1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: Hi. 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 3: My name is Brandon Densmore and in twenty fourteen, I 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 3: died from a heroin overdose. I had a near death 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 3: experience that totally transformed my life and since twenty fourteen, 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: my life has never been the same. I knew I 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 3: needed to take the opportunity to share some of these 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 3: things because I. 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 4: Know that people need to hear this. 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 3: We see drug addicts, we see homeless people, and we 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: tend to judge them at face value. But what we 13 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 3: don't understand is there's reasons why people are the way 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 3: they are. 15 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous account 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people his lives were 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death. 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories 20 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please 21 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering 22 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: for some listener, and discretion is advised. 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: I was born in New Bedford, Massachusetts. My mom left 24 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: my dad before I was born. My dad had a 25 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 3: really bad temper, so she was trying to She wanted 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: to get me out of that kind of an atmosphere 27 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: and raise me in a better place. I was raised 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: as Jehovah's witness and developed a faith in God. The 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: concept and the Bible really fascinated me, especially things like 30 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 3: the Book of Revelation and the different visuals like the 31 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 3: monsters and things, the beasts, the multi headed dragon in 32 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 3: the Book of Revelation and the Book of Ezekiel. But 33 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 3: I mean I was learning about that kind of thing 34 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 3: like demons and angels and the spiritual realm from a 35 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 3: very young age. I have this memory of being I 36 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 3: don't know how old. I was maybe five in my 37 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: bed and I had this spiritual experience where it felt 38 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: like I was being attacked by something demonic. My bed 39 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: was like shaking, and I was half asleep. 40 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 4: My bed was shaking. 41 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 3: I felt these like hands on me and they were 42 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: almost like tickling me or something like in my ribs, and. 43 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: I called out to Jehovah. 44 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: I said Jehovah like I could barely speak. I was 45 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: so terrified, but I said Jehovah, and then everything went 46 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 3: away and stopped and never happened again. Maybe it was 47 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: a dream, but it seemed very real to me at 48 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 3: the time. 49 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 4: I had faith that Jehovah was real. 50 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: I believed it, and I called on the power and 51 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 3: it resolved the issue immediately. But I was very much 52 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: sheltered as a child, and you know, contained in this religion, 53 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 3: and I learned a lot of values from the faith, 54 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: like not stealing, telling the truth, and even went out 55 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: in the field ministry, going door to door with my. 56 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 4: Mom quite often. 57 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: Around seven years old, my dad comes back into my 58 00:03:54,200 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 3: life and he fought for custody, and what ended up 59 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 3: happening was that he won the court case and was 60 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: given custody. So I would go and see him on 61 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 3: the weekends and I would say that like things were 62 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: good with my dad. But when I was eight years old, 63 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 3: I was brought over to one of his friend's houses 64 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: and they were getting ready. They were going to go 65 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: to a party that night. So I meet the people 66 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: there and one of them is this sixteen year old guy, 67 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 3: and he's really cool, right, like he took me under 68 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 3: his wing. He showed me like fireworks. And I had 69 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: been pretty sheltered up to this point, I'd never seen fireworks, 70 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 3: let alone held fireworks, and I thought they were fascinating 71 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: and fun. And we've set them off and he let 72 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 3: me light the fireworks and it was a great time. 73 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 3: I had like the best day of my life. Like 74 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 3: he let me light the fireworks and took me down 75 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: to a pond and we caught all these frogs and 76 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 3: had a ball and he laughed played with me, and 77 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: I felt really like privileged to be friends with this 78 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: sixteen year old guy. He's like double my age, right, 79 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 3: and I felt special, and I came to see him 80 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 3: as like a role model, Like this guy is just 81 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 3: really cool. 82 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 4: I looked up to him. 83 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 3: I thought, Wow, this guy is just awesome. 84 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 4: He's like my new best friend. Dad. 85 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 3: Mom. They were getting ready and they were going out 86 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 3: with his parents. My step mom was putting on her makeup, 87 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 3: and they told me they weren't going to be back 88 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: till the next morning, so they all left. And then 89 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: that night I was molested. 90 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 4: By this guy. I lasted for. 91 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 3: Hours and hours pretty much all night, on, off and on. 92 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 3: And this is the part that I've never really told anyone, 93 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 3: is that I was eight years old and this was 94 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 3: the first time that I'd ever had an erection, and 95 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 3: I remember not understanding what it was. He made me 96 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 3: promise not to tell anyone. It wasn't like I was 97 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: enjoying the process, but it was like, you know, the 98 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 3: erection is just when you're eight years old and you're 99 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: touched like that, It just happens. 