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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague Nola is not here today but will be

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Speaker 2: returning shortly.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul Michigan control decant. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Matt off Air, we were joking just a second ago

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Speaker 3: about intros episodes, about intros to the show, and this

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Speaker 3: one I totally ripped off Star Trek just because that

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Speaker 3: beginning monologue of the original Star Trek is so good.

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Speaker 3: Space the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of our

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Speaker 3: odd little podcast. It's continuing mission to explore strange new ideas,

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Speaker 3: to seek out new life and new civilization, to boldly

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Speaker 3: go where no conspiracy realist has gone before, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. We both love space. We both went to

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Speaker 3: Space Camp and we thoroughly enjoyed that. I guess it

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Speaker 3: is propaganda, but not all propaganda is bad.

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Speaker 2: Hey, all right, Well, come on, we learned how the

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Speaker 2: space shuttles work inside and out, baby, come on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we had our little log books, We did our

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Speaker 3: little experiments.

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Speaker 2: You know, dude, Space Camp was the jam. If you

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Speaker 2: don't like Space Camp, get out of here. Yeah, just

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Speaker 2: get out, Just go.

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Speaker 3: Don't say anything, don't write an email, just go somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Uh So, it's nuts because you know, we've talked about

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Speaker 3: this in previous episodes, on things like the militarization of space,

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Speaker 3: things like conspiracy theories about the moon landing. And the

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Speaker 3: truth is that tonight, if you look up to the sky,

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Speaker 3: regardless of the amount of light pollution that is in

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Speaker 3: your area, your neck of the Global Woods, what you're

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Speaker 3: seeing is increasingly a battlefield in the making a possible

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Speaker 3: new dimension of war. You see, Folks, If you tuned

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Speaker 3: into our one of our recent Strange News segments, then

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Speaker 3: you probably have heard that a lot of people, a

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Speaker 3: lot of countries and companies are resurrecting the Cold War

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Speaker 3: space race. As we record this evening, the space race

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Speaker 3: is back on, baby, and there are a lot more

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Speaker 3: players in the game. It's not just us playing Starfield,

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Speaker 3: though Matt I will confess to you that I did.

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Speaker 3: As you know, I work on reward mechanisms. I did

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Speaker 3: start playing Starfield.

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Speaker 2: Well you must have done a lot of hard work

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Speaker 2: to get there, buddy. I can't wait to see your character.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's I think that's very kind of you to

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Speaker 3: say it's not super creative. Of course, he's Max Powers,

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Speaker 3: astronaut with a secret. Oh yeah, but here are the facts, now, Matt,

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Speaker 3: You and I and Paul and Noel and Doc Holiday,

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Speaker 3: we all grew up in the United States, so we

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Speaker 3: were very familiar with the shadow of the space race,

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Speaker 3: which was a very Cold War type thing. And I

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Speaker 3: was looking back on the on the just the timeline,

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Speaker 3: just the broad strokes. It was kind of a one

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Speaker 3: on one grudge match between the United States and the USSR.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, Well those two superpowers, very powerful countries, right,

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Speaker 2: organizations of large swaths of land. They have a bunch

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Speaker 2: of moving parts within them, you know, states like almost

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Speaker 2: like many countries. They're all together in their own little sectors.

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Speaker 2: And after World War Two, when they're victorious and they've

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Speaker 2: got all this war that they've been doing with all

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Speaker 2: of you know, we call them toys, but you know,

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Speaker 2: all this might, military might, that they built up and

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Speaker 2: were victorious. It's like looking at the treasure deep within

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Speaker 2: the cave and both teams are in there and they

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Speaker 2: both see the treasure and they're like, well, which one

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Speaker 2: of us guess the treasure? Is it gonna be you

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Speaker 2: or me? I don't know. Let's build spaceships and then

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Speaker 2: whoever could get to the moon first wins, or rather,

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Speaker 2: whoever can control space as you know, land, air and sea,

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Speaker 2: now space you win.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very well, put man, I love that you're pointing

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Speaker 3: out that race that began the instant World War two ended.

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Speaker 3: The Russians and the Americans were stealing Nazi scientists left

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Speaker 3: and right, and as soon as the world knew about

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Speaker 3: nuclear weapons, both of these countries scrambled like mad to

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Speaker 3: build as many ballistic mi so based nukes as possible,

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Speaker 3: and that research naturally led to the exploration of space.

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Speaker 3: Both countries wanted to be the supreme power in orbit,

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Speaker 3: and they.

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Speaker 2: Ultimately it was rocketry right, absolutely, how to send a

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Speaker 2: nuke far away into enemy territory? Well, what if we

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Speaker 2: just shot it more up?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I shot an arrow in the air, as the

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Speaker 3: old Twilight Zone episode goes, And this idea was sold

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Speaker 3: to each public of that country as or that respective

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Speaker 3: country as a noble, greater good mission, the ultimate destiny

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Speaker 3: of man, manifest destiny in fact in space. But really,

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Speaker 3: you know that when this became a battle of conflicting ideologies,

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Speaker 3: Uncle Sam was no longer just the United States, the

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Speaker 3: USSR was no longer just Soviet Russia. One was the

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Speaker 3: idea of capitalism, the other was the idea of commune.

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Speaker 3: And they created a feedback loop with their dueling research.

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Speaker 3: They were spurrying each other on, egging each other on

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Speaker 3: to go further and further and further. I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: we all know the pivotal moments. One of the biggest

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Speaker 3: ones was the launch of Sputnik, which I did not

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Speaker 3: know this because my Russian is for crap, but sputnik

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Speaker 3: means traveler.

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Speaker 2: Apparently, Oh yeah, that's perfect because ultimately it's a satellite.

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Speaker 2: It's going to travel around through space just above us,

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Speaker 2: just hanging out up there. And the way they got

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Speaker 2: it up there is through that old rocketry stuff, an

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Speaker 2: intercontinental ballistic missile that they shot up in nineteen fifty seven.

