WEBVTT - Fire Drill 009: Trumped 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.640 Had those protests on January six, gathered Capitol Hill and 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:12.360 been peaceful, we would be playing the PHA Championship at 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:19.360 Betminster this week, There's no question about it. Put another 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:32.479 log on the fire nobody hears get the time. Hello, 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:37.920 this is Alan Schip knock back for another Fire Drill podcast. Uh. 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:44.120 Joining as per usual the New Norm Michael Bamberger from Philadelphia. 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.520 How are you, Michael? Great? I like the new normal, 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.240 don't we all? Don't we all? I want to think 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.520 part points they've they've been with the fire pick collected 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.760 from the beginning. That's the scoring thing that's I want 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.240 to learn about that. Yeah, I think the will be 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.080 a recurring bit in our podcast. I wouldn't know about 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.600 it next time. But just a quick word about about 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.800 power points, because it is a really fun new way 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.680 to score golf. Instead of just strokes, you get actually 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.960 getting points. It's great for kids and beginners who that's 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:18.600 the mentality and every other sport you want to as 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.119 many points as possible. And so it's really a labor 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:22.800 of love from from these two guys who I've become 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.960 friends with, Brandon Ebert and Kevin Quinley. They're awesome dudes. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.039 Members of Prairie Dunes, which might be the best golf 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.640 course in America. Like I went out and played with them, 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.080 I blew my mind and we actually it was it 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.679 was a fun challenge to We played power points out there. 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.520 And it's based on the yardage, right, So you can 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.480 have a five yard hole, but you can tee off 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.280 anywhere you want and make your own golf course. And 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.840 so you know, if it's a if it's a if 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.680 it's this long, hard carry and you're playing against the 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.880 guy who scratched like Kevin, I might move up in 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.120 front of the hazard and played as a drivable par four. 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.919 You would accrew fewer points because you've reduced the yardage 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.480 it and puts you maybe in a more advantageous position. 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.200 So it's a whole other layer of strategy on top 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.959 of um. You have to execute the shots, but you 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.560 got to be realistic about what you can and can't do. Yeah, 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.960 that that's part of the challenge. It's like can I 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.600 hit a career drive here or am I more likely 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.120 to hook it into the dunes. Well you know the 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.040 answer to that, Michael. So you do have to be 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.520 you do have to be clever. But anyway, part points 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.440 check it out, so well, we want to take this 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.160 before Michael and I have our long travel days to 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.680 um Tulsa, Oklahoma. It's like Paris in the spring. We're gonna, 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.679 We're gonna be there. We're gonna enjoy the week. There's 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.160 some good barbecue, there's some great night and golf, and 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.480 there's one hell of a golf course Southern Hills, which 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.680 is um was great town to be a vegetarian. And 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:50.280 that's what I hear. That's quick question, Brown, How are 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:54.160 you getting there? What's your path? I'm gonna drive to 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.480 s j c UM that's the San Jose Airport and 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:02.400 then I connect through deadn for but only into Oklahoma 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.440 City that I'm gonna drive because the way the flights 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.360 were coming from the West coast, it was just quicker 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.880 than to make that little drive over from from Oklahoma City. 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.079 But um, you know, we've talked about this before. It 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:16.680 is one of the joys of our job is that 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.359 we get to places we otherwise probably not visit. And 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.200 I do have fond memories of Tulsa just for some 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.280 good meals. And there was that law for Tune Park, 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.360 that little that little lighted golf course. It was across 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.600 the street from the Media Center and years past, and 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:32.880 we would play and at ten o'clock the light to 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:34.680 go out and you hear a bunch of like, you know, 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.920 golf writers like, oh crap, you know, and everyone would 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.000 walk in under the cover of darkness, and um, I 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.480 know that place is still going strong, and I expect that. Well, 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.800 we'll visit it. I'm a in Tulsa, bunch. It's a 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.560 great town. And I think Tulsa is two men's gulf 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.520 what Rochester, New York is to women's golf. It's like 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:54.280 they don't get it that often, but when they do, 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.840 they really go to town and it's a it's a 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.280 great golf town. It's a great city. And of course 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.960 Southern Hills has been you know, retrofitted by Gil Hants, 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.920 and I've seen the pictures. It looks absolutely luscious. It 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:09.280 was always one of those courses that had, you know, 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:13.280 the proverbial great bones, um, but there there were some 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.320 greens that are unpinnable and the bunkers looked a little tired, 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.520 so they refreshed Southern Hills. I think it's gonna be 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.640 one hell of a venue. And well, um, we're