1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, Wherever 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode as they break 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: down the psychology of our twenties. Today, we're going to 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: talk about love. Love. Meeting someone new being obsessed with 10 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: them is honestly one of the best feelings that I 11 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: think we can experience. There is something special about those 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: early days that is just so exciting and addictive. It 13 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: feels like the honeymoon period is going to last forever, 14 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: and then obviously at some stage real life kind of 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: sets back in or for some of us, that initial 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: craziness is really really terrifying. It's really scary to feel 17 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: like this person who we may love might actually be 18 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: a source of fear for us, not because they are unsafe, 19 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: but because what we are experiencing for the first time 20 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: is healthy love, and that healthy love feels like boredom. 21 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: It can cause us to call into question all of 22 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: these different things whether this person is actually right for us, 23 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: and I really want to break that down today and 24 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: that big question of why does healthy love sometimes feel boring? 25 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: And does this sense of boredom truly mean that this 26 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: person is not right for you or is it just 27 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: your relationship anxiety popping up at the worst time. We 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: are joined by the brilliant Sarah Yudkin for this epid 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: episode from You Love and You Learn. I'm so excited 30 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: to have her on because she speaks so much about 31 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: relationship anxiety and the ways that it gets in our 32 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: way of finding really fulfilling love and relationships. So Sarah, welcome, 33 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. 34 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk about this. 35 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: I feel like I can talk about it all day, 36 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: so buckle up. 37 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: My goodness, I know. Well, it's so interesting because you 38 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: listen to an episode that we did around relationship anxiety 39 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: with Katie and you were like, oh, my goodness, this 40 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 1: sounds exactly like what I talk about in my practice, 41 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: and it's really not spoken about that much. I don't 42 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: think I even really came across it until I got 43 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: into my most recent relationship and was like, why is 44 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: this suddenly so hard yet so easy? Like I feel 45 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: like that is such a much more common experience than 46 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: we know before I jump into it, though I feel 47 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: like I'm just jumping the gun cat. Are you able 48 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: to briefly introduce yourself tell us about who you are 49 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: about your work? 50 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. So I'm Sarah and I help people 51 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: who are in healthy, loving relationships. I always give that 52 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: disclaimer right from the jump that we're not talking about 53 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: abuse here, but I help people who are in healthy, 54 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: loving relationships, but also who have anxiety that's holding them back. 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: And the reason why I fell into this work is 56 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: because my parents got a divorce actually when I was 57 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: in my twenties, and at the time, I kind of 58 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: stuffed it down and was like, it's okay, I get 59 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: why they did it. They're better off, they're happier, and 60 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: I thought that I didn't necessarily care that much. I 61 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: was like, it is what it is. But when I 62 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: found myself in a very safe, loving relationship, I very 63 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 2: quickly realized that the fear of divorce kind of was 64 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: looming in the background, and right when things started getting 65 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: serious with now my fiance, but at the time my boyfriend, 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: I was like, what if I got a divorce? How 67 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: do I know I'm not going to get a divorce? 68 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: How do I pick the perfect person and make sure 69 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: that he has no red flags and that everything is 70 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: exactly what I'm envisioning in order to make sure that 71 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 2: this doesn't happen. And I realized that it did affect 72 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: me a lot more than I thought at the time, 73 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 2: and maybe I hadn't fully processed the fears around love 74 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 2: and relationships, and so I just became so fascinated by it. 75 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: And now I help others through their journey with that. 76 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's actually congratulations on your engagement as well. 77 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: That is so beautiful. And I think a story that 78 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: is so much more commonplace than we think, Like there 79 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: were so many small things in our past, in our childhood's, 80 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: even in our adolescents in our twenties that really shape 81 00:04:55,400 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: how we approach and see love. And I think you 82 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: can experience anxiety in any area of your life in 83 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: which there's fear, any area of your life in which 84 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: you have expectations or false salam So can you kind 85 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: of explain what relationship anxiety actually is, what kind of 86 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: sets it apart from what we would typically see anxiety as. 87 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: Being yeah, definitely. So my take is that there's kind 88 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: of like a I don't even like the word normal, 89 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 2: but I'm just going to use it here for this case. 90 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 2: Is like, I think there's a normal amount of questions 91 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: that could come up when you're committing to someone for 92 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: the rest of your life, like oh, is this someone 93 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: I want to be with or you know, kind of 94 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: just like assessing the situation, whereas relationship anxiety takes it 95 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: up a notch to a whole nother level, and a 96 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: question such as is my partner funny enough? Can turn 97 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: into a three week spiral because then it's not only 98 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: are they funny enough, but oh my gosh, I'm never 99 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: going to laugh in my life, and