Speaker 1: Who baby, my baby, I need you, Oh how I
Speaker 1: need you? What to expect? As a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, I'm your host Heidi Murkoff, and I'm a
Speaker 1: mom on a mission, a mission to help you know
Speaker 1: what to expect every step of the way. Let's face it,
Speaker 1: you've got baby on the brain, and whether that baby
Speaker 1: is still in your belly already snuggled up in your arms,
Speaker 1: you are one hundred percent obsessed and preoccupied. And that
Speaker 1: makes sense. And both you and your partner are officially
Speaker 1: or soon to be parents as little as they are.
Speaker 1: Having a baby is a really big deal. But somewhere
Speaker 1: in the back of your baby overloaded mind, you may
Speaker 1: be wondering what happens to the two of us when
Speaker 1: baby makes three. Will you still be a couple or
Speaker 1: will you just become a couple of parents? Will you
Speaker 1: live to love each other again in the same way.
Speaker 1: The answer is yes, yes, one thousand times yes. But
Speaker 1: like nurturing a baby, nurturing a relationship takes time, commitment,
Speaker 1: and a lot of hard work. Happily, we're about to
Speaker 1: make it seem a little bit easier. Today M and
Speaker 1: I are talking relationships with Dr Tracy Dalglish Tracy as
Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist and couple therapists who specializes in helping
Speaker 1: couples postpartum with everything from maintaining intimacy to preventing resentment,
Speaker 1: to learning to communicate and work as a team to
Speaker 1: parent your new little bundle of joy. She's also a
Speaker 1: mom of two and a partner in parenting as both
Speaker 1: Emma and I are. So and well, let's start with you.
Speaker 1: What was the hardest adjustment for you and Simon when
Speaker 1: you brought Stevy home. You already have Lenox. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I feel like, in a sense that I was kind
Speaker 1: of lucky without because I was a single m and
Speaker 1: so Simon and I got knocked up after like four
Speaker 1: months of dating, so we really didn't have that honeymoon
Speaker 1: phase that a lot of couples have, and I'm always
Speaker 1: kind of envious to the couples who get that time,
Speaker 1: which we never got. Although I'm grateful for the fact
Speaker 1: that I had Lennox, so even when we started dating,
Speaker 1: you know, there was time issues and scheduling and so
Speaker 1: we were kind of prepared in that sense. But I
Speaker 1: really feel now, especially because it's been so rough for
Speaker 1: this past year, that we really could have used that
Speaker 1: alone time. For me, the hardest thing is making time
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, I am so tired,
Speaker 1: and for us at least, like the relationship is always
Speaker 1: kind of put on the back burner. We need to
Speaker 1: build on reconnecting at the end of the day instead
Speaker 1: of disconnecting because we're there's a lot of disconnection happening.
Speaker 1: I mean, my husband works fourteen hours a day, so
Speaker 1: he's exhausted. He gets into bed, he's out like a light.
Speaker 1: And when he's not working, he's with the kids. And
Speaker 1: that makes me so happy because personally, I would rather
Speaker 1: have them have that time. Although it's kind of affecting
Speaker 1: a relationship, and when it comes to a relationship that
Speaker 1: kind of falls into the third party, like it's the
Speaker 1: it's it's work kids relationship, and I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of people feel that way, and I want to
Speaker 1: learn how to prioritize but also still have my kids
Speaker 1: have their dad. Fortunately, for you and for all the
Speaker 1: moms out there and dads, we have a professional in
Speaker 1: the house, and I am so glad we do. Tracy,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for inviting me. I am so glad to
Speaker 1: be sitting with both of you, Heidi and Emma. At
Speaker 1: what point did you realize that you wanted to focus
Speaker 1: on helping new parents with their relationships. You know, it's
Speaker 1: interesting when I think about this question that we often
Speaker 1: can say what leads us to certain areas of work
Speaker 1: is often our own experience as a psychologist and couples therapists.