gonna 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:25.840 defer too much talk about the golf course itself, because 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.520 we're gonna be joined by Jeff Ogilvie, another another member 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.280 of the fire Pit Collective. Here in the days to come, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.520 we'll drop a more golf course centric preview and get 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.800 into the wackiness of um the two thousand one US 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.080 Open and some other fun stuff. But UM, today we 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:45.640 want we want to set the table a little bit 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.040 because not everyone remembers or knows that Southern Hills was 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.280 not the original venue for this PG Championship. It was 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:55.120 supposed to be trump bedminister and all that changed on 0:04:55.360 --> 0:05:00.400 January six, two thousand and one. And Michael is, of 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.279 course the hardcore golf fan is well aware, recently joined 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:08.800 the collective and his first big story that that we're dropping, 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.839 which is such a thrill to even say that. It 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:16.000 goes extremely deep on this whole issue. So, um, it's 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.320 on fire but collective dot com right now, I guess, Michael, 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.400 what what what drew you to telling this tale of 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:26.760 how Trump lost the p G A where Michelson fits 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.040 into it? Uh? You know there's cameos from Big Jack 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:34.440 Nicholas and it's quite a rich stew of Big personalities 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.400 and seth wah the who's the head of the PG 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.800 of America. He has some pretty poignant things to say. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.800 So maybe briefly describe where you take the story and 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.160 why you were drawn to it. Good, thank you for 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.120 all that. Let's try to remember time. Trump has always 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.760 been a larger than life figure. But let's try to 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.560 think about Trump before he even got into politics. He 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.480 was a he was a real estate mogul tycoon. He 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.360 was saying, it's become a fashion was that he was 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.720 a second rate TV personality, but it's not really true. 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.359 He was the first rate TV personality in the sense 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.400 that his shows The Apprentice were wildly popular. What you 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.240 liked him and didn't like him doesn't matter. They weren't 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:19.080 successful shows. But his real passion was golf. He was 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.160 using golf, maybe to make money. I think his primary 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.239 thing was to raise his status, and he was buying 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.760 courses and his building courses, and he's fixing up old 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.480 courses like dur Ralph. You could say you like him 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.440 or didn't like him, even that's not material. If let's 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.440 just try to think from Trump's perspective. He had a passion. 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.080 He had a genuine passion for golf, and he had 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.440 a driving need in his own psyche to be on 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.799 the world's best stages. And he cultivated the PGA Tour, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.080 the PGA of America, the U s J and other 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.800 and other r and a other organizations, but those primarily 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.080 to try to get a major championship, with the idea 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:58.800 that if he could get one, he could get more. 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.080 And if you're trying to sell memberships and tea times, 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.440 you're trying to raise your status through golf in your 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.480 golf course owner, what could be better than that? Just 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.600 as a quick aside to that thought, when you think 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.560 about being a member of Augusta National, what is being 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.480 a member of Augusta National mean without that annual Master's tournament, 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:22.560 It's a totally different thing. Sometime in twos, through Pete Babaco, 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:24.160 who was in the CEO of the PUGE of America 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:25.760 and Ted Bishop, who was then the president of the 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.840 PUG of America, he got the Trump deed Minster Course 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.640 selected and it was had to be a major thing 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.920 on his life calendar that I'm going to be the 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.960 host of the major championship. Yeah, I mean to understand Trump, 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:42.120 you have to understand golf because he was this this striver, 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.160 you know, from the unfashionable borough of New York City, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.800 and he couldn't get into Augusta National. He couldn't get 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:55.600 into Pine Valley or Seminole or any of these citadels 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.040 of golf, and that killed him right like that. That 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.920 was That was is for someone who status is everything 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.600 to not be invited to these, these the most coveted 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.200 of clubs. I think that that explains his whole foray 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.240 into golf real estates like, okay, you won't have me, 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.800 then let me just build something bigger and grander than 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.280 what you already have. Now it's as you said, it's 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.080 not it's not all of our tastes, but um, you 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.440 know that that need to be accepted. And he was 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:29.360 never really accepted in Manhattan society. Um, he was just 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.400 too he was too loud, he was too new, too 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.560 new money. And I really think it's a huge part 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:39.120 of trump psyche. And uh so expand on that a 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:42.760 little bit more, just because the courtship that that Trump 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.280 did a professional golf is almost unparalleled. Because also the LPGA, 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.080 I mean, he went after every single organization and governing 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.160 body there is I mean he he spread it around 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.800 and and finally got the validation for the PGA of America. 