1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and Chuck's 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 2: here and it's just us and that's fine, and this 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: is stuff you should know. One of my favorite types 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: of addition is the Distant Past Let's figure it out 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: edition and it's so surprising edition. 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: Oh man, you've always loved this stuff. 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: Huh, I certainly have it. Jazz is me at least 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: as much as Earth's science. 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you know the age old question like 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: if you could, you know, have a real wayback machine 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: and go back and go to like any concert. Your 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: answer would be like m something where tuk took like 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: took bones and banged it on rocks just so I 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: could see what was going on. 16 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: Ah yeah from a distance, as long as you didn't 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: know I was there, because I assume I would get 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: beaten to death by that same guy. 19 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: You know you're like that. And craft Works first tour. 20 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: I saw craft Work in the Disney like concert hall 21 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: in La No. 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: I'm very jealous of that show. 23 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: I'll tell you about that every time. Man. That was 24 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: a great show. 25 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: Looks amazing. 26 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had like a three D light display and 27 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: everything one day. Yeah, one day. They're still touring as 28 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: far as I know. 29 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, they don't get around here that much, you know, No, 30 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: but when they do, go see them, No for sure. 31 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: Also, while we're on recommendations, I watched a movie that 32 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: I've just been passing over for years now that is 33 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 2: actually worth the watch. It's a mind bending horror movie 34 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: called Triangle. I think it's Australian because I'm pretty sure 35 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: just about everybody in it's Australian, but they're pretending to 36 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: be American. But it's it's you know how often like 37 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: mind bending movies that like mess with like just reality 38 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: and stuff like just fall apart at some point. This 39 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: one stayed tight from beginning to end. 40 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: It. Wow. 41 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a good movie. I would definitely recommend it. 42 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 2: I mean I don't think it won any Oscars or 43 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: anything like that, but it was definitely worth watching. 44 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: You know what, you can take the Oscar Award and 45 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: stick it right up the collective butt of the world. 46 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: This is just called Triangle. 47 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 2: Just Triangle. 48 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: Yes, all right, okay, never heard of it. 49 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: You all hang out here, you go watch it and 50 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: then come back and we'll talk about it. 51 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: Two thousand and nine British film is what it says? 52 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: Is that possible? 53 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: I thought it was like twenty eighteen. Does it look 54 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: like there's a person wearing like a bag over their 55 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: head in the on the poster? 56 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: No, that's another one trying. 57 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: I want to say twenty eighteen. 58 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: Fear Comes in Waves. Probably, Yes, it looks very b movie. 59 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. 60 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: That's what I thought too. 61 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: That can be good. 62 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: I totally thought it looked be too. And then I 63 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: was like, this is really good. This movie hasn't gotten 64 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: enough credit from me. 65 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'll check it out. 66 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: Okay, So all of the archaeology and anthropology fans are like, 67 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: shut up and start talking about go Beckley tepee. I 68 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: don't know why that was hard. It's really actually a 69 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: very easy word to say, or a pair of words. 70 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw tepee. Actually, I don't know how specific 71 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: that gets though. 72 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: That's spoken by people who raise their pinkies when they 73 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: drink their tea. 74 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, but a tepee is is like a mound or 75 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: a hill. Correct. 76 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, go Beckley means belly, so people take it to 77 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: basically mean pop belly hill. 78 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this this is a place in Turkey, and 79 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: it is an a place where a lot of archaeological 80 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: digging is still going on, and it was one of 81 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: these places that is. And I know you love this 82 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of thing more than anything, but like when an 83 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: archaeological find kind of up ends traditional thought of how 84 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: we thought things were, and this is one of the 85 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: eight examples of that. 86 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when it's true and not like pseudoscience, like 87 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: somebody's like it was ancient aliens. 88 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: Right, Well, where's the proof? 89 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: They're like, it's ancient aliens? Man, don't don't harsh my mellow. 90 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: Well you want to hear something funny? What part of 91 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: what I watched on YouTube about this was from the 92 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: show Ancient Aliens. 93 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of like pseudo archaeology that 94 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: surrounds this that you have to kind of be careful of. Yeah, 95 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: for sure, this is like true, like this truly has 96 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: upended our current or yeah, I guess still basically our 97 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: current understanding. And that is thus we've told this story 98 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: many many times on this podcast, and it turns out 99 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 2: that it's probably at least oversimplified, if not just outright 100 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: and correct, But the whole basis of what we're talking 101 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 2: about has to do with the Neolithic Revolution, which says 102 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 2: that somewhere around ten eleven thousand years ago, people in 103 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: the Fertile Crescent Mesopotamia started to settle down, raise crops, 104 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: and as they were able to support more people, more 105 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: and more people came and moved to that area. They 106 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: domesticated animals, cities sprung up, and then from the city's 107 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 2: hierarchies grew and then we had kingdoms and wars and 108 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff, and also arts, culture, architecture. All 109 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: that stuff developed from the people first settling down in 110 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 2: domesticating cross becoming sedentary, like transitioning from hunter gathers to 111 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: farmers essentially, and that that was the start of all 112 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: the other stuff that followed. Go Beckley Teppe turns that 113 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: on its head essentially. 