Speaker 1: I was working within maternal mental health in in practice
Speaker 1: already and helping women in the postpartum period, helping couples
Speaker 1: after they had had children, But it wasn't truly until
Speaker 1: I had my own child, my first one, that I
Speaker 1: was just side tracked with, you know, just the disparity
Speaker 1: of information that is being provided to women and couples
Speaker 1: before having a baby. And I mean, I think so
Speaker 1: many of us can relate to this one where you
Speaker 1: go to your six week check up and they say,
Speaker 1: all right, you're good, You're all clear, and I'm thinking
Speaker 1: all clear for what I'm backing most of the time,
Speaker 1: I'm sweating at night, I'm up in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night, ready for what. And my partner and I,
Speaker 1: I mean, we were both navigating the role changes are
Speaker 1: changes and identities and then also all the changes in
Speaker 1: our relationships. And while I knew all of the communication
Speaker 1: tools and strategies, no one could have prepared me for
Speaker 1: the mental load that came on after having our first child. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you didn't exactly know what to expect. No, I
Speaker 1: feel like unrealistic expectations can be at the root of
Speaker 1: relationships struggles that are ahead. They can almost forecast it,
Speaker 1: because babies bring big changes, and there's changes in every
Speaker 1: aspect of your life. They change your lifestyle, your schedule,
Speaker 1: you're all of your relationships absolutely, and you know, we
Speaker 1: think of all the things that we prepare for, We
Speaker 1: prepare for the nursery, we prepare for labor, we do
Speaker 1: the readings, and we rarely prepare our relationships. That's right.
Speaker 1: So what are some of the most common issues that
Speaker 1: you see in couples dealing with that change in relationship
Speaker 1: when they bring a new baby home. What don't they expect? Yes, oh, yes, Well,
Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to mind is navigating all
Speaker 1: of the emotions that show up. So for many moms
Speaker 1: they talk about well and both parents, the depression, the anxiety,
Speaker 1: the blues, the baby blues that show up, you know,
Speaker 1: the random tearfulness, and then also the rage that shows
Speaker 1: up during that time for women as well. It's not
Speaker 1: something that we are prepared for we talk about, and
Speaker 1: the challenge with this is that we also don't always
Speaker 1: know how to share our feelings or even ask for
Speaker 1: our needs. So that is one of the top things
Speaker 1: that I see show up. But on top of that,
Speaker 1: which is the big piece I've already alluded to, is
Speaker 1: navigating the roles and the demands that show up. You know,
Speaker 1: if you are breastfeeding, have you talked about who's waking
Speaker 1: up with baby to do the diaper change first before feeding?
Speaker 1: Are you sharing the night feedings? You know, that's something
Speaker 1: that we don't tend to talk about. And ultimately all
Speaker 1: of this goes into our intimacy, right we do not
Speaker 1: prepare the conversations around how will we maintain our physical closeness,
Speaker 1: what will we do to remain close? And all of
Speaker 1: this goes into the side. We just keep going because
Speaker 1: we're in survival mode learning how to you know, rock
Speaker 1: this baby and feed the baby. And then resentment starts
Speaker 1: to build up, and many moms are so surprised to
Speaker 1: experience the level of resentment towards a partner. My theory
Speaker 1: is two old. One is the obvious. That's society talking. Still,
Speaker 1: even though society is way behind the wheel, right, we
Speaker 1: expect moms to be nurtures. We don't expect that necessarily
Speaker 1: of dad's. And the problem I feel is number two,
Speaker 1: that the dads aren't given the chance, that women have
Speaker 1: a way of taking over, and then they sort of
Speaker 1: step away from the changing table, they step away from everything,
Speaker 1: they step away from the relationship because it's all baby
Speaker 1: and mommy. Absolutely, yes, absolutely, those are two key pieces.
Speaker 1: So what society tells us I hear from a lot
Speaker 1: of mothers this internal guilt. I should be able to
Speaker 1: do it all. I shouldn't burden my partner. They shouldn't
Speaker 1: have to wake up in the middle of the night
Speaker 1: with me, you know somehow, and you know, for a
Speaker 1: good reason. We're nurturing and caring. But this is about
Speaker 1: being that collaborative and co creating this family together. Huge piece.
Speaker 1: But then the other piece that I love what you've
Speaker 1: said they're harty is that dad's aren't given the chance.