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.840 I mean, how important was that. I think it had 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.600 to a huge link for him, and uh, you could 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.800 egg him on in conversation. And I'm really dating myself here, 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.719 not dating myself. I'm really dating myself. But I'm really 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:11.240 trying to say, is I'm talking about a period in 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.280 his life long before he got into politics. But he 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.360 played the U s J off the PGA of America, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.320 played the PGA America off the U s g A, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.800 the PGA Tours. It was part of the mix. He 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.480 hadded this long relationship with the lp J. He's a 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:31.439 very very sophisticated manipulator, as many great salesman art. And 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:36.320 what happened in this particular case was Mike David. Mike 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.240 Davis and people of Accua were both rising forces at 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.120 the U s g A. And one of the two 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.360 of them was going to succeed our friend David fat 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.559 as the as the executive rector of the U s 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.199 j A. UH the U s G One was a 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.559 lawyer and a businessman and one was a golf guy. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.760 Pete was a lawyer and businessman. Mike Mike Davis very 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.560 much golf guy. They selected Mike Davis Pete the U 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.640 s g A, as people somebodys do in that situation, 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:04.680 I believe went to c A for Prie period and 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:06.480 then it came back to Golf is the CEO of 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.720 the PGA of America. The U s g A was 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.960 going down an aggressive road to Trump. They had signed 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.760 on the women's U S Open was going to be 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.720 h PN Minster, They had already had a U S Junior, 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.800 the boys champion was Jordan's speed. So that when Pete 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.000 got the job of the PGA of America, he swooped 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.280 in there quickly with Ted Bishop at his side, and 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.760 signed up Trump for the two thousand at senior pH 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:34.640 signed up Trump for the two dozen in a senior 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.400 PGA and two PGA Championship, And they were sort of 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.240 off and running. So he was playing one against the other. 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.719 And and now he's kind of I mean just to 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.520 jump way ahead for a minute. Well he sort of 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.040 burned to all of them. The PGA Tour probably won't 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.559 do business, So the PJA American probably won't, the R 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.200 and A probably won't. The only people left who will, 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.560 I know, I'm really getting to a head. Here is 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.720 lived golf, but that was much shoot past. But anyway, 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.920 well it doesn't it doesn't form this whole thing. And 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:10.080 we should mention here that, um, among sports writers, you 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:14.280 probably know Trump the best, and even among most mainstream reporters, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.960 because when Michael's at Sports Illustrated he wrote a definitive 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.040 feature on Donald Trump. This is way before the presidential ambitions. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.400 But um, tell the reader how often you interacted with 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.680 Trump during the reporting of this story. I mean, I 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:31.800 don't want this is a modesty, immodest. I would just 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.599 say it's accurate. He would not let go of me. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.760 Nothing nothing to do with me, and everything to do 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.160 with the fact that I had something he wanted, a 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.920 good write up in Sports Illustrated, and he thought if 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.920 he could win me over, he'd get what he wanted. 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.600 It just as how one amusing thing. People say, oh, 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:50.240 how can you remember this all these years later? The 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.160 recent remembers just and I'm sure you've had many kept 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.199 had this experience. Trump gets lodged in your head. It's 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.480 just the way he talks and everything about him. He's 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.319 a slow talker. It's not what he says is not complicated. 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:04.800 So you know, it's not like it's nuance. You gotta 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.959 remember Trump's skill, and this what I'm about to say 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.559 did not show up at all in my opinion and 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:17.600 his presidency. Trump's skill actually was to listen to you 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.480 and figure out where he could push your buttons to 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.680 win you over. And but because you know I don't 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.079 like vallet parking and I don't like fire what he 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:31.400 called those things the water cast getting down waterfall waterfalls, 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.720 and you know I don't need his hamburgers, he would 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.439 say things like, or these not the most spirit to 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.680 put cart paths you've ever seen in your life? Like 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.280 I don't even like cart paths. You're asking the wrong person. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:43.840 And then, of course you're trying to be a place. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.360 You say, I mean, yeah, Donald, those are the best 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.040 cart paths I've ever seen life. And then later this 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.000 is made up. If you should write something like and 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.559 the cart paths so ridiculous, he'll call you. So you 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.240 said those card pass for the best two episode. Heard 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.360 you say so, I mean he's tricky. It's a weird 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.080 way and fun in his own weird way. Yeah, until 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.640 because it was all meaningless, it's just then, of course, 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.480 in president states yeah, I mean right, I mean because 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:12.360 I dealt with Trump a bit when he was just 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.200 a golf guy, and he was slightly ridiculous, but he 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.600 was fun because he's just he's the larger life character 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.840 and he does understand the game. He loves the game, 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.640 and he could expound on Christie Kerr's putting stroke, and 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.640 you know, he really was a hardcore fan. And you know, 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.360 I actually thought the single most nuanced thing he said 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.200 during his entire presidency when he was talking about the 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.960 electoral College versus the popular vote, was that it was 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.120 it was like match play versus stroke play, and it 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.120 was genius. And when you think of it in that terms, 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.880 the whole thing makes sense because we all know you 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.800 I can shoot eight and you can shoot eight two, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.520 but I can still beat you in match play. Because 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.160 that's the way, the best, the way it goes. And 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.680 so anyway, that was, that was incredibly insightful. And let's 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.319 say something like, how about the act of giving Tiger 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.520 Woods the Presidential Medal of Freedom at age, you know, 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.479 mid forties, because he won the Masters. Let's say Mollinary, 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.079 you know, just about three weeks after he won the Masters, 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.800 Let's say mollinary have played that back on better and 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.280 he won. Then when Trump had given uh, you know, 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.880 he gave him the Presidential Medal Freedom, the highest civilian honor, 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.840 because he won a golf tournament. And it was good 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.000 for Trump. But let's leave all that aside. He had, 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.040 in my opinion, Trump's best day as president was when 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.920 that kid came to mow the one of the White 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.480 House and Trump talked about and Trump was so charming 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:37.720 with the kid, and the kid was great that the 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.240 Trump was great. But Trump was spectacular with Tiger Woods 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.160 that day. And one of the things, to your point, 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.160 so he's reading about the teleprompter, he says, and the 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.400 teger had the Garden Trophy scoring outage, and then he 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.800 got off his little Prompterty said, and that's really saying 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:56.280 something because he only plays the hardest courses. Well, that's accurate, insight. 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:58.240 You know, it's hard to win that now they do 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.440 with Justin Barten. Trump at the point being, it's harder 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.640 to win the Barton Trophy when you're not playing Bob 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.200 Hope and you know the course courses. So as you say, 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.320 your your example was way better. But he I mean, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.880 that is really the old example, match versus medal for 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:20.920 electoral versus probably broke, but he's knowledgeable back off. That's 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.880 really the point. Yeah, And so he gets the p 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:28.040 g A championship in twentys you and then he runs 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:33.920 a very divisive presidential campaign. He becomes a very polarizing president, 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.640 and there's a lot of angst in the governing bodies. Now, 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.280 the U s J had awarded Trump the Women's Open 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.560 at Trump Beadminister, a kind of the crown jewel in 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.160 his portfolio and the hill Country of New Jersey, and 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.840 it was too late to pull the plug. So you 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.520 had the sitting president of the United States tweeting NonStop 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.120 about women's golf that week. And you and I were 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.680 both of that tournament, and you know the motor cade 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.520 but roar up and in the middle of this golf turn, 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.880 I would pop the President of the United States and 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.200 he's pressing flesh and he's he's greeting his members and 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:12.280 he's signed autographs and it was this weird confluence of 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:20.400 golf celebrity politics. And for the wind, he was like 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.920 the potmobile. Yeah, I was unbelievable promobile out wheels and yeah, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.800 all of it was it was. It was ridiculous and 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.080 fun and whatever your feelings are about Trump, it was 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:35.800 an unbelievable victory for the Women's Open because it received 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.960 global attention and Trump couldn't help, you know, tweeting about 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:44.400 these these obscure golfers to you know, to the political people, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.560 and they had to pay attention because he was on 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.840 the property and this tournament was playing out. And uh, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.880 of course there was the President's Cup at Liberty National 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:57.760 where he helicoptered in for the US victory. So even 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:02.000 though Trump was so incredibly polarizing, he still was hosting 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.879 or he had a role in in these big time tournaments. 