1: So everyone was drumed in her head. We're like, fuck you,

1381
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 1: I'm not remembering this. Yeah, and now we just don't

1382
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: know thing now. Just the guilt remains.

1383
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 2: The guilt and the uh ignorance and the really good songs.

1384
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got a bunch of those pieces flowing

1385
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 1: like a river. Anytime you want me to sing it too,

1386
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: I will. Okay, okay, but reha ta, let's fucking do

1387
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: this man a prayer? Okay, okay. So on April sixteenth,

1388
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: fucking lazy Saturday, nineteen sixty, Irene Burrows. She's twenty five.

1389
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 1: She borrows her family car to drive to their church,

1390
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:06,440
Speaker 1: Sacred Heart Church, where she plans to go to confession.

1391
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,640
Speaker 1: She leaves around six point thirty that evening. She's like,

1392
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: mom will be back, and a bunch of witnesses see

1393
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 1: her get to church. Everyone's in line for confession. She

1394
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: gets in line as well, but no one sees her

1395
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 1: leave that church that day. She never came home that night,

1396
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 1: and the next morning, Easter Sunday. That's right, as you know,

1397
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 1: he is truly risen. He rises and her car is

1398
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 1: still parked down the street from Sacred Heart. The first

1399
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: clue comes two days later, when one of Irene's high

1400
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: heeled shoes is spotted by the side of the road

1401
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 1: and three hundred yards from there was her purse. It

1402
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: looks as if someone had like thrown it out the

1403
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: window of a passing car. There's no fingerprints on it.

1404
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 1: It's crazy. Huge search ensues, including they dragged irrigation canals.

1405
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: They go house to house through the town. Border patrol

1406
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 1: planes go fucking circling. Sixty five National garns are called

1407
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: out to assist what became at the time the most

1408
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 1: extensive investigation in valley history. Wow. But it's not till

1409
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 1: four days later after she disappeared that Irene's body is

1410
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 1: found floating in a nearby irrigation canal. She's fully dressed

1411
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: except for her shoes and underwear are missing. The right

1412
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 1: side of her face is badly bruised. She had two

1413
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: black eyes, and the autopsy reveals that she had been

1414
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: beaten with a hard object and suffocated. The state of

1415
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: decomposition suggests that she'd been dead for fewer than four days,

1416
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 1: So maybe she had been kept somewhere for a day

1417
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:44,599
Speaker 1: or so and she had been raped while and conscious. Yeah,

1418
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:48,560
Speaker 1: the local newspapers go fucking nuts with rumors and speculation.

1419
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: Everyone is like being fucking targeted or fingered, including this

1420
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: prominent local citizen who had died of a heart attack

1421
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:00,680
Speaker 1: days after she'd disappeared, you know, or that had been transience,

1422
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 1: or someone had crush on her because she was so beautiful,

1423
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: but she was also you know, not she was dating

1424
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 1: but not you know, she was Catholic, you know what

1425
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: I mean. Sure, detectives question more than five hundred people

1426
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: in the weeks following the murder, But behind the scenes, detectives,

1427
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: they don't talk about this in public, and the newspapers

1428
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 1: don't really talk about this. They are focusing on a

1429
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 1: twenty seven year old priest named.

1430
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 2: John Fight what yeah, a priest Okay, Fight It's fit

1431
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 2: had recently finished his seminary training in San Antonio, and

1432
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:38,560
Speaker 2: his name kept turning up in their investigations.

1433
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 1: So he had recently come into town. He was a

1434
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 1: bright and well he was bright and well mannered. He

1435
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 1: had dark hair and hornbordn glasses. He looked like he'd

1436
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: be in Weezer, you know what I'm saying. Yes, he

1437
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 1: struck parishioners, though, as aloof and a bit of a loner,

1438
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 1: and seemed ambivalent about his vocation. When he was asked

1439
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 1: why he had joined the priesthood, he said, I just

1440
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: want to give it a try.

1441
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but if God isn't in that sentence or

1442
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 2: Jesus or some fucking you can't say that out loud.

1443
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: Was he new to Catholicism, You got you got to

1444
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: like be in it to women, Like, if anyone asks

1445
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: either of us why we want to do a true

1446
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 1: crime podcast, it would be like a passionate plea of

1447
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,799
Speaker 1: how interested in fucking crime we are? That's right, and we're.

1448
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 2: Not and talking talking to God, right, mostly talking, but.

1449
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: Also like to not.

1450
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 2: It's almost that very glib, flippant thing of like it's

1451
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 2: here's my funny joke, and like, really, it's none of

1452
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:40,680
Speaker 2: your business.

1453
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:43,560
Speaker 1: Right, is what he's saying, right, which is like to say,

1454
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: anyone who's asking you is like being earnest and being like,

1455
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: tell me, I want to connect to you.

1456
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:52,040
Speaker 2: You're a priest. I'm looking for some fucking guidance and

1457
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 2: some wisdom. Can I get a fucking amen?

1458
01:14:54,800 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: Please? There you go. On the night of Ien's disappearance,

1459
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,640
Speaker 1: father of Fight had heard confessions and taken part in

1460
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 1: a midnight mass. He'd also admitted to his superiors that

1461
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 1: he had met privately with Irene in the church. Rectory,

1462
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: and I wrote in parentheses the house because I didn't

1463
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 1: know what a rectory was. I thought it was in office,

1464
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 1: the church's office.

1465
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 2: I thought it was you know where he went and

1466
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 2: wrote out his I thought it was an office.

1467
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: Well, it's a house, right, I didn't know.

1468
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,640
Speaker 2: That it's the priest house, that's but it's connected to

1469
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 2: the church, so it kind of is like an office.

1470
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: Do all the priests live there or just the one,

1471
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 1: like head priest. It's it's kind of like case by case.

1472
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:41,719
Speaker 1: Like in my hometown, Saint Vincent's, they live at the rectory,

1473
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 1: but you can also go there, Like at my mom's funeral,

1474
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 1: we went to talk to the priest in the rectory

1475
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 1: like in a downstairs office. Doesn't rectory sound like it

1476
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 1: should be like a side room office. Well, it sounds

1477
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: like factory.

1478
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 2: It's where they're just churning out Jesus' statues all day

1479
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 2: and night. But I mean, I think it's like it's basically,

1480
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 2: you know, the church hall is where people like have

1481
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:07,200
Speaker 2: their you know, Sunday coffee clatches or whatever.

1482
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: The rectory is where you'd go and you're like, we

1483
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 1: need to plan a funeral, We need to plan a wedding.

1484
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: This is some serious shit happening here.

1485
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 2: This is the business, and then upstairs the priests live,

1486
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 2: and then it's the busy bodies next door making second.

1487
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 1: I was gonna say Coogle, but they don't know Coogl. No,

1488
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 1: they actually they ban Coogle long ago. All right, I

1489
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: get it. So the rectory is okay, and that was

1490
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 1: viewed by other priests as really inappropriate to take anyone,

1491
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:37,759
Speaker 1: especially a fucking hot twenty five year old lovely woman.