Speaker 1: And this is where maternal gatekeeping really comes into play. Oh,
Speaker 1: I love that phrase. Yes, and it starts really early
Speaker 1: on that you know, naturally, we start to maybe feel
Speaker 1: uncomfortable feelings as we're seeing dad trying to navigate crying baby,
Speaker 1: so we think, Okay, well baby's uncomfortable, I'm uncomfortable. Let
Speaker 1: me jump in, rather than mom just taking that step
Speaker 1: back and saying, Okay, my partner needs to learn to
Speaker 1: do this as well, So I'm going to let them
Speaker 1: do that, and maybe I will take this opportunity to
Speaker 1: go have a shower or do something for myself. Trees,
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you feel that the pandemic it's changed
Speaker 1: so much about our lives, But how do you think
Speaker 1: it's changed relationships for the better and for the worst. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for for the for the better in some ways, So
Speaker 1: when I'm thinking of when baby comes home, of all
Speaker 1: of the new parents during this time, in some ways,
Speaker 1: what has been really good about this opportunity is that
Speaker 1: if your partner is working from home, that has been
Speaker 1: a beautiful space that I've been able to tap into
Speaker 1: with a lot of my clients as well. So if rage, anxiety,
Speaker 1: or depression are showing up, can you just gently knock
Speaker 1: on your partner's door and they can hold baby for
Speaker 1: ten minutes while you go and do something for yourself.
Speaker 1: That has been a huge benefit. Now downfall, unfortunately, though,
Speaker 1: is that we know that to really feel good during
Speaker 1: the postpartum period, especially in the first six months, we
Speaker 1: need to have a strong social support network, and families
Speaker 1: are just having this taken away from them right now
Speaker 1: that you know you can't lean on you know, maybe
Speaker 1: your mom coming to live with you for two weeks,
Speaker 1: or friends dropping by and holding babies so you can
Speaker 1: take the shower or make the meal for yourself. We're
Speaker 1: just really having to go through this time on our own,
Speaker 1: and as a result, parents are getting exhausted and they
Speaker 1: are burnt out without being able to lean on anyone
Speaker 1: for more support. Now that's true. And Emma, how about you.
Speaker 1: I think part of the problem for you is that
Speaker 1: you're both working at home, but Simon's one who's working
Speaker 1: fourteen hours a day. Yeah, so you know, communication is
Speaker 1: really important and I'm not the greatest communicator. I think
Speaker 1: I'm communicating, but I'm thinking it and I expect him
Speaker 1: to read my mind at all times, and then I explode.
Speaker 1: So there needs to be away where I can communicate
Speaker 1: in a healthy way. I'll get like so mad at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. Because he's upstairs working and
Speaker 1: I'm taking care of the kids. I'm doing school pickups,
Speaker 1: I'm doing school with Lenox, I'm cleaning, I'm making dinner.
Speaker 1: And then I start like throwing dishes in the sink,
Speaker 1: you know, and I slammed doors and I slammed And
Speaker 1: that's not good for my kids either, to see me
Speaker 1: like that. So I think communication is so incredibly important,
Speaker 1: and that's something that I obviously need to work on.
Speaker 1: And can I normalize that that nobody really teaches us
Speaker 1: the communication piece. We don't learn what to do with
Speaker 1: our feelings and how to express them and get them out.
Speaker 1: And you know, I posted something recently about when you
Speaker 1: say I feel like you never help out, it's actually
Speaker 1: not a feeling word. But many people, for they were saying, oh,
Speaker 1: that's a light bulb moment, right, okay, versus the saying
Speaker 1: I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling frustrated, I need help. We
Speaker 1: just don't learn how to do that. I appreciate that,
Speaker 1: that's that's very true. How does Emma and how do
Speaker 1: other couples work on communicating before the baby even arrives
Speaker 1: on the scene, Yes, before the baby even arrives. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we need to make sure looking at how we
Speaker 1: are communicating, are we getting into negative communication patterns? So
Speaker 1: those are the patterns of blame and criticism, defensiveness, Are
Speaker 1: we um contemptuous towards our partner? Or are we stonewalling?
Speaker 1: Those communication patterns lead to us into negative interaction cycles.
Speaker 1: And that looks like as I'm pursuing you, as I'm
Speaker 1: approaching you for attention and affection, one partner might step back,
Speaker 1: and as that partner step back, you start to knock
Speaker 1: on the door louder, Hello, I need help, where are you?
Speaker 1: And the louder you get, the other person withdraws more.