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Speaker 2: It was a October fourth, nineteen fifty seven that the

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Speaker 2: USSR launched you know, a ballistic missile and sent the

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Speaker 2: Traveler aka Sputnick up there. And it really was the

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Speaker 2: first satellite that human beings had created and successfully gotten

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Speaker 2: into orbit.

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Speaker 3: And as we record, we're just a few days away

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Speaker 3: from the sixty sixth anniversary of Sputnik's launch when this happened,

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Speaker 3: because you can't hide a satellite, really, when this happened,

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Speaker 3: America was pissed and terrified. Yeah, because to your point

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Speaker 3: about rockets, right and nukes.

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Speaker 2: A rockets, Yes, and it was a really good one

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Speaker 2: to make it all the way up there. And two,

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Speaker 2: there's something up there now that we have no way

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Speaker 2: to access. It's just up in space. What's it doing

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Speaker 2: up there?

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Speaker 3: Man? And how many rockets do the Soviets possess? What

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Speaker 3: if they decided, hey, it's easier to hit DC than

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Speaker 3: it is to hit lower Earth orbit. Yeah, And this

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Speaker 3: means that quote unquote beating the Soviet forces became a

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Speaker 3: number one priority for the United States because the US

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Speaker 3: saw this as an existential threat. Just you can see

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Speaker 3: it in the timeline. Just year after Sputnik launches, the

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Speaker 3: US launches its own satellite, designed of course by Werner

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Speaker 3: von Braun, and then Eisenhower in the same year nineteen

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Speaker 3: fifty eight creates NASA. These are wild times. This is

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Speaker 3: one of those times that the fence contractors love because

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Speaker 3: the pocketbook is open.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh my god. I'm over here just having

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Speaker 2: a moment because I'm realizing my father is only seven

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Speaker 2: years older than Sputnik and just thinking that satellites have

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Speaker 2: only been a thing for sixty six years. Though it

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Speaker 2: feels again like much of our newer technology like has

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Speaker 2: just been around forever because we've built so much of

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Speaker 2: our infrastructure. Our daily lives on the technology that's not

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Speaker 2: old at all. Well, and it also makes you realize

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Speaker 2: that NASA isn't old at all, like the major space

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Speaker 2: corporations that work together with countries have only been doing

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Speaker 2: it for sixty something years. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they've been making a lot of progress too. It's

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Speaker 3: nuts that now, how sci fi is this? Now we

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Speaker 3: can refer to the old Space Race? Yeah, the Cold

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Speaker 3: War thing was the old Race. It was full of glory,

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Speaker 3: conspiracy of plenty, tragedy, heartbreak, innocent people died. The end

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Speaker 3: of the Old Space Race is generally considered to be

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Speaker 3: the US moon landings, and the US was almost not

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Speaker 3: the first of the finish line. There. The Soviet government

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Speaker 3: made four different failed attempts to launch their own lunar

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Speaker 3: craft between like nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy two.

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Speaker 3: There was even an explosion on a launch pad. Ugly stuff,

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Speaker 3: Ugly stuff.

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Speaker 2: Ugly stuff. But there are also some really fun conspiracies

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Speaker 2: rolling around out there about how the Soviet Union was

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Speaker 2: super successful but they projected that they were unsuccessful, and

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Speaker 2: then they built bases already on the dark side of

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Speaker 2: the moon. Oh, you really sink your teeth into that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Can't really prove much of anything about it, really anything

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Speaker 2: at all, but it is super fun to think about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we can't prove it yet. But also I do

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Speaker 3: want to give a very light spoiler, low key shout

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Speaker 3: out to a project, Matt, that you have been working

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Speaker 3: on with our pals Dan Bush and Nick Takowski, called

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Speaker 3: The Passage. I was immensely fortunate to be able to

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Speaker 3: write a little bit for that one, which touches on

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Speaker 3: space races in a very weird way. I think, Oh, wait,

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Speaker 3: which episode did you do Hoover?

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Speaker 2: Oh man, that's awesome. I haven't heard the rough cut yet,

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Speaker 2: but everybody if you're listening, you're going to love this show.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, not just because Ben wrote part of it.

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Speaker 2: It's really good.

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Speaker 3: And that means a lot. Man, Thank you. I can't

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to hear it as well. You guys know,

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Speaker 3: we love creepy story, we love world building in fiction.

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Speaker 3: So stay tuned sometime next year and walked through the

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Speaker 3: passage with us. It's an all star cast. You got

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Speaker 3: a lot of got a lot of firepower on that

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Speaker 3: team met and when you look at the conclusion of

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Speaker 3: the space race, usually you're going to see people say

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Speaker 3: it ended. When Americans landed on the Moon, the US

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Speaker 3: government lost interest in lunar missions. They slowly waned after

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Speaker 3: the early nineteen seventies, and then there was a armistice

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Speaker 3: of sorts when the Apollo Soyuz mission sent three US

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Speaker 3: astronauts into space on an Apollo craft that docked in

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Speaker 3: orbit with a Soyuz vehicle. The commanders of the two craft,

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Speaker 3: one US n one Soviet national, they met, They shook

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Speaker 3: hands in space, and this was the end of the rivalry.

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Speaker 3: It was a new era of cooperation. Awesome, go team.

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Speaker 3: It worked for a second.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I did what a wonderful vision of the future. Right,

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Speaker 2: you can't get much more future than that. Some astronauts

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Speaker 2: shaking hands in space, come on, amazing. But well, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the big problem is it's almost like that happened, that

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Speaker 2: moment happened in nineteen seventy five. Then what happened to

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Speaker 2: everybody's interest in space? Oh? Yeah, really not everybody, because

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Speaker 2: I think there was a there was still a public

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Speaker 2: fascination with space when it comes to our popular television

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Speaker 2: and the films that were being created, to even interest

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Speaker 2: in extraterrestrials. To I mean, popularly, the human mind is

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Speaker 2: all about some space. But governments, it seems, had a

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Speaker 2: real cooling off period. There maybe a refractory period.