1492
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: All right, So well yeah, because unless she has called,

1493
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 1: like if it was a parish business, she would have

1494
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 1: called like the lady, the lady that runs the office,

1495
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 1: and then like I need to make it an appoint

1496
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 1: But this was for confession specifically. Oh yeah, no, you

1497
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: do that in the confession booth. There's a there's a

1498
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 1: booth that is titled for the thing she was doing.

1499
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 2: They had people build it right into the church so

1500
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 2: people specifically you can sit there and pray and then

1501
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 2: look at people get in confession. Uh huh, that's the

1502
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 2: whole idea of confession. Well he took her to the rectory,

1503
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 2: gross pass.

1504
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:16,920
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, it's it's problematic. Yes, it is also several

1505
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 1: churchgoers who stood in his confession line, which had fuck

1506
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 1: installed out because he fucking picked her out and took

1507
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 1: her to the rectory as a doc oh that night

1508
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:27,760
Speaker 1: told detectives that he seemed to have been absent from

1509
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 1: the sanctuary for long periods of time, and another priest's father,

1510
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 1: John O'Brien, reported seeing scratches on his hands when they

1511
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: drank coffee together at midnight mass. Then detectives learned that

1512
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,600
Speaker 1: on March twenty third, so that's three weeks before Irene

1513
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: Irene disappeared and her body was found, that a woman

1514
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:53,759
Speaker 1: had been attacked at a Catholic church twelve miles from

1515
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 1: that church, the one where Irene went to. Twelve miles away,

1516
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 1: twenty year old college student Marine America Guerrera had visited

1517
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 1: Sacred Heart Church in Edinburgh and noticed a young man

1518
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 1: with dark hair and hornroom glasses. We are sitting alone

1519
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 1: in one of the back pews, and in her mind

1520
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 1: she was like that. I think she had an immediate

1521
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 1: reaction to him. He made me nervous, but she was like,

1522
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 1: calm down, Maria, you're in the church. You're in the

1523
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:23,360
Speaker 1: fucking house of God. Nothing can go wrong, you know.

1524
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 1: She let her guard down, Yeah, which is totally understandable

1525
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: in a church, of course, in a church. Yeah, And

1526
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:29,600
Speaker 1: when she went to the altar and knelt at the

1527
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: communion rail, a man grabbed her from behind and tried

1528
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,799
Speaker 1: to put a rag over her mouth. Holy shit. Yeah,

1529
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 1: she fucking fought the shit out of him, and when

1530
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:42,879
Speaker 1: he put his hand back over her mouth to silence

1531
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: her because she was screaming, she bit the shit out

1532
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 1: of his fingers until he drew blood. She drew blood, Yes,

1533
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 1: that's you know what I'm saying. She ran out the

1534
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 1: side door of the church. She escaped, and in her

1535
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:55,600
Speaker 1: sworn statement, she said that she thought her attacker was

1536
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: a priest. That was the first feeling she got. Wow,

1537
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: which was very controversial. Yeah, you know what I'm saying,

1538
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 1: I bet because this is the fifties or the sixties.

1539
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: This is like, this is nineteen sixties, so we're technically

1540
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: still in the fifties. So I wrote about this that

1541
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: this is this is a long time before the sexual

1542
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 1: allegations against priests started to come out, and people believed, Yeah,

1543
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 1: this wasn't until the nineties that these allegations came out

1544
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: against priests sexually amounting children and it wasn't even until

1545
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 1: way later that people believed them. Well.

1546
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 2: And of course horrible document I mean, oh, amazing documentary.

1547
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:32,599
Speaker 1: I wrote this down. There is it the It's deliver

1548
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:33,640
Speaker 1: Us from Evil.

1549
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 2: And there's a guy in it that talks about when

1550
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:38,719
Speaker 2: he got molested by a priest, being driven into police

1551
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 2: the priest's car because they he didn't have a dad,

1552
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 2: and so he's like, I'll take him out to ice

1553
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 2: cream or whatever, gets molested in the priest car. The

1554
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 2: priest drops him off, he walks into the house says

1555
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 2: to the mom, what just happened. The mother slaps him

1556
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 2: across the face and says, how dare you ever say that?

1557
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 2: And then the priest continues visiting their house for years

1558
01:19:58,040 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 2: to come.

1559
01:19:58,439 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 1: It's the most upsetting.

1560
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:04,600
Speaker 2: It's just children against adults, and there's no everyone's like,

1561
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 2: no fucking way. It's not even children against adults. It's

1562
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:14,679
Speaker 2: children against God's chosen people. And these I highly religious people,

1563
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 2: which I don't completely understand, which is why I was

1564
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 2: excited to talk to you about this because you were

1565
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 2: raised Catholic.

1566
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 1: They're infallible. They are infallible, and you talking badly against

1567
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: a priest is talking badly against Jesus fucking.

1568
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 2: Christ, that's right, right' it's like pre Vatican two shit,

1569
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 2: where it's like it's old like when the popes used

1570
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 2: to control everybody and they were the richest people and

1571
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 2: they fuck anything they wanted and it was just all

1572
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 2: about power and money and basically these Yeah, this is

1573
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 2: why people who were pedophiles went into the priest and

1574
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 2: they went in with carte blanche.

1575
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 1: And we're not saying that Catholicism is bad religion, that

1576
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 1: priests are bad people, that any you know, I'm not

1577
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:02,200
Speaker 1: talking shit on any of this. It's just this reality

1578
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 1: of a really bad period that happened that we need

1579
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:06,560
Speaker 1: to acknowledge.

1580
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and I mean I think at this point

1581
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 2: it's so been acknowledged. Most of the people that I

1582
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 2: know that are good Catholics and that are faith based, like,

1583
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 2: they don't they still believe in they have a relationship

1584
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 2: with God and spirituality.

1585
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: But most of the adults.

1586
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 2: That I know because of the stuff that's happened in

1587
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church are incredible. And I don't just mean

1588
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 2: like people my age, I mean like people my parents'.

1589
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: Age that are just so.

1590
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 2: It's like you can't look at that power structure and go,

1591
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 2: this should continue. This is this is going great. They've

1592
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 2: handled stuff great and it should continue.

1593
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 1: There's there are very few people that feel that way

1594
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 1: because it's just so what a horrible thing. But you

1595
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 1: can't give people absolute power like that.

1596
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 2: No, no, not at all, especially that access, that access

1597
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 2: to families.

1598
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 1: But I have to say this too, like, there are priests.

1599
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 2: In my in sat instance that are some of the

1600
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:01,559
Speaker 2: best people I've ever met.

1601
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it's just that kind of like it's almost

1602
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 1: like the bad ones steal the good the goodwill from

1603
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 1: the good ones, definitely, because those ones, that's like, what

1604
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 1: what a great effect they have on people's lives. Yes,

1605
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: that's how it all works, definitely. So okay, So yeah,

1606
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:23,519
Speaker 1: so this is way before any of these things came

1607
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:26,840
Speaker 1: to light. So at Sunday Mass after Irene's funeral, just

1608
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 1: to show you how protected priests were, the priest told

1609
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 1: the congregation that he knew there were rumors that a

1610
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: priest was involved in Irene's murder, and he said, quote,

1611
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 1: it is impossible that a priest would commit a crime

1612
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 1: like this. Don't speak of it, don't even let yourself

1613
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 1: think it. He said that himself at to the congregation.