I'm going to 100 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: wake up one day and realize that I could have 101 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: married this other person that was funnier. And so relationship 102 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: anxiety is doubt about your healthy relationship. And again I 103 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: say the word healthy because if you're having anxiety because 104 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: you're being mistreated, then that's not what we're talking about here. 105 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: But it's really taking up a notch the normal questioning 106 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: or doubts that might come up in a relationship, and 107 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: it can come in the form of physical symptoms like 108 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 2: your chest titans, you have lurching stomach, when you think 109 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: about the future, you feel maybe like warm or sweaty 110 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: sometimes when you're trying to kind of sort out how 111 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: to move forward in your relationship. Or it can come 112 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: in the more mental symptoms like overthinking, waking up and 113 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: kind of starting to initially ask questions about your relationship, 114 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: or getting home after spending time with your partner and 115 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: kind of fact checking everything and having this microscope of 116 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: was that fun enough, did I feel good enough? All 117 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: of that. So that's a little bit more about it, 118 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: but I'm happy to explain anything else as far as 119 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: how it comes up to. 120 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: It's really interesting because all of those I don't know 121 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: if there's symptoms, but all of those, let's just call 122 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: them feelings or indicators of relationship. Anxiety feel a lot 123 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: like justified anxiety, feel a lot like not so much 124 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: justified anxiety, but justified fears, right Like. I think the 125 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: thing about anxiety of any form, but particular relation, particularly 126 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: relationship with anxiety, is that there is it's very difficult 127 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: to distinguish between is this actually a real fear or 128 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: is this a false alarm? And if I ignore what 129 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: is a real fear, what are the consequences of that 130 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: going to be? So I think that that hypervigilance also 131 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: comes from like a place of perfectionism as well of 132 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: like I want to ensure that I make no mistakes 133 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to this, that I'm not overlooking anything 134 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: that could potentially harm me. And then I think it 135 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: comes down to inevitably, what is self sabotage? Where because 136 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: you are so hyper vigilant over every single minute detail 137 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: of your relationship, you don't actually give someone's space to 138 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: be imperfect or to be authentic, or to maybe do 139 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: things that you don't totally love and adore but which 140 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: are part of like outquirks. Do you think that relationship 141 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: anxiety causes us to self sabotage a lot? 142 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 2: Definitely? Definitely. And I want to circle back to one 143 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 2: thing you just said, which is that it can be 144 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: really hard to parse out what is your anxiety versus 145 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: what is your fear? And I just want to remind 146 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: people that love and relationships have a lot of risk 147 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: associated with them. Right, So, no matter how happy you 148 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: are in the relationship, or no matter how safe or 149 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: no matter how steady the relationship is, we don't get guarantees, right, 150 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 2: We don't know what's going to happen in the future, 151 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of potential loss or you know, 152 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: people have fear of abandonment, fear of failure, Like what 153 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: does it mean if this doesn't work out and I 154 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: put all this energy into it? What if I lose 155 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: myself or sacrifice part of myself in this relationship. There's 156 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: so many fears that can come up, and so I 157 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: just want to normalize the fact that if love, for 158 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: whatever reason feels scary or intimidating to you, that that 159 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: is okay, and that is valid and it's very understandable. 160 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: And so to the point then about self sabotage. If 161 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: love hasn't felt safe to you because of maybe a 162 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: relationship you had with a parent or a caretaker, or 163 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: maybe it was seeing your parents split up or argue 164 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: all the time or never argue, and so you put 165 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: pressure on yourself never to do that, or maybe you 166 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 2: had a past relationship that didn't work, even a past friendship, 167 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: Like there can be so many reasons why love hasn't 168 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: felt safe to us, And then we can pay our 169 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: love with social media and seeing kind of like the 170 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: perfectionism of that, and so then we start, to your point, 171 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: adding all of that perfectionism on top of the fear, 172 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: and so it can be really hard to suss everything out. 173 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: And that's why I think we end up unintentionally, of course, 174 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 2: self sabotaging, because it feels overwhelming, it feels scary, it 175 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: feels like we have to get it right. And so 176 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: if there's any evidence that this isn't right, I'm getting 177 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 2: the itic this person clearly doesn't understand me, they're clearly 178 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: not my soulmate, then we can put that block up 179 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: and be like, well, they're clearly on it, So I 180 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 2: might as well just kind of put this to a 181 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: stop and either behave in a way that they end it, 182 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 2: or I should just end. 183 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: So you made a really good point about if you 184 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: perhaps haven't had any good role models for what love 185 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: maybe should look like, healthy love, and also if you've 186 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: had like a sequence of terrible relationships that have taught 187 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: you the version of love that you should not be 188 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: aspiring to right people who have belittled you, people who 189 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: have neglected you in some way, who have not treated 190 