Speaker 1: And so couples get into these patterns that are often
Speaker 1: there even before baby comes, but we haven't learned to
Speaker 1: necessarily get out of them beforehand. So that would be
Speaker 1: the first thing that we really need to work on beforehand. So, am,
Speaker 1: how does that sound to you? That sounds that sounds doable?
Speaker 1: And yeah, that does sound too. I feel like I
Speaker 1: feel like empowered, Like it's a new day, it's a
Speaker 1: new dawn, it's a new day. I have an example
Speaker 1: for this, you know, I'm I'm sure you can relate
Speaker 1: to this party. I know you can relate to this
Speaker 1: as well. As it's kind of like a month in advance.
Speaker 1: You get the party invite and you're like, yeah, the party.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to go to the party. Right the
Speaker 1: day of the party, you think, oh gosh, why did
Speaker 1: I say yes, I don't want to go, and so
Speaker 1: you said, all right, I'm gonna go. Anyways, So you
Speaker 1: go to the party, and then afterwards you say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad I went to the Party's not so
Speaker 1: true into missing in our relationships is exactly that. So
Speaker 1: even though you know, I had one couple that described
Speaker 1: this perfectly. The male partner would go and give her
Speaker 1: a hug and she's like, I don't want to hug.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hug, and he would say, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna hold you. I'm gonna keep squeezing you, and
Speaker 1: after a few seconds she would let herself release into
Speaker 1: it exactly, And it's very much like a toddler, like
Speaker 1: when they're having a tantrum. Sometimes giving them a big
Speaker 1: giant hug, even if you're mad at them and they're
Speaker 1: mad at you, it communicates in a way that words can't,
Speaker 1: and it melts down that resentment or that anger, and
Speaker 1: in moment you feel close and connected. But there's also
Speaker 1: the issue of time. Like big time, it's hard to
Speaker 1: find time. Jersey, what's some advice you have for couples
Speaker 1: who feel like they don't have the time. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: do you're talking about? The number one thing I say
Speaker 1: to couples, which is getting intentional to schedule it. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be rigid, but it's an agreement that
Speaker 1: you know, every Sunday night we have a thirty minute
Speaker 1: connection time where we have no distractions. It's the getting
Speaker 1: out of the all or nothing. Right. We can't take
Speaker 1: the weekend away just the two of us, the adventure,
Speaker 1: the week long adventure, so we're not going to do
Speaker 1: anything it. No, it's more about those small, manageable pieces
Speaker 1: that you can do every single day, and I think
Speaker 1: those do have more meaning even than the weekend away,
Speaker 1: which comes with so many expectations like vacation. You have
Speaker 1: to have sex so many times a day and have
Speaker 1: all this intimacy. But in fact, if you who actually
Speaker 1: make time for it at home and it's just twenty minutes,
Speaker 1: that can mean more, at least cumulatively. Now, of course
Speaker 1: this says bring us to intimacy. And it's funny how
Speaker 1: people use it as a euphemism for sex, But I
Speaker 1: think of sex as sex and intimacy as something that
Speaker 1: is all the time. One of the things I think
Speaker 1: is so important around this is, first, let's let's redefine sex.
Speaker 1: And how do I agree with what you're saying around
Speaker 1: that is that it is not just this sex as
Speaker 1: an intercourse. It is more about this intimacy of let's
Speaker 1: think of all the ways we can be intimate, physical intimacy,
Speaker 1: sexual intimacy, which is intercourse or outer course. Right, there's
Speaker 1: pleasure on the outside of our bodies as well, emotional
Speaker 1: intimacy sharing our thoughts and feelings, intellectual intimacy, which is
Speaker 1: let's listen to a podcast or read a book together
Speaker 1: and share our ideas over that. Or my favorite and
Speaker 1: my go to is the experiential intimacy. We painted our
Speaker 1: main floor during COVID and we felt so close doing
Speaker 1: this project together. Right, that's so cute. I love that
Speaker 1: in the postpartum period, in that first year, it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be sex, but instead let's find the other
Speaker 1: ways that we can bridge that connection. Absolutely, I agree.