1614
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 1: Uh huh yeah right. In late April, detectives drained the

1615
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: irrigation canal where they had found Irene's body and on

1616
01:22:56,520 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: the bottom was a light green Eastman codea slide view

1617
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 1: with a long black cord, So like a.

1618
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:09,080
Speaker 2: Slide viewer, yeah, picture viewer, like one of these, yeah,

1619
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 2: but like to the wall.

1620
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 1: Oh okay, like a slide show.

1621
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah thing, yeah go, we call those code slide viewers

1622
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:17,800
Speaker 2: at our house.

1623
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 1: You know, there is a photo of it online if

1624
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,599
Speaker 1: you look it up, I mean, like of the actual one,

1625
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:25,720
Speaker 1: so that it's long cord on it. It's at the

1626
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 1: bottom of the irrigation canal where they think her body

1627
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: was thrown in. Really Clostopher it was. And they also

1628
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 1: find a candelabra that belonged to the church. John Fight

1629
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 1: is like, oh yeah, I bought that code slide thing

1630
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: last summer. He like is like, oh yeah, that was mine.

1631
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 1: And those candelabra, that kind of libra belongs to the church.

1632
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 1: So what he probably strangled her with and what he

1633
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 1: probably hare with a fucking head with is at the

1634
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: bottom of the fucking canal. And he raises his fucking

1635
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 1: hand and it's like that's mine.

1636
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, because kind of in the confidence of knowing

1637
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 2: no one can do anything about it.

1638
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 1: Who fucking yeah, maybe who knows mm mm hmm. So

1639
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 1: finally the priest sits down with the detectives in early May.

1640
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: He provides, a, of course meticulous account of his actions

1641
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:10,799
Speaker 1: on Easter weekend. He says that he had counseled Irene

1642
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:12,719
Speaker 1: in the Sacred Heart Rectory. He said, yeah, I totally

1643
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:14,640
Speaker 1: did that because she had some information she wanted to

1644
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: give me that was private, so I brought her. That's

1645
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: why I brought her in there.

1646
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 2: He had because of the confession booth, which is a

1647
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:23,600
Speaker 2: muffled closet.

1648
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 1: That no one can hear the from the outside of,

1649
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 1: wasn't private enough.

1650
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,559
Speaker 2: She could only scream her confession as the problems it.

1651
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 1: No. He saw her leave though at whatever time, and

1652
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 1: then he had these like dumb excuses for why he

1653
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: had cuts on his hand and he's like and goodbye.

1654
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 1: Polygraph tests implicate him in both Irene's murder and the

1655
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:48,839
Speaker 1: attack on Maria Guerrera a couple weeks earlier, and in August,

1656
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: father Fight is indicted for assault with intent to rape

1657
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 1: Maria Guerrera. Oh shit. Yeah. The jury though, motherfucking deadlocks

1658
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 1: and the proceedings ended mistrial. And so rather than face

1659
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:06,879
Speaker 1: a second trial in nineteen sixty two, Father Fight pleads

1660
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 1: no contest to reduce charges of aggravated assault, gets fined

1661
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars. And that's it.

1662
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:19,800
Speaker 2: Takes that right out of the goodbye. He takes it

1663
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:23,599
Speaker 2: right out of the church, the bucket what do they

1664
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:27,200
Speaker 2: call it? The collection place? Oh, not losing all of

1665
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 2: my terminology. I mean Jesus Christ.

1666
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 1: That's the guys. Jesus Christ, like.

1667
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 2: Jesus can see and hear you if you're trying to

1668
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:40,840
Speaker 2: raise people in church, clearly, yeah, you fucking lunative.

1669
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's now alleged that the district attorney, that

1670
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 1: the district attorney at the time and church leaders cut

1671
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 1: a deal to stop the investigation into John Fight to

1672
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,759
Speaker 1: protect the reputation of the church. Also most elected officials

1673
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 1: at the time, and it's the Hilda Hill, Hildego County

1674
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:01,799
Speaker 1: where cass click mostly elected leaders.

1675
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was at a time when none other

1676
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 2: than fucking Senator John F. Kennedy is running for the

1677
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 2: present for president that year, who is a fucking Catholic.

1678
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,200
Speaker 2: That's right, it's he's the only He's there's never been

1679
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 2: a Catholic president before. He's the there's only one other

1680
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 2: Catholic that had ever been a nominee for president in

1681
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 2: one of the major parties.

1682
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 1: He had lost, so and An was doing I don't remember.

1683
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:29,479
Speaker 1: I didn't even write it down.

1684
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:34,240
Speaker 2: That wasn't don't think I wouldn't have known.

1685
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: And anti Catholic prejudice is fucking big time. So they're like,

1686
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 1: we need Kennedy to win. We're all fucking Catholics, and

1687
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 1: let's not give them a reason to hate Catholics.

1688
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:49,599
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So like political for political cos yeahing JFK

1689
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,919
Speaker 2: being fucking elected. Wow, And like you know, it's Texas.

1690
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 2: It's a big fucking place. God, that's so funny to think.

1691
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 2: I just always said, it's just my own weird bias.

1692
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 2: Like I I used to think everyone was Catholic when

1693
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 2: I was a kid, that I just assumed everyone was Catholic.

1694
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 1: Was there a lot of well you went to a

1695
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:08,400
Speaker 1: Catholic school.

1696
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:11,200
Speaker 2: I went Catholic school, but also our town was just

1697
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:15,320
Speaker 2: small and mostly Christian, Although then later on I learned

1698
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 2: that there was a big bunch of Pedalma was like

1699
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 2: one of the biggest receivers of of immigrants after World

1700
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:33,920
Speaker 2: War two of Jewish people who are running from the

1701
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 2: war refugees.

1702
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 1: Thank you. Where do they live now? They still live there.

1703
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,720
Speaker 2: There's Jewish there's a couple of temples in pedal Yeah,

1704
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 2: because I think one or two of the families had

1705
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 2: like chicken farms, so they're like, everybody, go out and

1706
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 2: work on go work on the chicken ramps.

1707
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Very cool. Yeah, yeah, interesting. That could be a lie. No, no,

1708
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 1: you said it. No, I believe it.

1709
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm almost positive. I read that it's true. It feels

1710
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 2: so true, it feels really good in my heart. Great, Okay.

1711
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: So basically that means no murder charges are ever filed

1712
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 1: against father. Fight and shortly after the killing, the church

1713
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: transfers him to a far away monastery. So in the

1714
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 1: sixties he spent some time at a treatment center for

1715
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 1: troubled priests in New Mexico and at monasteries in multiple states.

