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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Quest Love Supreme and we're celebrating Women's

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Speaker 2: History Month here in March with some special programming drawn

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Speaker 2: from nearly a decade of shows and conversations. And shout

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Speaker 2: out to Laya from Team Supreme who always pushed the

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Speaker 2: programming to QLs to make sure that there is space

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Speaker 2: for these conversations to even happen, especially at times when

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Speaker 2: the team was sometimes crowded by guys.

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Speaker 3: In the room.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we are guilty.

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Speaker 2: It's so weird how we take for granted women's roles

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Speaker 2: in music and in history. I remember as a child

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Speaker 2: oftentimes getting records and legit being shocked. I remember one

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Speaker 2: time my aunt was a part of the Columbia Music House.

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Speaker 2: Asked your parents about that at Google Columbia Music House

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Speaker 2: that was the original Spotify. That's how we got records rapidly.

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Speaker 2: And one day we got night Birds by label in

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Speaker 2: the package in the mail.

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Speaker 1: I believe that was the.

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Speaker 2: Very first time that I saw all women on an

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Speaker 2: album cover and I kept staring at it, and I

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Speaker 2: remember asking my aunt. I was like four years old,

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Speaker 2: and night Birds is the LaBelle album that kind of

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Speaker 2: like brought them to prominence. Of course, their timeless Lady

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Speaker 2: Marmalade was the lead single, that Monster single from that album.

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Speaker 2: And I remember asking my aunt, like, are women allowed

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Speaker 2: to make music? And you know, it's so weird how

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Speaker 2: even at the age of four I had to ask

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Speaker 2: that question, but because you know, you just often didn't

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Speaker 2: see such a thing, which now you know, after having

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Speaker 2: worked on the slo and the Family Stone documentary, I

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Speaker 2: see how revolutionary sly Stone was in nineteen sixty seven.

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Speaker 2: As far as like ginger pairing is concerned, seeing Cynthia

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Speaker 2: Robinson on the trumpet, that's something you just didn't see

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Speaker 2: every day, you know, you didn't see those things. I

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Speaker 2: remember there was a group called Ecstasy, Passion and Pain

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Speaker 2: from Philadelphia and they had a drummer named Cookie and

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Speaker 2: they were on Soul Train, and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 2: girls are allowed.

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Speaker 1: To play drums?

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Speaker 2: Like And you know, I lived in a household with

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Speaker 2: three women, my aunt, my sister, and my mother, and

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Speaker 2: they were constantly, constantly reprogramming me to always give consideration

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Speaker 2: to women and to give them their proper do and

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Speaker 2: their proper respect. And so that's kind of how it

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Speaker 2: starts with me, and you know, as a result, women.

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Speaker 1: Were a big part of our creative circle.

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Speaker 2: Like you know, if you just look at the first

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Speaker 2: movement of jam sessions that we had with Black Lily,

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Speaker 2: primarily female led, simply because when that movement started out

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Speaker 2: initially as the Roots Jam session, a lot of the

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Speaker 2: women that would come would just be huddled up in

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Speaker 2: the corner rather, you know, kind of pissed off that

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Speaker 2: they're not getting any time on the microphone. Like they

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Speaker 2: would sing for like two seconds and then suddenly like

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Speaker 2: an MC would come on and.

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Speaker 1: Then you know, they just give up and walk away

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Speaker 1: in the corner.

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Speaker 2: I remember one particular night there's epic battle between Tracy

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Speaker 2: and the Jazzy Fat Nasties and Rest in Peace Mum's

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Speaker 2: the poet, and they were going at each other and

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Speaker 2: Tracy was getting in his ass like like I'm tired

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Speaker 2: of y'all hogging up the microphone not giving us our

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Speaker 2: say and whatever.

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Speaker 1: You know, Richard Nichols is his whole solution. Rich's job

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Speaker 1: was always to come with this solution. He didn't break

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Speaker 1: up arguments, He just came up with the solution. The

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Speaker 1: solution was, Okay, we will now start a female led

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Speaker 1: jam session so that women get their say.

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Speaker 2: And that's the Black Lily Jam sessions for you.

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Speaker 1: So shout out to Tracy for holding it down. This

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Speaker 1: is part three.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy all right, So we're going to begin with the

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Speaker 2: amazing Tracy Ellis Ross. In this clip, she speaks about

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Speaker 2: wishing to use the physical life changes that women experience

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Speaker 2: to push her towards stand up. This conversation also touches

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Speaker 2: on Blackish covering postpartum and how Tracy had a complicated

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Speaker 2: relationship being an actress with a very famous mother.

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this conversation.

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Speaker 2: I always tried to imagine what it was like to

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Speaker 2: grow up in Los Angeles or Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Assume that you grew up.

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Speaker 4: I grew up in New York.

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Speaker 5: Really yeah, New York, New York and Europe. So I

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Speaker 5: was born here in La I went to the Center,

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Speaker 5: and then we moved to New York so my mom

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Speaker 5: could do the whiz in seventy nine, and we left

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Speaker 5: and started school in New York in seventy.

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Speaker 4: Nine and stayed there until seventh grade. And I'm we

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Speaker 4: moved to Paris and then Switzerland.

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Speaker 5: So I did eighth and ninth grade in Europe, which

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Speaker 5: are pivotal years, and then moved back to the East

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Speaker 5: Coast and then went to Brown.

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Speaker 3: You've got a couple of languages and maybe oh.

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Speaker 6: I just forgot all my friendship.

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Speaker 5: I have lost most of my vocabulary, but I have

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Speaker 5: a strong French accent that can you know, get me

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Speaker 5: by and I can speak English with a French accent

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Speaker 5: like nobody's business.

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Speaker 7: Then you have no idea because you don't know that

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Speaker 7: I speak English of conscience doesn't matter because the people

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Speaker 7: they wander and don't know how you stay in English

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Speaker 7: because the people are their wonder all the time.

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Speaker 4: You know how you say, how you say?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 6: Wait, I'm sorry, I mean almos Tracy, Tracy?

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Speaker 8: Do you right?

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Speaker 5: I do?

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Speaker 8: I write so me.

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Speaker 3: It's funny because I was just thinking you. I know

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Speaker 3: you've done improv. I seen you sketch comedy with the

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Speaker 3: lyricists lounge. Of course, You're a funny lady. How come

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Speaker 3: and I know your I a stand up? Have you

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Speaker 3: ever thought of like just doing.

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Speaker 5: I've not done stand up, but I have to tell

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Speaker 5: you I mean this.

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Speaker 4: I'm forty eight years old.

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Speaker 5: At my forty eight, I'm forty eight and I'm going

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Speaker 5: through the beginning of some changes, some perimenopause, and I've

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Speaker 5: got to tell you that I really get to stand

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Speaker 5: up on this ship because I, first of all, it's

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Speaker 5: got Did you see the that two second pool video

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Speaker 5: I posted?

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Speaker 2: Yes, thoughts there, I heard about that fool video.

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Speaker 1: It's funny.

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Speaker 4: I think it's two seconds. It's two seconds in.

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Speaker 6: That videocy Mater you was in a bathing suit. That's

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Speaker 6: what I heard. That's all I had in a pool.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I have a like it wasn't

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Speaker 5: me in a bathing suit in the kitchen.

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Speaker 8: Actually in the pool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, why is this two seconds?

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Speaker 6: You should do that?

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Speaker 3: Because a female comedian told me that female shouldn't talk

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Speaker 3: about female issues, so please do that.

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Speaker 6: Why was I.

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Speaker 4: Wish more people would talk about it.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know about you, but some of

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Speaker 5: the sexiest and most admirable women that I look at

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Speaker 5: are my age and older. I want to know what's

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Speaker 5: happening and it's.

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Speaker 6: Still happening, and how it happens and what.

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Speaker 5: It is, and like it should be demystified. And I

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Speaker 5: don't think it should be scary to men either. I

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Speaker 5: think it's it's certainly not the end of my life.

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Speaker 5: I am not being pushed out on a canoe out

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Speaker 5: into nowhere.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you that right now.

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Speaker 5: I as I said before, I am a liberated woman. I

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Speaker 5: am out here living my life in all.

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Speaker 4: Of its fullness.

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Speaker 5: Well yeah, and I think people we should talk about

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Speaker 5: it in that way so that we let go of

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Speaker 5: the stigma. It's the same thing like on Blackish when

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Speaker 5: we did that episode on postpartum depression. Why are we

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Speaker 5: not talking about these things when you're siloed off by yourself.

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Speaker 5: That's when you feel termally unique and you don't think

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Speaker 5: that you can you know, it's just you that's in

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Speaker 5: that situation.

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Speaker 4: Nah, We're all doing it.

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Speaker 5: And by the way, men have their own version of

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Speaker 5: what's happening at this age as their home hormones are

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Speaker 5: shifting and changing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, hey, well yeah, I was about to say,

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Speaker 2: will set it off yesterday, even though this is coming.

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Speaker 1: On way later.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, that was so charming and lovely that

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Speaker 4: he did that.

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Speaker 1: And that was my favorite post.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it was so lovely.

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Speaker 5: But I also have to say, like a friend, so

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Speaker 5: many friends and me a text.

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Speaker 4: I did a video on that on Instagram too of

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Speaker 4: people saying you have gained so much weight.

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Speaker 5: Good, bravo, thank your body. You just made it through

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Speaker 5: a pandemic. What else were you supposed to do? And

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, but that layer of softness welcome it because

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Speaker 5: the ship was hard and scary and sharp out there.

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Speaker 8: Everybody make it?

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Speaker 5: No, you know, and so and and our joy and

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Speaker 5: spontaneity was all funneled into very few spaces, most of

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Speaker 5: which involved food and drink. So what y'all thought was

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Speaker 5: gonna happen? And you well, I've never done that, but

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Speaker 5: you know that.

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Speaker 4: But don't worry.

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Speaker 5: I had It's okay, I'm okay.

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Speaker 1: No truth, you never had, no true at all.

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Speaker 4: No, and my friends know. I call it the devil's lettuce.

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Speaker 6: Why did they let you in? The lyricsis lounge?

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Speaker 8: I didn't.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 8: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It can happen. I'm gonna leave bloom or two trades. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I will guide you through this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been I've been saying. I mean, I have

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Speaker 5: so many stories about me thinking I'm gonna walk that

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Speaker 5: way and.

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Speaker 6: Wait till fifty. Just go ahead of wait till fifty.

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Speaker 5: Okay, maybe it'll be my fiftieth birthday, You're gonna send

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Speaker 5: me a package.

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Speaker 1: I'll leave the light one for you. Trust me, I

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Speaker 1: got I got you, Okay.

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Speaker 2: So I always wanted to know, as far as you're

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Speaker 2: growing up as concerned and that you were paired with

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Speaker 2: other kids that were sort of in the same position

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Speaker 2: as you, at what point, at any point, did you

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Speaker 2: ever had to adjust in a world in which people

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Speaker 2: weren't of that sort of cut from that that same cloth,

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Speaker 2: where you had to deal with everyday people, Like, at

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Speaker 2: what point.