100 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 4: You don't have any control over it. 101 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 3: I was just, you know, I had been very much sheltered, 102 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 3: and like anytime there was a sex scene on television 103 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 3: or like my mom would change the chaince or if 104 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 3: it was in a movie, she would fast forward the movie. 105 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 3: And it was not something that was talked about in 106 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: our family. It was very much associated with shame, being dirty. 107 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 4: It's not right. 108 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: So I remember I wasn't I didn't understand what was happening. 109 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: I didn't even know what that was, like why it 110 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: was the case. And I asked him to stop. I 111 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: knew that it didn't feel right, and I asked him 112 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: to stop over and over again, but he was persistent 113 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: and wouldn't stop and continued, and I couldn't protect myself. 114 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 3: So after this all happened, I didn't talk for three days. 115 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: My mom obviously knew something was wrong. My step mom 116 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: and Dad came back the next day and gave me 117 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 3: a ride home to my mom, and I didn't talk 118 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 3: and didn't talk for two days. After I got home 119 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 3: to see my mom. She knew something was wrong. She 120 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: was trying to figure it out. She was asking me 121 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 3: questions after question after question, and I just wouldn't talk. 122 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: And then she said did somebody did somebody touch you 123 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 3: in a sexual way? And I still didn't reply, and 124 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 3: then she said, touch my shoulder if somebody touched you, 125 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 3: and I reached up and touched her shoulder. 126 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 4: I think I was just. 127 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 3: In so much shock and pain that I could couldn't speak. Somebody, 128 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: somebody gets you to trust them and makes you feel 129 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 3: special and then just. 130 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 4: Crushes you. 131 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: Like you're a piece of garbage. That's how I felt. 132 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: I felt angry, betrayed, and couldn't speak about it with 133 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 3: anyone because my dad had just come back into my 134 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 3: life and I didn't feel totally comfortable with him, and 135 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: he wasn't there, you know, to guide me through this. 136 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 3: I couldn't speak about it with my mom because there 137 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 3: was this religious kind of stigma about sexuality. She got 138 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 3: me counselors and things like that, but I just didn't 139 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 3: feel comfortable opening up, and it was too painful for 140 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: me to comprehend or process, so I just kind of 141 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 3: stuffed it down and dealt with it the best I could, 142 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 3: tried to forget about it. I didn't feel comfortable in 143 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: my own skin. I saw the world as a dangerous place. 144 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 3: I no longer felt innocent, like care free. So I 145 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 3: carried this with me into school. And I don't know 146 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 3: if the children could pick up on that that I 147 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 3: was somehow damaged and they knew it. They maybe felt 148 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: that it was a weakness, or maybe it was that 149 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 3: I was different because I was a Jehovah's witness. I 150 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 3: didn't salute the flag. I didn't celebrate major holidays. Maybe 151 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 3: that stingled me out as different somehow, But I was 152 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: bullied horrendously. I think the molestation kind of shook my faith, 153 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 3: and I began to see the world as a place 154 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 3: that was not safe and. 155 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 4: That I had to protect myself. 156 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 3: I think my own my personal relationship with Jehovah and 157 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 3: God was shaken and eliminated. Basically after the molestation, I 158 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: lost my faith. So I continued to grow up, and 159 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: I just I really wanted to be accepted. I saw 160 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: the popular kids, how they had camaraderie, friendship, they were 161 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 3: there to support each other, and I wanted that so bad. 162 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: I wanted to be popular, I wanted to be accepted. 163 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 3: But as I continued to grow up, I came to 164 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: be fourteen years old, and that's when I was diagnosed 165 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:58,479 Speaker 3: with Crohn's disease and sacreliac spondylitis, which is basically arthritis 166 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 3: of the spine, and for those who don't know, Crohn's 167 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 3: disease is basically arthritis of the intestines. Both are autoimmune diseases, 168 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 3: so that's when I started the opiate journey. Looking back, 169 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 3: I wonder if those autoimmune conditions were actually caused by 170 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: the molestation. Maybe that I wasn't able to talk about 171 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 3: what happened, I wasn't able to process what happened. Maybe 172 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 3: that was somehow internalized and my body thought that it 173 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 3: was some kind of an invader and tried to fight it. 174 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 4: Off with the immune system. 175 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 3: I don't know if there's any scientific evidence to back 176 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: that up, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was that. 177 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 3: I started the opiates at age fourteen to treat the pain, 178 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 3: but I soon realized that the medication and not only 179 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 3: helped my physical pain, but it helped my emotional pain. 180 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 3: It helped me feel comfortable. It calmed down the disruptive 181 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 3: thoughts that I have about my past, about resentments toward 182 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 3: the guy who molested me, resentments toward my father, resentment 183 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: to the bullie, the desire for wanting to be popular, 184 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 3: for wanting to be comfortable, for wanting to have companionship. 185 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 3: It kind of calmed all of that down and allowed 186 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 3: me to feel comfortable in my own skin, and I 187 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: could go out into social situations and be relaxed, talk 188 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: to people, be happy. It just progressed over the years. 