1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Who baby, my baby, I need you, Oh how I 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: need you? What to expect? As a production of I 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, I'm your host Heidi Murkoff, and I'm a 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: mom on a mission, a mission to help you know 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: what to expect every step of the way. Let's face it, 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: you've got baby on the brain, and whether that baby 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: is still in your belly already snuggled up in your arms, 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: you are one hundred percent obsessed and preoccupied. And that 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: makes sense. And both you and your partner are officially 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: or soon to be parents as little as they are. 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: Having a baby is a really big deal. But somewhere 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: in the back of your baby overloaded mind, you may 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: be wondering what happens to the two of us when 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: baby makes three. Will you still be a couple or 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: will you just become a couple of parents? Will you 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: live to love each other again in the same way. 17 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: The answer is yes, yes, one thousand times yes. But 18 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: like nurturing a baby, nurturing a relationship takes time, commitment, 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: and a lot of hard work. Happily, we're about to 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: make it seem a little bit easier. Today M and 21 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: I are talking relationships with Dr Tracy Dalglish Tracy as 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist and couple therapists who specializes in helping 23 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: couples postpartum with everything from maintaining intimacy to preventing resentment, 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: to learning to communicate and work as a team to 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: parent your new little bundle of joy. She's also a 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: mom of two and a partner in parenting as both 27 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: Emma and I are. So and well, let's start with you. 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: What was the hardest adjustment for you and Simon when 29 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: you brought Stevy home. You already have Lenox. Yeah, so 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: I feel like, in a sense that I was kind 31 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: of lucky without because I was a single m and 32 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: so Simon and I got knocked up after like four 33 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: months of dating, so we really didn't have that honeymoon 34 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: phase that a lot of couples have, and I'm always 35 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: kind of envious to the couples who get that time, 36 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: which we never got. Although I'm grateful for the fact 37 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: that I had Lennox, so even when we started dating, 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, there was time issues and scheduling and so 39 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: we were kind of prepared in that sense. But I 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: really feel now, especially because it's been so rough for 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: this past year, that we really could have used that 42 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: alone time. For me, the hardest thing is making time 43 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, I am so tired, 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: and for us at least, like the relationship is always 45 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: kind of put on the back burner. We need to 46 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: build on reconnecting at the end of the day instead 47 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: of disconnecting because we're there's a lot of disconnection happening. 48 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: I mean, my husband works fourteen hours a day, so 49 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: he's exhausted. He gets into bed, he's out like a light. 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: And when he's not working, he's with the kids. And 51 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: that makes me so happy because personally, I would rather 52 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: have them have that time. Although it's kind of affecting 53 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: a relationship, and when it comes to a relationship that 54 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: kind of falls into the third party, like it's the 55 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: it's it's work kids relationship, and I feel like a 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: lot of people feel that way, and I want to 57 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: learn how to prioritize but also still have my kids 58 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: have their dad. Fortunately, for you and for all the 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: moms out there and dads, we have a professional in 60 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: the house, and I am so glad we do. Tracy, 61 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you 62 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: so much for inviting me. I am so glad to 63 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: be sitting with both of you, Heidi and Emma. At 64 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: what point did you realize that you wanted to focus 65 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: on helping new parents with their relationships. You know, it's 66 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: interesting when I think about this question that we often 67 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: can say what leads us to certain areas of work 68 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: is often our own experience as a psychologist and couples therapists. 69 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: I was working within maternal mental health in in practice 70 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: already and helping women in the postpartum period, helping couples 71 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: after they had had children, But it wasn't truly until 72 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: I had my own child, my first one, that I 73 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: was just side tracked with, you know, just the disparity 74 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: of information that is being provided to women and couples 75 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: before having a baby. And I mean, I think so 76 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: many of us can relate to this one where you 77 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: go to your six week check up and they say, 78 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: all right, you're good, You're all clear, and I'm thinking 79 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: all clear for what I'm backing most of the time, 80 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: I'm sweating at night, I'm up in the middle of 81 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: the night, ready for what. And my partner and I, 82 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we were both navigating the role changes are 83 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: changes and identities and then also all the changes in 84 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: our relationships. And while I knew all of the communication 85 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: tools and strategies, no one could have prepared me for 86 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: the mental load that came on after having our first child. Yeah, 87 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: so you didn't exactly know what to expect. No, I 88 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: feel like unrealistic expectations can be at the root of 89 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: relationships struggles that are ahead. They can almost forecast it, 90 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: because babies bring big changes, and there's changes in every 91 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: aspect of your life. They change your lifestyle, your schedule, 92 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: you're all of your relationships absolutely, and you know, we 93 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: think of all the things that we prepare for, We 94 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: prepare for the nursery, we prepare for labor, we do 95 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: the readings, and we rarely prepare our relationships. That's right. 