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Speaker 4: Were you every day in life? I mean I was,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 5: I First of all, the way I was raised again

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Speaker 5: is everybody is a person.

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Speaker 4: I am one of people. I was not raised to

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Speaker 4: think I was better than anybody.

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Speaker 5: I had certain different opportunities and experiences than other people,

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Speaker 5: but I was always taught to connect on the places

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Speaker 5: that we are the same. We've all got blood running

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Speaker 5: through our veins, and we all have feelings, and we all,

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Speaker 5: most of us are getting up every day trying to

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Speaker 5: do our best and work our hardest and and sort

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Speaker 5: of make at least our lives work.

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Speaker 4: And function properly.

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Speaker 5: So I also come I don't know if I was

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Speaker 5: top this, if I came up with this, if.

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Speaker 4: You know, but to sort of put my.

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Speaker 5: My humanness as the front runner of who I am not.

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Speaker 4: And first of all, I didn't do that. My mom

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Speaker 4: did all those things.

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Speaker 8: She did.

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Speaker 3: She keep you around like a couple of Detroit cousins

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Speaker 3: just to make sure it does y'all new.

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Speaker 4: I went to Detroit every summer, and that's how you

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Speaker 4: do it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, on a palette on the floor and on Bobby's

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Speaker 5: house up the street from Grandmammy and Aunt.

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Speaker 4: Bobby sat me.

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Speaker 5: Between her legs and did my hair with that goodie

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Speaker 5: comb and tried to kill my scalp. And you know, Grandmommy,

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Speaker 5: my Grandma lined us up outside the fancy bathroom downstairs

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Speaker 5: and put all the cousins and put mayonnaise in our

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Speaker 5: hair on the on the laid on the kitchen sink,

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Speaker 5: put our head in the sink, and then filled our

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Speaker 5: hair with mayonnaise. You had to walk around smell on

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Speaker 5: like a sandwich forever to getition your hair.

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Speaker 4: I mean, all all of our cousins and boys and girls.

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Speaker 4: It wasn't just the girl. The girls like the boys

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Speaker 4: and girl.

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Speaker 5: We all got lined up step and Monica Kevin Kevin

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Speaker 5: we all just line up.

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Speaker 6: We see that in Rainbow. That is so beautiful, that's dope,

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Speaker 6: it's funny.

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Speaker 5: So so yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like, we weren't

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Speaker 5: sheltered to be up in some crystal palace somewhere, although.

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Speaker 4: We lived, you know, in a hotel, and I'm not

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Speaker 4: to work in.

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Speaker 5: A rolls at the school at a rolls verse every

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Speaker 5: day with a driver by the name of Bartha.

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Speaker 8: But that's.

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Speaker 1: As you do.

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Speaker 5: Wait a minute, okay, so yeah, like, okay, so these

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Speaker 5: things also did happen.

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Speaker 4: I'm not saying they didn't, but.

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Speaker 6: Wow, that's amazing.

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Speaker 9: Christmas in a ritz.

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Speaker 4: But then we were in Detroit in the summer.

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Speaker 1: So they did you.

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Speaker 2: I know that singing at least when when I first

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Speaker 2: met you in the early arts, singing was always a

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Speaker 2: big passion of yours. With a household like yours, in

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Speaker 2: an environment like you grew up in, how easy was

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Speaker 2: it for you to express the desire to want to

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Speaker 2: do something in the arts or not be shy about.

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Speaker 5: It, Like Harry, My mother supported us in finding our

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Speaker 5: version of expression in whatever that looked like.

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Speaker 1: But you know, are you the only singing ross?

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Speaker 5: No, Roonda is a singer.

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Speaker 4: Evan's a singer. I'm the last.

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Speaker 1: I forgot your brother, Evan Ross.

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Speaker 4: That's okay, I'm the last to the party.

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Speaker 5: And it's so funny because I remember, I can't remember

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Speaker 5: how many years ago it was, but my mom was

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Speaker 5: in Vegas and on stage and she was like, you know,

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Speaker 5: my children sing.

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Speaker 4: Blah blah blah whatever, and I want to bring someone

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Speaker 4: up to sing with me.

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Speaker 5: And I'm like standing there, like, go ahead, Evan, go ahead,

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Speaker 5: you know whatever, and she said.

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Speaker 4: My name, and I was like, with what's happening right now?

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Speaker 4: I was like, this is not my thing. I'm the

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Speaker 4: funny one. What are we doing? What's happening?

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Speaker 5: And she made me sing on stage and it was

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Speaker 5: so hilarious because if you watch the video, you see.

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Speaker 4: My mom turn into my mom and thinks, oh no.

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Speaker 5: Did I just put Tracy put my baby in a

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Speaker 5: position that she didn't want to be in inadvertently, like

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Speaker 5: did I make her put her, you know, too exposed

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Speaker 5: on something that makes her shy?

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Speaker 4: And she sort of she got this tone in her

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Speaker 4: voice that was such.

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Speaker 5: My mom's tone of okay, everybody be quiet because this

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Speaker 5: is important, like we need we need to support this moment?

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Speaker 4: Be quiet?

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Speaker 2: Are you speaking of the infamous when she puts people

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Speaker 2: on the spot to sing reach out in touch?

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Speaker 5: No, she put me on stage and had me sing

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Speaker 5: sing like Billie Holiday. Oh, Like I was sing that

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Speaker 5: around the house and she was like, go ahead, did you?

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Speaker 5: Because every time I mean, I sang in high school

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Speaker 5: and whatever, every time I sang.

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Speaker 4: When I was twenty two, my mom said to me,

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Speaker 4: all right, Tracy, it's time. And I was like, it's

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Speaker 4: time for what? She's like, it's time for you to

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Speaker 4: record an album?

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Speaker 5: And I was like, hell, no, no, no, no, no no.

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Speaker 4: No no no, I'm gonna go the other way.

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Speaker 5: Nope, We're gonna make people laugh and we're just gonna

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Speaker 5: keep them at arm's length and that'll be good.

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Speaker 1: But why, Okay, in hindsight, why do you think that

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Speaker 1: was your decision?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 4: For a lot of reasons.

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Speaker 5: I think unconsciously, I the idea of being.

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Speaker 4: Compared to my mom was just too much to think of.

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Speaker 5: I had also seen children of be obliterated in the press,

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Speaker 5: just shredded, And you think back to that time and

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Speaker 5: being the child of or any of those things.

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Speaker 4: That's not that was not cool.

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Speaker 5: Then that was not something that was also the time

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Speaker 5: when you didn't move from TV to movies, when you

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00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 5: didn't move from being a host to an actor, Like

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Speaker 5: everything was very pigeonholed, and there certainly wasn't this spirit

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Speaker 5: of oh, you're Dona Ross as child. Maybe you want

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Speaker 5: to say, well, no, not at all. And I look

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Speaker 5: like my mom, And the truth is I sound kind

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Speaker 5: of like her. So you know, there was no you

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Speaker 5: put you as soon as you put a sparkly dress

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Speaker 5: on me. I mean, I've seen it now, I've won

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Speaker 5: a Golden Globe. I've been doing working in the I'm

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Speaker 5: forty eight years old. I'm not a child anymore, and

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Speaker 5: I still cannot do anything without my mom's name.

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Speaker 4: Like maybe my mom is just like it's she's larger,

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Speaker 4: she's an.

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Speaker 1: Interesting let me but let me interject.

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Speaker 2: I definitely now feel as though, you know, to Dinah Ross,

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Speaker 2: it's like, yo, Tracy Ellis is your daughter, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you've done You've definitely done something that is I don't

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Speaker 2: know if any person, maybe Janet Overcoming who her her

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Speaker 2: brothers were to be in her own right, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like you made your own name though, Yeah, yeah, you're.

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Speaker 2: When history books are written like you know, you have

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Speaker 2: your own and not even to compare like that, you know,

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Speaker 2: like we can.

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Speaker 5: All well that was part of what I came to,

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Speaker 5: I mean and understood it's like and an adult mind

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Speaker 5: can look at it that way, but a kid cannot.

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Speaker 4: And so now I.

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Speaker 6: Know, like I'm not my mom right.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm not trying to be here, I'm not like never,

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Speaker 4: that's not what's happening. But as a kid, you think you.

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Speaker 3: Know and you have something that's really super special. I

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00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 3: was going to ask you because your production company is

365
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 3: named Joy Mills, but I'm assuming that you're aware that

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Speaker 3: you have that superpower and that's why you named it that.

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Speaker 3: Are you aware that like Tracy Ella's Ross is a

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Speaker 3: joy bringer.

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Speaker 4: That like makes my heart very very full.

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Speaker 6: I'm just trying to tell you.

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Speaker 4: My I was born Tracy Joy Silverstein. That's my name,

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Speaker 4: so right.

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Speaker 6: Now, so because I'm like, well what about mister Ellen.

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Speaker 5: Okay, okay, go ahead, Okay, So this is and that

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Speaker 5: was the third point okay about my dad.

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Speaker 4: So when I joined so like many kids, uh so.

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Speaker 5: Then I was Tracy Joy Ross Silberstein. All through growing up,

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00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,879
Speaker 5: t j R S were my initials all through growing up.

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Speaker 5: But then, like so many people, you dropped this name.

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00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 5: That name is too long. I was Tracy Joy Ross.

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00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,600
Speaker 5: You know what I mean, drop these names too many names.

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00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 5: So I became Tracy Joy Ross. And then when I

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Speaker 5: joined SAG there was another Tracy Ross.

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Speaker 4: In the Union. Remember Tracy Ross. She was.

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Speaker 5: Yes.

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Speaker 8: I thought, yeah, that very god she grew up.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't know you were my age.

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Speaker 6: I thought like, you know, we don't all look alike.

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Speaker 6: They looked nothing alive.

390
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Speaker 2: I heard the name Tracy Ellis. I remember watching that

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Speaker 2: Tracy Ross on Star Search.

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Speaker 6: He was a hero.

393
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,920
Speaker 2: And then she thought like, oh, that's Diana Ross's daughter.

394
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Speaker 2: That's the one she talked about.

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Speaker 5: When I joined the Union, there was another Tracy Ross.

396
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Speaker 5: So they were like, uh, do you want to be

397
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Speaker 5: Tracy Joy Ross in the Union? And I was like yes,

398
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 5: But everybody like I look like my mom, and people

399
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 5: know I'm my mom's child and I'm so much a

400
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 5: product of both of my parents, Like.

401
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 4: I am my dad's child and I'm my mom's child.

402
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,479
Speaker 4: And I wanted him to have a steak.