1716
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 1: Hold the phone, please, I will not I want to

1717
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:31,639
Speaker 1: go to a treatment center for troubled priests and kick

1718
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 1: them all in the deck. Right. The horror movie that

1719
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 1: needs to be written out of that. I mean, like

1720
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:38,800
Speaker 1: the children come and attack and kill them all. Oh

1721
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 1: my god, it's like the corn. But add a fucking

1722
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 1: monastery for troubled quote troubled trouble priests, where it's revenge,

1723
01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 1: the children come out of the fields. It's called in

1724
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 1: troubled priests. You're in trouble. You're in trouble. I heard

1725
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 1: what you did this past summer, right, said Jesus, said

1726
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 1: Jesus to the lord that's fucked up whom Everyone in

1727
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:07,400
Speaker 1: that neighborhood where that place was, it was just like

1728
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 1: move away. Well remember when we watched what was the

1729
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 1: really great documentary on Netflix over the summer, Keepers, Yeah,

1730
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,799
Speaker 1: and they and he went and visited the house where

1731
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:21,719
Speaker 1: all the priests had gotten sent to and they lived

1732
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 1: in their were own child molusters and shit. Yeah. Keepers

1733
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 1: is still fucking great. Everyone should watch it. It's so good. Listen.

1734
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,559
Speaker 1: If you want to have a binge weekend of terrible shit,

1735
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: you should watch deliver Us from Evil, which you you

1736
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 1: need to watch. It's historical information that you need to

1737
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:40,519
Speaker 1: know about. It's just fucking life lessons and you just

1738
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 1: need to like calm your pessimism a little bit optimism

1739
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:46,799
Speaker 1: I's gonna say.

1740
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 2: Well it also there's it's that thing of it feels

1741
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 2: like a very new cultural thing where it's like everybody's

1742
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:56,320
Speaker 2: got to get real with the fact that that true

1743
01:29:56,360 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 2: sociopas and psychopaths move in this world in exactly these

1744
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 2: unexpected ways. They are baseball coaches, they are priests, They move.

1745
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:09,920
Speaker 1: Into their they manipulate, and they're good at it. They're

1746
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 1: good at it. They're not And you need to get

1747
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 1: okay with that. Yes, you got you got to if

1748
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:15,559
Speaker 1: you are a single parent, you got to keep your

1749
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: eye double peeled, you got to triple check all the people.

1750
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 2: That want to be in your childhood life, all that stuff,

1751
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:23,960
Speaker 2: which we're saying that to people who know it by heart.

1752
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 2: I mean like that's yeah, but.

1753
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 1: You forget that shit, man, Like when it's you and

1754
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 1: your people and this you know, a guy you're dating. Yeah,

1755
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:32,600
Speaker 1: of course it's fine. You know what I mean. It's like,

1756
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 1: of course you don't think about it in terms of

1757
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:37,200
Speaker 1: your own life. You think about it outside of you.

1758
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:40,839
Speaker 2: Yes, it's just so it's I remember reading that Sports

1759
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:46,599
Speaker 2: Illustrated thing about how many baseball coaches, like little league coaches,

1760
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 2: were pedophiles and it's just the most frightening and insane thing.

1761
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:52,880
Speaker 2: I want to read that. You got to read it.

1762
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:55,719
Speaker 2: It's it's insane. I'm pretty sure was the cover Sports

1763
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 2: Illustrated like ten years ago.

1764
01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:58,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I need to read that. It's so

1765
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 1: crazy because it's and they're they're in the lives. They're

1766
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 1: right there all the sports and everything's dude in sports

1767
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:06,720
Speaker 1: and couldn't be safer in games, and we need to

1768
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: go to this and.

1769
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 2: Practices and then they then that's how they select the

1770
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 2: ones who don't have anybody that's going to come and

1771
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 2: beat the shit out of them if they do anything

1772
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 2: to the kid. They like, that's how they spot vulnerable

1773
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 2: children and people who are I mean, it's just the

1774
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 2: most fucked up thing.

1775
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 1: Very awful.

1776
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:27,920
Speaker 2: Also, Okay, also the movie Spotlight, which came out recently amazing,

1777
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:30,400
Speaker 2: is about that too. So watch so have a nice

1778
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 2: binge weekend and then watch bobs Burgers and Big Mouths

1779
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 2: God to get yourself to feel better.

1780
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:39,519
Speaker 1: Yes, big mouth is amazing. Big Mouths so good. Okay,

1781
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:47,679
Speaker 1: New Mexico Monasteries. Oh, here's fun at one point, here's fun.

1782
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: Here's here's fun. Here's fun at one point, He served

1783
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 1: as a supervisor charged with clearing priests for assignments to churches.

1784
01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 1: So the priests who got sent to the fucking you're

1785
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 1: you're a terrible person. Get out of this town. They're

1786
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:02,519
Speaker 1: going to fucking murder you. Yeah, the attempted rapist priest,

1787
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:05,560
Speaker 1: uh huh they sent into this these places and his monasteries,

1788
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:09,040
Speaker 1: and our fucking friend John Fight was on the fucking clearing.

1789
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:11,200
Speaker 2: House to let them go back into the goddamn world. Good,

1790
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:15,559
Speaker 2: this motherfucker healthy. Yeah, just good decisions all around.

1791
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, being made everybody at every level. We have one

1792
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 1: open seat. Who should we fill with? John Fight? Wait?

1793
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 1: Is the devil not available? Okay? Then right. So one

1794
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 1: of the men that he held clear for parish was

1795
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 1: James Porter, who isn't the guy from deliver Us from

1796
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 1: Evil but could be a child molester convicted of assaulting

1797
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:38,559
Speaker 1: more than a hundred victims, who was a priest. He

1798
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 1: was like, get them back in there. Yeah, you're in

1799
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:45,400
Speaker 1: the game. Yeah, fucking dick. Okay. John Fight left the

1800
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:47,599
Speaker 1: priest had in nineteen seventy two and moved to Phoenix,

1801
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:52,640
Speaker 1: worked as an insurance salesman, got married, had kids and grandkids,

1802
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 1: lives a fucking normal, goddamn life.

1803
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:55,960
Speaker 2: WHOA.

1804
01:32:56,640 --> 01:33:01,719
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Irene's parents, Nick and Josephine Garza, they both passed

1805
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: away in the nineties without ever seeing anyone prosecuted for

1806
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 1: Irene's murder. But they were assured by people in the

1807
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 1: church that father Fight, who they always fucking suspected, would

1808
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 1: be punished by the church if they found out anything

1809
01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 1: had been had been done, and they were assured that

1810
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 1: this was a bigger sentence handed than any court could

1811
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 1: hand down. And so they're like, okay, great, because they

1812
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:27,639
Speaker 1: still fucking believe in the Catholic Church because they were

1813
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 1: fucking Catholics. Well yeah, so April two thousand and two,

1814
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:34,559
Speaker 1: let's jump ahead, okay, all right, forty two years after

1815
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 1: the murder of Irene Garza, a former monk named Dale Tashni,

1816
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 1: who had left the priesthood more than thirty years earlier

1817
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:47,360
Speaker 1: to marry, suddenly he gets a fucking conscience. He says

1818
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:51,000
Speaker 1: that in the summer of nineteen sixty three, he was

1819
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 1: asked to counsel John Fight while while John stayed at

1820
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 1: the monastery where this guy Dale was a fucking priest monk.