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Speaker 3: There we go nice. However, while this public attention kind

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Speaker 3: of decreased over the intervening decades, make no mistake, world powers,

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Speaker 3: both countries and corporations, never stopped planning for space exploration.

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Speaker 3: And the first things they the first things they really

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Speaker 3: thought about in their smoky back rooms were things like

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Speaker 3: command and control of that of near Earth orbit force projection,

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Speaker 3: being able to prevent activity from rival powers, and people

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Speaker 3: just kept launching satellites. You know, like if you've ever

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Speaker 3: driven by a house where people just keep putting little

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Speaker 3: yard gnomes in the front yard and little sculptures and

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Speaker 3: stuff that is earth. That is what Earthlings did.

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Speaker 2: But they aren't doing it publicly anymore. That's the thing

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Speaker 2: that I think I kind of got it wrong when

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Speaker 2: I said they're not interested there, But what I meant

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Speaker 2: was you are. If you're a citizen of any of

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Speaker 2: these countries, you probably don't even notice that anything is

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Speaker 2: happening with the space race. Before it was all about

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Speaker 2: being in the public eye. Any and all maneuvering that's

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Speaker 2: occurring on any side, either side, it's going to be

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Speaker 2: a newspaper article right front page, the Soviets did this

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Speaker 2: and or the Americans did that. And now it's almost

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Speaker 2: like a press release might go out and it would

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Speaker 2: say like several satellites or several things were put into

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Speaker 2: orbit today on behalf of X Corporation or something, and

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Speaker 2: that's it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly what happens, you know. Now the propaganda

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Speaker 3: machine has moved on to focus on other things, but

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Speaker 3: the actual work, both the military work and the pure

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Speaker 3: science continues. There are so many amazing experiments that have

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Speaker 3: been done in space. The while we talked about this previously.

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Speaker 3: While launching missions into outer space can seem like a

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Speaker 3: misuse of re sources, the fact of the matter is

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Speaker 3: thousands of people are employed by these activities, right, hundreds

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Speaker 3: of thousands, and the science learned through space exploration has

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Speaker 3: very real world valuable applications here on.

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Speaker 2: The ground, like preventing a giant space body from impacting

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Speaker 2: the planet and destroying a lot of us or most

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Speaker 2: of us, if not all of us m hm.

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Speaker 3: And then Tang and Velcrow, I'm kind of joking.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I mean it's serious with that. The new

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Speaker 2: We've talked about one of the new things, and we're

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Speaker 2: probably gonna mention it again later in today's episode. But

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Speaker 2: there's brand new news coming out right now about how

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Speaker 2: a mission went up and got Basically, it's not a

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Speaker 2: soil sample, it's a rock and debris sample from a

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Speaker 2: comet or from a space body that is flying through

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Speaker 2: the air, that is that may impact the Earth in

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Speaker 2: like one hundred and fifty years, and this mission might

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Speaker 2: actually help us prevent it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's that everyone on the planet should agree with, right,

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Speaker 3: Because a large catastrophic body from outer space hitting Earth,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to check your zip code. It's not

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Speaker 3: going to check who you voted for. It's just going

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Speaker 3: to say, let's do the dinosaur thing again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, enjoy this forty foot wall of water. Let's see

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Speaker 2: what happens.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And so it should be no surprise that, as

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Speaker 3: of this month, a great website called orbiting now list

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Speaker 3: a total of eight seven hundred and five different active

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Speaker 3: satellites in various Earth orbits. My god, a lot of stuff,

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Speaker 3: A lot of garden gnomes, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: We might be the trashy house in the neighborhood. This

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Speaker 3: number is going to increase over time up to a

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Speaker 3: certain point, and eventually the massive amount of stuff out

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Speaker 3: there is going to be a serious problem. However, tomorrow

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Speaker 3: is not today. Today, there is a new space. It

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Speaker 3: includes multiple countries, billions of dollars, several billionaires, and breathtaking

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Speaker 3: new technology. Sounds super cool. You might be surprised that

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Speaker 3: some folks are very, very concerned about this. They're staying

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Speaker 3: awake at night worried because they're wondering how far a

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Speaker 3: space race can go before it becomes a space war.

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Speaker 2: Space war coming up next on stuff they don't want

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Speaker 2: you to know. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. It's true a space race

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Speaker 3: could become a space war, and very easily. It is frightening.

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Speaker 3: But to explain that, we need to learn a little

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Speaker 3: bit more about this new space race, Matt, you and

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Speaker 3: I spoke recently about the Indian lunar lander that did

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Speaker 3: something no one has done before. The Russian conspiracy theories

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Speaker 3: are true.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, it went to the south pole of the Moon.

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Speaker 2: It's awesome. That's a place where scientists have been wanting

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Speaker 2: to land for a long time, approximately let's say sixty

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Speaker 2: six years. No, I mean, but since we've been fascinated

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Speaker 2: by the Moon and India did it. It's the Indian

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Speaker 2: Space Research Organization. They landed a I think this is

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Speaker 2: how you say it, Chandra over AON three probe. And

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Speaker 2: isn't this the first Moon mission that India has successfully completed?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so, like what a very difficult one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, what a first go My goodness.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Let's also keep in mind that several other countries

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Speaker 3: tried this before. Brilliant people. We're taking top minds in Japan,

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Speaker 3: in Israel and Russia. Also. Russia had around the same time,

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Speaker 3: pretty recently launched the Luna twenty five spacecraft and it

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Speaker 3: crashed to the surface of the Moon just a few

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Speaker 3: days before India landed successfully. This is not a ding

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Speaker 3: on any of those engineers, physicists, or scientists. It is

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Speaker 3: just incredibly difficult to do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. Well and again it's another reason. Well,

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Speaker 2: you tell me, Ben, I think the reason NASA and

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Speaker 2: the United States are headed back to the Moon is

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Speaker 2: because other people are headed back to the Moon as well. Hey,

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Speaker 2: I think it's kind of the same thing that was

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Speaker 2: happening before. It really is just happening now. That's why

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Speaker 2: the Artemis mission is a go.