Speaker 1: I think that for me though, when you don't have
Speaker 1: sex as often as you used to, it's a little
Speaker 1: bit like stressful. What's interesting, though, is that for me
Speaker 1: during that newborn stage, the baby stage, that was the
Speaker 1: easy stage. And now that I have a toddler, of
Speaker 1: my vaginas shut. It's closed up because I'm tired. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: And what we're talking about there is responsive desire versus
Speaker 1: spontaneous desire. And it is incredibly hard to have spontaneous
Speaker 1: desire when you are carrying a backpack of bricks on
Speaker 1: and inside of that backpack is the number of diapers
Speaker 1: you've changed, the running around toddler, and the tantrums and
Speaker 1: the melting down, and then the laundry and all of
Speaker 1: that on top of it. And then you go to
Speaker 1: the bedroom at the end of the day you have
Speaker 1: no energy left, and you think, somehow I'm going to
Speaker 1: be lubricated and excited and and you can with a
Speaker 1: backpack of bricks and you look over and there is
Speaker 1: the laundry basket full of clothes that you didn't get
Speaker 1: to do. So spontaneous desire does tend to fade as
Speaker 1: we move through this stage. But what's important is we
Speaker 1: remember the responsive desire which is if you get into
Speaker 1: bed and you lie your bodies next to each other
Speaker 1: and you start to touch each other in ways that
Speaker 1: feel good, then assault your body is going to respond.
Speaker 1: And I think that's also important that we remember that
Speaker 1: as women, that is something that we are more likely
Speaker 1: to experience compared to compared to men in heterosexual relationship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true, you know, but I think that dad's also
Speaker 1: experience postpartum, you know, baby blues. They they have changes
Speaker 1: in their hormones that you know, lower test saucetone. They're
Speaker 1: feelings sleep deprived, not to the extent maybe that we are,
Speaker 1: but it does changing too. Yeah, their lobito might not
Speaker 1: be what it was. But what do we do as women?
Speaker 1: We assume that it's us, like we're not sexy anymore, right, right.
Speaker 1: I think that people need to be more willing to
Speaker 1: have dialogues around this, and that that dialogue is not
Speaker 1: something that's personal. And that is one of the hardest
Speaker 1: things that I see for couples when I come into
Speaker 1: my office is they just do not know how to
Speaker 1: talk about sex as something that we can create together,
Speaker 1: but that it's not personal, and that we can make
Speaker 1: space for both people to have an experience, and if
Speaker 1: one partner wants it five times a week and the
Speaker 1: other one is okay with one once a month, maybe
Speaker 1: even we've got to find that middle space together and
Speaker 1: how we're going to work through it because we need
Speaker 1: to consider both people. You know, it's really interesting that
Speaker 1: oftentimes when a mom does say to her partner in session,
Speaker 1: I don't want you to come near me. I don't
Speaker 1: want to give you hugs because I'm worried that if
Speaker 1: I let you hug me, you're going to want sex.
Speaker 1: And so then we get this assumption or this perception
Speaker 1: that any touch from my partner is going to leave
Speaker 1: to them wanting sex. And the male partner will often say,
Speaker 1: I just want to be close to you, I just
Speaker 1: want to hold you. That it is not always me
Speaker 1: coming in for sex. It is let's build closeness. And
Speaker 1: it puts a lot of pressure on him as well,
Speaker 1: right if he thinks that, you know, he brings sex
Speaker 1: to the table, you know, and it has to be sex. So, Ama,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about going to give Simon a hug?
Speaker 1: I'm such a I don't know, like I think that
Speaker 1: you and I are very different because I think that
Speaker 1: sometimes like when I'm mad, like I want to stay mad,
Speaker 1: and I want to have that reason to be mad
Speaker 1: and to like hold a grudge and to have him
Speaker 1: like gravel, and that's such a horrible quality. But I
Speaker 1: feel like, so if I give in and I give
Speaker 1: that hug, it's like I'm letting that go, and maybe
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to let it go. What if you
Speaker 1: could have both, Emma, What if you could still have
Speaker 1: your mad feelings and you can still have your partner.
Speaker 1: I think I think that would be great. I think, honestly,
Speaker 1: it would probably make me a much happier, less dressed out,
Speaker 1: angry person if I would release some of the anger
Speaker 1: and let go of things easier. I think what you're
Speaker 1: speaking to, Emma is the sense that what we really
Speaker 1: need to feel is being seen from our partners. We
Speaker 1: really want to know that they see what we're feeling.