403
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,120
Speaker 5: You know, it's so crazy because I talk so much

404
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 5: about women and women of color, and particularly black and

405
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 5: brown women that we historically have not had a steak

406
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Speaker 5: in what we make, and even with our children, we

407
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 5: give up our name, and so there's often this you

408
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 5: can't I even follow our bloodline because of that. But

409
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 5: we have been at the center of economic, cultural, political

410
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 5: revolutions in this country, and we are often doing the work,

411
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 5: but not centered in the prize from that work. And

412
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 5: strangely enough, I was worried about my dad having a

413
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 5: piece of what he made, and so I put Ellis

414
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 5: in my name and I became Tracy Ellis Ross at

415
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,439
Speaker 5: the beginning of my career, and my first you know,

416
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,959
Speaker 5: SAG card was Tracy Ellis Ross. And now you know,

417
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 5: my name goes up there and people go and Bob

418
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Speaker 5: Elis's kid.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what was the first major creative thing that you

420
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 2: at least for you, What was the first major creative

421
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 2: thing that you did as far as doing television or

422
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 2: commercials or well, the.

423
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Speaker 5: First big thing I did was the gap ad with

424
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 5: my mom. Yeah, and I remember it was on billboards

425
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Speaker 5: and it was like a big.

426
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Speaker 4: Wall in airport.

427
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 5: I walked through and I was just like, oh my god,

428
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 5: I made fifteen hundred dollars and I thought I had made.

429
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm rich. I don't my mother.

430
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 6: I'm rich.

431
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 4: I was like, that was so amazing. I could pay

432
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 4: my own doctor's fees. I can just I can make

433
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 4: my own food.

434
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 1: Was a crowd.

435
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 4: I was so much money. I was like, I was like,

436
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 4: I will never work again.

437
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 5: I actually think it was it was seven hundred and

438
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 5: fifty dollars and then I think I made fifteen hundred

439
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 5: on the first show I did. But then the next

440
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 5: thing was I did an Infinity commercial. So I was

441
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 5: modeling with Wilhelmine Agency and I went in for.

442
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 4: A modeling like commercial job and go see.

443
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Speaker 5: And at the place where they were doing it, they

444
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 5: were like, the people that are doing me. It was

445
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 5: a secret deodorant ad I went in for and there

446
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 5: was a sign in sheet next to it for Infinity

447
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 5: car commercial and whoever ran the commercial audition place was like,

448
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 5: you should go in and try for the Infinity commercial.

449
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, yes, of course I'll drive.

450
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 5: So I went in and that was the job that

451
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 5: taft heart lead me into SAG, which is the job

452
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 5: that will pay the money to get you into SAG.

453
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 10: And yeah, I just love the idea that Tracy Els

454
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 10: had to Taft Hartley. I mean, I've done that and

455
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 10: it just just makes me laugh. That's okay, keep continuing, please,

456
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 10: But also also, why are there not people with multiple

457
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 10: names in SAG? Couldn't there be multiple Tracy?

458
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: Really?

459
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 6: But Nessa Williams Remember Vanessa william.

460
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: L Williams Vanessa L Williams. Yeah, well shit, okay, cool, Yeah,

461
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: I learned something again.

462
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 4: So I got taft heart lead in.

463
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 5: I did that commercial and then I don't know.

464
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 4: I mean, it has not been a fast and easy

465
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 4: road for me.

466
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 5: I remember there was a movie called Mixing Nia that

467
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 5: Karen Parsons from Fresh Press. She ended up getting that movie,

468
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 5: and I've never been more devastated in my life.

469
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 1: Really.

470
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 7: I was like, I mean, I was sure a meror

471
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 7: that this was going to launch me into.

472
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 8: The stratosphere of the Roscar.

473
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 7: I was going to the Academy Awards with my seven

474
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 7: hundred and fifty dollars from my gap aad. I was

475
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 7: going to march my way into Hollywood and be received

476
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 7: with open arms for a career that would last a lifetime.

477
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 5: Didn't happen.

478
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: What is that process like? Like your version of the

479
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 2: Hollywood Shuffle? As far as callbacks near missus, what did

480
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: you audition for that you didn't get?

481
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 6: Oh my god, I don't even remember.

482
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 5: I had a three ring binder, like one of those

483
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 5: Whopper three ringfinders of like every audition I had auditioned for.

484
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 6: I didn't care.

485
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: You keep all the receipts of everything.

486
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 5: I didn't get nothing, really well, because according to us,

487
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 5: it's like Daddy's Girls.

488
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 6: I had no in right, Like, I'm trying to think no, no, no, no.

489
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 5: There from from the time that I did I did

490
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 5: Far Harbor, that first movie I did with Jennifer Connelly

491
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 5: and Marsha k Harden. Okay, so I did that, and

492
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 5: then I did the show and before that, I did

493
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 5: the show The Dish on Lifetime.

494
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 4: That was because I'm a TV girl. I live in

495
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 4: your TV and I'm a TV girl, like like it

496
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 4: was like.

497
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 5: A magazine show about TV shows.

498
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 6: What nothing? He ain't say nothing, he says, she.

499
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: Said, first, I'm like.

500
00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 6: I started watching Lifetime.

501
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, you know.

502
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 5: And and then I got an agent and auditioned and

503
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 5: auditioned and auditioned and auditioned and auditioned and auditioned and

504
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 5: auditioned and auditioned, and I auditioned some more and I

505
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 5: didn't get many callbacks, and then they dropped me. And

506
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 5: this is what they said.

507
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 4: It stuck with me for a really long time.

508
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 5: Listen, Tracy, We're gonna let you go because you come

509
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 5: with all these bells and whistles, but then you get

510
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 5: in the room and you just don't pop?

511
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 3: Would you face bitch?

512
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 4: I could, but you know what, it was a turning

513
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 4: point for crazy.

514
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 5: I could not get out of there without those you know,

515
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 5: those tears they sit.

516
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 4: There because you're so ha you know those office chairs

517
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 4: with the wheels of the the wheels on the bottom

518
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 4: of them.

519
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 5: I felt like my heart had come out and it

520
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 5: was like stuck underneath the wheel and she kept moving

521
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 5: the chair and it was just getting all tangled in

522
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 5: there with my heart and then there was blood and

523
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 5: stuff and then the tears, and I couldn't get out

524
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 5: fast enough. But I made a decision at that point.

525
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 5: I remember calling my sister.

526
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 11: I called I was like, I don't I don't wop I.

527
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 5: Know no popper.

528
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 6: Stand up.

529
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: At any point, did you ever consider dropping the ross

530
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: from your name? It was too late the thought that like, okay,

531
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: maybe they're holding that against me, like my lineage and well, you.

532
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 4: Know I used to say that.

533
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 7: People were like, well, doesn't being done roszda open doors

534
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 7: for you?

535
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 5: And I was like, no, what it does is and

536
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 5: unlocks the door. And then people sit on the other

537
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 5: side like, going, how's she going.

538
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: To walk in?

539
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: Oh?

540
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 4: They're like, okay, show us what. But I don't think

541
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 4: that had anything to do with it. I think I sucked.

542
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 5: I think I didn't know how to bring the person

543
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 5: that I was inside myself and in the privacy of

544
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 5: my home out into the world. And I needed that

545
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 5: hit in order to ask myself, did I have the

546
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 5: courage to do what it took to bring.

547
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 4: That person out? Or did I just.

548
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 5: Want to go back into my hole and sort of

549
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: live privately as I chose?

550
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 8: You know.

551
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: That was Tracy Ellis Ross.

552
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: And next up is Shirley Jones at The Jones Girls

553
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 2: and this clip she speaks about the power of Tracy's mom,

554
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: Diana Ross, and the sexism that went into see a

555
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 2: strong black woman who was a perfectionist and the early

556
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. Shirley also tells how Diana made a way

557
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: for her as an artist outside of an accomplished background singer.

558
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: Shirley also speaks about a powerful anthem for women nineteen

559
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: seventy nine, so You're Gonna make Me love somebody.

560
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: Else sampled by Jay Z, as well as being covered

561
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: by Escape in the nineteen nineties. There's some great history here,

562
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: Shirley Jones from twenty twenty one.

563
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: What was it like to finally land that job?

564
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 8: It was amazing. We actually, we were perfectly happy. We

565
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 8: had just moved to Detroit to LA with McKinley Jackson.

566
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 8: He was managing us at the time, and we were

567
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 8: perfectly happy doing background sessions because because we were doing

568
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 8: like three and four day it was either us or

569
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 8: the waters that people wanted to do their water back then,

570
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, those are my buddies. Yeah, it was either

571
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 8: us or them. That's who we were, those premier groups

572
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 8: for background singing back then. And McKinley said, well, you know,

573
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 8: Diana's auditioning for some singers and she's been turning everybody down,

574
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 8: and you know, and I and he said, you guys

575
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 8: want to try We like Diana. Yeah, I mean, you know,

576
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 8: we're from Detroit. Hey, let's give it a shot. And

577
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 8: so we went up there actually thinking we were singing

578
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 8: for gil Aski, her music director and her road manager

579
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 8: Don Peak up lower canyon somewhere and we went up

580
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 8: there and McKinley started playing. We had rehearsed ain't no

581
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 8: mountain high enough and reach out and touch somebody's hand

582
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 8: for our audition, and right in the middle of singing,

583
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 8: who comes down the hall but Diana Ross and yeah,

584
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 8: And the only words out of her mouth was, you

585
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 8: guys are terrific. Can you get passports? We're going to London?

586
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 8: And we, of course, you know, we were like, yeah,

587
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 8: we can go to London, but we had to work

588
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 8: out some things on our contract because of our background singing,

589
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 8: which she did allow. We traveled seven months of the

590
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 8: year with her, and then when she was on hiatus,

591
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 8: she did allow us to keep our background singing. Career.

592
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: For other artists, I failed you, she ailed you and retainer,

593
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: but you were allowed to We were.

594
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 8: Allowed to sing, right, but we were still getting you know,

595
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 8: we were getting half of our paycheck when she was

596
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 8: when she wasn't working, but she still allowed us to

597
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 8: do our singing, our background singing. And over the years

598
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 8: I have defended and set said so many people have said,

599
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 8: what was she like? I hear, you know, she's this,

600
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 8: she's that, and the other. I said, let me just

601
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 8: tell you one thing. She was the hottest entertainer in

602
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 8: the world back in the seventies. Absolutely nobody was bigger

603
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 8: than Diana Ross except maybe Frank Sinatra. And she was

604
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 8: a perfectionist. She was a female, and she was demanding.

605
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 8: She demanded that her from her band to her singers

606
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 8: to be as into the show and rehearse and be

607
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 8: on top of your gig as she was. And because

608
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 8: that was drilled in us, and that's what we did. Anyway.

609
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 8: She was absolutely one of the best people to work for,

610
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 8: and she was so concerned for us because up until

611
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 8: we went to London with her, the only places we

612
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 8: had been was Detroit surrounding areas and then California. And

613
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 8: she loved and respected our sounds so much that after

614
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 8: the European tour is when she came to us, she

615
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 8: was getting ready to do her yearly twice a year

616
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 8: residency at Caesar's Palace, and she came to us and said,

617
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 8: you know, you girls are too good to be singing

618
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 8: background behind me or anybody else whatever, So you know,

619
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 8: I changed clothes at least five times in my show.