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: you with respect, who have just been perhaps quite cruel 191 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: or quite unaligned with who you are. After those experiences, 192 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: I think we begin to question what love actually is 193 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: and we get a little bit confused about what it 194 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: looks like. How can we actually tell what healthy love is? 195 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: How can we tell when it is actually safe? 196 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: It's a great question, and I feel like, you know, 197 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: my answer might not be the only answer, right because 198 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: love is such a vague concept. But I think when 199 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: it comes to you, especially moving away from an unhealthy 200 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: love into a healthy love, what we're looking for is 201 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: feeling like both people or all the people involved, can 202 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: feel safe to be who they are, and that there's 203 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: doesn't have to be one hundred percent equal, but like 204 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 2: both people are showing up and giving energy to the love. 205 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 2: And I think healthy love is about giving and receiving 206 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: versus what can I get from this or only what 207 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 2: can I give where you're not getting anything back, And 208 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 2: that's kind of like at a very fundamental level. But 209 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: I also think that love, and this is a new 210 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 2: belief that I had to form over the last few 211 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 2: years that felt really helpful for me, is that love 212 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: is not just a feeling. Love is a verb, Love 213 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: is an action, Love is a practice. And there's this 214 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: really beautiful quote I believe it was from Paolo Coachello, 215 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: who wrote The Alchemist, but he said something along the 216 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: lines of like, you can only find love through the 217 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: act of loving. And that feels really good to me, 218 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 2: because even if I'm not in a fully loving mood, 219 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: I know I can act loving. And it doesn't mean 220 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: that like you're necessarily prote but it's more of like 221 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: taking the action towards someone you love or towards something 222 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: you love, and then kind of generating it versus just 223 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: sitting there waiting for it to fall into your lap 224 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 2: or waiting for your partner to bring you the flowers 225 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 2: for you to feel love. If that makes. 226 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: Sense, It makes so much sense because I do think 227 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: that this is also a belief that I've had, like 228 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: the older that I've gotten, which is that like it 229 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: should be intentional, like love should be intentional. The same 230 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: way that you don't love your hobbies all the time 231 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: or you don't love your like passion all the time, 232 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: there are going to be moments where you do need 233 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: to actually be like an active player. And I think 234 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: the reason why we treat love sometimes like that is 235 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: because we're used to thinking of love as like this 236 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: passive thing that we fall into. We think of love 237 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: as this like outside emotion that comes to us and 238 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: fills us up, and that there's nothing we can really 239 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: do to change that. I think it's because of like 240 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: a lot of those narratives around love being like destined 241 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: or like intertwined with fate and all of these like 242 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: very magical, beautiful principles, but it takes away human agency sometimes, 243 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: and it takes away the sense that like, hey, you know, 244 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: like I can actually I actually have a say in this, 245 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: I have a say in like how I want to 246 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: be in this relationship, in this situation. And then there's 247 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: another component of this that I think I really want 248 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: to hear your opinion on, which is that we can 249 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: know what healthy love should look like, but for some 250 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: of that, for some of us, it can actually be 251 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: quite uncomfortable. So even if we know that like healthy 252 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: love should feel easy, healthy love should feel peaceful, it 253 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: also sometimes feels boring. And this is something that I 254 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: hear all the time, which is I feel like I 255 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: found the one, but it feels boring. I'm worried about 256 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: it becoming boring. The longer I'm with this person. I'm 257 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: worried that, like I didn't have this really intense spot, 258 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: there wasn't this chase. What does that mean for my relationship? 259 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: Can you kind of like why do you think we 260 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: confuse safe with boring? 261 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 2: So many reasons? Well, one thing that's kind of unrelated 262 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 2: to love, but I'm going to bring into this conversation 263 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: right from the jump is if you think about TikTok 264 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: or Instagram reels, they've become so popular and so addicting 265 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: in the last few years, especially because you're scrolling and 266 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: scrolling and scrolling and you don't know what you're gonna get. 267 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: Every new thing is it's like you have this anticipation, right, 268 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 2: And that's what dopamine is about. It's the molecule of anticipation. 269 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: So when you're in the thrill of the chase of 270 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: like oh, or even when you just meet someone new, 271 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: even if it's really healthy, you're like, oh, are we 272 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: going to kiss tonight for the first time? Like where 273 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: are we going to go to dinner next week? Like Oh, 274 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 2: I'm just constantly thinking about them and like it's new, exciting. 