Speaker 1: And sometimes our partners come in and say, Okay, you're struggling,
Speaker 1: how can I fix it? How can I problem solve,
Speaker 1: Let me do this, I'll do that, and they really
Speaker 1: miss what it is that we're feeling. And exactly when
Speaker 1: they miss it, then we start to dig in even further.
Speaker 1: Rather than being able to communicate them. Can you see
Speaker 1: just the feeling that I'm having right now? I just
Speaker 1: need you to see that I'm angry about this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think men and women generally are wired differently.
Speaker 1: And my husband obviously does not think the same way
Speaker 1: I do, just like he doesn't understand necessarily like why
Speaker 1: I feel a certain way. Sometimes I'm like understood, don't
Speaker 1: understand why he feels a certain way. Yeah, And I'm
Speaker 1: curious to hear what you have to say about that, Tracy.
Speaker 1: If we go to the search. So the research by
Speaker 1: John Gottmann's group, they have studied over a three thousand couples.
Speaker 1: They've hooked men and women, heterosexual couples up to all
Speaker 1: of the measures their heart rates, sweat monitoring, and what
Speaker 1: we see is that when a couple starts to talk
Speaker 1: about a heated discussion, men's markers actually go up much
Speaker 1: higher and quicker than a female's marker. So they are
Speaker 1: more prone to being to feeling flooded and overwhelmed in disagreements.
Speaker 1: And so then they because of that, because of this
Speaker 1: rush of emotion, you know, increased heart rate, shortness of breath,
Speaker 1: more sweating, they are more likely to be the ones
Speaker 1: to shut down in conversations and to not talk about
Speaker 1: their emotions. And if we also then look at the
Speaker 1: attachment research, we do tend to see that more men
Speaker 1: tend to be avoidantly attached, which means it's not that
Speaker 1: they don't have those feelings, is that they feel those
Speaker 1: feelings they are overwhelming, and then they shut them down.
Speaker 1: And men are more likely to compartmentalize as well. You know,
Speaker 1: I see that clinically in my experience. Your partner might
Speaker 1: have a big disagreement with you and then you're still
Speaker 1: thinking about it, but then they come home and you're wondering,
Speaker 1: why aren't they saying anything about it? Because they've compartmentalized it.
Speaker 1: They're like, okay, yeah, she's smiling, We're okay, okay, we're good.
Speaker 1: Let's keep going forward. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly yeah. And
Speaker 1: then the question there's, so how do we start this dialogue?
Speaker 1: Because if we come to them in this place of
Speaker 1: escalation and anger and why aren't you talking about this,
Speaker 1: then that's just going to shut them right down even more.
Speaker 1: And again that's kind of that relationship cycle that we
Speaker 1: so commonly see happen. That's right, So you know, we
Speaker 1: have other moms and we expect community who had a
Speaker 1: lot of questions. I hear it mainly from women who
Speaker 1: are assuming this is true, less so from guys who
Speaker 1: have experienced it. But do you have any tips for
Speaker 1: rebuilding attraction? I don't necessarily believe this happens, but that
Speaker 1: you know a man who witnesses, you know, a baby
Speaker 1: coming out of a vagina feels differently about the vagina.
Speaker 1: First of all, how much of a man miss do
Speaker 1: you think that is? Or do you hear it quite
Speaker 1: a lot as well? And what can you do about that?
Speaker 1: I actually haven't really heard that. I've heard more from
Speaker 1: men that birth thing is an incredibly vulnerable experience where
Speaker 1: partners feel closer together. They do need to do some
Speaker 1: of their own processing. But definitely I don't tend to
Speaker 1: hear that this has changed it. But what I think
Speaker 1: is more relevant here is how your partner sees you
Speaker 1: viewing yourself and how you feel towards your postpartum body. Now,
Speaker 1: that's very true. Yeah, so we are perceiving ourselves. That's
Speaker 1: why I think it's more of a perception thing or
Speaker 1: on a woman's side, than it is an actual man thing.