620
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 8: I want you to get a song together and i

621
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 8: want you to sing it. I'm gonna bring you out

622
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 8: the Jones sisters and I'm gonna introduce you to the world.

623
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 8: And that's actually she did that. We chose if I

624
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 8: Ever Lose This Heaven from Quincy Jones' album that was

625
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 8: hot back then, and uh, that's how we got with

626
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 8: gamb One Huff at the theater, yeah, the subar s Yeah,

627
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 8: from the Schubert Theater, and she called us and Cynthia

628
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 8: Biggs and Dexter Wanzelle they were in the audience and

629
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 8: they said all they could think about and look at

630
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 8: during the whole show was us. They kept saying, you

631
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 8: hear those girls, you hear her background singers, they're tearing

632
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 8: it up and Gambling Huff came backstage and they said,

633
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 8: you guys are terrific. Are you signed with anybody? And

634
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 8: we're like no, And we're like, oh my god, gamb

635
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 8: when I'm asking us if we're signed with anybody? And

636
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 8: so we went back to LA and within a month

637
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 8: we had our attorneys did we worked out the deal,

638
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 8: and within two months we were flown to Philadelphia to

639
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 8: work on that first Jones Girls album.

640
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: Wow, Yes, that's amazing, that's amazing.

641
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I always wanted to know was this

642
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: the tour where she would it would start with the

643
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: video thing with the guys carrying her open.

644
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 8: No, No, this was before then, okay, because.

645
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: I always wanted to know how she did that illusion. No, Okay,

646
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: I was a kid when I see it, like a

647
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: long time ago.

648
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 8: But yeah, wow.

649
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 3: Can you also talk about like the gig with her

650
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: and how it was different than other background kids as

651
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: far as like she said she changed her clothes five times,

652
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: did you guys get to change your clothes? Did you

653
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: have the same outfit you had to wear every night

654
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: or what? Because it was Diana Ross, y'all had like

655
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: a nice rotation, and what did.

656
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 6: She require before every show?

657
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 3: As far as we hur soul and stuff like that,

658
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: it's the comparison to everybody else you work for.

659
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 8: With her being a perfectionist. We rehearsed a lot before

660
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 8: we would go out on tour with her. I mean

661
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 8: we rehearsed a lot. And yes she did curse. She

662
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 8: would come in there and if you if the bad

663
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 8: and she never had to curse with us because we

664
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 8: were gonna be on top of our game. But if

665
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 8: she would, she would curse them out. And I and

666
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 8: you know, and I often tell people, I said, now,

667
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 8: if she were a man like Frank Sinatra coming out

668
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 8: cursing because somebody wasn't doing their absolute best and she

669
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 8: felt that they should be, he'd be applauded. He would

670
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 8: be applauded and said, oh, he's just such a strong individual.

671
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 8: He's he'd make sure that, you know. But because she's

672
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 8: a woman, and she was that demanding at that time,

673
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 8: you know, women weren't supposed to, you know, come if

674
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 8: you done, weren't doing your job. You were supposed to

675
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 8: be demure and say well would you please? You know,

676
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 8: she would come in there cursing like us, saying oh, yeah.

677
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 6: Beyond it makes me think of Beyonce is allowed to

678
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 6: be today?

679
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 8: Yeah exactly, So I gets I give I give her

680
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 8: kudos because she was demanding, yes she was, but she

681
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 8: was also she would she would also make sure that

682
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 8: she was doing the you know, as far as rehearsing too,

683
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 8: she was always always immaculate, impeccable. Two people that I

684
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 8: learned the most from as far as entertaining myself. I

685
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 8: always say, is Diana Ross and Eddie Lebert from the

686
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 8: o Jays because they are show people. Absolutely show people

687
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 8: can't wait to hear.

688
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: What can Yeah, I want I want to know for you?

689
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: Or is it a thing where the grass is greener

690
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: On the other side, do you prefer studio sessions or

691
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: do you prefer uh traveling? This I'm talking in strictly

692
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: in terms of your days as a background singer.

693
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 8: As a background singer, I prefer being in the studio. Yeah,

694
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 8: I prefer being in the studio because I'm more of

695
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 8: a like Well, when we were traveling doing background for her,

696
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 8: that was exciting because that was the first time we

697
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,479
Speaker 8: you know, we're traveling doing background and making money. But now,

698
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 8: I mean I prefer doing studio work versus traveling singing

699
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 8: background for someone.

700
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 2: Isn't it a bigger pressure though in the studio because

701
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: I'm almost certain that there's you know, there's really not

702
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: enough time for you to you borderline, have to catch

703
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: it and perfect it in you know, in a short

704
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: amount of time, I would assume correct, Yes.

705
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 8: Yeah, in real time. That's one of the reasons why

706
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 8: but so many people wanted us to do background because

707
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 8: they knew that we were going to rehearse so much

708
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 8: so that when we got in the studio, you know,

709
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 8: time is money, we would knock that stuff out just

710
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 8: like that. That's why some some sometimes we would have

711
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 8: two and three sessions a day because we were able to.

712
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 8: We would rehearse and practice our parts for whoever, and

713
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 8: to make sure that when we went in the studio

714
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 8: bam bam bam, we could do it. And you know,

715
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 8: back in the day, you're talking about eight tracks, and

716
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 8: you're talking about not being able to sing one little

717
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 8: part and then they fly it through the song. You

718
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 8: had to sing that exact same way four and five,

719
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 8: you know, three to double it and and uh so.

720
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 8: And I think that's one of the reasons why the

721
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 8: artists today today don't as far as live performances. They

722
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 8: cannot do it like us that were trained to have

723
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 8: to sing a song all the way through three and

724
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 8: four different times to stack that harmony and sound the

725
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 8: exact same way each time.

726
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: Right, I see, I agree. I agree with you.

727
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: Curious who were your peers or I don't want to

728
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: say competitors, but who were the peers who if you

729
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 3: can't get the Jones sisters.

730
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 6: You know, we should call so and so the waters.

731
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 8: That was it. It was ya and it was us

732
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 8: in California for the longest. Yeah, that was it.

733
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 6: I'm sorry.

734
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 8: Yep.

735
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what I know you mentioned working under Holadozah

736
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: Holland when you came to Los Angeles.

737
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: What year was that.

738
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 8: We went to Los Angeles in nineteen seventy five? Yeah,

739
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 8: about seventy five seventy six, that's when Motown moved and

740
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 8: then you know they had given Hollandojah Holland the Invictus

741
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 8: and the music Merchant labels, right, and I think Motown

742
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 8: moved what in seventy three seventy four, and then those

743
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 8: like McKinley and Hollandojah Holland moved out I think seventy five.

744
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: So it was just basically everyone in Detroit was migrating

745
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: to Los Angeles and we might as well follow suit

746
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: and follow them as well.

747
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 8: Follow them exactly exactly.

748
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: I see.

749
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: Could you tell me, like, what other notable acts were

750
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 2: you singing background for that we might not be aware of.

751
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 8: Helen Ready share songs? Yeah, Helen Ready. Oh my god,

752
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 8: somebody just posted it the other day. I forgot that

753
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 8: song that we did for her, we did the entire

754
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 8: album because she just passed I think recently, and someone

755
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 8: posted it.

756
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: And share I share like half read or take Me Home.

757
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 8: Or I forgot what song. But the song that we

758
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 8: did do for share, I don't think it made the album, okay,

759
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 8: but we did a session. We did a session because

760
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 8: we did two songs with her and they never met.

761
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 8: I don't think they made the album. Now, somebody's gonna

762
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 8: probably prove me wrong and post it.

763
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 2: You know, I know that you've done background on some

764
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: notable affilly international songs as well.

765
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: So am I to assume.

766
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: That you're you're basically all the female voices that I

767
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 2: hear on like You'll never find another love like Mine

768
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: and those those songs as well, like with Lou Rawl's.

769
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 8: And now we did do Lou Rawl's album. There was

770
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 8: a group of girls in Philadelphia, Okay, I can't think

771
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 8: of their names that were doing and a lot of

772
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 8: background singing for Gambling them because once we became the

773
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 8: Jones girls, you know, we didn't do as much background

774
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 8: singing for other people once we got with Gambling Huff

775
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 8: in seventy nine, just select people, you know, when we

776
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 8: had the time because you know, with you're going to

777
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 8: make me love somebody else coming out the box being

778
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 8: so big, we immediate get Gamble, immediately sent us to

779
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 8: Ohio with Charlie Atkins, who put the OJS and Temptations

780
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 8: with him, and we were we were rehearsing to go

781
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 8: out on tour with the OJS. Oh yes, oh man.

782
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 2: He.

783
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 5: Was.

784
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 8: He was. And I have two left feet, so he

785
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 8: was always on me. He was constantly on me because

786
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 8: I'm not. I was the only one that couldn't dance.

787
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 8: Brendan Valleie could dance, you know, and me, I'd always

788
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 8: tried to, Well, I'm saying and lead anyway. Can I

789
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 8: just stand on? No, you cannot. You're gonna do those

790
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 8: You're doing them too, girl. So oh he was a testent.

791
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 8: You just just eat a banana. Eat a banana before

792
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 8: you come in here to rehearsal for that potassium so

793
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 8: you could move those feet. He was a drill master.

794
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: No, I heard every every act that's ever worked with him.

795
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 2: Oh wait, what what period were you guys?

796
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 8: Uh?

797
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: With Aretha Franklin.

798
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 8: We did the Almighty Fire album with her.

799
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 2: Oh God, yes, only only say this.

800
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: Because the kind of the kind of household I grew

801
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: up in. I would. I grew up with.

802
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: Three binge shoppers when it came to records, so like

803
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: every week, stacks and stacks and stacks of forty five

804
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: stacks and stacks and stacks of thirty three's would.

805
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: Come in the house.

806
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 2: The thing is is that I would get the records

807
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: that my parents didn't want. So, you know, as far

808
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: as my Aretha collection, like there there was a period

809
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 2: like Almighty Fire, the U record all the way up

810
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 2: to La Diva, like basically the post Sparkle records that

811
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: really weren't hitting the same right I inherited, So I

812
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 2: know all those like Sweet Passion, like all those Aretha

813
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 2: records that weren't quite you know up there with the

814
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: legacy albums.

815
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: What was it like?

816
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: Oh god, and she was wearing that space suit too, yep,

817
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: the Green Space I remember that that period.

818
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: What was it like?

819
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: And how intimidating is it you know working with her?

820
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: Or was she just you know, another Detroit person that

821
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: you could connect with.