189 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 3: I would take more of the medication, they would prescribe 190 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 3: a more potent form of the medication. Then I would 191 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 3: increase my dosage on that the opiate use. The dependency 192 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 3: just continue to grow, and I just continue to need 193 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 3: more and more potent medications. The day that I overdosed, 194 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 3: I had been in withdrawals for about three days, and 195 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 3: I was stuck in this pattern of always using too 196 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 3: much of my medication and running out early, and then 197 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 3: I'd go three or four days without my prescription, and 198 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: that's when my body would just start to shut down. 199 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 3: My mind is out of control with anxiety. All the 200 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 3: stuff from the past that I hadn't processed would be 201 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: coming up. All of the feelings of being isolated, different, 202 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: not good enough, not good looking enough, not intelligent enough, 203 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 3: all of that would just start screaming in my mind. 204 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 3: I didn't like my life. My life wasn't what I 205 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: wanted it to be. I had all of these problems, 206 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 3: and I couldn't even sit still in the chair. I 207 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 3: couldn't think straight, and I'm in withdrawals. 208 00:14:59,320 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 4: For three days. 209 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 3: I'm waiting for this guy to show up, and finally 210 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 3: he gets there. 211 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 4: It was like the clock on the wall was just. 212 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 3: Ticking, and each tick was like an hour. Each second 213 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 3: felt like an hour waiting for this guy to show up, 214 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: and finally he gets there. Finally the nightmare is over. 215 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 3: Finally I can relax and I do some of the heroine, 216 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: and all of the the stress just evaporates off my 217 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 3: body like steam rolling off a hot lake. I laid 218 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 3: down on the couch and started feeling like I was sinking, 219 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 3: and it was like my breathing was getting shallow, and. 220 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 4: I just felt like I. 221 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: Was sinking, sinking, And then It was like a moment 222 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 3: of blackness, and then there I am standing next to 223 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 3: my body, like looking at my body on the couch, 224 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 3: and I didn't feel weird. It didn't feel strange or 225 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 3: like wow, like I'm outside of my body looking at. 226 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,119 Speaker 4: My body on the couch. It was I was just there. 227 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 3: And I was looking at my body, and I was 228 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,119 Speaker 3: thinking to myself, what was the point of my life? 229 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 3: Like why did I have all of these experiences? Why 230 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 3: was I sexually molested, bullied, dropped out of school? When 231 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 3: on this educational journey discovered a love of learning, And 232 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: now this I'm standing here dead. What was the point 233 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 3: of the whole thing? Did I know I was dead 234 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 3: at the moment when I was looking at my body? 235 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 3: I think I did, But for some strange reason, it 236 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: didn't weird me out. It wasn't odd. It was just 237 00:16:50,680 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 3: like an everyday kind of event. I had two visions. 238 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 3: One was the life I saw that I could have 239 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 3: lived had I not been dead, all of these joyous experiences, 240 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 3: eating my wife, falling in love, getting married, having children, 241 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 3: achieving financial independence, buying a home, and all of these 242 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 3: people friends that I would have made the impact that 243 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 3: I could have had in people's lives, all of these 244 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 3: people that were there that I could have helped, that 245 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 3: I could have shown kindness to. Then I was shown 246 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: all of the people who were affected. 247 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 4: By my death. 248 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: The funeral where all of my family is, even the 249 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 3: people who are not Jehovah's witnesses, and my mother's there, 250 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 3: and my father is there, and all of my friends, 251 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 3: people that I used drugs with, people that I didn't 252 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 3: use drugs with, my brothers, all of the Jehoah's witnesses 253 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 3: that I had known growing up, and they were all 254 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 3: sharing their. 255 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 4: Thoughts about me. 256 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 3: After I saw like this funeral, I was transported to another. 257 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 4: Vision where I was. 258 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 3: My mother walked into the apartment where I was dead, 259 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 3: and she walks into the apartment, and this is the 260 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 3: part that really stands out to me. She walks into 261 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 3: the apartment and she sees me on the couch and 262 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 3: this puss running out of my mouth, and my skin 263 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 3: is all discolored, like a corpse, just dead, lifeless, and 264 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 3: she sees my body and it's like disbelief and shock, 265 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 3: and she starts saying my baby, my baby, Oh, my god, no, 266 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 3: my god, no, my. 267 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 4: Baby, my baby, and my baby null. 268 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 3: My babe, and it just over and over again. I 269 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 3: could see her thoughts, feel her emotions about finding her 270 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 3: little baby dead on her couch, and she had all 271 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 3: of these memories raising me as a baby, all of 272 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 3: these tender memories of teaching me how to walk, of 273 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 3: feeding me different foods for the first time, and I 274 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 3: can feel her emotions how she's absolutely crushed. And that's 275 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 3: when I'm like, this can't be happening. And I'm like, 276 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 3: I start begging God, like, don't let me die, Like 277 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: send me back. 278 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 4: I can't let this happen. 279 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 3: I will do anything to overcome this addiction, to set 280 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: things right, so I can't let this happen to my mother. 