1
00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: Had those protests on January six, gathered Capitol Hill and

2
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:12,360
Speaker 1: been peaceful, we would be playing the PHA Championship at

3
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: Betminster this week, There's no question about it. Put another

4
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:32,479
Speaker 1: log on the fire nobody hears get the time. Hello,

5
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,920
Speaker 1: this is Alan Schip knock back for another Fire Drill podcast. Uh.

6
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 1: Joining as per usual the New Norm Michael Bamberger from Philadelphia.

7
00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,520
Speaker 1: How are you, Michael? Great? I like the new normal,

8
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,240
Speaker 1: don't we all? Don't we all? I want to think

9
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,520
Speaker 1: part points they've they've been with the fire pick collected

10
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 1: from the beginning. That's the scoring thing that's I want

11
00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 1: to learn about that. Yeah, I think the will be

12
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,080
Speaker 1: a recurring bit in our podcast. I wouldn't know about

13
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 1: it next time. But just a quick word about about

14
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 1: power points, because it is a really fun new way

15
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,680
Speaker 1: to score golf. Instead of just strokes, you get actually

16
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,960
Speaker 1: getting points. It's great for kids and beginners who that's

17
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 1: the mentality and every other sport you want to as

18
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,119
Speaker 1: many points as possible. And so it's really a labor

19
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:22,800
Speaker 1: of love from from these two guys who I've become

20
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 1: friends with, Brandon Ebert and Kevin Quinley. They're awesome dudes.

21
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,039
Speaker 1: Members of Prairie Dunes, which might be the best golf

22
00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 1: course in America. Like I went out and played with them,

23
00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,080
Speaker 1: I blew my mind and we actually it was it

24
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,679
Speaker 1: was a fun challenge to We played power points out there.

25
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 1: And it's based on the yardage, right, So you can

26
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,480
Speaker 1: have a five yard hole, but you can tee off

27
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 1: anywhere you want and make your own golf course. And

28
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 1: so you know, if it's a if it's a if

29
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: it's this long, hard carry and you're playing against the

30
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 1: guy who scratched like Kevin, I might move up in

31
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 1: front of the hazard and played as a drivable par four.

32
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,919
Speaker 1: You would accrew fewer points because you've reduced the yardage

33
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 1: it and puts you maybe in a more advantageous position.

34
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: So it's a whole other layer of strategy on top

35
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,959
Speaker 1: of um. You have to execute the shots, but you

36
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,560
Speaker 1: got to be realistic about what you can and can't do. Yeah,

37
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 1: that that's part of the challenge. It's like can I

38
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 1: hit a career drive here or am I more likely

39
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,120
Speaker 1: to hook it into the dunes. Well you know the

40
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,040
Speaker 1: answer to that, Michael. So you do have to be

41
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,520
Speaker 1: you do have to be clever. But anyway, part points

42
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 1: check it out, so well, we want to take this

43
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 1: before Michael and I have our long travel days to

44
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,680
Speaker 1: um Tulsa, Oklahoma. It's like Paris in the spring. We're gonna,

45
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,679
Speaker 1: We're gonna be there. We're gonna enjoy the week. There's

46
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,160
Speaker 1: some good barbecue, there's some great night and golf, and

47
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 1: there's one hell of a golf course Southern Hills, which

48
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,680
Speaker 1: is um was great town to be a vegetarian. And

49
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: that's what I hear. That's quick question, Brown, How are

50
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: you getting there? What's your path? I'm gonna drive to

51
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 1: s j c UM that's the San Jose Airport and

52
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,400
Speaker 1: then I connect through deadn for but only into Oklahoma

53
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 1: City that I'm gonna drive because the way the flights

54
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,360
Speaker 1: were coming from the West coast, it was just quicker

55
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,880
Speaker 1: than to make that little drive over from from Oklahoma City.

56
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,079
Speaker 1: But um, you know, we've talked about this before. It

57
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:16,680
Speaker 1: is one of the joys of our job is that

58
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,359
Speaker 1: we get to places we otherwise probably not visit. And

59
00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 1: I do have fond memories of Tulsa just for some

60
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 1: good meals. And there was that law for Tune Park,

61
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 1: that little that little lighted golf course. It was across

62
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: the street from the Media Center and years past, and

63
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,880
Speaker 1: we would play and at ten o'clock the light to

64
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:34,680
Speaker 1: go out and you hear a bunch of like, you know,

65
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 1: golf writers like, oh crap, you know, and everyone would

66
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 1: walk in under the cover of darkness, and um, I

67
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,480
Speaker 1: know that place is still going strong, and I expect that. Well,

68
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 1: we'll visit it. I'm a in Tulsa, bunch. It's a

69
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 1: great town. And I think Tulsa is two men's gulf

70
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 1: what Rochester, New York is to women's golf. It's like

71
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,280
Speaker 1: they don't get it that often, but when they do,

72
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 1: they really go to town and it's a it's a

73
00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 1: great golf town. It's a great city. And of course

74
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 1: Southern Hills has been you know, retrofitted by Gil Hants,

75
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: and I've seen the pictures. It looks absolutely luscious. It

76
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 1: was always one of those courses that had, you know,

77
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 1: the proverbial great bones, um, but there there were some

78
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 1: greens that are unpinnable and the bunkers looked a little tired,

79
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 1: so they refreshed Southern Hills. I think it's gonna be

80
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: one hell of a venue. And well, um, we're gonna

81
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 1: defer too much talk about the golf course itself, because

82
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna be joined by Jeff Ogilvie, another another member

83
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,280
Speaker 1: of the fire Pit Collective. Here in the days to come,

84
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,520
Speaker 1: we'll drop a more golf course centric preview and get

85
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 1: into the wackiness of um the two thousand one US

86
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,080
Speaker 1: Open and some other fun stuff. But UM, today we

87
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: want we want to set the table a little bit

88
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,040
Speaker 1: because not everyone remembers or knows that Southern Hills was

89
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 1: not the original venue for this PG Championship. It was

90
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: supposed to be trump bedminister and all that changed on

91
00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,400
Speaker 1: January six, two thousand and one. And Michael is, of

92
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,279
Speaker 1: course the hardcore golf fan is well aware, recently joined

93
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 1: the collective and his first big story that that we're dropping,

94
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 1: which is such a thrill to even say that. It

95
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 1: goes extremely deep on this whole issue. So, um, it's

96
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,320
Speaker 1: on fire but collective dot com right now, I guess, Michael,

97
00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 1: what what what drew you to telling this tale of

98
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 1: how Trump lost the p G A where Michelson fits

99
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,040
Speaker 1: into it? Uh? You know there's cameos from Big Jack

100
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,440
Speaker 1: Nicholas and it's quite a rich stew of Big personalities

101
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: and seth wah the who's the head of the PG

102
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 1: of America. He has some pretty poignant things to say.

103
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 1: So maybe briefly describe where you take the story and

104
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,160
Speaker 1: why you were drawn to it. Good, thank you for

105
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,120
Speaker 1: all that. Let's try to remember time. Trump has always

106
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 1: been a larger than life figure. But let's try to

107
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 1: think about Trump before he even got into politics. He

108
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,480
Speaker 1: was a he was a real estate mogul tycoon. He

109
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 1: was saying, it's become a fashion was that he was

110
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,720
Speaker 1: a second rate TV personality, but it's not really true.

111
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,359
Speaker 1: He was the first rate TV personality in the sense

112
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 1: that his shows The Apprentice were wildly popular. What you

113
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,240
Speaker 1: liked him and didn't like him doesn't matter. They weren't

114
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,080
Speaker 1: successful shows. But his real passion was golf. He was

115
00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,160
Speaker 1: using golf, maybe to make money. I think his primary

116
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,239
Speaker 1: thing was to raise his status, and he was buying

117
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: courses and his building courses, and he's fixing up old

118
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,480
Speaker 1: courses like dur Ralph. You could say you like him

119
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 1: or didn't like him, even that's not material. If let's

120
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 1: just try to think from Trump's perspective. He had a passion.

121
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 1: He had a genuine passion for golf, and he had

122
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 1: a driving need in his own psyche to be on

123
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,799
Speaker 1: the world's best stages. And he cultivated the PGA Tour,

124
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 1: the PGA of America, the U s J and other

125
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,800
Speaker 1: and other r and a other organizations, but those primarily

126
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 1: to try to get a major championship, with the idea

127
00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 1: that if he could get one, he could get more.