822
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 8: Well, we had sang as children at her father's church

823
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 8: with my mother one Sunday when we were there. I

824
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 8: believe it was one of her father's anniversary, and we

825
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 8: knew that she was going to be there. At that time,

826
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 8: she was she was a superstar. She had respect out,

827
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 8: you know, she was like and they said she was

828
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 8: going to be at the church. And after we performed,

829
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 8: she came up to my mother and said, boy, those

830
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 8: are some singing girls you got there. And then fast

831
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 8: forward like fifteen years later, we were doing Almighty Fire.

832
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 8: And what a lot of people don't know is that

833
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 8: when that Sparkle movie was, you know, they were looking

834
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 8: for the actor, the actors and actresses for that movie.

835
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 8: Aretha Franklin and Kenny Gamble wanted us to play the sisters.

836
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 8: Aretha put pitched in for She wanted us to do

837
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 8: it because because of our voices and we had just

838
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 8: sang on her album, and Kenny felt that that would

839
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 8: be a great We were the you know, the Jones girls.

840
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 8: He felt that we were just coming out that they

841
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 8: sent us to New York and a limo and uh

842
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 8: it was uh. I think they both were very and

843
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 8: I know we were disappointed, Uh, especially when uh and

844
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 8: you know Aretha she was activist, but back then, especially

845
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 8: when those girls, they you know, was very light, bright

846
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 8: girls that got the part her thing was to them

847
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 8: was you know this, this is ridiculous. Those girls can

848
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 8: you know they they're they're singers and they could be

849
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 8: taught to be actresses too, and she she was quite

850
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 8: upset about that.

851
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 1: So there was almost a chance that you could have yeah, sparkle.

852
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 6: Yes sing the songs.

853
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 8: Yeah.

854
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: Was there was there ever a background gig that you

855
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: had that was like a little too intimidating or that

856
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: you you know, it was just all right to you.

857
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 8: Now, we we no matter who the artist was, and

858
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 8: there were a lot of artists that you know, hadn't

859
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 8: even made it yet. But you know, if we liked

860
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 8: the song, and you know, they they were willing to pay,

861
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 8: because pay the money, you know, we were we would

862
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 8: do it and we would give our best. And the

863
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 8: thing that a lot of people don't know is that

864
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 8: for another reason why so many people liked us is

865
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 8: because we created a lot of those backgrounds. They knew

866
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 8: that if they gave us the song, we were going

867
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 8: to create the background parts. Yeah, I mean arrangement, some

868
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 8: some on some for a lot. Now some did come with,

869
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 8: you know, specific backgrounds, but our reputation became such that

870
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 8: they'd be like Okay, well, hey, here's the song. What

871
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 8: do you guys think you know, no Norman Connors, Lou Rawls.

872
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: Uh.

873
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 8: Else that we they've let us do, just you know,

874
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 8: control the background. God, it's so many people.

875
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 3: Just songs. But you were just like artists that were like,

876
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 3: it don't matter what song I'm doing. Let the Jones girls.

877
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 8: Come in here and do and do our thing. Now.

878
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 8: Brenda was alive because her memory is so much better

879
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 8: than mine. She she she can remember every single artist

880
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 8: we did background on and everything. But but me, it

881
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 8: gets a little fuzzy sometime because when people post stuff

882
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 8: now and I'll be like, oh, yeah, I remember that

883
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 8: we did do that song, you know.

884
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: So so with with signing to Philly International, I'll say

885
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: that probably in my opinion, because you know, we my

886
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: dad purchased all the records and played it at the

887
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: house all the time, I will say that you guys

888
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 2: were probably given them more contemporary, up to date town

889
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 2: than a lot of the acts that were on Philly

890
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: International back then. Like it was almost a thing where

891
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 2: you know, you knew instantly within the first two seconds

892
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 2: that you were listening to a Filly International song based

893
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: on like the trademark of the strings and all the

894
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 2: mixing on the record or whatever, but like, You're gonna

895
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: make me love somebody else sounded nothing like what Philadelphia,

896
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: especially what was happening in nineteen seventy nine, if anything, right, Yeah,

897
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: because it.

898
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 6: Was like a woman telling me you better get your

899
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 6: shit together.

900
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 8: Right exactly.

901
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what I mean, I would assume that it's

902
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 2: still the same group of people, like it's still dexter

903
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 2: Anzel and Gambling Huff and all those Well, I know

904
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: McKinley Jackson also worked on the record as well, But right, like,

905
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: what was the discussion basically on how to present you

906
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 2: guys in your sound.

907
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 8: That's one of the things that I think Gamble and

908
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 8: Hope they were purposely trying to take us away just

909
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 8: a little bit for from the the strings and horns

910
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 8: of like say, like of what they did with three

911
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 8: Degrees three Degrees, and wanted they wanted us to be

912
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 8: more funky, more soulful, more R and B And if

913
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 8: you noticed the very first Jones Girls album, that's exactly

914
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 8: I mean. I'm at your Mercies on there, which is

915
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 8: a you know, heart wrenching ballad.

916
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 3: Uh.

917
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 8: Then of course there's You're Gonna make Me love somebody else? Yeah, exactly,

918
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,479
Speaker 8: So yeah, who Can I Run To? Us? Yep?

919
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: What were your feelings on?

920
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: Of course, not what your feelings on were you How

921
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: did it feel for Escape to sort of reintroduce that

922
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: song onto a holy generation?

923
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 8: Yeah? When I when I heard it, when I first

924
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 8: heard it, it was well nineteen ninety five, so by

925
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 8: that time it was sixteen years future from when we

926
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 8: did it, and so many I remember so many of

927
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 8: the producers when Gambled back in the day, you know,

928
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 8: you had a A side and a B side on records,

929
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 8: and who Can I Run To? Was on the B side.

930
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 8: So many people did not want Gamble to put that.

931
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 8: They said, put show love today, put anything on that

932
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 8: on the B side of You're Gonna make Me Love

933
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 8: somebody else? Besides who Can I Run To? Because that

934
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 8: is a that is a single of its own. But

935
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 8: of course that didn't happen. So n I mean we

936
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 8: you know, we were working and and the girls and

937
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 8: I had broken up by then, and when we heard

938
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 8: who Can I Run To? I was happy actually because

939
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 8: back then when their record came out, there were so

940
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 8: many DJs that were, you know, into new that we

941
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 8: had done it first, because people used to flip it

942
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 8: on the radio sometimes and play who Can I Run to?

943
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 8: So what they would do is like, yeah, I know

944
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 8: you guys love this one by Escape, but guess what

945
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,959
Speaker 8: Escape didn't do it first the Jones. Then they would

946
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 8: play our version too and have people call in which

947
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 8: version they like the best, and all of that. And

948
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 8: I happened to the girls on a radio show some

949
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 8: years back, and they said, we hope we did a

950
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 8: good job, but we just love you guys and love

951
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 8: you all sound. And I told them, I said, you

952
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 8: all did a great job because what you did was

953
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 8: you brought back a lot of attention to the Jones girls,

954
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,479
Speaker 8: so I was saying, I told them, I said, so, hey,

955
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 8: thank you, thank you all, because it brought back some attention.

956
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 8: Because I mean, up until you know, from sixteen years later,

957
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 8: you know, we had kind of died out, like we

958
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 8: weren't together anymore. We had done we would do some

959
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 8: things occasionally over in Europe, but it was it brought

960
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 8: back a lot of attention and put that Jones girl's

961
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 8: name back out there.

962
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 2: And last week's episode, we heard an excerpt from my

963
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 2: one on one with Kathleen Henna. A few years earlier,

964
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: we spoke to Sleeeder Kenny, and in this group, Carrie

965
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: and Korn speak about Kathleen's influence and the Riot Girl movement.

966
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: You also hear about being a part of a strong

967
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: community and the challenges of fame and success coming out

968
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 2: of that. At what point for the both of you,

969
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: are you realizing that you have a voice or that

970
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 2: music is something that you're interested in pursuing, not just

971
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 2: something that casually that just happens, you know, in your household.

972
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 12: I think for me, I I moved to Olympia to

973
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 12: go to college. I went to like, you know, the

974
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 12: Evergreen State College when all of the stuff was happening,

975
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 12: and I have to credit Bikini Kill and Brat Mobile

976
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 12: playing a show, and I was just I just got

977
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 12: to be like right up close, like right there when

978
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 12: they were doing their thing, and I was like, I

979
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 12: want to do that. I'm going to start a band,

980
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 12: and I in my head I started a band Like

981
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 12: that night. I was just like I'm in I'm doing

982
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 12: it too, okay, you know, because I saw them do it.

983
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 12: They were my age and they were they were just

984
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 12: starting out, and so it just like opened the door.

985
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 2: He explained to me the whole idea of what Rye

986
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 2: Girl represents, and is that a title that was invented

987
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: by the proprietors or again, was it some guy from

988
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 2: Spin magazine sort of searching for the next big thing

989
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 2: and then said, okay, this right girl with a bunch

990
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 2: of rs in it.

991
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 12: No, it was it was actually like a a genuine movement,

992
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 12: you know. It was the title was you know, started

993
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 12: by a young woman in DC who was like, we

994
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 12: need to start an actual movement for women in the

995
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 12: independent music scene that that highlights women's roles and supports

996
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 12: women and talks about safe spaces for women. And there

997
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 12: were meetings. You could go to a meeting you could

998
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 12: talk about all these things. You could talk about, you know,

999
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 12: being in a bad relationship, sexual assault, like all.

1000
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 13: Of the kind of like taboo stuff at.

1001
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 9: The time at that time.

1002
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 12: Yeah, at the time, there just wasn't another space for

1003
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 12: that stuff to come out and happen.

1004
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 8: So it was it was very real. It was very.

1005
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 13: Taboo at the time.

1006
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 12: And you know Kathleen Hannah was she was you know,

1007
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 12: very much like a cultural leader, right, she was like

1008
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 12: our poet because she was writing this stuff that she

1009
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 12: was incredible poet, incredible writer and performer, you know, and

1010
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 12: very confrontational. But she was saying all the stuff that

1011
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 12: we were all like so afraid to say ourselves.

1012
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: Okay, So the first time I met Kathleen Hanna, I

1013
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: didn't know I was mean, Like I didn't know anything

1014
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: about Rye girl whatever. Like the Roots are just doing

1015
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 2: a show somewhere up in Seattle. I forget the spot

1016
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 2: in Seattle that we were playing. I know it was

1017
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 2: across the sheet from the spot where they throw fish.

1018
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, the showbox.

1019
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were at the showbox. Yeah, I'll say that. Yeah,

1020
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: I met.

1021
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, the first three times I've met or

1022
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 2: seen Kathleen, she was like cursing someone out like it

1023
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: was always like.

1024
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah.

1025
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 2: And my manager of Rich was they those two were

1026
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,760
Speaker 2: like really good friends. So he's sort of my manager

1027
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: who passed away. Him and her really became good friends.

1028
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: And you know, he just liked, that makes all the sense.

1029
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you see it down here and you describe,

1030
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that makes ye.