281 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 3: I became aware of a presence in the room, and 282 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 3: I didn't see anyone or anything. I just felt like 283 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 3: something was watching me, like somebody was there in the 284 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 3: room with me. I could feel the thoughts and the 285 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 3: feelings of others as they discussed my life and how 286 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: they felt from my death, all the conversations between my 287 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 3: loved ones. But what stands out particularly is that memory 288 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 3: of my mother binding my body, and I just cried 289 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 3: out to God, please don't let me die. I will 290 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 3: do whatever needs to be done, to set things right, 291 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: to overcome this addiction. Send me back, Send me back, 292 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 3: send me back. And then that's when I heard a voice. 293 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 3: And the voice was plain. It wasn't loud, it wasn't quiet. 294 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 3: It was just like we're talking right now. And it said, 295 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: now your life is over and you wasted it. And 296 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 3: I just cried out, God, no, like, please send me back. 297 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 4: I cannot let this happen. 298 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: And then that's when, all of a sudden, I was 299 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 3: back in my body, gasping for breath. It never identified itself, 300 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: but you might think of it as like a guide. 301 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 5: It was. 302 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 4: It was there, and it was I. 303 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 3: Believe, showing me these things, but kind of like leading 304 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: me through these different visions. It was always there with 305 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 3: me while I was having all of these visions, like 306 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 3: off to the side, even though I couldn't see what 307 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 3: it was. I don't know if you might think maybe 308 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: it was Jesus, maybe it was an angel, maybe. 309 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 4: It was God. 310 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: I can't say with one hundred percent certainty. But whatever 311 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 3: it was, it was powerful, it was divine, and it 312 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 3: was showing me these things. For some reason, I promised 313 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 3: whatever presence that was, whether or not it was God, 314 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 3: an angel, Jesus, whatever it was that was showing. 315 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 4: Me these visions. 316 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 3: It was there during my year that experience that if 317 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 3: you send me back, I will do anything to overcome 318 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: this addiction. And I had to really go within myself 319 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 3: and face the shadow like face the things that were 320 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 3: driving the addiction behind the scenes, the anger, the resentment, 321 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 3: the things that happened to me as a child. And 322 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 3: it wasn't pretty, it wasn't easy, it was painful, it 323 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 3: was anxiety provoking. But I promised that I would do 324 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 3: anything if it gave me another chance. Immediately when I 325 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 3: woke up, I'm thinking, what am I going to do, 326 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:02,719 Speaker 3: Like I just had this unbelievable experience, and I know 327 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 3: that I need to do something or I'm not going 328 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 3: to make it. 329 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 4: And my mom comes. 330 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 3: Home from being out in field service, and then we're 331 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 3: on the phone to crisis and counseling and calling hospitals 332 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 3: trying to get me into some kind of detox program. 333 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 3: So I ended up going to finding a hospital and 334 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: I went to the hospital for seven days, went through 335 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: a dtox from the opiates, and. 336 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 4: It was like I had been on opiates. 337 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 3: For decades, twenty years. 338 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 4: I had been on opiates. 339 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: So it was like I had to learn how to 340 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 3: tie my shoelaces again. My brain just was not working 341 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: and all of the emotional turmoil and everything like that 342 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 3: coming up. I went to an intensive outpatient clinic after 343 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 3: I was done with the hospital, where I were worked 344 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 3: with a counselor and other guys that were in the 345 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 3: corrections system some of them and others were just addicts 346 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 3: that needed help like me, and we're going through that process. 347 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 3: And that's where I was introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous. And 348 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 3: I was introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous and the whole idea 349 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 3: that there's a spiritual solution. I worked the steps to 350 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 3: my best ability. Right, there's twelve steps and they're designed 351 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 3: to give you a spiritual awakening. 352 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 4: That's the whole purpose. 353 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 3: And the creator of Alcoholics Anonymous his name was Bill Wilson, 354 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: and he created Alcoholics Anonymous after having what he calls 355 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 3: a white light experience. So I worked these steps to 356 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 3: the best of my ability. I deal with the molestation 357 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 3: for the first time, like I'm able to confront that 358 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 3: and overcome that, and I did it through this process 359 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: of forgiveness. And I got a really good sponsor who 360 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 3: knew the steps inside and out. 361 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 4: He was like a. 362 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: Hard nosed alcoholic who used the steps to overcome his alcoholism. 363 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: And he helped me come to this place of forgiveness 364 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 3: towards the guy who molested me all that time ago, Right, 365 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 3: And I went back and forgave the beliefs. I was 366 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 3: filled with hate. It was like the hate and the 367 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 3: resentment had become strongly embedded in my identity because I 368 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 3: had lived with the resentment and with the hate for 369 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 3: so long that it was just entrenched. And that was 370 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 3: actually what was fueling the addiction, because I would use 371 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 3: the opiates to try to numb that hate out, to 372 00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 3: numb that resentment down. But I told my sponsor what 373 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 3: happened with the molestation, and he said, that's terrible, Brandon. 