WEBVTT - EP 29 - Hannah, Pt. 2 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:07.960 It is a pretty surreal experience to read about yourself 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.520 in third person, something that has been written by a 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.120 former lover in which you're murdered. 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.200 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.120 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:39.880 change everything. This is part two of Hannah's story. If 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.120 you haven't heard part one, you should go back and 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:47.000 listen to that first. It was the night before the 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.000 launch of Hannah's third novel. She was crashing at her 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.040 friend Hughes place in New York. Her husband Patrick had 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.279 stayed with him the week before. Hannah and Hugh were 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.600 up late talking and out of the blue, h made 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.000 a string. He said that Hannah should. 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:04.959 Be more suspicious of people in her life. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.600 And I said, is this about Patrick? And he said yes. 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.080 And I said did something happen when Patrick was in 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.600 New York last week without me? And he said yes. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.039 At this point, my heart just dropped and I feel 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.760 like I'm in a vomit. I said, did Patrick have 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:30.640 sex with someone? And Hugh said yes. And I said 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:35.679 did he have sex with Trish? And he said yes. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.080 Her husband Patrick had an affair with Trish, her best 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.600 friend from grad school, the same woman who set them 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:45.600 up in the first place. 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.440 I think if it had been a stranger, it would 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:55.720 have been a really unfortunate cry for help. But when 0:01:55.760 --> 0:02:00.640 he chose the person that I've had like second most 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:06.680 intimate conversations with in my life, that clouded anything that 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:07.840 we might have recovered. 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.919 Out of all the people he could have cheated with, 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:18.399 he chose Trish, Hannah's first true friend, her confidante. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:20.840 But Trisha chose Patrick too. 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:29.799 Her betrayal felt so intentional and possibly like it was 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:31.000 a long time coming. 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.520 She thought back to the early days of their friend group, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.359 like that night when Trish reminded Hannah that Trish and 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.640 Patrick were friends first. But Hannah had never worried about 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.000 Trish and Patrick's dynamic. 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.079 It didn't matter because she was married, and more importantly, 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:52.560 it didn't matter because I knew Patrick worshiped me. 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.760 Now Hannah was questioning everything she knew about the two 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:03.040 most important people in her life. It was devastating, but 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.280 sitting in Hugh's apartment, Hannah was numb. 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.160 I said, I have to make a phone call. I'll 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.680 be right back, and I went up to his roof 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.560 and I called my sister and I said, guess who's 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:17.320 having an affair. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.959 Hannah told her sister everything she knew and then went 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.120 right into planning mode. 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:25.960 She was like, what do you need me to do? 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.120 And I said, I just need you to, you know, 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.960 keep your phone charged and if you could handle like 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.760 telling mom, I'm not taking phone calls right now. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.960 She needed to compartmentalize and be alone. She hung up 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.240 the phone and walked back down to Hugh's apartment. 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.720 He's like, did you did you talk to Patrick? And 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:52.320 I said no, no. I called my sister and he 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.960 was like, what are you going to do next? And 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:56.360 I was like, well, right now, I'm going to go 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.440 to bed because I've got a book launch tomorrow, so 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.120 let's do that. And I could tell that I was 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.400 freaking him out because I wasn't crying. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.040 Tomorrow was a big day. She just needed to get 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.040 through the night. She went to bed, still trying to 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:12.440 wrap her head around the news. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.560 I woke up, just bolt upright awake at five in 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:23.080 the morning, sat in bed, waited till six hughes alarm 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.000 went off. He got up, was like, how are you 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:27.479 And I said, I'm fine. I'm going to make a 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.160 phone call here in a second, He's like, Okay, I'm 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.279 going to take a shower. And the person I called 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:37.400 was Trish. Whatever the reason, she was the person I 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:38.760 felt like I needed to confront. 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.360 It was six o five in the morning and Trish 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:43.960 picked up the phone. 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.719 She said, hey, hey, you're in New York right and 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.040 I said yeah, and she said I'll see you tonight 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.480 at the book launch and I said yep, uh huh. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.640 Almost immediately, Trish could sense that something was wrong. She 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:58.000 asked her what was going on. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.719 And I said, well, I think something's happened to Patrick 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.920 and she said, oh, no, is he okay? And I said, no, 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.320 I don't think he is okay. I think he's had 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:13.080 sex with someone. And she said no, who do you 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:16.200 think it is? And I said, I think he had 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.960 sex with you and she said no, why do you 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.600 think that? And I said, if you're gonna lie, I'm 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.000 not doing this and I hung up the phone. She 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.279 called me back thirty seconds later. 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:34.000 Trish admitted it she and George weren't really together anymore so. 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.240 The week before, when Patrick was in town, the two 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:38.279 of them slept together. 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.000 Trish explained, she said he did this to drive a 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.440 wedge between us, and I said no, no, no, no no. 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.200 And when Hannah didn't buy that, she. 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.960 Said, he told me that you've always been jealous of me. 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:52.920 And I said no, no, no, no no. 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:55.480 Trish was grasping at straws. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.760 I was so clear minded. I just kept my wits 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.400 about help me. And I didn't cry and I didn't yell. 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.320 And I said, thank you for letting me know, by 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.200 the way, you are not to come tonight. If I 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.159 see you, I will lose my shit. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.880 With that, Hannah ended the call. By this time, it 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.720 wasn't even six thirty in the morning. Hugh left for work, 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.599 leaving her alone in the apartment, and it was around 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.200 noon when she got a call from Patrick. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.479 He said, well, I heard you talked to Trish and 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:33.679 I said yes, and he said so and I said, okay, 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.239 I'll do the work. Did you have sex with Trish? 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.400 He said yes, more than once. Yes. Do you think 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.840 you're in love with her? Yes? I said, thank you 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.200 so much for being honest with me. I will see 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.760 a lawyer on Monday. I want the house, I want 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.360 the car, I want the dog. He said, did you 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:57.080 rehearse that? And I said nope, but it's pretty good, 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:57.560 isn't it. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.479 Patrick told her he was getting on the next trained 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.440 to New York to talk things out, but Hannah was 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:04.960 done trying to fix things. 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.600 There is nothing to talk about. You had sex with 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.080 a person who introduced us, the person I consider my 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.320 best friend. I will never have sex with a man 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.320 who has had sex with her. There's literally nothing to discuss. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.400 And he said, well, we'll talk about it when I 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.240 come home. And at this point, still not crying, I 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:26.200 did become somewhat like laughing hysterical. I was like, ho, ho, 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.200 you don't have a home anymore. If you are anywhere 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.040 near me tonight, I will scream. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:43.160 Hannah was surprisingly calm. After all, she still had her 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.680 book launch that night. She needed to stay on autopilot. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.960 She didn't have time to grieve. After she got off 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:52.880 the phone with Patrick, she kept moving. 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.400 I had five hours to kill and I was getting 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.840 a divorce, and I wanted to go shopping, And so 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.560 I went shopping and I bought myself a brand new 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.320 miniskirt and a brand new top. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.080 She tried not to think about Trish and Patrick, but 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.760 as she walked around New York, I. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:17.400 Had a sudden fear about STDs and so I sent 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.760 the two of them a text message and I said, 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:23.600 I need to know if I need to get an 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.200 STD test. And she wrote me back and she said, no, 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:30.800 I told you, it just happened. We didn't realize what 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:32.679 close friends we were. And she started texting me this 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.319 really long text message, and at some point Patrick wrote, 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.000 stop texting Trish. 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.040 Trish wasn't the only one blowing up Hannah's phone. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:48.040 I'm getting phone calls from Patrick's parents saying no, no, no, 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.320 you guys are going to work this out. And I 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.959 was like, no, no, no, Let me buy my miniskirt, 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.120 go back to Hugh's apartment. Change. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.520 And then she went to her book launch. Despite the 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.360 day she had. The event went well. She got up 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.720 on stage and read from her new novel, acting as 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.920 if nothing was wrong. Afterwards, her agent and editor asked 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.160 her to go out and celebrate. They had no idea 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.120 about the affair, so Hannah told them. 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:20.920 And both of them just stared at me for a 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.679 second and they were like, wait, why are you here? 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.040 And I was like, well, I'm here because I had 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.559 a book launch and they're like, oh, but you were 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.680 so funny just now on stage, and I was like yeah, 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.640 and they were like oh. No. 