1821
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:05,719
Speaker 1: During their six months of counseling. John Fight told Tashni

1822
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:09,080
Speaker 1: of the night that Irene died. This guy called the

1823
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:11,559
Speaker 1: fucking investigator and was like, let me tell you something.

1824
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 1: He told him that father Fight had asked her to

1825
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 1: come to the church rectory and had heard her confession.

1826
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:24,280
Speaker 1: And after the confession he had restrained Irene, maybe bound

1827
01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:27,679
Speaker 1: and gagged her. He had fondled her breasts, and before

1828
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:30,400
Speaker 1: he returned to the sanctuary to hear confessions, he had

1829
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:33,479
Speaker 1: moved her to the rectory basement, and later that evening

1830
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 1: he moved her to another location. Then on Easter Sunday,

1831
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:41,040
Speaker 1: so she's still alive. Then on Easter Sunday he put

1832
01:34:41,080 --> 01:34:44,759
Speaker 1: Irene in a bathtub and placed a bag over her head,

1833
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:47,880
Speaker 1: and as he was leaving the bathroom, he heard her say,

1834
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:52,519
Speaker 1: I can't breathe, I can't breathe. And then Tashni said,

1835
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:55,360
Speaker 1: when he came back later on that day or early evening,

1836
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:59,240
Speaker 1: he found her dead in the bathtub. And then that

1837
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:05,000
Speaker 1: night he put her in a car and took her

1838
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:07,720
Speaker 1: and dropped her affel along a roadside where there was

1839
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:12,960
Speaker 1: a canal. Tashi had kept it to himself out of

1840
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 1: a sense of a religious obligation. For more than four decades.

1841
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 1: He didn't tell anyone.

1842
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:22,200
Speaker 2: It's like he confessed to him, and you can't the

1843
01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 2: in terms of being a priest, that hears confession, you're

1844
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:27,439
Speaker 2: not allowed to repeat it.

1845
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:30,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel so grateful that he came forward

1846
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:35,880
Speaker 1: and said stuff. But at the same time, it's like someone,

1847
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:39,920
Speaker 1: this person, this man murdered this woman. It doesn't that's

1848
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,360
Speaker 1: then that's not a priest. Then that's not a priest anymore.

1849
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:46,240
Speaker 1: The man who murdered someone is not doesn't get to

1850
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:48,600
Speaker 1: have that No, but everybody gets it. It's not just

1851
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 1: for priests.

1852
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:52,639
Speaker 2: It's that's the that's like they're talking to God through

1853
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:54,160
Speaker 2: you and you don't get to intervene.

1854
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're asking for forgiveness.

1855
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:58,479
Speaker 2: And so you have to be that no matter what

1856
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:00,559
Speaker 2: somebody says to you as a priest, do you have

1857
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 2: to say you're forgiven. He was counseling him, so it

1858
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 2: wasn't confession. I mean, I don't know if technically yeah,

1859
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,120
Speaker 2: well I bet you they'd say it was just for

1860
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 2: the protection, right. But the other thing is, wasn't she

1861
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:13,839
Speaker 2: found brutally beaten?

1862
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? So that's bullshit. I was beaten and raped while unconscious,

1863
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:20,000
Speaker 1: so clearly he left some shit out or they just

1864
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:22,919
Speaker 1: tell you everything in this article. Yeah, that's too much.

1865
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:26,439
Speaker 2: But I would bet you that. Like he's basically saying, well,

1866
01:36:26,479 --> 01:36:27,439
Speaker 2: I just did.

1867
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,760
Speaker 1: A couple away and she died, and then she's so,

1868
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's unfortunate.

1869
01:36:32,040 --> 01:36:34,640
Speaker 2: Like he's basically telling the story to this other priest like,

1870
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 2: too bad that happened, as opposed to you finally fucking

1871
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:39,719
Speaker 2: attack this woman.

1872
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that Tashne said was he

1873
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:46,280
Speaker 1: didn't show what I would consider to be compunction or

1874
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:50,519
Speaker 1: sorrow or grief or anything like that. So he had

1875
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:52,840
Speaker 1: kept it too himself. And then he at this point

1876
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:54,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, weeys in his seventies and

1877
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,360
Speaker 1: he had a change of heart and he was like

1878
01:36:57,400 --> 01:37:00,880
Speaker 1: I'll fucking testify, like let's do it. Wow Wow, which

1879
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:05,000
Speaker 1: is incredible. So Texas Rangers then begin to reinvestigate the case.

1880
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:08,960
Speaker 1: When he's contacted, Fight, who's now sixty nine year olds,

1881
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,840
Speaker 1: says that man doesn't exist anymore and he won't say

1882
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 1: anything else.

1883
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 2: Like the man who raped and murdered a woman. Uh huh,

1884
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah he does, dude, Yeah he does. Sorry, he's in you.

1885
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 1: So Rangers also interviewed father O'Brien, who back then was like,

1886
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:27,560
Speaker 1: I saw scratches on his hands. And he tells the

1887
01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:31,400
Speaker 1: rangers that a few months after the murder fight, he

1888
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:33,760
Speaker 1: had confronted fight about whether he had killed Irene, and

1889
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 1: the priest had told him everything. So he too was like, yep,

1890
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:41,599
Speaker 1: I know everything. I'll fucking testify. Oh shit, and yeah,

1891
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:44,840
Speaker 1: he'll tell everything. So and I would say this too.

1892
01:37:45,240 --> 01:37:49,439
Speaker 1: This was back I think that people very rarely broke that.

1893
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:52,600
Speaker 1: Like if I'm telling you, if I'm giving you confession,

1894
01:37:52,720 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 1: you're like, basically you have to forgive me the end.

1895
01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 1: You don't get to say anything that's in like you know,

1896
01:37:57,479 --> 01:38:00,599
Speaker 1: police TV show true anymore.

1897
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:03,559
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm saying I think back then, no one

1898
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,320
Speaker 2: would ever break it, whereas nowadays, I think it's like

1899
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 2: now everyone's seeing the reason that that rule was put

1900
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 2: into place maybe not have been for the best reason, right,

1901
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 2: or that there were many more people that would exploit

1902
01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:17,400
Speaker 2: it than anyone would explact.

1903
01:38:17,439 --> 01:38:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

1904
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:24,880
Speaker 2: So even Catholic defensive. Sorry, that's okay.

1905
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:27,880
Speaker 1: So then in July two thousand and two, the Brownsville

1906
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:31,320
Speaker 1: Herald ran a front page story on Irene's murder and

1907
01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:34,879
Speaker 1: the suspicion about John to fight, and so Hildego County

1908
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:38,640
Speaker 1: District Attorney Renee Guerrera was asked if he planned to

1909
01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 1: pursue an indictment in the case, because they were like,

1910
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:42,599
Speaker 1: we have all this fucking evidence now, including two people

1911
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:47,439
Speaker 1: who he told murdered Irene, and they're willing to testify.