114 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: That's right. And this was one of those discoveries that, 115 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: like I said, really sort of upends everything that we 116 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: thought to be true. The real discovery and you know, 117 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: we'll kind of get to what had happened before this, 118 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: But the big, big find was in nineteen ninety four, 119 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: and that's when you know, archaeologists started really literally digging 120 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: into it. It had been known to local there, you know, 121 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: for a while obviously, because it's sort of like the 122 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Sherpa that are like climb this mountain all the time. 123 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: There were people living nearby and Turkey in the nineteen 124 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: sixties even that were finding pretty cool stuff here. But 125 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: it wasn't until nineteen ninety four that they made the big, 126 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: big discovery and really, like I said, started digging in 127 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: and forming opinions over and you know, we'll get to 128 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: these because they still haven't settled on exactly what gebecley 129 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: Tepe was. 130 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: No, they haven't, which explains why we haven't said what 131 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 2: it is yet. But that nineteen sixties survey found a 132 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: bunch of slabs of limestone, but they mistook what they were. 133 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: They mistook their significance. They thought they were gravestones from 134 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: a medieval cemetery, and it would turn out that they 135 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: were about eleven thousand years older than that, because what 136 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: go beckley Tepe was when they started digging it up 137 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: in the nineties under the leadership of a guy named 138 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: Klaus Schmidt, who was the guy who saw this and 139 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: was like, this is not a natural formation, this is 140 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 2: clearly human made. Let's see what's underneath this hill. He 141 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: found that this was essentially a Neolithic settlement that dates 142 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: back at its earliest spot as far as we know, 143 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: to about eleven thousand, six hundred years before today. 144 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the significance of all of this, 145 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: if we haven't been clear enough, is that basically they're 146 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: dating this long before like hundreds maybe even a thousand 147 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: years before what we thought was when people started settling 148 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: down and becoming farmers, which led to all the you know, 149 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,239 Speaker 1: modern advances eventually that we know today that, like you mentioned, 150 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: so this was a long long time before that when 151 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: we were like no, no, no, At the time, people were 152 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: just moving around hunting and gathering and kind of just 153 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: I don't know about struggling to survive, but subsistence living, 154 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, from season to season, that kind of thing. 155 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: And ninety four, like you said, was when Schmidt came 156 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: in there and he got pretty excited, like so excited 157 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 1: that he bought a house nearby and set up camp 158 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: and said, all right, this is going to be the 159 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: base for me and my small team. Anytime students are 160 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: coming over here, they can stay here, and this is 161 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: now the official home base of this extraordinarily interesting archaeological site. 162 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he would go on to lead the dig 163 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: at Gobeca Teppe until his death I think at age 164 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: sixty in twenty fourteen. If I'm not mistake anybody or else, 165 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 2: you know, well, this was like he was like, well, 166 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: here's my career. This is what I'm doing for the 167 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: rest of my life. Like they're totally they They've been 168 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 2: digging at Gebecley Tepping now for what thirty years. They've 169 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: easily got another fifty years of excavation left unless some 170 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: huge new technological advance and archaeology comes along, but using 171 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: current practice says they have decades left of exploration to 172 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: do of this site. But what Schmidt found from the 173 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: outset just didn't make sense because, like you said, they 174 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: think that they were building this before people even started 175 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: to settle down and start farming, which means it was 176 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: thousands of years before people should have been able to 177 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: create things like this, like massive structures. That it takes 178 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 2: a lot of people in a coordinated manner to come 179 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: up with a coherent plan and then build this stuff 180 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: and then also imbue it with symbolism as we'll see, 181 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: it just did not make sense. But the date the 182 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: radiocarbon dating was right and so Klaus Schmidt was smart 183 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: enough to be like, we might have this whole Neolithic 184 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 2: revolution story wrong. 185 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, so just sort of brass tacks. It 186 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: is in southern Turkey. It's located at the highest point 187 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: of the Germis germ Us unfortunately named Mountain range, which 188 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: is right on the edge of the Fertile Crescent there 189 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: not coincidentally, and the mound itself is about fifty feet tall, 190 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: covers about twenty two acres and it was kind of 191 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: one of these things where basically he had gone there 192 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: he knew that people nearby had dug up some things 193 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: that looked like tools and stuff like that. He was like, well, 194 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: this is pretty interesting. And when he stood back and looked, 195 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: he was like, that hill up there doesn't look like 196 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: the rest of these sort of flatish plateaus. It's more 197 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: rounded and it looks like clearly formed by humans. And 198 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: that's when everyone, you know, all the locals in their language, 199 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: said no, duh, we've known this for a while. So 200 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: he said, all right, you know, I'm going to set 201 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: up shop here, and they got to work, starting with 202 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: that uppermost level, which was what did we figure it 203 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: was like ten thousand ish years ago. 204 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: Yes, so the most recent use of it was ten 205 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: thousand years ago. And Olivia helps us with this, and 206 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: she pointed something out that I thought is definitely worth mentioning. 