1031
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: Oh that's how it really shit, Like my shit is

1032
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: all trickles down.

1033
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 2: Economics were Rich and him, Him and Kathleen were like

1034
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: talking whatever, Like I mean, but she was just I've

1035
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 2: never seen the person so just wild and unhinged and

1036
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: just told what the fuck she felt and all that.

1037
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 2: Like I was just like, yoh, this is unheard of whatever.

1038
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 2: So that that was like my introduction to her. She

1039
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: was cool and very nice to us, but like in

1040
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 2: a second, she will she'll bring the ruckus and I've

1041
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 2: just never seen that shit, so you know, and I

1042
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 2: don't really be like, oh intense or whatever, but that's

1043
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 2: what it was like for me meeting her. So could

1044
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: you tell me what the environment was, at least at

1045
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 2: the time in the Northwest that really prompted this movement

1046
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: to really find its legs.

1047
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, you know, the Northwest was was this

1048
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 12: hotbed of like independent music. So there was all of

1049
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 12: this like criticism of mainstream music that was you know,

1050
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 12: that wasn't genuine, It wasn't you know, real art and everything.

1051
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 12: And this music scene was about you know, like real

1052
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 12: people telling their stories and making music available to everyone,

1053
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 12: so you know, five dollars shows.

1054
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:26,439
Speaker 13: And all of that.

1055
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 12: But it was also this kind of like slam dancing,

1056
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 12: rather violent culture at every show, and so there was

1057
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 12: just not a lot of space for women to feel like,

1058
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 12: am I going to be safe going to this show?

1059
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 12: Am I going to feel like I you know, my

1060
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 12: voice is heard? And the roles for women were still

1061
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 12: like oh yeah, you know, my boyfriend's.

1062
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 13: In that band, and right, and.

1063
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 12: And just like when we're still yeah a foil. And

1064
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 12: so when you had a personality like Kathleen who was

1065
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 12: like protagonist, right, so she was like center stage at

1066
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 12: all times, it was like an arrow like shot through

1067
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 12: our hearts. It was like, I want to be like that.

1068
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 12: Like I'm I was a shy, awkward, kind of academic

1069
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 12: type kid. But I saw someone just like take control

1070
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 12: of the stage, be like I have a story to

1071
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 12: tell and everyone in this room is going to listen,

1072
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 12: And that just opened the door.

1073
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 14: It kind of took feminism and you know, even though

1074
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 14: they're definitely you know, very fair critiques of right girl,

1075
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 14: like just like other early iterations of feminism, it lacked intersectionality,

1076
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 14: and you know, it was it was largely white women,

1077
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 14: although there was tons of women of color there as well,

1078
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 14: but it definitely took feminism out of an academic context

1079
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 14: and gave it a very like punk, very colloquial vernacular.

1080
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 14: It was like here was you know, like a world

1081
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 14: of punk had just come out of like a hardcore phase,

1082
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 14: especially on the West Coast, which was super violent. So

1083
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 14: all of a sudden, it was like, what if we

1084
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 14: took this movement, these ideas that are largely like in

1085
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 14: you know, college textbooks, and just put it over three

1086
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 14: courts and screamed it?

1087
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 9: And that was very liberating.

1088
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 14: I think to think that if you had a message,

1089
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 14: it didn't necessarily need to be couched in a book,

1090
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 14: you know, that it could be couched in a scream

1091
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 14: or a yelp. And I think that just freed up

1092
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 14: a lot of people to express themselves. I mean the

1093
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 14: same way so much music just becomes like a source

1094
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 14: of liberation for people, where it's like I have something

1095
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 14: to say, and now I can say it over this

1096
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 14: song instead of you know, writing out this exactly.

1097
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 2: So what's the point where you two meet each other

1098
00:58:55,120 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 2: and sort of talk in terms of starting a group

1099
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: in and starting the beginning of Slater Kenney.

1100
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 9: That was yeah, I was ninety four.

1101
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 14: I was already living in Olympia to go to college

1102
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 14: as as well. Koran was I think you were in

1103
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 14: your senior year, and we were both in other bands.

1104
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 14: Koran was in a much more like prototypical or archetypal

1105
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 14: right girl band called Heavens to Betsy, and I was

1106
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 14: in a band called Excuse seventeen. You know that was

1107
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 14: that like day, those days, we were in that group.

1108
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 14: To correct the Kathleen, no, she was in neither she

1109
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 14: was in but other bands.

1110
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: I didn't know if.

1111
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 14: Everyone was in so many bands, okay, yeah, And so

1112
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 14: we just saw this kindred spirit in each other, like

1113
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 14: you know, Koran was the only her band was two people.

1114
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 9: Koran on guitar and a drummer.

1115
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 14: And then I was in a band with a similar

1116
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 14: setup to Slater Kenney what Slater Keny would be two

1117
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 14: guitars and drums, and we just we thought, I know,

1118
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,959
Speaker 14: I heard Korn sing and I was like, I would

1119
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 14: love to be writing songs with this person. And she

1120
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 14: heard me play guitar and had the same feeling, and

1121
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 14: so we started playing kind of as a side project,

1122
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 14: and then pretty quickly that became what we wanted to do.

1123
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 14: It was just a very innate chemistry.

1124
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 10: Why was there always no bass players, I'm just just

1125
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 10: because he didn't want them.

1126
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 8: It was.

1127
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 12: It was definitely like a thing in the northwest of like,

1128
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 12: you know, how can we be different and not not like,

1129
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 12: you know, sort of the archetype rock band.

1130
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 14: Yeah, and neither of us played I think it just

1131
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 14: was played bass and we just wanted to be this

1132
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 14: like kind of tight unit. I think there's sometimes when

1133
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 14: you're when something is perceived as a lack, it actually

1134
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 14: can be a strength through like how can we find

1135
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 14: a way into these songs without the traditional instrumentation, you know,

1136
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 14: it kind of forces you to write differently. We detuned

1137
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 14: to see sharp, so Korn was singing in this really

1138
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 14: high register and you know, trying to get low end

1139
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,919
Speaker 14: sound out of for a guitar. And yeah, I think

1140
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 14: we used it to our advantage. Although now in the

1141
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 14: past couple of years. You know, obviously we like bass.

1142
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 14: Early on though people always ask us like, do you

1143
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 14: guys not like bass? I'm like, no, ninety nine point

1144
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 14: nine percent of all music we listened to has bass.

1145
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: Okay, how long have you been playing guitar, Carrie?

1146
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 14: I started when I was fifteen, so it has been

1147
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 14: what is that thirty years?

1148
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: Ok?

1149
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 13: Yeah?

1150
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Corian, how long have you been playing guitar?

1151
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 13: It is it's like thirty years because I started when

1152
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 13: I was like eighteen, so.

1153
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 2: Okay, well resisting the temptation of making a spinal tap joke.

1154
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 2: And I know that Janet joined the band three albums later,

1155
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 2: but was it always the plan to sort of have

1156
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: various musicians because I noticed that what determines what your

1157
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 2: sound is probably also depends on the musicians that are

1158
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 2: playing with you as well. So first drummer Laura McFarlane,

1159
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 2: how do musicians come in the group and how do

1160
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: they leave? Like is it just a one and done

1161
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: thing or you guys are just taking this a little

1162
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 2: more serious than the other.

1163
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 14: Or no, I mean definitely. Just to say about Janet,

1164
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 14: and she was an integral part of the band. I

1165
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 14: mean I wrote about it in my book when she joined,

1166
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 14: you know, we.

1167
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 1: Were like, yeah, that's when you jelled.

1168
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, we were like this is this is great?

1169
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 14: I would I'm I am sure as people assess us,

1170
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 14: you know, ten fifteen years from now or you know,

1171
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 14: they're like, that will be the classic period of the band,

1172
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 14: So you know they were never throwaway.

1173
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: Being the rock and Hall of Fame, I get it.

1174
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 14: Yeah, she's a great drummer, so that Korn can talk

1175
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 14: about Laura because yeah, she had brought her own avant

1176
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 14: guard style for sure.

1177
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1178
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 12: I mean I think a lot of it is like

1179
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 12: a little bit happenstance on our part, Like you know,

1180
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 12: we went we did go to Australia thinking like, hey,

1181
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 12: let's play music, you know, and there was there was

1182
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 12: like this international underground music community for real, And we

1183
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 12: wrote her a letter, We wrote like the record label

1184
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 12: a letter, and she wrote back like yeah.

1185
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 13: Let's play music.

1186
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 12: And that's just how it happened, and you know, and

1187
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 12: then eventually it was like, well she did come over

1188
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 12: and we played music here, and then she was like

1189
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 12: I kind of need.

1190
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 13: To go back to Australia. We're like, yeah, oh.

1191
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 2: Okay, now that you're in the game of being on

1192
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 2: an indie label, can you just walk us through the

1193
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 2: process of how do you manage to survive and be

1194
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 2: creative at the same time, Like for those first few albums,

1195
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 2: did you still have to have day jobs or was

1196
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 2: it like, Okay, you know, we can sort of survive

1197
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: off of our club gigs and what units that we're selling.

1198
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 12: I mean, I think there's there was definitely some back

1199
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 12: and forth, you know, like there were still temp jobs.

1200
01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 13: I think even after dig Me Out.

1201
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 9: I think that we kind of put this.

1202
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 12: Like idea about being creative and being control of the

1203
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 12: creative part of things as something that was really important

1204
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 12: to us. So we were always willing to like do

1205
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 12: whatever other jobs needed to be done, I think, just

1206
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 12: to like make money or whatever.

1207
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 8: I mean, we weren't.

1208
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 12: We weren't not making money from touring, and we were

1209
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 12: always wanting to figure that out and make it better.

1210
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 12: We were always like ambitious about that. It just it

1211
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 12: took us a while to get there.

1212
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 2: But at what point are you absolutely full time? We're

1213
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 2: ban I can pay my bills, I can put cheese

1214
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 2: or my whopper and not break the bank like.

1215
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 14: Probably dig me Out, I would say, So that's ninety seven.

1216
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 9: I mean, let's also be clear. I was living in Olympia.

1217
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 14: I think my rent was three ninety five a month,

1218
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 14: so that doesn't take that much. You know, you can

1219
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 14: you can play a couple of shows even as a

1220
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 14: tiny band and make you know. So we were living

1221
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 14: in small towns and like you know, sharehouses and stuff.

1222
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 14: But dig me Out, I mean, one thing at the

1223
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 14: time on indie labels was thesefit profit shares, which you know,

1224
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 14: you just it was a split and people actually bought records.

1225
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 14: So even though these these records weren't going gold or platinum,

1226
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 14: you know, when dig Me out sells you know, seventy

1227
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 14: five thousand copies or one hundred thousand copies and you have,

1228
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 14: you know, getting fifty percent of profit share, like at

1229
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 14: the time when you're in your early twenties, that's that's

1230
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 14: definitely enough to live off of, even if you're splitting

1231
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 14: it three ways.