128
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,080
Speaker 1: And if you're trying to sell memberships and tea times,

129
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 1: you're trying to raise your status through golf in your

130
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,480
Speaker 1: golf course owner, what could be better than that? Just

131
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 1: as a quick aside to that thought, when you think

132
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,560
Speaker 1: about being a member of Augusta National, what is being

133
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 1: a member of Augusta National mean without that annual Master's tournament,

134
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:22,560
Speaker 1: It's a totally different thing. Sometime in twos, through Pete Babaco,

135
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,160
Speaker 1: who was in the CEO of the PUGE of America

136
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 1: and Ted Bishop, who was then the president of the

137
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: PUG of America, he got the Trump deed Minster Course

138
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 1: selected and it was had to be a major thing

139
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,920
Speaker 1: on his life calendar that I'm going to be the

140
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,960
Speaker 1: host of the major championship. Yeah, I mean to understand Trump,

141
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 1: you have to understand golf because he was this this striver,

142
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, from the unfashionable borough of New York City,

143
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 1: and he couldn't get into Augusta National. He couldn't get

144
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,600
Speaker 1: into Pine Valley or Seminole or any of these citadels

145
00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 1: of golf, and that killed him right like that. That

146
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,920
Speaker 1: was That was is for someone who status is everything

147
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,600
Speaker 1: to not be invited to these, these the most coveted

148
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: of clubs. I think that that explains his whole foray

149
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 1: into golf real estates like, okay, you won't have me,

150
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 1: then let me just build something bigger and grander than

151
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 1: what you already have. Now it's as you said, it's

152
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 1: not it's not all of our tastes, but um, you

153
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 1: know that that need to be accepted. And he was

154
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,360
Speaker 1: never really accepted in Manhattan society. Um, he was just

155
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 1: too he was too loud, he was too new, too

156
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,560
Speaker 1: new money. And I really think it's a huge part

157
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 1: of trump psyche. And uh so expand on that a

158
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,760
Speaker 1: little bit more, just because the courtship that that Trump

159
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 1: did a professional golf is almost unparalleled. Because also the LPGA,

160
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he went after every single organization and governing

161
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,160
Speaker 1: body there is I mean he he spread it around

162
00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 1: and and finally got the validation for the PGA of America.

163
00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,840
Speaker 1: I mean, how important was that. I think it had

164
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 1: to a huge link for him, and uh, you could

165
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 1: egg him on in conversation. And I'm really dating myself here,

166
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,719
Speaker 1: not dating myself. I'm really dating myself. But I'm really

167
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 1: trying to say, is I'm talking about a period in

168
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 1: his life long before he got into politics. But he

169
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 1: played the U s J off the PGA of America,

170
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,320
Speaker 1: played the PGA America off the U s g A,

171
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 1: the PGA Tours. It was part of the mix. He

172
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 1: hadded this long relationship with the lp J. He's a

173
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:31,439
Speaker 1: very very sophisticated manipulator, as many great salesman art. And

174
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,320
Speaker 1: what happened in this particular case was Mike David. Mike

175
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 1: Davis and people of Accua were both rising forces at

176
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 1: the U s g A. And one of the two

177
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,360
Speaker 1: of them was going to succeed our friend David fat

178
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,559
Speaker 1: as the as the executive rector of the U s

179
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,199
Speaker 1: j A. UH the U s G One was a

180
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,559
Speaker 1: lawyer and a businessman and one was a golf guy.

181
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,760
Speaker 1: Pete was a lawyer and businessman. Mike Mike Davis very

182
00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,560
Speaker 1: much golf guy. They selected Mike Davis Pete the U

183
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 1: s g A, as people somebodys do in that situation,

184
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 1: I believe went to c A for Prie period and

185
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,480
Speaker 1: then it came back to Golf is the CEO of

186
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,720
Speaker 1: the PGA of America. The U s g A was

187
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,960
Speaker 1: going down an aggressive road to Trump. They had signed

188
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,760
Speaker 1: on the women's U S Open was going to be

189
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,720
Speaker 1: h PN Minster, They had already had a U S Junior,

190
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 1: the boys champion was Jordan's speed. So that when Pete

191
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,000
Speaker 1: got the job of the PGA of America, he swooped

192
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 1: in there quickly with Ted Bishop at his side, and

193
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 1: signed up Trump for the two thousand at senior pH

194
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 1: signed up Trump for the two dozen in a senior

195
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,400
Speaker 1: PGA and two PGA Championship, And they were sort of

196
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 1: off and running. So he was playing one against the other.

197
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,719
Speaker 1: And and now he's kind of I mean just to

198
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 1: jump way ahead for a minute. Well he sort of

199
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 1: burned to all of them. The PGA Tour probably won't

200
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,559
Speaker 1: do business, So the PJA American probably won't, the R

201
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,200
Speaker 1: and A probably won't. The only people left who will,

202
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,560
Speaker 1: I know, I'm really getting to a head. Here is

203
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 1: lived golf, but that was much shoot past. But anyway,

204
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 1: well it doesn't it doesn't form this whole thing. And

205
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,080
Speaker 1: we should mention here that, um, among sports writers, you

206
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,280
Speaker 1: probably know Trump the best, and even among most mainstream reporters,

207
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,960
Speaker 1: because when Michael's at Sports Illustrated he wrote a definitive

208
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 1: feature on Donald Trump. This is way before the presidential ambitions.

209
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: But um, tell the reader how often you interacted with

210
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,680
Speaker 1: Trump during the reporting of this story. I mean, I

211
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 1: don't want this is a modesty, immodest. I would just

212
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,599
Speaker 1: say it's accurate. He would not let go of me.

213
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,760
Speaker 1: Nothing nothing to do with me, and everything to do

214
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,160
Speaker 1: with the fact that I had something he wanted, a

215
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 1: good write up in Sports Illustrated, and he thought if

216
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,920
Speaker 1: he could win me over, he'd get what he wanted.

217
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,600
Speaker 1: It just as how one amusing thing. People say, oh,

218
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,240
Speaker 1: how can you remember this all these years later? The

219
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 1: recent remembers just and I'm sure you've had many kept

220
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,199
Speaker 1: had this experience. Trump gets lodged in your head. It's

221
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 1: just the way he talks and everything about him. He's

222
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,319
Speaker 1: a slow talker. It's not what he says is not complicated.

223
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 1: So you know, it's not like it's nuance. You gotta

224
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,959
Speaker 1: remember Trump's skill, and this what I'm about to say

225
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,559
Speaker 1: did not show up at all in my opinion and

226
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 1: his presidency. Trump's skill actually was to listen to you

227
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: and figure out where he could push your buttons to

228
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,680
Speaker 1: win you over. And but because you know I don't

229
00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,079
Speaker 1: like vallet parking and I don't like fire what he

230
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 1: called those things the water cast getting down waterfall waterfalls,

231
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,720
Speaker 1: and you know I don't need his hamburgers, he would

232
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,439
Speaker 1: say things like, or these not the most spirit to

233
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,680
Speaker 1: put cart paths you've ever seen in your life? Like

234
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,280
Speaker 1: I don't even like cart paths. You're asking the wrong person.

235
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 1: And then, of course you're trying to be a place.