207 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: The go Beckley Tepe site was older to the people 208 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: who built the pyramids at Giza and Stonehenge. Then the 209 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: people who built the pyramids and Stonehenge are to us. 210 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 2: It's that ancient, that like, it was, yeah, thousands and 211 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: thousands of years old. That ancient when the people started 212 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: building the pyramids. It's just yeah, like you said, it's 213 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 2: a brain breaker, like how old this thing was, and 214 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: then what they were able to do and what they're 215 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: able to do. So, by the way, no one knows 216 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: what culture this is, because again it's not supposed to 217 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: be a culture from our understanding of people at the time. 218 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: I've seen interpretations of communities at around this time what's 219 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 2: called the pre pottery Neolithic, which is a specific era 220 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: in the Fertile Crescent where there wasn't pottery. Pottery existed 221 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: elsewhere in the world, like Japan was making a maze 222 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: using conk shell pottery around this time. China has twenty 223 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: thousand year old pottery, but just in the fertile Christ 224 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: and they hadn't started making pottery yet, so they're called 225 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: the pre pottery Neolithic group essentially. But suffice to say, 226 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 2: this group got together and decided to build this at 227 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 2: least as far back as eleven six hundred years ago, 228 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: and then they stopped using it about ten thousand years ago. 229 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they started top down, like you said, the 230 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: most recent use would be the stuff on top, obviously, 231 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: and they started to notice, wow, there are actually buildings 232 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: here with straight walls, so that means that somebody shaped those. 233 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't just by pure chance or luck that those 234 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: walls ended up being straight. They found these limestone pillars. 235 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: There were about two meters high on this upper level. 236 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: Some of them had decorations on them. These upper ones 237 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: had etchings of lions. And then they started going down. 238 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: Obviously things are getting a little bit older, and then 239 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: they said, wow, these pillars are getting a lot bigger 240 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: than the ones on top. Some of these things are 241 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: fifteen to eighteen feet high, weigh about ten tons, and 242 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: they look like they're arranged in very specific ways. There 243 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: were at least twenty circles or ovals that had these 244 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: that basically made up these enclosures, and there were you know, 245 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: some of them actually were shaped in such a way 246 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: that they wondered, like, it's no accident that they're shaped 247 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: in the form of a triangle. If you connect them, 248 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: like it might be like a stone hinge kind of 249 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: thing happening. 250 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely one theory is that at least part 251 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 2: of this was a cosmic observatory. And yeah, like you said, 252 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 2: the settlement overall the site forms it like some of 253 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: the columns form an equilateral triangle, and then the center 254 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: of the site bisects that triangle perfectly. So it's just 255 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 2: it's not accidental. And again, people weren't supposed to be 256 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 2: using geometry, even root menary geometry at this point for 257 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: thousands of more years, and yet these people were doing it. 258 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: Some of the other things that they figured out, as 259 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 2: the limestone did come from the area, but it still 260 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 2: came from hundreds of meters away, right, So these you said, 261 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 2: sixteen feet about five and a half meters ten tons 262 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: of rocks carved out of the limestone bedrock and then 263 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: carried over to this site and then raised. That takes 264 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 2: a lot of people, even using like logs and rollers 265 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: and things like that it still takes a lot of coordination, 266 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: and yeah, it takes a lot of determination too. And 267 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: to me, the fact that those columns are smaller and 268 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: smaller the more recent you get, and then bigger further 269 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: down almost suggests that there was like a loss of 270 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: enthusiasm over time. 271 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: They got worn out. 272 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: I think so, yeah, over thirteen hundred years or yeah, 273 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 2: thirteen hundred. 274 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: Years, they're like, hey, those inner levels look great, but 275 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: do we really need that much headroom? The tallest one 276 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: among us is five and a half feet. 277 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, they were shorter back then, I think. 278 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Everything you mentioned there is possible 279 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: that limestone is pretty soft as stone goes, and the 280 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: flint tools that they had back then could have been 281 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: used to do something like this. And depending on who 282 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: you talk to, some people will say, like, you know, 283 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: it may have taken a few hundred very determined people 284 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: to move these things. Other people Olivia found this one 285 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: guy and archaeologist named Edward Banning from the University of 286 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: Toronto that said, nah, give me, give me twenty crown men, 287 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: and I could do this even without rollers. 288 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Watch, yeah, no one ever called us bluff. Should 289 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: we take a break yeah, let's take a break. 290 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: All right, great setup, everyone's on the edge of their 291 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: limestone seat and we'll be right. 292 00:15:53,840 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: Back, okay, Chuck. So one of the things that I 293 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier is that these people not only created these 294 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: huge pillars and walls and enclosures, they also put they 295 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: carved them. There's a lot of symbols on this stuff, 296 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: and essentially they're pictograms like they're symbols that directly represent 297 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: the thing they are. There's not any encoded meaning to it, 298 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: like if it's a bird, it's supposed to be a bird. 299 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of really readable symbols, like they're 300 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: it's not like, wow, it's photo realistic, but you can 301 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: clearly see this is a bird, this is a gazelle, 302 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: this is a fox, this is a scorpion. And they 303 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: started to notice that some of the enclosures were essentially 304 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: dedicated to one kind of animal. But the biggest enclosure 305 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: enclosure D was there's a bunch of different animals on 306 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: the like scratched or carved into the different kind of 307 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: pillars and walls and everything, And there's a lot of 308 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: interpretation just in that stuff alone. 