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Speaker 3: Yes, NASA is preparing the Artemis mission to return to

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Speaker 3: the Moon. It might also be surprised to learn that

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Speaker 3: countries like Saudi Arabia and Luxembourg that's a real dark horse,

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Speaker 3: have also decided they're going to do Moon missions. In short,

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Speaker 3: as you said, mat, a ton of stuff is happening.

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Speaker 3: But this new space race is different in several key ways. First,

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Speaker 3: lower cost, economy of scale, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to love elod Musk, but SpaceX and

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Speaker 3: its reusable rockets are a big factor in this. Also,

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Speaker 3: satellites are getting smaller and smaller every year, which makes

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Speaker 3: them cheaper and cheaper to launch into space.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I got a little lost there in the

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Speaker 2: Artemis mission. Go to NASA dot gov slash Specials slash Artemis.

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Speaker 2: That's a r t e mis to learn more. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 2: It's so cool, dude. There's a whole section in there

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Speaker 2: about the how it's going to make a ton of money.

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Speaker 3: Ah, yes, yeah, because there are higher stakes, but also

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Speaker 3: the technological and jee political giants of the world as

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Speaker 3: it stands today have learned things their predecessors did not know.

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Speaker 3: Water has been found on the Moon rare earth metals

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Speaker 3: or just rare metals, I guess we can call them now.

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Speaker 3: Have any gases and gases? Yeah, we'll get to the

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00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 3: gas toode. You should get gassed up about that, folks.

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Speaker 3: The Nation of China and the Nation of the US

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Speaker 3: have both also demonstrated their ability to destroy satellites with

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Speaker 3: missiles launched from Earth. And look, there are more players

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Speaker 3: in the game. That's another key difference. Right now, the

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Speaker 3: big three are the US, China, and Russia, but more

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Speaker 3: than eighty different countries have a presence in space. You

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Speaker 3: might be surprised to learn the United Arab Immirates sent

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Speaker 3: to probe to Mars. We were surprised to learn that.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure, absolutely. And I think people often overlooked that

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Speaker 2: Israel did. They planned a Moon mission. It didn't go

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Speaker 2: the way they wanted, it crashed on the Moon, but

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Speaker 2: they still did it. And there are countries that you

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Speaker 2: don't think about every day that want they want to

348
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Speaker 2: have a stake in this game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're not doing it just for the soft

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Speaker 3: power of hearts and minds, no, that, Let's be very

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Speaker 3: clear about that. You know. Also, private companies are a

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Speaker 3: huge deal in this now, and we're not talking about

353
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Speaker 3: your you know, mom and pop defense contractors. Here in

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Speaker 3: the West. Government funding is still the biggest source of

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Speaker 3: revenue overall, but it's occurring in step with investment from

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Speaker 3: private enterprise, and that piece of the puzzle, that piece

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Speaker 3: of the puzzle is growing at a rapid rate. Like

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Speaker 3: I think it was a decade ago in the US,

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Speaker 3: the private sector was spending overall about a billion dollars

360
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Speaker 3: on R and D for space exploration. Now that number,

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Speaker 3: just ten years later is between five and six billion

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Speaker 3: dollars for profit companies don't do stuff for the warm

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Speaker 3: and fuzzies. They have quarterly p fit expectations, they have

364
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Speaker 3: five year plans. They're doing this as an investment, and

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00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 3: that's where that's where you start having to, you know,

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Speaker 3: walk through the calculations yourself. Right, these private entities are

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Speaker 3: working with all of the big state run space works,

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Speaker 3: and the risk are incredibly high. You know, it is

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Speaker 3: terrifyingly easy to crash a very expensive lander on the

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Speaker 3: Moon and never get it back. Yeah, profits though, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, and so much data.

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Speaker 2: My goodness, Well, I guess let's get to the gas

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Speaker 2: bend helium three. This is an important thing. This is

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Speaker 2: something is something the world needs, and not just for

375
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Speaker 2: party balloons. It's up there, it's on the moon, and

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Speaker 2: if you could mine that stuff, you know, well, if

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Speaker 2: you could capture it, let's say, really well and actually

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Speaker 2: get it back to Earth for our purposes. Whoo, you're

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Speaker 2: going to be in the monday.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll why possibly be beyond money at a certain point,

381
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Speaker 3: because we have to realize there's a hidden hand to

382
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Speaker 3: all this noble talk about humanity reaching the stars. The

383
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: Cold War space race had different goals. It was all

384
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Speaker 3: about getting the public in both of those countries to

385
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:28,479
Speaker 3: agree to this high fluting idea of exploring for the

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00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 3: betterment of humanity, because if they said we're spending billions

387
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: to invent new ways to blow stuff up, it wouldn't

388
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Speaker 3: have been as popular.

389
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Speaker 2: It's defense spending by way of inspiration in propaganda, and.

390
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Speaker 3: Now there's a little bit more transparency about it because

391
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Speaker 3: it's tougher to keep these things secret. You are absolutely right.

392
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Speaker 3: The helium three, it's nuts. On Earth, there's only about

393
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Speaker 3: I think it's point zero zero zero one percent of

394
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 3: helium on this planet is helium three. But on the

395
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Speaker 3: Moon there might be a million tons plus of this stuff.

396
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Speaker 3: And helium three is like the holy Grail of nuclear

397
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Speaker 3: fusion because it can produce higher amounts of energy than

398
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Speaker 3: nuclear fission, and it's also way less radioactive. So finding

399
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 3: these deposits, if you could somehow get a hold of

400
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 3: this stuff right and either use it in manufacturing on

401
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: the Moon or ship it back to Earth, which is

402
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 3: pretty ambitious, then you are officially king of the hill.