Speaker 1: Though I've heard women say that their partners have expressed
Speaker 1: that I have to. For me, I was so nervous
Speaker 1: about because I had literally I hadn't known him that
Speaker 1: long before I got pregnant, and I said to the
Speaker 1: nurse when I was pushing, I was like, he can't
Speaker 1: see me poop. That was my interpretation of him, will
Speaker 1: never look at me the same way. That's so much
Speaker 1: pressure on you. And I wonder in this situation of
Speaker 1: you know, for you to feel good about yourself, are
Speaker 1: you taking a mirror and looking at your valva and
Speaker 1: looking to see how things have changed, and are you
Speaker 1: spending time loving this area of your body so that
Speaker 1: then when your partner then joins you can they also
Speaker 1: see your excitement about sharing your body with them. And
Speaker 1: I think that builds more intimacy than just don't look
Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, no, I know. I feel like I
Speaker 1: have a huge, like wallop about my business. After having
Speaker 1: two kids, I don't feel as confident. And we know
Speaker 1: that sex doesn't happen between the legs, right, it happens
Speaker 1: between the ear. So true, but what do women do
Speaker 1: about feeling insecure in their own postpartum skin? You know,
Speaker 1: one of the things we haven't really tapped on yet
Speaker 1: today is that piece around our own identity? So how
Speaker 1: are you as mom, as a new mom, nurturing your identity?
Speaker 1: Are you going out to see your friends, are you
Speaker 1: going out for walks? Do you do things that nurture
Speaker 1: who you are? And do you feel good because that
Speaker 1: also brings you that whole self rather than just viewing
Speaker 1: that there's something about your body. So I would think
Speaker 1: that that's one of the most important things to start with.
Speaker 1: But then also goodness like just looking at our bodies
Speaker 1: and seeing what our bodies have done for us, finding
Speaker 1: clothes that fit us and make us feel attractive no
Speaker 1: matter what side, no matter what size, not trying to
Speaker 1: fit into those old jeans. Right, your body has changed,
Speaker 1: but you still need to feel good day to day
Speaker 1: rather than waiting for some magical moment where maybe those
Speaker 1: genes will fit, or maybe your thing is masscary each
Speaker 1: day or something that's going to help you to feel good. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it is our job
Speaker 1: to communicate our thoughts and feelings, opinions, and our needs,
Speaker 1: and we're responsible for how we communicate that, but we're
Speaker 1: not responsible for how our partner feels when we communicate that.
Speaker 1: That brings up another question from the community, which is,
Speaker 1: how do you deal with that resentment tracy that you
Speaker 1: talked about when one parent is doing more than the other.
Speaker 1: We don't want to go to our partners and say
Speaker 1: I resent you, this is awful what's going on between us?
Speaker 1: That will just send alarm bells off for them. But
Speaker 1: instead we want to start making our unspoken needs spoken.
Speaker 1: We want to be able to offload those things and
Speaker 1: sometimes they might be small pieces to start with, but
Speaker 1: it's about being consistent and continuing to have our partner
Speaker 1: step in. So one mom said her husband says he
Speaker 1: has postpartum depression and she wants to know how she
Speaker 1: can help him. Yeah, this is to tough one. You know.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes what women do is we start to
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable when we see our partners struggling, whether it's
Speaker 1: with depression or anxiety, and so what we want to
Speaker 1: do is we start to jump in there to fix
Speaker 1: and problem solve. And this really isn't a helpful position
Speaker 1: to take when our partners are struggling. It alleviates more
Speaker 1: of our own anxiety and more than helping our partner out.
Speaker 1: So one of the most important things we can do
Speaker 1: around mental health when our partners are struggling is really
Speaker 1: just to hold space for our partner, which means I
Speaker 1: see you, I see that you're struggling, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask you how you're doing and make space for
Speaker 1: you to tell me what your struggle is. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to dismiss it or problem solve it. I'm going
Speaker 1: to make that space. But what I think is really
Speaker 1: important here is that we don't get into a space
Speaker 1: of enabling that de activation that comes with depression, so
Speaker 1: that we do still want our partners to be part
Speaker 1: of babies life. Yes, one partner could have depression and
Speaker 1: we can support them, but we do still want to
Speaker 1: facilitate connecting with our values and that's really important. One
Speaker 1: therapy that definitely helps with feelings of depression or anxiety
Speaker 1: is that closeness between you and your baby. Not inevitably,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it definitely does. Absolutely that's so important. And
Speaker 1: then asking your partners to come along with us. So
Speaker 1: if we're taking baby for a walk, okay, you wear baby,
Speaker 1: let's go for a walk together. Rather than kind of
Speaker 1: that top down of saying you need therapy, you need
Speaker 1: to go do this, you need to look after yourself
Speaker 1: and then have a different way of processing and dealing
Speaker 1: with depression. Right, so they may mask it in other
Speaker 1: ways and may need you to help them get help. Right,
Speaker 1: And that comes back to that, you know, what were
Speaker 1: the conversations we're going to have before baby comes that
Speaker 1: can we talk about what are we going to do
Speaker 1: when one partner struggles? How will we signal to each other?