374 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 3: A child should never have to go through anything like that. 375 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 3: And I'm so sorry that that happened to you. But Brandon, 376 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 3: it's been how many years since that molestation happened? 377 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 4: Okay? It's been that long? Really okay? 378 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 3: And you've been holding onto this resentment for that long? 379 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 4: I said yeah, And he. 380 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 3: Said, well, did you ever imagine that maybe something had 381 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 3: happened to him as a child that was like this epiphany. 382 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: I had never in that many years of holding onto 383 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 3: this resentment, wondered if something similar had happened to him. 384 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 3: And it gave me some distance to put, like I 385 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 3: was able to kind of separate myself from the event 386 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 3: and look at it like, well, maybe this person the 387 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 3: reason why he felt comfortable molesting me. 388 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 4: And I'm sure that he felt. 389 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: It was wrong because he got me to trust him 390 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 3: and everything first, so he knew that what he was 391 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 3: doing probably wasn't right. But anyways, he had been molested 392 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 3: as a child, probably. 393 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 4: And I wouldn't wish. I wouldn't wish. 394 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 3: That any child have that kind of thing happened to them, right, 395 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:32,959 Speaker 3: so I could feel compassion for him. The forgiveness was 396 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 3: like an awakening, and it was the I was able 397 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 3: to draw the bags that I'd been carrying for twenty years. 398 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 4: The weight. 399 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 3: It was like this huge weight lifted off my shoulders. 400 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 3: It was like I carried that around for so many 401 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: years and just like a sigh of relief just letting 402 00:27:53,520 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 3: it go. There were a lot of different synchronicities that 403 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 3: have happened over the ten years since this happened, Like, 404 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 3: for instance, I met my wife through a dating app 405 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: and we ended up meeting under the full moon, and 406 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 3: it was like all of these synchronicities happened. At the 407 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 3: time where I met this woman, I didn't know that 408 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 3: we were going to get married and have children, but 409 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 3: I met her on a dating app under. 410 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 4: The full moon and we just clicked. 411 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 3: But it was like destiny, like something brought us together 412 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 3: and we were just the right match. It matched the 413 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: premonitions I was shown. And it wasn't like something that 414 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 3: was said to me when I was having the vision. 415 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: It was just like I just knew it, but I 416 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 3: just know that I was shown the woman that I 417 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 3: would marry. I was shown the children that i'd have, 418 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 3: the people that I was going to affect, and it 419 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 3: feels really good. And that was something that I saw 420 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: in my vision. There were all of these roadblocks, like 421 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 3: all of these beliefs about myself, beliefs about money, beliefs 422 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 3: about love that I had to be overcome, you know, 423 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 3: in order to bring that vision that I saw during 424 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 3: that near death experience to fruition. It's like a quantum leap, 425 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 3: like moving from one reality into a completely different reality. 426 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 4: I got married. 427 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 3: I got married to the love of my life. I 428 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 3: recently had a baby, he just turned two, and I've 429 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 3: created a successful online business. Recently, I've been going through 430 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 3: a kind of second spiritual awakening. Whereas the first one 431 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 3: was in that near death experience and going through the 432 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 3: steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and then practicing that right over 433 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 3: the past ten years. Now I'm going through another major 434 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 3: spiritual awakening where I'm of value just being me. I'm 435 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 3: not becoming the person that I want to become. I 436 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 3: am the person I wanted to become, like I'm being 437 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 3: the person that I always wanted to be. And this set, 438 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 3: with this second awakening, it's like no more striving and 439 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 3: no more trying to prove myself. That's what it's been 440 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 3: like with this creating a online business, right is I'm 441 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 3: trying to get more followers, I'm trying to attract more customers, 442 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 3: I'm trying to get more views on live videos. 443 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 4: Like that's all over now. It's about. 444 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: Simplification, letting go of my of my plans, and simplifying 445 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 3: my life. 446 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 4: So I used to see myself as a victim. 447 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 3: For most of my life. Now I don't see myself 448 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 3: as a victim. I wouldn't change anything that's happened because 449 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 3: it's turned me into the person that I am now. 450 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 3: And even those dark experiences and things that I've done 451 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 3: wrong in my past, I've forgiven myself and forgiven all 452 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 3: others who have been, are, or even will be a 453 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: part of my experience. I've had faith following this vision 454 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: right and trying to develop myself and let and heal 455 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 3: from the past, and it's. 456 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 4: Required a great deal of faith. 457 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 3: The feeling of wholeness isn't through these accomplishments. It is 458 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 3: through experiencing the presence of God in this moment, being 459 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 3: content with what I have and enjoying what I have, 460 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 3: and cultivating the sense of inner peace and inner quiet 461 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 3: and simplicity. 462 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 4: And maybe that is faith. 