96 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: So what are some of the most common issues that 97 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: you see in couples dealing with that change in relationship 98 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: when they bring a new baby home. What don't they expect? Yes, oh, yes, Well, 99 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to mind is navigating all 100 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: of the emotions that show up. So for many moms 101 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: they talk about well and both parents, the depression, the anxiety, 102 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: the blues, the baby blues that show up, you know, 103 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: the random tearfulness, and then also the rage that shows 104 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: up during that time for women as well. It's not 105 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: something that we are prepared for we talk about, and 106 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: the challenge with this is that we also don't always 107 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: know how to share our feelings or even ask for 108 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: our needs. So that is one of the top things 109 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: that I see show up. But on top of that, 110 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: which is the big piece I've already alluded to, is 111 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: navigating the roles and the demands that show up. You know, 112 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: if you are breastfeeding, have you talked about who's waking 113 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: up with baby to do the diaper change first before feeding? 114 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: Are you sharing the night feedings? You know, that's something 115 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: that we don't tend to talk about. And ultimately all 116 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: of this goes into our intimacy, right we do not 117 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: prepare the conversations around how will we maintain our physical closeness, 118 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: what will we do to remain close? And all of 119 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,799 Speaker 1: this goes into the side. We just keep going because 120 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: we're in survival mode learning how to you know, rock 121 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: this baby and feed the baby. And then resentment starts 122 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: to build up, and many moms are so surprised to 123 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: experience the level of resentment towards a partner. My theory 124 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: is two old. One is the obvious. That's society talking. Still, 125 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: even though society is way behind the wheel, right, we 126 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: expect moms to be nurtures. We don't expect that necessarily 127 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: of dad's. And the problem I feel is number two, 128 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: that the dads aren't given the chance, that women have 129 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: a way of taking over, and then they sort of 130 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: step away from the changing table, they step away from everything, 131 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: they step away from the relationship because it's all baby 132 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: and mommy. Absolutely, yes, absolutely, those are two key pieces. 133 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: So what society tells us I hear from a lot 134 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: of mothers this internal guilt. I should be able to 135 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: do it all. I shouldn't burden my partner. They shouldn't 136 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: have to wake up in the middle of the night 137 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: with me, you know somehow, and you know, for a 138 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: good reason. We're nurturing and caring. But this is about 139 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: being that collaborative and co creating this family together. Huge piece. 140 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: But then the other piece that I love what you've 141 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: said they're harty is that dad's aren't given the chance. 142 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: And this is where maternal gatekeeping really comes into play. Oh, 143 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: I love that phrase. Yes, and it starts really early 144 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: on that you know, naturally, we start to maybe feel 145 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: uncomfortable feelings as we're seeing dad trying to navigate crying baby, 146 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: so we think, Okay, well baby's uncomfortable, I'm uncomfortable. Let 147 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: me jump in, rather than mom just taking that step 148 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: back and saying, Okay, my partner needs to learn to 149 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: do this as well, So I'm going to let them 150 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: do that, and maybe I will take this opportunity to 151 00:08:48,760 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: go have a shower or do something for myself. Trees, 152 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious how you feel that the pandemic it's changed 153 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: so much about our lives, But how do you think 154 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: it's changed relationships for the better and for the worst. Yeah, 155 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: for for the for the better in some ways, So 156 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: when I'm thinking of when baby comes home, of all 157 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: of the new parents during this time, in some ways, 158 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: what has been really good about this opportunity is that 159 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: if your partner is working from home, that has been 160 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: a beautiful space that I've been able to tap into 161 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: with a lot of my clients as well. So if rage, anxiety, 162 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: or depression are showing up, can you just gently knock 163 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: on your partner's door and they can hold baby for 164 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: ten minutes while you go and do something for yourself. 