WEBVTT - Coaching Is Not An Autocracy with Muffet McGraw 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.200 Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're still 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.880 cheesing over the Minnesota frost rocking eighties ski suits to 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.840 their Denver Takeover Tour game. It's Tuesday, January fourteenth, and 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:12.840 on today's show, we'll be chatting with Hall of Fame 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:17.280 coach Muffett McGraw about Notre Dame's success this season, Hannah Hidalgo, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.800 the state of coaching in women's sports, and more. Plus 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.040 a brit goes to Canada College hockey gets cooking and 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:27.080 some folks have punched their tickets straight to the bad place. 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:37.080 It's all coming up right after this welcome back slices. 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.960 Here's what you need to know today to soccer. Casey 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.720 Stoney has officially been confirmed as the next coach of 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.240 the Canadian national team, just seven months after her questionable 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.760 firing as head coach of the San Diego Wave. If 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:52.680 you remember, Stony led the Wave to the playoffs in 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.280 the team's inaugural season before winning the NWSL Shield and 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.440 NWSL Challenge Cup in the following two years. The lead 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.360 for Team Canada after former head coach Bev Priestman was 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.160 handed a one year suspension by FIFA and then fired 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.560 by Soccer Canada after an investigation into the program's use 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.320 of drones to spy on other teams. There's also some 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.720 coaching news in pro basketball, with a couple WNBA teams 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.080 rounding out their benches. Newly announced Dallas Wings coach Chris 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.120 Koklanis has hired Camille Smith and Nola Henry to serve 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.840 as assistants. Smith and Henry both served as assistants for 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.440 the Los Angeles Sparks under then head coach Kurt Miller 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.360 during the twenty twenty four season. Henry is also one 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.960 of the head coaches for the inaugural season of Unrivaled, 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.600 where she'll lead the Rose basketball club. The New York 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.080 Liberty also announced the signing of a new assistant coach, 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.200 Sonia Rahman. She most recently served as an assistant coach 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.280 for the mnba's Memphis Grizzlies, spending five seasons with the team. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.360 To college hockey, the Women's bean Pot gets underway tonight. 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.840 The annual tournament is a big deal in Boston, where 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.960 the four local teams Northeastern, bu BC, and Harvard meet 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.800 up to compete for bragging rights. Last year's championship mark 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.240 the five first time the women played at t D Garden, 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.200 home of the NHL's Bruins, and they'll be back again 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.280 this year for next Tuesday's championship. But first, the semi 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.359 finals get underway tonight at Northeastern's Matthew's Arena. Boston College 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.920 faces off against Harvard, followed by BC against Northeastern. Finally, 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.680 some infuriating and scary news over the weekend, A fifty 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.560 five year old man from Texas was arrested in Indianapolis 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.880 and charged with felony stalking after he allegedly sent threats 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.320 and sexually explicit messages to WNBA star Caitlin Clark. The 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.160 Athletic reviewed the court documents and reported that the man, 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.160 named Michael Lewis, traveled from his home in Texas to 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.200 Indiana in order to be closer to Clark. The Indianapolis 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.000 Star reported that prosecutors have moved to ban the man 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.040 from the two home venues where the Fever play, Hanklefield 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:49.760 House and Gainbridge Field House. We got to take a 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.360 quick break. When we come back, we get real honest. 0:02:52.440 --> 0:03:02.200 With Muffett McGraw joining us now. She was the head 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.200 women's basketball coach at Notre Dame from nineteen eighty seven 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.880 to twenty twenty, compiling an eight hundred and forty eight 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.119 and two to fifty two record over thirty three seasons. 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.120 She led her team to nine final fours, seven championship 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.400 game appearances, and two National Championship wins. A college player 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.040 at Saint Joseph's University, then briefly a pro player for 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.120 the California Dreams of the Women's Professional Basketball League, she 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.520 coached a few spots before Notre Dame, including Lehigh, where 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.959 she coached now WNBA Commissi Kathy Engelbert, a member of 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.560 the Nasmith Basketball Hall of Fame and the Women's Basketball 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.639 Hall of Fame and the first female coach at Notre 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.680 Dame to have a statue in her honor. She was 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.080 born Ann, but she legally changed her name to Muffett. 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.480 Yes like little Miss Muffett, and she once appeared on 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.800 NPR's weight Wait don't tell me an incorrectly answered a 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.920 question about a nursery rhyme that's actually about consorting with prostitutes. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.240 It's Muffett McGraw. What's up, coach? 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.000 I remember that. Wait, wait, don't tell me. That was 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:52.720 so much fun. I'd love that show. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.160 I was shocked to hear that the Lucy goosey or 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.119 whatever rhyme was actually about hookers. 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.280 I had little to I know. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:02.680 Coach, thank you so much for taking time to come 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.920 on the show. You retired from coaching in twenty twenty, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.560 and we saw you pop up on ESPN recently doing 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.240 some NCAA hoops analysis. Can we expect more of that? 