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.520 One knew what to say to her, mostly because on 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:46.120 the outside she seemed fine, good even still, she wanted 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.760 to be around her people that night, so she went 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.400 out with Hugh and a couple of her other friends. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:56.920 We had this great dinner and nobody is talking about it. 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.400 And then finally, at like midnight, I mean, the restaurant's 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.200 still open. We've had a couple bottles of wine. Hugh 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:13.320 said something, and I just started bawling. And then Hugh said, Okay, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:15.600 there it is. There we go. 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:21.400 All of the emotions, the sadness, hurt, anger, confusion hit it. 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:26.400 Once the floodgates were finally open. She was still crying 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:27.880 at three am. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:33.240 When Patrick called me again, and he was crying. He 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.240 had gotten on a train and he had come to 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.800 New York City and he was calling me from Trisha's apartment. 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.959 Hannah had just found out that her husband had been 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.880 having an affair with her best friend in a twenty 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.120 four hour period. She confronted both of them, asked for 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:13.280 a divorce, and launched a novel. It had been one 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.959 of the longest days of Hannah's life. And then at 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.360 three am, the phone rang it was her husband Patrick. 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:24.760 He was with Trish and they'd been drinking, and I 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.920 could not believe that he was calling me from her apartment. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.600 He wanted to talk to me about how dramatic I'd 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.520 been and how we would talk about this. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.839 He told Hannah that their marriage could survive this. All 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.960 the while Trish, the woman he said he loved just 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.920 hours before, was in the next room. It was clear 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.439 to Hannah that no matter what promises Patrick made, he. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.600 Was going to continue seeing her. 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.199 Hannah told Patrick to give her space, so Patrick's stay 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.120 to New York to figure things out, and he stayed 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:08.160 with Trish. Meanwhile, Hannah had to keep going. She needed 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.440 to keep promoting her book. The next morning, she left 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:15.760 for DC for another book reading, but now she was 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.520 having trouble holding it all together. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.480 On the train ride down, I couldn't stop crying. I 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.400 was so disgusting. I had to get clothes out of 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.280 my luggage. So I pull out this shirt and I'm 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.680 wiping my face with it, and I feel like I 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.720 look like I'm contagious. And the train is packed, and 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.000 there's this lovely man and he's got this gorgeous suit on, 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:42.680 like beautifully put together perfect specimen of New York City 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.000 sitting next to me, and I am trying so hard 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.520 to make myself small, and I just keep leaning closer 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.360 and closer to the window because I am so disgusting. 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.400 The whole ride down, Patrick continued to text and call 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:02.280 her she was falling apart. Those around her couldn't help. 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.400 But notice in Philly, this man stands up, who I 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.680 have just assumed I am like a leoper to this guy. 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.400 And he gets his bag and I think, finally I 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.600 can spread out and be gross and not worry about 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.520 touching anyone. And he puts his hand on my shoulder 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.080 and I really thought he was gonna yell at me 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.319 or say like, do you know how disgusting you are? 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:29.520 And I looked up at him and he said, I said, 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:33.480 whatever it is, it's gonna be okay. And if it's not, 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:35.880 there are probably people who love you. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:41.240 And I just like lost it all over again because 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.400 he was so nice, he was so generous, and when 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:49.079 he said that, I just thought, I love people. People 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.320 are just the most amazing things in the world. He 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:53.280 was such a gift. 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.480 It was a moment of kindness when she needed it 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:03.679 the most. After DC Hannah finally went back home to Kentucky, 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.360 and as promised, she saw a divorce attorney right away. 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:09.520 Patrick was in denial. 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:16.520 He kept insisting that the marriage wasn't over, and I 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.840 just kept moving forward as much as I could. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:24.760 But eventually Patrick had to come back to Kentucky because he. 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.360 Still had a job at the same school where I 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:27.960 was working. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.120 It was difficult to fully disentangle their lives. For ten years, 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.400 they'd built their worlds around each other. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.560 Until we weren't. We'd always been sort of connected at 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.480 the hip. You know, all of our colleagues would say, 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.720 you guys do everything together. You're always together. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.440 Even though she was putting one foot in front of 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.360 the other, she was taking the divorce really hard. 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:50.440 Patrick had been her person. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.080 She missed him, and she didn't have the luxury of 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.600 space from him. She still ran into him on campus. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.480 So a few months after the divorce was finalized, they 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:02.720 started grabbing coffee. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:08.360 We were able to maintain some amount of a friendship 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:09.200 for a little while. 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.560 It felt a little like those early days when the 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.760 two of them were just friends, playing scrabble and coffee shops. 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:17.480 They would talk about how. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.520 Things were going in their careers. As months went by, 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.560 they even began talking about their new relationships. Hannah started 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:29.320 dating another professor at their university, and Patrick remained with Trish. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.200 One time, he invited Hannah to grab drinks with him 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:36.360 and Trish. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.840 And of course I was thinking, this is great. I'm 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:40.520 just going to show them that I do not care. 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.400 So I got drinks with them, and when it was over, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.680 they went to another bar and I offered them a ride, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.200 dropped them off, and I went home. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.640 Looking back, she's still confused as to why she said yes, 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.600 because practically no time had passed between their divorce and 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:04.400 their friend and soon boundaries began to blur. Patrick started 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.360 making a lot of requests of Hannah. Once, in the 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.680 middle of the night, he called her on a drive. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.800 He was on his way to see Trish. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.480 He was crying and I asked him if he was 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.400 safe to drive and if he needed to pull over, 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.360 and he said, I just need you to promise me 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.360 that we're always going to be friends, because if it's 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.440 we can't be friends, if I stay with her, I'll 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.440 break up with her. I need you in my life. 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.360 And I said, don't break up with her. We'll always 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.160 be friends. And I knew that I was lying. I 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.120 told him what I thought he needed to hear in 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:39.080 order to be safe. 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.160 It was an unhealthy friendship, but it did have one rule. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.040 Hannah made Patrick promise that if things ever got serious 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.120 with him and Trish, he would tell her. 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:55.800 I never wanted to hear about something secondhand, and he 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:57.920 said that he would never let that happen. 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:03.440 He promised. Then the following Christmas. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:07.159 My sister pulled me aside and said, I have to 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:15.720 tell you something, Trisian. Patrick got married, and I wanted 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.240 to be the one to tell you, because it was 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:22.920 pretty clear that he wasn't going to tell you. When 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:28.080 classes resumed that spring, he sent me an email and said, coffee, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.840 you know, like we had been doing. And I said sure, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.480 And I assumed that at this coffee he would tell 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.840 me that they'd gotten married. And I met him for 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.240 coffee and we talked for an hour and he was 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.840 wearing the ring, but he never said a word. He 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:52.880 never told me. I left thinking, whatever we just did, whatever, 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:58.359 Like weird anti flirtation that we're doing with him wearing 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.520 a ring and us laughing in a coffee shop while 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.119 he's not telling me. The most hurtful thing. I just 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:07.880 didn't need it. 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:12.800 It felt manipulative, cowardly, and it was hurting her. She 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:17.840 was finally ready to cut him off. Throughout their whole separation, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.639 Hannah seemed to be doing really well. 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.160 Everyone would say, Oh, you're so much lighter now, you're 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.800 letting yourself have fun again. Everyone said that I was 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:32.240 just so much better, and I told them they were right, 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.240 that I was just so happy and it was such 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:34.760 a relief. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:40.600 She would smile and agree, but in reality, that couldn't 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:41.760 be further from the truth. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:49.600 This was when my eating disorder came back. I'd been 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.760 with Patrick for ten years, and I'd forgotten how to 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:58.560 eat by myself, how to do a meal alone, So 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.080 it was really easy to you go into starvation mode. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.280 Hannah's writing also took a hit. She was under contract 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.000 to write a fourth novel. It was the first time 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.800 in her career where she couldn't meet her deadlines. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:17.000 When I was writing this fourth book, I was very 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:22.400 aware of Hannah sitting at desk in front of computer, 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.600 making character move from point A to point B in 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.760 order to get to the next plot. Ce that made 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:32.400 me feel terrible. 