275 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: What am I going to learn about this person? So 276 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: there's a lot of anticipation, and that's wonderful, but eventually 277 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: there becomes a point where it's not necessarily needed to 278 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: have so much anticipation when you become more committed to 279 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: somebody because you know where they stand, you know where 280 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: you stand, and that can be a beautiful thing, But 281 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: then it does take away some of that anticipation, It 282 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: takes away some of that dopamine, and unfortunately, there's kind 283 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: of two opposite sides of the pendulum. I'm not sure 284 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: if you've read A Meeting in Captivity by Esther Perel 285 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: or if you're familiar with it, but I absolutely love 286 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: that book. And the concept she talks about is that 287 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: passion and desire are on the opposite pendulum of comfort 288 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: and safety. And it makes sense because one of them 289 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: thrives off of uncertainty, mystery, newness, and the other one 290 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: thrives off of comfort and safety and reallyif liability, and 291 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: so as you have more reliability and more comfort, more 292 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: emotional connection in your relationship, inevitably you're kind of moving 293 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 2: away from that opposite end of the desire excitement, newness pendulum. 294 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean you can't infuse that into your relationship. 295 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: But if you want a relationship with stability and commitment. 296 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: You're automatically taking away some of the mystery to begin 297 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: with that unhealthy love has, which is that chase you mentioned, 298 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 2: or sometimes they respond, sometimes they don't, or even if 299 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 2: you're the one kind of running away from someone chasing you, like, 300 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: neither of those are fully committed people. It's kind of 301 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: like this push pull dynamic. 302 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, so spot on the pendulum that you 303 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: just described. I think that is entirely accurate, and I'd 304 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: like that you said it doesn't mean that you can't 305 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: have those occasionally, but it is almost I hate to 306 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: say that it's a choice, but there does come a point, 307 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: I think, especially in our twenties, where we have to decide, 308 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: do I want to keep pursuing these people that constantly 309 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: make me feel anxious, even though that feels exciting. Do 310 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: I want to constantly be around people where it's like 311 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: this is fun, not because I'm entertained, but because I'm stressed. 312 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: Like we confuse like feelings of anxiety and excitement and 313 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: passion and like actually just nervous arousal. So often and 314 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: I do feel like and I'm speaking from personal experience 315 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: and from the experience of friends, you get to this 316 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: point where you're like, Okay, there is this group of 317 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: people who are going to make me feel this way, 318 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: which is the excitement, the passion and whatnot. And then 319 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: there's this other group of people who will actually make 320 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: me feel really calm and who will respect my boundaries. 321 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: And they might not be my first choice, that doesn't 322 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: mean that they need to be completely counted out. Because 323 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: if you're really thinking about, like what you want in 324 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: the future, if what you want is healthy love, that 325 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: might not look how you thought it would. You know, like, 326 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: it might not look how you were sold it in 327 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: the movies and in TV shows and even by your 328 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: parents and even by social media. Like I feel like 329 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: that also plays a massive role in what we come 330 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: to expect from our partners. 331 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: For sure. And I've had clients and I understand exactly 332 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 2: where they're coming from when they say this, But I've 333 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: had people come to me and maybe if they're just 334 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 2: in one session or at the beginning of our time together, 335 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: and they're like, my partner liked me back right away, 336 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: and they told me they liked me back right away, 337 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: and part of me was like, why don't they have 338 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 2: anyone else that they're like available talking to you or 339 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: like do they like are they just lame or something like. 340 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: It's almost like we want the safe person, but then 341 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: when the safe person is actually there and committed, we don't. 342 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 2: And I think in theory, it feels nice to be like, oh, 343 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: this guy was dating around, but they chose me as 344 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: if we win some kind of trophy. But if you 345 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 2: actually hear how I just said that, it's like that's 346 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 2: not actually necessarily something to look up to you. It's 347 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 2: just that you want something and you got to have 348 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: an ego boost. But then when the safe, healthy person's 349 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: available in telling you that they're into you for some reason, 350 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 2: that gives people the ick. 351 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, it gives me. It used to give me the 352 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: ick a little bit because I think that it's like 353 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: also very and like very patriarchal where it's like that's true, 354 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, where it's like women like 355 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: you need to be pursued, like it's not meant to 356 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: be like easy. You need to like tie him down. 357 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: And I know that's like a very like heteronormative way 358 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: of looking at it, but that does infuse and to think, 359 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: I think everyone's minds where it's like we have been 360 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: sold like unrealistic relationship like trope that actually probably won't 361 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: make us happy, but because we might not see a 362 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: lot of other examples of that, we only want this 363 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: thing that like is unhealthy but looks really good. It's 364 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: kind of like I always give the analogy of the 365 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: difference between like a really really fulfilling like salad or 366 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: a really like nutritional meal and like McDonald's, or like 367 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: a or like something that's like super like high and 368 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: saturated fat and sugary. I think that those relationships that 369 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: feel really exciting and passionate and like euphoric, like intense, 370 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: that is your like fast food right there, Like that 371 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: is gonna make that is just gonna like set your 372 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: taste bud, It's gonna set your brain on fire. It's 373 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: gonna be delicious, and then you're gonna be left feeling 374 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: sick like a couple hours later, and like it's not 375 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: necessarily what's best for your body, even though it's what 376 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: feels best in the moment. And then you have something 377 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: like a really nutritious, like nutritional, nutritious meal, and a 378 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: nutritious meal is like okay, yeah, maybe it's not as 379 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: like exciting, but also you're gonna feel healthier, You're gonna 380 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: live better, might even live longer, like you're going to 381 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: just have a better sense of wellness. And the same 382 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: goes for relationship. It's especially those in out twenties. So 383 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: how can we kind of tell when the person we're 384 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: dating isn't right for us? What are some of the 385 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: warning signs of that, like really electric individual who isn't 386 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: leaving us feeling safe, but also might not be leaving 387 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: us feeling bored. 388 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that what I talked about earlier 389 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: with like that two way street, you know, love being 390 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: given take that feels really important where if you feel 391 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 2: like it's kind of that whole what am I going 392 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: to get from this person? Like oh, sometimes they text 393 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: me back in two hours and sometimes it takes three days. 394 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: You know, that feels like it's going to be the 395 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: more exciting thing because you're left on your toes. But 396 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 2: to me, it feels really important to have someone who 397 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: is giving you their commitment or at least communicating hey, 398 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: I have a really busy week, I'll check back in later. 399 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: That feels important and feeling like you can share your 400 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 2: authentic self, not feeling like you're performing for that person 401 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 2: because one of the reasons I believe that people you know, 402 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 2: in the honeymoon stage or whatever, they kind of have 403 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: this like fantasy of a person, and one of the 404 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: reasons I think they can slip over later to like, oh, 405 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: I don't know if I like this person anymore, is 406 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 2: because you're both kind of putting this act on unintentionally, 407 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: but you're like, I need to make sure that they 408 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: think that I do this and this and this, and 409 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 2: that I'm this and this and this type person, which 410 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 2: is I'm sure some of who you are, But if 411 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: you don't peel the curtain back on some of your 412 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: vulnerable self, then how are you going to know if 413 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: they receive that and honor that in you. So I think, 414 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 2: even though it's scary to do, and maybe you don't 415 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 2: do it in the first ten minutes, but throughout getting 416 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 2: to know somebody, can you show up as your more 417 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: vulnerable self and are you met with that? And one 418 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 2: last thing is just kind of someone who creates a 419 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 2: safety for you to have feelings that aren't just positive 420 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: vibes only. That feels really important, especially for anyone listening 421 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: who may also have anxiety it's like I'm not showing 422 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 2: up perfectly all the time, but my partner is able 423 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: to honor if I'm having feelings that aren't positive quote 424 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 2: and help support me. 425 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: I put this thing on my Instagram the other day 426 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: that was, like, how did you know when the when 427 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: the person you're dating was the one? Oh, the person 428 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: that you were married to was the one? And that 429 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: was one of the biggest things that people said was 430 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: they honored both the positive sides of me and the like, 431 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to say negative, but like the ugliest 432 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: sides of me, the sides of me that I would 433 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: prefer to hide. Like it is that like true acceptance, 434 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: that is like the most beautiful thing about love. But 435 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: you also made a really good point about the honeymoon phase. 436 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: I when I first started dating my partner, was terrified 437 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: of the honeymoon phase ending because I think I'd spent 438 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: a lot of my twenties loving the initial stages of 439 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: a relationship, right, Like it's so fun, so fun when 440 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: like you really don't know anything about someone and like 441 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: everything they're doing is like surprising you, and they're really 442 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: trying to win you over, Like you said, maybe even 443 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: putting up like a bit of a facade, like a 444 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: bit of a false persona. When the honeymoon period ends, 445 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: how can we identify whether it is just the end 446 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: of like the beginnings of the relationship, or whether some 447 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: of the feelings that we're associating with the end of 448 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: the honeymoon phase is really like a sign that maybe 449 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: this is the wrong relationship for us, Like does that 450 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: make sense? Like is it just the honeymoon phase ending, 451 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: or is the relationship actually doomed? 452 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I think if your whole really relationship is 453 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: based off of feelings alone, then that's where it could 454 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 2: be the beginning of the end. If you're only relying 455 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 2: on your feelings, because feelings are going to come and go. 456 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: And you use this beautiful word autonomy earlier, like taking 457 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 2: away our human autonomy of choosing. If you are only 458 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 2: in a relationship because it's destined and your soulmates, then 459 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 2: there's no choice, there's no intentionality, there's no showing up 460 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: and building and creating a beautiful love. And so I 461 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: think that if someone the feelings completely fade and you're 462 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 2: looking across that the other person, you're like, wait, we 463 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 2: have nothing in common, we don't have any shared. 