236
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,360
Speaker 1: You say, I mean, yeah, Donald, those are the best

237
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: cart paths I've ever seen life. And then later this

238
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,000
Speaker 1: is made up. If you should write something like and

239
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,559
Speaker 1: the cart paths so ridiculous, he'll call you. So you

240
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,240
Speaker 1: said those card pass for the best two episode. Heard

241
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 1: you say so, I mean he's tricky. It's a weird

242
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,080
Speaker 1: way and fun in his own weird way. Yeah, until

243
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,640
Speaker 1: because it was all meaningless, it's just then, of course,

244
00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,480
Speaker 1: in president states yeah, I mean right, I mean because

245
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 1: I dealt with Trump a bit when he was just

246
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,200
Speaker 1: a golf guy, and he was slightly ridiculous, but he

247
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,600
Speaker 1: was fun because he's just he's the larger life character

248
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 1: and he does understand the game. He loves the game,

249
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 1: and he could expound on Christie Kerr's putting stroke, and

250
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, he really was a hardcore fan. And you know,

251
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,360
Speaker 1: I actually thought the single most nuanced thing he said

252
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 1: during his entire presidency when he was talking about the

253
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,960
Speaker 1: electoral College versus the popular vote, was that it was

254
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 1: it was like match play versus stroke play, and it

255
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 1: was genius. And when you think of it in that terms,

256
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 1: the whole thing makes sense because we all know you

257
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 1: I can shoot eight and you can shoot eight two,

258
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 1: but I can still beat you in match play. Because

259
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 1: that's the way, the best, the way it goes. And

260
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,680
Speaker 1: so anyway, that was, that was incredibly insightful. And let's

261
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,319
Speaker 1: say something like, how about the act of giving Tiger

262
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,520
Speaker 1: Woods the Presidential Medal of Freedom at age, you know,

263
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,479
Speaker 1: mid forties, because he won the Masters. Let's say Mollinary,

264
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,079
Speaker 1: you know, just about three weeks after he won the Masters,

265
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,800
Speaker 1: Let's say mollinary have played that back on better and

266
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 1: he won. Then when Trump had given uh, you know,

267
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: he gave him the Presidential Medal Freedom, the highest civilian honor,

268
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,840
Speaker 1: because he won a golf tournament. And it was good

269
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 1: for Trump. But let's leave all that aside. He had,

270
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Trump's best day as president was when

271
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,920
Speaker 1: that kid came to mow the one of the White

272
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 1: House and Trump talked about and Trump was so charming

273
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:37,720
Speaker 1: with the kid, and the kid was great that the

274
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,240
Speaker 1: Trump was great. But Trump was spectacular with Tiger Woods

275
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,160
Speaker 1: that day. And one of the things, to your point,

276
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 1: so he's reading about the teleprompter, he says, and the

277
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 1: teger had the Garden Trophy scoring outage, and then he

278
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 1: got off his little Prompterty said, and that's really saying

279
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,280
Speaker 1: something because he only plays the hardest courses. Well, that's accurate, insight.

280
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to win that now they do

281
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 1: with Justin Barten. Trump at the point being, it's harder

282
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 1: to win the Barton Trophy when you're not playing Bob

283
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 1: Hope and you know the course courses. So as you say,

284
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,320
Speaker 1: your your example was way better. But he I mean,

285
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,880
Speaker 1: that is really the old example, match versus medal for

286
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 1: electoral versus probably broke, but he's knowledgeable back off. That's

287
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 1: really the point. Yeah, And so he gets the p

288
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: g A championship in twentys you and then he runs

289
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 1: a very divisive presidential campaign. He becomes a very polarizing president,

290
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of angst in the governing bodies. Now,

291
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,280
Speaker 1: the U s J had awarded Trump the Women's Open

292
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,560
Speaker 1: at Trump Beadminister, a kind of the crown jewel in

293
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 1: his portfolio and the hill Country of New Jersey, and

294
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,840
Speaker 1: it was too late to pull the plug. So you

295
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 1: had the sitting president of the United States tweeting NonStop

296
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 1: about women's golf that week. And you and I were

297
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 1: both of that tournament, and you know the motor cade

298
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 1: but roar up and in the middle of this golf turn,

299
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: I would pop the President of the United States and

300
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 1: he's pressing flesh and he's he's greeting his members and

301
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,280
Speaker 1: he's signed autographs and it was this weird confluence of

302
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:20,400
Speaker 1: golf celebrity politics. And for the wind, he was like

303
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 1: the potmobile. Yeah, I was unbelievable promobile out wheels and yeah,

304
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 1: all of it was it was. It was ridiculous and

305
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 1: fun and whatever your feelings are about Trump, it was

306
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,800
Speaker 1: an unbelievable victory for the Women's Open because it received

307
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 1: global attention and Trump couldn't help, you know, tweeting about

308
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 1: these these obscure golfers to you know, to the political people,

309
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 1: and they had to pay attention because he was on

310
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 1: the property and this tournament was playing out. And uh,

311
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 1: of course there was the President's Cup at Liberty National

312
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 1: where he helicoptered in for the US victory. So even

313
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 1: though Trump was so incredibly polarizing, he still was hosting

314
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,879
Speaker 1: or he had a role in in these big time tournaments.

315
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 1: And then, of course January six happened, and that changed

316
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 1: things in the dying days of his presidency. So take

317
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 1: the reader through what happens. There's the Capital riots, and um,

318
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 1: of course, again golf always plays role, as the next

319
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 1: day Anika and Gary player Resid received their Presidential Medals

320
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,679
Speaker 1: of Freedom. While you know they're they're they're still cleaning

321
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,440
Speaker 1: the blood off the steps of the Capital and that's

322
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,919
Speaker 1: become part of both of their legacies. But it had

323
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 1: an impact right away on on how people felt about

324
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 1: about Trump and about his legacy and of course the

325
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,240
Speaker 1: two thousand champonship, which are on the precipice of so

326
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 1: to walk the reader through what happens in the aftermath

327
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 1: of the riots, right and and it's interesting to see

328
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 1: how the U s J played Trump versus how the

329
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 1: UM when Trump announced his candidacy with hav in two

330
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, summer two thousand fifteen, and then he made

331
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 1: those payous comments about Mexican immigrants, and the us J

332
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 1: was already getting cold feed about the guy, and they

333
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 1: sent up a couple of emissaries the us J did

334
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 1: to to try to talk to him out of having

335
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 1: the two thousand and eighteen US Women's Open the orang

336
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,879
Speaker 1: just talking about and Trump said, you know, there's no

337
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,639
Speaker 1: way I got a fucking contract. Uh. So now I

338
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 1: passed forward to his presidency and there's Charlottesville, Ruth, and

339
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,399
Speaker 1: there's everything you know, the the no fly zone for

340
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: Muslims and just you know, one thing and one thing

341
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 1: after another that could have been disqualifying Mark, and the

342
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 1: PHA America is like, well, we this guy's gonna be

343
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 1: the host. He's either going to be the former president

344
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 1: or the sitting president. Uh. And he's gonna. He's a

345
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 1: polarizing figure. Uh, but there was no question that he

346
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 1: was going to be the host of this championship. And

347
00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 1: then and then januaries and then January six comes and

348
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 1: seth wais in Florida watching an unfold and part of

349
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,160
Speaker 1: it is an intellectual exercise, and part it's just an

350
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,199
Speaker 1: instinctive that a line had been crossed from which the

351
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 1: p g A could not recover. And um, and I

352
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 1: know people have really strong opinions about this on both

353
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,760
Speaker 1: sides of it. You know, it's just a golf course.

354
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 1: From names attached to it, Why does it matter? Well,

355
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:30,680
Speaker 1: because incept was view of things Trump, the divisive president

356
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: or or ex president would co opt and become and

357
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: become much bigger than the tournament. And that would not

358
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 1: serve the PJ of America. Well, and when you think

359
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 1: about it, this this weird line. How those protests he's

360
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:49,719
Speaker 1: on January six gathered Capitol Hill and been peaceful, we

361
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,200
Speaker 1: would be playing the PGA Championship at Bedminster this week.

362
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 1: There's no question about it. It was because Trump. What

363
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: no matter what your opinion is, Trump was pinned with

364
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:10,160
Speaker 1: formenting the riot and then doing very little to quell it.

365
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: Does that sound accurate? I don't want to say anything

366
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't sound accurate. I mean, I don't want to

367
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 1: say I don't want to voice an opinion here, but

368
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 1: I would think that, you know, the broad feeling among

369
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 1: not everybody biting these but millions of people, was that

370
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 1: that that he had. He encouraged the gathering that led

371
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: to the writing and did very little to quell the

372
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 1: well the writing when when it was underway. That would

373
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 1: maybe be an understatement for that reason. He lost the

374
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: p J championship, but had those parts from peaceful and

375
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: we would have it. So, you know, people have you

376
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: and I among them. We hate the mix of politics

377
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: in sport. We go to sport to get away from

378
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 1: politics a lot of the time, maybe all the time,

379
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: but there are times when the two are so intertwined

380
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 1: you can't get away from it. And this is one

381
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 1: of those times. Yeah, And there's a long history of that.