1912
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:50,599
Speaker 1: And this guy Renee was like, can it said quote,

1913
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 1: can it be solved? Well, I guess if people leave

1914
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 1: that pigs can fly anything as possible. And then he said,

1915
01:38:55,320 --> 01:38:58,240
Speaker 1: why would anyone be haunted by her death? She died,

1916
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:02,040
Speaker 1: her killer got away. So he fucking flippantly who is

1917
01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:05,960
Speaker 1: this guy, this guy Renee Guerrera, He's a fucking Hildigo.

1918
01:39:06,479 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 1: No wait, he'll hidalgo, thank you. Oh my god.

1919
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 2: I only say that because of the movie starring Vigo

1920
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:15,799
Speaker 2: Mortenson about him and his horse.

1921
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:21,000
Speaker 1: He'll Hidalgo, Hidalgo, Yeah, thank you Jesus m Yeah. So

1922
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:23,400
Speaker 1: at the time, so then he got all this negative

1923
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 1: publicity and he's like, okay, fine, uh sorry he was

1924
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:29,560
Speaker 1: the prosecutor, though he was the district attorney. Oh okay, okay,

1925
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:32,120
Speaker 1: So he got all this negative publicity because her fucking

1926
01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:34,200
Speaker 1: family's still alive. Her parents aren't, but the rest of

1927
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 1: her family's like, we fucking care that she died. Yeah,

1928
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:40,000
Speaker 1: so he in two thousand and four, he asked he

1929
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:42,360
Speaker 1: has two of his prosecutors present the evidence to a

1930
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 1: grand jury to indict John Fight, but they don't fucking

1931
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:48,200
Speaker 1: call either of those priests to testify, the ones who

1932
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:51,240
Speaker 1: he told that he killed them. And so, of course,

1933
01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, the jury declined to indict

1934
01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:57,200
Speaker 1: him and no build the case. So that was the

1935
01:39:57,320 --> 01:40:01,519
Speaker 1: chance to fucking finally before John Fight dies, to get

1936
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:04,679
Speaker 1: him held responsible for the murder of Irene. And those

1937
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,479
Speaker 1: two priests had said that they would testify, they wanted to,

1938
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:09,760
Speaker 1: They were waiting by the fucking phone to be called

1939
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:11,760
Speaker 1: up to testify, and they just didn't do it. They

1940
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:15,320
Speaker 1: didn't call them. And it turns out, of course, Rene

1941
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 1: Guerrera was Catholic. Yeah right, Yeah, So ten fucking years later,

1942
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:26,640
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, there's a district attorney's race in Hidalgo

1943
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:32,400
Speaker 1: County and finally Rene gets fucking beat by Ricardo Rodriguez.

1944
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:35,519
Speaker 1: And in his race, he promised he would re examine

1945
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:41,120
Speaker 1: the case of elected Oh, so fucking Ricardo is elected. Wow. Great.

1946
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:43,439
Speaker 1: They spent a year and two months re examining the

1947
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:46,160
Speaker 1: case and all the evidence, and more than fifty seven

1948
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 1: fucking years after the murder of Irene Garza, eighty three

1949
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 1: year old John Fight is finally fucking arrested in Arizona

1950
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:58,840
Speaker 1: for first degree murder. Former monk Dale fucking Tashne eighty

1951
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:03,400
Speaker 1: eight years old testified eighty eight years old.

1952
01:41:03,640 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 2: Now when you say monk, does it say anything else

1953
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 2: about that him being a monk.

1954
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 1: There's just a photo of him with that hair, you

1955
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:14,880
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. He's got the robes and the hair,

1956
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:17,000
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, honey, you must have been dedicated,

1957
01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:21,040
Speaker 1: because my god, he looks like he's on spaceballs. I'm

1958
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:24,760
Speaker 1: just I'm just trying to figure out what that is.

1959
01:41:24,800 --> 01:41:28,120
Speaker 2: If he's like a Christian brother, what like his specific

1960
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:28,800
Speaker 2: deal was.

1961
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:31,559
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's very involved, but I don't understand. Okay,

1962
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:34,040
Speaker 1: I just knew that it was like a monk, but

1963
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:37,320
Speaker 1: he was like but it was like priests were hanging

1964
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:39,120
Speaker 1: out with him. Yep. I don't know.

1965
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:41,920
Speaker 2: He's just in a different kind of like set up

1966
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:46,320
Speaker 2: Catholic thing. Yeah, Okay, maybe he made wine.

1967
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:50,120
Speaker 1: The hair though. Yep, my god. So Dale, what's up?

1968
01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:53,799
Speaker 1: Eighty eight year old Dale testifies against him December eighth?

1969
01:41:53,840 --> 01:41:58,240
Speaker 1: What's the date today? The twelfth? Yes, December fucking eighth,

1970
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:03,040
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and four days ago. Oh shit. Yeah. After

1971
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:07,520
Speaker 1: a six day trial in the Hidalgo County Courthouse in Edinburgh,

1972
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:11,519
Speaker 1: a jury fucking convicted John fight whoa now eighty five

1973
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:15,120
Speaker 1: year old ex priest, of murdering Irene Garza, and he

1974
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:19,000
Speaker 1: receives a life sentence in prison. Oh my god, Yeah,

1975
01:42:19,040 --> 01:42:24,240
Speaker 1: this just fucking came out. That's incredible. Nineteen sixty has

1976
01:42:24,280 --> 01:42:29,120
Speaker 1: when happened in fucking what are we? Twenty seventeen? Yeah,

1977
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:31,040
Speaker 1: she was still alive today. Irene would be eighty three

1978
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:34,599
Speaker 1: years old. In a letter written to a friend right

1979
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:38,120
Speaker 1: before she died, she stated that she's happier than she's

1980
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 1: ever been and said to her friend, I remember the

1981
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:43,360
Speaker 1: last time we talked, I told you I was afraid

1982
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 1: of death. Well I think I'm cured. You see, I've

1983
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:48,960
Speaker 1: been going to communion in mass daily and you can't

1984
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:52,559
Speaker 1: imagine the courage and faith and happiness it's given me.

1985
01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 1: Oh and uh, that's the story of the murder of

1986
01:42:57,320 --> 01:43:01,200
Speaker 1: Irene Garza by motherfucker or John Fight.

1987
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:07,080
Speaker 2: Wow, I can't believe that ended. Well, I know, right,

1988
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:10,400
Speaker 2: it never happens in the Catholic Church. Every time it's

1989
01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 2: a Catholic Church story. Yeah, it frustrates you. It discuss

1990
01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:16,320
Speaker 2: you cold cases too, goes crazy.

1991
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:19,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. So she's like in one of those walkers in

1992
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:22,960
Speaker 1: court that are also chairs. Yeah you know that, you see, Yeah,

1993
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:25,519
Speaker 1: trying to look all old. And he a couple of

1994
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:27,400
Speaker 1: things he said when he got arrested were like, I

1995
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 1: don't understand this has happened in nineteen sixty Like his excuse,

1996
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:32,880
Speaker 1: I don't understand this was happening now, this was so

1997
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:35,280
Speaker 1: long ago. And this woman says to him, there's no

1998
01:43:35,360 --> 01:43:38,800
Speaker 1: statute of limitations on murder. Like he's trying to play

1999
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:40,880
Speaker 1: it off like this was so long ago. Yeah, why

2000
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:42,400
Speaker 1: are you guys making a big deal about it?