464 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: Goals for life. 465 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: We don't accept and respect who this person is sitting 466 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 2: across from each other, then that doesn't feel like the 467 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: foundations of a healthy relationship moving forward. Whereas if you 468 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: have a lot of shared values, if you accept the 469 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 2: differences of this person, if you feel like you can 470 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 2: at least be moving on parallel path like in similar directions. 471 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: You don't have to completely intertwine and do everything in 472 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 2: your life together. But if you're doing your thing and 473 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 2: they're doing theirs, and then you have your thing together, 474 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 2: do you feel like that's moving in a direction that 475 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: you can be excited about? 476 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: Right? 477 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 2: And even though the future's out of your hands, does 478 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 2: it feel like an exciting notion? And to me that's 479 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: really important And I don't think that that's the sexy 480 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: thing of like, oh, our values are aligned, yay, But 481 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 2: the acceptance and the respect of who this person is 482 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: that feels really big. And so when the feelings fade, 483 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,360 Speaker 2: if you don't have that, like I don't know if 484 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: that is a great jumping off point to be fair. 485 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what are you what are you even gonna 486 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: talk about? 487 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? 488 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: Like, if you're not you know, if you don't have 489 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: the feelings and you don't have like the values or 490 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: like the future. It's kind of I think it's very 491 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: hard to stay in that place. The other beautiful thing 492 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: that someone told me the other day, which really lessened 493 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: my fear of the honeymoon phase ending, and it's similar 494 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: to what you were just talking about, is think about 495 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: all the versions of this person that you are yet 496 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: to meet, and all the versions that you are going 497 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: to get to fall in love with in the future. 498 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: And made my partner do this all the time, where 499 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: we're like, oh, you know what version of me like 500 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: you haven't met yet, Like you haven't met like the 501 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: version of me that's going to be like a father. 502 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: You haven't met, like the version of me that's going 503 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: to be like retired. You haven't met the version of 504 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: me that's going to be like it's going to be 505 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: in Paris next year, Like you know what I mean. 506 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: It's like you did not just fall in I don't 507 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: think you've just fallen in love with one person. You 508 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: fall in love with many versions of that one person 509 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: that you will like continue to see over your life together. 510 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: If that's something that you want, I don't know. It 511 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: always just brings me so much peace thinking about that. 512 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: That's so beautiful and it's so open minded and open 513 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: hearted compared to what sometimes happens is like we have 514 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 2: this exact view of the perfect partner. They need to 515 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: be exactly this, and they need to stay exactly like 516 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: this or they're changing. When what you just shared is 517 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: like this, it's just just like room for possibilities and 518 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: knowing that you're going to evolve just like they will too, 519 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: and that you get to have many different chapters in 520 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 2: your book. It doesn't have to just stay the same 521 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: page repeating forever. 522 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: It's so true. And that's like the thing when you 523 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,239 Speaker 1: stay in relationships that make you feel like passionate and 524 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: like excited, that is the same chapter just repeating over 525 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: and over again, you know what I mean? That is 526 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: where you actually stop growing because you are really just 527 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: addicted to a feeling rather than to like a person, 528 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: and rather than to your growth, and rather than to 529 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: something that is like has longevity. Like someone said this 530 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: to me, Like ask me the other day, like is 531 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: love is it just chemical? And to some extent, I 532 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: do think that like the early stages of love really are, 533 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: and that's why it's so addictive and so bonding, but 534 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that that doesn't that that can't transform 535 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: into something that is more, I don't know, everlasting, and 536 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: not just based on like a series of neurotransmitters that 537 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: spike and decline and whatnot totally. 538 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: And there's been research on the difference between what they 539 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 2: call passionate love, which is about like dopeamine firing, and 540 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 2: then there's eventually this shift into more companionate love, which 541 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: has more of like the feel good chemicals like serotonin, oxytocin. 542 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that like you can't again infuse 543 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 2: passion into a companionate love. But the companion at love 544 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: isn't just based off the feelings alone. It's based off 545 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: of a shared connection and showing up for one another 546 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: and creating that love together versus just kind of like 547 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 2: waiting for it to fall into your lap every morning. 