382
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: I mean going back to you know, Jesse Owens in

383
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: the Berlin Olympics with Hitler, I mean, um, John Smith

384
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 1: and Tommy Carlos, like politics and sports have always Muhammad

385
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 1: Ali and the Vietnam Draft, like this is taking me

386
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 1: in the NFL games and Trump Trump, Trump turned that

387
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: into something political. Well, it was political, Trump turned not

388
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: more political. It's naive to say that the politics doesn't

389
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 1: have a role in sports because it's always had that role.

390
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: And while you're right, it sometimes wish it didn't. But

391
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: it's it's just it is what it is that and

392
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: it really is what it is. And the shocker to

393
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 1: me is the Trump, the Trump that I thought I

394
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: knew before he before he became a politician, ran for

395
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 1: the presidency. Was such a salesman. I thought he would

396
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: have done anything he could do to not be this

397
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: even though he's a polarizing figure you like him or

398
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 1: don't like him. I thought he would try to win

399
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: people over and and and even and all through the

400
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: presidency you saw that he wasn't like that at all,

401
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: and it caught up with him in the end. Let's

402
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: see double downs. I feel like I'm going down a

403
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: rabbitable year. But now just to finished this one though,

404
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 1: he doubled down so much with his quote base that

405
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: it ultimately cost him the thing that probably he really

406
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 1: did love in life, which is golf. And theydea of

407
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 1: being the host of this major championship. Yeah, well, and

408
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: you know the crown jewel and his portfolio really is

409
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 1: Turnberry and which we know is a spectacular golf course.

410
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: Michael I had a great match their years ago. I

411
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: had him like four down, came all the way back

412
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm won the first four holes if you

413
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: remember that, and then it was like the tortoise in

414
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: the hair. He just chased me down. But um, you

415
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 1: know that for people should be allowed to have you know,

416
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,239
Speaker 1: it's true. And Janelle was part of that group too,

417
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 1: I remember, and but anyway we digress. Yeah, I mean

418
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: for to think that Turnberry he's never going to have

419
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: a Open championship while while Donald Trump is still walking

420
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: this earth, I mean, it's it's a loss for all

421
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 1: of us. But the RNA, they've never made it up.

422
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: They've never released a policy statement about it, but they've

423
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: just kind of made it clear that as you're saying

424
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: with the p g A, and they don't want Trump

425
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: lording over the tournament. And you know, I went to

426
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: I went to some of those events at Dural after

427
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: Trump had refurbished the property, and he was everywhere and

428
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: he's on the range present flesh and his helicopter is

429
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 1: coming and going, and you can't ignore the guy when

430
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: when he's the host of the tournament. And so so,

431
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: the PGA makes this decision and all of a sudden,

432
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: you know, you're only talking about it's a very short

433
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: amount of time to to organize a major championship, which

434
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: we know is a vast undertake taking with all the

435
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: infrastructure and the corporate hospitality. So how does Southern Hills

436
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: jump to the front of the line there? Uh? From

437
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: what seth While and others saw make twenty year thirty,

438
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: they made their the pj SEPWA is you know, the

439
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: senior staff there in the PGA board made their decision

440
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: not to have the PGA Championship at Trump Petminster Um.

441
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: By the end of the weekend after the January six riots,

442
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: they send out an ap B to various clubs, do

443
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: you want to host a championship? Twenty to thirty clubs

444
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: responded the leaders in the clubhouse and what I could

445
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: pick up. We're Congressional Valhalla, which is sold by the

446
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: pack America and UH in Southern Hills and Tulsa, Pahoma. Uh.

447
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: Southern Hills had a lot going for it, one of

448
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: which is they were going to have or they were

449
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: already scheduled to have them, we're going to have senior championship.

450
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: So they had a lot of people in place, they

451
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: had a lot of corporate relationships in place. They had

452
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: a fabulous golf course. Sea have been there recently and

453
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: liked it. And um and as as one of the

454
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: members that told me they were quote major Corney, they

455
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: watched it. Uh favorite expression, I'm gonna use all of

456
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: his and as as in everything in life, you know,

457
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: when you really want to when you really really want something,

458
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's like blind love, you pursue it with

459
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: manic seal uh And and they got it. And from

460
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: from everything we're not there yet or from everything for

461
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: they're totally ready for this championship. And I actually think

462
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: Trump Beadminster, we've both been there. Have you been there? All? Yeah, yeah,

463
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: oh right, and I played it, you know several times.

464
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: It's a really good modern golf whereas it's a big

465
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: looks like you know, the second place that would very

466
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: capably hold a major championship, but it's not Southern Southern

467
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: hips is it's got involved, but especially that those those

468
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: green stock pitch shots and chip shots at Startern Hills

469
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: are spectacular, That those crown greens, everything about it, it's

470
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: a really special golf course, and that it's in Tulsa. Yeah,

471
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: it plays like a sand belt of course, you know.

472
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: And they're gonna they're gonna bake it out firm and fast,

473
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: and they've they've shaved some of the grasses down around

474
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: the greens to really highlight the recovery shots. And it's

475
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: gonna be a tremendous test. I'm I'm excited about this venue.

476
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: I was gonna say it feels a little bit like

477
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: like they just airlifted darl and put it into you know,

478
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: the Jersey hillside. There's there's just not the same level

479
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: of artfulness. And so yeah, from just a golf course standpoint,

480
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any questions that I'm greating this question.

481
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: It's such a deep at this hour day, you may

482
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: not be ready for it. Having made a study in

483
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: your in your reporting life of both Phill Nicholason and

484
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, in what ways do you see them as

485
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: some similar characters? Yeah, they are. And you know this,

486
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: this is actually not even in the book. This is

487
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: a funny story that Phil told me years ago, where

488
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: he was player of the year in college and they

489
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: had this this big all American banquet and Trump was

490
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: like the hosts. And that was when he had just

491
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: started dating Marla Maples, who Phil said was the most

492
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: beautiful woman he'd ever laid eyes on, and so um.

493
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: At some point there's some interaction and Phil or Trump.

494
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: So one of them convinces Marlo to give Phil a

495
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: kiss on the cheek, you know, for a photo or whatever.

496
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: And at the last minute, like Phil turned his face

497
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: and like kind of went like lip to lip with

498
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: with Marla Maples right in front of Trump, and Trump

499
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: loved it. You know. That's like they both have some

500
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: rascal in them. They're they're they're they like to stir

501
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: the pot. They like they enjoy the energy of the

502
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: cameras on them and their showmen in their own way.

503
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: And there's definitely some similarities there. And I was gonna

504
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: get to this. So you know, Seth was an interesting

505
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: figure because he presided over Deutsche Bank, which we know

506
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: was deeply involved in the finances of Donald Trump and

507
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: gave him hundreds of millions of dollars in loans to

508
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: help keep him afloat. Not really under Seth waws Rain,

509
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: but you know, that's that's a big line item on

510
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: on on WA's resume. And and Deutsche Bank can still

511
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: under investigation for its role in Trump's finances and so

512
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: that's an interesting piece of the puzzle there. And so

513
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: now now enter the Saudias because their their tentacles run

514
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: to everywhere. So Trump is out as for hosting any

515
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: important golf tournament for the foreseeable future. And as you

516
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: teased earlier, all of a sudden they're now mixed up

517
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: in the live golf and they're on the hook to

518
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: host two of these events that are coming up this

519
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: summer into the fall and what And of course Trump

520
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: and the Saudis go way back because he's you know,

521
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: they were some of the first buyers of this overpriced

522
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: condos and Trump Tower. And you know Trump's famous line

523
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: about the Saudias. It applies him as a real estate developer.

524
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: And even when he was president, was they pay cash?

525
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: And in his world that's king. And so he's never

526
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: really had any qualms about their their role as bad

527
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: actors on the world stage. We know that that his

528
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: son in law, Jared Kushner's text buddies with with MBS.

529
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: You know, the Crown Prince and Um. After after the

530
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: assassination of Jamaal ka Shogi Um, Trump did not come

531
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: down on the Saudis as president in a way that

532
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: many other presidents might have, you know, for assassinating a

533
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: Washington Post reporter who was a resident of the United States.