309 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, like the ones where it's just like nothing, 310 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: but Foxes. They think could have been a specific clan 311 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: because it was part of the clan system, like clan 312 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: of the cave Bear, it would have carved a bunch 313 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: of cave bears. So if it was a fox clan, 314 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: they may have just carved foxes. But it might make 315 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: sense that the biggest one because you know, there's still 316 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: you know, as we pointed out, guessing as to what 317 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: even was going on and what all this stuff was 318 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: used for and what it all meant. So I think 319 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: it just sort of makes sense that maybe the biggest 320 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: one was maybe where groupings of clans came, so they 321 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: were all represented by their favorite football pretty much. 322 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the things also that gave away that 323 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 2: fox enclosure is that one of the carvings says foxes 324 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: rule and it's foxz, So clearly they were pretty yeah, exactly. 325 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: So those pillars too, sixteen feet five and a half 326 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: meter ten ton pillars at the largest if you look 327 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: at them, they actually represent people, but they represent like 328 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: a really non descript type of person. 329 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: Yea. 330 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 2: So these are T shaped pillars. So at first I 331 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 2: just assume, well, that's like you know, shoulders, and then 332 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: like the head's carved into the middle of the shoulders. Wrong. 333 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: The tea itself is actually the head viewed from the side, 334 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 2: so that when you look at the narrow ends on 335 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 2: each side of that top of the tee, that's the 336 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: face in the back of the head. I thought that 337 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: was a really strange artistic decision. 338 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. The other thing too, is I don't 339 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: think we mentioned that kind of One of the first 340 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: theories was that, or maybe we did, that it was 341 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: kind of ritual based, because I think when they find 342 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: anything from this time, they think, well, this wasn't a 343 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: permanent settlement because they didn't have those, so this was 344 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: just a place where they did rituals and maybe sacrifices 345 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: or whatever, prayed to whatever God. They did find things 346 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: like masks that maybe were ceremonial that at least lent 347 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: itself to the idea that that could have been going 348 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: on there. They did find some other images that weren't 349 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: as straightforward as the sort of clear ones that you described, 350 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: like birds with human legs, and they speculate that could 351 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: have been like maybe people in costume at a ritual 352 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: or a rite that we're displaying here in this little story, 353 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: and the fun part about all of this is that 354 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: they seem to have been drinking beer at the time, 355 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: because there were beer brewing vats nearby. 356 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: Like huge fats. It could brew tens and tens of 357 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: gallons at a time, and that supports this idea that 358 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 2: this was a ritual place. I mean, just the fact 359 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 2: that they went to the trouble of making this, and 360 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: then the fact that they added these symbols to these 361 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 2: huge monolists that they raised, and then the fact that 362 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 2: there was beer strongly supports that they were essentially partying 363 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 2: in one way or another at Go Beckley Tepee. Right. 364 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: But in addition to that, in those very obvious pictograms 365 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 2: or pictographs, there's also some straight up symbols that are 366 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: not immediately obvious that does suggest that there was meaning 367 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 2: and coded in it, which would make it writing. There's 368 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 2: a what looks like a capital ie that keeps popping 369 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 2: up here. There. There's also a capital H that's usually 370 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: associated with the capital ie, and they think it's possible 371 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: that represented the summer solstice in the winter solstice or 372 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: day and night because it's just used so repeatedly. One 373 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 2: of the other reasons they think that is a guy 374 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 2: named Martin Sweatman, who's an engineering researcher from the University 375 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 2: of Edinburgh. He he analyzed one of the one of 376 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: the pillars and there's a bunch of different markings on them, 377 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 2: and he interpreted them as essentially a calendar that not 378 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: only you could track the year with, but he took 379 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 2: it to be like a timestamp for a potential common 380 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 2: impact that allegedly set off the younger driest mini ice age. 381 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 2: So if that's true, that means that they were proto 382 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 2: writing seven thousand years before the Sumerians came up with 383 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: the what's considered the first alphabet seven thousand years Yeah. 384 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: And then in addition to that, they they were able 385 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 2: to track the procession of Earth, that they were able 386 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 2: to account for the wobble that changes the time and 387 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: days throughout the year enough that they could create a 388 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: lunar calendar, and they supposedly, if this actually is a 389 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 2: time stamp, they were able to date things that were 390 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 2: like major celestial events like meteor showers or again a 391 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 2: potential commet strike. 392 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is like, I mean, I guess we'll 393 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: talk about the significance of calendars in a couple of 394 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: ways here and later. But one thing to think about 395 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: is like, if you're hunter gatherers and you're not around 396 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: very long, like, what do you need a twelve month calendar? For? 397 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: Another way of looking at it, and this kind of 398 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: kind of lends itself to some of the later theories 399 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: is that, well, maybe we'll hold on to that. That'll 400 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 1: be a nice little teaser. 401 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: Actually even I'm teased, but we. 402 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: Can talk about this right now, which is the fact 403 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: that they found remnants of bones and wild plants and 404 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: things that pretty much clearly indicate that they had been 405 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: butchered and cooked. There mostly gazelle, about sixty percent were gazelle, 406 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: but they also add sheep and deer and wild boar 407 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: and birds like geese and ducks and cranes and things 408 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: like that, So they were it seems like they were 409 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: eating and drinking pretty well here they were. 410 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 2: This also supports Chuck because if they were not farmers 411 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 2: and they were just hunter gatherers who would come to 412 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: this area, you know, occasionally, and they were making beer, 413 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: that supports that idea that we've talked about before that 414 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 2: bread was actually invented as a portable beer starter. 