403
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Speaker 2: Oh man, I got yes. Absolutely. I have to give

404
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: you just a quick example from my minecraft life with

405
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: my son, so we will often build So we'll play together, right,

406
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: two players. One player is in survival. They're at the

407
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: whims of the game itself, the enemies, the all all

408
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 2: the things you got to deal with. You got to

409
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: eat food, and you got to survive. Right. The other

410
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 2: player is in creative and will create a scenario for

411
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Speaker 2: the other player. So we go back and forth, right,

412
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Speaker 2: and in that if I'm the one in the creative seat,

413
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: I will put little I will put little pockets of

414
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: resources for him to discover and find that he can

415
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 2: use on his survival journey. Right, he does the same

416
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Speaker 2: thing for me.

417
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Speaker 3: Cool.

418
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Speaker 2: I'm imagining somebody places the moon where it is chock

419
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Speaker 2: full of rare earth minerals that you need to build

420
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: the technology, chock full of helium three that you need

421
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 2: to run fusion energy for all the brand new tech

422
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: that you're going to build from all the rare earth

423
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Speaker 2: minerals you find. It's like somebody, somebody gave us a

424
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Speaker 2: little like a I don't know, it's almost like a

425
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 2: stepping stone to the stars. I'm just I'm kidding. I

426
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: don't think somebody, a creator actually did that, and I

427
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 2: don't have That's not my opinion, but that's an interesting thought,

428
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 2: isn't it.

429
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Speaker 3: That is a fascinating thought. I'm my mind's go in

430
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 3: a million different directions on that one. Yeah, I mean,

431
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: this is what fiction has always dreamt of, right, This

432
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Speaker 3: is the end goal of humanity establishing outpost beyond the

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00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 3: bounds of Earth. And if you can make a little

434
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: money on the way, you got way more people interested immediately.

435
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: There's also evidence of metal oxides in some of the

436
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: larger craters of the Moon. Experts currently believe the Moon

437
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 3: has reserves of silicon, titanium, aluminum all the hits, and

438
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 3: there was a line that stood out to us from

439
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 3: the chief scientist in China's lunar exploration O Yang Jiuan,

440
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 3: says that harvesting helium three could quote solve humanity's energy

441
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: demand for around ten thousand years. So if everyone can cooperate,

442
00:27:58,800 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: things will be pretty cool.

443
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 2: Telling you, man, it's a little convenient that it's just

444
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: floating around above us and we've all been looking at

445
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 2: it for thousands and thousands of years trying to get there.

446
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 3: I love that idea, I always, I always love in fiction.

447
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 3: I love the idea of some ancient force that is

448
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: extraterrestrial or whatever, and you never directly meet it, but

449
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: you find little things it's left for you, you know what

450
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 3: I mean, A wormhole, a warp inch and with a

451
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: ton of helium three.

452
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the in the the timeframe that they're operating

453
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: on seems impossible to us, but it's just because it's

454
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: all it's almost like setting something in motion that eventually

455
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: becomes what you want it to be.

456
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: That's weird over a large time horizon. Yeah, Yeah, it's

457
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: nuts because they're also you know, the idea of extraterrestrials

458
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: or greater purpose aside, there are very few world precedents

459
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: for this situation, and this is a situation that affects

460
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: all of humanity. You could say, you could think about

461
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: the age of sale, right, maritime exploration, you can say, yes, sail.

462
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: You could also think about the old space race. But

463
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: even though both of those situations have commonalities, those commonalities

464
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: are dwarfed by new, unknown variables that leads us to serious,

465
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: serious problems. Okay, like you said, Matt, all of this

466
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: technology is relatively new in the grand scheme of things

467
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: so far as we know, and that means legislation is

468
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: lagging behind. Humanity has as the Royal Museum's Greenwich put it,

469
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 3: humanity has quote failed to establish so far a set

470
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 3: of universally agreed upon rules to regulate this competition aka

471
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 3: space race. Without laws governing human activity in space, the

472
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: stage is set for disagreements on wait for it, an

473
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: astronomical level. Golf clap Royal Museums.

474
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: Just man, I can barely contain my golf clap bit,

475
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: same bro.

476
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: And you know, of course we talked about this in

477
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: the past. There are treaties meant to prevent militarization and

478
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: war in space. The problem is they have not really

479
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: ever been put to the test. And it's totally fine

480
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 3: for everybody to sign a piece of paper that says, yeah,

481
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: we're gonna like obey these cute little rules until the

482
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 3: rubber hits the cosmic road, you know what I mean?

483
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I want to give you just a little

484
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: insight into my ignorance. I didn't know there was a

485
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: thing called the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs.

486
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: Cool job, right, What how often do you have to

487
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: work like a once a week? Now, I'm just joking.

488
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: There's all kinds of stuff in space, and the.

489
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: Outer Space Treaty is written with the best information they

490
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: had at hand. It is, you know, like any other

491
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 3: UN declaration. It's got some problems, right, and you can

492
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 3: criticize any number of things about this agreement. However, we

493
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: all have to admit it was made in good faith

494
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: and the idea was out of the billions of people

495
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 3: on the planet. If we can convince everyone to work

496
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: together just a little bit, then we might be able

497
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 3: to save this species.

498
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: That's the idea, and that treaty has been in effect

499
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: since before Spudnik, when when countries were just testing launching

500
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: people into orbit. Right, I think back to Uri Gagaron

501
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: and some of the original activities that man was kind

502
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: of playing around with up in just low Earth orbit.

503
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: We've all kind of come together and decided it's a

504
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: good idea to not have war up there and you know,

505
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: and not let it be just another theater of war.

506
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: Right.

507
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the new big thing to the point where

508
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: as we'll see, we're getting to the scary part here, folks.