534
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: And so there's been this kinship between the ruling elite

535
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: of Saudi Arabia and Trump and his organization for a

536
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: long time. So I don't think anyone was shocked when

537
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: he signed up to host these two events. And you know,

538
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: Krishner had been over at the Saudi Internationalist this year,

539
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: pressing flesh like this has been a visible courtship. But

540
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: what can we say about this, this now more formal

541
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: alliance between Trump and the Saudis. It's an unbelievable confluence

542
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: of events. And let's bring Phillips at this conversation as well. Uh,

543
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: Phil wanted to roll Phil Uh. Trump has cultivated Nicholson

544
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: as a quote friend. In golf um fifteen years ago,

545
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: Trump was telling me how much Phil loved the driving range.

546
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: He hadn't even played the course, but Phil had been

547
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: to the driving range for an exhibition and allegedly, I

548
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: am sure It's true. I told Trump that it was

549
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: the best, told Trump that it was the best driving

550
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: range that he ever that he had ever seen. Kept it,

551
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: kept the voice message for a long time afterwards. Here

552
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: at Trump Draw, there's a villa. There's one for Tiger,

553
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: and there's one I don't know who else, Uh maybe

554
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: Gary Player, and there's and there's one for Phil. There's

555
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: a Bill Micholson villa at a Trump Darrell. So now

556
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: we've got Phil aligned with this Greg Norman series, uh,

557
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: the Live Golf series, and Trump, who started out of

558
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: options for splashy events that that he can stage at

559
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: his at his tournaments at his golf courses, is signed

560
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: up for two with events himself. Uh So it's like

561
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: everything in life. It's like when you're out of options,

562
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: what do you do. It's amazing because one thing that

563
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: that this Saudia seduction has done is it's brought home

564
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: for a lot of sports fans the insidious nature of

565
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: of the Saudi Arabian regime. I mean, I think a

566
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: lot of Americans are just not have not been tuned

567
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: into Saudi Arabia's role on the world stage, and a

568
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: lot of folks don't know are forgotten that fifteen of

569
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: the nineteen eleven hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, and that

570
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: there's there's there's it was just a news break a

571
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: week ago. You know. The evidences has always been there,

572
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: and it's been buried in classified documents. It was redacted

573
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: from the nine eleven Commission report. But the Saudi Arabian

574
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: government was materially supporting some of the hijackers, and those

575
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: links are just growing stronger. Is more proof emerges, and

576
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: and Saudi Arabia it you know, if you follow, if

577
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: you follow Brandle Shamble's Twitter feed and other places, Satty

578
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: Braby has become so toxic in the public imagination. It

579
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: hasn't changed, but people are more more tuned into you know,

580
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: they just execute eighty one people in the town square, um,

581
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: and things of that nature. And so that Trump would

582
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: would so happily sign on at this moment, I think

583
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: it does reveal a desperation. It's a tone deafness, you know,

584
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: just it's like read the room. I mean, um, is

585
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: it that important to host a golf tournament? I mean,

586
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: he still is a He's present United States, and it

587
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: just feels wildly inappropriate for him to be hosting these events.

588
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: But um, I guess Trump has passed the point of

589
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: really caring, right right, you people, this is not a

590
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: political statement. It's gonna sound like one people get down

591
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: on the bomb if we're hanging out with Bruce Springsteening

592
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: do podcasts with them, or down in Clinton for writing

593
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: a murder mystery. What is that compared to what you

594
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: just said. It's not even on the same scale. No, No,

595
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting because I mean, we all know this

596
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: is just blatant sports washing and that you know, the

597
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: Saudis don't really care about golf. What they're trying to

598
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: do is launder their reputation on the world stage. And

599
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, the people who take their money are complicit,

600
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: and so it's really it's really a wild moment in

601
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: professional golf. And of course Phil is at the center

602
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: of it. It's been that way for a while. Now,

603
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: what's your what's your guests? I'm starting, but I know

604
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: people are gonna want to know what's your insight into

605
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: why Phil is not playing this week? Let's start there.

606
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: So I think you have to go to his the

607
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: final paragraph of his February you know statement you can't

608
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: call it an apology because it wasn't really an apology.

609
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: You know, he made himself both the hero and the

610
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: victim of that statement. But um, you know that last

611
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: paragraph we talked about I've let people down, Yeah, and

612
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: I need to become a better man and prioritize the

613
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: people I love. That doesn't have much to do with

614
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: with Saudi Arabia or golf tournaments. You know, there's there's

615
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: deeper things at work here. And Phil's playing a lot

616
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: of golf around San Diego. I've actually been sent some

617
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: photos and videos that I haven't posted because it just

618
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: felt a little invasive. But the he you know, he's

619
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: playing Metro Santa Fe, he's playing the farms, he's playing

620
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: the bridges. So it's not like he's hurt. It's not

621
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: like he doesn't have a zest for golf. I just

622
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: think he's not ready to return to public life and

623
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: the scrutiny. And you know, there's gonna be a come

624
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: to Jesus moment where he's going to have to get

625
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: in front of the world and and talk about these

626
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: last few months and some of his decision making and

627
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: some of his motivations to to get mixed up with

628
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: the Saudi's in the first place, and I think he's

629
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: just trying to defer that, and so I don't think

630
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: he's just you know, I've talked about this before, but

631
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, the aftermath of the book excerpt and when

632
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: Phil went into exile, you know, someone extremely close to

633
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: him use the word suspend and talking about you know,

634
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: he said, now the tour wants to suspend him, and

635
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: then they went dark on me. So whether whether he's

636
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: suspended he's on a voluntary leave of absence really just

637
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: becomes a matter of semantics. But clearly a tour told

638
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: them it was time to go away for a while.

639
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: But there's not really any scenario where that would include

640
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: the PGA Championship because the PGA of America does not

641
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: have to honor that suspension. Phil is the defending champion.

642
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: He's exempted into their tournament. And if you were to

643
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: return to golf at Southern Hills, that's that would become

644
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: an event that transcends sports. It would be amazing for

645
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: their tournament to be at the center of that. I mean,

646
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: this is an organization that really has two events a

647
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: year that keeps the whole thing afloat the PGA Championship

648
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: well and then of the writer comphiches every other year,

649
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: and um, you know, the money generated by by by

650
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: these events, it's massively important to the PGA of America

651
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: and so they would have loved to have Fill there

652
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: and it would have been an incredible spotlight. So I

653
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: don't you know, I think this was entirely up to Fill.

654
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: The Masters was a little more nuanced that was earlier.

655
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: That was a little closer to the whole thing. Um,

656
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: when the news broke and if it was say a

657
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: ninety day leave slash suspense, and that that would have

658
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: included the Masters. And because the PGA Tour has always

659
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: been very good to Augusta National, they were going to

660
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: honor that one way or the other, through back channel

661
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: communications or anything they had to do. But I think

662
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: this is entirely Phil's decision, and you know, I think

663
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: he's also maybe buying time to see how it's going

664
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: to play out with the Saudias. You know. Now, um,

665
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: the tours denied releases to the players to go over

666
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: there and play for this first event in London the

667
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: week for the U S Open, So that requires a

668
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: lot of strategizing. Who's gonna break the blockade. You know,

669
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 1: eight PGA tour members are going to show up there

670
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: and test the waters and see what end probably touch

671
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: off litigation. Is it going to be Phil? Is he

672
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: waiting for someone else to raise their hand? I just

673
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: think there's there's so much up in the air right

674
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: now that from his perspective, he just wanted to let

675
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: things cool down. Um. And you know, of course my

676
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: book does drop Tuesday, the PGA Championship week, and that

677
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: that was that date was picked basically when Phil put

678
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: it out in the ocean course. You know, it was

679
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: always gonna come out that week, and that was long

680
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: before he called me and told me all the secrets.

681
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: And UM, it's just I don't know if you know.

682
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: I sent Phil the book weeks ago now and just said, hey,

683
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: you know this is factors in your decision. Here's the book.

684
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: You'll know what's in it. There's no more earthquakes like

685
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: the Saudi stuff, you know. Um. I wasn't trying to

686
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: influence his decision, but just allow him to be informed.

687
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 1: If he was worried about what was to come. It's like, well,

688
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: here's the book, you can make your own decision. I

689
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: didn't hear anything back, but so it's it's wild. I mean,

690
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: I do think this is such a crossroads for Phil

691
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: Mickelson because sports fans love a comeback and they love

692
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: a redemption story, and you know, we are a forgiving nation. Um.