1232
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 2: So by the time that you guys are out, I

1233
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 2: also know that every major label was looking up and

1234
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 2: down the aisles for the next big thing or whatever

1235
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 2: I mean. So at no point, like you know, I

1236
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 2: know you guys started off on Chainsaw and then the

1237
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 2: lovely title Kill All rock Stars. First of all, with

1238
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 2: with those labels, is that are there actual are these

1239
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: actual labels or just like okay, well what are we

1240
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 2: going to call the label this time? Or like is

1241
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 2: that your label and you guys have a distribution system?

1242
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 2: Or is Kill All walk Stars like an actual label

1243
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: like sub Pop is, and you know.

1244
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 12: Yeah, no, Kill rock Stars is definitely an actual label.

1245
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 12: And and that point I think was pretty critical for

1246
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 12: us because after the first record came out on Chainsaw,

1247
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 12: which was another a label run by fellow musicians, but

1248
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 12: they were like still touring that it was Jody and

1249
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 12: Donna from Team Drash, so that was, you know, problematic.

1250
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 12: We did have a time when we were courted by

1251
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 12: major labels before dig Me Out, and we considered it.

1252
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 12: You know, we considered, we argued about it, We thought

1253
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 12: about it like crazy.

1254
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna ask you a question, okay, because I

1255
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 2: knew this was a parallel story with hip hop and

1256
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 2: with with this movement, how at what point are you

1257
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 2: able to really relax and really not live in fear

1258
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 2: of the idea of quote unquote selling out? You know,

1259
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: that shadow following you, like the perception of how we're

1260
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 2: because the thing is is that knowing what I know

1261
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 2: now and again because I worked backwards, I'm like, yo,

1262
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 2: like you know, and you can even tell them that,

1263
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 2: like with the videos that you're doing now and all

1264
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 2: that stuff, like the humor element and all those things

1265
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 2: that you're really showing your personalities. Whereas once I went

1266
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 2: back to the beginning and realized like, oh okay, it

1267
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 2: started off here and then you guys slowly blossomed into

1268
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:54,479
Speaker 2: this thing. I can imagine that the perception of who

1269
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 2: you guys were as a group or trying to present

1270
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 2: also probably played, you know, decisions made by the band.

1271
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: And I always wanted to know, like how the perception

1272
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 2: of being seen as sellouts or being too successful? Should

1273
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 2: we do this commercial or should we sign to this

1274
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 2: this label, this major label, like will we be the same?

1275
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:27,719
Speaker 2: Like how important is that perception playing in the band

1276
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 2: at that period in you're at least for the first

1277
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 2: three or four records, it was huge.

1278
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 14: I mean, I mean you were around during that time too.

1279
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 14: I mean that it just was such a different beast.

1280
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 14: You know, this this idea that somehow, you know, a

1281
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 14: major label was going to you know, rob you of

1282
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 14: your artistic credibility, that by aligning yourself with anything that

1283
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 14: was corporated or commercial, you know, signified you know, something

1284
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 14: that was anti art you know.

1285
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 9: And there were a lot of arguments.

1286
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 14: Treaties, know, books, zines, you know, and very lively polemic

1287
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 14: and a lot of real anger, I think from people

1288
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 14: that never really took into consideration how anyone grew up

1289
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 14: in terms of you know, if they had money and

1290
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 14: that you know, like it just never it was not

1291
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 14: a very nuanced conversation, but it was very real because

1292
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 14: you cared about your friends and to sort of admit,

1293
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 14: you know, I want something more than I can get.

1294
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 14: This route was really tricky, so we just we really

1295
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 14: didn't consider it. And I was probably the most hard

1296
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 14: line at the time. I was like the youngest, I

1297
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 14: was the baby in the band, and I think Corn

1298
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 14: was probably you probably were the most interested, am I right?

1299
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 13: No, Steel Magnolia is the termine years.

1300
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 12: I was always my eyes were always on the business

1301
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 12: route more than anyone else.

1302
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 9: Yeah, she's good about that. But you know, there were

1303
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 9: also these horror stories.

1304
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 14: You know, you would for every band that had a

1305
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 14: decent relationship with their A and R person, there was

1306
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 14: someone that ad signed to a major and been dropped,

1307
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 14: you know, like a band like Spoon or like or

1308
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 14: even coming from the Northwest, you see Nirvana, you see

1309
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 14: this guy that was tort supposedly, you know, tortured by

1310
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 14: the fact that you know, he no longer felt connected

1311
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 14: to who he was and his fans. So there were

1312
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 14: all these cautionary tales.

1313
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, we did a two party with

1314
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:34,440
Speaker 2: Monica Lynch as the president of Tommy Boy Records, Monica

1315
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 2: is responsible for releasing some of my favorite hip hop

1316
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 2: by day La Skul, Queen, Antifa and others. To listen

1317
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 2: to Monica speak, you can hear her passion and dedications

1318
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 2: which remains today.

1319
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: And this clip she speaks about being a white woman

1320
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: in a position of power and influence in a male

1321
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: dominated space.

1322
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,520
Speaker 2: What's cool about Monica is she also was a steadfast

1323
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 2: supporter of afrocentric hip hop, as well as other forms

1324
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 2: of music and sometimes marginalized communities. At this place, are

1325
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 2: you shocked that, even though you know Sylvia Robinson was

1326
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 2: running sugar Able Records or whatnot, were women in executive

1327
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 2: positions really not a thing? And I'm taking it out

1328
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 2: of hip hop just general at labels like I know

1329
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 2: about Sylvia Ron at least her, you know, coming up

1330
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 2: at at at Atlantic and starting east West and whatnot.

1331
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: And maybe I mean Cassargramils was more.

1332
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 15: At Casablanca before then.

1333
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 2: Well okay, well I knew about Neil Bogart, but who

1334
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 2: was running who was at Casablanca?

1335
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 15: Well, I believe Sylvia had started.

1336
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,680
Speaker 1: I did not know. Oh wow, all right, we give

1337
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: fact check it.

1338
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 16: This is a great, great subject matter, And I'm really

1339
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 16: happy you brought this up, because you know, there's a

1340
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 16: lot of women from that early eighties period who didn't

1341
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 16: necessarily get at their shine or necessarily get titles.

1342
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 15: I was, I think I was made president in eighty five.

1343
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 15: I still have the press release. And why do I

1344
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 15: have it because I had to write it.

1345
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 1: The writing Wikipedia entry.

1346
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 15: Yeah, like, yeah, your president, Now, could you go write

1347
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 15: this up?

1348
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 5: Yes?

1349
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 15: Okay, fine, so the but yeah, before in that.

1350
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 16: Early eighties period, I would say that the people that

1351
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 16: really come to my mind is like women who were

1352
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 16: doing a lot in the early hip hop labels would

1353
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 16: be Ann Carly at Jive Records, you know who. I

1354
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 16: actually knew Anne when she was working in the New

1355
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 16: York office of EG Records.

1356
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 15: I used to harass her for rocky music tour tickets

1357
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 15: and that.

1358
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 4: Uh.

1359
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 16: There was Jeanine Leclair who was at Next Plateau Records

1360
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 16: that worked with Eddie o'lachlin.

1361
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 8: There was D. D.

1362
01:12:55,280 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 16: Joseph who worked with at Prism Records, which became you know,

1363
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 16: which began Chill. Of course, there was Sylvia and there

1364
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 16: were others. And I'm really sorry because I should have

1365
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 16: prepared a list for this because it is important and

1366
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 16: there's a lot of people who you know, it was

1367
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 16: a bit later in the eighties when there were more

1368
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 16: women who were getting into the business, but there were

1369
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 16: a lot of women who were in the business then

1370
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 16: and they just didn't necessarily get as much recognition. They

1371
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:32,719
Speaker 16: might have started as a receptionist and became press or promo.

1372
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 15: So there's there's this whole.

1373
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 16: Wave of women that were part of the even like

1374
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:41,679
Speaker 16: late seventies and early eighties, whose whose names just don't

1375
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,599
Speaker 16: tend to come up as much.

1376
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:45,679
Speaker 15: So much in hip hop.

1377
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,640
Speaker 16: Has been told and told again through books and documentaries

1378
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 16: and everything, but there's still a lot of terrain that

1379
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 16: hasn't been touched really, So.

1380
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 2: What's the difficulty level of you like really as far

1381
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 2: as like pounding the desk and demanding that respect, like

1382
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 2: do you have to be tough as nails?

1383
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 1: Who ran book? And uh winter? Right? And when you

1384
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 1: have to come do you have to run it in

1385
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 1: a winter style?

1386
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 15: And you know, no, no, well I don't yeah, no,

1387
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 15: I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.

1388
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 16: You know. I get asked a lot over the years,

1389
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 16: people said, well, what was it like being a woman

1390
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 16: in the hip hop world, or what was it like

1391
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 16: being a white woman in the hip hop world? And

1392
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 16: I'm like, my response is usually like, you know what,

1393
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 16: there were so many opportunities for women in the fledgling

1394
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:40,440
Speaker 16: hip hop industry.

1395
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 15: Again, it was so small back then. If I had

1396
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 15: gone to say, oh, you.

1397
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 16: Know, Columbia Records or Mercury or PolyGram or whatever Warner Brothers,

1398
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 16: you know, and said, hey, you know, I'm looking for

1399
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 16: a job, I would have been lucky to get you know,

1400
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 16: be the coffee run or for some.

1401
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 15: Guy doing mid Atlantic radio promotion. Okay, so in hip

1402
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 15: hop because it.

1403
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 16: Was just a small little industry and no one was

1404
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 16: really checking. You know, like a lot of women were

1405
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 16: able to sort of get ahead in this business because

1406
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 16: there wasn't like a precedent.

1407
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 15: It wasn't an old boys network, you.

1408
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:23,240
Speaker 16: Know, so it was still being it was still being

1409
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 16: the story was being written, and you know, there was

1410
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 16: a lot of opportunities. Although I will say when I

1411
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 16: went to the first Jack the Rapper Convention, uh, a

1412
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 16: lot of people thought I was hired help for another reason. So,

1413
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 16: but you know the Rapper Convention, that's another documentary somebody

1414
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 16: should too.

1415
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 1: Oh boy, tales from the Rap Convention.

1416
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 2: So okay, when when okay, so eighty six, when Club

1417
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:57,719
Speaker 2: Neuveau starts hitting you know, lean on me and jealousy

1418
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 2: and all that. So it was highly it was on

1419
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 2: a capable like by that point, you guys are just

1420
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 2: you know, a force. Was there ever a temptation to

1421
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 2: say leave Tommy Boy and maybe and I don't want

1422
01:16:12,360 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 2: to discredit hip hop's you know, force or whatnot, but

1423
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 2: in the mind state of eighty seven, did you ever

1424
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: have the temptation or did someone from RCA or Warner

1425
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,560
Speaker 2: Brothers or quote a legit major.