509
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: It's to the point where one nation or corporation's dominance

510
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: over those previously established theaters may be rendered an irrelevant

511
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 3: if they do not also have capabilities in space. We

512
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: talked about this again in the past the part. One

513
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 3: of the new goals is to be first to the

514
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: field on the moon, not counting landing on the moon

515
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: and taking a cool picture or putting down your flag

516
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: or whatever, landing on the moon and staying there, establishing

517
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: a permanent lunar base, because that means you get to

518
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: set the rules for everybody else who follows. It's like,

519
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 3: you know, it's like, let's say you're playing a pickup

520
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 3: basketball game, or you're playing soccer or something. These forces

521
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 3: want to be the person who shows up early because

522
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: if they show up early, they can say, we're not

523
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: playing soccer, we're not playing basketball, We're playing a new game.

524
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 3: I invented the rules.

525
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: And I've got rail guns set up all around my base,

526
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: so if you try and do anything, I'm gonna take

527
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: out your little wonky spaceship.

528
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 3: Yes, you set the parameters. This is key because a

529
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 3: dominant power with lunar control can hamstring other nations or companies.

530
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: They can deny access to lunar resources. They also are

531
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 3: in pole position too, as he said, snipe down anything

532
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 3: they don't like. This is gonna lead to massive tensions.

533
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: It's already on the way. I mean could we even

534
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 3: call these geopolitical tensions at this point? Are they astro political? Now?

535
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: I don't know the right word.

536
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, They're GPS geopolitical Shenanigans.

537
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 3: Oh beautiful, Yes, yes, and whatever we want to call it.

538
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 3: The first tensions are going to arise around satellites. Defending satellites,

539
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: tracking satellites, attacking them. Part of most modern countries' early

540
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: warning systems. Virtually all modern countries early warning systems are satellites.

541
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 3: Satellites help you know if someone is launching a nuke,

542
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: hopefully in enough time for you to defend yourself or

543
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: to at the very least react accordingly. And if any

544
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 3: nation thinks their satellites are being threatened, their chances, their

545
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 3: likelihood of taking a preemptive action increase dangerously so. And

546
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: that's because, like you said, GPS, without our little Kohi

547
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: boxes in the sky sending out those ones and zeros,

548
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 3: international comm networks will not work. Emergency services go could

549
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 3: put Think about the last time, folks, that you drove

550
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 3: any distance and used a physical map.

551
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 2: This is yeah, unless you absolutely had to, right because

552
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: you didn't have signal or something.

553
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, ship, big ships just drift off course and they're

554
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: forced to resort to old school navigation, astro labs and whatnot.

555
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 3: A country without satellite access is thoroughly disadvantaged in any

556
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 3: field of war, and that's the big concern. Will the

557
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 3: new space race become a war? I suggest we pause

558
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: for a word from our sponsors so we can further

559
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: regale Paul Mission Control with stories about space Camp.

560
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: We teased the war the last break, we promise it's comment.

561
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, this time for real. We have returned here. The

562
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 3: problems this idea of a space war is a multi

563
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: billion dollar question. It should frighten you a little bit

564
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 3: because there's nothing really we can do as individuals to

565
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 3: prevent the outbreak of this war. We're gonna see why.

566
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: But we're getting some really bad signals from different government

567
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 3: space agencies. NASA in particular is super heat it up

568
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: about China. It's like they it's like they used to

569
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 3: date or something and the relationship didn't end.

570
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, we've got a quote here from I guess

571
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: a rep from NASA who had this to say. Quote,

572
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: China could potentially lay claim to prime resource areas on

573
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: the Moon under the guise of research, potentially barring other countries'

574
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: access and potentially endangering United States satellites. Here just here's

575
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 2: my response to that the Senates. It came right after

576
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: that is uh, because that's definitely what we're planning to do.

577
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: And don't mean that NASA. I just mean I feel

578
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 2: like whoever gets there first, as we said just before

579
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: this break, is gonna kind of get to dictate some

580
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 2: of that stuff, no matter what the treaties say.

581
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's a good point. Man. We're not

582
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: We're not being too far off the mark when we

583
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: say that multiple countries are thinking the same thing, and

584
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 3: you can hide a lot under the umbrella of research.

585
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 3: Just look at the search history on our work computers.

586
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's just like I'm not gonna run rough

587
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: shot over the moon if you don't right, Yeah, no, huh,

588
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do that. Sorry. I was looking very

589
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: intensely at the camera. That to me is what it

590
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: feels like the main power are doing.

591
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: Bro, I am calm you call.

592
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to do anything. As long

593
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: as you don't, I'm not going to do anything. Long

594
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: and then everybody quietly, you know, moves while still staring

595
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: at each other exactly.

596
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's troubling stuff because you know, for a

597
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 3: long time, one really beautiful thing about space exploration is

598
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 3: that scientists, tychokonats, cosmonauts, astronauts, they were all above the

599
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 3: fray of earthly disagreements, sometimes literally, and they were continuing

600
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 3: to collaborate despite whatever territorial tensions might exist. But to

601
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 3: certain factions of the United States government and scientific establishments,

602
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: China is the new adversary. It is the new USSR.

603
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 3: That is great for defense funding, but it's not so

604
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: great for the people who happen to be alive on Earth.

605
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: I don't know.

606
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: We also learned that back in the nineteen nineties and

607
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: Western authorities accused China of stealing space technology, and as

608
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: a result, Uncle Sam passed something called the Wolf Amendment

609
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 3: in twenty eleven. This is like big post breakup energy.

610
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 3: The legislation prevents NASA from ever collaborating with China specifically,

611
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: and there aren't a lot of people in the game

612
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 3: at that point, So who else can China work with?

613
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: If you guessed Russia, congratulations.

614
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, Ben. I don't know much about the

615
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: Wolf Amendment at all. It really is what was allegedly

616
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: stolen or what was the big problem here?

617
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: The big problem was technical information that American satellite manufacturers

618
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 3: corporations may have given up to China. Got it, so

619
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: better know how regarding the launch of a satellite, the

620
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: maintenance of it, and one of the very big concerns again,

621
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 3: remember this stuff happens together. One of the big concerns

622
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 3: is that knowing how to better launch a satellite also

623
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 3: gives you insight on how to better launch missiles.