693
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: I can't remember which golfer said that I'm talking about

694
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: about Phil, but um it was Big Jack. Yeah, And

695
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: you know he's right, and so people are, you know,

696
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: Phil's done his time. People are ready to cheer for

697
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: him again. But it gets very complicated if if he

698
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: goes all in with the Saudi's at that point, he's

699
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: going to burn up a lot of good will and

700
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: a lot of fans are not going to forgive him,

701
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: because then it really does become about greed and money.

702
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: And he's already shared, you know, his innermost feelings, and

703
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: he knows they're bad people, and he knows the money's dirty,

704
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: he still takes it. That really complicates his comeback. And

705
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: so I think Phil's trying to figure all this stuff out.

706
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: And you know the fact that the Saudi event is

707
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: the week for the US Open, which we all know,

708
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, has been such an important tournament and fills

709
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: life and his legacy, and he's still dangerous at this

710
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: age and um, you know, he was out of the

711
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: US Open field and now he's back. Now he's back

712
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: in it, you know, for five years because of the

713
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: PGA Championship wins. So he's bought himself, you know, one

714
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: last round to try and get the missing jewel in

715
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: the crown. Like it's it's amazing how this has played out.

716
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: So I feel like Phil wants to play the Saudi

717
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: events because he needs to sort of validate this, this insurrection. Um.

718
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: Not to use another word that could be applied to

719
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 1: January six, but he um, you know, if he walks away,

720
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: now it's like what was all this about? And I

721
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: do think he wants the money. He might need the money,

722
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: so it's um. At the same time, I think he

723
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: knows that it will complicate his legacy and it's a

724
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: monumental decision. I just don't think he's made up his

725
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: mind and so like it just made sense to himself.

726
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: Another month here, it was extremely nuance stancre. There's so

727
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: much in there that was very well done out and

728
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: uh uh start to cut to the chase and we

729
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: don't know this because we're not for instanc accounts here,

730
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: but if if if you're weighing legacy versus cash flow problems.

731
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying we know, because we don't. Cash

732
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: flow problems will win out. If you're starting and you

733
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: can see all low for bread, you're gonna see a

734
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: lot low for bread um. And of course that that's

735
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: a very crude analogy, and viewed that way, despite all

736
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: the nuances, he said, it would be hard to mention him.

737
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: He's got to do something with the rest of his life.

738
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: And you know, it's like what Warren Buffett said, you

739
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: know recently. You know, how do you I think it

740
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: was Buffett, how do you compensate? Or how do you

741
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: how do how do you get a handle on inflation?

742
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: Double down? And the thing that you're good at me

743
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: because you know that the thing that he's good at

744
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: is playing golf in front of people now, as you

745
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: exly said. But if he loses a lot of fans

746
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: along the way by ling down with the Saudias, it

747
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: means to kind of lose the thing that makes his

748
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: paid to possible in the first place, and that would

749
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: lead to questions of to get the worsements again and

750
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: everything else. On the other hand, the Saudis some games,

751
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: so much money, it doesn't matter. Uh yeah, there's so

752
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: much going on your I know, But for for a

753
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: consummate showman who always who thrives on the energy of

754
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: the crowd, Like what kind of crowds are they going

755
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: to have at these Saudi events? You know, it's it's

756
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: gonna be sparse. You know, the ticket prices are really high.

757
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 1: I would I thought that they would just let people

758
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: in for free, but they're definitely they're definitely appealing to

759
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: a certain demographic, and so they're gonna feel like, you know,

760
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: it's a shotgun star. It's fifty four. Hold, They're already

761
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: doing things. They're going to diminish the the feeling of

762
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: a big time golf tournament, and you add small fans

763
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: and sort of second rate venues to it. It just

764
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: feels a little sad. You know. It's like it's like

765
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: Jake LaMotta here doing Vegas lounge acts at the tail

766
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: end of his career. I mean, Phil Mickelson is the

767
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: defending campion of the PGA Championship. He can he can

768
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: play Revere, he can play Pebble Beach, he can play

769
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: all you know, colonial all his favorite places where he's

770
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 1: he's one and he's he's revered and he's beloved, and

771
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: to give that up to go and and look at

772
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,479
Speaker 1: I mean even Greg Norman, who It's interesting because Phil

773
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: and Greg have never really been friends, but they are

774
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: kind of kindred spirits, and they each of have had

775
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: their battles with the tour and they're kind of these

776
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: iconic class there. They like to think of themselves as

777
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: rebels and pleaded pants. I mean, there's a lot of

778
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: overlap in their personalities and even the way they play

779
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: the game. You know, aggressive slash, reckless cost Norman a

780
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: lot of majors. It certainly costs Phil a few. Um

781
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: so it's almost like somewhat inevitable they would team up

782
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: on this. But Norman has made himself such a pariah

783
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: in this this last act of his his golfing life,

784
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: and his comments week after week about the Saudi's have

785
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: just been increasingly ridiculous us And you know, it feels like,

786
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: is this a guy I'm gonna throw in with? Like,

787
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: am I gonna hitch my entire professional life to Greg Norman?

788
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: Like he's got to be wondering about that as he

789
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: watches from the sideline. It's just then, once the option

790
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: double down on the Senior Tour, and he's bored up

791
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: a soons like he's bored out of his mind. There

792
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: maybe not, but I don't know. I mean, I think

793
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: if he if he, if he comes back and says,

794
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: you know, I thought that I was being a really

795
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: kg businessman here. I had, I had leverage. I was

796
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: trying to affect change to help all professional golfers. I

797
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: was trying to reshape the landscape so it would, you know,

798
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: bring us into the two thousand and twenties. And I

799
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: was thinking about all my colleagues, and you know, I

800
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: might have overplayed my hands slightly. I've thought about it

801
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: the I don't feel comfortable taking the Saudi money. I

802
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: love the PGA Tour. It's been an amazing platform for me.

803
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna come back play my schedule. I'm here

804
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: to sign autographs and make birdie's and make people smile,

805
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm glad this chapter of my life

806
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: is over and let's just play golf. I think people

807
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, right on, man, hell yeah, let's go

808
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: go Phil. And I don't think it would be that hard.

809
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: And I may hit some bombs for you, hit some

810
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: bombs you know I'll be I'll continue to beat my

811
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: stick on social media, which people enjoy, like, uh, you know,

812
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: as I bump into into casual golf fans at Pacific Grove,

813
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: Muni and other places sitting on airplanes, a lot of

814
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: people can't. They want me to explain why is why

815
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 1: is Phil in exile? It doesn't even they don't even

816
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: get it. They're not falling at that carefully. You know,

817
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: you and I follow this stuff forensically, but the average

818
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: golf fan, many of them are just confused, like what

819
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: did you do that was wrong? Because there is an

820
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: element of hypocrisy where every other golfer takes the Saudi

821
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: money and they get they get away with it, and

822
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: Formula one races over there and every a million other

823
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: sports and um, you know, Lee Westwood's out there, uh

824
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: how talking about how excited he is to go play

825
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: for the Saudi and he's kind of ska it on it,

826
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: like why Phil? You know, he kind of strayed off

827
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: the script where he was too blunt and he was

828
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: too honest, and you know, we all roll our eyes

829
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: when Dustin Johnson says, I'm just over there to grow

830
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: the game, and I'm a I'm an athlete, not a politician, like,

831
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: but that's the script and if you stay on it,

832
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: people will give you a pass because it's been it's

833
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: proven effective through the years. Now. But but Phil, you know,

834
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: he said the quiet parts out loud and so um

835
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: it's nevertheless, I mean, professional athletes, professional golfers have done

836
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: far worse and and been embraced again. And so fans

837
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: are ready to cheer for Phil. They want to cheer

838
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: for Phil and um, but if he goes all into

839
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: the Saudias, he gets a lot harder. So this is

840
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: really a monumental decision for him. And um, you know,

841
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: I think I think this PG Championship was just a

842
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: casualty and the decision making processes. He's still trying to

843
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: sort all this stuff out. And one of the things

844
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: that's last year is how correct he use about a

845
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: lot of things. Um, you know, the weekend a week

846
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: out of somebody to hold strokeplay events. Um, the Peck

847
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: Tour is often very boring in my opinion. And uh,

848
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: and team golf as a concept, cohole golf as a concept, Um,

849
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: they may work, they may not work. But you know,

850
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:18,959
Speaker 1: you and I have tried things in our writing lines.