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.160 Tell us what else you've been up to. 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.839 I'm on every Thursday night on the ACC Network. We 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:18.880 have a women's show. It's the only women's show in 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.000 the country. We feature ACC basketball, but we have an 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.680 hour long show all women, and that's all we talk 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.680 about every single week right up through the tournament. And 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.599 I'm doing a little bit of ESPN also, but mostly 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:31.960 we cover ACC Network. 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:33.520 What's the show called, tell us? 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.320 Oh, it's called nothing but Net. But the problem is 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.919 the men's show is called nothing but Net also, so 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.239 when you're taping them, you're going to get a hundred 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.440 of them instead of just the one. So you have 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:44.680 to find a Thursday night show. 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.120 Okay, Thursday night, nothing but Net. I love that. I 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.680 want to talk some Irish hoops before we zoom out 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.840 and go more big picture. We've seen former players take 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.840 over coaching duties at their alma maters with success before, 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:00.000 but neil Ivy's transitioned to head coach just felt especially seamless. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.080 And we know she was your assistant for over a 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.440 decade before taking over. That certainly helps. But what is 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:06.520 it about her that makes her such an excellent head 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:07.279 coach and recruiter? 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:09.400 You know, I think point guards make the best coaches. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.520 They look at the game differently, they study the game differently, 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:14.880 you know, they see it from that angle where they're 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.039 seeing the whole floor. They know everything that's going on 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.719 in every position. And as a point guard, she was 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.680 that kind of player, just a really smart player, a 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.560 great leader, and I knew a long time ago that 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.039 she was going to be a terrific coach. So when 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.240 I had a job open, it was pretty much the 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.200 easiest decision ever made to hire neil Ivy. And she 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.680 was young, she didn't know, she didn't have any experience, 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.920 she didn't know a lot, But each day, each year 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:40.960 really kind of gave her a little bit more and 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.479 a little bit more until eventually she was ready to 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.440 do it all. But the first year she came in, 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.800 I said you have one job. Get Skylar Diggins to 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.520 say yes to Notre Dame. That's the only recruit you have. 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.600 I want you working full time on that. And then 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.400 of course she did that very well and continued to 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.159 be one of our recruiters. But also she was a 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.640 great scout. She understands offense and defense. And then the 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.279 year that I was about to retire, she had an 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.599 opportunity to go to Memphis in the NBA and have 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.640 a year in the NBA. And you know, I said, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.039 what a great training ground for you. You've only ever 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.279 known me. You know I'm the only person you played 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.159 for me. You coach with me, go learn something different 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.240 from somebody else at the highest level. And I think 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:27.560 that really helped her as well. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.320 So speaking of recruiting, actually I want to ask you this. 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.320 Caitlyn Clark talked about how Notre Dame was top of 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.240 the list and then she made the switch to Iowa. 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.279 What do you remember about those conversations and what would 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.040 it have looked like if it had been Caitlyn Clark 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:40.720 at Notre Dame. 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.760 I may still be coaching if Kaitlyn Clark couldn't come 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.200 to Notre Dame. I remember it well. I loved recruiting 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:52.080 her terrific, terrific person, loved her game of parents, great family, 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.520 everything was good. She went to a Catholic school. When 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.080 I went to recruiting at Dallan Catholic, they waited on me. 0:06:58.160 --> 0:06:59.960 I mean, they brought me popcorn, they brought me drink, 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.599 you know, they gave me special seating. It was amazing. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.000 Everybody in the place, I think, wanted her to go 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.520 to Notre Dame. And it was fun recruiting or the 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.160 home visit was great. She committed to us, but I 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.240 had a feeling it was kind of a soft commitment 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.160 when she did, because she couldn't decide, couldn't decide. And 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.400 then finally she said, you know, I want to come, 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.520 but it wasn't it wasn't like I'm coming, you know, 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.360 it was kind of like I made the decision. And 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.840 so after that we waited and waited for her to 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.120 announce it because, as you know, we're not allowed to 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.960 announce anything. The players have to do that themselves. And 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.840 so she made the announcement. A long time after that, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:38.640 I kept saying, when is it coming out? And then 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.600 when she made the announcement she was going to Iowa. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.360 But of course she called me first to tell me 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.200 that she was going to that classy person that she is, 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.520 you know, And I thought, after seeing four years of 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.640 her at Iowa, it was probably a pretty good decision 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.280 because I remember thinking, I'm not sure I'm gonna like 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.800 those shots right over half court when we have all 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.680 these good players around you. So I think she made 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.200 a good decision. We would have obviously been contending for 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.440 national championship if she had come to Notre Dame, but 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:08.280 total respect for her game. 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.040 Oh, I can hear the Notre Dame fans out there 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:15.480 both crying and screaming about that missed opportunity. Okay, let's 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.400 talk this Irish team. After a little transitional period, they've 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.480 been back in the top five on a regular basis 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.160 for the last three seasons, currently sitting at number three 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.840 in the country with what feels like a pretty good 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.119 opportunity to make a title run. What do you enjoy 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.480 most about watching this group of players and the brand 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:31.600 of hoops they're playing. 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.559 The best backcourt in the country at Notre Dame. I'm 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.040 loving Olivia Miles is an incredible passer. She has such 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.520 great vision. She's really fun to watch improved a three 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.200 point percentage by twenty percentage points. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:46.679 Wow. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.199 And then Hannah Hidalgo, who was the national player of 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.600 the year I think, and she also leads the nation 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.400 in steals. She's I think second in the country in scoring, 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.480 first in steals. Those two are so hard to guard. 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.120 You want to put your best defender on one of them, 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:02.880 and you can't decide which one. And then you've got 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.680 Sonya Citron on the wing. Mattie Westfield is back and healthy. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.719 I mean, what a terrific, terrific squad. And they got 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.679 Leah tu King from pitt in the transfer portal. She 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.720 is playing great basketball right now. So this team has 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.320 all of the tools to get to the final four. 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:21.920 Doesnielle ever call you just like, Hey, I have a 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:23.680 quick question or I was thinking about this. What do 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:24.920 you make of this? Oh? 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:29.640 Yeah, we talk and I text her pretty frequently just 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.240 after games about great stuff. I don't I never critique 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.079 the team, but yeah, we talk more in the preseason. 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:37.360 You know, here's what we're putting in. What do you 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:38.240 think about this or that? 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.440 Oh? Wow, what a nice thing for her to have 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.360 you on on standby for that. You mentioned Hannahidalgo such 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.480 a fun player to watch, absolutely insane swag, so many 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.960 skills in her bag, and it's been interesting to see 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:55.120 the reaction to her play. She obviously as a player, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.920 is undoubtedly, like you said, in the running for Player 0:09:57.960 --> 0:09:59.640 of the Year. But I haven't seen a lot of 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:01.719 covered of some of the online pushback that she got. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.600 Last summer, she reposted a conversation to her Instagram story. 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.640 It was a conversation between former CNN host and gay 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.800 man Don Lemon and Candice Owens, who's a political commentator, 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.600 and she later deleted it, but she posted this part 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.280 of the video where Lemon asked Owens if she believes 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.720 that he's sinful because he's married to a man, and 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.000 Owens responded, yes, you're sinning, you're in a sinful relationship. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.440 I actually don't believe marriage can be between two men. 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.520 And you know, obviously people are allowed to have their beliefs, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.520 but when religious beliefs include sharing some of those bigoted views, 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.760 and especially when they're in this space of women's basketball 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.120 that has plenty of out gay athletes, I wonder what 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.640 responsibility there is for the team or the media, I guess, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.720 to hold an athlete accountable to expect them to speak 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:45.920 on that and defend that behavior. What did you make 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.320 of that and how it's been responded to or maybe 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:50.040 not responded to. 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.559 I thought it was a really poor choice on her part, 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.040 first been leaving that I think it's a poor choice, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.800 and then saying it on as you said, on a 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.880 stage where women's basketball. There are a number of gay 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.319 players out there, and I thought that it was almost 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.239 insulting to our teammates, to everybody in the game of basketball. 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.320 I was really disappointed that it came out that way. 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.439 I was happy that she deleted it, but the damage 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.719 I think was done before she deleted it. 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.760 Yeah. I think we've talked about this on our show 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.720 with a couple different athletes, where the natural instinct is 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.120 to call someone out for behavior that you disagree with, 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.360 but ultimately, when you're on a team, you're in a 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.480 locker room, you have to work together with a shared goal. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:38.920 There is this feeling of calling in. How do you 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:41.920 hold someone accountable and also try to let them learn 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.280 or experience life in a way that might change their 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.920 mind about something like that. How do you balance accountability 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.240 in a locker room when you were coaching with all 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.080 these different mindsets and lived experiences coming together. 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:55.760 Well, you know, Sarah, I think the great thing about 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.120 sports is we're a microcosm of society and we deal 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:04.160 and live work with different people who you know, different 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:09.040 They come from different backgrounds, black, white, straight, gay, religious, 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.199 not religious. You know, there's so many things that they 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.520 do to work together, and they come out as a 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.520 team with one goal, one team. And so I think 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.400 it's really hard to have a player in the locker 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:22.319 room that feels that way about somebody else in the 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.199 locker room who may be gay. So I think it's 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:26.880 going to take it would take a lot of conversations. 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.079 Accountability for me, was like that was the number one 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.720 thing in having a championship team. Honesty, trust and accountability. 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.959 It's hard to trust when you have somebody that believes 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.920 that what you believe is wrong. So I think it 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.400 takes a lot of time to kind of get to 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.160 know people, learn, you know, this is what I think, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.120 this is who I am, you know, and really have 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.680 open conversations about it, because I don't think it's a 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.680 good idea to just see it and then not talk 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:54.160 about it. 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.360 Yeah, yeah, it does feel like ultimately it's as festers 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:01.080 when there aren't more open conversations about it. She's a 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.880 young person and I hope that she does find her 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:05.520 way to the other side of that kind of thinking. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.760 But hopefully there is support within that locker room and 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.599 accountability eventually. Right if any of those posts continue, or 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.600 if she continues to make those kind of statements. I 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.320 want to talk about now that you're separated from the 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.800 space a little bit more, not in it every day. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.920 Back in twenty twenty one, you said you thought ESPN 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.920 was biased toward Yukon. Do you still think that's an issue? 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.080 Has it changed at all? And now that there is 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:32.600 a little bit more parody in terms of the superstar players, coaches, storylines, 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.080 is ESPN doing a better job sharing the wealth? 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.959 Well? I think now the fact that the Big East 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.680 is on Fox, I think that they don't have as 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.360 many games on. But I think the real thing that's changed, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.520 Sarah was when conferences got their own TV deals, the 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:51.959 ACC Network, the SEC Network, people were able to watch 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.720 games without hearing about Yukon because the announcers were focusing 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.480 on that conference. So I think that conversations really have 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.200 turned to you know, what's happening in the SEC, what's 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:04.600 happening in the ACC, what's happened in the Big Ten. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.560 I mean, everybody has their own networks, so when you 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.080 watch games, you're not constantly hearing about that. And I 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.520 think the fact that we've you know, we've had other 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.680 really good teams South Carolina, LSU, so many other different 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.280 teams are winning now, I think that there is room 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.000 for everyone. I think that Connecticut definitely benefited from what 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:31.000 they got from ESPN through the years, but lately with 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.000 other teams winning, I don't I think that they still 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.200 believe that everybody wants to watch Yukon play. And then 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.360 when you look at the teams and the games, and 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.560 you saw what happened in the final last year with 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.600 you know, Connecticut wasn't in the final, and we set 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.880 records for people watching and listening. So I think they're 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.520 they're learning, but I think they still that's still their fallback. 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.120 Yeah, and it's so close, like literally geographically too. So 0:14:54.720 --> 0:15:00.440 I found those conversations simultaneously infuriating and fascinating for all 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:04.280 those years about like, is Yukon women's basketball bad for women? 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.200 And it was like you both understood that singular focus 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.400 was limiting your ability to learn about the rest of 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.520 the teams and stars. And you also knew that when 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.680 you create this like sometimes person or team to hate 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.240 because they're always winning, it also drives interest in a 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.120 way that spreading the wealth doesn't. So I think we're 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.480 in a much better spot now as women's basketball. But 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.000 I do think they played their role in kind of 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.280 the same way that Caitlyn played a role in this 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.120 massive leap of excitement. Is people sometimes need that one 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.080 thing to focus in on that kind of opens the 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:36.120 door for them. Do you agree? 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.560 I absolutely agree? And can I get set the standard? 