463 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: Welcome back, this is Alive again. Joining me for a 464 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive Against story 465 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: producers Louren Vogelbaum and Brent Die and I'm your host, 466 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: Dan Bush. So talking about Brandon, his story was very 467 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: hard to listen to. Whenever I see somebody who's struggling, 468 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: or somebody who has an addiction issue, or somebody who's 469 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: even suffering homelessness. You know, my new thought now is 470 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: what happened, you know, what was the trauma that led 471 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: to this person being broken to the point where they 472 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:25,479 Speaker 1: are at. 473 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 5: This is where they are. 474 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: This is a story about somebody who went to all 475 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: the way to the edge, harbored this this trauma, and 476 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: then had this near death experience where the pronounced message 477 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: that came to him through that experience was you've wasted 478 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: your life. Sorry, you blew it. It kind of was 479 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: the takeaway from his near death experience. And so he 480 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: came back into his life, not simply. I mean, sure, 481 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: he started to do all the things that you do 482 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: as as a recovering addict and you go to AA 483 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: and you start to do all of the steps, but 484 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: something really interesting happened with him that was beyond the 485 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: sort of normal things that one would do. It can 486 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: become a thing where when you've become recovered, that becomes 487 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: your identity and you're like, okay, I'm a recovered addict 488 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: and that's your identity. And with Brandon, he even went 489 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: beyond that. He's like, you know what, I'm done being 490 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,959 Speaker 1: the recovered guy. Now I've got a new narrative. And 491 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: you know it's not that I am the recovered Brandon, 492 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: It's that he just was. He just is, and he 493 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: somehow came into an acceptance of everything that had happened 494 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: to him, which allowed him this whole new understanding and 495 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: this whole new sort of ability to rebuild and to 496 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: accept a new identity that was beyond all of that 497 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: in a weird way. And I just thought that was 498 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: so hopeful and so cool. But yeah, it's it did 499 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: make me think, like, of all the people that I 500 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: see struggling, and the folks who I see who are 501 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: experiencing homelessness, or the folks my thought these days is, 502 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, have what adversity have they faced? 503 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: Right? 504 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 5: How did society fail this human person particular? 505 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: And much like we heard you know Manuel in one 506 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: of our earlier shows, and how he have found forgiveness 507 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: for his torturers because. 508 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 4: He saw it. 509 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 1: He saw that this the systemic, you know, state sponsored violence, 510 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I lost my dignity, but they, 511 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: the people who did this to me, they lost their humanity. 512 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: And he talked about a river of blood and if 513 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: he could just follow the violence back and back and 514 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: back and follow it in this idea of following the 515 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: trauma back and back and back. So how could we 516 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: not look at this and also go the guy who 517 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: did this to him, the young adolescent or young man 518 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: who abused and sexually abused him when he was a child. 519 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: That led to a whole entire life of dealing with 520 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: that trauma, like what happened to that guy? 521 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 4: You know? 522 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: And I don't know the answer. I have no idea, 523 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: but it makes me wonder, like, you know, zero trauma, 524 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: how do we start to heal these wounds? How do 525 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: we go back and back and back? How can we? 526 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: Because I don't know. I mean, we were all babies 527 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: at one point, you know. 528 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 6: I mean I think that's why forgiveness is such a 529 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 6: core message of so many of our great religions is 530 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 6: you can't you can't go back and back and back. 531 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 6: You know, one wrong doesn't make a right, whether it's 532 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 6: physical violence, sexual violence, whatever, and you've just got to 533 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 6: find a place like he did, like Brandon did, to say, 534 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 6: I don't know what you went through, but I'm not 535 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 6: going to carry this weight with me any longer. 536 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 4: You know it. 537 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 6: It's not necessarily absolving the person and what they did, 538 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 6: but it's freeing yourself of having to carry that hate 539 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 6: for them. 540 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, what do they say, you know, hating somebody 541 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: and carrying that hate. It's like it's like drinking poisons 542 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: and expecting the other person to get sick. Right, it's not. 543 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: You know, at the very least, you can stop the 544 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: stop the cycle within yourself. It doesn't mean you have 545 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: to like help that other person. It doesn't mean that 546 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: that other person who did this to you isn't still 547 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: you know, a monster out there working in the in 548 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 1: the universe. But if you can stop the hate within yourself, 549 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: then you're not going to repeat it. Yeah. 550 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 6: The only thing, the only person you can be responsible 551 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 6: for is yourself. And a lot of this is intergenerational 552 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 6: chain after chain after chain, and if you can break 553 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 6: that link and then one place to do it as yourself. 