WEBVTT - Inside View: Making Cancer Visible w/ Andrey Zarur 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.960 Welcome to tech Stuff. This is the story, and today 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.320 I'm here with Cara Price. Hey os Hey, Cara. This 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.239 week's story is one that is quite personal to me, 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.119 and it has to do with the technology that we 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.360 use to detect and treat cancer. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:31.880 You know, I think cancer is unfortunately one of those 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.199 things that many people have confronted. Even if you have 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.600 never received a cancer diagnosis, many people have watched loved 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.200 ones struggle to overcome the disease. 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.839 That's right, and my parents separated when I was very 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.760 very young one. In fact, my parents are sort lived 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.199 in different countries, so I was often shuttling around between 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.240 them in the company of a nanny who was essentially 0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:01.120 a third parent, and she unfortunately got with breast cancer 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.399 that was detected too late. She had a double mistectomy, 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:11.160 but the cancer already metastasized and she died. And it's 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.600 one of the great sadnesses of my life. 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.320 In fact, I'm sorry to hear that, you know, it's 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.959 unfortunately an all too common story. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.880 Absolutely. So I got connected with this guy called Andre 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.600 Zor a few months ago, and he's a biochemist and 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.400 also the co founder of a company called Loomis cell 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:36.280 which is a company that's changing how cancer surgeries are performed. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.320 So I was pretty intrigued. 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.479 So can you just explain to me what is wrong 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.760 with the way that surgeries are being done now? 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.200 Well, I was pretty surprised to hear from andre that 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:55.000 cancer surgery isn't as precise as perhaps we might imagine 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.720 or hope. He says that there's actually a fair amount 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.840 of art to the science of detecting and then removing 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:02.200 tumors in surgery. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.800 I think it's one of those dirty secrets in medicine 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:11.600 that people don't really realize. Cancer surgery is extraordinarily imprecise, 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.239 and even the best surgeons in the world will miss 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:22.880 cancer because, contrary to common perception, cancer cells are really 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:23.520 not that. 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.280 Different from normal tissue. 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.440 It's very difficult to tell in real time during a surgery, 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.640 with everything going on, where does the tumorand and the 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:34.120 healthy tissue start. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.600 In fact, Andrei told me that the best cancer surgeons 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.920 are considered the best because they're so good at detecting 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.440 where the cancerous tissue ends and where the healthy tissue begins. 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.440 This is through a process called palpating, which is basically 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.360 a fancy way of saying feeling out by touch, the 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.240 difference between healthy cells and cancerus cells. 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.560 I've been there, and I've tried, and I can't feel 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:06.440 a damn thing. It's not something that the untrained fingers 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.240 are able to detect. But all of the world's best 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:13.080 surgeons is able to tell whether there's cancer left behind 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.360 by pile paiding around where the primary tumor was and 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.840 deciding in real time whether more tissue needs to be 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:24.960 taken out or not. But most cancer surgeries are imperfect, 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.680 and on average, if we look at all cancer surgeries, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.960 thirty to forty percent of the time, thirty to forty 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.760 percent of the time there will be cancer left behind, 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:36.800 not on purpose, unintentionally. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:38.760 That seems like a high percentage. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.040 Yeah, I mean, of course, is not to say that 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:45.240 cancer surgery is ineffective. Alongside drugs, these procedures have saved 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.440 millions of lives in the past few decades. Andrew thinks 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.400 we can do better and save more lives, and so 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.480 he set out to solve this problem, and his company 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:59.920 has now created a technology to more precisely detect cancerous tissue. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.240 It's called Loomis cell, and so far it's being used 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.560 to treat breast cancer patients. But Andre doesn't want to 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.760 stop at just one type of cancer. He wants to 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.960 treat them all, and he has a deeply personal reason 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.160 to do so. He told me that he watched one 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.400 of the women who he loved most in his life, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.080 a woman he grew up with, suffer from an unsuccessful 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.640 avarian cancer treatment. Andre tells it best, So here's the 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:34.720 rest of our conversation. And I've lived through the tragedy 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.840 of an unsuccessful cancer treatment, and so of you, and 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.200 I'm wondering if you could tell that story. 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.120 It was one of those incredibly sad stories that her 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.120 cancer was called relatively late. It was a varian cancer, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.760 and he was a varian cancer that had metastasized to. 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.200 What we call the peroneal cavity. 