165 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: That has been a huge benefit. Now downfall, unfortunately, though, 166 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: is that we know that to really feel good during 167 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: the postpartum period, especially in the first six months, we 168 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: need to have a strong social support network, and families 169 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: are just having this taken away from them right now 170 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: that you know you can't lean on you know, maybe 171 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: your mom coming to live with you for two weeks, 172 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: or friends dropping by and holding babies so you can 173 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: take the shower or make the meal for yourself. We're 174 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: just really having to go through this time on our own, 175 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: and as a result, parents are getting exhausted and they 176 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: are burnt out without being able to lean on anyone 177 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: for more support. Now that's true. And Emma, how about you. 178 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: I think part of the problem for you is that 179 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: you're both working at home, but Simon's one who's working 180 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: fourteen hours a day. Yeah, so you know, communication is 181 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: really important and I'm not the greatest communicator. I think 182 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm communicating, but I'm thinking it and I expect him 183 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: to read my mind at all times, and then I explode. 184 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: So there needs to be away where I can communicate 185 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: in a healthy way. I'll get like so mad at 186 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: the end of the day. Because he's upstairs working and 187 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: I'm taking care of the kids. I'm doing school pickups, 188 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing school with Lenox, I'm cleaning, I'm making dinner. 189 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: And then I start like throwing dishes in the sink, 190 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, and I slammed doors and I slammed And 191 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: that's not good for my kids either, to see me 192 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: like that. So I think communication is so incredibly important, 193 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: and that's something that I obviously need to work on. 194 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: And can I normalize that that nobody really teaches us 195 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: the communication piece. We don't learn what to do with 196 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: our feelings and how to express them and get them out. 197 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: And you know, I posted something recently about when you 198 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: say I feel like you never help out, it's actually 199 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: not a feeling word. But many people, for they were saying, oh, 200 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: that's a light bulb moment, right, okay, versus the saying 201 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling frustrated, I need help. We 202 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: just don't learn how to do that. I appreciate that, 203 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: that's that's very true. How does Emma and how do 204 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: other couples work on communicating before the baby even arrives 205 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: on the scene, Yes, before the baby even arrives. Okay, 206 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: so we need to make sure looking at how we 207 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: are communicating, are we getting into negative communication patterns? So 208 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: those are the patterns of blame and criticism, defensiveness, Are 209 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: we um contemptuous towards our partner? Or are we stonewalling? 210 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: Those communication patterns lead to us into negative interaction cycles. 211 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: And that looks like as I'm pursuing you, as I'm 212 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: approaching you for attention and affection, one partner might step back, 213 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: and as that partner step back, you start to knock 214 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: on the door louder, Hello, I need help, where are you? 215 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: And the louder you get, the other person withdraws more. 216 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: And so couples get into these patterns that are often 217 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: there even before baby comes, but we haven't learned to 218 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: necessarily get out of them beforehand. So that would be 219 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: the first thing that we really need to work on beforehand. So, am, 220 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: how does that sound to you? That sounds that sounds doable? 221 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: And yeah, that does sound too. I feel like I 222 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: feel like empowered, Like it's a new day, it's a 223 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: new dawn, it's a new day. I have an example 224 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: for this, you know, I'm I'm sure you can relate 225 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: to this party. I know you can relate to this 226 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: as well. As it's kind of like a month in advance. 227 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: You get the party invite and you're like, yeah, the party. 228 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: I can't wait to go to the party. Right the 229 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: day of the party, you think, oh gosh, why did 230 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: I say yes, I don't want to go, and so 231 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: you said, all right, I'm gonna go. Anyways, So you 232 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: go to the party, and then afterwards you say, oh, 233 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm so glad I went to the Party's not so 234 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: true into missing in our relationships is exactly that. So 235 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: even though you know, I had one couple that described 236 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: this perfectly. The male partner would go and give her 237 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: a hug and she's like, I don't want to hug. 238 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to hug, and he would say, I'm 239 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: just gonna hold you. I'm gonna keep squeezing you, and 240 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: after a few seconds she would let herself release into 241 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: it exactly, And it's very much like a toddler, like 242 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: when they're having a tantrum. Sometimes giving them a big 243 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: giant hug, even if you're mad at them and they're 244 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: mad at you, it communicates in a way that words can't, 245 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: and it melts down that resentment or that anger, and 246 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: in moment you feel close and connected. But there's also 247 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: the issue of time. Like big time, it's hard to 248 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: find time. Jersey, what's some advice you have for couples 249 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: who feel like they don't have the time. Yeah, how 250 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: do you're talking about? The number one thing I say 251 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: to couples, which is getting intentional to schedule it. It 252 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be rigid, but it's an agreement that 253 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, every Sunday night we have a thirty minute 254 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: connection time where we have no distractions. It's the getting 255 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: out of the all or nothing. Right. We can't take 256 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: the weekend away just the two of us, the adventure, 257 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: the week long adventure, so we're not going to do 258 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: anything it. No, it's more about those small, manageable pieces 259 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: that you can do every single day, and I think 260 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: those do have more meaning even than the weekend away, 261 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: which comes with so many expectations like vacation. You have 262 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: to have sex so many times a day and have 263 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: all this intimacy. But in fact, if you who actually 264 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: make time for it at home and it's just twenty minutes, 265 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: that can mean more, at least cumulatively. Now, of course 266 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: this says bring us to intimacy. And it's funny how 267 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: people use it as a euphemism for sex, But I 268 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: think of sex as sex and intimacy as something that 269 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: is all the time. One of the things I think 270 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: is so important around this is, first, let's let's redefine sex. 271 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: And how do I agree with what you're saying around 272 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: that is that it is not just this sex as 273 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: an intercourse. It is more about this intimacy of let's 274 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: think of all the ways we can be intimate, physical intimacy, 275 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: sexual intimacy, which is intercourse or outer course. Right, there's 276 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: pleasure on the outside of our bodies as well, emotional 277 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: intimacy sharing our thoughts and feelings, intellectual intimacy, which is 278 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: let's listen to a podcast or read a book together 279 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: and share our ideas over that. Or my favorite and 280 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: my go to is the experiential intimacy. We painted our 281 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: main floor during COVID and we felt so close doing 282 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: this project together. Right, that's so cute. I love that 283 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: in the postpartum period, in that first year, it doesn't 284 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: have to be sex, but instead let's find the other 285 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: ways that we can bridge that connection. Absolutely, I agree. 286 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: I think that for me though, when you don't have 287 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: sex as often as you used to, it's a little 288 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: bit like stressful. What's interesting, though, is that for me 289 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: during that newborn stage, the baby stage, that was the 290 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: easy stage. And now that I have a toddler, of 291 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: my vaginas shut. It's closed up because I'm tired. Absolutely. 292 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: And what we're talking about there is responsive desire versus 293 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: spontaneous desire. And it is incredibly hard to have spontaneous 294 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: desire when you are carrying a backpack of bricks on 295 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: and inside of that backpack is the number of diapers 296 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: you've changed, the running around toddler, and the tantrums and 297 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: the melting down, and then the laundry and all of 298 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: that on top of it. And then you go to 299 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: the bedroom at the end of the day you have 300 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: no energy left, and you think, somehow I'm going to 301 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: be lubricated and excited and and you can with a 302 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: backpack of bricks and you look over and there is 303 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: the laundry basket full of clothes that you didn't get 304 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: to do. So spontaneous desire does tend to fade as 305 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: we move through this stage. But what's important is we 306 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: remember the responsive desire which is if you get into 307 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: bed and you lie your bodies next to each other 308 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: and you start to touch each other in ways that 309 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: feel good, then assault your body is going to respond. 310 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: And I think that's also important that we remember that 311 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: as women, that is something that we are more likely 312 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: to experience compared to compared to men in heterosexual relationship. Yeah, 313 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: that's true, you know, but I think that dad's also 314 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: experience postpartum, you know, baby blues. They they have changes 315 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: in their hormones that you know, lower test saucetone. They're 316 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: feelings sleep deprived, not to the extent maybe that we are, 317 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: but it does changing too. Yeah, their lobito might not 318 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: be what it was. But what do we do as women? 319 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: We assume that it's us, like we're not sexy anymore, right, right. 320 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: I think that people need to be more willing to 321 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: have dialogues around this, and that that dialogue is not 322 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: something that's personal. And that is one of the hardest 323 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: things that I see for couples when I come into 324 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: my office is they just do not know how to 325 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: talk about sex as something that we can create together, 326 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: but that it's not personal, and that we can make 327 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: space for both people to have an experience, and if 328 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: one partner wants it five times a week and the 329 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: other one is okay with one once a month, maybe 330 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,239 Speaker 1: even we've got to find that middle space together and 331 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: how we're going to work through it because we need 332 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: to consider both people. You know, it's really interesting that 333 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: oftentimes when a mom does say to her partner in session, 334 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: I don't want you to come near me. I don't 335 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: want to give you hugs because I'm worried that if 336 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: I let you hug me, you're going to want sex. 337 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: And so