554 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 555 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's what forgivesness says, it's not about the 556 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: other person at all. 557 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 5: Oh no, yeah, I mean, end of the day, I 558 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 5: screw that other person, but you. But you don't have 559 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 5: to carry you don't have to re traumatize yourself about it. 560 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 5: There are ways to break out of that, right, Yeah. 561 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 6: And I think there's value to go you know, maybe 562 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 6: there is a reason that maybe they suffered the same 563 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 6: trauma I did, sure, you know, I think there might 564 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 6: be value to that, but it doesn't absolve them most 565 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 6: of what they've done. 566 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 5: I do think that part of why this one was 567 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 5: so hard to listen to was that Brandon is clearly 568 00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 5: a person who feels deeply and is incredibly expressive. He's 569 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 5: a very dynamic storyteller, and I think why he is 570 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 5: is because of what he chose to do with these 571 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 5: life experiences and how he healed from them. And I 572 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 5: think it's that's like a really powerful way to make 573 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 5: sense of the shit that we go through as human 574 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 5: people on this planet, figuring out ways to connect with 575 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 5: other people over it, rather than disappearing into it to. 576 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: Become to become a bodhisot fha. Maybe there's a certain 577 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: vantage point on what's happened to you in the adversity, 578 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: that's happened to you which led you to a point 579 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: of being able to help others. Yeah, and not that 580 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: that's why that happened to you, but if it gave 581 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,240 Speaker 1: you purpose and if you if you've found a route 582 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: to this, I mean, you know, I just think that 583 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: first of all, overcoming your own trauma is nothing short 584 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: of heroic, Absolutely it's that in itself as a revolutionary 585 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: act in a way of like finding within yourself the 586 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: capacity to forgive yourself, but then to stay with it 587 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: and to not just be like, Okay, I'm good. No, 588 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: then you turn and you see the suffering in the 589 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: world and you begin to help others. Yeah, and he's 590 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: done that. Brandon has done that and does that. I 591 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 1: think another component of this story, as somebody who has 592 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 1: not experienced this, is to have empathy for those who 593 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,760 Speaker 1: have had experiences that you haven't had, and to hear them. 594 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: When I was in college, I was walking across the 595 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,240 Speaker 1: parking lot and his car pulled up and the window 596 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: was down, and the guy asked me, where's Meyers Hall, 597 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: which is as a dormitory on the University of Georgia campus. 598 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 6: And I leaned in the windows. I couldn't hear him, 599 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 6: and he had his pants down around his ankles and 600 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,879 Speaker 6: was masturbating. And it freaked me out so bad. And 601 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 6: for the next two weeks walking around, I didn't get 602 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 6: a good look at the guy. I just kept looking around, 603 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 6: going is that the guy? Could it be that guy? 604 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 6: The guy didn't touch me, he didn't do anything to me, 605 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 6: but I was so violated by that, and I thought, 606 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 6: I haven't been raped, nobody touched me. I'm twenty three 607 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 6: years old, I'm a grown man. I should be able 608 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 6: to handle this. And I thought, if it did that 609 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 6: much to me just witnessing that, just experiencing that, imagine 610 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 6: what a ten year old boy or a nine year 611 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 6: old girl what it does to them for the rest 612 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 6: of their life. And it just you got to hear 613 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 6: people when they say they went through something, whether it's 614 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 6: racism or sexism or sexual abuse. Listen to people, hear 615 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 6: what they've been through. 616 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, and try to understand why it's so dehumanizing, and especially. 617 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: If they have the bravery to speak about it, right 618 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: then God damn listen. Yeah, right, Like so much of 619 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: the trauma we all just harbor inside of ourselves, and 620 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: we have the self hatred, that self loathing, that sort 621 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: of that we don't even know where it comes from, 622 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: and there is no basis for it other than, you know, 623 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: this dehumanizing experience that we've had. 624 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 6: When I think maybe a certain amount of that too, 625 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 6: is distigmatizing it to the point that somebody who has 626 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 6: those impulses that they want to act on another person 627 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 6: can seek help, because if you're feeling that way, you 628 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 6: should probably get that addressed, you know, before you harm 629 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 6: somebody the way Brandon was harmed or the way Matt 630 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 6: Fortune was harmed in another one of our stories, you know, 631 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 6: and it led him to a life of homelessness and 632 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:22,879 Speaker 6: drug addiction. 633 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: And he had the same sort of backstory as Brandon. Yeah, 634 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: there's gonna be different ways that people compensate for that 635 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: the adversity that they've faced. 636 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,479 Speaker 6: And well, I think we can also stop at looking 637 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 6: at homelessness and drug addiction as moral failings and weaknesses 638 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 6: and go, maybe there's a vet who came back from 639 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 6: a traumatic situation overseas and he's suffering postraumatic stress. Maybe 640 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 6: there was somebody who's sexually abused as a child. Maybe 641 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 6: there's somebody who simply couldn't keep paying the bills. 642 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, can we look at that person who instead of 643 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: seeing somebody who's a failed human, can we look at 644 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: them with love and you know, see the divinity in 645 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: them and see that they are a mirror of ourselves, 646 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: in a mirror of our society, instead of being thinking, oh, 647 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: we're removed from it, and that's that's not my story, 648 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: that's their narrative and there's something wrong with that person. Well, 649 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's something wrong with all of us if 650 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: that's you know, a recurring situation, and it is it 651 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: is apparently you know, everywhere. 