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.359 That is the cavity where all the reproductive organs of 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.960 the women are, as well as several other Bible ord 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:05.720 And there is really no way to identify where cancer 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:11.960 has metastasized in the peritoneal cavity other than palpating around 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.080 and trying to figure out where the cancer is. And unfortunately, 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.159 more often than not, they failed. The vast majority of 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.159 times they failed. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.360 What was the name of the friend that you lost. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:25.680 Her name was Monica. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.880 If I remember from our last conversation, though, you really 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.200 lived through the journey with Monic current and you may 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.040 have promised to her, I think before she passed away. 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.400 Yeah, it was one of these things that you never forget, 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:38.960 you know, we went through this journey together. 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:40.920 She was in Mexico at the time I was here 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:42.520 in Boston, and so. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.240 Because I was privileged to work with a lot of 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.480 top physicians in the field, I was able to put 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.520 her in contact with some of the best doctors in 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.600 the varian cancer and you know, the incredible team at 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.560 MD Anderson was able to extend her life by almost 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.799 nine months, which is unheard of or a stage four 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.360 over a cancer patient. She had just had a baby, Emilia, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.640 who unfortunately grew up not knowing his mom. Her doctor, 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.160 David at m D Anderson said, look, we're at the 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.200 end of the line here, We're done here, and she 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.239 needs to find peace on the fact that she fought 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.479 with all her will, but it's time for her to 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.719 let go. And so I flew to Mexico City and 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.480 the whole family was there and we're talking, and you know, 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.960 she was making jokes, and then at some point we 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.000 were left alone and she said, I don't understand the 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.960 why why aren't we doing better? Why is in the 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.120 field doing something that will give women like me who 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.960 just gave birth to beautiful, healthy baby, the opportunity to 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.800 leave longer to do something with our lives. Why why 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.400 aren't you doing more? And I said, well, you know, 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.560 it's a combination of factors where she's like, look, I 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.080 don't want to hear you have to promise me, and 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.800 I did that you're going to do everything in your power, 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.599 everything you can to make sure this doesn't ever happen 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:06.640 again to another woman. That when a woman gets diagnosed 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.159 with a variant cancer, breast cancer, correctal cancer, whatever it 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.480 may be, and they tell her that she needs to 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.080 go to surgery, that they're not going to tell her 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:16.800 at the end of the surgery what they told me, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.320 which is there's some cancer left behind and you have 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.800 weeks to leave. You have to promise me that you're 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.360 going to do everything in your power and you're not 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.400 going to rest until you have figured out a solution 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.480 to this. And I did. I, you know, held her 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:33.000 hand in mind, and I said, I promise you. 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:33.600 I will do that. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.480 She passed away a few weeks later. We didn't discuss 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.680 this ever again, and you know, it was kind of 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.160 stuck in the back of my mind for a couple 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:43.720 of years. So I was like, Okay, well I made 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.480 this promise. And then you know, I met my co 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.520 founder David. He had just lost his wife to breast cancer, 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.160 and I saw the opportunity to partner up with. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.040 Somebody who was as heart and as deeply. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.040 Moved by the fact that we can do better by 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.320 these women, that we can't do better by their families, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.559 and you know, we have the power to do something 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:07.120 to change it. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.200 And so that's how a fifteen year journey started. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:14.440 Fifteen years almost to the date. Let's talk about what 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.960 is loumicell, What does it do, how does it work. 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.760 What we know is that if you catch cancer early, 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.320 surgery can be curative if you get all the cancer 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:31.840 cells out, But most cancer surgeries are imperfect. When you 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.839 do a breast conserving surgery, the problem is that thirty 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.679 to forty percent of the time, the surgeon will inadvertently 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:43.080 leave cancer cells behind. So what loomicell does, for the 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:48.319 first time in history is it gives the surgeons a guideline, 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.480 a signal where they are able to identify in real 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.760 time during the surgery whether there are cancer cells left 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:02.040 behind or not. How well, you get a Nobel Price 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.439 winner and you get a couple of really smart people 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.200 from MIT, and you define the problem. And that's what 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.959 people from MIT do. They go and solve problems, right, 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.080 And so in this case, Munjigu Weendi, Jorge Ferreer and 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.079 David Leif they sort of joined me in this journey 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:17.959 and said, all right, well, we need something that is 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.640 extraordinarily safe, inexpensive that can be injected before surgery and 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:28.040 will give surgeons the ability to make cancer cells illuminate, 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.400 be fluorescent under normal light. 