1426
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: Label try to poach you away and say, come work

1427
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: for us.

1428
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 16: Yeah, there was a label A and M actually and

1429
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 16: A M was a real class operation, you know it was.

1430
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 15: I mean, there was like, uh and they even bought

1431
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 15: me a plane ticket and put me in a hotel.

1432
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 15: It was like, oh my god, you know, this is

1433
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 15: pretty great. But I it didn't didn't happen. I really

1434
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:55,959
Speaker 15: sort of sense that I was better.

1435
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:57,639
Speaker 16: Where it was, and it turned out to be true,

1436
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 16: you know, because it was towards you know, it was

1437
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 16: made president. I guess eighty five eighty six, I can't

1438
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 16: remember exactly, but you know, it was towards the end,

1439
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 16: you know, towards the late eighties where I really oversaw

1440
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 16: A and R and the creative direction for the label.

1441
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 15: I was already doing quite a bit already in both

1442
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 15: of those areas.

1443
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 16: And also, you know, in the early days, whether it

1444
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 16: was collecting money from distributors, or putting in pressers with

1445
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 16: the pressing plant, or getting the label copy typed up,

1446
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 16: or sitting with Bambada while he wrote out of special things,

1447
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 16: or creating a press list and writing press releases, talking to.

1448
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 15: You name it. It was like you got to do

1449
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 15: a lot of different things. But it was, you know,

1450
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,720
Speaker 15: in the late eighties where I sort of really I

1451
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 15: think that was a really golden erape for Tommy Boy

1452
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 15: in the late eighties and the early nineties.

1453
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:57,240
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty eight, you know, for me, at least

1454
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 2: in my life, one of the greatest pairaradigm shifts that

1455
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 2: really affected I mean, eighty eight was such a banner year.

1456
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 2: But you sign a group that literally changes the course

1457
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 2: of my life. And we've had various people involved with

1458
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 2: Daylas Soul projects, so we you know, you don't have

1459
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 2: to go through the every day, but what I do

1460
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:24,839
Speaker 2: want to know is who was responsible for the genius

1461
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:30,639
Speaker 2: marketing of day Las Soul because from the press photos

1462
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 2: to the fonts to the stickers. You know, for only

1463
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 2: time on life I ever got sent to the principal's

1464
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 2: office was because I put day Lost Soul stickers all

1465
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:43,600
Speaker 2: over my high school. Like, so, who was responsible? Like

1466
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 2: what was the brainchild operation of we can make these

1467
01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 2: guys bigger than hip hop?

1468
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 1: And I read that hip hop for hippies? Wasn't that

1469
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 1: your ship? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I was.

1470
01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 15: Very involved in all of that, but it was also.

1471
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 16: There's a lot of people at Tommy Boy that I

1472
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 16: would credit for being a huge part of this campaign.

1473
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 16: I think that it was a very critical decision to

1474
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:17,680
Speaker 16: have the Gray organization do the all the you know,

1475
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 16: all of the daisy or the imagery for the for

1476
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 16: the album cover. That was so that was I would

1477
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 16: say such a radical move at that point because they

1478
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 16: basically sort of threw down a gauntlet, uh to what

1479
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 16: the prevailing visual aesthetic was of hip hop. And I

1480
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 16: think it was the type of thing that a lot

1481
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 16: of people were like, what is this but you know,

1482
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 16: but but but the thing is before the album, before

1483
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 16: the album, and you saw all those visuals. You know,

1484
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:58,680
Speaker 16: Plug Tune In was a radical record and and and

1485
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:02,000
Speaker 16: I still have I still have the demo tape and

1486
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 16: I still have the write up that I did after

1487
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 16: my meeting with Daddy O. And I want to make

1488
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:10,599
Speaker 16: sure to credit Daddyo because it was Daddy O from

1489
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 16: Stetsasnic who called me and said, Hey, I've got these

1490
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 16: groups I'm shopping.

1491
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 15: Can we set up a meeting. I'm like yeah, da

1492
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 15: da da, And he sat on the phone. There were

1493
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:20,759
Speaker 15: three groups.

1494
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 16: Two of them were like Sore, these more mainstream like

1495
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 16: Rene and angela type of groups or something, and he mentioned, uh,

1496
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 16: Dela Saul.

1497
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 15: He said, oh, and there's this group that Paul's working

1498
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 15: with called De La Soult.

1499
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 16: And I do remember thinking that's a really intriguing name.

1500
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 16: You know what is that it didn't sound like a

1501
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 16: hip hop group. And so I met with him, and

1502
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:46,800
Speaker 16: that's in that demo tape of plug Tuning and.

1503
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 15: Freedom, Freedom of Speak I think was the freedom.

1504
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 16: Yeah, it was the two tracks on the on the

1505
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 16: one cassette, and it was like you immediately knew that

1506
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 16: it was either gonna be big or nothing. And that's

1507
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:08,879
Speaker 16: where I think Tommy Boys legacy largely lies with signings

1508
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 16: that were sort of in that category you're gonna love

1509
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 16: it or you're not gonna hate it, but it wasn't

1510
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 16: in the middle, and Dala Soul I think personifies that.

1511
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 16: And you know, the the demo of plug Tuning sounds

1512
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 16: pretty much. I'm pretty sure I don't think that it

1513
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 16: was even even mixed, you know. I think it was

1514
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 16: an eight track that Paul did and I don't think

1515
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 16: it even went beyond that.

1516
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,560
Speaker 15: By the time it was mastered. I think it was

1517
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 15: still like this eight trick demo sounding thing.

1518
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 16: And we had this We did this ad campaign where

1519
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,600
Speaker 16: we got all these different people to say, you.

1520
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: Know, you know how it is, you know, like when

1521
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 1: you know Latifa's mom, she was part of it.

1522
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 15: Latifa's mom, the lake Rita Owens we did.

1523
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 16: We did a campaign that I came in for Dala Soul,

1524
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 16: I came in for Patty LaBelle, I came out with

1525
01:21:57,080 --> 01:22:01,760
Speaker 16: Dala Saul. We had this with like some goofy, you know,

1526
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:04,160
Speaker 16: sort of straight looking white guy like you know, I

1527
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 16: came in for.

1528
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:08,320
Speaker 15: I forget it wasn't steely Dan.

1529
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 1: We hung that up in Sam Goodies. I worked at

1530
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 1: Sam goodies at the time.

1531
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:16,800
Speaker 16: Oh man, well then you know, so this is that

1532
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 16: imaging campaign I think was fantastic. We had a great

1533
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 16: full page ad and billboard. I said DLA gold when

1534
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 16: it went gold. But you know, I think a lot

1535
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:32,880
Speaker 16: of it sprung from the group itself, because you know,

1536
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 16: I still have and I shared this with pass actually

1537
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 16: just last week.

1538
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 15: He sat down in the office and with this he has.

1539
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 16: A very distinctive style of cursive and he was writing

1540
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 16: down the history of Dala Soul on this notebook paper set,

1541
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 16: describing who each group member was. And he was writing

1542
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 16: it in day La speak. And that was another thing too,

1543
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 16: because like, nobody knew what the fuck they were talking about.

1544
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 15: They had their own language, like what are they tell?

1545
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 8: What the what do you mean?

1546
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 15: Plug tune?

1547
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:09,560
Speaker 6: And what's that you know?

1548
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:11,880
Speaker 15: And what is true? Guy the dove?

1549
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 8: You know?

1550
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 15: What is all this stuff?

1551
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 16: But they but they had a different look, They had

1552
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 16: a different sensibility. So there was a lot there to

1553
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:24,920
Speaker 16: already work with and to sort of get inspired to

1554
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 16: do interesting and creative marketing and promotion. You really can't

1555
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:34,560
Speaker 16: do something unless the something that the project and the

1556
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 16: recordings and the artists that you're working with are interesting in.

1557
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 15: And of themselves.

1558
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 16: You can blow it up and magnify it. But if

1559
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 16: they're not, if it's not inherently interesting and great, you

1560
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 16: can't really do anything.

1561
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 15: So so they really they were like, wow, this group

1562
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 15: pretty interesting. There a lot of people played role.

1563
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 16: I don't know if you know Rod Houston because he's

1564
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 16: also from from Philadelphia.

1565
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 15: He's now one of the biggest voice.

1566
01:23:58,400 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 1: Side He's a voice aided guy.

1567
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:01,320
Speaker 6: He's huge.

1568
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 15: He's huge.

1569
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:05,880
Speaker 16: And Rod I still have the copy that he wrote

1570
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 16: up because we did this contest to name the sample and.

1571
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, did you did you enter?

1572
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 6: I didn't.

1573
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know the LIBERACEI or any Yeah I didn't

1574
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: know that.

1575
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 16: Yeah we got I still have a lot of the

1576
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 16: entries from the contest that I kept. A lot of

1577
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 16: people thought it was Bobby Bloom And the only person

1578
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 16: who got the who the only person who got it

1579
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,400
Speaker 16: right was Joel Weber, as I mentioned to him earlier

1580
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 16: with the Partners in the New Music Seminar. And he's

1581
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:40,560
Speaker 16: the guy who put out He was an A and

1582
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 16: R guy at Fourth and Broadway in Island. He put

1583
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:46,599
Speaker 16: out the Dominatrix Sleeps Tonight and he was the only

1584
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 16: one who identified the invitations right, It's written on the

1585
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 16: wall is the sample right record. So they So there

1586
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 16: was a lot of really great things that sort of

1587
01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 16: sprung from the fact that the group themselves were so

1588
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,880
Speaker 16: different and so interesting. And I think that that whole

1589
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 16: Daisy age imagery, you know, was certainly a blessing and

1590
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 16: a curse for the group, because then they didn't really

1591
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 16: like being named the hippies of hip.

1592
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 15: Hop, and you know, pushed back against it, you know.

1593
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 16: But that was that album Three Feet High in Rising,

1594
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 16: you know, And that was actually the first project I

1595
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 16: assigned to Dante. I loved that, Dante, make sure you

1596
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:30,519
Speaker 16: get this, get the clearances for so and so and

1597
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 16: so and so. But it was the first project that

1598
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 16: he worked on, which was fantastic. He did an amazing job.

1599
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:42,760
Speaker 15: And Paul, of course, you know, yeah, thank you for this.

1600
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 2: Listen back for Women's History Month. Ket's new episodes a

1601
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 2: Quest Love Supreme coming soon.

1602
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Quest Love Supreme. Posted by

1603
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 1: I'm here Quest Love Thompson. Are you saying clear? Sugar?

1604
01:25:57,080 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 1: Steve mandel An unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers are Amir,

1605
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 1: Quest Love Thomas, Sean Cheek and Brian Calvin. Produced by Britney,

1606
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 1: Benjamin Cousin, Jake Payne, Eliah Saint Clair, edited by Alex Conroy.

1607
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: Produced by iHeart by Noel Brown and quest Love Supreme

1608
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:31,120
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from

1609
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1610
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.