548 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: Once again, the agency, the autonomy our two favorite words 549 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: for this episode. So, say there's someone listening to this 550 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: who is like, all right, I'm like a year into 551 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: my relationship, I'm a couple of years in and I 552 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: feel like things are slowing down or they've just started 553 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: dating someone and they're like, this is my first time 554 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: experiencing healthy love. I'm constantly worried when it's gonna end. 555 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: I'm worried when this is gonna when the tables are 556 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: gonna turn. What are some of the ways that you 557 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: think we can challenge those instances of relationship anxiety where, 558 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: like you mentioned before, it may not actually be a problem, 559 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: you're just experiencing that hypervigilance and that false alarm. M. 560 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely well. One thing that has been really helpful 561 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: for me is to practice compassion for the general experience 562 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 2: of relationship anxiety, so like as a whole, finding compassion 563 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 2: for the fact that I have found love to be 564 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 2: somewhat intimidating or somewhat scary, like giving it a new 565 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 2: meaning that this isn't something horrible that's happened to me. 566 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 2: It's more like, this is something that I really care 567 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 2: about and I really value, and so it does scare 568 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 2: me sometimes to think about it not working out or 569 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 2: whatever it is that needs to be there, versus the 570 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 2: judgment and the criticism for experiencing that. And then also 571 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 2: in those micro moments too, if you have a trigger 572 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: pop up, or maybe because your walls came up, you 573 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 2: kind of said something critical to your partner when you 574 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: really actually were craving connection, but your anxiety came up 575 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: and led you to kind of push them away in 576 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 2: some way, instead of letting that shame spiral go on 577 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 2: for hours or days, just acknowledging that was a moment 578 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 2: of anxiety. It wasn't my best. But how can I 579 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 2: take one's next action towards love, towards reconnection And that 580 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 2: can be loving yourself or loving the partner. But I 581 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 2: think so often we just beat ourselves up for this experience, 582 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 2: and then not only do we stay disconnected from our relationship, 583 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: but it's just really critical up in our brain too. 584 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: And I don't think that you can shame yourself out 585 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: of past trauma like you cannot, or bad habits like 586 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: you cannot shame yourself out of any of those things. 587 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: I just think that it just actually ends up exacerbating 588 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: it because you feel less like emotionally in control, You 589 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: feel like your emotions are less valid. I really love 590 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: that tip. The other one I would say is, and 591 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure you talk about this a lot as well, 592 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 1: actually take time to understand where like what the trigger is, 593 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: Like you said, like really break it down and be 594 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: like Okay, I can really identify that this came from 595 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: the fact that in my previous relationship, you know, my 596 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: partner used to pull away from me as soon as 597 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: I was when I did something that he perceived is wrong, 598 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: or he would like give and take affection, like it 599 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: was like a tool for control. And so this person 600 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: maybe just actually setting a healthy boundary with me and 601 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: being like, oh, I've got a work late. Sorry that 602 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: is triggering because it like it feels like a repeat 603 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: of a past situation, and actually just tell them, like, 604 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: just tell your partner that that's what you're feeling. I 605 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: had to do this recently, and it was like it 606 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: was hard to be like, oh, this is why. But 607 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: as soon as like that was made known, it made 608 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: a lot of sense, more sense to both of us 609 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: and actually made it a lot healthier. 610 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I love that one, and if I may add 611 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 2: one more into the mix. Absolutely, Sometimes anxiety can just 612 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 2: be this big cluttered mess in the mind and we 613 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 2: try to think our way out. So are they the one? 614 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 2: How can I be sure? Let me google this, Like 615 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 2: it like just becomes this like upward spiral almost like 616 00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 2: this dust of so much potential outcomes, Like it gets 617 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: really hard to actually figure that out. So if you're 618 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 2: feeling overwhelmed in that moment, what you just said is 619 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 2: a perfect thing to do. Maybe if you're like, if 620 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 2: you've gotten a little bit more grounded, you're like, Okay, 621 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 2: let me dissect this trigger a bit, so I can 622 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 2: have that awareness. But if you're just like in the 623 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 2: thick of it, one thing I've found is really important 624 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 2: is to bring the body in some way and remind 625 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 2: yourself that in the present moment, you are safe. So 626 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 2: unless you are physically unsafe and something's actually happening to 627 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: you in that moment, your brain and body are signaling danger, 628 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 2: but there isn't necessarily danger. So maybe your partner just 629 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 2: said something kind of weird and then you're firing off 630 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 2: like oh gosh, like I don't know if I could 631 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 2: be with someone like that, and then it feels really 632 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 2: scary inside. But taking some deep breaths or using your 633 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 2: five senses to come back to the space around you 634 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 2: where you are and taking some time to get grounded 635 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: and remembering like, I'm physically safe in this moment. I'm 636 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: sitting across from my partner, I'm on the couch with 637 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 2: my partner, Like I'm not actually in danger here because 638 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 2: we think we are, and then it can feel like 639 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 2: we need to solve the danger or fix the danger 640 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 2: right away versus getting a little bit of space from it. 641 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I'm sorry. But when you said 642 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: we think that we can outthink anxiety, is that what 643 