2001
01:43:42,479 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, he's acting like a confused old man. Yeah,

2002
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:49,360
Speaker 2: when he's a fucking sexual predator and murderer. Well, also,

2003
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:51,760
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how old he is. It doesn't matter

2004
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:53,759
Speaker 2: how old he is, It doesn't matter what his opinion

2005
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:56,920
Speaker 2: about is a grandpa or or hikes for that shion

2006
01:43:57,080 --> 01:44:00,639
Speaker 2: is not relevant. You already were confused. That's why you're

2007
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:03,760
Speaker 2: like this. So your opinion about it and how you

2008
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:07,599
Speaker 2: see it is not valid because according to you, no

2009
01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 2: one's life matters, and any woman is a woman gets

2010
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 2: the grass sixty who cares. No, No, A lot of

2011
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:16,599
Speaker 2: people care. A lot of people care, and a lot

2012
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:21,320
Speaker 2: of people are tired of people like that guy exploiting

2013
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 2: positions of not just power, but automatic trust.

2014
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that thing that's what's so gross.

2015
01:44:28,760 --> 01:44:30,760
Speaker 2: Can you imagine going into a church or like, I

2016
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:34,120
Speaker 2: can't imagine going into a church and getting a creepy

2017
01:44:34,360 --> 01:44:37,400
Speaker 2: vibe of like, oh no, the guy that works here

2018
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:40,800
Speaker 2: is scaring me. Yeah, that's the exact opposite of how

2019
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 2: churches are supposed to work.

2020
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:44,840
Speaker 1: Well, there should be no such thing as automatic trust. Yeah,

2021
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:47,679
Speaker 1: I mean it sucks, but even you know, you're fucking

2022
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:54,759
Speaker 1: pediatrician or you're fucking you know, you're what's it called anything,

2023
01:44:55,320 --> 01:44:58,639
Speaker 1: There's just there's no such thing anymore, right, and there

2024
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:02,240
Speaker 1: never was. We just let it happen, right, Yeah, it's

2025
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:02,920
Speaker 1: okay to be.

2026
01:45:04,360 --> 01:45:06,880
Speaker 2: Just be aware, be careful, and thank God for the

2027
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:12,160
Speaker 2: Internet and checkie checkie, checkie check everyone's fucking everything record.

2028
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:17,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, such a good story. Thank you,

2029
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:23,439
Speaker 1: Hi Hi. Tenth episode.

2030
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:29,280
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, there's there's a lot of feelings.

2031
01:45:30,439 --> 01:45:33,040
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. What are the updates for this case?

2032
01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:38,520
Speaker 1: John Fate was incarcerated at the wj Estelle unit in Huntsville,

2033
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:42,759
Speaker 1: Texas and died of natural causes on February twelfth, twenty

2034
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 1: twenty so pretty recently actually on Buried Bombs. Also, Kate

2035
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 1: and Paul cover the murder of Irene Garza on their

2036
01:45:50,120 --> 01:45:52,120
Speaker 1: episode called Sacred Heart.

2037
01:45:52,479 --> 01:45:54,720
Speaker 2: So a lot of Kate Winkler Boston getting in there

2038
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:57,680
Speaker 2: and being professional. Yeah. Well it's a Texas story, so

2039
01:45:57,680 --> 01:46:00,840
Speaker 2: it's probably one that would be closer to her heart. Okay,

2040
01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:02,679
Speaker 2: well it's time to get into good things of the week.

2041
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:03,559
Speaker 2: Then let's do it.

2042
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:08,559
Speaker 1: Anything good this week for you.

2043
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:12,760
Speaker 2: I guess it was so fun to do those live

2044
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:16,360
Speaker 2: shows we had. I had such a good time I

2045
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:19,680
Speaker 2: did to speaking for you. But like, it's just such a.

2046
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:23,040
Speaker 1: Joy to have that be a job. It's insane because

2047
01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:24,040
Speaker 1: I'm always prepared.

2048
01:46:24,479 --> 01:46:26,080
Speaker 2: Like I really hate leaving my house and I hate

2049
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:28,000
Speaker 2: leaving my dogs, and I get a little stressy for that,

2050
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:31,360
Speaker 2: but it's always just that we have so much fun,

2051
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:34,599
Speaker 2: and then there's people that just like give us really

2052
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:38,400
Speaker 2: nice presents and say really nice things. One thing that

2053
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 2: I guess gets me is a lot of people talk

2054
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:42,519
Speaker 2: to me about my mom.

2055
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:44,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like's brought up a lot.

2056
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:46,559
Speaker 2: It gets brought up a lot of like it's a

2057
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:49,559
Speaker 2: young women who are like, I'm a psych nurse or

2058
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:51,880
Speaker 2: my minding to be a nurse. But there's a lot

2059
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 2: of my mom passed away recently too, and you really

2060
01:46:54,360 --> 01:46:54,840
Speaker 2: helped me.

2061
01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:58,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, just by talking about it. Yeah, exactly. It's it's

2062
01:46:58,880 --> 01:46:59,679
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's.

2063
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:03,679
Speaker 2: You know, it's cool when we get to go out

2064
01:47:03,760 --> 01:47:07,519
Speaker 2: and hear from people about like the meaning of things,

2065
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 2: because to us it's like I just go, oh, well,

2066
01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:14,680
Speaker 2: I just did a very interesting murder case in a

2067
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:20,360
Speaker 2: mediocre manner in our way, and then we talked about

2068
01:47:20,400 --> 01:47:22,360
Speaker 2: a bunch of bullshit. It's like, I don't know, it

2069
01:47:22,439 --> 01:47:25,280
Speaker 2: just is very meaningful. It's just like such a nice feeling. Yeah,

2070
01:47:25,400 --> 01:47:27,000
Speaker 2: you know, we have like lots of friends.

2071
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:28,840
Speaker 1: We don't know. As we say at the end of

2072
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:32,360
Speaker 1: every show, it's like we thank you guys for letting

2073
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:36,400
Speaker 1: us do this. As a job. The two of us

2074
01:47:36,439 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 1: are fucking blown away by the fact that our lives

2075
01:47:40,040 --> 01:47:42,719
Speaker 1: have turned into this incredible thing because of this podcast

2076
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:44,240
Speaker 1: that we started on a fucking whim.

2077
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:49,080
Speaker 2: It's super weird. It's super weird. It is and fun.

2078
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:53,120
Speaker 2: We didn't expect this. We are in awe of all

2079
01:47:53,160 --> 01:47:56,160
Speaker 2: of you guys who are like these incredible people and.

2080
01:47:56,760 --> 01:47:57,519
Speaker 1: Like showing up.

2081
01:47:57,600 --> 01:47:59,840
Speaker 2: Like I barely leave my house to do anything, so

2082
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 2: when I stand there and like, it's like a theater

2083
01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:06,360
Speaker 2: full of people like went and bought tickets and showed

2084
01:48:06,439 --> 01:48:10,559
Speaker 2: up and some have signs and some have uh, it's

2085
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 2: just crazy funny shirts they made, yeah, cookies and crafts

2086
01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:15,240
Speaker 2: and mugs.