then we get this assumption or this perception 338 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: that any touch from my partner is going to leave 339 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: to them wanting sex. And the male partner will often say, 340 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,479 Speaker 1: I just want to be close to you, I just 341 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: want to hold you. That it is not always me 342 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: coming in for sex. It is let's build closeness. And 343 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: it puts a lot of pressure on him as well, 344 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: right if he thinks that, you know, he brings sex 345 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: to the table, you know, and it has to be sex. So, Ama, 346 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: how do you feel about going to give Simon a hug? 347 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm such a I don't know, like I think that 348 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: you and I are very different because I think that 349 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: sometimes like when I'm mad, like I want to stay mad, 350 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: and I want to have that reason to be mad 351 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: and to like hold a grudge and to have him 352 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: like gravel, and that's such a horrible quality. But I 353 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: feel like, so if I give in and I give 354 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: that hug, it's like I'm letting that go, and maybe 355 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: I'm not ready to let it go. What if you 356 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 1: could have both, Emma, What if you could still have 357 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: your mad feelings and you can still have your partner. 358 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: I think I think that would be great. I think, honestly, 359 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: it would probably make me a much happier, less dressed out, 360 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: angry person if I would release some of the anger 361 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: and let go of things easier. I think what you're 362 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: speaking to, Emma is the sense that what we really 363 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: need to feel is being seen from our partners. We 364 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: really want to know that they see what we're feeling. 365 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: And sometimes our partners come in and say, Okay, you're struggling, 366 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: how can I fix it? How can I problem solve, 367 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: Let me do this, I'll do that, and they really 368 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: miss what it is that we're feeling. And exactly when 369 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: they miss it, then we start to dig in even further. 370 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: Rather than being able to communicate them. Can you see 371 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: just the feeling that I'm having right now? I just 372 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: need you to see that I'm angry about this. Yeah. 373 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: And I think men and women generally are wired differently. 374 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: And my husband obviously does not think the same way 375 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: I do, just like he doesn't understand necessarily like why 376 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: I feel a certain way. Sometimes I'm like understood, don't 377 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: understand why he feels a certain way. Yeah, And I'm 378 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: curious to hear what you have to say about that, Tracy. 379 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: If we go to the search. So the research by 380 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: John Gottmann's group, they have studied over a three thousand couples. 381 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: They've hooked men and women, heterosexual couples up to all 382 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: of the measures their heart rates, sweat monitoring, and what 383 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: we see is that when a couple starts to talk 384 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: about a heated discussion, men's markers actually go up much 385 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: higher and quicker than a female's marker. So they are 386 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: more prone to being to feeling flooded and overwhelmed in disagreements. 387 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: And so then they because of that, because of this 388 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: rush of emotion, you know, increased heart rate, shortness of breath, 389 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: more sweating, they are more likely to be the ones 390 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: to shut down in conversations and to not talk about 391 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: their emotions. And if we also then look at the 392 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: attachment research, we do tend to see that more men 393 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: tend to be avoidantly attached, which means it's not that 394 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: they don't have those feelings, is that they feel those 395 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: feelings they are overwhelming, and then they shut them down. 396 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: And men are more likely to compartmentalize as well. You know, 397 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: I see that clinically in my experience. Your partner might 398 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: have a big disagreement with you and then you're still 399 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: thinking about it, but then they come home and you're wondering, 400 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: why aren't they saying anything about it? Because they've compartmentalized it. 401 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: They're like, okay, yeah, she's smiling, We're okay, okay, we're good. 402 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: Let's keep going forward. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly yeah. And 403 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: then the question there's, so how do we start this dialogue? 404 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: Because if we come to them in this place of 405 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: escalation and anger and why aren't you talking about this, 406 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: then that's just going to shut them right down even more. 407 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: And again that's kind of that relationship cycle that we 408 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: so commonly see happen. That's right, So you know, we 409 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: have other moms and we expect community who had a 410 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: lot of questions. I hear it mainly from women who 411 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: are assuming this is true, less so from guys who 412 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: have experienced it. But do you have any tips for 413 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: rebuilding attraction? I don't necessarily believe this happens, but that 414 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: you know a man who witnesses, you know, a baby 415 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: coming out of a vagina feels differently about the vagina. 