415 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because of that, Old Jim. 416 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 2: This says that beer came before farming, then if this 417 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 2: is what's going on here, for interpreting this correctly, so 418 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: that is very significant too. The bones and the plants 419 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: that they found at the site are all wild and 420 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 2: that strongly suggests to researchers, not just us, that these 421 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 2: were these were hunter gathers. They weren't farmers at all. 422 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 2: There was no sign of domesticated animal bones. And even more, 423 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 2: if you look at all of the animals on any 424 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: of the engravings or carvings or sculptures, they are all 425 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: wild animals too. There's not a single sheep or pig 426 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: or anything like that, any domesticated animal to be found, 427 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 2: Like even the pig is the wild boars. They're just 428 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: all wild animals. And that will become a little more 429 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: significant in a second. 430 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. The other thing too we didn't mention is that 431 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: lends itself to the idea that things were still very transient. 432 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: Was they didn't find things that you normally find, at 433 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: least at this point as a permanent settlement, like trash, 434 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: like big buried mounds of trash, or any indication that 435 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: there were homes there, or like a hearth where someone 436 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: might have burned a fire repeatedly over and over in 437 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: the same home like place. So they're not finding that stuff, 438 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: they're finding other things that kind of contradict that you 439 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: mention those human like carvings. There were other ones that 440 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: had like pretty clear symbolism of death, like a fully 441 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: carved human sculpture where they intentionally cut off the head. 442 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: So it wasn't just like, you know, hey, look it's 443 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: a person without a head. They would carve it into 444 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: a person, cut off the head, and then place that 445 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: head somewhere else. That was significant to them, clearly symbolization, symbolization, 446 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: symbolizing something. Yeah. 447 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah. So you put all that stuff together, and 448 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 2: what you have is this hypothesis that Klaus Schmidt came 449 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: up with. Remember he's the guy who essentially discovered this 450 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 2: place and kept going until twenty fourteen. His hypothesis was this, 451 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 2: because there's no evidence of permanent habitation, right like you 452 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: were saying, because all of this stuff is wild game 453 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 2: and wild plants that's left over, and because these structures 454 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 2: don't appear to ever have been roofed, like these enclosures 455 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 2: were always open air. You put all that together, this 456 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: was not a permanent settlement. It was a settlement that 457 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 2: was created for religious purposes or spiritual purposes or something 458 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: like that, symbolic purposes by hunter gatherer groups, and every year, 459 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 2: a couple of years or whenever, a bunch of them 460 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 2: from all around the area would come together and they 461 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 2: would party, they would eat, they would drink a bunch 462 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 2: of beer, and they would carve out these pillars and 463 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: raise them. And then weirdly, Schmid also added, they would 464 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 2: fill these enclosures in with rubble ceremonially, because when they 465 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 2: discovered them, all the enclosures were well filled in with rubble. 466 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: So he interpreted that to mean that that was part 467 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: of this ceremony. They would cover one up and then 468 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: they'd build another one on top. 469 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: He said it was Coachella. 470 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 2: Do they fill things in with rubble at Coachella? 471 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: No, of course not. The Indio Polo grounds are very nice, actually, 472 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: But he did sort of say, like, hey, this is 473 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that we think they just met 474 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: here occasionally over decades, maybe even hundreds of years. Maybe 475 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: these rituals sort of evolved over time to maybe, you know, 476 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: because there's clear sort of death symbolism in places to 477 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: honor people that were important to the community maybe help 478 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 1: establish their identity somewhat as wandering tribes. And that's what 479 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: he thought, you know, one of the keys to this 480 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: whole thing, Yeah, was that to do something like this, 481 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: they would have had to had you know, even if 482 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: they were hunters and gatherers, they had to have had 483 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people there that stayed there for long 484 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: enough time to get this done. 485 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: Yes, and that over time, over those decades or centuries, 486 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: it just attracted more and more and more people to 487 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 2: the area. And so rather than the monumental structures and 488 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: religion arising from farming, Klaus Schmidt said, coming together to 489 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 2: create this religious structure actually essentially trap people in the 490 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 2: area where they became farmers. We had it totally backwards. 491 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: That was Schmidt's hypothesis. 492 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like a geological geological chicken or the 493 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: egg or I guess archaeological chicken or the egg. 494 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: Yes, but the chicken came first. 495 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. 496 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 2: You know, that's the answer to that question. 497 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we've covered it. 498 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: Okay, we're not going to again. I'll tell you that. 499 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: No. Heck no, why reach read something? 500 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: So do you want to take another breaker? Is it 501 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: too soon? 502 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: Well, let's take a break right after this, because there 503 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: was one other thing that we should point out is 504 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: some of the other things sort of supporting this idea 505 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: of Schmidt was they didn't see a water source anywhere, 506 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: which wouldn't be a good place for people to permanently be. 507 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: And what else. I already mentioned the garbage dumps and 508 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,239 Speaker 1: the lack of houses, so I guess the only thing 509 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: I didn't mention was the water source. 