2087
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just really I just feel super lucky. Every

2088
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:20,360
Speaker 1: time we come home from a trip or anytime we

2089
01:48:20,400 --> 01:48:24,840
Speaker 1: go on a fucking trip for the show. It's it's

2090
01:48:24,880 --> 01:48:27,519
Speaker 1: mind boggling. Yeah, it's so fun and uh yeah, so

2091
01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:29,920
Speaker 1: I think we're about to end the year with one

2092
01:48:29,960 --> 01:48:33,240
Speaker 1: hundred episode. Yes, so I guess maybe it's just thank

2093
01:48:33,240 --> 01:48:35,800
Speaker 1: you guys for letting us do this incredible thing. This

2094
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:39,719
Speaker 1: year has been fucking bananas an awesome and we're honored.

2095
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 2: It's incredible. It's beautiful. We fucking appreciate it so much,

2096
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:47,080
Speaker 2: we really do. And thank you, thanks for I don't know,

2097
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:51,560
Speaker 2: thanks for being thanks for thanks for liking it. Yeah,

2098
01:48:51,640 --> 01:48:54,920
Speaker 2: it's weird. It is, what's your thing, that's the same things.

2099
01:48:55,080 --> 01:48:57,599
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go Sama. Are we gonna do sharess? We're

2100
01:48:57,600 --> 01:48:59,960
Speaker 2: gonna shame, shame it. We're gonna shame.

2101
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:04,040
Speaker 1: We're a shame share shame share Okay, cool, I love it.

2102
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 1: I do show. Okay, we're back, we are back. I

2103
01:49:11,360 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 1: think it's interesting.

2104
01:49:12,240 --> 01:49:14,759
Speaker 2: I know you have a different opinion than me about

2105
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 2: the live shows. So is that because I'm just my

2106
01:49:18,240 --> 01:49:19,880
Speaker 2: good thing of the week is I'm grateful that I

2107
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:20,880
Speaker 2: get to do live shows.

2108
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:23,920
Speaker 1: I love the live shows. I don't like the travel

2109
01:49:24,240 --> 01:49:26,800
Speaker 1: touring part. Oh oh gosh. Actually, and that's not even

2110
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:30,360
Speaker 1: true because Vince gets to come. So it's great, like

2111
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:33,760
Speaker 1: we've fine tuned it now we have, it's gotten much better.

2112
01:49:33,800 --> 01:49:35,920
Speaker 2: But it was really fun when it was the three

2113
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:37,240
Speaker 2: of us on this adventure.

2114
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:38,840
Speaker 1: It's totally fun.

2115
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:43,200
Speaker 2: It's just got exhausting to come home, then have two

2116
01:49:43,360 --> 01:49:46,599
Speaker 2: or three days getting ready to leave again, and then

2117
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:50,760
Speaker 2: another crazy five days of traveling and working and you know,

2118
01:49:50,920 --> 01:49:53,280
Speaker 2: and it kept going like it wasn't. We would plan

2119
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:55,559
Speaker 2: like a three month tour and then it would get

2120
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:57,920
Speaker 2: tacked on and tacked on. So we started really becoming

2121
01:49:58,400 --> 01:49:59,679
Speaker 2: I hate to say it, road dogs.

2122
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:01,840
Speaker 1: I hate to say it. You'd love to say it.

2123
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:03,680
Speaker 1: I did love to say it, and I love to

2124
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:06,400
Speaker 1: do it. It's I don't know what point we were like, hey,

2125
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:09,240
Speaker 1: maybe we should stop looking for the cheapest hotels and

2126
01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:12,599
Speaker 1: actually stay somewhere that we are excited about, like give

2127
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:13,800
Speaker 1: us something to look forward to.

2128
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:16,320
Speaker 2: Yes, it was the hotel near the airport in Palm

2129
01:50:16,400 --> 01:50:19,240
Speaker 2: Beach that the entire hotel smelled like chlorine. And that's

2130
01:50:19,280 --> 01:50:22,200
Speaker 2: when you said it first, because I wanted to say it,

2131
01:50:22,240 --> 01:50:24,719
Speaker 2: but I was like, well, I'm I will spend money

2132
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:28,439
Speaker 2: like and you go, We're never we're always going to

2133
01:50:28,439 --> 01:50:31,400
Speaker 2: stay in nice hotels now, because that's too makes it

2134
01:50:31,439 --> 01:50:32,000
Speaker 2: too hard.

2135
01:50:32,479 --> 01:50:35,080
Speaker 1: I became a diva about it. I was like, if

2136
01:50:35,080 --> 01:50:37,200
Speaker 1: we're going to do this, I want there to be

2137
01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:41,000
Speaker 1: this like little shining part of it that we're excited

2138
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:43,000
Speaker 1: about where there's not a strong smell that keeps you

2139
01:50:43,080 --> 01:50:46,760
Speaker 1: up at night. Yeah, and like shining fucking bones in

2140
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:50,120
Speaker 1: the hallway. That place was legendary. Yeah, it was great.

2141
01:50:50,439 --> 01:50:54,519
Speaker 1: It was just a pool. We were hallucinating. We're just

2142
01:50:54,560 --> 01:50:56,320
Speaker 1: sleeping in a pool.

2143
01:50:56,880 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 2: Okay, So this episode we entitled shin Kick, but today

2144
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:04,679
Speaker 2: if we were naming it, we could call it, of course,

2145
01:51:04,880 --> 01:51:07,759
Speaker 2: Sounds of the Podcast Train, which is how we started

2146
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:13,439
Speaker 2: being the podcast that hilarious, The Sounds of the podcast Train,

2147
01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:18,559
Speaker 2: clumsily clumbering, legendary. Also, wing Dings was made for us,

2148
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:21,479
Speaker 2: was very true, of course, all up in that tomb

2149
01:51:21,479 --> 01:51:22,840
Speaker 2: where I'm describing to you.

2150
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:27,640
Speaker 1: About Easter, has that ever been said all up in

2151
01:51:28,080 --> 01:51:32,040
Speaker 1: the history of history about Jesus? I mean, I don't

2152
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:32,360
Speaker 1: think so.

2153
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:35,400
Speaker 2: It's possible that maybe some Christian rappers did it in

2154
01:51:35,439 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 2: the nineties.

2155
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:38,880
Speaker 1: Sure could be. I'm ripping them off. Yeah, all right,

2156
01:51:38,920 --> 01:51:42,679
Speaker 1: Well that's it, right, I think that's this week's episode

2157
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:46,439
Speaker 1: of rewind. We have done it. Let's say goodbye, and

2158
01:51:46,640 --> 01:51:54,559
Speaker 1: let Elvis say goodbye from the podloft in twenty seventeen. Well,

2159
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:59,200
Speaker 1: then stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye bye, Elvis.

2160
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:07,519
Speaker 1: My cookie. That was a definitive yess my cookie. Cookie

2161
01:52:07,600 --> 01:52:07,640
Speaker 1: f