416 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: First of all, how much of a man miss do 417 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: you think that is? Or do you hear it quite 418 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: a lot as well? And what can you do about that? 419 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: I actually haven't really heard that. I've heard more from 420 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: men that birth thing is an incredibly vulnerable experience where 421 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: partners feel closer together. They do need to do some 422 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: of their own processing. But definitely I don't tend to 423 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: hear that this has changed it. But what I think 424 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: is more relevant here is how your partner sees you 425 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: viewing yourself and how you feel towards your postpartum body. Now, 426 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: that's very true. Yeah, so we are perceiving ourselves. That's 427 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: why I think it's more of a perception thing or 428 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: on a woman's side, than it is an actual man thing. 429 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: Though I've heard women say that their partners have expressed 430 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: that I have to. For me, I was so nervous 431 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: about because I had literally I hadn't known him that 432 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: long before I got pregnant, and I said to the 433 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: nurse when I was pushing, I was like, he can't 434 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: see me poop. That was my interpretation of him, will 435 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: never look at me the same way. That's so much 436 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: pressure on you. And I wonder in this situation of 437 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: you know, for you to feel good about yourself, are 438 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: you taking a mirror and looking at your valva and 439 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: looking to see how things have changed, and are you 440 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: spending time loving this area of your body so that 441 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: then when your partner then joins you can they also 442 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: see your excitement about sharing your body with them. And 443 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: I think that builds more intimacy than just don't look 444 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, no, I know. I feel like I 445 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: have a huge, like wallop about my business. After having 446 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: two kids, I don't feel as confident. And we know 447 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: that sex doesn't happen between the legs, right, it happens 448 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,239 Speaker 1: between the ear. So true, but what do women do 449 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: about feeling insecure in their own postpartum skin? You know, 450 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: one of the things we haven't really tapped on yet 451 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: today is that piece around our own identity? So how 452 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: are you as mom, as a new mom, nurturing your identity? 453 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: Are you going out to see your friends, are you 454 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: going out for walks? Do you do things that nurture 455 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: who you are? And do you feel good because that 456 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: also brings you that whole self rather than just viewing 457 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: that there's something about your body. So I would think 458 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: that that's one of the most important things to start with. 459 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: But then also goodness like just looking at our bodies 460 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: and seeing what our bodies have done for us, finding 461 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: clothes that fit us and make us feel attractive no 462 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: matter what side, no matter what size, not trying to 463 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: fit into those old jeans. Right, your body has changed, 464 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: but you still need to feel good day to day 465 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: rather than waiting for some magical moment where maybe those 466 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: genes will fit, or maybe your thing is masscary each 467 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: day or something that's going to help you to feel good. Ultimately, 468 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it is our job 469 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: to communicate our thoughts and feelings, opinions, and our needs, 470 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: and we're responsible for how we communicate that, but we're 471 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: not responsible for how our partner feels when we communicate that. 472 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: That brings up another question from the community, which is, 473 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: how do you deal with that resentment tracy that you 474 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: talked about when one parent is doing more than the other. 475 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: We don't want to go to our partners and say 476 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: I resent you, this is awful what's going on between us? 477 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: That will just send alarm bells off for them. But 478 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: instead we want to start making our unspoken needs spoken. 479 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: We want to be able to offload those things and 480 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: sometimes they might be small pieces to start with, but 481 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: it's about being consistent and continuing to have our partner 482 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: step in. So one mom said her husband says he 483 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: has postpartum depression and she wants to know how she 484 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: can help him. Yeah, this is to tough one. You know. 485 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: I think sometimes what women do is we start to 486 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable when we see our partners struggling, whether it's 487 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: with depression or anxiety, and so what we want to 488 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: do is we start to jump in there to fix 489 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: and problem solve. And this really isn't a helpful position 490 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: to take when our partners are struggling. It alleviates more 491 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: of our own anxiety and more than helping our partner out. 492 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: So one of the most important things we can do 493 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: around mental health when our partners are struggling is really 494 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: just to hold space for our partner, which means I 495 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: see you, I see that you're struggling, and I'm going 496 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: to ask you how you're doing and make space for 497 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: you to tell me what your struggle is. I'm not 498 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: going to dismiss it or problem solve it. I'm going 499 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: to make that space. But what I think is really 500 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: important here is that we don't get into a space 501 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: of enabling that de activation that comes with depression, so 502 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: that we do still want our partners to be part 503 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: of babies life. Yes, one partner could have depression and 504 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: we can support them, but we do still want to 505 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: facilitate connecting with our values and that's really important. One 506 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: therapy that definitely helps with feelings of depression or anxiety 507 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: is that closeness between you and your baby. Not inevitably, 508 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: but sometimes it definitely does. Absolutely that's so important. And 509 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: then asking your partners to come along with us. So 510 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: if we're taking baby for a walk, okay, you wear baby, 511 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: let's go for a walk together. Rather than kind of 512 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: that top down of saying you need therapy, you need 513 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: to go do this, you need to look after yourself 514 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: and then have a different way of processing and dealing 515 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: with depression. Right, so they may mask it in other 516 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: ways and may need you to help them get help. Right, 517 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: And that comes back to that, you know, what were 518 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: the conversations we're going to have before baby comes that 519 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: can we talk about what are we going to do 520 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: when one partner struggles? How will we signal to each other? 521 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: How will we support each other when those big emotions 522 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: come up? Personally? For me, you know we met, we 523 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: got engaged. After three months, I got pregnanti formant, and 524 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: you know that time that we got to know each other. 525 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: In that formant, I looked great, like I always like, 526 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: it was the very very early stage of the relationship. 527 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: So you dressed up, you look amazing and blah blah blah. 528 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: And now like, because I feel like, and this is 529 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: gonna sound horrible, but I feel like he got jipped. 530 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: Like I feel like it was like false advertisement because 531 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: I had all my ship together and now it's like, 532 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: which comes back to that, how do you define your 533 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: worth here as a And that's that's my bad. Yeah, 534 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: I'm a very I'm very insecure, But Emma, that in 535 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: that sense though, that anxiety there with that insecurity. It 536 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: is something that women experience that you know, they attribute 537 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: this distance between us because I had a baby, when actually, 538 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: oftentimes there are a lot of other things that are happening, 539 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: not just because you know, you've been wearing mom pants 540 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: for a year or whenever it is right that that 541 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: Actually there's a lot of other things. And what I 542 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: do hear male partners often saying is they're like, you 543 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: know you weren't sleeping, so I didn't approach you because 544 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to give you space. But meanwhile, the other partner, 545 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: who feels insecure and anxious is saying, I thought it 546 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: was all me. You know, it must have been me. 547 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: There must be something wrong with me, And so we're 548 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: making um that misattribution there to why we're not having sex. 549 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: How do we bridge this gap? Like it really is 550 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,239 Speaker 1: this big gap? And I truly do wish that if 551 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: anyone listening, can you know, if you're struggling in this, 552 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: you don't have to keep waiting. You can do things 553 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: to help yourself. Don't keep waiting, because the longer you wait, 554 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: the bigger that gap grows, and the more that resentment 555 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: build and we just don't want that to happen for years. 556 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: So how do you bridge that gap? Like, you know, 557 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: just touch each other, like come back and say, can 558 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: I just rub your arm today? Go back to those 559 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: hugs and take the pressure off that. There's got to 560 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: be some way that we can get intentional around what 561 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: feels good for each other. That's the ticket. So Emma 562 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: and many others need to know where to find you. 563 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: The main space that I hang out in is Instagram, 564 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: So I'm over there Dr dot chc D and on 565 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: my website Dr chacy d dot com. I have all 566 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: kinds of free resources there, and you can also find 567 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: my podcast and my online space where I help couples 568 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: to and feel empowered and improve their relationships. So it 569 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: reach out to me. I love getting social on there. 570 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: That's that's what it's really far. Thank you. I've learned 571 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: a lot. Thank you so much for having me here. 572 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: Thanks Hidi, Thank you, Emma, baby love my baby love. 573 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: I need you, Oh how I need you. Thanks for listening. 574 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: Remember I'm always here for you. What to expect is 575 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: always here for you. We're all in this together. For 576 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: more on what you heard on today's episode, visit What 577 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: to Expect dot com slash podcast. You can also check 578 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: out What to Expect when You're Expecting, What to Expect 579 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: the First Year, and the What to Expect app. And 580 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Connect with us on 581 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: our community message board or on our social media. You 582 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: can find me at Heidi Murkoff and Emma at Emma 583 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: bing wt E and of course at What to Expect. 584 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: Baby Love is performed by Riley Peterer. What to Expect 585 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. From more shows 586 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio, check out the I Heart Radio app, 587 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 588 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: In my Arms, what Don't Just Stay Leja Needa, Baby 589 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: Baby