652 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 5: And also it speaks to the kind of invisible illnesses 653 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 5: that a lot of people do have where you might 654 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 5: look at someone and go like, oh, they're able bodied, 655 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 5: why why are they on the street, But you don't 656 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 5: know when someone has, for example, arthritis of their spine 657 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 5: and that they've been dealing with that kind of chronic 658 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 5: pain for so long, and that that is that is 659 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 5: a hecker, that that kind of dealing with that kind 660 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 5: of pain day in and day out and just wanting 661 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 5: to find a small amount of relief. So like looking 662 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 5: at someone and going like, oh, why can't they get 663 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 5: off drugs? Man? Like, they're just trying to have a 664 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 5: slightly easier time in this life. And we don't have 665 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 5: a lot of don't We scientifically don't have a lot 666 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 5: of good things that we can do. And also as 667 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 5: a society we're just like, uh, I guess they're worthless. 668 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 5: Leave them there, step over them, don't worry about it. 669 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: I heard something recently somebody said that pain and suffering 670 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: are two different things. Pain is pain is pain, it's pain. 671 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 5: It's paint. 672 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: Suffering is the story we tell ourselves about the pain. Yeah, 673 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, if you can start to break that narrative 674 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,320 Speaker 1: and understand it differently. But Brandon's story is a reminder 675 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 1: that these awakenings they don't just they don't just return 676 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: us to a life. They invite us to have a whole, 677 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,320 Speaker 1: an entirely different life. They invite us to recreate ourselves 678 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: and to change the narrative. And I think that that. 679 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: I think anybody who can do that, it's it's nothing 680 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: short of he roic. Yeah, so, especially especially in this 681 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: culture we live in, where it's not you don't have 682 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: a lot of help. 683 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 6: His story kind of ties in with Aaron Ralston's where 684 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 6: his NDE was a vision of what his life could be, 685 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 6: and true he does it. He moves forward by by 686 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 6: freeing himself from drug addiction and finding a place where 687 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 6: he could forgive his abuser and help others and help others. 688 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: Can you imagine dying? And then once you get to 689 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 1: the other side, somebody's. 690 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 4: Like, man, you really good job. 691 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And considering. 692 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,359 Speaker 6: Considering the way the cars are stacked against him by 693 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 6: his none of his owndoing as well. Well you know 694 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 6: what I mean, Like it's like it's not like he stop, 695 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,879 Speaker 6: but somebody put this poison in his head and then, yeah. 696 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,320 Speaker 1: He suffers the result of that. And it was a 697 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 1: slow It's funny because it was a slippery slope. It 698 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: wasn't like he was like destroyed inside and then ran 699 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: off and you know, just became dysfunctional. It was this slow, 700 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: slippery slope of a million micro decisions that eventually led 701 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: to you know, his everdens. Yeah, anyway, I think I 702 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: think we can all do better by identifying with in 703 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,759 Speaker 1: trying to see the people that are surrounding us who 704 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 1: are suffering. 705 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think this is the first NDE where somebody 706 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 6: got graded on their job performance. But yeah, it does 707 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,360 Speaker 6: break the question what are we here for? And what 708 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 6: should we do with our lives? 709 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 2: Next time I'm Alive Again, our producer Nick Tukoski takes 710 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 2: us on a harrowing journey that began with a violent 711 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 2: tumble down the Colorado mountainside. In the years since, he's 712 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 2: been forced to reckon with a chilling truth, someone close 713 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,320 Speaker 2: to him might not have wanted him to survive. 714 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 7: Bill saw an opportunity that he would never get again. 715 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 7: If he found me and my neck wasn't broken, he 716 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 7: had an opportunity to break it. Nobody gets out of 717 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 7: their childhood completely unscathed. 718 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: You know. 719 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 7: Trauma tends to stay in your body. And I didn't 720 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 7: want to drag another human being into this world just 721 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 7: to mess them up myself. But I just try to 722 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 7: be for her who I needed when I was a kid. 723 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die, 724 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakoski, and Lauren Vogelbah music by Ben Lovett, additional 725 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick 726 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,360 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional 727 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima El Kali and 728 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,720 Speaker 1: Nomes Griffin. Today's episode was edited by Mike w Anderson, 729 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host 730 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: Dan Bush. A special thanks to Brandon Dinsmore for joining 731 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: us and sharing his powerful story of transformation and purpose. 732 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 1: To connect with Brandon and learn more about his mission 733 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,879 Speaker 1: to help people fearlessly manifest their dreams. Visit his website. 734 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 1: You can find him at Facebook dot com. Slash coach Brandon. 735 00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,759 Speaker 1: Alive Again is a production of i Art Radio and 736 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: Gopia Pictures. If you have a transformative near death experience 737 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: to share, we'd love to hear your story. Please email 738 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: us at a Live Again Project at gmail dot com. 739 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,279 Speaker 1: That's a l I v e A g A I 740 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 1: N P R O j E C T at gmail 741 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: dot com.