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: you said? Like something like that, Oh my goodness. I'm like, wow, 644 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: that is so true. If we think about it more, 645 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,879 Speaker 1: suddenly we're going to find a solution. But it really 646 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: just makes us more anxious. That is like a real 647 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:44,959 Speaker 1: slap in the face for me. I'm like, real call out. 648 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: I have one final question for you, which is what 649 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: do we do when we feel bored? When our relationship 650 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: does feel a little bit boring? How can we shift 651 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: that up, change that up? 652 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 2: I would say two key things here. The first one 653 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 2: might be surprising because I'm not going to start within 654 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 2: the relationship. I'm going to start within yourself because sometimes 655 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 2: we get into a relationship and we stop doing the 656 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 2: things that light us up, that make us feel excited. 657 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 2: Our creativity, our time with our friends, our travel, our 658 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 2: learning new things, the things that make us feel like 659 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 2: we have exciting things in our life. And if you're 660 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 2: not doing that, then you're going to also project the 661 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 2: boredom you feel in your life onto the relationship because 662 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 2: we've been sold this idea that once you find the 663 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: one or once you find a partner, then all your 664 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 2: problems are solved and you just ride off into the 665 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 2: sunset and like they kind of make you complete or 666 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,359 Speaker 2: make you whole. But I want people listening to check 667 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 2: in with themselves of has my relationship gotten boring or 668 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 2: have I also gotten boring? And that contribute to how 669 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: my relationship is feeling. That's the first component, and the 670 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 2: second component is bringing some of that anticipation or newness 671 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: back into the relationship. So trying new things together, whether 672 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 2: that's a new restaurant, a new you know, trip, a 673 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,919 Speaker 2: new day trip, a new hobby, a new activity, even 674 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 2: like asking your partner what's something you've always wanted to 675 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 2: do and maybe you don't love it, but you still 676 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 2: try it for them, and then you do something that 677 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 2: you love. It could be like physically, like with intimacy too, 678 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 2: like just I don't know, spice things up a bit. 679 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 2: Like I feel like we get into these very conditional 680 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 2: like routines where we're just like, all right, this is working, 681 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 2: so let's keep it going. This feels safe, like we've 682 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 2: talked about. But then eventually we need that uncertainty back. 683 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: We need that mystery and we have to be responsible 684 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 2: for creating it. 685 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,280 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, we have to be responsible for creating 686 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: out our mystery. Very very true. I honestly complain they 687 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: agree with you, and the hobby thing is really important, 688 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 1: and also the friendships. I think that when we start 689 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: dating someone, they become like the new center of our 690 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: social orbit and like our social universe, and it causes 691 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: like everyone else to be pushed out a little bit. 692 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: And I think that's natural because they are they do 693 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: require like a huge investment of time and energy to 694 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: get the relationship to a point where it is like 695 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: a true love. But sometimes I think we get like 696 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: six months in and we look around and we're like, oh, okay, 697 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: we need to recalibrate here and like bring some of 698 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,399 Speaker 1: those other important players in my life back back into 699 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 1: the equation. So I want to say thank you so 700 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: much for coming on, Sarah. I actually feel like this 701 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: was selfishly just free therapy for me. I'm like just 702 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: listening to you being like, yeah, all right, we write 703 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 1: that down, like check. So I really do appreciate all 704 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: your knowledge and your opinions and just your value. Where 705 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,839 Speaker 1: can the listeners find you to learn more? 706 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much. I receive those kind words, 707 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 2: and I love this conversation as well. And people can 708 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 2: find me at You Love and You Learn both on 709 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 2: Instagram and TikTok. And then I have a podcast as 710 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 2: well that you Love and You Learn podcast, which is 711 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 2: much more focused on like relationship anxiety themes. So I 712 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 2: love your podcast how it goes like wide with so 713 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 2: many amazing topics, and mine is very kind of narrowed 714 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 2: in on love and relationships. So if that's people's jam, 715 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 2: then I'd love to have you come over and take 716 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 2: a peek. 717 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And actually I have listened to some of your 718 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: episodes when I've been in like a little bit of 719 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: like a relationship brought and they are super, super helpful. 720 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: So I really do recommend if this episode relate like 721 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: resonated with you in any sense, please go and say 722 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 1: what Sarah is creating. It's very, very beautiful. As always, 723 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 1: if you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share 724 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: it with a friend who needs to hear it. Leave 725 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 1: a five star review, and make sure that you're following 726 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: along so you know when new episodes come out live. Additionally, 727 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: if you have an episode's suggestion or something that you 728 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: would like us to talk about, please shoot me a 729 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 1: DM shoot me a message at that Psychology podcast and 730 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: follow us over there to see all of the behind 731 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: the scenes content. We will be back next week with 732 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: another episode.