510 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: Right. The thing is Klaus Schmidt was I think he 511 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 2: formed this hypothesis, you know, within a couple of years 512 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: of starting excavation, and it held up at least until 513 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 2: his death. But after his death, some new evidence came 514 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: to light that caused people to go back and re 515 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: look at some of the original evidence too, or some 516 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: of the original artifacts and data, and they were like, 517 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: we're not quite sure Klaus Schmidt had it right. And 518 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 2: we'll talk about what they came up with the new 519 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: hypothesis right after this. 520 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: One person we need to shout out besides Olivia is 521 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: a journalist named Andrew Curry. By the way, he's kind 522 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: of the guy that has invested He's kind of like 523 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: the Schmidt on the journalism side. For decades and decades, 524 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 1: this guy's been writing about most of the popular stories 525 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: about the Gibilecki, Giblic Giblick, Glavin, the Schenectady Tepe, the 526 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: big shout out, big shout out there. But before we 527 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: broke you mentioned new ideas coming along post Schmidt. In 528 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, his successor Won Lee Claire of the German 529 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: Archaeological Institute or the DAI. They built a German shorthand 530 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: for that, they constructed a big old canopy over the 531 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: whole thing so they could dig more, because I don't 532 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: think we mentioned for many, many years they were digging 533 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: in the spring and fall because summer was too hot, 534 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: winter was too wet. 535 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, just four months a year, right, Yeah. 536 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: So they could dig dig more with this big canopy 537 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,479 Speaker 1: over it, shielding from the sun and rain and in 538 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: order to build I mean, this is kind of one 539 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: of those dumb luck kind of things that they probably 540 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: would have gotten to eventually, but it expedited the situation 541 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: when they realized to make this big canopy not just 542 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: like a pop up with sandbags, They needed to like 543 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: root this thing into the ground. So they dug down 544 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: deeper than they ever had before to make supports and 545 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: had some interesting fines down there. 546 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just not deeper than anyone in the world 547 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: ever had before, just in this area. Right. 548 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, did you think I mean they take the 549 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: dug the defice hole ever. 550 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, they just kept going. They're like, well, we're already 551 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: this far, we might as well set a record. 552 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: Wow. 553 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: They so they found they were able to take samples 554 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: from those pillar holes. I think they went down even 555 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: below the lowest layer they could possibly find. So when 556 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: they took those samples, they were like, oh, here's all 557 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: the stuff that Klaus Schmidt based his hypothesis on. Because 558 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 2: they were missing garbage dumps, hearts, evidence of homes. We 559 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 2: found a cistern eventually, like a thirty foot diameter cistern 560 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: that held a bunch of rain water, all the stuff 561 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 2: you would need to support a permanent settlement. 562 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't decide. When I read this part of 563 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: the story, I immediately was like, oh, no, Like I 564 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: wonder if because Schmid died a few years earlier, I 565 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: wondered if he because at first, off, I'm glad that 566 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: he wasn't around to see that because it was kind 567 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: of proved him wrong. But then I thought Now, Schmidt 568 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: seems like the kind of guy that would have like 569 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: loved knowing that he was wrong. Well, maybe not loved it, 570 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: but loved knowing that they were on the right track 571 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: to getting the accurate picture there. 572 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 2: So that's funny. I interpreted him differently. I imagined him 573 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: showing up at Lee Claire's tent in the middle of 574 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 2: the night as a ghost, going, Lee, how could you 575 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 2: betray me? 576 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: Oh? 577 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 2: Maybe I think that actually happened too. I saw it 578 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 2: on ancient aliens. 579 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: Oh okay, perfect. 580 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 2: So so here's the new hypothesis. They're like, okay, Kaus, 581 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: he was working with what he had to work with 582 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 2: at the time. But now that we have all this 583 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: other stuff, what we realize is that part of this 584 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,959 Speaker 2: site might have actually been permanently occupied by some people, 585 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that it wasn't also like a 586 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 2: ritual site, like clearly it was. This is not just 587 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 2: how people built houses back then. People weren't even supposed 588 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 2: to build these kind of complexes back then. One of 589 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: the things that they're like, Okay, Klaus definitely got this 590 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 2: wrong was the idea that part of the rituals were 591 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 2: filling these enclosures in with rubble and then starting a 592 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 2: new one on top. Somebody noticed that if you look uphill, 593 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: the that are on the uphill side of the enclosure 594 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 2: are usually damaged, whereas the walls opposite are fine, which 595 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: strongly suggests landslide damage. There's also a lot of earthquakes 596 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 2: in that area, so they're like, actually, we think that 597 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: this stuff just kept getting destroyed. But the site was 598 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: so important that for thirteen hundred years after an earthquake 599 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: came through, they would come and rebuild, Like that's how 600 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 2: important the. 601 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: Site was to them. Yeah, and this is where it 602 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: gets super interesting to me. Claire and some other people, 603 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: some of her colleagues and others thought hey, maybe what 604 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: this was was something created because agriculture and people settling 605 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: down may have already been happening, and this was sort 606 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: of created as part of the backlash against that. So 607 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,399 Speaker 1: people were domesticating plants and animals nearby, and they were 608 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: still like, no, we want to be hunter gatherers, but 609 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: we want to have this place maybe where we where 610 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: we come and meet seasonally. 611 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, or this is where we live. Like we're like, 612 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 2: this is our this is our habit our settlement, but 613 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 2: we're not going to farm. We're still going to you. 614 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: Know, hunt and gather exactly. 