851
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. You really can't

852
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: kick people for trying something new, which of course is

853
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: what's happening here because of the overlord said of being

854
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: the Saudis. But uh well, and the whole yeah, that

855
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: the PGA tour product has gotten stale as an organization,

856
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: it's very lumbering and way behind the times when it

857
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: comes to media stuff. You know, their streaming app is

858
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: still a mess after all these years. Their social media

859
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: is terrible, like because they haven't had competition. They've the

860
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: tour has grown complacent and the Saudis have provided that

861
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: that spark and all of a sudden things are happening

862
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: at the tour and they've been spurred to change, which

863
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: was kind of Fils larger points all along. And that

864
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 1: is one of the tragedies in this is that he

865
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: was he did have some very valid points and he

866
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: actually was winning some of these political battles behind the scenes,

867
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: and all that's kind of been lost. But you know,

868
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: Phil saw himself as this agent of change and in

869
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: some ways he was effective, but you know, he set

870
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: himself on fire through his his his bluntness and I

871
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: guess his callousness and um but he is going to

872
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: be a legacy from all of this where Phil did

873
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: force the tour to evolve. He may never get the

874
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: credit for it, but and he knows, and he's never

875
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: gonna forget that. And I think that's important to him

876
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: and his personality needs to be right. And I think

877
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: that's also one of the things that's drawing him towards

878
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: the South East is that he still wants to ticket

879
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: to the tour like he had all these grievances. Then

880
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: they you know, they forced him on the sideline for

881
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: for airing his grievances. So you know, he's a guy

882
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: who loves to double down, whether it's in Vegas or

883
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: it's on the golf course. And the ultimate double down

884
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: MOVI here is to go into the Saudias and say,

885
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 1: look to the tour, like I gave you thirty plus

886
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: years and I didn't get much back other than you know,

887
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: the money I won. But I had to build my

888
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 1: brand on my own and I still don't have my

889
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: my media and digital rights and all these things he

890
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 1: cares about, and so m he'll get he can get

891
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: those things from the Saudias. And I think that that

892
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: that's part of the appeal is he needs to be right,

893
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: he needs to win this battle, and if he kind

894
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 1: of goes back to the tour with his tail between

895
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: his legs, it'll feel like he lost. So it's complex.

896
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: Do you think I'll play the US? Maybe because at

897
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: that point the Saudi question will have been answered. Who's

898
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: gonna play? Who's going to break the blockade? Um is

899
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: litigation has that? Has that been touched off? So I

900
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 1: think that that becomes more likely. But um, I don't know.

901
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: There's people who think he's never gonna play another event

902
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 1: outside of the LIBS series, which would be wildly tragic.

903
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: Can you imagine Phil not at Augusta, like, you know,

904
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: all the things that were on the table for him

905
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: to be an honorary starter for the Masters, to be

906
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: in a TV tower, you know, making Tony Romo money,

907
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 1: Like these things are still these things are still available

908
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: to fill. I mean there's again, Tiger Woods put his

909
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,919
Speaker 1: his family, his fans and the game through much worse

910
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: than Phil Michelson has from the narrow standpoint of the

911
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: Todderinus of the scandal. And you know, Phil broke some

912
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 1: unwritten rules. We didn't break any laws like Tiger did

913
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: with his d U I and Tiger has never been

914
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: more beloved. There is a roadback for Phil, but he

915
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: has to me very careful what he does when it

916
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 1: comes to saudiast because that can evaporate and and those things,

917
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: those opportunities can disappear because the lovers of power have

918
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: kind of rallied around the PGA tourn very subtle ways,

919
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: and they don't want the Saudis to become a part

920
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: of professional golf. And much like the RNA does not

921
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: want to give an open to Trump, they do not

922
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 1: want to give the Saudis a seat at the table.

923
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: And so these things are being expressed behind closed doors.

924
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: But the little moves they're making, like for instance, you

925
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 1: know the Live Golf series, you know they buy into

926
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: or the Saudis buy into the Asian Tour with this

927
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 1: this two million dollar investment, and all of a sudden,

928
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 1: the RNA clawback that that automatic exemption into the open

929
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: for the leading money winner on the Asian Tour. And

930
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: that was a very subtle thing that golf fans and

931
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: even noticed, but it was it was a message like

932
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: we are not on your side and we're going to

933
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: try and protect our own. And so it's um It's

934
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 1: really an unparalleled moment in professional golf, and somehow inevitably

935
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: Michelson and Trump are in the middle of it. You know,

936
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: your your story about Jack that's on fire, but Collective

937
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: dot Com now you know Jack Nicholas is part of

938
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,760
Speaker 1: it too. To tell the listeners what what the offer

939
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: was for Jack to get involved with the saudis well

940
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: telling me. I think Jackman is a part of it

941
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:12,919
Speaker 1: by not being part of it. And uh, and that's

942
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: sort of what, you know, one of the points they

943
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: tried tried to make him the story. But you know,

944
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: in Tiger and in Trump, you really have to disruptive

945
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: people who sort of thrived on chaos. I mean, for

946
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 1: those of us who watched Phil's career unfold, he thrived

947
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: on chaos on the golf course, you know, when things

948
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: weren't really haywire um, something in his psyche let him

949
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: pull things off in really exciting ways. And Trump thrived

950
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: in the chaos too. And this is the most most

951
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: chaotic moment. I mean, I've been founding him a long time,

952
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: but people have been flying far longer than I say.

953
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: They've never seen a period of total chaos in the

954
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: game as it is now and it's just so telling

955
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: that that Trump and Phil are at the center of

956
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: the chaos. To answer your question, Jack most decidedly is not.

957
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: And and one of the things that Nicholas told me,

958
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: and he he first brought this up while talking in

959
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: a large public setting at the Honda Classic, people just

960
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: didn't pick up on it, or the public didn't pick

961
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: up on it um was that he was offered in access,

962
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: as he told me, and excess of a hundred million

963
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 1: dollars by the Saudi overlords. So this of this golf

964
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: league before Greg Norman got involved, to play this sort

965
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: of chairman um face of the tour, and and he

966
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: said no. And I think by saying no, what he

967
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 1: was saying is there's not enough money in the world

968
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: for me to do that because the pg Tour made me.

969
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: I have two events on the PJ Tour, the Memorial

970
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: Tournament and to a lesser degree, the Honda Classic, that

971
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: are that contributed charities that that are important. You may

972
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: and that's of course part of it as well, But

973
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: what but what you really when I really thought about

974
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: what this commons where you know why I say no

975
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: it a hundred million dollars is because he repreates even

976
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: though he's close to Trump and he's and he's good,

977
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: has a good relationship with Bill. He represents an American

978
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: value system that and I may be romanticizing it here,

979
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: but it's rooted in civility, in common ground, in not

980
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: being so divisive. Um. And that's not these times, um,

981
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: you know when we see it with how Monahan is

982
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: responding to this threat, and it's understandable Monahan doing what

983
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: he's doing. Um. But so when you say, you know,

984
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: you know big Jazz cut a roller, Yeah, Big Jack

985
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: has a role here by by showing that money shouldn't

986
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: always carry the day, except for the fact money almost

987
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: always does, so it's carried the day. And even in

988
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 1: Nicholas's case, Nicholas and an old Palmber and others, they

989
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: created the modern PGA Tour by doing in a way,

990
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: in a way what Phil wants to do here, which

991
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: is they broke away from the PJA of America, the

992
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 1: host of this week's Sortament and an event that that

993
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: that Nicholas won five times in to create the PGA Tour.

994
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: But these things are so nuanced because it's not just

995
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: what you do, it's how you do and what you say,

996
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: and in the stances that you take in public and

997
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: a certain a certain civil code that is very much

998
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: liking now and that really is a bedrock, exactly asset

999
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: of of what golf has, and we've seen it in

1000
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: other golfing areas because really, the the ethic that I

1001
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: observed and one of the things that drew me in

1002
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: the game in the well forever, really is that the

1003
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: fund and you and I talked about this not the

1004
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: fundamental starting point of competitive golf is strict, strict adherence

1005
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: to the rules, and once you start taking having attitude

1006
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: of every man for himself in terms of oh can

1007
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: I push this rule or not, we were really getting

1008
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: away from the core value of what golf is in

1009
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: the first place. And unfortunately, um, you've seen that happen.