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:10.040 And then, of course January six happened, and that changed 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.080 things in the dying days of his presidency. So take 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.960 the reader through what happens. There's the Capital riots, and um, 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.280 of course, again golf always plays role, as the next 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.639 day Anika and Gary player Resid received their Presidential Medals 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.679 of Freedom. While you know they're they're they're still cleaning 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.440 the blood off the steps of the Capital and that's 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.919 become part of both of their legacies. But it had 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.000 an impact right away on on how people felt about 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.000 about Trump and about his legacy and of course the 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.240 two thousand champonship, which are on the precipice of so 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.520 to walk the reader through what happens in the aftermath 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.320 of the riots, right and and it's interesting to see 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.600 how the U s J played Trump versus how the 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.000 UM when Trump announced his candidacy with hav in two 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.680 thousand fifteen, summer two thousand fifteen, and then he made 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.000 those payous comments about Mexican immigrants, and the us J 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.399 was already getting cold feed about the guy, and they 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.840 sent up a couple of emissaries the us J did 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.359 to to try to talk to him out of having 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.040 the two thousand and eighteen US Women's Open the orang 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.879 just talking about and Trump said, you know, there's no 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.639 way I got a fucking contract. Uh. So now I 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:27.359 passed forward to his presidency and there's Charlottesville, Ruth, and 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:32.399 there's everything you know, the the no fly zone for 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.720 Muslims and just you know, one thing and one thing 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.720 after another that could have been disqualifying Mark, and the 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.320 PHA America is like, well, we this guy's gonna be 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.200 the host. He's either going to be the former president 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.240 or the sitting president. Uh. And he's gonna. He's a 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:52.639 polarizing figure. Uh, but there was no question that he 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.240 was going to be the host of this championship. And 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.800 then and then januaries and then January six comes and 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.639 seth wais in Florida watching an unfold and part of 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.160 it is an intellectual exercise, and part it's just an 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.199 instinctive that a line had been crossed from which the 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.320 p g A could not recover. And um, and I 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:18.000 know people have really strong opinions about this on both 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:19.760 sides of it. You know, it's just a golf course. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.480 From names attached to it, Why does it matter? Well, 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:30.680 because incept was view of things Trump, the divisive president 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:35.240 or or ex president would co opt and become and 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.240 become much bigger than the tournament. And that would not 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.400 serve the PJ of America. Well, and when you think 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.640 about it, this this weird line. How those protests he's 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:49.719 on January six gathered Capitol Hill and been peaceful, we 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.200 would be playing the PGA Championship at Bedminster this week. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.520 There's no question about it. It was because Trump. What 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:02.560 no matter what your opinion is, Trump was pinned with 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:10.160 formenting the riot and then doing very little to quell it. 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.000 Does that sound accurate? I don't want to say anything 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:16.800 that doesn't sound accurate. I mean, I don't want to 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.159 say I don't want to voice an opinion here, but 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.880 I would think that, you know, the broad feeling among 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.200 not everybody biting these but millions of people, was that 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:29.440 that that he had. He encouraged the gathering that led 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.280 to the writing and did very little to quell the 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.440 well the writing when when it was underway. That would 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:39.040 maybe be an understatement for that reason. He lost the 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.440 p J championship, but had those parts from peaceful and 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.480 we would have it. So, you know, people have you 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:47.359 and I among them. We hate the mix of politics 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.160 in sport. We go to sport to get away from 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.880 politics a lot of the time, maybe all the time, 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:58.080 but there are times when the two are so intertwined 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:00.960 you can't get away from it. And this is one 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.879 of those times. Yeah, And there's a long history of that. 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.240 I mean going back to you know, Jesse Owens in 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:10.119 the Berlin Olympics with Hitler, I mean, um, John Smith 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.680 and Tommy Carlos, like politics and sports have always Muhammad 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.399 Ali and the Vietnam Draft, like this is taking me 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:22.760 in the NFL games and Trump Trump, Trump turned that 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.000 into something political. Well, it was political, Trump turned not 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.440 more political. It's naive to say that the politics doesn't 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.440 have a role in sports because it's always had that role. 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:32.840 And while you're right, it sometimes wish it didn't. But 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:37.080 it's it's just it is what it is that and 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.320 it really is what it is. And the shocker to 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.199 me is the Trump, the Trump that I thought I 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.159 knew before he before he became a politician, ran for 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:50.880 the presidency. Was such a salesman. I thought he would 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.320 have done anything he could do to not be this 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.080 even though he's a polarizing figure you like him or 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:57.920 don't like him. I thought he would try to win 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:01.280 people over and and and even and all through the 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:05.040 presidency you saw that he wasn't like that at all, 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:08.000