615 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 2: And one interpretation by a guy named Thomas Zimmerman, who 616 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 2: is an archaeologist from bill Kent University, he sees this 617 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 2: as a place that was populated by staunchly conservative, male 618 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 2: dominated population, and there's a lot of stuff to support that. Right. So, 619 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 2: first of all, if you have a group of people 620 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: who are railing against these new sweeping changes to society 621 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 2: that's going in ways, they don't like it, and they're 622 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: they're going against that, that automatically makes them conservative. And 623 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 2: then also if you look around at the iconography and imagery, 624 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 2: it is very male centric. There's a lot of foulacies 625 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 2: sticking up. There's all of the figures that are depicted 626 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 2: are men. I read that wherever a wild animal that's 627 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: carved into one of the pillars is gendered, it's invariably male, 628 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 2: and it makes a lot of sense. And then simultaneously 629 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: Thomas Zimmerman is like, I think that this was this 630 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 2: was meant to be a place of It was kind 631 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 2: of agro place where like you would come and like 632 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 2: put some young hunters through their scary first rights. Like 633 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 2: it was not a place of peace. It's a if 634 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 2: you look at most of the animals, they're snarling, they're dangerous. 635 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 2: This is not it is not meant to be a 636 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 2: calm place. And Thomas Zimmerman, I hope he can unwind 637 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 2: one day, right for his sake and the sake of 638 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 2: people around him. 639 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, he kind of described it as I don't know, 640 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: like the birthplace of m M A and like, you know, 641 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: kind of a lot of stuff we're seeing in the 642 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: news today. 643 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, the birthplace of people who watch ancient aliens. 644 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. Here's the thing, though, we still don't 645 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: know so much. I believe they're what like over fifty 646 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: percent of it has still not been excavated. 647 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 2: Oh no, ninety to ninety five percent is unexcavated. 648 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: Oh I thought that was just ninety percent was underground 649 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: and they had been doing stuff underground now. 650 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 2: So yeah, so it's kind of confusing, and maybe you're right. 651 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 2: But what I saw is that the whole site is 652 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 2: ninety to ninety five percent unexcavated, but that the enclosures 653 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 2: that they've been able to find, only half of them 654 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 2: are even partially excavated. So they know that there's enclosures 655 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 2: down there, they just haven't gotten to them yet. 656 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I like this last theory in twenty 657 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: twenty one. That was a book called The Dawn of 658 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: Everything by an anthropologist and an archaeologist David Graeber and 659 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: David wind Grow, respectively, and they said, all right, here's 660 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: what we think is that maybe it was just a 661 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: non aggricate cultural society, and maybe they were just a 662 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: lot more diverse than we thought they were. We kind 663 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: of had this locked in idea that everyone was like this, 664 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: and then everyone was like this, and they were like, 665 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: maybe there was just a lot more overlap and sort 666 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: of a spectrum of rituals and behaviors and things that 667 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: people did, and it's just not so clear that things 668 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: were like this until they stopped and then they were 669 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: like this. 670 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, And now I remember I got off track earlier 671 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 2: when I was talking about the pre Pottery Neolithic group 672 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 2: that I have seen this era of people and earlier 673 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 2: human beings their culture essentially likened to that of like 674 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 2: bonobos or chimps. That that's like the level of like 675 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:52,919 Speaker 2: introspection or material culture or contributions that they would make 676 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 2: that they were that backwards. And yeah, Graybor and Weingar 677 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 2: are like, we got this all wrong. And so one 678 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 2: of the things, the ways that Gebeckley Teppe ties into 679 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 2: this is those the two Davids, that's what I call them. 680 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 681 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 2: They looked at some current hunter gatherer groups, which are 682 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:20,879 Speaker 2: obviously not perfect analogies, but what they found is that 683 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 2: some groups have hierarchical structures during some parts of the 684 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 2: year where they're sedentary, and then in other parts of 685 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 2: the year where not times of plenty where you have 686 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 2: to like spread out and go find food, they break 687 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 2: up into smaller bands of hunter gatherers, and they suspect 688 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 2: that Gebecley Teppe was a place where they all came 689 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,359 Speaker 2: together again and enjoyed times of plenty, like where there 690 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 2: are tons of gazelles to hunt, lots of nuts and 691 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 2: grains and stuff just for the picking, and that they 692 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 2: didn't have to farm, but that they were capable of 693 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 2: being sedentary while they were also hunter gatherers for the 694 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 2: other part of the year. 695 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and not only capable of being sedentary, but capable 696 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: of having a fairly complex society as they settled for 697 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: that season, you know, before they went out. And you know, 698 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: I love this idea because you picture them just sort 699 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: of barely surviving and moving on until they find better 700 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 1: places to hunt or a source of water, whereas this 701 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: posit's just a just sort of a a better way 702 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: of life that anyone thought they lived to such that 703 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 1: they could be like, Hey, we're going to brew beer 704 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,280 Speaker 1: and we're going to party and we're gonna have fun 705 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: because you know, we're all doing pretty well out here. 706 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 1: Guys look around, let's like enjoy this season of settlement, 707 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: I guess. 