Speaker 1: How will we support each other when those big emotions
Speaker 1: come up? Personally? For me, you know we met, we
Speaker 1: got engaged. After three months, I got pregnanti formant, and
Speaker 1: you know that time that we got to know each other.
Speaker 1: In that formant, I looked great, like I always like,
Speaker 1: it was the very very early stage of the relationship.
Speaker 1: So you dressed up, you look amazing and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And now like, because I feel like, and this is
Speaker 1: gonna sound horrible, but I feel like he got jipped.
Speaker 1: Like I feel like it was like false advertisement because
Speaker 1: I had all my ship together and now it's like,
Speaker 1: which comes back to that, how do you define your
Speaker 1: worth here as a And that's that's my bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a very I'm very insecure, But Emma, that in
Speaker 1: that sense though, that anxiety there with that insecurity. It
Speaker 1: is something that women experience that you know, they attribute
Speaker 1: this distance between us because I had a baby, when actually,
Speaker 1: oftentimes there are a lot of other things that are happening,
Speaker 1: not just because you know, you've been wearing mom pants
Speaker 1: for a year or whenever it is right that that
Speaker 1: Actually there's a lot of other things. And what I
Speaker 1: do hear male partners often saying is they're like, you
Speaker 1: know you weren't sleeping, so I didn't approach you because
Speaker 1: I wanted to give you space. But meanwhile, the other partner,
Speaker 1: who feels insecure and anxious is saying, I thought it
Speaker 1: was all me. You know, it must have been me.
Speaker 1: There must be something wrong with me, And so we're
Speaker 1: making um that misattribution there to why we're not having sex.
Speaker 1: How do we bridge this gap? Like it really is
Speaker 1: this big gap? And I truly do wish that if
Speaker 1: anyone listening, can you know, if you're struggling in this,
Speaker 1: you don't have to keep waiting. You can do things
Speaker 1: to help yourself. Don't keep waiting, because the longer you wait,
Speaker 1: the bigger that gap grows, and the more that resentment
Speaker 1: build and we just don't want that to happen for years.
Speaker 1: So how do you bridge that gap? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: just touch each other, like come back and say, can
Speaker 1: I just rub your arm today? Go back to those
Speaker 1: hugs and take the pressure off that. There's got to
Speaker 1: be some way that we can get intentional around what
Speaker 1: feels good for each other. That's the ticket. So Emma
Speaker 1: and many others need to know where to find you.
Speaker 1: The main space that I hang out in is Instagram,
Speaker 1: So I'm over there Dr dot chc D and on
Speaker 1: my website Dr chacy d dot com. I have all
Speaker 1: kinds of free resources there, and you can also find
Speaker 1: my podcast and my online space where I help couples
Speaker 1: to and feel empowered and improve their relationships. So it
Speaker 1: reach out to me. I love getting social on there.
Speaker 1: That's that's what it's really far. Thank you. I've learned
Speaker 1: a lot. Thank you so much for having me here.
Speaker 1: Thanks Hidi, Thank you, Emma, baby love my baby love.
Speaker 1: I need you, Oh how I need you. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Remember I'm always here for you. What to expect is
Speaker 1: always here for you. We're all in this together. For
Speaker 1: more on what you heard on today's episode, visit What
Speaker 1: to Expect dot com slash podcast. You can also check
Speaker 1: out What to Expect when You're Expecting, What to Expect
Speaker 1: the First Year, and the What to Expect app. And
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Connect with us on
Speaker 1: our community message board or on our social media. You
Speaker 1: can find me at Heidi Murkoff and Emma at Emma
Speaker 1: bing wt E and of course at What to Expect.
Speaker 1: Baby Love is performed by Riley Peterer. What to Expect
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. From more shows
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