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:31.840 Only it's purple light. 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.760 And so the surgeon will switch off the big lamp 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.560 that you see on the ceiling on the operating room, 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.480 and the device that we use has purple light coming 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:42.920 out of it, and when it hits the cells that 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.720 are cancers, those cells fluores back and can be detected 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.160 and displayed on the screen so the surgeon can take 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.280 action immediately. The way it works at the molecular level 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.600 is proteins have a function, and if you can tailor 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.840 protein function you can make some real magic happen. And 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.360 so what we do is we take advantage of a 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:09.160 protein that is abundant in cancer cells. It's a protein 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.280 that cancer cells use to cut tissue that is surrounding 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.280 the tumor. One of the most important features of cancer 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.560 is that it destroys its environment so that it can grow. 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:21.960 Otherwise it just doesn't grow right. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.319 And so we detect that protein by providing it something 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:31.240 too cut. And when it cuts that substrate that we provide, 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:33.920 that's when light happens. Think about one of those little 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.280 sticks that you use, a glow stick, right that when 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.360 you crack it, it emits light. Well, the same but 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.800 at a molecular level. When you crack this little mini 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.480 glow stick, and the only way to crack it is 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.760 by a protein that is primarily expressed in cancer cells, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.200 it gives you a luminous signal. 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:55.040 So you're injecting a substance into the patients, which you 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.479 know that the cancer will destroy. When it destroys the substance, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.200 it emits this light, which is visible under purple light. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:08.400 Correct well, and where are you on delivering on that promise? 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.280 So we were incredibly fortunate that the FDA approved this 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:18.200 product last year. Hospitals started using it in the first 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.120 quarter of this year, and it's being used now at 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:22.920 several hospitals across the US. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.000 Stanford was the first adopter. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.719 There are three surgeons at Stanford that are essentially doing 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.840 every single cancer surgery that they do using the Loomi 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.240 cell technology. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.080 Breast cancer surgery or beyond breast cancer. 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:36.680 Breast cancer. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.800 At this point, of course, the journey will continue for 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.959 a long time because I'm not going to rest until 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:44.880 we are successful in a varian cancer. 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:45.760 Ovarian cancer. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.720 Unfortunately, in the list of difficult cancers to treat, ovarian 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.679 cancer is kind of at the top of one of 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.960 the hardest ones to treat, right up there next to 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.600 brain cancer and so on. And so right now there's 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:01.480 trials on going on sophageal called recto prostate cancer and 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.000 so on, and eventually we will get two complicated things 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.760 like brain cancer and varian cancer. But to know that 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:13.599 patients are going in big academic cancer centers like Stanford 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.480 and relatively small regional hospitals like Baker in Florida, and 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.360 patients are going in there and they're leaving the surgery 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.120 room and the doctor is saying we got it all. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.360 And when they say we got it all, before they 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:29.000 had a seventy percent certainty that they got it all 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.840 based on our clinical data. Now they have like a 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.040 ninety eight percent. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.120 Certainty that they did in fact get it on. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.040 What did it feel like to watch the technology being 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:39.200 deployed for the first time? 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.600 You know, you can never get over the loss, especially 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.800 the loss of somebody as incredible, as beautiful, as full 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:49.839 of energy and love and life as Monica was. There's 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.760 nothing that will ever substitute for having her around. There's 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.880 nothing that will fill that hole. But to fulfill a 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.360 promise that it's made under those conditions is one of 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.120 the most gratifying things that you can do in life, right, 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.480 because it's not an empty promise. This is not going 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.240 to benefit hurt, It's not going to benefit me. It's 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.040 going to benefit hopefully millions of people. 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.680 Who who get the news that they have cancer and 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.320 that they need to have surgery. That is unique. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.120 And while it doesn't make up for the loss of 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.480 somebody that you love, the fact that you got fifteen 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:29.560 years worth of disappointments and failure and restarts and falling 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.760 down having to get up again, because you have this 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.040 energy that is propelled by the problems that you made. 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.880 I don't think that there's any other motivation that is 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.080 as strong as that. It is that kind of energy 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.120 that's like I can't quit. I don't have the right 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:45.240 to quit ever. 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.360 Zooming out a little bit to the wider field of 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.880 technology and cancer, I mean, you laid it out, I 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:59.199 think very well. Which is better detection allows for earlier intervention? Obviously? 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.120 You know nowadays in the US, one and eight women 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.280 are expected to be diagnosed with breast cancer at some 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.920 point in their lives, but the mortality rate has been 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.240 in steady decline. Where are we on the bigger picture 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.720 of beating cancer? I mean where there was an article 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.120 in the New York And not too long ago about 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.119 how detection is getting better but doesn't necessarily mean better outcomes. 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.479 There's a lot of excitement around you know, AI, personalized drugs. 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.200 You know, taking a step back, what is the state 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.600 of the nation, of the wider field of technology's ability 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:29.880 to kill cancer? 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.160 You're right to take a wider view, right, We're going 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:34.360 to live longer. 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:39.520 And most mechanical things we will be able to fix, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.920 including the heart, which at the end is a mechanical pump. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.320 So cancer is the ultimate frontier if we continue to 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.040 improve our health as a society or be sitting the 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.040 US notwithstanding because that's a problem. But you know, if 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:54.480 you look at the rest of the world, people are 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:59.240 living longer and longer, and cancer is becoming the primary 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.160 cause of death, and so at some point we have 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.240 to address this in a much more efficient manner than 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.320 we are today. We have some wonderful drugs, and I'm 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.320 not against drugs at all. In fact, some cancers there's 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.720 nothing you can do surgery wise, and you have to 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.880 use drugs. So we are making significant advances and eventually 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.040 we will find drugs that are highly specific that are 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.880 going to be able to target cancer cells in ways 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:30.680 that we couldn't imagine ten years ago without the side 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.040 effects that we used to have with raw chemotherapy. But 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.800 I believe and I think most physicians will agree that 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:42.320 surgery will remain the front line way to deal with 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.480 cancer for the simple fact that if you have to 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.360 kill cancer cells, it's better to kill less cells, and 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.600 the more you can get out of the body, the 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.240 less cells you have to kill later on. And if 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.960 you can ensure that you didn't leave any cells in 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.760 the primary tumor site, then you're going to be better off. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.120 And there's no question about that. So my prediction is 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.800 we will see cancer quote unquote end within our lifetimes. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:11.600 That's a big prediction. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:13.880 I think it's going to happen. 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.720 I think our understanding of biology, the biology of cancer 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.560 over the next forty years is going to get us 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.520 to the point where we can address cancer very very 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:26.200 effectively through a combination of surgery and incredibly targeted therapies. 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.280 How big a role do you think lo Miiselle could 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:28.680 play in that. 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.200 I think lou Miisell will become the center of care 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:35.240 for cancer surgery for all cancers. I do believe that 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.680 we do. In the US, we do about a million 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.440 to two million cancer surgeries every single year. That's across 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.040 all cancers. Breast cancer is one of the highest ones, 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.440 with three hundred thousand surgeries a year. I would say 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.320 that this year we're probably going to do a couple 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.120 of thousand surgeries, and then that is going. 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.400 To grow pretty quickly from there. So right now we. 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:04.080 Are in either full use or testing at about a 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.800 dozen hospitals in the US. We expect to be in 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.560 about twenty to thirty hospitals by the end of the year, 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.600 and the projection for the following years to be at. 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.199 About one hundred health centers across the United States. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.359 And if lou Misselle doesn't become the standard of care 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.880 for cancer surgery, why will that be What would have happened, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:23.240 would have. 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.440 Gone wrong, because somebody will come up with a better 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:27.800 solution and that will. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.320 Be a happy day. Technology is only as good as 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.640 technology is good. Right. We all used to use AOL At. 