624
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: Got it, Okay, So it's.

625
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 3: Kind of like nuclear research. You know, the same process

626
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 3: you use to make nuclear power is similar to the

627
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 3: process you would make you would use to make a

628
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 3: nuclear bomb. So it's not an unreasonable concern. It's just

629
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: it just leads to a rough situation, folks, because China

630
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: and Russia working together is, for the record, not NASA's

631
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 3: dream collaboration. It's that can be their favorite mixtape. Just

632
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 3: earlier this year, Bill Nelson, NASA administrator, put these concerns

633
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 3: in pretty blunt terms. He said, quote, it is a

634
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 3: fact we're in a space race, and it is not

635
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: beyond the realm of possibility that they, meaning China, say

636
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 3: keep out, we're here. This is our territory. Nelson goes

637
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 3: on to note that there he sees an earthly president

638
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 3: in China's claims around the South China Sea. Right, it's

639
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 3: considered international water by everybody else except for China.

640
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they defend it with military might, or at

641
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: least the threat of military might consistently. So I wonder

642
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 2: if I don't know, I actually see that, I really

643
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: do see that. I wonder what the equivalent argument would

644
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: be if you were, let's say, in China and then

645
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: looking at the United States in the same way.

646
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 3: You would probably if off the top of my head,

647
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 3: you might say manifest destiny, like think of all the

648
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: think of all the agreements that the United States made

649
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: with indigenous communities and then later broke at their convenience.

650
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, and.

651
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 3: You know too, again to be objective and fair, what

652
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 3: would stop the United States from doing something very similar

653
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 3: on the Moon? You know, I don't know if it's

654
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 3: convenient to call one side good and one side bad,

655
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 3: but they have similar, at times mutually exclusive goals. So

656
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: it really depends on where you standing.

657
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, get the helium three and make the coolest, scariest

658
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 2: space lasers you can imagine.

659
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 3: M and You can find all sorts of similar statements

660
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 3: in Western media, but China itself finds these accusations baseless

661
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 3: and biased and unfair. U Pingyu again, partner our pronunciation.

662
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 3: Here is the spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington, DC,

663
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 3: or one of the spokespeople and set the following quote.

664
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: Outer space is not a wrestling ground. China always advocates

665
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: the peaceful use of outer space, and China is a

666
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 3: signatory to the Outer Space Treaty. But the problem is,

667
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 3: the thing that people aren't maybe gaming out far enough

668
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: in the public sphere is that this is bigger than

669
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,479
Speaker 3: earthly nations. Tensions are always going to grow between any

670
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 3: permanent lunar population and their bosses back on the mud ball,

671
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 3: because it doesn't matter if they're countries or corporations, they

672
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 3: will be so far away that they are going to

673
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 3: want independence. And it wouldn't be surprising, honestly, if in

674
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: the back rooms of whatever a country's equivalent of the

675
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 3: RAND organization is, it wouldn't be surprising if they're already

676
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 3: planning a way to ensure continued dependence, like how the

677
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 3: United Kingdom attempted to control American colonists with mercantilism.

678
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, your way over there, But you are still

679
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 2: beholden to me, and you cannot make your own decisions.

680
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: You might do all that you do for the king,

681
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: and you.

682
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 3: Can only buy or sell certain things to us. It

683
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 3: can only be sold to us, and we are the

684
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 3: sole provider of the following mission critical resources.

685
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 2: The lifeline. Right, how do you actually get supplies on

686
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: the moon? Well, you can only get them from us.

687
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: These are the only ones that are certified for use

688
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 2: in our lunar facilities.

689
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 3: And the problem is, if we again look at our

690
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 3: the closest thing we have to precedent here. The problem

691
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 3: is that both in the age of sale or maritime

692
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 3: exploration and the age of colonialism, there was one continual

693
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 3: pattern that civilization saw over and over that attempt to

694
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 3: control people doesn't work forever. The history of human exploration

695
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: is inherently a history of mutiny and rebellion. So why

696
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 3: would the age of lunar expansion be any different?

697
00:44:59,400 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

698
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: Man, Like the do you want lunar colonists to be

699
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 3: self reliant? They will inevitably become their own nation. That's

700
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 3: just what would happen, I think.

701
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, there's gonna be a breakaway country on the Moon. Whoa,

702
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 2: it's gonna happen at some point.

703
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 3: There are a bunch of if thens to get through, right, Like,

704
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: first you have to have the base working.

705
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to.

706
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 3: One of the I think one of the big problems

707
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 3: will be reproduction, honestly developed, because a human embryo or

708
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: fetus developing in lunar gravity is going to have a

709
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 3: very different experience to you know, human developing the old

710
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 3: fashioned way on Earth.

711
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: Oh sure, We're gonna have to find a way to

712
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 2: spin the Moon effectively enough to where it has this

713
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: is triptal force. No wait, no, that's not the right

714
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: term for it. If it's that's moving out And I

715
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 2: don't know what the force would be to keep people

716
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: on the Moon. Probably just a type of gravity, but

717
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: that wouldn't go great for you know, the whole relationship

718
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: with the Earth and the Moon. Wait a second, Oh right, no,

719
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: atmosphere gonna be locked in these things. I'm thinking back

720
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: to our conversation with Marshall brain. He made it seem like,

721
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 2: oh no, it's definitely gonna happen on Mars, Like we're

722
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 2: going to Mars it's going to happen, and this is

723
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: what it's going to be like, and it felt so inspiring.

724
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: For some reason, it's even harder for me to imagine

725
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: on the Moon. I don't know why.

726
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 3: I guess because we've heard so much about it that

727
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 3: we we are we like the rest of the world,

728
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: already have a bunch of established scenarios in our heads, right, So, yeah,

729
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 3: the moon is kind of old beings in the world

730
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: of science fiction. And you know, I remember talking to

731
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: people learning about this stuff and one of the questions

732
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: they have is, well, why aren't we on the moon yet?