708 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, or plenty, right, Yeah, And there's a lot of 709 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 2: beasting seasons still today in human culture around this time 710 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 2: of year, around late fall, like after the Hord, say, 711 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 2: even through whether exactly and I don't know if it 712 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 2: was from the two David's or somebody interpreting their work, 713 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 2: but they were saying, there's a really good chance or 714 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 2: at least a chance that our holiday seasons, right, is 715 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 2: an ancient or remnant of that ancient seasonality where we 716 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 2: would come together and share in times of plenty and 717 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 2: then when you know, throughout the rest of the year, 718 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 2: we'd spread out and go do our own thing. But 719 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 2: during those times, community is emphasized, family is emphasized, coming 720 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 2: together is all very much emphasized during that time of year, 721 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 2: and they wonder if that's just a like, we're just 722 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,959 Speaker 2: unaware that that is a really ancient tradition that we're 723 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: taking part in. Still, we just kind of transmuted into 724 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 2: our own thing. 725 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,399 Speaker 1: You know. It really missed a great opportunity for a deep, 726 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: deep cut what David and David I could have said. 727 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: David and David looked around and they were like, hey, 728 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: welcome to the Boomtown. 729 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 2: What is that? 730 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: It's the only hit song by David and David. 731 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 2: What's Welcome to the Boomtown? 732 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: The only hit song by David and David. 733 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's hear some of it sing it. Sing 734 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 2: it like Sammy Davis. 735 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 3: Oh, I said, welcome babe, Welcome to the boom town. Man, 736 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 3: all those what makes such a succulent sound? 737 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the boom Town. 738 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 2: I half suspect you're making this up as you go along. 739 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: It was a great, great one hit wonder from back 740 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: in the day by. 741 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 2: David and David. 742 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: David and David, that's would have been talking about this 743 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: all time, And now it makes sense that you never 744 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: knew what I was talking about time I did. 745 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 2: It's still a good joke just because I got you 746 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 2: to sing like Sammy Davis Junior. 747 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: We all appreciate that it's a great song. It really is, So. 748 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go listen to that. But first, there were 749 00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 2: just a couple of more things I wanted to say 750 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 2: about this, the David and David interpretation of how people 751 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 2: were way more complex than we give them credit for 752 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 2: in the past. One of the things they point to 753 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,439 Speaker 2: her ancient burials like twenty six thirty thousand years old, 754 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 2: where there's like grave goods and people and beaded headdresses, 755 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 2: like clearly being treated differently than other people would have 756 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 2: been buried. So obviously are hierarchical structures, like maybe they 757 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 2: were mystics or shaman or something like that. And then 758 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 2: there was another interpretation of Beckley Tepe itself that I 759 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 2: thought was worth mentioning by archaeologists Anna Fagan from the 760 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 2: University of Melbourne, and she was like, sill your role, 761 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 2: Thomas Zimmerman. I actually think that all these depictions of 762 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:50,919 Speaker 2: death and mayhem and scary animals is actually symbolic of 763 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 2: life and death and regeneration. And she makes some pretty 764 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 2: good points, and I like her interpretation a little more 765 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 2: because it doesn't alter anything else. This is still a 766 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 2: hunter gathered tribe and they could still even be railing 767 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 2: against farming. But that doesn't mean that they have to 768 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 2: be like agro and and you know, want to just 769 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 2: kill everybody essentially. 770 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. 771 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,240 Speaker 2: I do too. Let's just keep talking about Black Beckley 772 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:19,320 Speaker 2: Teppie forever. 773 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 1: It's a good one. And but now all I can 774 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 1: think about is getting that theory officially named the Welcome 775 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: to the Boomtown theory. Okay, I think that's because it 776 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 1: fits in every way. 777 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, it really does. Chuck. I think if 778 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 2: the two David's here this, they're going to be into that. 779 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: You remember that song, Miss Christina drives a non full four. 780 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: No I have the first line. 781 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 2: No idea what you're talking about. 782 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: Well, I just sad it to you. It's a great song. 783 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 2: Okay, thanks man. Well, since Chuck's on me a song, 784 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 2: obviously he's just triggered listener name. 785 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: That's right. This is from Siara and it's about the 786 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: Ford Motor Company because her works there as a Michigander. Hey, guys, 787 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: one thing I thought I'd mentioned about that is you 788 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: mentioned that the Ford Motor Company has been around since 789 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: nineteen oh three and is still standing. But I think 790 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: one of the coolest things about our company is that 791 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: the what was it, the Rouge site. Yeah, yeah, the 792 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: Rouge River site that you also mentioned in the episode 793 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: is still standing and today builds f one fifties. In 794 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 1: its history, the Rouge has built the Model B, the Mercury, 795 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,719 Speaker 1: the Thunderbird, and multiple generations of the Mustang. The site 796 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: itself has so much history in the henry Ford Museum 797 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: that the henry Ford Museum offers a Rouge Factory tour 798 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 1: that actually takes you into one of the manufacturing buildings 799 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: of the site to see the assembly line from a 800 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: set of mezzanines. One last thing you didn't mention was 801 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,919 Speaker 1: that he was a supporter of prohibition, and it always 802 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,760 Speaker 1: reminds me of this funny quote from him. If Booze 803 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: ever comes back to the United States, I am through 804 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: with manufacturing. I wouldn't be interested in putting automobiles into 805 00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: the hands of a generation soggy with drink. Thanks for 806 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,880 Speaker 1: all the knowledge that you share in keeping me company 807 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: on my compute, and that is from CR. 808 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 2: Thanks CR. That's awesome. We appreciate all the extra info 809 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 2: and if you want to be like CRRA and show 810 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 2: off your knowledge of extra info by sharing it with us, 811 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 2: we would love that. Just send it off to stuff 812 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 2: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 813 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 814 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 815 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,280 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.