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.960 Her doctor was the first person to notice that Hannah 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:37.840 wasn't doing as well as she said. 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.440 She said, are you getting any sleep? And I was like, yeah, 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.960 when I take you know, trazy doone and clonipin and 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.280 a couple glasses of wine. And she said, that's not sleeping, 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:47.680 that's passing out. 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.920 She recommended that hannah' see a therapist, and Hannah knew 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.040 she was right. So for the next year, Hannah threw 0:19:56.080 --> 0:20:00.640 herself into therapy and had some major breakthroughs. She'd been 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.439 so isolated as a child that she never learned how 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.440 to build healthy relationships. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.280 And I'm like, well, what do I do if I 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.919 don't like this girl that I'm friends with? My therapist 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.800 was like, so you don't like the girl, don't see her? 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:15.920 And I'm like, well, what do I do if I'm 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.520 dating a guy and I just want to break up 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.919 with him and I don't have a reason. She's like, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.760 you break up with him? And I was like, oh, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.520 I think because of my parents' divorce and because of 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:32.080 the trauma of that custody battle, I'd missed out on 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.440 just some certain everyday basics. 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.359 It had been three years since the divorce and she 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.040 was still with that professor at her university. This relationship 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.679 also helped her heal. He had a young daughter and 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.440 together they formed a little family. 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.480 And in twenty nineteen and November we bought a house together, 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.080 having never lived together before, so we did it all 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:58.639 at once. His daughter moves in, he moves in, I 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.040 move in, and then like three months later, COVID hit. 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.679 During COVID, Hannah had more time than ever to focus 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.159 on her writing and to reflect on her divorce. But 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.320 she wasn't writing her usual fiction. 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:13.280 New ideas just. 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:19.159 Weren't coming to her. Instead, she kept revisiting real conversations. 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:23.439 The conversations between Trish and Patrick and George and me, 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.880 and the conversations with my family and grad school. There 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.159 was something about that isolation and being sequestered in this 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:36.359 house that brought it all back. It was during that 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:42.760 time where I thought, Okay, I'm not over it, because 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.400 I'm still thinking about it. Let's just get it out 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:45.600 of me. 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.919 So she started writing it all down, every conversation she 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.440 couldn't get out of her head, memories of Trish from 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.720 early days of their friendship, things she'd wish she'd said 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.080 to Patrick, or that Patrick had said to her, scenes 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.840 from the life they'd built and knocked down together. 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:08.720 And then it accidentally became something that I thought could 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.040 be shared with the world, and then that turned into 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:12.600 my memoir. 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.280 She named the book We Are Too Many a memoir 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.640 kind of She wanted it to be an honest attempt 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.680 at capturing a marriage gone wrong. If she was going 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.960 to write about her divorce and all the real people involved, 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:28.560 she wanted to get it right. 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.680 I was such a part of it that fictional words 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:37.760 did not exist for what I had gone through, and 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.679 I just thought the stakes are so low in fiction. 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:43.720 But then when I made it us, I. 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:47.960 Cared, even in sections that were entirely made up, like 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:52.680 imagined conversations between Patrick and Trish. She tried to paint 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:54.359 these people as they really were. 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:59.200 He can be dismissive, he can be condescending, but when 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.800 he is charming, and when he shines that charm on you, 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:09.240 it's quite lovely. I wanted to capture that complicated character. 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:12.680 There's no hero in the story. 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.920 Every character shares Blaine herself included. 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:23.000 In early drafts. I almost always got what I wanted 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:27.040 to say correct, and I almost always gave myself the 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:32.120 upper hand and the punchline and I realized I had 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:37.240 to go through and get rid of all the bullshit. 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.880 I think I did a pretty good job being honest 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:46.800 about how demanding I can be. I was unpleasant, especially 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:48.200 towards the end when I was mad. 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.240 She also made it clear that she was only writing 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:55.240 from her perspective. These were, as she writes in her introduction, 0:23:56.040 --> 0:24:01.040 imperfectly recollected exchanges. She was only telling her version of 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:01.560 the truth. 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:07.119 I was never attempting to pretend that I had a 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:09.919