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.639 One point, I still have a Yahue email account, and 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:40.439 I may be one of the only ones left. And 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.359 then technology got better and everybody moved to something else, 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:45.679 and that's entirely fine. 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:50.680 That's what we want. We want to create ever rising bars. 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.760 So that people get over them. We don't create barriers 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.879 so that people can't get over them. We create barriers 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:56.840 so that stronger will. 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:05.080 Prevail after the break. How Andrea is working to improve 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.919 another industry, our food system. 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:19.200 Stay with us. 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.600 I'd have to know a bit more about you and 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.240 what brought you to the field of biotechnology. 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.359 You know, I grew up in Mexico City, not really 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.359 knowing what I wanted to do. 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:31.040 With my life. 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.760 I always thought I wanted to be a doctor. I 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.560 had the opportunity, after finishing college in Mexico to come 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.960 to Boston and become. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.200 A part of M I. T. And Harvard, which. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.520 Opened up an entire new universe of of what could 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.159 be done with biology. Very early on, I got interested 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:54.240 in a very specialized field, which is how proteins, which 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.399 of course are the building blocks of nature, how their 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:03.119 structure relates to their funk. And it opened up a 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.199 brand new universe to me that I was just not 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.840 aware of that. You know, all these little, tiny, microscopic 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.240 machines regulate everything that happens in nature in an incredibly 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.760 powerful way. And so the more I learned about that 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.720 microscopic biological world, the more. 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:20.480 I wanted to know. 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.640 And then, of course, you know, I learned that they 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.199 could be used to cure disease, which is what I 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.960 wanted to do all my life. You know, growing up 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.679 in a lower middle class household, my mom was teacher, 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.520 my dad worked in construction. You know, you're kind of 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.200 wondering what am I going to do with my life, 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.640 And there was always this desire to try to help 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.720 other people, and I really didn't know how, and so 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.800 this universe that opened up before my eyes gave me 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.600 an opportunity to say, if I can figure out some 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.880 of this very unique processes that happen in our bodies 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.480 at a microscopic level, I could help cure disease. I 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.159 could help make a better life for people. And that 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:03.679 was just incredible. 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:09.120 When green Light Biosciences, your other company, was publicly listed, 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.359 you talked about having two missions in life. One was 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.400 quote the ability to provide solutions for healthcare, which we've discussed. 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:21.440 The other was to grow food sustainably and cleanly, which 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:25.280 we haven't discussed yet. This also begins with a personal story. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.959 Yeah, and that personal story is a lot cuter because 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.240 of course nobody died, but it also involves My favorite 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.040 person in the world was my son Alex. And Alex 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.320 had something that you know, I think a lot of 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.600 parents will relate to, which was Alex didn't need a 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:46.159 lot and he was super thin and losing weight, and 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.680 a lot of the things that we would feed him 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.639 would make him sick, and we were just like racking 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.320 our brain trying to figure out what the hell was 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.400 going on. Like one of the only things he would 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.120 eat was bananas. He would eat bananas all day long. 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.680 And I remember my mom being like, let me bananas 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.159 is you know, when have you ever seen a you know, 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.040 a sickly gorilla and only it is bananas. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.600 They don't only eat bananas or whatever. But you know, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.640 it made sense because bananas are protected. 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.760 They have this incredibly strong peel that protects them from 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.600 basically everything that is outside. And so one of the 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.200 things that would make Alex really sick, for example, would 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.879 be strawberries, and we couldn't figure out why. My wife, 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.600 who is not a scientist, eventually figure it out that 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.560 it wasn't the strawberry itself, or the salary or the 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:38.360 carrot or whatever, it was whatever chemical leftovers where on 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.800 that particular food. Chemical synthetic pesticides were the. 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:43.439 Biggest s culprit. 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.280 There were others, like some of the colorings would make 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:51.040 him fairly anxious, but what would make him really sick 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:56.200 would be And we later identified a class of insecticides 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.160 called organo phosphates. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:00.720 Of phosphates. 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.160