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.080 I mean they raised the bar for everyone, and you know, 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.560 rising tide lifts all boats. Everybody started to say, we 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:45.920 got to do what they're doing. How are we going 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.880 to do that? What do we have to do recruiting wise, 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.640 what kind of style of play? What is it that 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.000 we need to improve on to get to their level? 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.080 And that was the biggest thing. I think It's all 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.880 about recruiting. They have three Player of the Years right 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:03.000 now on their high school Player of the Years, and 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:04.640 you're gonna have a pretty good team when you get 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.600 the number one player. And what happened to give us parody? 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.040 You know, Asia decides you're gonna go to South Carolina 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.880 and Leah Boston went to South Carolina, and different people 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.760 were going different places, and that's really how we got 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.800 the parody going. Somebody like Caitlin Clark stays in Iowa 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.400 and brings them to a Final Four. So I think 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.200 when you have players that are willing to go different places. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.840 But again, if you're not hearing Connecticut all the time 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.360 every time you're watching the game, maybe you will think, hey, 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.040 we're watching South Carolina right now, and they had a 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.080 pretty good spob. 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.960 Yeah, for sure. And also just investment right across the 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.080 space where you see what Yukon has and you think, 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.400 let's bring that to our school by actually investing in 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.800 coaches and resources and everything else, which has been really 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.080 cool to see. Yeah, I want to pick your brain 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.080 about coaching, in particular in women's basketball. Let's take a 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:56.880 listen to this answer that you gave you. You were 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.560 asked a question about women and coaching at the Final 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.120 Four back in twenty nineteen and talked about women in 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.520 leadership spaces in general, and this went truly viral. Let's 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.360 take a listen. Muffett. I know you made some comments 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.840 about hiring practices and what you do in the future. 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.800 How important. As your career has gone on and we've 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.360 lost past summit, how seriously do you take being that voice? 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.479 Did you know that the Equal Rights Amendment was introduced 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:26.320 in nineteen sixty seven and it still hasn't passed. We 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.680 need thirty eight states to agree that discrimination on the 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:36.000 basis of sex is unconstitutional. We've had a record number 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.600 of women running for office and winning, and still we 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.160 have twenty three percent of the House and twenty five 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.760 percent of the Senate. I'm getting tired of the novelty 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.840 of the first American, the first female governor of this state, 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:54.320 the first female African American mayor of this city. When 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.560 is it going to become the norm instead of the exception. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.879 How are these young women looking up and seeing someone 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.320 that looks like them preparing them for the future. We 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.840 don't have enough female role models, We don't have enough 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.000 visible women leaders. We don't have enough women in power. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.800 Girls are socialized to know when they come out, generals 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:18.959 are already set. Men run the world, Men have the power, 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.520 Men make the decisions. It's always the men that is 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.200 the stronger one. And when these girls are coming out. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:26.920 Who are they looking up to to tell them that 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.320 that's not the way it has to be. And where 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.760 better to do that than in sports. All these millions 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.680 of girls that play sports across the country. They could 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.800 come out every day and we're teaching them great things 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.399 about life skills. But wouldn't it be great if we 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.199 could teach them to watch how women lead. This is 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.359 a path for you to take to get to the 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.399 point where in this country we have fifty percent of 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.480 women in power. We have less out right now, less 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.960 than five percent of women are CEOs of fortune five 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:59.040 hundred companies. So yes, when you look at men's basketball 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.200 and ninety nine percent of the jobs go to men, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.480 why shouldn't one hundred or ninety nine percent of the 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.560 jobs in women's basketball go to women. Maybe it's because 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.920 we only have ten percent women athletic directors in division. IE. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.600 People hire people who look like them, and that's the problem. 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.280 Gosh. I'm still very moved by that, and I remember 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.600 being asked about it on around the Horn with you know, 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.320 some of the obvious and expected questions about is it 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.160 similarly discriminatory to not hire men and only hire women? 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:31.920 But to first, I want to ask do you feel 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.360 better or worse about the state of coaching and equality 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.000 in general today than you did then? 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.640 You know, I think I think there were some improvements initially. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.160 I think right after that people really did start to think. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.040 But I think we're still sixty percent men forty percent women, 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.160 and that's a problem. The problem comes from the athletic 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.360