733
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: It's one of the one of the biggest, one of

734
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 3: the biggest points raised when you talk about lunar conspiracy

735
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 3: theories is why did the US go all the way

736
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 3: out there, put some people on it, bring them back,

737
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: and just not do anything else.

738
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: You know what I always get confused about. It's just

739
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 2: because I didn't get far enough in my studies of physics.

740
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 2: But the idea that you have to take a ship out,

741
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: lock it in orbit with the Moon, and then send

742
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: down a smaller fraction of that spaceship as a separate

743
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: spaceship to land, and then shoot that back up to

744
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: get off of the Moon. That was always weird to me.

745
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: It felt like, why don't you build something they can

746
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: do both. But then you realize, like impact with the

747
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 2: Moon with a giant, huge, massive vessel, or even an

748
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 2: attempted landing, probably the physics probably don't work out. I'm

749
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: just not smart enough to understand all of that, or

750
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 2: I don't know the formulas. But it feels like in

751
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 2: the future, if you've got something that can take off

752
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: from Earth land like literally itself, land on the Moon,

753
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: and then vice versa, then we're talking.

754
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 3: Then we're talking agreed, and that is a game changer.

755
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 3: The problem is that these these very optimistic scenarios all

756
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 3: rely on one idea, and that idea is that any

757
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 3: nation or corporation will set aside its beefs and its

758
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: conflicts to make sure everything else survives in space. Because

759
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 3: the truth of the matter is this, should any power

760
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 3: conspire to wage war in space, things will escalate super quickly.

761
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 3: War in space will inevitably destroy most, if not all, satellites.

762
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 3: Here's the way I was thinking about it, Like, so,

763
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 3: all right, picture any fantasy or horror story with the undead.

764
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 3: One of the problems with fighting the undead is that

765
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 3: every time one of your people is killed by a zombie,

766
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 3: it reanimates and it starts working for the other side.

767
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 3: In this situation, if one person or one force excuse me,

768
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 3: blows up a satellite shoots it with a bullet, I

769
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 3: guess for the sake of argument, then that satellite is

770
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 3: like a zombie. It becomes a source of new bullets

771
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 3: and they're just flying around. You can try to predict them,

772
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 3: but you probably won't be able to get all of

773
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 3: your stuff out of the way. So imagine a gun

774
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 3: that turns the people you shoot into guns of their own.

775
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 2: Whoa yeah, and then good luck launching anything out of

776
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 2: that debris field.

777
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, terrible, terrible, And all it will take,

778
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 3: it's such a razor's edge. All it will take is

779
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 3: one side choosing to target satellites. To date, both China

780
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 3: and the US have proven they can shoot down satellites.

781
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 3: They shot down their own. Because the shoot down another

782
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 3: entity satellite is you know, tantamount to a war.

783
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: Decoration frowned upon it.

784
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 3: It's not a good look, you know. And so if

785
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: one side decided we're going to start targeting satellites, other

786
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 3: players in the game will be forced to respond with

787
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: similar tactics, and many satellites can be weaponized to some degree,

788
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 3: even if it's just turning them into dumb kinetic impact agents.

789
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 3: And you raise one of the most dangerous points there, man,

790
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 3: Earth's orbital environment would become useless and impassable, and this

791
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 3: would show absolute chaos on the ground. You don't care

792
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 3: about space too bad, because what happens in space affects

793
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 3: all of what happens on the planet. We're talking a

794
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 3: situation where at the worst, civilization is pushed back decades

795
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 3: in terms of innovation. You know, it's it's like a

796
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 3: it's like we're being pushed down the stairs.

797
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 2: Oh of time, of time, time.

798
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 3: Time, And you know, this means we might be looking

799
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 3: at an era of mutually assured destruction. Either way, humanity

800
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 3: is definitely at a dangerous crossroads. It just seems so

801
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 3: classic human to get to the edge of a real

802
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 3: space age and then totter backwards into into the dark ages.

803
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

804
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 2: When don't you talk about space nukes yet? No, no, no,

805
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 2: that's all the mad together. Mm hmm.

806
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the question, what would you do?

807
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 3: And folks, we don't know the answer. We'd love to

808
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 3: hear your thoughts, fellow conspiracy realists. What would you do

809
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 3: if you were in a position of power, would you

810
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 3: be able to set aside earthly squabbles for the greater

811
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 3: good of human expansion into the stars, or would you

812
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 3: make the call to burn it all down and rule

813
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: over whatever wreckage remains?

814
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think? Go ahead right to us.

815
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 2: Find us on social media. We're all over the place.

816
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 2: Conspiracy stuff on YouTube. Also, conspiracy stuff on x slash,

817
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: the old Twitter machine. What's the other thing that we're

818
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 2: conspiracy stuff on? Benas Facebook?

819
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 3: Facebook, here's where it gets crazy, our Facebook page. Drop

820
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: by and just soaking the memes. And if you don't

821
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 3: sip the social meds. If you're not a meme enthusiast,

822
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: but you have a story to tell, never fear. You

823
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 3: can contact us directly on our telephone line. Say it together.

824
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 3: Play along at home one eight three three STDWYTK. You'll

825
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 3: hear a voice and then a beep. That beep is

826
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 3: like the gun that fires at the beginning of a race.

827
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 3: You got three minutes. Those three minutes are yours. Tell

828
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 3: us what's on your mind? Give yourself a cool nickname.

829
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 3: Let us know if we can use your name and

830
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 3: or message on the air. Most importantly, don't censor yourself.

831
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 3: If you have a story that needs more than three minutes,

832
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 3: if you have additional photos or sources that you would

833
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 3: like to share with us, take us to the edge

834
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 3: of the rabbit hole. We will do the rest. We

835
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 3: read every single email we get. All you have to

836
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,879
Speaker 3: do is drop us a line at our good old

837
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: fashioned address where.

838
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 2: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they don't

839
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: want you to know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

840
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

841
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,640
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