1010
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: We've all seen that happen in professional golf to some

1011
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: degree limited other cases are but they're happen cases, and

1012
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: we're seeing that more broadly as well. We're seeing a

1013
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: certain lawlessness and sort of gets back to the point

1014
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: I tried to make earlier that when you see those protesters,

1015
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: it's a fundamental American right to protest peace and to

1016
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: complain and demonstrate. No your displeasure with what our government

1017
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: is doing. There's nothing wrong with that. But when they

1018
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: but when they went in there with ramming irons and

1019
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 1: started breaking winners and doors and threatening people and people

1020
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: and getting people up and people and causing mayhem and fatalities,

1021
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: then of course you crossed the line. And that was

1022
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: the line that law responded to both intellectually animals. But

1023
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: it is interesting because you know, Jack has been building

1024
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: a golf course in Saudi Arabia, and so he's it

1025
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: is it is nuanced as you to use your word,

1026
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: but I guess the differences that was just a little

1027
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: project for his company to take on this role for

1028
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 1: for live golf would be work not subverting the PGA

1029
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: tour and really again creating this this this dividing line

1030
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: in the whole game. And so Jack could he's made

1031
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: peace with whatever he has to do to take take

1032
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: the money from the Saudias and his designing life, but

1033
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: um to to subvert the entire world order professional golf

1034
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: that he didn't want to go down that road. So

1035
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: it is telling in its own way. And of course

1036
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: among celebrity and among big time athletes, Jack was one

1037
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: of the most prominent voices in endorsing Trump reelection, right

1038
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: and so, and you know Mike Pence's staff wrote that

1039
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: statement he put out and uh so, it's it's complex.

1040
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,919
Speaker 1: These tentacles run through so many different ways, from from

1041
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 1: Trump to the Saudias, through Jack through Phil. And that's

1042
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: what I loved about your story is that it brought

1043
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: it all together and it's a framework to understand, as

1044
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: you said, this extremely chaotic moment. And um, it just

1045
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: you just wonder is anyone going to survive this? You know,

1046
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: Phil has been besmirched, Norman has um like maybe maybe

1047
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: Ja Monahan is going to emerge as as the good

1048
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: guy and all of this. Maybe maybe by you know,

1049
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: Jack civil disobedience here or not taking the money. I

1050
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: think that's probably redeemed him for some fans and um,

1051
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: but it's like this has gotten so messy and the

1052
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: um it's what what gives this jittery feeling is not

1053
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: knowing what's next. I mean I was on pins and

1054
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: needles waiting for Phil to announce the p g A

1055
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: and not. We know he's not going to be there,

1056
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: but we still don't know what's next. When is he

1057
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: gonna return to public life? Is he gonna play the

1058
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: Saudi of is he gonna play the US Open? He

1059
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: is gonna play in St. Andrews. Like there's just all

1060
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: these different mile posts out there and we don't know

1061
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. And um, we still don't know

1062
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: how these terms are gonna play out. Who's gonna show

1063
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: up for them? When when you know the saudiast start starting,

1064
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, handing out the money, Like that's just the

1065
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: uncertainty and and almost the chaos is really unparalleled, and

1066
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: I guess such a fascinating moment. It's really easy for

1067
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: any of us for you know, you and I on

1068
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: this conversation. Two, this is sound harsh, but to take

1069
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: this wholier than now position, what would any of us

1070
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: do of NBS showed a better door, like uh, you know,

1071
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: like in one of those gangster movies that you know,

1072
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: I'll pay you a hundred million dollars to your house.

1073
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: You got to move out today. I would like to

1074
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: think I would say no, but I don't know that

1075
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: I would. Um, you know, well, on I mean on

1076
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: a small scale, you know, as the at the here

1077
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: at the at the collective, we do a lot of

1078
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: fun travel stories and we've been to Scotland, We've been

1079
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: to Ireland and Kauai and all these boards of tourism

1080
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: are are well funded by the governments and they want

1081
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: they want us to help tell their story and that's

1082
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: part of our business. And and then it's you know,

1083
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: obviously Matchinell has been in the travel space for a

1084
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: long time and he's great at those videos, and we

1085
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: have these talented technicians and um we we say yes,

1086
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's part of our business. But you know,

1087
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: the Saudis did make some fuelers a long time ago,

1088
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: in the early days of the collective, and uh, you know,

1089
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 1: we're all proud to say the answer was, no, we're

1090
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 1: not going to go over there and do a fun,

1091
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: breezy story about you know, golf and Saudi Arabia. And

1092
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: as a as a upstart company that needs revenue, you know,

1093
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to say no to anyone who wants to

1094
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: write a big check. But you do have to have

1095
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: a code and um so I mean that that's that's

1096
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: just one of our bedrock principles. We're just not going

1097
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: to take the Saudi money in any scenario. And um

1098
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: they it now. It was a hundred million dollars I'll

1099
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: say that so um as as I guess get more

1100
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: Commas than Zeros, it gets it gets harder to say no.

1101
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: But at some point you just got to decide what

1102
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,919
Speaker 1: your value system is, right, right right? I think that's

1103
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: what Nicholas showed. Now he is eighty two and blah

1104
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: blah blah, but I think that is ultimately what Nicholas showed.

1105
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: And what's interesting about this week. We're going to have

1106
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: a great week of golf. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday will

1107
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: all be about the golf. There's no one separating themselves

1108
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: from the crowd, your solciers and different personalities, so you're like,

1109
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: we're not there different personalities. Um think you know, Major

1110
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: Championship golf is engaging and it will be a pleasure

1111
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: not to have to think about this stuff for four days.

1112
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: But I think it's also important to remember that underneath

1113
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: this stuff is bubbling and it's not going anywhere, and

1114
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: really there's a vacuum of leadership right now. And you

1115
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: can say we wanted about Joe d Or or Deem

1116
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: Beamon or anybody or anybody else, but staid aside from

1117
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 1: Monahan in a way and Fred Lee at Augusta in

1118
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: a way. I mean, there are some good people leading

1119
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: in the game right now, Mike want with U s

1120
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: g A. But there's no overarching generational sense of we're golf,

1121
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 1: this is the way we do things. I know I

1122
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: romanticize Arnold probably as a person in his career as well,

1123
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: But I've said this many times. Arnold he never he

1124
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: was a big major figure. He had a big ego,

1125
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: He made hundreds of millions of dollars from golf. His

1126
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: starting principle was I am not bigger than the game,

1127
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: and it served him well and it was authentic and

1128
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: that is missing right now. Um. And it's troubling for

1129
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: those of us who love the game and who can

1130
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: sort of see that while we play this, while this

1131
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 1: four days of good tournament golf is going on, there

1132
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: are nefarious things bubbling underneath it. Yeah, well I think

1133
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: that's that's a great ending point. And how do you

1134
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: like what you said? We had to we had to

1135
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: address all this stuff. It's it's very important context for

1136
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: this golf tournament. Um. And as the week goes on,

1137
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: we'll we'll we'll focus more on people who are here,

1138
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 1: including guying Tiger Woods. We hardly touched on in this

1139
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: preview piece, but what we'll get to him. Tiger is

1140
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: going to have his moment on on the Fire Drill

1141
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: podcast for sure. But um, thank you for thank you

1142
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: for all your insight here, Michael. Thank you a pleasure. Yeah,

1143
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: And I would definitely if somehow you wound up on

1144
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: this podcast and you didn't have a chance to read

1145
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: Michael story, I'd really encourage you to do it because

1146
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: it's a big deal for us to be publishing Michael

1147
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: and you know, on fire but Collective dot com and

1148
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: it's really this is a kind of reporting that we

1149
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: want to do on this platform and it's no holds

1150
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: barred and it's honest and it's real. So um, anyway,

1151
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: it's a highlight for us to have that. Thank you great.

1152
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: So all right, thanks for listening. We will be doing

1153
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: Fire Drill Podcast pretty much every day from from Tulsa,

1154
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: and please tune in for those This is Alan Schipnuk,

1155
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: that's Michael Bamberger. We're out of here. Thank you.